Episode 14: The ape regards his tail

Cambridge or Shawn is a weirding Way media podcast. Fally Really did It? Oh Man? You blow Up? DN?

God Damn? Hello and welcome to Cambridge and Wasshon, a podcast by two weird guys about the weird things that they like. My name is Ronnie, otherwise known as s Elevator, and I'm here with my friend Mark. Hi. I am Mark Bigley, the host of Wake Up Heppy and co host of Cambridgjimy Seawan and co host of The Chasing Chevy Oh Yeah, and a Chevy podcast that will be coming out in April.

And if you're new to this, Mark and I have been friends for ages and we've always gotten together and talked about this stuff, and that's why we decided to turn this into a podcast. You have some updates, so let's get into those as usual. I wanted to update my six million dollar man replacement arm skin situation yas I was waiting for that massive bag of balloons that I had ordered, and I got them shortly after we recorded and worked on getting one on his arm. I split about three or four of them before I figured out I had to go about it a different way, and the fifth one went on like a charm at. Once I figured out the motion of working it up the arm, it went on pretty easily.

It's very thin, though compared to the original, so I suspect that. I mean, I didn't mean to imply that the originals were just Latex balloons. But the replacement skins that you see on eBay definitely are so right, buyer beware. But the old one that I had taken off is considerably thicker, and that could just be shrinkage from over the years. You don't understand it was shrinkage.

I believe it was a heavier duty Latex than these balloons. They're very, very thin, but you can do it. So I still have them. If anybody wants any ninety nine flesh balloons, Yes, they are very fleshy. The trials and tribulations of flesh balloons.

This could go on and on. It's such a weird thing. I love it. And then I think this was actually he'd been working on this for a while. But friend of your show mortarheads, Oh yeah, a Maskatron mask recently with a Steve Austin cover.

So you get the Maskatron mask that looks like the figure, and then you get a mask of Steve Austin that you can put over it. It's pretty awesome, way out of my price range, but that was happening right at the same time Mark and right from Mortarheads is great. It's almost you know, he's one of those characters out there in the world that I feel like, no matter what you and I talk about, or no matter what is of interest to me at a particular moment, for some reason, Mark is like right on it. He's like, you know, his masks are amazing. If those of you who are not familiar with Mortarheads go check him out.

He does. He's traditionally known for lately, at least his LATEX masks of vintage action figures. So he's done Star Wars, he's the Star Wars canterfigures, the creatures mainly, and then he's done some of the creatures, and then he's done Masters of Universe Action figures and those were actually picked up some of them were picked up by Neka and released online. And then yeah, now he's doing this. I mean, the guy is great.

He's very talented. I love his work. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I'm expecting him to after this episode of Hours, and not because he listens, but to come out with something based on what we're talking about today, yeah, makes sense, would make uh huh, very good sense. Uh huh.

And then a little correction. I looked into Frankenhooker. Oh yeah, I was quite confident about the Trauma association and looked it up online and the distribution company actually listed on Wikipedia, I believe, and it wasn't Trauma. So I'm could have sworn it was. That movie may still have been, but it could have been false information.

Yeah, I mean I can see why that association would be made, and it made sense to me when you mentioned it. So I was like, yeah, that movie is in thinking about it, the movie is almost too good. Does that make sense for Trauma? I mean, that's harsh, that's a harsh critique, but but yeah, that makes sense. I can see it being a Trauma film.

Yeah, well distributed by Trauma. Yeah, I was distributed. Yeah, but they actually specifically named the distribution company because a lot of times for these movies, they'll have when it was first released on VHS or DVD or Blu ray and names the company that did that. And they did and it was not Trauma. Now that's not to say they didn't distribute it later on, and yeah, or something right, And then I had a funny thought.

I had mentioned the World Magazine photo shoot that I look at the underground gardens, and you had mentioned that your dad, you know, used to take photographs here, and I was like, wouldn't that be funny your dad was the guy that they had tasked with taking those photos. That's funny. And I cannot find an archive for World Magazine. It turned into National Geographic kids at some point looking at trying to look up World Magazine or National Geographic World Magazine, which they kind of already are a World magazine, so it doesn't bring up anything specific enough to search through. I searched it up too.

I did a little research online after we talked, and I couldn't find anything either. And it's funny that you mentioned possibly my dad. I think I would have seen images like this if he had done a project like that. But my cousin, my dad's cousin, and my cousin, Mike, he was also a Fresno photographer, but did a lot of commercial things, so I'm wondering maybe there might be something in his archive, maybe he was tasked to do it. I don't know that they would use a local photographer, but well they might, you know, save some money.

Yeah, I'll look into that a little bit. Yeah, it could very well be. Like I assume that it just didn't make it to publication. Because I had a subscription to the magazine at that time, I never saw it. I think it's adorable, Mark, that there's a negative somewhere in the National Geographic Archive of little you in the Underground Gardens, little pudgy Me.

I was just telling So I worked with international students at Present State sometimes, and I was just telling him, one of these students that I was helping him out with some graduate work, academic graduate stuff, and he was asking me what he could do in Fresnoe before he moves away, and I mentioned underground gardens and he looked at me like what, like you know that, Like what a crazy thing for somebody to have done here. And so yeah, spreading the weird, spreading the weird. Oh we go, oh we not out. Mark, Let's start with you today. What is your weird thing that you want to talk about today?

Well, they are weird, that's for sure. And that was one of the big draws for me back then. And this was when I was eleven or twelve when it started. I believe I mentioned this as a possibility last time, and like things happen, it converged with something that was going on with this group, this musical group. Right around that time, I think I had just read that Devo were going to be at sun Dance to premiere a new documentary about them, and they were going to perform later in the week.

And so every day I would see a new little news bite on Twitter or Facebook or whatever, because I follow them on every social media, and I was like, Oh, that's interesting, it's finally happening. And I'll explain that later as to why I thought that. So, yeah, today I'm talking about Devo, one of my favorite musical acts to this day, and it's one of those you've talked about how these things come and go, and oh, yeah, there's always been a kernel of interest in the back of my head when it comes to them. It all started back when I was eleven and Whip It came out and it was like nothing I'd ever heard before. I was still listening to mostly what my parents would listen to.

I think my sister and I were starting to get into radio, you know, our own radio shows and listening to what was it KKDJ and a couple other local places, and they were back playing not just rock. It was starting to get into new waves, so you would hear the odd new wave song mixed in with a lot of the classic rock in the seventies rock and all that, and something about Whip It just got me. So I got the forty five. I really can't say when I saw the video because the video presentation of them is what really is the driving force of this. And I remember the energy domes, the turtlenecks that had cut off sleeves and black you know, it's just a weird video.

And then the and the instruments, the keep It wasn't a qatar a key tar, because I don't think those were around yet, but it was, you know, a small keyboard that one of them was just wearing like a guitar. It was fascinating to me. This is another one of those stories where over you know, that's what forty four years ago. I've always figured that I got the first three albums because by the time Whip It came out, this was on Freedom of Choice, that was their third album. They had two albums already, which I really don't think I knew anything about up until then.

I always had it in my head that I got them all at the same time for one of my birthdays. It would have had to have been actually my twelfth birthday the next year, because the album came out in May of nineteen eighty, my birthday would have already passed. But I kind of feel like I was so taken with that song that I got Freedom of Choice, and on the back of it, along with little thumbnail pictures of the band members, there were two little thumbnails of the first two albums, so there was an image of the cover of Are We Not Men? And Duty Now for the Future. Their album graphics were also very interesting, so I kind of feel like I had free the Choice, and then on my next birthday, I got the other two albums and dove right into those.

And if people don't know, and of course, nowadays with things not being really sold as albums, although I'm sure you can get all these on vinyl, they really went all out on their graphics and arn't work. So on the first album there are all these stills from videos and I was like, and this is nineteen eighty MTV is just starting, but these are from four five, six years prior to that. So all these stills, and it says on the sleeve, on the inner sleeve what it's from the truth about DA Evolution. I'm like, what is this and where do I find it? And then they have the lyrics, which is great.

Another image from the satisfaction video that they did. I wouldn't have had any way to see any of that stuff. We didn't have MTV until I was like a junior or senior in high school. It was fascinating. And then the second album, the cover had an image of the band and then all these barcodes, which were fairly new at the time, so it's barcodes and all these little squares and then an image of the band, and the image of the band you could pop out.

It was perforated like a postcard, something you don't normally see. Freedom of Choice had the first on the sleeve. It had their catalog. They had a club club devo, and you could order all this stuff. You could order the yellow suits, you could order energy domes, you could order the three D glasses, all of that.

I would sit and listen to the albums and just pour over the inner sleeves the first album and the third album, or what I really listened to back then the second album. I never quite understood why, but it didn't really work for me. I think I may have listened to it a handful of times. I popped that picture out of the album cover and have since lost it, but I'm sure I stuck it on my little tech board that I had in my room. Eventually I placed an order with the order form for the catalog, and I know that I got the three D glasses, which were just the cheap o ye which they probably bought in bulk and sold the extras, but they wore them in concert.

They wore them. They're wearing them on the album cover for Doing Now for the Future. But they would always flip it inside out and I never really cut onto that, so I just warmed the normal way. Those fell apart, and there was a button that had a girl holding balloons that said debo. It's a lenticular thing so when she close it together, they'd squished like in front of her chest.

And never bought an energy dome, never bought the yellow suit. I don't think I got what I ordered, And actually I did an episode. I talked to the guy Divo obsess So a couple of years back during the pandemic who is basically their archivist and their main roady and stuff when they tour and does all this other work for the band, and he was like, yeah, it was notoriously bad, like people never got what they ordered, and it's like, so when I took over, I was not going to let that happen. So if you order something, now you get what you ordered. And yeah, they had trading cards.

I think I got those, but those are lost to time. If I did, that's amazing. I was when I first heard Devo. My dad introduced them to me. My dad used to have a pretty cool record collection.

I think he still has some of those records. But I remember mixing them up with craft Work a little bit because the same sort of conceptual approach to album cover art and and identifying a kind of aesthetic and sticking to it. Really kind of I connected craft Work and Devo in that regard, but I had no idea there was such a kiss like marketing aspect to Devo marketing to the fans, having a catalog mail away stuff like I mean, I was, I was younger, than you in experiencing DeVos, So I wasn't thinking about it in that way. But what a cool thing. And I love Devo too, And I'm not as much of a fan as you are in that I don't have that kind of nostalgic connection to them, like deep nostalgic connection, but I love them, and I'm so glad that the Devo Archivist was it Michael?

Is it Michael. I'm so glad he's still working with them and working with uh and still promoting the Devot the Devot thing. Yeah, and we'll get into some of the recent stuff later, but yeah, the idea of them performing in costumes basically that all match that they change during the show. They've gotten I'm reading a book or just finished reading a book that I bought a while back, one of the current things that I got from them. That's a back to back book, so you flip it over and start again.

So one site's called the Brand, Divo the Brand, and the other one is Devot. Oh shoot, I can't remember. I'll have to squeeze that in here with my robot. The other half is called Devo Unmasked. A lot of the articles that are reprinted there mentioned that Kiss like thing and how it's done very differently between the two bands, almost like a cynical thing with Kiss more or like.

But there was that tight control, and that's what they liked about Kiss is We're going to control our stuff. All the stuff they sold through catalogs was them doing it, not Warner Brothers, who is the label that they were on for a number of years. And this stuff like the perforated image, they weren't going to do. And Gerald Cassali, who's kind of the leader, the business leader of the band, really said well how much would it cost to do that? And they're like an additional ten cents an album.

They're like, well, take it out of our earnings. And they did something similar with Oh No, It's Devo later on where the back popped out like a picture frame. I had had a folded thing you could put out and then like stand it up, which I did because as I looked through my albums the other day, I noticed that the perforation was all split. I had done it that way, but just even printing the catalog itself in the inner sleeve and all that stuff costs extra money printing lyrics because you have to print your own lyrics, you have to go through the publishing company. Most of their not all of them.

Freedom of Choice and New Traditionalists do not print the lyrics, which I'm going to get to, because there are some confusing stuff in those. They were willing to do all that stuff, and a lot of the things that they did on tour, they paid for anything that they made through the music got put back into the band. I love that their philosophy was the other thing that really intrigued me. Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Is something that I never quite understood until decades later when the Internet came around, but you could sort of suss out bits and pieces of it.

So songs like Jockohomo for Sure, Mongoloid from the first album Gates of Steel on Freedom of Choice have these strange references to apes and evolution and de evolution, And as a kid growing up in a Christian home, I understood the concept of evolution, so de evolution I could kind of figure out, Okay, well, then that means like we're turning back into apes. It was frustrating because on the first album, are We not meant we are Devo the song Jockohomo, which means ape man. Supposedly, there's a bridge section of the song that the lyrics are not printed for, so I would sit there and just be like, well, what are they talking about? They're talking about apes, but I can't make out a lot of what he's saying.

It's it's kind of rapid fire singing, and then they go back into the calm response and it just never quite clicked with me. And the same with Gates of Steel. That album didn't have the lyrics at all. And again the bridge mentions apes, the ape regards his tail, like I could figure out that part, and I'm like, what, you know, what is all this? And it's funny because when I was younger, I had caught onto this rumor that they were Mormon.

And I don't know where it came from. That's interesting, and I don't know where I heard it, but my best friend Ricky, who I'd mentioned on the show, he was Mormon, and he had actually just moved back to or his family had moved back to Provo, Utah, and so we wrote letters while he was you know, shortly after he moved away for a while, and I remember writing that to him, like, oh, hey, I heard that Divo were Mormon, and I had just mentioned to you that we had cleared out our rafters and I found those notes and the one on top was His response was like, yeah, I don't think they're more. But later on I found out that they used to perform. They used to open for themselves as a dove the Band of Love, which was a spoof of an evangelical wow, And I'm like, maybe that's where it tumbled down from.

And I somehow, like the game of Telephone, it came down to this, you know, oh yeah, this they're religious in some way, which is totally not the case at all. Oh my god, I think that is so brilliant that they would open up for themselves as a different band. I've never heard of such a thing. How did I not know that that they were doing that. That's really friggin cool and hilarious.

I believe there's a full performance on YouTube you can look at. I'm gonna look that up, The Band of Love. I love that so much. That makes me happy. I mean the idea when a band takes what they do so seriously that they create, they create a world around themselves and they adhere to it strictly, but they're not too serious about it.

They're able to take us, take the philosophy and use a little bit of humor in there and mess with these larger ideas of the human dilemma and mess with the audience too. I mean, the idea of having a fake band open up for you that's actually you. It's very very Andy Kaufman asks, and he comes up in some interviews and mostly from the interviewers, but you hit on something that comes up a lot with them and has come up in the reading that I've done, you know, as an adult about them that serious but not serious. Yes, and it's something that really frustrated audiences and critics about them that they're spouting all this philosophy, but are they taking it seriously or are they not. Part of their thing was railing against corporate America, which includes record companies, and from their earliest video compilations, they would always have skits about big music and this character named Rod Ruter and how he was like this sleazy an R guy or PR guy or whatever trying to get them to do all this stuff.

Yet they're in the game. Yeah, So it's like, you know, and they are conscious of that, and they say, well, what else do you do if you're a band? Because they didn't start out necessarily to become a band. They were art students at Kent State in the early seventies and would see each other stuff around campus and then finally met Jerry and Mark, the leads of the group, Jerry Cassally and Mark mother's law, and liked what each other was doing, and so they started doing stuff together, you know, stuff like stickers and not graffiti necessarily, but things that would get posted around campus that one or the other would see. And so then they started doing that stuff together.

And they were both musical and had been taught you know, music growing up, and that just sort of became a part of the bigger hole. And then the shootings at Kent State happened, and Jerry Cassally was there and two of the people that were murdered by the National Guard were friends of him, and that became the impetus of the group of them starting to perform and this anger that came out and the philosophy of de evolution, which they took from this book called the Beginning was the End, which had come out in seventy one that put forth this ridiculous theory that we're descended from brain eating apes. These different lines of apes would battle and the ones that would win would eat the other apes brains, and this therefore eating brains, as we all know, makes you smarter.

And so their brains were growing and growing too much and causing pain in their skulls, and it led to like a larger sex drive and the loss of natural esp he and all this other goofy stuff. So that that was one of the things that you know, as I say, when when I listened to Jockohomo or Gates of Steel, these references to apes and God that's spud boys and potatoes and all this other weird stuff, you know. And they're always singing about themselves the name of the bands and the music a lot which you don't normally hear. And then the Jockohomo thing comes from an anti evolution religious tract called Jockohomo Heaven Bound that was published in the twenties back around the Scopes trial. And you know, everybody taking that idea of we descended from apes as opposed to coming from a common ancestor, right, you know, we didn't come from no ape, God made man.

So that's where part of that Jockohomo Bridge comes from. So those ideas being put forth like that, and the idea of where we are as a society. Even back in the seventies, when I read a lot of the interviews and stuff, I'm like, well, nothing's changed, it's only getting worse, and I think we'll get too later. Is that that's sort of why they came back as strongly as they did, because those ideas are more prevalent now that we're regressing as a society. That's what they're predicting in the early eighties when they emerge on the same in response to everything that's going around them.

That's the punk aspect of Devo. It's like this part of humanity is fucked up. In fact, basically we're regressing on a daily basis, and the idea of you know this, I love that you brought up this, the concept of the brain eating apes, because it's like, I feel like we're just a few steps away from absurd concepts like this re emerging in us glomming onto them or factions of us glomming onto them. Not only does what you're talking about right now with Devo, and they're the origin of the band, and what drove them and what their rebellion was all about relate directly to what I'm going to be talking about today. But also I just discovered this other newer band called Viagra Boys.

They're from Sweden. Their commentary about contemporary society is very similar. They have a song called Troglodite, which is about this kind of regression and human behavior and wanting to go out there and kill and not understand the whole album that that song is on. It's about. It's about how complicated and unfortunate the world is, for belief, for for not believing in certain ideas that certain factions have come up with, like fears of vaccines and stuff like this flat earth.

The flat earth that's a regression. Talk about a regression. Oh yeah, I mean it's it's insane. So this kind of Devo is, you know, and I know you're going to talk about it a little bit, but I feel like the time for Devo was then, but it's still now. And how wonderful for the band and for what the band represents in a way, because that means people are listening to them still and again, and maybe new listeners too, but also what does that say about us?

That's a whole other conversation. You mentioned the eighties, but this was even before that, because a lot of what was there talking about is the Vietnam waraix and this idea that people would rather be told what to do them to figure stuff out for themselves. It's easier to just go, oh, okay, And that's what the song Freedom of Choice is about. Yep, you know, which does come out in nineteen eighty, but the seeds of that were already there. And that idea that as they are protesting Nixon going into Cambodia, that's what the Kent State thing was about.

That's what they were resisting against. And to be shot and have four people killed because of that, that is backwards. Well a lot of that stuff. I didn't know about them until years later. I didn't know that they were at Kent State at that time.

I knew about Kent State, I didn't know that they were there at the same time. I didn't know that that was an inciting factor to create the project. Once they hit the radio, you don't know what the catalyst for them, Yeah, I mean, nobody would know. Yeah, you don't know that at the release of their first album would know. It's not political in that way of Creden's Clearwater Revival or some of the other sixties bands who have protest songs.

Theirs are about more about people like mongoloid. It's not about people with down syndrome. It's about a guy who's just a normal guy. He just toes the line and goes to work every day, brings home the bacon. It's about working a nine to five job, and all that stuff was interesting to me.

There's a song, too Much Paranoia is on the first album that talks about Big Max and it has part of the Burger king jingle from back then in the song, and I knew that song, and so that was like, why are they singing this burger king jingle? But they did stuff like that, and they incorporated things, and they took stuff which is I'll get too later on as part of their esthetic as well. A lot of the symbol and little images that would pop up on all the albums that I couldn't explain, didn't known what it was in reference to, but I was fascinating, you know. When I got those first three albums, that was nineteen eighty one, I only had like six months or so to wait for the next album because they released between seventy eight and eighty two.

They released an album every year right around the same time of the year too, usually in the fall. So New Traditionalists came out again. Interesting cover. Now they've got these plastic pompadoor hairdews. Oh yeah, different kind of outfit.

Totally into that, look into the vibe of the album itself, and it's not as good as Freedom of Choice, but it was still solid. So I was like, oh man, three out of four ain't bad. Barely listened to Duty Now for the Future. And then the next year, Oh No It's debo came out and I was still very much interested. But that was sort of the cutoff point for me because the album was not nearly as good.

They were really straying away from any kind of rock sound because there was always a strong rock sound still because Bob won Mark's brother Bob mothers Baw strictly played guitar, so there was always guitar in there as much synthesizer as there was, there was always a strong guitar sound. It's virtually gone from Oh No, It's Stevo and then after that it's just all and it's not even really Mogue synthesizers. From then on, it's just like it sounds like Cassio. They were using the fair light, but it becomes uninspired and uninteresting music to me at that point. And the only other thing that really came about from that is that they appeared on a show called Square Pigs shortly after the album was released, And Square Pigs is a show that I watched and enjoyed a lot back then, very new wave kids.

Sarah Jessica Parker was on it, one of her early roles, and so they were going to be on and I was super excited, and I want to say there was something happened locally here that made it not play like it was playing. But then there was an emergency alerting or something happened, because I remember I didn't see it for a while. I think I had to catch it on repeat later on, being really disappointed that I didn't catch it. So that's sort of where at that point in eighty two, I didn't really pay attention to what they were doing. After that came back to stuff years later, which is what I'll get to in the second part when I told you what I was going to do.

You had offered up one thing, which I'm sure you'll do at some point. I was like, Oh, we're both going to do music. That's great, and then you changed it. And when you changed it, I was like, Oh, this makes a lot of sense. These work well together.

Ape has never killed ape, let alone an ape child in the spirit of de evolution or re evolution or re evolution, and you know, subversive commentary on the problems of the human race. And I know you and I share a deep respect for and appreciation of the Planet of the Apes movies, the original films. Beware the beast Man, for he is the devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. I mean, I also, I'm going to talk about this a little bit, but I also love the television series, which is essentially the same episode just on repeat.

Yeah, I threw out Planet of the Apes and you were like that perfect. That makes so much sense because we're essentially talking about we're both going to be addressing this concept of the complications of the concept of de evolution from or evolving from apes, or or evolving back into apes and we're all troglodite minded essentially, and so yeah, Planet of the Apes. Now, my first experience with Planet of the Apes was the was seeing images or advertisements in catalogs or magazines. It was part of you know, I would see an image of Cornelius or general Ursus. I can't even identify where I first saw these images, but it became like, oh, that's just something that exists out there.

Until I was at I was visiting a family member's house and the television series was on. So I never saw the original Planet of the Apes film until I made the decision to see it as a young adult that was probably sixteen or something like that. I saw the I saw the television series at a relatives house and I was just immediately drawn in. There was something about the terrifying gorillas. It just terrified me as a kid, as a young kid.

You've you've talked about this before and other maybe Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the wake up heavy episode you talked about midsommer correct or was that with a with another I've talked about it with Cleo with Cleo watched it. That's what it was. It was a recent a more recent episode of You and Cleo talking about midsommer and the day horror or horror that takes place in the middle of the day in the sun was what drew me into Planet of the Apes. At first, those scenes in the television show. It's very dry the show, the landscape is sent is California, dry grassy fields and like locations are very similar to the foothills around here in central California, and most of the scenes are taking place in the middle of the day.

Apes against humans or apes against apes, or humans against humans. There's something about that, that kind of that kind of terrifying experience happening in the middle of the day that really moved me. And it probably moved me because you and I live in an area where the summers are dry and bright and and oppressive, so you combine that with this imagery of of people, and it really stuck with me. When I finally got around to seeing the original Planet of the Apes film, already having had some experience with the Twilight Zone and that kind of storytelling, the Rod Serling written script really struck a chord with me. The music is perfect, the right word.

Soundtracks to films really really matter, and I think if a film takes that aspect seriously, it shows and it lasts, and the soundtrack, the way the film looks, Charlton Heston's over the top performance. You know, this is something that I can't quite understand. You have this very you know at the time nineteen sixty eight, when the first film comes out, the special effects makeup is like cutting edge. You know, you look at that now or if I you know, when I looked at it when I was fifteen sixteen, and then when I was younger, watching it when I was younger, I was just like taken in by immediately. It's convincing.

But watching it as a as a as a teen, I was like, this is and the teen who's obsessed with special effects makeup like it's not good. It's not good makeup, really, you don't think so I still am convinced by it, and I just watched the four sequels the other day there the last couple of weeks. So you're you're you're touching on exactly where I'm headed with this. It's the makeup techniques are archaic, but there's something that's convincing. I can't quite put my finger on it.

It's the acting. I mean, there are moments when they are talking, or they're they're in the characters are having emotional moments or yelling or or or exasperated where they're blowing the cheeks out and you can see the teeth of the human inside of all the ape. And this is the part that's that's perplexing to me. And I need contemporary filmmakers to look at this, and I know that some of them are, but maybe not all of them. And we're going to talk about the Newer Planet of the Apes movies in a little bit.

There is something utterly convincing about this makeup that looks like somebody who knows how to how to create special effects makeup. But there this is done by somebody who's maybe still learning or the special effects makeup have it hasn't hasn't evolved, that the use of foam latex hasn't become what it became in the eighties. And and it's, uh, it's not great, but utterly convincing. Absolutely, I'm watching these apes talk to one another. Their mouths aren't moving the way around the words the way they should, but the acting is there.

It's so it's such an amazing experience and every to this day, every single time I watch any of those first films, what is there five of them, plus plus the television show, I am absolutely drawn in. It's not just the So it's not about what we see on the surface, right, It's about the acting. It's about the storytelling. And these are these films are addressing serious issues. The first ones about the fear of nuclear disaster.

I mean, the second one where you discover these mutant humans living under the surface that worship the nuclear bomb, glory b to the bomb and to the holy fallout as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be world without end. That's amazing. And then you get into Escape from Planet of the Apes where Zerra and Cornelius go back in time to this like corrupt human you know world, and they're at first they're they're taken in, and then they're treated horribly and then they're killed. I mean, it's like, this is amazing storytelling, and it's the terror is all in the daytime. It is all right out in front of you.

There's no mysterious monster, cgi monster in the shadows here. This is all like this is all in your face, plastic monkey faces and it's all convincing, and it gets even more complicated and interesting because Cornelius and Zerra's son Caesar becomes the leader of the New World, and then it all becomes this cyclical thing where we're all products of ourselves, you know, and I love that. And by the end of the run of those first five films, we're back, you know, in the era of or close to back in the era when Charlton Heston shows up, right, But are we the human race? It's like the nineties, Yeah, the human in the hust One. Yeah, the human race has already made their huge mistakes and the Ape civilization is becoming the more intel or powerful civilization.

There's still quite a bit of time between that and a lot of time. Yeah, from what I remember, it's like thirty seven to fifty five, the year that they land on the planet of the Apes in the first film. And yeah, basically when Zerra and Cornelius go back in nineteen seventy three or seventy two or whatever. You know, I got one thing, the Serling script you mentioned, and I'm in the past, and recently, because I knew you were doing this, I have looked up what his involvement was and I don't think much of his script actually survived. That doesn't surprise me.

He went with how the book was presented, and I don't know if you've ever read the solvel. Yeah, I'm going to get into that where it's very much a futuristic society it is. Yeah, yeah, there's modern technology in that book. And I thought, you know, it's kind of smart that they didn't go that route, because I think the end that at least they go within the in the movie, or maybe the surprise that this is Earth wouldn't play out as as strongly as it does, because why would they have like TV? You know, why would they have the same technology as what you had left?

Basically? And I know they did it for cost reasons, but that's one thing that always flummexed me when I watched the movies. Was okay that this is the future and their advanced apes, but the only real technology they have is guns. Yeah, yeah, it's strange. They have no electric there's no electricity, there's no anything motorized in this.

They can make bullets, they can make bullet ends, and so I yeah, when I read the book, I was twenty four, twenty three twenty four, and you and I kind of have always come together on this. It's like the Planet of the Apes imagery, the Migo figures, like everything that, everything that Planet of the Apes represents comes back heavily. I know for both of us, we both are very attracted to the art of the Planet of the Apes. And so when I when I was about twenty four, I guess I was getting back into it. I bought all the movies and they were kind of the films were being re released I think on DVD, and I bought the television series.

I don't remember when all that became available again. But then I read the book. I ordered the book, and I read the book and I was like, oh, yeah, I see. I see what the author, Pierre Boulet Bulah, was saying and how and why someone would want to turn that into a film. But I there's part of me that kind of prefers, even though it's weird that the only technology that exists is the guns, I kind of prefer the storyline of the first film over the book.

But it's you know, the book. In the book, the same system exists. The orangutans are the politicians, the chimpanzees are the scientists, the gorillas are the officers, and the humans are the devolved, speechless creatures, enslaved creatures that are in the first film. You mentioned some of the heavy stuff that gets brought up in these films, and slavery and race relations are another thing. We're very big in nineteen sixty eight.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, and Battle Conquest of and Escape from End Conquest of our deep civil rights films. They're really powerful representations of what we were thinking about, what we should have been thinking about, how we're treating each other. And this is by the time those movies come out, it's seventy one and seventy I got them dates. There're seventy one and seventy two. In rewatching them every not every eight years or so, I'll rewatch them.

And every time I rewatch them, and I know you recently rewatched these films too with Cleo. Every time I rewatch them, I'm reminded of how slow our progress has been as human beings. We are problematic creatures and we are slow learning. We straight up forget, I mean, that's that's how problematic we are. We forget about what were the mistakes we've made.

And I I just ask that modern politicians should be watching the original Planet of the Apes films. How hard to get it. They wouldn't get it. How hard it wouldn't get it, And I wouldn't get it. It's how hard it wouldn't get the message.

Ryan, I'm not but here here's the deal. I'm not very smart. I get the message right, and so they be on the side of the politicians in the movie. Yeah, to take the Apes out. That ape can't survive, We can't.

It's this Caesar can't survive or Milo as he's called. Fear wins. Fear always wins, like human beings. They just it's the same message. The Divot was presenting the exact same message.

Yeah, it's easier to to just give into your fear and eliminate the scary and try to move on with blinders on. That's that's what Divo is talking about. In fact, that's like, that's what a lot of bands in the late seventies and early eighties punk bands that were talking about society as a dystopian dilemma. You know, a snake eating its own tail. There's no escape.

I mean a lot of these problems are in science fiction. They're in our music, and yet yet it's hard for us to see all that and listen to it. I mean, for a band like VIAGRAA Boys to be talking about the same problems that are in Planet of the Apes and are in the or in the lyrics of divo songs, and VIAGRAA Boys have only been around for like five years or something like that, it's like for them to be making that same commentary today. I mean, I'm happy those songs exist because Viagara Boys is a great band, but it's a little it's so disappointing that these are the same issues that we've been battling. It makes for good art, but it's also sad, you know.

But yeah, I have more to talk about regarding Planet of the Apes and my obsession with the esthetic of Planet of the Apes, which we'll get to in a little bit here. I saw the movies on TV over the years. They played constantly on Channel twenty six, and I know at one point, probably when I was in my later teens, I remember seeing I don't know if they played all five, but they played most of them like one day. They would do that every once in a while in twenty six, where it was just Planet of the apes, and that was probably the first time that I had seen all of the sequels and found the ideas of the sequels actually a little more interesting coming back. You know, how it becomes like you say, cyclical, where now was this the original instigating thing that they come back and then all this starts, and then there's the disease, the plague that kills off all the dogs and cats and they become chattel, and you know, it's very intriguing ideas maybe not presented, not that they're campy, but I think the budgets decreased as the mood as the series went on.

So I know on the second one, most of the apes in the background are just wearing masks, yep, Latex masks, which is fine. I've never really considered the makeup anything other than amazing. Yes, you can see their teeth sometimes, and the mountains don't move. They're acting with their eyes for the most part. That's exactly it.

That's why it works the act. That's how you get the emotion, because otherwise it's just layers and layers of latex. Yep. It's it's that design that struck me. It's that design that when I saw the Migo figures in the store.

I was like, and I still I'll get into this in a later episode some day, but like, why did I never have those? Yeah? Because I loved them, And yes, the head sculpts on those just took hold. I don't know, because I know I saw them in stores. I saw them at Long Drugs, Yeah, and never got them.

General Ursus in particular, he doesn't show up until the second film, but there's a version of Gorilla officers in the first one that he his his image. I don't know if I saw him in comic the back pages of comic books, or if I saw him somewhere, but his visage was deeply intriguing to me. I mean, I've always been fascinated by gorillas, but there there's something about General Ursus in particular that just really I just love. Yeah exactly Mark is showing me right now and the Migo Ursus, the recent Migo Ursus, and uh, it's just special. The costume design, the structure of the appliances on the the their clothes even and ye, his helmet, his helmet, the yeah, the the makeup, the helmet, the fur, and it's all good.

And it really comes down to the expression of the eyes of the actors too. I think they make a big mistake in the second movie though, by showing a couple of them in asana so that they're in big y suits. That is a questionable effect, I'll give you that. Yeah, there are there are a lot of those kind of mistakes in the films, and when you have a lower budget and the budget as you said, I was looking at the budgets last night and I was like, oh, yeah, it really decreases substantially. But also those later films rely more on storytelling.

I mean that's right there at the very beginning, to be honest with you, but it does sort of become more about the commentary or the storyline than it does about the special effects as the films progress. But yeah, general ers this man and I can't I can't put my finger on where I first saw his face, but definitely probably I can probably just say it was comic books somewhere back. Well, they did have I think Marvel had a Planet of the Apes series. That's true, they did. I don't remember.

I know I saw a couple episodes of the show, and then there was the cartoon as well, But I, oh, yeah, the cartoon. I didn't really watch them or catch them on a regular basis. I didn't watch the old series with Cleo, just the new one, which we can talk about later. But because I've put it to her a number of times, like, hey, let's watch the Planet of the Apes. Oh, you were watching the news series?

Okay, yeah, yeah, no, the the I watched all four of the sequels. I didn't watch the first one again because I'm pretty sure I saw it. TCM plays it all the time, and I watched it recently, and she's seen most of the first one, and I'm like, there's four more she has expressed zero interest in. But maybe now we watched the new series, we'll go back and watch those. Yeah, we'll talk about that later.

Yeah, I got more to say about the new series. We shall build our own cities, in which there will be no place for humans except to serve our friends, and we shall found our own hobbies, our own religion, our own dynasty. At that day, it's upon you. Hello, this is Demo. What's next for you?

Well, like I mentioned, I became less interested in the new stuff after the disappointment of Oh no, it's Devo. By this time, going to the record store, if not Warehouse in Fashion Fair. Maybe I'm hitting the old Tower Records from time to time with my sister and I'd always go over there and look under d and see what was happening. So I remember seeing the cover for their next album, Shout, and I don't even know if I've heard any songs off that album, to be honest with you. I would see the one after that, Smooth Noodle Maps, which I believe was their last.

By that time, the drummer had left because they were basically replacing him with drum machine and electronic drums, and he was like, I think that's one regret that they have, especially Gerald Cassal, because anytime they talk about Alan Myers passed away, I think in twenty thirteen, they're like, you know, he was amazing. He was the human metronome, and we blew it by replacing him with electronic drums. And then I would see they would do as Warner Brothers or any other record company likes to do with back catalogs, is release compilations. So they released Devo's Greatest Hits, Devo's Greatest Misses, and I would see all that stuff and look at it. There would be live albums.

There was one called Now It Can Be Told, which used an image which I didn't know at the time from the cover of that book. The beginning was the end that talks about the brain eating apes. I saw that it's a live album and I'm like, WHOA wow, what is this image? It was still kind of capturing me with stuff. I still had my albums, which I do to this day, and I would listen to them every once in a while because I had a dingy little record player.

I remember, like when the hardcore Devo volumes came out, they had really kind of graphic covers for the time, but I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what that meant, and now I know that it was early stuff, demos and things that they had recorded pre first album, and just I never bought anything. The only thing I bought, and I don't remember when I got this, was a little EP cassette of Divo live from their nineteen eighty tour and it has like I think six songs on it, and the version of Planet Earth that's on this they changed the lyrics and I found out later on that they would do this in most cities. They would gear it toward the city that they were performing in, but they were kind of naughty lyrics.

So the song of the album is pretty straightforward, and Jerry sings it on the album, Mark sings it in concert for whatever reason. But they're in San Francisco, so they say something like I knew a girl from San Francisco who's boyfriend ad er Hole and stuff like that. And then there's another version on the live DVD that I got later where they're in Pedaluma, so they rhymes something raunchy with Pedaluma. I just remember thinking, oh, you know, this is how interesting. They're not a vocative.

Yeah, I've told this story before, but on Wickup Heavy in reference to Motel Hell and seeing the commercial for that, and I always think that these happened on the same day. But I at my grandparents' house and vi Celia we would go quite often because my dad had his nursery side business stuff out there, and I was taking a break and I caught a preview of a Divo video that I didn't know anything about. And this was obviously in like eighty eighty one eighty two, where they're dressed up they've got these weird masks, talk about masks. They were really in masks and wore them while performing regularly. They had these weird alien esque masks on and some kind of weird red fabric or yellow fabric with devo de slash.

Since there's five of them, and it always looked like they were floating over like flames and fire. I thought, Oh, they're in a hell or something. I didn't get to see what it was. I had to go back outside and work again or whatever. So years later, I want to say this was at my friend Steven's house, rented one of their numerous video compilations, because it seemed like they just re released them constantly when there would be new videos to add to it.

So this was probably the complete truth about de Evolution, which included all the stuff that they had done before they had a record contract, before anything. They were making videos before MTV was a thing. I love that. I mean other bands were doing stuff like that. There were promo videos over they showed them to, but you know they were late night thing like night Flight and other places that would show videos.

So it would basically go in chronological order from that earliest stuff that was basically demo recordings that they made videos for all the way up to whatever. The most recent thing was Doctor Detroit. Their theme from Doctor Detroit, which is another one that's never really and I finally saw the Freedom of Choice video and I'm like, Oh, that's what that's from. It's what you got you. There's all these professional skateboarders in it, and you know a lot of their videos are kind of cheesy, and of course, other than whip It, most of them are shot on video, so they've got that very dated look.

And I was like, Oh, that's where that's from. But it brought up another weird connection is kind of mind boggling to me still. They were in Neil Young's film Human Highway What And I'm like, why, what's the connection between them and Neil Young? And I guess he was just one of those guys that really enjoyed what they were putting out there. Wow.

And that's how they got their first album produced by Brian Ino. Because David Bowie had seen them and was a huge fan. He was going to produce their first album. It didn't work out, he had to do others. Kind of glad he didn't.

Whenever I think of that, I think of Transformer from Lou Reed and how yeah, that sounds so much like a like a David Bowie album. Yep, yep. I guess Neil Young just liked what they were doing. I found out years later that Russ never sleeps. He actually took from them.

They created that slogan for Restolium back in their Akron days when they weren't so that was one of their side gigs, was doing ADVERTI tizing stuff and they had like a little print shop and they did rubber stamps and all this stuff, and they created that slogan and then Neil Young's like, hey, can I use that? And they're like, yeah, whatever, that's cool that they never made that connection. I still have yet to see Human Highway. I've seen bits and pieces of it, and I've seen their performances in it. I've heard it's not very good.

That's amazing. So then modern era Facebook rolls around. I'm on there, I, you know, find the stuff that I like, and I believe it was probably Devo Obsesso first, who I found on there before Divo had an actual presence on Facebook. So then I'd kind of find out about newer stuff and at some point realized, oh, there's this live DVD out from nineteen eighty. I bought that it's really really good performance, and on that were a lot of the songs from that second album that never really clicked with me.

Hearing and seeing them performed live, I'm like, oh, these are great songs. Years later, with further reading, realized it was the mix. They never liked the mix. The producer. They had practiced all this stuff to where they could perform it live, and during the recording he had them record all their parts separately, so that was part of it.

So they lose that vibe of the live performance playing together in a studio. And also the mix is very strange, and it's just kind of dull, and the guitars are always low in the mix, and they really work great live. And so I was pursuing other stuff when I bought this early video compilation called The Men Who Make the Music. I kept seeing that one pop up, and it had, according to what I was reading online, the full performance or the full film in the begin was the end the truth about Devolution, which had been the stills that were on the first album. I'm like, oh, well, I need to get that because finally I want to see that in total.

So I bought a VHS off eBay that was I think it was still shrink wrapped and in great condition, and played it and got to see that. And there's a bunch of other live performances from around the time of the second album, which showed me again how good these songs are live. So I enjoy the second album now a lot more than I did as a kid. Still some of the songs are not really favorites. But and then in I think two thousand and nine, so they had performed at Coachella and Lollapalooza and stuff in the late nineties early two thousands, and we're kind of on that comeback swing already.

So they re released the first and the third albums, which are my favorites, in this deluxe edition, with two CD of the albums and then a little a live show and a shorter DVD of the videos from those two albums. So I bought that. It came with a poster. It came with a little forty five of I Think Jockohomo and Satisfaction. And then shortly thereafter they released the second and the fourth albums, but not combined, just as remasters, and I bought those, and so it was kind of like, oh, you know, I'm back, I'm back into this.

I didn't really listen to them because I only had the albums. I never had tapes when my car just had a tape player, and so now I could listen to the CDs again. I put them on my phone at some point, and because of Facebook, I and Michael Pilmer and Debo websess, so I'd found out you know, Oh, they do this convention pretty much every year called a devotional where fans go out to I believe Ohio and or maybe Virginia where he lives. I think he's the Virginia for one year or the first two hundred people that bought tickets, they were going to give them a Turkey Monkey bank yep. And so I remember seeing that, going, wow, that's the cool.

You know. Obviously, I'm not flying to Akron to go to this thing just so I can get a turn. But Turkey Monkey is one of those images that on the inner sleeves of the albums and on other promotional stuff throughout the years that always really intrigued me. And I thought for a long time that it was a little I knew it was a collage. I thought it was a collage of a little monkey face inside of a key fob.

You know those, Oh yeah, the kind of fake they maybe rolled other ones, but they're sort of circular on top, and they're got stitching all around it. I kind of shaped like a light bulb. Yeah, I know ye're talking, but yeah. So I thought it was that with a little monkey face on it over an image of a turkey, and it's not. I found out again years later because of the Internet or because of the books I had bought, that it's an image of one of the monkeys that was sent into space, and it's the monkey's spacesuit.

It's around his head and his little head's poken out. And so Mark mothers Law took that image from Time magazine and pasted it on top of a turkey lacer package that you just buy it this you can still buy them. I've lipked them up. So it's got an image of a turkey and it's got the metal things that poked through with the string on them. And so that he had mashed those two together and created this turkey monkey image.

And so how whenever I got heavy into it again in like twenty twenty twenty twenty one, I remembered that turkey monkey thing and I contacted Devo Obsesso about it. I was like, this never came out in a regular edition because it was supposed to have. Do you have any information on that? And he's like, yeah, no, it's one of those things that may or may not ever happen. I'm like, well, if you have any extras, man, I'd really love to get one.

So he did and I got one, and I think it might be one of the greatest things I've ever owned in my entire life. I remember when you got that and you showed that to me. I was like, that is phenomenal. It's an amazing sculpt that hits the image like exactly and then convertse it because you don't see the back of the monkey or the turkey on the image. They really killed it on that.

It's so cool. And if gun to my head, I had to pick five things of mine or I could never see my family again, I'd miss them a great deal. But if I had to pick five things and the rest were going to burn in a house fire, this would be one of the things that I would keep. Yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent. It's just somebody tried to buy it off me recently and I was like, noop, noop, Yeah, don't get rid of that.

Got big dollars and I'm like, no, you went through a lot to get that. I mean, not only not only is it something that you that resonates with you because you like Devo, but it's also the process of finding one and getting it and the conversations around it and everything like That's that's something that's a real investment. It's one of those things you put in your ope, the houses on fire bag of things to grab it really is. I mean, I would definitely try and grab it if I could. Yeah, it's just so bizarre and that it got turned into a piece of plastic.

Yeah, it's brilliant. And you know, his teeth are slightly open so you can shove your coins in there and as a coin bank, and it's amazing. I definitely I'll be using that image for promo stuff for this episode so people know what the heck I'm talking about. That's right. I mentioned earlier hearing about the documentary that's coming out or that came out premiered at Sundance.

So during this time previous to this previous to the pandemic and maybe even all the way back to like when these deluxe editions of the albums came out. There was supposed to be a documentary coming soon, and I saw like the Kickstarter campaign on Facebook and didn't contribute to it because I never quite trust those things and was really excited about that, and I think that kind of got me down the path of like trying to find books and other things that I could get to clear up some of this information that had always intrigued me as a kid that I never fully understood. And so I think I followed them on Facebook as well. They had their own page, and you know, people are always bugging them, when's this coming out, what's the updates, the what's the news?

Basically forgot about it after a while. I think it was supposed to be called are We Not Men? That's a good name for this episode. Yeah, well I have a better name, but that does work too. I we'll talk about it.

So at some point the last thing I had seen, and this was probably before I talked to Michael Pilmer, it had been squashed basically, and here this is anecdotal. This is rumor that Mark Mothersbaw was stopping it from being released. Oh interesting, they have that posted on their IMDb page for the movie, where somebody has posted it in the trivia. So when I had seen this news, I'm like, oh, is that is that? What this is?

Did they clear it up or did they finally get rid of the parts that he didn't like or I don't know what, no idea, it's all speculation. Apparently it's not the same documentary. So this documentary is just called Devo and it's directed by Chris Smith. And that name might not ring a bell right off the top of your head because it sounds mixed to metaphors. There.

He is the director of American movie. Oh god, it's pronounced covin man. What else could be pronounced covin, that's the proper pronunciation. No, no, no, no, no no no. Covin sounds like oven man, and that's just it doesn't work.

Yes, all right, so I'm on board. He also was involved in that Tiger King show on Netflix, which I oh, yeah, that was pretty good. I watched it, Yeah, a couple other pretty well regarded documentaries. Yeah, so I was like, ooh cool, that bumps my interest up. So then I started the reviews from Sundance started coming out, so I was reading those.

I'm like, Okay, I'm seeing good stuff. And then the last one I read kind of put a little bit of a damper on that because apparently it's just them. There are no talking heads in the film other than the surviving band members, And I'm like, that's really odd. Why would you Why would you not talk to like the members of Blondie, who they've always had a really nice relationship with and I know that they're friendly with and Chris Stein from Blondie has taken dozens and dozens of pictures of them overly than decades. I mean, he took pictures when they performed together, all the way to currently.

Why would you not talk to them? Why would you not talk to the producers of the albums? Right? Why would you not talk to contemporaries? And so I find that really odd because I've seen interviews with them as I go down that rabbit hole, and they're available on YouTube, and they're interesting, but they all kind of end up being the same.

They talk about the Kent State stuff, they talk about the album stuff, they talk about the problem with Warner Brothers, they talk about the dissolution of the band, they talk about the coming back. It just if it's just going to be more of that, it's probably not going to present anything really new or enlightening to people that already follow the band. So that's disappointing. Yeah, but will I watch it still? Of course, Yeah, I'm going to watch it.

I am. Maybe they've decided to do it that way so that there's there aren't people interpreting what they've done, and they're more telling their story as if it's autobiographical. So it's an interesting approach. Yeah, but that becomes I mean, that's what this book is that I have that I mentioned ear. It's it's just them.

It's Mark, Bob, and Jerry, three surviving band members talking about stuff, mostly Mark and Jerry, mostly Jerry. And it's like, yeah, I've heard all this, and the old interviews say a lot of what the new interviews say, and I don't know, it seems odd to me. That seems a little too self contained. Yeah, I agree, And that's actually the problem with a lot of autobiographies anyways. If it's too self contained, you're telling your own story.

How invested is the person writing their autobiography In perspective taking. I mean, they could have talked to Tony Basil, who Jerry dated for a while and worked on some of their videos. They I mean, it's just like, really, there's all they have connections. Talk to Neil Young, I mean, why did he Why was he interested? Instead of Jerry telling me why, I want Neil Young to tell me why they connected?

There you go, yeah, get straight, go straight to the source. I don't need to hear about the troubles of the first album recording with Brian Eno from them again, I'd ever heard it from them, Yeah, Or weird trips to see rich Richard Branson in Jamaica and smoking tons of weed and him trying to get a record deal with them for you know, Europe, and heard that. I've read that story. I've heard that story dozens of times from them. That's hilarious.

Not let's hear from Richard Branson. Let's hear Branson's interpretation of that experience. The only other thing I haven't mentioned that was always intriguing to me was was Boogie Boy. And that's another bit of a femera that I'd like to track down a piece of. And again I would see the face or I would see pictures of Mark Mothersbond that mask this little kind of chrubic just generic kid face, but since he's so myopic, he'd always have glasses on over it.

It's spelled bo j I Boy, but it's boogie boy, which as a kid, I always mispronounced it, obviously, because the reason for that is that they created the lettering for it with Lectra set, which you're familiarly with, definitely, and they didn't have any g's and they had used up all the e's, so they did ji. But it's boogie Boy, and so he's like their little human mascot that's weird. And he performs as on some songs, performs a song from Oh What is It? It's one of the Japanese monster movies. What it's called The words get stuck in my throat and he performs a version of that live and it's just utterly bizarre and fascinating.

Love that I'll be watching that too. It is from the War of the Gargantuos. Here's Boogie Boy singing a snippet of it. A bobblehead was released of him a number of years back. Wade Krause has one which I should let him know that he can sell for about five hundred dollars on eBay right now.

And there was a little figure, these Japanese figures kind of like kubricks or bear bricks, but they were called keys because they were a key chain. They released a little monkey in the yellow taiek has matt suit with a boogie boy mask that fit over its head. And I have been trying, let's track one of those down on eBay four years. That's cool, that's that's my next goal is to grab one of those at a not ridiculous price. But it you know, to relate again kind of to Planet of the Apes that colin response of are We Not Men?

We are Divo, which is in Jockohomo, which is the title of their first album, comes from Island of Lost Souls, the first film, the iteration of the Island of Doctor Moreau, and that is something that they would chant are we not men? Not that we are devot part obviously, but and that's that's a movie too, Like I mean, Island of Doctor Moreau is fantastic, and then we could have a whole conversation about the remake with Marlon Brando too. I've never watched it. I highly recommend you do. Not that you'll enjoy, not that you'll enjoy, probably won't enjoy.

It is to watch bad movies. It's a It is a piece of work, but there are parts of it that you that that well, well, that's a whole other. I've seen bits and pieces of it. But I have seen the Island of Doctor Moreau, the seventies film with Michael Yorke. I am that's good.

Yeah, I have not seen Island of Lost Souls, so I've caught bits and pieces of it. On TCM they show it every once in a while. Yeah, it's very good. Not seeing the are We Not Men? Part of that.

The Jockohomo stuff also appears, and probably my favorite song from the second album called Wiggly World Off Duty Now for the future. There are these rules, these contradictory rules laid out in that tract that they pull from, and all that stuff is just fascinating to me. That philosophy, the inspiration, theor that become the lyrics to these very strange songs, and sticking to that ideology through most of your career. The latest album they did in twenty ten, is it something for everyone or something for everybody I listen to. I think most of it on iTunes and it's pretty good.

But what I have on my phone are the first four albums and the songs I liked from Oh No, It's Devo and some of the live stuff that came with those special editions and kind of works for me, like I don't need to expand I love them. I pretty much listen to any song that comes on in my shuffle. I don't have to love all of Oh No, It's Devo. I don't really have to listen to anything on Shout or Smooth Noodle Maps or any of that stuff. Yeah, I can totally identify with that.

I as you know, Melvin's are one of my favorite bands of all time. I have particular records of theirs that I that I albums of theirs that I believe are absolute perfection, and they're on rotation constantly for me. But the I don't you know, they come out with an album every year, pretty much, sometimes two albums a year. I can't commit to all that music, and not all of it rings the bell for me, so to speak. So yeah, I get it, But I'm a you know, I'm a Melvin's devotee, like I'm, you know, not to use dvote as a ton of we're talking about Devo, but I am, I'm dedicated and we don't, you know, just because we're dedicated to someone or something or This is a good transition, by the way, to the next half of my Find of the Apes talk.

Just because we like an ip or something doesn't mean we have to like all of it. Yeah, I'm not a completest per se. I am actually getting into And there's a song that's going to open this because they used it. They use it on Instagram for one, a recent thing they're promoting two different They've got the Art of Devo and fifty Years of Devo these compilations, and I think the Art of Devo kind of hits the same stuff as the Hardcore Devo, where it's early demos, early songs that weren't on any of the albums, and so the music they were using for that. I was like, ooh, what is that?

And I found it on Hardcore Devo on iTunes and like this song is great. Oh yeah, they've got some funky grooves going on in these early demos and stuff that kind of disappear. I didn't even talk about their cover of Satisfaction, which is just amazing, and how it's just so different from the original, and the way it was created was I could go on about a lot of this stuff. It's masterful. It's masterful, and I just always assumed they kind of deconstructed the song, but I guess I'll get into it before we switch they I just recently kind of re read this and re remembered it that it happened because they were goofing around and Alan Myers had started this drumbeat, Bob One had started a little guitar riff and just as a goof well during rehearsal, and Mark Mother's boss started singing a different Rolling Stones song over the top of it, and then somebody was like, hey, do Satisfaction.

They're not related in any way until the end of the song, and he actually plays the riff on his guitar. And if you want to find out about the guitar, that's another intriguing thing. Look up the I can't get No Satisfaction guitar because he doesn't usually play guitar live, but when he does, it's got all the boxes. Oh, and that's one of the images on that first album. Yeah, big image from the Satisfaction video and I'm like, what are all those things all over his guitar?

Yeah, they would all get custom guitars made, or they would cut guitars up. This is stuff I think you could appreciate, where you know, they would take the top half of a bass off and then send it down and smooth it out and make it look like a custom bass and love it. As this stuff pops into my head, I just want to keep going, but I won't so well. I mean, that kind of creativity is always inspiring, you know, don't just I mean, I was listening to who was I listening to a pretty iconic musician. It's the names escaping me right now.

But he was talking about how the band Morphine came up, you know, in the nineties, and they just he the lead singer, reinvented the bass guitar. And at that time, that's something that we needed. If all you got to do to rethink how something is used is to just use your imagination and start fucking around with different string placements or or putting electronic devices into your instrument. And you know, Wayne Coin, they did tons of that stuff, right, and like you know this is circuit bending and all the circuit bending. Yeah, I mean Wayne Coin's guitar from Flaming Lips, that's basically a Ferreman that's a guitar.

At the same time, I mean this kind of creativity is great and DeVos Devo is a great example of establishing. You know, you've got this, you've got this rule, let's break it. Let's you've got this thing, let's let's change it. And I love that it's inspiring. That is very true.

No, they only good human? Is that good guman? You know what they say human see human do. Planet of the Apes similar to what we were talking about with Devo. You don't have to like everything, right, Melvin's same thing.

You don't have to like everything. Planet of the Apes is still for everybody listening to this, you know, Planet of the Apes is still part of the conversation. There's there's there are movies continuously being made. But for a long time, you know, there there wasn't a lot of Planet of the Apes stuff out there besides the original films and some of the you know, and if you saw a Migo toy or something some toy at an antique store or swap meet or something, and then the Tim Burton movie comes around and brings helps bring Planet of the Apes into the limelight again, so to speak, and in my opinion, interest in that franchise hasn't really died down since then. In fact, we've got a lot of new toys since then and a ton of movies, A ton, would you say, four, Well, there's a new one coming out that'll be the fourth one.

Yeah, and not all of that's great. I mean, I know I talked about this when we were talking about Tim Burton in a previous episode. I think it was. Yeah, I think it was doing one of our conversations. I went to go see Planet of the Apes by myself on the first day, Like the Tim Burton Planet of the Apes, I had to see it.

I was so excited. I was ecstatic that in this time when computer animation was on the rise and at the forefront of box office hits, Tim Burton decided to go full on traditional special effects makeup with these apes human beings acting behind the makeup, just like the original films, but of course better makeup. And I was super excited. Watched the movie and was genuinely disappointed it wasn't it wasn't great. I mean, there was a lot of there were a lot of nice nods to the original films.

It was a really interesting approach to the original storyline, a really interesting take. But when I say this, I mean it in full sincerity. I haven't watched that film since I saw it on DVD, so I've only seen it twice, and it just doesn't ring a bell for me. It just doesn't ring that bell for me. It doesn't make me happy in the way that the original films do.

And then when I found out that they were re releasing or that they were going to reimagine the story in the new series of films, I was excited. And again I watched Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and then the second one, I believe, I don't remember what's the second one called. It was Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Dawn of the Planet of the DAWNA yeah, and War for the Planet of the Apes. So I saw Dawn of and I saw a Rise of. But I haven't seen War four, and I'm hesitant to see the newer one too that's coming out.

But I'm intrigued though, because the new one that's coming out it's almost like it's that cyclical thing that we were talking about. We're now in a place where the human beings are the de evolved creatures, the evolved species, and that the planet the apes are a dominant the dominant race. In fact, that it seems to align a little bit with battle for the planet of the Apes. So I'm intrigued by that because here we are going going in that circle again. Though the technology and the computer animation is impressive, it's still just doesn't grab me as much as the original films and the original films like we've talked about, like we talked about previously today, like the special effects makeup, it's not fantastic.

It is fantastic when you compare the special effects makeup as far as technical the technical saying that, and I'm gonna keep disagreeing because I think it's fantastic. We're not what's funny, what the terminology is different, But we are in agreement. The special the quality of artwork involved in making that original special effects makeup is nowhere near as the as the as the artistic effort of you know Rick Baker or a contemporary special effects makeup artist, you know, the makeup in the tim Burton film is spectacular in that the the artistry had evolved to a point where you can actually see the facial expressions more of the actor underneath. Now, the reason why we are in agreement, in my opinion, is because nothing equals the power or the effort of the original films with the makeup, the acting underneath the makeup, the aesthetics of the original makeup, the way those faces looked.

Nothing matches that. And you can bring in computer animation, you can bring in Rick Baker, you can do all these things to the newer movies, and nothing quite works as well as those original films. To me, if I'm going to watch the newer film, it's going to be for the interesting new take on the story, not for the special effects. When I watch the original films, I'm watching it to see those actors underneath that heavy makeup do masterful work. And I'm watching also for the storyline and for the music too.

I mean the music in all those films. It's just fantastic. To make a swift transition back to appreciating the original makeup design for these films. I'd much rather watch Hanging with Doctor Z than watch the new movies because I'm I don't know if anybody out there has watched Hanging with Doctor z but I highly recommend it's a YouTube show. Dana Gould is a comedian who's pretty darn smart.

He'd written a few like Simpsons episodes, I believe, and he basically portrays Doctor Zayas. But Doctor zayas Is is sort of he's involved in Holly show host. Yeah, well, he's a talk shows host, but he talks about this a lot as a host that he's involved with Hollywood, you know, and knows the stars, and he is an ape basically acting in Hollywood, and he does a lot of part of the comedy there is the name drops a lot, and he spends a lot of time with famous actors outside of his talk show host time. But he had he's wearing the original makeup of Doctor Zais and it's awesome. It's hilarious and it's tongue in cheek, but it's also like the level of appreciation for the original films is there, and I love it.

And you and I were talking before we started today about how it can be a little bit much, and that's absolutely true. But every time a new episode pops up, I jump on it and I watch it. Usually it usually makes me feel real good. I want to take a moment and just talk a little bit about the toys, because I'm a you and I are are we have a at least I do. I have a love hate relationship with reaction figures.

They're a little too expensive lately. But when there's when there are figures. This we're talking about the Super seven line of action figures, reaction figures, which basically follow the same design aspects of vintage Kenner Star Wars action figures. Every once in a while, I'll go down a rabbit hole and drewl drool over the Planet of the Apes reaction figures, and there's a play set and everything. I never got on board with buying those, but every once in a while look at them and I'll think, oh, man, I should I should try and get some of them.

But they're a draw for me too, and I passed on them. Yeah, I can't passmgretfully. I know, I know, I'm We're we're planning a trip to San Francisco in May, and whenever we go to San Francisco, I swing by, or you know, we swing by the Super seven store and just have a look at what's on the shelves. If there happens to be a regular priced Planet of the Apes figure on their shelf, I'm probably going to grab it. But they've done figures from most of the original film.

So the weird mutant in mutant human what's his name, mendes Uh in the in this in Beneath the Planet of the Apes. He's got that like raw pink veiny head. It's like when the Simpsons turn inside out on that Treehouse of Horrors episode. That's exactly it. That's exactly the look.

So I'm tempted by that figure of that character. But and you know, you and I have enjoyed seeing the Migo re releases. I've gotten a bunch of them. Yeah, I've gotten a few of them too. Oh wait, no, I've only gotten two of them.

That was one of the things I gave myself for Christmas a couple of years ago. Caesar and General Ursus. I got Zayas and Ursus and I have the I have the Cornelius that you gave me. And yeah, Migo, the Planet of the Apes action figures the archaeologists. It's nice to see those newer Migos, but they don't quite don't quite get there as far as being as as beautiful as the vintage Migo Planet of the Apes figures, They're pretty good though, that Caesar is basically Cornelius.

Again, yes, a different outfit. So when I started back into Migos, however many years ago, that was a company called E m C. And then releasing the Star Trek figures and Planet of the Apes figures basically straight Nego reproductions. And I got the Doctor zais of that nice And I can't remember if my Cornelius. I think my Cornelius is an original.

I like the new ones. Yeah, they're they're good. I mean it it you know it. It does the thing. It activates that feeling of nostalgia for me.

And I'll and I wasn't. I'm not. I'm a little bit younger than you. I didn't see those figures in the stores growing up. Maybe a few of them like on clearance racks, but or and definitely saw a few of them later on at like swap meets and stuff back when, God back when, you know, back when.

Vintage figure, vintage Star Wars figures, vintage Migos, vintage g I Joe's he Man and the Masters of the Universe figures could be found at swap meets for like two or three dollars a pop fifty cents a pop back then, early nineties swap meets man that that was the time. But I was at an antique store not too long ago and I saw some of the Really they're really crappy. Some people listening might argue with me on this, but they came out with some action figures for the Tim Burton Planet of the Apes movie that are like really cheap and really like clunky and awkward looking, and I kind of fell in love with them, almost like they're better, you know, they're definitely more intriguing than the film.

So I don't know, I've been thinking about those, but I'm definitely That's the thing about the new films is you could essentially buy like a sh like ape and maybe put some like hang some like a bone belt on it or something, and have it looked like you don't even need to do that. You don't even need to do that. That's basically the apes from the newer films, which to me doesn't do it for me as much. I love that. I love that.

I love the look of the original apes. I'm going to go to bat for them, having just watched them really for the first time, and I really think you should give them another shot. All right, I will finish up the trilogy and then give the next one a chance. I stayed away from them for the same reason because I was like, the nostalgia aspect of it isn't there because they're just apes. But they are very well made, the stories are very well done.

The first one, they get better, so it's a progression upward. And that is what I would hear or read each time I knew one came out like this is better than this one, this is better, this is even better than the first two. And you don't get that in a lot of new franchises. It's usually diminishing returns. In this case, all signs pointed the other direction.

First one I had pretty much seen caught on cable. I have a love hate relationship with James Franco. I think he's a tool, but I'm with you on that. You know, he does some interesting things as well as big budget things, and this is one of those big budget things. And there are nods to the originals throughout, and you know the original ape that they're testing this drug on is called bright Eyes and things like that, and then the ape that it gives birth to they call Caesar.

So it's an intriguing way to You're kind of starting where maybe the third of the original movies is coming from, where the apes are becoming intelligent, not necessarily by necessity, but we're trying to do it. We're the people that make this happen. Yeah, which I actually think is more interesting than just apes traveling back in time from an already advanced ape society. But you know, you could argue which is more interesting. I got over really quickly the absence of the masks, the makeup, and them wearing clothes and being more like humans, which is fun.

But this is I hate to say, but it's a more realistic approach to how this could come about. Yeah, I see that for sure, apes can become the more intellment, more intelligent, the dominant species. Yea, and the second one. So we watched the first two last weekend, just Cleo and I and then because my wife was doing schoolwork and stuff, and then she was like, hey, when you guys watch the third one, I want to watch it. So we watched it last night and if you can sort of just lay aside, this exists separate from those other movies, right.

CGI is very good for the most part, particularly the ring. The main orangutan in the Maurice looks like a real ape. It's emotional. It's a human drama but with apes, and it really really gets you. And there's a lot of heart to them, and there's a lot of, like I said, emotion and feeling.

And then and the third movie is is kind of a gut ridden en experience. And I really really liked them and would watch all three again in a hot second with no hesitation. That's good to hear, because I've been hesitant because I watched again. I watched the first one in the second one and I was like, Eh, it's all right, you know, but you said the name of the orangutan is Maurice, and I didn't realize this. That's a that's a really great reference to the actor who played doctor zaias Maurice Evans, who was the orangutan in the original film.

That's why that's there. That's fantastic. Yeah, you know they Caesar has a baby named Cornelius. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, they start in that third one just to kind of spoil it for you a little bit, but you do see an ape in close, and it's done so that it makes sense as to why this apes wearing close.

And it's a great performance by Steve Zoon. But there are names and other things throughout the military group in the third one, they're all branded and they have Alpha Omega as their brand, which is the name of the nuclear missile that they worship in the second film. That's amazing. They're They're definitely worth a shot. I understand and kind of poo pooed them for the same reason.

But sometimes you have to let go of those preconceived notions and just enjoy something for what it is. And I think I did a really good job with them. Yeah, you've sold me on revisiting them, that's for sure. I've been so hesitant. But I do want to add to this that when I saw the trailer for the newest film recently, I was I got excited because it's it takes us back to that familiar territory a little bit of the humans being chased down by the apes, and so it got me.

It got mein kind of like this, maybe this is interesting that we're coming full circle here. My wife has this fear of apes, primarily primarily chimpanzees. I've got I've gotten her a little I've gotten her. I know, I've gotten her a little bit more lain I know. They're the main apes I know.

And that's that's part of the part of the issue too. Probably for me too, is like, well, do I want to put her through that? And I like to watch movies with her. She's fun to watch movies with so, but she did so. She saw the trailer for the new one too, so she might be feeling the itch to watch them with me.

So we'll get into that. Maybe that'll be an addendum to a future episode. I'll talk about my experiencing those, but I do. My last thought is this, did you ever see the Edward G. Robinson performance footage of him playing Doctor zais the test footage.

It's absolutely terrifying and I highly recommen and you go watch that. He was originally the first Doctor Zayas they did some test footage. The makeup is kind of terrifying. I under I'd like to see one of these independent toy makers that are that do these sort of one off fun toy projects, do an Edward G. Robinson, plent of the the apes doctor Zayas that would be cool, but yeah, go check that out.

It's streaky. Well. I totally forgot to mention speaking of Super seven and kind of oh yeah, staying away from them, And I told you this numerous times. This came up when I talked to Michael Pilmer because the Funko Pops or Devo had come out, or one of them had come out, maybe both of them. So they did the yellow suits with their converted skateboard helmets and three D mask and then they did the whip It one with the energy gentme and the turtleneck and all that.

So of course I got them because there's not much else out there, and I had mentioned to him during that conversation these would be great for Super seven to do. Yeah, yeah, they were probably already working on it, and kudos to him first staying tight lipped about it with me back. I guess it's been at least a year now. They were announced that they were doing Devo and the first one they released was corresponds to the first album as Bob two, who has also passed away. I think he died the year after Alan Myers did.

So it's him with his guitar from the Satisfaction video in the yellow suit, and I believe the three D glasses. Like we've mentioned numerous times, they're twenty bucks, and twenty bucks to me for a Kinner style figure is just too much. And I've been waiting for them to drop because I would like to get them. It's a Star Wars figure basically of this band that I love. Yeah, you know what, I think I'm wrong.

Actually, the Mark Mothersbaugh one came out first. That corresponds with the Freedom of Choice album and the Whip It video, so that one came out first. Sorry, I caught myself on that, and which I thought was odd because it's not the first album, but I guess it's the most recognizable thing, so I was like, yeah, it's him in the outfit with a whip and a bowl of whip cream. Bob two then comes out a little while later, and I'm thinking, Ah, you know, I know at some point I'm going to get sucked into this, but i'd like them to be like fifteen or less. They just haven't.

I don't venture out like you do, so maybe i'd find them at a local store on clearance or something. Just so you know, I haven't seen any of the Devo figures out in the out in the stores. I would have definitely sent you an image if I had seen that. But yeah, So, knowing that this was going to be my next thing, I had decided, actually actually right after our last recording, that I'm Devo next. And I'm like, well, shit, let me look on Amazon.

I know they're probably there. They had them both. They're at the retail price, but at least I'm not paying for shipping. When I had them, one came like the next day, and then the Mark Mothers baw one came, you know, within a week. So I had those.

And then just last Sunday I saw on Super seven the image of Gerald Casalle and the New Traditionalists yep out fit with the pompadour and the action vest yeah goodbye from their catalog back in the day, and I thought, oh, this is going to be hard to not get and I sent that to you and I was like, I guess I'm in for I guess I'm all in now or whatever. And then the very next day the figure was released. It was on Super seven, so they did a real brief, real short like preview, and then the next day they were available on oscar. I'll just go ahead and get one, And then Michael Pilmer on his utube tube channel had already gotten some, so he did his review the day of the release. This one might actually be my favorite because I thought, probably that vest looks odd when Super seven and Devo and everybody else were showing the image of it on the card.

It's a thing that would buckle under your crotch. It's this vest that straps on, but it was like kind of bulky, and I'm like, that's weird looking. Why did they sculpt it that way? And then as he did as unboxing and took the figure out, I realized, oh, you can take it off. That's cool rubber vest that you can pull off over his head.

And then he comes with the spud gun that they would use yep during that tour and stuff. So the other two are pretty iconic and more well known maybe than this one, but I kind of love this one. So yeah, I'm curious to see what they do next. I have a feeling that they won't do an Alan Meyer's figure since he's passed, and there was you know, kind of he split from the band, and they've had like five or six drummers since then. So I know when Neka did a line of figures of them years ago, it was whoever the drummer was at the time.

Yeah, I could be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure. So anyway, Yeah, I'm I'm all in on this reaction Devo figures. Now, that's kind of the that's kind of how how Super seven succeeds in charging that amount for a small figure, especially with bands. People aren't going to buy every single rock star that Super seven puts out. Maybe somebody will, but usually it's like, oh, I love Jimmy Hendrix, so I'll spend twenty bucks to get the Jimmy Hendrix, you know, or I love Devo, I'll spend the sixty dollars to get those three figures.

They had sent out and thing saying, hey, if you have any ideas, respond and I of course let you know. I sent out my response and it involved the the Powell Peralta original Powell Peralta team. Uh. From my my idea was like search for Animal Chin and all in like that original team. But they did end up releasing powerper Out the figures, which are cool.

But I also mentioned the Melvins. I would love to see Melvin's but it's a similar dilemma. Melvins have had like five different bassists and so it'd really just be Buzzo and Dale, I think. But you know, you never know. Well, I had done the same thing, and my only suggestion was debo, there you go.

We're helping Super seven out with our ideas. Yeah, I bought something and they're like, hey, send us your suggestions. Yeah, and I did. And the response back was something like it didn't imply that they were working on it, but it sort of rang that way to me in my head, like okay, yeah. And it wasn't too much longer after that, but they the first one.

They do those interesting projects and it, you know, it fulfills, it fulfills a need for folks, and I admire them for that. I do think the prices are too much, are too high, but I can see why they would charge that amount. The packaging is usually put. The artwork on the card backs usually pretty great they are, and these are well done and they're well illustrated, and they take the inspiration from the album that it's corresponding to and do it pretty accurately, and I know that Michael Pilmer is involved in all that and making sure that things are done correctly and that Mark mothers Bow has the correct glasses on and this and that, and the sculpts are fairly generic, but they kind of vaguely resemble the guys a little bit, and they're not producing things in the numbers that has bro is, which is why they can sell theirs for twelve dollars instead of twenty.

I got sucked in, I'm in for however many they do. My original assumption was those first five albums, since they have very specific outfits for them, would be it. But they can actually dig still. They could do other outfits for each album because in concert they would wear different things during that tour as well. There are all kinds of and then there's things from the videos that they wore that were different.

Yeah for sure. So because I know that they do that with a lot of the heavy metal bands that they have reaction figures for who have very specific looks, like Kiss for each album, Iron Maiden with the different Eddie versions of Eddie for each album. Yeah for sure, things like that. So they did an action figure just of the the metallic beast on the motor the Motorhead album or the Motorhead Iconic. What is that?

Like a metallic beast creature that they use to represent themselves. They did a figure of that too, so that you know, and the Pealperata guys, they aren't it's not Tony Hawk. It's an action figure of Tony Hawk as the artwork from the skateboards. So it's like, you know, these alternative or these interpretations of these people of importance. That makes it interesting.

And so yeah, there's a ton of devo options that they have available to them. I'm kind of hoping that they do a Turkey Monkey or a boogie boy, so right, they kind of they kind of have to. They kind of have to. A boogie Boy is a definite possibility, But I don't know how they would do a Turkey Monkey. They'd have to release it as a vinyl figure, which I would love.

But that would be amazing. That would be amazing. It would be pretty cool, all right. So that was awesome. Mark, Where can people find you and do you have anything interesting coming up?

Uh? You can find me on social also social media platforms. At Wakeup Heavy, I tried to get on my website. Last night I was looking into when I talked about Devo on wake Up Heavy, and I wanted to look at that entry on my blog and it wouldn't come up. So I'm not sure what the problem is.

I know that my domain just switched from Google to Squarespace. I don't know if that's it or if it's the browser I'm on, so I'm hesitant to say go to wakeupheavy dot com. I think this has happened in the past and I don't know how to rectify it anyway. Social media, look for the Chasing Chevy podcast in April on Weirdywaymedia dot com And uh yeah, I haven't done anything with wickup Heavy for a few months, and I don't really have anything planned, so we're on a hiatus again until I get inspired. How about you?

Uh? For me? Currently working on a Snake Mountain another Snake Mountain commission build, So if anybody's interested in watching me make this big play set, you can head over my YouTube channel. I'm currently working on episode eight right now, which is I do these Every weekend, I put out an episode of me documenting the stage that I'm currently at with the build, So doing that this weekend, and you know, you can find me on Instagram under Skella Vader or Ronald Zuriggian Underscore Projects and or head over to the YouTube channel and check that stuff out over there. If you're interested in listening to episodes of Cambridge and with Sean a little bit earlier, you can become a Patreon for Skelevator and that information is on my YouTube channel as well.

I'm surprised you didn't bring up the Doctor's Ais episode of The Simpsons. Oh God, Doctor zaiahs Doctor zayas doctor doctors. Doctor says, Doctor says, Doctor says, that might be one of the greatest things they ever did. It's phenomenal. I mean, that's I agree.

It's one of the best Simpsons episodes ever. Was that during Conan O'Brien O'Brien years. Be interesting to find out if Dana go Gold was oh that one. I am willing to bet one dollar that Dana Gould was involved in that one. We're gonna do some research after we close up shop here today.

Gould was not involved in this episode of The Simpsons. All right, folks, until we meet again, have fun, stay weird, and keep collecting. Thanks for listening. Help the humans about to escape. Get your paws off me, you dirty eight.

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Doctor says oh, Doctor says. Doctor says. Doctor says, what's wrong with me? I think you're crazy. On a second opinion, you're all so lady, doctor say is.

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Doctor says, And I played the piano anymore. Of course you can. Well I couldn't before. I hate every eight by c from jimpan A to Chimpanzee. No, you'll never make a monkey out of me.

Oh my god, I was wrong. It was earth all along. You finally made a monkey. This finally made a monkey. Yes, you finally made I love you, Doctor, Sam Cambridge m Shawn is a weirding Way media podcast