Valmont

H weird. It's like, would you mind repeating what you just said? Yeah, we got we got Chris Hansen. Yeah, Mike, I mean I've always had a crush on her, but I mean, of course her in Island of Doctor Moreau is all you one of the best ones. But that's well, that's a that's a non creepy one, that's that's a yeah, that's good.

Yeah. But when I think the first time I ever saw her was in gas food lodging, and she was just amazing in that well funny enough, I believe one of the weirding way media members may or may not know for Rusi Bulk or know someone who knows dear rusialk Our dear friend who's not here to see whose names shall not be mentioned, knows the fourteen year old child whose ass makes an appearance in this movie because reason reasons that will get to at some point on this episode of the Culture Cast, I'm still your host Christash too, much to the chagrin of many. I'm joined by my good friend all the way from the projection booth. He is Mike White. Here I am, and there you are also joining me all the way from Mondo.

Heather dot com you've heard Heather here before either drain. Hello, and it's Mike white May, not Mike white March. Mike, you're still programming the movies this month, and we're talking about a movie where Colin Firth lovingly sticks his face into a twelve year old ass. She's not twelve. Also, that's a body double.

Yeah, not to not to kill all the creepy Ted Hugent boners listening, but we get a very clear shot reverse shot between the upper torso and the lower torso. Yeah, thank good. Yeah. Yeah. On this episode of the Culture Cast, we're talking about milosh Foreman movies, and we're still talking about films because it's Mike white May and we're talking about Valmont, which is an adaptation of Injurious Liaisons, which has been adapted plenty of times, but we're talking about this one that's a milosh Foreman one.

So Mike, before we talk about the movie, why are we talking about Valmont? Is I'd never seen it before? Speaking of somebody that's never seen a movie, I've never seen Valmont. So we're catching up with milosch Foreman. That could be the name of our new show, catching up with Milo's Foreman, but he's only directed I mean, what was it like thirteen features or something like that.

It wasn't a ton over his entire career, and this was one of the ones that I just completely missed. And I don't know why, because this one came out in was it eighty nine? I was just about to be working at a movie theater at this time. I was seventeen years old. I don't know why I didn't see this one, because it seems like it would have been necessarily right at my alley.

Watching costume dramas has never been right at my alley. But something about this I just stayed away. I don't know if it was poorly marketed or what it was, but I had just never even bothered to check this one out. This was also a weird period of his career. Foreman's career because he did I'm a Davis in eighty four, this one in eighty nine, and then People Versus Larry Flint in ninety six.

Three movies over twelve years is not really you know, that's kind of almost power for the course for him, though. It takes a long time between movies for him, and that's like you mentioned, catching up with Milosh Foreman would be us going to his grave and going what are you up to now? Nothing? And we have like twenty movies to talk because he's not the most prolific filmmaker. So, but let's get into Velmont.

What could persuade the most beautiful women of their time to sacrifice their faith? Did you like what you did with Monsieur de Valman? You never stopped dear betray their families? When did your husband come back? Does it matter any?

Worry and surrender to the temptations of uncontrollable desire. There is but one possibility. Orion Pictures presents the new film from the Academy Award winning director of Amadeus Milo's Foreman's a tapestry of color and light. We should always be friends? Doesn't that love?

Seduction and a mystery? You know, I keep thinking about one thing, and I thought you weren't interested. Forbidden passion and beguiling deceits. You will leave this house immediately, irresistible danger and uncertain fate. A story as unpredictable as love itself Melosh Foreman's Valmont.

So the film is directed by the aforementioned Melish Foreman, based on a screenplay written by Melosh Foreman and Jean Claude Key carry A. Yeah, you said it last week and I was going to try and say it right and I said it wrong Jean Claude Carrya. And it stars Colin Firth and That Penning, Meg Tilly and the affirm Puisa Ball. Hey, Jeffrey Jones is in there. Wanted to get married to a young person.

Huh, that's just let's just Peter or we'll just overlook that because that's definitely not the actual creepiest part of this movie. And as it were, this movie is a retelling of dangerous liaison. So you have Valmont and the Marquis going back and forth, getting involved in people's lives and just causing havoc, as rich assholes tend to do, because it's always fun to watch rich assholes be terrible to one another, and Belmont slash dangerous Liaisons is no different. So, Heather, I'm gonna kick it to you first, when was the first time you saw this And if it wasn't this time, what do you think then? And if it was this time, what do you think now?

Oh? Well, actually, like my part of the reason I wanted to do this episode is I'd heard of this film for years, but I've never seen it, and I was like, well, this will give me that's the video podcast. Sometimes it gives you the right incentive to be like, Okay, well now I have to watch it. Let me talking about it. So this is I was definitely a first time view for me this year, and I really enjoyed it.

You know, I don't often visit or revisit me loss Foreman's work, but when I every time I do, I'm like, man, he's really good, and it makes me want to see the stuff I haven't seen, and even visit the stuff that I have seen, but it's been years. You know. It's it's I'm a little hit or miss on like costume dramas as far as um just you know, not patient says this sterilely, but it's kind of just like I think people tend to get lost in the beauty of it. But all I can think about is just like for every opulent thing you see, there's a whole lot of like sadness and you know, oppression because the one percent, it's the one percent that's what we're seeing glorified. I'm so glad things have changed now.

But um, we just now it hasn't it hasn't um as a tear side stomacheek. But um, but like you guys said, in fact, one of my notes is, um, I think I was retitling this film. Rich people are terrible col in the movie. Um, and a lot of them are, but they are intentionally terrible here, so I think I was able to handle it a little bit better. Um.

The cast are terrific. I really, Um, you know, I'm not I'm saying that like I'm shocked because we're all great actors. But um, but yeah, and honestly, it's been a really long time that's seen something with the net betting in it because and that's no disservice to her, it's just I think when American Beauty left a very big stain of distaste in my brain. And sadly, the actor that I thought came off best in that thora Birch doesn't really have a bunch of her career thanks to her parents who have utterly fucked her career, which is sad. But she's she's she was great.

I'm sure she still is, like you but um, but no, no, I really I really liked it. Definitely if somebody's wanting to see him movie full of like redeemable characters or likable characters. Yeah, I mean, don't go to any adaptation of the book Linda's own dangerous. But this is no exception about you, Mike. Since you mentioned you'd never seen it before, what do you think now, Well, I'm kind of glad that I saw it.

Yeah. The cast is stacked from head to toe. I can't believe you didn't mention the Reverend Mother being in this movie. Sean Phillips herself every time she's folk. I just kept waiting for her to use the voice, you know, when she is commanding Henry Thomas in here.

I was just like, you know, waiting for her to be like put your hand in the box, the rap from the heart, she using the voice. Yeah, yeah, And I was so glad to see Ian mcneieson here. Everybody was doing a really good job. T P. McKenna.

I need to look up him a little bit more. He played the baron in here. I really recognized his voice, but I didn't recognize his face. So I know I know his voice from something or he just was so costumed up and had the facial hair and stuff. It wasn't really getting that, but yeah, I think I was pretty darn happy with this one.

It's been a long time since I've seen Dangerous Liaisons, which came out what a year prior to this, which was the adaptation of the stage play. This is more an adaptation and not even of the book. This is an adaptation of Milosh Foreman's memories of the book, because he was when he went to see Dangerous Liaisons the play on stage, he was like, Wow, this is so different than my memory of the book. Then he read the book and was like, yeah, no, this my memories were so wrong. But I think he relied on his memories for this more than anything else.

He liked his story better than what was actually written down. And you know, as far as I know, it's actually fairly accurate. There's a couple changes here and there. But when it comes to Dangerous Liaisons, I mean that movie that was the movie where I fell in love with John Malkovich. He just he's such a fantastic bastard in that movie, and one of those where you're like you look at Malkovich and you're just like, yeah, this guy isn't really traditionally attractive, but he is so fucking sexy and dangerous liaison, so you're like, Okay, I buy I buy him with these younger women and older women, any woman that comes across his path, which is remarkable because you look at Colin Firth and you're just like, this guy's traditionally handsome.

Yeah, it's not going to be a problem for him at all as Valmont to bed anybody that he wants, but he is very hesitant to do that in this one. He doesn't seem to revel in the debauchery. He doesn't seem to be such a libertine as the other characters, though of course he gets there. He definitely gets there. I was going to ask you guys what you thought about that casting, because I like Colin Firth a lot, but I don't know if I was really I don't know.

I had troubles buying him as being able to bed down everybody, and even though he is traditionally good looking, I don't know if it was the baby Bangs, it could be Yeah, who did anger? Who did he anger? Because he is a traditionally good looking man, and I've seen him in movies where I'm like, he can get it. Yeah, but it was that hair was all and not everybody had bad hair like Henry Thomas. I'm sure that was the wig, but it looked good.

You know, it didn't work to get wet. You know, once he got into the water. I was like, uh, yeah, a beaver is gonna start mating with it. He gets in the water, that beaver's gonna be more of a libertine than them all. And to be fair, i mean we mentioned oh he gets wet like and the wig looks bad like wet for ten it's like, oh yeah, it's like a ten minute scene.

Like it's not just like two minutes of this. Yeah, it's yeah, Well, what's weird is like that's a moment where the production design kind of fails the movie because for me, as again the three of us have never seen it. I hadn't seen it either. End. I'll level with you guys, this is the kind of movie that I'm not.

I'm not a costume period piece guy at all. Like I It's it's not something that attracts me to see a bunch of like rich shittheads be shit heeads to each other that I can get down with. But like big dresses and all these wigs and stuff like for me, it's not necessarily something that gets me going. So when I realized what this was, I was like, Okay, I'm interested because sam Elish Foreman and I don't know this. I don't know the story, so I didn't know we're doing.

I had never seen any adaptations of dangerous liaisons ever. I haven't even seen cruel intentions. If you could believe that. Whoa, I haven't either. Whoa.

Wow, that was like a cultural phenomenon. Guys. Yeah, I mean I yeah. I just remember to came out and I was like, I'm good, especially because everybody was like, dude, dude, Sarah Michelle Geller like Max out with Selma Blair and it's like, oh yeah, cool beans. I don't know.

I just it didn't I don't know, it did not intrigue me. Plus Ryan Philippe looked like an Ampercrombie and Fitch model. I don't know. I mean, at that point in my life, I was already I was already a true libertine. Meaning meeting I was like, that's so, that's for the mall crap.

I was probably to l and Elita's teenager about it, but I was definitely la stage. Oh, I know, I was. I'll cop to that, no problem, I was. Yeah, I mean I was already like being like, I'll go home and watched my VHS copy of Orgy the Dead and I did that's being it's libertine. I picked that up from Suncoast Video, so you know me so well.

I was watching Clamshells Disney VHS is at the time, so oh yeah, yeah, well you're you're also, I mean, if you're watching Orgy that age even I have limits. Yeah, like dude, but I don't. I don't know this story, so I didn't know where this was going or the journey that we were going on with the characters. I will say I enjoyed it for them. I think it's a little long.

I think it's like about twenty minutes too long. It clocks in and around two hours and seventeen minutes. I think it could have been shy of two hours and still gotten the point across. H Well, the one thing my wife pointed out was there's no come uppance for the Marquis. Okay, I want to a Benny character like her come uppance is yeah, that she is left alone at the end and she has nobody, and really her perfect mate would have been Belmont.

They were equally dastardly, So okay, um, I'm all right with that. I thought that it worked well with her being isolated in the crowd at the end and everybody else seeming to, you know, kind of get what they want, except for maybe Meg Tilly. Meg Tilly. I the Jerry is still out for me. I'm Meg to Tilly.

Whether I think she's actually good actress or not, I can't figure out if she is because half the time I'm like, oh, Wow, she's really good. In the other half, I'm like, she's just so awful in this. Oh I love I really, I really loved her this. I have like such a saf spot for birth Tillies though, like I always have. Um, and she's the lesser Tilly for me.

Well, I mean, Jennifer's like they're both gorgeous, but mctillie's kind of like the quiet, refined beauty, and Jennifer's like like she's like, bamn, Like that's a she hers Valmont I could get And I'm like, yeah, she's hot, she could get that, but um, and she she could probably get away with baby bangs as opposed to poor poor Colin for seriously, Christ, Like Jean Simmons has better wigs than that, Like yeah he angered somebody, Well that looks better now, like yeah, it's a hundred prow like you're supposed to. You're supposed to theoretically look better when you're younger, at least for the industry that they're in. And it's like he looks ridiculous in this movie, like I don't believe yeah, yeah, how many of these women are throwing themselves at him?

Like at all? Not that I believe Ryan Leap is having women throw himself at him. Oh hell, but those kinds of women in that movie make more sense than the women in this movie being like, hey, Julian Sands, yeah, oh god, yeah, Julians have been so much better. Yeah, oh that would have been. I like Julian Sands more in non speaking flashback roles.

I like him in all roles. I love Julian Sands and that oh my god him him er yeah Rucker, like oh yeah, well Michael Ironside, Oh my god, right, yes, yes, yeah, yeah, oh, Jeremy irons I mean, even if you're gonna go for you know, some more non traditional casting give yourself with Kevin Klein. You know we're gonna go for chill cast mates, Yeah, oh god please, oh oh, that's just ruined my like swooney romance feels. I was thinking of Michael Ironside, I was thinking of Julian Sands. I was getting the apers.

I was a very happy, like feminine place, and then you mentioned the big chill and now the beta pause said, oh, here's another one. Jeff Goldblum in nineteen eighty nine. Jeff Goldblum in this role. Oh right, yes, and you know that motherfucker can look really good because this is right around the time of like, uh, oh my god, now I want Charles Rocket in this. See what you did to me?

Oh we can ring Jeff Goldblum dictating that note to oh yeah. But by the way, when I said I don't know if she's good in this, I meant in any movie I'm watching her in because there are times where because I think she she pulls off like Agnes of God, she pulls offs like, oh two, you know, she can be really good. It's just certain times I'm like when I'm watching a movie with Meg Telly, I'm like, she good. I can't tell, like like that able for our Body Snatcher's movie. I'm just like, I can't tell she's good or nap.

But at the same time, she's supposed to be a little cold and emotion list and she just, yeah, she's that ethereal. She's the sister who's in the back of the class writing poetry, as opposed to the other sister who's like back there writing notes and passing along and looking to get fucked after school. That's an oddly specific reference. Very sorry, tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I don't understand what her deal is in this movie, And I'm with you.

I was just like what it was like, are you just trying to be disinterested or I don't know, like what your fucking dear it was. It was it was the same vibe I get from like a Robin Right where it's like, why are you so a loot? Like yeah, like Robin Wright is like the queen of being a loot and distant and cold, like I think that's her like vibe. Obviously. Yeah, I'm not seeing Megtillian enough things to have an opinion other than she's the weakest of the main cast in this other than Colin, who I just don't understand, Like, and he does a fine enough job, yeah, yeah, enough to be like that's the question.

Like then that the question I have in the story is what what is drawing all the women to the character of Valmont and in the dangerously aizons I'm assuming he's like a good looking guy. Oh no, he's well no, no, no, I mean like in the story though, like is it is it like he's a good looking guy. I'm not talking about the movie. I'm just talking about like the base text. He's like a good looking guy.

So that's why he's like betting down all these women. I'm so why make him look like a yeah yeah, It's like I don't it's hard for me to believe he's like this ladies man that everybody is worried about him, like doing all these things, and he looks like a door like and then he also acts like he acts subservient to the Marquis. It's like he doesn't have his own autonomy, which I feel like is a melosh Foreman thing that I don't think works, because the point is they're both supposed to be equally terrible and not one is slightly sympathetic. Like that doesn't work. Because he needs to be.

He rapes a child, end of story. That is what happened. I don't know how else to put it. How was he supposed to be a likable character? Is kind of what I'm driving at, Like, there's no way.

Yeah, I think I think you're going a little crazy saying you're raped the child. She was fifteen. He just tossed her salad. She was all into it. Yeah, I'm sorry.

I hear the silk with shower calling my name. Salad gets used a lot in this day and age. That's what they're singing about in that Frasier song, Salad Frasier notorious ass. Oh god, yes, yeah. When he's not falling off the stage, he's falling face verst in the ass.

He's like, oh, give me some of that that Republican fundamentals, Christian money, money asked. I just have a hard time believing that character. Is the way he's presented. I could believe Byan Philippe, I could believe John Malkovich. Colin Firth is just you're too you're too nice, seeming dude, like you seem too nice, Like sorry, that's just you.

Right. Well, I'll tell you another one of his Mama Mia. Colch stars, I could have pulled off this role even with Pierce brosnet Zach. Guy's fucking amazing looking and has been for his entire life. Yeah, and he can kind of play aloof a little bit better.

Yeah, and he can play a scoundrel like nobody's business. So, because that's the thing, I think Colin Firth is a little too nice overall. And I don't know, like I think he to your point from earlier, Chris, he's more attractive now than he was back then, because even to the point of him in the Bridget Jones Diary movies, I'm just like, I don't think he's all that, you know, but now i'd be like, oh yeah, I wouldn't kick you out of bed. Like one he started to get a little bit older and more gravitas and started doing like the Kingsman movies, and he's kind of things like the King's speech. I'm like, Okay, yeah, this guy's really handsome.

But one thirty years ago, more than thirty years ago, I'm like, okay, he's a handsome, traditionally handsome guy, but there wasn't just enough there for me to sink my teeth into. Why not just cast Hugh Grant and call it good. No I do, no, no, what's wrong with you Grant? Yeah, he's too ponsing. He is pretty pon He's like, oh, oh, can you lick your bomb?

I don't know, he's you know, the worst you're with a snap? No no no he oh no, I could not get what. He's a little prissy. He's way too pressy, like he doesn't I mean, Malkovich has like what scholars call bd e Oh fuck. Yeah, he's got massive, big dick energy, like like he's like the hog like so I buy and buy it.

I I don't buy Colin Firth having a huge dick. I don't know. I Farrell, dam Yeah he looks like a man che chee though Alan Farrell, Yeah, I don't see that. Yeah, Like, I mean he's he's a good actor. I'm not I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

It's just ah but you said Michael Ironside and I'm just like my mind looks he does he does? And christ what where's the lie? He's like a good looking man chiche but um but yeah, no, Colin Forth like as his Balmont. I feel like he would like probably cry a little like after he climaxes. I don't know he's that sensitive, but he's like, I don't see him lasting that long.

And I definitely don't buy this character, this iteration of it, even knowing what a clitterist this like, I feel like, what is that little thing there? Oh god, it's like looking Harry reams and deep throat there. It's just this a little blugger. And the problem is like that Colin Firth is like one of your main characters. So he's on screen a lot.

Yeah, and I just gotta wonder what foreman was seeing behind the camera. He's like, yeah, this work, this works for what I'm remembering the story, as I guess he's remembering it as this kind of lilting, more effeminate guy because he kind of like presents a little effeminate too. It's oh, oh, what would you who would you like to marry? Okay, now I want Matt Barry. Holy shit, Now he could do Valmont.

Yeah, I'm more believable than Colin Firth. And he was immensely more sexual energy at all ages. Plants bloom around. Matt Barry could be the dead of Winner. There's like tulips and orchids and the bees are passing.

I mean, I did see that in a lot of the reviews at the time that people were like, it's hard for me to watch this movie where people are being terrible to one another. Oh you read the source material dings like it's so easy. I mean I kind of enjoy when they're being terrible to each other and have these awful bets with each other. And I mean I agree with you, Heather as far as in that Benning. I mean, it was kind of a one two punch for me between Bugsy and then American Beauty.

She had been in some really good things like The Grifters, you know, but yeah, just she never you know, she was good in The American President, which was an okay movie Richard the Third who's really good in but she is great to me in this movie, and especially when she is laughing right in Valmont's face, like, yeah, this really works. While she is evil in a great way. Oh, she's super sexy too, Oh so sexy, especially that first time we see her when she has just had sex with Jeffrey Jones and she's kind of splayed out, but all the bits are covered by the pillows and things like, this is really cool, and I love that nice reveal when Sean Phillips is saying, oh, yeah, he currently has lover but trying to get rid of her.

She's a little and like does the little hand thing like she's cuckoo, you know, not the circle, but you know, just like the little by the forehead. And when it's revealed that it's him, I was like, oh, that's really nice. There were a few moments while I was watching this where I laughed out loud, and that was definitely one of them. Oh God, okay that Actually, you know, as much as we're kind of ripping Colin for he is infinitely more believable as Valmont than I'm buying Jeffrey Jones as being the reason that Annette Bennings character is its orchestrating this elaborate, tragic web of deceit like Jeffrey Jones this period, Like, okay, we'll put out anything we know about his real life stuff, right, great character act.

I've always enjoyed seeing him in movies, especially before I knew certain things. But but you know, I love him a beetlejuice. You know, it's great in Deadwood. Yeah, it's great. A lot of stuff am I buying Jeffrey Jones as this man that is so powerful of a lover that Annette Bennings character is helping on revenge because he has scored her.

I don't even get it that she's met, that he's such a great lover. I feel like he's a social stepping stone. But I also just that anyone would dare do that to her as what I was picking up, rather than it that it's him. But I can see your point as well. Yeah, for me, it was just, how dare any motherfucker do this to me?

I'm going to lay waste and her whole thing of I want you to to flower this little girl so that when he marries her, he's the laughing stock of all of Paris. And I'm like, okay, that's great motivation, just to fuck somebody over. Okay, Okay, that that tracks a little bit better because I was like, Jeffrey Jones, I'm like, God, I'm with you. It's like, yeah, even his real life stuff aside, it's just you're a you're a stern authoritarian type character actor and or the dufest character actor, Like it's kind of your that's kind of your lanes. This character is he's not in it enough really to matter, and they don't ask him to do much, so at least there's yeah, but I'm with you.

It's like all this for that, I know. Yeah, And this is one of the few holdovers from Amadeus because he was Emperor Joseph the Second and that one that's of course, you've got Skiavelli in here, which is fantastic. I love when he shows up and my wife is laughing a little bit. She's just like, he's so specific to our age that he looks weird in this wig. And I was like, well, for me, he's always oh, he's always him.

But he was great in the beginning of Vamadeus when he's trying to you know, bang down Sally or his door and all this to set up the whole flashback sequence. Yeah, I buy him in this, and I especially I love the whole idea of the kind of dowager empress character who just keeps falling asleep and waking up being so confused, like where's my table, what's the has like the cards in her hands? Still? Yeah, you know, so there are For me, there's a lot of things that work in this, and I think overall, I was pretty good with this movie. There are the weak moments of casting, and like, I kind of forget about Meg till even being in this movie.

He Velmont just glombs onto her so quickly, and she just becomes like this. She should be just a sexual conquest. He should be just there saying, oh my god, she's so gorgeous. I want to fuck this lady. But instead he ends up kind of falling in love with her, and that scares him off, and I'm like, yeah, I don't that.

I don't buy necessarily, Like I kind of like that, you know, he starts to have actual, real feelings, but at the same time, he doesn't seem as cold as he should. It feels like they should have made him more of a villain so that way, when his facade starts to crack with Meg Tilley than to be a real revelation, like oh wow, this guy who can't love anyone is finally starting to love her. And instead he just seems so upset about stuff. We Oh, I can't believe I did this to Cecil. I can't believe I did this over here, And oh, Cecile should really be with her boyfriend and he's really so nice, and I'm like, yeah, I'm not buying that.

Like, I like the whole thing with the letters, the competing letters going back and forth to each other, that it's him Valmont and the Marquess who are really speaking to one another, but they're using these children to write the letters for them, write the words for them. And the way they're passing these things back and forth. I thought that was great. I thought there were some really good moments here. Um.

And yeah, overall, but I mean, if we start to really look at these pieces, it's like, yeah, these are kind of like you're building a house with some rotten wood. You know, It's like I really shouldn't use this, but will it hold up the structure? Sure, but it won't last forever. As soon as you start to look at it, then the whole thing crumbles. Wow, that's a fantastic metaphor.

That's no. I mean, seriously, that's a great that's a great descriptor. It nails it. Um. Yeah, And I think as far as like the speaking of the casting, I really did.

We mentioned Fruze Balk at the beginning. Everybody should love for Ruzi Bolk. I mean that's um, this is an actress I feel like I've literally kind of grown up with because you know, you have, Yeah, I have. I mean because she and she's just I think she's just like a few years older than me. But it's like I remember being a little kid and watching her in The Worst Switch and really identifying with her, and of course returned to oz and um and then you know, you get into the goth teenage goth period in the Craft everything, and you know, she's always makes me smile.

She's such a talent. Um and she showed me her boobies and I liked it. Yeah, exactly, that's my entry point. She's the fucking Waterboys girl. Yeah she's amazing.

Yeah, but um, but she like and she's so she's great here. But it's like it's so disturbing because she not only looks every bit of rage when she was fourteen when she was in this movie, she looks younger than fourteen, Like at the when at the wedding she legit looks like the child empress or princess from Never Ending Story. Like it's like I'm like, she's right next to Jeffrey Jones. It's like, oh god, this is well, this is not right. But that's accurate.

I mean that's how people were back then. Well and not to be crass, but would he have been into her or would he have been more into Henry Thomas. I was trying not to bring the real life stuff. Oh y, but now my thought my brain did go there watching that, like and I'm not proud of that, but you're right, Um, Harry Thomas is really good, Like he's really good. Yeah, I've enjoyed it's uh yeah, I really enjoyed him as Darsny, who's like such a like he really kind of nails that because he's seventeen, but he nails it think where he's almost a dude, like almost imaginally dudeum but now almost that's the great Britney Spear song.

Almost a dude but not quite a boy kind of yeah. But no, I mean he's like pretty much like he's all you know, he's more of an adults certainly than cecial um. But he has like a good strength about him, like he and he's somewhat honorable like you know until well until until Anette Pinning gets her you know, her hooks and to him, yeah, her feminine charms. But I love that he's still kind of a ship head, like when she is doing the harp thing at the end, like singing the song that he wrote for her, and she screws up the fingering again and he has to point it out rather than just letting her go. And then that poor thing where she's like, I'm ready to have sex with you?

But how many more verses of this song? I no, there's twelve more verses. She's just okay, and I love that. I love that she's just ready to get down. Yeah, no, that was and then like yeah, because I think it might be there's probably three truly likable characters in this movie, and that'd be cecil Um Rosamond Valmont's aunt.

Yeah, I love her. I love her, and Annette Benning's made Victoire because when she's she's spying on a these two who have been totally set up in this like very libertine boudoir with all this like sort of like sexy Goya almost like saucy Goya type paintings. I mean, like as sexy Goya. She's, um, but that's next week we talked about sexy sexa um. But uh, but like she's at like, oh, how are they doing it?

She's like nincompoops, Like she's like rolling her eyes, like look at this nerd over here, Like if this was made like in the eighties, he'd be rolling his eight sided die be like no, no, no, no sex until we find out like are you a cleric? Like how much dexterity points? So we got you know, he's doing that equivalent to it, which which kind of makes me love him though. It's like, yeah, he's really dedicated to his craft. I just like seeing him in things outside of et Like I again, I haven't seen him in a whole lot of stuff.

I know he's kind of he's working now with Mike Flannagan a lot, but he's good. It's that, you know. It's like you guys have mentioned, he has to he has to play a dope, like part of his role is being a dope, just like haru'sa Bulk is kind of a dope because she's being played by these two people who are again seemingly smart than them, or at least so they I've not honestly, most of the people in this movie, outside of Eruza Bulk, I haven't seen them in a lot of stuff or seen a lot of their movies, Like Annette Benning, Like, I mean, I'm not going out of my way to watch their movies. I don't think I've seen another Annette Benning movie other than this one, at least not that I can remember. Well, you know which one's not to see because Mike and I have stared.

Yeah, clearly she's the best part of this movie, Annett Benning, because she just revels in being a shiitead like it's just yeah, it's the it's the energy that Colin Firths should have had. It's the energy that the malmont roll should have had, the opposite of hers should have just been the male equivalent, not even the opposite, just she needed a male equivalent to match that dastardly energy. When she's sitting on the bed her legs spread, just getting out of the tub, and she's like begging him on and he won't do it. Like I know that the narrative presents itself in that way and he's not going to make his presence to her felt. But I didn't believe he was even tempted in that moment, Like, and that's the problem, Like, I don't believe that scene because their chemistry together is not great either.

She is always in control in all of those scenes, is what I mean. Ultimately, it seems like Valmont is as much of a dope as the rest of them. In the end, It's kind of what it seems like, and I get the sense that the narrative as it is normally presented, that's not that. Yeah, I can't really speak to that because it has been so long since I've seen any other adaptation. It doesn't seem like that would be the case in face.

Yeah, it's it's weird to make this character sympathetic at any because the things that this character is doing, even making that bet with someone of like, oh I want to to flower someone like, that's not the bet a sympathetic character is made. It's just not like I don't know how you could get behind that. I don't think any of us could. So's it's the weird thing. It's like I almost wish the movie had gone further and Foreman hadn't kind of done what he does.

I mean, that's the thing. I mean, we kind of haven't talked about it, but like, there is a lot of formani isms in this and gets very a lot of naturalistic lighting, a lot of I guess technically impressive stuff going on. This comes out obviously in the shadow of Amadeis. I think Amadeis is, but oh yeah, this movie in that movie, same DNA. I mean again, period pieces, pomp and circumstance, large fucking wigs, big costumes, it's all there.

It's just this kind of feels like diminishing returns, like we're going back to the world of high society. Well, and I mean this was yet another film that he shot well. Miroslav under Check shot this one as well as Hair and Ragtime and I'm Adeis, which I think are probably his best looking films of his whole filmography. I mean, the guy was trained at Baron doof he had done a whole lot of great stuff. He shot IF for Lindsay Anderson, so I think, you know, he definitely knew what he was doing, and I think it was a really good team behind Foreman.

M B. Yeah. I agree that reading turned around the uh the Foreman quote quote autobiography. I know who wrote it with somebody else, but it felt like his heart really wasn't into this one. I mean, the chapter is really very short.

He I don't even think he mentions Colin Firth or he barely talks about him. He doesn't even talk about some of the other casting stuff, like he does talk about how they actually offered the anet bending role to Oh No, they didn't offer them a net bending role to Michelle Phifer. They offered the Meg Tilly role to Michelle Phifer, and I think that's the role that she ends up playing in Dangerous Liaisons from the year before, So that was would have been interesting, but she knew enough to say no. But yeah, they didn't talk about how Henry Thomas was almost Will Wheaton, but the Star Trek people wouldn't let him out of his tract to go shoot the movie or wouldn't work around the schedule for him to shoot it.

I think that's a huge missed opportunity for Will Wheaton. I think he actually would have been good in this as well. Though to our earlier point, Henry Thomas really kicks ass in this role. I think he's terrific. Yeah, I agree, are one of the right spots.

And again I don't dislike this movie, but I didn't enjoy this movie as much as I feel like I would have the casting choices had been a little bit more well thought out, and you know, I looked at Colin Firth at the time, it's like I don't, like, well, the things he was working on were similar to this, and I know that obviously for a lot of people, mister Darcy, Pride and Prejudice and stuff, but that's after this, Like that's not oh yeah, that's like four years after this. So it's just weird to me because like, this is not the kind of role that Colin Firth would would have and should have ever been cast as period. Well actually you mentioned Pride and Prejudice, not to continue my fantasy booking of this cast, but Alan Rickman, oh boy, yeah, yeah, he would have killed it.

Yeah, because he's sexy and he could play dastardly and super friendly all at the same time. Yeah, that's really good. Heather's do you want to go a completely different Yeah, I could see that like weird manic energy that Like again, like I just feel like there needed to be something that and that Benning could play off of that didn't feel like her just controlling every scene that she's in. Because that's yeah, because all of these actors that we're naming could really given at Benning what four they would be equals to her whereas Firth feels like he's subordinate, right, which is a problem for this for this kind of story. And look, they're they're only two years apart.

But he looks so like just like out of place in this movie, and he just doesn't think he doesn't fit, and he doesn't fit from the moment you see him, and then by the end of the movie you're like, this guy has been vehicle through which so much of this has happened, and yet he feels like a bystander in a movie where he is titular character. It should have not been his move. Well, And the one thing is there are times for having like a two hour running like running time that I feel like there was something almost like something was missing. It's almost like I don't know because it's like, I mean, it's almost like when he spoiler realistic, but like he gets killed in the duel between him and Darsony, the Henry Thomas character, and it's almost like he's almost setting up almost like a proxy suicide because he goes in loaded, yeah, has these three dudes.

He doesn't even know that he got out of some really amazing looking sketchy bar I loved I love those people. That was like some pirate bar realness going on there. But um minus, I mean, there's no rape. Thankfully had to go to Yellowbeard. As we've talked about previously on the culture, doctor's nickname in this movie.

Oh that's doctor raped to you. Way yeah but uh but um but uh but it's like, okay, well if he and I didn't even really buy him falling for Meg Tilley's character that much, right right, Like that just seemed I'm like diddy, like he still kind of seemed like he was a ship and then he was like sad for like a second. And again it's like, well, I don't call him Firth as a good actor, and I didn't and I liked I liked him fine in this movie. But it's almost like, if you're going to play a villain, you need an actor who can bring the layers, because it's not that you could have a film that centers around a character who is not obviously a saying and in fact who's done some really amazingly horrible things like I mean, if you really want to go like the really darker and you could look at something like you know, I don't know, like Maniac, which I was Spinell, like that character is literally a serio killer.

But Spinnell is able to bring layers to where there are times for you do if that's sympathy, you have something where you're like, this guy's a human, like this is a human being. You need an actor um that is able to bring the various shades of gray from the very darkest, you know, because I mean, you're fucking with people's lives like you're you're and I mean in that day and age, you know, to ruin a woman's reputation, she's screwed because women are valued. I mean literally back then, it's just like you're you know, you're either a whore or your madonna. It's the literal thing. And if you are viewed as a whore your throne, you know, you're just completely you've brought ruin on your family and all of that.

So it's like so playing with those kind of dice back then it seems really really awful, and especially to have a fourteen year old kid. And that's the other thing. Cecil isn't even portrayed as like being like overly curious or worldly or even semiworldly. She has been sheltered in convent she at times we see her earlier playing with him like little kids ado like a child whole yeah yeah, and then she gets defensive but she's like, I've got a child, but that's what kids say. Yeah.

And so her being even portrayed, I'm not saying like it would be less creepy if it's like she's more worldly, but it's like she's portrayed even younger than what we normally would associate with fourteen, and that just makes it even more just like really gross. And you know, it's just and yet he's not portrayed as being this like really shadowy guy, you know. And it's like I feel like that's and and and it's like it's not Colin First's fault. I think he does fine for what he can do, but it's like, yeah, I mean the more thing about you guys are right. I feel like they should have they should have had an actor who could bring the various layers where it's like at times you're like this guy is gross, but you're still kind of drawn to him.

There's still like some kind of weird, kind of dysfunctional magnetism going on. A real quick one to bring up the unofficial sequel to this movie, which was the music video for zz Top song Breakaway, which starts both Fruzi Balk as a female vampire and Vincent Shiavelli as the head vampire in a very brief role. Yes, this whole video six minutes and fifty seconds long, and she have Ellis been there for maybe thirty seconds, but great to see him show up. And yeah, and Fruzi Balks looking real good as a female vampire in there. Oh my god, how have I not seen this?

I have never even heard of it until tonight when I was looking at her filmography. I was much more in that eliminator era, so this was a little bit past that. The other thing I wanted to bring up real quick was I knew I recognized him, but it took me until tonight to confirm that Ronald Lacy is in Valmont. He plays one of the footman type guys, that is, the guy that plays Toth in Raiders of the Lost Dark, the guy who's burns the medallion into his hand, the headpiece for the staff of Raw. And I was so glad because you can hear it in his voice is where one of those white wigs, and you know, looks very Victorian or whatever this era is, and yeah, well I finally was like, oh yeah, Like as soon as I heard him speak, I was like, oh, that's the guy from Raiders Have Lost Art.

I like you mentioned him. You mentioned Ian McNeese as well. I wish. I wish that he was in it more. I wish that because it seemed like there was an interesting dynamic between him and Colin Firth.

Yeah, he doesn't get explored because it's like there's something going on there and it's not made very clear. But it's like Ian mcneese's character has a little bit more invested in Valmont, and I think we realize because there's that scene at the end where he's there for the duel and like you can tell like that you essentially see the reaction on his face. You don't get to see what happened. But it's like, why are we just now seeing it this with this character, Like you should have been giving give this character a little bit more time for us to understand how big of a deal this is going to be when he watches his probably his master murder. But I don't know with an actor like Ian McNeice, who is fantastic in every right like he somehow makes a Dune TV adaptation better than it should.

Yeah, not bearable, but okay, right, I don't know, like I feel like my biggest takeaway from this movie is maybe Melo Schfeman part wasn't in it, which is what it seems like. And it kind of feels like it doesn't feel like a paint by numbers movie, but it feels like good enough. This is a good enough which is fine. Not every movie has to swing for the fences, but you get all these people together, with all these costumes and all these like these immense amounts of setup or production and it's just okay, Like that feels like a shame. Well, and it was also an unmitigated disaster, like we talked about box office bombs.

Estimated budget of thirty three million dollars, final box office one point one million dollars. Yeah that's rough. Yeah, as also good lord, it's hard for me to like films when I after a point where I know how much they cost and I'm like that could have like that could have funded like so many like better low budget movies, or could have like I don't know, like fed a small country Like oh wow, I mean it's beautiful to look at. But that's the I don't tend to like movie set in this period for some reason. I actually think I like Valmont more than others.

But um but I actually am fairness. I haven't seen Dangerous Lysons. I do think Amadeus is better, but it's been years since I've seen Amadeus. But it did give us Fop yeah, and it gave us Falco. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm joking that. Don't anybody commenty to me, be like, oh, that wasn't in the movie. I know, but I because of the Amadeus renaissance that was going on there, Yeah exactly. I really do recommend that you both check out Dangerously Aisons. It will.

I mean, Glenn Clothes has been in a lot of things that I just don't care for, but she was amazing in that. Like I said, Malkovich is incredible. This was a young Kanna Reeves playing basically the Henry Thomas part. He's fantastic. Everything just hits in that movie.

At least that's my memory of it. Now. I probably haven't seen it since ninety eight, but I remember really liking it as Peter Capaldi in it, and he's probably not saying horse Cock. Well, now I don't want to see it. Thanks, Yeah, boy, I just wonder if Keano is doing a terrible British accent like he wasn't dry.

I remember him being very stiff in it, but it actually kind of works. So yeah, have even one of you seen, because the one actually I definitely want to see is I saw. I watched the trailer for it earlier. It was the Roger Vadim adaptation from sixty two. But you have Jeanjeanne Moreau as the as the Trail or Motreil character, but looks like it's set in then current time, and it's got this great jazz music attached to it.

I actually that's the modern day adaptation I want to see. I'm I don't ever need to see Cruel Attentions. I'm sure people love it, that's fine. It's just there's so many other movies I'd rather want in this world, you know, But I do. I do need to see Dangerously Isans.

I like Stephen Freers too, who I believe didn't he direct that I think he did, But he's cool, he's good people. I don't know. I don't know if I need to see any more of this story I mean again, like this in my mind, like, is this Romeo and Juliet level? No, but it has that like feel to it where it's like high level things going on and then at the end of it, everybody ends up dead. I mean that's kind of what it feels, right Like that's and I agree with you.

Stephen Freers is a better is probably better suited for this kind of source material than milosh Foreman is because Stephen Friers directed High Fidelity, and he's directed a lot of other things that are more about like people in the relationships that they have with other people, and melosh Foreman, while he does direct those kinds of things, this just seems like a weird thing for him to have done. Like even with the things I've seen of melosh Foreman, it's like, this is a very weird melosh forman. Like I know it's a melosh Foreman movie because I was Vincent Skia Elliott. That's what it feels like at this point to me. It would have been more interesting had they and I think Heather you brought up one of the servants, Like, had they spent more time with the servants and the servants are the ones because that feels like a check film is the servants realize just how shitty all of these people are, and they're the ones that are basically making fun of them.

It's almost like, you know, like rules of the game, you know where you've got, Yeah, here's the upper echelon and they're doing all their stuff. But really, the servants and that whole story and the way that they interact between the levels, I think that's that would have been a little bit more interesting than this Oh yeah inside of me right exactly. Yeah, well, especially because we have we get we do see that one um, the one of the female servants that Cecile like her and her mother have that like looks at Cecil so lovingly when she's doing her recital, and at one point when the mother's looking for her and she says to her, she she only goes to Mademoiselle Motrell. Now she never talks to me anymore, and it's like, oh, they had a friendship.

That's so sweet and it makes you know, so yeah, that's the Yeah, I feel bad. It's like, I like mctille. But it's almost like they almost could have just cut that out because the arc doesn't really go anywhere. Also, did anybody else expect it to go like full Thomas Hardy levels and just see like her swinging from the rafters because she gets real clingy. That's the other thing, too, is like you one hundred percent believe she is in love with him when she finally is like together with him, right, and she's like wanting to make him food and all this and yeahs that the market is adorable and just the way she's so excited to go back and feed all this food to her new man.

Yeah. And some of the food it's really good, Oh god, especially that brie. I'm like, oh yeah, that bred and that bread grapes, yes, yes, But she's buying mangoes. It looks like or yeah, yeah, I'm like they had mangoes in France in seventeen eighty two, those French mangoes. Yeah, the mango.

Yeah, they're known for that's here's some snails and some mangoes. But you know, I mean, but shot to the point where it's like we see that really haunting shot of her in the rain, oh yeah, and it's like but then it's almost like curl like this is no, no, no, it's like that whole like old metaphor or that whole parable of you know, the woman gets bit by a snake and the snakes like, well, what'd you expect, I'm a snake? Yeah whatever, And it's like that because you never see him. I'm a snake. I'm a snake.

What do you want from me? Yeah, snake, I'm that's a sassy snake you're doing. Yeah, it's a very very sassy snake. It's like Stephen toblask as a snake. Heather, I'm going to bite you, sassy snake.

And I said, Steven, you can't do this role with your accent, and you give me some where southern than I am. I am a sassy snake and I'm gonna bite this girl right on the bum right after I have this mint, Julip, I'm waiting for Big Daddy to come home with my things in the glens. Yeah, that'd be adorable. That's how all vampires are, like, oh my gosh. But yeah, that it was was a trying to make stakes.

That's a sassy but to my point, my point, honestly, that's sassy. Stay could have gotten it more than calling Firth in this movie. Jesus for calling Forth. Yeah, I mean he's fine whatever. He's rich and famous and handsome.

He's doing better than we are. But like he uh, but yeah, it's yeah, that's just such a weak link. I feel like that was the weakest link because you know, you do see herself sporadically, and then it's kind of like, well, what makes her cave in like that too? It seemed from like I'm a chaste woman who's very uncomfortable with this sex best because that's that's also to me how it came across. For she keeps very cleanly putting up boundaries, being like, sir, I'm fine with being friends with you, but I'm married.

I'm not interested. You just stop this, and he's like setting up, you know, dinners and shit. It's like, if a guy did this now, you would be calling like the police on him or outing him on a social media platform, be like girls to beware the guy's creeper, you know. But here it's like, I guess we're supposed to be charmed. Also, Cecil clearly tells Mottrell that she told him no, we don't see the actual rape, but you know, but then they try to kind of soft shoot it, being like, oh, but did you like and then she smiles and it's like listen, no, and that to of women lose their virginities, are not going to be like that, even when it especially if it's not consensual, because then it's not sex.

It's right, that's my boy. Like, yeah, it's it's hard for me to find Colin Firth to be the dastardly bastard. He needs to be doing the things that he does because like, you're just too nice, pal, Yeah, but especially and there's not even like subtle. It's like he goes literally from being like you know, I'm like a I'll play you're the Prince, so we're gonna play a little sword fighting game and you know, and all that to like, you know, all of a sudden, he's like lifting up her dress like a pervert. Like it's just it, it's just it.

But it also is like out of place because he doesn't Yeah, there's nothing that makes us think he's like that. No, I mean, and I don't like ragging on a movie for one thing, but like it has gotten in the way, it gets in the way of my ability to enjoy this movie because he's the main character. Yeah, it's it's just it's it's such a miscast that like all of the other names that we mentioned are much better. And I just someone like Milosh Foreman, you would think and his casting director wouldn't make this that they do. I wonder what they saw in the like the screen test, and they were like, this is the energy that we because like what what he gave them is what we're seeing on screen.

So I just I find it a little hard to believe because I want if we have bastards, I need the bastards to really be bastards, especially if they're ruining other people's lives, ruining their own lives. You know, fucking married women. The married women are leaving their husbands for them, Like I need someone who can shoulder that without seeming like they're just crumbling under the pressure. And Colin Fords bat I think what it was, Chris, was that Dan Hadeia and Angelo Battlamente came in and they pushed a picture of Colin Firth across the table to me lotion. They said, this is the guy, this is him.

Yeah, and he said, all right, I gotta do it. I did like entertaining this social and what if there's a version where he's such a libertine. That like when you see his the dogs, like the hunting dogs, they're running from him. Really, we're going that far? Holy shit, it's like the Eddie craw One might say, yeah, but like the fish stop to quote an old Eddie Murphy Pitt that has not asual at all, the fish stop swimming when he comes to your house because they're afraid anything, anything that's not nailed down.

He is on it. He's like a Mississippi leghound on that. Wow. Almadis is more of a libertine than Oh he's so he's farting. He's the women.

He's farting almost like that. I quickly when I saw that movie first and I was like seven six or seven, my mother readed it and all I remember from it was him farting, and I thought he was like the greatest, Like that's what I was expecting from this. Like in a lot of ways, like I thought this came before onmadeus. Like when I realized that this came after, I was like, oh, man, like what, yeah, this is like a test run Brahma Dais or something, but this is like this is like yesterday's lunch compared Amadeis for fuck's sake, like you mentioned it in the intro, Mike, Like, I don't think i'd be hung up this bat if Milosh Foreman had more movies. But fuck, dude, you don't have enough.

You don't have enough movies to be making this much of a clunker. Like right, Barry Lyndon, this is not like the period piece, like maybe don't. Oh well, actually you mentioned Barry Lyndon. You, I think we do have something very positive to stay about Colin Firth here. It's like at least it wasn't Ryan O'Neill.

Oh there you go. Yeah, do you like Ryan O'Neil and I like Colin Firth in this movie because like very like that very Linden character, the Ryan O'Neill characters, Like that's fine, Colin firths just like so out of sorts, you know. I don't know. Maybe maybe is that like unpopular opinion, It probably isn't right, I maybe I need to see more Ryan ornil movies. I don't know.

There are two actors that I are very well. I don't think Ryan o'neilson beloved now, but that have had heights of popularity and very love that I just don't get it just doesn't click with me. And he's one of them in Warm Babies the other speaking of a yeah, yeah, I can see both of those, but especially Ryan O'Neill. I mean, do you watch I mean, he's really good in What's Up? Doc?

But you know what I was about to say, Yeah, but you get into things like so fine and you're just like, I can't want this guy to suffer. Like you watch that movie and you're just like it's one of those characters where you're just like, I don't like you as a character, and I hope that bad things happened you about paper. I've never actually seen that movie. I haven't a shame to say so I want to watch it, but I've heard it's a good Ryan O'Neil movie. Well, I also I heard I believe I heard that, like because you know his daughter Tatum won the oscar and that like after it's like he hit her or something or like he was like he was an awful awful fathers And it's amazing that Tatum O'Neill isn't a killer is first concern.

I think I have bad respect for just for not you know, like I mean, if chemical substance problems are all you have from that kind of like fucked up childhood. You're fine, hunting, getting treatment and an oscar. I hope she. I hope when she got older she hit him with it. Dad.

It's like, I don't know what you no, no, I that I know. I liked it. I liked that. So U anyone else have anything to say about Valmont? No, Heather, Uh, I'll give you.

I'll give you a moment for your for your own closing thoughts, but anything before that, Oh okay. I feel like we've kind of tapped. I feel like we've touched upon all the really like sort of major you know, elements of it. Final thoughts on Valmont, Heather. Um, I do think if you if you're somebody who's especially a fan of any of these actors, if you're a fan of kind of that lush Um sort of seventeen eras or at least adjacent, because I'm not I'm definitely not a scholar, and you know, period accurate costumery.

But it's very it is very like, it is very lovely to look at a net Benning is great. Um. Even even the actors that are miscast I think are fine, Like it's certainly not um doing like I think a major disservice or anything. It does have its flaws, as we've discussed, but it's it's a good I would say it's a god. I don't want to rate it because that makes me think of Robert Chris Gaw and he's gross.

It's it's good. It's a little middling, but you could do far worse. You could do a lot better. About you, Mike, Yeah, I would say kind of the same thing. I think I liked it better than both of you two.

Like I said, I did laugh out loud a few times and found some of it to be pretty good. I you know, for me, this whole movie kind of is saved by some of the supporting cast members. But yeah, I was really glad to see this. For roust Ball performance, I thought, as a she was really fourteen in real life. What an amazing actress, and I know she had been acting for years.

At this point we talked about return to OZ, but he just really I thought, did a great job at it. And yeah, I thought, you know, Ian McNeice and some of these other people are really good. Yeah, and at Benning again, but yeah, you get to Allen Firth and you're like, okay, So not enough though for me to be like, oh, I'll never watch this again. I don't think this is a good movie. I wouldn't recommend this over Dangerous Liaisons, but which is streaming on HBO Max, so I think I'll I know whose account I'll be using to watch that.

So you're welcome as he as As for me, you know, I kind of mentioned it at the top here. These kinds of movies do not draw my attention. I do not watch period pieces based on Queen or any of that shit. It's just not something that draws my attention in the way Leonard Nimoyan Star Trek does, or most things. For to be perfectly honest, U that being said, I enjoyed this for what it is.

I think if I could walk away from this movie and want Colin Firth to be recast, and that happened, and I think we would have gotten a better movie here. But that's not what happened. We have horribly miscast Colin Firth in a movie that's okay otherwise, but his performance could have really elevated it and unfortunately doesn't. And yeah, I again Milosh Foreman movies that earned enough of them, and this is kind of could have been done by anybody really, you know. That's the sad part is it's it's a Melosh Foreman movie.

Vincent Skiavelli's in it. It's not for as much as Black Peter had its problems, I would almost rather watch Black Peter, which is, like, you know, for me, that's like a sacrilege given if anyone's look to that up employee to listen to our thoughts on that that was pretty rough there. But this is just again like miscasting. Miscasting is a problem the movies that when it happens, and it happens really like really like out in the open, it's hard to work around because it just it just stinks up the whole thing. It's like a bad apple.

Unfortunately, I'm glad, I'm glad you picked this one, Mike, because it's unlike anything else we watch. At least there's that. We'll see how mister Goya is next week. So so on that note, we'll take a blake, We'll take a Robert blake. We'll go kill our wives, and we'll be be back after this preview for next week's episode.

Don't worry, Heather, your wife is safe. Yeah, I love her. So they consider him the greatest painter in Spain, most marvelous work indeed, Oh yeah, an artist renowned for his genius. You have the reputation of making the men of cloth in your work. Are you aware of how many powerful enemies you have?

Well? Yeah, Fortunately I also have a few very powerful friends. A woman adored for her beauty. Why doesn't that painting have a face because he's a ghost, No, he is not. How do you know?

But behind the art do you not see what tomonic film this schoir is selling? Do you painters not become very intimate with your models beyond the canvas? My daughter has been summoned by the Holy Office, And as preposterous is a world where the powerful are declared righteous. We have to return to the god fearing ways of the past, and the innocent are declared guilty. What do you want to be taking, Beth?

My daughter was torture? Tell me what the truth is? There are revolutions everywhere in the name of Emperor Napoleon. We hereby proclaimed the Spanish Inquisition of boys, all of his prisoners. We'll be friend, who was that car?

Then? Could meet me Snicia. She has taken leave of her senses in jail. Where is he nice? She's a very good heals, I say, Mary of here bar Dame Natalie with men and Stellan scars guard.

Why she so important to you? You are completely obsistent there. That face is engraved on my mind. I'm not going to again. Right on next week's episode, we're gonna be talking about Goya's ghost, which is not about beans.

What I have that's a fascist theme brand is a fascist bean brand? Yeah, like, oh yeah, don't you remember that amazing picture Trump with the thumbs up over all the Goya products? Oh yeah, oh I do. Now, yeah, we'll fun yeah brand, Goya, not the painter, not the painter, the painters painters, okay, the painter, well, he's haunted and U yeah, oh that stuff. I didn't even realize you guys regulate during that episode I mentioned Goya.

Oh wow, kids, Okay, sorry, yeah, but we'll be joined on that episode once again by Mike and by Spencer Parsons. Oh yeah yeah. Until then, where can people find you kicking your can around on the internet? Head, Well, of course you can find me at my website Mondoheather dot com and my Twitter and Instagram under at Mondo Heather and also hopefully by the time this episode goes live, I have an article that should be up over on Aero Films website for their blog where I talk about the nineteen eighty nine horror film and Dark Gem in my opinion, Cold Light of Day, directed by Fianna Fiona Louise, and I'm very proud of the article. Please go read it and support Arrow because they're doing they're doing amazing work with getting a lot of these films, and especially one like that which is still pretty obscure out there in Cold Light at Day?

Is that the one where the kid is killed and the guy promises to find the killer. No, no, okay, I wonder what I'm thinking of. I think that sounds familiar, is it powsome? I mean that's basically that's the promise with Jack Nicholson. But there was like two or three remakes beforehand.

Yeah, two or three adaptations, I should say, right the pledge. Oh yeah, no, it's nothing nothing, nothing like okay, but it's really it is excellent. It's no fun um and it's it's very I just think, very brilliant and very intelligent. And heart smart film. M Oh yeah, the Cold Light of Day from nineteen ninety six?

Is that the same one? No? Okay, all right, what was yours Cold Light of Day nineteen eighty nine? I believe? Okay, yeah, all right, so if you can see why I'm so confused.

Okay, I was like, well, I know what you said. The something I was like thinking, like more serial killer type of yeah, because this was loosely inspired by real life Scottish your own killer Dennis Nilsen. Okay, I'm right, played by David Tennant most recently exactly. Yeah, but I just talked about that, but I highly recommend yeah, Cold Lighted Day especially, Yeah, because I've started the trailer for the mini series, which looks really good, but it looks fastly different. I think this is this film is a very different take on like stuff inspired by true crime.

Like I think it's um funeral Louise. It's only her only feature film, and that's a shame. It's it's a fantastic debut. I'm not gonna say anything else because govery the article. As for me, you can find all the things that I do at weird ingway media dot com, which includes Barney did I let you plug.

Yeah, you're going to do that. Yeah, Mike. Where can people find you on the internet as well? Um, well, I'm moving all of my Twitter stuff over to truth Social, so you'll be able to find me over there at Patriot Projection Booth. So yeah, both, but yes, exactly.

God, are you do you have live reads from my Pillow yet? Not yet, But I've been boarding m Mike. He's been very great. We have a lot of phone conversations. He doesn't even use a phone.

He just talks and I can hear him all the way over here. What'll you think of next? Huh? He just talks at the pillow and then I hear it in my dreams. Yeah.

As for me, you can find me at weirdingwaymedia dot com, which is not sponsored by my Pillow or any of these horrifying things that people actually like. Yeah, I guess you can find all the content that I work on, which is a show that Mike and I do from time to time called Barney Miller Life and Times, where we talk about the seventies cops show Barney Miller a Shabby Detective where we talk about Colombo and then Heather from time to time. Is on the Bollywood Cinema Club talking about Indian cinema. So yeah, those are places that you can find me or me and Mike or Heather and I. So there you go.

As for this show, culturecast dot com, Patreon dot com, you've heard it before, say it again. I just like, rate and review the show wherever you get it, which is more than likely iTunes or Spotify apparently. So um. Heather and Mike thank you both so much for joining me and talking about Colin Firth for longer than anybody deserves to be talked about named Colin. Well, we also mentioned Michael Ironside's thanks to mine.

Yeah it's true and as always, we'll catch you on the next