Episode 30: The Vandal / The Harris Incident / The Radical

Welcome to the Life and Times of Captain Barney Miller podcast. I'm your host. Mike White joined me. Of course, is the rookie Chris Dash You add my fish sticks for breakfast and now I've got a hard budd Oh what a weird man that man is. I love it's something or you love it?

Oh that's right, I mean, thank you, sir. On this episode of the Life and Times of Captain Barney Miller podcast, we were talking about three episodes of the original series Barney Miller. We're talking about three episodes from the fifth season, episodes nine eleven, The Vandal released November ninth, nineteen seventy eight, The Harris Incident release November thirtieth, nineteen seventy eight, and the Radical released December seventh, nineteen seventy eight, a date that will live in infamy. Chris. Really strong episodes this time around.

One of the best episodes of this show and a turning point I think in the show overall, and not this episode, but I think the next one we're talking about. But yeah, this is These three episodes are the three strongest, all at once, that I think we've ever seen of this show. Genuinely, like I you know, I've been reading Barney Miller in the Files of the Old One two, our good friend Otto Bruno's book, and he talks a lot about, you know, this season of the show, because it's a changing period for the show. Obviously, Jack Sue is on his way out because he's been diagnosed with cancer and he would pass away, and you have the kind of influx more of Ron Carey into the picture. So honestly, it finally feels like, in a lot of ways, like if this is why you're here and you've been enjoying this, you're gonna be getting this for three more seasons.

This is this is this feels like that moment for me at least. This is, to your point, the final appearance of Jack Sue oh Man, which is really sad, but at least he goes out on a good joke as far as the filing goes, because don't you know, we walk in and the whole precinct, well not the precinct, but the old one too, the bullpen has been vandalized. Thus the vandal and pretty soon, oh boy, there's some doubt about Levitt and what he might be up to. I didn't for one second think you would actually be Levied though, no, no, no way. But I do appreciate the jokes from Harris about it possibly being Levitt, and I like that he is basically spinning yarns in order to try and impress one of the prisoners, Laurence Snepp, who is a television executive who's in charge of programming, and he has well, he didn't really get into an argument.

It was another gentleman, Jay Gerber as Lloyd Edelson, who basically attacked him in a cafe and was all on him about the bad programming. We are getting very meta in this episode. Howard Hoenig is a very recognizable actor for me right now because I just watched Airplane and he plays the husband of the woman who starts shooting chicken eggs out of her mouth. Is he the guy who never goes for another cup of her coffee or is that a different person. That's a different that's a different person.

Okay, yeah, he never has two cups of coffee at home. He Yeah, not only is he an airplane one, he's also an airplane too the sequel, But though as a different character less said about that movie, the better I think Airplane too, I kind of like that movie. I well, then I will reserve of any further judgment until I watch it again. But I have seen it only once and I don't remember laughing. So I remember William Shatner was in it.

That's right. He Shattner's in it, right, That's right. Okay, we will talk more about that, I'm sure when we kick off a new podcast that we're doing all about Naked Gun. Yeah, we'll be talking about Airplane and Airplane too, because those are the lead ups to that show. But it's funny because in this episode, there's actually a bit that is in a new comedy show on Netflix called I Think You Should Leave Tim Robinson Show.

The Chris Lloyd bit in this episode feels very similar to a bit in that episode in that show, where Will Forte plays a guy who gets on an airplane next to Tim Robinson. And I won't spoil it, but if you've seen this episode of this show, that little skit has a very similar payoff and kind of set up to Chris Lloyd going you don't remember me, you ruin my life and Barney does the whole I don't know who the hell you are? And in that Tim Robinson's sketch. It's very similar, and I don't think it's inspired by it. But I like this this setup of we don't know who it is, and at the end it's he doesn't even know who that guy is.

He doesn't remember him. And apparently Barney was a real shit heel back in the day, trying to make points. I guess, so i's glittering. I audibly guessed. When Christopher Lloyd showed up in the Life, he just he's a He is a house of fire when he shows up.

Oh my god, I was so happy. And this is I mean, this is prime Christopher Lloyd. This is Taxi Chris Lloyd, isn't it? Is this even before Taxi. I'm trying to remember when Taxi happens.

This is like, get our friend father Malone in here. He's the one who does the Taxi podcast. This would have been the perfect episode for him, would but alas so, this episode's in seventy four Taxi comes out. Yeah, so Lenny's the character from Taxi is not like this character. No, No, Reverend Jim is very todate.

This is actually the same year the Taxi comes out, So he is a house on fire at this point. Yeah, and this is his first appearance. Yeah, I don't believe we're going to get him again as carew Yeah. Man, And what's crazy is it's twenty twenty two and I just watched a new movie with Christopher Lloyd in it, Spirit Halloween the movie. Yeah he's going strong.

I mean, yeah, nice guy too. Oh very him. Met him once at a comic con and sat and talked to me for a couple of minutes, unlike a lot of the people. So I love seeing him in anything I know. Obviously, back to the Future is kind of his I guess I don't know.

I guess that's what most people know him from. But man, he's just he's great, and he's a great voice actor, he's a great character actor. He's a great lead actor. And yeah, he steals the show here, like to the point where you wish he was on the show more because his chemistry with everybody is really good. Yeah, he just comes in and he is on fire and seething.

And how dare Barney who is a dirty maha ha ha? Yeah it's I love that. Oh man. This episode just sings, I mean, the a plot with all of that stuff going on with the vandalism, and then you've got the b plot with the television executive, and we even get a shout out to Colombo, which was fantastic. Yeah, very happy about that.

And yeah, it, this whole thing is fantastic. I love that the other guy who had attacked the exact is just all about the bad shows that are out there, name checking so many great bad shows, including one of my favorites, my Mother the Car. And the best thing is all of these shows that he's dropping are real shows, so other the Cars. I recently heard about it or read about it in Auto's book, and I had to look it up because I could not believe it was a real thing. Oh yeah, yeah, what did someone do too much fucking cocaine one day in the seventies.

There's a good idea. It was nineteen sixty five. Sorry, sorry, they were doing more cocaine before apparently. Yeah. Yeah, like it's it's is it less ridiculous than BJ and the Bear more ridiculous?

You think it's more ridiculous? Yeah, it's more ridiculous. Interesting, Okay, yeah yeah. And then we even get a nice Network reference, so that was pretty good too, even though Network had been two years gone. But that was nice.

That yeah, that topical. Yeah. I wanted to mention another thing about this episode that I realized while reading Auto's book. So, Ron Carrey's real name is not Ron Carrey, carry is a stage name. Ron Carrey's last name is Sasania, which is just a different spelling of my mom's maiden name.

Really, which was insane to find out. Yeah, and I mentioned all this because in the span of three episodes, Oh boy, in the span of three episodes, ron Carey is now second or third favorite on this show. Like it, like just like that. I'm aghast at myself for even saying it. Yeah, yeah, he's he has gone from insufferable to lovable little love it.

Yeah, and not only lovable, but also at points somewhat a voice of reason. Well, and he shows strange he shows backbone in this episode, which I really like. I like that confrontation between him and Bernie and just you know, are you asking everyone about their personal life? Right? Oh and and and then at the end that scene between him and Barney is just holy shit.

I mean, for the love of God, like this show when it I know it's a comedic show, but there are dramatic moments and we'll talk about it in the next episode, almost almost exclusively. But the end of this episode gives you an idea kind of where the next episode's going in the ability for characters who have not it's not that they don't talk to each other, but they're not talking to each other about serious things most of the time. Most of the time it's just Tony Shean's writing, just singing off the page and everybody just cracking wise. But they're such well thought out characters that when they do have to confront one another, it feels real. It doesn't feel like it's a forced issue.

These are well thought out, fully fleshed out, and it fully realized characters at this point, and it shows it really does, especially with that scene at the end where, like he said, Levitt just said sticks into all of them. It's like, you know, hey, I showed some fucking restraint like you guys didn't. Thanks, which is the thing that everybody assumes Levit's going to be, which is not showing any restraint because most of the time he doesn't yeah yeah, which I think leads to why maybe the two of us weren't the biggest fans of his character was because it was just kind of this dopey little dinghis who would show up and make some not not that they were unfunny, but he always seemed like he was inserting himself.

And this time, with this episode definitely the next one, it feels like he is as part of this precinct and the guys in the bullpen, he is just as much a part of it as as as Harris, as well Jehoe. It's as Yamana as Dietrich. And I appreciate that because the show, you know, for as bigger problems as we had with Levitt for the last four seasons, all of a sudden, I mean not all of a sudden, but it's it's taken a very quick turn of his character being written in a more reserved and nuanced way. I think it's as as quick as the way that we went from a luger to oh luger, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I look, I'll agree with you one and and look, you know, the most of the people writing the show in the first four three seasons were not the you know, Danny Arnold's Golden Boys, Tony Shean and Rhinholdwigi and those I mean ryin Ho Weigi's name isn't on this script, but Tony Shehan's name is, and you'll find Tony Shan's name on a lot of scripts obviously, because like I said, him and Rhinholdwigi are kind of the two the left and right arm of Danny Arnold, and then they become obviously they you know, they end up running the show when Danny Arnold leaves, and I mean, my god, just when it's the writing team who gets it.

It really just there there has not been a funnier show about police officers that also manages to create characters that you like that are really these feel like real police officers more so than shows like Law and Order or Hill Street I mean, Hill Stree Blues is pretty close, but this, this is like the commune version of Hill Street Blues. Is kind of where where I'm coming down on this show now, because again, yeah, it's funny, but these are real, like, these feel like real people, and it's and I'm so glad that the writing team on this show understands the voices of each of these characters so well that they can execute them in a way that, yeah, like we've been saying, we get a one eighty on Levitt essentially in the fifth season.

We have done a one eighty on Levitt since we started this season. Oh yeah, yeah, we're like, what halfway through it at this point, at a little under halfway, so you know, only only up from here. But yeah, this is this episode really goes to show that you don't you don't necessarily have to write Levitt a certain way for his character to be funny and have an impact. And I appreciate I appreciate that because also they talk about him a whole hell of a lot, and he's not around most of the time, which is also testament to ron Carey's ability as an actor. He makes the most with like the three minutes he's given.

Yeah, yeah, I gotta just echo everything that you said. He's just he really just shows up in this episode, and really it's a much better episode for it, and I kind of like that there's there's not really in my mind, there's not really any doubt that he didn't do this, but then that Harris is just showing off, but and manages to convince people like, oh maybe it was maybe maybe he's disgruntled because he keeps trying to get that promotion and he never does. He's got short guy syndrome testament to Harris's character too, because he's such a charismatic actor that you don't you don't dislike him for it. Yeah, no, exactly. You don't feel like, well, this guy is antagonizing Levitt because he doesn't like him.

It's just like, well, I mean it's logical. I mean it's kind of a logical conclusion to come to the way Levitt talks about certain things. And yeah, there was no doubt in my mind. And again, I don't think there was really a doubt in the mind of the characters in the show. But at the same time, you can understand why they would come to that conclusion, given how hard he's driving at being part of their little family up in the top of the precinct.

And I think what's funny is by the end of this episode he is yeah, he is like and there's no going back from that. At this point. It's made very and then at God in the next episode it's like, yeah, well, can we just can we just talk about the next episode? It's the best epode, one of the best episodes of television I've ever fucking seen in my lifetime. I got chills watching this episode.

So let's set it up a little bit. The Harris incident. So we've got the return of the one and only ed Peck ed Peck who is on the hash episode and he was the one who was talking to Fish about Bernice and basically like it sounds like he and Bernice had gone out a long time ago. And I have the note guy who dated Bernice is randomly back and then I put and then I put, where's Mike. I'm still waiting they're bringing this guy back that that was so fucking long ago ago it was on the show.

Yeah, it blew my mind when he walked in because I recognized him out out right and I remember what a fucking shit heal he was then and continue your setup, because boy, this right, So we've got this whole Hey, Harris is late? Yeah, you know two times this week three if you're counting. Man, way to go, Dietrich just throwing him under the vandisburg Man oh man, And yeah that's uh so Harris is uh he's late again. We get a phone call, Oh, Harris has been shot at what is this whole thing? We think, oh, maybe it's another incident, Like you know, Barney was just shot recently what a finger or whatever it was, you know, right right, had people have these incidents, but it's actually a case of him being shot at by two police officers that he was trying to foil a crime, had a gun in his hand, and these to a whole uniform officers pull up and start taking pot shots at him and man when they come in and they start to give their explanation, and we've got the younger guy, Walt Darvek portrayed by Rick Walm I think you would say it he comes this close to dropping the N word on TV.

Mmmm. We thought it was just another yeah, yeah shit, yeah, I was, uh, I was shocked by what this episode is. And also you know these are this is Rhino Weegee, Shelley Zelman and Wally Dalton who had written uh, I guess before this it was the prisoner and the accusation and the accusation was another kind of strange episode, similar to this one, where it's it's it's not really about the jokes here like it is because the reactions that you're seeing are funny, I guess, but it's not. But it's not a funny. I mean, it's a funny episode but it's not funny in the way that the last one was, right right.

I mean, we've got our b plot of Michael Lombard, who is making a living now. He used to be in finance, went stockbroker or whatever, worked on Wall Street. He got fired a long time ago, and rather than try to get another job, he ends up begging. He asked somebody wo he'd be cashed out some stuff. He goes to go back home one day on a train.

He doesn't have any money. He begs for a ticket, manages to have somebody give him money, and he gets a charge out of it, realizes that he's a really good beggar. So we've got that storyline going on. And I really liked that storyline. I really liked how he agree he and Gail going back and forth.

It's fantastic when he's basically begging him or the piece of gum and begging him for the phone call. And I really just yeah, that interplay is fantastic, and Max Gale or Wojohoitz is right on point. I mean, the guy is full of shit. I mean he is, you know, he mentions on the phone, Oh, make sure that made takes care of the kids. Like yes, But at the same time, what's crazy is if you look into it, if you actually go and panhandle or bag or whatever the hell you want to call it, you can make a decent living doing it.

Like like a couple I think I remember reading something you know, a couple of years ago, was like twenty or thirty thousand dollars a year, and just putting yourself at the behest of other people is probably the best way of putting it. He makes a lot more than Colombo does as a detective, exactly, exactly. Yeah, and somehow looks just about his shabby frankly, yeah, he's Michael Lombard plays that hangdog look real well. It's it's very effective until it's until it's obvious it's a on. Yeah, the whole split in the back of the suit jacket and everything.

When his wife comes in, she's why you dressed like a bum? Because I am a bum. I'm a dirty bum. I mean, this is one of the strongest be stories that we've had in a long time. This really worked.

And yeah, that whole like, oh man, Woejoe's just being a dick to this homeless guy and you know, how dare he But then he's just like his gut basically tells him no, there's something up with this and really calls him out, which I liked. Yeah, I know, it's it's a it's a great B plot because again it does tie into the A plot because it's all about appearances, and that's the the initial crux of this episode is two white officers assuming that an African American detective is a thief. And we get kind of the inverse of it with with Michael Lombard's character. But I cried at the end of this episode when wojahoits I lost it. I fucking lost it over Barney miller Man, Like when he when he's voice cracks, It's just like, where what is the show we're watching?

Like again, it's not this is a comedy all intensive purposes, but this episode, like okay, yeah, because it's funny. The Harris stuff, it's serious at first, is a little serious. Yeah, there's but there's definitely a lot more comedy. This whole thing of the younger officer with the back of the bandage on his nose and just we you know, we hate this uh ed peck character so much. I mean, I hate it's really easy to hate him.

Oh man, he was so great. He was this recurring character on Happy Days called Officer Kirk I think it was, and he was always just coming in and trying to bust Fons these chops and stuff. And it's just like, you don't bust Fonds these chops, you know. So he has that for me going. But man, in the two appearances that he does on Barney Miller, all of Barney Miller, this is the second one, he just comes in.

He's a dick so perfect. Man, Man, this guy can nail that role. And he and you know what, I would even say he's better than the actor who plays Scanlon. Oh yeah, Like the actor who plays Scanlon is hateable, but also like, you know, he's just a cop dickhead, Like this guy feels like this feels intentional, This feels motivated, and again it's racially motivated, which is the obvious obviously what the episode's driving at. But I'm so glad that they take that part, the Rick Wallen ed Peck thing where they're the two white officers you shot at Harris.

I like how they just get rid of it after about halfway through the episode, because the more interesting part of this episode is what comes after when Harris just goes, are you fucking with me? That these two assholes are gonna walk out of here without a fucking anything. Nobody's gonna say anything about this. I even have it written down, you know. He's talking about we're gonna do it by the book, and Harris goes the book written by the man.

Yeah yeah, and it's like, yeah no, and you realize very quickly how out of sorts. Harris all of a sudden feels in his own precincts, surrounded by people that again are his friends and his colleagues, and he makes it known, and you know, then you get into a polish joke that you know, oh my god, he which is pretty funny. Oh my god. It's almost good that Nick isn't in this episode, because now we just have Harris as the lone minority in there, and we've talked about you know, well, I just got the whole polish thing, Abba said, Levine Leavitt has the short thing. And when Levitt tries to get on Harris's level by talking about you know, oh yeah, you know, I'm discriminated against because I'm short, and You're just like, oh my god, you're so tone deaf, but it just it works like nothing in this episode.

Like I mean, for fuck's sake, man, this thing comes out nineteen seventy eight, it's twenty twenty two. We're still having the same conversations. You know, we're still feeling the effects of the whole George Floyd thing, and just, oh my god. It's like well, and I mean, I mean, they fucking say it right at the end. I mean, how Lyndon goes, you know, there's there's bad days, and then Harris goes, there will be more, Oh yeah, but we'll handle it like that.

There will be We're having this dialogue fifty plus years later, because we're gonna be having this dialogue until you and I are long dead in the ground. It's not going anywhere. And that's a good and bad thing in a lot of ways. Like if we weren't having that dialogue, you could say that we lost sight of what is important about having that discussion. But at the same time, like you said, I would like to live in a society where that's not something we need to be talking about.

But I think at the end of the day, it's it's rather unrealistic, which is what I appreciate this episode gets at it's like, as much as we don't want to have these conversations, as much as we don't want to, like Max Scale says, I never saw you is black, right, And it's like, it's heartbreaking, it's this is again. There's an episode of the show called Rape that handles that topic so poorly, And I didn't have any inkling of an idea that when I started watching this episode it was going to handle the question of racial interplay between colleagues and people who work together in a serious way, more serious than the episode called Rape. Did God bless Gnome Pitlick for the way that he's shooting the end of this episode, where it is Harris in a one shot and then Woe Joe, Dietrich and Ernie and a three shot and just cutting back and forth between these to just show how isolated Harris is and that the rest of these white guys are standing there.

It just he really does a good job with that. And yeah, you just that there's the anger, the frustration, and it's frustration on multiple people's parts. You know, the frustration that Will Joe has and this is like we've talked this season hasn't been a very strong Wojoe season. Like, no, we've complained about him a lot. It was he was number two to Barney, and it was basically it was kind of like Barney is the father figure and Wojoe's kind of the arrant's son who's he's putting on the right path.

And this episode he is back and he is just man oh man, Max Scale is just given it. And this obviously it was nominated for an Emmy, and so it just really makes a lot of sense that this episode of all the episodes for this season stood out so much that it was Emmy nominated, as it should have been. And I don't know if it won or not, but it did good. No Pittlick won for direction fucking a good yeah, yeah no. And that's and to your point, the way none Pittlick shoots it, the snappiness of the dialogue, the real conversation that they're having.

It's not some bullshit conversation. This is a conversation that could be taken place today. It probably has taken place today in a workplace near you. Frankly, because again, there's no we live in a very complex set of societal circles and it's hard to navigate all of them correctly. And there are people like ed Peck out in the world who don't give a shit about navigating them, and then there are people like me and you who give a shit about navigating them, like how or you know, like Barney, like Wojo.

But sometimes I don't understand. Sometimes we just don't understand, and sometimes we can't empathize directly, but we can sympathize because again, look, I'm gay, but I'm a white guy to anybody else. You're a white guy to anybody else. Like you know, it's there. There is always going to be that disconnect, and I am so glad that this episode takes it upon itself to say, Okay, I'm going to present to you how different people react to this situation through each of these unique characters like land Sperg who goes, well, you know, maybe we're talking about this the wrong way, to Ron Carey being the guy who you know, tries to say, well, I I get you being discriminated against because I'm discriminated against too.

It's like, if he had been a gay character, it would have made perfect sense. But given that he's just a diminutive guy. I mean, yeah, I'm sure he is discriminated against, but it's not the same. It is discrimination, but it's a different kind of discrimination. And people do get discriminated against for being short.

I mean, that is a thing. It's just it's not it's not comparatively the same, right, Well, it's funny, you know, as a very fat person, I feel that a little bit. But in the next episode, and I'm not trying to take us to the next episode yet because we've got a lot more to talk about with this one. But in the next episode, you get Stuart Penkin who's just like throwing himself at fat jokes and making everything like, oh, you're making this because I'm fat. He's like self persecuted about this stuff.

And it's just like wow, okay, like that's the wrong way, but this episode is the right way. And yeah, this whole like Barney trying to explain to Woe Joe what Harris is feeling, and that you can't understand it. You cannot understand how another person feels. One you can empathize, but you can't really put yourself in that person's shoes. And then yeah, that fucking poll a joke is so good.

And then when Dietrich pulls it back out at the end, Oh my fucking great. And that's the way you do it. Man. You have this super super serious episode, Like right towards the end, we get super serious, you get that moment that you're talking about, I'm getting shivers, You're busting out crying, and then you end it on the fucking joke And you fucking nailed this episode. Man, Yeah, I know, and you're totally right.

And you know what it speaks to. It speaks to a style of writing that we don't get to see a lot anymore because most of the time, now, if this was being written in twenty twenty two, they would have been a joke halfway through that conversation to undercut the emotional weight of everything that we're seeing. And there are jokes, but they don't get in the way of what they're talking about. It's more people just going like like I don't know, like just grasping at straws and then yeah, you get Landisper coming in and really just putting a pin in it. But if this were I not to gang up on Marvel, but if this were a Marvel thing, it would have had a joke halfway through that scene to undercut the emotional weight.

And I am glad that they just they just leave it. They just leave it there and they let you sit with it for a second. And as an audience member in seventy eight, I've got to wonder what the response was. Obviously it gets nominated for an Emmy. Obviously it wins the Emmy for Direction, so people were very receptive to it.

But like you said, we're still having this conversation, all right, It's just one more drop in the bucket of a conversation worth having constantly being given a time and place to have it. That feels timeless because it's so it's surrounded by characters that are in this episode at least stand ins for people at the time or stand ins for people in our time now, and that's what makes it feel timeless. And yeah, I'm glad Jack Sue is not in this episode. I hadn't even thought about that. But to bring that back to what you had said, like, yeah, it's or even Gregory Sierra or even Abe Vogoda, because then you could have had three people who I mean again, Max, you know Wojahowitz for all intents and purposes, Yeah, he's polish, but he is white.

He is white. I mean, you know you look white. There's nothing, there's nothing that there's to be done about that. So yeah, it's it, but Yamana or Vagoda or Gregory Sierra like then it's then then you then the chemistry of that scene changes, and I don't think it would be I don't think it would be nearly as effective if you've got one other character going, well, I get it, I'm on your side, because then it just it makes it, like you said, less isolationary towards the end, with Harris standing back and really telling everybody how he feels and in a lot of ways, you know, I said it in the opening. This this feels like an inflection point for the show.

Like now the characters all are kind of on the same page, especially Levit because he tries to leave and Barney goes, no, you're fucking staying here. You're part of this, And that was that was the moment where I was like, all right, Like, the show has made it clear what the expectations for me are as an audience member moving forward. He's part of this and if you're gonna include him in anything to make it obvious to us where he's stands with the precinct do it in this episode, and they did. This is my favorite episode of the show so far. Like, maybe there will be another episode that's better, but this episode's rather highly rated on IMDb, not that that matters, but it won an Emmy.

Yeah, and it handles a topic that's rather serious, like very serious, just as serious as rape, but actually, you know, gives it the emotional weight that it deserves and the emotional space to really not just be a gag asked like a fucking rape episode was. There were no laughs in that part at the end. There was a laugh track going off, but during the rape episode there's eighty thousand jokes about you know, mirror or a spousal rape, and it's like, this is not funny, regardless of what the laugh track says. Yeah, well it's funny when you think about it. Ed Peck has been in the two best episodes of Bernie Miller that we've seen so far, the hash episode in this episode, Yeah, I agree, it said peck ed Peck the secret MVP of Barney Miller, Right, I mean, sure, why not.

It's good a person as any, but I really think I mean, you obviously have the writing. It's just I mean, good Lord Wally Dalman, Shelley's Elman along with Ryan Holdwigi just we know Rhin Hold Weigi can write very well. Obviously Danny Arnold giving him as much kind of of a part of the show as he did. But Wally Dalton and Shelley's Elman are not seen as like Danny Arnold's Golden Children. They just right for the show.

And man, I imagine when this script was turned in, everybody just looked around the room and said, holy shit, what is this? And you know what it shows on screen because this is a standout episode of television, not just Barney Mellin the third episode we're going to talk about It's yeah, it could be more serious, and there are a couple serious moments and I almost wish they would have dealt with that a little bit more so. The third episode is the Radical and in this one we've got an ABC maybe even the de plot in here. We've got a lot of stuff going on. So let's talk about all the ones up until a So one of them is we've got Stuart Penkin, as I mentioned, Arthur Moreau, who is an overweight cat burglar it's a one joke thing.

There's really not a whole lot. That's one joke for thirty minutes, and that's really sad. I love Stuart Penkin. I have interviewed him within the last year and a half. He is a genuinely amazing human being and I love him to death in everything.

I mean, he's in one of my favorite TV shows as Earl. Earl fucking Sinclair on Dinosaurs. Yeah, what a waste. I'm sorry. He's an absolute shame that he is in this episode having to make fun of his own weight.

And he'll be back, I mean, which I'm glad about. When I looked and saw that he's going to be back, all I could say was, all right, I will I will suffer through this or excuse for just constant fat jokes? Right, Yeah, it's it's kind of painful. Let's see what else we got. We got Luger coming in, and Luger kind of plays into the A story and I guess that's pretty much.

I think that's all we have. And then we've got our A story, which is Corey Fisher, very tall, Corey Fisher looking like a young John to Turro to me, yeah, when he came in. I was very much so. No, it's not to to Corey Fisher coming in and he is arrested for shoplifting by WOJO, and he is more than willing to tell Wojoe that his name really isn't Jonathan Dodd, it's Gerald Morris or vice versa. I can't remember how it goes, but basically, no, he's not just this kind of disheveled, hippie looking guy who is stealing from a department store or a communion store.

He's actually a wanted radical from the late sixties who did all kinds of crimes in order to protest the Vietnam War, and that could be really interesting. I think they get close to it, but they don't go all the way. There is some really there's some good moments, but they just don't push it far enough in my opinion. Well, and I think that's primarily because they end up giving the Stuart Pankin storyline so much time and again, like, I don't want to drag because it's it's it is one not Stuart Pankin's fall. No, it is one hundred percent a Tony Shean, Lee Grant and Danny Arnold problem.

But every time they show him next to someone, like when he's next Corey Fisher, or when he's brought in, it's like, you know, the moment he opens his mouth, it's this persecution complex. And it's not funny. Not because I'm overweight and I don't find it funny, not because skinny people don't find it funny. It's because it's not funny. It's just one Like you said, it's one joke spread over too much bread, Like one singular joke, just gone over and over and over to the point where's that you can't polish this turd anymore.

Stop. And with the Corey Fisher character, you've got two really good things that can come out of the storyline, and they explore one, but they don't explore together. So one is the sixties, are you know, eight years behind us at this point? You know, the Democratic National Convention is ten years behind us, like the height of Vietnam War protests in nineteen sixty eight, that's a decade behind us. And for him to kind of come to the realization that the world has passed him by.

People don't know who he is. When he says his name, he's so proud of it, and nobody recognizes it when Bernie calls the FBI or Woja calls the FBI. There, man, maybe we'll send somebody over tomorrow. So there's no like, you know, there's not a man hunt that's been going on for this guy, right, so he's finding out, you know, like he one of his buddies comes by and he the only person I think that he could reach on the phone. And now he's selling life insurance.

He has sold out completely for the man and I love this guy to Craig Richard Nelson is Arnold Moratz, who another super tall guy. I don't know where they found these two, but oh man, it's just bizarre. But like, yeah, he is like, no, no, I'm selling life insurance. Now. He's just he has given up the game.

And so it's this whole like the world has passed this person by. That's great. They do a really good job about that. But where I feel that they fall down in this episode is this whole thing of well, Luger getting a heart attack is good because he gets to just start yelling at this guy and basically Luger's living in the past as well, your scum and I always will be. And he's getting and I love that Corey Fisher's his character is getting off on it that he's just like so excited to be arguing with this old man and like taking him back to the end of the sixties, and he's just like, oh, like he's in his glory, enjoying himself much.

But it's this whole thing with Wojo, man, It's this whole thing where Wojo fought in the war, and Wojo really doesn't like that this guy was protesting the war because Wojo kind of feels like he was a dupe and he doesn't want to admit that he was a dupe. And then when everybody else starts piling on, and you've got Harris who's like, oh, yeah, I was at Colombia and I was protesting the war. You've got Landisburg, who's like, I was, I came out against the war when I was fourteen years old. Landisburg's an alien and could see the right. Oh my god, it was so yeah, he looked into his crystal ball and probably did his crystal ball and his alien planet Earthen.

And that's where I wanted more. I wanted this to turn from a Corey Fisher story into a Max Gale story. I wanted this to suddenly be this thing of Max Gale realizing I was doing the best thing that I possibly could at the time. And now look at the way that people look at this, and they'd look at this as a mistake. These were the best years of my life.

All of these people that I knew died. I gave so much for this, and even my own co workers were protesting the war that I was in. That's what I wanted this episode to be. Lieutenant Dan, you got your magic legs back, That's what it reminded me of. That's where it could have gone, and I wanted it to go more in that direction, because, Yeah, for as much as Forrest Gump is maudeling and saccharin and you know, heartstring tearing, this could have been that too, and that last episode was And I was really expecting this episode to pivot hard towards the end, and again it kind of limps across the finish line.

In my mind, like at least the a story with the protesting and whose side was you on? Whose side were you on? And where did you come down? And how are you talking about it now? And are you even talking about it now?

Is everybody moved on because they talk about that. You know, well, Jane Fonda and John Wayne are paling it up together and it's like, yeah, life goes on, right, I mean, Jesus Christ, some of us, a lot of us, all of us have been dealing with things like it the last two and well, a lot of people ask the same question, when will life go on? And the question is, I don't think there's any The answer is, there is no answer because for some people life will never go on, not because they're dead, but because this is the thing that they're caught up in. Now. There are people who will be thinking about COVID for the next fifty years, just like Corey Fisher's character, more than likely, if he were still alive today, it's probably still caught up in protesting the Vietnam War or protesting some war which they're do need to be people in society like that, and we do need to protest stuff that we do not agree with, obviously, But at the same time, I mean, you know, we have to remember that there are real people on the other end of this, like well Jehoitz, who were just just he was just a kid in the war, and it's hard to understand that, because he even says it because you weren't there.

You weren't there, you didn't see your friends getting blown up and hit with punge steaks and everything else. We can never understand that. And I appreciate that about this episode. But I wish it had leaned on it more. I really do, because it feels like a missed opportunity.

And maybe it wouldn't feel like such a missed opportunity if we hadn't had that last episode sandwiched right up against this one. I think we probably would be maybe maybe enjoying this episode a little bit more and being kind of appreciative of what it does present if the last episode hadn't handled the race, the issue of race so deftly and in such a well reasoned way too, because again the argument that the reasoning out in front of us in this episode is similar to the race one, where it's where we do need to find common ground, as hard as that may be, because we're all coming at this from a different direction, and this episode verges on it with the question of you know, war and right and wrong and protesters and soldiers who's doing what?

But yeah, I wish it. I wish it had just pushed the issue a little bit more and push Corey Fisher off to the side, because yeah, it should have been a Wojehoat story. That would be the way I would write some of these episodes, would be using the supporting guest characters to tell a wojaho At story, or to tell a Ron Harris story, or to tell a Levitt story. And they've done it from time to time. They don't always do it, but when they do it, I think it really shows the effectiveness of the writing of the show.

Yeah. Yeah, they had that opportunity. They were right there, and they once Wojo walks away from the cage and starts to have the conversation more with Harris there and d Trick and stuff. That's that's when this episode really starts to cook. But then they're just like, ah, yeah, let's go back to the cage, and it's like, okay, Yeah.

The Corey Official character is interesting. I like him. All this stuff that's going on. You know, it is very surprised that he is just their onitial television calling out dal Chemical DuPont all these other corporations that were just in Vietnam to make money, and you know, help push that war effort along for a long time. But yeah, yeah, there, I would say this is like a B episode rather than an A.

And we just had an A plus. So when you get a B after an A plus, it just it stings more it should. Yeah, you know, it's like on a show that we just wrapped up for this year, the Game of Thrones or The Lord of the Ring Shows. It was hard for me to not bring up Game of Thrones from time to time because I'm watching them both. And it's the same thing here.

If we had if we had one recording between this episode or these three and the Radical whatever episode, we would be recording that on. I think we would like it a lot more. Yeah, And it suffers from proximity to literally the second episode of the show where we're like, this is an amazing episode. We've had really good episodes, but Hash and the Harrison's and are the standouts for the entire show, not just this season. And I think the Radical could have been a standout for the show overall if it had really pushed that the war kind of the war protesting issue.

And you know, it's a missed opportunity more than anything else. And They're probably never going to come back to it, which is a shame. You do one Vietnam episode and that's it. I mean we saw that on Well I guess Twilight Zone eighty five died a bunch of time, so never mind. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt that this show will go back to that.

Well because again, like I mean, people in the seventies did want to stop talking about it. I mean, I get it, you know, I get it. Yeah, but it's worth still discussing and having a more open and free dialogue about especially the improprieties of companies like Transylvania six five thousands Producers, the Dow Chemical Company, right right, Yeah, yeah, And that was from another Malfeasons I was. I believe that was related to the big chemical spill in India that happened. I mean, I remember when that was going on, and just I'm sure that was hushed up quite a bit, like we didn't get to see pictures of what was going on in India at the time, and I'm sure that was really fucked up.

Yeah, well, of course, I mean they say it as much in this episode where there is a war, there is money to be made on all sides, and far be it from any company in this country to not take advantage of it. Jesus Christ, we just spent two years of a pandemic watching companies that make shitloads of money make more money than they've ever made in the fucking Amazon make more money than they've ever made in the history of their existence. And it's not just a chronologically because it's the next year of their existence. No, it's it's called they took everybody out back to the fucking woodshed and emptied their pockets for COVID stuff. And that's what happened.

And they did the same thing in Vietnam. Just wasn't Amazon, it was you know, the equivalence of the day sucks. It all sucks. Yeah. I just wish this episode had taken a firmer stance on it, because it feels like it didn't take a firm stance because it would have been rather unpopular, or take a firm stance.

It just said to me that here we are, all these years later. I mean, we're still talking about this show. That's a good thing. Yeah, I agreed, But the episodes are dealing with stuff that we're still dealing with all these years later. That's a bad thing.

Yep. Yeah, our country just got out of a war, yeah this year. Yeah, I mean how many places are we still occupying right now? I mean we are we still in the Iraq right now, are we? Well, we're out of Iraq completely, okay.

Yeah, we still got prisoners in Guantautamo though. Yeah, but that doesn't exist. Oh okay, that is that is a piece of land that doesn't exist. I don't even know what you're talking about. Oh, okay, okay.

And then we're not getting involved in the Ukraine, even though people are suffering over there. Yeah, I mean right, you know they don't have any oil. Yeah, there we go. Well, neither did Vietnam, but they had communists, which is, you know, as bad as or as as as yearned for. To kill the communists is just as much to put oil in your car, gas in your car.

So that's that's true. Yeah, I hate the communists and fill up your giant pickup truck and drive down in it. Yeah. Well, and you know, we can't switch to any other fuels because if the wind stops blowing, wind energy is done. If the sun stops shining, obviously, nothing can happen at nighttime.

Because solar power for heaven forbid, we have ways to you know, charge up, like a what's it word? Bariat but baton yeah, battery weird stored energy. Whoa fucking novel concept. I've never heard of such a thing. I know.

It's almost like my phone and everything I own electronically doesn't run on power or batteries. Jesus Christ. Yeah, it's no to your point. But and what's crazy is not only are we still having these conversations, but we're still having them with adiotic people whose dialogue hasn't changed in fifty years. Yeah exactly, Yeah, you know.

Yeah, it's the saddest part. It's like the characters from last episode. Ed Pex character I can exist in twenty twenty two, no problem. He's running the police department now. Yeah.

Man, he took contracts ands Onpophone and put him back with Jeffrey Dahmer. He's that kind of cop. Yeah. Yeah, that's the kind of person that Edpex character is. And again, like this episode didn't have that, it didn't have that antagonist.

It had Luger, which like at this point, Luger is a non threat, a non issue. He's a he's a puppy dog, so you're not worried that he's going to actually be antagonizing Corey Fisher. It probably needed maybe Corey Fisher's character to be more antagonistic or some just something to push that the war issue over the edge, like they did with Harris's character last episode. Well, my goodness, on the next episode at the Life and Times with Captain Barney Miller, we're going to be talking about three more episodes. We're going to be talking about Toys, the Indian and Voice Analyzer, and hopefully maybe we can get mister Maxcale to talk to us about the because I hear that that episode is particularly a favorite of his.

I hope. So, I mean, he's he's still acting just like good old Hall London. My god, guys, you know what, I'm glad that you're too busy to talk to us because you're still acting and working like dead serious, like good for both of y'all, because holy cow, there aren't enough actors working anymore from this day and age that can still bring it like how London can because he's still doing stage. He's he's doing stage man like that's that's a that's a different level. And then Max Scale, I mean just still acting.

I'm glad. I'm glad that they are too busy to talk to us. Frankly, but hey, please come come talk to us because we love your show. We were effusive, beyond effusive. You talked to Otto, Come on read his book.

It's really nice that we still have Stuart Penkin is acting because from Lloyd is acting. You know, we've got these guys who are showing up in the seventies just not gonna out and able to still pull it today. And man, uh we mentioned Stuart pank and obviously he's like you know, the fat and jokes, but he's a baby in ye like a literal like it was probably what early twenties I assume, But my god, just when he when he showed up, I knew it was him because of his voice. He is an amazing voice, obviously, but it is it the timber of it was different because he was so young. And the hair.

I'm not used to seeing him with long hair either. He's normally kind of the more well put together character and the things that I've seen him in I mean obviously Earl Sinclair or then uh in the thing that I interviewed him for so many years ago, Xenon where he plays a the commander of the space station. That's the characters I'm used to, So seeing him as this like young teenage guy was just why it was wild. But yeah, no, you're right, like it's it's good that these actors are still keeping it, keeping it one. I mean again, Chris Lloyd was just in that Spirit Halloween movie, like okay, like awesome, I'm glad.

No, And yeah, please Max Scale. I know I know you slept in a TP on your own property at one point. That's a story that we've all heard about. So I just want to hear from the horse's mouth. Yeah exactly.

Yeah, Oh my well, Chris. Until then, what are you up to, sir? Starting a podcast network with you? Yeah, my god, teen shows and counting man Weirdingwaymedia dot com. That's what I am up to, just creating content, working on content, workshopping ideas, do it, doing the podcast thing.

So Weirdingwaymedia dot Com that's where you can find all the things that I work on, which are thirteen of the nineteen shows because I counted today just out of curiosity. So yeah, that's where you can find all the things that I work on. Stuff with you like the shabby detective stuff with Father and Malone, and you like Dreams for Sale and Midnight Viewing the Night Gallery podcast. We're firmly, constantly stuck in the sixties and seventies, you and I And then yeah, it's yeah, so that's where you can find all of my stuff, Weirdingwaymedia dot com. What about you, Mike, you know what, same place?

Weird it's weird, right, very weird. Yeah, very strange. It's it's it's something from the Twilight sound that we're both doing our stuff. Weirdingweightmedia dot com. All right, Well, until we talk again next month.

All about Barney Miller, which you can now see over on Amazon Prime. So here we dragged Amazon so hard. I know, well, you know Bezos, I mean, he's got more money than God these days. Next thing, you know, he's going to buy Facebook and turn that into a shithole. So we'll find out.

Wait, what if people do that? Yeah? Yeah, charge me eight dollars please, eight dollars just too much? Well, how about six? I could do four?

I could do four. I haven't good to see going back to see if Stephen King has made a second offer. Stephen King just probably tweeted a picture of a giant mallet and said, Elon, you want to come visit me in Colorado sometime, big, big buddy, I'm your biggest fan, Elan. Oh God, Well, keep listening to all the shows over at reading amedia dot com. If you'd like this show, please give us a rating interview of wherever you get your podcast from, preferably over at iTunes because they're still kind of the big dog.

So you know, we're praying to our corporate over lords that they'll help us and protect us and to feed the algorithm somehow. Man