W Earl Brown - Unsung Cinema

This is Billy D. Williams, and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. What's up, and welcome to Movie Meltdown's Unsung Cinema. I'm Brian, and in this series, I welcome a guest to discuss their involvement in film, and then we round out the episode talking about a movie that they enjoy that maybe, upon release, didn't get the respect that it deserves. And in this episode, I'm talking with a man that I guarantee you are familiar with.

In fact, you've probably seen him in a lot of projects over the years. You may know him from Scream, or there's something about Mary, or Deadwood, or his current show, Sheriff Country. He is a hardworking actor that is a pretty impressive one at that. That's right, I'm talking with W. Earl Brown, a man from humble beginnings from right here in my own home state, and that's where we're going to begin.

So with that, let's get. To it right now. So, I usually check in with people early on and see, you know, where they came from and how they got involved in everything. And this one has an extra little tie-in, because we hadn't discussed earlier, but I know more or less where you're from, but I'm also from Kentucky. Oh, I didn't know that.

So, now I can ask, you know, from one kid from Kentucky to another, you escaped. Where are you? Where are you from? I'm from Louisville, and yeah, it's as close to a city as we've got, but I know. I'm gonna be there in a few weeks, man.

Very nice. Even more reason. Come hang out. But yeah, I know... I think you were far from there originally, so I guess I've gone a little ways out into the state.

It gets pretty rural. It gets pretty far away from civilization, so I guess how far out into the country were you back in the olden days? Well, I grew up in Callaway County. Nashville's actually the closer city to us. It's 120 miles away.

When I say us, my wife is from there also. We're High school sweethearts. Well, she was still in high school. We don't talk about that now. And Louisville was about a three hour drive from home.

Nashville is about a two hour drive. So when we go back, which we're actually doing on Friday, we're flying into Nashville and then I'll be in Louisville. I'm doing Horror Hound in Cincinnati. There's a scream thing and I'm a part of that. And I've ordered me a hat, a custom made hat from Wild Hats there in Louisville.

So I'm coming over and we're going to make my custom hat. So that's the plan. Very stylish. All right. So I guess that early on, were you already, I guess at what point did you realize like with most kids, it's probably movies or TV.

So early on, what was the first thing that sort of clicked with you? You're like, oh, I think I like this. Well, it's funny that we're having this conversation at this moment because I didn't even think of it. We're going home Friday, and I've not been back there. In quite some time because I was in Toronto working on a show for nine months.

But Scream 7 is opening. And then the following weekend, my wife and I are going to Vegas. And I thought, man, I got to see the movie. Well, hey, I'll go see it in my childhood movie theater where I went to see movies. So I floated that by my mom and my sister.

Well, suddenly I have 26 family members. We're all going to see Scream 7 on Saturday night because I watched Scream there with my family 30 years ago with several of them, a lot of them who've passed on now, actually. So that's where my love of movies really began. The first time I had the hair on the back of my neck experience where I went, oh, my God, I don't know how to do that, was in June or early July of 1977. We'd gone to Daytona Beach, Florida on vacation, and my folks had allowed me to bring my best friend Gene with me.

So my mom has these two pubescent boys together. bouncing off the walls of the hotel. And she goes, do you boys want to do anything today? And I said, yeah, I want to see that space movie I've heard folks talking about back home. So my mom took me and Gene to the mall in Daytona Beach, Florida, and dropped us off. The movie theater was their part of the mall.

And we went to see Star Wars. And I said many a time, I'll never forget that feeling of watching the Imperial Star Destroyer flying over our heads and and the hair on the back of my neck stood up. And it was like that, and the John Williams score, and just this overwhelming feeling. And as I explained to my daughter, when she's now 27, but when she was a kid, I said, you don't understand. All these other movies were influenced by this.

We'd never seen anything like that. And I just, I remember thinking, oh my God, I would love to be a part of that. And so- Then the following year, so I was a freshman in high school that year. And when the toys came out, I desperately, because I don't know how old, you're probably much younger than me. No, I have pretty much the same story as the sad.

Well, Kenner, you know, none of the main toy companies would take the contract. Kenner was a little unknown company. Well, they couldn't meet demand. So they would send these letters out at Christmas that your toy, it's coming in the mail. We promise.

Well, I wanted those toys, but I was in high school. And I'm like, God, I can't. Chicks really wouldn't dig it because nerd culture was not a thing then. Oh, no. Years away from being a thing.

And then I would see little kids playing Star Wars and And I would desperately want to get up and play. But, like, I'm in high school. I can't do that. So hang on just a second because I know we're not on video, but you'll get this sound. Oh, yeah.

That's my Darth Vader. And I got the Luke Skywalker. I got all the fucking toys now. So, yeah. And having done Mandalorian and Boba Fett, they scanned me for an action figure and I signed off on it.

And the last section, the Black series that came out, they cut off at David Pasquese. I'm like, I think I'm right below Pasquese. So I keep my fingers crossed that eventually we're going to get a Taunty action figure. I mean, they do seem like they've gotten to so many. Those, like, the most random people from that original trilogy now have multiple action figures.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They have to get to. Yeah. Yeah, I was definitely going to ask because, you know, knowing that you were into Star Wars as much as you were as a kid to then, you know, full circle become part of the Star Wars universe. Like, how mind-blowing was that?

Yeah. Incredibly so. I love telling this story. My wife works for Disney. When our daughter was born, she didn't want to work full time.

But I have a skill that my wife lacks. I have a skill to sit on my ass and not accomplish anything for days on end and be perfectly content. Not my wife. That's impressive. She volunteered for everything.

She was the chair of the Arts for All Council, funding public arts education. And through that, she got to know people at Disney. And when our daughter went away to college, she went to University of Oregon. Carrie had said, she goes, I'm thinking about going back to work full time. She'd still freelanced with the former company she had worked for, which was a real estate company.

But right around that time, she gets a call from Disney HR and said, we're opening a new division of Streaming. direct-to-consumer, and you've been recommended to us. Would you be interested in working for the Walt Disney Company? So six weeks later, my wife is working for the Walt Disney Company. So I get into Star Wars, right? My agent calls me, Michael, and he said, what's your feeling on prosthetics?

And now you said you hate them. Because I played a demon on Angel, and it was not a fun experience. Hours and hours of application. Not just the makeup. It was not a happy set.

It was not. One of those fun ones. But I said, no, I ain't going through that shit again. No way. Unless somebody's going to pay me seven figures.

Nobody's going to pay me that. He said, well, it's a straight out offer. I'll let them know it's from Disney. Some Star Wars thing. And went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I'm not wrong. It changes everything. Are you talking about Favreau's Mandalorian? Now, Favreau and I started out as actors at the same time in Chicago. We used to audition for the same beer and truck commercial.

So I knew him from back then. And he said, yeah, Jon Favreau is the producer. I went, yes, I want to do it. Yes. Yep.

Yep. Count me in. I'll take it. Whatever they're offering. However many layers of makeup I have to get in.

Let's do this. So season one was not out yet when I signed on. They were starting season two before season one was released. Well, the NDA was 14 pages long and they were the most super secretive. You did not get a full script.

You got the scenes that you were in and only that. If you had action scenes that They would send you a link to an animatic, which was a line drawing animation of the cuts of what the action would be. But that was all that you got. Well, my side said the child. Well, I knew they'd hired Tim Oliphant to be Cobb Vanth.

And Tim and I have a history and we're friends. And Pedro, I'd known for 10 years at that point. We did a pilot together early in his career. And it says the child. So I'm still thinking like, oh, man, okay, this is going to be so cool.

I'm going to get to play Star Wars with my buddies. This is going to be awesome. So we go through. They were so secretive. I had to wear a cowl walking between sound stages when we were doing makeup tests because you had never seen a weekway since Return of the Jedi.

So Tanti was the first weekway. So it's secret, secret, secret. I mean, everybody's got a camera now. You're never safe. Oh, yeah, yeah.

So anyway. My first day of filming was Thursday before season one is being released on Friday. So I go to work and it was so secretive. The Teamster, Tatooine was actual. Everything else was on the volume, but they actually built Tatooine and they built my cantina.

And it was about a mile or so from the lot. It was in this hidden away. So the driver that took us there had to step out and then another driver had to step in to actually drive us onto the set. Someone with clearance. That's how secretive it was.

So I get out and there's a bantha right in front of me. Like there's a working fucking bantha. And I'm like, oh my God. Your mind is blown. So it's just like two puppeteers take to operate.

Oh my God, this is so cool. So I'm on Tatooine, dude. And so we get in, we get into the set. We're in the cantina. And Tim, of course, is in the Boba Fett armor.

And, you know, he's the deputy of the town. Well, I'm behind the bar. And he and I did the show Deadwood on HBO, which is my favorite thing ever. It was this very eloquent Shakespearean, vulgar, violent Western. So Tim comes walking up.

He comes walking over to me and I'm behind the bar and I go. You ought to pin that fucking badge on your chest. You just hypocrite enough to wear it, you fucking cocksucker, which is a line that I delivered to him in season two of Deadwood. Tim throws some Deadwood line back at me and Favreau starts laughing. He goes, oh, my God, I've recreated Deadwood in space.

I said, can we throw some fucks and cocksuckers into the dialogue? He goes, I don't think George would sign off on that. So we're having a big laugh. And the props guy comes in, and on the props cart is a baby Yoda. And I just thought to myself, oh, that's so cute.

The props guy made himself a little toy. That's gorgeous. So there's Pedro. So we're having a Deadwood laugh, and John goes, all right, let's block it. Let's run one, see what we come up with.

So everybody to one. I'm thinking, well, where's the child? The child doesn't speak in the scene, but he's got, I haven't even seen the kid all day long. So Pedro goes out, me and Tim talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And then Pedro enters and there's a puppeteer operating a Grogu on a stick.

And I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, that's the child. So we shoot for the day. I get home that night and we're sitting at the dinner tables, just my wife and I. And I'm like, so I, like, I wanted to call my high school buddies. I so desperately wanted to call.

Guess what, dude? Guess what? Well, can't do that. You know, sworn to secrecy. So I was sitting at the table and she says, how's your day?

I said, well, my God. So I said, get this. There's okay. There's, there's a baby Yoda. I mean, it's not Yoda.

Cause Yoda's a different being, but it's, it's like the race of Yoda. It's not really a baby. Cause it's 50 years old, but, but, And my wife has this incredulous look on her face. And I went, what we get, what you knew, you, you, you knew you've known. And with perfect timing, my wife said, you're not the only person in this house who has a non-disclosure agreement.

So she's like, you can't, you can't tell anybody. She's better than you. Cause she kept it to herself. Yeah. I didn't tell anybody.

The only thing when they sent me my crew shirt, Of course, by Friday, the next day, it's premiered. And by Monday, Grogu is ubiquitous. It's everywhere. But they had kept everything quiet. It was only on a need-to-know basis.

The designs were there, but no manufacturing of any toys, any T-shirts, any posters, nothing until it. Made it splash. That's impressive. So I knew that little bastard when he was a nobody. Yeah.

And now he rules the entire town. Well, you can't see it, but sitting just here on the other side is a Sideshow full-size actual replica of Grogu. And across the room from me is my full-size replica of Yoda, also from Sideshow. I mean, Grogu is kind of one of my favorite things that they've done in recent years. They've done a lot of stuff, but I think that, well, I mean, the Mandalorian as a whole, I think is kind of the most impressive thing because it's, It's making up for all these other things that they've neglected in the Star Wars universe.

It's the first time. We have a good dad, for God's sakes. But Dave and John recognize because they're of the Star Wars generation. Things got so self-serious. Oh, yeah.

You know, the sequels did. They got heavy-handed. And what made those first movies is they were fun. They were silly fun. And they remembered that.

And that's what Mando was and continues to be, so. But it's also kind of smart in the way that it works in these other... To me, so much of it is also about having too much blind faith in religion. There's these underlying things that are a little heavier. And then also when you get to Grogu and finally someone makes the right decision. when for years we've watched every Jedi person make the, like, okay, I'll give up everything to go be part of the Jedi.

And it always backfires. And like, finally, someone's smart enough. Grogu. It's like, no, I don't want to do that. This is terrible.

Well, Wes Craven said something once we were, he was one of my mentors and was a dear friend. And we were talking about nightmare. And I said, reminds me Ibsen's ghost. He went ghost. Do you know ghost?

I said, I haven't done it, but I did scenes from it. He went thematically, oh, it was a heavy influence on the original Elm Street. And so we start talking about that mythology. And Wes, who was never a big horror fan, he said, I recognize, those were the movies I could get made. Those were the movies I could get funding to do.

But he said, I recognize something early on. I could deal with heavy themes. I could deal with dark ideas. As long as I had a scare every 10 pages. And I'm kind of that same way about, you know, Mando.

And as long as it has the fun, the wow factor, you know, they can delve into the religious and the political and all of that stuff. So, you know, without that temperament of lightness. Of fun, then it gets heavy handed. So I'm a big fan, even if I am in it. Yeah.

I mean, again, I think it's one of the best things they've done since the original trilogy. I think it's so much fun and yet has kind of bigger, smarter things to say. But that feeling has never left me, that feeling in the movie theater. And I know we talked about the first half of this being the movies that were influenced. It was the next summer after that, there were two films, Halloween and Animal House.

Also sitting near me are a bunch of Halloween and Animal House stuff too. Those were the movies that I went to see over and over again. Because back in my day, we didn't have your fancy VHS tapes that you kids today have, your Betamax and whatnot. We had to go to the movie theater. So I did.

And those movies were the ones that were just like, I will never forget the feeling. And I've talked to Nick Castle about this. The first time seeing Halloween, when you think Laurie Strode has killed Michael Myers. And then, you know, she's sitting there at the door of her bedroom. And then Michael Myers sits up in the background.

And that electric shock that went through the audience. There's actually film on YouTube. Someone shot an infrared, the audience watching it back in 1978. And, you know, that's another feeling that never left me. That communal experience of movies.

That's why what I mentioned earlier about taking my family, the owner of it's an independent theater. It's local there in Murray. And it's been in the family for decades. But he gave me the option. He goes, we have a smaller theater.

I could give it just to your to, you know, your family could have it. And I said, no, I want to see it with all 300 people in that auditorium. because of that communal experience, because of that energy that's within the room. You know, as long as you don't have some asshole sitting next to you on his damn phone or something like that, I prefer seeing movies with an audience because it elevates the entire experience, the energy that's created. So those were my movies. Those were the ones of This rural kid in Kentucky who had no fucking idea of what he wanted to do with his life except get away.

I wanted to see the world. I mean, you know, I knew people that they never left, you know, they never went beyond the county line. And there was so much I wanted to see and do and experience. And you really get down to it. I'm doing the exact same shit that I did when I was five years old.

I play cops and robbers and cowboys and Indians. I just get paid for it. So as my wife said, talking about that, she goes, you're a perpetual 14-year-old. More like 12. But yeah.

I mean, Halloween was such an influential movie for you in general, but I mean, you, you already kind of led in with the, the, the West things. I mean, to me, it's kind of that same dynamic of kind of coming full circle. It's like you, you were so influenced by Halloween, but then what Halloween was to those late seventies movies, I feel like scream was to the mid nineties. So it totally like reinvigorated a whole horror industry. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. I have one of those old man experiences. When we were shooting Preacher, Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg, those two guys, they met in bar mitzvah class at 12 years old. And they were both these Jewish nerdy kids who were so into comic books and monsters. And Preacher had just published the first splat.

And that's what they bonded over. And a lot of the frames of our show came right out of that comic book. because of their. Love of it. And shooting that with them was like, you know, that joy. Like imagine your best friend when you were 13 years old, that you get to make big movies, you get to paint on a big canvas.

And it was that kind of feeling with them. And I told them the story of my movies, the three that made me want to be in movies. And, um, and I said that, you know, Animal House, you know, Star Wars, Animal House, Halloween. And Evan goes, oh yeah, man, screaming. There's something about Mary.

We're like that for us. That was the first time I felt old. Like, you know, hell that's been eight years ago. First time I'm like, oh my God, I'm the old man on the set. But at least influential.

Oh, I would go to like, well, I worked with James. I was in a movie with James Earl Jones. I didn't have scenes with him. It was called Excessive Force. Everything its title implies it being.

Excessive Force shot in Chicago in 1992. And I went on the days he was there just to hang out with him and talk to him and like ask him about Mate One, one of my favorite movies, and of course, Star Wars. But yeah, so yeah, suddenly that dawning realization that I've, you know, Most of my heroes, a lot of them are gone. And now I'm 62 years old and Scream is 30 years old. It's a classic now.

We had no idea when we were shooting it. We didn't know that we were capturing lightning in a bottle. But we did. We were. And here we are 30 years later and it's still a thing.

Yeah, I mean, surprisingly, I still... Driving here earlier today, I passed by somebody waiting for the bus wearing a Ghostface shirt. It is so immersed in the culture at this point. It is just... He is Michael Myers.

He's equally as identifiable as just a horror character now. There's a lot of Ghostface stuff in this room I'm sitting in also. So, I mean, that movie, again, you said you didn't really know at the time... I mean, what was the shoot itself? Cause that, that whole second half, like the party scene is in your, you're sort of an instrumental part of that party scene, I guess, spoilers for a 30 year old movie.

But, but I mean, how was that whole shoot there? Well, and where the, where the real drama happened that we, we weren't aware of Miramax. It was their first, they had started the dimension label. This was the Weinstein brothers and, And Bob Weinstein, Harvey's younger brother, was going to start making genre films instead of arty films. And Scary Movie was the script name.

And so they had bought it on spec from Kevin Williamson, a budding young string writer. Well, they wanted Wes, and Wes turned him down. Wes was trying to get out of horror. And I had done Wes Craven's New Nightmare. That was the first movie I did with him.

And it was the first, like, meta horror film. Yeah. I think it gets forgotten about as smartly as it's put together. Yeah. Well, they finally made a deal with him.

They came back around, made a very lucrative deal to get him on board. So we all had dinner at his house before we left. And he said, before we get started, I just want to say this. We are making a satire of the genre. But this is a very important lesson I learned on my last movie, which was Vampire in Brooklyn, I was also in.

He said, I learned this. If the movie is not scary, it will not be funny. So never at any point fall into playing the comedy. We always play into the drama and the horror. So we go up.

They had offered the role of Sidney to Drew Barrymore, and she turned it down. And Drew had suggested, she goes, how about I play this opening girl, this Casey Becker, the one that gets killed? Well, Weston loved the idea. Okay. We only have one movie star in the movie and we kill her off in the first 10 minutes.

The audience is not going to know what's coming. It's going to. So, so wouldn't, I mean, she's the poster image. Like you would totally assume she's the whole movie. Yeah.

So that was the first thing he shot. They had been there about a week when most of the rest of us showed up. We shot in Santa Rosa, California, and we all stayed the cast crew, everybody. We were all in the same hotel. And it was the most fun.

It was everything young me. You dreamt about making movies. You make these really good friends. And you have fun. And you're playing.

And that is what Scream was. I was the oldest person at 32 that was part of the regular. Courtney's about six months younger than me. And then most of those guys were in their mid-20s. So we were relatively of the same generation.

But we hung out, dude. And we just had so much fun. But that first week.... Miramax Dimension was going to fire Wes Craven. He called up the producers, Kathy Conrad, and he goes, I'm watching these dailies.

I don't see a movie here. This is awful. Because Wes knew what he had. He knew what was there. So unbeknownst to us, she holds him off of Weinstein, and Wes brings his editor up and starts editing.

So we're shooting at night. Wes is editing during the day. Poor man didn't sleep for about two weeks. Jeez. So he cuts together that opening 10 minutes with temp music and sends it to New York.

Get a call from Weinstein. What do I know about horror? I know nothing about horror. This is brilliant. So we go from, you know, that opening segment is taught in film schools.

Oh, yeah. Like film students study that, how it's framed, how it's edited, how he uses the music to build this ever increasing sense of tension. Leads to, you know, the opening of the film. So you go from Wes is going to be fired over it to it's something that 30 years later still has an impact. You know, every teenager, it's a rite of passage.

And that happened when my daughter was in middle school. I said, she's 27. She graduated high school in 16. But, you know, the first three movies that happened, Scream, and then it kind of went away for, you know, several years. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't a thing.

When she was in middle school, she'd come home one day and she goes, aren't you in that movie Scream? My daughter completely unimpressed by anything I'd ever done. Of course. And she says, you know, that's like really popular in school. There's a kid that's actually having a Scream party this weekend.

There's a whole bunch of them getting together. To watch it. I went, really? And that was four was, of course, that, you know, they were promoting four. Was bringing it back.

Um, but that's when it really kind of became part of the permanent zeitgeist and became this rite of passage. So, you know, it is for that generation. It's Halloween every, every year I watch, I watch Halloween on Halloween and, um, um, scream is right there alongside of it. So, and I'm a part of it. And that's, that's why this room, I talk about all my toys and stuff.

I got my rock and roll posters, all the shit that this is my penultimate teenage boy bedroom. everything else in this house, it's an older house that we're restoring to 1921 glory, except the attic. And as my wife said, it's a teenage boy bedroom. And I said, yeah. And it's because I still have my Johnny West figures from when I was five years old, my actual toys. I have an actual kiss poster that hung on my wall when I was 14.

You're as bad as I am. That's how I operate. Well, I sit here amongst all of this And it gives me a sense of gratitude because everything that I dreamt of my life being when I was a kid in rural Kentucky, living 12 miles outside of Murray, everything I dreamt that I wanted my life to. Be, it became. And it just fills me with a sense of immense gratitude.

So that's why my room is the way it is. Well, that's how it should be. I mean, who doesn't want to have their toys surrounding them at all times? And it's not, and now in high school, you can do it. I go to cons and it's full of, of guys and gals and.

Everything in between just being themselves and happy to be so. So that's, that's kind of what's impressive is as, as you referenced earlier, like it wasn't anything but like 12 year old boys back in the day. Now, like it is equally as much, if not more so girls. And that's, that's become such a thing that there are so many girls that are into horror and so many girls are sci-fi nerds that I'm like, it's, it's been really kind of reassuring to see that, you know, kind of everybody gets into it now. I had to, I held off on doing those for years because, And then there was one, a big one in Louisville.

No, it was in Louisville. Yeah, Louisville. No, Lexington. Lexington's got a couple, yeah. It was in Lexington because it was attached to Rupp Arena.

Anyway, because I'm from Kentucky, the promoters, I said, man, I feel uncomfortable charging people to sign an autograph. And he said, well, look at it this way, Earl. He said, either I can charge fans $ 500 for a ticket for the weekend so they can come and they can meet the people that made their favorite movies there. And whatnot, and get their. Picture taken, or I could charge that fan $ 50 to come in, and then they get to decide how, when, or if they spend other money, and he's, that's the only way we can afford to pay you.

Guys, and to get you here, and I'm, oh, that's an interesting way of looking. At it, so I actually had some, I've had exchanges with fans, I've done, I do a couple a year, so I've done, what, eight eight, maybe 10. I don't know. But there, when you, when you meet with somebody that your work really mattered. And I remember this, the, this, this kid that he was a big gamer and the last of us.

And I played bill. I created bill in the last of us. And, and the kid said, he goes, man, I just, I've never fit in anywhere in my life because I'm a gamer and I'm gay. All the gay guys hated me because I'm a nerd. And all the nerdy kids hated me because I'm queer.

And he said, for the first time in my life playing that game, I'm like, oh, my. God, that's Bill. Bill's me. And anyway, those kind of exchanges with people where you see the stories that you've been a part of telling, you know, just, again, make me very grateful. And, you know, as far as cons, hell, if I wasn't sitting on that side of the desk, I would go.

I would still, I'd be that 60 year old dude. Um, I don't know that I'd cosplay anymore. Um, that's a lot of trouble. It's a lot of work. Um, that's my day job, damn it.

Uh, so, but no, I, I do. Um, and, and a couple of years about all I can do, cause it takes a lot out of me, um, energetically, but, um, I do enjoy it. So it's, yeah, I mean, I've been going to him for longer years than I can even, count at this point. And, and it is, it is interesting because now I got like, we did so many for the show that like, I got kind of numb to the basics of it and the routine. I'm just kind of used to it, but yeah, you do see, like, I've, I've been in line behind people that have had that full on experience.

I've been that person that's had that full on experience that, that is just like, I can't explain to you how much this means. And like, Sometimes it's hard to take for the person on the other side of the table. But it is very honest. And you do see that from these people. I was in a van.

I was in a van in Washington with Nick Castle. Next to Nick. Hey, dude. Okay. You said at the end of the day, I went, okay, I'm wiped out.

I know you're wiped out, but I just got to talk to you. So, you know, I was in a, well, Elvira. She wasn't in the van with us. I've met numerous. Adrienne Barbeau gave me a chocolate chip cookie on the plane.

Adrienne Barbeau, man. Oh, yeah. So, yes, I do enjoy that now and again. Bill Moseley gave me a cookie one time. I bet it wasn't as sweet as Adrienne Barbeau's.

No, it was a pecan sandy. But he was very nice about it. So that's the thing. There are so many of these people that you see. and you see them time and again. So it does seem like you, you build this little network and this little family of, of traveling people that go to all these conventions.

So it is, it is kind of its own, its own little world more or less. Well, I, we, we hit scream. I did want to talk about a couple of your movies before we got into the, the, the episodes movie. Um, the, the other one I was kind of looking through the list. You've got so many, it's kind of, overwhelming, really.

But I figured the one that you probably got maybe the most invested in, I was going to talk about Bloodworth. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that did you find? I mean, I know it's a pre-existing property, but did you decide I want to turn this into a screenplay or how did it make its way to you?

I became friends with Shane Taylor. Shane had He's from Kentucky. He's from Louisville. Peerless Distilling, Peerless down there in Louisville. That's his family.

I know of them, yeah. Yeah, that's his family. But Shane was a movie nerd. And I met him. He had gone to Murray State for a year.

He was a walk-on on the basketball team. But they didn't have a film program and he went away. But I heard, hey, man, they shot a movie here last summer. I'm like, yeah, right. No, no, man, those folks are from Hollywood.

They shot a movie here. And I said, because this was in the late 90s, you know, I had done I think how Deadwood may have been on the air early aughts. I don't know, but I said, well, I've never heard of it. Ended up, it was Shane and he shot this movie called the gray. It's set in the, it's a father son story set in the cockfighting world with.

Mark Boone, Jr. As the dad, it ended up, Shane kept inviting me to screenings and I would avoid it. Cause I'm like, I, I like this dude and come on, this movie is going to suck. I'm, I'm, I just, And he joked about it because he was still splitting his time between Louisville and here. He worked for ESPN.

He was a sports producer for them. But he finally called me and said, hey, are you home today? I went, yeah, man, just hanging out at the house because I'm bringing my movie over. Oh. Can't avoid it now.

It was extraordinary. It was absolutely extraordinary to make it on the shoestring budget that he made it. And I said, man, I want to do something with you sometime. So I read Provinces of Night. I, my wife had met William Gay and interviewed him for a thing.

And I got obsessed with William's writing. I got obsessed with William. Um, he was like right out of a Faulkner novel. The man, if you talk to him, he talked about like, yes, talk real slow. He had a real thick, uh, Tennessee's from hole in wall.

And really thought, and you, and then you would look at the language of his, his use of language in writing. I, How does this man have that command? It's like Billy Joe Shaver as a songwriter. Anyway, William, I read Provinces and I'm like, oh my God, this is my Holden Caulfield. Because I remember reading, I didn't really realize at the time Catcher in the Rye was a satire.

He was making fun of Holden Caulfield. But I read it as like an 18-year-old. I'm like, oh, it's life-changing, my Holden Caulfield. I remember thinking, Holden Caulfield's just a fucking asshole. Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like as kids, they make you read it in high school and nobody gets it. You are that asshole at that point. Yeah, you're so dick. It's only later you realize, oh, okay. Well, I read Provinces of Night and I'm like, oh, Fleming Bloodworth.

That's my Holden Caulfield. This kid that longed to be a writer, to be an artist, and he was stuck. My family was not stuck in poverty. Um, you know, we were definitely a working class family, but, uh, you know, we, we, we got to go to Florida on vacation because of my industrious hardworking mother. But, uh, but anyway, that was, I told Shane Taylor, I sent him the book and he was flying somewhere for ESPN and he called me when he landed and he went, is the rights to this book available?

And I went, well, let's find out. So we called, we didn't have any money. So we're trying to get the rights and the agents, you know, not, not giving us the time of day. And I think we come up with, with, with like $ 5, 000, you know, for the rights, something like that. And William, cause my wife had interviewed him.

I had his phone number and William was a huge music nut. And we were trying to get Chris Christopherson to play the lead. Um, but I was with in Nashville, I was hanging out with Steve Earl and we're talking about this and trying to make this movie. I said, actually, Would you be willing to talk? So I called William and I said, hey, man, you know, I know we're to trust us.

I said, I've worked. There's somebody I worked with. I did a play of his. His first play. We're good friends.

And he'll vouch for me. If you know, if you I don't know if you know, Steve. Steve Earl, Steve Earl. I said, yeah, he's right here. Well, hell yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So it was that. It was Steve's vote. Of confidence that William called his agent and go, take that kid's deal.

So it took us, we had the money in pre-production, we had money. were in pre-production. Within a 12-hour span of time in 1986, Deadwood got canceled and we lost our money. So it took us three years to get it put back together. But it was truly a labor of love. And we raised $ 5 million.

We got Chris Christopherson. I got to spend a lot of one-on-one time with Chris. We became close friends. And I wouldn't trade that for anything. The producing side of the movie, it.

Kicked my ass. I love the creative side, the creative producing side. Like, okay, we can't afford this location. We can't because we got to, okay, well, I have to creatively solve. How can I take that scene from that location?

Maybe I could come. That part of it, I liked. The money part of it, I did not like. That's a whole different thing, yeah. Yeah, but we got our little movie made and we sold it to Sony.

We never made back all the money. We overspent. I mean, looking back now, because Shane, he's made a bunch of, it's kind of become his thing. He does these $ 2 million action movies. And we talk about where we could have cut corners and saved money on Bloodworth.

But yeah, it was an absolute labor of love that I adapted the screenplay. I produced it with Shane. We ran out of money, so one of my songs is the closing credit song, the second one. I went, well, I know where we can get one more song. I can get you a deal on it.

I have the publishing. So anyway, yeah, it was a true labor of love. That's an amazing cast, though. I mean, Chris Gustafsson, Dwight Yoakam, Val Kilman, Barry Corbin. Yeah, still hear from Barry every now and again.

And I stayed in touch with Chris. I hosted a big tribute to Chris. I hosted two of them, actually. Hosted one in Nashville at the big arena on his birthday in 2016. And then the Outlaw Country Cruise, Chris's memory had gone at that point.

And he only performed twice more after that. He performed on the cruise, and then we did a tribute on the cruise that we sang his songs. So anyway, yeah, getting to befriend so many of my heroes. I'm a big music nut, and there's posters on my wall of people whose posters I had on my wall as a kid, and I'm friends with them. There's ZZ Top.

I was friends with Dust, and I'm good friends with Billy. So yeah, this career has afforded me a lot of wonderful things in my life. Yeah, I mean, I was gonna see how Chris was to shoot with because yeah, I saw probably right after that. I think it was around that same time. They did a showing at the Kentucky Theater and they were doing, I think it was Pat and Billy the Kid and they were doing a showing of it and brought him in.

It was sort of like a fundraiser and they brought him in. But he really didn't even do Q & A. It was just sort of an introduction. And I think his wife was super protective at that point. Yeah.

The dementia was really starting to set in. He was having problems remembering his lines when we were doing the movie. Yeah. And he talked about it. Yeah, he talked about it.

And then there was a progression of the dementia. Yeah. And he had stopped doing movies because not only couldn't, he couldn't remember like his blocking. And they did one Western with, I think Trace Adkins was in it, that Chris was in. And like on set, he couldn't remember his blocking.

So that was the end of the movies. And then his songs, because, you know, the music stays with dementia patients the longest. So he sang as long as he could. But yeah. Yep.

He still pulls it off, though, because he's a badass in the movie. He's like pushing 80, and I still feel like he would kick your ass. He said, after the movie came out, he said, he goes, I think I've been involved with three great films in my career. I think the three best was the Pat Garrett, you know, that was the one that the Peckinpah did. Yeah, yeah.

And it's great. He said, Pat Garrett, Lone Star and Bloodworth. Those are my favorites. And I'm like, oh, fuck, that's pretty high cotton. Yeah, that's an impressive lineup there, man.

I just bought the Criterion 4K version of Lone Star. I haven't watched it yet. It's been a while. I need to revisit it because it's so impressive. Oh, it's so well written.

It's so good. And the fact that John Sayles can't even get a movie made, that's fucking criminal. Well, again, somebody who, once again, came from just schlocky B-movies, and he's got that in him. He's like, no, I'm a writer. I can do this.

You just wait. He took money from doing a rewrite on Piranha and used to make the Secaucus 7. Yeah, he's put out some great stuff over the years. I don't know him. I've met him once in passing.

He was one of those filmmakers I really wanted to work with. But yeah, I heard now he just writes movies. That's the only time I've seen him. He was actually at a bookstore here. He did a reading from his latest novel and was just kind of selling signed books.

That's the last time I've seen him out in the world. Well, I guess if you're ready, we can get into the movie that we are discussing. That leads around. This was one of those movies that I honestly think it's one of the funniest films ever made. If I had to come up, if I had to come up with a top 10 of my favorite comedies ever, that animal house.

Is number one. Big Lebowski is number two. And Cedar Rapids would be way up there. Cause I've, I've watched it probably half a dozen times over the years. It's one of those movies when, when somebody comes over and we're hanging and like, if, The Accountant is that short film that Walton Goggins and Ray McKinnon won the Oscar for.

I have a copy of it. Like, oh, my God, you haven't seen The Accountant? You haven't seen Cedar Rapids? So, yeah, it's criminal, the marketing of that movie. It just disappeared because that movie would have played mainstream.

You know, it's not like it's some quirky little art film. It's laugh out loud funny and could have it and should have broken through to the mainstream. But most people never even heard of it. That was, yeah, that was my first question is, yeah, why this movie? And because it's this good, really.

But I don't think I don't think we've spoken the title. It's Cedar Rapids starring Ed Helms and John Reilly and Anne Heche and Isaiah Kemp. Whitlock. I'll do the rundown here. Yep.

Our unsung cinema feature is Cedar Rapids. The year is 2011. The director is Miguel Arteta. And the plot, according to IMDb, is Tim Lipp has no idea what he's in for when he's sent to Cedar Rapids, Iowa to represent his company at an annual insurance convention where he soon finds himself under the guidance of three convention veterans. So that's not bad.

So spoiler alert, I suppose we're going to. dig into this so but yeah i think as you as you suggested it i i was like i think i remembered the title but even then i was like mixing it up with three other movies that are kind of similar titles so it's like yeah i i think that's a huge oversight on their part you have especially to have that cast like once again talk about like an amazing cast of like comedy it. Wasn't too far removed from stepbrothers you know at the peak of his career Yeah. And he's, you know, the number two or three on it. Number two, Deansy. Yeah.

And Ed, Chris, it was the first time Ed had led, to my knowledge, was the first time he was the lead in a movie. And I think that was post-Hangover. Yeah, it was. It had to be. 2011.

So the fact that they've got one of the leads of The Hangover and one of the leads of Step Brothers and Talladega Nights and all that. Yeah, every comedy that came out at that point. So whoever released and marketed that film, fucked up. I mean, just, yeah. I mean, Stephen Root, Kirtwood Smith, Ali Shaw, Thomas Lennon, briefly.

But there's so many... impressive people kind of scattered in here and yeah it's it's just weird that yeah you really haven't heard anything about. It But you mentioned, Stephen, you know, like Office Space was a failure when it came out in the movie theaters. Yeah, yeah. And then it kind of found its audience over the years. Kind of for that same reason.

Like, they didn't know what to do with it. Like, studios were like, how do we market this? And who's the target audience? And, like, it took people just discovering it on their own on VHS and on cable. And they were like, wait, no, this movie's brilliant.

Yeah. So, so yeah, but, but Cedar Rapids has never found its, its audience. So if you're listening to this and you haven't seen it, highly recommend you go watch it. Well, it's also surprising, like, because as you said, it definitely works as a comedy because it's also like, it has no problem being massively vulgar and it works in nudity and it like works in drug use and drinking and like, so it's not a, it's not a safe kids comedy or anything. It's not family friendly, but at the same time, it's got. so much heart that it's like kind of amazing that they balance those two because by the end like that's the part that kind of won me over it's like it's surprising like i was like oh yeah i forgot like Everything John C.

Reilly says for most of the movie is just horribly inappropriate. But by the end, you're like, man, I love that guy. Well, that's the difficulty. He's this lovable asshole that you really realize by the end of the movie, he's not that big of an asshole. He's still an asshole.

But that's really hard to pull off. And you pull off the heart of it. And I didn't know Isaiah. I've known his work over the years. um isaiah whitlock uh who just passed away. He's maybe the best character like his his delivery is just so amazing like it's just so funny.

Him and ann i i did a reading once with ann so i knew her in passing um but you know both those guys have passed away yeah so watch the movie in memoriam but definitely. But, yeah, it's surprising how much by the end of it, like, we get through and you see, like, you see this little core group again, this little, like, makeshift family for a weekend. And, like, they've barely spent any time together, but they found all this, like, important life-changing, you know, you didn't expect that. I certainly didn't going into this. And, like, even seeing the trailer going, okay, I kind of see where they're going.

But, like, it ends up really kind of having heart that you didn't expect. even in the middle of this crazy, like, you know, plot to take bribe money more or less. It's got all these other like things that kind of could distract you from that along the way, but it doesn't like by the end, you're still just totally roped into this, this performance. And that's the thing that, that work, the plot works so well within the context of the humor that that's the thing with, with like, well, something about Mary. I mean, I think something about Mary is one of the, you know, I think it's the Farrelly brothers greatest movie. Yeah.

And I love their first three. I love Dumb and Dumber and I love Kingpin. But like Dumb and Dumber, the crime plot that kind of drives. It sort of works. But it's not really important.

But in some of their later movies, like Me, Myself and Irene, I didn't believe the plot. I didn't believe it. And hence, I found a lot of the humor didn't land for me because it didn't feel genuine. But that's the thing about Cedar Rapids is the plot that's at the middle is completely believable. And Ed, you know, being suckered into that and having his own sense of ethics that he's trying to stand up for.

It works and it works at every level. But still, it's just really fucking funny. He's so simplistic that like for a while I'm like, I don't know if I can even get on board. Like he's so standoffish and. And he wins you over.

But that's the thing of, as I was talking about earlier, about growing up in my small town, for anyone that doesn't know the movie, he plays, he works for this really small town independent insurance agents. And they have their annual state conventions in Cedar Rapids and Well, they send him along to get the five diamond plaque award. But they're really kind of using him. He's never been on an airplane. Going to Cedar Rapids is a big deal for him.

He's this small town rube. So he's all excited. And then they're in some cookie cutter suburban hotel that's hosting it. And that's where he runs into, he was warned about this Dean Z guy, which is John C. And then So, you know, madness ensues.

It's his wild lost weekend. Watching him react to stuff is kind of the funniest. Him getting his cheesy rental car going, sweet. Oh, yeah. And looking at that like dated hotel that looks like it would have been remodeled twice since then.

And you're like, wow, this is like Barbados. But again, I know people like that. I know people that have never left Murray. Now, Murray, hell, Murray's a big town for a lot of folks. It's a town of about 30,000 people, including the college that's there.

That's my hometown, Murray State's there. It's a lot of the city too, yeah. But that's why I'm friends with SG Goodman, the singer, songwriter, and she lives in Murray. She's from Hickman, Kentucky, which is really out in the sticks. She lives not far from my mom, actually.

But she said, she goes, yeah, man, Murray's as big a city as I want to live in. When I got signed, started making records, I said, you need to live in Nashville. And she went, I went there. I lasted about two months. Murray is as big a city as I want.

I'm thinking, Murray, a city? Really? You know? Louisville's pushing it. But yeah, but those.

Folks, like, again, and I went to high school with some people like that. But at its core, You know, Ed's. Character in that movie is a good person that having new life experience. So the craziest part, the most unbelievable part is Ed hooking up with Sigourney Weaver. And it's not really a healthy relationship, we'll say, because he still refers to her as his teacher, Miss Vendor.

He still treats her like it's his teacher. I'm like, yeah, that's a little weird. He has a one-nighter with his old teacher, yeah. And is, like, completely in love with her. So, yeah, you can see, like...

And then before the weekend is over, he's told Allie that he loves her. And, like, he immediately falls in love with any woman that comes along. But, yeah, it's surprisingly well put together. And then I went back and looked at the director, Miguel, like... I also saw his first movie in the theater.

I remember going to see Star Maps and did not realize that was him. I remember that being really well put together. It's an indie movie, but it definitely was kind of smartly written and you don't really see the budget that much. He kind of knew his limitations and knew how to work it. I think Cedar Rapids, wasn't that his second film?

Wasn't it like the momentum of Star Maps got him the money to do Superman? I was looking at the list. He did other stuff. I think indie-wise, Chuck and Buck kind of got a good amount of push. I remember that at the time.

People talked about that for indie movies. That's him? Yeah. With Mike White? Yeah.

And then the other one I remember. I did know that. I did know that, yeah. And then I was the good girl. I remember seeing that in the theater and seeing that going, wow, Jennifer Aniston turned in like a really good performance.

Like I didn't expect her to show up for this low budget movie, but like. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. So as time went on, he does like much more mainstream. He does like your Alexander and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

And he does yesterday. And like, so he does stuff that's way more mainstream, big budget stuff as time goes on. But, yeah, I think that this part in the middle here where he's making these indie movies and bringing in some good cast, like it's, I think you can see it because this one, this one holds up. See, that's why if, if, if, if I could make a living and you know, I, that, that's right up my, the kind of stuff I would prefer to do. Quirky, weird, out of the way kind of things.

Yeah. But you know, you just can't make the same money. And I still, I, I, I have a, for the first time in my life that I'm on a hit TV show and we're being treated as such. And, um, it's a CBS show. It's, it's, and as I said, we're in a box.

I know that it's a CBS crime procedural produced by Bruckheimer, but within the box, we can still tell interesting stories until still be honest. Um, so the, the, uh, I have. Found the work to be very rewarding actually, but still my, my heart and soul, like this hiatus, uh, because it's kind of boosted my career profile. And I've told my agents that what. I want to do during hiatus is something like a Cedar Rapids.

It's some kind of indie movie that I get to carry a big chunk of it. And so, you know, I'm still on the lookout for that sort of a thing. Did you enjoy the writing process on the previously mentioned movie? Do you want to create those yourself or just find something that works? Um, it, it depends.

Actually, I have a horror film. Now, if I had my druthers of anything, there's a horror film that I wrote that I could, I don't want to direct it. I shouldn't, it deals with race and there's a young director that, that is, uh, has the, understands it and the right sensibility. I'd love to work with him on it when inspiration strikes. Um, I mean, and I'm actually, I've been typing on, I'm doing an adaptation of a play to a screenplay. that hopefully we can raise some money to do.

It's 400,000 is what his budget is. So I'm hoping next high, and I am in that because I did the play. I did the play readings. And I'm the one who said, this should be a movie. And you could do this movie for not much more money than it would take you to fully produce a play.

So yeah, I just, when the muse speaks to me, when I get inspiration, then I write. Um, what was it? Dorothy Alice or Dorothy Parker said, I think it was her. She goes, I don't like writing. I love having written.

Yeah, that's the thing. It's hard fucking work, man. That was my takeaway. It's like, I've done writing. I started writing before the audio.

And like, when I think back now and I go like, I could do, ah, That was a lot of work. It just felt like work. Stories molded my life, whether I heard them via song, whether I watched them on a silver screen, whether I read them in a book. I think storytelling is a sacred part of existence. It's how we understand who we are. and who others are.

Going back to that kid that said to me about The Last of Us, of seeing himself in a video game. That matters. And I feel blessed and full of gratitude to be able to have made a living doing this, telling stories. Because at the end of the day, that's what we're doing. And hopefully they're good stories that have an impact on people.

And as far as doing my TV show now, I look back at I watch a lot of memorable entertainment television, you know, the old shows that, that I grew up on and some. Of them, you know, like Mannix late at night, my, my, My parents would watch Mannix. I hated Mannix. Well, now I kind of like watching Mannix. You're diving into my nighttime viewing, because there's that triple threat there.

You've got Mannix, and then you've got Cannon, and then you follow it up with, what's the. Don't forget his follow-up, Jake and the Fat Man. Oh, yeah. Well, that's another one. That's one I didn't realize.

He's from Louisville. Oh, Frank Conrad, or Frank Cannon? Yeah, Cannon, yeah. That's another one I looked into. I was like, what else was he in?

And he's in a ton of stuff. And he's in, there's like an old film noir movie I've got that he's in that he's a little slimmer. But those, I mean, looking back, especially like the Adam 12s and the Drag Nets, those are really bad. It's bad on TV. But it's still, we watched it as a family.

And I have such wonderful, and that's what watching those old shows brings back to me. Now, some of them you watch, like All in the Family. Those are brilliant, and they still hold up. Yeah, surprisingly well-written stuff. So I don't look down my nose at things that are popular or entertaining.

I had Kiss posters here. Kiss was just big, dumb fun, and I loved it. Musically, it wasn't the Beatles. They wanted to be. It wasn't Pink Floyd. but it still mattered to me at that point in my life.

And so all of that being said. I, I, I love quirky, weird, independent things, but I also love mainstream broad playing things because they all have their role. And, you know, I have, I, I, I said something once and I'm, and I felt bad afterwards. I met this girl. She wanted me to sign.

She was a big charmed fan, and that was not a good experience to me, and I made some snide comment about Charmed, about working on it, and it's not like I sent her away in tears, but, you know, I kind of poo-pooed it, and then, and I thought, that's kind of a dick move of me, because that show meant a lot to her, you know, it meant a lot to 12-year-old her, and I talked, again, I talked about it, it's not like but I'm still thinking, Oh, what a piece of shit that was. Um, you know, but just because it wasn't to, to my taste or my liking. Um, and the experience was, that was when they were all at each other's throats. It wasn't, it wasn't just you. I feel like a lot of people on that show had some issues.

They were. Yeah. And, and Shannon bless her. She was, she was a very, let's just say a very unhappy person. Um, So but anyway, but that fan experience and that was at a con that I check myself.

I'm like, don't be a dick, dude. I'm speaking to myself. You know, that show mattered to that fan. So don't look down your nose at it. And so I learned a lesson from that.

And if now if there is occasionally there's something will come. Along and I'm like, no, I don't like this. I don't want to be a part of this. And I'll say no. Um, but if, if I say yes, then I'm committed.

I remember, you know, I've worked with actors that went early in. My career and I'll name him because he's just, I love the novel, The Firm, and they were going to be shooting in Memphis. And I was doing Rookie of the Year with Busey, with Gary Busey. Busey, exactly what his public persona is. He's still putting out videos.

My friend keeps sending them over going, look, look what he's doing now. Like he just makes crazy videos now. He was, he was never mean to me personally. When he got into Chicago, he met some musician friends of mine. He would go jam with them at the China club.

Like all my buddy Earl. So Earl was cool. Cause musician guys, but he was really kind of a dick to other people on, on the movie. And he didn't want to be there and made it obvious on rookie of the year. Um, But as the movie ended, it's like our last day.

And he said, somebody said you're a big fan of the firm. Oh, he asked me. He said, come to my trailer. I need to talk to you about something. So I'm going, OK.

So go ahead. He said, you're big. I said, yeah, man, I love that book. I've read it twice. And he said, yeah, I'm going to do the movie.

I'm actually going from here down. I said, yeah, I know. Man, I tried everything to get an audition. He goes, yeah, what's the book about? I'm like, huh?

He goes, look, I haven't read it. I went, you haven't read the book. You haven't read the script. I haven't read either of them. What's the story?

Wow. I'm like, you, you haven't even bothered to read the script and you're going next week to start work on it. And, and I vowed like, I'm not going to be that guy. I'm not going to be, um, you know, I've, I've taken jobs cause I needed the paycheck, but I'm like, if you hire me, you, you deserve the best of my attention because and the best that I can do with the job that you task me with. So I'm going to give it 100%.

I don't care if I'm playing in Park League softball or Major League Baseball. So those are what I picked up of like, well, I don't want to be like that. So I'm not going to be like that. Yeah, just at least be professional about it and do what you're there to do. But yeah, you can also kind of go above and beyond that when it's stuff that you're really invested in.

Yeah, I've only really encountered a few actors that were like that, that they were above the material. So, fuck them. That's the best advice, really. Well, I'm glad you brought up your current show, because that was kind of how I was going to let people, you know, send them off with the, they should go check it out, because I've, before I even knew this was coming together, I've been, I'm well in on season two, and have been from the beginning, and You know, I was watching Fire Country and it's fine. Ours is Sheriff Country.

They introduced me on Fire Country. Yeah, I was going to say. And then they spun us off. Yeah. I was watching Fire Country and it was all right.

But I so much prefer Sheriff Country. Like, I think there's just so much more to it. And it's just got such a good dynamic with the family that you guys have built. Well, thank you. And it's difficult, I will say, in their favor.

It's difficult because, okay, with a crime show, there's crime everywhere, all the time, every day, small town, big city, everywhere. In Fire Country, they got to have a fire in every show. That's what, after a while, became so crazy. I almost start blaming the guys. I'm like, everywhere you guys go, something's on fire.

Stop. So the premise alone paints them in a storytelling corner. It really does. But yeah, I like that you guys don't have that. You kind of just tell your story.

Genuinely, everybody in that cast are good people. And they're great actors. And like Morena, I love working with her. She's so good. She went to Juilliard.

Everybody on the show has actually had formal training. Yeah. But she's a wonderful actress. And we joke about, yeah, we both get to play out our own little personal psychodramas in some of those father-daughter scenes. Not with my daughter, but generations before me.

Generational trauma. Well, and Amanda's so good too. Like the relationship between you and she's playing your granddaughter and like that dynamic is just so good. And like, I know what wins you over. She was, well, the first scene we had was the big thing with the bees, you know, the setup where the money, you know, her boyfriend to steal that money.

So he gets stung by my bees, blah, blah, blah. But we were, Chad just really just met her. And we're chatting beforehand and she was talking about Marin on this. And again, we've all had formal training and she hasn't. And she said, you know, I got cast in Degrassi when I was in high school.

And it was kind of like, I'll try this. And she goes, and I got in it. And she goes, I've had acting classes, but I don't really have, you know, formal training. I'm like, yeah. Well, then we did that scene.

And when we finished the scene, as we're wrapping out, I leaned over to her. I went, remember the conversation we had this morning in the green room? Yeah. I said, you don't need it. That's what I was thinking.

As you said that, I was like, she hasn't? Because I'm like, she's so good. Don't go to formal training and let it spoil what you have going because you got it. Definitely. So, yeah, if people are not watching it, definitely check it out because I'm just really enjoying it.

It's a great show. Thank you. Yeah. Anything else you want to tell people to check out or look for you out there in the world? I don't...

Well, Hacks Season 5 is coming up, the final season. I did... three episodes of that um those are the only things that i they have in the can that. That aren't out yet so all right well definitely keep an eye out for you you are again you're in so many things over the years that yeah i've i've got plenty of other stuff we could talk about so you're welcome to come back anytime but thanks. Man well if you make your way over to sensi for horror hound look me. Up definitely And otherwise, thank you for coming along on this cinematic journey.

And to everybody else out there, thanks for listening. All right. Later. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown. Produced and edited by the Oddity Studios.

With music written and performed by Andrea Davidson. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.