Talk To Me

Yeah, weir. Wait, So, Mike, it's been a minute since you and I talked about horror movies. Yeah, quite a few minutes. I would say it's not a it's not a genre that I think you and I. I like horror a lot.

And I'm I mean I watch horror movies plenty. Uh, you know outside of this bookie season as as kids today would say this spookies. But I how before we talk about what we're going to talk about, how you feel about this horror movies in general? And I'm talking contemporary stuff because this what we're talking about is about is contemporary as well as it can get. Well, what I really like is the horror community.

I find that the community is just really supportive of one another and really opens up their arms to you know, very different people. I really appreciate that the horror community really bands together and you know, shows the world that we're not just a bunch of freaks, but your were community. How do you like that voice? I'm trying to figure out who that is. Like I just had like every fucking horror bro and hair horror systs that's out there.

I'm just like, what what are you on? I don't what yeah, the horror community. Uh. I find the horror community to be frankly kind of toxic. Yeah.

I find most of them to be insufferable. Yes, yeah, but modern horror films, they definitely get stuck in ruts. I mean, we're gonna be talking about the biggest of ruts that they're stuck in right now with this. There's yeah, like the once they hit on something, they just stick with it so much. So there's like, I mean, oh my god, the nun movies, which are shooting the offshoots of like Annabelle, which is an offshoot of Conjuring, Conjuring the conjuring verse.

Who gives a shit? Saw? Who gives a shit shit? I mean, it's just I don't care because they just they take an idea of paranormal activity. You take an idea and you just run it into the ground one movie each.

If you want to do one movie each of all that stuff, boom, you're done. But these horror franchises, I'm just like, oh God. And of course there's gonna be a prequel and the sequel to what we're talking about probably within the next you know, six months to a year. Ah. Yeah, I'm not a big fan.

Occasionally stuff will get through where it's just like, oh, you really got to see this, and then I watch it, I'm just like, I wasn't impressed. It follows I wasn't impressed. Yeah, So I was actually gonna ask you of those movies that you've seen, which ones have you seen and were they as lackluster? I mean, before we talk about this movie, were they as lackluster? Because for me, I mean, I'm with you the one that you one of the ones you've already mentioned.

It follows like, nah, it's all right, that's like my feelings. This was fine. There was nothing of the horror movie yourself in the last twenty years where I'm just like, oh my god, that was great. I can't think of one title where it's just like, oh, yeah, I want to see that one again, or I really had a fun time watching it. I think of all the horror movies over the last twenty years that I enjoyed, I think it would be the first human Centipede because I thought it was fucking hilarious.

And I don't know if I was supposed to think it was hilarious, but I thought that was one of the funniest movies seen in my life. Get Out though, Yeah, get Out was okay. I mean I've seen it once. It holds up, it holds up to repeat you. It's really well.

And I think Jordan Peel's stuff, he's very he His film language is both visual and dialogue, and I mean a lot of directors don't really give a shit about visual storytelling in the way that a Jordan Peele does, and I think that that's for me what brings me back to his stuff. I would say he's kind of an outlier the exception that proves because I think there's been some stuff that you would I could consider like a horror movie, like like consider get Out to be a horror movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that's the problem with a get Out or an Exorcist, is it to call it a horror movie is also to kind of unfortunately take it down a peg or two in some people's minds for whatever reason, which I think also is massively unfair, because again that's kind of what the you know again, not that we really care, but the Academy uses to do anything with genre films because their genre film and that kind of weird feeling of legitimacy has been translated into the mainstream, where you know, it's easy to just look at horror as all blood, guts and gore, and we should protect the children from it because it's, you know, corrupting the kids' minds because there's sex and nudity and blood, and it's like, I mean, sure, but have you ever seen a Quentin Tarantino movie, who's never made a horror movie?

And that's an action I guess action movies, which everybody is okay with. So that's why it's it's weird because I don't know, like it feels like horror has always had to strive for legitimacy, but then the movies that transcend it don't want to be called horror, like get Out like The Exorcist. Who call them just a horror movie would be to not really do the movie the service that it deserves. I'm going through a list right now of popular horror movies, and I'm seeing a lot where I'm just like, yeah, I saw that, Yeah, I saw that, and like the this list has the menu on it. I don't okay things like I mean green Room didn't do it for me, Nope, obviously, Yeah, I like lot I was not a big Nope fan.

I wasn't a big Midsummar fan with you. Uh. I thought The Endless was pretty good for those all right, yeah, yeah, there's nothing where I'm just like, oh yeah, yeah, that was fantastic. Yeah, I know, I'm forgetting. The Cabin in the Woods.

I enjoyed because it was kind of taking a shot at the genre I enjoy. Tucker and Dale Versus Evil also kind of taking a shot at the genre. Yeah, I guess I like those type of movies. I mean, Shawna The Dead Again. I guess I'm more a fan of the horror comedies I suppose, but like you know, even like I know, some people were losing their minds of our Mandy and I'm like, hm, not doing it for me.

Did you see twenty twenty as The Invisible Man? Yeah? I did, actually, and I didn't mind it. I didn't mind I liked it a lot better than The Hollow Man, that's for sure. I watched it last night with my wife and I had a good fucking time.

I thought it was a lot of fun, and I thought that the ending was fucking hilarious. I mean I laughed at the ending. I know that that might be a little fucked up, but I think that was kind of what Lee wan Ll was going for, speaking of yet another person who I think shaped the direction horror has gone. I mean, what's interesting is Leewan Ll and James Wan Saw go off on their own do their own things, and now essentially they're movers and shakers in the horror industry. But that being said, they're moving and shaking in the big in the big sphere of like the big Triple A, you know, big Hollywood movie.

It's Universal film. You know, Invisible Man is a Universal movie to remake of the you know, original movie, which is a Lee one l movie. And then James One James One just saw ten James Want has something coming out, Oh the Aquaman, the Aquaman movie. Right, So there you go. I mean, in terms of like where they ended up going with their careers, it comes from the place of horror.

One is embraced it, one hasn't. But we're not talking about big studio horror on this episode of the Culture Cast, though the last eight minutes might lead you to believe otherwise. I am joined on this episode by my good friend. Though you've heard his voice here before, you will hear it again tonight. He's not a fan of horror folks.

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Why are you? Apparently I'm not, and apparently I hate everyone that likes these movies? What are you painting me as?

No? No, your friend of mine? All the way from the Internet's Best Movie Podcast, mister Mike Waite, talk to me, tell me your name? You blow me off like a hurricane. Wow, that's right, folks.

On this episode it's still horror tober, a name that has stuck almost a decade later, and we're talking about whatever kind of comes to mind this month. There's no real theme than it has to be a horror movie or a Halloween movie. So what better than to talk about a movie that essentially came out this year. And by essentially I mean it did come out this year. It's a very new movie.

We're talking about twenty twenty threes, Australian horror movie. Talk to me, just there's a lot of that in this No twenty twenty twos or twenty twenty threes. Talk to me? Hands up? Can not going for more than ninety seconds?

Well I haven't lost in ninety seconds. Don't want to stay now? Say talk to me, talk to me any three seconds? Get it off him? What if were from the doorbook?

We didn't try to don't want to stay? So the film is directed by Danny and Michael Philip Woo. It is written by Danny Philippoho and Bill Hinzman, based on a concept by Day Pearson, and the stars Sophie Wild, Alexandra Jensen, Joe Bird, and Oh look, Miranda Otto. Speaking of Annabell movies, I think she was in Annabel two Creation. I think that's what I said.

One of those Annabel movies. I believe it's Annabel too Creation. And the movie is all about, well, a group of friends who find a hand that allows them to talk to the other side and hilarity ensues, and hey, it got to be a group of It's got to be a group of gen z Ers because it wouldn't be funny if it were anybody else. At this point we will be talking spoilers because it is a new movie and the movie has been only out for four months, two months at this point, so pre spoilers. I'm gonna kick it to you first.

Mike is would this be something worth people who are into horror movies? Checking out people who aren't in the horror movies. What's your thoughts on non spoilery thoughts on talk to me before we talk spoiler one hundred percent. I really actually enjoyed this movie quite a bit good. I thought I was rich.

Yeah, no, I thought they did the right with a lot of what they were doing. And there was no point in this where I was like, oh, I've seen this before, other than maybe the one part kind of reminded me of Hereditary we'll talk about it, but otherwise I was like, oh, yeah, no, this is pretty good. And it was a nice small film, and I really like small films, and I actually liked the characters that we're in here, and yeah, I enjoyed this one. Chris, I'm glad that you turned me on to this. First off, I am so glad to hear it, and then secondly, I am with you one hundred percent.

This is a movie that has kind of lodged itself in my brain and is kind of It's like in the winter time and the cold places where the water gets into the sidewalk and then it freezes. When it freezes it and expands. That's what's happened to me in the last couple of weeks since I watched this movie, and there's a lot of things that we're going to talk about, but I think just the basics are, Yes, this movie is worth checking. Yes, the hype is to be believed because I think like it follows like the Vuvovich, like the Baba Duke, likes so many of these other let's just say it a twenty four movies. Sometimes they don't live up to the amount of hype the scariest movie of the year, they don't live up to that hype.

And it's not necessarily the movie's fault. The horror press and the horror bros and the horror community is to blame for some of that, and whether or not they ever accept responsibility for it is a different thing. But people being hyperbolic on Twitter is nothing new, folks. So Yeah, for me, I enjoyed this movie immensely. I've seen it four or five times now.

Anybody that I know that is into horror, I have told them to check this movie out unequivocally because it's a lot of fun and I think it's also a good litmus test if you're willing to enjoy what horror is slowly becoming which I think will talk about because again, I think horror is becoming something that is trying to be much more inclusive than it ever has been. But in a way that is it's not that I didn't expect it to be this, but the universality of horror has always been there, but I feel like now the stories that are being told that are the most successful are these ones that are universal but at the same time feel timeless because ultimately, spoilers, this is an exorcism. This is an Exorcist style movie.

It's a demonic possession. And I don't know if you saw the reviews for The Exorcist Believers, but it has been fucking roasted into the ground for how bad. And it's funny that this movie came out the same year as a big budget demonic possession movie, because this is a demonic possession movie that is not big budget at all. This movie had a four point five million dollar budget, which is, you know, can you imagine what they would do with more money? Like, you know, like because you put it pretty succinctly like it's a small movie, but it hints at so much more going off.

It hints at a larger world of things. That is happening, and for me as a film watcher, those are the kinds of movies that I like. Where similarly to yourself, it's a small movie, but then it has a lot of things that are going on, and a lot of things that are hinted at and kind of mentioned and alluded to. Well, the thing that I am already dreading is that we're going to find out all of those things that are just hinted at right now. And I'd rather have them just hinted at.

I'd rather not know what the clone Wars were. I'd rather just have allb One mention it in conversation with Luke, instead of having three movies dedicated to it, plus two TV shows plus a spinoff show. Who gives a shit he mentioned it? That's it. I don't need to know all of the ins and out of this.

They set up some real small rules, they break the rules, consequences happen, tada, that's it. I don't need to know the origin of the hand and the this and the that and now just this movie is a nice, tight what is it ninety minutes? I think something like that. Yep. They talked about how there's a director cut that as twenty more minutes, but they went through and they were just very surgical in their elimination of stuff.

Hey, that's great. I think it's terrific. Yeah, it's a that for me, I think is one of the biggest things to talk about immediately is the tightness of this movie, because for me, as someone who has watched a lot of contemporary horror this year, I've availed myself to watch a lot of new horror movies, so many of them are so muddle headed and they're only an hour and a half long, and like it's almost like a joke at this point that these movies fall apart in the third act. This movie is strong from opening scene to final scene, and that for me feels like the biggest success in a lot of ways, that this movie doesn't just fall apart in the third act when not I can this movie doesn't really have like a twist.

I don't think like it. I think what it does is it just it has some expectations that it breaks. But there's not really like a twist in this movie because I don't even I don't even think the way the movie ends is a twist. I think it's a four chef added perfectly. Frankly, in a lot of ways, what they're where this is headed.

And in the best movies, the ending seems almost inevitable. There is no way that the ending isn't going to be what it is. In this movie, I think there's an inevitability to one ends up happening to the lead character. But it is such a well edited and well thought out movie and so tight that it's surprising that it's only an hour. Like it's shocking to me because again, like so many of these other contemporary horror movies are an hour and a half and they just fuck it up so badly, and this movie just this.

I don't think at any point do I really have any issue with where this movie goes. I think ultimately where it goes is not new, but the way they present it is well. It's smart that they have one very central protagonist in this. We get to know some of the other characters, but we're not spending so much time with them. They are basically pawns on a chessboard, and I don't need to know that much about them, so I get the very right amount of information, and then I really start to care about Mia, our main character.

She doesn't even feel she's central. She's there. I mean, the movie doesn't begin with her. It begins with the kind of a cold open, and then she comes in. But it's kind of like, Okay, is she going to be the main character?

Is it going to be the girl that looks a little like Lord? Is it going to be the younger brother? Like what's going to happen here? I'm kind of leaning towards Mia, and then it ends up being Mia. She's not perfect, but she's also not stupid.

You know, she's she's she's got her own motivations, and she's she's not stuper greedy about things. But there is a one moment where she does get a little greedy and it becomes her whole downfall. Okay, yeah, I can I can see that. I mean there's well, there's two moments really, and both of them, Like I said, you set up rules and you break the rules and then you pay the consequences. So I should say, since we haven't said what the movie's about, Like you mentioned, Mia is a girl who has lost her mother and it has affected her deeply to the point where she has she can't even bring herself to live in the same house as her father anymore, to be in the same space as her mother who committed suicide, it would seem but then maybe not.

Throughout the movie there are kind of doubts cast but again whether again we'll talk about what that ends up meaning. But then she and her group of friends are introduced to another group of friends who have found a hand that allows them an embalmed hand looks like a mannequin hand to meet. Yeah, it looks like it's covered in ceramic. You can buy the hand on the A twenty four store and I almost have. And here's the funny thing.

It is a functional piece of furniture, I guess or art because it has a bong. It's a bong as well as being a hand. It has a little bull in the nook where your thumb meets your other finger, and there's a little bull there and you actually smoke out of the finger. So you know, utilitarian bongs for horror fans. But this hand allows them to speak to the other side, and they can only speak to the other side for a certain amount of time.

Otherwise, after ninety seconds, the spirit may bind itself to you permanently, and like you mentioned, rules get broken and people get hurt mutilated even I wanted to ask you, you know, just right out of the gate, because I had friends that walked out of this movie. They didn't go see it knowingly. They went to a like a mystery movie showing at their theater, and they walked out in the second self mutilation scene in the bathroom of the hospital because they were like, if this is gonna happen again, we don't want any part of this. So I'm curious because I think for me it was it's the most surprising scene in the movie, and it's very it's it's really hard to get through. What did you think of those self mutilation scenes?

It took me a minute to remember what you were talking about. With the second scene, I was just like, what what she follows your mom in through the bathroom. No, no, okay, yeah, I think the eyeball popping was a little like the that almost got me, but yeah, otherwise just didn't really. Yeah, I was like, okay, yeah, this is pretty intense, but it didn't gross me out or anything. But that was the first scene of self mutilation.

That's what reminded me of Hereditary when the one kid keeps banging his hand against the desk right was so similar to what was happening in this, but this was much more intense, I felt, and I really I appreciated that quite a bit. It was a scene that took me my surprise because I had not heard anything about the movie other than it's pretty good, it's pretty intense, Like I hadn't heard anything about scene. I feel like, Look, I mean, I think I think you know part of it is, you know, the things that we have seen in terms of like shock movies I think pushed the envelope a lot more than this does. But I think that this has pushed the envelope about as far as you can get with a mainstream audience because it's presented in such a way that I think is really sticky.

Then we get to see the aftermath of it, which is even more horrifying in a lot of ways and just as off putting to see the brother kind of in the hospital with his face swollen and kind of mangle. But I mean, for anyone else that I've talked to, like that scene sticks out obviously because it is so intense, But I think for me, it's like a level of intensity that I haven't really felt in a mainstream movie since something like The Exorcists in terms of like seemingly tapping into something that felt very real, like very palatable. Because I mean again, when we talk about Linda Blair and The Exorcist and people talk about that performance, people praise that performance because it feels like they captured a demon on film.

I'm not saying that's what they got here, but that level of intensity is really hard to replicate and sell, and I think they do a really good job of selling it in this movie. Yeah, I totally agree. I like the pacing of it. That's also very important as far as when you start to do the reveals when there are issues that need to be solved. I mean, at first, I thought that this movie was going to turn into a whole thing about I can't remember the boyfriend's name, but just the embarrassment of him making out with the dog.

I thought that that was going to become the movie. I mean, because it is such a statement of the time as all of the videos that people are are shooting. I don't know if everybody's phone has that light on it, but I think it was definitely a good representation of all of their phones when all of a sudden, all these lights started coming on and they were all videoing everything. I was like, well, yeah, that's pretty too true to life. You know when you get that in the very first scene when the brother what's his name because he's he's calling out to Dunk.

Yeah, when he is taking him away from the house and all of these kids had their phone out and the brothers just like put the phones down. Put the phones down. Yeah, I thought that was really good. I love the idea of what would gen z ers do if they found a hand that could speak to the other side. Well, of course they would just talk and do it, and they would think it's hilarious, right, and like, but here's the thing if so, if I had found a hand like this at my age, at their age, I would think the same thing, probably, like you know, like I don't know, maybe your generation why not, But like I don't know.

Like the thing about this movie that I appreciate is it these feel like real people. They don't just feel like you know. I mean again, some of the side characters are a little not throw away, but they're they're not as well characterized as some of the others. But I do think overall, like these feel like real teenagers, which is not you know, that's not as easy as it seems, especially in horror movies, given that teenagers tend to be horror movie fodder almost exclusively. These feel like real characters with real problems in a real teenage world.

Of Yeah, these are seventeen eighteen year old kids that are so I don't know, like I don't want to say so fucked up because that's not the case, but so emotionally detached that the only way that they can get a thrill is by talking to the other side and harassing demons, harassing ghosts like that, because that's the ultimate conceit of the movie, is what is the relationship between the people who are communicating with the other side and the other side? And the movie kind of sort of answers that in that, you know, the ghosts on the other side may have their own machinations or they may just be fucking with you just because like and to me, it's the ladder that's much more scary, And it's the ladder that kind of answers that question from the exorcystem, Well, why did Pazu, Why is Pazuzu fucking with the McNeil family, Like, what reason is there?

And spoilers for a movie that's fifty plus years old, there is no reason. It would seem the only reason is because that demon came through that one time on that weejah board that Reagan was playing. But there doesn't. There's not any like, oh, the mom did something when she was younger, like with paranormal activity, where there, all of a sudden is an explanation for while all these things are happening. It is scarier when there is no explanation because there because we can't.

We don't want to explain it, because to explain it would take all of what really makes it scary out of Yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah, I don't need to know where the hand came from. I don't need to know what it's actually like when the demon enters into you, which I really or sorry I shouldn't say demon, but you know, spirits enter into you. I was glad that we didn't get like a whole lot of POV shots or like more, because there's one where Mia is laughing at the younger brother and she's like, he's gonna splitch yet, It's gonna splitch yet, And just like going off as this demon. I was so glad that we didn't get her pov as to like a creature behind the brother.

You know, I don't need that shit. I just I wanted his reaction and her with those big black eyes that she had. At that point, I was like, this is really intense. Don't show me the rest Don't do a thirteen Ghosts or the Cell or something like that to me. Just leave it like this.

And I think, for me, the thing about this movie again to go back to the idea of how lean it is, like the amount of restraint that this movie shows, Like, yes, there are two very intense scenes of self harm, but that is kind of it. In terms of blood and gore and the muck and the kills, there is not a whole lot there is kind of There's also the cold open, but the cold open is it just it's played more for shock and less for the intensity of it continuing. And yeah, I mean to make a movie that is as successful as this movie is for an audience that seemingly at least the horror COGNISCENTI you think that they need to be bombarded with loud noises and jump scares constantly, and this movie has none of that, but yet it plays in the sandbox that is much more interesting, which is an overwhelming sense of dread, of a dread that you cannot understand, a thing that is again formless and shapeless.

Best you can tell unless you're holding the hate. And then yes, you see something, but again what you're seeing may not actually be what it is. Again, that's the questions that the movie asks are much more interesting than the answers it attempts to give, if it gives any answers at all. Are we in spoiler territory? Can we spoil away?

Okay? So that the demons know that Mia has all these mother issues and sorry keeps saying demons, but they're really more spirits. They're not very nice spirits, though it seems they definitely like some good shrimping and everything, well, which is fine, I'm not gonna yuck, you're yum. But they know she has this whole thing with her mom, and so then when she requests her mom, or actually it's when the brother suddenly has the mom inside of him, I was like, oh, they are messing with her. And first you're like, is it really her?

Could it really be her? Like of all the spirits in the entire world or other world that it just happens to be her. Could that really be? And then yeah, that's just like the first time because as much as the kids are fucking with the spirits of spirits of fucking with the kids. And I love that.

I love that you don't know what's real and what's not. And after a while of this movie, me is completely off the deep end. And I appreciate that to no end. Yeah, I like that it begins to take a toll on her mental faculties and her ability. Like you know, I do from time to time have a problem with movies that are like is it a dream?

Is it reality? What's going on? I feel like in this day and age, especially now in the age of like the twist, you know, post Shyamalan stuff where it's right, there's a twist, and oh is it real or is it a dream? Or is he dead or is he li? Like like this movie it doesn't have it.

It doesn't have a twist. It does something different. It just goes. You don't need to know what's happening, You don't need to know everything, but it is going to We are going to give you enough to put it together yourself. I mean again, like I feel like I understand more or less what's going on and why the spirits are the way that they are without having to have the movie spend ten minutes of the spirit telling.

I mean, they use that scene at the end of the movie where the spirit takes over the brother's body and Mia is in the room with him, and that's where you kind of that's the most we get in terms of exposition about what the spirits are doing. But I'm with you the idea of the spirits just being like, yeah, fuck it, we just want to we just want to kill him, like we just want to inhabit this guy's body forever and just torment him like whatever. Well, and then I'm like, well, did she actually get the spirit out at one point? And then yeah, it's I like that they do mess with you, and I like that they show the fantasy or the the dreams or the nightmares as well as the reality. So the whole thing of her dad attacking her and you're just like, oh, wow, is this really happening?

Is he possessed now? And then you suddenly you're like, no, no, she is. This is her vision and then you know, her dad's trying to get in there and everything, and it's kind of a you know, a replay of what was going now with her mom and everything. And then he comes in right in the neck with those fucking scissors, and I like that the scissors become for weapon of choice because I love this whole thing. Like they're so smart when it comes to it's not just the hand that you touch, but there are all of these hand things that are going through throughout the entire movie, you know, like your hands are as big as my hands, those kind of things.

I'm trying to remember. There's like a major one where it's a lot about hands, and then of course scissors being a tool that you use specifically or shaped for your hand. I was like, oh, that's pretty nice. I mean this screenplay definitely has a lot of good stuff in it. Yeah, and you know, I mentioned the foreshadowing where they or she's talking about, you know, not being able to see her reflection at one point, Like it's right, it's done in Like there is so much of the filmic language of this movie is just showing, not telling, and like I don't know, you know, our friend father Malone always talks about that.

I know you talk about it as well, like this movie for me, like it does such a good job of showing and just showing and showing and not telling at all, and that I don't know, you know the reviews that I've seen about the new Exorcist movie again, like seems to have done anything other than shit the bed unfortunately, or I guess let everybody know that David Gordon Green can't direct horror movies. As if you didn't see the last three Halloween movies, guys, Like again, I know that there are people that will roast me. There have been people that have given me a hard time on Facebook about my opinions on those Halloween movies. But David Gordon Green can't direct a competent horror movie as far as I'm concerned.

Give it to people like this, give them an opportunity. You want somebody to go and lead a franchise or something. Give it to people that have interesting ideas about the thing that's already being done, because this is again like halfway to an Exorcist movie as it is, because they're trying to figure out a way to get the spirits out of the brother. At one point, that ends up being part of this story. And if that's not an exorcism, I don't know what it is.

And what's funny is like this movie is so much more successful and is being talked like I haven't even heard anybody talk about the exorcistm I don't even think I know anybody who's gone and seen it. Maybe I know one person. I know plenty of people that have seen this movie. And this movie was suggested to me by somebody else. So I mean, this movie made a lot of waves.

And again, it doesn't have an exorcist, a known you know, property attached to it. It's just its own thing. But yeah, like you said, now it's gonna be Now it's gonna be a thing. Now we have to find out whose hand it is and how it got to this guy. That'll be like the end of the prequel.

Be however it gets to shoot Ducket's brother or Duckett I guess is the guy's name, how he gets to him and then gets to the other guy. It's like, oh my god, I don't need all that stuff. And they'll mythologize and make importance of things from the first movie that did not matter initially. Which is the other thing that always drives me fucking wild. So yeah, but I do want to talk about something and we kind of alluded to it initially trends in horror, and I've been watching some movies to try to prepare myself to have this conversation with this movie.

This for me needs to be the last blank monster as trauma movie, because this does it better than I think any of the other ones I've seen. But that is what that word means. Is that the same as trauma? Yeah, right, the way that Jamie Lee Curtis says it trauma. Did I say it wrong?

Trauma trauma trauma. There's that video of her just saying trauma trauma instead of trauma over over over again. Yeah, because those Halloween movies are all about trauma. It ends tonight, it ends Tonight. Ever dies Tonight, Evil died, God damn Evil dies tonight.

We get it, David. Well, even before that, with those Rob Zombie films where it's like, oh, we have to find out why Michael is the way that Michael is kind off psych abused him, I just don't care. I mean this one, I love that it is so millennial and just so I mean not even millennial. I think it's the younger generation. When is the generation alpha or whatever.

This whole thing is like the hand being attached to your hand, and meanwhile, we've got all these kids with these devices attached to their hands, their cell phones, and I'm just like, that's a really clever thing that I could really think, you know, the whole idea of like bullying, you know how I said, like it almost became the movie about the boy making out what cookie of the dog, Like that whole thing of like delete that video, get that out of here, don't upload that, YadA YadA. I mean, that kind of stuff is almost the It's the thing that can drive kids to suicide and drive them to murder in all these horrible things, just like these fucking demons on the other side of the hand. You know. Just I don't know if they're going for that, but I definitely could write a paper about that.

Well I don't. I don't know if they were going for it either, but I do know that they were trying to again bridge this idea of like deal with your trauma or the trauma will overtake you entirely right like that, And I mean the Baba dook did that? Oh boy, No One Gets Out Alive, which is the movie that just came out a couple of weeks ago. That's aliens as trauma monsters. This is the Demons go Spirits as trauma monsters.

Like Michael Myers was a trauma monster for fuck's sake, Like we need to be done. He's the book man. Yes, it's I shot him six times. Come home, Micah or whatever he says in The New Guy that's supposed to be doctor Loomis, but he's just like the Lebanese Doctor Loomis instead, Uh Hi, I'm here to help you. It's doctor Nick.

I don't. I mean, I get why. It's because of a generational thing. And I'm not going to speak for my generation entirely, but a lot of people that I know, a lot of my friends have trauma, and that trauma is something that we have dealt with. And I'm sure people in your generation dealt with it their own ways, or however they dealt with it, if they chose to deal with it.

One of the ways my generation chooses to deal with it is to turn it into entertainment and turn it into movies and horror movies. Because of the metaphorical nature of the creature that you're dealing with can take a form, but its form is not what it's meant to be. That's just the reality, real representation of it versus the metaphorical representation. And horror is the perfect genre for that. Wait, all of a sudden, for like the last five to six years, it's just been all that all the time, for just any of the big A twenty four movies.

It feels like I've been a trauma monster horror And like I said, Bob a Duk, all these things like stop with the Trauma are yeah, yeah, oh my god. Yeah. You know that begins with her parents killing themselves right being I think they're yeah, or they're murdered. I saw that movie once. It's fine, Like it's just it for me.

I just I'm not you know, The Witch, for all of its problems, is not a trauma monster movie. It is a movie about being different and you know the otherness, which again is a horror movie thing, the otherness of people, and you know what happens when another is no An other is no longer just standing by idly, but decides to go into business for themselves and start murdering people. Like I don't I don't know why we need to rehatch trauma over and over again, But like I think, like genuinely, talk needs to be like it because at some point, like it is really going to be much more diminishing returns than it already is. I don't know if I agree with you on that. I think that horror has always dealt with trauma, and that maybe it's a little bit more obvious these days.

Maybe they should tune it down a little bit, maybe you know, go back to creature features or something where the monster is the boogeyman. Is that trauma is the thing that you're afraid of. But yeah, I think that all horror really deals with trauma in some sort, whether it's you know, the how vampires actually represented sexuality and how you know, the Franknscience monster was all about, you know, motherhood and these things. It's like, okay, I mean, everything has a layer underneath it, but maybe some are a little just more visible than others. I guess I when you put it that way, I guess I'm it's trauma, but like it feels all a specific kind of trauma.

Let me walk this trauma lost trauma as in I lost my Mom, I lost my I mean Boba Dook, we lost our dad this movie, I lost my mom. In Midsummer it's I lost my parents. In the Boogeyman, it's we lost our mom, like it's all this like and then the monster shows up because you couldn't deal with the fact that they're gone and like, and then in this movie it feeds off of it, which I think is for me, that's the smartest way to go. Is you have the thing, and the thing is using that trauma to amplify what's going on. And so it's less specifically about that, but more that is the entry way through which the monster is able to get its hooks into you, as it were, because, like you said, in that scene where the brother begins to smash his face into the table repeatedly, that happens because she says, no, stay in there, please, because it's my mom.

As it go right. You ever heard about blot Have you ever heard the idea that it's it's you're convincing yourself of something you can never know, which is you're putting blind faith into a demon and essentially or a spirit and saying, oh, yeah, I trust you can't trust we you don't know, and you don't know the other side. You know. That's a different topic for a different podcast. But I like that this movie plays with that idea of like, be careful, do not trust a spirit that says I am one thing, because you cannot know for a fact that that is the Yeah, which is what I like that these we don't know these creatures.

We never get their backstory, thank god, because this could so easily also have turned into a Oh well, I hear the sound of water every time the stemon shows up because they were drowned, and now we have to go find the man that actually drowned the demon. You know, it's basically, you know, trying to investigate the tape from the ring. You know, Oh, we're going to go on this whole quest in order to find this and basically it's somebody else's trauma that you know, this little girl was killed by her father and da da da da da. It's like, no, I don't need any of that stuff. I don't need anything other than that these these spirits, these demons are very fucked up and they all have an agenda.

I love it. That's great. You know, maybe it's that all good people go to heaven and what's wandering around and available through this hand are just the malevolent spirits that are left. So are you saying that the hand is kind of like passage to other world Australia. It could be, yes, that is the thing you mentioned, the idea of like what are the what are the spirits doing?

I like to think, you know, my head canon is that they're just as bored as these people are. They're just like, well, if we're stuck here? Yeah, Well it kind of proves out at the end of the movie where she's wandering around the hospital. I almost would have liked it had she wandered a little bit more and then wandered into this party. I did like that you could see the light in the distance.

I was like, Oh, that's the candle. This is nice. This is going to be a good ending. And when it was, I was just like, thank you. This was a very, very perfect way to end this movie.

I think that the way the movie ends is so fucking hilarious. I laughed because it's so mean spirited. Oh is it not. It's like, okay, so you're dead, You've you have saved your friend's life and brought that family back together. Okay, great, but in the process you have you have sacrificed yourself for another.

And now you think you're going to heaven. You're walking towards the light at the end of the tunnel, right, I mean, like you said, light at the end of the tunnel, that's the way I interpret She's walking to heaven, to the other side. And then it's just a bunch of seemingly Greek people. Yes, but they're plates of saganaki and octopus in front of them. And I laughed so hard because I was like, this movie is such a mean spirited movie.

But in the way that this movie the ending, there was no other way it could have ended. There's no other way it could have ended. Yeah, yeah, no, I like your you're ending better because as soon as I saw the light, I was like, oh, that's the candle. I didn't even think about the light at the end of the tunnel. Well, I mean that, you know again, like it's just like I assume that that that the visual language of that is what they were going for.

And yeah, yeah, because again, like it just it makes it so nihilistic. But again, if you have talked to people who are in their early twenties, as I have, as you have, because we exist in a world and don't close ourselves off from people that aren't like us. You know, the way that they feel about the times that we're living in, and they have every right to feel niilist technically, so you know that, like that, that's the thing. This movie feels very true to the people that it's trying to portray in the movie, and it's is it poking fun at them? Of course it is.

They're literally communicating with the other side and making light of it. There are a bunch of ding dongs, but at the end of the day, when you're that age, your world, we were all ding dongs, and that's kind of part of it. So it's like none of us were ding dongs enough to communicate with the other side. Die for it thankfully. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean just that whole thing of like, oh, this is a big lark and we're all recording it and we're all going to share these videos and look at how cool this thing is, and oh boy, I want to try it. I mean, yeah, it's it's drugs, it's whatever you want to make it. It's yeah, it's x it's formerly Twitter. Yeah, I mean it really is whatever you want it to be like. Yeah, but at the end of the day, it does come down to you know, when you're this close to something and you're not willing to respect it, this is what happens, and it comes back to it.

You know. It bites. Be careful, it bites. Yeah. I think though, in terms of like where this movie sits for me as like a modern horror movie, I do think it.

I mean, like I said, I've watched it three times now, so I think it has a level of rewatchability. Worry though, if there will be a backlash after the next movie comes out, if this will be seen as a lesser because of that, which I think is obviously a problem with any horror thing. I, like yourself, would like for this to just have been it, no more, nothing else needs to be said. I mean, you could. I mean, there are plenty of ways to go with this story.

I just don't think it has any need or reason to continue the story of Mia because one of the I think the scene that leaves the lasting impact for me is the scene that's shot from the interior of the car as it's driving down the freeway. Where it's the car that ends up hitting her. And it's such a strange scene, the way that it's shot, the way that it's composed. Again, it's it's like it's from a different kind of movie, but the way that they do it, it feels almost like a Paul Greengrass movie. All of a sudden, you're just in the driver's seat with the driver of the car who is not aware of anything that we've been seeing this entire movie, and then they're thrust into the situation by someone falling in front of their car.

Like, I like that scene, and it's so impactful because again, like it just shows like and the world goes on and you're bringing the rest of the world into your bullshit and now these other people have essentially been complicit in killing you by accident, and it's like that's when the real world hits you in the face. And it's like, I don't know, the movie feels these kids feel so isolated throughout the movie, but when the real things start happening and it starts pushing into their like reality. And Miranda Auto, who we haven't talked about at all, kind of given a thank less role in this movie. Unfortunately, Like yeah, like. It took me a while.

I was like, I know, I know her, I know it makes a really gross fish soup. Oh yeah, yeah, that's stew. You gotta be careful with that. Would you like some more stupid I'm good, I'm arowin, We're good. Yeah, aowen fucking Lord of the Rings, right.

I was so afraid. I don't know if you watch Picard at all, but there's one actress on there that is just super fucking annoying, and she looks a lot like MIA's mom, so I was afraid to look at the credits to see if that was her. Luckily it's not, but I was just like, oh, thank goodness. She is kind of the one underserved character of the movie. She's just she's I mean that and MIA's dad both kind of just you know, they're there because the plot needs them to be there, but they're kind of like the two hanging characters that don't.

I don't know, I don't think their characters were needed any more than they they were given. I mean again, it's not really a story about the interactions between parents and kids as much as it is these kids with the other side and how that intrudes into everything else, you know, because again, when you're a kid, you think you're invincible. I mean, I've been there. All of a sudden, when your friend smashes his face into a table so many times that he's mutilated, that's when the real world has a problem with it. So yeah, I just it's weird because, like Miranda Auto, every time I watch the movie, it's like, oh, right, she's in this movie.

It's just pretty pretty thankless. Horror movie parents tend to be pretty thankless Roles Q cult Klue Gallagher from Nightmare on Elm Street two or you know, I mean, Ellen Burston is one of the few standouts that I could be like, oh yeah, a good parent in a horror movie that isn't just you know, I don't believe you or the secret antagonist, which is you know, half of every horror movie parent is either I don't believe you or I'm in on it somehow. So right, I was really glad that she had that little scene about the party. I thought that was funny and that lightened the mood pretty well. Oh what's the party going to be at?

Oh it's okay, he told me, you know, it's or whatever she's doing to like just fuck around kind of thing. It just thinks everybody's going to this party, and I bet you she really wishes they had, right, Yeah, I am. I'm I'm really glad you enjoyed it. I was actually, you know, kind of worried when we opened this podcast and you were like, well, I'm not I don't really It's like, oh no, I'm glad you enjoyed it though, because again, like for me, it was like, I don't know something about this movie was just kind of like I want more people to see this because I really enjoyed it, and it feels it feels like a movie of like of right now. Like like I said, like I'm worried that in like five years, everybody like, ah, this quaint little movie about you know, gen z Ers from their early two thousands.

But like, I hope that this movie has some some staying power because again I think think I don't know if it has an important message, but I do think it's a very successful horror movie and it does the job perfectly in terms of giving us something that we have seen in a way that we haven't seen. Yeah, like I said, I'm very glad that you turned me on to this movie, So thank you, sir, You're welcome. So yeah, Mike's final thoughts on talk to me again. Just watch it, enjoy it, and be glad that you can have this moment with this movie before it gets ruined by sequels and prequels. Or maybe they'll be good.

Maybe maybe I mean Danny and Michael Philippoo, they did make this movie. I mean, if they're involved. The Conjuring two is pretty good compared to the first Conjuring. James One was directly involved with it. The Conjuring three not so much.

But I don't know, maybe it'll be I don't know. I'm with you though, Like right now, it's just a thing, but not the thing. It's just a thing. There's nothing else. There's literally a handbong you can buy from a twenty four.

There's nothing else. But I mean, yeah, probably two, three, four years from now there will be at least one sequel. Probably, given the way horror goes and the way movies go, there will be two sequels. So yeah, I think for me, I don't need any more than this. But if there's gonna be more than this, just move on to something.

I mean, frankly, if it's me, just move on to something else. We understand the rules of the universe. I don't need to see any more of them. And it's also pretty obvious that now what else is there to tell about this story with this character. She is dead, she is on the other side, she is a ghost.

Now she will never be able to get back to her friends. She got what she wanted, she got what she be careful what you wish for, you may end up getting it. I would be interested to see more of the continued stories of the Hand and maybe what that could mean for other people. But in terms of the characters in this movie, I think it's a pretty good story told one and done. Yeah.

I think the next movie should just all being Greek, right, no subtitles, no subtitles, Yeah yeah, yeah no those The look on the look on the character's face when she sees those Greek guys, just it made me laugh. Wow, movie, you're real. You're a real piece of shit. I you know, I want to end this episode with a question to you do horror movies have to end on a downer because again, you're you're not like the You're not like a super big horror guy. And I know horror fans have a very strong opinion on this.

My old host of this show used to famously say horror movies can have the happy ending, all right, Like, how do you feel about that? Like, is it a requirement that a horror movie sends everybody out on a less than a high note? No, definitely not. I mean I'm thinking like, uh, you know the ends shots of Uh Texas Chainsaw Massacre or the ending I mean Pulter Guy sends on a joke with them pushing the TV set out of the hotel. Bro.

Yeah, the Families United Carolina is safe. You know, we don't know that there's a sequel coming pretty soon. So yeah, it ends on a positive note. And I would say a lot of movies end on a pretty positive note, and yeah, horror movies, I should say, so, Yeah. I don't think it has to even the original Alien and Aliens.

I mean I think each Alien movie ends with the creature defeated. Ish, So we have our happy endings on all those. I mean happy ending for Predator too. What could be a better movie? I feel like there's this weird expectation of horror where it's like people can't get out alive, and I kind of bristle at that, because again, like if you want to be mean and malicious to your characters, there's a time and a place for that.

But like it's for me. If you're going out of your way to do that, you're probably not suiting the story very well. And you know that. For me, I would say, instead of happy or sad ending, send the audience out the way you want to send them. Send them out on whatever note it is you want.

Don't feel like, welly I got it. Got to be a happy ending or a sad ending. There was a movie that I just watched, it Lives Inside, which you'll love this money. It's an It's a horror movie set in the United States with an Indian director in an Indian cast about an Indian monster. I think I might have a screener of that.

Yeah, it's it's okay, but it's another one of those like the monster is representative of something, almost to the point of metaphorical. It gets towards the end, but the director talks about how there are two endings of the movie. And I'm not going to spoil which one they went with and which one they didn't, but they literally say, well, there's a happy ending and a sad ending, and it's like, oh, man, like it just furthers the It furthers this kind of weird conversation of like people bristling at the idea of horror movies being done and they're not being like a stinger at the end or something to like send you out with like a ah man moment, because I mean Friday the thirteenth did that most famously, obviously, So I don't know, I just I'm always just curious to ask that question.

So in that ending of the original Nightmare on Elm Street which you gets sucked through the window, what well, I mean, the original version of the ending with Freddie driving the car I think would have been the funniest version of the ending, but it would have been clearly too much. Instead, Yeah, they just had I rewatch. I always rewatch Nightmare in October, and the ending always makes me laugh with that Ronnie Blakeley puppet pulled, Oh god, getting pulled through the fucking windows. Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean that's a pretty well known horror movie that ends on kind of a that's a doubter of an ending. No oh yeah, yeah, she thinks the creatures defeated.

He's not yeah or he bubbah the end question question mark so so yeah so the end question mark. On that note, will we will take a break and play a preview for the next Culture cast. Critics and audiences are screaming Orburian is a masterclass in horror kind delightfully unhinged. It's one of the best thrillers in years. Barbarian, are not playing only Peter's right.

The next Culture Cast, we're gonna be talking about movie, another contemporary horror movie that came out recently, Barbarian. I have not seen it, but I know that it features Justin Long, who is a welcome addition to any film as far as I'm concerned. That's right, you like Walrus or tuss speaking, I was gonna say a movie that has a rather funny ending that is meant I mean a fucked up funny ending, like I assume we're we're meant to laugh. So and also there's several spots in that movie where we're supposed to laugh. I know you don't like that movie.

There's nobody I get it. I get it, I understand I know that I'm I know that I am a two foot batter in the in the MLB right now. If I'm talking about Tusk, I get it. I understand. I don't understand your baseball reference.

But okay, I don't think it. I don't even think it was a very good one. I'm just saying I'm at an immediate disadvantage because Tusk is a hard movie to like and to suggest. But yeah, Justin Long, I think you like Justin Long. I like Justin Long.

I do. Yeah. I like Mac for sure. Man. That's a good That's a that's a specific reference for a specific time.

And on that episode, I will be joined by Emma, who is one of the co hosts of Scary Stories We Tell and she's never been on a culture cast before, so I'm looking forward to it and I know she is as well. So you can check that out on the next episode. Until then, Mike, where can people find you? And the things that you work? Everything I do is available at weirdingwaymedia dot com.

That includes the Projection Booth podcast, that includes ranking on Bass, that includes Dreams for Sale, The Life and Times of Captain Barney Miller, The Shabby Detective. It's all there, folks. Where else would you want to ever go. Are you doing horror horror movie stuff for October? Well, officially yes, but unofficially I haven't edited any of those.

I'm still putting out September episodes right now. Yeah, sorry, I didn't ask the right question. Well, yeah, but yeah, we've got some shocked Ober titles over there that will eventually come out in November. You know what they say, leave the people asking, leave the people waiting, I say, Well, as for me, similarly to Mike, you can find all the stuff that I work on it Weirdingwaymedia dot com. This show Scary Stories We Tell eightestv Ladies, which is a show that's hosted by Sharing Johnson and Susan Lambert Adam that's nominated for an award because it's a great show and you should check it out.

And yeah, twisted and Uncorked feminine critique, fermentaries. All of those things that you may not even know what they are are available to be listened to and reviewed over weirdingwaymedia dot com. As for this show, like rate and review at wherever you get it more than like it iTunes, and yeah, Patreon dot com. Slash Culturecast is where you can go to support the show. Financially ten, twenty and fifty or the levels that you can get in and if those are things that you're interested in, so head on over there.

Mike, thank you so much for joining me. This has been a lot of fun. As always, Thank you, Chris. I'm really enjoying it and we'll catch you on the next episode.