Episode 753: Battle Beyond the Stars (1980)

Oh is, folks, it's showtime. People pay good money to see this movie. When they go out to a theater. They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters. In a protection booth.

Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. Got it off? Yes, Ruthless invaders a defenseless planet, battled beyond the Stars. A lone youth escapes on a last ditch mission that begins at the edge of the universe. Oh no, the story of a boy who finds more than he expected.

Right there and all he can handle. Does your species have kiss him? Oh? Yes, we have that right. Try what that's a hot dog?

It comes amurrit Do you like it? There's no dog in this. Mm M soybean meal, nyasin dextrous and sodium nitrate flavory. That's what we call meat back home. Battle Beyond the Stars.

Starring Richard Thomas, George Papa, Robert Vaughan, John Saxon, A battle beyond time, beyond space. Thurt fire That in is a desperate gamble. You'll us it won't make any difference of Battle Beyond the Stars. Welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host.

Mike White joined me once again as mister Christashu, I prefer to be called John Boy. Also back in the booth is Father him Alone. This is the movie that answers the question what if the Millennium Falcon was a really fucking hot woman? Technically, the Millennium Falcon is a hot woman, Phoebe waller Bridge. No, that's her personality.

I'm talking about the fucking shape of the woman. Oh, the ship itself, Yes, half Chubb already, you're right. Sci Fi July continues with the look at Jimmy Murri Kami's Battle Beyond the Stars. Released in nineteen eighty. The film stars Richard Thomas as shad and Innocent, whose way of life is threatened by the villainous Sador played by John Saxon, a self made Frankenstein Casanova Frankenstein really, who has conquered many worlds.

It's up to Shed to put together a ragtag group of warriors to help protect his people. Yes, this is John Sales giving us seven Samurai or the Magnificent Seven in space in a Roger Corman production. We will be doing our best to spoil this film as we go along, So if you don't want anything ruined, turn off the podcast and come back after you've seen the film, we will still be here. So father alone, tell me when was the first time you saw a Battle beyond the Stars and what did you think. I saw this movie in the theater.

I was lucky enough to have a dad who took me to every science fictioning thing that was available, and there wasn't much should be noted at this time, you know, everything after Star Wars. People think that there wasn't even after Star Wars had that many science fiction things. People think there was this tumble down of this explosion of sci fi. And there was, to a certain degree, there was more than there had been, but it didn't really ramp up until the nineties as star as I'm concerned as far as the constant output of science fiction. But anyway, this was a movie that I was taken to see in the theater.

Another film I'd like to point out that I also got to see in the theater was they put out the pilot of the television series Buck Rogers in the twenty fifth century in theaters, and my dad took me to that as well. That was my first experience with it. I'd also like to mention one other thing I think I was seven when this movie came out. Not to get spoilery right here at the beginning, but at the end, when Sybil Danning is finally destroyed by her enemies, I recall my father saying they're just going to float around in space forever, and at a seven I knew exactly what he meant. I loved the movie.

Then, I love the movie now. The movie I found to be as exciting as Star Wars, but also off putting and deeply disturbing, And somehow that was more attractive to me than Star Wars. If they had continued making these as a series of films, I might be more in that camp than the Star Wars camp as far as science fic, because right now, at this time, it was Star Wars or Star Trek. You kind of feet one or the other, and this would have been the third one, and this is the one I would have gone for. It was almost like a hybrid between the two.

Really. Absolutely, it's got some noble and science fiction any kind of shit, but it also has some daring do and a lot of opera. And Chris, how about yourself, what did you think of this film and when did you first see it? Seventy two hours ago. Folks, this is not a movie that I was imminently familiar with.

This was one that I was invited to be part of. I'm assuming Father Malone was invited due to the card of it all the Banacheck connection here, because I was trying to figure out, like, why was I invited to this episode because I have no previous engagement with this movie. Because we're a midnight viewing a unit. We were talking about this movie Father Malone and I at some point, and you said, oh, I don't know that movie, and we said, you need to see this movie's pretty much and I think after that it was like, oh, we're going to do this, and then it eventually got put on my schedule for this year. It might have been quasi midnight viewing.

It just made sense to fit it in here for this show. I'm so curious, what did you think, Chris? This movie is at times as interesting as Star Wars, but at other times it is deeply confounding. Off putting is a nice way of putting it. I would say some points might even like downright kind of like cynical and disturbing in a way, not to jump all the way to the end.

But if you want to compare and contrast the way Star Wars ends versus the way this movie ends. Talk about you ever heard the term zero fucking fanfare? That's how this movie and that in and of itself, I think is like a microcosm of this movie. Like, this movie is very different in the way it's doing things. It feels a little bit more realistic.

Obviously, yes it is Star Wars is sure based on Seven Samurai. No Hidden Fortress. Sure, But I mean again, like I was gonna say, like the putting together in the team thing, like how many movies, how many tropes have done that? Now, and that we just say that's a seven Samurai. I think, like, sure it is.

This is way more specifically drawn from and directly influenced by Seven Samurai, which is a movie I really enjoy and I think most people who have seen it, which I think are a lot of people who enjoy cinema, would agree it's a great movie. This movie, I think puts its name out there as being an interesting sci fi version of Seven Samurai. I think it does enough. I think there are interesting enough performances. I think there are interesting enough characters.

There are people doing some things you wouldn't expect. This is the first thing I've seen Richard thomasin where I actually like him in it. I find him to be at times the worst part of that and the most obnoxious, and then at times he's both. So he's really good in this. I think he kind of plays that Luke character well enough.

It's interesting. I think it's an interesting movie. There's clearly gonna be a lot for us to talk about in terms of the movie itself, but it's definitely not what I was expecting. But it is exactly what I was expecting at the same time, if that makes sense. It surprised me in a lot of ways.

But at the same time, I think to the things that I'm probably referencing directly, I think Father Malone kind of already like got to it a little bit, like this movie has some issues that are very specific choices that the movie makes that I'm not sure I vibe with. What about You, Mick White. So I grew up with this movie, saw it on cable. I don't know how many times I would have loved to have seen this at the theater. This was my first exposure to the Seventh Samurai story.

I saw this way before I saw anything else. I imagine that a lot of listeners probably grew up with stuff like A Bugs Life, which really puts that out there. There's a bunch of unofficial remakes of seven Samurai. I definitely saw Magnificent seven. When I was growing up.

I had to play the theme for the Magnificent Seven I don't know how many times in marching band when our budgets got slash and we just kept playing the same fucking song over and over again. So I definitely saw the movie to try to tie into what it is. Great score, okay, movie too, And I like this whole idea of Robert Vaughan being in both films. That's kind of nice. And I like his character in both and some people are like, oh, it's the same character.

I'm like, no, not really. If you think that you really need no, you really need to go back and watch that movie again. You won't regret it. It's pretty good, but it's no seven Samurai. I think that they do a very smart thing, Like I rewatch Magnificent seven last night.

I think they do a really super smart thing by making the farmer himself part of the or the actual originator of the quest to find the Warriors, because really, once the three farmers come to town and get Yul Brenner and Steve McQueen on board, they just kind of fuck off to the background and you don't really follow them. You follow Brenner and McQueen throughout the entire movie. They're really the heroes of the story. I think keeping it with the with Shad here and having him be the one that goes on on this quest makes him a much more dynamic character. He really, you know, starts off as very innocent.

He doesn't want to kill anybody. The reactions that he's having or interactions he's having with Mother, and I love that the ship is called Mother, and I love those big boobs that the ship has. I just think that it's great. I love this whole idea and kind of like her as the mother figure and then what is it Zed as the father figure, this blind father figure. So many great character actors in this as well.

I mean, just Thomas is good. I definitely grew up watching a lot of Walton's, a lot more than I would have liked. But you know, to have like Sam Jaffy in here and Earl Bone, who I just fucking love that guy. But you know, having zed himself be Jeff Corey's It's great, so many good faces and just such a fun film. It's a night Gallery extravaganza.

Here we got John Saxon, We've got Sam Jaffey, We've got I don't think Earld Bowen came in. But what was the other one? Earl? But I thought her Bowen was on an episode of No but Jeff Corey was not only in a couple of episodes he directed. Have I remember that?

And we've got I know John Saxon in Night Gallery either that's odd? We know we do? Okay? We did? Did we?

We had him in that episode where that it was a Welsh episode where a woman has like a voodoo doll of her husband that she immediately starts to try and kill, like she throws it into the fire to try and burn him, and then she ends up throwing the doll into the swamp and it turns the room into the giant swampy thingerh my, And she's because she's trying to get away to her lover, who was played by John Saxon, who's named Idianto, which is how I knew we were in Wales, who. Wouldn't want to get away to John Saxon, who as Yon and he looks great in this movie, and oh my god, what fantastic vision of of manliness that is John Saxon. The disturbing part of this movie is Sador himself, his entire race, these mutants, where he is constantly being taken apart and put back together, like he's a man made of different body parts.

They make it a fucking plot point near the end, like the assassination attempt exactly, Like just like that alone is disturbing. Not to mention some of the other visions were given here. He's just like on the Doctor Hephestus's station, Doctor he Festus is himself just like a fucking head. But like even the androids that they have, like a half of an android that she puts a cartridge in and he starts like singing the song just by opening his mouth in the music there sounds like music from another galaxy. Right, It's so rare to get that in a movie where they give you a bit of music and it doesn't just sound like something from Earth.

That to me sounded like what the fuck is that? And that whole scenario is disturbing. I don't know, scene after Seeing After Seen as a child was just like, what am I? What is this? You know what?

It reminds me of a time Captain Ego because of the junk yard esthetic, Junkyard aesthetic. But also and you mentioned the noise his father malone, did you guys notice that when some of the doors opened, it sounded like Darth Vader breathing, yes, you go. On alone, father's wish. I was like, oh my god, what the It's not just close. It's like if there's four beats to the Darth Britter, it's just two beats, like it's just the two, not the four.

And so it's like it sounds like it, but you could pass it off as a door opening. I just love the richness of these worlds, and like you said, every single time you meet a new alien that's a different race, and it feels like every single race is really like thought out, Like I can imagine what life is like on that space station with doctor Hephaestus and with all those androids. I mean for me, of course, I was reminded of kiss Me. It's the fanom of the park. When it comes to the androids and stuff, and especially I think there's some barbershop quartet androids that you get instead of the Wendy Carlos Williams type music that comes out of the one guy's mouth.

But every single thing is so well thought out, and I think that so goes to John Sales and just the care that he brought to this, which is so wild to say, Like so much care was put into this Roger Corman production, one of his most expensive I think at the time two million dollars he paid for that, which is wild when you think, like you got Jim M. Cameron working on this John Sales, you know, like all of these big name actors like James Horn, James Horner, I mean, Pepard is, you know, very hot at this point, Robert Vaughan pulling down some bucks as well. It's like this is pretty amazing. I mean even to have John Boy from the Waltons inside of her was pretty big deal. He's a known quantity.

Everybody has seen him on their TV for the last few years. It's really remarkable. And like I said, the care that Sales just puts into every single moment of this and the thought behind it. Like I love his whole thing of on the audio commentary where it's like I wanted to know how long these characters lived, like that was my thing, and then the whole thing at the end, sorry again to jump to right at the end when sators like I wanted to live forever and it's like, that's your thing, like replacing those body parts. I love that idea of him just being this self made Frankenstein of like, oh, I want his arm and I want her leg kind of thing.

I'll drink to your legs. You mentioned James Cameron, by the way, according to Gail an Heard, Paxton was working on the set of this movie as a carpenter too, which must have been talk about cuckoo bananas, just like the confluence of people all at once that would like at times are at a height of their career and are have not been essentially are unlike relatively unknowns, because I mean Cameron was kind of Bill Paxton clearly like. But just to think James Cameron was like nobody here and he was like when he got hired, he was just as a model maker. And evidently the story is Corman comes to the studio and goes, let me see the models and They're like, we don't have anything yet, and he's like, well, what the fuck, what might you know?

And and storms out. And then Cameron draws up the ship now is her name and presents that to him, and knowing what Corman likes and knowing that it's gonna be tits and ass gives us this bizarre ship and then Korman's like, that's great and then promotes him to like fucking art director of the movie. It doesn't get lost in the shuffle with James Cameron, but to hear someone talk about James Cameron doing like sketches for stuff, like it seems in a lot of ways like James Cameron's maybe wasting his talents now, Like you know, he's not executing to the fullest of his abilities now the way he used to be. If he ever was, like I would love to have seen that version of James Cameron where he's a little less of a director and more of a force within the productions as kind of the you know, production designer or you know, like IRA art designer.

I mean again, like James Cameron, if not for the fact he wanted to be a director, could have just been Stan the Stan Winston really like, and to be fair, a lot of what Stan Winston did with James Cameron came directly from him and James Cameron working directly together. So it's not like James Cameron wasn't helping him come up with stuff anyways. But to hear them talk about James Cameron drawing stuff and working on the models, it's just like, man, what a what like a multi talented guy. It's not like we didn't already know that, given that he goes to the bottom of the ocean all the time, But it's just further Hammer's home like James Cameron's just a talent, Like immensely talented. James Cameron should be the man running a studio.

Yeah, he could look at every project from top to bottom, what's going on with it, and figure out the problem and then fix it. Is it a problem with story, Let's fix that problem, or you're probably being a problem with the engineering. Let me get in there. I will figure that problem out. You need a water tank, I'll build you the water tank.

You look at the terminator the first film and you look at while you see Earl Bowen, Dick Miller, you know, it's like it's such a Corman influenced film. And you've got Gail an Hurd there who was working on this film as well, and what she goes off and produces the great Smoky Roadblock I think it is, and then goes on to the Terminator. And Cameron goes from this, I think he does some second even the stuff on another one. He does Piranha to the Spawning after this, and then he goes to the Terminator and it's just like they knew how to solve fucking problems and get the most out of their money. And you look at the Terminator film and you're just like, this is close to a perfect movie.

You know, this is one of those movies where you're just like, every single scene needs to be here. I went through I watched an expanded version of the film recently. I saw these deleted scenes and I'm just like, they made the right decision. They cut out all of this stuff that did not need to be there. The movie that exists just hums along.

Cameron even worked on Escape from New York as a Matt artist in between this and Piranha. Like my joke about the murderous Muslims of True Lies Aside, which I think is kind of a weird misstep for him, because he doesn't make a lot of missteps really, like at frankly at all. Like James Cameron has some movies that in a lot of ways transcend the original movie that he even directed, or transcends the original movie that someone else came up with a concept for. And Jay like, I don't know, just to your point, like, and I think maybe James Cameron is too good to even manage a studio. I think, you know, I think he's probably better off going to the bottom of the ocean and doing even more insane things than just sitting behind a desk.

As you know, we're not We're not better off. He should stop that. He's done at all. We got it's true making Avatar movies. We're not that interesting.

Yes, we're all gonna see it. You're gonna get your money back, but dude, you are wasting our time. Not everybody's going to see it. I didn't see the second movie. Have no desire after that first movie.

No, I don't want to go back to that world. It's not that interesting. It's a bummer. That's the bummer for me with James Cameron now, is like I don't care about Avatar, like one single solitary fuck and the people that do cool, Like there's a whole land in Disney World, like part of Animal Kingdom now has Avatar Land and it's packed to the gills constantly. I guess people really wanted it, but it just it makes me sad because I wish James Cameron was doing things that were a little bit more interesting as opposed to Avatar.

Even this, I mean, this is better than Avatar. This is more interesting than Avatar. This movie for all of its problems, Like it's a much more interesting to be on the stars. Yes, one thousand percent. I know, but some people would watch that movie and think I'm crazy for saying that.

But it's like it's a much more interesting idea at just its core that then has expounded upon. Then Avatar is Avatar is not even an interesting idea at the heart of it, Like it's boring. This makes me wish that they had done more science fiction adaptations of the Curacrosa movies to give it. Star Wars and then this, both based on his stuff come on. Just the way that these characters are treated.

Again, everybody has some agency here. I mean when he meets the darling Flugel character Nanelli. Yeah, I believe it is. She's not content to just ride along as a passenger. She goes out and looks for these warriors as well, and I'm like, that's fantastic, Like we don't have to have now the cutesy banter between the couple that's eventually going to fall in love.

They will fall in love, there will be that coupling towards the end of it. But she's her agency and she's out there and I love like when she meets Cayman, and I love that his name is Cayman, just like a fucking crocodile. And then I never really realized that that was played by what is Morgan Woodward, who is to me, I mean, one of the most sinister motherfuckers in the entire world. He's the one that played the man with no eyes I believe was his character's name in Cool Hand, Luke, you know, the head guy who's just there ready to pick people off with his rifle, like fucking a he and that it's actually him doing that voice, that it's him in the makeup, because I was like, maybe it's him doing one of those, but it's definitely somebody else in that makeup.

They're not going to make that poor old man do that. But no, it's really him under there. And I have to say too for nineteen eighty great makeup effects. I mean he if he was on face off, they would come up and be like, Okay, open your mouth and he wouldn't be able to like articulate very much. But the eyes being human eyes and getting that motion in there, the mouth movement that he can do, I think looks really good.

And I kind of love that he's this guy who's like, my whole race was wiped out except for me, and I'm here to kill this sator motherfucker and I'm gonna get revenge. I'm like, yes, Like what a pure motivation that is. And it was my favorite character growing up. But okay, man, and because like you were saying, Mike, just the economy of everyone not only has agency, but their scenes are so fucking economical. We meet him, we find out that he's gonna fucking he's like a trader almost.

He's gonna take her and cause he can get body parts from her. He saved her from this thing. Now we know what that thing was, and now we also know that he has this vendetta against sator. Oh, by the way, here's his man, and he's got these two. By the way, the two here they communicate through heat.

Oh kelvin fucking amazing. All of that is communicated. You get all of it, and we're just moving and we're on to the next fucking thing. It is. It really impressive.

And how weird is it that his the human guy that's there, his name is so close to Queek Wegg that it's like such a nice reference to Moby Dick. And this is two years I think before Wrath of Khan, which is going to rely on Moby Dick like nobody's business. And I do have to bring up the score because as a huge Wrath of khn fan, this is such the er text for things. This is like, you know, because they reused so many of these special effects in other Corman films. Corman was just like cannibalizing from himself on this one.

But the score is such a rough draft of the Star Trek two score, because I've heard that score like I don't know how many hundreds of times, but to hear the early version of it in here, and you're hearing some of the exact same phrasings and stuff. And I know I've given James Horner a lot of shit before, and I'm going to continue to give him shit because he basically is ripping off himself quite a bit as well, because I heard some krawl in here too, but really star Trek in this so much Star Trek wrap of God. Now the guitar twangs, I can see the Enterprise rising up in the Nebula to take care of the Reliant during any rising moment in this movie. And he and so many horns, Oh. God, yes, oh my.

And in a bit of his own ull, he rips off his Aliens stuff here with the sort of militaristic drum done, done done. That's what caught lie here was the ripping off of in this was just like, oh my good really. And there's another connection with this movie between Horner and Cameron working together they did Aliens and then eventually Horner I think, wins an Academy Award for Titanic Score. Ah, wherever you are, there's James Cameron apparently blooming large in the back. For years and years and years, I thought the voice of Nell here was Pat Prescott, who was the voice of Night flight on the USA network, and it's not.

I was shocked reading about it this day. As Lynn Carlin is their name, and what a great voice, by the way, what a great character, by the way, talk about an a like compare like this computer voice to any other computer voice and any other fucking things. It's it's always a bit of dead eyed whateverness here, whereas Nell is a living, breathing character. And by the way, there's something really unusual about being inside her the entire time, particularly given the shape of the ship, that there's so much, just I said, off putting. It's not necessarily off putting, but there's so much adult going on in this movie.

And when you compare, by the way, all of that to the fact that they do this movie in ninety fucking minutes, speaking of economy, and then fucking Zack Snyder remakes seven Samurai with his fucking Rebel Moon movies, which is four fucking hours, and every time they introduce a character in that movie, I'm just like, here's somebody else I don't give a shit about. No. Absolutely, I forgot all about that thing because I didn't watch it. I didn't want to watch it. I saw that army of the Dead, and I'm like, no, I'm not gonna do anymore.

I'm not going to torture myself with more of this guy's horseshit. That Lynn Carla, by the way, she was in a ton of stuff, but I mostly know her. She's the mother in Dead of Night, the Bob Clark film about the veteran who comes home from the war and he's a zombie. Like, what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna call everybody up and we're gonna have a big celebration.

Well that's a great idea and fucking amazing movie. If people haven't seen that. I covered that with Mark Begley over and Wake Up Heavy years ago and was very much a better man for watching that movie. Father alone. You just you were talking about the ship and like the inside of the ship, that that Junkyard aesthetic that lived didn't feel it works here, it works in Star Wars.

And why is it not done as much is because nobody wants to rip off Star Wars, I mean, like Star Wars doesn't even do it, like and obviously it makes sense. Oh yeah, Dark Star that really before that, I. Mean darks I mean Darkstar is the best example in my mind because Darkstar is kind of where not where it all comes from, but it's like it's almost like the distillate version, like it's the cheapest, best, quickest way done by the people who know how to do it the right way, is what Dark Star feels like. That's Dan O'Bannon. And then of course, and then of course the actual sort of resetta stone of the lived in sci fi is alien.

Somebody once explained it to me as far as like a clean universe versus a dirty universe, and they were using two thousand and one to space honesty versus something like a silent running where just like I can smell the sweat if I was to watch silent running and basically probably smell the joints too, that Bruce Stern's smoking up on the space station versus that overly clean and the overly clean thing it works for something like al Logan's Run for me, where it's like this is this false aesthetic and people are living in this dream world of this perfect society, and it's really when they go outside of the dome that they're like, oh no, this is the real thing. I can actually get my hands dirty.

I prefer dirty universe. I prefer the lived in look myself. And then you have something like say, like to go back to something like Star Wars with the prequels you have Chorussant where we have both, but yeah both you have like the upscale and then the downscale, it coexisting within one another. And I like that even more because that takes that initial idea of tattooing and builds out upon it because we get to see again. And a lot of this comes down to why were they doing this?

Because they didn't have the economy to make it any other way. Like, you can't show a lot of it, so you just have to hint at the things that were going on to the late nineties where we have enough money to show all sorts of wild bullshit, and so we all forgot what restraint was, which is fine. I mean, look at the end of the if you have the ability to show Jack Black running around in a Minecraft world fighting creepers, I am not going to tell you not to do it, but there is nothing that can be replicated like actually shooting something on a set and watching a movie like this is case proof positive as to why even if a movie like this stumbles and fumbles at times, It's still an interesting movie because you know they were making all this stuff there in reality they were working with matte paintings and miniatures and maquettes.

And also, I mean again, like this is movie making the way movie making. It's not that it's not done this way anymore, but it's kind of a lost art because there are different ways of doing things now that don't translate here, and people that are still doing this now were inspired by things like this that they watched when they were y'all's age or my age growing up seeing this and going I want to do that. I want to be able to reach out and touch the face of that creature. It just be a guy in a blue. It's scrappy, which is what I like about this, And it feels like to hear gail An Hurd talk about how they were rummaging through Jack in the Box dumpsters to get the containers, the Hamburger containers, the old styrofoam containers, and they would use those on ceilings or on walls of the ships to have stuff to bounce off of and to have the light really catch different angles and things to use milk crates like that.

They would deliver milk in for the floors on different ships and things, so you could get the light coming up through that. Plus you'd throw some smoke in there to give an extra little effect. I mean, it makes so much sense. And when you look at each one of these ships, each one has a personality, and that personality goes with the person that It is like looking at cowboys ship and it's just like this kind of like beautiful archway that they go through, archway that they go through where it's like padded on the sides and on the top and stuff. And he's got these pipe running through there, and you're like, I don't know what these pipes do.

I don't really have to know what these pipes do. They just add anesthetic that really works. And at that point in the story, Shad has become crafty enough that he can talk the Cowboy into Houma Teal. That was my customer. How would you like ten thousand mac laser fours and forty thousand charge slides.

They're paid for and I don't got the fuel to get them home. You're carrying weapons on they're hand weapons, the best we make. We're going to need weapons, but we won't know how to use them. Yeah, and we'll probably need someone to teach us how to use them. Yes, I can see that.

And we did save your life. That's great, man. I love that he's already starting to get in there, like he's gonna do whatever he can to save his people, even if it comes to like slight chicanery. Not always, you know, but there are some things. I mean, everybody's got their own motivation.

Papard's character is great because he really has no motivation other than like, sure, what the hell, I'll do it, And then you get those little great touches, like the fucking belt that he's got with the soda and scotch and ice cubes. Man who thought of that? That is awesome. I loved him more than I could love Han Solo as a character now because there's some actual like ambiguity left of the character, and because you've essentially split the Han Solo character into two characters in this movie with Robert Vaughan and George Papard, Like that's those two sides of the same coin that Han Solo like had to have as the character, but here you have him separated. And I love George Papart.

I think he's the best part of this movie. Him and Robert Vaughn, Like those are the standouts of the movie other than John Saxon, But I mean John Saxon, he's given the most fun and the damn movie. Like they're like, here, you're gonna play a guy who was literally like put together from parts like a Franka science monster. Okay, sign me up for that. It should be pointed out the judgement part is from Earth, which is something that you don't get in a whole lot of science fiction movies that take place out in the outer galaxies with all of these weird things.

And you know, not only was there were they sort of showing a whole lot of ingenuity as far as how they were designing and creating all of the sets for all of these disparate spaceships. But just the design alone is pretty impressive. Like you know, nest Storeship is just a void eye lestorship me too, And that's it's a cost cutting thing. But at the same time it makes sense because this movie is not only trafficking these great sort of visuals, but as you said, Mike, Johnsale script is not only like giving us good characters and dialogue and keeping the plot going and everything, but he's really invested in giving us these interesting science fiction concepts. For everybody, we're getting Nestor, who is effectively the Borg what ten fifteen years before the Borg would show up anywhere.

George baparda space Cowboy, is essentially Lone Star from Space Falls. Like the console that he sits at looks like the console that Lone Star sits at in that goddamn Winnebago. And I'm saying, you're thinking to myself like mel Brooks cough from this movie really. And even with things like Caman, I was like, well, Bosk but at the same time really reminds me of the bad guy from Galaxy Quest to go back to Nestor. I mean, Nestor is so fucking ingenious.

I love this whole idea of like such a collective and just each person is almost a cell, and especially like there's the humor here is well it's a little corny at times, but most of the time these jokes really land. So this whole thing of like, well, we always keep a spare you know, they have four Nestor, but there's a fifth Nester just in case they need one. I'm glad that they brought him alone along because they actually meet him before the movie's over. They absolutely do it, and again, just part of the fucking ingenuity of the goddamn screenplay here where that could have worked. Nestor could have ended this entire goddamn conflict on its own.

And to know that no matter what they do to Nestor, that there are hundreds of thousands of them and they all share the same puns that is the same person. That's fascinating to me. Again as a seven year old, kind of freaked me out. When they take the bite of the hot dog and they're all ty dog. Yes, that was like my favorite part when I was a kid.

I was like, Oh, that's so cool. They all taste the hot dog at the same time. Though that part always it always confuses me because George foot Part is playing the harmonica at that part and he's cooking the hot dog, and I never see the hot dog. I just see him playing the harmonica. And then they come up and Nestor says, what are you eating?

And I was like, oh, he thinks he's eating the harmonica, and it's like, oh no, no, it's actually the dog. So my bad on that one. That's my only unclarity in this film, and every single time I watch it always gets me. So we could have had a and this is not that in any handsome harmonica, and then they ate the hermona. And they're all just chewing the harmonica and you hear like little noises.

As they breathe. Goddamn. The sound design in this movie is great, Chris. You mentioned the doors and stuff, but I love the laser blasts and all of these little noises that they put in throughout. I was listening to the audio commentaries in the car and I heard a couple of times where they do that thing with like the what they call it, the the not the YadA, the wattle, no, the wubbah or whatever they call it, like the sounds that people just kind of make, you know, like and they lay in behind things.

And there's one part during an attack where I'm like, oh, I heard that woman just scream like ten seconds ago. So they're just like looping this kind of stuff. It's such a minor quibble because for the most part, like all of these sounds are great and it plays very well. I mean, again, Horner, for as much as you know he's ripping himself off on this. The score goes perfectly with this movie, and I love just how like those battle scenes, especially towards the end.

I mean, there's motifs for all of these different ships, and I love that it's ships instead of people, Like you can identify every single person that is inside of the ship from the ship itself because they're all so distinct. I really think that's a great idea. And then adding to it, they motifs, the musical motifs that go with these, And I remember in the audio commentary that Sales and Carmen did, Sales was saying that he was getting notes like can we have three ships being shown together at all times? And I don't hit And he's like, I don't know why. That was like just to make it look more visually interesting or something.

And then after that, every single time I'm watching this, I'm like, oh, three ships, Oh there's three ships together. But it works really well. I'm like, Okay, these shots look amazing and you can really tell. Sorry I'm rambling now, but you can really tell who's doing what in relation to what during the space battle which gets lost, and so many other movies where you're like, I don't know who's shooting that? Who?

Like, people get really impressed by the big end scene in Return of the Jedi with all those ships flying around, and then I want to say they redid that, and like, I don't know, Attack of the Clones or one of those movies. No, it's okay, but I can't tell where anybody is at and I can't really follow what's going on here. I could follow this battle very easily. A Star Wars solution in those scenarios is to pare it down. So what you're talking about, like the Return of the Jenni thing as opposed to the final Attack of the Clones thing.

What they did is they gave us two ships fighting everybody else in network. But here we're dealing with seven different spacecraft versus a flagship the Hammerhead which looks a lot like a Star Destroyer, and a blockade run had a baby, and those the bug Eye ships and the first the sound effect that the background effect you're talking about. Is called a walla walla thank you. Roger Corman would not only reuse James Horno's soundtrack score here for a couple of other movies, but like every fucking trailer that came down the pike, but the sound effect of the lasers that Tryang Trying Tryang, like that showed up in every science fiction movie of the nineteen eighties that came out of New World, and those ships, those bug eyed looking spaceships just kept showing up over and over and over again.

I think that we owe a lot of the continuity and things when it comes to that battle to mister Murcami himself, because it comes from a world of animation, and it just makes a lot of sense that he can tell. From what I understand, he actually directed that how many licks to the center of a tutsiroll pop commercial, which is pretty fucking amazing. And then where the wind Blows comes out in eighteen eighty. I mean, I'm sure his heavy metal sequence is great, and the Snowman is really good and everything, but where are the wind blows come on? I mean, that's really amazing.

And then I think having him behind the camera and having fucking Corman himself shooting second unit pretty boss, but just Murakami knows how to flow. And then you're also working with a really good effects team. Wait, did Murakami do the never wear sequence for a heavy metal that got cut. The soft landing sequence. Oh okay at the very beginning.

Oh that's fair. Oh, I had no idea, that's fantastic. Evidently I'm a big fan of America Commy's working and including with the wind blows, and as fucking horrifying as it is, that's not something I ever want to watch again. But I'm glad I did. Oh it's like a watership down where it's like, Nope, don't need to see this ever again.

Plague dogs, no, thank you, no, thank you. Quap peg by the way, not queek weg, but qua peg no. I think I said. He sounds like quick, quite, sounds like yeah, sounds. Like let me throw in some a hab here, and it's stall the fucking seven two syllables, first syllables.

Sounds like queakkway. How nice was it seeing Julie Duffy show up in this in a very small role, as apparently she is Shad's sister. There's a line at one point she says, my brother blah blah blah, and I'm like, never noticed that until I actually started digging into this a little bit more, because you know, I never watched this movie with a critical eye until this week. And then it's like, oh shit, this actually really holds up. This is, like I said, very well written and really well directed, and I to me, there's not very many sour notes in this film at all.

The only problem with this movie ends up being budgetary. And if they had had even five or six million dollars more, I could imagine as being a classic that people have on those shelves as opposed to something we're probably hipping in their direction. But I think the low budget aesthetic works really well, and they just they make it work really well. I mean things like when they go to find Robert Vaughan and just the spooky music that they have going in the back, the again use of smoke to make it look really wild in there. I was so freaked out when he's John Boy or chat is flipping through the different prostitute ads, and then one prostitute is still alive, I guess, and I'm just like, what the hell?

And then to meet Gelt and I love Gold and Yiddish is Gelt. I love having Gelt there with that amazing like all the treasure chests and all that stuff, and he's just sitting in that fucking throne and I'm like, oh, man, this guy sees some shit, and it's kind of like the Waco Kid from Blazing Saddles right, where it's like. Oh well, it got sell it. Every pisshand prairie punk who thought he could shoot it gun would ride into town to try out the Waco kid. I must have killed more men, and Cecil b.

DeMille got pretty gritty. I started to hear the word draw in my sleep. And Vaughan is just like I. Settle disputes very quickly. I'm very good at and I don't care who I work with.

I've collected a lot of enemies along the way. I have no home, no family, no principles. It's strictly business with me. People are out to kill me like I'm the only survivor on this planet. Maybe with the exception of that weird prostitute over there, but otherwise it's just me.

Don't even have a dog, and I'm just hanging out here and people are going to be gunning for me, and that whole idea of like him, and it's very like this part is similar to his character from Magnificent Seven, where he's like, I'm on the run. This guy Gelt is not on the run, but his exist is nothing. He's stuck on this dead planet because he can't leave because people are going to try to kill him. And is so similar in that way to the character that he's playing in Magnificent seven, where it's how much are we getting paid for the shob twenty dollars? Give that right to the guy who owns this barn, because he's charging me ten dollars a night to stay in this burn because I'm a fucking wanton man.

And I'm like, that's pretty good. I love here that he is a man who has everything but can't do anything with it, and his only interactions with anyone for years and years and years is them trying to get him and kill him or and or hand him over for some sort of reward. And so when this character shows up and says, well, I can't give you anything other than a meal and basically family, that that's his motivation that spurs him on is fucking awesome. And the fact that he gets it at the end, you know, get a feast together. We're bearing it with him.

I promise that man a meal. It's a touching moment. I like it. I just wanted to go on the record and say that. I tried very hard to get a lot of interviews for this episode.

I thought for sure i'd be able to get a hold of some of the folks that haven't passed away from this, such as maybe Richard Thomas, though I think he's busy on Broadway if memory serves. Unfortunately, a lot of other folks have passed away. One person that hasn't is Sybil Danning. I did reach out to her agent, and of course her agent said no, sorry, she's working on her memoir. I mean, it's just the typical celeb or at least agent slash manager excuse no, they're working on their memoir.

They don't want to talk to anybody. And I'm like, hey, wouldn't that like shake some memories loose or something being asked about stuff? But anyway, I was very fortunate to talk to the editor of Battle Beyond the Stars, Alan Holtzman. He has a book that came out back in twenty twenty one called Celluloid Wars The Making of Battle Beyond the Stars. It's from the Cinexploits label.

I'll be sure to link to that in the show notes. And in the meantime, let's go ahead and take a break and play back that interview with mister Holtzman. Right after these brief messages. Get ready to dive deep into the life, career, and unforgettable moments of the one and only Chevy Chase. Join us on an exciting journey through the illustrious career of this comedy icon as we explore his groundbreaking roles, behind the scenes stories, and timeless contributions to the world of entertainment.

Each episode of the Chasing chevy Chase podcast brings you expert analysis and nostalgic reflections on chevy Chase's most iconic characters in classic films like National Lampoon's Vacation, Caddy Shack, and Fletch. Whether you're a diehard Chevy Chase aficionado or simply curious about the man behind the laughter, Chasing chevy Chase is your go to podcast for all things Chevy Chase. Tune in and join the conversation as we celebrate the life and legacy of a true Hollywood legend. Don't miss out. Subscribe now to Chasing chevy Chase wherever you get your podcasts, and let the adventure begin.

Obviously, I want to ask you about your book and I want to ask you about Battle Beyond the Stars, but I'd love to know a little bit more about you. I mean, you've kind of fascinating history. I'm so curious. How did you get involved with moviemaking. Well, I just finished yesterday my autobiographical documentary that I would love for you to see and work for you if you could.

I was a pretty severe stutter earth. I was a mass, major massive, because it's been mostly mass, and definitely on the conceptual side, nothing practical, no relationship to engineering whatsoever. I was in my junior year and we were told that it didn't apply. What we were stelling didn't apply to life, which meant when I had it at this time, Actually MIT applied at about fifteen years ago, So I meant that I had to teach, and as a starter, I couldn't teach. And I was afraid to do ascid because I had a lot of a lot of stuff repressed for my childhood.

So whenever I saw a man with chick hairy hands, I would get a chill and I remember something from my past, but I didn't know what happened, and no one told me. And I was told of a completed different story. The day my baby brother was born, I didn't know what to say. I was so happy, so my local course became paralyzed. And then when I started talking again, I started that was the story, but in reality, my uncle molested me.

He was your babies. It took me till my early thir thirties before I put that together. But as a nineteen twenty year old, I was really confused and lost. And instead of doing acid, I knew from Science City State Up for four days and nights, your brain would secrete this fluid that was similar to an acid trip. So that's why I did it.

And I went for a walk with my philosophy teacher in the snow. I was in Cleveland at Western Viseroria University, and I told my dilemma and he said, what do you want to do in life? And I swear that the hack came out. He said communicate And he said how do me do that? I said, I could act and stutters down stutter when they act.

And I had acted and I was actually acting in political theater the school from Antioch because I was the anti Warkft demonstrator and Cleveland was the home of sts and mess for Doctor's Block the facult the advisor that was on the first March against the War in Washington, a fifteenth, nineteen sixty five. I as the first teacher too, which came from professors from the University of Michigan and Wisconsin who arrived on campus Friday afternoon and left Monday morning. I only until day and I about southeastation culture. So I decided, he said my philosphey, she said, well go actually my bags and went to New York City and I went into accepted just searts this actrict, I said, circle in the Sport Theater and that was like a top of Broadway Theater right on the Bleaker Street.

And Dustin Huffman had just been cast in the Graduate after starring in a play called a E. H. Question Mark now led me to a scholarship at Williamstown Summer Theater in Morgan, matt Massachusetts. Tutts in the Berkshires, and I was I was have a featured role in six characters and Searchable author is one I think one of the greatest plays ever written. And there was an ad on the Green in the Green Rooms from Bennington College saying full scholarship and work starting for three years for male actors because it's still an all girls school.

So I auditioned and got it. And my job was the school projectionist, and I showed the Janus now the Criterion archive. So every weekend I saw a double bill, a great European and Agent the movie, or Indian movie, you know, an international movie. But you know, I even saw any list that you did to be or not to be, and I love that. It's fun.

So that's how I got my movie education. And I spent one I had writtman, I didn't have an nding machine, and my teacher in theater had made an independent movie, but you couldn't. The chands were ring too and I wanted to try editing, so I spent a work term cutting black and the Wheel Beatles white album came out, and I spent a winter cutting black and white leader to with a splicer and Lee Winston to projector no the viewer, but I would project subliminal editing patterns to the white album. And then I started a film department with my te teacher, and we was in a film department. We had one camera, football ext and we made movies and edited in the camera, and which is how they made movies.

In Hong Kong before they had electronics. So I made a couple of movies. I'd even made a political documentary about the nineteen sixty nine More tourim to get against the war. And I made this little little movie Soldiers Erotic Fantasy at this point of Dash, and I won the New York brookn Arts Cultural Jump Festival Award and and the New York Erotic Film Festival on the film tour, and Bob Shay was the head of that. The head of Newton was Bob Shea's first Foray and his company that was called Saliva Films.

And when I was on Critters too doing the unit, and I had an afternoon where we were coming back from the screen and I reminded him of that, and he remember that funly. So I started this other movie and John Abnett I was introduced to him. I started editing as an assistant in New York and I got a jobbed through a friend and the sound editor got sick, and so I did his work, and then the editor got sick and I did his work. And there was this big commercial for Eastern Airline. She's a big airline, so on the East Coast at that time, and were some wells did the voice over there and they wanted to do a ninety second commercial for or East for nixon second inauguration and every right after that.

So my job was to go. No one wanted to go into the archive and spent all that time, so I did it. I've got the editing and it turned to be a braking. They hired an orchestra and it's really huge and I was able to get a lot of editing work after that. But I didn't like to talk to clients, so I was the editor knowing they just gave stuff, and so I allowed doing a lot of forced recruitment stroms that were shot in sixteen millimeters.

They were cut to motow so it was really visual stuff. And then I did this documentary about it was the person I was working for made it, show me about his sandstone sculpture and made it and I edited that. It's won awards and I re cut John and that's the movie feature. And I suggested to go to film school, and he went to AFI and then he called he said I should come, and I showed my work and you know, I got accepted there. So that was my film path.

And then when I was there only I got money to the stay there, so I cut through Roger Borman during that time and I cut Candy st Verses first year and Crazy Mama the second year, and then the first time I asked Roger to direct after a Crazy Mama, and I showed him my AFI movie, which is based on a Royal Dull short story called Skin and he only fell asleep one story and I reached over the side of wal come on, but it was shot now anamorphic color. It was a good production anyway. I walked outside with him and carried my film canon. I said can I can? I can, and he said, thank you very much, Al, I'll see you later, and you walk away.

Oh boy. Yeah. So then I went off to cut in Asia. I cut two action films for Fred Wyertreell. One was Checker Fly or Crash, and the other was Amsterdam Killed, which was actually cruised by Andrea Morgan.

Tried and worked out with feign deal with that. And I was cutting action movies in Asia and then I got this other movie called Cloud Cloud Dancer. I almost got the Stockman. I was in the finals for that. This is when Melissot Seimon came out and was giving movies to any Jewish producer, filmmaker, did commercials on an airplane features.

I did Cloud Cloud Dancer, and then after five months I got fired and it was really unfair because I was the director started recutting my work when I was retaining this work, and my assistant father was like on the border the guilt. They said he should sue, and so I sooned and I lost, and I got so kicked off, and I dropped out of the film. It's a good construction job and wrote a novel about my life, discovered about my uncle, and I started road skating and I made a movie on roller States, and but that wasn't getting anywhere, and the construction job stopped. And I really wanted to have a good movie because I was really devoted to, you know, the art of editing, and editing was my expression and like you know, I was, I may be doing as this federal I can never interview well.

So I got movies that no one else wanted, but they usually presented great editing challenges, and so it was good for editing. So I was able to get, you know, having lots of control. By that time, I usually never worked with the director. It was really rare because they walked away from the movies or got fired, or they only had two weeks. And then ultimately it was treemed me and the producer, and the producer was usually going to let me have my go at it because I worked all the time until something was right.

But I really wanted a good movie, and Cocoa was they have it, and I really wanted to cut that. And I really loved vendors and Roger a letter asking him to recommend me. You know, I said, call him because I started right. So he called and said, you know, I feel awkward clucking the Francis and I haven't talked him in a while, but look, I'm doing my biggest movie ever that would be Beyond the Stars. And I went, if you edited, so can you come to the office.

So I came in job. What were some of the biggest challenges of cutting that film? Everything was a challenge from the get biggest was the first one, which was I was a road glor skate, I skate into the down Bennis speech and Roger purchase Hammon Lumber. There's a lumber company on Main Street, and he left the sign of Hammon Lumber, which is he even had part of it bond food that was broken glass. When people asked if he would change it, he said, no, I want people to think that this place doesn't work anything.

So first day on job, the special effects supervisor comes up to me and he's a towering guy, and he goes, I don't want you got for the live action messing with my footage, and I've got Rogers' approval. I did the cut and I said, you know, sorry, but you know, I'm the editor and I need your footage and you give it to me now or I'll get it later. But I'm going to the entire you know, clan of roting scope people and modelmakers and assistant editors and you know, and they were all listening because no one defied Chuck and so he was my battle the whole time. And my big you know, my fake on the current and which is on the current in the book was that all these John Sales loord of brilliant script. But you know, when Roger says write a script, he says, don't write the budget.

So John wrote, you know a lot of action in space. Chunck was brilling supervisor and great envision and storyboarded everything really well, his visions was great, and it was like the beginning of computer animation or you know space. It was a machine called the Elicon, and this budget was small. You know. Roger got three million from Orion and he put up three million, but he took Orion's stream million and bought the studio.

So I was being produced on Rogers stream million, which meant it's not three million in the back. It's okay, two hundred this week. Turns allot it next week, twenty thousand next week. This is getting bigger on there now two una thousands called a cruise shop. We're around the mint.

So everything is like ultimate down the line. You know, soon as the first coup was done, I lost one editing machine, because when you're planning dailadies to film, you need two machines, one that has the daily and one that has your cut. You have to do a one machine. You can't do an action to Williola's such a stupid But as soon as the first coup was done, we all it was out. Our head water bottle was out.

You know that I had to write Roder a letter telling him that it took longer for me. It wasn't in time, you know, effective and cost effective for me to walk to the main stage because they was in the young lumberyard and the second story. So to walk to the stage and back Warner that takes so much time. That we had a Warner machine, I wouldn't have to leave. They'd put it back.

And they did the same thing with the phone. That was later. That was after we were logged from it was still mixing, but that I had to get phone calls at the main stage. And the most heartbreaking cheatness was at the end of James Horner. I can't tell you how much Jamie's face fell and part just to sell and Boga said, let's do this in mode, let's take money.

Jamie got in back of this on Star Trek. He used the same score base. He took twenty thousand in his budget and went to London and hired the London Symphony Orchestra. And I just love that score so much, and it makes those action scenes just shine. Every single cut into every single loop.

We I was just meat music editor, and he would make me, for every count go back and forth, one frame forward and one frame back and then and then the frame if that was the exact French. He didn't want to be off with one frame, and he will me do that. Every single cut, everything added to He made everything work in the fullest and and his love things little great, you know, and it's a suspense theme were great. Just he was inspired by Prokovia when he was very fine about that. But he was such a master.

But I had to tell him years later. A year later, I was on my wh I was directing for Roger when I was going for the World, which he came in and I was having a screening. It was close to the final cut, and I invited into it, but he was late. And I really wanted my wife to do the score because I'd been producing for band, not usually but just like financially. When I met her, I heard her saying that for the first night I met her, and I asked her if she would be my tax deduction, my own and I give it to her to promote her then but she ran it.

So but I wanted a new wave of score. I didn't wanted or there was nothing straight about the Lily. I was doing lots of stuff straight about Battle Beyond the Stars and it wants to be a real movie. I was trying to be the next shift guy. But Roger caught on at the very end and I was satrized sword by.

That's in Cellular Wards Part two, which is coming out solely. But then another challenge was trying to make but the director was just shooting work. I could honestly say nothing work on its own, because he was an animator and an art director, and he storyboarded the whole movie and he shot the storyboards and the characters were great, were fun, but you know, camera never moved like you know. The staging was Christine him. It was very traditional Japanese in nature.

You know, people came in, he said what they've said, and they leave, you know, and it's very formal. The entrances is so and I kept giving notes saying the camera's got to move, and finally Cameron got a feather thing that it's like a dentist chair and we could go like this. A lot of a lot of the cockpit shots have done like that. So he is great bringing movement in this or in book Break. Really excited.

They've got movement. Yes, s to make everything work was the staging that was rather stilted. It was to make it not look and and so many actresses, you know, they like their head before they say they're lying. You know, sorry, give me a British I'm picking up and yet and then but the director was thinking he got everything on the set, all the emotion is there, and why isn't it In the end everyone. Blames the editor.

So there's that, you know, And and keeping up the pace is incredible because you have to you have to have your cut of what they shoot today tomorrow because you three days after the last shot, you show you the whole film and that's the schedule. There's more to what worked to be done. But if you can't do that, you can't be alone. You can't edit for Rogers. I had proven myself time and time.

I was never anything. You know, the movies I've come and were well cut, and Roger was really happy with me, and you know, and and so the other big challenges I was trying to mention it was the ele coon and it would break down a lot, and there was always worrating. So it was a mystery as to what this thing would actually look like. Well, it's time because all you're doing is editing the talk, editing the action, and the script had you know, numbers for every piece of action, and that was scheduled, and it was storyboarded by chopping, but I wasn't seeing it. In the editing, I was seeing lots of Flyboy.

I wasn't seeing the action. The fly vines were great and interesting em the start, you know, the construction model construction led by this cotext was great and Gen Cameron the main ship. Now he breasts once he got it right. I kept saying, we're not getting the shots, and so they were blaming me for not cutting them in and and then I was accused of not knowing enough technically what was going on, and that the second editor his friends with the producer, and the producer's first choice for the editor, he got equal footing, and he started walking out of the clipboard reading off the shot and screening and every first screening we had. I went to Roger.

I said, who's got the final final stake? He said, do you both do it? I said, can? That doesn't worry I have to have final say. He said, okay, but you have an equal power.

But that didn't last very long because the film we had, we had the screening and he was reading off all, you know, one hundred shots and saying what they were and people came away from the screening like, oh, I finally see the movie. You saw numbers on the light slug that were read perfectly, you know, and you know, and I doubt value. I still I stuttered then quite a bit. So I tended not to start her a lot because I chose not to speak and always but when I had to, and that I had lots of ways to be flowing. But I still stuttered, you know.

It was still a wind start. So I would never want to read shots. And he read perfectly. And I was in the elevator with him, and I said, you know, he did a really great job reading those shots and he said, oh no, I learned that in the fifth in the third grade. And you know, that's when I stuttered.

So it was like, and that's when I was having all that trauma. Alan can't talk what happened to Alan, you know, And so I didn't lay it on, but it was like I had that perspective, but I also had that determination. And so it didn't take long before I saw Roger walking dejected in the parking lot, and I said, what's the matter. He said, I can make my release date. I just met with Chuck and he said, we're far behind and we need more time, and I don't have the money, wonder, And I said, and if you give me all the power, I can get it done with.

We have so many flybys and so many characters shouts and the ships, and we just do. And they had the greatest where it's go department, and you know, lots of people devoted. We had the garbage mats then, which is draw your own laser beam over the shot. We just make it, make your But it worked because it was fast, you know. And and there we were.

So I said to Roger, we have enough flop flybys. I can do two kama kazi, you know, two battles all the time, Kama kazi type lines to the main ship. It's a different battle, a bit different, you know, each basically the storylines. Each of the said of Samurai dying and the last one helps, you know. So it's like so that's how And so I needed complete control, and you gave it to me.

And I basically stayed up four weeks the blessed but it was five weeks I think the less week or two I was sleeping in the editing. But I was just doing everything I could and uh, and and I wanted it was one a funny moment where I really wanted these to come at you. You know, you get some real action and graphics. Chris and said, that's not realistic. You mean realistic the fucking winds of battle.

It's okay, I'll do it. And it looks great, you know, it's wonderful, you know, right, and and I and I learned when I was editing Annedy's writing nurses, Joe Dante and Alan Argush were cutting trailers and in trailers and then they do the sound. You have to do the say you have to do everything you can do the sound for effects. You have to have to set the role for effects, and so you have a lot of space between the sounds, and so you fill that with leader and you get that cheap from the lab. When they make a print of the film it doesn't work, rather than throwing it out will sell if we're penny foot.

And so sometimes they give you great films. You get a world of great films. And so they kept them and it was called the Dante Arcistram Royal Archive. One of the reals was the bridge scene from Peckham Pols, The Wild Budge and I studied that shootout and explosions and all that, and I saw that there was like three or four frames of clear leader, and you know it was caused by the heaviness of the explosion. But I have clear leader.

So from that point, any from starting from canty strike nursing, anytime there was a gunshot, I would add one or two frames of clearer made gunshot and with battle like acts of slavery being to add little things and you know, and make like when guelp dies it spepthetic. He came in. You know, here's Robert blond. He's got the sleekest ship, coolest introduction scene, you know, he and he's got great lines and he played he reprises this role from Magnificent seven. And his death scene comes in with one shot, two cameras static.

He's in this ship and smoke comes out and he winsas like this, and that's all I have, so time for subliminal editing kind of what flats everything that It was a big optical charge, but you have to put if you can't negative single frames, so you have to put everything on an optatus stand. But you know it's ultimately, you know, a cheap effect It's still an expensive effect, but not as expensive. You got to animate or reshoot or bring the actor backs right and Roger like that. One thing that I praised about the film when I was having a discussion with my co host was I always know where I'm at when it comes to those space battles, because there's too many times where I will watch a battles scene and I have no idea where I am where anybody else is in relation to each other.

You keep both of those battles, but the entire film, you keep me in the action and I know what is happening and who's getting affected by things. It's the editor's job to do that. Yeah, it's it's also important to confuse you at the beginning, but you do as long as you can locate yourself shortly therein. It's actually a technique that Michael Kanye's is all the time spield book smooth and it's a good and I used it before knowing about Michael. But in dialogue scenes that you don't really want to open up on the wide shot, it's like how boring, you know, open up in the middle and reveal so the least the next cut and maybe boring but it reveals something, you know, so what's your proceeding seeing?

But thanks? Thanks? Good. So I know that John Sales was getting calls throughout the project and saying, you know, we can't have these ships landing there. You know you need to change some things.

Do you worry? That's true? You may have gotten that in the beginning, but through the production he responded to changes. There were changes just before we shot, and then there weren't any changes bottles, and then the shooting was going. We can't afford that we didn't get pages in gay but he got a lot of changes towards the end.

But that's it. I don't know how else to say that obviously consistently threat that it had in the beginning, or throwing out pages that night, there may have been some changes that I I mean, I have to say that when I edited, I really don't like to go off the script because I really want to show them to be what it speaks to me, and so I don't. I don't study the script. I studied the film. My approach is more East coast and West coast because I was trained in New York and the New York editors don't have a lot of time, and so they like to make their decisions while they're watching it for the first time, and maybe if it's really complicated to watch it, make the decision the second five.

But that's it. But while you're watching it, you mark what you like and what you think is usable. And then while you're doing that and you're formulating some kind of an idea of the shape of the thing. But everything you like you take out and you hang it in the trim and you organize it. So now you're only doing machines that you like, and so you can even build it on a sachronizer out looking at us.

But you know, I have a structure in your mind of what you like and fitting that it becomes a challenge, and then if you don't like it, you can always go back and rework it. You have suddenly like you It's a very positive sighting way to work, rather than the la work, which is to break everything down the rolls, look at the script, see everything that was covered by then, and then make your decision as you go, and you build from the beginning. In the New York ways, you find your most You were able to recognize where you're going, and that's how you get there, you know, you know you're mission shot or like the shot that's key, and then build up to that, you know you don't use that kind of shot earlier sort of thing.

Can you tell me about the end of the film. Was the end always what was supposed to be there? Yeah? But this but it was great Rogers shot with the actual pilot shut and Nenelia go up at the very end sad Or getting blunt blown out. This was all the winds theater, but the actual shoot.

I was on the set that night and Roger had gone out to dinner with Roger and Julie, two couples, and then he was bringing them to the States to see the big effects shot. Because for the sad Or ship, every inch of that stage confuters. There were no walls. What you're seeing is the entire stage. Everything is built on platforms within that's the full space.

There was also the swing stage that was not sound improved, where you could build something, but anyway, it was filled and it had like about twenty miles do more in full uniform and Roger George, who's Roger Corman's a long time to the fecks guy, and he's got burns all over his body from well he's fro you know, and but he's but it's local. Just he's doing everything, you know, and he's marching around and he's a big guy and he's awful sweat. And Jimmy is talking to John Saxon, who was really nervous because things are going to be exploring and he's going right behind him and how tall is is he? Have you ever done this before? Or what's going to happen?

So he was really scared. So fad Or is like fear. I will live forever. It's like the real and I'm luckily had a front with sheet to it all and it had to be finished by midnight because you had gone to overtime and something. It was a crash in the back of the set and a platform with false Well, all these people start to rush and then he heard his voice, booming voice calling out, it's Roger's voice.

It's not in the shot, don't worry about it. Take the shot. How was Roger Corman to work for? Inspiring and frustrating. He's really cheap and he doesn't budge.

I mean the most can you say more often than anything else is but Roger, but you know he achieved greatness in his career and through and abundance and really smart and really you know, really forged class. He was independent slash exploitive, you know, being movie where he was the top. Canaan had more money and they every now and then they had better movies, but they spent it much much low money. It's not He's not even close. And for their lower budget Jones there were you know, they're action Jones, but you know it was a different company.

They were more of a middle ground thing. But you know, Roger was the class because he was a really good director. I mean he had hit some of the shelves. I mean Bucket of Blood. It is one of my favorite films ever.

And it has the best line ever in a movie, which is Dick Miller's line. He's the sculptor about and above the coffeehouse and he's trying to sculpt the face and he says, come on, being knows, being knows. And I worked with Chuck Griffith later and he was directing Gail ann HER's first movie, Smoking Bites That Dust. But he hates second unit director. They're always trying to prove himself to Roger.

Roger oldwhire's directors on their way up or on the way down at the same price and the same kind of risk director your risk talent and the director on his way down risk attitude. Are they really going to stick all? Are they going to try? Or no? The young guys just want to try, and you know they're irritating to the old guy.

She how did Celluloid Warrist the making of Battle Beyond the Stars come about for you? I had written my novel prior to that to uncover my past. So I was used to writing every day, and I wanted to make sure the next movie I did was a good one. I was tired of having movies fall apart from one rease or another, had sound effects and distribution plans, bad title whatever. I had done nine movies or eight movies, number, but you know, I still I wanted something good.

And I knew going back to Roger there was going to be political battles left and right. Chris, the only way to prove yourself. Everybody wants to direct everybody, and everybody has an equal shock. Because Hollywood, actually the most common director is the first time the director and features fifty at least in those days, were first time to the directors. Then it goes down after that, you know.

So the most you know, so everybody. The only way to get ahead is to put down the person above you, and you do it until it's chappening in you and you can see it, you know. So I knew I had to understand all the battles and I had to win the battle. And Kane came here, and he was a really influential book for me, as the use and the person running the ship was nuts and blow, not the person in charges, the lieutenant the ends in Kellogg. I think it's name that keeps itournal.

So he could understand who to follow the call out orders or do I follow what's to write, you know, for the for the navy or whatever you know, for the shift. And when I was learning from my teacher from theater, was making up drum educated kincationing and it was great. Like the first I read was John Cock Cow's journal dut diary of the film that he kept on the making of Beauty and the Beast, and it was all about special effects and all the nurses, the pain, all the things that went wrong, and I was a wonderful book. So that was my inspiration because that got he kept that journal, so it somehow gives you power for the next day. And I didn't want to lose.

I just had to win, so I did it. But I would write at midnight all the time. I was like whenever my girlfriend no life for forty two years was a sleep. That's when I tied, it's a little out type writitor. She didn't bind.

I worked it out, and I have the original type ninuscript too, But I didn't think it was a book. I was actually intending to write a book. The original title as I got into it was from my point of view, editing the invisible arc. Just didn't know about the movie editing at all, so I wanted to sell it was just as much art and B movie. The editing answeries in a movie editing, in fact sometimes more because a movies, it's like a lot of time is trying to choose the best shot amongst five different versions of great performances.

In B movie editing mostly goes to the time crunch, how do you make a performance? Much different? So, when did you manage to get this published? Or how did you manage to get this published? I was teaching USC as an adjunct for fun, you know, because I was still I was still a full time editor and at that point, and so I switched into documentary feature editing as a film doctor.

And so I and I went to the national conferences and then all the publishers and you think, first of all had no interested in B movies or Roger, and they had no interest in the journal and no interest in editing. Basically, so I was losing on every count. I was. I guess about six seven, sixteen years ago, I was in I was at red. I was saying, I have been working as a film doctor, Rob I shouldn't broadcast at because other people know that you saved their movie.

But that's what I didn't do, whether it's documentary or thriller. Hard. So I was working on this movie called the blob Blob Fish. She was about obesity, and I hired this graph artists fire the movie I'd said before that was an army movie called Area of Conflict that possibly one thousand gunshots. I was atter cut the sound too.

It was just awful. Anyway, he did the poster for it. So I went to him for the poster for Blah Blah Fish. You know, we got to talking in the lobby, and I told him about the book I had, you know, just he he read told me that he'd published graphic novels and made graphic novels, so he read the book and thought it could be great with the graphic novel treatment. And I love that idea, and.

The book looks fantastic and it's super striking. So it's funny to hear out how that came about, because that was definitely a question as well. And you said that you're working on part two or you finished up Part two? Well, part has been ready since nineteen eighty two. Although I did do I did write when Roger P.

Mccorman tied, and I actually the picture that's online of her movie theater saying hell to the chiefs. I shot that. I didn't know that they will publish a bloodshot, and I gave it to Bill and put it on Instagram and then they've picked it up. But Bill's working on the artwork. We have actually Chris Horner, the production designer.

I met with him a year ago and he had his photographs and didn't know existed. Negatives. Crew's working just great. I mean, it's so funny to see all these guys with their shirts off with poles and it's little monster thing and the camera people up all the work with the building. You know, it's just great seeing all these young people know a situation with no blinding and it's a great shot where the head is in the hallway and this is in the art direct the person is just the hallway be he eats something.

It's just really exhausted the robot. It's really I wrote it as one book. One of my techndal was welcome to the Roger Corman School of Film. That's what Roger told me. Because my finally saved battle.

I asked him to direct eight times. He asked me to cut down and see terror and I said, Roger, I've done the any time. I said, Roger, I've done with everything I could for you as an editor. I want to direct. And he said, can you stutter and direct?

And I said, I started a less. When I'm directing, I make control, but I still stutter. But it's in the act of communicating, which is more than most directors do. He said, you have a point there, and I'm going to put you through the Roger Corman School of Filmmaker. Do you have a date for when that's going to out both getting me a date a few months ago.

Well, he does everything Brett graphically. It just takes time. So I'm hoping, you know, it's like it's close, it's getting He made a little announcement a couple of months ago he was getting close, but he moved his office and he'd relocated in South Carolina Glendale. But everything is remote anyway, and I'm hoping. I'm not counting.

I'm just I wanted to finish my biographical movie, which is called Cell You a Lloyd wars Well Ultimate. At the end of the book, I said, go watch the movie for the whole story, because the book is only is really just about trying to make trying to shoot them, you know. And then in from this last sneak preview when Roger punched the guy, but we should be talking more about battles unless you want to hear that story, since oh. I would love to hear that story. Yeah, I don't think I know that one.

I was in the editing room waiting and starting to cut Crazy Mama when Death Race two thousand was in this final edit and Roger taking a lot of the comedy out. It still wound up being quite funny, but he was taking a lot of the big laughs out because he didn't like to mix. He basically saw it as a hard film because nuns were being old and I didn't want the laughter. It didn't want it because when you're dealing with a mixture of humor and horror, you have to get good word of mouse, and Rogers distribution pattern does not allow for any of that because the plan is to make a limited number of prints. The most would be two hydra.

They tour and you're in town for a week maximum two, and if it's really a hit, you go three. But you know your plan on two and your ship away, so you can't depend on your audience. Doesn't look at the Jews anyway. Your audience is a driving audience. That it's that type, you know, and it's a date audience because girls get scared in horror and the comedies are silly.

You know, you go for all of it. The common with the car company, So Paul was cut. I was kind of hiding that, but Roger caught started taking the stuff out and I watched how painful that was. So when it came time, and you know, when he got someone who gets killed every seven minutes, and there's six every five minutes, you know, and the monster grows, he grows, and I don't know, it's like, you know, you've got to have some humor, you know, otherwise you know not you know, the characters to be silly, but you want as a filmmaker, you want to touch that extreme thing, so you get people to laugh while they're still on edge, you know. And American Werewolf in London had just come out, you know, and so like it made it okay, it's really hip to do that.

It's cool, you get it away with it, like now it's mainstream, there's an audience for that, or an established film with that. And so I asked everyone at a screening for Roger, and the screens were all at his company. I only sat eight people, and I asked anyone who was in the screening because I know I knew all of them not to laugh, and they hottered that. And so Roger ever heard a laugh until the sneak preview, and all the years I worked for him, he never had a Snake Creek preview. I didn't anticipate that at all.

And it was at the Culver Cinema, which is a big cinema now now it's a four worplex, and they were showing moving violations and it was only like a Friday night, pretty big house, and the screening announcement was just a little cardboard that said sneak preview newt that's it, and it was like this David's. So the audience was slowly seeing a movie they didn't expect to see. Plus they had just installed new aisle lights and they didn't know how to turn them off, so the audience was kind of lich. You could see everybody anyway. I was standing in the back of the theater as I usually do, and they went nuts.

And just before I got the job, I had to do additional scenes for a kung Fu movie and I did the love scene and the chase scene for a fire record, And in the chase scene, I had a woman lead. This is an article clothing and every scarmadge and I got standing ovation in Hollywood for that. So it was like I was able to do it again with this, and I was like in the back of the theater, thinking this is it. I did it, and Roger comes storming up the aisle its right, passing with his head of posts and there's a guy in the back of the theater jelly at the screen and Rockers stands over. He waits for him to say something, and he punches him like this and basically much harder than that, and goes stop like this is a serious sci fi movie, and he stands are a little like this, and the rest of the audience is going nuts.

So he comes and throwing it up to the aisle of the theater, going all and this is the first sneak I've had in twenty three years. But don't worry. Ibn't how to say that. I said say it was great, And we argued outside of the theater about good comedy versus backco comedy. And that's when all the young people suddenly show how much they know about the film by agreeing with Roger, and some people were pretty loyal, but it didn't matter.

He said, be there in any tomorrow to make the changes or not someone else do it. And the guy who we punched he supposed to leave, and he's in it soon with his wife and mother company and guy who we punched it's really big comes out carrying a large code and he throws it at Roger gets some square in the back and Roger turns like and it goes, no, we're even, and he walks away, and so I had to take out that. We screened it again in Hollywood Boulevard and they still laughed, and and then we screened it in Torrents and no one came. But you know, most of the film that's out, it's been it's still funny because the tumor is in exaggeration and an idea and concept. It just said, you know, when I did this montage that was probably got the most laps when you know, the monster gets killed with tumor because he gets killed with cancer and the main lab guy played by Fox Harris as a chainsmoker, and then he discovers that he has cancer and cancer could go to duty.

So he has the main lab guy take a tumor, his tumor out to feed it to the mutant. And I had witnessed I was editing the Philippines like surgery where they actually pull the tumor out, so I replicated that in an exaggerated way. So he and they and he sends off to the young girl Don Dunlop should get morphine. So she's in the hallways and but the muton comes out and starts to chase her, so they don't have time, so he's got to use a mattinow, so he has they come up with the mat and then pull the tumor out. So there are lots of cuts to that, lots of screams from he doesn't have painkiller.

Meanwhile, the young girl is being chased by the mutant, so it's a chorus of screams and rust I think I had up to fifteen screams going. And when you hear that many screams into the guys scream the girl's going to ask me, and they're a real scream. I mean, they really got into this, and it's all visually really exciting, and it's like, by this a scream, you're laughing, you know, so by the fifteenth year old Rory, So he cut out half the I mean cut half the screams. You're still it's still funny. The first one fun but you know, you don't get it's supposed to be funded, you know that sort of thing.

It's likely he dropped the first line that tells you this is gonna be funny. So they have to get into this clean room before they go into the lab and you know it's a low budget, right, So I took a carnation box that you could see through and that began, did an overhead shot with a color and so it comes home with this blue color with a buzz and the astronaut goes, and this is a pure for shifts. Now he goes, what is this microwave? And guy says, no, he has an online but that line was this microwave right at the beginning. Let you know the last and pick that out.

So like the signal to Laft was never there. The humor is discovered. But you know it's so I can never work for him again. I do bond and he offered me a dream more things to direct that I just couldn't be. You know, he just you know I felt, But I wrote a great I wrote maybe you know, sixteen pages on that night.

You know, it's like I wrote that when it happened to I didn't like recover and then write perspective. I didn't want that writer for that. But writing for the moment. You know, as long as you open up saying what you feel and put in the work right, motion comes out. Oh it's you know.

At one point in the part to you know, I realized that I'm a newtant. That's when or how can people see sateullite worse the movie that you just did about yourself. I'm just shiitish, So it's not for the public. I'm trying to if you know of the film festival that it's really hard to try to figure out how to sell it to a film festival because it is part disability. The stuttering, you know, is I'm also writing my memoir and like the thing to really good into.

The first is called How I Lost my Virginity as a starter. The last chapter is How I Survived How started in the director because at one point after reading, Julian Phillips discovered me because her son, Chris Harry Eckland represented Scorsese and de Niro or miss Scott. His son was the PA on newtont and his job used to get two hundred dead animals and beginning that are kills as killed, and his father was really intrigued by someone who had started moving the fact and he wanted to see it, and he brought Julie Phillips with him, and she declared me the next sports Ese Spielberg and attached me to a script similar to et that she and s Bilberg came out of th En Calendis with a mission to make an extraterrestrial film for kids.

So they were competing, although evenly. Seed inside and she introduced me around Hollywood as a starting director, and the pollowed deal with TriStar. First start had to approve of me as he's starting director. WHI with him, and he didn't mention starting at all. He just said, what's your take on the movie?

He told me that sounds good, And she was supposed to be off of cokaine. She wasn't and it was discovered and they canceled the movie. I just left the lurch. But I so I needed to get accepted at festival. When I appointed the movie the first time ten years ago, it was called cook Cut.

And you know, I have won I think six film festivals with nine different feature documentaries, and I got rejected everywhere, didn't get to a single plumpestor even the ones that I had won before. If you're making a film about myself, it just doesn't sell. You just don't. And now it's a little more hip to do that, you know, but you know, and it's not handicapped nature of stuttering isn't enough to be all the other handicapped that are out there. Then they brilliant movies, you know, and they're shot in four K and gun.

The LEA produced this has done all through archival stuff and stuff like generated and it's you know, it's but it's gotta be seen to be appreciated, and you could seem it's very difficult. So I'm just starting. I just start that. I just finished it really get before yesterday, So I just put up on the video and I'm happy for you to see with a pant sport and if your plans want to see it, I'm happy to send them email or send you an email to send to them with the password. And I'm happy to get feedback and people to talk about it.

I just can't lease it one day a little bit. I've made actually quite a few movies that are sitting on the table. One couldn't you know? It was about Marilyn Monroe that I made with the Marin Monroe fan Club, and each person had a personal story, not that they shared with her, but Carrie about her. It's just it's so intimate and she started, Oh, I did not know that that's how she developed that voice.

Is the best place for people to keep up with you. Your website, Alan Holtzman dot com. Not really, but if you add a Gmail, they can reach me. My web plane is there. It's not active, but you can see all the work.

But I don't there's no one for contacting you, but it's my name is Gmail. Mister Holtzman. Thank you so much for your time. This was so great talking with you. It was great talking with you, and I hope we can do it again.

All right, we are back and we were talking about Battle Beyond the Stars. By the end of the movie, it is a bit much. The body count is rather high, and look like I appreciate and get that it incorporates stakes into it, because in Star Wars the body count is not high at all. Really, like I mean, like what we get like one character? It's one character a movie, is what it feels like?

What body count? You got all duran, right, and then all those poor Stormtroopers that signed on and they're just like what They're going to blow up the entire space station I'm. Working on bigs and Porkin's like bite it. But then we've just met them, haven't we. I mean really like the only character of any consequence was Graham mov Tarkin.

Or ben Kenobe. But I guess ben Kenobi doesn't even really die. Becomes more powerful than you could possibly imagine. But that's the thing for me like with this movie is like the body count's kind of high. I do.

I guess I'm manivalent about it. I was curious what y'all thought, because I mean, pretty much everybody dies into the movie. I mean, I get it, I get what your inspiration was, but man, like you didn't have to, I mean, that didn't have to be part of the inspiration. I'm glad that they went there with it, but man, the body count of this movie is rather high. And then the movie's ending just kind of goes and they're all with us forever.

What wa wa wa wa? What the fuck? The ending of this movie is abrupt, to say the least. That was the thing I liked looking into when it came to doing the research for this was why is that ending so abrupt? And apparently they just were like, hey, John Sales, can you come back and like rate us and new ending for this because the original after the fight is done, we cut to a landing field and we've got Shad is there, and Nanelli is there, and then also Nestor is there, and Nnelli is like, are you going home?

Nestor says we must never return there. The risk of bringing disease is too great, and she says that's it, and he goes. We are there now, just as the others are here where one is, all are, and Nessa says to them when they offer to stay, they say, your congenial forms and your varda are good. You have a lovely but rather dull planet. We must seek adventure.

And then okay, good luck to you. Nestor. Kelvin is even there, and Kelvin starts playing with children and stuff, and it's like, oh, okay, that's nice. That was my moment. When Cowboy dies, it's like, oh man, shit just got real.

It's a lot. By the end of a pretty everyone dies kind of a seemingly en ignominious death too, other than the space shift goodbye appairly just. Oh and nell survives as well, So I wanted to put that out there. Sat Eggsman comes in, everyone treats her like a fucking joke, and ye, it's her. She's the one who saves the day you And by the way, speaking of movies that inspire other things, not just SAME's horne of ripping off himself, but like Independence Day, I think just that's her.

Andy Kraaid's character is just Saint Eggsman, isn't it. Totally? She is amazing. She is absolutely amazing. And I love that she's kind of playing this t Shirol Maffune character.

And with Mufune, they just kind of treat him like he's a fool. Eventually kind of you know, add some some stuff to the Battle of Memory Serves. It's been decades since I've seen The Seventh Samurai. I wanted to see it. It was playing at the Detroit Film Theater last year and I missed it, which kills me.

But this whole thing of like, oh, she's just a joke, she's just a natch. She just you know, bother bothering people, and they never once she gets to the planet's surface, they kind of embrace her, but they still kind of treat her like a joke. And like you said, she's the one, She's the purest. And I love this whole thing too of how they based her character. I'd like those Native American guys who would battle with people, and basically it was like, if I can humiliate you, I've won the battle.

And so this whole thing of her just beaming light at him and being like, hey, great, thank you for the battle. You know, you've just basically been bested by Saint Xian of the Valkyrie. Yes, that is wonderful. And like you said, fucking saves the day. Man, I think that's wonderful because that's I don't think Muffune saves the day.

And I know for sure that the guy who is in the Mafune roll doesn't really save the day in the Magnificent Seven either. But boom, here we are with her and fucking Sebile Danning nineteen eighty Holy Schnike's she could be now, and I love how they have her laying back in the ship and stuff, and I'm like, Okay, that looks very awkward. It's like she's driving a lowrider molded the seed for her just so we can look over the valley of her breast at all time. And then the other outfit, which just looks like a big piece of bandage that wraps around her, not like Leelu type bandage it's almost like more electrical tape going up. And down her.

I'm like, okay, there you go, Wendy Oh Williams of the plays Mats. Is there nothing this movie you can't do? I think. I'm just impressed by the amount of distance that they go with the two million dollar budget. Which a lot of by the way, went to Purpard and Robert Vaughugh, I.

Know, which is the even crazier part. So they're working at a huge deficit with that two million dollars, and then still they delivered all of this. When I went back and rewatched Magnificent seven, I noticed the idea of the break in the final fight, because this movie again no wasted scenes. We get these seven warriors probably by what middle of the film, and then there's barely any time that they spend on a keyr before they then have this battle with Sador and the battle goes on for a while, we lose some people, and then we kind of regroup, and I like this regrouping moment on the planet before we have the next installation of the the battle and then like, the people that didn't die before are about to die now except for our two heroes, thank god.

But it's just I love that little pause in between. And it's very similar to what they did in Magnificent Seven as far as Okay, the first battle's over, Oh we heard something's going on over here. So they run away or. They go away. Actually I think they get kicked out of the town because they're accused of doing some so anyway, and then they eventually come back and there's Eli Wallack there just waiting for him, and I'm like, Okay, that's nice that we had this little bit of a respite between, so it's not just boom boom boom, boom boom.

To your point, Chris, the idea of the ending being so abrupt is a little tough for me sometimes too, because it's like, no, no, I want to see them celebrate. I don't need them to get fucking medals like Star Wars or anything. But it's just like, let's see a little bit of the new life on a kere. They kind of don't have a moment of everybody acknowledging that everybody else does. It's just kind of I mean, there is.

It's literally the last line of the movie. It's like, and they'll be with us forever, all right. It feels a little bit of like a forced cop out. It's kind of like the end of Seventh Samurai, right, It's you know, it's the battle ends, and we don't really spend any more time with anybody. We just get shots of the swords sort of that have been stuck into the earth and memoriam of those who have fallen, and then that's the end.

I mean, I guess that didn't have to be something you drew an inspiration from Seven Samurai. This movie did not need to be a one for one remake. Like at this point in the movie that we've gotten with all of these characters that we have now fallen in love with, with only one or two scenes, maybe we can commiserate with them and or celebrate. Just a moment, just a little bit more. I don't need the whole yub nub scene and for like cutting to everybody celebrating around the galaxy kind of bullshit.

Poor Shad too, when you think about it, Like I said, like Julie Duffius's sister. Basically kills his own sister, or has Robert Vaughan killed. Yeah, Shad has lost almost everything because Nell's gone. Now, Zed's gone by his sister's gone. It's like, now he's got this new girlfriend at least, but it's like, what is life going to be like for you now?

And now he's the course there that zed was like, he's the only one that has taken a life, which is really something sacred for them, and they're they're I guess the Verda must be like their holy book or their holy sayings, because sometimes it feels like they switch when it comes to like articles and stuff. It's like the Varda or your I don't know, it just seems like they refer to it oddly. I just think that was their religion. I don't know that it was necessarily a text, although it could refer to a text. I think it was just sort of the overall it's their version of the Force, I'm sure, yeah.

Or the closest approximation anyway. At least they don't say, may the Verda be with you. And also with you. I mean, none of this feels Star warsy enough to even like it doesn't feel star warzy at all. No, I didn't even include this.

I wrote a big article years ago about Star Wars ripoffs. I didn't include this film because to me, this is not it, you know, stuff like was it Richard Keel the humanoid movie that he had or the one with Star Star Crash is amazing. There's all of these movies where I was like, no, no, this is a Star Wars ripoff. I don't consider this one to be a Star Wars ripoff. I think it was just there was an opening for sci fi at that time.

There's an appetite for it, and this is what they did, and I I'm appreciative that it doesn't feel like just a Star Wars ripoff. Thank god. There's no fucking lightsaber type battle or anything. Could have easily gone there and they could have gotten away or not gotten away with it, but would have felt entitled to do, because if they were remaking a Samurai picture. It could have been Sato or going like, oh, I'm gonna cut your legs off or whatever because I need you know, your feet look better than mine.

Or something some misguided land a battle. Don't know that. Thank god, we don't need a duel here, one. Of There's so many movies that have to end yes in a duel or a fucking fist fight. So many action films that I watch where it's like, oh, these guys have been like trading barbs and you know, doing all these things to each other through this whole movie, and then it ends in a fist fight on a boat and it's like, Okay, I really didn't need this.

Thanks for all the ingenuity up until now. And it's. Cool story, bro. I love Battle Beyond the Stars. Everyone should see it.

I'm shocked that. I'm shocked at given the proclivity of Corman to try to print as much money as he could, that they make eleven million dollars off of this, and that we don't get any version of a sequel. Obviously, he just kept making sci fi movies and using all of the pieces of this movie, both on sets and through visual effects. Can I just say, by the way, that I used to live in Venice, California, on Rose Avenue, off of Rose Avenue, which is where Corman Studio was, So I would walk past Corman Studio every day to get to my car to go to work. And so in the parking lot there were always a couple of pieces of things.

There was always Frankenstein's car from Death Rays two thousand and there was a piece of a ship from this movie. And come to find out. All of the interiors were also filmed there at the studio in Venice, and I never went in there, and now I could kill myself for not going. I love those stories about how they were literally built. They weren't just building the sets at that time, they were building the fucking studio.

When it comes to the Hammerhead ship that they were using the tops and bottoms and sides of the actual like studio itself. They had what three stages. I think it was so Galen Hurt says two, Corman said three. I tend to go with Corman on that one, but I think the third one was where they were shooting all a lot of the model work and stuff. I love those stories, and I love the whole thing of like, you know, we told the actors like, don't lean against this because the paint's still wet, like we're literally working on this until right now kind of thing, and the whole stuff of Apparently there was a leak in the ceiling at some point and there was water on the floor, and they said they're putting cables, like all these electrical cables just on apple boxes to try to keep them up and dry.

And I'm like, God, damn like all of these horrible things that are going on, and yet they still make this amazing work of art for me. And it's everything you want when you think about making a movie. You want it to be all of that, you know, like that putting the apple boxes and the you know, dodging water and I don't know, you talked. About it recently with some other things where the story behind the making of this movie is probably pretty wild. I don't know if it's wild in this case of this movie, but it definitely would be one worth hearing and reading about because again, like like we've already all talked about and alluded to, like this is a kind of filmmaking that it's very like ground level, like boots on the ground, like people are, you know, everybody doing everything other than it seemed the actors like you know, be rummaging through trash cans and you know, making the most out of what they have.

Like this is just I don't know, watching something like this turning out as well as it does, Like, yeah, it's pretty inspiring stuff. In Germany, this movie is called Sador Ruler of Space. Pretty good title for a movie. I do have to say, I always get Battle Beyond the stars mixed up with battle? What does a battle beyond the sun?

And then there was battle was the Battle of the Planets or Battle of Planets? Battle of the Battle of the planetsime? That was like the only anime I was watching as a kid. I believe that's actually called gotcha Man in Japan, but we knew it as Battle as Planets, which I mean, come on, Casey Kasem did the vice in the American version there got it? I barely remember that.

I would just remember liking it and hating it all at the same time. Oh my god. They had a ship, the Phoenix, and then like each of the separate people had their own parts that would come in and out of the ship, motorcycles and race cars and ship. Oh my god. All right, We're gonna take a break and play preview for next week's show.

Right after these brief messages. I'm gonna go wherever you go? You know that? Who said that? Who said that?

Who said they were grackles? Crackers? That could be starling? Is there is there a duration that you feel that you want to drug? Is the one you feel drawn to?

Where would we go? Look at the starlings? Everybody their nose and they look at me in a certain way, and they talk to. Me in a certain way. No way that you don't look at me yet.

Where would we go? I feel like, you know, it could be Starlings. Where would we go? Somewhere? Right?

How do you get there? How do you get there? I'm gonna go, you. Know, that's where We'll be back next week. But they look at upstream color until then.

I want to thank my co host Christen father Malone, so FM. What is the latest with you? Sir? Check out everything I'm doing over at my show Midnight Viewing, where these two gentlemen join me every other week to talk about Tamson the Dark Side. But every Monday do a show called Father Malone's Weekly round Up where I look at new streaming and or new releases in theaters.

And then we've also got a show where we look at anthology films in general. And then HP from night mister Walters and I are also looking at the movies of John Fusca. We're very busy Midnight Viewing. Join us over there, and Chris, how about yourself? Hey?

You can find everything that I work on over at Weirdingwaymedia dot com, where this show my show, The Culture Cast. Everything I work on can be found other than the ranking on Bond, which Mike, You and I do once a month with our friend Richard HadAM and father Malone joins us from time to time and we talk about James Bond. So if that's the thing you're into, cool, If not, just like rate and review this show on iTunes and anything that you engage with from any content creator, regardless of whether or not they are with weirding Way Media. Thank you so much guys for being on the show. Thanks everybody for listening.

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