Buttons, Switches & Consoles Vol 3 - WarGames (1983)

Bye. Welcome back, Midnight Viewers, to Button Switches and Consoles. It's a series about old tech, or new tech, or prescient tech in this case. We're talking about the granddaddy, really, of all computer technology thriller in suburbia. while dealing with the end-of-the-world thrillers. Are there a lot of those?

There are, actually. There are a few, right in that decade. But I can't talk about war games alone. It's a duo situation. And as always, my co-host Laura Grillo is here.

Laura, how are you? Hi, Father Malone. I'm great. Great. Laura, you're like me.

You're a Gen X-er. Did you grow up with the constant threat of nuclear war absolutely raining havoc upon your brain? Yeah. Yeah. I did.

I mean, not like they did in the 50s and they'd have to go under the classroom desks or anything like that. Yeah, it was a nice, healthy Cold War. Can I just say, now that we know how the boomers turned out, aren't you glad that happened to them and don't you wish worse did? That's a question. Another podcast, perhaps.

Yeah, can we table that one? Yes, but we will get back to it. We will, yeah. I enjoyed the Cold War. There was a lot of good movies.

Ruskies. Sleeper agents. Rocky IV. Apollo Creed. Come on.

That's not Rocky. He was living in America, though. He was fighting that Russian in full Uncle Sam regalia. Got killed, certainly. Nevertheless, that was a Russian-American battle.

And who had to win it for us, Laura? An Italian. Does that make you proud? An Italian-American. An Italian-American.

He defeated Russia for us. He did. And ended the Cold War. He did. It wasn't long before the Soviet Union collapsed after Rocky did that.

And he took his girlfriend at the time. He took his girlfriend? Brigitte Nielsen. Well, that wasn't his girlfriend in the movie. No, I know, but after the movie they started dating.

Yeah, you see her towering over him like a Lilliputian in Gulliver? I bet he loved every second of it. Oh my God, climbing her like a tree. Until the 80s Coke. Took over that face.

America's front line of defense is this computer. It is totally secure. Or is it? You're really into computers, huh? Yeah.

What are you doing? Dialing into the school's computer. Are those your grades? Yeah. I don't think that I deserved it.

Do you? You can't do that. Already done. You can go to jail for that. Only if you're over 18.

This computer company is coming out with these amazing new games in. A couple of months. I want to play those games. Wow. What?

We got something. Games refers to models, simulations, and games that you have tackled on strategic application. Greetings. Game time is near. Shall we play a game?

Love to. Let's play. Global thermonuclear war. Fine. All right.

We have a launch detection. We have a Soviet launch. What the hell? Missile warning, no malfunction. Oh, my God.

I repeat, confidence is high. Mr. President, this is Mary Jane Norris. Is this a game, or is it real? What's the difference?

War Games. Begin playing June 3rd at. A theater near you. Oh, the 80s. 1983 we're talking about.

Specifically, June 3rd, 1983. That is when War Games hit the airwaves, the cinema screens. I was 10 years old. I was in a theater in Revere, Massachusetts, seeing this movie on opening weekend. One of, I don't know, a dozen, two dozen times I saw this in theaters.

I was fairly obsessed with it, fairly obsessed with Matthew Broderick, fairly obsessed with Dabney Coleman. Figure that one out. This is the story of David Lightman, a young hacker who accidentally hacks into the NORAD computer, setting up a war simulation that might just end the world. When did you first see it, Laura? In theater.

Nice. You were 10, so I was 9. And I was with my mom. I can't say if it was, or speak to if it was opening weekend, but. Right around then.

Right around then. But then again, movies stuck around a while when we were kids, so you might have had all summer to see it. Can I ask a question, Father Malone? Absolutely. So your obsessions spanned quite a few things when you were entering the movie, yet you neglected to mention Ally Sheedy.

I didn't neglect to mention her. I knew that she would be a focal point in your discussion and wanted to leave that to you. Oh, is that why you're doing. It as a favor? Totally.

I was setting you up. But you weren't obsessed with her? No. At least it was not my thing. That's cool.

Good to know. I liked Molly Ringwald. Oh, boy. Okay. Actually, I'm going to continue to say that I like Christine DeBell from Meatballs.

Oh, my goodness. Or, say, Little Nell from Rocky Horror Picture Show. Baby Candice Bergen. I never really noticed the similarity between Christine DeBell and Candice Bergen, but now. I see it.

So have you been watching Murphy Brown late at night? No, I have not. Why would I? Because you can't just break it. All right, I might start.

Anyway, tell me more about your initial reactions to War Games. And in the Cold War era. It blew my nine-year-old mind. And I was definitely crushed out on Matthew Broderick. This was written by Lawrence Lasker and Walter F.

Parks. They'd go on to do Numbers, that other sort of technological thriller that we're going to end up doing on this series. It was also directed by John Battam, who is... Listeners to this show are well acquainted with Mr. Batimus.

He got his start alongside Steven Spielberg on Rod Serling's Night Gallery. He directed a clutch of episodes every season and pointed to a career as a rather artistic filmmaker. And instead of the sort of meat and potatoes guy he ended up being, even then he managed to continue to make his movies, I think, a little more stylish than the typical Hollywood film of the day. This one certainly looks beautiful. But if you go back and look at his night gallery things, he was very, very impressionistic.

So it's odd to see just regular old setups from the man. So you're saying Bird on a Wire is more stylistic than the movies of the day? I think, oh, Bird on a Wire, no. I was thinking of Tequila Sunrise. Okay.

Yeah, that was all style. Yeah, that was style to burn. No plot. It was like a dard. Yeah, exactly.

Just look at these pretty people. And I neglected to go see Point of No Return. You neglected on purpose? Yeah. Were you a fan of La Femme Nikita or just Nikita?

Of course. Yeah. I had a woman I worked with, a French woman named Sophie, who always complained. Because I had the movie poster. And she complained every time she saw the La Femme Nikita poster.

She would say, that is so stupid. Why? The woman Nikita. It's just Nikita. Oh, Jesus.

That was her thing? Yeah, I guess so. Still a good movie. And definitely a better movie than Point of No Return, which despite having adorable Bridget Fonda trying to assay the role of a junkie who gets reformed and turned into an assassin, which she almost pulls off, the movie around it just doesn't hold up at all. It's all like a beat-for-beat remake of the first film without any of its weird punky ethos.

That's why I didn't watch it. Thank you for affirming my instincts. The opening of the Thumb Nikita when they're just going nuts inside that pharmacy, it was like. What the fuck is that? With the rabbit masks?

Yeah, it was all like total chaos. I had no idea what was happening. And in the American version, it's just, eh, we're sad and we need some drugs. That's what it kind of felt like. Well, I mean, couldn't the opposite be true, that you can take an American, any movie, make it French, and then people pretend that it has some sort of depth?

That's really not there. Have there been many French remakes of American films? I'm not even aware. Okay, the remake concept, yeah. I'll have to get back to you on that one, Father Malone.

We should do a series about films that are remade from American films. I mean, I can think of a few. I think my point was things aren't always smart just because they're in another language. Or just by cutting dialogue, which is how Nicholas Winding Refn has gotten a reputation as having depth. He just has nobody say anything ever.

Just stare longingly. Yeah. There's Gosling in his highlighted hair. Again. That movie Drive, I was just like, this is what everyone's been talking about?

There's fucking nothing going on here? Did nobody see Thief with James Caan? I guess not. They did not. They did not.

They would know what a good movie is with Tangerine Dream. Everything's better with Tangerine Dream. That's, yeah. They could have made the music a this movie better, I think. If that was a cocktail, what would it be?

Tangerine Dream? Yeah. I'm guessing it would have some sort of citrus going on. Citrus, obviously. But, I don't know, soda.

But shouldn't it be something bitter and not a bitter citrus? Okay. Well, look. Is there something worse than lime that you would not want to put in your mouth, that you would have to even it out with something sweet? I think it should be an extreme drink, but an extreme one of flavors.

But would it be gin, vodka, rum, tequila, mezcal? Well, as someone who can barely drink any alcohol because it's mostly wheat-based, I'm going to go vodka. Vodka. Okay. That sounds good.

All right, moving on. That was just something I thought about. When last I was in Los Angeles and at Amoeba Records, I was looking for Tangerine Dream. I thought, well, there certainly must be an album I haven't added to my collection that's out there. And I looked and looked and looked.

Do you know where I found it? Do you know what section I found it in? New Age. I wanted to burn that building to the ground. Yes, next to Enya.

Did you say something about it? I said it to the people I was with. I was like, what the fuck is this business? And they were like, well, yeah. So...

I couldn't even get satisfaction from them. Okay. Anyway, war games. War games. Oh, right, yeah.

It begins with Baby Madsen. Baby... Oh, Baby Madsen? Baby Michael Madsen. Young Michael Madsen in his first role.

It begins with him? Turn your key, sir. That's not Michael Madsen. Yes, that is Mr. Blonde Michael Madsen.

Really? From Reservoir Dogs? Yes. No. Older brother of Virginia Madsen.

Or younger. I thought that was someone else. It doesn't even look like him. I know, because he's so baby-faced, you see. No, because when he's driving the truck, you can tell that that's Michael Madsen.

He's only in the one scene. No, he's in the truck that turns over. That was him at the end? Yeah. We didn't recognize him in different scenes.

I didn't think he had a line. Oh, yeah, that's him in the opening scene, not almost killing John Spencer. I don't... With all respect, Father, I... Don't think that's him.

Would you like to pause the program and go rewatch the scene? I've watched it a few times. And yet you didn't realize that that's Michael Madsen. I don't think so. We are not going to argue facts.

That is Michael Madsen. Okay, that's fine. The earth is flat. Yes, the point you've decided on. No, I really, I mean, that scene, what did, I didn't remember how jarring that opening scene was.

It's the thing I think of most when I think of war games, actually. Him pointing the gun at that guy and say, turn your keys, sir. And what a scenario to begin a film, which ultimately turns out to be like a suburban thriller for teens. But yeah, it is so jarring, in fact, that when it cuts to the credits and this jaunty horn-soaked theme came on, I was like, what is happening? Yeah.

You watching the scene now? You finding out it's actually Michael Manson? Yeah, you're right. But it's just, he doesn't look like him. I love John Spencer in that part.

And the guy who signs them in is also famous in a character actor-y way, but I didn't write that. The one who complained about them being late? Yeah. No, no, no. The one who signs them in.

It's Art LeFleur, who played the dad in the remake of The Blob. Oh. He's been in a bunch of other stuff. Michael Madsen is the driver in that car, but. Isn't.

Is. Oh, he is. Okay, good. I'm glad he got paid twice. They had to have him out to location.

I can't believe how much it doesn't look like him. He's unlined and not yet drunk. I met him a few times. You have? Oh, yeah.

He passed away last year, or was it two years? I believe it was two years ago, yeah. Yeah, he came to, I was the projectionist for a screening of, it was a cast and crew screening for some film, and he showed up and was standing out front smoking, so I went out to smoke with him. And then he called me a pussy because I was smoking filtered cigarettes. And then he offered me one of his, which was a lucky strike.

And I said, no, I don't want to talk like you. And then he said, I'm just waiting for Tim Roth, who's supposed to arrive, because I'm going to beat him like that. And then I had to go start a move. Well, that's a good story. Yeah.

But you've quit smoking since. Yeah, I do not smoke cigarettes. No, I don't do that anymore. Why? We're talking 25 years ago.

More. More. This is 95. So you were showing Reservoir Dogs. We showed Reservoir Dogs in its initial run, but we also frequently held cast and crew screening.

Studios would rent us out because we were small enough and intimate enough that they could just get the entire cast and crew into a theater when they were showing the movie to them for the first time. So that was why he was at your theater. Yeah, it was a movie that Tim Roth was in, apparently. So he showed up sort of unannounced. Like the movie The Doom Generation, Greg Araki's Doom Generation.

We did the cast and crew screening for that. I sat next to Greg Araki in the projection booth for the first screening of that. And he kept turning up the volume so fucking loud that the walls were shaking. And management kept pounding on the doors to get us to turn it down. Did he just want the reverb?

Anytime there was a scene that featured music, he wanted it to reverberate in their heads, yeah. Ouch. Yeah. I wasn't going to stop him. Have you seen his new one?

I haven't yet. I'm afraid to because it seems so mainstream. I'm a little nervous. I want to see it too, but I have not yet either. Did you hear that?

Yeah. That was a motorcycle. Oh, okay. I thought there was some crazy reverb going on in your microphone. No, sorry about that.

I just like Olivia Wilde's haircut in the trailer, so I definitely think I'll. Are most of your film choices based on hairstylings? Some of them are. I wouldn't go so far as to say most. Those are re-watch.

Some days you'll just have to watch certain. So you just see the movies in general, but catalog in your mind which ones have the best hair and those you will be revisiting. If I'm in, when I'm in the mood. Gotcha. So opening scene, they're trying to, they're going to, they're going to kill everybody.

This is a simulation run on American soldiers, which apparently is a real thing. And I should say that the movie is based on an event in 1979 where a just like this, a computer simulation of Soviet submarines attacking the United States was accidentally fed into the NORAD computer. So they didn't recognize it as a simulation. It just ran in their minds like it was real. And they got down to the wire before figuring out that it was all fake because they didn't get any radar hits from actual stations.

And these screenwriters heard that story and fancified it and turned it into this, which also included I forget the name of the hacker, but David's character is based on an actual hacker of the time. And remember we talked about phone freaking? Yeah. Yeah, he does that here with the other method of doing it, which is short-circuiting it, like grounding the receiver to get the dial tone to come through. We're learning all the tricks on old ways and now useless ways to trick the phone company.

What year was that incident that you just talked about? 1979. And so you called the computer NORAC. So that was like what the WAPR is? No, NORAD is the structure that they're in.

That's the organization that monitors the North American radar, blah, blah, blah. WAPR, the computer that is running the simulations in this, is actually based on the original Defense Department's computer simulator, which was accidentally nicknamed BRGR. So as a joke, this one's called WAPR. Well, yeah. Yeah.

I definitely started thinking of the burger. A juicy hamburger? Yeah. Flame broiled, you know. Yeah, I did think that.

All right. Let's get to this cast. Let's get to these kids. What a perfect cast, actually. There's not a bad performance in the movie, first of all, which is rare for a movie centering on teenagers from the 1980s.

Matthew Broderick was already a huge star, I think, on Broadway by the time he did this. I didn't know that. Yeah. I wasn't really following Broadway at the time. Why not?

You were nine. What's wrong with you? Are you a late bloomer? Yes. Very much so.

But co-star Ally Sheedy. Speak to Ally Sheedy. I know you're dying to talk about Ally Sheedy. No, I'm not dying to. Come on.

You've been champing at the bit for days. What I realized watching this movie is how much I love Barry Corbin and how much he was in everything. Everything. Always as a general. And I love that.

I just, I don't know. He's just an authority figure par excellence. Yeah, he is. I mean, he looks really rough, too. The older he gets, the better he ages.

Oh, sure. I mean, he was in My Science Project, which I just watched the other day, on your recommendation. Was he by any chance in the military in that film? Oh, no, I think he had a hardware store. Oh, man, he broke out.

He had a military vibe. Well, he just does. He just does. And I remember Northern Exposure before I rewatched it and realized how bad it was. Yeah, he's the best thing in that.

He is. Because that is a terrible show. It's so disappointing. I remember loving it so much. And then, I mean, maybe the fact that they couldn't replay, show it with the music that they had at the time.

But no, it was still kind of just lame. I, at that time that it was out, hate watched Northern Exposure because I was watching Twin Peaks and I felt it was a direct ripoff of Twin Peaks. It felt like happy days to American graffiti. And I wanted to punch that DJ in the face. the face who just never shut up about like fucking sophomore year college philosophy like i'm glad you screenwriters all went to fucking harvard for a few semesters just shut. Up you know they say what we hate what what we hate about ourselves.

Wow. Right where I live. Now then, let me tell you a bit about Kierkegaard. So what did you think of John Wood in this movie? This big-eyed thing that he did?

John Wood and his big-eyed thing? He just kept opening his eyes. That was how he acted. He made no impression on me at all, actually. Okay.

Okay. I was too busy once again every time I see him, particularly in the past 10 years for some reason, marvel at Dabney Coleman as an actor. Such a good villain. Oof, isn't he? And I've remembered him being sort of a mustache-twirling villain in this movie, and he's anything but.

He's just a middle management guy trying to fucking save his ass because his computer system is failing. Yeah, but that. Yeah, but he also really, like, pushes through his computer thing in a way that, to the detriment of humanity. That is true. But I don't feel like he means the detriment.

I think he means to do well. He believes that he is correct in this. Yes. Yes. Yeah, he's eventually proven wrong, but yeah, unlike Tootsie.

I mean, he's just, you know, gross, the director. Did you see him in Boardwalk Empire? I didn't. He plays the Commodore, who's like this sort of elder, old money person ensconced in a house on the beach that they have to go get permission from to do things every once in a while. It's pretty amazing.

I've seen a couple of episodes stop. It's a bit of a commitment and not always a beneficial. Yeah. But it is Steve Buscemi for three and a half seasons. Yeah, Michael Pitt was in it.

Yeah, and they killed him off after the first season because apparently he was a fucking nightmare. No, he just, he's mentally, he's good. Oh, was he? Oh, well, I feel bad. No, don't.

I mean, he doesn't feel bad for us. That's true. Fuck that guy. I'm glad they came out here. God, they killed us too bad.

Yeah, it is. I don't mean to belittle anyone listening with mental issues. No, but they did. We all have them. I'm in therapy, Jesus Christ.

Was Michael Shannon on the whole thing? Yes, and wonderfully. Yeah. He's really good in that show. But he's just really good in general.

So you might as well watch him in something you like. You know, like that Superman movie. Zod. Oof. He winged in from a whole other feature.

A better feature, don't get me wrong. Yeah, he's the. He's great in that movie. No special effect can top him. Yeah, I like him in everything he's in.

Like, even Groundhog Day. Yeah. WrestleMania was his big line. Oh, yeah. I'm worried it.

Was. Yeah. Okay. We're talking about war games here. We're big fans, Michael.

If you're listening. Your bands are good, too. Ally Sheedy. What about, I mean, I love her. Yeah, I do.

Her little apple-shaped face and her weird laugh and her screams that kind of seem like they were real. At the time and how buoyant she was when she was jogging. Everyone enjoys the jogging scene. No, it's not like it was sexual either. I'm just saying it's been noted online.

Has it been? That's a favorite scene in the movie. Is it? Yeah. Wow.

I'm glad I was on point with that one. Yeah, you were right there with the pervs. No, it's not even a dirty thing. Also, there's a lot of times in the movie where she's not really miked, but she says these things that are funny. you could tell but they don't they didn't really dub them or anything so you can't really see what is it called when. You do a voiceover oh adr adr yeah yeah additional dialogue recording yes there's a lot for her in.

The movie yes but there's not a lot that they don't do so there's stuff like when she's trapping between he's she's strapped him between her legs and she just repeats little friend you know that's something you could really miss. You know they don't That's a behavior, by the way, that I recognize. This is such a teenage girl behavior. As far as his reaction to it, which is, I don't know what the. You know what I looked up?

Is this flirting? I don't know. Let me go. You looked up all the technical stuff, which was great because that's what we're doing this for. But I looked up, were they dating?

Were Halle Sheedy and Matthew Broderick dating at the time? And they were not. She was actually dating Eric Starr. Oh. Wasn't he dating, what's her face, from Baby?

Ferris? Yeah. Wasn't Ferris Bueller. Not yet. No, they weren't.

They hadn't made it yet. It was later. Gotcha. Jennifer Grey. Oh, my God.

They were brother and sister in that movie. Yeah. How incestuous. Oh, well, everyone's got their kinks. You know, Father Malone.

Fake priest aside, I found Ally Sheedy to be fucking delightful in this movie. She was. She's cute. Yeah. And shares Matthew Broderick's sort of ease with A lot of younger performers just have that weird precocious thing that I fucking despise, the sort of pretend kind of thing, which is on display.

Matthew Broderick actually does it at one point in this movie. I'd like to point it out. And it really bugged me. But just an ease of, and a naturalism from both of them. But I think actually her more than him.

He feels more actorly, ultimately. She feels more like just a natural performer, like a Shelley Long, or not Shelley Long, but Shelley Duvall, rather. When I use the word precocious, when I go out in Brooklyn and there are all these parents letting their kids run wild and we're all supposed to enjoy it. And because they're so cute and precocious, but they're actually fucking beasts and they need to be disciplined. That's how I think of the word.

So tell me which part. Precocious to me is there's a particular breed of child actor where you could tell that they are aware enough to know what they're doing in a scene, but can't act in any other way than they've been coached. So it all feels like, and characters get written a lot like that. You see it in sitcoms a lot where they're writing too high above the character's actual sort of comprehension of something. But isn't it funny to see coming out of the mouth of a babe?

And there's something about that kind of writing and that kind of acting that to me equals precocious. And ruins shows. You're out of ideas when it's all a dream or you get someone brings a kid. On the show. At the time, so I was 10, so 11, 12, I had friends who effectively were computer people who had every piece of new equipment that came along and revered this movie.

And I think it's like hackers. I think the generation that ended up making hackers, that generation of hackers themselves were like inspired by this movie to potentially end the world. At least they had high goals here. It wasn't just making money like the 90s. The end of the world was just an incidental thing.

It wasn't like a goal, right? Well, it has to be somebody's goal because that's what the whole fucking point of the movie is. I mean, he engages it like it's a game, but he's really into it. I'd like to point out that the first target that they make is Las Vegas. Las Vegas.

Of course it is because we're the greatest city on earth. We've got action right to the end. I noticed that. So you know that an early nickname for Las Vegas was Radiant City, given to us by all of the nuclear testing we had on the periphery. Ah.

There used to be viewing parties of nuclear tests. Isn't it called Sin City? It's definitely Sin City now. Okay. What about when the mob created it?

Is it called? It was called Las Vegas. And quiet about that, everybody. I think that's what its official name was. You didn't see nothing.

I think was its official tagline, really. And Eddie Deason's in this, too. Oh, my goodness, isn't he? And he does a great. Perennial nerd.

He... Yeah. With Maury Chaykin as the double nerd team. Yeah, and I love how. The line, Mr.

Potato Head lives in my head and has since 1983. That exact delivery when I hear somebody being idiotic. Mr. Potato Head. Mr.

Potato Head! I loved that scene. And how he kept the woman away from him. Yeah, right. Because they got nervous and stuff.

Exactly. Not to keep her from them or them from her. But I thought it was smart. It's just a smart, tightly written thing, how they talk about Falcon's maze at the beginning, which leads him to eventually come to find out Joshua is the password. Spoiler alert.

Yeah, my favorite character in the movie is Joshua. Yeah. Yeah. He's got all the best lines. He's the only character with real, true direction from beginning to end.

He doesn't need an arc. He knows what he wants. He just wants to play chess. Well, he wants to win the game. Right.

If you make him play the Global Nuclear War one, he's going to win that. But really, you should have just played chess with. Him at the beginning. You shouldn't just play chess. It's another Frankenstein situation.

Yeah. We've gone too far and broken the bonds with our AI. Yeah. I'm too high to the sun. My wings.

So this is effectively an AI film, and it is, but it's just the most benevolent AI experience. imaginable. This isn't Skynet. This isn't The Matrix. It really is just what you put into it that you're getting back out of it. If you tell it to how to.

It isn't that what happens... But it's not just what you put into it. It's because it learns. True, but it only learns how to win. In those other AI scenarios, and ones we're probably going to face in the next few years, the artificial intelligence might make the decision that we should no longer be here.

In this scenario, in war games, it's just like, hey, we're going to give you access to these nuclear weapons and their nuclear weapons and see what happens in a simulation. And then it decides that there is no difference between the simulation and real life, which is maybe a glitch, but It isn't like intent. It seems in every other AI apocalyptic thing, AI makes the decision that we need to go. Right. I don't know if it made the decision as much as there was no decision to make.

There is no... Within the concept of the computer, there is no difference between game and reality. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. Thank you.

Thank you for saying that. I really appreciate that. Well, it's just the truth. I mean, it just means that there's... When.

You were just talking about decisions and stuff. Yeah. As a movie, there's no real antagonist in this film, which is remarkable. There's just things doing what it's supposed to. So Joshua is not.

Joshua has no ill will. Joshua just can't distinguish between reality and fantasy, and that's not its fault. And doesn't understand that futility. Did you notice that it was called Crystal Palace? I did.

Which made me happy, but I didn't understand. Because it's so fragile, I guess. Oh, maybe. I loved all that text speaking. There was a lot.

Defcon. Defcon and get them on the horn and give me ASAC on the line and this is no rap. And that's Barry Corbin. Well, yeah, exactly. Who delivered those lines that were just like ace.

Who improv'd a lot of those lines. Do you think the piss on a spark plug was improvised or written? I feel like it was written, but I'd like to give it to Barry Corbin for being Barry Corbin. I mean, yeah. It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that he would come up with that.

Nobody would have been able to say it that well. Nobody. I was going to ask as a former resident of Seattle if you recognized any of the filming locations, but actually I do because it was mainly filmed in Van Nuys. Just see the Space Needle. Everybody knows the Space Needle.

They went and filmed the harbor for two days and everything else was in Los Angeles. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, the tunnel leading to the giant NORAD vault that they have to get into is the same one that Roger Rabbit takes to get to Toontown. It's the one Marty McFly is on the hover fucking skateboard in Back to the Future 2.

So everything L.A. Movie magic, everybody. Movie magic. Yeah, it was just some of the landscape, the water scene. Everything else was in.

I noticed a lot of changing climates. From scene to scene and shot to shot. Yeah. Yeah, it did feel like fall at some point and then springtime and then a little bit of summer. And that's sort of Seattle for you.

John Badham got brought in 12 days into filming. Martin Brest was the original filmmaker on this film. He eventually made, he did Beverly Hills Cop with Eddie Murphy. And the problem they had with his, the footage he was turning in was it was too dark. He was trying to make this as straight-ahead thriller as you could make it without any sort of lightness.

And at that point, I understand, as much as I credited those two screenplays, those two screenwriters, Tom Mankiewicz got brought in here. Ah, the Mank. Yes, and that's why the movie got as light as it is and has as many funny lines in it. And that's why I think that line probably is not Barry Corbin, but Tom Mankiewicz. Okay.

And I love me some Tom Mankiewicz. He wrote the two best James Bond films, everybody. What are those? Name them for us. Those are Diamonds Are Forever and The Man with the Golden Gun.

Okay. Check those out if you haven't seen them. Those movies from 60 years ago. Tic-Tac-Toe. It's like the time when you're young and you realize what Tic-Tac-Toe is is around the time that you understand that there is no Santa Claus or was I just.

That seems about right. All the futility comes flooding. Into you at once, right? It's a pretty sad day. Yeah, when you realize how pointless it all is.

And the existential really starts to nestle in your brain. Sure. Not the best time in retrospect. But instructive. What do you think of the parents?

Did they affect you at all? I love the parents. They're so typically parental here. But really supportive and not... Yeah, they weren't...

They're just regular parents. They weren't made up to be one way or the other. He had all that computer equipment, so he must have. He sure did. Like, too much for...

Yeah, what? Where'd he get all of that? I don't know. The parents. But he is getting good grades.

Now, speaking of. Well, yeah. He's getting good grades. That scene, the report card scene, which is really the he discovers that he nearly destroyed the world scene, when the mom leads him over to the father to show him the report card. If you watch Matthew Broderick's posture and demeanor he turns into that precocious actor that i was fucking complaining about earlier this like he it's watch him up with the yo-yo even that only enforces it he does this like eight-year-old oh gee shucks me kind of thing i was like what what you're usually so good sir.

He does it at the end of the movie too and they still with the hair do you think. He still doesn't i'd like to see him do. It today i bet he does it when he gets caught messing something up. That's his sheepish go-to. His sheepish default.

Shred shoulders. For our listeners. I'm cute. Oh, hey. Didn't see you there.

I move my arms when I walk. Who, me? What was the other part of that scene? Oh, this is a trope that I hate in all movies, but I noticed it here. Most recently, so I'm going to talk about it.

You get in here and you've got some explaining to do, the kind of, you're in trouble, mister. You got great grades. That sort of set up in movies that fake out of expectations, where we've just seen the character do something where they could be caught or in trouble for. In the next scene, somebody says something to them that is so fucking leading that That nobody ever says. Oh, you wait till I get my hands on you.

I'm going to give you a hug. It's like that. And that bothered you? Yeah, I fucking hate that. You mean?

I hated the sexual harassment scene. That sucked. It was like. Oh, that's small potatoes compared to my thing. He just would not let up.

And, you know, at the time. She was probably acting the way you're supposed to act in those kinds of scenarios, you know, without causing too much of a stir. So I remember that. I don't even remember what that actor was or why he was wearing the weirdest military outfit when everyone else had normal military outfits. Oh, he had the beret on.

Yeah. That guy's freaky. Yeah, that scene is out of the blue just to provide a bit of distraction for David. Right. But it could have been anything.

It's a weird go-to when it just becomes harassment and or rape as a plot point. You guys couldn't think of anything else? Yeah. That was distracting for me. But his solution opening that door was pretty good.

Yeah. With the tape recorder and everything. Remember in the 80s where for a brief time we actually praised intelligence and innovation? With movies like Real Genius or Revenge of the Nerds. I know, that's a big rape movie.

I get that. But at the time, Animal House had its thing. There was the whole slobs thing of the 1970s. But in the 80s, they started appreciating these kids who could be a little bit of tech savvy. And this is a tech show, after all.

I think what they were trying to do is show how he wasn't appreciated, which is why the Russians probably got to him. Or something. Because they were trying to make it the Russians that were really doing it. They were making this an espionage situation. Yeah, so he was like alienated from his parents.

And doesn't have that many friends at school. And it's a perfect example of someone the Russians would take mind control. And they did. And that was the end of the movie. America was wiped out.

We didn't see it coming. Literally. His real name was Nikolai. Joshua. Nikolai Joshua.

So I appreciated... It really... When finally, when Falcon comes and explains what's really happening to very Corbin or whatever general, what's his name? They turn pretty quick. They, for all the, it's like, it's like a 52nd thing where they're like, okay, we're just, we'll stay on the phone with you.

You might, we might all die. We might not. It's not that convincing a speech. It didn't take much persuading. Yes.

I did think the, I did think the level of panic. And that scene was way off. It was very solid. Well, we're ready to go. Birds are about to go in the air.

We think we've got that. We've got all those guys scrambled. Hey, guys, maybe we shouldn't do this. Okay. It was a little like that.

Yeah, but Barry Corbin was still Barry Corbin-esque. You know, because he doesn't trust these computers, mercifully. Right, right. Or else we'd all be dead. But I did notice that that scene and i did notice the ease with which he's just said hey what if we don't.

Everybody with his big eyes yeah what was that what was that that matthew mcconaughey movie the the lawyer film where the last it was like a samuel jackson's on trial. For murdering the rapist or murderer of his daughter and whatever and matthew mcconaughey's big fucking speech at the end effectively was What if she were white? And they're all like, oh, my God. And it goes in his favor. I was like, really?

A little simple. A little bit of that here. So then that's why I was glad that Joshua kept at it. Decided, I'm going to get these codes anyway. I don't know if you guys have finished playing, but I haven't finished playing the game.

Yes. See, I agree that it's lazy writing to just have them speechify and have that occur where we find out that it is a simulant. But what follows... I remember being dazzled as a child by the following sequence. And again, today, I watched the Blu-ray of this, which looks fucking fantastic.

And this sequence, watching those maps of the world and all of the major cities just get blotted out into little white dots over and over again. Fucking phenomenal. It was. Tom Rolfe is the editor on this, so kudos to him. But John Badham was always a really good editor, at least back on Night Gallery, where he had to be really economical within 22 or even sometimes 17 minutes. time frame.

I love the finale. And by the way, I love the finale of this movie because it doesn't have anyone fist fighting or anyone going at each other. There's no violence to speak of here, but it is as tense and thrilling as anything. What we're watching is a computer figure out its own fucking sense of futility in real time with the possibility of it not understanding that our own demise. Pretty fucking potent for just a 1983 neighborhood potboiler.

Yeah. Boy, I went on a tear there, didn't I? You're not wrong. You are right. You are not wrong.

We're spending so much time disagreeing when we're just trying to agree with each other. Sorry about that. I do remember one part at the end where she's like, I told you not to play those games with them. And he's like, games. I was like, Light bulb moment.

That, to me, was the only part that I noticed a little bit of lazy writing. Like, this is not the best time to be like, I told you so. Yeah. And, oh, stupid thing, because she really didn't say don't play those games. She was fully on, full on encouraging.

She didn't. Once the game, once the password, by the way, helped him find the password. Yeah. And then once. He's in, wasn't like, no, don't do this.

She was like, let's get Las Vegas. She was into Vegas. That was her choice. What the fuck? And now you're like, no, he not told you.

We shouldn't have done this. No. Yeah, so it was like it helped. She was like the sacrificial lamb of it. She's a co-conspirator is what she is.

Yeah, she was. Like pretending she's not. No, I know, but they made her sound like an annoying, oh, of course the woman's like, I told you not to do that. Just like that. That's how she sounded.

It might have been a Tom Mankiewicz line because the other line I noticed when she says when she meets him at the airport after he's already escaped from the facility. And she says, is this because you changed my grades? What are you talking about? You saw the news. You know he got picked up by the feds.

Like, you're on the run right now. It's just like a ha-ha-ha kind of moment, but no. No one's saying that here. So maybe Martin Brest was right. They should have kicked Mankiewicz off the set.

I think, you know, they did try to portray her as the young, flighty, flaky... She's going to be on TV with aerobic class or whatever. Right. But it's Ally Sheedy who just presents so much smarter than any sort of airhead tendencies. They want to give her just for the sake of a laugh.

Did you notice that the dog was always outside? Yeah. They never let the dog in the house. People used to do that. Do people still do that?

It's fucking horrific. This is the outside dog? Why? You get outside. So...

And then they get mad at him for wanting to play with garbage or something. Let him in the fucking house. Damn it. Cook that corn. Yeah.

That's a weird little moment, but a nice moment. That was a weird little moment. I liked it too. Especially, I was like, wow, if I had known. If I would just butter bread all those years growing up on the table, it would be a perfect way to eat corn.

Just by wrapping it. I was like, that's amazing. Why didn't I think of that? Tips and tricks. Not only for saving the world, but really making an efficient meal for yourself.

Just make sure you cook it first. And you can eat the bread after. Eat the bread. John Wood also supplied the voice of Joshua. Oh, he did?

Yes, that was him filtered through a vocoder of some sort, yeah. He was also in Jumping Jack Flash, a movie that I hope we talk about here. That is a computer film. Yeah. So we're going to have to talk about it.

I hope so. Jonathan Pryce. Mmm, I love him. Everyone loves him. Including Whippy.

Let me see. Going through my notes, you got anything else? No. There has to be something. There has to be something.

I already mentioned stuff I didn't like. which wasn't much. Oh, I did want to mention that this isn't about this movie, but sometimes we pair movies with other movies. A couple years later, they effectively remade this movie on a much smaller scale. That was The Manhattan Project with John Lethko, which I think I've actually seen way more than this film, but that might be because it was on a loop on cable at the time. Yeah, I remember.

I just had the TV on. All the time. So I've seen The Manhattan Project a lot. And that probably, no, that's more of a, that's just a tech movie. That's not really a computer movie.

So I don't know we'll be approaching that one. But we might because it is the 80s and it is. It's both. Yeah. I guess it is tech.

But it's, and that's real tech what they were doing there. Teaching us all how to create a nuclear warhead. Yeah. Yeah. Not irresponsible at all.

Not that we were getting into any of those facilities, but neither was that kid. I'm reviewing the movie now. Anyway. Yeah, we were getting covered it. I think, yeah.

I think that, anything else you want to talk about, say about war games? I really liked her jean jacket. Nice. It was a nice Levi, probably. Or Jordache.

Most likely Jordache. It was probably Jordache. I think it's funny that they made him named Falcon. It's so close to Dr. Stephen Hawking, which he's so clearly based on.

And apparently they went to Stephen Hawking to ask him if he would be in the movie, but felt they were going to exploit his disability by featuring him in the film. So instead, Epstein called him up. Yes. Oof. Nice way to end this one.

That was upsetting. Joke. Sorry. Sorry. On that note, what are we talking about next time when we get to... convene about technology it was war games this time what is it next time you know.

No wait that's. Airwaves that's sci-fi that's airlocks sensors. Jumping jack flash jumping jack flash. No i don't think so we're gonna do a serious movie. A serious one what you pick then how about disclosure okay that will be fun yeah until next time everybody say goodbye everybody to laura gorilla laura say goodbye to everybody would you you have a.

Line from the movie I don't have a line from the movie. Think of one. Except your wife. There we go. That was it.

You can hear the crew laughing in that scene. They didn't know it was coming. All right. Until next time, everybody, try to enjoy the daylight. Everyone knew that was coming.

Thank you. Thank you.