Special Guest 02: What's wrong with puppets?

Cambridge. MSHON is a weird Way media podcast. What's Wrong with Puppets Before After, Before, Before. After, Hello, and Welcome to Cambridge And with Shan, a podcast by two weird guys about the weird things that they like. Scratch that make that three weird guys.

We are back with another special guest. We got our old pal to crawl out of his dungeon to join us over here on Cambridge and with Shon. Oh wait, I need to introduce us. No, no, I don't. Ronnie and Mark are here.

We're along with our good pal Dan Davis. How's it going. Nice to talk to you guys. Good to see you, man. I can't even remember the last time I saw you.

I yeah, Ronnie, I saw not too long ago, a couple of years. Yeah. I was trying to think Mark the last time we saw each other in person, and it's been a long time. I remember going to your house over was it Dakota and something? Yeah, by Shields, by that target, yeah, probably Carlya.

Oh yeah so yeah, so that was like, yeah, right before I moved up to the Pacific northwest. Right, because you were back from La yep, but not yet up north obviously. Yeah. So that was like twenty years ago. Wow, at least that house was the last time that our previous guest Jeff and you and I Dan got together and.

Recorded That's right, was at AF seven to two. That's right. That was ups too. Oh my gosh. I was just looking at that CD.

I still have that CD with the cutout collage cover. You remember that. I can signed that album at Tower Records, that's right, and set the price for like five hundred dollars. Yeah, of this right, and someone stole it. Somebody stole there.

You go, that's what you get. They thought they was stealing something super valuable five hundred dollars. I love that. And then they put on that forty five minute song and they're like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, they slowly crept in and put it back on the shelf.

Like some albums onto the show. We got to get that on Apple Music. So, as you know, Ronnie and I generally talk about something that we've been obsessed with since childhood, generally speaking, and like our last guest Jeff Martin, we asked Dan to pick a couple of things from his childhood then he was obsessed with, and Ronnie and I have no idea what he's bringing to the table. So this should be interesting. Hopefully Ronnie or I have some something to add to the discussion.

If not, we'll just sit and listen to Dan the whole time. I have to forewarn you, Dan that if you bring up anything having to do with RPGs, it's just going to be stuff that I've learned from your channel. Yeah. I do have one gaming thing, but you guys might have some history with it. I bet we do.

I bet we do in some capacity. And even if not, that is perfectly fine. I went kind of back and forth. I was going to pick really broad topics, right, it would be very hard to make the conversation interesting. Way, music right, right, Movies, Star Wars.

Yesificity is always good. Yeah, Totoyo is the truth. I just listened to your maybe your last or one of your previous David Lynch episodes. Oh yeah, yeah, and I almost just picked three David Lynch movies just so I can. Talk to you.

Well, we could do that. We can roll with that before we jump in, though, Dan, maybe you could tell the five people that are listening all about what you do online. Yeah, so real Briefly, I have a YouTube channel called The Dungeon Dive, and it's focused on fantasy and science fiction tabletop games, with mainly a focus on games that you can play solo, any kind of co op game or solo game. There's solo RPGs, and there's different types of fantasy adventure games. I've been into tabletop games since the late eighties.

It comes and goes. I think Mark and Ronnie when we were hanging out most of the time, I wasn't really into tabletop games. Yeah, some card games, you know, like Magic the Gathering. Yeah, yeah, stuff. So yeah, when I moved up to the Pacific Northwest Seattle, it's just the weather appears so conducive to just staying inside a lot.

Yeah, so indoor hobbies are the best hobbies. And yeah, books, GRAVI yet movie. Huge library of fantasy. I almost picked, like, you know, fantasy fiction. Yeah, I read a lot of fantasy.

Almost picked Stephen King. Hey. I had a little checklist in my mind too, and King was definitely on the list. Stephen King was on there. Yeah, yeah, any kind of fantasy fiction.

And then I'm like, is it going to be something just totally out of left field that neither Runnie or I expect. So, who knows your channel on YouTube? You've got like what thirty seven thousand followers? Yeah, yeah, that's amazing, Dan. It's going pretty well.

You know, there's peaks and valleys. I seem to be at this plateau right now where I'm not quite sure how to grow the channel more right, I've been kind of stuck for a while. But it's still fun. I guess the best thing about it is I'm able to do it part time. I only worked at a job like three days a week, and I can spend two or three days.

That's been a hobby, which is fun. Yeah, that's the way it's Are you kidding? Yeah? That's I mean, that's kind of a perfect life in my eyes, which I think Ronnie and I have probably both attempted in our lifetimes. How can I turn this into something yea with publishing or writing or whatever.

And we only have valleys over here at Cambridge. So I'm gonna say. What Mark and I did, Peks, you will be a great way to make a career out of podcasting is to talk about Fresno, a weird interests. And adult men playing with toys exactly. I still have some of your zes Mark some of the wake Up Heavy.

Ze Oh yeah, I think you sent me a picture on Facebook or somebody didn't know it was you. It was you, and and I think Jason Cooksy did as well. But I'm like, oh, I love to see that people still have them, so that's always fun. And then I look at them, the ones that I have here, and I get sad and nostalgic too. But I don't even know if I could mustard the energy to do something like that anymore.

But it's so much work. It's so much I mean, but you published some pretty well known writers, especially like in the in in the boutique fiction. Field, Yeah, I got lucky. Did you have like Lawrence ferling Gett, No, never had him. Trying to think of like the biggest person.

You got probably either Wanda Coleman or Cosky or Fielding, Dawson. Field, That's who I was thinking of. Fielding. Yeah, yeah, that was a big deal. I was poaching the Blacksburrow Press authors.

That's right, That's right. Yeah. I remember we would go to bookstores and I would be looking for like daw paperback spines and uh, I gotta talk you guys will be looking for black Sparrow Press. Yeah, totally. Well, and that's changed now.

Every time Mark and I or Jeff and I have gone to a book barn and we're all scouring the Daw paperbacks. And by the way, Dan, when you come next time, I don't know if you've gone over there, but a book Barn and Clovis has an amazing sci fi collect show. Yeah. I go there every time I go to Frost. Yeah.

Mark and I had this theory that maybe most of that was already yours and you got rid of it when you. Moved up Noro. I never sold books in Fresno. I've sold a lot of books at half price up here in Seattle, and oh yeah, I go to half priced books and I still see, oh yeah, I sold that to them. I sold that.

Well, that's all I get when we go to a book barn our daw sci fi, Yes, because I just love the covers. The covers, Oh my god. Got about maybe a dozen of them so far, and they seem to have them every time we go or I go. For a long time. The book Barn and Clovis had an almost complete set of Arkham House.

Mmmm. First Prince of Lovecraft Howard. Yeah, Park Ashton Smith with all of that stuff, and they've been selling them off over like the last twenty years. Their prices were always just a little too high the book barn, I think for their collector stuff. Yeah, they know what they have and they priced it accordingly.

Yeah, but it's fine. It's fine, although sometimes I mean I've found a couple of gems that slipped through the cracks and you know, got up for three bucks and they could have charged me twelve dollars for Splinter of the Mind's Eye Alan Deine Foster. Yeah, well what I get that for like three dollars or something like that. Yeah, it's so much fun, and I feel like whenever I'm perusing those aisles, I'm always thinking about you, Dan. Looking for those odd novelizations.

That's my baycake. Now I got this one last weekend. Oh yeah, Dragon's Dragon Slayer. Yeah that's good. It's good stuff, which I know you have because I watched your novelization now on your sister channels.

All right, well we'll take a quick break and we'll come back with Dan's first awesome childhood obsession. But maybe it's not childhood. Maybe it's grown up obsession. Who knows this is a childhood and a current love. There's a little reasons.

Don't adjust the television set. Your reception is fine, But in their new suburban home, the Feeling family has tuned into. Something beyond our world. Poldegeist, you will never look at your television center the same way again, Holdegeist, Stevens Fielderg Production rated. Beg.

All right, we're back Dan hit us with this first obsession. Yeah, all right, So this is something I loved as a kid and I still love. It's my favorite movie of all time, and that is, of course, nineteen eighty two s Poltergeist. Yeah. I knew you were gonna do this because on that novelization video you mentioned a couple of times this is my favorite movie, and I was like, oh, this would work.

The novelizations written by James Kahn are fantastic, And actually he just put out a autobiography about his life as a novelization. Wow. Interesting, that's cool. He was a heart surgeon and the novelization writer. What.

Yeah. He wrote the novelizations for Poulter Guys, Polter Guys, Two, Temple of Doom, Goonies, and Return of the Jedi, which I read a hundred times as a kid. Me too, so I of course don't know what happened to my copy of Return of the Jedi, but that's the other one I picked up. I picked up Dragon Slayer and Return of the Jedi. I was at a book flying less time, and as a kid, I got such a kick out of this.

You guys can understand this, but I knew who James Kahn the actor was actor, So finding this name that's pronounced similarly different James Kahn was such a novel thing for me. No pun intended, but yeah, hey, nice. Poulter guys man. There's a lot to talk about. You could start with directed air quotes by Toby Hooper.

Yeah, air quotes. It does not feel like a Toby Hooper film. Yeah, I know the great debate about that. Yeah, Steven Spielberg. I'm kind of leaning towards he did.

Yeah, I mean I recently watched that Invaders for Mars. Oh yeah, you can see his Poltergeist look and feel Invaders for Mars. But you can't deny that Spielberg's fingerprints are all over, Oh yeah, every facet of Poultergeist. Most producers don't sit around on set for a whole shoot. He was very present.

He was present. Yeah, nineteen eighty two was that like a year after Raiders? Was Raiders like eighty one. Yeah, Pilbert was definitely busy. Definitely meant came out the same year.

Yeah, Et and Bolter guys felt like they were both shot in the same neighborhood. Yeah, you get the same exact housing developments, the style, the atmosphere feels very similar. Yeah, and that's my favorite thing about Poltergeist is the house. It's, in my opinion, the most lived in feeling the domestic environment ever captured on film. Yeah.

I mean it looks like every house I grew up in, the clutter, that furniture, stuff stacked in weird places. It just has such a homey vibe to it. It's definitely a document of the era. Yeah, your formative years were the late seventies or early eighties. At least one or two of your friends lived in a place that looked exactly like that, if you didn't yourself.

Yeah, and it's so so well done. The set design, the art design, it's just so accurate to that era for us. Oh Yeah, the family too, is such a good family, and that's something that doesn't feel Spielberg in because Spielberg's families are always broken. Yes, and what is the name of the I can't remember their last name. I just playing.

But the family of Bolter Guys is a really like loving family unit. Craig T. Nelson and Joe Betsy Williams are like the perfect eighties parents. They are so awesome and they like each other. They get along.

I know, yeah, they get along. They joke. One of my favorite moments in the movie is when they roll a joint on the Ronald Reagan book. They use the love that. The Freelings are their names feelings.

That's right before after, before, before after. And I had such a huge and I still do a huge crush on Joe Beeth Williams in this movie. Yeah, for sure. It's so cute and her laugh and smile, and yeah, she didn't go on to do very much. She did a few things in the eighties, but kind of I don't know if you retired early or what.

I remember her from Teachers and from this. She was in The Big Chill. Yeah, and she has a very small part in Creamer Versus Creamer that oh she like Williams like that scene. Yeah, when you think of her you think of eighties films, So yeah, so did you see it in the theater? No, I think I was just a little too young, So see eighty two.

So I was seven years old. And you know, one of the things to talk about with novelizations growing up is my parents were a little more strict than other parents. And what I could see, I grew up in a very Christian household, but not an overly conservative Christian household, but it was still a Christian household, and so things related to the supernatural we're kind of right rough limits, unless it was like having to do with the supernatural idea of God. For some reason, I actually don't remember the first time. It must have been at somebody's house at a sleepover, of course, where everybody watched things they're not supposed to watch, right because somebody's parents don't give a crap about what they do.

And the thing I remember, though, is people talking about the face ripping scene, right, Yes, like that was the infamous I goes into the bathroom and rips his face off. Yeah, in your mind, before you see it, you imagine it being a lot more gruesome than it really is. It's pretty cartoony. Yeah, it looks like he's messing with silly putty. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Well on the hands are like coming in from different angles. It's like the sweetest chef. I have a story about that that I've told numerous times on my other podcast about being worried about that because I had a weak stomach as a kid. You mentioned Indiana Jones earlier, and I physically walked. I didn't even go into the theater to see that movie.

I left because I knew about that face melting scene and I didn't want him throw up in the theater. So I pretended like I needed to use the bathroom during Poltergeist as this scene approached. Yet I watched it. I watched it like from the aisle standing there. I'm like, Oh, that wasn't that bad.

Like you say, it was kind of cheesy. So I was like, okay, I sat right back down and finished the movie. You know, yeah, I can do it. Yeah right, and that off to the races because the next movie was the Thing, you know, with all of its gores, so which didn't bother me a bit. Yeah, because you're just a few years older than Ronnie and I, so you were probably old enough to go to the theater and see Poulter guys in a.

Yeah, yeah, you saw it in the theater thirteen years old, and I mean for PG, which is I mean, this is one of the reasons PG thirteen, Yeah right, yeah, And this is one of the films, along with Indiana Jones, along with some other Spielberg stuff that made us get PG thirteen. So thanks Stephen. It's kind of crazy that Poultergeis is only PG and that Temple of Doom is PG because Temple of Doom goes hard in a lot of areas. Yeah, the heart of the Heart. Yeah yeah, yeah, even the first one with me.

That face melting stuff is pretty gnarly for a young kid. One of the things that I love about that era of cinema is that I feel like they treated the audience with a lot more respect. Movies were made for grown ups, yeah right, And I feel like a lot of movies today are made for kids, even most right, it's so kiddified. And there was this quality about eighties movies that just felt like they were making movies for adults and they could still be entertaining, but for some reason, there just felt like there was more substance to but of course, it could be just time being the filter. You know, we forget the Howard Howard the duck, We forget.

Are you kidding me? How the duck was almost there were duck boobs in that movie. Reality. I was like, exactly movie I've ever seen in the theater with like full on beastiality. The fact that that's George Lucas just blows my mind.

I think you're onto something, though, Dan, because maybe film production companies had more trust in parents back then. They're like, listen, we know that there's some stuff in here that are going to scare the shit out of your kids, But you're there with them, right, guys, So you're going to tell your kids about this, right, You're going to be the parent in this situation. Correct. I don't think that exists anymore in the relationship between what movie studios are doing and what parents are doing. Everybody has to be concerned with what's going in not just I mean, we could go down a whole path of what is wrong with censoring books and change.

We're not going to do that right now, or no, we. Could, because it all reps up in the same nonsense. Absolutely, my kids saw this. It's like well, you know they talk to them about. It, Yes, talk to them.

We grew up in a time where we would often be. One of the great things about the Goonies, right, it's like during the summer, from the time the sun was up till this time the sun was down, we didn't see our parents. Yeah, we were out getting into stuff, right. Yeah, you know, we didn't have so many scheduled things. I don't know, some of these movies just really capture.

That, Yeah, for sure. Last weekend I watched ET. So I saw ET in the theater and I watched it for the first time since that first seen it. Yeah, really never seen it. Wow, I've only seen it twice in forty five years or whatever.

That's incredible. And man, that movie is awesome. It is. It's great. I was like the virget Tiers, like the last yeah, my god, oh my god.

Are you kidding that ending, the finale, Like there are five times when I'm just losing it. It keeps coming and I'm like, guy, you gotta stop this. Yeah. No, it's a masterpiece of pushing that button. Oh it pushes it hard.

Yeah, and like repeatedly yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I haven't actually haven't had that experience. Sorry to bring in contemporary stuff, but I haven't had that experience sitting down in a movie theater and having that button being pushed by the piece of art that I'm seeing in front of me. I can't remember the last time, except for recently with this new Superman movie. I feel that did it. Oh my god, I'd forgotten what that felt like to be so invested that you're brought to tears multiple times.

Yeah, and you say you mentioned the end of et and like the end of Polter guys, you think it's over right, everybody's hugging and then the real horror, oh comes with the swimming pool scene. Yeah, and all of the skeletons coming up. So good, Oh man, the house just getting pulled into itself. Love that. Such a fantastic ending, so just so good.

Left the fighters and. You only move the hands, sound. Sound, even that giant animatronic ghost skeleton, and at the end it's not even animatronics, just a puppet, right, right, Everything about that movie is so believable and so tactile, even though you know it looks like somebody might have that in front of their house on Halloween, right, yeah, Yeah, but it's so well done. The house imploding, the pool scene, everything's so believable, even the silly putty face. I'm on board with that film.

My favorite thing about movies like that is that build up the discovery of the supernatural. When Joe Beth and the daughter Caroline are in the kitchen and the chairs are moving, the drawers are opening and closing, and love it. They're having fun with it. I love that they're having fun with it. So many horror movies today, I feel like they forget about that.

You know, they talk about the threshold to adventure in the hero's journey, where there needs to be a normality established, yes, for the horror to have any kind of impact. It seems like a lot of horror movies today start with shit already bad. There's no normality. You're bringing up an interesting point. I feel like the horror movies today don't acknowledge that there are other horror movies today.

Yeah. All the characters seem to be like this is new, never even thought. This could happen to me. And that's what I love about horror from the eighties. It feels like the characters in the film there's a level of familiarity with this as part of our cultural language.

Haunted house cinema. Right, that's a whole subgenre. Oh yeah, I love that. So I don't know if you guys have seen the newest I can't remember what it's called now, one of the latest Soderberg movies, Oh Presence, The Presence. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that was okay, Like I thought they did a pretty interesting Yeah, it's an interesting movie, different take on that idea.

Yeah, yeah, I watched it with my daughter. Very deliberately paced. Uh huh. All shot with drone cameras, so in point of view, point of view drone. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a movie that I didn't like much while I was watching it, but it stuck with me afterwards. Yes, I can totally see that. Yeah, speaking of Hana house movies, my kid and I, speaking of watched Amityville Horror last night. Oh yeah, so I have not seen Amityville Horror since the eighties? Does it hold up?

Was it still entertaining? It's you're talking about the first one, right. Yeah, talking about the first one, there's an ample amount of cheesiness in it, Like as far as effects go, we talk about Silly Putty Man and Poltergeist, but this is like borderline low budget effects. I mean literally, like red led lights are supposed to scare the crap out of you when she sees them out the window. But the dread that the family is suffering still hits and works.

The acting is decent enough throughout it. It's a different kind of family dynamic because it's this blendid family. The dad is sort of on the out skirts anyway, because it's her and her three kids. There's not this super levy dovey family like in Poultergeist, which I love that. In Poultrygeist, you know, this guy is on edge already, and then he just from like the third day in he just keeps getting worse, and it's like, what's the real terror here?

The house or him? Oh right right? It still holds up. It's still one of my favorites. I have kind of a history with that.

I read the book, you know, before I saw. The movie, because the book was monumental seller in the eighties, A true story, right, and. I know it though. It was because of the movie that I read the book, because it was definitely a tie in version of it with pictures in it and stuff. But like you Dan, growing up in a Christian house.

It was like my books weren't monitored like movie watching would have been. It's so weird, right, because I'm sure there was probably even more detailed stuff in the book than there wasn't the movie. Yeah, it's a pretty tame movie actually, as far as gore and violence, and there was some brief nudity a little bit. But you know, who knows how they described sex scenes and this and that in the book. I guess they felt more comfortable.

At least he's reading, right, So that's the thing. At least he's reading. I don't know how many scenes in Stephen King books I read when I was in junior high and I was like, oh, oh, my parents. Never read this book. Yep, yeah, I know.

I started reading Stephen King when I was in seventh grade. Yeah that sounds about right. Yeah. I might have even been a little bit younger than that. I might have been like fifth or six.

Our seventh grade school library had the entire J. C. Andrews Flowers. Nice. That's fantastic.

I love that it's about Flowers. Yeah, in the incest fiction section. Every junior high school should have. Yet, I just remember, I haven't watched Amityville Horror. In a long time, the image that keeps coming back to me is James Brolin's makeup as he starts to fall apart, his makeup starts to get more intense, these sickly makeup.

It's just great. What is it that allows us to believe that in those films? What is it about Poltergeist that allows for believability? It's almost this intangible thing that's happening in films from the eighties, And it just could be that we just we grew up with them. We grew up with it.

But I think there's nothing more to it, and I think it has to do with that establishing the normality before the weirdness. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. These movies, even though they're genre movies, they're built upon, you know, pulp concepts. There was still a focus on the characters being human beings, you know, and establishing them. And so when the characters are so fully established, it's much easier for us to believe what they're going through because of their reaction to it.

Yeah, for sure. It also helps that they are all very well rounded characters in this, like you know, every kid's personality by that breakfast scene and by the time you get to the breakfast scene when his class, little boy's class breaks and then they're all separate individuals. You know who the parents are, you know who each of these kids are. That's also something that sort of gets left out of a lot of movies these days is quickly establishing who the people are and that you care about them and also you like every one of them. And in so many horror movies today, we have to have like awful people.

Yeah. Yeah, I think the expectation is that you're rooting for them to die, and I still have a problem with that. I'm like, I want to feel badly for a character. Actually if they do get taken out, I don't want to be rooting like, oh, they killed Jimmy Good he was a asshole. Yeah.

When you think about that, it's like, if this was real life, would you be rooting that this kid got hacked to pieces by the serial killer because just because he was an asshole? Yeah? They didn't even really do that in the old Friday the Thirteenth movies, right, you weren't rooting for the kids to die. The kids weren't terrible kids, you know, they had issues, but it wasn't up until like maybe the fifth or seventh one. But you know what is it, Jason Ford, the one with Crispin Glover.

Chrispin Glover, right, yeah, all of those kids are just typical, okay, cool high school kids. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to see Chrispin Glover die. You don't want to see anybody in that movie die.

When they do, it's like, oh, that sucks. I just I also hope that Crispin Glover never dies. On that note, there's something wrong with the way dialogue is written these days. Sorry, I'm putting on my old man hat right now, but like the dialogue in the films that we grew up with, for some reason, it's written in a way that's not too explaining, you know. Dialogue now is so based on exposition.

Like directors and writers don't trust no their audiences at all. And that's something that I definitely miss from the films of the seventies and eighties even into the nineties a little bit. But those films trusted their audience. They trusted oh, they're going to get it, They're going to understand what's going on, They're going to understand the relationship dynamics of this family. Just by their actions and what they say to each other, not that they're saying we love each other.

Yeah. Yeah. A big part of that is studios and producers though, And I recently read something where and Netflix executive was like specifically told the writer, you need more exposition because people need to be able to understand what's happening while they are looking at their. Phone at their phone. So if you're explaining it visually in this visual medium, for God's sake, they're not going to get it because they're going to be looking down and it's like, oh yeah, disgusting.

In my household, I try to maintain the role of the person who doesn't have the phone. There's four of us sitting on the couch. We're all watching the same thing. And I'm not saying I'm better or anything like that, but someone has to represent that perspective. Someone has to show like, these things are actually fun to watch.

We're not listening to an audiobook. This is stuff happening on the screen. That is very true. Mark, that's the real issue. So maybe that's why writing is the way it is now.

That's part of it. Yeah, if you care to dance, it's good, all. Right, it's all good. Hey, how come you turn that off? Real quick?

Going back to novelizations, I did want to touch upon one thing that I like about the novelization of cultro Guys Dan. It's actually quite a bit different, and I have a feel that the reason that there are things different in the novelization were probably for budgetary reasons, like they just couldn't figure out ways to film this stuff. In nineteen eighty two, there's a really great sequence where in the movie the family goes to the university to find the paranormal investigators. Right in the book, the paranormal investigators find the family. Oh, and it's super cool because they have this van that's kind of like their Ghostbuster van, and they are driving around the city with these instruments that can pick up on paranormal things that are having and so they like hone in on the family's house and they show up to the family and knock on their door and be like, what the hell is going on in your house right now?

And so it's really cool because it adds a little more credibility to their abilities as paranormal investor. Guess certainly they were great scammers. Yeah, it's super cool. It's really really interesting. Don't they do something like that in the second movie, don't they.

Discover the second movie is the Native American Okay, right, the chief guy discovers them. That's what it is. Of course, you know, we've got to have the other there. That's yeah, tuned into spirituality. Yeah.

The novelization, actually, I think treats the Native American folklore with a little more respect the movie does. It actually gets go to it a little bit more. I like Polter Guys Too a lot. I think it's great. I also like Poulter Guys Three.

It was plagued by some really shitty production problems. Of course, had that movie been fully realized, I think it could have been amazing. But yeah, it's still has some pretty good I like all three and I really like Yeah. I think I think two is fantastic. Yeah, they're fun.

That third one with all the mirrors. All the mirror stuff is creepy, amazing. Yeah. The pool scene getting in the pool like that's yeah. Yeah.

And when they come bursting through Zelda. Yeah. Uh, it's like the complete rejection of the suburban life. They're like, right, screw suburban life, We're moving to the city. Yeah, we're moving.

To a high rise. I love a smart building. That they have a smart home. It's gonna screw us up even worse. That's it for poultry guys.

Cool. We'll be right back with Dan's second amazing. I mean, I don't know if you can top poultry guyst but let's see what happened when we come back with the second obsession from Dan Davis. Don't just pick a movie, choose your own venture as you helped the North family discover the secrets of the Abominable Snowman. All right, we're back.

Let's hear about what you got for us now, Dan, Okay, so let's go into the world of fiction. And this is kind of a broad topic. So I wanted to pick something broad because maybe both of you have some experience with these that is a true your own adventure book. Ah, yes, absolutely no. You never got into true jown adventure.

Mark, No, what's Ronnie pulling out? The only experience I have is when I substitute taught. I saw those books and scary stories and r rael Stein books on everybody's bookshelves. That is literally the only experience I have with those. Yeah, I was looking them up this morning.

And they were originally published in nineteen seventy nine. That's a little older than I thought. I thought they were like eighty two or so. Interesting. I totally missed that.

Yeah, I feel like when I saw them on the bookshelves as a kid, they were completely new. But I was doing some research recently too, and I discovered the same thing. I was like, oh, well this is you know, everything feels new when you're a kid, right, Yeah, yeah. Nineteen seventy nine, originally conceived by a guy named Edward Packard. Mm hmm, I was probably already reading Stephen King.

But yeah, Flowers in the attic, come on, don't Yes, I did read that you were reading Clan and the k Fair. Yeah, those I never got into. Though I never got into. Now, not to bring Superman back into the conversation, but I just read something. And I haven't done any fact checking on this yet, but apparently the actor who plays Superman, David korn Sweat, and this new one his grandfather.

Is that guy that you just mentioned. Is Edward Packard. Yeah? Really, Oh interesting something like that. I mean, I'm gonna have to do some fact checking on this, but I'm remembering that in real time right now that I read that just this past week, which is pretty cool.

Yeah, if I need to, I will have our AI assistant correct or confirm it. Wonderful, Let me drop that down. Actually, corn sweat is that his real lesson? I think that's how it's pronounced corn sweat, corn sweet, or sweat swept. Yes.

In fact, Andrew Packard is the maternal grandfather of David Korn's wett. These are works of interactive fiction, basically where you famously like after Choose on Adventure, we had books like Fighting Fantasy and the Lone Wolf series, and these introduced more like gaming concepts where you actually had a character sheet and you had dice, and you would take breaks to have combat during the books and rolling dice. The tagline for Fighting Fantasy was you are the hero. All the books were written in second person. You know you come across, Yes.

You do this, you do that? What are you going to do? And you know you would choose your own adventure at the end of certain passages do you want to go left or right? And then you turn pages. Oh god, so much fun.

There were so many of these. The main Choose Your Adventure trademark series spawned countless examples. I mean, there was one set in Narnia. There were Tolkien based Choose own Adventure. There were Christian remember going to the Fresno Bible House.

You you are the Christian? What do you do in the situations? You are an apostle? That's incredible. I might be jumping ahead.

You might even be talking about this in a little bit. I would make sure to explore all the possibilities. I was going to ask that. Yeah, were you a finger marker. I would mark the places, I would go back, I would retrace the steps.

I mean, talk about getting kids to read. This was the best thing. One book is like reading ten books, yeah, or more. I mean, just what a gift to kids. There's one book and I still haven't looked into it.

But there was one book called Mystery of the Maya. Mm, wait, was a Mystery of the may or? Was it? Inside? UFO fifty four forty?

One of those One of those books has a secret ending that at the beginning of the book in like the little rules page, it says that there is a secret ending that you can't get to by regular means. I still never discovered how to do it, how to break that, how to solve that puzzle. So forgive me. But have you done an episode on this on your channel yet? No?

But why so? This is something I loved as a kid, but something that morphed into what I love now Because so many of the games that I cover on the Dungeon Dive, I think we're informed by this kind of solo gaming experience. Exactly, we could have some kind of interactive fiction without needing somebody to run the game. Right. This means though that we've got to find that book and we've got to figure out what that is.

Or Google search it. Yeah, what is the ending of Mystery of the Mayo? Yeah, exactly, secret ending, it's probably right there. There are there are still new game books being made today and as a matter of fact, the game book technology, the mechanisms have greatly expanded. There's ones that are really super complex with really neat mechanisms where you write down keywords.

You know, it says like if you get to the end of a page, you don't just have a choice, you might have a third choice that says, you know, if you have the keyword trader, you can do this third thing. And they've introduced ways to I would say for them to introduce memory like a video game into the book, where it remembers the things you have done and influences your choices later down the road. That's so cool. I haven't read a Choosion adventure book in many, many years. I really don't have the desire to return to them.

And this is something that all of us probably feel the same about many things. It's just sometimes it's best to leave things as a cherished memory, either that. Or the opposite. Just go down the Abominable Snowman. I'm looking it up right now.

My favorite of these is A kid was The Abominable Snowman. I have a copy of that somewhere in a box probably. There are two categories of books that I've been wanting to reread. That's the original Ian Fleming James Bond books and the Choose your Own adventure books. I feel like in reading those again, it'll open up a passageway to like a nostalgia vortex in me that I haven't been opened up yet.

But so you've read the Bond book. Yeah, when I was in freshman and sophomore in high school, I gobbled those things up, the original ten Ian Fleming Bond books. And that's another instance of me reading things that were inappropriate. But here's that nice can of worms, tangent. I think that the only movie to really capture Ian Fleming's James Bond is On Her Majesty's Seek Service.

That James Bond feels like the book James Bond exactly. The actor what was his name? He didn't want his name? George Lazenby. That movie and Doctor No both followed the books pretty accurately.

The rest took a lot of creative license. That George Layson's bea Bond Movie is fantastic. It's awesome, it's complicated, it's sad, it's fun. The action is so well filmed, so good, and it doesn't get enough credit. The fight scenes have real, real impact.

Yeah, the punch is in stuff true. Better than Roger Moore, Are you serious? God? Even more realistic than movies. The most realistic Bond movie, the most realistic bo.

I'm flummoxed here. I can't understand this. It's a good one. It's a good one, you say, due, there are some things that you just don't know if you want to revisit right, Yeah, I think all three of us are grown to nostalgia. Yeah, yeah, sure, yes, just.

Like nostalgia in the deepest sense is like what I think, It's like a Greek word, right, it was a very and overwhelming longing. Yeah, to return to your home, right Odysseus. Yep. We are constantly chasing that and being drawn into it. Sometimes it's for the better, and sometimes it's just like, ah, man, I don't know, I don't know if I should revisit this.

I get fearful of nostalgia sometimes and that it might bring me back to difficult things in my childhood. But I also have found that there's a way to utilize it as a tool for learning new things that are associated with things that we attached ourselves to a kids, and then also, most significantly, for me to address the difficult things Yeah. Yeah, that I would have otherwise been afraid to or not think to address. Yeah. Have either of you been nostalgic about something and then returned to it and had an overwhelming negative hmm?

They were you remember loving something and you go back to yourack. Now, what the heck was I thinking? I have been thinking about that because with the show, I was like trying to find some different paths something that never caught back on or near missus or stuff like that. And I can't say that there is something that I have difficult memories associated with, and that might just be me protecting myself. Maybe for me, it would probably just be certain times in my adult life that I don't want to think about.

I haven't really hit on anything yet when things pop into my head like oh yeah, I don't think I want to go down that path. Going back and collecting Star Wars and Masters of the Universe, both of those journeys have taken me to some pretty difficult places. I spend a lot of time with toys as a kid by myself, and there are reasons that I've had to discover over time as pertaining to the fact that I had toys and abundance of toys to begin with. So addressing those issues yea with my parents has been helpful to a certain extent. But there are certain things like Popeye, for instance, that returning to the old cartoons that I had fond memories of and realizing racist tropes and things like that, those have been some negative experiences because you don't want that thing to be what it is.

Yeah, right, it's a sadness, but it's also like, Okay, I can move on. The moving on has been a bit of a gift when realizing there are some difficult nostalgia areas how about you? Yeah, I usually when I do try to protect myself. ET was a recent example of this. Just recently watched I don't know, Am I going to like that?

Still? Another recent movie that I watched just for the second time because I wasn't sure how it would hold up, and that was Donnie Darko m and my god, does that movie hold up? It's so good, but it's hard to watch. The original cut, not the director's cut that he ruined that he did so true. Yeah, sometimes the director's cut is not the preferred version.

Yeah, that is one of those cases. The first thing he did was in the director's cut was changed echoing the Bunnyman to n Excess and yeah talking about a giant freaking mistake. Yeah. Yeah. I love both of those bands, but they do different things.

They have different roles, the songs tell different stories, so it's a big difference. There's one director who I will not watch anymore because I don't think his movies would hold up, and those are the early Kevin Smith movies. Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I tried watching Malrats not too long ago, and I just couldn't get on board in the same way as I did when it first came out.

And it could have been the height when it first came out, when. Ken we were all pretty big Kevin Smith fans. Yeah, and I appreciate his perspective. Mark and I went to go see Tuss What was the Tusks? Yeah, holy shit, if that's not a remarkable effort.

Pretty good movie. It's so weird and so much fun. But Kevin Smith's movie Red State is masterful. Yeah, I still have I've seen that. That's like Later, Yeah, later n Smith.

Yeah, it's a very different period, the later films, mid career. Kevin Smith is not bad his earlier stuff. It's a little arrogant. That's the experience I had watching Malrats. Yeah, yeah, trying to watch Molrats.

Speaking of going back and changing things. You didn't watch the revised et, did you, Because there is one of those. I don't think it's available. I don't think it's right. I don't know which one is available.

The only thing I had ever known about was that they had erased some of the guns and replaced them with walkie talkies. Yeah, I was looking for that during those scenes. You probably watched the original. And I didn't notice anything. So either they did a really good job or I don't know.

I don't know what's available now. I streamed it. I think they've gone back to the original on all streaming platforms and pretty much if you. Buy it, it's in the original version. Yeah.

I haven't seen the doctored one since it was first released. However, many years ago. That was I think you'd more notice the CGI facial expressions of et. So if he. Didn't catch that, they did that.

Yeah, they did that too, Okay, Yeah, no, no, there was nothing like that. I had no idea they did that. Holy shit, that sounds terrible. It is terrible. It's an awful thing.

You know. When Spielberg released that, it was you got a theatrical release, I believe. But then when he released it on DVD, he against what George Lucas would do. Spielberg gave us both copies the original film and revised versions, so one wasn't taken away from us. I'm happy to know that the revised version is not really available out there.

No, there was no c g I on ET's face. It stood out like a sort Yeah. Yeah, it's just a lot more expressive. Yeah, and silly and not needed. Not needed.

I'm fine with it being a puppet. A puppet, yeah, yeah, what's wrong with puppets? Nothing? What's wrong with puppets? That's that's an episode.

That's the first album from the fred. I thought you were doing a Jerry Steinfeld bit. What's to do? Two good choices so far. I hope you can top everything with this last.

Well, Mark, I will give you a little clue. The third one is revolving around a very good memory I have hanging out with you. Oh is it tomb Raider? Yes, it is. That's awesome.

That is one of the things that was rolling through my mind when we first asked you to do that. I spent I'm going to say this before you start, Dan, and then I'll shut up. I don't know how many hours sitting on the couch at the Flaming June House watching you play this video game. It consumed our lives. I'm so glad you brought this up, Dan, because I remember two distinct eras in the Flaming June House X files.

Yeah, yeah, that is exactly right for those listening to Flaming June House. That was the name of a band that I was in, and we all lived together, and Mark, you lived with us for a while, right. I lived when you moved out, I took okay to your room okay, and then I'm not sure for even how long. That was less than a year, I think, But you preemptively moved out, I think to save money for the trip to La probably. Yeah, yeah, before you moved out down before I moved in.

God knows how many hours late at night into til the late hours of the night watching you because I'm not. You don't play video games. I can't do it. Yeah, I have very good I or maybe it's a spatial awareness. I can throw a ball into a bucket or whatever, but I cannot manage controlling a video game.

Just can't do it. Yeah. So tomb Raider came out in like ninety six, sounds all right. We had up until then most of our experiences with video games were two D you know, Nintendo, and I got out of video games for a while, you know, street Fighter like more fighting games. But then the PlayStation came along and changed everything for me.

And I remember I got the PlayStation for Christmas that I didn't even ask for it. It was a weird gift my parents gave me, here's a PlayStation. I was like, Okay, I guess I'm back into video games now. And I think one of the first games I bought was tomb Raider. And yes, I remember I got to the house where we were all hanging out and put that game on that first night in Mark.

It was you, me, my sister, and Colin. Oh yeah, Colin, yeah. I played that game for like six hours or something that first night, and all three of you were it was like watching the best movie we had ever seen in our lives. Oh man, just being absolutely the stunned at the freedom of movement and exploration. And I was relying on you guys as like my co pilots, to like, oh what about that over there?

Or remember that switch back there? And that's so cool. We would schedule times like, oh, okay, are you gonna play tonight? Well, I don't know, I can tomorrow after work. Okay, Well we'll start Thursday.

Like we played the whole game. I think you played the whole game with me. I can imagine that definitely went through it at least one time completely. I love that. I mean hours, it was hours.

It would be hours watching somebody else play a video game. And it was glorious. It was amazing. It was so much fun. I remember specifically.

Let's see, you were working at walden Brook in the time. Oh, yeah, I was working at Loo. Yeah. You called me during the day because you had gotten in the player's guide or whatever. Oh like we were stuck on something and you said, well, I looked it up in the guide and I know how to get that.

Funny. How funny. That's like a core memory. That's so funny because I don't remember that at all, But that's amazing. And after Turm Raider, one nextra few years, every November, the next Tom Rader would come out, and I would bring my PlayStation over to your apartment because you were living in an apartment, and we would just kick back and hang out together and play tum Rader and probably take breaks and watch some Argento movies or something.

That was like during that time when Anchor Bay was finally able to watch a lot of those Giallo movies and a lot of the Italian zombie movies were finally coming out, and like good copies that weren't shredded by sensors or were man and scan, and uh, those are just some really fun times. Probably available to rent it Tower Video, right, I'm assuming. Yeah. I remember first seeing those Jallo films showing up on VHS, finding them at Tower Records, and just being blown away by the fact that this is right around the same era where the production of DVDs is spearheading. This movement to include special features and give you widescreen VHS was riding the coattails of all of that.

So many films were just suddenly available that were never available before available, and so many of those movies were watched right there in that Cambridge and was shown apartment complex most of the time in Mark's place. That tomb Raider. I got to tell you, Dan, that was some of the most fun I had back. In the late oh yeah nineties. Yeah, yeah, I.

Mean, I keep repeating it, but I think it's just because most people would think it's odd that watching somebody else play a video game could be so enthralling, so good, and it would be literal hours. There's people making millions of dollars a year now playing video games on YouTube and Twitch. People just watching play video games. What's it called walk through or something like that. Or let's plays and walk throughs.

That is very true. Why do you like watching people play video games? And I often tell them like, well, we used to get together, yes, like a freaking TV show and somebody would be playing and other people would just be watching. Like this isn't some new phenomenon that has been burned because of the Internet. Now people are just making money at it, you know.

Yeah, yeah, it's fun to watch a cool thing, and this is nothing new. I mean, this is surprising. I mean I remember watching my older step brothers play Atari and just watching just watch them, watching them play it, and being like, oh feeling like feeling the tension. Yeah, that same thing happened when Nintendo pushed the boundaries and opened up all these world Super Mario, and you know, sitting watching people play was just as much fun as playing yourself, sometimes more. Fun, sometimes more fun because yeah, you weren't frustrated by the control that you were watching.

Yeah you're yelling at your brother or yelling at your friend like do this, do that, and the involvement in that interaction is a lot of fun. Plus it was social. Remember Paul mcintee. Oh yeahbody, yeah, like man, we used to just sit and play Final Fantasy literally for hours. One of us would play and one of us would watch.

I love that. That's why I find it really odd that there are some people today that are like, well, I don't, like, why would anybody want to watch somebody play a game? It's like it's like watching sports. I mean it's really yep. And when I think about it now and you're you saying those things, it's like, well, it's like watching your favorite sports team.

You're not playing the game exactly. Why wouldn't you just go play tennis? Go play tennis if you like it so much? Mark, you used to dress up like Laura Kroft, you know, yeah, if you were playing. Oh man, imagine Mark is a cosplayers.

You mentioned your sister, Melanie and Colin, and I think the three of us were like the hangars on We're typically the three that lasted the longest if anybody else was there. They faded out after a while and went and lived normal lives and had girl friends and stuff. The three of us would sit there and watch Dan play for hours and hours. And that is so funny that you mentioned that because just about every time I think of you, I think about Yeah, sat for hours a days on end watching this guy play a video game. Yep, that's something else.

It really is one of my most one of my most cherished memories, is that specific few months at that house. Even though Turn Raider is a single player game, playing it in a social environment is what made it really special. Yeah, and it's why, to this day that's my favorite game of all time. Not because the game is so great. I still think the game is pretty good, but it's that time.

It's that all the things that were going on in our lives at that time, there was a lot of really cool things, and so I think that's one of the you know, the powers of having these shared experiences with friends. Yeah. They aren't just things, right, I mean, your toys aren't just these hunks of plastic, you know. Books aren't just dead trees bound in cardboard. You know.

It's like the things that we associate with everything we enjoy is what makes them special to us. You know, That's exactly and that's why that's the point of this show right there, he said, if we've never articulated it very well and just did for us so yeah, exactly. That's why we all love physical media, right, Like you can go to your shelf and pull off a book and remember the time that you read. It, yes, absolutely, or discovered this author, and the feeling of like, oh well, this really hits with me as you're halfway through a book or a movie or whatever it is. Yeah, I mean laser discs, like Mark, my first experience with a laser disc with you think think the first one we watched.

I think it was either The Exorcist or Taxi Driver, and I probably don't which one is. Probably Taxi Driver. Yeah, that was one of the first that I had. Yeah, my first laser disc experiences with Mark with Taxi Driver. Maybe Dan, you were there, man that might have done.

That was a big I mean because laser discs weren't new. Oh, they were already like ten years old by that point. Those video discs things that you shove into the machine. And the fact that you could see the disc and put it into the player like a record, and the clarity like that clarity was just mind blowing. And We're just sitting in the studio apartment in Cambridge and was seawan you know, watching it on a regular TV.

Tiny square TV. Yeah, it still felt like, oh my god, we're in the movie theater. The clarity is remarkable. And the revelation of like you mentioned with DVD, So this was pre DVD still and I always thought, boy, this would be great if these were the same size of CDs. Instead of an LP.

Yeah, a lot of them because of how much Yeah, a lot of them, because of how much information was on them. You had to flip ye, so they weren't even one disc. I know for Taxi Driver specifically, was a two disc and you had to flip, so it was basically four sides to fit all the information on there. But just the revelation of oh, this is how this guy intended me to see it, or this woman if it was a female director, you know, not pan and scan TV, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. That was my first introduction to that concept of like, oh, well, this is how I want to watch all movies.

Why aren't they sold like this? Why as an all vhs like this? Why don't they show them on TV like this? I don't know if people realize what a huge change letterboxing was to home video releases. No, I don't know if people realized how we used to watch movies where we weren't even seeing the full picture.

Yeah. I will never forget the moment that I saw the Harry Dean Stanton's scene an Alien when he's in that giant room with all the change and the water dripping the water. Yeah, I had no understanding of the depth of that room until I saw it on widescreen and it was revelatory. And there are people that didn't like it. The black bars, the black bars is not with TV.

Remember that complaining about the black bars they saw It happens though it still happens now. It happens when something is presented as in its original format that. Was square square, I have black bars on the side now. So we're going off on a tangent here, But The Simpsons is a good example of this where they were presented as they were originally made square roughly square, and then is it Disney plus it. Has Yeah, Disney Plus changed.

It changed the aspect ratio, so now you're missing the tops and bottoms of the exactly because people didn't. Like the they zoomed in on a four by three. Oh my god. They do it on a lot of shows. So now it's panning and scanning up and down.

Well, it's just static. It's just static. You can tell the difference, especially in the Simpsons because you can practically see the paint brush. Yeah, because it's so isn't hot enough? Yeah, it's not the correct So they do this with a lot of shows.

We watched Murder, she wrote, and on one of the channels they've done that. They have turned it into a rectangle and I'm like, why are you and kind of motion smooth it as well. That's that's the worst they may have AI treated it, Yeah. Because it's like way too smooth. I'm like, what in the fuck are you doing?

Just show it square. People need to figure out that there are different aspect ratios different The old Man Tangent. Over for me. I know, I'm going to follow off the old Man Tangent with this. It's gotta be somebody from our generation that finally gets around to making a movie that's solely pan and scan.

I know it's. Deliberately deliberate and scam. It's bound to happen eventually. So they shoot a wide screen and then they go in, they crop it, and then they move. It's going to be Wes Anderson's next movie.

I remember the early, the early days of film forums online and Pain and Scam. Yeah, I'm gonna watch that that Pain and Scam copy. Love it, old man Tuck. Yeah, it's funny though. Aspect ratios is one of those things that people just don't understand.

And still to this day, every time I put in an old filmation Masters of the Universe cartoon, I gotta go to the aspect ratio, change it so that it's correct side the black bars on each side of this widescreen TV. It's a journey in itself. It's exciting to be able to have that option. Yeah, it still. Bothers me to this day.

Every once in a while, we're trying to find a movie to watch and the only place to watch it is on this specific channel or whatever. M hmm. And we start watching it and I check IMDb, check the aspect ratio, and I'm like, this is supposed to be fucking wide screen. I mean, it's wider screen than our old TVs because it's fit into a sixteen x nine frame as opposed to a four x three frame. But I still grumble, like, God, damn, this is supposed to be Voyd's screen.

Yeah, why is a cable channel doing this? Yeah? Especially when they have access to all of it. Right, here's a question for you guys, kind of related. What do you do if you go to a friend's house to watch a movie, they show the movie and you realize that they have the motion smoothing turned on on their television?

Do you want the fuck out? As what you tell them? Do you tell them? Or do you just let it go? See?

I haven't had that experience with a friend, but when my sister, they seem to have it on sometimes when they first get a new TV, and I'm like, uh. Luckily though, my nephew is very much like me. He knows, so he. Knows now like he wouldn't let that go for more than two minutes. He'd be adjusting it.

Our first HDTV, we brought it home and I'm like, why does this look like? Yeah? Exactly, And so then I had to find for every TV brand it's different, different emotion smoothing or it's like a game. You know, you can adjust it for playing video games, and it was that setting for our video and now it seems like when we bring them home, it isn't set like that. It's not cranked up to ten.

It's like, Yeah, you. Walk through a costco though, and when all their TVs are playing, they all are set that way. It's like a factory setting. People think that that's how HD looks. Yeah, that's right, right, it's supposed to be smooth.

Now it was. Supposed to look like a soap opera. What's really great about getting older is that the only friend whose house I'm going over to watch a movie at is Mark. There are zero other social options for me, so I know that where I'm going is going to be a say place. Yeah, we'll have it set up properly.

Yes, exactly, it'll be set up probably, and if it's not, I'm going to hear it and we're all gonna notice, and it's going to be you know, we'll just fix it. True. This is true. Yeah, you're like friends. I don't go over to friends Elsa's don't.

Do that anymore. And for family, if that's happening on their TV, the best thing to do is just turn a blind eye. It's hard, man, Yeah, it's turn a blind eye. It's an assault on the eyes. It is.

It is so tomb Raider, Yeah, that was it. Those were really really fun times. Yeah, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. I remember those times so fondly, and just Tom Rader was such a neat game, and I think it just tapped into gen X completely with its embrace of Indiana Jones and and that kind of adventure that is so prevalent in so many of the things that we enjoy, right, that sense of adventure, sense of discovery, of finding new things. And yeah, thanks for letting me share these things with you guys.

Yeah, good choices. I think about those days often actually, and the other stuff that went on. They're playing ping pong and the garage. Yeah yeah, And like we mentioned with Jeff, you know that is Cambridge em with sean period for me and for Ronnie around the same time. You know, we lived in those places separately and then at the same time.

And it was all ninety six, ninety seven, ninety eight, ninety nine. A remarkable era, a lot of good memories. I feel like every week there was something new to discover. What was great about our little troop of friends was that if one of us discovered it, we were sharing it with the other. We would all get on board and all get excited about it.

Yeah, and sharing that with a tight knit group like what we had. The rest of the folks have gone on and they're doing their thing, and we can talk to Jeff and we can talk to you, Dan, and it's like no time has gone by. I think that that's amazing. Yeah, we're very lucky to have had those years. Yeah, it's good to have interesting friends.

Yeah, yes, that's very true. I'll take a train up to where you live and once you play tune Raider now even. So, yeah, that's going to be a beautiful train ride, we'll tell you. Yeah, yeah, a long train ride. But but hey, also, if you guys ever want to do another episode on David Lynch, like a Top three David Lynch movies, well you know, oh.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I mean, we'll be exploring more, but we can always do a companion piece. You guys have only done up through the eighties. Yeah. Yeah, but I like that idea too, Dan of doing top.

Because I think he's like all of our favorite director right, yeah. Pretty much? Yeah, yeah, I agree, Yeah for sure. I think we have different opinions too, because like I'm not a huge fan of Blue Velvet, and I'll mark you of Yeah, you lean. More towards firewalk with me, A.

Firewalk with me. Yeah, yeah, it would be a mix. It wouldn't be like everybody's hitting the exact same thing. For sure. That's a good idea.

I'm gonna write that down. Yeah. I like that idea too. We'll be having Jeff back for something, I'm sure. And oh yeah so that's yeah.

Stephen King too, we could Stephen King. Oh god, yes, that'd be amazing. I'm writing that down. Good job boys, good job Dan. Well.

I would take us out, but I don't do the outro. Ronnie always does because I never remember what to say. First thing I gotta say is, folks, go over and subscribe to the Dungeon Dive. Dan desperately needs six or seven thousand more subscribers. Get on over there.

Yeah, you're gonna have to promote this on your shows. Yeah, I'll send you some of the audio or something, Dan, and you can create a wonderful video for your channel. I will for sure, especially put it like on the we have a forum now and oh awesome Dungeon Dive Patreon. I'll put that up there. That's great.

I try to talk about other things on the Dungeon Dive and usually people don't care, right, I understand. They have a particular interest. Dan, thank you so much for being here. Thanks Dank, that was super fun. Glad to catch up with you guys.

When you come down to visit again, we'll go to a book barn. Definitely out what they have. It's some Mexican food writer. All of that. All of that.

We're all going to dress like Laura Cross. That's right, it's gonna be amazing, all right. Remember, folks, until we meet again, have fun. Definitely stay weird and definitely keep collecting. That's right, What's wrong with Puppets?

Before after Before before After. The Cambridge m Sean is a Weird Way media podcast