Episode 01: Blowing up Greedo

Hello, and welcome to Cambridge Ambrashawn a new podcast all about two guys obsessions, passions and hobbies. And those two guys are me Mark Bagley, the host of Wake Up Heavy, and me Ronald Zurgie and the creator of content on the Skelevator channel on YouTube. Today is the first episode, so we'll go through introducing ourselves individually and also how we know each other, and then we will hit some childhood obsessions of ours. Ronnie, give us your history. Yeah, I should have introduced myself as Ronnie, because really that's how we talked to each other.

That's what I call you. Apparently everybody else calls you Ronald. Well, those people aren't important today. That mag Sorry. That made me think of knowing people growing up who had names and or nicknames, like you know Andy Davey, Yeah, and he can kind of go as either Andrew or Andy.

We had another friend in high school who was always Andrew. Like I couldn't see calling him Andy, and I asked him, I think once later on after high school, I'm like, does anybody call you Andy? And He's like nope, And I'm like okay, So I was writing, I won't call you Marquie Poo, which I call before. Yeah, that's that's fine. So yeah, I'm Ronnie zurigean Ronald Zurygian or Sclevator, depending on where you know me from.

I have a YouTube channel where that I started right before the pandemic called Sclevator, and our daughters convinced me to start it because I was making these dioramas of these models of playsets that were based on Masters of the Universe playsets, and then it quickly evolved into like a toy review channel. There's also a talk show on there that I have with my pal Oz and my other pal Bobby called Toy Frenzy, and we talk about primarily Masters of the Universe stuff over there. Mark and I have known each other for a long time, so he knows the whole history, but to keep it as brief as possible. I've got a master's degree in creative writing, so I write. I write poems, and Mark and I bonded over Hookus years ago.

I make art. I'm a painter of my bachelor's degree in fine art, and so I have the background in visual art as well. I have lived off been on in Fresno and rural areas surrounding Fresno, and so I have a little bit of that in my background as well. I grew up in the mountains and I grew up in the city. I have those perspectives behind me, the wife and kids.

We live here in Fowler, which is a small town in the Central Valley, so I get to see Mark every once in a while, which is cool. We're both obsessive people, so we often bond on these things, and that's why we're here today. I don't know how much I get into this on Wickape Heavy, which is my other podcasts that I started, and I believe the summer of twenty eighteen. Wickape Heavy recollections of horror. So it's mainly about horror movies, and it started as an exploration on horror movies that affected me as a kid, so stuff from around this time that will be getting into at least on these first couple episodes of Cambridge and with Sean, and then later and then it's evolved into newer movies that have hit me or movies that I never saw when I was a kid and have seen since and we're blown away by.

We do occasionally venture out beyond horror movies and so I think on Map too, about close to one hundred and thirty episodes of that. I guest host on some other movie podcasts like the Projection Booth podcast and the Culture Cast, all of which, including this show, are part of the Weird and Away media podcast network. Coming up will be the guest host of a limited series on the short lived TV show Police Squad and the Naked Gun series, as well as we're going to kick that whole thing off with an episode on Airplane that'll probably be coming out around the same time as this. If you listen to Wake Up Heavy and are coming over this, you may have heard a little bit of this information before, but I don't get too terribly personal on there.

I was born in Fresno, California, way back in nineteen sixty nine, so I am a gen xer. Have lived here all of my life except for four brief months in nineteen ninety when I lived in London. That was for school though, so I don't really count it too seriously, but it was a very influential time live here with my wife and daughter. Again, if you listen to Wake Up Heavy, you're familiar with her because she guests quite a bit on my show. I went to Easterby Elementary K through fifth grade, and then Air Elementary, one of the magnet schools here opened up in nineteen eighty and I did sixth grade there and then went on to go to private school in junior high all the way through.

Went to Fresno State like Ronnie did. Graduated from there in nineteen ninety two. Oh jeez, that's that's thirty years ago. That was when I was starting on high school. Yeah, we've got a bit of an age gap that.

Yeah, that's never stopped marking with from bonding over things. I think half a generation wise between us. Yeah, we hit on a lot of things, and then there's things that obviously were big when you were younger, like Masters of the Universe that I completely missed. Oh and you kind of mentioned how we know each other. We met at one of the cafes here in the mid nineties, I guess.

Yeah. I think that was like ninety three or four, And I know it was. Wasn't I still in high school or was it? I don't know, maybe it was ninety five. I think you were maybe getting ready to graduate, and I think I think I was at Normandy Village, So that would have been ninety Yeah, ninety three or ninety four, so it was summer.

Yeah, one of us was reading the Last Night of the Earth poems. I can't really said it was you. I thought it was me because it had come out not too long before then. Yeah. I have my copy right here and it has a coffee stain on it, So I think I just assume it was me one of us, because neither one of us can quite remember said hey, you like Bukowski or something like that.

Yeah, and you and I are pretty deep into Bukowski at the time. At the time, yeah, very much. So what you can hear all about on my episode on birthly Oh, which is really a great episode. Mark. I think that has turned out really great.

Thank you. It's hard to look back on Bukowski, you know, with rose colored glasses, especially today, it's it's difficult to admit that you appreciate that kind of stuff in today's sort of situation. That really we get into that a little bit. I think you all sort of addressed it in an appropriate way, which is like, well, we've got to appreciate it for what it is, but also be aware of what it represents and what he kind of represents and hopefully we don't get into too much problematic stuff with the things. And I was possible to pull back the layers on any of this stuff and find so that it's not so pleased yet there's so many layers.

So what is the first thing that you wanted to talk about? I'll start with one of the big obsessions of mine as a kid, and it allows me to talk a little bit about my childhood a little bit more, which was you know, and you mentioned earlier you said, you know, don't you don't really bring in your personal life experiences and wake up heavy and I don't really do that on the Sclevator channel. I incorporate some of my real life stuff in there, but we don't really get it. That's not really a venue for talking about who I am. So Star Wars is a great way for me to sort of begin this conversation as and also explains how and why I get obsessed with things, and I think Star Wars is sort of the beginning of that for me.

I grew up in two different situations. My dad and my stepmother lived in Fresno and my mom and my stepfather live up in the mountains. We had a Christmas Tree farm up there, and I had two older stepbrothers. My first experience with Star Wars action figures was they were visiting and we went out to the end of the driveway. It was a pretty big plot of land and we didn't have a lot, but the few Star Wars figures that those guys had we took out there, and I remember them tying a firecracker to Grido and blowing him up.

That pains me. He's one of my own time favorites. Oh man, me too. He is probably my favorite Star Wars action year besides I G eighty eight. We'll get into that.

Rito was my first love, and I don't know it's because of that or not, but I never actually I think partly is that after watching him get exploded, I never actually got one for myself. I missed the whole first Star Wars movie run of action figures because I was too young, but those guys did. They were on board with that, so I didn't really get to receive Star Wars toys as gifts until Empire strikes back. And maybe that's probably why they were okay with blowing up figures, because by then they were kind of starting to feel a few years old. It really started for me with the Empire strikes Back the snow planet of Hoth.

I would occasionally get snow up there where I lived. It was just the perfect scenario for playing with figures. I spent This is probably giving way too much information, but I spent a lot of time alone, like in the woods essentially, you know, with who knows what was like, you know, underneath the rocks, around the rattlesnakes and what have you. I spent a lot of time just sort of like sitting in shallow creeks and climbing granite rocks and playing with the few Empire strikes Back action figures that I had received as gifts. I feel like for me, gifts were a way of keeping me busy during those years.

So I would take those figures out and play with them, and you know, it was really about to shorten the story a little bit. It was about the Bounty Hunters. It was about Ig eighty eight, Boba Fett, four Long Zuckists, and Dengar, and they were my prize possessions as a kid. I love playing with them. I didn't get vehicles or anything until later on.

Then, after a couple of years. It really returned the Jedi hit and then I just like got really deep into like wanting all of those super weird background characters and all in love with Jab of the Hut and all that stuff. But I would say that number one, my earliest obsession as a kid was the Empire strikes, those action figures, wanting a Darth Vader, wanting a Stormtrooper, never being able to get them at that stage, never being able to find them. It was always the newer characters that I would get, knowing early on that the villains in the batties and the weirdos were my favorites, like right from the get go. I don't some sort of genetic disposition to not be interested in Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia and Han Solo.

Chewbacca sort of wrote that fine line between good guy and super weird. I accepted him, but the others why I was like, I was really into those Bounty Hunters. You brought up a couple of things. I'll talk about my Star Wars stuff at another point. Again, older than you, so I saw those movies you know, in the theaters, and yeah, had some of the early years.

So I'll save that for a later episode. But you bring up the point of the things that you didn't have, and that will become a through line for me on a lot of the stuff that's on my list. Yeah, we weren't well off when I was growing up. My dad taught since both my sister and I were young. We were two years apart, so when they moved here to Fresno, my sister was too going to be two, I should say, because our birthdays were both in March, so we're like two years and six days apart or something like that.

My mom stopped teaching to raise us until I was in sixth grade and my sister was in eighth grade. Then she went back. She substitute taught, and there's a couple funny stories about that I'll probably bring up at some point in this. She substitute taught at my school, I think by the time I was in fourth grade and my sister was in sixth grade. But my dad would also do all these odd job type things like nursery business, landscaping, painting houses, a lot of stuff that I got dragged into when I was old enough to help to supplement income tutoring.

There's a very interesting story about his tutoring that I'll probably hopefully get to at some point too. One of the kids that he tutored is notorious in Fresno. Interesting. I think it's fascinating. You've got to have some experience with landscaping.

That's cool. Oh, I hated all of it. I hated all of it. We'll get into that at some point that it ties into one of my obsessions. Actually, I'm glad i'm thinking about I'll have to listen back to these to refresh my memory about all the stuff that I'm now thinking of fits into some of these obsessions, because they're pretty good stories or interesting to me at least that whole idea of what I didn't get.

And I don't think it's necessarily monetary, but a lot of it is so for me. I grew up near Sunnyside, which is a very affluent area actual Sunnyside in Fresno. There's a country club over there, big big houses, a lot of mid century modern houses. It kind of used to be like before they built the mansions over there on like North Bend as I used to kind of be like Fresno's closest thing to Beverly Hills. Back in the day, and it was close to a lot of the agriculture in Sanger and Fowler and all that.

So a lot of rich farmers lived around there. And a lot of my friends at Easterby in my class lived in Sunnyside proper. A lot of them lived out by me. My best friend lived two blocks away from me, but a lot of them were definitely more well off, and I didn't really think about it much until later in life, realizing, Oh, when I went over to my friend Jason's house, he had all of the toys and figures that I wanted. When I went to my friend Dirk's house, they had all kinds of Dirk's dad was a dentist.

I don't know what Jason's dad did, but they had the coolest fucking house I've ever been to in my life, mid century modern, amazing in one of the circle drives in Sunnyside. He had a tree house. They had like two side guards, so the house was built you know, sideways, and a lot wonderful, huge swimming pool. Got really fun stories about being at his house. Yeah, that longing for existed for a long time.

Later in life, when eBay comes around, you know, looking into all that later on in these episodes, I'm not going with toys, I think this first time, I'm going to talk about some of the books, the reading. I guess old things that I became obsessed with as a kid. And only a few of these I have brought up from time to time on Wake Up Heavy because they've come up. But one my first obsessions was Harry Houdini, and I don't know what triggered it. I think it was.

And a lot of these book things relate back to Scholastic book I don't think we had book fairs when I was a kid at our school, but we got the flyers like all the time, and I would just pour through those flyers and look for things that the five page catalogs. Yeah, and they filled out your order. Most of the stuff was pretty cheap, and then you waited until that shipment came got your books. I love that day when they passed out the books. That goes into another obsession of mine.

That anticipation and that waiting definitely had to do as a kid in the seventies. It wasn't immediate, it wasn't Amazon Prime two days shipping type of stuff, which I love these days. Because that was frustrating to wait for stuff, so you'd fell out your order, give it to the teacher with the money, you know, your mom would write a check or give them cash or whatever. Who knows how long it took for those books to show up, But I think I probably was just intrigued by the cover image. And I think because I did a little search.

I'm like, what book would I have read about Harry Hudini back then? And I have it in my head that I read like a full length paperback biography, and I may have at some point, but I did see a book whose cover struck my memory, and I was like, oh, and it was a Scholastic book. I was like, oh, I probably, if nothing else, at least read that short little thing first. And they still do a lot of those books. And when I've taken Cleota book Farris or we see her book order, they have those little sure what the side, They're a little different size than most paperbacks, and it's just a brief biography of famous people.

Yeah. Yeah, So I became really intrigued by him, and it wasn't really mainly the magic, although that was a big part of it. I think what struck me the most was his fervent work to oust spiritualists and mediums that were ripping people off, because that was a big thing at the time when he was alive, and that always fascinated me. And I think they kind of in those books got into what those tricks were, like how they would make instruments play like I vividly remember at one he went to a trumpet kind of popped up and played on its own, and he would uncover all that and expose those people as frauds. That has gone on in my life where if a movie has a seance in it, it like automatically gets an extra half a star from me.

Yeah, if a movie has someone debunking seance, it gets a full star. And Amityville three D does that at the beginning of ye one of the reasons I like that movie. So yeah. I read probably at least two or three books about Harry Houdini growing up. I get the same sort of excitement from debunking of a fiction of like something that is, if someone is trying to bullshit another person or a group of people.

I love movies that are about movies and documentaries that are about dismantling that illusion or that that lie. I can see why you would be obsessed with Harry Houdini or why he'd be resonant with you, because you are. I mean, I've known you for so long and know what I can say this, You are a fervent teller of the truth. Is fervent a word I just made up? Or is that a real word?

Word? It's weird I heard myself saying. I was like, is that? Is that real? And so I can see why you would you would like that because his tricks were there was a kind of truth behind him, and that you could see.

You were supposed to feel like you were seeing what was really happening. He's not trying to hide or trick you. He's trying to show you what can happen through endurance and education. Really he was pretty tricky though. A lot of his escape tricks were hiding a key in the back of his throat or something.

Then he would pull out, cough back up and get out of either a jail he did all that. He would travel around the country and yeah, put me in your safest jail and I'll get out of it. There was a lot of trickery involved in some of those things, but something like the big trick of his that water tank where he would hang upside down. Yeah, yeah, which ended up being his demise in a way. What I react to the most is how the trickery is not something hidden.

It's like, I mean, it is something hidden for him, but you can see what's happening, Like he always wanted to make sure the audience could see what was happening, as opposed to here, I'm gonna pull a rabbit out of a hat. I know it's a really big thing. Like the hat is black and it's felt, and you can't see what's in it, and you can't see what's underneath that. That's part of what I think makes him cool is that he allowed the audience to watch as the trick was plopping. I think this was right at the beginning of the pandemic, and I don't know how it popped up into my feet on Twitter, but there is a fairly recent book that came out and I saw it on there and I was like, Oh, Harry Whodini, this isn't an obsession to last forever, Like I haven't read a book about him in decades.

It's just always something when I see a sance seen in a movie. I automatically go back to that Harry Whodini thing. So I saw this and then I noted I think it was like a retweet from somebody, but I noted the original poster. His name was Adam Bagley. I was like, Oh, another Bigley.

And then I was like, oh, this is the author of the book, which struck me as just really odd. And so I came and it's on his post. Oh it's nice to see another Bigley that was obsessed with Harry or that's obsessed with Harry Judini or something. And then I think he tried to like, you know, pitch, make sure you buy a copy or whatever, which I haven't done but I may do. And he's the son of Lewis Bagley, who's an author as well, wrote the book about Schmidt that that Jack Nicholson movie is based on.

I love that. I always remember seeing. You know, there aren't, as I've mentioned on the show, there aren't a lot of famous Bagley's out there, so when you see one, you kind of latch on. Ed Bigley Jr. Of course, which I did a whole series on Culture Cast.

But speaking of movies, I think I finally saw and It must have been the Tony Curtis Harry Hudini film. I saw it at some point when I was younger, and it was kind of a disappointment. He'd led a very interesting life, one of the first like big superstars that ended up getting them into movies, which were still pretty new at the time, so he was in a lot of silent films, then met an untimely death. It's kind of suspect as to how that happened. Supposedly, the apocryphal story is that a guy black, a football player, came up to challenge him because he was known for being really strong and muscular, and said, hey, let me punch you in the stomach.

Houdini wasn't prepared for the punch and it caused internal bleeding, but there may have been some underlying issue. That's all very fascinating then, and this comes up in a movie I just watch recently which made me think about Houdini. The idea of or not a movie, but The Midnight Club, the show on Netflix where they're intent, you know, these are all kids that are close to death and they are intent on proving if there is actually an afterlife. I will let you know in no uncertain terms, and that was his pact with his wife. If there really is an afterlife and if there is a way to communicate, I will figure it out and let you know.

That's amazing. I don't know if he died or was born on October thirty first, or if they just chose that as the date. You know, every year after his death she would have a seance or on Halloween to see if he could communicate, and of course he never did, right. I think that's hilarious, darkly hilarious that they would hold a seance, which is something that he would comfort between. Right, But if anyone could do it, I guess this idea was he would.

So what's up next for you? Well, it's funny because the and I know that we'll bond on this too, because we've talked a lot about the Scholastic books. Is sort of how what it leads me to my next obsession, which started with It's a multifaceted obsession in other words, it has taken many different forms throughout my entire life so far. But as a kid, this book, I'm pretty competent. I got it through a book fair movie Monsters by Alan ormsby Worms and You've talked about Alms ORMs Be quite a bit on your podcast.

I had no idea who Alan Ormsformsby was, nor did I really care. As a kid, it was all about this book. I had no idea who it was either wouldn't have had any reason too. I don't think it's mentioned in the blurb on the book. It's not.

There's no mention of that at all. And you had mentioned that you had had a copy of this too. I think yeah, and I have one over here somewhere. But I'm sort of glad that you're the one doing this one because, as you mentioned, I've kind of talked about it already. Yeah, I'm going to cross out off my list because I did have the Ormsby book on my list.

We both talked about it. This book it's called Movie Monsters, Monster Makeup and Monsters Shows to put on by Allen Ormsby. You'll get the name right eventually. Scholastic Book Services put this out. The addition that I have I had to rebuy this edition.

It's nineteen seventy five. Yep. Same. I don't know what happened to my origin whole edition. It was probably given away when when my mom gave my toys to her elementary school students.

Yep, toys, comics, and these things all ended up in fort stores or god knows where. Thanks all the people. That's going to come up multiple times during Yeah, yeah, it took me a long time to not be frustrated about that action. I still am. I mean, the rural community that I grew up in was fairly poor.

It took me a while to figure out that her giving those toys to her students was probably very generous. Yeah, a very generous move, especially since most of those kids probably didn't have many of those things. And now to this day, every time I find a vintage action figure or an item from my childhood in either an antique store or a toy store, collectible store, or comic book store, I feel like I might be buying the thing that I was given away that used to be mine. Hey, you never know, you never know. And this version of the Moving Monsters came from eBay.

I read this repeatedly, Oh yeah, and religiously. As a kid, I created the crafts that were described in here, including the Frankenstein paperbag head Lucky Bastards paper bag head, which was challenged because this book describes a particular sized paperbag that has really exist exactly, which I talk about when I talk about that, yeah, because I could never do it. I'm like, yeah, they're way too big and this thing does not fit over my head and I have a small head. Even to this day, it's about the same size as it was in elementary school. So this motherfucking bag don't exist.

I know, I know. I had to figure out a way to jerry rig a bag to fit my head, and that became a real challenge. But I was determined to try and make it happen. And I never put on a play because that kind of that idea just sort of annoyed me or scared me maybe is a better term. Before it I think get into like performance until later on in life.

Well I don't know how I did that, but even as a kid, I was shy about that stuff. Yeah, so I tried out all these special effects makeup tricks that are basically just DIY things. Use what your parents have in their pantry and their medicine cabinet, whatever you can buy to make this stuff. It struck a real powerful chord with me. To this day, I'm an advocate for using things that are around you to make new things as opposed to buying all of your art materials new us when you can find and it led me to a very powerful obsession that still to this day stays true, which is the corror movie monsters.

You know, Frankenstein's Monster, the Wolfman, Creature from the Black Lagoon especially, and Dracula and the Brida Frankenstein. Those particular characters have always been very emotional and positive energy in my life, and I can trace it back to this particular book. I had this book before I'd even seen any of the classic universal horror films, and so I had this at a very young age. I didn't start watching those until they popped up on what was called Action theater. You've talked about it.

I was on Channel twenty six. It was Saturday afternoons, right after the cartoons. It started around noon, and I think they'd show Kung Fu movies and they'd also show horror movies. Action theater could be westerns or horrors, and then at some point they actually changed to kung Fu theater when it was almost and that was probably because, and that was in the eighties, a lot of those Shaw Brothers movies were bought up for syndication, and so these stations that were probably all owned by the same company had access to all those Shaw Brothers movies and it's like, well, let's start showing these on Saturdays. And they still showed horror movies, just kind of depend on the weekend, I think.

I mean, that's a whole other Yeah, for sure, I remember distinctly when it sort of made when they made that shift. It's a little disappointed, to be honest with you, because I just really you know, they even showed some Hammer films and oh yeah, I got a story about that too. Yeah, there you go. That's when I first saw a Curse of the Werewolf, which is Oliver read, which is a phenomenal. This led me toward that obsession, which was with the universal monsters and making stuff at home.

And like I said, and I don't want this is not a SOB story, but I spent a lot of time alone just making stuff or exploring and building forts and just by myself. And so this allowed me the opportunity to put on costumes and pretend, even away from Halloween, and get into finding ways to express myself not just in my mind through play, but also in a performative way which allowed me to break out of my shell a little bit as a kid. And so it really helped me in a multitude of ways. And then I got really obsessed with in this again still to this day, special effects makeup. When I was in middle school, it was my career choice.

It was like, is what I wanted to do. I was reading Fingoria magazine and I was watching all those movies and not for jump scares, not for anything like that. I was watching it for the artistry of the gore, the monster effects, a text, the animatronics and all that stuff. And I don't think I would have been as interested in that stuff if I didn't have this book as a youngster. That's sort of like a multitude of categories stem from this book.

I mean, rubber masks, Starlog magazine, and Kangorian Magazine and Sine Fantastique magazine. And my dad really taught me to appreciate film, and he taught me about horror movie. He showed me some work films and cult films as well. He was really into that stuff, which was cool. But I don't think I would have been as interested if I didn't discover this book it's still strange.

I don't quite I think it was a book fair, but I don't know. I may have even rented it from the school library or something. I don't know, because our school library had some seriously cool books in such a small little community. And monsters. You remember the Orange series of hard backs, and they were each one was about a particular monster.

I think they were spill out too, but so I would check those out of the library. And I don't know how I got ahold of this book, but it changed my life in a very very cool way. I had the same story. I don't think I attempted any of the makeup in here, because I wanted to do the Frankenstein one, so that was the one that looked the coolest, and just could never find that bag that I think he just invented so that he could create in the book. Yeah, it was all very interesting though, And you have to point out, though, when you talk about this book, just how charming the illustrations are that he did.

That's what always struck me. I would look at it just to appreciate the illustrations. They're amazing, even the simplest makeup things in they're like the Dracula one, which is basically just making a widow's peak on your forehead. Never even attempted those. The Jackal and Hyde thing is brilliant, which they actually do in that film, that trick of lighting with If you've got red makeup on your face and you have a red filter over the lights, it's not going to show up on a film once you pull that red filter off and put a blue filter on, which you can do in a black and white film, because no one's going to see that light change.

There's a movie I see this clip at least two or three times a year. I think it's called The Octopus, and I think it's a foreign film, an old foreign film, and there's this woman and she starts cackling maniacally and then her face does that change where it just gets all dark and wrinkly, and I'm like, that's the exact same effect, and that's how they did it. It's so much more effective to me than stop motion like they do with the Werewolf, you know, to apply all the hair. It's more effective to me that it happens literally in camera. Both men stuff happened in camera, but you're using stop motion techniques to film that frame by frame, and to see something like this where you know they didn't make an edit, it just happens on screen, is still fascinating to me.

Again, I think that goes back to you and your fascination with pulling the curtain away seeing the thing happened. I'm saying that because I'm the same way. It's so cool to see it happen. And yeah, I feel the same way about that pro I hadn't really given that much stop, but that's probably also why I got interested in those things too, the special effects and why horror movies, particularly the thing where you're going like, how in the world did they achieve all this mind blowing finding out later on basically every shot is a completely different setup that required completely different tools, and you just think about the defibrillation scene in that and how many setups they had and how many changes in the press ICs and things they had to complete that task.

It's amazing even to this day that particular scene. When we watched it with our daughters they experienced it for the first time, it was shocking for them still to this day. Yeah, yeah, I think Cleo is still pretty blown away by it, even in this world like special effects that are supposed to be hyper real digital animation. It's like nothing comes close to that tactile stuff. And you also mentioned not really knowing if it was a book you bought or checked out of the library, and I'm the same way.

And I may have mentioned this in an episode previously on Wake Up Heavy. I probably did. I want to say that I checked it out from the library. I don't know if I owned the Scholastic copy myself. I know that I saw it in the catalog, so it's like, did I end up buying it?

I don't know either. Again, when eBay came around, it's one of those things that popped into my head to look for, took me into I did those episodes on Ormsby and Clark to actually hunker down and buy one tin bucks or something. Probably when I first started looking forward on eBay, probably could have gotten it for five, but you know, tin bucks ain't bad. I think I got mine for about five, so I was surprised. I might have actually bought it on AbeBooks dot com, but I don't remember now.

So my next session goes along these same lines. Did I get this from Scholastic? Did I not? I don't know, and I have mentioned this on Wake Up Heavy a number of times, but I was obsessed with the Elephant Man. I don't know where that came from.

I could have been one of those short biographies in Scholastic catalog. I don't know if they had a book like that. And I might be conflating this with the Harry Houdini stuff, but I'm pretty sure for this. I read two different books about the Elephant Man, and I believe that one of them was the biography that Frederick Treves wrote, which is the basis of the David Lynch film Think about it off and on. Did I see the movie first?

Or did I know about this person and read these books prior? And I want to say sort of had a light bulb moment the other day where I was like, I remember sitting in a theater and thinking, oh, they really got this makeup correct. So I must have had the books because they had pictures of him in the books. Could be a false memory, but I want to say that the books came first, the interest in him came first. And again I would have to say it was either from a Scholastic catalog or a lot of my discoveries just came from the library itself, either the school library or the Sunnyside Library, which is where we went a lot.

I checked out a lot of books from the Sunnyside Library, and that'll come up again and again because a lot of the different things I by here, I'm like thinking I checked that out of the Sunnyside Library. That corner of Kings Canyon and Clovis Avenue was our hub for shopping. There was I think it was a Vaughans. We had an Alphabeta right by our house which we did most of our shopping app but I think once Vaughans moved in over there, we would go there a lot. Even before there was a big grocery store there.

We would go to the library to Christiansen's Market which was in the same corner, and our Me and Eds pizzeria was there, so we would go there for me and Eds either after baseball games or baseball practice, or just whenever we wanted pizza. There was this fantastic fruit and vegetable stand on Kings Canyon, just a little west of Clovis Avenue that we went to, probably all at the same time. Hit the stand, go to the library, go to Christiansen get all of that shopping done at the same time, and later on in life, that's where the video store that I would go to was just down the strip mall from Vaughan's. That's where McDonald's was. So when we got our McDonald's, that was a treat.

When I would help my dad do yard work, that's some of the McDonald's we went to. Javiers was there all this stuff. That was really our central location for most of the things I did up through high school. Really, I know that I read a couple of books and was just extremely fascinated with this life that this guy led in Victorian England. Was really excited when that movie came out and I went to go see it with my friend Scott Christiansen.

Strangely enough lived right behind that Christiansen's market. They weren't the family that owned it. They lived on Park Circle Drive in Sunnyside. Really cool house. He was one of those kids that had a lot of the toys that I'd never had.

I don't know why we went to see it. I don't know. It didn't come out around my birthday, opened in like October of nineteen eighty. I know why. I wanted to go see it, but I don't know why he and I actually went to go see it.

I may have just probably convinced it, yeah, just I come along. Who knows. He probably absolutely hated it. I remember just like bawling like a child during numerous scenes in that movie, you know, when he's being attacked. Apparently a lot of this stuff didn't happen.

A lot of the worst stuff that's shown in the movie didn't actually happen to him, which is nice to know, but it's little kind of like, why did you manipulate me that way? That was also the first movie that made me genuinely interested in the Oscars, because I remember making it a point since it was up for the Big Eight nominations, and I was absolutely gunning for that movie to win everything it was nominated for. Yeah, and I didn't know David Lynch from Adam at that time. Probably heard araser Head pop up or read it in articles about the Elephant Man. Wouldn't see that for a number of years, but I wanted him to win so badly, wanted the movie to win so badly.

Of course, that was the Year of Ordinary People, so it lost out to that. I think in most categories may have won for makeup or something I don't know or sound designer who knows what. That movie I rarely return to these days because it hits me so hard emotionally. The last time I watched it was a couple of years ago, and it's just like, I can't do this very often. It's still it still really devastates me.

And then my friend was probably just going like, it's a problem. Are you crying? Who's Mark? I don't even know who this kid is anymore. That's an important film because it was my first experience with David Lynch too.

My dad must have shown it to me, and I don't know how I could have. I wasn't interested in the true story behind John John Merrick, Right, here's it yet, John Lynch. Yeah, I can't wait for us to do a David Lynch episode because there's just so much to talk about there. And I know, if we're both you and I David Lynch, it's just been a thread, a constant thread, so there's a lot to go to talk about there as far as he's concerned. I remember being struck by those Lynchian touches.

Are there aren't that many, but the dream sequences. Oh yeah, we're very fascinating. And then when the movie opens, Anthony Hopkins is performing a surgery. All of the equipment looks really weird, and of course I understood, you know, this took place a hundred or so more years ago, eighteen hundreds at some point, but I remember thinking, oh, it's probably just because of that it's so old. But I think when I look at it now, it's like, probably really picked some odd stuff to have in the surgery room as just you know, a lynch in touch.

I mean I liked surreal stuff even back then, although I probably didn't know the term. You know, That's why tourist trap stuck out to me. Oh yeah, for sure so much when I saw it. It is very surreal, phantasm, all those things that would come a couple of years later. But still I'm not having a phrase or a term for that, what that kind of imagery does.

I just knew that I liked it, and I always have and still do. It stood out to me about Elephant Man, as you mentioned it before, the sound design that too. Think that's where, you know, aside from it being black and white and there being a few moments visually where we are stricken by Lynch's style in Elephant Man. It's the sound design that really shows through. You can see David Lynch he's thinking about the auditory experience of watching this film early on.

Well that's a through line from a racer head on. I mean, he probably loved it because it's industrial age shouldn't in England, so you can have all that machinery sound and steam sound, and it was probably a very loud city at that time. Yeah, for sure that was like, right, oh good, you know this is right up my alley as far as sound goes, because that's what Eraserhead is is all those industrial sounds layered and the layered. My third thing that I picked to talk about today now feels out of left field because I feel like in many ways the Creatures of Star Wars, the Harry Houdini book relating to the allen Ormsy book and the Weirdos and all that stuff I want now that I'm staying out loud, and then John Merrick, of course, now I'm saying out loud, maybe it does relate.

My other obsession as a young person was the Muppets. My experience with the Moving Monsters book is similar to my experience with the Muppets. By the time I got really interested in them, they were no longer on primetime and the only time I could see an episode was at four o'clock in the morning when it aired on television, and my dad was generous enough to take them on video cassette. I didn't get to actually watch many episodes of the Muppet Show, but I had seen the Muppet Movie in the theater. I didn't really get to start watching the Muppet Show until later on, but before I started watching the Muppet Show recorded on video cassette, I had the Muppet Movie in my mind.

I was more interested in the Puppets themselves or the Muppets themselves. It goes back to the whole like ormsby thing, which is you make it yourself. How are these things made? How can you make something like this? And so we would go to the Readley Library, which is about the size of the room I'm sitting in right now, a person wall library.

It's in between Fresno and the Foothills where I lived. We would go to the Redley Library often because we had relatives in Readley. I would beline it to this one section I must have been crafts or something, but they had a book and I still can't find it. I've looked on eBay, I've looked everywhere. It's been an ongoing obsession, and my memory of it could be I could be mixing up several different books.

There was How the Muppets Are Made book, essentially the humor. I didn't even care about the performances. I didn't care about who these characters represented or the entertainment aspect of the Muppets. It was really just that these super weird characters, the monsters especially, were made out of material that you that seemed to come alive. It was like foam and carpet like essentially, and ping pong balls as eyes.

And I just love that there were people putting their pants in the cloth objects and making stories giving life to these inanimate weirdos. So the Muppets were, and they still are to this day. The new Muppet thing comes out, I get really excited in a visceral way. In fact, I have this really strange. So there are certain songs pop songs that would come on in the eighties.

One of the Tears for Fear songs in particular, reminds me of the Muppets, which is really strange. It's like, every time I hear that song, I can't remember the title of it right now. Every time I hear that song, it reminds me of the Muppets. Every time I smell a permanent marker a sharpie, I am reminded of the Muppets because I used to draw them obsessively with sharpies, and my mom taught elementary school. She would take me to school early.

I'd get out of some paper and start drawing with the permanent markers that were there, and it would be either Universal Monsters, Star Was Characters, Masters of the Universe, or for an intended period of time, it was Muppets. So now I associate those smells and those the occasional eighties pop song to memories of the Muppets, and I don't I can't really explain how or I except for the fact that those songs were on the radio and I was doing a lot of drawing with sharpies. While I was interested in them, the Muppets were, you know, and I kind of studied the Muppet movie for a period of time after high school. It was my first experience aside from like the rereleases of the Star Wars films. Rewatching the Muppet movie was my first experience really with diving back into a trying to grasp onto a nostalgic feeling.

Muppets will always be a nostalgic gateway drug for me. I watched The Muppet Show when it was on, and that it started in seventy six, so I was seven. I remember watching it. Of course, I had also watched Sesame Street, so I was familiar with a few of them. I think by the time the show ended, I was already too old for it.

That was around when I was twelve. I don't recall seeing any of the movies in the theater, and I still don't think I've seen most of them. We watched them of a Christmas Carol, I think last year. I don't think I'd ever watched that before in my life, So at some point I threw them aside, like once that show ended and I was twelve, And a lot of stuff stops at twelve or thirteen for me, which we'll get into later, along with getting rid of comic books and toys and all that stuff. As we cast these things aside and then later regret it as I look over I've got the Sesame Street legos set.

Their design and imagery still really strikes a chord, and I have shoot, don't I thought I had a lane out here somewhere when I have a little Ernie plush, But I got because Burton Ernie were sort of the big ones for me as far as Sesame Street. So I have a little Ernie plush that I still have, so that survived from childhood. But the things I remember were the hand puppets that they made. I know they had Franklin, I want to say they had probably Burton Ernie and Grover. Grover was one of my favorites.

So they were a hard The head was hard, like a really thick vinyl. Yeah, and they came in a pretty large box, so it was head, torso and arms. Yes, I remember seeing them in grocery stores. Oh yeah, in particular. Franklin never had one of those.

But again one of those things that like I used to see all the time and kind of go like, I sort of really want one of those, but I don't know what I would do with it because I wasn't into like puppetry and stuff. The sign of them was fascinating. I do remember, though, having the Fisher Price little people, and I think these were hand me downs. I don't think we bought these because there were a random one. Actually I don't even remember which ones we had.

I just know that there was a set again of the street with the buildings, and probably similar to the lego set that I have. You had all these different characters, Big Bird, Oscar, Cookie Monster, all these and those little wooden not the fat, chubby, gross plastic little people that they have now, but the little wooden ones. And then when they did go to plastics, but they were still that smaller shape. I also had finger puppets, and these are oh I had the Grover one things that I still look for I am really tempted to buy on eBay. I had Oscar the Grouch and maybe one or two others of those finger puppets.

I don't know if those were bought new or those were also hand me downs. Those I remember, and those are things that pop up every once on my head and I do eBay searches four and save in my cart and never buy, and then they get sold or just get unlisted, and at some point I'll probably get an Oscar the Grouch because that was the one that I remember really enjoying. I had the Grover Finger puppet. I'm glad you brought it up, because those were amazing. I had a few friends that had the Sesame Street Fisher Price figures figurines.

I think they were left over from older siblings, and I just remember seeing them at their houses and always wanting Another friend had the Oscar the Grouch. It was Fisher Price who pump air into the trash can with a little hand thing. The head would pop up out of the trash can, and I thought that that was the coolest thing ever. So I am glad you brought up Sesame Street and reminded me, because I'm I'm nine percent sure that it was Sesame Street that led me to the Muppets, and I just stayed with the Muppets. I'm the same way with the Sesame Street characters too, like they strike a very powerful chord with me.

I see Big Bird, I see Osca the Grouch, I see Grover in any form, and I'm taken back to those years. We have on DVD that early early episodes of Sesame Street, and I remember even as a kid, that they would rerun those. My appreciation for Sesame Street is those early years as well. Any of the characters that have the big red nose or what I liked. I was always fascinated by the nose, and every once in a while one would get pulled off of somebody on the Sesame Street.

I loved it. There's one episode where Kermit, I don't remember how this works. Kermit is either a dentures salesman or someone is a denture salesman and Kurmit ends up with dentures and it was the most terrifying thing. I found it on YouTube about five years ago. I haven't rewatched it, but it took me years to find that clip, and it's still terrifying.

Fog of dentisters. I'm trying to decide what to go if I wanted to stick with books this time and save everything else for later. I don't think I owned this book. I believe it was strictly school library checkouts, and it was the Alien picture Book. Oh so would have come out in seventy nine.

I would have been in fifth grade, and there is absolutely no way in hell that my parents would have taken me to see Alien. These picture books and they'll pop up a couple of times I have still I believe the Dune picture book that's basically the same thing. Pretty simple synopsis of the story with tons of pictures. Yeah, and they were oversized, like folio sized books. I'm pretty sure this is something that I did not owned because I don't think my mom would have appreciated it.

They weren't real restrictive on things, but I think I always had that fear, like, oh, if I took this home, my mom would say take it back or whatever. I think it was school library. It might have even been classroom library. I don't know. I just remember always being at my desk when I looked at this thing, and so I knew most of those big images from the movie with very little content.

I don't even know if I read the text of the book. I think I just looked at the pictures, and the things that really struck me were ash, especially when his head gets knocked off. Absolutely the chess burster, which I'm pretty sure they show. I don't know if it's you know, I mean it was I think geared towards kids, so I don't think it was too terribly graphic. The alien phenomenon is so weird, or maybe they just didn't understand it and had it at the library and didn't really look through it like they would today, to comb to find any secret messages about clusion in any way or something like that.

But yeah, I mean there was the Toy, the Kinner, the Giant they I mean, it's not a kid's movie in the least. I just remember looking at that book constantly. I don't know when. I mean, it would have been at least three more years before I would have seen the movie, maybe even more, but once video stores started popping up, probably watched it at the same place where I watched most of the other horror movies I saw when I was at age at a family friend's house who's one of the sons my sister ended up dating for a good while, and they had a VCR and were even closer to the Anyside video store that we would go to. A lot of those movies were first watched at their house, so it's probably then.

Boy, I perused that book so many times in fifth grade. What's interesting is that I think I saw Alien for the first time when it was broadcast on television. I mean, this is the era that we lived in, Like they showed it an edited version, of course, but they that's a possibility that. Yeah, that's definitely a possibility too. That's also how I saw The Exorcist.

Yeah, I saw The Exorcist for the first time on TV. I want to say that they promoted it as uncut, but I really don't think the crucifix scene was in left in. But I remember being really freaked out by that, like jumping up and actually hiding behind the couch. So I was probably like twelve or thirteen. It was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had.

I was at my aunt's house and I was, I don't know, eight or something. I think she just put it on because I said I wanted to watch a scary movie and it was on TV and she just left and watching it scary the you know what out of me. But yeah, that's funny you mentioned Alien. I don't think I saw it on video cassette until years later. The first experience was that edited version.

I have that on my list too. Alien as an obsession too had led me. We went to visit one of my dad's friends and he had that. He had the Kenner Alien on his coffee toll. Alien and toys is a strange relationship because I feel like it was the first new released toy that adults could collect too, because it was an R rated film.

It was a scary move movie. There's a toy that's made for kids that adults wanted to have, and they had it too. I think I had a version of that book too as a kid. It's almost like it's an alien movie. Kids who like Star Wars who are probably like this too, and so that's what they were gunning for.

I don't know how successful it was. You look at the face hugger, you look at the hr Geiger designs, and then you watch the movie in its entirety, and this is a It's so perplexing that that and then eventually Predator would become toys for kids. You watched that first Predator movie too, It's like golry. It's one of the golorious films that I had seen. Alien isn't really all that gory, which is thinks about it.

I don't think that the Kinner figure was much of a success. You couldn't at the time market things two adults as collectors. When you look at the old ads, it's a kid, yeah, playing with this huge eighteen inch alien figure. That's out of scale with everything. I mean, I guess if you have megos or g I Joe, it's sort of in scale, but it's out of scale with most other things.

Definitely out of scale with three three and three quarter inch figures. I don't think a lot of parents were willing to get this for their kids. I don't even know what when I discovered that there was an alien toy, because I didn't know about it at the time, I probably would have been interested in it just because of the book. Yeah, for sure, that figure is definitely on my list of things to find. I don't ever recall seen one though, like in the wild or anything.

No, no, me, neither. Just on my dad's friend's coffee tape. Well, I think that's good for a first one. The only thing we haven't talked about is why this show is called Cambridge and washn Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So why is it called Cambridge and was Sean Running?

Because that's not our names. It's not our names, it's not our pseudonyms, it's not noms. It took us a long time to figure out what to call those things, and it makes sense to us that it'd be called Cambridge and was Shan because for a good period of time you and I both lived in the same apartment complex, which was based it converted mansion, I guess could have been. I mean, it's so close to Fresno City, it could have been student housing. I guess it could have been built a student But it was probably a big house.

It was probably just a big two story house in the nineteen twenties. Perhaps maybe it was built essentially it was an apartment complex of studio apartments. You lived there first. I lived there first, got kicked out because I was using a space heater well, and there's a good reason I forgot it because I was working most days then. I was substitute teaching at the time and was working a lot because my mom was still teaching, and so I would work for her and for many of the other teachers at her school that was at Faulkner.

I mentioned Air earlier, and they were built at the same time. It was the same building. Yeah, So it always used to kind of trip me out when I would go there because it was set up exactly the same as Air. And there was a couple other schools like Malik and other schools here in Fresno that we're all built with the exact same design at the same time. I guess to make things simple.

I don't know, I mean, I does it makes sense. When I moved in, I was like, the heater doesn't work when you move in somewhere, all the stuff is supposed to work. Yeah, right, of course winter doesn't last forever here. That problem would go away until the next winter. So I lived there at least during two winters because I know it wasn't an issue for as long as I was there.

But whenever it got cold again, I was like, I give you the landlady there was ancient. She was super super old, foreign, a foreign gal. She had an heavy accent. I'm like, pleased, have pg any come out and fix this. I have no idea how to fix it.

I don't know what's wrong with it. I keep trying to light the pilot light. They do that. I am giving you permission because they aren't supposed to go into your place when you're not there, which she apparently did anyway, because how would they know that I was using a space heater. Absolutely every time p Jeannie would come out, I wouldn't be there, and I said, please let them in and show them the heater and have it fixed, or I'm going to keep using my space heater because I'm not going to freeze to death.

So I got kicked out for that. That was too much trouble for old Agnes. I think she was German. I moved out. I don't know when you moved in, but you moved into where I had lived.

Yeah, since I got kicked out, I didn't have anywhere else to go, went back home for a while. Then I ended up at the Flaming June House when Dan moved out. And then your sister was going to move out or her and her boyfriend. I hadn't remember what the deal was, but she was across the hall from you at the time. Yeah, so yeah, I moved in probably ninety eight.

I think she moved in shortly after because there was a vacancy and she didn't lived there for very long, maybe a year. You know what. Actually, she was there when I was there, across the hall. Oh that's right, Okay, that's right. She helped me get the department, that's right.

Yeah, and then she left. Because I'm thinking, like, wait a minute, I know that she was there while I was there. So the story isn't making sense, That's right, that's been she left. And then because other than the space heater, Agnes realized that I was a good tenant. Yeah, I got allowed back in and I moved in across the hall from you where your sister had been.

We lived across the hall from each other for a little bit there a couple of years, so I was there I think ninety eight through late ninety nine. That's when Carline moved in, and then we moved into a bigger place, that's right. And I was there until about two thousand. I moved out shortly after you moved out. I think the place was on the corner of Cambridge and with Shawan Avenues in Fresno.

If anybody listening is ever driving through Fresno and you're in that Fresno City College area, there's a big pink building on the corner of Cambridge and was Sean, and apartment I lived in was Mark's whole department facing the street facing was Seawan, and then your apartment was on the other side. Your leader apartment was on the other side across the hall. There was a fun little place. There were some weird goings on, but not terribly bad. My car got stolen from there a couple of times, and it was not the best place to live, but it was certainly Lynchian.

I'd say it's lynch I learned the second one better because it had that big, huge, built in bookcase that someone had put in at some point, so all of my books actually had a place to go. While it was just me, it was perfect going to bed in the same room that you're doing everything else and always appealed to me a way it still sort of does. It's an ideal scenario for a person living on their own. Studio apartment is great, like a hotel room all day long, very much so. A lot of fun memories there.

Like you said, it was super weird too. That's where Mark and Ronnie movie viewings began, really back when you were just living there, and then eventually when we were both living there, we watched movies. I distinctly remember watching Jackie Chan movies with you and your little brother. Yeah. Yeah, my little brother Jake moved in there too.

He was really little though at the time, or much younger than you, so he was with you and you guys came over and I had some I still have it. I have like a three or maybe it's two tapes chance set of movies which I haven't watched and probably since I moved out of there, fantastic. I don't even remember which movies were on there, and I don't know if that was a gift from somebody or if I bought it. That's why this show is called Cambridge and was Sean. That's where we spent a lot of a lot of fun time together and where the law of these discussions that we are going to currently be having or having in the future year sort of stem from, Yeah, we need to go put a plaque on there.

That's right, No one will notice. Mark and Ronnie lived here. That's right. That's right, and now you can listen to their podcast on weirdingwaymedia dot com. That's right.

Well, do you want to give a preview of what we'll be talking about next month? And this will be a monthly show. I don't know what day of the week it will be released, but for those that have caught this first episode, it will be monthly. So this isn't going to be coming out all that often, and we may have so keep your eyes peeled for this. We may have a video companion portion where we if we have them.

The things that we're discussing, like the Ormispy book, you and I both own copies. Some of the other stuff will probably have to mind the Internet for pictures of let as things get further along here, we will actually have the physical items that we're talking about. For a lot of this little video preview episode, you will have hopefully a video companion on Ronnie's channel, and so they will be links for all of that, or we'll let people know via our own instagrams and things when that's available. When and if that pans out, I'm kind of hoping it does. Yeah, since we're talking about and it's the same for movie podcasts, you're talking about a visual medium, but this is all auditory, so you're missing those things.

But you know, feel free to look up all the stuff that we've mentioned. Do you want to give an idea of what you might bring to the table next time, Well, goodness, we have a lot of options. Yeah. I has still have a whole crapload and I was adding stuff as we were talking. There's two things that I have my list.

It actually there's several here. There's like a whole slew of things. You and I could talk about Hitchcock. We could talk about Stephen Mking. We could talk about McDonald's McDonald's land.

We could talk about garbage, failed kids. We could talk about Popeye of a movie that's on my list by the movie. There's a ton of things we could talk about for next to the next episode. What do you have in mind? Probably to a couple more book related items, because that was a lot of in elementary school.

A lot of what I was into revolved around books of one kind or another, and so that may start veering me into comic book territory, and that's a topic that will run throughout. I think a lot of these, but a couple of maybe oddball things that I experienced via comic books. One story in particular that I'll get to eventually, which is on my website currently. I kind of love this story, not necessarily comic book characters or Marvel or DC, but things that were sprinkled throughout comic books. Yes, monthly look for the show.

Please hit Sclevator and we'll have links for all of our other ventures. So Ronnie's YouTube channel, my show Wake Up Heavy from the Files of Police Squad show, which will be coming out around the same time as this. We'll have links and all that in the description for this episode and on our social media pages. So I am at wake Up Heavy on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and letterboxed and link tree, Ronnie, Where can people find you? I've got a sclevator link tree that'll take you to the YouTube channel, to my Facebook page Instagram.

If you're going to go on Instagram or Facebook or YouTube, Skela Underscore Vader is probably the best way to find me. Also, you could find my art Instagram, which is Ronald Zurygean Underscore Projects and Zurygian's Tricky It's d z E R I G I M and so it's r in A L D and another d Zurygean Underscore Projects. There's lots of good stuff out there. It's been fun talking to you, Mark and doing this new venture with you. I'm so glad that we decided to do this.

This has been a blast. Oh and the music, by the way, that will tell him each episode and close each episode is from Grani's band eighty eight, which was around when what years were you guys active? Oh gosh, ninety six, I think nineteen ninety six. I was in the ninety five ninety six, so I definitely knew you then because I saw many of these shows. Yeahs went to many of the shows.

We were like a two person experimental punk band called I eighty eight, which is funny because that's the first thing I talked about today was my obsession with Star Wars action figures, and I eighty eight was a figure that Matt It was in my band with me. He and I agreed that that was one of the coolest action figures, so we named the band after that. I g eight eight his name of the experimental punk band you heard at the beginning of the near at the end and we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening, all right bye? I must like and how can it take a lea my second hellotion?

Why not at your kidding Lam