Cliffhanger

Weird, weir. So I have a confession to make. I haven't seen a whole lot of Sylvester Stallone movies. And by a lot, I mean I've never seen Rocky. I've never seen Rocky two or three or four.

I've seen Creed. But yeah, this month is all about Sylvester Stallone movies because I hadn't seen any at all. So let's just let's just out him at the beginning of the podcast. This is out of At the beginning of the podcast, I guess, but this is like the East Alone action movie other than Rambo. Mike's making a face like that's not the case I thought it was.

I was under the impression it was not. Really, this is kind of I would say, it's not minor Stallone, but it's not one that gets talked about. It's not Cobra, you know that's fair. I've ever seen Pantheon. It's not over the top.

Oh yeah, where he's a trucker who arm wrestles. Yes, but I would say that Cliffinger's probably one of his most solid films. Yeah, I would, I would, I would. I would somewhat agree. I mean, I think we're gonna have a lot to talk about because it's a it's kind of a weird movie.

And by kind of a weird movie, I would say that sometimes I was having a hard time figuring out what was going on, only because a lot of the sets in the movie seem to just look the same over and over and over again. There's a lot of cliffs and people falling off of cliffs. And on this episode of the Culture Cast, we're back after a after a month of July that was all fun and all smiles, everybody, Yahoo, We're back for August to talk about Sylvester Saloon movies. And we are kicking it off with Cliffhanger from nineteen ninety three, and I'm joined by my two good friends all the way from the Projection Booth podcast. He is the host of the best movie podcast on the Internet, Mike White in.

A minute, I'll be dead, Hang you will always be an asshole. And all the way from Flick Attack. Rod Law, wrong answer, motherfucker, I'm gonna. Treat you bitch right. That was my favorite.

Oh boy, oh my god. The actual politics of the early nineties, folks. Hey baby, yes, that's right. On this episode of the Culture Cast, we are taking a look at our first Stallone movie of the month with nineteen ninety three's cliff Hanger. Mathieson has been transferred from the Denver office to Frisco and as a professional courtesy between offices, I was asking if you.

Could hit you a ride. Got plenty of room, You're glad to accommodate you. We's got to call it. Five climbers to train off clumb left. I haven't climbed the months.

You just lose the feel. Maybe you mean the nerve. Where's the helicopter? What the hell is going on? What are your names?

Tucker and Walker? Tucker and Walker were missing three bags? What's in them? Not to your fucking business? Fast?

Where is the money? So? The film is directed by Rennie Harlin, based on a screenplay by Michael France and Sylvester Stallone, with a story by Michael Frantz based on a premise by John long Boy. It's a lot of qualifiers here stars Sylvester Stallone, British John Lithgow, Michael Rooker, Janine Turner, Leon Robinson, Paul Winfield and Ralph Waite. And it's all about Sylvester Stallone playing a mountain ranger.

Mountain rescue ranger who loses a woman at the beginning of the movie, which was a scene I had only ever seen an ace Ventura when nature calls, because that's how that movie opens, is with a parody of Cliffhanger, of all things, almost a shot for shot parody. And then after Stallone loses his friend's girlfriend, he goes into I guess seclusion, and then he's brought back in to help what he thinks are people trapped on a mountain, but it turns out it's robbers who have stolen money unmarked one thousand dollars bills and it was a heist gone awry, and now the money is in the mountains and they have to go and save the people. Question Mark, there's a lot going on. We'll talk about it, but I'm gonna kick it too.

Rod Lot first, Rod, first time he saw this movie, What did you think? Then? Watching it out for the culture guest, What do you think now? I saw it opening weekend in ninety three. I was really not a Stallone fan at the time.

I mean as a kid, you know, Rocky was like I think from my generation, like our first exposure to Sevester Stunn, at least our first understanding of who he was and loved him then, but by the time Cliffhanger had come out, he had gone through a lot of ups and downs, more downs and ups. This was like the start of his comeback, at least the first comeback. If I recall, I really liked it then. I remember buying it on VHS when it came out and liking it again then hadn't seen it since then, so it's been a long time and I still like it. It's not as good as I once remembered it to be, but I'm with Mike.

It is one of his more solid movies. Same questions to you, Mike. Well, I wasn't in the same theater that Rod was in, but I definitely saw it that opening weekend. Huge salone fan, even though yeah, he was having a rocky time of it, wah wah wah with things like well, Rainbow three, I wasn't a big fan of, though I do praise the Mojahadeen that that movie supports. Rocky five was kind of a shit show, Oscar.

I actually really liked Stop and My Mom, We'll Shoot. I haven't seen it. Cannot pass judgment. It might be one of the best movies ever made, and then he does Cliffhanger and boom, He's right back on top again with that and Demolition Man, and then he starts to tail off again right after that with the Specialist and then Judge Dread though I do find a lot of fun and Judge Shred but yeah, he's up and down in his career, but this movie was absolutely rock solid. I watched it quite a few times when it was on cable back in the early nineties, mid nineties, I should say more, and I really haven't seen it since then, so revisiting it for the podcast, it was funny.

All of my same complaints from nineteen ninety three were still there and all of the excitement was still there as well. So I had a lot of fun watching this again. I was excited to be invited back or invited on this one to talk about it. So I realized now sitting here listening to you guys talk about other stallone movies, and I have seen some other things, but I think they are things that Demolition Man, which has its moments. I think.

I'm not going to speak for either of you, but it's a fun movie. Fun enough fucking love Demolition Mass Send a Maniac to get you a maniac. That's a great line, one of the best lines in cinema. And then Wesley Snipe's doing a really poorly advised Asian Patois in one scene which I will never understand. But you know what, whatever in Deadpool?

Did he see Retard in Deadpool? Was that him or was that Deadpool? One of the two said it. I think it might have been Wesley Snipes. It wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Somebody said it at one point in that movie, because I remember being like, whoa this this movie is a thing. But yeah, Wesley Snipes and that movie is weird. Again, Like, I don't really think of Stallone in that movie as much as I think Wesley Snipes. When I think of Stallone, I guess the things I should be thinking of that stick out to me are judged Red, which is without a doubt. I mean, Jesus, it's it's fine.

It's an interesting looking movie, sure is. Yeah, Rob Schneider and armand de Santi, boy, what a what a fucking cast that is? Is? Yeah, that we covered that back in twenty fifteen and got to talk to armand de Sante when we did that. That was a thing.

Yeah, man, Yeah, I know, right, Well, he was promoting some other fucking movie that nobody cared about. But it's like, well, do you want to talk about Judge dridd for a while. So, and to your point, John Landis's Oscar, we covered Colin and I covered that last year maybe when we did like comedy mafia movies, and that movie's fine. I mean it's fun. I mean it's it's a Sylvester Stallone comedy.

I mean, here's the thing. Before I talk about my feelings on Cliffhanger, I want to say I think the reason Stallone is not a actor that I have seen a lot of is because I watched the other guy's stuff way more often, which is Schwarzenegger. I mean, you're kind of for me. It's not like it wasn't Marvel in DC, where it's like one or the other. I mean they treated it that way clearly.

I mean they felt that way about each other, to the point of, you know the stopper my mom will shoe, where Schwarzenegger baited Stallone into being in that movie. But I watched a lot more Schwarzenegger stuff than I've seen any of Stallone's stuff. And so that's the reason I wanted to do this month. So getting down getting down to Cliffhanger and sitting down and watching it, I'm I enjoyed it. It reminded me a lot of On Deadly Ground, the Still the Sugall movie, because it's a there's a lot of like running around in the mountains and people falling off of cliffs.

I mean, look, the movie is called Cliffhanger. I get it. So half of the movies just people falling to their deaths. But when the movie's not just doing that, I think it's actually better than it has any right to be. But there's a lot of this movie that I mean, I wasn't kidding when I said A lot of the sets look very similar.

A lot it's it's kind of hard to tell what's going on some of the time, Like the sets are very similar and half the time Stallone's just falling down the side of a mountain. So I will say I enjoyed it. I do think that I think the supporting cast of the movie I think probably out shines st Alone. But that's what happens when you have John Lithgow and Michael Rooker in your movie. Who are I mean two of the great I think actors period, and then you have you know, other kind of minor actors, just you know, minor carecharacter actors showing up as well.

I really liked the idea of this movie being a bunch of dudes with bozo rings, like you know, it's a bunch of like half bald dudes like John Lithgow and Rex Lynn. Like the idea that Rex Lynn is a main villain in this movie is fucking insane to me that there was a universe where they were like, he needs to be the main villain in an action movie. Because what that to me was probably the most surprising part of this movie is that Rex Lynn is a main villain in a nineties action movie, of all the of all the actors, that was just bizarre to me. The character actors just rule in this movie. I mean that you have the little cadre of FBI guys all being led by Paul Winfield, and then you've got Zach Breda in there, who most people know as Jack's boss from Fight Club.

You've got John Finn who's always fantastic, but yeah, fucking Bruce McGill to say dd baby, oh yeah, and who's the guy who saves the whole story. Like, this whole movie comes down to one character actor Braig fair Brass, I believe. Is it is that right? No, it's a vet Vito Urghinis, the guy who unloads at the right at the end of the the oozy and saves the whole movie. Right exactly, that guy.

He yes, he's amazing, and that he's the character actor like, Oh, these guys are doing the heist. I have to stop them, And this whole movie would not happen if this guy hadn't happened to be on that plane and be really good at his job and just fucks up their entire plan. I love it. He's really the true hero of the whole movie. Then you have Max Perlick as well.

Oh my god, yeah, Max perlac the darling of indies at this time. It's like any smaller role like what was it Beautiful Girls or drug start cowboy. He would just show up in these like little tiny roles and then him as like, yo, dude, we're gonna go extreme and bitch this mountain. I'm like, where did this come from? Yeah?

Exactly. And then the guy from Walton's Ralph Waite, Yes, man, he was it's just like, I think the only movie I'm aware at least that I'm aware that he's in. I'm sure he's in others. And he was actually on the Blacklist for a while, and like the Waltons was kind of like this Blacklist haven between him and Will Greer, and yeah, like those two showed up in a couple other things. I want to say.

He was in Executive Decision, the one that was talking about the Kennedy assassination. And wait, was also one of the enemies, one of the bad guys, a white cop who was corrupt in trouble Man. And he's freaking amazing in that. Oh yeah, I've not seen that one. Oh that's a good one.

Definitely check that out. Well, yeah, now I'm looking at his page. He's in a lot of movies. He's just not like the star. And going back to Acepan, Suri's in Aceminterra Pet Detective June.

Oh, okay, I actually like the second one more than I like the first one. To be perfectly honest with you, guys. Do not ever watch Aspina Pet Detective Junior. That's the third one. But the kid, it's Courtney Cox and as Ventura's son is what the is that?

What it is? Isn't that what the premise of the movie is. Ralph Waite plays grandpap in Tura. Oh my god, I read it and I raced that from my mind. But my favorite character actor in this whole thing, and I didn't know his name then, but I sure know it now is Gregory Scott Cummins.

He's one of the bad guys. And he's in Action USA and Phantom, the Mall and Hackle Lantern and Blood Gang. And he's Max Dad on It's always Sonny. Yeah, and he's on and he's on Bosh and like he's really good now you know, he's uh he plays good guys now on on TV shows, but back then he was like always the bad guy. But I I really like him.

He's got white a thing going on. And we all thought that, uh, Leon was just going to break out after his amazing role in Cool Runnings and then he does this. I mean, there's a one to two punch nineteen ninety three. This guy's on top of the world. Yeah, he even existed, and him when his name popped up in the credits, it's just Leon.

I was like, oh yeah, that that guy was the thing he was for brief time. I think he has the best death. I think he has the best death in the entire horl Yeah. I mean you imagine the strength that would take to lift Leon up over your head and then murder him by shoving him through the life tights through him. It's wild.

Yeah. And that's the thing about this movie, Like when the movie is trying with the action, it's really I don't know, it's really successful because there's not a whole lot of movies like this one. I mean I can't think of another. I mean, what there's what's the Clint Eastwood movie where they were on the Eiger sanction. I mean that's another kind of mountain movie limits, But Vertical Limits is more about like the people versus the mountain, right.

I don't remember exactly, but it reminded me of Cliffhangers, So I'm gonna say it's fair. This has like a point break aspect to it though. That's the thing that like, I guess, like that's what I knew about the movie is that there was like, oh, they're trying to get money. It's not. They're just trying to save people.

And that I think is for me that's the fun part of the movie is that it kind of subverts your expectations because you don't expect it to be this kind of pseudo heist movie initially, and then it and then it again, Like I don't know. I think it's the beginning of the movie's fun where they're in the airplane and all of that, but then when they get to the mountain, it's some of the set pieces, like the set piece where rex Lynn dies literally looks like a set. That is the worst part of this movie for me. How faky that set is. And even in nineteen ninety three, it was just like, whoa what happened?

They just turned left onto us set someplace. This is wow like and it's it's beyond beyond it. When I saw that scene, I was like, oh my god, what is happening here? This is it's the fakiest looking shit I've ever seen in an action movie out of the nineties. I mean, it's it is so set bound.

And the thing is, when they were they were clearly shooting in real places. I mean it's obvious that they're on They're actually on like in location. And so when you go to a scene like that, I was like, wow, that that is very setbound and again, like again, I have a problem with rex Linn being a villain in this movie that we're supposed to take seriously. He so reminds me of Now I don't watch Breaking Bad, but what's the bald guy Dean Norris. He reminds me a lot of Dean Norris in this one.

But yeah, he always just seems so flustered in this movie. He's just like, well, damn it, what are you going to do? I'm just like, calm down, Matt, calmed out before we go too far. When the music opens to this movie, did anyone consider that there was going to be walking out to this and announcing who the next supporting actor best supporting actor is? I mean, this just so becomes Oscar music in the few years afterwards.

Oh I know right well. And the font used for the credits, it is this very prestige, tony looking ace that it's not like the big block letters on the poster. It's you know, like the United United Artists logo that Sarah py Gold stuff going on. It's just completely at odds with the movie that follows. But whatever, it's a prestige picture, totally.

I mean, the way the movie opens, it's kind of trying to be is what it feels like, Like, like I mentioned the thing the Ace Ventura, the opening of Ace wentur ripping this movie off, Like the movie is trying to be way too serious at the begetting of the movie, and it just like doesn't totally jive with the rest of the movie. Like I get the beginning of the movie and I get what they were going for, but for me, like, like you guys have both already alluded to, like in a lot of ways, I feel like the movie could have been more fun, Like there could have been a sense of fun, more fun to this movie, and it feels like it kind of wants to be somewhat of a character piece. About Stallone, It's like I don't I'm not sure I care.

Those scenes at the beginning of the movie between him and Janine Turner are not great. I'm not saying Stallone's not a great dramatic actor, far from it, but those scenes at the beginning of the movie with the two of them where he's like, I don't want to go back up to the mountain, and it's like this is not really compelling at all. I'm again, like Schwarzenegger and Stallone are at their best when they're not necessarily being asked to do a lot of the heavy serious lifting in movies. Yeah, that opening with her is pretty unearned. But I have to say the opening opening opening of the movie with the rock climbing, it really reminded me of well, start Trek five, Solishion it possible too, yep.

So I mean it's watching Stallone hanging from that rock. I was just like, yeah, whatever, Tom Cruise, Sylvester Stallone did this so many years before you did. It's the rock Jock, that's the. Rock jack Gabe, And it's pretty smart starting off with that opening death too, which really just kind of shows you what the steaks are sets us up for everything. But yeah, it feels like there should have been a little bit between that and when he comes back, because it just feels like almost the next day.

But thank goodness we have the heist in between there to break it up a little bit. On the title eight years later or month eight months later? Sorry eight months later? Only eight months? Oh wow?

Yeah, I guess it got over a pretty. Quick Yeah right, Yeah, it's and again, like I mentioned with ace vent Tur like acevent Tura parodied it because in acevent tur it's a raccoon that falls to its death, not a person. And like again, I knew that that's how this movie opened. And when I when I end up watching this movie and seeing it, it's just I knew that the movie is going to be fun, and so to have the movie open with this like serious set piece, just again, I get what they were going for. But I don't know why Stallone's character had to be conflicted, because because he he went onto the mountain very quickly, there wasn't a lot of him that he didn't have to be convinced that hard to go to go deal with what was going on, he just kind of went.

I think that's the Loan's meddling with the screenplay, the word some of the stuff I've read about. You know, he has a screenplay credit, but apparently it was his contributions were extremely limited to maybe his dialogue, and that's about it. I think he thought the movie was more serious than it plays to be, or at least he hoped it would be. He's not. I think that's something that was Stallone.

I mean, he started out as a dramatic actor, right or at least in Rock right, well, he was a normal but ever since then he's you know, he goes up and he goes down. He goes from comedy to action to you know, here and there and everywhere, but back. This was like a really I stakes comeback vehicle for him. And uh, you know it's before cop playing, before he really went hard on the dramatic again. I think he wanted it to be more serious than it was.

And you know, he he's the director in his own right, and Rennie Harlan's this point had not done it fun. I mean a couple of big hits, yes, but I'm sure he muscles his way around set with Oh Direcords and the screenwriters, and. I'm every surprisy. I'm frankly surprised he took a screenwriting credit because he seems to do a lot of stuff behind the scenes and doesn't even take that credit. Yeah, so you guys mentioned Renne Harlan, and so this was I was mentioning this you guys before we started recording.

But in the documentary Never Sleep Again, the Nightmare on Elmsree documentary, they talk about and obviously Rennie Harland directed night Rone Elmsry for the Dreammaster, and they talk about how he got essentially his foot in the door in the States. So he went to Bob Shay's office someone just sit in his waiting room outside waiting to try to get to talk to him, to try and convince him to direct a night roun Elmsry movie, to the point where Bob Shay's secretary was like, this guy smells bad because he was like essentially like he was like, is this living essentially an in squalor trying to get a job in the States as a director. And so it's weird because Rennie Harlin, I mean, he's directed some decent stuff, right, I mean, I would say this is pretty good.

Die Hard two. Die Hard two is probably the best die Hard sequel. I not say three on that one, but that's okay. I haven't seen three in a long time. I prefer to too.

I love the first three. I want to be fair. The second one has Bill Sadler in it, which I think for me is asked at the beginning of the movie bare Ass Bill Sadler. John a must just oh yeah, but I mean I love Adventures of Ford fair Light. Yeah.

He makes he has some really fun movies. Has like some turns. I mean Longist good Night. I really enjoyed that one. Great when Deep Blue c has a lot of fun and.

Apparently got along well with Stallone because I believe Stalone wasn't driven, right you sure want him? Yeah? Yeah, And I don't think Harland directed that was it called I See You or No? He did nice? Okay, but it feels like Renny Harland film today.

It does feel it. Yeah, yeah, So take that as you will. It is weird though, that because I mean Rennie Harlan. Yeah, Nightmare and Elm Street four that was a big hit back then. But yeah, at Elm Street sequel would send a director to the top of the A list.

It's bizarre to think about in these days, but that's exactly what happen because he got Diehard too off that. He literally the day after Dreammaster opened. In that Never Sleep Began documentary, he talks about Steven Spielberg calling him the next day and he thought he was kidding. He's like, He's like, there's no way, and it was like, nope, Spielberg reached out to you like the next day because of how successful a movie was. It's fucking crazy.

That's something like Rennie Harlan for all of the things that he's made that I think people may not like, and Father Malone. Him and I were talking earlier and apparently Cutthroat Eye. Is that a good movie or a bad movie asualate? I think it's bad, but I don't like pirate movies in general, so. Fair I love Genia Davis, who was missus Renny Harlin at the time.

I believe, yes, But I mean, to. You All's point, I mean, he's directed some decent stuff. I've heard that the most recent Strangers movie is not good, which is unfortunate, and he's now on the hook for not just one, but two more of those movies. I think Renny Arland was a good director for this movie, because I think he understands how to film action. For the most part.

I think, again, I'm not sure because some of this movie I really just don't. Some of this movie I'm not a huge fan of because, like I said, the set pieces just kind of meshed together. I mean, there are some fun ones, like where they're on the bridge or when they're in that cave, but some of the stuff kind of in between that just doesn't it doesn't really stand out. It's not particularly memorable, and you know, with a movie called Cliffhanger, you would expect there to be a little bit more memorable set pieces, just given what this movie is is. I think that's fair.

I didn't. It didn't really occur to me until this viewing at How and How that's the case, Like that last half sort of just seems to hit a cycle where you're like, it's like, yeah, people are falling down the snow, and that goes on and on and on and it you know, they get to the bridge and it seems to take forever for them to get over the bridge and then to the next part, and it really is drawn out, whereas I think the first the first half moves faster even with you know, the setup, you know, after the opening, this whole setup of getting them back to the mountain or mountain as the one of the bad guys says that that stuff just moves faster, and I think that actually is some problem I have with a lot of blockbusters in general, is that the third act is usually the least interesting act, and I think that's the case here too.

Yeah, it is so much about just dispatching the bad guys, and you're right, this is a it's an odd movie and that there is supposed to be this pathos to it, but yet it's also trying to follow these action movie tropes. So like when one of the bad guys falls off a cliff, I'm just like, Okay, now's the time for st A Loan to say something quippy. But he doesn't say something quippy. There's a few beats and then Michael Rooker goes, gravity's a bitch, isn't it, And I'm like, okay, there's the funny line. But it's like five minutes too late.

It feels like, so, yeah, it is odd the way that they do that. You mentioned Judge s Dread before and with that one that movie. When I saw it the first time, I was just like, okay, so we've got Joan Chen and Diane Lane, so they're gonna have to fight later on in the movie because a woman cannot fight a man, and a man really can't fight a woman in these movies, so they always have to have a woman versus woman fight, and I was surprised that they, if memory serves, they don't have a woman versus woman fight. They even have a woman in the bad guy group, but she doesn't fight you Turner or am I misremembering. No, you're not, because John Leftgo just murders her.

Yeah, John Leftgo just murders most of the people in this movie. It's just the. Well and Janine Turner, who I love, by the way. I think she's incredibly cute, loved her Northern exposure. Thinks she's pretty solid.

In this movie. She is disarmed ladies and gentlemen by Leon just saying to her, no bullets, bitch, and then she can't do anything after that. It's almost like he had cast a stun spell on her and she just is there frozen because she can't do anything. It's just like, oh, oh, I'm sorry, sir, I'll just let Gabe hoist you over his head and murder you with the stalactite. Yeah, she's not given much to do.

No, No, it's a very thankless role. And that was just that was one of the things I really hated about this movie when I saw it the first time. I mean, I like a lot of the action. The other thing I always have a problem with, and now stick with me here, guys, is that So John Lithgow comes down, He's done. The hest we've got all this stuff, We've got the bad guys.

He eventually tricks Michael Rooker and Stallone to come on out. You know, there's this emergency distress called they show up. He goes, what are your names? And I think as Rooker goes, we're Walker and Tucker. But he never says who's Walker and who's Tucker.

So I always thought it would be great if he misnames them, like because it doesn't matter, like if if John Lithgow suddenly thinks that Sylvester Stallone is Tucker and Michael Rooker is Walker, it'd be great because then when they get on the horn to you know, Jenny Turner or to Ralph Waite's character, they could be like, well, what the fuck why does he call him Gabe rather than Al or vice versa. I thought that would be a great like twist, like you never asked who was who or whatever, but they never do that, so that he. Just assumed, why don't you have a screenplay credit on this? I know I would have been great, right, Yeah, that's like come on, because he even does like that kind of like, oh, I'm going to meet you at the so and so, and it's like, oh, well that's Gabe's code for this, you know, and like we'll meet him here.

Oh that the tallest peak that sounds like this. So yeah, but yeah, nothing with the names. And there's such similar names too with Walker and Tucker. Yeah, totally. But I love the fact that Michael Rooker is in this movie.

Fucking Michael. I kept waiting for when one of the bad guys is yelling Adam, I kept waiting for him to go, well, do Blue do. It cracks me up to think that Michael Rooker is one of the best characters in the MCU. That to me will never be a thing that I can't get over because Michael Rooker Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer is one of the most popular characters from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, and here he is in this movie just you know, kind of upstaging everybody. I mean, he's really, like you said, Mike.

He gets the fun lines for the most part. Stolone gets two, but it doesn't work with his character at all. Stalone's character is written too flat in this movie. And that's again I haven't seen enough Stallone movies to know. But is this the way he is for the most part, or do they allow him to be fun.

Schwarzenegger was always having the pithy one liners ice that guy coll the phrase I mean shit like that is what I think of when I think of Schwarzenegger and Stallone. It's like he doesn't want to have fun. He just wants to be serious, which I get, but that for me, is not a winning combination. I would rather watch an action movie where they're having a good time, not trying to be serious, at least with this kind of action movie. Action movie set on the side of a mountain.

For three quarters of the time. It was definitely Schwarzenegger's thing, his trademark. Have you read the book The Last Action Heroes that came out last year about this time. I can't remember who wrote it, but it's about the all the eighties action heroes we talked about the. Yeah, he wrote the one about.

The Crazies evolved, and it was Schwarzenegger's thing. I mean, it's not like only Schwarzenegger, you know, Bruce Willis did it and die Hard, which that was Stephen D or Stephen D. Susa yea who wrote that and who wrote some of those Schwarzenegger things. So what was supposed to be the sequel to this called Damn. Yeah.

So Stallone did start to try and copy it, but it it never It's like he didn't have the right screenwriters behind him, I think, to pull it off. And I don't think he could quite pull it off either, because their personas are different, even though they seem to if you just had it on paper, you know, it's like, here's a guy who really can't speak English. Great, here's a guy who also can't speaking was great. But they do have very different personas, and it really worked for Schwarzenegger. He had the charm that I don't always think Stalloan has it.

Obviously. I think, you know, Stallone is the better actor of the two, but I think Schwarzenegger is the better movie star of the two, if that makes any sense whatsoever. So I think that's one reason why Schwarzenegger was able to pull those off, not just because he had the right people feeding it to them to him, but he was able to deliver it the right way. Schwarz Stallone here he tries a little bit, but yeah, it's like they give it to Michael Rooker a lot, because I think he just delivers them better. I don't know if that was in the screenplay or not, but that's how it turns out.

No, I completely agree. I mean I think that may be why I haven't really gone out of my way to see Stallone movies, because I do prefer when I watch an action movie for it to be a little bit more on the fun side, or at least like willing to. I mean, look, the optics of a hero taunting when he kills someone is not necessarily great because it's like, this guy's a fucking sociopath, Like he just killed this guy and he's you know, like I mean Schwarzenegger in Commando. I mean, his character is a fucking sociopath. Yeah, I mean he's having a good time.

But let's not kid ourselves. When a guy's dropping one liners after murdering people, it is a little odd. So I get what Stallone may have been going for in terms of, like I need to be serious because I shouldn't be cracking jokes when I murder people. But it's a fucking action movie. Like I'm not going to say, get over it, but I don't know.

I mean, for me, Stallone just I get what he's going for in this movie. But I think if this movie had Schwartzeneger in, it probably would have been a little bit more fun. I would agree with to that totally. And I can see Cobra. Well, that's the thing.

That's the one that I've heard that everybody really likes. I mean, that's that's like the Stallone movie. Right. It's so not a fan of that movie. It's not good, but it is great in a way its own terrible way.

Yeah, I can see that. I can see that, and yeah, I can see why people like it. And I think people like it ironically and they don't want to admit it if they actually do like it, you know, if they say, oh, no, no, I'm sincerely like this. I'm like, yeah, no, I don't think you actually do. Yeah, agreed, Tanko and cash Is I think legitimately Funland, that's where hitting that one.

That's where I think he does the comedy a little better. But it's I mean, it's got problems, definitely. I do want to mention that book I talked about, The Last Action Heroes is by a guy named Nick the Simley and sem l y e n. It's terrific and it is about Schwarzenegger, Stallone, Bruce Willis, Steven Saga Adolph Lunger and Chuck Norris Van Dam, Jackie Chan and like goes through all the nineteen eighties runs of those guys and it's an incredible read. They do talk about the catchphrases thing that we were talking about, but also just the rivalry between Stallone and Schwartzenegger, which you talked about, Chris, like how real it was.

Like they weren't hitting around, they hated each other. They were trying to, you know, compete for the same essentially market share. When I but that's the thing. I don't feel like they were. I feel like for a group of people, and I think it's a bigger group of people.

Schwarzenegger was a better action star in a movie star because he resonated with more people. Stallone I think understands his worth, but I think he maybe thinks his worth is a little too much. And I think, you know, look, Schwarzenegger doesn't have any fucking writing credits on anything at all. Like he never interjected himself into things the way that Stallone did. And look like we've already alluded to, I mean Stallone wrote Rocky, he won the fucking Oscar for it.

I mean this is the first thing he writes, and he wins an Oscar for screenplay. So he didn't win. He was nominated. I thought he won. Now he's not one one.

He's nominated I think three times, but he's not one. He's been nominated three more times than Schwarzenegger will probably ever be nominated, which is unfortunate. I mean, Schwarzenegger will win an honorary Oscar. I think that's, you know, for contributions to the world of cinema. But Schwarzenegger never interjected himself into things the way Stallone clearly has.

And I think that there is something to be said for, like you said, Rod and a movie star understanding that's not quote understanding your place, but understanding that there are people who can write scripts better than you can. You just need to be the guy to show up and do the lines and knock it out of the park. And Schwarzenegger, for me, is that guy. But if you're looking for something that's a little bit less just fun, I can understand why Stallone, at least with something like this, might scratch the itch a little a different itch in a different way. But I don't I don't know.

I guess Stallone in my mind, like what, so you guys have kind of already alluded to it, but what is like for y'all? I mean, whichever one if you wants to go first, what is the quintessential Sylvester Stallone role? Is it rocky? I think so, Yeah, I think it is. But he's going to it's rocky.

And if not that it's a Rambo he's gonna be for those two things. The Rainbow is such a different character between First Blood and the rest of the Rambo film comspletely. Yeah. Yeah, last movie was like a Luccio Fulchy film. I mean the first First Blood is it's a great, great film, and we're based on a great book, very well directed by Ted Tatcheff.

You've got you know, Brian Dennahey just doing a wonderful job in there as well. I mean that whole movie really comes together in a great way. It's a drama. Yeah. You would never know from Rambo two and three and then the subsequent ones.

I think I've only seen them two and three, and I want to want to say, I watch or try to watch John Rambo and I was just like, yeah, this is silly. That's the one where he's fighting the cartels. It might be. I just remember a lot of digital blood. Last Blood is the muster someone where it feels like a full cheap film, it's so bloody.

I do also think it has to do with the directors that they worked with, because when Schwarzenegger was making his initial bid at stardom, like moving from bodybuilding quitting movies going or quitting sorry, bodybuilding to go into movies, he worked right away with John Millius and Oliver Stone writing and then to Jan you know, like, yeah, he had those of the you know, the talent, the kind of talents he had behind him, so Vester Stallone, you know, he not to knock some of those people. There's some good directors there, but it's just a different it's a different world. I mean, he's he you know. They there's like a good teen year gap between their starts, and the movies changed a lot in those ten years too.

So yeah, I was just watching Prisoner of Second Avenue and I forgot that he was in there. He shows up, Yeah, yeah, basically gets mugged by Jack Lemon or there's I think he also mugs Woody Allen and bananas and yeah, just smaller roles. I mean, Machine Gun Joe Viturbo is probably my favorite thing that he's done. By Death Past two thousand. Yes, I don't know if anybody else is going to say, like, that's the role for Schwarzenegger, but he does comedy and action and just he's he's hilarious in that movie.

For me, Yeah, he is. That is a that's a legitimately great movie, whether by accident or design. I love that movie. Oh yeah, it holds up too, all these years later, it does. Yeah, I I you know this this month.

The intent of this month was to watch more stallone stuff, and I'm not you know, it's not that I'm not excited. Obviously, I programmed the month. This is one of the few months this year that I did program a lot. I mean this year, I gave a lot of deference to a lot of other people to program the year because I like watching things that other people find to be interesting or exciting. And this is the one of the few months that I actually programmed, And this was the movie that I was most excited to watch.

But there are I mean, the other things that I'm watching this month, I think are I don't know, I mean, they're very tonally different from this. I mean, this is are you at liberty to see what you're watching? I am so dtalks. Boy, that's ice you, I think, isn't it? I think?

I think so? Yeah. Yeah, it's which opened in one screen theatrically here in Oklahoma City. I remember getting that on a b CD. Yeah, that's and it wasn't available in the US other than through VCD.

I ordered it through maybe like a Hong Kong side or something. Also watching Fist f I s T Yeah, oh that's. The early one. Yeah, and then. Yeah Rhyanstone, oh god lord, look, and then the Paradise Alley.

That's another one in a series. Yeah. You had some serious stuff and some crazy shit. Yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes you didn't watch Copland. Well, And that's the thing. Maybe I should have asked people some things to watch, because it seems like I may have fucking picked some bad stuff. I mean, Rhyinstone is legendary for being one of Stallone's worst movies. And now I've I've already for oh, Detox and Slash, I see you.

That's I mean, it's not as bad as people say, but it did. It's not good. No, I think Paradise Ali and Fists like I remember seeing those as a kid and being fine with them, but it wasn't rocky, so it was odd to me, you know, like these aren't And even though it sounds like fist would be, it's they're you know, not really. It's like watching Lords of Flatbush when I was a kid and just being like, what the hell, why is Henry Winkler not being the Funds? He looks like the fawns.

Why isn't he the fawns. Yeah, that's exactly the type of feeling you'd get from anything stilln did after they're between rocky movies. Well, I mean now now a whole new generation of people know him for those Creed movies, which is and I mean again like I had seen those, but he's I mean, he's not really the main character in those movies, which I mean is fine. I think actually used him rather well in those movies as a I would say, a supporting character. There's a legacy that's a legacy, sequel, legacy, reboot, I guess one might call it.

I mean, it's more well made than most of those kinds of movies tend to be. But yeah, you know the other thing about Stallone is and you know this is another thing we didn't watch this month, and I know people have certain feelings about it. But the Expendables movies, I mean, he wrote those movies right, at least the first one or two. We did the first one, I know for sure. I haven't checked the credits on the others for what I just saw the fourth one.

I liked the first three, but the fourth is one of the worst things I've seen in a long time. And I remember not caring for the first one very much, and really it was so Terry Cruz for me, Like I never Terry Cruise is on screen. I'm just like, okay, yeah, and he's got that big, crazy fucking gun. I'm like, yeah, this is amazing. I think he even dances with it and stuff.

I'm just like, this guy is amazing everything else, especially when they get into all the Dulph Lugrin horseshit with his character. I'm just like, who gives a rat's ass about any of these fuckers. That's fair. I think that's fair to say, thank you. But hey, we finally got stallone and Schwartzeneg you're on screen together.

I mean, that's you know, that's all the Expendables movies kind of are for you know, for. That you want to Escape Plan that's actually a pretty solid movie. Is that I've never seen it. Yeah, I haven't seen Escape Plan to Colon Hades, but escape Plan the original was pretty solid. Which is the one that has Dave Batista in it, The third one one or I thought they're there, there's I.

Think there are three of them. Yeah, first one is the only one you want to see. Yeah, I agree with Mike Ki. It's it's pretty solid. It's good.

It's kind of a shame that like that kind of stuff, Like by the time that stuff came out, nobody cared. It seems vo D movies, that's what well, I mean they did. Yeah, Schwarzenegger's other comeback attempts like The Stand and wouldn't necessarily come back attempt just like I stopped being governor now I'm going back to movies, and the time had passed him by. People didn't care. I cared.

I mean I enjoyed them, but I'd like the Last Stand. A lot I didn't care for, like collateral Damage and some of those more action, more straightforward action things. It's collateral damage, the one with the terrorists, that's collateral damage, right, the one with the terrorists, the one with the one, the one that was like an It's like a very nine to eleven adjacent movie because like the Schwortzeger's family gets a lot up, like like an Islamic terrorist. The movie came out like two thousand and two. I'm a true lies.

Jesus James Cameron's most racist. Yeah, boy, that movie. I didn't even like that movie. When I saw it in theaters, I was just like, Wow, this is really fucking racist. We're putting out a casting call for all vaguely Middle Eastern actors in Hollywood.

I turned it up a notch. Go to uh not eleven. We want you to go to one hundred and eleven. What was the first what's the movie with David Suchet where he plays an Islamic terrorist? Jesus christ I said.

Oh, that was he was on a plane, right, was that? Yes? Fifty seven? Or was it executive decision? Was it was executive decision?

Yes? Now that's a movie. Yeah that you're not gonna make it? You are, Yeah, that's the one where Sigall dies in the first ten minutes of the movie. Best choice made in that movie.

Yeah, but yeah, boy from earlier this movie, you know you talked about what was it, terminal velocity or no vertical limit. I mean it felt like action movies at this time were just like extreme sports movies because it was like there were so many skydiving movies. It was like a. Trend to be like there was vertical limit and I'm trying to remember the extreme ops. Like it feels like each Baldwin brother was in one of one of these, you know, skydiving movies.

Nipes was in drop Zone. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there was. There were a lot, but yeah, the extreme thing was quite a trend for a while. Unfortunately in this too, with those with the Max Perlick and the other guy, I just hearing them talk like they're Jeff Spiccoli's and talking about like righteous air hockey and had to laugh. It was a bit.

It was a bit. It was a bit on the nose, as they would say. I wasn't too sad when they got mowed down towards the midpoint of the movie. I like the movies that the movie stylistic choice of any time of character that's been introduced already dies. They cut the audio of the gun going off for whatever reason.

It's an interesting stylistic choice. But when one of those characters dies, it happens when the the helicopter pilot dies, the Ralph Waite character, they do the same. Thing lo mo of the machine gun. Yeah, and they're not the audio they you don't hear the machine gun. Well, that's for the Tler Jones score to come up.

Or sorry, it's not probably Trevor Jones. That's using mister moddy Python. I can't remember whose name. Yeah, Trevor Jones. Okay, yeah, I'm thinking, oh, Terry Jones was in Monty Python.

But yeah, that Terry Jones or Jesus Christ just comes right up on the soundtrack and you're like, oh, I mean, they do so many variations of the one theme. It's kind of wild. But slow motion is the way you really want to see that extreme kid go. I mean really, I took pleasure in that, especially after that Loh, did you catch that thunder radical man? That's some of the worst dialogue.

So did y'all realize that there's a sequel to Cliffhanger coming out and they're going to start filming it at some point this year? They've been talking about a sequel since nineteen eighty three. I think I think it might actually be happening finally. Yeah, I've heard something about it recently. Yeah, it's called Cliffhangers.

They're following the Twister model, which, by the way, Mike, I know we didn't talk about Twisters, but Twisters might be one of the best films I've seen in theaters this year and this lot. Yeah, Twisters is a lot of fun. Man, Wow, I had a lot. Okay, oh wow. I was at the premiere here when they had Glenn Powell and Daisy Edgar Jones and all those people.

I felt Glenn Powell is a thing. I felt really bad that I didn't love it. But I didn't love it. It's fine. I mean, it's Spectacle for Spectacle's sake.

I get it. And then look in a lot of ways, like, I wouldn't be surprised if the Cliffhanger movie actually happens, because Twisters, which is a legacy sequel in the vein of a nineties action movie, made a fuck ton of money, and I wouldn't be surprised if all of a sudden people are like, all right, nineties properties that made money, then can we do this again. Now, I'm I'm not going to be remotely surprised if cliff Cliffhangers Cliffhanger two, it would be Cliffhangers, right. They just slap an S on the end, and there you go. That's what I always heard it was going to be, except it was that there was the thing Mike talked about, the damn which you can talk about, Mike, let's say not that kind of an odd way to go.

Yeah, well yeah, it's very like, oh and I was being called over here where there's this thing. It kind of reminded me of the bridge. I think that was a a Joss Whedon one, very similar. I mean it's basically I heard a damn kind of thing, and this was I heard on the mountain. Really, what's what's the way that this worked?

Yeah? What I remember reading last about Cliffhangers is that it's now Walker and his daughter. I want to say, yeah, where is it Tucker and his daughter. Wouldn't be surprised if it's stallone and a family member, because that tends to be the way legacies equals go. And I have heard that the daughter is the thing because that that kind of that seems to be the case, that's not knocking it, that's just that's just how these things go now.

But yeah, that's what I've heard as well. Yeah, that is basically actual f pretty much. Exactly to be honest, Like I mean, they really Twisters is, I guess a good example of reviving the property. But like we tick for granted, these movies like they I know it's cliche to say they don't make them like this anymore, but they really don't make them like this anymore. No, not at all.

The worst version of this type of like John lithgowt like Brick with Denzel Washington, that's not at this level. But I would kill for something like that to be in theaters now. It's because I just missed this type of movie. The spectacle of it all is really well And I mean, like I said, I mean Twisters. You might not have enjoyed it rod but there was a level of spectacle to that movie that I have not seen in a movie in a while.

And you know, again, it made enough money that I think that this might now be a thing that they start maybe looking at. And I'm not gonna complain because I think action movies for the longest time have been taking themselves way too fucking seriously, and I would love a return to people actually being able to go to the movies to have a little bit of fun. That might be a little you know, you know, maybe I'm saying it's a little overrated in this day and age given the state of the world, but I mean being able to go to a movie and actually just sit there and enjoy yourself for two hours with some dumb shit is really, I think, in this day and age underrated because they do not make movies like this anymore.

But again, like you said, Round Twisters is a good example of maybe the trends going in a different direction, which I would be perfectly okay with. I think that if these kinds of movies make money them coming back to do a legacy sequel, I'm all for it. I mean, at some point Salon will be able to do it. Look at Indiana Jones five. I mean good, I chill.

I tried. Yeah. I mean it is nice too that you didn't have to watch twenty five movies and five TV shows to know what's going on in this thought it was a nice standalone film, and that it didn't become a franchise. That thought was kind of nice. That's surprise.

All the you know, still Long has done a lot of sequels, this didn't get one. It still surprises me because it was a solid hit. I mean I think it opened like a week or two before Jurassic Park, so it got you know, eaten for lack of a better word after after that. But it's still it made. It made a decent amount of money, wasn't it.

Yeah, pretty well. Received seventy million dollar budget box office of two hundred and fifty five million. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at. And speak of silly fun. I think the scene in this that does that the most might be where stallone and one of the bad guys are fighting and then they sort of sled down each other down the mountain.

It's it's like that is almost it's like this far removed from Christmas Vacation where they're going down the metal sled super Fund. Do you know what it reminded me of. It reminded me of Her Majesty's Secret Service. Yeah, when they're coming down from the top of the chalet, coming down, Yeah, Peace Gloria and in Bonds, they're trying to kick the shit out of the blowfelt. Yeah, yeah, that's the fun.

I mean, that's the one one of the few scenes in the movie where was like, this is what this movie could have been. Oh yeah, this is what this movie in a lot of ways should have been. And the fact that it's not is, I mean, is a bummer. I mean, for me, the fact that this movie is not more fun is a bummer. But we're not more fun, but that it doesn't understand kind of what its successes are and it's kind of interested in something else.

And I will say, we haven't really talked about it, and we've talked about everybody else but John Lithgo doing a British accent. It just reminded me of his progressive soup commercials so much. I had forgotten that he did an accent in this I was genuinely surprised it's been that long since I've seen it and totally forgotten about that. I love how the trivia for this movie is like half of a is this person was considered for the villain role. This person was It was like, can we just combine all of these IMDb clean up your trash because it's just so many like well, this David Bullie was going to be this bad guy in this I'm like, Okay, how much of this is real and how much of this is just fantasy casting.

They wanted David Bowie supposedly, supposedly, which that would have been interesting, And I mean Chris Walkin was in the movie and left the movie. I don't. I mean, here's the thing. In a lot of ways, this movie does remind me of I mean, like I mentioned on Deadly Ground, because there the idea that John Lithgow and Sylvester Stalone would ever be able to fight one another is never addressed, which is why John Lithgow essentially dies the way that he does. Sylvester Stallone is not threatened at all by John Lithgow as a physical specimen, and that's kind of a problem in this kind of movie.

I'm not a huge fan of these kinds of movies. Just you know, the villain dies essentially in two seconds. It's a very Siggall adjacent. Sigall essentially never takes a punch in any of his movies. He comean in God, what's the movie with Henry Silva?

He just kills Henry silv in two seconds, like he gets his hands on him. It just breaks his neck immediately like, Okay, well the movie's over. I guess this movie kind of had that same thing where it's like, am I really going to take John lefo as a physical threat to Sophster salone? I'm I have a hard time believing that. That doesn't really, that doesn't track.

Once upon time he was like, I'm thinking of blowout, Brian to palm blowout. He was physically imposing before he really became known as John Lyfkett, before he was nominated for Oscars stuff like that. Yeah, he was scary and yeah, remember him he towered over Robin Williams in the One According to the Garden And yeah, he was a very physically imposing person. Just to see him versus like even Cliff Robertson and obsession of those like the Palmer roles that he was doing. But yeah, from what I understand, he was taller than Harry from Harry and the Anderson's and they had to give Harry some lifts.

That doesn't surprise me. In the slight that tracks, thank You totally tracks. Yeah, I just wish Stallone had I mean again, get we get the fight at the end of the movie, which oddly reminded me of GoldenEye. I'm fighting on the side of that, on the side of the mountain in the helicopter, but it's, you know, a two second fight. It's it's two seconds and that's it.

We finally get to see Stallone get his hands on the villain who has killed so many people that Stallone either knew or was friends with or cared about. And then it's just two seconds. And I don't know. I'm more of a fan of action movies where the villain actually gets somewhat of a come up and as opposed to just falling off the side of a cliff in a helicopter and that's the end. I don't know for me.

For me some of the I don't. I guess the question I have is sitting here and thinking about it. How good of an action movie is this movie? Is it? Is it a really good action movie or is it just kind of a weird mountain rescue heist movie.

I think it's a solid movie, period. I don't it's a great action movie. I don't even think it's Renny Harlan's best action movie. I would put Die Hard too, and that's slot easily. Yeah, and a long good Night.

It is another one i'd put up there. I'd put Deep Blue c up there before I would put this. But yeah, I think it's a fairly solid commercial blockbuster. You know, it's not insulting your intelligence too much, only here and there, but it's it's it's really well made. And I I really I don't mind the model work, the obviously green screen effects like I'll take that any day over c g I creating stuff from nothing, I really do.

Uh just miss that practical practical effects for the most part, or just the I guess greens craze out like practical effects. But you know, it's it's it's different than then let's just create everything on a computer. I just think there's more imagination to it that that I think is missed. And I get that people, you know, if you if you didn't grow up with it, it looks fake. I get that.

But that's I'm old. That's where my preferences lie. Well, I mean it was something Mike you mentioned with Axelf. I mean a lot of that movie is done practically and it benefits from it. And I mean, should a sequel to Cliffhanger come out, I would assume most of it's going to be done practical on location, which I mean should be a positive for a movie like this being you know, a sequel to this being something worth watching, and I guarantee you it'll probably be more of an action movie than this is, because everybody remembers this movie as an action movie, but if you actually sit down and watch it, it's not, in a lot of ways a action movie quote unquote.

It's kind of a lot of things mashed together because it is. I mean, there is a point break heistness to this movie. There is this weird attempt at a character study in this movie. But in terms of it being, yeah, just a action movie, it's not what I was expecting it to be, given the previews, given what I've heard about it, given the expectation, given that it's a Sylvester Stallone movie. It's again like Stallone, just we've already alluded to it, he kind of injects himself in the things, and I don't think that that's I don't think that that's a good idea, because again, like these kinds of movies don't need to be serious, they need to be fun.

They need to have a sense of fun to them that has felt throughout and yeah, like you said, Ron, it's a good movie, but tonally, it could have been a lot more consistent throughout. I mean, imagine if imagine if something like Speed speaking of Twister, you know, and Yon deband like, imagine if Speed wasn't as fun as it is, and you know, the end of the movie, you know, with Dennis Hopper and Keanu Reeves, I mean, if that, if that scene would have felt completely unearned, the way some of the stuff in this movie feels unearned with Stallone, because at the end of the movie was like, keep all your arms and legs in the vehicles, like where is this coming from? Yeah, exactly, And that's that's a case of he couldn't still and could not deliver with us the way Schwartzeneker could, or the way.

Michael Right, Michael Rooker, star of this movie, really for me, like spend just about as much time with him as we do Stallone, and I kind of wish we spent more time with It's weird though mentioning Michael Rokan and Sylvester Stallone is also technically in the MCU. Oh yeah, in The Guardian Galaxy. Yeah yeah, yeahs yeah, yeah. Yeah, Okay, sorry, I was getting confused with Serenity. Now, Mike, do you remember was this one that the marketing was that'll blow you through the back of the theater?

Is that this or was that a die hard peg? Well? I might be confusing, but I do remember this had the big hold on Like the poster was mostly the words hold on and cliffhanger was really small, and the trailers were scored to uh, some classical thing that has become the you know, the cliche for all action trailers after this. Lots of jumping in slow motion, and it was it was really well marketed. I remember that it got you excited for it, and yeah it did, Chris, it did set it up as like an action movie period.

Yeah, the previews kind of sell this movie in a different direction. By the way, it'll blow you through the back wall of the theater is die hard one hard one Wow, it'll blow out your back of. This kind of it's kind of more of a thriller, yeah, with some hard action in it. I yeah, I agree with that. And a lot of sets, a lot of sets when it when they're at night outside, well, yeah, it seems to be on a set.

God. Yeah, some of the set bound nature of this movie is just ill advised, very ill advised, and again for having shot on location, clearly for so much of this movie to have to have some of those sets just oh Jesus, just no, no, no, no, no no. We had so much fun with this movie though, and it was so nice going back to it, and it was great to see the price Star logo again, the Carol co or yeah, so I think some people pronounce that now logo. I mean that used to be for me the side of quality, because I was just like, oh good, this movie's gonna be violent. I love it.

And Gasoline a dollar forty six again, oh god, yeah, yeah, the Carol that was that was a sign not necessarily quality, no, but a fun time. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where like it. It seemed like everything that well they did.

Yeah, they had Schwartzenegra movies too, and some movies and. Yeah, Terminator too. Yeah, and Total Recall as well. That's right. And then they had stuff like Lock Up.

Deep Star six, Angel Heart. That's right, Johnny. They had some odd things and Jesus. Christ the Loon almost was in instead of this, like before they were working on a movie with him and John Candy oh yes, yeah, neighbors. Yes, John Housdale, Yeah yeah, and then that fell through and he ended up taking this.

John Candy just had to die. Yeah there he. Oh. Also, people tell me that that John Candy's been dead for thirty years. I'm like, get the fuck out of town.

Yeah it's true. Yeah. The fact that this opens with not opens but during the credits special appearance by Paul Winfield one feels so TV movie too. It makes you think he's just in a cameo. He's throughout the whole thing.

I mean he not like he's Michael Rooker and he's in a ton of scenes, but he has a number of them from finish. It's just the oddest billing. He's right there at the end of the film. I mean he's kind of doing almost a Vince Larkin type thing, but he's not you know, actively on the mountain trying to you know, catch up with Cameron Power or something. Right, I don't remember him being through the whole deal.

I just seeing that credit again, I thought, oh, he's just going to be here at the first to set up set up the plot. And yeah, no, Well I kept expecting them to be in on it too, Like even going back to it, and I just maybe that's because of him as well, up to Tyrrell, where it's just like I try, but it's so hard. He's got the little thing and like CON's control in his mind, you know. But no, no, he's not in on it. It's just that that dastardly Bruce maguil.

So such a quick role by Bruce McGill. This makes me so sad. No kidding. I was like, wait, was that Bruce McGill. They didn't just kill Bruce McGill, did they know?

It was? Yeah, in this timeline they killed him, but he's still alive another. Timeline, yes, thank god, Yeah, thank god. I mean, would would this have been? Would have been better if we instead of Cliffhanger, we'd gotten Gaale Force, the die hard in a hurricane movie that Stallone was going to do.

Otherwise, that was another Caro can't say it, Carol how movie. That was a legendary one of those unmade projects. But they did, didn't they turn it into something else? Well? I know that Hard Rain was very that's to.

Say the Counta Reeves movie, right, Chris Slater, That's right, Keanu Reves is what chain reaction? Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, And I want to say there was another heist in a storm movie recently, and the. Hurricane heist terrible movie. It could use some Rex linn yelling, you know, because Rex did everything when yelling, which is always I love.

I interviewed that guy several years ago because he you know, he maybe don't know he's not born in Oklahoma City, but he grew up in Oklahoma City. And when I interviewed him, he was on CSI Miami, and I have no idea why I was contacted to interview him or something, but strange man, really strangely. Really, I believe it. It's weird to me that he's essentially the second build villain in this movie, like of all the actors from John Lifgo. And yeah, I'm not gonna say anything about him, but fun yeah, funny interview.

So you wonder if the McIntyre saw this movie. Is like, oh, was she married to him for a while or no, She's. Like they're dating, Like now, oh oh wow, that's they're like in it. Now, Wow they're a. Fan of He must be a huge fan of Tremors, which is weird that she's in that movie speaking speaking good Lord yep.

Yeah, he was kind of a rabbit's foot though to Rennie Harlan, because he gets cast in a lot of Harland films, including Cup Prhode Island, and The Long Kiss Good Night. But I think I mostly know him from cinematic classics like The Postman, Oh Dear Jesus, Rush Rush Hour, Breakdown, I remember being good than that and Breakdown. Yeah, that's a that's a good movie. It's a damn yeah. Talk about kind of movies.

They don't make those those type of thrillers as adult not like pornographic, but you know, just adult minded. Yeah, might have been r rated all the thrillers. Yeah, that's fucking Kurt russell Man. You can't get better on Nope. Is he in your Last Action Heroes book?

Because he should be not, but he should. Yeah. I think he mentioned that he's not one of the main characters, probably because he had so much of a run in the seventies and then the nineties is when he really hit again. The sort of eighties were not as successful for him as those two. Yeah.

I guess you're right, because Escape from New York was right at the tail end of the seventies, and then the thing was I know critically any too. He did and that was eighty two. Yeah, that Kurt Russell. I'm I'm for anything with Kurt Russell. Same.

Yeah. If you haven't seen Breakdown, I highly recommend it. Same. I just rewatched it last year and it holds up so much. So he have excellent.

If y'all haven't seen Under the Silver Lake, which he's in, it's pretty good. It's a fucking weird movie. It's a fucking weird ass movie. That on the projection move that was a lot of fun. Yeah, but he's in that.

And he's also the narrator in the critically acclaimed A Million Ways to Die in the West. Wait, oh boy, everybody loved I remember so many people seen that movie. Why what you kid? Lord? I am a Seth McFarlane and complete us my friend.

Oh god boy, good for you. I get it. Good for you. I guess that's. I just wanted to see how much they stole from Back to the Future three.

Is when I saw the trailers, I was like, this looks like Back to the Future three. So, speaking of Renny Harlan, to go back to Rennie Harlan of all the stuff he's done, like he's kind of been in movie jl for a while, but he's made some I've seen a couple of things that I really liked. One was Devil's Pass, which was like a found footage thing. There was Aunt that's on a snowy mountain and it's it's I mean, it's not a great many, but it's it's really well made. I thought.

And then don't let but if you ever seen Mind Hunters that. I think I also might have bought that on v CD. Yeah, that's a ten little Indians sort of take with U. Valcilmer's in it. I say, Val Kilmer, Yeah, yeah, l L cool J Johnny Lee Miller.

That wasn't bad, I do remember, not bad? And then and then and again this is this is not a quote unquote good movie, but it's fun. It's twelve Rounds, which is something he did with John seen it before Johnsen made comedies. And it's like almost like one of those game movies, you know, like you have to go from this part of town to this part of town to you know, there's twelve rounds of this sort of thing to save his I think it's his wife or something interesting. It's a fun thriller and an acting sort of thing that you know, it's one of those low budget deals that didn't make a you know, huge splash the box office, but it's one of also one of those things that has become a franchise on VOD like the equals to this thing with you know, not connected at all, but.

You gotta have those w W stars to star in things like Randy Orton in Twelve Rounds two and Dean Ambrose in Twelve Rounds three. I don't think that Remy Harlan gets the credit he deserves because he did the first Exorcist film, Oh Dear Geez, Exorcists the beginning. It's god, wow, Mike, we had to go there, one of two Exorcist pre quill movies. Yeah, he was the one that saved say that movie. Sure, sure, there's nothing that could have saved that movie, or in a lot of ways that franchise passed the third movie.

But then he's also like, uh, I try like the Legend of Hercules that came the same year as The Rocks Hercules, which was not good anyway, but this this one had one of the guys from Twilight, Kellen Lutz. Wow, Like it's awful, Wow. One the Rocks. Not much better if it's better. At all, man, a little better, but not by much.

That's like, Yeah, there's days when I worked in a video store and they would release the cheap Russian animation knockoffs and you're just, oh, yeah, I'm buying the Little Mermaid's Like, no, that's not the Little Mermaid that you're expecting, ma'am. No, no, it says right here. I'm like, I have fun with that, yeah, exactly. But he still works, and I kind of want to see some of these. Oh I'll tell you see some of these other things he's put out that I've never even heard of.

Do you know what I want to see? I want to see Skip Trace with Jackie Chan and Johnny Knoxvill. I almost started that one night I ever did. I am going to be watching this very soon. This looks right up of my alley.

And you even have fan bing bing in here. Right, fan binging before she disappeared, Before. She disappeared, before she said things about the government she shouldn't have actually taxis tax stuff. But yeah, there's a reason she's not in the Meg sequel. H Well, it's ironic that Jackie Chan is in that movie, given that we know he is, as they would say, a big fan of the Chinese government.

He definitely is. It's a little bit of a shame that Jackie Chan is a kind of a piece of shit, but you know, do what you can. Didn't He also disswn one of his kids. Because they're gay. Sure did nice job, Jackie.

It's okay. Apparently Michelle Yo was like, hey, he's kind of an asshole, and so, you know, Michelle Yo kind of a I would say, everybody loves Michelle Yo. So probably you know, believe Michelle Yo. And then Jackie Chan. Yep.

Maybe a little problematic unfortunately, but sounds interesting. And I kind of low key love Johnny Knoxville and in most everything he's in o. Yes, same speaking of what was that the last Last Stand? Yeah, with Schwarzenegger. Yeah he's in there.

See it all goes back to either Schwarzenegger or Stitt alone pretty much all of it. I do miss those those days of those guys fighting. Yeah, those were the glory. You missed him, Chris, I know, I just I mean, look, I've seen him after the fact. Look, and that's the thing.

I mean, Schwarzenegger's stuff. I think I don't know. We're going to be watching Commando forever, and I think Commando holds up as like one of the best action movies pure action movies ever made. And you know, again, I'm hoping that I see something this month with Stallone. Given what I'm watching.

Probably not, but y'all have mentioned some other Stallone things that I will check out. But it just it feels like, in a lot of ways, there's no universe where Stallone could ever outshine Schwarzenegger in terms of, like you said, Rod being a action star. Stallone wanted to be an actor with a capital A, which is fine. I mean, I understand, but you know, I think it's more exciting and interesting to be entertaining and less serious in terms of what Schwarzenegger and Stallone we're effectively both trying to do. I want to read you a couple of fun facts about the chag In.

So, once upon a time, we had this great magazine called Spy Magazine, and it was kind of like, I don't know how to describe it. It was kind of like an investigative journalism magazine, but humorous anyway, and. Owe a little mess. Yeah. Yeah, In nineteen ninety three, they did a summer movie preview that I always remember.

It was hilarious, and also it was right before like the Internet came out and everyone you know, learned about movies this that way. I think this may have been the first I'd heard of Cliffhanger. Anyway, they have a couple points that I wanted to read, so creative differences. Production of the movie had to be shut down on two separate occasions because Paroco failed to pay the cruise and Stallone's performance as a death defying mountain claimber was somewhat hindered by his intense fear of heights. Oh God, the West told spy we would be shooting eight hundred to nine hundred feet off the ground, and he just didn't want to go up there.

All of the major action in the film was done with the stunt double about ninety five percent. Wow. A much publicized incident last year in which Stallone reportedly injured his hand climbing a cliff actually occurred on a sound stage. So there you go. And I noticed in the the credits there are three doubles listed for him.

A lot. That's a lot. Can I just say, if you signed up to be in a movie called fucking Cliffhanger. Yeah, you're not going to be on the fucking ground in the movie called Cliffhanger Stallone. But maybe stick with Rocky if you want a terrestrial role, my friend, because Cliffhanger is just on the face of it, that's not that.

Yeah, I think that was Yeah, the face and the Rocky cliffs. Yeah, it's all over the place. Yeah yeah, yeah, so let's and also mentions like it was like forty million dollars over budget. But and I forgot about this. The spectacular trailer has been enthralling audiences right up until the very moment Stallone's face appears at wench point.

Laughter typically ensues. Find it was the case and now it happens with m Night Shymal on movies. People laugh when they see his name in the trailer. But that's that's where Stolen was at this point in his career, Like people were done with him, and it's kind of amazing he turned out for this. But I mean, they did a great job selling it.

Marketing. This was incredible. I think the marketing for the movie in a lot of ways. For as fun as this movie is, the marketing over sells the movie, which is fine, which is fine. Hey, I've seen plenty of movies recently Civil War that have not that.

The movie looks nothing like the reality that the trailer is selling, so you know, at least this is somewhat closer. Yeah. Sorry the hater and triggered by Alex Garland. Yeah, that's why I bought a three hundred dollars Annihilation poster that hangs up in the living room in my house. I most hate the guy.

I really just don't like the movies that he makes so trick, I know, speaking of controversy. So I wanted to ask you, Mike, if you remember this. I have a memory of there being reports that they had to reshoot the scene where rex Land is shooting at the rabbit. They had to reshoot that to show the rabbit lives. Yes, I do remember that, and stallone.

Stallone paid out of pocket to reshoot that. At me, Rick serves, yeah, people, yeah, what's a real bad guy to shoot that rabbit? But he didn't. You know, look at what he did with that money and everythings. A bunch of fucking bleeding hearts shooting the fucking raw man.

That's the concern in this movie. It's not the murdering of people. It's the murdering of a rabbit. That's yeah, yeah. No one complained about the bats though, My god.

Well, from what I understand, the bats were digital. I read that today. I was like, what, that doesn't make any sense. But I think maybe they were put in in post but I don't know. You could tell some of them definitely where today I noticed it.

Even some of them look like they're on a loop, you know, you. Right back and forth. They're a sprite. What is going on here? Do you remember a new thing called an animated gift?

It's on my desktop. It's a dancing baby. It's a guy who's doing construction work, and it says coming soon under construction. Jesus Christy. It's on the front page of my Genois Cities.

Right now, Geo cities. Huh, I never heard of that. Anything else we want to talk about with Cliffhanger. I like the loans line early too, when I guess it was Jeanne Turner. He's talking about going back up the mountain.

He doesn't want to, and he says, you just lose the few, so we. Hits. Those character building scenes are about as believable as the scenes of Schwarzenegger being Alyssa Milano's father at the beginning of Commando penning a deer making her a sandwich. Just we get it. I don't need to see it.

This is good movie as fuck. Please don't show me this because all I want to do is just have a loop of Schwartzenegger petting that deer. Just take a loop just in purpot to them. Yeah. And also I wondered after this viewing, you know, after the opening with Sarah falling and then you have the money falling, It's like, did every character get their gear at the checkout line at TJ Max cheapest?

Shit breaking snapping? And I like how Sylvester slot is like, no, it's my fault that she died, and it's like, no, it's actually your friend's fault that she died because he took a inexperienced climber up into god knows where, Like the I don't even know how they got up there. Yeah, Mountain Nookie, as they would. Say, Mountain Nookie. Mountain Nookie.

That's that's gonna be the name of my dispensary when I open it in Colorado. Come on down to Mountain Nookie your first by one hundred dollars worth of weed and get a couple of free pre rolls at Mountain Nookie. So starting with you, Rod and then Mike. Final thoughts on Sylvester Stallone's a Cliffhanger. It was fun to revisit.

I think this third viewing is going to be my final Cliffhanger viewing. I don't think I need to see it again unless a sequel finally comes out, in which case I might rewatch it one more time just to get in the spirit of it. But I think I can move on again to rewatch some others stolen movies instead, maybe fill in the spots I haven't aren't that many, but so like Escape Plan, the Extractor. Expendables five coming soon more than. Likely, or to hope not.

Or VOD calls. Maybe VOD calls. There are five sequels to the Scorpion Gang. It didn't know that that that was the thing. Go check them out.

I've seen all of them now, and you know, something makes money once, it can make money again? Maybe what about you? Mike. Fast forward forty years and Rods in this old folks home and the TV's on holographic TV by now, and it's Cliffhanger, start the music, Swells said, I'd never watch this again, start breaking my word and his crawls across with his walker getting over there or is it his Tucker. Get so don't never do it again?

No sequel ever, Caine, he yells at a cloud. I love the movie. I still wish they would have done the walker Tucker gag. Still think that uh no, bullets bitch is just a horrible, horrible line. The funny is letting the whole fucking movie.

It's the funniest letting the old fucking movie. Michael Rooker, Yeah, continues to own my heart even after he killed that bird and the suicide squad. But at least that bird got its revenge and ate his brains. So yeah, No, I thought it was fantastic. I love Cliffhanger, and then excited to see it again.

I just won't bring my blu ray copy over to Rye. House and Jeanine Turner like, oh, come back, I know me too. She is just so adorable. I mean, keep your Rob Morrows, you know, give me, give me her. Yeah, you know, I'm this This was the I think this is the one of the movies this year.

I was definitely the most excited to watch, just again because it was one of those things where again I'd seen the trailer a bunch of times, and it's the Stallone movie that has the British John Lithgow, which the British John lithgo of it all really just just sets it over the top. But yeah, I don't think I'll be revisiting it unless, yeah, unless Cliffhangers comes out. But I think if Cliffhangers comes out, which it sounds like it may be coming out in the next the six to eight months, maybe even the next year, because they are supposedly filming it this summer and the summer is still going. Yeah, I don't know. I think I think it's fun enough, and I think it being fun enough is a good thing.

I don't think it's as fun as I was expecting it to be. I don't think it's as fun as I was hoping it to be. But those are you know, those are me problems unless the movie problems. But at the same time, the Sylvester Stallone of it all does seem to be part of it. Pardon parcel to kind of the movie maybe not being as fun as it could have been, So yeah.

I mean, I definitely think you should check it out if you've never seen it. But to both of your points, I think they're better Renny Harlan action movies, namely die Hard too. So yeah. So on that note, we'll take a break, play some ads, and we'll come back and we'll talk about what we're talking about in the next episode. You ever play Hide and Zeek, wealth makes that game so much fun.

That's when the hunter is staring right at you. One by one he takes them. I see you, but you don't see me. One by one they fall nine dead cops. It's not a six months This guy's a different breed.

FBI agent Jake Molloy has followed his trail to this remote outpost of your cops. I don't think anyone's gonna be bored. No, this is what I call a witch. An hour, one by one, his fellow officers are turning up desk. Put the building into sections.

It's personal clear that area. Life begins with death. He knows how big he works. What are you looking for? He's taking trophies, he knows how he thinks.

You study guys like this right up. But I'm just kidding what he doesn't know is who the killer is? Hey, a lot of time to see. How shouldn't you be at home? He's to my house right ten eleven, oh west side, don't don't way.

I'm sorry, but Mary. Can't come to the phone. That's right. On the next episode of The Culture Guys, we're gonna be talking about the aforementioned detox otherwise known as ICU and I if this is any indication of how it's gonna be, it's not gonna be great. Colin Gallagher on that episode too.

So until then, Where can people find you? Rob Lot at flick atech dot com. Also still available at Amazon flick a tech movie Arsenal Book one. I am actually working on book two now. I know Mike will find that hard to believe since it took me like eight years to do the first one.

But I am hard at work. I love it. That's fantastic about you, Mike. You find everything that I do over a Readingwaymedia dot com, including you may not know this, Chris, but there's going to be an extra episode of the Colchac tapes coming out. I interviewed a author of a cold Check fiction compendium and is really good.

So one last col Check tapes until we come back with an interview with Darren McGavin from the Grave. Yeah, so I have to say that the podcast that Never dies, the cole Chack Tapes. Just a couple of years, we'd do a little bonus episode over there. Got to Check in you just, you know, got to keep the people. Just give them a little mill a drip feed, give them live a little more because you know, as they say, there's no better Cold Check podcast on the internet.

I know that for a fact even now. So, yeah, I'm on that show. But you can find that show over Weirdingwaymedia dot com, along with all the other shows that we work on the collective that is weirding Way Media. You can find all that there. You can find the Projection Booth, Eighties TV Ladies, the fulm Entries podcast, a whole bunch of things, a whole lot of different things in the Yeah, weirding Way Media is where you can find them, like rate and review the Culture Cast on iTunes.

Please, it doesn't matter where else you're listening to it, but iTunes is where it would be helpful for you to interact with the show, So please do that if you want to hear and I talk about James Bond once a month with our dear friend mister Richard HadAM. You can find that over at patreon dot com, slash culturecastpatreon dot com slash Projection with at the ten dollars level. Yeah, thank you Rod and Mike for joining me. It was a lot of fun, even if the movie wasn't necessarily as fun as I was hoping it would be. But I think we had a good conversation, so yeah, and as always, we'll catch them the next episode.