Stocking Stuffers 8.9: Once Upon a Christmas (2000) with Keith Allison

Paramount Pictures would like to know if you believe in Santa Claus, Hello and welcome. The mood doesn't seem right this year, Your Santa, you are the mood because one family Santa fat faced, bad clothes, woke shave, but Mozer got dipped in sugar and dreams of funeral, doesn't even believe in Christmas? Did you see this? There have always been the one or two who don't like Christmas. I'm not so many names crossed off now the man in red is thinking of hanging up his boots.

I'm glad a wife and Christmas like everybody else. And if Christmas is to be saved, Santa's gonna need a little persuading. Dad. There must be some way for you to give this one more chance. What if I could make a family's name who's been crossed off the list reappear as it was.

Please, These mortals are a disaster. You're a new pair. I'm here to help. Isn't that just like my baby sister starring Kathy Ireland. We've got to make her understand that we don't want her here.

I know what you two are doing. She's crazy, Mary Donnelly Haskell My time is nice. John Dye, do you believe in Santa Claus? This could be serious? And Douglas Campbell as Santa Claus, everything will be all right.

It's not Christmas even Hawaiian is still time once upon a Christmas welcome back. We are here for yet another stocking stuffer and a retro, a classic of vintage, a twenty two year old movie. At that. I can't handle something like that on my own, and it takes a lot out of me. I needed to bring in somebody for this episode who has a very classic sense about them, somebody who can appreciate things of the past and you know, really find the light in them.

And that is, of course, the one and only Keith Allison. Keith welcome Yep, go no Hawaii bye. That's the episode right there. Oh, Keith, is wonderful to have you. You are a writer, a very very talented, witty person, and you have are not a stranger to the show.

We've had you on a year ago, two years ago? Are we counting the lockdown? What is time? What is time? We can just reverse it if we find a book about how to do that, like Kaffey Ireland does in this movie.

Um, but yes, you have heard Keith on the on the podcast before, and you will hear him again, including today where we talk about two thousand, year two thousand, once upon a Christmas. So I'm not the historian of Christmas movies that you are, but the two thousand this has to be like this is early cycle, right, oh? Completely? And I hearing film. Yeah, we like we're going through different you know, different streaming sites.

I like to try to find a variety for the show, so we're not doing the same Hallmark story over and over again. And I can't remember how I started. I think I was just looking at Amazon Prime because I hadn't watched anything on there yet, and this title comes up pretty quickly. I see the pedigree behind it. I see, Okay, I know Kathy Ireland, so there's somebody I know in the movie.

Not not personally, but you know, I've seen Alien from La who amongst us hasn't I bought her km art line for a while. And then I noticed the director is two more to Vax. I'm sure I'm saying his name wrong. A note to Cox. Never I've never said his name out loud for just that reason.

I mean, there's an accent over the second half of t COS so talk us to Coss Tocus, right, the director of The Gate and I'm mad Man, which we covered a few months ago, and during that said like, what's this guy up to? Like he did The Gate, he did I'm mad Man, Like, you know, good horror director, like an interesting point of view. Oh, he's just done Christmas and Hallmark movies for the last thirty years, and this is two thousand. I didn't realize it was two thousand until I started the movie and was like huh, and then pulled it up on IMDb. I must have not been wearing my glasses when I picked up, because I just did not realize.

I think I thought I probably saw it as like two thousand and eight and two thousand it is. It's not. The formula hadn't been crystallized. This was made for made for TV. It aired it initially, I think on the Pack's network.

It got shuffled around. It's since aired on Hallmark and ABC Family and all of those. But what is fascinating to me about this is that this is pre formula like this. I mean, there is a romance, but it takes a little while to even realize that's what this movie is doing. And yet it pretty much does hit every one of the points that we talk about, does it not?

It does, and I think you can you can still detect faint traces of his background in horror stuff that happens in this and some kind of like the more you dwell on it like disturbing. Although to me, the most disturbing thing is starting this movie up and seeing the logo for an actual movie studio. Yeah, the paramount stars come up, and it is It's weird, folks. It is very unsettling when that happens and the movie starts, and then it's even more unsettling, is it not. It's very strange.

I don't watch a lot of Christmas movies. I have a contentious relationship with him, but I live with someone who, a couple of years ago, during the pandemic, stuck at home, just started watching all of them. So I've had kind of a crash course in the past couple of years. And yeah, this one. There's a lot of strange ones.

They still they get it, but this one, like there's something sort of un you can't quite express the weirdness of it, but it's definitely there. It's I mean part of its cheapness is that it feels really budget. And look, it's it's the year two thousand, so it doesn't it was filmed for a different technology, if you will, like this was not meant to error on a flat screen, I don't think, because there's things like that, the lighting is weird, that the costuming is is horrific. It is quite Canadian. But yet it's not just that.

It's not just the way this movie was made, being like lawa budget. There's just some weird shit going on, is there not? Why don't we go through kind of a rough plot synopsis? Can you tell me what happens in this movie? So I can?

And this is so when I write about movies professionally, I don't take notes, but for this one I filled up a couple pages and partially just to work through. So so to kick things off, what I have is Santa upset by internet rolls, the year two thousand, Internet rolls quich Christmas yep, Yes, is going to go to Hawaii. It's over. Everyone's on the naughty list anyway, so who cares? So he has a good daughter, Kathy Ireland.

His name is Kristen kristin class and an evil daughter named Rudolpho r Rudolpho, which for me was really upsetting. I don't know why. I was just very very perturbed, imagining like Santa and Missus Claus having a child and saying, okay, we have our we have our first child. She's a daughter. It's a girl.

Let us name her something seasonal, um, Okay, we'll name her after the reindeer that got us to the hospital in time. We'll name her Rudolpho. And then like, yeah, that's nothing compared to when they they lash her up and make her work like a reindeer. But that's spoiler. I mean, yes, definitely a case of clearly you see who the favorite child is.

But then like what like two years later, they have another kid and they're like, Okay, what do we name this one? Kristen? Kristen, what's the most popular name this year? Kristin. Oh, yeah, we'll go with that.

Yeah. So anyway, Uh, Kristen wants to convince her dad that humanity is worth saving and we need Christmas. Uh. Dolpho is all too happy to have her dad retire. She wants to take over and turn Christmas into a gag gift holiday, which is not that far from what it is for a lot of people.

Anyway, Yeah, it didn't sound we're gonna pepper the world with whoopee cushions, And I was like, all right, but anyway, to save Christmas, Kristen has to journey from the North Pole and visit one of the families on the naughty lists and convince them to be good so that they go onto the nice lists. And then Santa will cancel or come back from He'll leave the White Lotus in order to go delivered a guest and and so and so. Then off she goes to Canada to try and help what I refer to as a g to light PG naughty family. Yeah that's appropriate. Yeah, the Morgan's the Morgans.

We have Dad, who is um, I'm gonna if I had to name him something, I'm just gonna name him business Dad, right, or I'm sorry I should have then that. Well, his first name is Business, his middle name is Deal. His last name is Dad business steal Dad because he says business steel about every other line of this movie. And he is widowed, so therefore, um, you know, work is really important and he's been neglecting his two shitty kids. Who are shitty but kind of awesome.

I kind of liked how shitty they were very Yeah, they're pretty low key shitty. Also like they're not that bad. Yeah, but it's a good it's a good time. She goes down there, she's there, Nanny assumes the role very quickly, and one of those cases where you're like, wow, these people are very responsible to just let this woman in their house, even though there's no evidence that she is actually an annie, and indeed she's not. At first, it is pretty tough, right, the kids are playing pranks on her, her because they're trying to get her away.

Um. So then I guess they had expelled and dad has a business deal that he has to go to so that he just takes everybody with him because um, he can't leave them at home alone. And along the way their car breaks down and they move into an abandoned um house. It is. It is one of the most well stocked abandoned cabins out in the middle of the woods.

I mean there's trees, there's lights, there beans a stellar full of food yea, yeah, which they immediately start eating. Don't even note. I mean I took it as like a survivalist who was living there and then died in the woods maybe and they're just like, whoa great, the oven is still hot, like not thinking to actually see, like, oh, does somebody actually live here? And there I was expecting Buffalo Bill from Silence, kind of like the guy from Wolf Creek just one day walk in and be like, the fuck was in my house? Uh?

Oh, well, that's that's the sequel that will write, because there is a sequel that there is twice upon a Christmas um so I'll assume that the third one would have been that story. So they live there for what seems like an awfully long time. Uh. And then let's see, there's a fire in the house. Kristen, Well, there's a very This is a very strangely paced fire, would you agree everything about this movie is strangely Yeah.

Yeah, it's a really again, a really casual sort of fire. Yeah. The biggest threat is that it's going to burn the treetopper, which was a fair which is like, you know, the mother's family treetopper. And so everybody's out of the house and then the little girl runs into the house and then the dad runs in the house to get her, and then Kathy Ireland runs at the house and then then Kathy Ireland runs out of the house. It's it's just a lot of like, you know something, you forget how important geography is in staging a film.

And it's something that as much as like the Conjuring as a movie doesn't work fully for me, but I have to always bring that up as a movie that is brilliantly laid out in terms of geography. You know where everything is, to the point to where when you hear a noise you look in the direction because you know where that noise is in that house. And in this movie, um, it is very confusing where anybody is at any given time and where the fire even is. And it doesn't matter much because it's the magic of the North Pole is that if you are what is it like, if you're a clause or if you are from the North Pole, you have this ability yeah if you're just if you're from the North Pole, And I do like, yeah, the geography is like the inside of the Overlook Hotel.

Like kids will wander off into the woods and like and then come up the basis and then they'll be like where are they? And then they'll look out the window and they're like three feet away. And yeah, as far as I can tell, the magic because because Christen Caause does have magic powers, she's immortal. Maybe she can teleport, Uh, she can stop time. Uh.

She doesn't use any of these really to help anyone very much, can you know, including the fact that they're stranded in the middle of the woods with no food, no winter close, no communications. Two thousands so there's only one self there was in this movie and it gets broken. Yeah. Uh. And and she she can teleport, but nah, yeah, let him, you know, let him brave it out a little bit.

Yeah. So I don't know. I don't the distribution of magic powers among the citizens in the North Pole, I don't know. Nothing in the North Pole makes sense. I mean, you've got Santa, who you know, starts the movie in his underwear and and and then gets dressed, but some how it looks even more undressed than underwear, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.

Santa do it like the other holidays get to live with it, and the and the Easter Bunny. We should say this movie began and my notes were, oh my god, we're watching the kids version of The Wicker Man because the opening shot is a limbo contest, and I just think of that, like, to me, the greatest thing of The Wicker Man, it is not the finale. It is that, um, how do you describe it? The when there when each character is dressed up in a costume and they're jumping. Yeah, it's the parade and it's like every time you think one of them might get be headed, and just the tension in that and like I really thought this horrific Easter Bunny was going to just rip his face off and eat Kathy Ireland.

I don't know it. It was terrifying. Yeah, it's I mean, the Easter Bunny is it's literally a store bought like grocery store costume. It's kind of if you've ever been to like the like from me, it was the sun Pet mall, which recently closed, Like the mall that wasn't really a mall, right, the mall that had like maybe that one good store and then every other store was constantly for rent and they brought into Easter money like that's this Easter Bunny. Yeah, it was not great.

Gave me flashbacks to the movie Santa Claus and the ice Cream Bunny, which if you've seen, you know, if you haven't seen, don't, don't rush out, not even for a fun time. Should you watch that movie? But yeah, the North Pole is weird the magic powers or because what is ultimately the trade off is she gives up her powers to save the kid from the smoke, or it's like, oh now she she hasn't ever powers, or she just doesn't have a connection to the North Pole anymore. It's very little Mermaid too. So yeah, so she to save the kid, she has to give up her immortality to transfer her life force from him, but she becomes just a regular woman, which I guess is good for the romantic angle.

I mean good thing hurt that she was named Kristen and not Radolpha, because that would have been a little hard. And also just for the hell of it. You get amnesia as well, so she won't remember anything about Santa or the North Pole or her best friend. It's very unless maybe, just maybe, if you really believe it'll come back to you. Do you think they made this movie knowing they were going to make a sequel.

I don't know. You know, yeah, I admit I haven't ventured into the sequel, so I don't know if they actually follow through with plot threads or just starting because this movie, by the way, ends with a ton of weird dangling plot threads. Yep, it ends like an old Kung Fu movie. But it's like you land the final blow on the villain and he goes flying back and then it just free go. Ye, there's no resolution or anything.

It ends like she saved the kid's life, but they've just burned down this stranger's home. Happy they're still stranded in the woods. They still have no car. Gives him a cell phone, but there I don't know if he hooked him up with service, right, he still has no business deal? Yeah, yeah, Here there's a whole other character who you know, his business partner slash possible romantic interest who he just leaves high and drawing, which is she's not a villain or anything.

She's just trying to make a living with weirdo that she's going into business with. So as far as I like, she goes off on her own completes. Maybe she completes the business deal and this family is still huddled by this burning cabin. I will say I the sequel started playing right after this movie ended, so I watched about the first like five minutes and then I had to go. And the way it started was like presumably one year later and Kristen was like living with the family, and it seemed that I first of thought it opens with the dad proposing to her, and but it seems as if it's one year later, so it means that, like was she just living at the house as his nanny slash lover?

Like what is the payment structure going on? Just there's a lot of questions about ethics. Again, this keeps coming up about when you have romantic relationships, but there is also a you know, commerce element to them. Whatever flows your boat. But I don't know, it just feels like somebody is getting screwed, not necessarily literally Yeah, and you're a magical being with absolutely no past like Kristin Claus, Like what is the status of your kid ninety nine?

Oh boy? Yeah? And also like you're Kathy Ireland and you're really hot and you have this this is the life you've chosen, you know, right, not judging, but she could have done better. I'm gonna say, Yeah, I wonder because at the end of this movie, I feel like no one learned a lesson. They talk about lesson, Like the family is supposed to like the dad's supposed to be more present for his kids, and yet he has this revelation like four times they talk about it, and then after every time he has this revelation, like his his troubled son will run off into the woods, has a light by himself, and it's like, should I go after him?

Nash, Now he needs to think about him then himself. He remains. The kids are jerks right up and end, and yeah, like they try and save each other from a fire, but like that's not really sustainable goodness, you know that because eventually you're not going to save somebody from a fire. Kathey, Ireland only has one magical life to give. Yeah, so yeah, you know there's plenty of story left.

Indeed, so yeah that they did continue. So let's lead that into our list. So going into the main tropes of these movies. Number one is the female lead need of a lesson, or sometimes she is the female lead who if she is wonderful. Instead she is teaching the lesson, And I would argue that we have the latter in this case.

Would you agree? Oh? Definitely? Yeah? Um, something I found odd?

Uh Kristen Um, did you notice some of the jewelry she wore? I didn't. Okay, she wears a necklace. Um, I'm guessing it's from the Caffe Ireland Kame Art collection. It is a like diamond cross.

Would she again opens up a lot of doors of confusion for like is like Santa Claus Christian does the North Pole like celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ? How does that? Then? How does that food hull Santa? I don't know that.

I don't know why that bugged me so much, but it really did. You know? There was a bearded old man at the North Pole, which I was assuming it was Father Time, but maybe it was Jesus. Oh, maybe it was God. God hangs out with the Eastern money.

They played poker on Thurstus. Yeah, I guess. Also it's one of those things that, um where some of the year two thousand, pre cozy Cardigan Christmas rhythm shows up because you don't some of the movies will be a little Jesus e but usually not on the main networks. Typically that's like the UP Network or now the stupid Candice Cameron one. Like, usually these movies don't want to lean into any religion.

Like that they will sing Silent Night and there might be a manger, but they are very cautious about like leaning too far into something that ven if you know, oh we're not you know, making these for the atheists, but the really hardcore Christian might be mad that we're doing the major wrong. So you just don't see it that oftense. So it was just really jarring to see it, like in full view on her neck. How did you like Kathy Ireland in this movie? I thought she was pleasant.

Yeah, I mean she's not a great actress, but she's not a bad actress. I thought she had in charisma. She was and I quote myself aggressively kind like really far beyond yeah how kind anyone should be. But I actually I thought she was especially compared to the dad, you know, a perfectly charming lead. Yeah.

I was surprised by how kind of pleasantly she fit in this role and in this universe, because it made me surprised to watch and think, like, I'm surprised she hasn't done more of these movies just because she really like, I mean, she's Kathy Ireland. She looks great, she's got and camera, but she does hold herself well in this and I mean most of the time she is acting against brick walls, and she is still pretty charming. But I mean I had I didn't know. I knew of Kathy Ireland from Ellen in La and um a little bit annoying that she like has quite a business empire, but like, holy shit, does she have a business empire? She apparently is a billionaire like she like she started with like that small kmart line and it turned into now like this absoluted is in every store she does furniture like she has figured out a way to make quite a living for herself.

So good on ya, Kathy. So that I don't I guess she was sort of like the the second generation of supermodels, yeah, after sheryld Tis, but that generation, her and Cindy Crawford and Heidi Klum, they all turns out had quite a bit of business since they were smart about it very much, are hearty all of them. Well, Kathy Ireland, she's not so much in the public eye now as far as I know, but they've they've remained relevant in various ways. Yeah, they which I mean, he is the smart thing to do, and I think you see that a lot now with like younger celebrities in different ways where immediately as soon as they turned twenty one, they're like, Okay, I'm gonna produce. I'm not just gonna act.

Okay, I'm gonna find a company to invest in. Like and for models, I mean for years it was probably you know, the truth about that industry was you have a shelf life and by the time you're twenty seven, you better start, you know, finding a rich husband or something to invest in. And I think Kathy Ireland, I don't know that she was the first, but she was one of the most prominent to be really aggressive about learning what she could do and what she both what she could put her name on, but also like what was the right industry, what was the right market? And um, I think like it's I was reading up on her because I'm like, she she a good one or a bad one. Um, apparently like she some of her politics aren't great, but also like she has done a lot of philanthropy, so it's one of those knixed bags.

But hey, as as a businesswoman, I give my respect to her, So we'll leave it at that. Yeah. Uh, Now number two is our setting a big, bad city, charming small town magical winter wonderland. Um, well, we also have like the wilderness of this house. But I think more importantly we need to you know, we've said a lot about it, but that magical winter wonderland.

Man, wow, magical or disturbing winter wonderland? Eying? Yeah, north Pole slash Summer's Aisles. How I wrote it, it's, uh, the lot going on, A lot going on there, and it's not. It's a creepiness that I don't It may strike you immediately, but it might not, but it will, it will sort of grow on.

You'll lie awake at night yep, and you're like, wait what Yeah. Yeah, And it's not so much a small town as his is, just a Canadian suburban suburb. Yeah. Oh wait, I'm sorry Denver. What weren't they in Denver?

Sure? Oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I think you meant to say, I'm sorry. Weren't they in Denver? Yes?

Now Number three is our Bland love interest. And in this case we get a combination because normally we have either poor little rich boy or widow dad, who you know has a soul and a heart and works in his hands. In this case, you get widow dad who sort of is the poor little rich boy kind of thing. He needs to learn a lesson. He's obsessed with business.

He's got business deals, he's got business deals. He owns a cell phone, which in the year two thousand was a pretty big deal. Well, and god, I don't know, like I don't like them, Like I just didn't like the idea that he was immediately kind of trying to seduce the nanny. Yeah, right, like their first sort of like romantic moment, like they have been sleeping, they've been squatting in this you know, abandoned home, and like she wakes up and he like he's looking at her in that like creepy way that men look at women, and just like what is it? He's like, oh, I shouldn't say it's like what what?

What? What is the line? It's something like, um like, oh, you're just so beautiful when you sleep or something. I'm like, look, yeah, I could go on a twenty minute rant about the I was just watching you sleep that everyone so many movies and screenwriters seem to think it was romantic, and it's it's really not. I mean, look, hey, if it's between you and your signifficant other, if that's your thing.

That's cool. But now I was watching you sleep and that seapap just the way it moves up and down on your face and I can see the imprint. It's it's digging into your lip. Yeah, I mean that's my husband and I say that to each other every morning. So now number four is the montage which later movies would go on to use a lot more.

In this one, not so many, did you clock any I don't recall any montages. No, yeah. The only one that I would sort of put in that group is there is because it and it goes on forever. Because again, it also felt like they were patting the running time. Uh, there is a flashback to this family's last happy Christmas, right Oh yeah, yeah.

It's like foggy lighting and there's no speaking. It's like music and everybody is smiling and it's like I'm wrapping presents. So I guess that quality it's more foggy flashback. But that's kind of the best we can do. Now.

Number five dead parents or dead wife? Oh yeah, oh yeah, dead mom. Is there even a picture of this woman? I feel like there was a picture somewhere, but yeah, dead mom and a dead inside dead yes, yes, there was a picture of her, because I thought this was weird. Every woman in this movie except for Kristen is blonde, blonde, blonde, including the picture of the mother.

So I wondered, I'm like, oh, is that the thing, because like it seems like blonde was like the evil color, except it was also the mother. Yeah, that seemed to be just in general the color of Christmas movies for a very long time. That's very true. Yeah. Uh.

Now number six, is there a sassy side kick? I would argue, we of two who did you call out as a sassy side kick? Well, the Christen Claus's best friend, the tooth Fairy. Oh my gosh, this tooth Fairy. Yeah, who you know drifts between sassy and just sort of weirdly earnest and melancholy.

Uh. And she's got a lot of shit going on, definitely, yeah. Yeah, and again hangs out with Santa Claus. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean you would recognize this woman if Liz Torres is the actress. She has been around forever or she's been in a million things, um, Christian for you. And I'm like trying to figure it out. I'm trying to google it and I can't find it was is it her like, does she have a list or was it a character choice? I don't know.

I wonder that also, and I shouldn't. I couldn't find anything, but I think maybe just someone thought it would be hilarious for the like you could make had lisp. I mean, if you have weird teeth sometimes like that does compromise your ability to make ass sounds. I know I grew up that way, but it's really she really leans into it to where like I was glad I had the subtitles on, Yeah, yeah, we have another there was a possible a possible second sassy side kick. Who would you say that was?

I thought, I'm just gonna call I don't know what the character names. I'm gonna call him uncle Buck because that's what he felt like. I meant to mention, Yeah, weird the Swingers era that although he and is his like bowling show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's the dad's brother. No, it's not the dad's brother.

It's the dad's brother in law. Right, he was the mother's brother. And like he doesn't have a job. Yeah, he's kind of the lovable, the lovable loser of he's like having a third child every time he was on screen, I was sort of annoyed that it wasn't Patton Oswald playing him. Yeah, it's a weird like you're kind of supposed to like him, I guess, because he's pleasant, except the entire time you're just thinking like, no, but either you're living off this guy who has a lot of business deals and really could use your support around the house, and you're clearly doing a terrible job helping to raise these kids who are awful, and you also don't have an actual job.

So what Like I was when when the dad's like, by the way, after the holidays, you're out of here, I'm evicting you. I was on the dad's side. Yeah, that was not an unreasonable man like I. You know, I'm not the most mature or responsible adult in the world, but even I was like, my guy, come off, dude, dude. Now number seven is our evil.

Now here's what's interesting, Okay, Number seven is really the villain character. Now some movies, in most movies, it's one of two things. It's either the evil male boss or the very like business driven career woman. And I feel like in the older movies it was a woman quite often the villain was a female. I think that has changed and it doesn't come up as much.

But in this movie, I would argue, we have one major villain, one kind of minor villain, and both are women. Yeah. Rudolpha obviously fulfills that. She's kind of a driven career woman, like she wants to take over Santa's operation. She's got plans, you know, had a coach, she made a website, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I want to I want to talk about the forward the forward thinking nature of this film in the how to destroy somebody just you know, make fun of them on social media.

Yeah, but her evil schemes, I mean again, they were sort of a light PG evil scheme, like it's literally whippy whippy because ships. Yeah, at least until yeah, it hardly seemed worthy of enslavement. Watching her to like a bit and bridle and making her pull him around it made me very uncomfortable and I was shocked too that. Um, maybe I just don't know the rules about this. I thought you really couldn't cite Rudolph in anything because that was an owned property and if you, like when you were a kid, um that like Christmas decorations, nobody people that had like the ray deer on their lawn didn't have Rudolph because stores didn't or you know, companies in producing them in China didn't make Rudolph because Rudolph is an owned property and you were violating copy right if you use this image.

Now, this movie has a Rudolf aside from her name, Like there is a reindeer with a red nose. I thought they called him Rudolf. I believe they. Yeah, they expressively refer to him as Rudolph. And also like now Rudolph has become a jerk awesomes a dick in this movie.

I kind of liked that aspect of it. I mean, you know, the entire story of Rudolph is if you're weird, everyone will pick on you and hate you until they need something from you, and then then you have all the power. It's a little bit like Inselly, isn't it. Yeah. That was something my scester used to do with her kids, was they always made sure like they didn't leave cookies for rudolfh Like she would leave cookies for like all the eight other reindeers.

She's like, everybody leaves cookies Rudolf. So we're gonna do it the other reindeer, because you know, they were all like I'm sure like blitz In like within that year was like, dude, Rudolph, I just want to say, I'm really sorry. I was jerk. I went along with it, and I just regret how I acted. And the Rudolf was probably like, yeah, it's cool man.

Uh and then like pulled his pants down or something. You know, like that's kind of the way I see Rudolf, like you probably is an asshole. It's one of those you, right, the when you're when you're bullied, you either you either develop empathy for others and become good or you then turn into a bully. And this version of Rudolph definitely turned in definitely Yeah. And like there was only like three reindeer, so I also like to think that Rudolf killed the others.

So then you also have um we mentioned her what was a character's name was Harley. So in the beginning of this movie, Bill is like ready to propose to this woman, right or like he's already proposed to her. They talk about getting married. It's his business partner and his girlfriend, and um then he just leaves the business feel right, he essentially doesn't make it on time, and she calls him and he's like, yeah, well I have my family now. She's like, yeah, but for the last like five years of our business, you haven't had a family.

Now. You can't just change your mind at the last minute. And I mean, I'm sorry, but asshole. Yeah, I mean yeah, right. For that character to work, it's like you really got to lay on the jerk, like, uh, make her you know however, yeah, like have her I don't know, like really like yeah, really insensitive.

Yeah, but this woman like she she seems to love this dope. Uh. She works really hard at the business. Uh, potentially harder than he does. She tries to make nice with the kids.

Yeah, she tries. Yeah, and then he's like, welcome to Dumbsville, baby, yeah, and leaves her and doesn't even tell her he leaves her, right, He's like, oh, I don't know, the cellphone got broken, but he explain himself, so smoothe Harley Jones. Yeah, let's see now Number eight is slapstick? Uh any high jinks that you caught and found amusing. I can't remember any specific.

I mean the kids both, you know, go through a period of prank pulling to drive Kristen class away. Yep. There's one gag that I actually really thought was like, oh, that's clever. And it was even like stage funny where the like gym teacher, like this guy like walks in because the kid's getting in trouble and just he's like a big gym teachery guy, and he blows a whistle and at first he think he's just blown the whistle at the kid, and then the principal walks in and you realize, oh, no, he glued the whistle. He put glue on the whistle and now it's stuck to the teacher's mouth.

I thought that was a good gag, and I'm like, you know, kid, that's clever. You can go places with that. Yeah. I you know the comedy in this movie, and it it has quite a bit. It wasn't always funny, but it tried, but it rarely was like cringe worthy or I rolling it was.

Yeah, there's a little bit of ice skating hijinks um where if there's a bit of like a whoa, whoa, whoa, somebody's falling and that kind of thing. But again it's you expected to hear. Number nine of the funny joke in that is that the dad is whoa whoa whoe. But like, but Kristen classes out there doing like Olympic level. She is a clause.

They are naturally able to do double axles. Uh number nine or sage old person. Um, you know, like we have Santa Clause and we have people that are immortal, so they're they're very old. Um. I guess Santa gives her advice.

It's not so much advice. He kind of gives some advice in the end, but like for the most part, I mean, like Santa goes through about three minutes of being dejected about this website about how much Santa sucks, but then once he makes his decision, he is all in. Then yeah, Christmas, I'm going to Hawaiian and Missus Claus, who you would think would be like the steady in hand or like, let's think about this, Chris Kringle. She's like, noah, perfect, I just got a new bikini, can't wait to try it out, which I kind of respect. And that leads us to Santa Claus number ten.

And obviously we have a Santa Claus, a very thin skinned Santa. Can you imagine Santa in the actual like Twitter, Reddit age, if this is how sad he gets. Yeah, and that's what I mentioned earlier. It is somewhat forward thinking. So two thousand, year two thousand, we've sort of the Internet has entered public consciousness, but it's still like Amazon still just kind of getting off the ground, Like we're still doing chat rooms and Aol for the most part.

I don't think Twitter's around, no, not yet. I mean Space might have started, but nobody knew about it yet. Yeah. So the fact that that part of this movie revolves around a website that is set up too for people just to shit talk Santa Claus is kind of forward. Yeah, but it also means that like back then, yeah, you know on Twitter, right and and even Facebook, Uh, you're you know, you're assaulted with the negativity a lot, even if you try to cultivate it's just there.

But back then, like you had to actively go and set up account an account and log in and and then read the message board. Uh yeah, so Santa was looking for it, Yeah, Santa he was. He was like asked jeezing about himself all the time. Definitely. I think he already had bought the tickets to Hawaii and he was just he was looking for any excuse.

Oh God, can you imagine like this Santa today would like, is somebody going to make an Elon Musk version of the story? That is what I am asking. Yeah, sad answer is probably it means in production at you know, at lifetime right now. Uh, yeah, we have a Santa, but he do we But but do we deserve that Santa? I'm kind of it's fair, all right, So let's see the bonus around.

The first thing is our public domain holiday songs. And again I feel like this movie didn't quite understand what it had in like look type or you don't have to pay for music, you just have to pull up the public domain files. Yeah, it's no one's after you for Silent Night, Yeah, I mean maybe they'll come after you for yeah, for Rudolphs that don't do that. Noh nobody. But yeah, there were no no Christmas carols older really Yeah, there's a hop on the housetop at one point, but no jingle bell roth on the radio.

No, there was an abundance of jaunty Christmas movie music, which I have learned, you know, in the twenty two nearly twenty three years since this movie was made had changed all that much. Yes, because the all I don't think anything new went into public domain. Uh. And just in terms of style, you're right, it is the sprinkle sound effects galore in this movie. Uh, and all the same like not quite tubais, but it's the same.

You could take the soundtrack and play it like with your eyes closed, and you would and I would give you a list of movies and say which one do you think it came from? And you would guess all of them may be right. And the movie the closing credits had a song that I'm like, wait, this is a real song. It was the it must have been the Missletoe. Hmm.

If I've heard that song, I think Barbara Streisand is a cover of that song. So again, like that's where their budget went. It didn't go to the Easter Bunning costume. It went to music. Yeah.

Yeah, it's since since you invoked the name of summer Isle, the north Pole really could have used uh some good old fashioned Wickerman style like folk. Yeah, folk music. Yeah. Uh, you know the winter version of Summer is a Coming and you know, or or the end could have just used uh you know then looking off into the woods and going well, there's a fire there, and don't worry you're as you can always jump on a It's not dangerous to jump over a fire if you're naked. Let it Let it end, you know, like you know the last scene in in the Witch or kill List.

Yeah, yeah, what a missed opportunity. Okay, the director's cut coming for the twenty fifth anniversary, so watch out for it in two years. So secret family recipe. There is a mention of mother's special pancakes, but I don't think we actually see them. Yeah, and I'm not sure how special pancakes can be.

Well, no, pancakes can be pretty special. But do you make pancakes. I don't have gritta grittle, so I really don't. I make like oven pancakes, not pancakes. I being a full New Yorker now after many decades here, I go out and I let professionals, professionals make pancakes for me or my dad.

He makes good pancakes. Nice. You gotta get his secret recipe. It's the this quick squeeze bottle. Nice, nice good stuff.

Sorry, let's see that's right. And now we're now that we know the secret, we must die and get sent to the North Bowl. Number three are small business in danger. Now, I would argue we have a He specifically says, I started this business with my partner. You know, we left the firm to start our own business.

So like, this is a small business that he has these meetings for. Yeah, I mean it's you know, ad agency, independent ad agency. I guess that counts as a small business. It's not a you know, yeah he got or a hardware store or but hey, it's still one or two people owning a business and trying to make it work and failing miserably. Based on this movie, again a prescient, very prescient of the movie.

They're they're kind of work from home, although he goes out a lot. But I don't know where he's going. They don't have an office when they couldn't afford yells, yeah, remote worker, he can work from anyways, he had a cell phone. Let's see number four, product placement. Nothing I caught in this one.

Number five a cloying child. So we talked a little bit about these kids. They're wonderfully shitty kids. I kind of liked him. Yeah, I mean the girl, she's not cloyed, she's he's a little more earnest than the brother.

And you know the brother is the real bad seed because he has that late nineties early two thousand spike ye the middle brother and knocko middle haircut. Yeah. And this guy, I'm looking him up like he's actively worked, because he looked familiar and I meant to see if I knew him for anything. He is again like he's been working since this movie. But oh final this, Oh, oh, oh my god, oh my god.

I am going to blow my own mind right now. I know what I know. This kid from this Kid is one of my favorite film characters of all time. In a scene that my husband and I reference probably once a week, this kid actor's name is oh, where do you go? Where do you go?

There? He is um something. James Kirk Okay, not not James C. Kirk, but James Kirk. James Kirk is in Final Destination two, Keith, Have you seen Final Destination Too?

I have not, Oh, the second best Final Destination film after Part five. In Final Destination Too, he plays a character named Tim. And it is very clear when you watch this movie that the character of Tim was supposed to be much younger and somebody, perhaps the studio, perhaps a director, perhaps a producer said, you know what, I get the idea of having like a little kid in danger, but we are going to kill this guy in a really ridiculous way where we are going to have him walk in a street and a giant piece of glass falls on him and splats his entire body everywhere. I don't think we can do that for like a ten year old, So instead they just they cast an older actor, but they don't change the writing of him at all, so he's kind of playing it as a man child and it's wonderful.

And the way this guy dies is like he's walking on the street with his mother and the kid in this movie, like I gathered he was supposed to be like fifteen. Maybe we're like told to do this stuff. But there's a great my favorite moment. I quote this line once a week where he is just walking outside and he looks and he's he's a whole bunch of birds, like pigeons, just on the ground, and he points at them and goes pigeons and then like runs after the birds, and then the glass falls and kills him horribly. Um but whenever, like I'm at a loss for words, I know, I'm like stumbling and I can't find the right word.

I just shout like pigeons. And that's my way of like getting past something. So best character in the movie, best character in any movie. This kid should have won an Oscar for everything in the year two thousand. Well look at you?

Once upon a Christmas given us ah Man. Yeah, yeah this who knew that? This movie started? My favorite young actor? Who knew?

That's funny that he's an older actor playing a younger kid in Final Destination because in this movie, I feel like he's supposed to be an older kid. Who again, like, why don't do like he's a teenager right? Like I thought they said he was twelve, But I don't know if I made that up. Like this movie, and I find this in a lot of Christmas they don't seem to know at what age kids stopped believing in Santa Claw. I mean, this kid's like in eighth grade, possibly a freshman in high school, and he spins his days logging on to a chat board to just to shit talk Santa Claus.

And it's like in some scenes he believed in Santa and some scenes he doesn't. So I don't maybe yeah, he's the same character. Oh my God in my dream and in my dreams he is like, yeah, he's just like, I don't like aging backwards like Merlin's or something. Yeah, that's like a little Benjamin Button situation here. Oh man, Like you know what, I take everything bad I said about this movie back once greatest movie of the year two thousand.

I mean the director does have a background in horror. Huh yeah, yeah, oh boy, All right, let's see Number six is a character with a holiday theme name and obviously Rudolpha and Kristen clause. It really bothers me. Number seven. Finding the perfect tree an oft plot point in these movies.

Uh, do we get any kind of tree stuff going on here? They do. They have a finding a tree scene in their h the murder cabin that they camp out in, but that seems more like it's about the perfect tree topper. Yes, well, there is a tree earlier in the movie, right, it's the thing that drives Christen away. Yeah, trees because because a Christmas tree killed his wife.

Yeah, they don't say it in the movie, but that's kind of what I gathered from. I mean, yeah, they never really explain them how the wife dies, right, I mean that has to be a Christmas tree makes sense? Yeah, yeah, and then let's see number eight ridiculously elaborate holiday cocktails. I don't think there's any drinking of any kind in this movie, but empty coffee cups acting. I again, maybe it's just that this movie is early in the cycle and they didn't understand that, um, you don't have to pay for coffee, like you could just have empty coffee cups.

But Kathy Ireland, like bitch knows how to hold a cup. Yeah, yeah, that's funny that. Actually. I was like, huh, good cup acting. Yeah, yeah, it's a rarity in these movies.

But she she pulls it off. Let's see actors trying hard to not actually eat on camera now in this case, like they kind of deliberately don't let characters eat right, like at one point, like they're in the cabin and they're starving to death is where I took it. But because the kids have an assholes, Kathy Ireland's like, no, I'm eating my beans and you don't get to have any, And the kids are like, but I haven't eaten in five days. She's like, well you should have believed in Sannah. You know, it's it's a if they literally had to walk ten feet to just get the beans themselves, and the kids are like, nah, well, like they start doing that and then they end up, you know, in the hedge maze.

So you gotta forgive them that, right, because to go, Kathy Ireland does have to learn a lesson, and the lesson is to be meaner to peas, which, in fairness, isn't it like that is something a lot of people need to know, right, I agree? I agree? Uh, number eleven canadianisms. I don't know, did you think this is filmed in Canada? I never would have guessed.

No, no, no doubt A bud definitely Denver. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I don't know, there's something about the the spiky kid haircut with like a kind of oversized fax leather jacket, which to me just screams Canadian production. Yeah yeah, I'm with you. And then last is the Warm Weather Watch. I mean, did you think they were cold in this movie?

I not only were they not cold at home when they were outside freezing to death, they didn't really seem that cold either. They don't even like you know, I think half the time they don't even put jackets on, and like then ain't got worried because I'm like, wait, Canada is cold? Or are like, I'm worried that the actors actually are cold because they are very lightly dressed. But I guess if you film in July, you're okay, yeah, So that's Once upon a Christmas? Keith do you recommend this movie?

Who? Do you recommend it too? So here's the thing, Um, I kind of if you're if you're wanting to watch a pretty harmless Christmas movie, if you've got an undemanding kid, or you are yourself somewhat undemanding, or just want something on the background, it is so again aggressively okay. Uh that that. I think it's fine, and it has the benefit of me having watched it after my partner had watched another Christmas movie, which I'm going to call out by name, imperfect Christmas Wish.

I don't know that one. It's relatively new. It was on TV. I wanted to burn my entire it was so bad and so and this film Once upon a Christmas. It's fine, it's fine.

I'm not going to watch it again. You know, I may not watch the sequel unless we do this again next year. But just to follow up, just to see where it goes. There's definitely worst crimes have been committed in the name of Christmas movies than Yeah, i'd agree, And in some ways, the weirdness of it, the fact that it's the year two thousand, the fact that you have this like very uncomfortable, disturbing North Pole sequence makes it fairly interesting. Cathy Ireland, I think that is fun to watch in this like she keeps it interesting and pleasant.

It's one of the only movies I've seen in a long time that has essentially star wipes for transitions, which made me really excited. And it's it's weird enough where if you're looking, like if you're at that point where you're looking on the corners and you're trying to find, like, I don't know, let me find some of the weirder shit or the stuff that's a little bit different. It isn't doesn't go that far, but there's enough in it that it's it entertained me. Now, would it have entertained me if I wasn't sitting here taking notes in order to talk about it, I can't say that it would have, but it's satisfied my purpose. I'd say, yeah, I don't know if it would have entertained me, but it wouldn't have angered me.

Yeah, which you run the risk of with this genre. Oh do you does one? Ever? Now? Obviously I have to check out on Perfect Christmas Wish because I'm was Imperfect Christmas Wish?

That was it? Imperfect Christmas Wish. It's got some of the worst singing in it that I've ever heard from someone who the character is supposed to be a great singer. Okay, yeah, I mean, don't say I didn't warn you. I know, but now that forward, damn it, it just makes me curious.

Well, I'll report back if I get to it now, Keith. When you are not um, you know, doing all night marathons of once and twice on a Christmas? What are you up to? Where can people find you? What should they read of?

Viewers? Please tell us everything. When I'm not watching Once Upon a Christmas, I'm rewatching Miami Vice, the TV series, which has aged remarkably well. I think I've never seen an episode save for the occasional butt slap here and there. Well, I mean, come on, who amongst us doesn't still do a good LA.

So I write reviews and sort of pop culte your commentary for a site called Suburban Pagans Suburban Pagans dot com. I also just launched a newsletter so Suburban Pagans dot substat dot com, which is great stuff. Thank you. Subscribe. Now you're about to get a huge blast of classics knowledge about Greek Greek mythology.

Love it, among other things. Um. I have a book out called Cocktails and Capers, which you can get on Amazon or Barnes and Noble and people. I recommend the hard copy because there's recipes in there. There are there are recipes.

Yes, there is no ebook. I've never figured out how to turn the particular layout of it into an ebook, but it's out there for all your your Christmas gift giving needs. Yeah, I can highly recommend it. I enjoy it thoroughly, and it's it's on my bookshelf. Thank you.

Every time I open it up, it's a surprise to me because I've forgotten what's in it. Um And uh, that's because you are actually part clause and you don't remember. But you did give up your memory and immortality in order to, you know, save that business man from that fire. Yes, to save some shitty little kid because he had a fate in front of him, Keith, if you had not saved that kid, we would not have had the greatest sequence of all time in Finals and Nation too true. Yeah, and finally, I'll just throw this one out there.

Aero Video has a box set called Gothic Fantastico. I do an audio video essay on it for a movie about Edgar Allan Poe and a movie called The Blancheville Monster. Uh So, pick it up if you want to give a gift, or don't pick it up. I already got paid, but not pick it up. Pick it up, do your part.

Pick it up people, all right, how wonderful with that? I Am going to sprinkle some some magic Cafe Ireland dust and star wipe us away. Mary, Chris, guarantee you no one in the world has talked in this long about this movie. Maybe like thy boring Kathy at their first like sit down like script reading, but probably not. You're right.

They probably like read half of it. They're like, we got the gist of it. Okay, great, let's go have little cupcakes. And then that was the day. All right, I've got whoopee cushions to deliver.

Get on that, Oh, Kathie, Oh, Kathy, my wild iron lassie or not just an island to me? Thank you? They're sparkling, green eyes and skin, alabastard, you've stolen my heart to see. Oh Kathy, who squeaks with a voice of an angel. I don't think you're so big a borne.

I'd like to come over and roll in your clover and kiss your blarney. Stolen, no improvising, Sorry, I was just going with my feelings. You're big moorsh Let's just skip to the chorus. Okay, Kathy, Kathy, myself lassie? Are you to the end of time?

All predictable, isn't it? Nelson, come, I just do your part, okay? Oh no in the voice, Oh mikey, Oh mikey, it's you that I like you. You're a bitch and green with those baby blue things and the stuff that you wear, and your shoes are really choices. Sorry, Mike, Mike gets me Tom Mike.

No, No, Mike, Mike, Tim Here my Tim Mike. The chorus, what a crazy Oh Kathy, Kathy, you maybe Dathy. I will love you till the end of time. Oh Hathy, come back, youths only for you that I fly? Oh make all die?

For those sims. How obvirt movie side side