The Maddest Family Reunion Ever Told

This is roger corman and you're listening to movie meltdown. The following feature has been rated r by the motion picture association of america it is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised It's showtime, folks. Enjoy the show. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power. What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown.

I am Brian and joining me once again for this very special episode. Is Sammy D. I don't know about all that. I love throwing it to you and then being horrified by whatever you did. No, we got to start over.

Start over. Start over. Let's do it again. Let's do it again. That's part.

Back to one. Back to one, everybody. I can do it better. I can do it better, Brian. That's part of it, though.

You are your own crazy creation. I'm going to beat myself up for the rest of the day about how I introduce myself now. Oh, my gosh. No, you're always crazy. It's cutting.

You're cutting. I'm coming to cut my legs. Anyway, all right. Much like Dr. Frankenstein, you are your own creation.

You created this evil creature that comes on this show. We may or may not murder people before you're done. That's it. I think if you have an alter ego, you've got to buy a top hat, though. It seems to be you've got to have a big stovepipe top hat.

This is very Dr. Jekyll of you, all right. Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying. I think maybe that's where it all came from. But I've seen a lot of things where their alter ego has a top hat.

I don't know. Anyway, all right. I expect to see you in a top hat next time I see you. Yeah, well, you'll know who I am by the top hat, how to address me. If I'm wearing, oh man, that was a celebrity stuff.

If I'm wearing this top hat, you will call me by this. If I don't have the top hat on, I am just regular old John. Send your people into the room first. I'll send in my handlers. I have my handlers.

They come in. They prep everybody. It's John today. It's Sam today. All right.

Anyway. All right. Whatever. Whatever. The show's already ruined.

The show's already ruined. All right. So, no, but we're good. We're good. I don't know.

What were we talking about, Brian? You proceed. Proceed. This is a very special episode, and I specifically picked you, crazy as you may be, because I knew this, again, I got to figure out who the other half of this conversation will be. So I've been planning this a very long time.

Oh, my God. And so as I got into this scenario where I was like, oh, maybe I can hand off the other part of this episode to myself because I started the first one. As we get into this, we've got two different interviews to get to first before we start our rambling. But the first of it, I went back to find the original session when I sat down. Because there were several times in my life where I talked to Sid Haig, and I've realized over the years, none of them were all that long.

But I think it was all so very early for me. So my early interview segments were like 10 minutes long of like, hey, here's this. Okay, what else do I know? So it was a very figuring it out type of process. Whereas now, the people are just like, oh my God, stop talking.

Why are we still here? So at the time, early on, when I first did the very first interview with him, like, I don't even know if it was 10 minutes, the whole thing all together. And then this was one that was like, maybe, this was like the last time I talked to him, actually. So I went back to find it. It is from...

September 2014. Wow. That was when I, and I don't think it was the last time I saw him. I think I saw him, that became its own running joke of like, I saw Sid on such a regular basis that the joke for us as a cast was like, I see Sid Haig and Bill Moseley more often than I see my extended family. Because literally during the middle months out of the year, I would be at a convention every other weekend.

So like, and, They worked so much on these that I've just been like, hey, there's Sid again. All right. See you later. See you in two weeks. It's just I saw Sid all the time, which is why I think I kept going, oh, well, I still want to ask him about this movie.

So next time I run into him, I'll ask him about this. So it became a recurring like a couple of times over the years. I'd be like, let's go back. Let's talk about this. And like, you know, eventually.

We got to this one, but more than anything, I will give him credit. He was very patient because, you know, I don't know that anyone wants to deal with me that often. And like several times over the years, he sat down and had a nice conversation with me. So bonus points to Sid Haig for being the coolest guy ever. Yeah.

Yeah. You got it documented before he, he, he's unsurped this mortal coil. That's not how you say it. Shuffled off this mortal coil. Shuffled off.

Yeah. Not unsurped. Shuffled. Right. Right.

He didn't unslurp anything. That's only for mortal soup. That's it. That's right. He unslurped this mortal soup.

Which kind of feels like that some days. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, so that was as I got into the... that i was like okay for for years i'd already kind of been a fan of of this movie that we're going to be talking about and um i i wanted to once i realized i'm like oh wait that because he he's so young he almost kind of looks different once you're used to seeing him as the the older version of him that had the big comeback so like right you're like, oh, look, there he is as a kid. So he's just out of college more or less at this point. So he's pretty young in this.

But once I realized it was him, I was like, oh, well, now I want to go talk to you about that. Because other than that, everybody's talking to him about clowns and all his later horror movies. But I'm like, this is an old one that I want to drag out and talk to him about. So I did specifically plan a time and go and sit down. And we got this interview that we're about to get to.

And then it kind of, just to set up the extended time period here, then it just fell into this weird area of like, I went back and found the episode where I set it up and was like, oh, I just talked to Sid today. At that point in that year, I said, and we're doing a Spider Baby special episode, just letting you guys know I recorded a thing. I planted the flag right then. I'm like, we're doing an episode for it. But then it sort of fell into like a little time lapse of like trying to figure out what else to do on that one.

Cause I just had that one short clip with Sid and like had to figure out what else we were going to do on the episode, who else was going to talk about it type of stuff. And then again, real world, I don't think it's a spoiler if you're listening to this show, but Sid passed away. granted it was a few years after but yeah yeah it went into like a a period of i hadn't done anything with it and then sid passed away and then it seemed really weird to like the next week be like hey guess what uh got to this recording with sid like that seemed ghoulish even more than my normal mode so i was like i don't want to do that so then that kind of put it on the back burner for that reason of like well i don't want to turn around and do it right after he passed away because that seems weird and But then it became a really long period.

And like, oh, well, now I don't want to like never get to it. So every year or so I'd be like, yeah, I still got that Sid interview. I want to do the episode about Spider Baby. So I kept sort of reminding myself, I want to get to that. I want to get to that.

And then what sort of made me dust it off, I will be coming to the next interview. And once I saw Beverly was coming to a town near me, I was just like, hey, I have wanted to talk to somebody else involved in the movie. One of the three is not around anymore. So like this, this is it. Like this is my chance to have another piece to put with the Sid interview and then, you know, put together this whole Spider Baby episode.

So that is sort of what led us to this. And I think just to kind of go ahead and jump into it, we should go ahead and throw the Sid interview in right now. The teased Sid interview that I sat down with him. Many years ago. And again, it's not a long interview.

Most of mine weren't. And I will say, sorry for the background noise. This one was at a convention, unfortunately. And this also proves why, if you'll listen to stuff lately, I don't really do stuff at conventions that much anymore because. number one I find it annoying to bother them while they're already doing they've got a lot of stuff going on and I've done it more than I'm comfortable with over the years But also, the sound is so bad. And depending on what convention you're at, they won't shut up on the loudspeakers, which you'll hear.

So just in general, you get a drone in those rooms that's terrible. And then on top of that, there's weird background noise going on. So it is what it is. But again, I'm just glad that I have the audio from the time. So I will take it and work with it.

So there we go. But I think he gets to the heart of what made this movie so different for him. And then part of why it sort of hung around afterwards and became sort of the cult favorite that it was. And then I left in, there was a snippet from that old episode that was him sort of giving his take on, on life. You know, I gave him a sort of wrap up your career type of thing, which I guess is also kind of ghoulish, you know, Since he was sort of towards the end of his life.

But I left it in specifically on this because I think it is very uplifting. And it tells you a lot about Sid and how he looked at things, both his career and life in general. And so, like, I thought that was important to kind of leave in at the end there of, like, him sort of sending you off with the way that he approached his, you know, acting as well as the rest of life. Yeah. No.

No. I agree. After listening to it, you know, and everything, I was going like, oh, that does, man, kind of charge you up at the end. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm glad that's in there. So that was why. And in addition to the Spider Baby wrap up, we've also got a little bit of that at the end. So this is Mr. Sid Haig.

I was a huge fan of Spider-Baby. I kind of wanted to go back in the history. What was the first time you met Jack Hill? Because I know you're in his student film at UCLA, aren't you? Yeah, that's right.

I got a call from one of my teachers at the Pasadena Playhouse after I had graduated. And Jack was having a tough time casting the lead for his student film. So she said, get down there and get the job. So I went down there and I got the job. And Jack and I have been friends and worked together since 1961.

Yeah. Is the host available anywhere? The host is available as a companion disc on Switchblade Sisters. Well, I guess going into Spider Baby, how did he give you that script or how did that first come into being? He gave me a call and he said, do you want to do this thing that I, you know, it's a crazy, whacked out film.

And I said, of course I want to do it. And he said, it's strange because the guy doesn't have any dialogue and that's because he's regressing. And the older you get, you regress more until you just become an animal. And I said, got to do it. So, He wanted me to meet the producers and everything.

So I went down and met the producers. And he said, you know, just do a couple of things, something you think the character might do. And I was, you know, there's no point of reference there, you know. So I started sucking my thumb and playing with my toes and all kinds of stuff. And I finished and I looked at the producers and they had this look on their face like, oh, my God, what did we just do?

So, but it all worked out. Did he already have the look in mind for him? Yeah, yeah, because I had hair at that time, but shaved it off, and there we go. Well, and then I guess when did you find out Lon Chaney Jr. was going to be involved? I found out actually I guess maybe a week before we started shooting, and that just jacked me up.

Like crazy, you know, because, I mean, as a kid, I used to go watch all the Wolfman movies and all that stuff. And the first two days, I was just in awe. And then settled in, and we used to just sit and talk for, you know, hours. See, I mean, he was still kind of having problems at that point. Was it something that he... you kind of could tell was going on or I mean that was towards the end for him I don't know was was he still I was just trying to figure out what you guys relationship was he sort of taking you under his wing and giving you instructions as far as the the professional end.

Of it yeah he was basically acting like a mentor yeah and which was I mean you know what better mentor could you have than you know somebody that's been through everything that he had yeah and He had a problem with alcoholism and stuff like that, but he wanted to do this picture bad enough that he had them put in the contract that he could not have a drink while he was doing the film. And who was there to keep track of that, Jack, or everybody? Everybody was just kind of looking, and he was cool. There was some rumor that he... He liked oranges and he was kind of spiking the oranges with vodka or something.

But I never saw that happen. Well, then I guess what about working with the girls? I guess Jill and Beverly both were really young at that point. What was it like working with them? Yeah.

Beverly was like 20 years old, 22 years old, something like that. And Jill actually lied about her age. She said she was 18, but she was 17. Her mother didn't even know she was doing that film. When she left the house in the morning, she thought she was going to school.

Wow. Yeah. She really wanted to make that movie. Yeah. So there was that little element that we all had to deal with.

And you know, there's a lot of, I mean, there's some kind of, sexual implications that go along with that whole family. They're all screwed up. And, um, so, we, uh, you know, we, we pulled through that and, uh, it all worked out. And it, it's such a, a quirky, odd, creepy kind of movie. And, and it's the only horror film that I've really seen that there's not a drop of blood.

Yeah. But it's so creepy and weird. Yeah. I mean, at the time, it had issues with, like, the producer going bankrupt and the name changes. So how was it?

I mean, it wasn't received well because it had trouble getting distribution at the time. So, I mean, how was it as it unrolled with you guys kind of dealing with, you know, people not even getting to see it, I guess, in the beginning there? Yeah. And that was disappointing. And, you know, Jack was the one that had to deal with all of that.

But a guy named Johnny Legend happened to be in New York. And there's all these cheap theaters on 42nd Street. And he went in and the manager of the theater tried to talk him out of seeing Spider Baby. He goes, no, Lon Chaney Jr., man, he's cool. So he came in and saw it.

And then he got behind it and started pushing for a release. And that's how it all happened. Well, you've just kind of wrapped up. You've been doing this for quite a while now. Midway, I mean, I know I've heard you tell stories of your ups and downs professionally over the years.

Midway in, would you have chosen something different? You know, midway in on the rough times, were you like, I should have gotten to become a carpenter or something? But I don't know. What is your take on the long haul of being a performer? Well, the thing is I had a passion for it, okay?

Was I happy with the kind of work that I was being offered? No. But I was being offered work in something that I love to do. And my message to everybody, and I don't care if it's in show business or selling cars or whatever, if you have a passion for it, then you can't quit. You just have to keep going.

Keep your head high, keep moving forward, and eventually it'll all come together. Sir Sid Haig. He should be knighted. We can do that after the fact. He doesn't have to still be around.

Sir Sid Haig. Yeah, yeah. So I got something to say about that interview and everything. So a personal connection to that is my father-in-law, who lived with us for a while until his passing He was actually an actor at the Pasadena Playhouse at the same time as Sid. And.

And he actually told a story of he knew. Sid back then and remembers him getting a part in a movie where they had to go out and get Sid drunk and shave his head. Which seems to be a running thing, because even in this movie, he had the hair and they got rid of it, so later it just became his signature thing as he got older, but when he was young, he had hair. Yeah, yeah. But it seems to be a go-to for all his roles.

Yeah, so I think it was probably Spider-Baby that he had gotten the role on and everything. And so, yeah, it jogged my memory when Sid in the interview says, Pasadena Playhouse, and. I go like, oh my gosh, my father-in-law was talking about it. Yeah. Yeah.

And so, so anyway, you know, uh, so, uh, my father-in-law, he was, Sid was in town for Dragon Con and he goes like, uh, I think I might go down there and see him. And, uh, so he drives down to Atlanta and, uh, goes up to Sid's booth and he. Goes like, Sid, it's Paul. And Sid was like, you know, who the hell are you? And, I mean, it had been a few years.

It had been, what, you know, what, 40 years? Yeah, sure, sure. So, you know, anyway. But it's kind of interesting, you know. No, no, no, but you see the.

You know, I mainly, I had not seen Spider-Baby until just recently. So, you know, I just mainly knew Sid from like older, you know, exploitation movies or something like that. And, you know, but never really, you know, it was mainly from the Rob Zombie stuff, you know? And so it's real interesting to go back and see Spider-Baby and realize that really is the whole reason he's in these Rob Zombie movies is he's, he's such a, you know, Rob is, uh, you know, just so enamored with spider baby. Uh, so he wanted to get a person from it.

You know? Yeah. It started there. Well, and leading him to all these others. Cause yeah, he leaves this movie and then does another one with Jack Hill.

And then like Jack Hill has that same connection that leads him to all these other weird B movies and horror movies and weird sci-fi he went on to do. And like, so it's just sort of domino effect after this movie of like, this is, this is where you're going to be, man. This is your crowd. Like, And he knew that and he embraced it and he came to love it, you know, as much as it was, I'm sure, a challenge to keep your head above water financially. Like a lot of these were big money jobs as he struggled through a lot of decades there.

But like he had a hell of a career in the process. So. And you just see him everywhere. You'll be watching a movie and you go, there's Sid Haig walking by. You're going, what the heck?

I didn't even know he was in this. What the hell is going on? More than that, he worked on TV so steadily. You needed a random tough guy in a movie from the late 70s through the mid 80s. He was probably there.

He was a dude with a shaved head that got in a fight with whoever the lead on this show is. And like, there's just so many times when I'm just like, oh, look, there's Sid. Like, I'll just be watching me TV with the old man footage that I'm usually watching. And it's just like, hey, look, there's Sid. That's it.

Yeah, and so, you know, you can say whatever you want to say if you like the Rob Zombie movies or not. You know, you got to give them props for putting, you know, Bill Moseley and Sid Haig, like, in the front of a movie franchise, you know? That's what I've always said. It's like, regardless of what I think about his movies... Right.

He and I as people have the exact same tastes. Exactly. Rob Zombie has the best taste because we like all the same stuff. Yeah. So it's always weird sometimes when even like I see one of the later movies and I'm just like, I don't I don't know what he's going for here.

But like all of his references throughout, I love. Yeah. Like we all love the same stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I like what's happening here. I don't know if I like the movie, but I like what's happening. I like all these things that you're pulling from. I like these things, right. Because we all have the same, you know, core memories that we grew up loving these cheesy things.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. This is what led us here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he just needs to turn the volume down sometimes.

Sometimes. You know how rock stars are. Yeah, that's true. He's too loud. I guess I'm too old and everything.

That's what it is. That's what it is. Oh, man. So, yeah. Cool interview.

What I found fascinating from some of the special features I watched was supposedly the sound. There was like all these problems recording the production sound during the movie, you know, and like generators in the background and like all this other random noise and everything. And so the version that you get now on a DVD is a, the, the sound as the, the sound mix has been cleaned up a lot, you know? So supposedly they were able to like really fix a lot of the problems that, you know, the, the, the random background noise, you know, and, own spider baby that they had and so it got a real professional mix for the re-release so that's that's pretty awesome. I bet it was very different if you were watching it in like the in between years when it like if some grindhouse got a hold of it and just showed whatever physical copy got shipped to them one day like how messy that print must have been and how messed up the audio probably was and scenes that were missing because i think they even talk about adding a scene back in when the re-release happened so like right it's yeah i bet it's a very different experience watching it in the theater back in the day for the few people as yeah you know we'll be discussing like it right didn't get a huge response at the time yeah a while before the the fan base caught up with it so.

Definitely definitely yeah no they uh supposedly you know it was just like a you know, if it showed on TV was from a scratched up, beat up 16 millimeter print of it that just looked terrible. And I think that's my first, my first exposure to the movie was actually on like a VHS. I had called a horrible horror, which is like something you would get at a, like at a drugstore, you know, when they had like VHS racks and that was just one of the random cheap, you know, made for the VHS market, where it was. Or stuff that fell into public domain. It's where you picked up every copy of Night of the Living Dead over the years for $ 6 sitting next to the register at Halloween.

Yeah, next to the freaking Skittles and the Twizzlers, you know, and everything. You're like, ooh, I do need a copy of, a really bad copy of Night. Of the Living Dead. A terrible copy of Night of the Living Dead. Well, this thing was like a collection of just clips.

From like cheesy. be you know public domain horror movies stuff and live and breathe you know basically basically and it was hosted by that host zacherly you. Know yeah yeah. He was he was kind of the last old school guy like i guess yeah it's been passed off to spin gooley but sure really used to be like the go-to old school leftover horror host. Yeah absolutely absolutely And so this was just one of the multiple movies on that, where they showed some clips from. And I was going like, what the hell is this?

Which is a legit question. Yeah, yeah. I was like, what? You know, because it's like a highly featured Sid Haig, like, you know, acting like a baby man. And you're going like, what is baby man movie anyway?

You know? A masterpiece. That's what it is. A masterpiece. Right.

Who knew? Who knew? You know? Yeah. The only other thing I was going to say as a follow up, because at the time, back in the olden days when I sat down with him, I did ask him where the host was.

If you buy the special edition of Spider Baby, it also comes with a version of the host on that disc. So I was watching it myself a week or so ago. And it's pretty awesome. Once again, it's cool seeing a young version of Sid in this weird little like. homemade movie more or less it's just his student film at the time jack kill was putting this together and needed an actor and that's how they came together was making this movie the host so. Yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah i watched a little bit of it i went out and bought the uh two disc set too so and so all my movies i've been buying lately are old well that one i got before this was faster pussycat and then now this one you know so I mean.

That's most of my purchases. Yeah, yeah. Everything I'm getting, and I'll find, I just get suckered in. I'm a sucker for physical media anyway, but specifically any special edition version, which is how this happened and why we're doing it now, because if you'll remember. Right.

We were going to do this episode, and then after it was a couple of days in, I was like, I think I'm going to go ahead and get that special edition. Yeah, yeah. And then I can lay into all these special features and come into it with all this extra stuff that we now hear about. Right, right. That's why we're doing it now instead of just after I watched it, you know, the random streaming version that I watched a couple of weeks back before.

Right, right. And then I suckered you into it. So you're welcome, the people that make that Blu-ray, because now you've sold two more copies. and absolutely i sold you on one of them. So yeah no i it was kind of a crappy copy on amazon streaming and everything that i watched and i was going like this all right so you know spoilers i mean i was so impressed by this that you know i was going like oh i'd like a have a cleaned up copy you know a decent print you know of this you know um So yeah, yeah, I mean, it was, yeah, I'm glad I got it, and I'm glad I got a good print, because, yeah, it was a real revelation to me, watching this. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I am about to get into, I watched a cleaned-up copy with. Our next guest, but before we get out of this, I will say that that wrap-up at the end, that his, you know, his advice to all of us out there is, keep. Going, keep your head high, keep moving forward. And eventually it'll all come together.

That's it. And I was like, that's just such a, an all encompassing, like it's not even about the business. It's just kind of your day-to-day life, man, is you just, you just got to keep going. Like you just got to keep moving forward and, and, you and I know it's rough. Yeah.

Yeah. We have our discussions like this because they're therapy and there's a lot going on in our lives. And like, sometimes you just need to hear that. And like hearing it from, from Sid, you know, he's, he's a hero to all of us. So it's really nice to kind of know, you know, even, even somebody as cool as Sid had, had that, that, you know, sometimes you just, it's a fight, but you got to get through it, man.

Yep. Yep. Everybody has to like, you know, he had been there, He had to keep his head up. He had to keep moving. And so, yeah, he had been there, and he had done it, and, you know.

Eventually he was able to have some peace and some recognition and some, well, you know, just be okay. You know, it's kind of like this person who's been through war and said, like, it's going to be all right. You know, just got to keep walking forward. And eventually, like, he found all that. That's why I said earlier, like, the decades of fighting, because it really wasn't until that comeback in the, like, 2000 you know the very early yeah once he started with the rob zombie stuff like that sort of flipped the switch and it's like you know then he's in jackie brown and he's in like all of this like he had that little resurgence and then like then the convention world discovered he was out there and like he from that point on like everybody would line up and go see sid and he was so cool and they all loved him and like so he felt that love it just took long time to get there you know it's like think about all those years of working in an industry yeah and just barely getting by for a lot of those years and and to the point that he was finding other careers midway in you know I remember talking to him years ago about that of like you know you just had to make do but I kept at it and yeah still trying to make the make ends meet and pay the bills and like get on to the next thing and like he stayed with it but yeah, it took him that long before the, the fan base caught up and was like, Oh no, we love you.

Like it just, so I'm so glad he got to it because that's the sad thing that we'll be covering soon is that, you know, several people in the cast didn't really get to have that moment. So I really am glad that, that I'm glad that, that Sid got to have that. And then we, we definitely talk about that with our next guest. So I did, uh, as I said, uh, Beverly Washburn was coming to town and I was like, Oh, that's, that's awesome. That's the reason I want to start getting this going again and put everything together.

So, um, ended up sitting down with her. This wasn't, and I've said earlier with, with, uh, you know, celebrities being patient with me. Um, I always assume they're like, all right, let's get this over with. And so we, we sat down and we, we were, we had to, find a good place. Cause once again, it's noisy everywhere.

This is my fight with audio is just, where can I be away from all this noise? So the best option I found was outside actually. Cause in the, in the whole, it was like a hotel and all these big rooms and people milling around everywhere. I was like, Oh, this is terrible. But there was like a little outside area that was like a courtyard more or less and had tables set up and some chairs and like, it was just late enough in the day.

It wasn't hot. And I was like, all right, let's try this. So I went and set everything up and, um, I assumed again, we, we would just kind of sit there long enough. And like, I, I tried to give a, a get out of jail free card. I was like, you know, we can just kind of cover this and wrap it up quickly.

And she seemed okay with that. And then we got into it and we do this session, which is, which is a very, a really nice discussion about the movie. Um, But this is what's interesting and what you don't, I won't leave, you know, audio running for the whole rest of the time. But we then, after we were done, I was just like, okay, I assumed I'm just going to pack it up and go. And she just kind of hung out there.

Nice. And this was amazing to me. And this is like when I wonder, because it's such an ordeal trying to put these shows together sometimes, that I ask myself, why do I do this? I give myself so much work putting these episodes together. And most of the time, I don't know that anybody cares.

But I got to that moment and I was like, we sat there for a really long time after the interview. And we talked about her life now. And we talked about just the convention scene and like, you know, what. what the industry has been like over these years since she's, you know, she's still kind of working, but like, you know, when she was working, you know, a lot back in the day and what she's been doing in the years since. And like, it just became a really long, relaxed conversation sitting outside. And it was nice.

Amazing. And I'm like, so I'm so thankful to her for being cool and hanging out with me, but also just the, that's the reason I'm doing this. Like I have those moments and I'm like, yes, I want the episode to come together and we can do these cool things. But at the same time, every once in a while, I have those moments that I'm just like, this person was awesome. And I got to be here because of the show.

And like, so that's why I keep at it. Like I hit those moments every once in a while. And Beverly was one of those. And I thank you to her because yeah, this, this interview is great. And she was awesome to hang out with even after the interview.

So. I will go to that courtyard right now, and we will welcome Beverly on right now. So you'd actually been acting for quite a while by the time you got to Spider Baby, so I guess in reference to that, my question is, How did it come to you, I guess, as a script first? And then what did you think of it? Because it's a little different than what you'd been doing when.

You were younger. Yes, it is very different than anything I've done. That's why I was so excited to get the part. I had never done that kind of a role because I had done things like, you know, Old Yeller and Superman and the Mole Man and Lone Ranger and Wagon Train and Leave it to Beaver. Epic stuff.

Things like that. And so I got cast in a very strange way. I happened to be, like usually when you get a part, you have an agent. And they'll call you and they say, you know, we've got an audition for you to go read for the role or whatever. And so this one time I was grocery shopping.

And it seemed like every time I turned down an aisle, this man was kind of like following me or something. And I got a little nervous. And this went on for a few minutes. And then he came up to me. And he said, excuse me, I'm not stalking you or anything.

You look familiar. You're an actress, right? And I said, yes. And he said, well, I'm getting ready to do a film. And at the time, it was going to be called The Cannibal Orgy.

And right off the bat, it's like, what? That line is in there, so it's not out of the blue. Just a little weird. And so I thought it sounded kind of strange. And he said, we're looking to cast a couple of roles, and I think you might be right for one of the girls, would you be interested?

And I thought, well, first of all, the cannibal orgy sort of threw me off. And so he said, well, let me give you all the information and have your agent call. So then when he said that, I thought, well, maybe it's legitimate because it wasn't like he said, you know, come up to my hotel room or something. And so when I got home the next, you know, the next day I called my agent and I said, this is weird, but somebody at the Ralph's grocery store was there and he told me they're casting a film and that I should call you and find out about it. So I gave him the information that this guy, Bart Patton, who was, um, in the film and not in the film, he was like one of the, not a producer.

He was something rather, I don't know, in production. Anyway, he was a really nice guy. So, my agent checked on it and he called me back and he goes, yeah, it's legitimate. They're casting. So he said, you know, your audition time, whatever it was, a Thursday or something.

So he said, go there. They want you to read for the role. So when I went there, there were like so many girls in the lobby waiting to go in and read. And, um, so they brought us, it's called the sides, which is, it's not the whole script. Cause they're not going to give you the whole script then, but they give you like, two or three scenes to read and they let you look it over while you're waiting and then you go in and read.

So I looked at the part and I went in and they brought us in two at a time. And then they would say, okay, you can stay and you go, you stay, you go. And each time I kept making the cut, I was excited because they would tell the other girl to go and I could stay. So this went on for quite a while. And then finally they came to me and they said, okay, you can go.

And I was disappointed because I thought that meant I didn't get the part. And so, but anyway, then it was like the next day. This was many, many years ago, as you know. And anyway, so back then we didn't have cell phones or anything. Didn't page you.

Yeah, right. And I was in my 20s. And so my older sister always knew where I was as a backup. So my agent had my sister's. number as well. So my mother and I, the following weekend, we went to San Francisco because Jack Jones was going to be singing there.

And while we were there, my sister called and said, you got a call from your agent and you got the part in this movie. So I was so excited. And I asked Jack about that later, you know, because I thought for sure when they told me I could go. Yeah. And he was so sweet.

He they decided that I would be playing Elizabeth, but they needed to keep seeing more girls for the part of, oh my God. Jill, right? Jill, no. Well, yeah, Jill Banner. But the part was Virginia, her name was.

They needed somebody to fill that role. So anyway, I was thrilled. And at the time, I had no idea that, this movie would be so loved by people now all these years later because it was a very low budget film and we filmed it I think it was 13 days and it sat for a long time but Quentin Tarantino is a good friend of Jack Hill's and you know he's kind of a quirky guy and he loved the film and so thanks to Quentin he kind of went to bat and had it all re-digitized or whatever it is they do because At the time, it was kind of grainy and stuff, so now it's out on DVD and Blu-ray and everything. Yeah, I was telling you before we started, I was watching it streaming last night, and as I'm sitting there, I was just like, it looks so good.

I was like, even this sent through the Internet. after it's been digitized and like the fact that it this many years later looks that good that you're getting in your home for free. Like that's crazy. Well, thank you, Brian. That, you know, I've, I've been very blessed and fortunate that I've done a lot of work over the years, mostly as a child and a teenager, but spider baby is always just, just one of my favorites and it touches my heart and makes me feel so happy that people still embrace it and how much they love it. And, um, you know, they've got merchandise, they've got t-shirts and backpacks and blankets and shower curtains and everything.

And it's amazing to me. And I always am so happy when people remember it. Well, you, you mentioned Jack Hill. What, what was he like as a director? He was fabulous.

In fact, you know, I'm going to be doing, um, a convention, Monster Bash, coming up in a couple of weeks. And Jack was supposed to be there. I was wondering if he... traveled at all now. You know he's in his 90s and so you know as you get older it gets harder and harder to travel and everything but he was planning on being there because last year he was at um monsterama and he loved being there and he has such a big fan following and he's so dear and he was wonderful as a director he was just kind and um i'm just so happy But sadly, he and I are pretty much the only ones left from Spider-Man. Mary Mitchell is still alive, but she's in retirement.

She doesn't do any conventions or anything. So basically, it's just Jack and Mary and I are the only ones still alive from the movie. Well, that was, I mean, as far as, I guess, was he directing you? Because, as we said, you were doing a lot of Leave it to Beaver. Literally, Leave it to Beaver.

So, like, as you get into the weirder subject matter... did you already kind of have a handle on it or was he just sort of steering you in the like, go down this road? Yeah, well, you know, it's such a campy kind of, you know, there's one outtake. In fact, well, Rob Zombie, who you're horror fans, who all know Rob Zombie, he was a big fan or is a big fan of Spider Baby. And he put out the soundtrack. And he was such, I haven't met him in person, but we've emailed and he's so nice.

And he asked me if, you know, I would be part of the soundtrack and so he interviewed me and he put my picture on the cover and it's if anybody has seen that soundtrack it's the craziest picture because I'm making this stupid face and there's a story behind that because I had forgotten my next line and I didn't know The camera was rolling. And so I looked straight in the camera and made like a stupid face. And it's so campy, this film, that they actually left it in the film. It was not scripted. But it's very quick.

You have to look for it. Because I think it's after that scene where I have the pitchfork. Somewhere along there. You're usually messing with your sister a lot. It's quick.

But it's just sad that Jill Banner, who was wonderful as Virginia, Spider Baby, and Lon Chaney, that they didn't live long enough to see the popularity of it. Because. Lon Chaney, he was a joy to work with, and that was what got me so excited when they said it was going to be Lon Chaney in the star. To work with him was amazing. And Jill was a doll.

But, you know, typically on a film you work like three months, or sometimes, you know, in today's world you work like a year. Could be, yeah. And this was so quick that we didn't have enough time to really, like, bond and hang out because we had to get this film done. But we all got along so well. Sid Haig, for horror fans.

I love Sid. I know. Anybody that had the fortune of meeting Sid will attest to the fact that he was one of the nicest guys ever. And he loved his fans. Oh, yeah.

He absolutely loved his fans. And it took him, I remember talking to him about this, like it took him so long before he found that love. Like he was just a struggling actor for so long. And then, like, he hit that, like, comeback phase. And, like, people lined up to see him.

So, like, it took him. He had to hang in there. But, like, eventually he just was so beloved. I loved him. And he was so good in that.

And then Jack cast the two of us in another one of his films, Pit Stop, to get to play with Sid again. And just, you know, losing Sid was just, it was just tragic. He just was such a joy to be around. And I just feel so fortunate. that I was able to work with him twice. And Jack, he was a fabulous director because, you know, a director is there to direct and that's what he does, but yet he gives the actors kind of some leeway to, you know, incorporate their interpretation.

I mean, and he's so soft-spoken and just so sweet. Did you ever get to meet him? No. I wish you could have. I think he hasn't done much.

We've been doing this for a lot of years, but I think he just hasn't ventured this far into the country that we've crossed over. Yeah, yeah. And he was supposed to be, of course, you know, next month in Pennsylvania, and he was looking forward to it, but sadly he fell. Yeah. I'll tell you a cute story about him.

He's very quiet and soft-spoken, a real gentleman. And a couple years ago, they had a screening of Spider Baby somewhere. And afterward, it was just Jack and me because Sid was doing something else and everybody else was already gone. And so after the screening, they asked if Jack and I would go up and do this little kind of I guess it was a podcast or maybe a local TV station or whatever it was. So the moderator guy, the interview guy, he turns to Jack and he goes, Jack, I have to ask you this question because Spider Baby is such a quirky little, out there, bizarre, strange little film.

And he said, I'm just curious, like, how did that come about? Like, how would you sit down and write such a strange little film? So Jack goes, well... I was smoking a lot of weed back then. It's like, okay, that explains it.

Honesty. That's what we like. That's what we like. It was just so cute because nobody expected that coming from him. And he's like 90, you know.

It was just cute. But that sort of kind of sums it up, doesn't it? Definitely. Well, and I did want to ask a little bit about Jill because she was so young. Yes. you'd grown up in it but she also hadn't really done.

Anything before she was wonderful she was so perfect in the role and such a pretty lady and so sweet and we got along great and um it was tragic i'm sure the fans know that sadly she passed away in an. Automobile yeah i didn't know for the longest time and i went, why haven't, you know, I hadn't seen her in anything or I hadn't seen her at any of these conventions. And then I looked it up. I was like, oh, that's terrible. I wish so much she was here and Sid and Lon.

You know, every day is a gift that we're here. You never know. But I'm just grateful. You know, and like, Brian, thank you for doing this, because it's always fun to talk about Spider Baby, and Spider Baby is one of my all-time favorites. In fact, two years ago, I was in Italy.

It was for a Star Trek convention. It was all about Star Trek, which I did an episode, and I love doing Star Trek, too. But anyway, this young, really cute guy, he was like in his 20s, came up. He couldn't speak English or anything, but he wanted my autograph. And he wanted my autograph on a Spider Baby DVD.

It was like, what? It was so cute. It just cracked me up. Here I'm in space. In Italy, and he's got a spider baby.

Yeah, it goes beyond language barriers and across the oceans. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Well, and then just the shoot itself, I was going to ask about that. That house doesn't make any sense, really.

So where were the scenes where you shot? Well, the house was a real house, and as the story goes, from what I learned, is that it was an abandoned house, and it was kind of off the side of a freeway. And, you know, typically when you do a film, you have to get permits and everything to film there. If you're a big budget movie. And so Jack, this is what I heard, was driving by and spotted this old house.

And it looked like, you know. It looks cool. It looked like it would fit the Mary family. And so basically we just kind of took a chance and went there without a permit and shot there the whole day. And nobody cared.

Nobody cared. We got arrested or anything. And then the interior, we couldn't go inside. It was like really broken down inside. And so the inside was filmed on a studio, Alpha Omega Studios.

And I think it was either... I don't remember, Eagle Rock or Pasadena or Glendale or something so long ago. I don't remember exactly where it was. But it was a very cool set with the cobwebs and the whole thing. And the rocking chair that Uncle Peter gets tied up in, that was actually Jack's rocking chair that he brought from home.

And broke. Yeah. And got in trouble. Yeah. But it was such a fun movie to do.

But as I said, after we did it, nothing happened. It just kind of sat there for the longest time. And to think now that there's merchandise and that it's out on Blu-ray and Rob Zombie did the soundtrack and it's been in a lot of fans and I get fan mail from it. And I just feel so grateful to have been a part of Spider Baby. I really do.

Yeah. It's an amazing movie, I have to say. Well, thank you. I mean, I guess it's not for everybody. Definitely not.

Well, I think that's why I was so drawn to it. That first time I saw it years ago and I was like, it's just so different. And especially for its time, because there's like horror going back to the dawn of cinema. But even for its time, it's so weird and different from all the other movies coming out around then. Yeah, it's different and it's like a... horror film but it's not really a slasher film like with a lot of blood and gore it's just kind of kind of campy and throughout there's these little innuendos that some people pick up more.

So as it goes on i forgot as we get to the end i'm like oh yeah it's very it's almost racy. At this point and you know in the movie business as people i'm sure already know this if an actor can't cry they have a makeup person on the sidelines and what they do is If they want you to look like you've got tears in your eyes, I've never fortunately had to do this because I cry at supermarket openings. Anyway, they blow something in your eyes or something to make your eyes water. And if they want tears coming down, they have an eyedropper and they put something like glycerin or whatever so that it picks up on the camera. So in the scene where Lon Chaney's crying, the makeup person is like standing there you know, off waiting to do that.

They never needed the makeup person because Lon Chaney was so into being Bruno. He loved that role and he was immersed in it. And he loved that part so much that when he had to start crying, those are his real tears. Those were his honest to God, real tears. There's no makeup person needed. it was real.

He's yeah. He's so good in that. Like, especially that scene, like that's like, it's like building, he's just sort of doing what he needs to do most of them, but then it's like he stops and realizes what he's going to have to do and what's best for the kids. And yeah, it's actually very touching. And then of course, Mantan Moreland, I mean, he just having him in the film was cool.

And, um, and Quinn, you know, he, Sadly, he passed away not too long ago. And, yeah, one by one, everybody's. So I feel fortunate that I'm still above ground. I think that myself some days. You never know.

Yeah. So, but it's always fun to talk about Spider Baby. And I, I mean, I, I can't get over how well loved it is from people from literally. I got a letter from Hong Kong. and one from Holland, and from, you know, like, all these different countries, and I think, how do they know about Spider-Babies? It's amazing.

Movie fans are hardcore. Yeah, and wonderful. It means so much, you know, and like, doing these conventions, like this one, Wonderfest, it's the first time I'm here, but the fans are just so kind, and it's so nice, they come up to us at our table, and they always say, thank you for being here, and I think, you know, That's so nice, but I think it should be the other way around, that we should be thanking the fans. Because honestly, if it weren't for the fans, we'd have no reason to be here or to do any of this. So I'm always grateful to the fans.

Well, that's amazing. Well, is there anything else you want to tell people? You did say you've got another appearance coming up, or is there anything new you want to tell people about or where they should look for you? Well, I'm going to be doing a little documentary in August. I don't know when it'll be finished.

I'm doing a little cameo in it. And then I did a pilot for a film that will probably be streaming. It's called Dusty Bluffs, and that's supposed to be coming out in August. And that was a fun role because I play this over-the-top, crazy woman um it was a lot of fun so i'm still doing it i'm still doing what i love and i just feel very grateful to still be doing it and meeting the fans is always one of my favorite parts because without fans none of this would mean anything you know and. You can still play crazy is what we found out after all these years.

Crazy is still just. Right below the surface Do you still send people to find your book? I know you've got the. Yeah, I do have a book. It's called Real Tears, and it's spelled R-E-E-L, because that's how old I am.

Back in the days when I first started, they didn't have digital stuff like they do now. It was actually a film reel. It's coveted now. Again, the hardcore fans love it when they get to see something on film. Oh, really?

And so, you know, most people remember me from... I don't know why, but it seemed like just about every part I ever had, I had to cry. And people would say, were those real tears or were they fake? So it was kind of a play on words. So it's called Real Tears because the films I did were unreal and the tears were real.

So it's called Real, spelled R-E-E-L, Real Tears, take two, and it's available on Amazon and And it's my autobiography. And I wrote with the help of Donald Vaughn. And it's out there on Bear Manor Media as well as Amazon. And it's my autobiography and all about growing up in Hollywood as a child actress and my whole life story. And there's a lot of photos in it and everything.

And also, I write a column for the Vegas Voice. and that's a monthly magazine that comes out. It's on the Internet. It's just called The Vegas Voice. It's a magazine basically for seniors, but my column is called Hollywood Memories, and I've been writing for 15 years. So that's been fun, and that's what I've been doing.

That's terrific. Well, thank you for being here, and thank you for sharing your stories. Thank you. Yeah no no kidding man yeah no that was cool there was a human moment there uh that you shared with her that's pretty cool and uh awesome yeah yeah no she seemed real laid. Back and uh real uh down to earth and you know just kind of like you know cool lady you know she.

Was she was very cool um also again like somebody that was just came into it and and just was the threw herself into it early I suppose and then like because I was looking today I was like what is the overall number IMDB which again you can put as much faith in that as you want uh it's around 90 different film and tv projects over these you know so it's like starting off as early as she did and being in some pretty huge projects early on while she was still a child essentially like that's, that's crazy to have that much. And then, you know, as, as you heard, I talked to her about like going from, you know, at this point you can use leave it to beaver as a generic term for like mainstream America or something super square and boring, but like, no, she literally was on leave it to beaver and then went on a few years later to be in spider baby, you know, it's like to be thrust into the middle of this, craziness that is spider babies so that that was my you know like how how crazy is this part of your career that you're like going from very normal mainstream sitcoms to yeah crazy abandoned house with jack hill.

Yeah no you could you could imagine like kids who probably had a crush on her in uh the leave of the beaver years and everything growing up and then you know, she growing up and like being in spider baby and spider baby being like their favorite movie because like, Oh. Man, she's so cool now, you know? But, um, no, no, it's what's so interesting. What she says is like this thing shot in 67, you know, or whatever, you know, 67 was, uh, you know, like 14 days of their lives or something like that. Like, like, about two weeks of shooting, you.

Know, that we're still talking about all these years later. It's so weird. Two weeks. So she says like, not really, you know, it wasn't like, you know. They, it was like something they did and it came and went and then it got released like barely and came.

And went sitting around on a shelf for a while. Cause the, yeah, the people funding it like went bankrupt and then it had like legal issues like they always do. And like, so yeah, it, it wasn't an easy release even then. And then after that kind of like, didn't have that much of a response and like, it's only years since then of like, then showing up on home video kind of upped it a little bit. And then the, the, the weirdo next level of film geeks that like latched onto it.

And, and I definitely want to get to that later, but yeah, I think that's what sort of raised it up to a new level where it then could eat out there and get out there in a good format and a good version of it. But yeah, yeah yeah so even the streaming version that's what i said there the the streaming version i watched for free in my house was really good so i think it's hit and miss i think you have to you just have to figure out which one is the better version because it's out there so many different places over the years but the random one that i happened to pick was streaming for free on whatever streaming format popped up on roku And, like, it was the remastered version, and it looked great, and the sound was great.

And, like, so even, you know, it's filtered its way through to that version when they redid everything. And, like, that's awesome. That's one more reason to redo movies and to get these good copies out there, because... we're going to latch onto it at some point. So it's like, we need a good copy of it. Don't, you know, I, I'm always so concerned when some of these like old movies are disappearing and like, nobody bothers to take care of them.

Certainly back in the old days when like the film itself was deteriorating. But even now, like if you don't remaster it and like put out a good copy of it, you may not have a version of it to do that after enough time passes. So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm thankful that they did that because it looks really good. Absolutely absolutely if you don't get it when it's like 12 bucks and five years or six years from now you'll only be able to find like a 200 version of it on you know ebay or something like that you know so it's like you kind of gotta swipe up a version sometimes. When you when you can you know pick and choose that's what i'm saying yeah yeah physical media grab the good versions when they're out there that's right that's right So once again, yeah, I thank you to Beverly.

I do like her wrap up is maybe a little more grim than Sid's because hers is I feel fortunate that I'm still above ground. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of the takeaway from this and where we're eventually going is the fact that, you know, of the four main people kind of in this, you know, family cast, like two of them never got to see it be beloved. You know, it's like the other half of the cast. One almost immediately was gone, and the other shortly thereafter.

So, like, you didn't... You know, for them, you didn't get to see that it became this cult favorite and that people... Decades later, we're still loving it, but... Right. Yeah, so.

They had no idea. It was just something they did for two weeks, and then it disappeared, and they moved on with life, you know? Moved on with life. But yeah, luckily, she and Sid both got to experience it, and like she said, she's getting letters from Hong Kong and Holland. Like, it's just, it's amazing the way that it's, like, worked its way into pop culture and finds its audience regardless, so.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Totally. And yeah, she did put her book out. So I was, yeah, once again, go find her book.

She's got an amazing story. So go out there and pick it up and send her a message. She's still glad to hear from people. So she really seemed to appreciate people showing up at the show and even just me sitting there talking to her. She liked, you know, that somebody wanted to hear the story.

So like that's, not everybody has that response I've found over the years. So it's really nice when somebody sort of still likes talking. Again, a thing that they did for two weeks decades ago. Like some weirdo is going to come up and be like, Hey, tell me about that time. You know, can I tell you about a time I went to work 40 years ago?

No, exactly. Exactly. She still kind of has to do that and like, and appreciates it and was really great about sitting there telling stories. So like, yeah, that, that was awesome. So thank you once again to Beverly.

That was, that was really cool. All right, are we ready to dig into the movie as a whole? As the movie proper. Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.

Let's get in there. It's time for Sofa Theater. American General Pictures imprisons you in a bloody web of terror. Spider-Baby has the seductive innocence of Lolita and the savage hunger of a black widow. Spider-Baby will give you nightmares forever.

No man that loves her lives to love another. Her sweet kisses engulf you in a bloody web of horror. Spider-Baby will thrill you, then kill you. Starring Spider-Baby and Lon Chaney. For the horror thrill of your life, see Spider Baby from American General Pictures.

Spider Baby, Spider Baby, Spider Baby, Spider Baby, Spider. Baby, yeah! Spider Baby, Spider. Baby, Spider Baby, Spider Baby, Spider Baby, yeah! I met Spider-Baby when I.

Went to her house. Yeah! Then I met her sister. Bring this girl around. Yeah!

Dark and horror, web of terror. Savage hunger, getting nearer. Spider-Girl walk everywhere. Spider-Girl walk everywhere. Spider-Baby, Spider-Baby, Spider-Baby, Spider-Baby.

This special edition Silver Theater feature is Spider-Baby, or The Maddest Story Ever Told. The year is 1967. The director is Jack Hill. And the plot, according to IMDb, and I already said you can put as much faith in them as you want. I don't so much with this.

Their breakdown is, a household of cannibals take drastic measures when distant relatives question their sanity. So, not exactly... 100%. I mean, it's accurate, but not really. It sounds like a different movie.

Yeah, not really a good representation of what the movie actually is. No, no, no. Absolutely not. I don't know about that one. But either way, spoiler alert, we're going to ruin the hell out of this.

But again, why would you be this far in listening to all this if you haven't watched the movie? But just in case, go watch the movie. Yeah, it's definitely worth it. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

The other reason, as I said, I was putting this together, and I've Been working on it for years and years. But once I got to recording with Beverly and I was like, okay, now I got to put the rest of this part together as the sort of wraparound of our interviews. So I was like, well, who's coming along on this journey with me? And I almost immediately was like, well, obviously, like this is right in your wheelhouse of things that you're super dorky about. Absolutely.

So I kind of assumed that you'd seen it. But as you said, you hadn't in its entirety seen it before. So I guess that's going to be my take for you on this. You came into it with fresh eyes recently. So I guess what was your overall view of it once you watched it this first time in its entirety?

Okay, right, right, right. So its reputation precedes it. And a lot of the time, sometimes with these movies, these cult films, You know, people saw them when they were 12 and it really affected them and then you know you went by the if you didn't grow up with it and you know idolize it and. You know it didn't hit you at the right time when your brain. Was soft and you know when you had an open mind on things you know these movies don't you know, hit the same way sometimes.

Some of you go like, ah, well, it's got that one good scene in it, but it's not really my thing, you know? Or sometimes it doesn't hold up either. There's definitely stuff I watched as a kid and thought was awesome, but then 15, 20 years go by before I watch it again. And then I'm like, oh, look, here's a copy of it. I'm going to watch it.

And I'll watch it again and be like, oh, this isn't really that great. But that is not the case with this movie. No, no, absolutely not. So, uh, so I am, you know, comfortably middle-aged here and, uh, walking into this movie, having just sort of known, you know, people love it. And, uh, and, uh, whatchamacallit, knowing from those these little grainy, crappy, uh, clips from a public, you know, a public domain compilation horror thing, uh, that I talked about earlier.

And, um, but not really knowing anything, then putting it on and actually sitting and watching it from beginning to end, you know, so you got to get past the first scene where the character is kind of doing a, a step and fetch it kind of, uh, you know, uh, stereotype. You know i don't know i think we get into the best part right away because you get those opening credits oh right those animated versions of everyone are a adorable and creepy which is always what i'm looking for yeah anything i want i want to also have a little creepy element to it but they're also so cute it's ridiculous the little drawing of sid you know it's like. Yeah most adorable thing no the opening credit music with the music which is again the Most adorable creepy thing ever brought to you by Lon Chaney Jr.

Lon Chaney Jr. singing that opening song is so... Yeah, you just know already you're in good hands or like this is going to be different. And the fact is so sad. I mean, because he sounds. I've heard entirely separate stories, some of which said, I didn't see him drinking.

So, I don't know. I mean, we definitely know in life he had a problem. But at this point, he was trying to not drink. So, like, I don't know. Maybe he was.

Maybe that's just how he sounds. Yeah, I don't know. It sounded real slurry to me. But maybe he had to get loosened up a little bit for singing, making his singing debut. It's as much.

Talking as it is singing, but it's fun regardless. It's great. It's great. And I'm not making light of the problems he had and everything, but it's a fantastic opening credit, and that... opening theme song is just so perfect it's kind of like got monster mash kind of yeah you know. For the dorky monster kids that are out there like and we all sort of fall into that same category of like hit and miss specifics you may not like but there's just a mode that you fall into that you're just like oh no this is my thing And like you, you, you know, the same dorks that rock out with Monster Mash year in and year out, not even Halloween.

Like you could be listening to it in the middle of July. Right, right, right. So yeah, it's like, those are the same people that are going to come to this and be like, this song is the greatest song. I've ever heard. Totally, totally.

And Jack did that on purpose. Like in that special edition stuff, like he specifically says, I wanted to let people know right away. He's like, I wanted them to know right up front. that this is going to be a fun movie. And like, because again, like there's always been like sort of horror comedy mixed in there, but this was still kind of early on for that concept because it is almost equal parts sometimes. Like it's definitely still a horror movie, but it knows it's being silly a lot of the time.

So it's, it's pretty close to just horror comedy full on. And yeah, He wanted to let people know that, like he wanted to kind of give them a heads up right from the start of like, it's okay. Like this is, we're not taking ourselves too seriously. So it's okay for you to have fun with this movie too. That's, I love it.

You know, I think, I think this movie, what it got so perfect was that tone. All right. Well, of where it almost just makes it impervious to criticism and, because it's, it knows itself so well, and it just has just the right, it, it, it's really, it kind of, like, made me go, like, I kind of need to see all Jack Hill's movies now, because I don't think I've seen any of them. I was looking at the list, and even, like, you know, like his Pam Greer work and everything. I haven't seen it.

I've seen some of those, but yeah, there's definitely a lot that I'm still missing that I want to go fill in those holes. Yeah, yeah. And so I was just going like, this is so assured in like knowing what kind of movie this is and making it, it's telling you exactly, it's okay to like this because we know we're in on the joke. And so if we're not trying to like, you know, give you nightmares or anything. We're kind of, as kind of what we were saying earlier, it's just like a good hang, you know, it's like, we're going to hang out, we're going to do some crazy stuff.

And, you know, we have these severe limitations on what we're able to do, but the tone is so perfect that you don't care. Like when the dynamite goes off and they just shake the cameras up like that, you. Just kind of like, you're kind of like, that's actually so charming, you know? And, uh, I think the scene that got me where I was going like, oh man, this movie is totally in on it, is when the lawyer comes up on the dumb waiter, you know, and he's still got the cigar in his mouth, you know? And I was just like, that is so funny.

It doesn't matter if it's realistic it's funny is more important than whether it's what would actually happen if you murdered someone with a cigar in their mouth absolutely so you're. Just kind of like oh this movie no this movie is not meant for you to because some of the stuff is like real like you know the weird psychosexual stuff in the movie is or you know there's I guess there's like really rape in the movie you know, and. Really, because had this movie. It's getting there. Yeah.

We don't really know what happens at that one point, and the other parts sometimes get interrupted, so yeah. Yeah. I try not to think too much about that, but... Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stuff in this movie, had it not been handled with, like, a lighter touch, would be very disturbing to watch, you know?

Definitely. So, the fact that it's It's handled in such a monster kid fashion and such a light hand to it. It makes it all just flow and be very palatable. You know, you're not eating, you know, a heavy meal. You're just kind of having a light dessert version of the story.

Those light greens that Virginia was enjoying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right, right. It looked like scrub brush, right? It looked like black sludge.

Oh, oh, right, right. Whatever the hell she was actually eating, I don't know. I have no idea. Just randomly, just talking about that scene, one of my, besides movies where nothing happens, my favorite, just my favorite thing in movies in general are dinner table sequences, you know? And people, like, because I think it's just, like, most people know real psychological warfare in their day-to-day life as happening at the dinner table, you know?

Specifically with your family. Yes. Yes. And when you go over to somebody's house and you sit at their dinner table with them and you see the weird power dynamics going on behind the scenes and you're going like, oh, man. There's what's happening here, and then there's what's really happening here.

I always find that fascinating. I always find it so... It's like when I go to somebody's house and I'm at their dinner table, it's just like Stranger in a Strange Land. Movies like this, I love these movies. I love movies where there's a weird scene around a dinner table, and...

And this movie has a great, it has such a great dinner table sequence of a mixture of what's. Normal for a family can. Look insane to people who, from the outside, you know? So I love that. I love this.

We're all over the map on this thing. We just skipped. That's what I was thinking. I mean, we don't necessarily have to go beat by beat, but there are a lot of bigger things along the way that we definitely need to hit so yeah we can just kind of do whatever yeah we can ping pong we can do we again if we're if we're going to do the dinner table scene like we can talk about how ahead of the curve this movie is yeah Like, because we're referencing, you know, what will then become a standard in these type of movies. And, like, this is still many years before Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which is sort of your go-to of, like, the most horrifying dinner table scene ever.

You know, it's like, this is... Years before that. So you're assuming that, you know, you've got people involved in that movie watching this movie beforehand in some, you know, theater somewhere seeing some scratched up print of this going, oh, you know, whether or not it was specifically meant to, but it planted that seed. I'm assuming that it's just like, well, yeah, we can do a version of that. And ours will be even scarier, which is a little more disturbing in that one, perhaps, but.

But just in general, like the concept of what that, cause that's usually your go-to for people that are like, oh, those crazy backwoods families and they're probably cannibals. And like, this was well before Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the Hills Have Eyes, Wrong Turn. Like it just becomes a running theme of like, the scary people that are out in the middle of nowhere. And like, you, you don't have no idea what's going on in that weird house. Like that's, that's become a staple of horror now.

And like, this was well before that, like, you know, it's like specifically that dinner table scene, but also just the crazy family dynamic that again, you'll see somebody like Rob Zombie kind of stealing from in that first movie of like, It's a family in quotes that like come together and do a lot of weird stuff in a house. And like, how is that any different? So it's, I don't know. It is interesting how much it does something that then becomes part of horror culture, but it does it so far ahead of everybody else. Yeah.

And, and like, as yeah, the chainsaw, you can definitely, I mean, it's like a, almost a straight line, uh, evolution chart of spider baby to chainsaw to house of a thousand corpses, you know, it's like, it's, I mean, it's just like almost like, I mean, good grief, you know, it's just reinterpreted per the era that it's, that it's going through, you know, and, and, and with three different kinds of tones, I think, Rob Zombie's movie is trying to hit more of a spider baby tone. But it's very purposefully doing it too. But it's very heavy handed. I don't know if it was purposely trying to do it in Chainsaw versus this is not even doing it as like, again, it's almost as a lark. Like it's a joke.

Yeah. Sort of. But at the same time, I've seen like, I've seen it referenced and this may just be horror geeks that want to sit around and overthink things now. But I definitely see it referenced because you are coming out of out of that TV era where you're like, it's not just Leave it to Beaver, but it's your Ozzie and Harriet's and like, it's the family gathered around the table and they're the perfect American family. So now we like cut to this, which is like, maybe they're doing it for fun, but at the same time, here's your society decaying in front of you.

Here's the horrible bastardized version of the nuclear family that we have here. You know, it's like, well, this is like, almost commenting on the Ozzie and Harriet-ness of, you know, your normal family sitcom, sit around the dinner table kind of a thing. Well, definitely. Well, this is kind of like, this one's kind of like making fun of like, because of the inbreeding and stuff like that, they're kind of like making fun of like the upper class, how the upper class kind of is this hermetically sealed thing world of deviance you know and then Chainsaw kind of takes it on the other side it's kind of like poor people and rich people kind of like being the same you know and so it's kind of like how these hermetically sealed cultures just kind of start becoming copies of copies and they start falling apart and coming apart on the seams and going insane and so like isolated you know stagnant communities you know And then like in Chainsaw, it's like these folks have become stagnated due to lack of economic opportunity and just kind of like being isolated from all things.

And so they're kind of like. The farmer, you know, blue collar, you know, heartland of America being cut off and then, you know, going insane, you know? And so you're kind of saying like, you know, the backbone is insane. The, the, and spider baby is saying like, you know, the people that should know better, you know, like the, the elite, the elite are. Insane, you know?

And, uh, so yeah, I mean, it is, this is basically. You know, talking about, you know, uh, family falling apart, things, things that should be, you know, things that we, we, put our trust into, like, oh, they, you know, the Joneses, you know, and, you know, the Joneses are insane, you know, and they've got a man baby that's. You know. Well, he's regressing. What do you want?

He's regressing. He's regressing. Yeah, yeah. The other thing with these characters in particular, too, is, like, we certainly, you know, throughout film history, you get a lot of villains, and, like, in the earlier days, there's definitely ones that are very, you know, black hat, white hat. This is the bad guy.

Let's make it very obvious. This is the bad guy. You start to see that change in the, those mid years there where we get a lot of crazy dramas and you start to see like, maybe you start to identify with the villains a little bit, but it's rare that you get like, this is like, again, still seemingly. Cause now you get to like antiheroes are the norm. Like it's rare.

If you get to a movie, that's about a regular clean cut kind of a person that's your lead. Like now, You just, everything is like, how flawed can we make our main character? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is pretty early on for that kind of thing. And yet these are completely sympathetic characters. villains like they should be the villains of the movie right they're kind of not like as you get into it you're like well i'm not rooting for these rich weirdos that show up and like want to take everything away from them right so i'm left with you know which of these two groups do i want to root for well i want to root for our kids because they're awesome like even though they're doing horrible things like they are from scene one murdering people and then everything they do along the way should make them villains of the story but by the end you still at least sympathize with them if not completely side with them and be like no i want them to be okay like you care about these characters which again for something that's as funny as this is And as villainous as they are, like, you shouldn't, really.

But you do. Like, you care about these kids. And you want them. You want the best for them. And in the end, maybe we get the best for them.

You know, you have, you know, Lon Chaney in that scene, like, kind of breaking it down. And, like, this is what I need to do. Like, this is what's best for everyone involved. That's why this movie is so much better than it has any right to be. Exactly.

You know? And probably why it has the staying power it does, that kind of moral ambiguity of everything is so good in this. Because, yes, you are, yes, the family, you're going like, well, yeah, they're murderous and crazy and everything, but it's really not their fault. They have, like, a genetic disorder. In general, you can say just the way they were raised has also raised them to be abnormal.

But then on top of that, they literally genetically have a problem going on too. Exactly. Two strikes already. Exactly. But they're very loving towards each other.

I mean, they're sibling bickery, but those sisters stick together, man. They do. As much as the older one wants to mess with... And you see it's very calculated. Beverly's performance is really interesting because hers is very calculated.

And you see her... manipulating the sister when she needs to and you see her assessing what's going on where we don't ever get that from virginia like she is she is like it's animal instinct it's like she does right she is almost still kind of a child because she does what makes her happy and like playing with sid makes her happy so she's like yay let's go run around and play right murdering you know people it was like playing playing her game of like the spiders caught a bug like that's what makes her happy and like she does it without even thinking about it it's just what she does versus you see like the way that the older sister is sort of assessing what's going on and like what do i need to do to make sure you know i come out okay in this scenario and like some something as simple as I don't get in trouble.

Like, Oh, look what Virginia did. So that's a very sibling thing too, is like narc on your sister. But like, it's also just very, the thing that, the scene that I think is really impressive, and I didn't even get a chance to ask her this, but it's so funny because it so perfectly encapsulates how she operates, is her, after most of the murders have happened, like, the puzzle at the end. Did you watch her putting the puzzle together as they're sitting in the living room or wherever they are? Oh, and she's cutting the pieces to make it.

Fit, right? She just rips off pieces of the puzzle piece that doesn't fit and jams it in there. And like, that's her as a character. I was like, that is so amazing because it's just her. How do I deal with this problem?

I take care of it. Like, it's just her like assessing the situation. I don't like what I've been handed here. I'm going to fix it. Like, so that as a character is just like amazing.

So I was like, I wonder how much thought was put into that. Was that in the script? Like, I do want to want to go back and be like, where did that part come from? Cause that's one of the few things I noticed that it was like, this is so specific. Right.

Like if it just accidentally ended up there and she thought it would be funny to tear a piece off is, is amazing because it also perfectly fits the character that she is. Yeah. Yeah. No, I thought that was pretty cool. And, you know, I kind of interpreted it as like, you know, what a child would, you know, how they would interpret fixing a problem, you know, and everything.

Or like how, you know, you wish you could when you're frustrated with a puzzle, you know, you wish you could just like, you know, reform the pieces to make them fit. But, you know, it's like, well, it's just like a really, it's just a cool detail. It's a really cool detail that does show character. Or just kids that are spoiled. Of like, no, I don't want this to be wrong.

I want it to be the way I want it. And then her fixing it in her mind. Again, these are kids who have had little... supervision you know it's like he's trying his best but you got one guy trying to take care of them they're special right right they have special needs and like he's doing his best but like they've had little supervision so these are kind of spoiled because even when they do something horrible like murder people the most he does is like girls now what did i tell you like yeah yeah yeah he does what he can but they've they've been left to run wild and like, so they are kind of spoiled in their own weird way of like, I get to do what I want. I get to have fun in the way I want. Like, so yeah, it's, it's, it is a little bit of that too, that like, they don't have a lot of rules telling them not to do this thing or that.

So they kind of do whatever they want. Yeah. It was kind of like a comment on, you know, you know, high society, you know, they, they have their own moral code, you know, they, they, They, you. Know, there's not consequences. I think it's kind of, you know, maybe a, you know, I like it.

I like it. It's kind of a class. This thing is kind of a class commentary, you know. Or we're also coming into that teenager era. Yeah.

Where teenagers are starting to take over America and having a voice and are being marketed to now. So it can also be kind of that, like, These kids today, look, they don't have nobody's, you know, putting down the nobody's. Laying down the wall. Nobody's like setting up the rules. So it's like these kids have no consequences.

And now look at them running wild. So it can also be interpreted that way. I don't know. That's really what he meant. But but it's definitely like something that gets added into the situation as we get, you know, where it is in the timeline, too.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's really cool because it's like, what this movie has is like, you know, you've got like, okay, like the crazy family that loves each other, you know, so you do sort of, you're pretty much on their side, you know, because the, then you've got like the evil, you know, ice queen woman who wants their property and her lawyer, which, you know, you're just going like, well, that's like, Normal society, but that's cold and calculating and there's no heart. They're very numbers, efficiency-driven. Just doing business.

Doing business, right? Taking care of business. Right, right. And so, had it been just those two sides, it would have been very. Very, you know, it wouldn't have been as good.

What makes it cool is they have just like the nice, amiable guy and the nice, amiable girl who are just like, yeah, this is, you know, the live and live, you know, hey, this is fine. You know what? You know, go with the flow. You know, and that is, that makes it so, that makes it so. Much better for me, you know, where you have, yeah, like, like you have like a representation of like just somebody you might know.

So you, it makes you, it kind of gives you an in into the story, you know? He's the fun uncle. Exactly. He's not there to calm down on you with all this dumb rules and money and all that. He just wants to hang out, you know?

Yeah. He's not judgmental on anybody. And, you know, he wants to date the blonde and they want to go out and, you know, but they all have. Very understandable urges and motivation. They're not trying to dispossess anybody or they're not trying to play spider.

You know, they're just they're just they've got very normal drives and you go like, OK, all right. So these are these are these are a good entry point. And so what what what drives me crazy about like the Rob Zombie. Movie is like there's nobody you were like. connect with you know everybody's. Trashy like he wants everyone to live in the trailer park and be trashy right so you have no entry point you have no norm for anybody else unless yeah the trailer park person yeah there are plenty yeah sure but it's not it's not balancing out your story.

Either Right, right. Yeah, yeah. It's unbalanced. So, you know, you have like in Thousand Corpses, you have like the super nerds, you know, and then you have like. Fish boy!

Yeah, and then they're so like, you know, and then like all the female characters, they're just screaming the whole time, you know. And so, but you don't get to know them as like people. They're like cartoons, you know. And so this one here, you know, it's not like, you know, the amiable people are like, you know, realistic. I mean, but in the universe of the movie, this is what a normal dude is, you know?

And, but it's also just so, it adds. So much humor that no matter what is thrown at that guy, the, the nice guy, he. Just goes with it. He's just like, it's just like, he's not saying this is weird. You know, you've got the ice queen that can like, Oh, I can't believe, you know, they live like this.

And he's just like, well, what are you talking about? This is like, I mean, my favorite part, because again, the girls can kind of cover up. If they don't talk, you might not know they're crazy. Right. But Sid is on presentation like weird.

So like he sees him crawl out of the dumbwaiter looking like Sid does. And he's just like, he's so amused by it. He's like, he's like a big kid and he's like super excited to see him. And like he wants to like. what do you want to do now? Like, he's just like, it's so fun that like, he just loves the idea of this big kid, you know, being able to go have fun.

And like, that's sort of, he's like one graduated step up from that. It's like, and he has a job, but otherwise he's kind of the same as Sid. Like he's just like, yeah. Yeah. It's like a, it's like, for me, it's, that's like, you know, I understand like, you know, dark brooding psychosis and like, you know, acting, uh, selfishly for my own gain, you know, but, uh, but, uh, I like the, uh, almost like he's, he's almost freakishly nice.

You know, he's kind of like a freak in his own way. It's like, I wish I could It's kind of like, man, to go one day with that kind of attitude would be like. Happy. And disconnected from all your trauma. Yeah, happy and disconnected and not upset about anything or not letting anything upset you.

It's just going like, you know, I think I'm learning a lot about life from Spider-Baby. Just going like, these are different examples of how you can handle life and everything. And this guy is just like, You know, just like, yeah, yeah, well, all right, let's go do that. I'm going like, yeah, man, he is completely unburdened by psychosis and everything. So I'm going like.

I mean, the more, yeah, talking about it now, like, I do see, like, he really is almost so weird in his own right that he is closer to our family than anybody else, like, that we come in contact with in this movie. That's it. Like, everybody else is so... you know, in the regular world, like even, even the way Bruno like takes things on, like he's just burdened by responsibility. Like he just wants to take care of these kids and do what's best with them. But like, he's still like a grownup as much as they have in this life of theirs versus uncle Peter is just kind of like a grownup child himself.

So like he is almost. As freaky as our three because like, He's. So happy about everything and so seemingly unburdened by regular life that he is almost weird. You can see he comes from that family. It's just, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it is weird. It is weird. And I go like, yeah. But what's also interesting is if you see the. Interviews with the actor who played him, he seems like he was that guy.

He's a pretty weird guy. Yeah. But he's very– in the panel discussion, he was a little old, so he was like– but you could tell that's kind of the way he is, and then he would just go off on– stories that had no ending and everything. Crazy tangents. Yeah, crazy tangents.

He was crazy, but very lovable. Like, even then, he was just like, look at this guy. He's awesome. Yeah, yeah. You would want to buy a car from him.

I mean, he was just like so, yeah, I don't know. You would trust him at a car lot. You know, kind of like the game show host personality, and you just go like, you know, wow, you know. It's just, it was, yeah, just the the contrast of how like the ice queen handles the situation versus how he says, and the, and the secretaries, they're just like, you know, uh, very, so it just adds another layer to the, how they present the story that just makes it so much more interesting than it should be. Yeah.

Then it has any right to be once again. Then it has any right to be. You're going like, why is this getting it? You're watching this movie going like, why is this getting its hooks in me so much, you know? And pulling you along.

You know, we said the first scene where the black character actor comes out and, you know, kind of does an outdated, you know. Caricature you know uh. He stood by that though like he was i remember talking about him years ago when i first like he was upset that the changes that happened in this country happened because he's like that's that's my job man like this is what i do so like yeah the shifting in the way the the country looked at you know these portrayals of characters right all of his obviously weird caricatures of black characters that like right he just was like, this is what I do. This is my job. Yeah.

Things change. I don't have a job anymore. Like again, he was very real world. About it all. And he was just like, I'm just acting scared.

What's wrong with that? Yeah, absolutely. That was the quote they had for him. I was like, yeah. And I don't feel like this version, I think some others in the past are even more atrocious, but like this one, he's just kind of, you know, he's scared.

Like it's fine. Like I expected this to actually be a little more dated than, I feel like this was sort of the very end of this run of seeing this kind of performance in a movie. Absolutely. He's just, you know, he's scared. With good reason, because he gets murdered.

Yeah, in the same scene. Absolutely. Yeah, no, it's definitely motivated. And it's really not that bad when you really look at it, but it does set you back for a second and go like, oh yeah, that's something you don't see anymore. And also, you know, I don't even know if my.

Kids would interpret it the way I interpret it, you know, because. That's... Because it's so far back, yeah. It's so far back that, you know, I mean, they might just see it and just not even think about, you know... racial implementations or something like that. And, and also the, you know, the fact that he was okay doing it.

So then, you know, and. Everybody else seemed to really like him. Like the, yeah. Yeah. Sid's quote was like, man, Tam was so cool.

And like, I think they just liked working with him and like, he'd been working since the dawn of cinema. So like, they had probably really cool stories about working on stuff back then. And like, so yeah, the fact that he didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing and, he came at it with a good attitude and like everybody liked working with him. So I don't know. Again, you can take it different ways, but yeah, I think this was the best version of this, you know, being thrown.

Into this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

I mean, considering that, you know, some things you watch now, you know, are so much more racist than, but, but, but you, when you watch Jack Hill, he wasn't doing it for like racial reasons. purposes it's really you know he got an actor to do this and it's kind of setting the tone that this is a comedy you know and that you know it's it's comedy mixed with some really freaky horror stuff you know and. Probably was just excited to work with him like he was a successful actor like he worked in like all the charlie chan movies like yeah he was actually like really well known back in his day you know maybe for the wrong reasons but like still i think Jack at the time was probably just like, look who we got.

Absolutely. Just excited to work with a successful actor. Absolutely. To get Chaney and anybody recognizable for your 12-day, $ 50, 000 movie, it's a huge boon for the movie. But that scene where he dies is pretty.

Fantastic. And even more fun to find out that the ear that they find is an actual prosthetic ear and came from a guy on the crew. The guy on the crew offered that up for them to use. He lost his in Korea. And I think they painted it to match and used it for those purposes.

But yeah, that was an actual prosthetic. ear off of a guy on. The crew dude that's a great that i did not hear that story this is the low. Budget kind of movie we're talking about absolutely here use my ear yeah i'm i'm can't hear with this anyway go ahead do what you need to do in the scene it's fine. Yeah yeah it shows you just enough it shows the the reaction and the sounds and the and the the ear coming off and everything it just gives you enough to go like what a horrible way to die you know and uh Yeah, it's great. It's great.

Well, and it just sets into motion, like, who this character is, too. Yeah. Like, seeing Virginia do her thing, like, that is the rest of the movie. Like, she is Spider-Baby. Like, she is what you're in for the rest of this movie.

And then if you're the right kind of person, you're like, oh, this is awesome. Like, this is the best intro to a character ever because that's how she is the rest of the movie. This wasn't her putting on an act. this is who she is. And like, it's, it's just so much fun dealing with her as a, as a character. So.

And just that, that wide shot, the fact that they shot her from kind of his point of view, you know, like seeing her come into the, she screams and comes into the room, you know, and you just see her sneaking up to the camera. You just got to give it up to Jack Hill being, you know, just smart enough to know how to, shoot that shot, you know, and just to make it so freaky, you know? It's engrossing as the viewer, but also like points to him and the, I think the director of photography is the one that came up with the plan because number one, they're not supposed to be in that house. It was a dilapidated old house that they at first were just going to shoot the outside shots. Like all the other inside stuff is like in the On the soundstage.

But the stuff on the porch, they had to get on the porch and that reverse shot of him in the window, they wanted to get. So they are in there. And then you realize, based on the stories from Sid, there's no power. So they had to set up six reflectors to bounce sunlight from the outside in and around the corner and back towards him so that they had enough light to get that shot of him in the window. Like that's crazy.

Again, like I always say this of like the low budget movies are the most creative movies. Like you, you get that kind of impressive thing and probably what led to piecing that shot together is because they had to get it from that window. And like, so like, that kind of a reaction you're not going to get by somebody who's been given, here's $ 30 million, go make your movie and, you know, use whatever technical advantages you need to versus like, I have no money and I want to get this shot somehow. How do we do this? And like, they did it.

Like he found a way and like bounced light in there to get that shot. Like, that's amazing. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, now, you know, if you have no money, you just end up green screening the whole darn thing, you know?

And so it doesn't have the same. Also looks worse. Like, I don't know. I have such, yeah, there's so many movies I've seen lately. And some of them are actually from, I've noticed like bigger name directors that maybe aren't huge, but like back in the day did really cool movies that are well known.

And then now just don't get the budgets they used to. So they try to come up with these ideas. And I've seen two or three like recognizable directors that, do entirely in front of a green screen movies yeah they just don't look good like i know i want to like yay independent film like let's make something but like there's just something about that that like yeah it's hard to do period but especially with a limited budget version of it like it just does not look good and i'm like i'd rather you just go out and shoot something in a field somewhere you know like Find a way to write something that works better in a real location than in front of a green screen. Yeah, absolutely. It just looks so bad most of the time.

Yeah, yeah. It doesn't feel real. It legitimately feels like you're standing in front of a green screen. Exactly. Exactly.

It takes you completely out of the movie. It does. So, yeah, this was like a, yeah, I mean, this is a textbook, great example of like how to make. Something with no money, and just, you know, it. Just has A, imagination, and B, it just has, it's a pretty smart script despite it being silly.

And D is, it's, uh, it, I was just going like, this is so well. Directed and acted and put together, you know, uh, for something. That way better than it has the right to be for. Absolutely. You wouldn't know. everybody outside of Beverly was super inexperienced.

Like Jack specific is like, Hey, I don't know if you noticed, but I didn't know what I was doing as a director. And like, this is Sid's first real movie. And like this, uh, Virginia, like she's never been in anything. Like she's lying about the fact that she's making a movie. She didn't tell her mom when she was leaving the house that she was going to make a movie.

Yeah. She said she was going to school before. Yeah. Yeah. She said she was going to school.

She was 17, you know, or something. So she's like, I'm going to school and sneaking out and hanging out with these showbiz people. Yeah, no, it's so. Yeah, so it's a very instinctual movie, you know? The director was just operating off instinct.

And so were the actors. And so you kind of feel that, you know? You kind of feel like this is not overthought. It's really a guy... His first, you know, writing, directing, going at it, you know, with a little bit of money.

And his instincts were not being second-guessed or, you know, overthought. And he just said, hey, let's just do it this way. You know, this is the way we can do it. And he just shot it the way he, you know, I mean, I guess, yeah, he went through USC and, you know, had training on it. But, you know, so he had enough technical skills.

Uh, education to be able to pull it together, but it doesn't, it doesn't come off. As, uh, over. Yeah. He, he was just not, he, he hadn't done enough to have any kind of weight to it. You know, and he just, and also, is it cocky about it?

Because he's right. He was like hiding that, like, cause he's telling it to Sid decades later. He's just like, I don't know if you guys noticed, but I didn't know what I was doing. And they were like, no, we, we all thought you do what you were talking about. And like, we just, we showed up for work and we did what you said.

And like, you know, we had faith in you as our director. And like, so he was covering it up, but like he himself didn't feel like he, he didn't have, you know, uh, this weird cocky attitude that is like, I know how to make a film. Like he was winging it and like it, it works. Like he just, it, everything feels really genuine because of that. Like all the performances and even just the story that he's putting together is just, it's not overthought.

It's in the moment and like it works. Right. Right. And I guess he knew that this was so low budget. He, he, he didn't have a lot of pressure on him.

You know, it was like, It wasn't like, yeah, it's like this real estate money. They had like real estate guys giving him like $ 50, 000 and it was like an old buddy of his. And, and like, so, you know, it wasn't like a, you know, it wasn't like making Spartacus, you know, where this has got to go out and make, you know, you know, $ 80 million or we lose money, you know? So it was kind of like he had you, there is a playfulness to it, you know, uh, that, professional playfulness. There's a technical competence because he had a great DP and the acting is elevated and very believable.

So it's not like a crappy horror movie that. You would see nowadays where it's like the acting's not good so there's no human connection to anything because everybody sounds like you know uh you know drama school rejects you know uh so everybody's like there's a certain level of professionalism to everything so it it feels like you're watching a movie but there's also such a low budget affair to it that there's a lightness to it and so the tone is perfect for the budget and the for the story and it's really kind of a hat trick it's kind of a miracle. The movie's kind of a miracle. Yeah. Well, and it's good because that's the thing.

I've said even on recent episodes, I was like, I'm so forgiving on older movies. Yeah. Because I know... technically they're dealing with stuff that's different than now but like there's also just a charm to them in that period so it like i could very easily like just like it for the a cheesy old movie but this is above and beyond that like it does that and it is charming for those reasons But then on top of that, there's like these other things going on, some of which were purposefully put in by, you know, the director and writer. And then the other stuff just sort of happened in the moment with these amazing actors. And like, there's just stuff that came together that makes this like greater than the sum of its parts, which were super low budget parts.

And like, it somehow became bigger than that, especially as time's gone on. And we all just sort of like, spend way more time focusing on it than we probably were ever meant to. Yeah. Yeah. We, we gotta, we gotta mention like what one thing that happens in this movie that you can't believe you're seeing is the Chaney, uh, monologue, uh, about what he's got to do with the family and, uh, him coming to grips with, you know, uh, his responsibilities and, uh, That powerful performance, which, you know, he had been so discarded.

It's almost like the, what do you call it, the Bella thing, you know, all my life, you know, despised. You know. Most of those guys fell into that. Like, Karloff was the one that, like, had a, he wasn't, like, he didn't, deal with near as much. He came into it more as just a normal actor and then got successful and then just kind of continued acting, but he didn't have the crazy drama in his personal life.

Whereas Bella and Lon Chaney Jr. like just had so much they were fighting against, you know, and, and never really had the career, uh, they came back around and like delivered them to a higher status in Hollywood. Like they went out making cheap movies, you know, this one and, you know, Bella, make it out. Ed Wood movies, you know, it's just like, they're just glad to be working at that point. And like, they're dealing with their demons, whether it's in a bottle or a vial, like, you know, these guys are fighting a lot and yet like, they still have these great performances in them. And they just weren't really taken seriously by the industry from, you know, the thing that made them the most famous was the backhanded compliment that came with the, oh, by the way, you're never going to work again in any real capacity because this thing that you're famous for has undercut your entire career.

Right, right. Yay! Like, have fun! Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so they were the toast at one point or marketable at one point.

And so now they're doing like the bottom of the barrel kind of movies, but even the, you see these moments, these sparks, you know, where you see like the talent that they have, you know, and, uh, despite through all the demons and the struggles and the hard times that, that sometimes they just kept, they still have that lightning in the bottle, you know, and it just feels so good when you see it come out, you know, like, uh, Chaney in the Wolfman is so good and so tortured and, and you really see a journey with that character. You know, I went back and watched all the mummy movies, uh, that he was in and I felt so bad for him because sometimes, and some of those, depending on the one, he had a, like a rubber mask over his face.

So it, why did you have even have him in that book other than just put his name on that. Poster yeah they definitely wanted the name recognition. But exactly but you don't you don't even get to see him emote you know like in in in some of them you know it's like a jack pierce kind of thing where you know it's it's glued to his face so you can sort of see some emotion but that was there in his real drinking days you know so the on the commentary of the mummy movies they say like when he's carrying those women up the stairs, I mean, they were terrified that he would just fall over because he was barely walking drunk. It's a good thing he had to drag his leg. Most of the time it kept him steady.

He wasn't stumbling as much. Exactly, exactly. So for him to be so plagued by those demons and then for him to get this little thing it's kind of like, and they said in the commentary that, you know, they said like, this is Lon Chaney. He's not going to do it for that amount. And then they were going to give it to John Carradine.

And then they said like, well, I don't want John Carradine to get it. So he said, yeah, you know, but. John Carradine, also an amazing actor who just did endless, endless, terrible movies. Because that's what he was offered and like you just again working actors man you just gotta keep working like. You just keep working and so i've seen a hundred john carradine where you know he just says the dialogue and he made the check and uh you know blah blah blah so you don't really expect them to swing for the fences in these paycheck movies that they got.

You know, they're just showing up. You know, it's like a Lance Hendrickson movie. You know, you just go like, he's there, it's cool. Sometimes he's amazing and other times he's there. He's doing what he needs to do.

He's a professional, you know. He showed up, he played the character. But to see in this movie Lon Chaney get a moment to really shine... you know, it's just, it's such a special thing, you know, just. It shows like he was a good actor and that was always in there. Like no matter what he went through, it was still the core of him is still this talented actor and you give him a chance.

You give him even a silly low budget movie. Like you give him a chance to shine and like, there it is. Like it's still there. He still got it, man. He still got it.

So, so yeah, that, that was fantastic, you know? And, uh, And Virginia, yeah, just her natural instincts in the scene are so great. You know, the way she plays with the uncle about the spider, playing spider with her. You know, definitely Lolita-type subtext-type stuff. But, you know, A, the guy caught in the chair, you know, he's handling it.

As best as you could in that scenario. Like a champ, man. You go like, man, I really like this guy, you know? But her performance is just so instinctually interesting, you know? Yeah, so everybody...

That's what I'm saying. The acting is just so much better than what you would expect from something like this, you know? I guess, again, because we just... Talking about both of those people, that is eventually where I wanted to get to, was the fact that neither of them got to see this movie become what it was. That, like, it was shortly after this that Lon Chaney Jr.

Died. So, like, I don't even know that it was released by the time he was gone. So, like, his was a really quick turnaround. But then with her, like, she was 36. When she died.

Oh, wow. Went on to she did some episodes of like uh dragnet and like she's she's got a couple other acting credits but like she she just didn't become like the biggest thing in the world and never really had a chance to even come back around to see the cult following and then you know even like you know beverly was saying it's a shame she can't you know go to the conventions and like see these like dorky kids still showing up wearing spider baby shirts you know it's like yeah yeah still beloved this many years later and that like she is still like people are still amazed by her performance this many years later and like we just she didn't get a chance to see that so it's it's sad that you know of our you know core family there it's like we've got we've got half of them that just never got to see how beloved this movie became.

Yeah absolutely yeah she's uh, really good in it. And, you know, it's just kind of like the proto creepy girl, you know, that, uh, again, ahead of the curve of like, of like the Wednesdays and, you know, the kind of, it's kind of a type now, but it's, yeah. Again, where the movie is ahead of it is like, they, they discovered, yeah, there's a total market for creepy girls. Well, I mean, you don't get Beetlejuice without this. You know, you don't get a movie centering around a creepy girl without this performance.

You know, it's like we needed this to sort of set everything in motion that, you know, our creepy girl type becomes a type for a reason. Yes, right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

And also I was just thinking, you know, like kind of like the. Whole early 90s grunge Babes in Toyland, Courtney Love look. you know, like grown women basically walking around in baby dresses, you know, that was popular. You know what I mean? I just sort of see that kind of echoing spider baby as well. You know, I don't know.

Rocking the look. Yeah. Rocking the look. That's it. That's another one of those that, that was kind of interesting.

And you definitely hear Jack reference it quite a few times in the special features stuff on the movie. The fact that like for him, the thing that was so weird was how much young girls were attached to this movie. Oh, yeah. I guess maybe because it's got, you know, of our leads, most of them are young girls. You know, we've got two main characters that are around that same age as the girls that are just getting into horror movies, I guess.

Yeah. But his take on it, and I think this is interesting, is this movie is about unconditional love. These kids that no matter how much you screw up, no matter what you do, your family loves you. It is, I guess, it just makes you feel okay. It's a security thing that, I guess, you're a dumb teenager, you feel like you screw stuff up all the time.

So it's like knowing that no matter what you do, these people still love you even if you just murdered a guy in the front window you know it's like it's that level of taking it you know all the way up to crazy and yet they still love her so like and they're still there to support her as the rest of the movie. Goes on I think that's the I think that's why this movie is so palatable or like why you like that family so much even though they're crazy is that that the love they have for each other that they all like each other what I don't like about the Rob Zombie movies is they're going like, oh yeah, the Fireflies, they all supposed to love each other, but they're nothing but assholes towards each other.

That's my issue with that second one. Like it all just kind of works mostly as like a knockoff of this movie and Chainsaw in that first movie. But the second one, Devil's Rejects, they're all just hanging out together and like all they do is bicker. Like it's just them arguing the whole movie. And I'm like, this isn't really fun anymore.

Like at least it's kind of fun in the first one, but like, yeah. all they do is argue that second movie. So yeah, I don't get that. Like they argue a little bit here, but it's the very sibling real world version. It's just like needling. At your sister because you know that you can, because that's kind of your job.

But when it comes down to it and you know, she's going to be in trouble. If this lady gets away, you're out in the field. With a pitchfork ready to take somebody out because they're going to threaten your sister's safety. And, like, so together, you know, they always come together and back each other when they need to. But anytime you can, like, mess with her, like, that's what you do.

That's how siblings work. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, so that seems real, you know. So you go, you feel this real love.

Like, the zombie movies, you. Go, like, why? These, I would have no contacted any of these people, you know, that's a new thing. They go, I have gone no contact with my parents, you know, uh, all over the internet, you know? Uh, and I go like, yeah, I mean the, the fireflies, I would just be like, man, this is like a toxic environment because there's.

No love here, you know? But the, you can see like how you would, uh, kind of like circle the wagons if you were in the, uh, yeah, the, the spider baby family, you know? Definitely. The other thing I was thinking, as they presented that thing with the young girls, the other thing that I thought was interesting, and maybe why girls are sort of drawn to this as they're getting into horror movies, is they're also in charge of the action. Absolutely.

Both of our female leads are doing what they want, essentially. They might be scolded by the quote-unquote grown-up afterwards, which, because they only have one, but... some of it's because they're not, you know, being watched, but at the same time, it's also just, you're getting this. And that may be more of like a fantasy, like fulfillment type of thing of like, these girls get to do whatever they want and they're following their primal instinct. Yeah. More or less of like they, they stalk their prey or capture their bugs.

And like, right. If they want to do that, that's what they do. And like, they don't worry about, you know, being scolded till after the fact. They don't worry about being caught because they don't care. Some of it's also they're crazy.

But I think it is something that girls could latch onto and be like, well, these girls aren't listening to what some guy says. Even the authority figure, they don't listen to him. They just don't want to get in trouble afterwards. But they do whatever they want to do. And like, that might be why it's so appealing to these like new audiences coming up, specifically young girls that are like getting into horror movies of like, look at these two strong female characters.

They're also crazy, but they're strong female characters. Absolutely. And yeah, you know, there's, there's something, you know, there's like, I guess the veneer of whatever this Lolita kink is, this movie kind of plays with, but also beyond that, Beyond that, you know, there is, like, they're not written as just, like, sex kittens. You know, at one point, it's like, you know, these are, like, grown women or, you know, they're, like, you know, young women that either kind of play in it infantile, but at the same time, what I give the movie credit for It's not like an Anne Margaret. Sex kitten role or anything like that.

And they're not here to be subservient to any male character. They really are, as you said, driving the action. You see their relationship with each other. They're not one note. And they have real pathos.

You know, they, they have these scenes where they have these fear of like, what's going to happen to our family and these, these changing times and how, how can we just all stay together? You know? I mean, so it's like, it's, it's deep. You know, it's got it's got meat to the bone. It's not just as what they say, the male gaze, you know, and everything, you know, is not is not just here to cater.

I mean, it might that might be maybe the rapper to the movie, but the meat of the movie is like you're actually going to get like a real character here. It's like you have that with the other two girls. And like, I kind of forgot about that. The fact that we get the extended scene of the older lady among the family. I mean, she's not old either, but like the grownup of the bunch, like parading around in her underwear for an extended amount of time.

And I kind of forgot that was even there. And I was like, oh, well again, they're making their drive-in money. Like again, this is just him going, and then we've got her in her underwear. And so like people will like that. And then even the secretary, like, eventually, like, when she's being attacked, is getting, you know, her clothes torn off.

So it's like, if you want that, it's still thrown in there to make your drive-in fans happy. But as far as the younger girls, and specifically, like, Jill in particular, like, the performance with her is amazing because it's there, and you definitely see the dynamic, but it's played, and this is why it's amazing that she has no professional, like, certainly no experience at that point in minimal training ever like school plays at that point but like because she's playing it so realistic that like she doesn't even know what she has Like, an older girl or a girl who's more mature and out in the world, like, very quickly by the time you're a teenager, knows what she has. And the way most girls are, will learn how to use it very quickly.

And, like, can manipulate men and can manipulate situations to her advantage if they feel like doing that. Again, not that that's something you should do or be expected to do. But. With her, the way she plays it is almost like she's discovering it for herself in those moments. It's so genuine that she's like, well, I sort of feel like this, but at the same time, I don't understand why or what to do with it or what it's for.

But I feel this way, and I've got this guy who's not... I'm calling you uncle, but technically everybody else in this household is like my family, so I don't have anybody to... to use this on. But now here's this guy that I've kept captive here. And I all of a sudden kind of want to make use of my feminine wiles because I can. And like, so it's a very minimal little moment of it, but it's also played innocently because she doesn't even know what she has to be able to use it to her advantage.

Like she doesn't even understand it. enough to be manipulating with it. Like she's just sort of discovering it in the moment herself as she's like, you know, also terrorizing him. So it's like, it's such an amazing scene because, because he's playing it so straight and trying to not get roped into this literally, I guess he is. And then on top of that, like she's just coming at it so naturally and some so unknowingly about what it is she has that like it, it, again, it could be way more awkward than it is. I feel like because of that, it doesn't read as creepy to me from like the watching the film standpoint of like, it doesn't feel that way because it's played so innocently that like she's not even using it.

Like whether or not Jack was using it for his own drive-in purposes, maybe, you know, that's certainly arguable, but I don't read it that way in the scene and definitely not the way that Jill is playing it. It's such an amazing performance. Absolutely agreed agreed it's like had jack hill been a different director a different kind of guy that could have been a much sleazier scene that you know probably would not have aged well and you go like yeah that's that weird movie that nobody talks about anymore because or only pervs talk about you know i mean there's there's definitely like a you know, just like a, there's a weird kind of kink to it or something like that. But it's also just kind of like, but you are going like, uh, her performance.

I just exactly how you describe it. It's more like a school girl crush, you know. And not like, uh, understand herself. Yeah. Yeah.

And not like a poison Ivy kind of thing, you know, not like a Drew Barrymore kind of. Thing, you know, it's a, so yeah, it's, it's, it's really well done. So you don't feel, you know, it's, it's, uh, You feel like, oh man, I'm watching. A good scene, not like I'm watching exploitation. I'm watching two real characters having this moment, not just...

And the lady, I would even say the lady prancing around in her underwear, yeah, that's driving stuff. But also, that's even character motivating. You know, I mean, that's like, like, she's such a. They're the rich weirdos. Like, and she feels like it in that moment.

Like. Yeah. Because that's the part when, again, I nitpick about real world stuff in every episode. So, like, I'm sitting there going, how many weird negligees did you bring with you on... I mean, you didn't have a lot of bags.

So most of what you packed are these. And you're there to be around for... family members you don't know, and children. I'm just like, didn't she find them? What is going on? Did she bring those?

I got the feeling when I watched it that she had found them in a drawer or. Something like that. I mean, maybe they were. Either way, it's interesting. But I will say, also as far as being exploitation, the actress, Carol, was into that.

Hearing Jack talk about it, he's like, he and she went to Frederick's of Hollywood in the the legit Hollywood version of Fredericks of Hollywood and picked out her quote unquote wardrobe, he said. And she was like super excited to do it because she wanted to go there and shop and look at those. Like, so she wasn't being exploited. She was totally into the idea and, and, you know, being the grownup of the movie, I guess it made it okay if she wanted to get in her underwear. So like that, that was kind of fun.

I thought that like, she was totally into that idea. It was like, hell yeah, let's go pick out some lingerie. Yeah. Yeah. So that made me feel better about that part of it too.

Cause I was like, at that point I was like, well, yeah, this is definitely moving into the, you know, exploitation territory. But yeah, I didn't, I didn't feel as bad once I found out that she was totally into the idea. Yeah, I know. No, she, she still had it. So, I mean, she was like, probably like, you know, dude, I'm still hot.

I'm still hot, you know? Um, you know, and so, uh yeah yeah no she uh that was pretty cool but yeah it's a cool character you know the ice queen who's got like you know the secret you know uh side to her you know it's like it's like it's like uh yeah that's kind of cool it was kind of cool and then and. Then that like presentation wise when you're at the dinner table this is how you react and how you respond to things But then when you're behind closed doors, you're also a freak. So don't be so judgy because you're also a weirdo. That's right.

Right. Yeah. You like to entertain those, you know, primal instincts, you know. You're not so different. Again, not so far removed from the primal people that live in the basement of this building.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And which is also charming that they just have no money for the. you know, freaks, uh, in the, in the pit. So it looks like they have carpet stapled to their faces. You know, it's just, it's just random people that they were like, here, come climb in this hole for me.

I need to, I need a favor today. Yeah. Yeah. It was just like, here's some, we'll put some, I don't know, a fake beard on you. I think the one was on the crew that he was just like, Hey, we need somebody else in the hole.

Get down there. I feel like he was talking about just wrangling people to be in the, in the shots when they needed people in the basement. So yeah. Yeah. I think it was just hilarious.

I mean, just there, the whole thing is, is great. You know, this last time when I was like, uh, watching it, the other thing I started thinking about that's so ahead of its time, it's self-referential horror, right? Yes! Like, it is, like, you didn't see that this early on. No!

But it's, like, it's talking about being a fan of classic horror movies in a horror movie. And, like, so you're, and, like, the joke upon joke of, like, you're talking about werewolves across the table from Lon Chaney Jr. Yeah. You give him the line. There's going to be a full moon tonight.

Yes! That is like geek territory right there. Oh my gosh. It's basically what all movies are nowadays. If you watch something like The Flash, it's basically like...

You know, it's like, it's almost feels like you're at a comic book convention when you watch a movie nowadays. It's just references, which again, this was so different for that time. But like, you can't have Scream without this moment right here. Like, no, you can't get to Tucker and Dale versus evil without this movie. Like this is laying the groundwork for all those self referential horror in on the horror joke kind of movie.

And like this one's playing it like for fun but also to the point like of all the squares sitting in the audience like you're just watching it and they're just talking about monsters but like if you're a geek you're like but that's Lon Chaney Jr. like you're getting an extra layer of geekiness right then and there that I'm like that just wasn't really happening until this moment almost like yeah And it was almost like a generational thing is what I was thinking. Like, you know, like there's always been horror, like going back to silent, but you get that first wave of like the universal era. So it's like your Todd Brownings and James Whale, like they were old school horror. They were weirdos because they were weirdos, you know, like they were into this because it's just what appealed to them.

And they, from the get go, like they were obsessed with that kind of, you know, horror material to some extent. And you see it come through in their directing, even when they're making less horror friendly. Sometimes it's just how they work. But you get I was thinking like you get the Jack Hill. He's like the first generation of kids that grew up on these classic monster movies like he would have been just the right age to have been watching those as a little kid.

So now he's I'm getting out of college and I want to start working on movies myself. So these are his references. Like he's the first generation of filmmaker, much like Corman, that's like coming at this, like equipped with the knowledge and all of those references that they grew up with. And like, this is that first wave of filmmaker that you're going to see doing that. Yeah.

And it's like that generation just before, then you get to the, like the seventies kids that are like a whole new batch of like film school kids that are doing a different version of references. There may be a more, fancy polished version of references. And then I was like, and then we've already referenced several times in this episode. The next generation that comes after that, that's the big directors are the ones that are obsessed with this as well. So you get Tarantino, you get Rob Zombie, that are definitely fans of these type of movies and influenced by these specific movies.

And both of these, I mean, both of them came on board to put together the restoration, put together the soundtrack. Like these guys were so into this movie because like it, it found that again, it's just like geeks referencing geeks. Like it just backtracks of like, Yeah. The horror obsessed film fan that makes a horror obsessed movie that then influences horror obsessed film fans two generations later. Like it's.

Yeah. It was so interesting looking back at this and like this is kind of that first moment or one of them anyway of them being like, no, this is the kind of movie I grew up with as a kid. And I want to work these references into my movie. But I'm doing it subtle enough that it doesn't stop the movie to make a reference. It works just fine if you're just grandma watching this movie with the kids.

But if you're the kid that was like, oh, no, I got that joke. Like, you know. Yeah. All of a sudden it adds an extra layer of storytelling going on here. That's like an extra real world geek level that kicks in that like you didn't get before this.

That's, that's very well, very well stated. Uh, the, uh, uh, yeah, the, and the fact that the normies in the movie are, are like horror movie fans. Too, you know? Yeah. Like, like in there, like the, again, the grandma that's sitting in the, in the audience is also grandma enough to bring her grandkid with her.

But like, so it's, it's sharing it with sort of normal people, but some of us still have that, you know, the primal instinct still in there that like, you're still a horror fan because you saw Bela Lugosi a million years ago, you know, it's like, it's, it, it seeps its way into like the mainstream culture. Yeah. This, this was that point of it just totally crossing over. Yeah. I mean, basically Jack Hill just like basically kind of was the, the Oracle of, that showed where movies are kind of going to go.

He's from, I believe it was USC, but it was. Just maybe a class or two before the Lucases and all those other guys. Star Wars is basically his Flash Gordon love letter. And, you know, I mean, that's sort of like what... And Tarantino was, you know, just, like, making love letters to the movies that he grew up loving.

Yeah, Hong Kong movies and Black Splendidation that Jack Yule made. That's right. That's right. You know? And so, yeah, I mean, it's so cool to see, like, you know...

It's when you watch a movie and... You know, the director that was behind it is, you know, one of us, one of us, you know. And, you know, it can go so overboard, you know, where sometimes, you know, things feel like the movies that are coming out now feel like they're almost like fan fiction, you know, and they don't feel like. They have their. Yeah, they don't have their own voice.

They're not adding anything to it. They're just going like, you remember this, you remember this, you remember this. So it doesn't feel like, I don't know, you don't feel like you're making your own movie. It's just kind of like you're doing the Chris Farley interview. Of a movie.

But this is like, Hill's definitely got his own point of view coming from it because this is like, you know, this is like referencing those old universal horror movies, but it's very much the template of what the modern horror movie. Yeah. Yeah. You know, setting the standard for what would happen from that point on and didn't even realize it. Absolutely.

It's kind of like the, the, the in between movie, you know, it's kind of like the missing link, you know, between, uh, you know, cave man and, uh, and the modern man, you know, uh, it's, it's really neat, you know? Um, I don't know. It's, you said it best, but this movie is very much like, uh, uh, a movie made by fans for fans. Oh, like another, another group of people that I, I feel like are kind of like this are the, uh, radio silence guys who did, uh, the ready or not movie. And, uh, the.

First two reboot screams and right. The reboot scream, the, what'd you call it? The, uh, Abigail? Have you seen Abigail about the ballerina vampire girl? I think they're really good at it.

Exactly. But you watch those movies, you go like, these guys are fans. And they know what they've got, like that perfect tone of also funny, but They can just get the tone right of funny and scary, you know, and make reference back. Even if it's not a direct reference, you know what they're kind of doing, you know. They were the perfect person to hand off Scream.

To, you know. It's just like Wes got that joke and did it so perfectly in the first movie and sort of continued it on through the sequels. But like if anybody like because there could have gone wrong in so many ways. Oh, yeah. And some people don't love those movies anyway.

And that's fine. But like you can't argue like they got it. They got the joke of it. They got how to continue a story and still make it horror and still make it scary. So, yeah, it's like you see one generation sort of handing the baton to the other.

Whether willingly or not, you know, they may be gone at that point. Like that one was. And kind of, you know, the same here. It's like you've got this guy that's like watching directors that weren't even around anymore growing up. And like by the time he makes his movie, he's like, well, you know, I'm inspired by that, but I'm going to do my own thing too.

And like he, I think Jack in particular, has like such a different take on it, even though he's not doing anything. Again, like with all of his movies, he's taking... your basic, you know, a horror story and a blaxploitation stories and action movies. And like, he, he takes your standard situation, but he definitely puts his own brand on each and every one of them. So like he, he definitely wasn't like hacking from other people. Like he, he definitely came to it with his own take and his own perspective.

And like, you can kind of feel it in this movie. And again, it's, it's reason to go watch more of what he did as a director. I am so excited to go back. I know Tarantino's re-released Switchblade Sisters, which I've never seen. I'm just really interested in going back and seeing his movies.

I saw that his last movie was way back in 82, and he seemed real spry in his interviews. I was sad that I was wondering what he was doing for the last 40 years. Why he didn't work after There's something in 82 called Sorceress, which. Which I think I've seen. I looked at this list today and I was like, wait, it's one of those weird ones that I start to mix up with other movies around that time.

So I have to go back and double check. But I'm like, I think I remember watching that one and kind of liking it back in the day. Yeah, yeah. I think it looks like from IMDb has name taken off of it. So I'm like wondering if he just had such.

A terrible experience. He just goes like that. He just broke the whole deal. He's like, I'm done. Yeah.

Yeah he's like i guess he did 20 years and then you know directing and then he's like ah forget it he's like. The one i definitely want to revisit or i guess watch for i don't think because i remember uh talking to beverly and she asked is like have you seen pit stop and i'm like i don't think so pit stop is the one he does after spider baby but it's got beverly and sid in it so they both were in that same movie with him. So I'm like, now I definitely seen what type of movies he puts together and having these same two actors in it. It's like, I definitely want to go watch that one too. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe real. It was, it's like, I'm so happy that, uh, uh, there are things in life that get, held off and not revealed to you until later you know that you didn't you know that there's still things to discover and that there's still you know new things to geek out on you know that it that you know it's not like i'm going like oh i've seen all the movies i want to see you know it's like holy cow there's this whole director that everybody knows about Or he's got an entire filmography. A whole catalog.

A whole catalog. I can do a deep dive into Jack Hill now and see how his movies progressed or regressed or his golden years, his top three movies. You know, and everything. It's kind of like discovering a new band, you know, and you go like, Oh crap. Or like a new, you know, a new author.

You go like, Oh shit, he's got 72 books that, you know, if I want to get dig into all of this, dude, I've got like an, I've got like the next five years set, you know, of what I'm going to be doing, you know, as far as pop culture goes, you know? So, um, yeah, I mean, I think it's real exciting. It's, it's, it's cool that, you know, There's just new things, always new things to discover, you know, and get on with, you know. I think that's a good direction, rounding it out. You know, we've hit the specifics and the grander points and everything.

We can be like the little girl at the end and be ready to go be crazy in the future. I do like that. They set that up so perfectly. Oh, my gosh. How does this movie even work?

I mean, they open it with the guy addressing the camera. Like, that's such a cheesy thing. And you don't even care. Yeah. It would get worse from there but yeah somehow it's like that silly opening that's like yeah the let's see it's the dictionary of rare and peculiar diseases yeah.

Yeah i mean it just go like what. You're like flip over a few i think see what the one i've got because i've got something something ain't right with me so let's. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. So yeah we get to savagery and cannibalism and It seems like it shouldn't work. And yet somehow bookending it with the, it makes it okay.

Because again, we have the, this is what needs to be done for the kids moment. And it makes it a heartfelt version of this story. But then we also kind of want a cheesy horror movie stinger at the end. So we set it up that like, well, the family's not really dead. There's our new little spider baby right there waiting for us.

That's right. The creepy girls are internal. Yeah. Creepy girls will continue on. That's right.

That's right. I am pissed when I see a horror movie and it doesn't have a stinger. I mean, I, I, I need to know that the evil progress is still out there in some form and everything. Especially a movie like this. It's like, this is such a fun movie that you want to set it up.

And like, yeah, they could have come back and done a, you know, at least a spiritual sequel if they wanted to. But yeah, I, I, Maybe it's best that they didn't because who knows what would have happened. Absolutely. Yeah, it's such a fun way to wrap up that movie. And just a nightmare would be somebody with a little bit of clout remakes this.

And then they make three more sequels and then a TV show. And then, you know, I mean, it's. Like, it's like, they kind of did that. Oh yeah. I guess so.

Right. I guess so. Right. Yeah. I have not watched that one.

I watched the trailer. Ah, more power. What do you do? A remake of this like a couple of years ago. Yeah.

Yeah. And that was, that's why I didn't go down that road. Cause I was like, in preparation originally, I was like, all right, maybe I'll watch the third. And I was like, I watched the trailer. I was like, no, I'm just going to be sad.

Like, it's just going to upset me. It is fun that Beverly has a cameo in it. So they did bother to work her in as a, as a nice little, little tie in there. Yeah. But watching the trail.

And again, it was almost like our green screen discussion. It was like, of the, I don't even know that it's green. I'm just like the, it doesn't feel the same. Like I'm so forgiving of, these older movies that, that have a low budget and somehow just put a spin on it and make it work. And then like something about the current movies that like, there are tons of low budget movies that I really love, but it is an uphill battle, man.

Like there's something that just doesn't always translate. And I was afraid that's where we're going. So I avoided it, but, Oh, I didn't realize, I. Didn't realize there was a remake out there. It sounds very much.

Like, You know, another very similar movie with a very similar terrible remake, Carnival of Souls, you know, and everything. The first one's all charm and wonderfulness and perfection. And then there is a Wes Craven Presents remake that nobody remembers. Yeah, for a reason, I'm sure. For a reason.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I was on another podcast and somebody talked about it and I got very upset. That does sound like it. I know you're quite a fan of the original as I recently became, I avoided that one for a long time for some reason.

And then watching it went, Oh no, this is amazing. So like, yeah, yeah. Carnival of souls. Another one of those that fell through the cracks and fell in the public domain. And now you can buy a cheap copy anywhere and you should, because it's.

An awesome movie. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Anyway, anyway.

So yeah, yeah, yeah. And another movie that was on that darn, uh, horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible, vhs that i had i was like going like all these movies are supposed to be horrible but that two of them are now my favorite movies some. Of these are classic films. Absolutely absolutely anyway. Man so yeah i i was just glad to put this together i did once again thanks to you know definitely beverly most recently then Sid, wherever you are now in the great beyond, I hope you're enjoying, uh, watching horror movies.

I don't know. That's what's going to go on in my great beyond. Yeah. Watch a bunch of cheesy horror movies. So I hope Sid knows how much he was loved and like, you know, that, that the fans are still out there talking about him.

Cause I will, I will talk about Sid any chance I get. So, and, and that was my putting this together. I was like, God, it's, it's sort of, this is how I was, cause I was like, well, I need to go and get it done or I'll never get it done. And like, you could piece together a bunch of other stuff along the way, but I was like, no, this is the closest we're going to get to a merry family reunion. Yeah.

Like we've got three kids, two of which are represented here. The other one never got a chance to even talk about it. Like I've never even seen an interview with her talking about this because it was still kind of a lost movie at that point. So yeah. you really won't find any of the third kid. So it's like, this is the closest we get.

The maddest family reunion ever told. So here we are. We've got two of the three kids together, giving their take on it, and then us rambling about how amazing it is. Yeah, for real. I'm enamored with this movie, man.

Yeah, that is what brought it all together. So I'm glad we got a chance to talk about it in both ways. acknowledge how amazing it is because it is one of those that is so much better than it has any right. To be absolutely yeah it's it's shocking it's shocking how good this movie is. And yet fun. Like it'd be different if it were just like a classic film that's really well made, which it is to some extent, but it's also so fun and so enjoyable.

And the characters are so likable, even though they're murdering people, like it shouldn't be this much fun. And yet it is. So it's, it's, it's truly, yeah. Lightning in a bottle, you know? And so it's great when you find these things.

So definitely. Yep. Anything else to pass along? I'm sure we'll be back talking about some other movies in the near future. But for now, let's let's round this one out.

Absolutely. Yep. Yep. All right. Well, once again, thank you to Sid and Beverly and anyone else who has decided to come along on this journey.

And thank you for showing up. And again, I knew you were the other person who would hold the other side of this craziness. Yeah. Yeah. piece this together with me so thank you for recording this wonderful episode. No no thanks for having me on i i wanted a chance to talk about it so yeah.

All right otherwise that about does it we will turn next time same geek feed thanks for listening. Screams and moans and bats and bones Teenage monsters in haunted homes. The face of the staff, the vampire's bite. Better be wet as a full moon tonight Thank you. Spiders creep and crawl.

Boys and ghouls are having a ball. Frankenstein, Dracula, and even the mummy. Our shoe don't end up in someone's tummy. And then you're set for. So you're on the fire with a cup of the brew, a thief and a werewolf on each side of you.

This cannibal orgy. Is strange to behold, and the maddest story ever told. It's the truth. It's the truth, Brian. You have not seen a movie until you've recorded a podcast on it.

This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard! This program is a proud member of the Battleship Pretension Fleet.