Episode 757: What Ever Happened to Baby Jane (1962)

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Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. Cut it off. Sister's sister also fair? Why is there blood all. Over your hair?

Whatever happened to baby Jane? To seek the answer to that question, we will follow a man plotting a murder highly specialized work. Robert Aldrich has considerable experience such matters. He has a dozen successful pictures to his credit. His stars are Betty Davis and Joan Crawford.

The scene an italianate villa in a once fashionable section of Los Angeles. Its halls, once. Crowded with the bright, the beautiful, and the celebrated, now echo only to hectic whispers, the insistent call of a buzzer that are left unanswered, a telephone that has become an object of fear, a supper tray that will not be touched, a window barred against the world, a hammer, A mute scrawl crying for help from these elements. Director Aldridge his fashioned ocean picture with a curious title, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane. Betty Davis is Jane Hudson.

Joan Crawford is Blanchardson. But we must warn you if you're long standing fans of Miss Davis and miss Crawford, this motion picture is quite unlike anything they have ever done. There's a bold essay in the art of the macabre, a venture to the ultimate reaches of terror. A motion picture definitely not for the screaming, and we beg you which your intention bills to the screaming point A shock after shock assaults your senses. Try to remember that this is only a motion picture.

Try and remember. No, we we can't show you anymore. Only when you see whatever happened to Baby Jane will you know? And the answer is total suspense. Welcome to the projection booth.

I'm your host. Mike White. Joined me once again is mister Otto Bruno. Mike, happy as always to be with you. Also joining us is mister Tim Madigan.

Heavy But by the way, Mike, I don't want to be a stickler or anything. But it's doctor Tim Madden. Oh okay. Also joining us is doctor Tim Madigan. He's my PCP.

Thank What do you got there? Uh? This is a gallon of PCP. Wow A gallon? Yeah, that's that's illegal.

Right, It's a felony. It's a felony. Yes, wow, And uh here you are with it anyway? That is wow. I didn't even know it came in liquid form science.

We are kicking off a month discussing film starring starring might be a little stretch featuring Sure Yeah, featuring the oversized thespian himself, Victor Bruno. We start things off with Robert Aldrich's Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, the ground zero of the sub genre called hag exploitation or Psycho Biddy. The film stars Joan Crawford and Betty Davis as Blanche and Baby Jane Hudson. We will be spoiling this film as well as the FX show Feud as we go along, So if we don't want anything ruined, please turn off the podcast and come back after you've seen the movie and or the show, and we will still be here. So, Otto, when was the first time you saw Baby Jane?

And what did you think? I never saw this movie when I was young because I was never really interested in horror films or things like that. I was more interested in watching old Jewish comedians. I think I saw this film for the first time about ten years ago, just because I felt I needed to fill in that hole in my movie viewing checklist, and I watched. In fact, I think I watched one evening after another.

I watched this and then the follow up, Sweet Charlotte. I think I liked Sweet Charlotte better, but Doctor Tim and I just watched Baby Jane again this week, and I have to say I think I enjoyed it more this time around as an exercise in camp, more than I did as a serious picture. And I know some people would probably take offense to that. It certainly brings up some fascinating ideas. Most interesting for me is probably how Hollywood historically, maybe not so much right now in this moment, but historically tossed away women who were over forty years old.

So in that sense, that's probably the most interesting serious theme of this film to me. But it's fun. Who's going to argue it's fun to see Betty Davis torturing Joan Crawford. It's just a good time. And Tim, how about yourself?

I know I saw it many times on television when I was a kid, primarily because Unlike Otto, I was a monster kid. I loved watching old monster movies, and rightly or wrongly, it was often lumped in with In fact, it wasn't until many years later that I started to watch Joan Crawford and Betty Davis movies that were not their exploitation or horror films. And I just saw it again. Otto and I watched it a couple days ago, but I saw it about five years ago at an event called the Monster Bash, which occurs in Mars, Pennsylvania, twice a year people who love old monster movies, and it seemed very appropriate. And that was the one and only time I ever saw it on the big screen, which is of course how most of these movies were meant to be seen, but many of them we have never seen that way.

That must have been quite a treat, because this movie is beautiful to look at. The cinematography is fantastic. It is, and also the music is great by Frank Devol, who I believe also did the music for Sweet Charlotte and many other great films. Of course, and I remember him as Happy Kind on Fernwood Tonight. That's all I can think of when I think of Frank Devall's one of the.

Great deadpan performances of all time. Yeah. I like the music, how it plays with the letter to Daddy theme. And then there's the Baby Jane theme itself, which I guess because I know for sure. When we talk about Rush Sweets Charlotte in two Weeks, there was a theme written for it.

And who is it? Petty Page? Yeah, yeah, that was a hit. And then this one. I have never heard it sung by anybody other than Betty Davis, though not in the movie.

It's just outside of the movie. She sang it. Where did she sing on that? Slivon? Is that?

When she sang Williams Show? We watched the clip. From Oh that's the one Andy Williams Show. She put out a forty five of it too. We watched the clip that the Cookie Bear would come out and dance with her, but no such luck.

It took me a long time to see this one. I was more aware of its reputation than I was of the film itself. I haven't seen that many films by Betty Davis or Joan Crawford when I was in school. It was probably the first time that I saw movies by either of them. I was in a women in Film class and I got to see Now Voyager and then a few weeks later Miller Pierce.

So that was a very interesting experience, and especially to see both of those films. I think, if you throw Stella Dallas in there, you've got this real triumvirate of self possessed women with their daughters. I like how Betty Davis is the daughter and Now Voyager, but just yeah, and then who is it Paul Henry and that one with her such a great movie, And yeah, I really only ever knew of this from all of the pop culture, and when I finally watched it, the pop culture picks up on two or three little things from this movie. It really doesn't tell you what the whole story is, and it really just basically has a woman in crazy makeup torturing a woman in a wheelchair. And that's all I knew about this film.

I didn't know the whole backstory about Joan and Betty and why this was such a big deal that they're being cast together in this film for the first time. But I loved it, really enjoyed it. I liked it the first time, but now I think I love this. This movie had a really nice time revisiting this and then learning all the things that went on behind the scenes, and just seeing another Robert Aldrich film, because I really like him, and he's such a workmanlike director, but he brings some pinash to things. Yeah, one of my favorite films is The Flight of the Phoenix, which is so radically different from this film, but as you say, he is an excellent director, just to keeping your attention as you watch the various characters in motion.

Of course, the first Robert Aldrich film I ever saw was probably For for Texas, totally funny with Frank and Dean and Victor Buono because the rat Pack. Certainly Frank and Dean seem to like Victor Buono because he was in four for Texas and then just a short while after that he was in Robin and the Seven Hoods with them as well. So that's probably the first Aldrich that I ever saw. But see, my experience was totally different from you guys, because my film fanaticism really began with the old Warner Brother catalog of the thirties and forties, because our local PBS station used to show those movies on Friday night at around ten ten thirty and then they would replay the same film on Sunday afternoon.

So the first time I ever saw Betty Davis I know exactly, which I don't usually I usually can't pinpoint, but I know exactly. The first time I saw was in Petrified Forest opposite Bogart and Leslie Howard from nineteen thirty six. So I actually did see the young Betty Davis long before I saw anything like whatever Happened to Baby Jane or Sweet Charlotte or things like that. So I guess maybe if you see those things first, seeing her in this maybe fights you even more because while she was at the typical Hollywood glamour star, she wasn't attractive. When you see some of her roles in the thirties, she is attractive.

And I again, because all the music I follow was also from the thirties, forties or fifties, But somebody in the seventies or eighties, didn't they make a song Betty Davis eyes or something in Terns in Carns. There you go. I found it interesting that they actually use clips from some of their old films in this film, and that they're using the I can't remember which movie it is with Betty Davis, but they're using that as an example of what a poor actress she is, and Bert Freed is just out there in the little viewing room just like she's terrible, and I'm like, I don't see anything wrong with this performance. She's exactly very capable actress. And apparently she gave her permission to show those clips rather were.

Ah, it's our own harshest critics. I thought I read somewhere where they asked her, are there any bad films that we could show from when you were really young? If from the first five years they're all bad or something like that, which is probably not the type of remark that you would have gotten from Joan Crawford. True. True, But I don't think if like Davis didn't think much of those early Warner Brother films she started with them Watt in thirty one or something thirty one, thirty two, But I don't think she really hit her stride there till thirty five six, certainly because I believe, I know thirty six was petrified for us.

It might also thirty six or thirty seven thirty eight was when Jezebel came out as well, and Jezebel I think is what really propelled her. I remember watching that in a different film class. Our professor showed us that one too. It took me years and years to see All About Eve, and when I finally saw it, I was like, I don't see what the big deal is about, but I need to revisit that one. Yeah, I love All About Eve.

I love that film. I just love what Mankowitz did in that very short time period late forties, early fifties, and All About Eve is in the middle of all that. I still have a lot of memories of seeing Betty Davis on talk shows like Johnny Carson and MERV Griffin, and she would often rehash the story of her feud with Joan Crawford, who by that time was long dead, And even as a kid, I had the feeling she wasn't doing herself any favors, coming across a crabby, bitter woman talking about feuds with people who were long gone. And I'm sure, sadly that was one of the reasons the talk show host liked her as a guest, because she would bad mouth people. The last person I want to ask you about is the lady with whom, in many minds you are forever linked.

That's Joan Crawford. I know. It's an incredible way, forever linked. We made one film. It's funny that remained well.

It was a good movie. It was a good movie. As far as making the film with her, she was on time, she knew her lines. She's basically was a pro. But we're very different.

Kind of women, very different kind of actresses. Yes, but afterwards. Saw to it. I didn't get the Oscar for Baby Jane. She went to all the New York nominees and said, if you can't get out there, I'll except your award and please do not vote for her.

She was so jealous. She was a fool idea, we had great percentage. If I had won that Oscar would have made a million more dollars on the film. That would always happened. So she wasn't very smart about what she did.

You hurt by the memory of the. I was furious because that would have made me the first person with three and as you know, I always have to be first as an eeries. Yes, and I should have had it all very modest of me. I should have had it for that year, no question. The exception is I take care of that you can see on YouTube he does as he did with so many great stars.

A long interview was heard, and he's very good at keeping her off that track or maybe just a little bit of it to spice things up. By Quite often you just see her come on, and especially as someone who hadn't seen her other movies, I just wondered, why what's going on here, especially her poststroke period where she just seemed bad physical shape as well as bad tempered. Yeah, when it comes to Joan Crawford, other than Mildred Pierce, I don't think I've seen that many early Crawford roles. And for me growing up when I did, it was the Mommy Derist era, so it was just that's all you ever heard about Joan Crawford. Or you would see Carol Burnett portraying Joan Crawford with some of the stories that were coming out.

So yeah, that was all I knew about her for the longest time. It took until I started to see things, ironically, until I saw a straight Jacket where I was like, oh, she's really good. Liked her a lot in Mildred Pears, but it was such a foreign film for me, just because it was so old and it had a different mentality to it, and I was like, yeah, okay, this is a good film. Of course, some people consider it a great film. But when I saw a straight Jacket, I said, oh, okay, now I kind of see what all the hype is about.

And that was her when she was quote unquote pastor prime. Because I do like this idea of them talking about what happens to actresses after their prime. But for me too, this movie talks a lot about the way in which we ingest movies that we and also entertainment. Just the whole idea of starting off with the whole vaudeville thing with Baby Jane, and then the medium kind of changes. By the time she gets into movies, she's made more for the vaudeville stage than for the movie set.

And then her sister is the one that kind of takes over that she becomes the big star. And then by the time they're all washed up what's happening, they're watching or people are watching them on television, and that's the only way that people are getting exposed to some of these older films is through TV. Through this tiny little screen. We get that huge stage at the beginning, we get the big screen that Bert Freed is watching, and then everything's reduced to that tiny little TV with all the commercials from dog food and stuff in the middle of it. So that was the one aspect I was spared by watching the old movies on PBS because they would run them commercial free.

So that was great for me, and I always was, from a very young age, was more aware of Betty Davis than I was of Joan Crawford, because, as I say, I guess I was just lucky. But at the moment in time I started watching these movies on Friday nights. They must have gotten a deal on the Warner Brothers library or something, because all of these films. I didn't realize it then, but now I've looked back on it. I've even looked up the old newspapers clippings of them.

All of them were Warner Brothers pictures. And of course Crawford in the thirties and forties early forties at least was an MGM star, And even as I got older and started watching all different classic movies, MGM was certainly not my favorite studio to watch. If you haven't seen much Joan Crawford, the one movie that was Another one that I needed to fill out my scorecard because I had never seen it, and I watched it about a year or so ago is The Women, directed by George Cukor, and the whole film is just women. There are no men whatsoever in the movie. It's nineteen thirty nine.

They are discussed and mentioned, but you never see. And it has Joan Crawford, Rosalind Russell, Norma Shearer, who at the time was on her last legs as the Queen of MGM, and a lot of great female sis and Crawford. Really Crawford and Shearer and probably Russell are the three main components of that. And Crawford is great in that. But yeah, I'm like you, I had just not seen.

Of course, I've seen Mildred Peers. Grand Hotel also, that's a classic that we've all seen, and she's excellent in that. I was just thinking about the Women, these scenes with Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford's somewhat mirror baby Jane in the sense that Norma Shearer is this wonderful, lovely person who's being so mistreated by Joan Crawford and then later in her career Crawford around the Mildred Pierce Era wanted to always be the nice person who's often put upon, and the audience is sympathetic towards But in both cases it's the villain us who gets the bulk of the attention and Betty Davis's case the Academy Award nomination. So playing a nice person often doesn't do you good if you're just in awards.

Nice guys finished last. The amount of Joan Crawford is very apropos when you read the book, and I know, Tim, you just finished reading the book. I think it's a great adaptation. I think that they did a really good job with that. And not only do they do a good job as far as condensing this rather sprawling story into a very tight package, but also doing the really smart thing of keeping Joan and Betty off screen for a long time.

Like we start with them as little kids, you get to see what their relation is like there, we go into the thirties and we see the screening room and bert Fred's reaction there, and then we move into we just see them on screens. We see in the screening room, and then when the neighbor comes home and walks in and her daughter's watching television. We see a Joan Crawford movie on television, I want to say, I counted yesterday. It takes at least what eighteen minutes before we finally see Joan Crawford in the Flesh, and we get to see that stark difference between her in those early films. And they did a great job with the makeup on her, because there are some shots in the movie, and I know we'll talk about feud later, there's some shots in the movie where she looks really young and looks great, and I'm saying, like in the nineteen sixty two film, she looks fantastic, but then when you see her for the first time, she's got all these bags under her eyes and just does not look very good at all.

And of course towards the end she looks terrible. But I thought that was nice that we have a little bit of a shock when we see her, But then when we see Benny Davis, that's a real shock. We wonder if Eldrich was influenced at all by the horror movies like Frankenstein and Dracula, which have the same formula. You don't show the monster, you hear about the monster, and you have various villagers telling you about the monster, but you don't actually experience the monster for some time, or like Jaws. Grg Bredaman.

I was just talking to a friend of mine's the fiftieth anniversary, of course, of Jaws, and we both loved it as we saw it when it originally came out, and he said, his son watched it and said, it's so slow. It's not forty five minutes until you know, after the initial attack, you get another attack. So I said, tell him to watch Jaws two, three, four, and five. You get get attacks every minute or so. Oh yeah, but then yet you lose the suspense.

And then I think that's one of the reasons Baby Jane still holds up, because even though we now know what we're going to experience, some people, of course will be seeing it for the first time with no knowledge of the actresses. But it has entered popular culture, particularly Betty Davis in that garish outfit and the white pancake makeup. The White Pancake Mega definitely creeped me out. It's the stuff of nightmares. It's those big curls, big nasty curls that she has in the back and the darkness around her eyes and her lips.

She looks almost like a no character, like a kabookie character. At times, she's so white with the black markings across her. Well, here's a stretch for you guys. One of the things I think when you see this movie is the Waltons, really, And the reason is the first time I ever saw The Homecoming on TV, I was watched seven I guess when it came out. And if you remember, there's a scene in The Homecoming where Elizabeth gets this gift, this doll they were raffling off or whatever it is, and she opens it up and it was a porcelain doll, so that part of her face and head were smashed in basically, and she throws it down because she's scared of it.

And it scared me as a kid. So when I'm watching Baby Jane and you see those big porcelain dolls that are supposed to be Baby Jane, that's like the only thing I think of. And then the makeup on Betty Davis, it's like for me, porcelain, certain types of porcelain dolls and clowns which are the type of makeup that Betty Davis were are inherently creepy of them. So you put those two things together in this movie, and then that kind of works to creep me out as well. Those two elements of it.

Well, again we're jumping ahead about feud. But in that show, Betty Davis comes up with the formulas that were to put the white pancake makeup on. And I don't know if that is actually the case or not, but in the novel that's not the case. It's not really described what she looks like, so that definitely, whether it was her idea or someone else's, that really does add to the horror. I feel like I read it was her, like it really was her idea.

Yeah, they don't really have that many descriptive Pharaoh. We'll talk more about Jane than he will about Blanche. It isn't until towards the end of the book where he talks about Blanche with her gray hair, and I was like, oh, I never really pictured her having gray hair. When he talks about Jane, he talks mostly about how alcohol has ravens her body, how puffy she is, how bloated she is, that she's just overweight and looks ridiculous in some of these clothes that she wears. She just seems like what Bebby Davis is bringing to this.

The dowdiness can only take you so far. The makeup really pushes us into that horror territory. Still dressing up like baby Jane, because that's another aspect of horror as child stars who don't make it, as opposed to like the Jodie Foster types who have a great career above and beyond being children actors that we know so many the depressing and sometimes horrifying stories about those who don't, and also taps into that in a very visceral way. She's basically clinging to the only six us she had. I hate to put it this way, but I think we probably have all known people who's who you meet them as adults.

They could be in their fifties or sixties, and they still talk about high school and their glory days of high. School, boring stories of glory days. But it's sad because the impression it leaves is that was the best they ever did, That was the best time of their life, and that's it's sad empathetic, and that, of course is what Jane is. Give Betty Davis credit. She's playing this monster but she's playing a monster who you also feel sympathy.

For, like Boris Karloff and Frankenstein. What's the little girl in the Bad Seat all grown up? Because Jane is not a pleasant person when you get to see how she is de manding ice cream and I love that it's ice cream at the beginning, it's ice cream at the end. This whole like, no, I want ice cream, and the things in the book where it's all the people who are and I think it's in the movie too, where they're whispering just like, oh, I didn't know that she was like that. Ohthough, what a terrible child she is.

And it was before social media, so she just kept on being what she was. But then her sister starts to eclipse her. And there's a whole thing in the book and it might come in here where it's like in part of Blanche's contract is that Jane has to have a role in every movie that Blanche is in. And I think that's a nice thing, but at the same time, I'm like, is she just lording it over Jane now that she's the big star and Jane is just the hanger on? Because it really flipped the tables and to flip the tables when you're like twelve years old.

That's got to be really damaging to your psyche. Well, it could be reminiscent of John Ford, how his brother Francis was the star in Silent Film, and then Francis hired john Ford for some of his silent pictures and really put his brother, his younger brother, the ringer. And then, of course for years after that, when john Ford became the number one director in Hollywood, Francis would almost always have a role, but it would always be a minor role. Usually was nothing to really sink your teeth, nothing that was going to get him any kind of award nominations, to be sure. So the question is was he helping his brother out or was he lording it over him because he could at that point in time.

So it certainly is a reasonable question to ask. Maybe that could be a new Ryan Murphy feud the Ford brothers. Getting back to the clause where Jane has to appear in Blanche's movies. In the film, I think the implication seems to be she's just trying to help her sister. But having just read the novel, it's very explicit that Blanche says, no, I did that because I knew how terrible she was and that she would look bad and people would say that.

So you get the twist at the end that Blanche really was the manipulator getting revenge, is an evil person, Whereas having rewatched the movie, I don't know, perhaps because Joan Crawford didn't want to go that far, or just some of it was internal to Blanche in the books. Unless it's expressed, we wouldn't know that. But I thought that did add yet another macabre twist. Blanche is getting her revenge on this sister who had treated her so badly when they were both children. I wish they had gone farther.

I wish they had done that because I think, knowing that she's a manipulator who has been suffering because of what she set up, that she basically she's doctor Frankenstein and she made the monster. The monster was already there, but she just added more fuel to the fire as far as oh, yeah, I'm going to get you these roles and help out my sister, and of course we're one big, happy family, We're going to stick together. But yeah, just look at her. Look at how funny this is. Look at how awful my sister is, and look at how great of a star I am.

I'm the one that's going to win the awards. Remember in that earlier scene that you mentioned, Mike, where people are murmuring outside the stage door. One of the murmurs, some lady says, I always say, you have to blame the parents, And they don't go into a lot of it with the parents. But obviously baby Jane was her father's favorite, and the mother just seems ineffectual and kind of lays back and let's whatever psychological abuse happened. So that's another aspect that you're saying.

They didn't really go fully into that. I don't know if they go more in the novel, but they certainly didn't do it in the film. There are moments in the novel where she talks about, oh, I would like to go live at the beach, and the best times I ever had were hanging out with Daddy at the beach, And we don't really get that here. Of course, the return to the beach at the end, But for me, it's when our boy Victor Blono as Edwin Flagg, is looking through all of that sheet music and every single freaking song has Daddy in the title, and I'm just like, who wrote this sheet music? Was this Electra herself?

What's happening here? It was? That's when it comes up, and I'm just like, oh man, this is creepy. How much she loved her daddy. It just and the way too that Betty's Davis says daddie, just that emphasis on the syllables.

Really just every time she doesn't, it just hits me. There's not many scenes in any movie creepier than when she's singing the song with Buono accompanying her. Off keep catterwalling o doo and I both agreed at the end when I know it's spoiler alert, but I guess you tell everybody we presume you've seen this. When Jane is dancing on the beach, it would have been even better if she started singing the song. And let's give Victor his props for really, like I said at the beginning, this time around, I really saw the campinginess of the film, but maybe not intentional campinginess.

Whereas Victor Buono, he inject's humor into this and it's obviously on purpose what he does, just his looks and stuff like that, which I think is a nice break from some of the tension, although maybe if you're watching it the first time, you don't even exactly know how to respond to his responses to it. But he's got his own parental issues and hang ups with his mother or his secretary as he tries to pass her off. But there's parts of it where he's just very funny, just by what he's doing with his face, because he walks into that house and once he stims that, once he sits down at the piano, and that look he gives when he's looking at all of the sheet music, he's already thinking like, oh, dear god, dude, I need the money.

This bad What have I gotten myself in for? I kind of like the fact that he was the one that was able to purposely bring some humor to it without changing the meaning in any way. See adds to the viewer's appreciation because as he's going through those books, we don't see most of the pictures, but from his expression we get a good sense of just how grotesque all of this is. And yet we also know, as you say, he wants the gig, he's desperate for money, and he senses that that's a big, expensive house. There must be money here.

So it's just when he's like encouraging Jane in her delusions, it's both amusing but also very pathetic at the same time. Yeah, he's a phony, a sister, whatever your con man as well, whatever you want to say. They're talking about the money, and she's saying, I don't know if I can get it that quickly, and you see him pulling back and losing interest. And then when she says I can have five hundred or whatever it is for you by tomorrow, then immediately he gets all enthusiastic again and says, Oh, great, we're gonna we're gonna have You're gonna be out there again. It'll be a whole new career.

All this bs. He reminds me a little bit of ignacious Jay Riley when it comes to he doesn't want to work. He hates everything around him, nothing is good enough for him. He thinks he's better than everybody else that comes through. I think a little bit more in the book than in the movie.

But this whole thing of Yeah, the weird relationship he has with his mother, he seems to just despise her, doesn't even want her to talk or anything. He's just like, oh, it's like nails on a chalkboard every single time this woman opens her mouth. But yeah, using her to be his secretary, and yeah, trying to get this money. He chiseled this money out of Jane. I'm like, all right, because he doesn't want to work and he knows that his mother is not bringing in any income, and he really actually wants to eat.

He likes his food. Definitely. Yeah, I thought that he played that very well. And yeah, he says close to I think first it's Elvira, the maid who's there, our surrogate. As far as experiencing these two from an outside point of view, maybe even the neighbor, Missus Bates.

I think it switches from Bates to Elvira to once Alvira's out of the picture, to Edwin, and that's when we really get to experience, Like he gets to go in the house, and so does Elvira, of course, but Missus Bates is always on the outside, so she doesn't get most of the picture. She just occasionally will see Jane or see something in the window up above. In those barred windows. The bars look really ominous on that house. The bars around the window, But there's clearly no glass, so Blanche could have yelled out to missus Bates for help more than once.

She definitely he doesn't do it. Yeah, in the novel, if I recall correctly, by the time, it's much later in the novel that she throws the note, and by that time she's really been starved and hasn't had water, so she actually tries to screen but can't. And that makes more sense. That's a lost opportunity, because, yeah, I understand for dramatic purposes tossing the note out and then having Blanche find it. In the novel, Missus Bates puts it in her pocket and doesn't open it because there's some distraction.

Also, by the way, Mike, you just made that, I think a very fascinating point as we celebrate Victor Bono. What a lost opportunity that he didn't star in a film version of a Confederacy of Dunces. I think he would have been great. Right, I agree one hundred percent. They've been trying to make a film of it for decades now, and for various reasons it's never happened.

But who would have been better in such a role. He left us too soon? He did well, maybe Ai, we can make one with the now it's not too late. No talk about horror. So much of the book is with Blanche in her room and her thoughts.

It reminds me a little bit of Gerald's game, the Stephen King Book. And sometimes she's even tied up just her there and the whole thing with the food terrorism and just that she gets so petrified by the dead bird. And I like that because I think it's just a dead bird from the garden. I don't think it's her bird. I think that adding it as her bird really brings that home.

I don't even think the rats in there. I think she just does the novel. Yeah. I think they just do two things right. One is the bird and then the other one is sand in the.

Football sand on Blanch's food, Yeah, which is. Me because it also ties into the beach. But she gets so petrof by that she really starts to starve herself. Doesn't want to take that close off or the white cloth that they put over the food in the book, and we just yeah, we spend a lot of time in her room with her, and then at one point she just drops out of the narrative for a while. To the point where I was wondering if she was dead.

Like when they're trying to get that door open with her inside, I was like, is she dead in there? I don't know what's happening right now. I thought that they handled that very well, both in the book and in the movie, that she's just tied up. But again to your point, Otto like the elvirus, I don't hear any noise. She's a Dina in the book, She's like, I don't hear any noise behind the door, And I'm like, did she knock her out or what?

Because if you're tied up, you can still at least go make some noise. Twist that bar around, makes something rattle. I don't know. Isn't Elvira nervous? In the movie that she's given her drugs and knocked herud out with her prescription drugs and Alvira, God bless her.

She carries the torch of that great tradition of underestimating just how nuts the person is you're dealing with. Why would she When Tim and I were watching it, I'm like, oh, come on, don't put the hammer down. Hold on to that hammer for crying out loud. Well, the cops. Let the cops handle it.

And it's interesting because I am listening to the book and in that the Adina does not sound like she's black. The actress that is portraying her sounds more Southern. So I was glad to see that there was an African American actress cast in this role. She's got some agency. But then, yeah, she gets killed.

I'm like, okay, and kind of that old horror trope, first one killed is the black woman. One of the articles I read was speculating that maybe that was done purposely because of the enslavement is you and turning it around and having this black woman as being the only one who could maybe save her for a certain period of time obviously until she was killed. But I had never even thought of that. I never even put that together, but it's an interesting thought. I can't remember what article was I read that in, But you're right, you don't want to be a black character, especially in those days, in this kind of film, no good will come of it.

This might be the only one of these quote unquote exploitation films that I've ever watched. I went through the long list of some of the other ones I want to see lady in a cage sounds interesting, and yeah, is it with Betty Davis playing twin roles? Dead Ringer? Now, because I've heard of Dead Ringer, but I had never seen it, so I definitely want to see. I have to admit my ignorance.

I had never heard the term exploitation, but I read a whole article on it. It makes a lot of sense. You can't disagree with any of the claims in all those roles that came after this one, and certainly it probably gave not only Betty Davis and Joan Crawford, but it certainly gave a great later career to Shelley Winters, because she was in a few of. Them when she was younger too. That raises another interesting point, as the connection between this movie and Sunset Boulevard, which is sometimes considered, if not the first, one of the first ha exploitation, because again, you have very excellent actress from the past who was what fifty years old, Gloria Swanson, and yet portrayed in a ghoulish sort of way in a decaying mansion surrounded by creepy people, and the William Holden character is not unlike the Victor Bono character someone just wants to make a buck and initially at least willing to take advantage of this strange person, and then comes back to bite them both.

And then in a way, it's almost like a mash up between Psycho and Sunset Boulevard, strange people in a strange house, and yet again, very distinguished actresses Academy Award winners after they made these movies. I think, for the most part, Crawford and Davis, these were the sort of roles that they had that they didn't seem to be offered other roles. And as you say, they set the groundwork for Debbie Reynolds and Shelley Winters and a bunch of other actresses of a similar era to play these roles. But it's both good and bad. Obviously they were employed.

I think Davis and Crawford both made good amount of money from Baby Jane, but I don't think it was their life's dream that this would be the kind of roles they would have have for the rest of their careers. Even after the first time I saw this, I don't remember exactly what I thought the first time, but over the years I neglected to put this film in the heading of one of my favorite type of films, and that is movies about Hollywood, stories about Hollywood, and it really is that. We think of it more as like this horror film, but it's really is a movie about Hollywood and what Hollywood does do now. In Sunset Bullvard, of course the delusions, the self delusions, and the way people are treated by the system, all that it bleeds.

It's not only the old people in that movie that are the victim, but of course it bleeds into the younger group, primarily through William Holden and destroys him as well, Whereas in this particular film, Baby Jane, it's just destroying the two of them. But it's still the same theme about how basically Hollywood just choose you up and spit you out. Once you're no longer of service to them, they have no need for you, and you get tossed aside. Like Tim said, Gloria Swanson was maybe fifty in Sunset Boulevard, and of course we know Betty Davis was about fifty four, I think when she made this movie. I don't think anyone knows what Chune Crawford's age was.

That's a secret. No one will ever find out don't make sure of that, but comparable of it exactly. She couldn't have been more than three, four or five years older at the most, so she was still probably in her fifties as well, and they were just of no use anymore once they reached that point. And now, at least I think probably because of the money and the fact that actors now as soon as they make some good money, if they're lucky enough to make some good money, they start their own production companies and they invest. The smart ones have learned from the lessons of the past, so they take a little more control of their careers and have a little more power.

But back in those days it just wasn't possible. That's true. But on the other hand, a lot of this still continue to think of Demi Moore and The Substance, which was a horror movie about a once beautiful actress and now doing everything she can try to get her career back, and it's incredibly more grotesque and anything we saw in Baby Jane, And that was supposedly going to get her finally an Academy award, and then it turns out, in fact Mikey Madison getting it. Some said maybe it's like all about Eve or the whole idea. It's the young actresses.

They're still going to get the awards, and you reach a certain age unless you're Meryl Street and a few even Susan Sarandon, perhaps you're not going to get the kind of roles you once had, and so you have to take on these extreme sort of roles. I want to go back to what you guys were saying. As far as Psycho and Sunset Boulevard, the houses in those movies are always fascinating to me. The mausoleum that Norman Desmond lives in, the idea of the tall staircase that Arba Gas goes up and finds the shape of the body of the wife. I think that's actually the sister finds the shape in the bed where Norman's mother was.

This whole idea of keeping these things up in the attic, the flowers in the attic kind of thing. Keep mom up in the attic and then towards the end bring her down and throw her in the cellar. But this whole thing of keeping her up there, keeping Blanche away from everybody, it's a nice thing where it's just like this thing that's up there it's in the consciousness. I always talk about how houses are like the subconscious, the conscious and the aid type of thing. But it's up there, it's still hanging out, and you'll never forget it, and especially you won't forget it with that damn buzzer going off all the time.

I don't know if they could have found a more annoying buzzer and Blanche. I would probably have some problems with Blanche as well for doing that. I don't know if I would serve her rat or anything, but I would definitely say, hey, just one time, you don't have to keep buzzing that. I'd serve her a dead bird at least for that no In fact, of course that's not in the novel either, which he shows how movies can add because just that annoying noise, Are you right, every time you hear that buzzer, you're more sympathetic to Jane. It's like.

She wasn't already a little out there. That would definitely drive you over the edge. Since you guys are one up on me by having read the novel. Is Joan Crawford's characters wheelchair Ballet, where she just goes around in a cyclone like circle. Is that in the novel?

No, but I love that. I love that when she just keeps spinning, spinning, like I have no idea what, I'm so confused. Yeah, that's great. That's when I couldn't take it seriously anymore. I'm sure someone has probably done this, but we both said they should put yakety sacks to get the music there bad Benny Hill episode.

The other thing about the house as opposed to Sunset Boulevard and Psycho. In those two cases, the house is isolated and just away from everyone, whereas here, I think both the novel and certainly in the movie, you got neighbors that are so close that it's like a suburban area. It's described in the novel as a nice house, but not a big mansion or anything. So it's almost like a combination. You've got the creepy house, but right it looks like a pretty nice neighborhood.

And everything in that house seems like it's great, Like the wallpaper. Everything just seems so dingy to me, and it's very appropriate. I don't know how Alvira would feel with me saying that, but the house is not bright inside. The house is so shadowy and with all those lamps and just the brick of brac going around. I'm surprised there's not stuffed birds every place.

It'd be Fairdell virus only came once a week, that's True's got to cut her a little slack. Also, the movie takes place in nineteen sixty two. It takes place yesterday, thank you very much. Oh okay. And the automobile accident was it thirty five nineteen thirty five?

I think so? Yeah, So basically we're talking twenty seven years that we can assume neither of them have worked. Yeah, they're living off blanches royalties or the money she had made and was invested. Because it becomes clear that's dwindling away is why she has to sell the house. And of course, which we learned pretty early on, Jane is listening and knows about that and doesn't want the house.

Sold, right, And at some point we can also assume it was a steady stream of money going to the liquor stores on a regular basis. That whole thing with Jane's superpower. I think she can imitate Blanche's voice a little bit, but I love that whole thing where it's just Joan Crawford's voice coming out of Betty Davis. Yeah, that was a little creepy, I thought too. So it reminds me of Beetlejuice doing Renona Ryder's character's voice and Beetlejuice.

Maybe I should answer for it. Okay, I'm Lydia Dietson. I'm of sound mind. The man next to me is the one I want. You asked me.

I'm answering. Yes, I love that man of mine. It's amazing to think that Victor's only twenty six in this movie. It's astonishing he. Had only been doing Now.

I know he probably had roles on stage and things, but he had only been acting in TV for three years at this point. This is, as we mentioned, his introductory role special call out in the credits. And these days sometimes they'll say, oh, in introducing and it's like, how many times have they introduced this character? But this is real. This is his introduction to the world of movies, and yeah, he just kills it.

I think he's great, and I think some of those great little touches that he has with his mom, like when he's grabbing his face and he's just so frustrated and style. I love it. And you sort of see some of those Buono mannerisms that you will then recognize so well later on in the later things that we may have like I don't know about you, Mike, but for Tim and I would imagine the first time we saw Victor Buono was either Batman or the Odd Couple one or the. Other Wild Wild West, Oh wow, the count in that Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

For me, it was definitely King Tut. He was my favorite villain. And actually, in addition to being a horror fan, I was a big comic book reader. So I read The Batman before it was cool or obviously before it became such a huge industry, and I knew that the main villains, like the Joker and the Riddler and the Penguin, they were all in the stories, but there was no King Tut. That was a very different kind of take on a villain.

And the other thing I liked was a kind of Jeckel and Hyde variation that he'd beat this awful villain, then he get hit in the head, and he was this kindly professor of Egyptology saying, Batman, what's going on? And since I teach ethics, it's always been an interesting question if someone really doesn't know, oh that they committed a crime, can they be held responsible? So that always made me interested in Bono. Anyway, I had actually forgot about that Jackyl Hyde aspect of King Tot's character. Now that you say it, I remember, but I had forgotten that, and it brings an interesting parallel with Bruce Wayne, although Bruce Wayne knows that he's Bruce Wayne, but being someone other than the guy behind the mask is interesting.

And of course, please let us give a shout out to the great Otto Premiger is mister Freeze. I always loved Otto Premiger as mister Freese. That was where I knew Auto Premacher from before I knew he was a director. Yes, I remember seeing Stalac seventeen and it was so bizarre to see him as his commandant, having known him as mister Freeze. I think George Sanders was Freeze.

It was one what are the mister Freeze getting back to all about Eve? George stand just like there was at least two Riddlers, because in addition to Gorshen, there was John Aston Yeah right, yeah, so yeah, some of them had multiple. Victor Bono was definitely a man of his time because from sixty two until around the time of his death. He seemed to have been constantly employed, not so much in movies. We'll obviously be looking at some of the other film roles he had, but if you go to imdbd it's hard to see a TV show from the period that he wasn't dead.

Yeah, he was like ever present when I was growing up, because you look at all those seventies TV shows and he's just every place. And that was my era of watching TV when I was a kid. Oh yeah, he was always there. And seeing him in movies was an oddity for me because I didn't watch a lot of the films that he was in. It was mostly television.

One of my favorite of his roles on television in the I don't know if it was late seventies or early eighties because the show stretched across was as Jim Ignatowski's father in Taxi, which was just a fabulous episode and was just so well written. In all those episodes of that show are well written. But I loved him as Ignatowski's father. He was just great. You are not without charm, my son.

Thanks all right, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'm willing to try if you are if you want to be my son, feel what it's like to be a rich man and come home and roll in school. I'll see that you get the best education and the best shave that money can buy. And whur. That gets back to Mike's point about Bono's age.

You see him as Christopher Lloyd's father and you believe it. It's very credible, and yet I think they were roughly the same age. It is remarkable to see how he ages. Yeah, because this is, like I said, twenty six years old, I think. And he died when he was forty three.

It's wild because you look at him here and you look at him, just what would that be twenty six forty three? Is that sixteen years later when he dies? Yeah? He Victor Buono was eight months older than Christopher Lloyd. Wow.

But you see him and he goes from this stage to the grayer hair. He starts to lose his hair pretty early on. He keeps those beautiful blue eyes through all of this, but otherwise it just he starts to change all around the facial features. Yeah, it's remarkable to see what a difference it is. Yeah, that's incredible.

Eight months difference and he was playing. I wonder if that's the all. Time now, if it was a woman, she could be like ten years younger and then play his mother. Right. What was the movie with Sally Field and Tom Hanks where he was a comedian and she plays his mother and they hit punchline.

That's but when you're saying that, I'm also thinking of Forrest Gump. That's true too. Yeah, but it just shows how the inequality as were male and female casting. I think my favorite Victor Bono appearance on TV was in The Odd Couple where he played the Exorcist. But that was the sort of thing he could just appear for a few minutes and just domin.

But it was like enough too. I think one of the problems. I know it's often been said of paul In and other such people that they could never really carry a series because too much of them was too much. They were like a spice, a little addition, And that's in this movie. It's just the right time when you caught with these two rather unpleasant sisters.

Then suddenly it shifts and now you get this other character, and initially wondering how is he going to interact, what's his role going to be and when he comes to the house, it adds so much, but that he disappears for some time. And of course he was nominated for an Academy Award for us Supporting Actor, which is pretty amazing for his. First role first time out. Yeah, I'm so surprised that Crawford didn't get nominated for Best Supporting Actress. That.

Of course, that's obviously a big part of Feud, the TV show. I suppose it's again because she deliberately she chose that part. Apparently she was the one who told Aldretz that she wanted to play Blanche and suggested Betty Davis for the role of Jane. And I would presume she thought this is the better role because it's more sympathetic. But it turned out she didn't do herself any good in that regard.

Crawford was unwilling to let herself be seen in such an unflattering light as Davis was, and then, as we said earlier, Betty just added to the grotesquerie as it were, and went way over the top and just chewed the scenery. But it obviously worked because Blanche really pales in comparison when you see the film. She's almost like an afterthought, but she doesn't pop out of the screen the way Davis very obviously does and purposely does. Maybe the whole legend of Crawford Now it is true. Apparently it's verifiably true that she did go around to the other dominees and say, if you're not going to be there, I'll be happy to accept the award for you on Oscar Night if you win.

What we don't know for certain is what Davis always maintained, and that was that Crawford also influenced voters to not vote for Davis, so that one will never really know the truth, although Betty certainly believed. Obviously we don't know one way or the other. Does seem that to be nominated for such a role as one thing like Anne Bancroft won for the Miracle Worker, and that seemed more likely to get legitimate votes as it were, he didn't need a campaign to say don't vote for Betty Davis. Frankly, it seems to me it was very clever on Joan Crawford's part, because we know she wasn't happy she didn't get nominated, and so for her to pick up the award it was a win win because if Betty Davis had won, she had a percentage of the profits.

It's hard to believe that someone who supposedly had the business savvy of Crawford would have said, the hell with that. I want her to lose, so I'm going to lose millions of dollars because of it. Davis says exactly that. She says it was foolish on Joan's part because had I won, it would have meant more money for both of us, because the films always get a bump when someone wins the Academy Award. I can't remember which interview who she was being interviewed by, but she basically says that it was a miscalculation on Crawford's part to campaign against me, because had I won, the film would have done better and we would have made even more money.

As you say, we don't know that Crawford actually did campaign against her. It could be just sour grapes and Betty Davis's part. There's always endless debates so who should have won Academy Awards versus who did win them? But although I love the performance and it's a camp classic, we just seem a little odd if that was the Best Actress Award as opposed to the others who were in the running that year. So speaking of that, let's go ahead and take a break and we'll be back with an interview with Dominic who played Victor Borono in the series Feud, and we'll be back with that right after these brief messages.

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Bring Home Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning on digital now, Tom Cruise. This is Ethan Hunt in this action pack thrill ride that critics are calling the biggest and wildest mission yet. Go inside the incredible stunts and with over fifteen minutes of jaw dropping extras when you buy a digital available at participating retailers ringing PG thirteen from Paramount Pictures. Before we even start to talk about feud, I want to know a little bit more about your background. Can you tell me how you got involved in acting.

A long time ago? Now let me get back to the nineties. I didn't really have any interest in acting until probably midway through high school. I joined the drama club at high school just as an extracurricular activity. In the first year that I did it, we did cabaret and I was just ensemble, but it was a fun time.

It was fun, it was silly. And then the following year, I think I would have been maybe fourteen fifteen, my English teacher, Missus Godridge, said that the school play was going to be Death of a Salesman and I didn't know the play. I wasn't really up on plays and shows at that point in time, but she said audition, and I auditioned and I got the role of Biff, and then that opened my eyes and I fell in love with acting and everything therein very swiftly. I was always a fan growing up as a kid. I loved films.

I loved TV. I would race home from school to catch Starter at the Next Generation, and I was a fan of X Files and Buffy and Twin Peaks and all these shows, and so I loved film, but I never really put much stock into oh, that's something that I could do as a career. That felt like a world away. I think for a while I was hoping to be a veterinarian, something along those lines. So I did that school play Death of a Salesman, and that was it.

Then I was in. I got the bug, and that's then all that I wanted to do. And from there it was a slippy slope. Instead of going into veterinary sciences, I decided to audition for drama schools in London just to see what might happen, and then I got offered a place at a drama school called the Academy of Live and Recorded Arts. I got offered a scholarship, a Dance and Drama Award scholarship, and that was it.

That was my choice. That was I took away the choice because that was then like, oh, oh okay, they believe in me and I could do it, and they'll pay the tuition and that was it. Then we were off to the races us. With dance and drama. Did you have to do much dancing?

Oh, they didn't try too hard. I went to a place called the Academy of Live and Recorded Arts, and one of the reasons that I chose that drama school. It closed unfortunately during COVID, so it doesn't exist anymore. But at the time it was one of the only drama schools that really had a focus on classical training and training for television and film and radio and voiceover. In my heart at that time, I really knew that television and film was the direction that I wanted to focus in.

Dance wise, there was a little bit of tap involved, and we did have denise for jazz and movement and aerobics, and Hannela Aufmann was a movement teacher, so there was some dancing components, and then as you went further down the school, you could sort of diversify into areas that you wanted to go in. So if you were particularly good at stage fright, then you could go down the BADC route and learn extra weapons I guess other than foil and dagger, and then people would be fighting with long swords and staffs, and then people could go into extra dance lessons and then there was a singing group, so you could diversify within that. But dance as a six five, three hundred pound men was not for me. Why, I suppose movement is very important, especially you've done a lot of roles where you're behind a lot of makeup, so you have to really work on that body as your instrument.

Yes, movement, absolutely, so a lot of that was a law. Aufman did a lot of movement, and our improv teacher, John Mowatt also did a lot of physicality. Improvit at my drama school stemmed from something called Comedia delat, which is a lot of mask work from Italy, and so through that we did a whole lot of movement. But Mike, what's funny is I don't know if it's funny, but I'll tell you the story anyway, at drama school and plays that I did in high school, because I'm a big guy. I'm six four six' five and three hundred, pounds and SO i would find myself being cast in whatever place that we were.

Doing each, TERM i would be your doctorship again and three sisters AND i would find myself being the grandfather or the, father or playing someone so much older than my, age or playing someone that had a distinctive voice or distinctive. Mannerisms and throughout my whole time at drama school in three, YEARS i THINK i only ever played my own age. Once and so going through that and doing, THAT i did do a lot of vocal and physical. Training and whenever we did the public, PRODUCTIONS i would go to the movement teacher AND i would go To John mowett and the voice, Teacher John, wilde And i'd, SAY i got to play a seventy five year. Old let's talk about, Physicality let's talk about.

This and then WHEN i left drama, school it was a real deconstruction on auditioning BECAUSE i didn't know how to play my own age WHEN i left drama, school And i'd be going to these auditions and when you auditioned for television and, films just be, Yourself just be, yourself it's, You AND i didn't know how to do. That i'd be going to auditions being like and as a twenty one year old, walk how does he move? From Like i'm twenty. One so it was a real deconstruction, then AND i still think in some ways it really helps me out having that, training because, then like you, say working on something Like The magicians Or Star trek Or Star, wars anything that's in, Prosthetics Big car To Victor, bono it really helps you out to embody.

That BUT i still sometimes struggle just playing a regular everyday person Because i've always my natural instinct is to, say, oh how does this person? Talk where are his intonations and his? Speech does his voice come from his, chest from his, belly from his, neck from his, Head and SO i think SOMETIMES i might overcomplicate things instead of just being, like, Well i'm just going to talk like a human. Being DID i read write that you got your first role like the day you graduated from? COLLEGE i.

DID i auditioned For Batman. BEGINS i think it Was Lucinda sison's office AND i went in WITH i Think Elaine granger was the casting. Associate and that was the day THAT i graduated from The academy Of live And Recorded. ART i raced into Central london that morning and auditioned for, that AND i auditioned for the role of An Arkham Asylum. Escape the audition was intimidating a kid in the narrows with a.

KNIFE i didn't take an act to the. Audition i'm very. Professional AND i got that role AND i was, like oh my, god this is. Wow and THEN i In. ENGLAND i guess it's still the dune.

Thing they pick you up from your residents and then they drove us forty five minutes and they were filming in these two huge airport hangars that used to have. Blimps AND i got, there went through hair and, makeup went through, wardrobe and then the hair and makeup and wardrobe team bless, them were, like, well, wait you're too clean cut and nice looking to be An arkham asylum. Guy let's figure something. Out and THEN i got turned into a narrows cop AND i lost off my line and they were still one what a wonderful. Environment and THEN i was cut from the final, film but my name still survives the, credit SO i do get my sixty pounds a year in my.

Residuals so thank you very much About. Mumborghinn's but it was a wonderful experience to be on set on a major motion. Picture that's my first, experience and then my next job Was Doctor, who which was another you, KNOW i was raised As sylvester McCoy and an eighth as my doctor and, Companion so that was also very exciting to be involved in that and land into that genre world right away out of the, gate which is WHAT i. Loved and, yeah two wonderful jobs right out of the, gate. Rushing home and Watching Star trek Next.

Generation how was it to work On Star trek? Itself, Honestly, mike that is still one of my career. Highlights as soon as they announced That Patrick stewart was coming back and hard was a go. OH i picked up my phone to my reps right. AWAY i called my, Manager Camella, pines was, like they're Bringing Patrick, Stewart dakarta is coming.

Back we've got to do what we. Can and the casting director on that show Was Liz, dean AND i had been into that. Office she worked at an office at the time called U, dk who were actually casting directors On, feud so they were aware of my, work BUT i STILL i wrote a little handwritten note at The Liz deine AND i went down there AND i said to, You, LIZ i used to race home from school every night to Watch Star Trek Next generation and bless she brought me. In she let me come in and read for Mister. Vupp and the night BEFORE i went, IN i was having a bit of an existential crisis because it was so top.

Secret everything was so clandestine and shut, down and there were no full scripts and ALL i was told THAT i was an, alien AND i was pacing the living room because my fiance is not A Star trek, guy and SO i was reading lines with him AND i was, saying it's very. Different it's going to be very. Different If i'm A, klingon then If i'm A, cardassian then If i'm A, ferangi then If i'm as a bunch of different, species BECAUSE i didn't know WHAT i was supposed to be WHEN i got in the. Room and THEN i went for the. AUDITION i went in the room And liz was just, like you're like a big.

Lizard you can smell, lies and you're just like an immovable. Object you're like a. Rock and we did, it AND i had a lot of stuff that wasn't in the final. Script it was a lot of technobabble that was in the audition, material and oh, BOY i kept tripping over all those lines and it was way more than was ever in the final, script and Bless. Liz we did it maybe three or four, times AND i kept.

Stumbling at the same. Point she was, like, hey do you want to take five? Minutes AND i was, like, NO. I, Promise i'm. Prepared i've worked on this so much as All i've ever.

Wanted and then she wrote the line that was my stumbling, block and she wrote it on a piece of card and she held it above the camera so THAT i could get that line. Out AND i left that audition AND i called my manager AND i, said oh, NO i was one of the worst Auditions i've ever done in my. LIFE i kept stumbling over this line And liz had to write the line down on this piece of card and she's never going to call us in ever. Again and then we got. It and that's the way it.

Goes sometimes we shit the bed and THEN i guess what we feel isn't necessarily what comes across on, camera AND i just. HAD i had the most divine experience on. There everyone was so. Wonderful Jonathan frakes was the director who was so warm and so. Friendly he ran such a great.

Set Patrick stewart was incredible in between. Setups sometimes you work on shows and in between setups the series regulars or the other actors will disperse and go to their trailers and they don't want to. Talk and here everyone just sat down and was talking And patrick, wouldson where are you? From and they're, like, oh From Stow. Contrent they'd be, like, AH i worked at The Stoke Contrent Repertory theater back in nineteen seventy.

EIGHT i was just a, magical wonderful and for everything THAT i would hope That Star trek would, Be Star trek. Was it was a. Dream how was it being under all that? Makeup you know? WHAT i quite like.

It it's liberating in a. Way what was really nice about The Star trek makeup is it was so. Fast the makeup people there were From Vincent Van Dyke. Effect so basically it was a foam. Cow so it was just one piece that would go over your head and shoulders and then just one piece OF i can't remember if the face piece Was latex or, phone but just one piece that would go on the face and then it was just a full.

Suit the hands were, gloves so they just went straight on that wasn't a lot of work that needed to go on, there so, comparatively that was an hour and a half in that makeup. Chair by, comparison The magicians makeup took about five, hours and The Rebel moon and The Star wars makeup they both took five six. Hours that was a long all time in the makeup chair for Those but what was really nice is it was so easy and it was low, maintenance so in between setups you were able to just talk and chat with the other actors on those other. Shows On, MAGICIANS i had the most wonderful, time but Because i'm in the who sort of stilettos that are cut out to match the sort of shape of a goat leg and the legs are, furry and you glued in and then the, horns and the makeup was, latex and so the sweat gathers underneath that, material whereas with foam it absorbs, it but the latex sort of gathers and they would have to put you into cooling.

Tents and SO i found that the downside with working with latex prosthetics is it needs a little MORE tlc and then you don't get to talk to the other cast members as much as you would like to in between setups and be, like, oh go on, today but still wonderful. EXPERIENCES i quite enjoy. It LIKE i, said inhabiting something physically and vocally is exciting for. Me that's my sort of natural rhythm of getting into a. Character SO i think it also gets you out of your head a little bit more because there's like mass, work and so you just play and explore through physical means as well as vocal.

Means before you Played Victor, borno had you played another real person BEFORE i. Did a show Called. Roots they Redid. ROOTS i think back in two thousand and thirteen twenty, fourteen AND i played people on. STAGE i THINK i played So grobo in a production In, england and THEN i played someone In roots that was a real.

Person but historically the only frame of reference you have is a painting and handwritten, documents and so there's no vocal. Information no one could watch that and be, like hold on a, minute that wasn't what that person was really. Like when it came To, VICTOR i think this was the first time THAT i played someone real where there was a plethora of documentation about what he looked like and what he sounded, like and first hand accounts of what he was like as a human, being and he had poetry albums and so there was a lot of reference points for. Him and WHEN i went into audition for that same office that did star trek Ud, ka they DIDN'T i knew THAT i was auditioning For, victor but because the scripts had not been written to that, point the material THAT i was given were scenes From Whatever happened To Baby.

Jane but they wanted me to be Playing victor buonow but Still Edwin, Flagg and so it was this weird place of AM i Playing Victor buono or AM i playing the guy that he played In Whatever happened With Baby? Jane and casting was, like we don't know why not, both but again a wonderful experience audition. Wise the associate at that, Time Jenny, treadwell had cast me on a show Called Ant farm a few years, before and she knew that they were Casting feud and she had built a vision board with pictures of me From Ant farm and pictures Of Victor buono side by side in the same kind of, poses and she was, like you got to bring in Down. Burgess he's going to be perfect for, this and they gave me the note beforehand come dressed in the style indictive of, that SO i had to match what victim whatever happened To Baby?

Jane AND i did my hair AND i jelled it to one, side and, yeah we had fun with the. Audition we played it As Victor buono and we played it as he did In Whatever happened To Baby. JANE i think this was In, february AND i don't THINK i heard Until april THAT i had been. Cast then we didn't start filming until till Late September, october so it was a sort of a long stretch of time in between auditioning and working. Then but, yeah then fun to go down those avenues where he moved and vocally where he, lived and, yeah or another, wonderful incredible.

Experience were you familiar with him before you get the call to do the? AUDITION i if you'd have told, me, hey do you Know Victor? BUONO i would have been, like, NO i don't THINK i. Do but then going down the rabbit hole of uh, oh he Was king tut In. BATMAN i know him From.

Batman and then Whatever happened To Baby jane and be, like, oh, YEAH i remember watching that. FILM i know who he. Is he's In planet of The. APES i know who he is In planet of The, oh he's in my favorite animated film from WHEN i was a, Kid flight Of. DRAGONS i, know, Okay and actually funny speaking about Ant, farm there was a producer and writer on And, Farm Mark Jordan.

Lencoln and WHEN i got cast on that show it was A disney. Show one of the very first things that he said to me was, like you know WHY i loved your audition because it reminded me Of Victor. Buono and he kept, saying you should look At Victor, bruno you should look At Victor. Buno AND i remember looking it up at the, time, like, OH i see the. Resemblance but it wasn't UNTIL i got the audition For feud THAT i really went down the rabbit hole of investigating his body of.

Work as we've been, talking you dip in and out of Like american accents and. Stuff how was it finding the voice Of Victor? Borono was there a particular phrase or something that really got you into? That, NO i don't think. SO i listened to his poetry, ALBUMS i listened to how he talked on some talk show appearances that he talked, upon AND i wanted to make sure THAT i was honoring it without becoming slavish to an, impersonation so that then on, set if anything different is thrown at, you or you're sitting in the hair and makeup trailer and someone comes along and it's, like, hey we got a new pages for the, day that THEN i wasn't frazzled and, like, oh, OH i haven't studied this for six, hours and SO i don't know what to, do and so you find your own.

RHYTHM i find that If i'm playing someone, Real i'll examine their voice and the mannerisms to a, degree but there's still got to be room in there for me to be able to, improvise to be able to, play to be able to inhabit them on the. Fly and SO i guess it becomes a case of what do you lose and what do you gain me by sort of being so slavish to who they. Are but, YES i try and figure out where he moved, from where he's vocally, resonated and took it from. There some of my. Favorite scenes in the whole mini series were or.

SERIES i suppose it is were you And Susan sarandon in your, interactions whether it was her bailing you out of jail or that beautiful conversation that you have where you're getting to know each. Other what was that like to work with her or? He it's such a wonderful environment in terms of sorry to keep hopping. On i'd worked On farm back in twenty, twelve WHICH i think was for run of fifteen sixteen, episodes but each episode is stand. Alone there's no sort of you don't want to, say there's no character.

Development it's A disney. Show it's, light it's. Fluffy and Then FEUD i think was the first time in a long time THAT i had a job and it was, like, hey this is going to be five six. Months you're going to be inhabiting this. Character so it was nice to go on that entire journey and to Which Susan sarandon work whose WORK i was familiar with And i'm a big.

FAN i think it was a deep cup for. HER i Love Cloud. ATLETS i know it's not for, everyone but she plays like six different characters in that, film and SO i think the first TIME i MET i was, like you told me everything about cloud at let's right, now and just everyone on that. Set jessica was. Lovely it was the first time Meeting Ryan murphy and he was.

Great but the Directors Grenneth thorne Of, Peyton she was the one that directed that scene Where susan AND i are on the, couch and she was very clear about what she wanted and she come in and she, Say, okay so we're going to do an establishing shot that ring And ruther camera. Here it's going to be. INTIMATE i Think ryan had such a clear vision for what he wanted with. THAT i Think ryan in general has a very clear vision for what he wants and that whole creative. TEAM i became friends With Alfred, molina who is simply the most divine human.

Being Allison wright To Nase, popa who's one of the producers working On, feud led to so many other wonderful. Things going back to the genesis Of WHEN i arrived In Los, angeles there was a kid sitcom CALLED I carli AND i must have auditioned for that. Show just one, line, two line, three line over and over. Again must have been, thirteen fourteen times And Jenny treadwell was the casting assistant or associate in that, office AND i never, booked and then she kept me in mind when they were looking for this person on Ant farm and bought me and it was, like you should meet Dominic. Burgess and THEN i worked on Ant farm and then she moved off as again TO UdK where they were Doing.

Conuge she was, like you should Meet Dominic burgess and then you work on. Feud and from working on, feud that's HOW i Met, taylor who DID ma And Breaking news In Uba county And palmrial That i'm working on now here we are in the year of Our low twenty twenty. FIVE i can trace everything That i'm working on now all the way back to WHEN i first got TO la in two thousand and, seven through auditions that you didn't get at the. Time but it's so interesting and feud has led to so many wonderful. Things you talked about that challenge of being six foot, five three hundred.

POUNDS i imagine that was a huge challenge For Victor borono as well and not being able to take that many. RULES i love that you're able to just move through these different. Rules for, me it seems so easily because every time you are on, screen you just embody a completely different. Character there's no oh, yeah there's. Dominic sometimes you're, unrecognized, well not just with the, makeup but just with the.

Performance SOMETIMES i feel LIKE i get in my head a little bit on that IF i get an audition in for. Something SOMETIMES i do worry THAT i stand in my own way Because i'll do an audition and they're, Like, nope that's the voice THAT i used in it's always sunny In. PHILADELPHIA i got to find something. Different and Then i'll be, like oh, no that's Mid, Atlantic transatlantic kind Of victor. BOLONOISH i want to move away from that Because i've done that and people will be, like, ah it's just doing the same thing.

Again so SOMETIMES i get in my head. AGAIN i think it goes back to that training thing THAT i can do An american, accent and SOMETIMES i should just be able to do that and talk and do the, audition AND i. DON'T i get in my head a little bit About i've got something different or something physically different or vocally, different and SOMETIMES i don't THINK i, do BUT i appreciate. That i'll take that compliment BECAUSE i do love playing and. EXPLORING i love watching actors who disappear into.

ROLES i love watching actors who change physically and vocally and surprise. Me AND i enjoyed the character. WORK i really enjoyed the character. Work AND i think that when you get a script for, something it's one of the first THINGS i do is where these characters live in their? Body how do they, sit how do they, move how do they open a, door what do they do in the living, room how do they?

Relax that's a fun part of the process for. Me BUT i am away in the back of my, head, like but you've done this. BEFORE i do something different and MAYBE i book more roles IF i just let it go like that worked for me on the last. Job i'm just going to do the same thing all over. Again think it could be.

The matter day Al. Pacino it just does the same thing over and over. Again, now, yeah, hey look it works for some. Actors, YEAH i don't. KNOW i don't have the answer to.

THAT i JUST i get the audition material in AND i just go with what my gut tells. ME i used to WHEN i was a younger, actor WHEN i was first starting. OUT i would get audition material AND i. Strangle WHEN i was In, ENGLAND i worked On batman AND i worked On, dogtafho and THEN i was very lucky IF i was getting an audition every three or four months or, so and so when an audition did come, in you'd strangle at material because you'd want it so much that it'd be, like oh, GOSH i got to go at this job up to a casting, director And i've got to please the casting. Director and it just became about pleasing other people instead of getting the material and, Saying, okay, great this is a, material this is my interpretation of the.

Role hey do you want some? Apples Because i'm bringing apples to this. Production and if production's, yeah we want, Oranges i'd be, like, okay, great thank you so. Much when you want, apples come get me BECAUSE i got. Apples that's a terrible.

Analogy but THEN i can put my head on my pillow at night and get an, audition do WHAT i want to do with. It finish the, audition rip up the, material put it in the, trash and then Say i'm letting it. GO i release it into the. Universe sometimes auditions come along that take hold and you really want them for one reason or, another whether it's the role and it's oh my, GOSH i love this material so, much or it's a location where it's going to be. Filming What i'll go To tahiti for three?

Months are you kidding? Me as? Please whatever it, is there's. Different reasons behind why you would want to do, something and they're all. Valid but Now i'm much better about letting things.

Go with you being married to another, actor do you guys workshop stuff? Together because he does a lot of stunts, Too does it teach you how to take a bunch? Matter Matthew yennicky his background is in, stunts and oh, GOSH i don't want this to be a leading cause of out. Divarsh i'm. Joking we approach auditioning very.

DIFFERENTLY i will get material and Then i'll go and work on it in my own space and find physically and vocally where it, lives And i'll prepare it and then WHEN i go To matt And, fay, Okay i'm ready to. Tape it's been a loose place And i'm not so slavish on being word. Perfect i'd rather get the intention of the character and the feeling and the emotion of the, scene and that doesn't always. Work if you're auditioning for a, sitcom they tend to be more word perfect and. Specific if you're auditioning for a crime procedural that's ON, cbs they tend to be more word perfect and.

Specific if it's for a feature, film it tends to be a little. Looser if it's for a pilot where you're going to be playing that character for, yours THEN i tend to be a little looser and inhabit in a different. WAY i think Because matt's background is in, stunts he approaches it from the opposite, direction where things have to be perfect and timed because that's what some people. Do things have to be precise and timed and come at the right, moment because if they don't come at the right, moment people will take a punch to the, face and that's the shot roun. Off so it is interesting that we come at things from a different.

Way BUT i learned things from. HIM i think he learned things from. Me he took classes AT ucb And groundlings and did a lot of improv and got out of that sort of not a rigid, headspace but that sort of precise. Headspace AND i love being in. Class i'm in class all the.

Time and so IF i feel like my skill set is getting a little, balanced Then i'm, like, OH i feel a little. Rigid i'm going to jump into a class AT ucg for a. While, OOH i feel Like i've gone a little too. Loose i'm going to jump into a scene steady, class And i'm going to course. CORRECT i went way off topic there.

Again but, yes we sell. Together and it's handy now in the world of self, tapes where we're auditioning in our own living, rooms to have each other on, hand to be, like, WHAT i got this, audition it's due in twenty four, Hours i'm gonna learn. It then let's do. It and If matt is out of, town he's In vancouver right, now and then he's got a stunt job In, toronto and so while he's out of, town then they have another sort of two or three people THAT i can pick up the phone and be, like, Well i've got an. Audition let.

Go in my sort of social circle and work circles have got three or four people they call for self tapes to be like it's let's come and then there are self taping. Facilities if everything falls apart and we're, like, oh, okay it's time to go TO Ace, tapes down to go To Lucky Rabbit. Studios, yeah that's got to be such a different. World do was that all just because of the pandemic or were they doing that? Beforehand there were.

MOMENTS i think the only times THAT i did self tapes before the pandemic were IF i was out of. TOWN i THINK i was In New orleans WHEN i got the audition for The, magicians and so that was a self. Tape that's the only one THAT i can remember off the top of my head before the. Pandemic and then we went into pandemic times and then everything shifted very quickly to self. Tapes Doctor death was a self.

TAPE i think Pal mariel was a self. Tape ma was a self tape that became the norm very. Quickly and there are pros and cons to each. THING i love going into the room and meeting a casting director or seeing a casting director that you know that you love going into YOU i used to love going Into wendy O'Brien's. Office wehndy O'Brien.

Does it's always. Sung In. Philadelphia she Did legit and she was in an office at twenty two thirty Three Barry, avenue and you would go into that office and she was so, warm and she'd give you a and you would do the scene a couple of times and she would play and it was loose and you'd improv and you'd come out of that office feeling so good about yourself that you worked or that you, played that you explored with the. Scene and now with self, tapes you don't get that. Interaction you put yourself on tape and it's been a, vacuum and you send it, off and in some ways it's good because you're, Like, okay this is WHAT i want to do with the.

Character i'm putting it on tape And i'm sending it out and that's what it. IS i like self. TAPES i love being in the. Room i'm not a fan of zoom. Auditions the live zoom auditions is where it loses it for, me because with a self, tape you're in, control you have your, reader and you can do it on your own.

Schedule you can do the audition in the, morning, afternoon, night whenever you want to do it whenever works for, you which is great when it's a zoom, audition you're still in your. Home BUT i don't know if trash collection is going to. COME i know it's going to come On tuesdays And, fridays and oh, boy they're, loud and they can come anytime between seven am and twelve in the. AFTERNOON i don't know if my neighbors are going to be. Home the upstairs neighbors sound like they opened a bowling.

ALLEY i have five, cats or their colors jingle if they want to be, fed they'll let me know they want to be. Fed so the zoom auditions bring in a factor of unpredictability for. Me and then there's a technical aspect because if you're zooming with someone and the production company is In, Alberta, canada they might not have the best internet connection and you're reading with someone and there's a delay and it's a two second delay and you're not, sure and my webcam doesn't look as good as the camera THAT i use to help tape on and zoom auditions is where it loses it for. Me but in the room and self, TAPES i. Love you Mentioned Palm morell what else are you working on these?

Days we just finished season two Of palmriel and again love all those. People Christin wigger is a, Delight Alison journey is a. Delight Carol burnett is a. Delight that's A. Tv royalty right.

There just what a treat to be in that. ENVIRONMENT i just finished a show On amazon Called criminal THAT i think will be out in early twenty twenty six that's based off a series of graphic. Novels and THEN i have been doing some voice over work for a new animated, series BUT i don't Think i'm allowed to talk about that. Yet that's nbad and they haven't done a lot of. Announcement so, yeah that's been been keeping me busy this.

Month i'm working on some theater with a company Called The Blank. Theater they have something called The Young Playwrights, festivals which is where new playwrights between the age of eight and eighteen plays and then they put them on with professional actors here In Los. Angeles and it's always wonderful to do fresh new work and, see the writers of today are going to be the writers of. Tomorrow and that's a little musical that we're. Doing so we start rehearsals for that next, week Which i'm excited.

About, yeah so there's. Stuff it's slow right, now but there's stuff going. ON i try and keep. BUSY i write as, well which keeps me. Busy this week For Amazon, PRIME i bought myself a, piano So i'm gonna learn some.

Piano like we'll see how that. Goes, Wow, okay who? KNOWS i like keeping myself. Busy somebody there is a. Musician is that you or your?

Husband? Oh, NO i don't know anything about. Guitars one of them's, acoustic one of them's. Electric that's ALL i. Know but PIANOS i can get into.

Dominic thank you so much for your. Time this is so great talking with. You, likewise thank you so, Much. Mike this was a. Treat ANYTIME i get to talk, shop it's always very.

Exciting I've, RICKY i left To daddy. His addresses heaven. Above I've, ricken Did? Daddy we miss you. And wish you with us, Too, love.

And DO i get to play a real Hards did you just be your stands ready WHEN i think you're? Ready you joined your sister's. Marks thank. You you seem to FORGET i was A star when your billing was still find your child killed by. STAMPING i think she's, crazy lay she chose everybody even why.

All, right we are back and we were talking about whatever happened To Baby, jane and, yeah let's talk a little bit more About. FEUD i never watched that show. BEFORE i don't know. WHY i just didn't have any interest in checking it, out BUT i had to for this, episode AND i had a great time with. IT i was really impressed with that.

Show AND i was really impressed With Jessica. Lang holy, shit the performance that she gives As Joan, CRAWFORD i thought was one for the. Ages she really captured her so. Well Susan saranda AND i take also does a tremendous job As Betty. Davis there's even a slight Resemblance san sand in eyes as, Right.

Definitely the resemblance is. THERE i just felt like she was, good BUT i didn't feel she was. Great AND i feel like her Whole betty davisness turned on and off depending what the scene, was and towards the, end like episodes SIX ofn, EIGHT i started to hear how she said dead, dy like that type of pronunciation That Betty davis HAD i would hear that in those later, episodes BUT i really wasn't hearing it in the earlier. EPISODES i felt like she's just Being Susan sarandon through, this Whereas Jessica, LANG i felt that she was completely in the part that there. Was if there Was Jessica lang inside of, THERE i wasn't seeing.

IT i was just Seeing Joan. Crawford and that wasn't just from the. MAKEUP i was hearing it in the. VOICE i was seeing it in the. Mannerisms it just felt Very.

Joan whereas like towards the, end AND i don't doesn't make sense BECAUSE i don't think that they filmed this. Chronologically but towards the, END i felt, Like, oh Now Susan sarandon's really putting it. On she's putting on The betty davisness of. This maybe it's a persona that takes. Over he had to be.

Careful next, thing she's criticizing her child's. Acting remember, too That Jessica lang Had Faye dunaway's performance to look, at and of Course sarandon. Had there's never been a major filmed With Betty davis as a character like the Actress Betty davis as a character as far AS i, know so that was the, first so, maybe BUT i thought they were both very good in. It quite, HONESTLY i. Thought the whole thing was, great AND i was so happy to See Alfred molina.

In here Is Robert. ALDRICH i really Loved molina and him going Against Stanley. TUCCI i thought it was, wonderful especially when he Fucks Jack warner over towards the end of the series and you hear him clanging talking about his big brass, balls And i'm, like, fuck that's so. Good knocking around a. Little maybe that scene is, great especially since we know the movies At aldrich's end going to Make The Dirty dozen and all his other, yards, yeah The Longest.

Yard oh. Yeah his filmography is, amazing and, yeah he really hits a stride towards the end of his. Career it's like he made some great films afore. It but, yeah towards the end he was just knocking him out of the. PARK i even Liked all The.

Marbles it's not one of his, greatest but you know the Interesting Peter falk, Film is it to. One with The Lady? Rustling, yes, Yes i'll be watching that soon For The Shabby detective once we get up to eight later seven. Not to go away from, feud BUT i don't want to finish without going back to something you said at the very, beginning and that was the cinematography and how this film was. Shot one of the THINGS i was thinking about WAS i just showed to one of the classes THAT i was teaching On jack Lemon we just Saw Some Like It, hot and of course In Some Like It.

Hot it was interesting Because Marilyn monroe was In Some Like It. Hot but at the, Time monroe always had a writer on her contract that said the film had to be made in, color And wilder, said, no we can't make this in color because the boys would look too grotesque and they would never be able to pull it. Off and so they had to Get Arthur miller to help Convince marylyn to do it in black and. White you gotta believe that added to it and this, movie BECAUSE i think it would have been too much if this movie were in. Color but it made me think of that BECAUSE i had just shown that film like the week Before tim AND i watched this, again and when you See Betty, davis it comes across as grotesque in black and.

WHITE i think if you had done it in, color it would have been too. Much and then, really again it goes back to would people have even taken it seriously because she really would have looked like a clown or although maybe they wouldn't have even bothered with that kind of makeup if they had done it in. Color send us a link to the remake that was done With lynn And Vanessa, redgrave which was in, color and for the reason, They gatto points, OUT i don't think even though they are both great, actresses it looks dated and, garish but not in the garage way it should as a horror. Movie it just looks. Bad, yeah much more traditional clown makeup for that, one BECAUSE i think she's even got like the smears of red on her cheeks and.

Stuff. YEAH i couldn't really make my way through. That the one THAT i could make my way through there was only half an hour, long and that was THE i couldn't believe. This so we've been talking about camp and just dancing around this a little, bit talking about like how the influence on pulp, culture the influence on gay culture. Of this movie is.

Wild it. Is it was embraced the what was it called the THE ggrc And i'm trying to remember WHAT ggrc, Is, oh, yes The Good Girls Riding. Club they a group of drag performers basically did a half an hour version Of What happened To Baby jane Called What Really happened To Baby jane months after the movie came. Out it was embraced that quickly by gay. Culture and it's all done all.

Drag it's really who had very well done some of the special effects that they do with like the animations of the marquis or like the tiny Little jeane singing letter To daddy and. Stuff it's just it's. Remarkable they did a great job and just embracing that grotesquery and you. Can't it's. Funny i'm watching this And i'm saying to my, wife here we are in nineteen sixty three watching all these drag performers Redoing Baby.

Jane and you could go through like all of the however many seasons Of RuPaul's Drag, race and they've probably done at least two or three parodies Of Whatever happened To Baby jane or references to. It AND i remember lines from whatever happened To Baby jane through the lens of the parodies more THAN i actually remember the movie, Sometimes so like when she says the, line. You wouldn't be able to do these awful things to me IF i weren't still. In this, chair. But your heart land you are in that.

CHANT i picture, it R i hear it in my head as but, yeah bland yah, ah like really overdoing it like a drag performance would do you, KNOW i. Haven't been able to use my legs since the. Accident i'd escape from you IF i was one hundred and nine years. Old but job. Blast, yeah, LOCALLY i thought that was pretty much How betty did.

It she doesn't do it nearly as broad AS i thought she. Did that's her fashion years steep out line For Baby. Jane but ye ah and the chat Blant, yeah interestingly, enough it's funny that you say that. NOW i was thinking of it then and THEN i forgot to say anything To tim about. It but it's one of the rare times where in that, film at least where you really hear Her New england come, out because she was In New, englander, Right why is she from Around boston?

Somewhere? Yeah you definitely hear, That like WHEN i said How Susan sarandon embraces The Betty davis. Ness eventually in that, PERFORMANCE i really start to hear that and the whole thing with her, daughter and when she talks with her daughter on the, PHONE i really hear The new englandness of. It and we didn't mention that was her daughter B d in the. Film, SORRY i.

Was talking about the disabled daughter that she had put. Awake but, yeah B, d, man oh, man they are merciless to B. D oh my, gosh it's just a. Mother how don't, Worry you'll be, fine and just the horrible line. Deliveries that actress is.

GREAT i loved her In sabrina The Teenage. Witch ye really? Mad, yes, YEAH i love, her and she did a great job of being a bad. ACTRESS i, Do AND i had to agree that B d the actress is pretty bad in the few lines she. Has but of course that's interesting and feud because we all, know of course About Christina crawford And Mommy, DearS and she is referred, to but it never appears in the.

Series and then you see the twins who see much closer to their, mother and yet you then See Betty davis and her tortured relationship WITH. Bd and we know that B d wrote a similar scorching, book but in her, case she published it while their mother was. Alive AND i watched an interview WITH bd after that first book came, out and, it As i'm sure you probably, know she was disinherited over that, book but she in this she claims in this interview it was the only way she could talk to, her to get through to her mother because her mother wouldn't listen to her or. Whatever so it's bizarre as. Well But davis apparently had a very close relationship with her.

Mother but by most, accounts or at least Anything i've, read it was a very good. RELATIONSHIP i don't. Know but in this, INTERVIEW bd Mentions Joan crawford And Christina crawford and says like whenever she was in their, company the two of, them she, SAID i don't Think joan liked. Me she said she it was like she wanted to Keep christina away from me BECAUSE i would be a bad influence on her or. Something but she also said something like she Was joan maybe a germophobe two or.

Something but she said she had a lot of hang ups that even Though christina AND i should have probably had a friendship of, sorts she, Said joan never let her really even talk to. Me, then of, course don't forget As i'm sure you both know, this but there were Certain hollywood people who you, know, because As jim, Says Joan crawford was dead when this book came, Out but there were Certain hollywood people who were friends With Joan crawford who were aghast at this book and Excoriated christina for having written. It DIDN'T i read, too with feud That Olivia dack was pretty miffed about this. Too he SUED i think she was one hundred and one years, old and Sued Ryan. MURPHY i don't know her defamation or whatever the basis.

WAS i presume didn't get very, far or maybe because she passed away it. Ended But otto AND i were, saying if you really wanted to do another version Of Baby, jane it would have been great to Star olivia De havilin And Joan, fontaine as they were two sisters who did hate each. Other Mike wella wanted to run each other down with the, car AND i. Do appreciate how they bring all that stuff Into feud as. WELL i was very.

CURIOUS i like the structure of the whole, series where we are cutting away to these interviews that are taking place well after the events that have happened in the past and bringing OUT i Thought Catherine Senda jones looked absolutely amazing in. That but it was so weird HOW i was get to confuse a lot of times because she's wearing a blonde. Wig Kathy bates is wearing a blonde wig As Joan, blondell and Then Judy davis is wearing a blonde wig as Hed, Hopper and there were times where they would start in a long shot And i'd be, Like, okay which blonde does? This? Now who AM i looking?

At BECAUSE i can't tell the. Difference. Sometimes, Well Judy davis a few times in the, SERIES i don't know if it deliberately or, not reminded me Of Betty davis As Baby, james who was just so over the top and his wild. HAIR i Loved Judy davis as an, actress AND i know nothing about the real Head hopper or accorate that, was but, thought, yeah maybe tone it down a bit when we're talking About. Hopper it makes me think Of William, hopper who of course was her, son who Played Paul drake for nine years on The Perry mason television.

Show and these old actors and. Actresses the woman who Plays Victor buono's mother In Whatever happened To Baby jane As Marjorie, bennett who appeared in Two Who Barney miller. Episodes later, On tim reminded me of. THAT i GUESS i don't recall that being talked about on The life And times Of Captain Barney. Miller i'm gonna have to file a.

Grievance we do need to Give Marjorie bennett a shout out because as an awful, mother she doesn't have many scenes in the, movie but she's very. Memorable she was. The female equivalent Of oh that. Guy she was. Wonderful she was in so many, things and she really was a great character, actress just so, great and she WAS i, REMEMBER i know that she was in Two.

Barney's the ONE i remember is where she's the lady who doesn't understand why they've brought her in because she keeps writing checks for which she has no, funds and when she's talking To, harris she, says we can straighten. This she goes, here let me write you a. Check but she was another great character. ACTRESS i love the character, actors no matter who are where they, are love them. All getting back to the camp, issue one of the things That feud does is make explicit the homosexual community admiration For Betty davis And Joan crawford, because and AGAIN i don't know how accurate this was in regards to what actually, happened but When Betty davis first Meets Victor bono In, feud she seems appalled that this is going to be my co, star although probably it's not accurate as it's the novels what he expects that could Be Carry.

Grant but he's perfectly. Cast. Yeah but then when he, says, oh Miss, DAVIS i love, you and my community worships, you you could see her. Softening and then and later in the, series she comes to his rescue after he's been. ARRESTED i love that scene where she says he's an.

Actor he's just. Here it didn't engage in anything. Inappropriate he's just doing research for. Film and then the cop doesn't believe, her so she takes her hat and sunglasses. Off do you believe me?

Now and then you see him with her. Afterwards, oh thank. YOU i couldn't call my. Mother you're the only ONE i could reach out. To AS i, SAY i don't know.

That was a great. Scene, YEAH i don't know if that's, true BUT i definitely enjoyed that moment in the. Series, yes it has an artistic truth to, it and it makes you empathize with both of, them and also whether it was true For, bono it was certainly true for so many actors and actresses in that. Time, again this kind of having to be, hidden and you could see the camp element, saying what is it we? Admire it's the, outrageousness the sense that these particular actresses go to the, max and there's just something energizing about.

That all, right, guys let's go ahead and take another break and play a preview for next week's. Show right after these brief. Messages Bring Home The Smurfs movie on digital. Now in this fun epic, adventure The smurf's team up with new friends on a daring rescue mission to Save Papa smurf from a league of evil. Wizards by the film, critics are calling pure comedy magic and get over thirty five minutes Of smurftastic, extras including new music From rihanna And, moore available at participating, retailers RATED pg From Paramount.

Pictures what about the doll in her? Apartment could be a? Fetish fetish can be, anything any non sexual object that incites erotic, feelings in this case at. All The strangler based on the terrifying crime wave that has Gripped boston and spread across the. Country that makes number eight for The.

Strangler, yeah it looks that. Way Starring Victor, Bono the Shock sensation of whatever happened To Baby jane has the most, baffling the most horrifying criminal in a. Decade there wasn't, rape no evidence in maltreatment after. Death no woman is safe as long as The strangler lives and roams at. Will there are a lot of.

People who don't laugh at me. Anymore they don't laugh at. Anymore please go, Away. I'll go a, strange shocking being of unpredictable. Emotions no one knows when or where he will strike, again or who will be his next.

Victim that's, Right we'll be back next week with a look at The strangler As Bueno paloosa. Continues until, THEN i want to thank my co host for this, Month, Ottawa tim So. Otto what's keeping you, busy Sir? Mike how long have we been talking about? This i'm finally, working in, fact finishing the index for The baseball book that hopefully will be out By august Or september of this.

Year that's What i'm, doing and still happy to talk to anybody who wants to talk About Barney miller at any. Time And, tim how about, yourself what's new in your? World, Well i'm a professor enjoying my summer, holiday AND i too am willing to Talk Barney miller anytime of day or. Night so if anyone want has that, craving just give me a. Holler my heart was broken when The life And times Of Captain Barney miller podcast came to an.

End that's Why Bear manor Published Barney miller in The files of The Old one. Too so for whenever you're missing talking About Barney, miller you just crack open that, book. Baby although the sad reality is that was perhaps the only show That victor did not appear. On that that's, True. That's.

True you would have been. Great oh my, god there were any number of roles he could have. Played thank you guys for being on the. Show thanks to everybody for. Listening if you want to hear more of me shooting off my, mouth check out some of the other shows THAT i work.

On they are all available At wadingwaymedia dot. Com thanks especially to Our patreon. Community if you want to join the, community Visit patreon dot com Slash Projection. Booth every donation we get helps The Projection booth And Victor bono take over the. World whatever happened To Baby?

James she could? Done she could, say make a, Range, jamie do most. Anything whatever happened To Baby? James whatever happened To Baby jane when she walked. Down the, Street oh the, world the fun at her?

Feet there was no one happened? Sweet whatever happened their Babes, JAPE i see her all movies ON, tv and they are always a grilled to. Me my daddy, SAYS i could be just like. Her for HOW i WISH i, WISH i WISH i WISH i. Were whatever happened To Baby?

Jane so a, smile her golden. HAIR i must ever take me sorefairs or. No one looked. Care what really happened to Babes. Jane here's what happened to Baby.

Jane she didn't grow, Up she just grew. Old she was waiting for that big day that her daddy said would. Come that's what happened to Baby. Jane here's what happened to Baby. Jane she thought the world was at her.

Feet that is what her daddy said was, True but her daddy didn't always. Know your daddy doesn't always. Know so by the past forty, years her life has been nothing but. Tears her daddy said something great wants to. Be and she held them old and old daddy.

Hot and that's what happened to Baby. Jane you were, smile her smile air loaded. HER i must Everything. He's on there now there's no one left. Here and that's what.

Happens, Today. Jane and that's what happened. To J. What really happened to Jan. And that's what happened to J What really happened To jane