Special Report: Digger (2026)

We're in Wayne Media. mother nature she loved to win we. Have a situation 18 trillion dollars millions across europe is that all the bad news there's the nuclear race too. Digger here got us into this mess and digger's gonna dig us out i'm the one who's gonna keep us all from sinking into chaos through this iceberg let's dash. Welcome to a special crossover episode between The Projection Booth and The Culture Cast. I'm your host, Mike White, and doing double duty as he does so many of our other shows, joining me is Mr.

Chris Stashue, host of The Culture Cast. When all else fails, you hit him with the truth. Hit him with the hard truth. Just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Woo-woo!

We are crossing the streams tonight to talk about Digger. The apocalyptic satire Alejandro G. Inuratu carried around in his head for 10 years before Tom Cruise finally agreed to play it. Cruise is Bigger Rockwell, an oil tycoon who torches his own Arctic rig and then races to convince the world he's the only one that can fix it. That's not true.

An oil tycoon who loses his Arctic rig or Greenland rig, I suppose, and then races to convince the world that he can solve the problem. He's got John Goodman as the dictatorial president who seems to like red ties. I don't know what that's all about. Riz Ahmed as his scientist at hand and a visibly disintegrating white cat standing in for the planet itself. Critics are split almost exactly down the middle on this one.

It bombed pretty hard. Cruz is already drawing comparisons for Lions for Lambs with this one. Just kidding. We will be spoiling this movie as we go along, so if you haven't seen it, turn it off. Go find a VistaVision screen.

Just a regular screen is fine. You can watch it there. Go see it at a theater, maybe. We'll talk about that. We'll see if it's worth your Six dollars?

How much are movies in Nebraska? Six dollars? Where the fuck are you watching movies? 1982? I guess Detroit's good.

Sunday morning in Detroit, yeah. I guess a matinee is probably like eight bucks. For us on Tuesdays, five bucks. But on a Sunday, six something. So yeah, it was less than seven bucks.

So Chris. What does a banana cost in this day and age? Ten dollars? Do I have to show my ID when I go grocery shopping? That's right.

Not yet. But soon. Yeah, that's right. Chris, what did you think of Digger? So sans spoilers, which we will get to.

Yes, we will. I loved this movie. My God in heaven. I don't know if you did, but this was just this is the kind of bizarre that I can get on board with. I 100% understand why people did not go see this movie.

I completely understand why this movie is polarizing, actually. I have seen this film compared to Don't Look Up, which, yikes. Comparing that film to this film, I get it, but this is a movie, not a joke like that film. See, I just proved my point. Don't Look Up, I don't even understand the point of that movie.

I mean, it was, this movie can be and is at times heavy-handed. I mean, I think we would both agree. But at least it's entertaining. At least there are performances that people are not just phoning it in. Tom Cruise is doing, you know what?

Tom Cruise is doing something in this movie. If you don't vibe with what it is, I get it. But the character that he's playing is it's very realistic. It's very realistic, but a fantastical realism adjacent. It reminded me a lot of Bo is Afraid.

But I think the thing that it reminded me the most of and, you know, you tell me kind of how far off I am. Didn't Iteratu already make this film with Birdman? Yeah, he kind of did. I mean, it is Birdman. Again, I don't want to spoil the twist of the movie, but I also don't...

It was funny, Brian Renfrow of Movie Meltdown, he and I were talking about this movie because he knew that you and I were covering it, and we watched the last trailer together, and he was like, oh, so the movie takes place in that entire boardroom, huh? And I was like, yeah, it kind of seems that way, not realizing that there was a plot reason for that. not realizing that there was a plot mechanic that they were trying to hide about the movie. And I didn't know the twist going into it. I don't think you knew the twist going into it because the film intentionally hid what the twist was. And I applaud the movie for doing that because it would have completely made what I perceived this movie to be ahead of time worthwhile.

100% different and I think I was willing to get on board with the movie from that that moment there's a scene in the movie where you're just like what in the fuck is happening and it's like oh OK, got it. I got on board. I feel like if you don't get on board, you're not going to enjoy this movie at all. Like, I think you will find this movie to be even more frustrating than, you know, it kind of feeling pandering and or preachy and or both. But I enjoyed it.

And I'm going to be in that 50 percent camp that's on the side of Tom Cruise, Right Choice, Inuratu. interesting film heavy-handed yeah topical yes will it hold up 10 years from now I don't know I hope so Tom Cruise's performance is weird enough I think to hold up and Tom Cruise I think Tom Cruise makes such normal choices for the most part that every now and then when he does a weird thing like this or vanilla sky or eyes wide shut or tropic thunder when he makes a weird choice it It is worth showing up for, which is why I showed up to the theater to watch this Tom Cruise film, unlike every other film that he's released for the last decade. I didn't go see any of the Mission Impossible films in theaters.

They'll be goddamned if I go see Top Gun Maverick in theaters. So, but I showed up for this. So count me as part of the, like, no money that the movie made. What about you, Mr. Mike White?

The jury's still out for me on this one. I mean, you hit the nail on the head when it comes to, didn't he already do this? And it only, well. He being Inuratu? Inuratu, yeah.

Or Tom Cruise? No. I mean, he kind of already did this with Les Grossman. He did kind of do the, I'm going to go under makeup and be unrecognizable. He's more recognizable here, and they're not trying to trick anybody in this movie.

Well, I mean, the hair is definitely not Tom Cruise's hair. But the face, it's like, I don't want to be indelicate, but I've seen some pictures of Tom Cruise lately where he doesn't look that great. And there were times in here where I'm looking at his face. We've got some really good closeups and I'm just like, his face looks younger here than it does in normal life. So it's kind of, kind of strange that way where I was just like, okay, yeah, he looks, it looks pretty good here.

Like looks better than he does when he's just, you know, telling us that we need to save cinema and go back to the movies and see tenant. Oh my God. Thank you. Tenant is back. Tom Cruise said so.

Right. Exactly. Exactly. Um, this is a very broad performance and yes, I was getting a lot of less gross men. Um, I had fun with his performance.

I had some fun with, well, pretty much all the performances. I think Riz Ahmed was probably my favorite of all of these folks. It's interesting seeing, um, and I'm going to forget her name right now, but it was interesting seeing the lady who was just in anatomy of a fall and, um, Oh, what's that one with Ryan Gosling? I liked it a lot. Uh, the space one that they just did project hail Mary.

And it's like, I feel like I just saw her in project hail Mary. So I was just like, yeah. And I was like, Oh my, is she like the flavor of the month here? But she's great. Email Pedro, Pedro Pascal.

Right. Yes. But I really like her and that was great seeing her in this, but yeah, it's, I mean, we're going to have to talk about the twist pretty soon, but once the twist came, then I was just like, oh, okay. I know what's happening here. This is a much more generic movie once the twist happens, because I'm like, oh, okay, now you've really also done this before.

But at the same time, I think it takes away the preachiness of the movie and recontextualizes it in a way that I think is much more interesting. than if this was just being played straight. And I feel like our conversation, once we talk spoilers, may drift into the kind of antithesis of the conversation we had about Alex Garland's Civil War, where it's like, the movie didn't do what we expected, and that's the disappointment. This movie didn't do what I expected, and that's kind of a benefit. I agree with that. I love the world of this film.

I think this movie is art-directed like nobody's business. I really love the sound design. I love how the world of this movie is kind of falling apart and we don't really know why it's falling apart for a long time, but like when he goes in and he's addressing basically like the European Union. and I'm just like when he's in that room that's adjacent to the big conference room the big speech room like the holes in the ceiling the buckets that are catching water I'm just like oh boy what the hell's going on here like is this just saying how bad europe is after reality creeping in that was my perception right and because there's another scene where there's i'm just sitting there going wait a second is there a hole in the ceiling like what is happening here and then that they actually use that hole for something else i was like i'll Okay, yeah.

I think it's very, very clever. I think it's very well directed. I was getting a lot of Yorgos Lanthimos vibes, and I don't know if that's just because Emma Stone was in Birdman and Jesse Plemons is in this one. Jesse Plemons is in a lot of Yorgos Lanthimos stuff. He was in the last Yorgos Lanthimos film, wasn't he?

Yeah, yeah. He was in Bougonia. I was getting a little Bougonia vibe. I was getting a little poor things as well. I think that's because of the world building and especially the world of Digger Rockwell and just this crazy mansion that he's in having fucking alligators stuck up on the ceiling.

I mean, it is just the most garish mansion ever. that you'll ever see. I mean, he is a very, very tacky person and he's very real life to, because he's such a tacky person and really just, this does really skewer just so much of what's going on right now, but in such a better way. I'm, I'm, I'm sad that I didn't think of the don't look now comparison, but this is so much better than don't look now. I mean, that was just so self-aware and self-congratulatory and just self, I love, Oh, I love the smell of my own farts. And I think also some of that comes from, and boy, I'm going to take a roasting for this, but you know what?

I feel like I've talked about it privately enough that I can say it out loud. No speak truth to power. I don't like Leonardo DiCaprio. If you're going to make me watch a movie like this with a quote, big name actor, unquote, working with a big name, like, auteur director. I don't want to watch one with Leonardo DiCaprio in it.

I just, he feels, and same with, same with, I think, Joaquin Phoenix. It's like, all this guy does is love the smell of his own farts. Like, you know, like, he's absorbed the smell of his own farts, and it's become part of his being. And I'm not saying Tom Cruise isn't like that, but Tom Cruise makes all sorts of bullshit movies all the time. Like, This this is antithetical to the kinds of movies he normally makes.

You know, to go back to Tropic Thunder and to talk about Tom Cruise in Tropic Thunder in a film that's actively making fun of Tom Cruise throughout the entire movie. Look, divorce the Scientology away from Tom Cruise for a moment here. I do think Tom Cruise has a fair amount of self-awareness about himself and his place in the world, his ability to make things in the world not adapt to his wants and needs and wills, but he's powerful enough as a human being, right? He has enough sway that he can pick and choose things and he has sway over other people that he can make things happen. He has a level of self-awareness about that.

I think that a lot of people like that don't. And I think some of it comes from having worked in the entertainment industry where a lot of the people in the entertainment industry who are at their best have a sense of humor about themselves. And they're able to not take themselves seriously. And Tom Cruise always strikes me as a guy who can not take himself seriously. And I think that the Tropic Thunder of it all was a very big indication of that.

But I do think this film is an even bigger indication of that. Because for me... You would not do this movie if you had a self-serious nature about yourself, because not only is this Tom Cruise sending up and kind of skewering, like you said, billionaires a la, and let's just get it out in the open here, Donald Trump. Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Mark Zuckerberg, and all the other ones who are... Because again, this is the other thing.

The thing I find funny, and again, the twist of the movie notwithstanding, the world of Digger knows who Digger Rockwell is. And we, in our own universe, know who these people are. but we don't know what they think about themselves and we will never know if they ever have any truth to what they like think about themselves because you can't trust what they say. But, something like this, a fictional version, being able to speak about those things. And we get to see those struggles and internal strife and just like how they react to their brain going sideways and becoming dementia ridden. Like we will never get to know what any of that will look like for any of these horrible billionaires that exist now, but getting to see what is effectively a billionaire actor skewering them and himself at the same time.

Like, I, I'm sorry if this is like heady and up its own ass, but, Some movies are allowed to do that, genuinely. And I'm not going to say Inuratu is a modern-day Stanley Kubrick, but he's attempting to be, because I think anyone who's an auteur, writer, director, working with big stars like this is attempting to do what Stanley Kubrick did, which so many other directors have done, which is find an actor who has the range of Tom Cruise or Robert De Niro or... or Al Pacino and get that range out of them in a movie. And this movie, I think, shows that Tom Cruise actually, again, I'm not surprised that he has range, but when you work with the right director, the right actor's range is just, it's imperceivable on a scale.

And I think Tom Cruise in this movie, it's like willing to make fun of yourself, willing to make fun of other people, and willing to have a self-awareness about all of it to go, okay, I know when to pull back and not to overcommit to some of the kind of beats in the movie that would make this movie, I think, completely unapproachable for most people. I think this movie is going to find its audience once it's out of theaters because the thing I ultimately, the real problem I have with this movie, why the fuck was this movie so expensive? Why is this coming out in theaters? Why does this have a popcorn bucket for it? Like, it is none of those things.

Absolutely not. And I think there's a lot of butthurt around that. And I saw people complaining like, whoa, Tom Cruise's big gamble just didn't pay off. And, oh, it took up all these rooms in theaters when it could have been a smaller independent arthouse movie that was taking that room instead. I'm like, well, where's the independent arthouse movie?

But I'm sure that my theater... had enough room to show the independent art house movie it's not like he kicked this movie out of you know like okay theater two was going to go to this small budget indie you know flavorful thing oh but no tom cruise needs theater too so that's where he's going to put uh digger and it's like no that's that's not how this stuff works you know like yeah and the other thing was like oh this is the last big warner brothers thing and they you know now they're going to get absorbed by paramount and How dare they use this as like the last Warner Brothers film. I'm like, what is your fucking problem? Like, are you worried about the provenance of Warner Brothers movies going forward?

Like, why are you concerned about that? Sorry I don't give a fuck about Warner Brothers who jettisoned Acme versus Coyote. A film, by the way, I didn't do an episode on. You clearly saw as well as I did. Or I don't know.

I'm assuming you saw it. I haven't seen it yet, no. You need to watch it because it's fucking amazing, by the way. It made its money back, you dipshits at Warner Brothers. Go fuck yourselves.

Like, I have... I'm sorry. I have no fucking sympathy for Warner Brothers and I don't care. You jettisoned Looney Tunes, you assholes. Like, that's...

Put that shit on a box somewhere. For real. Like, I'm sorry. You jettisoned Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck? Wow.

You know what I can give Disney credit for? Never doing that with Mickey Mouse. Like, can you imagine Disney just being like, eh, fuck it, a Mickey Mouse movie. Who cares? Like, Warner Brothers are willing to throw anything on the pyre to keep themselves warm at night.

And you know what? Like Riz Ahmed says in this film, like, he would burn your children alive if he thought he could make a profit. Like, It's ironic that Warner Brothers released this movie. given that we are friends with someone, Richard Haddam, we work with him, who worked on TV that was affected by decisions Warner Brothers made because of them shelving Batgirl. He was literally writing a show that was affected by them shelving Batgirl. Like, guys, and it was because they, because what, they didn't think they were gonna make money on a movie with a superhero in it?

Like, maybe that willed out with Supergirl, but that movie still made money. You know what doesn't make money? A product you can't sell. because you choose not to sell it. It wasn't effective. It wasn't killing people like lettuce.

You mentioned Kubrick, and I definitely was thinking of Dr. Strangelove through a lot of this, through some of the sets that they have, some of the interactions that they have. The way that the president is portrayed reminded me, of course, the president in Dr. Strangelove is very milquetoast, but it There are moments where I'm just like, this reminds me of, you know, gentlemen, gentlemen, you know, there's no fighting in the war room kind of thing. It's about that level of parody skewering of things that are going on.

And yeah, I like that they are actually going after the billionaires because I think part of the problem when it came to Don't Look Up was it felt like it was skewering the people that actually care about things. I felt personally insulted by that movie where I was just like, oh, it sounds like you are shitting on me. and not the people that are actually in charge of all this stuff. Whereas with this one, it is very much talking about the people that are in charge of things and just how fucked up they are and how much they want profits. I mean, when they find that this ice shelf in Greenland has collapsed and you send in the three scientists to talk with Tom Cruise... you know, he's just like, well, what about this?

What about this? What about that? And they're like, well, we were concerned about the people. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course, the people. And it's like, yeah, like you already know by that point.

I mean, we're only a few minutes into the film and you're just like, well, I know this person. I know that he doesn't give a shit about any of this. And especially because he just had that long conversation with the guy via the video call. And it's just like, you know, oh, this is not important. And how dare you, you know, interrupt me with all of these things.

You know, the crack is only five feet. That's one 10th of my dick, all this kind of stuff. I'm like this. Yeah. Very less gross men when it comes to some of this dialogue that he's throwing out here, very crude kind of stuff.

He's not that crude through the entire thing, but that runs through him. And then, yeah, you look around this crazy fucking house. And I think that's where most of the money went was the production design, because some of these things, you know, there's a lot of, you know, CGI and, uh, some interesting special effects that they're doing, but just to look at like that infinite set of mirrors that goes on with all of the, um, uh, horns, the, the, from, from the deers all the way around it, or even the, um, he's got a chandelier that has, uh, deer horns, and then he's got a chandelier in his room and you've got that crazy, um, uh, almost, it looks like a, uh, a frame for a painting, uh, where the curtain is going up.

And I like that there's a real symmetry between that green curtain that goes up at the beginning and then the black curtain that comes down at the end. So, I mean, it's a very, very well put together film. I mean, even when it comes to like, when they're in that boardroom that you're talking about earlier, like all of those almost looks like Diego Rivera type murals behind them, but it's all industry and it's all oil wells and, I mean, it's wild to see just how extensive the production design is on this. And it just goes forever. Like, there's no part of this movie where I'm just like, well, this is cheap.

This doesn't look good. It all looks really fucking good. Not only does it look good, I think it also, like you said, there's a, there's a clearly a world outside of everything that we kind of are seeing initially that is very well established, which I really like. It has a sense of being and place and it, like you said, it crafts something that's not just something we've seen before. And I think that that's, I don't know, like in this day and age, like a lot of things we've seen just have that same note to it.

I guess the other thing I might compare this to a little bit is Mickey 17. Yeah. Yeah. I was getting some Bong Joon-ho. I can't remember.

I'm sorry if I fucked up his name, but I was getting some vibes of him as well. Right, which I think it's very funny because that film is also skewering American culture as well, and skewering a certain facet, a certain, I would say, greed of American culture, or output of greed of American culture, so... I think it's very interesting that both of these films have that similar kind of tone. But I mean, again, you know, to go back to, you know, my my initial example of Don't Look Up, like I think this film is just I don't know. I just think this film is just so much more interesting than Don't Look Up.

It's so much more it's so less obvious. Right. It's actually trying. It's not so on the head about everything. Which is funny to say when you have John Goodman with that red tie and the insanity that he is exhibiting through this whole thing.

But at the same time. You have Tom Cruise in a wig and a thing and a rich guy as well. But that twist... tempers all of that by should we go ahead. And i was gonna say so from spoilers from here on out i think if you are thinking about seeing the movie please do not listen from this point out not because i mode spoilers or everything but it it is a spoiler best enjoyed during the movie because it actually recontextualizes the entire movie not one of these like bullshit twists at the end this is a twist that happens in the first 30 minutes of the movie in a two hour film. Right And yeah, like you said, I was genuinely surprised.

When this happens, I was like, oh. okay what's going on now this is suddenly interesting. Yeah wild too the way that they frame that twist the shot framing i was like what the fuck is happening in this movie all of a. Sudden like yeah that almost felt terry gilliam-esque the way that this. Center for ants i thought it was like i was like how is this happening what is going on here. Right so we should just say it flat out Tom Cruise is dead through this entire movie.

Yeah. I was going to say, Tom Cruise is his own father. Right. He's traveled through time. No.

So what is the twist is fucking fantastic. I love when the tree just falls over. And I'm like, what the hell is happening? Because you get these great shots of the outside and they are playing with the artificiality of the outside world, even some of the inside world. Yeah.

And when you see that tree... And then Bob Newhart wakes up. Yeah, exactly. He's like, oh, was this a dream? And he looks at Tom Cruise and he's like, it was all a dream, Bob.

Yeah. And then Patrick Ewing comes out of the shower. It was wild. Patrick Ewing! Yeah.

The basketball player? Well, isn't that... J.R.? Well, no, but it's his brother. Oh, I thought it was the basketball player.

No, no. So I think I'm mixing up Patrick Duffy, who is the actor, with whatever Ewing, because it was J.R. Ewing and this was his brother. But I now just want to see a version where it's Patrick Ewing, the basketball player for the Knicks coming out. Why not?

He was in The Exorcist 3. Sure, there you go. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, Mike, not to keep making a joke. What is the actual twist of Digger?

So there's a demon that passes between all of these guys when they whistle a song. I was going to say, I was trying to think of like, what would be the most absurd twist for this to be? And it's like, you know, yeah, that's probably pretty close. So the reason why we keep bringing up Birdman, it's not because this is some, you know, experiment that everything is going to try to look like one continuous shot. Instead, it's that this is all a play.

Now, this is the most elaborate play ever filmed ever. Like, there is no fucking way that this is a play. But that is what we're supposed to believe, is that what we've been seeing this whole time is a play. And we suddenly go in and out. A dress rehearsal for a play.

Yes. Dress rehearsal for a play. Their technical rehearsal is what they're calling it. So they're really trying to make sure that all the special effects are working. And so then it becomes, oh, Tom Cruise doesn't have his Digger accent in this scene.

Okay, he's not actually Digger at all. He's this other guy. Interesting. Okay, what the hell is going on here? Now, the subplot when it comes to the daughter being missing because of a flight, who gives a shit?

I don't care one iota about any of that stuff. I guess it just gives him more of a heart as the actor because there are times where they're like, oh, you're perfect for this role because you are so self-centered and okay, you never really get to know him as the actor character. You mostly get to know him as the digger character. You do get to see that he is not this a-hole all the time, that that is a role that he's playing. But once they get back into the play, you kind of forget it again.

It's not like you're suddenly surprised again when they go, oh, no, we're back out of the play. It's like, oh, okay. You start to suddenly remember and you're like, okay, no, this is all an act. All right. But Is it?

Is it not? Like, what are we seeing here? So I appreciate what they're doing with that twist, though, by making this a play. That's where it's just like, OK, I'm Birdman. I've seen this before.

Can I float an idea here? Sure. This is just me. This is just me waxing poetically about a movie that I resonated with a little bit more than I resonate with most things. Is the movie also not a play on...

Is this not just Tom Cruise, also meant to just be Tom Cruise? Because we never even see what he looks like without the Digger makeup on. And there is an implication at one point where we see prosthetics, that this is not also... necessarily what he looks like on a day-to-day basis. I mean, yes, this is a kind of a send-up and parody of billionaires, but I also think Tom Cruise is kind of, once again, and I mention this because of the Birdman of it all, I think it's also a send-up of actors and acting. Because like you've already mentioned, this idea of he has a daughter who's coming to visit him, and she's flying across the ocean, and then her plane gets lost, but he's able to find her because he gets in bed with the billionaires.

Is that not also just the like, Well, even we are not beyond indulging the same way that these people did and being, like you said, self-centered and wanting what we want. and you know I think of the film Contagion where it's like, well, sorry, Kate Winslet, we can't get you back here because the senator is using the plane to get back here and having one of their own family members flown here. And it's like, oh, so privilege is always extended to people, but it doesn't feel like privilege extended to someone when we like them, when we are worried about them, when something bad has happened to them. It doesn't feel like a bad extension of privilege because we're going out of our way to help them.

No one calls it that. And so it's always one of those things where privilege Privilege is interpreted from two perspectives, from the person who's not getting the thing and then the person who's getting the thing or doing the thing. They may not view it as privilege. They may not see it that way. And I like that this movie also, it's kind of like there's meta within meta of stuff going on because I don't feel like you have something like that in the movie without there being a reason for having it.

Well, when you show me two full head masks that this actor wears, is allegedly wearing one of them right now, and the actor is Tom Cruise, of course you're thinking Mission Impossible. Right. Also that. Yeah. Again, it's like it is a movie as much about Tom Cruise as an actor as it is about billionaire.

Like, again, I don't think it's like Citizen Kane, but I think it's somewhat Citizen Kane adjacent. I would say the best comparison for this movie is imagine if Citizen Kane was the framing device for it was a stage play. It's I mean, and then I think for me, the twist that actually is a really interesting one. And it's again, it's the meta meta nature of the movie is. Digger's real nephew is financing a play about his uncle who destroyed the world and that is an interesting twist within a twist because it's speaking to the meta narrative but the meta meta narrative within the film as well.

Absolutely yeah that is that second twist where you're just like whoa okay and it's Jesse Plemons so he's able to pull that off like nobody's business he is without a doubt for me, the most fascinating person in this film. And he just, I love the way that he's hanging in the background through a lot of this and he'll show up. And of course, Jimmy, Jeremy, Jesse Plemons slays a creep like nobody's business. So you're just like, is he just a creep or is he have something going on here? Or is he maybe like a, reporter who's trying to get the scoop on this thing so it's not until he really comes out and talks about it where you're just like oh okay and when you You know, he like has a name for the play.

We get to see that later on. We get to see the poster for the play. We get to see the reaction. Great. I love it.

Yes. Awesome. Fools. God. But that feels very Dr.

Strangelove. That feels very like it's a nail on the head. But again, it's so like exaggerated that it works. Right. Right.

Well, yeah. I mean, you do get to see some of the mechanics of the play within the play, like when they finally make that break. And the first break of it is, you know, it follows a pretty strong three act structure. It's about 30 minutes into this, that, that tree falls over and then you get that giant person. It looks like a giant person coming out of the behind the tree and replanting it.

And you're just like, what the hell's going on? That's where I was like, this feels very Terry Gilliam to me to see this giant person come out. And then you're like, oh, this is all video projection. Okay. And you get to see some of these things like the floor spinning and all this kind of stuff.

And it also helps when you know that it's a play because then you look at things like when he addresses, I have to guess it's the EU because it's Europe as a contingency. Right. And when they go to that, and I love how everyone is dressed in the very drab clothes. They all look like they are basically the same person. But when you get some of those shots and you're looking around, you're just like, there are tons of mannequins in this room.

What is going on here? Like, why is that person a mannequin? And why is that person a mannequin? And it's like, oh, they're just saving money because this is a play. And then it's like, okay, now I got it.

But it's very funny, especially when it breaks out into chaos and everybody is moving except for like that person, that person, that, you know, and you're just like, what is, oh, okay. They're all mannequins. I was actually looking for like those, weird creepy uh asian cgi creatures that were in that disney movie that were like you know clapping in the stands kind of thing i don't know if you're familiar with that but they used some very early cg body doubles for stuff and it was just a nightmare fuel i thought at first like oh is he trying to do that to like you know get the crowd bigger than it is but no it's like no this is a play and these are just ways of getting you some more bodies in this forum.

I love the reveal because, like you said, it makes... It just makes the... It makes the whole film work. It actually makes it a film worth watching. And again, I go back to this idea of who is Tom Cruise playing in this movie?

Well, I think he's playing himself, who's playing a role of an actor who is in a satire about a person who ruined the world in this world. And the whole world is having to deal with this one person's decisions. and Tom Cruise's character, Curtis Markson, which by the way, I'm just going to keep calling him Tom Cruise because I'm just going to call him Tom Cruise because he's just playing himself. He's playing a fictional version of himself when he's not playing the character of Digger Rockwell. There is a scene in the movie that I think, there's going to be one of two scenes when he wins the Oscar because I feel like this is also like I just think it's going to be the opportunity for them to just give him the Oscar.

Finally, I think in my opinion, like not that it's not deserved for his body of work, but I just think like, this is the kind of movie that gets that from, from the Academy at this point, especially given that it's also a Hollywood movie about the industry and, We know the industry loves to pat themselves on the back. When we talk about the character that he's playing in the movie, he's playing a character, like I said, who's having to deal with the effect of the legacy of the other character who he's also playing. And there is a moment in the film where he breaks that. down because he feels like he, Tom Cruise's character, is trivializing the effect that the Digger Rockwell character has had on the world.

And he doesn't want how awful he is to get lost in everything. And that scene for me, like I said, is I think the scene that they're going to play on the Academy thing for his nomination, because there are two scenes in this movie. It's that and that huge monologue with the E.U., But for me, that scene is just it cuts to the core of what this movie is about, which is like, yes, we can sit and joke about all these things, but they're fucking this up and there's nothing we can do about it. Like, that's the thing. Like, we never see the real normal people in this movie.

And I think the point is like the real normal people can't do anything about it. But we are seeing the real normal people. We're seeing the people playing the characters. These are the real normal people and there's nothing that they can do about it. Other than the privileged ones like Tom Cruise, who saves his daughter, which again is like the kind of biting inward satire of like looking at myself as well and acknowledging I do have a massive amount of privilege.

I really like when John Goodman's character goes off the deep end. There's this whole running thing of him having ass cancer. Yeah. So childish. And when he decides that his cancer is because of the world having problems, and just the way that his logic just leaps and twists and sinews all around everything, that's pretty great.

And that, I was just like, wow, this feels very... true to life with just how insane this person is. I also like that they don't show the destruction, that they're all in that situation room and watching all of the destruction going on, but not actually showing us. I mean, when, what's his name? Michael Schoenberg? Stuhlbarg.

Stuhlbarg. Thank you. When he grows up, I mean, that was kind of surprising for me. Very surprising to see Bernd Gorman so... little in this movie. Cause I'm just like, Burt Gorman's huge for me.

But I think there's a lot of this movie that got left on the cutting room floor. Cause Sandra, who let her, her character has a dance scene in the trailer. Okay. So there's stuff that there's definitely, this is a two hour and 10 minute movie. I kind of feel like there's more likely a version of this movie.

There's like two hours and 40. It's like, it definitely feels self-important enough. And again, like you can view it as meta or not. I think it's rather funny that this movie is like as long as it is, and there's probably more to it, but there's at least another half an hour to this movie. There has to be, you know.

I was really glad to see this guy. Pip Torrens is his name. i've only seen him and maybe one other thing where it was um i think he was in preacher do you remember when they brought preacher to uh television the seth rogan you mean yeah yeah and he was amazing in that and he's amazing in this too he's got such a great fucking face and i just really like the energy he's bringing i really like the um basically General Ripper, that guy, the Admiral guy, that you've got the two military guys, one Army, one Navy, and one wants to attack it from the top, the other one that wants to attack it from the bottom and it's like maybe you shouldn't attack this maybe it's going to make things worse and then when it does it's like okay great and they just gotta know when they see just how much they've broken up this uh what what do they call the the second one they uh Kremlin Agueda or something?

Kremlin Nova. Yeah, it's so funny. So funny that. They're doing this. It's not, you know, we talked about this when we did Midnight Viewing all those years ago, the show that I worked on with Father Malone before he went and has taken it and is doing his own thing with it.

We talked about, we talked about, what was it? There was something we talked about that was so similar to this. We talked about Twilight Zone 85, and then we talked about those Twilight Zone reboot episodes. And it's like, those episodes don't age well now because they're too specific and not funny enough. They're not biting.

They're not smart about the satire. And I think that this movie has some legs to it because it's not a Donald Trump thing. I mean, we haven't even said his name up until this point in the show, but it's not just because it's not just a Donald Trump thing. It's like a I mean, I guess I did say it earlier, I guess, but it's not just a Donald Trump thing. It's a billionaire thing.

It's a self-absorbed actor thing because of the play. spoiler of it all like there are parts of this movie that are specifically i think pointed at specific people but it's not doing what that twilight zone reboot did the jordan peele one which is just i don't know if you're too specific it feels like it can't ever be topical only then like it like i always go back to that gag and scary movie four where craig bierko is jumping on the sofa And it's they're recreating the Tom Cruise Oprah moment to speak to Tom Cruise again. And it's like, who knows about that scene? Like, who knows about that now in 2026? Is that a cultural touchstone for everyone? Like, I don't think so.

Well, it is for our generation. And then when he starts to climb up the fireplace and grabs that shovel. I was just like, oh, boy, watch out, because he also climbs on furniture at the EU as well. He's going across those desks. Wasn't he like kicks a woman in the face or something?

He takes a shoe to the face at one point. Oh, my God. That shoe was amazing. And I'm like, OK, is that a George Bush reference? I'm assuming it's got to be.

But again, they reference things that they know by doing a certain thing that they will allow the audience to think a certain thing. and look digger has a i would say like a general without being too specific to wear southern accent as well like he is kind his character i would say is a shit heel good old oh you want to talk about i mean like you want to say oh it's donald trump like i think in a lot of ways this movie could just be as much about jerry joan or you know a lot of those southern asshole fucking oil men like it because again like he's an oil man you know i've we got that shovel and we're digging forward. Like, I think what's very funny is in that opening scene of the film, everybody keeps tripping over the shovel, which I think is very, very, very, again, like it's very intentional.

Like I can draw a lot of intentionality from them doing that. And what in a rot to as a director and writer is, And the rest of the writers are trying to say by doing that. And I don't need the movie to over explain it. And that's the thing that's nice about this movie is that this is one of those movies where everything is intentional, but not in a going to beach over the head with a moment. You know, I know we always talk about room 237 and give it, you know, it was about the moon landing.

I don't know if it's about the moon landing, but I can't tell you it's not about the moon landing because there's enough stuff in that movie where I'm like, well, that's not done unintentionally. Like there is a reason there's intentionality behind it. And all these characters tripping over this phallic symbol of the shovel on the ground that he keeps talking about was his daddy's shovel and that there wouldn't daddy be proud and we're winners. Like, There's a lot of intentionality I can draw from that being the case in the movie. Oh, yeah.

And as I'm assuming you did as well. And it's like, this is that kind of movie. And yeah, no shit. This movie is not going to play well with the nine to five Saturday crowd that went and saw Mission Impossible. That's on the studio for thinking that was going to be the case.

Not for the movie. The movie was very intentional with what it's doing. I can't help it if the studio didn't understand that. Yeah. I love the metaphor of the tuna.

The whole thing where he's just like, oh, you know, like, I don't eat tuna. And, you know, it's so bad. And this is inside of the world of the movie. So they're not even talking about the environmental effects of, you know, the tuna and stuff after this. You know, like in the quote unquote real world of the movie.

But this whole thing. Our world now, essentially. Yeah, basically. Yeah. And it's just like, oh, yeah, that's bad.

It's kind of like a few years ago where it's just like, don't eat. chilean sea bass like they're overfishing and it's ruining the world and you know don't eat this eat this instead don't eat that eat this instead and it's like you know i can't eat this tuna that's really bad and then digger gives this the the character digger gives this whole thing about like oh yeah this is raised by this guy who you know hand raises them and pets their scales and does all this stuff and eventually convinces Riz Ahmed, you really do need to have this last piece of this tuna. And then after he eats it and enjoys it and just has a great time with it, then he's like, yeah, I don't know where the fuck that tuna came from.

I just made up all that shit. So fucking good. It's so good, right? And again, when it speaks to the theme of this fucking movie, like it is literally, again, a microcosm of this movie. Like just in a one scene, you could show this scene and be like, that's the theme of this movie.

Like that this movie speaks to entirely. It's like, it doesn't matter where the fuck it comes from. It could still be good. But at the same time, the lies we tell ourselves about things allow us to enjoy things a little bit more or not worry about it. Because that's the monologue that Tom Cruise does for 10 minutes.

Oh, God, yeah. I just watched Three Days of the Condor. And that's partially the theme of that movie. It's like, you know what? They won't ask us to drill for the oil.

They just fucking want us to. Because if we don't have the oil, can't keep warm in the winter and cool in the summer, you can't drive your car anywhere. can't go on vacation, can't do anything. Because if we don't have the oil, you can't do anything. I love that. I love that.

He's just like, well, we got solar. We got wind. And we got this. And he's just like, fuck you. Like, he's just tearing down everything.

You know how long it'll take to switch over? And it's like, yeah, it will. And that's the truth. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. But like, again, like, it's the reality of the situation.

Right. Yeah. We could have started, you know, years ago. We could have started in the 1970s if we had wanted to. We could have started so many times.

I mean, being from Detroit... The whole thing is just like, oh yeah, the auto companies are just like, oh, streetcars are unsafe. You need to buy a car. Don't take these horrible streetcars. Don't take this public transportation.

They're being powered by a lot of these streetcars by electricity. And so it's just like, I'm sure that the gas companies, the oil companies were just like, yeah, fuck yeah. Oh yeah, that's very dangerous. We're going to prove that this is really super dangerous, you know, and we'll lobby and we'll do everything that we can in order to hook you on this and then good luck getting Good luck getting that needle out of your arm. Well, and again, you mentioned the idea of once it's there, it's kind of hard to undo.

I mean, that's that in Three Days of the Condor. He's like, they're not going to want us to ask permission. They're just going to want us to have the oil. And then this movie cuts that same idea of, you know, you might not like what I do, but without what I do, you wouldn't be able to live. You wouldn't be able to do the things that you do.

And it's like, I don't know what to tell you, but people like me have to exist. We all want the world to be sunshine and rainbows and, you know, Riz Ahmed saying, you know, I don't eat tuna because it's bad for the environment. And the funny thing is like the movie is confidently incorrect. But at the same time, the movie shows you that like, no, see, here's the thing. Like the scientist was fucking right this whole time.

He was right. You're fuck. You know, like they like to say, fuck your feelings. Your feelings don't matter. You know what doesn't care about your feelings?

Mother nature. And Tom Cruise even says that. And it's the truth. Mother nature doesn't care about your fucking feelings. Either way, with or without us exploiting her, she doesn't care.

The lion eats the gazelle. Nature doesn't care because that's the way nature is the way nature is. You won't want me to ask for permission when you're freezing to death. You want me to do this, but then... you bite the hand that feeds. And again, they even have that fucking metaphor in the movie with his cat biting him.

It's like the cat bites you at the end because your usefulness as it's perceiving it is no longer needed. And it's like, what did the cat, the cat hate me the whole time? It's like, yeah, the cat probably hated you the whole time, but the cat, but you still loved the cat and the cat. It didn't matter. Right.

Exactly. Yeah. And you wonder when you see him wearing that bandage, you're just like, what the hell's going on? Did I miss something? Was there another scene?

But when you get that explanation, it's like, oh, that's a really nice thing. And it's funny, what you said about him being like, yo, you need me to do this. You need me to supply that oil. As he's saying that in the movie, I'm just like, you need me on that wall. You want me on that wall.

Like I just start thinking of a few good men. I was just like, wow, he's become Colonel Jessup now. Like he's the one now that is just like, you know, I'm the one that's protecting the world. I'm the one that all the, you know, the life's problems are falling on. I'm the savior and you need to follow me and you need to take all of my advice.

Well, and you mentioned that it's like, oh, this, this, could be the EU. I also think it could be, you know, again, if you read it subtextually as this being Tom Cruise, the actor. talking about his you know career you know him as his career right i don't know if tom cruise believes that hollywood needs him to be successful tom cruise the real person but the persona that he's giving in this movie you could look at it that way as like well there is a universe where someone like tom cruise like we've already mentioned during the pandemic they trotted him out to try and be like see tom cruise says go to the movies right There is some of this that might be Tom Cruise just poking fun at himself and his own legacy as an actor.

And there is not any of that in Don't Look Up. There is no meta meta narrative. And I don't think that this is us like sniffing our own farts here. I think in a rot to, as a director and writer and Tom Cruise, as the star, give the, give up the ghost very easily with this movie. Like they're not hiding that, but I think they're asking you the audience to play along.

Like they're asking you to be an audience in two respects, an audience to the play in the movie, but an audience to the movie itself. And then the meta narrative that the film is kind of playing against itself within the movies kind of content. Well, it's funny, you know, I totally agree that Inuratu is doing all of this 100%. Out in the open. Yes, very open.

This ain't out in all the moon landing stuff, which again, Kubrick was doing that out in the open too, but it's less obvious if you want to go there. This is pretty obvious. But I mean, Birdman with Michael Keaton is such a metaphor for Batman and the way that Batman and his thoughts probably ruined his career a little bit by doing that. which is funny because everybody was saying that he was going to ruin Batman. I think there's so much goodwill towards Michael Keaton that that was one of the reasons why that movie was such a hit. Also, you know, the whole gimmick of the one shot thing, the, use of the drums as the soundtrack, a really strong performance from pretty much everybody across the board.

It was good. But you look at that and you think about the goodwill that people have towards Michael Keaton. Him coming back, even though it was a shit, shit, shit movie, that Flash movie that he was in, it was great seeing him. It was wonderful to see him back. The best part of that movie without a doubt.

Absolutely. Absolutely. But I think the problem is there's the opposite thing going on with Tom Cruise. Because I think people, and they've been doing this for like 20, 30 years, they hate how successful he is. And they hate him as a person, as an actor.

And it's just like, well, I don't see Tom Cruise movies. I don't want to go see a Tom Cruise movie. And it's like people bragging like, well, I haven't seen those. And I haven't seen the last few Mission Impossibles because I started to get really lost. I think that they were kind of crawling up their own ass when it came to their whole mythology that they have.

Yeah, it was wild. It's like a myth. I mean, when Mission Impossible was great when I didn't have to watch the two Mission Impossibles for it to appreciate it. Well, and then I would watch the two Mission Impossibles and I would still be like, Wait, is that Michelle Monaghan or is that that other chick who looks exactly like Michelle Monaghan? It's cool to hate on Tom Cruise.

Yeah. Yeah, great. Can I just say this? Get roast me. I actually don't mind that mummy movie because Tom Cruise never makes those kinds of movies.

And he made one of those movies. And yeah, it's not great. But guess what? Most of the time he's making shit like Mission Impossible. It's like literally the mummy American made Mission Impossible, Top Gun, Mission Impossible, Mission Impossible than this movie.

Hmm. Every now and then he makes a decision that's weird. He's like anti-Nicholas Cage. Nicholas Cage, that's all he does is take weird jobs. And then like every now and then he'll make a mainstream movie.

Tom Cruise is like inverse. All he does is mainstream stuff because, and the reason this movie is a failure financially, not as a movie, but financially, is because overseas I'm not sure anybody in like China is going to go see this movie. Yeah, I don't know how much appeal this is going to have. And I think part of the appeal is, I mean, you saw the trailers for this. The first trailer for this was basically, well, it was, I mean, I heard about it before I saw it.

I was talking with, I think it was my friend Mike Thompson. He was just like, I don't know how they pulled this off because he has worked for so many studios that were all of his years. And the first trailer for this movie was basically a love letter to Tom Cruise and showing like Tom Cruise's greatest hits from I don't know if it was all the right moves or the outsiders, but it was like all the way through his fucking career. There he is in Rain Man. There he is in Color of Money.

There he is. And you're just like, oh, wow. It's everything you're saying as far as this being a movie about Tom Cruise. That's what this movie is. And you watch that first trailer and half of it, if not 75% of it is just Look at how fucking cool Tom Cruise is, you know, all the way through.

Here he is as Vampire Lestat. Here he is as Maverick. Here he is as... And you're just like, wow, yeah, what a body of work this guy has built over the years. What a tremendous amount of range this man has as an actor.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And then, boom. Here he is, dancing around in his skivvies, and just wearing the old man makeup, and he's got a fucking cowboy hat. He reminded me of Burt Reynolds from Striptease or something.

I'm just like, what the fuck is going on here? And they're very, very careful when it came to those first posters. They just used that Digger logo, that kind of Saul Bass-type logo that they had of the word Digger with a shovel. And you're like, what is this? And it's like, here's this new movie by Inuratu.

And it happens to star Tom Cruise. And then the trailer is, look at how fucking amazing Tom Cruise is. And then you get to the third trailer, which is much more like the normal trailer, but it's cut very quickly. And of course, like you said, it stays away from the twist altogether. You're just like, this is a movie about this guy.

And for whatever reason... I knew that he had a cat from that trailer, but for whatever reason, I kept thinking, oh, Digger is the name of a monkey that he has. I'm just like, where did that come from? I don't know what I read or if I dreamed that or something. I was just like, okay.

And then the cat really does. I was like, oh, this cat's going to be in this whole fucking movie. This is going to be a whole struggle. But no, very quickly early on when he does finally take that bandage off his finger and it's like, oh yeah, my cat attacked me. And here's her ashes.

And that's how the cat is through the rest of the film is just this jar of ashes, this tiny little jar of ashes. And I really appreciate it at the end when they're like, well, how can a cat be a cat? But the cat can be ashes as well. And just like trying to explain to that person, like what's happening with this. And when they put their thumb in the ashes and stuff.

And I don't know, there's a lot of clever stuff. Like, I don't know if I necessarily enjoyed the movie while I was watching it. But I'm enjoying a lot more having this discussion with you. And that's I think that's the thing about this movie that when I said, you know, it's going to have an audience once it gets out of theaters and kind of makes it into the audience of. the internet, the cognoscente as it were of, you know, film watchers and film goers. It's, it's a film that I think deserves to be talked about in a way that's not like, it's like serious, but I think it's, it set the tone of the conversation it wanted to have with the audience by showing all those Tom Cruise movies to begin with.

And it's like, I wouldn't, you know, I'm not going to say he's doing this obviously, but Tom Cruise could retire tomorrow and this be his last film. And I'd be like, yeah, that kind of makes sense. Like, It is him kind of doing the last thing he hasn't done, which is just a Tom Cruise thing. And that's it. Like, I know we've talked about him as a actor in all these other movies and Mission Impossible and all these other things.

And yes, those are movies that he stars in. But like, this is like a Tom Cruise thing. like it's just it's him musing on his own career working with a director he's wanted to work with forever apparently like literally I think for like 20 years he's wanted to work with Inuratu like since he saw his one of his early films like it's It's a film that both of them feel very strongly about. And what's funny is, I guarantee you, this movie, 10, 15, however long, if Interato had made this film a year after writing it, the Trump stuff would still be in here and we just wouldn't think it had anything to do with Donald Trump. Because it's not Donald Trump specific. Like, none of this movie is.

They have been doing this forever. This has been going on forever. I mean, it's that's the Riz Ahmed character. Just at one point, he loses it on the plane. He's like, you've literally known about this for fucking ever.

And no one has done anything. Your dad knew about this and he didn't do fucking anything about it. And that to me is, again, Interatu and Tom Cruise and the The people making this movie wanting to have a conversation with the audience where it's like they have been doing this forever and no one can do anything about it. Even someone as powerful as possibly Tom Cruise can't really do anything about it because there are people even more powerful than him. Well, you mentioned Mickey 17 earlier and Bong Joon-ho.

That's the name of the guy I was trying to remember. I really like his movies. I really like his movies. And I like that, again, his movies aren't necessarily the most subtle thing in the world. I mean, the Snowpiercer.

Mickey 17 was very on the nose. Well, that's what I was going to say. Like, he does a really good job when it comes to things like Snowpiercer or The Host or some of these others. And I hope to God that I'm saying that these are all the same person's films. But you get to Mickey 17 and the Mark Ruffalo character, you're just like, oh my God, like, can you tone this down a little bit?

Like, I get it. It's Trump and Trump is fucking crazy and Trump is out of control and Trump is over the top. But Mark Ruffalo, you are in danger of ruining this entire movie across the board because you are still not subtle when. It comes to this. You didn't even go as far as I did.

I think in that episode I did on it, I said, we get it, Mark Ruffalo, you don't like Donald Trump. It feels more personal than even in the script. Like, oh, he's like... there's a very famous wrestling match between Shawn Michaels and Hulk Hogan, where every time a Hulk Hogan hit Shawn Michaels, he oversold and overdid it. And it made the match look like shit because it's like, you, you got to tone it down, man. Like you can't, everything can't be this like chuckling Donald Trump impersonation.

Like I, it's not that I didn't find it funny. It's just, it takes me out of the movie because I am here to be entertained. Right. And I thought that John Goodman balanced that. I think there were, he's not scrumping it even though he's got the red tie.

He, I mean, I would say that Trump duties are probably split down between him and Tom Cruise. Like, I think both of them are so self-centered and I think that the ego of the president that John Goodman is playing is not nearly the ego of Trump. So I think that it's a really sharp performance. I like that they have that whole thing about the AI that they're going to employ. And I love that he knows everything, that Tom Cruise, the digger, knows everything before anybody else, that he even knows that the president has cancer when the president is like, you know, like, I'm going to take you into my confidence.

He's like, and then he's like, you son of a bitch, you already knew. But when they're like, oh, we're going to turn on this AI program and it's going to block all of these things across all the social networks. And when they actually name drop Al Gore, I was like, yep. Yeah, that's pretty accurate. You know, just like, How evil was it that Al Gore tried to make people uncomfortable with climate change?

And we all know that climate change isn't real. It's a hoax that was sold to us by China. I believe that's a direct quote from our current sitting president. What I was going to say, it's funny that we do have China mentioned in this film. It's like, well, we'll just blame China for it.

We'll do a wag the dog and we'll attack China to cover up. And that's the thing. You and I are going to be talking about wag the dog here pretty soon in the hopes of getting anyone who listens at least motivated enough to go fucking vote, for God's sakes, in these midterm elections. And not to be preachy, but I think this movie is also kind of A secret go vote movie as well, because, again, it speaks to this idea of because they split the because they split certain things that you can see on a daily basis up between certain actors and certain characters. It doesn't feel like a Trump thing.

It doesn't feel like a, oh, this guy thing. It feels like a condemnation of all of them as just the surface layer. And then the layer underneath is kind of the metatextualness of it. And then the layer beneath that is the Tom Cruise, which is, again, to go to the why they did that trailer that way, how they sold this movie. I mean, man, that's the thing.

You know, I want to take a momentary pit stop here to mention, like, I want to chastise, once again, people who advertise movies not fucking understanding, like, this movie was never going to make the money back. So don't spend a lot of money on the advertising because you're never going to make that money back. No matter how hard you try, you're never going to make that money back that you spend on advertising. Just accept that you've just accept that you've made an expensive movie and don't sink any more costs into it than you need to because you, you are probably going to do more harm than good, which is, I think, unfortunately, what's happened here. Because critics being split, fine, whatever.

But you baited people into this movie, and I don't think people liked it. I don't think people liked being baited into a Tom Cruise movie thinking it's going to be one thing. when it's another. And I do think that this movie is, I think this movie had a lot of people who saw the Odyssey going to see it and being like, oh, duh, duh. And it's like, yeah, go watch the Odyssey. That movie's surface level.

That's it. Like there's nothing else. There doesn't need to be. Like there's no other anything with the Odyssey. This movie, you have to be willing to operate on certain levels with this movie that I don't think the, like I said, crowd who goes and watches a movie on Friday night's gonna resonate with. but they really tried to sell this movie that way.

Like in a way that I feel feels irresponsible. Right. Which I think is where a lot of the backlash is coming from because it was being sold as something that it's not. Right. I went into this, you know, I don't tend to watch a lot of trailers.

I don't, I think I saw the second. Trailer trailer watcher. You're the only one I know who doesn't watch them genuinely. Yeah. I mean, I really only watch them when I'm at the movies.

And then even then I'm like, Oh, I wish I really hadn't seen that. So, I like Maria Menounos instead. Yeah, exactly. And her new podcast, Health Matters or whatever that is. Movie?

I thought that's what it was called. They would ADR that in for a while. It's like they changed the name and they had to have her come back in and re-record what it was. She's doing it on. Her cell phone while driving down the 05 or wherever the hell it is.

We don't live in LA, guys. Sorry. I don't know what your highways are out there. Recording that way. Okay, we got it.

Good. Send it over. We can clean it up in post. Right. Exactly.

Exactly. Yeah, but yeah, the trailers for this, I was like, okay, cool. That's good. Yeah, this looks good. But yeah, I didn't need to be sold this movie.

I was like, okay. I mean, because I'm the audience, right? I'm the guy who knows who Inuratu is, even though he is making The Revenant, which was... weirdly popular i still don't understand why that movie is as popular as it was in it man i guess that's it and the bears attack yeah. Dude that movie was the like that movie dick rode leo so hard like i fucking hate how like it's not that that's not a fun movie i i didn't don't remember enjoying that movie maybe i should re-watch it and have a you know maybe that's one of those need to re-watch movies based on this movie but i just remember that movie being like well this is Leo doesn't have an Oscar, and so he needs to get his Oscar. Where's that uproar for Amy Adams, who's been nominated like a fucking million times?

Like, it's because she's a woman. That's right. I forgot. Sorry. The Internet only cares about a guy who dates women 20, 30, 40 years younger than him.

That tracks, once again. I don't know. Like, I don't fucking get it, because that movie is just fine. I remember that movie being just fine. Right.

You know, it's interesting how well they do the twist and the balance between the quote-unquote real world and the world of the movie. Because there are times, like I was just thinking about the scene where Riz Ahmed's character picks up a vase and throws it up in the air and it crashes and Goodman is like hey that vase was made for Theodore Roosevelt and like in that moment I give a shit about that even though I you know I don't care that the vase is that old but I'm just like oh you really you broke something that was very old and like you're just doing it to make this point yada yada yada and like seeing like the wreck of a wife that um John Goodman's character has Like, if they were really doing Trump, it would have been like a supermodel walking in very slinkily kind of thing.

But I don't think that Melania is bringing Donald any pills or gives a shit about him whatsoever. But it's like, I care about these characters at that moment. I'm just like, oh, this sweet old lady, and she just seems like such a doddering fool. And then I'm like, oh, wait, these are characters inside of a play. But they do it well enough, and they keep us in the play well. long enough and it's not like i said it's not shot like a play it looks fucking fantastic where you're just like oh like i get into this as a movie and then they'll pull me out and then i'll get back into it and then they'll pull me out and i'm just like okay i like that i don't feel like they're being too clever when it comes to that stuff i think that they're doing the right job by letting me be invested again in the digger story before they say don't forget this guy's an actor And I think it's just that the plot of the actor and his missing daughter.

And again, it takes me a minute, sorry to admit how stupid I am, but it takes me a minute to be like, wait, no, this is the future that they're in. And the weather is so completely fucked up. It probably does happen where planes will go missing or this will happen because they talk about bad weather. And then I'm just like, oh shit, no, the weather is probably way worse because of the future world that they're in. Well, and that's the thing, like I said, to speak back to the idea of like, what is the movie getting at?

Like, it's, it's funny that someone who is even again, possibly just really just again, a sly nod to Tom Cruise as the actor or the person like. Even someone as powerful as him has to go and find someone who is more powerful to help him out in this situation, which I think, once again, is like a like subtle dig at the striations of wealth and power in the world. Because, again, we perceive, I think, and again, I think part of the reason people don't like Tom Cruise is because of who he is as a person. And the amount of wealth and success and power and influence that he has but it's funny that the conceit in this movie ultimately becomes even someone who is essentially Tom Cruise doesn't have that much power to just get a you know a jet to come get their family member out of whatever just because even someone of his ability and means doesn't have that.

And I love that the movie's whole thing once again is like it's a thinly veiled knock at tom cruise but he again he's knocking himself it almost feels like the only time he's ever doing it is when he's part of it which is wild because again like to go back to the tropic thunder of it all tropic thunder yes has tom cruise playing less grossman who's based off of a real person That Tom Cruise knew that Alan Sachs, who I worked with so many years ago, knew as well. I believe it's based off of one of the people's based off of is is like a Hollywood producer that they were all working with at the time. And that's part of the fun of that movie. But the also real fun of that movie is Ben Stiller. who looks like Tom Cruise with sunglasses on, which they did that whole MTV thing, MTV Movie Awards thing in, what, was that Mission Impossible 2 when they were doing that?

Yeah, they had that amazing thing where he. Stunt double, right? Well, they had a few things, and that was the thing that I liked. And I'm sorry to go off on a tangent, but Ben Stiller seemed to understand Tom Cruise, or seems to understand Tom Cruise better than anybody else. Other than Tom Cruise, I think.

Yeah, and I had never seen anybody who was able to get Tom Cruise to send himself up, and it was from some of their earliest things. Ben Stiller used to do Tom Cruise on The Ben Stiller Show, still one of the best TV shows. He did it on Celebrity Jeopardy. Exactly. And then he, yeah, with one of those MTV things, I do remember Tom Cruise sitting there and laughing, and then Ben Stiller doing the laugh, and that makes Tom Cruise laugh even harder.

And they're just going back and forth like, with this laugh off. And I'm just like, I've never seen, because even when he was young, he had a very cultivated personality and he grew into that very quickly. Once he got involved with Scientology, they helped groom him for, and I do mean groom, groom him for like the cameras and everything, you know, he gets his teeth fixed, all that kind of stuff. And here's Ben Stiller able to get this guy to laugh at himself and laugh very hearty. And it was, so it was that surprising to me when, Tropic Thunder came out and you had this Les Grossman character, I mean, for me, that's the weakest part of the movie.

I'd rather stay in the jungle, stay in the shit with my boys. There's not too much of it, though, I think, is the good part. It just felt like it lasted forever for me, especially at the end when he's dancing. I don't know. That was a lot.

I get it. But my point is, he's not the main character. Right. But it was nice that he's able to do that to send up himself, to send up, you know, this other person, because I do remember that thing where Stiller was just like, well, I was talking to him about doing this and he goes, all right, I'll do it as long as I can have really fat arms. And so when you see Les Grossman in those big fat arms with all the hair and stuff, I'm just like, That's exactly what Tom Cruise wanted, was those big, gross arms.

Which I love, by the way. That makes the character. Those fat, ugly, nasty arms, really. Look, I think for me, and I think it's interesting, because Tom Cruise, I think, is a very polarizing actor. And I guess my question is, The polarizing nature of Tom Cruise comes from what?

For you. For you. I don't care about anybody else. This is one of these things where you and I, I think we don't have a difference of talking about politics on our shows, but... it's not that I do or don't want to talk about politics, but like my politics are my own. I don't expect anybody else to have them.

But this is kind of like a theological question of the film variety, which is what is the poll? Cause again, I think there's a lot of actors and movies and people we could talk about that. It's like, what is the theological issue with this actor that you might have? Because again, I know what the societies is. What is the theological issue you have with Tom Cruise?

If you have one. And then question B is, What is it with society writ large that they have with him? And then the C, is it Scientology if it's not something else? Right. I, for me, I really don't have a problem with Tom Cruise.

Like Tom Cruise. And I mean, I have said this in the past that I'm a Tom Cruise apologist because I really like a lot of the movies he's in. And I don't mean just always the mainstream stuff. I mean, I think, you know, another one where he went completely off, the Tom Cruise train was Collateral. I love him in Collateral.

What a great movie. Oh, God. But I also love things like The Firm. I still think that The Firm is probably the best Grisham adaptation. It's so much better than the book itself.

I tried to read The Firm and you just get so bored with the prose and they cut all the fat. Really strong thriller. Really well done. I have no problem. I mean, especially, I think it was perfect for him to be playing Mitch, I think was his character's name.

I'd love that. I can remember it all these years. Grisham names. I just rewatched because we were doing an episode on three days of the Condor. I rewatched the Pelican brief and there is a character in that film called, I shit you not gray Grantham.

So she's like, what got John Grisham? Just leave them normal names. I had such a problem with that. It's such a good, good. Yeah.

I had such a problem with the Pelican brief because I was just like, just walk up and shoot her in the head. Like, nobody's going to miss this person. Yeah, you got to die. Well, you can't kill Julia Roberts in the first five minutes. She's female Tom Cruise, you know.

I mean, it is interesting when you look at his, because he has been fighting against his own image. And I don't know if his image is just like risky business plus top gun, because he already like in between there, he's doing all the right moves and legend. You know, I love Color of Money. I think I've seen Cocktail. I know like Rain Man.

He was just like, listen, I can be serious. And then he gets really super serious with Born on the Fourth of July. And I think these kind of transformative roles have gone all the way back to the fucking 80s, man. That was 1989. And then he's able to do like, you know, interview with a vampire where he's playing Lestat, which was very surprising.

The turn that he did in Magnolia. When he was in Rock of Ages. Right, exactly. When he was in Rock of Ages, a fucking jukebox musical. And oh, by the way, Tom Cruise, not the worst part of that movie.

Alec Baldwin singing is the worst part of that movie. No, no. Russell Brand being in that movie is the worst part of that movie. It's just amazing when you look closely at his filmography and it's just like, here's a risky role. And then he does something like Mission Impossible 3.

And then here's Les Grossman or Lions for Lambs. And then he'll go back and do something else. And then it's like, all right, now it's time for Rockovich. I fucking love Jack Reacher. I don't like the second Jack Reacher movie.

And I think he was They should have just called it something other than Jack Reacher. Don't make it Reacher, man. But he was fucking amazing. I love Edge of Tomorrow. I've seen Edge of Tomorrow.

I don't know how many times. Such a good movie. It's so great. It's like one of the best action films of the last 20 years. I need to go back and watch Oblivion because I just didn't connect with that movie.

And I still haven't seen Eyes, not Eyes Wide Shut. What was Open Your Eyes? Vanilla Sky. Vanilla Sky. You've never seen Vanilla Sky?

No, I've seen the original. I never saw the remake. So, yeah, one of these days I need to do that. Doesn't that speak to Tom Cruise as an actor that, like, he's the kind of actor who would be in a remake of an Alejandro Amanebar film? Like, Yeah, he's he knew about Inuratu since Amor, the Amor's Peros.

He's not about Amor's Peros like that. I think, you know, the thing that I think always cracks me up about Tom Cruise. And I think that this is the thing like it's too bad that he's so successful. And I will tell you why, because I genuinely think Tom Cruise is the kind of actor who would sit in this Zoom with us and talk about movies. He strikes me as like a total fucking film dude.

He's a nerd in a film nerd and not in a bad way. Like maybe in like the, again, like he's supportive of a, I think he's supportive of the industry writ large. And like, I have my issue with Chris Nolan and his filmmaking way of doing things. If you were to ask me who I vibe with in terms of big triple a style filmmaking, Tom Cruise and I probably have more in common in terms of being film nerds, our entire lives. than any of these other people that we've talked about. Because I think he's just, yeah, it's too bad he's so successful because otherwise I think he'd be a lot more approachable as an actor.

But there's got to be somebody like him in the industry. There's literally no one else like him because there's literally no one else like him. He's an anomaly in and of himself. And he did such smart things. So when he was younger, he kind of aligned himself with Robert Towne, the screenwriter.

So almost everything that he would say yes to, he would say yes with the caveat of having Robert, Robert town to a rewrite and like bump up that role for Tom Cruise and give him some really crisp dialogue. Talk about it. And the one, I mean, the Jesus Christ talk about a great person to have as your backup person. It's ripped doctor. My God.

Well, and then, you know, he gets into the mission impossible things and really, you know, it's like, Thanks, Brian De Palma. I've got it from here. I own this franchise. There is no franchise without Ethan Hunt. So now it's all about me.

So what's he do? Goes out and gets John Woo. And then he goes out and he gets, um oh the guy from um i know he's super popular jj abrams jj abrams mad robot yeah. Does that uh and then it was what brad bird was the fourth one like it's just. Like it and eventually he aligns himself with christopher mcquarry and mcquarry now is doing that that robert town role where now everything that he does he's just like okay chris you know give me a rewrite of this basically they add that's how he rolls.

Cause he's just like, I need to align with a strong writer in order to be the actor that I want to be, which is pretty remarkable that you can see that you are not the end all be all. And I think that's where people have their problem with. But yes, I think there is a problem that people have with Scientology and all this. And like, it comes up in the news and it's just like, oh my gosh, like, I haven't heard a peep about Scientology in the last few years. Who gives a shit at this point?

You know what it was? And I'm probably as guilty of this as you were. Shit was an easy target. Shit is still an easy target. And I think it's an easy target because of the industry.

It's kind of involved in being an easy target unto itself. But at the same time, and I'm going to be serious here, I'm critical of all religion because all organized religion kind of sucks. But if you have a belief system of your own and that happens to involve aliens... fucking go for it i don't give a shit like yeah the problem is not with scientology as a belief system it's with the organized religion behind scientology which is my problem with organized religion period that's not a scientology specific thing like. It's that the corporation is so visible as opposed to the vatican which is a corporation or this guy or this guy you're like The whole Joel Osteen type of thing where it's just like, oh.

A name and a face can be put. Right, exactly. And they put the name and face to Tom Cruise. So it's all the evils seem to fall on him. And I mean, hey, yeah, like you, I've got problems with organized religion.

I don't want people to not be living their best life. But whatever he's getting out of it. okay, cool, great. He could be Jewish. He could be Catholic. I mean, who gives a fuck, right?

Exactly. But yeah, people seem to have a problem with that. They have a problem that he jumped on a couch because he was very happy about, you know, his new bride kind of stuff. It's like, all right, weird things, weird flex to be like, oh yeah, I just can't stand this guy. And I think really what it comes down to is that he's very fucking handsome.

He's very fucking charismatic. He makes a lot of fucking money. And he's better than you. He's smarter than you. He's faster than you.

He will always be better than you. So what do you do? You just tear him down. And then you become an edgelord online and you go, oh, when the movie was over, I flipped off the screen and I've only done that one other time. And I'm just like, whoa, settle down, Francis.

They were saying that about this movie? Yeah. There was somebody I read on my Facebook feed. Sorry if I'm calling somebody out, but it was just like, you sound like such a dickhead. Guess what?

He got your money. He won. Like it's one of those things where it's like, you know, and, and you and I always joke about where it's worth me joking about us doing a good fellows episode, but we often quote good fellows back and forth on things. And one of the things we always quote is fuck you pay me. It's like, they already did.

Like you, like Tom Cruise one, if you went and saw his movie, good or bad, he got, he got out of you what he wanted, which is you engaging with him even momentarily. And that's that I think. And to go back to my take on this, I had, have no issue with Tom Cruise just like anything else I could care less about his personal life because I wouldn't want someone judging me for my personal life his personal life is just a little bit more open and by a little I mean a lot but that's also because like we've said he's a fucking big time actor who works in Hollywood and is immensely successful it's hard to It's hard to be someone like Keanu Reeves, who's as visible and successful as he is, and no one knows shit about you other than what you've made available.

That's harder than doing what Tom Cruise is doing. And what Tom Cruise has done is, like you've said, he's manicured his life. But I don't know how to put this, but I think Tom Cruise is at the point where he's like Michael Jackson. Like, what... he can't just go to the goddamn store and buy a banana. Like he's, he can't do that.

He's not been able to do that for some time now. And he may never be able to do that again. And you know, that's why he's got those masks. He's got those masks. Yeah.

It goes in there and he looks like, uh, uh, It's a big new remittance or whatever from a mission impossible three. And it's just like, he. Just looks like John Voight. He's like, well, no one will care if I look like John Voight, no one will recognize me as John Voight. Exactly.

Or Philip Seymour Hoffman. All right. Good Lord. But that that I think for me is is the issue like Tom Cruise. I think it's just he's such a big personality and person.

And like you said, charismatic and all these things that he just it's an easy target. You know, it's like it's easy. It's low. It is the it is the definition of low hanging fruit. And look, I'm not saying Tom Cruise does not have his issues.

There are plenty of foibles that he has Scientology. and being so involved in organized religion kind of is one of them. And kind of being not like a saint of organized religion, but definitely a figurehead. He's not very vocal about it. That's the thing I want to point out here. It's not like Tom Cruise is always talking about the Scientology.

Right. People bring it up to him. Right. We know he's a Scientologist. He's not like, hey, by the way.

He's probably doing that in the inner circles. I'm sure, as I know you have seen, the Z News, you know, Z News best hits. The video from... the 2000s, where it's him talking about the thing with the turtleneck on. It's wild. But is anyone surprised that the guy who's as well-known is doing that for the people in Scientology when he's the most well-known Scientologist?

Like, let's use logic here. If someone is ever going to spot Bigfoot, it'll probably be someone who's out looking for Bigfoot because that's what they do. If Tom Cruise is a Scientologist... And he's an actor and he's the most well-known actor on the planet. Don't you think he's going to be involved in Scientology in some capacity, even if it's just like internal stuff, inward facing?

Like, I don't know why people are surprised. Like, it's just it's always been weird to me, the hatred toward Tom Cruise, because I don't think I've ever understood it. Like he's I'm kind of I'm not going to say I'm like Switzerland on him. I'm neutral, but I've never understood the hatred. I don't like some of the movies he's in.

Like I was joking earlier about Top Gun. Like, fuck that. I don't want to see Top Gun. Because I don't care about that movie. It just seems like bro-y, macho, watcho bullshit that I don't care about.

Okay, but that doesn't mean I'm never going to watch a Tom Cruise movie. Like, clearly. He's one of those actors that I've never understood the hatred. Other people, I get it. Him, I just don't.

Like, if you don't like his personal life, like, I guess you have a pretty unimpeachable personal life then. Like, okay. Yeah, there are some actors, and some actors will go through phases where it's like, we are waiting for this person to fail. I think there was a time even with like a Brad Pitt where it's just like, oh, we are waiting for him to fuck up. Like, what is it going to be?

Why is he, you know, how's he going to get through this unscathed? And then he made the very smart choice of not really being the pretty boy actor by taking the more challenging roles pretty darn quickly. And I, I mean, if you get offered a Top Gun or Rain Man or, you know, some of these other early films where he was really like cocktail days of thunder and yeah, of course you're going to take it. Of course you're going to take it. And then, you know, being married to an actress, to Nicole, well, to several actresses.

I mean, uh, there was, was there, there was a wife before Nicole Kim and I think. Mimi Rogers, who's also a great actress and good looking in her own right. Like, yeah, I'm sorry. A good looking guy is look, not every good looking actor has to be like Hugh Jackman and have been married before he became successful. Like, If you're on set with people, I don't know, it almost feels like, and I've felt this way now for some time, and I think we've talked about it, there was an article that was like, Tom Cruise is the last of the actors.

And it's like, you know, yeah, kind of. And he is, because I would equate Tom Cruise to, and it's interesting that it's me and you having this conversation, I wouldn't be surprised if Shah Rukh Khan made an Indian version of this film in terms of the visibility and success and all these things. Because it's like, look, he's literally the most successful American actor, period. Shah Rukh Khan is the most successful Indian actor. He just also happens to be the most successful actor in the world, period.

But that is a very heavy crown to wear. And I'm not sure Tom Cruise ever expected it to get to that point. Because one does not become an actor expecting for this to happen. But it's interesting that the person who it happened to has some self-awareness to make a movie like this, which is essentially digging at his own legacy and him digging at himself. It is like, it's an apt title digger.

He's digging him. He's getting digs at himself all the time, all the time. It's funny because I mean, yeah, I agree with you about Shah Rukh Khan, but then I'm like, Oh, you already did the fan, you know? And that's such a, here I am as the fan of this guy who looks like me, who basically is me. And I love that that was so meta back then.

I mean, it's very JCVD, right? I really like JCVD. And that was where you're just like, oh, wow, this guy can actually act. And this is really well done. And you kind of were hoping for another JCVD or something super high caliber after that.

And then it just kind of fell off and Did a bunch of shitty movies. I mean, I respect Jean-Claude Van Damme so much more after a film like that. And I'm hoping that... And I don't see it. I was hoping maybe people would respect Tom Cruise more for a movie like this.

But again, I think this is where the knives are out and half of the headlines are just about how poorly this movie did at the box office. And people are just yawning. yucking it up. They're just like, oh my God, you know, this, this movie from 2019 outperformed it. Well, I'm sorry, but that movie from 2019, which was for a long time, the number one box office in the world. There's not a lot.

It's a juggernaut right now, and there's not a lot that's out there in October, September that is going to be able to beat Avengers Endgame two weekends in a row, especially a $ 125 million art film. And that could be a critique of this and be like, this is way too fucking expensive. I think it is, but so what? Yeah, exactly. Somebody paid for it.

It's not my money. Great. This looks fantastic. You get those great things at the end with the oil derrick, and it's all the plastic, the artificial sea and everything. It's so good.

And I love his little dream sequence at the end where he thinks that the larder is completely full, that he's bought his own bullshit so much that he thinks he's Jesus fucking Christ and can call on the Lord to bring all this food back. I honestly thought we were going to see people eating the president. That's really what I thought when he was in that freezer. Well, I mean, again, they didn't go full metaphor. They went about two thirds of the way there.

There is restraint. You know, Dr. Perlmutter and I, who you finally had the opportunity to podcast with last week, we talk about on required viewing the things that the movie does that are successful. But we also talk about the things that the movie doesn't do that are important to not do because they often kind of gild the lily, as it were. And I'm not saying there's a perfect movie, but I think that would have been a step too far, just like a note too far.

Because again, it's like this movie is because it's a stage play. And because like you said early on, it's like the world's most, the world's most well done stage play to the point where it's you know the camera is moving through these environments and stuff and i just perceive that as like again the fantastical realism of playing out what's on the stage in the head of the actor further but again it's like really we're just narrowed down to like interacting with these three people on this stage or whatever these kind of more advanced sets are and we know that plays in our time now can be super advanced we i've seen some crazy shit as i'm sure you have you know i saw spider-man in new york city that was wild enough i'm good uh i.

Mean they they almost are filming these on like a volume you know but that's how good some of this looks right yeah and to see the rotating stage and it's like oh well And there is probably in the world, a stage play that is somewhat as advanced as this. And I might have people yelling at the radio right now and just being like, Hey, no, I saw this play and they had these rotating stages and then we're able to do this and that the other thing. And it's just. Yeah, the verisimilitude of this. But yeah, again, it's the camera inside, close up, close up, medium shot.

You don't get that with the stage play. And then it pulls away though. And it's like, oh, this was on a stage, right? It's like, I love that. Again, it's like, it's, you said it, like, it doesn't have to be this expensive of a movie, but because it is an expensive movie, they're able to do so much more with it.

But this really is at times like just a stage. There's not any like big action. And it is a stage play because it's literally a stage play. Like, Yes, it isn't a stage play and they have all this stuff going on, but they are also doing things intentionally to make it reflect the unreality of things. Again, I think Bo is Afraid is a very good comparison to this film, not in terms of subject matter, but maybe in terms of subject matter.

I mean, Bo is Afraid is a story about a man with anxiety having, again, like a nervous breakdown and kind of the interior monologue of that. And this movie gets to that point, but there is some like unreality in that movie that Ari Aster really does a good job with. And I think that in Iran too, does a great job with the unreality at the end of this film too, when they're on the oil rig, which just it's, it becomes kind of like a whore. I mean, it's like, it's, it's horrifying. That's for sure.

It's what was that? Uh, golden triangle or something, uh, with Woody Harrelson to where it was like all the rich people on the boat. I was thinking of that while I was watching this. Oh yeah. Okay.

Yeah. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. It's, I can't remember the name of the movie. It's, it's, it's very, again, like it's very, like we are now in an oil rig with Tom Cruise and he's going nuts and all these people are here with him and they're isolated.

And then he, you know, he throws himself into the ocean and the audience applauds and it's like, right, this is a play. I'm like, this is, this is, and I think in a rot to, in an interview was talking about it. He's like, this film is ultimately a, it's like amusing on trauma and like collective trauma and like, We as society moving through trauma together. And look, to speak to the Donald Trump of this whole thing and to the I think the the world that this exists in and the world that we exist in, there will come a time when people like this are gone and we can applaud that moment. But at the end of the day, like we're applauding a moment that it ultimately has no bearing on anything because the damage has been done.

And what we're applauding is empty. And that's the thing that I love about this movie is at the end of the film, it's like all these people are applauding and they're getting this kind of moment of like restitution. It's just like, you know, again, you can feel it because he throws himself into the water and they linger on him drowning. And the audience, the moment he kills himself, the audience is cheering. There is no sadness for Digger Rockwell killing himself.

And then it's like, oh, but by the way, you have to go back out into this world where everybody has to wear these fucking face masks and can't breathe because Digger Rockwell fucked the world. That last five minutes of this movie really hits. And I really like that we get to leave the theater. Yeah. And that for me was.

Like to see what the real world is. I mean, that was for me, the best parts of the Birdman were when we were outside of the theater. here you have something very similar it feels you feel much more alive when you get out of that theater but then you see just how shit everything is and just that the wall with the all the cars and the guy who's standing guard there and i'm just like wow this this looks amazing like and just how bad everything looks you really just feel for all these people and then i I know it's a little much, but I like that the movie actually ends with the same warning that the audience in the theater got. I thought it could have been too much, but I was like, okay, this works for me.

I like that we are now in this world. He's hitting it on the head a little much, but I was like, okay, I'm okay with this one. Well, and the question that I have, you know, because we see we see at the end of the film, it says the 25th anniversary of the cult classic. Right. So this is 25 years further than the than than the original version of this, which, again, maybe starred Curtis Marks and maybe didn't.

But the question that I have is none of this like, you know, lore bullshit. It's just how long ago did this happen? Right. How long has it been since the world was destroyed? Because we're led to believe that it's like, oh, this just by us, the audience were meant to perceive that this just happened yesterday.

And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. This did not just happen yesterday. This just happened. This could have happened a hundred years ago. Who even knows?

Right. Right. Well, there is the the nephew. There is the Jesse Plemons character. That's true.

That is I guess that would. But we don't know how old. Exactly. And it is odd to me, because I think it's the same kid playing the nephew when he's playing with the cat, and then they have the five-year jump. And I think it's the same kid that's the nephew on the oil derrick.

Well, it would make sense, given the actor. It would, but I was like, five years at that age, they probably should have got a different Yeah, I know, but they probably should have had a different actor. But yes, so that's the only. Thing that ties us. I'm just saying it makes sense inside of the narrative.

Inside of the play. Yes, there you go. Right. Yeah, which, again, what did I just do? I forget that it's a play, even though we do have the very pointed ending.

And I like when they will suddenly shift. And you see the wires, you know, or like you see the clouds moving outside and you see the mechanics of, you know, there's no fucking way that this is what actually sold it. But it's kind of like, it almost reminded me of that shot in Barbie. And you know exactly what shot I'm talking about when I say that, just that whole artificial world that she's going through and you see the wheels turning and everything. And it's just like, this is so great.

That's what those moments in here, like when you see the bombing of Gremlin Nova and and then you see the sticks on top of the planes i'm just like i like when he does that when he will just pull it back for a second and remind you that you're watching a play but not enough that it it doesn't ever feel like i'm being dragged out or like shocked into something because that for me is the one of the worst feelings where you're just like you know oh gosh i'm watching this i'm not watching that. It's the only the first one is the only one it's the which it You don't need to do it any more than once. Exactly. And the other changes, like I mentioned before we started talking spoilers, I mentioned the hole in the ceiling.

And that's when you're just like, what the fuck is going on? Why is there a hole in the ceiling in this nice hotel that they're in? And then you're like, oh, you idiot. It's because we're in a play. But then you have to take it one step further and go, we're in a play after the apocalypse.

And so... you were lucky to have a ceiling at all and then you think back to the all the water dripping and also I love that the sound of the water and the buckets and all that kind of stuff is the soundtrack and you've heard those buckets already like in that opening when he's just walking through and getting ready for the day that sound mix is fucking fantastic I love what they're doing with music because again it reminds me of the birdman thing with all of the percussion it's very similar there's a lot of percussion to this but it's almost all natural noises i really i want to dig in pun intended into the composer and find out a little bit more about what he was doing with this because i think it's fantastic and i'm sorry to say he it could have been she or they um but yeah i don't know who did the music for this but.

Cosmo sheldrake what a name Cosmo Sheldrake. My parents didn't name you creatively enough. What's your real name? What's your real name? Christopher...

Oh, see, his name is Cosmo Christopher Sheldrake. Man, my parents really screwed up. They should have given me a name like that. Like, I don't know, Nebula or Galaxian or, you know. I don't see that he's done movies before.

It's all... Cosmo Sheldrake, The Moss, Live at the Village, Cosmo Sheldrake This. I mean, this is, okay, I guess there are some. Bear McCreary, though, like an established musician who you just talked to on our podcast of power that's come back that we're doing. it's a, it's, it's nice to see directors working with just like musician. You know, uh, that feels like an in your auto thing though, too.

Yeah. I mean, it's a very, like, it's a very now director thing. I was going to say like David Gordon green did that with John Carpenter's son, that same thing on those Halloween movies. It's like, I want to work with a musician as opposed to just like a, you know, a composer, you know, I don't want to, you know, Chris Nolan is keeping Hans Zimmer busy. We're, we're sure.

Right. So, yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's, it's going to know if I guess, right. I mean, I love that somebody like Sergio Leone would work with Morricone and be like, no, write the music first, and then I'm going to play it and have the actors act to the music. And it's like, yeah, why can't we do that more often?

But instead, it's like, well, we did have this guy, and then we fired him two weeks before the release and threw away everything that he did. I mean, my copy of Drive still has Angelo Badalamente's name on it even though it's not his score like it was that last minute that the credits were done and he still was the the composer listed and then they had to switch it out at the last moment for whoever it was junkie xl or i don't know who ended up doing the the music for it after that but i'm just like wow this is a last minute thing so the actors no way could they act to that music you know it's it's it's amazing and so yeah i love a good symbiotic relationship with a composer. I'm trying to remember.

I just watched something where it was like Jerry Goldsmith was originally doing the music for this and then they just they changed it. And I was like, yeah, what was I? I don't remember something I just watched where it was just like I think was maybe timeline. I think is what it was. You know, that Michael Crichton film that.

Everyone was a bad one. Hey, now, I was Butler that one and Paul Walker in the same film. Oh, so much personality. Before they became famous. Hey, Gerard Butler is a good actor.

Come on. Gerard Butler is good, though, of course, my favorite role of his is in Reign of Fire. Oh, man, we need to do that movie together, man. We do. I've been trying to get a hold.

I saw that fucking movie in theaters. Who's the guy that did it? Rob Bowman? Is that right? Is that who it is?

Is it the guy who did the third Mummy movie? No, I'm talking about the, well, yeah, did he do the third Mummy movie? I think so. But yeah. Was he the one who did that movie with like Jamie Foxx and Jessica Biel where they're fighting the sentient airplane?

Oh, got stealth, right? No, maybe that's not him. Oh, that's a different one. You're right. No, Rob Bowman is the guy who directed the X-Files movie.

That's what it is. There you go. Yeah. So yeah, I've been trying to get a hold of him for years because I'm like, yeah, let's talk about Reign of Fire, dude. Like, I'm sure people shit all over that movie, but I fucking love it.

I fucking love that movie. And by the way, Rob Bowman directed Elektra, which got mentioned, like, what, two years ago in those Deadpool movies? And there's a distinct possibility that it gets mentioned again this year, later this year? Oh, I'm sure, yeah. I mean, now that Channing Tatum has officially taken the role of Gambit, and I'm like, that was a throwaway joke from Deadpool Wolverine, and now it's canon.

Okay, okay. Okay, sure. Well, canon for as long as the MCU wants it to be. Right, until the multiverse collapses. Collapses, and then everybody's recast.

And that's, you know what, I want to mention that, because that's the thing, like, Tom Cruise, the movies that he makes tend to be films that compete with that kind of film. Right. And with Endgame. And I don't know what. I think he's in the Marvel Universe.

Is he? No, he's not. He was just in the Dark Universe. And I think that was it. Like, he is his own franchise.

Yeah, he was in the movie. The Dark Universe never really existed, Mike. Wow. That was you hallucinating. You hallucinated.

It was a hallucination. Universal disavows any knowledge of dark universe. It's so funny. And then they basically built their park and stuff. All of those new rides that they're doing are all dark universe shit.

Well, they're sort of their universal monsters now are their own connected thing. And it's like, oh, because it didn't work when you cast other people. Who cares, right? Universal is just... Universal, like all these other big studios, is probably just going to end up being, I guess, owned by Tom Cruise in the end or whatever Skydance is.

Isn't that the name of his production company? Or there's that a-hole that's merging the Paramount and Warner Brothers, right? Trump's friend? Yeah. Or Zaslav.

Yeah. Or Zaslav. Yeah. I have no problem with a movie like this. I just have a problem with a movie like this being advertised like this because it, to me, strikes an issue at the core of advertising a film incorrectly and missing the audience who should be watching it.

Just like Edge of Tomorrow. I mean, that's an amazing movie. And that movie, they couldn't even decide on the fucking title for that movie. Right, right. It has like, what, two titles at least?

Live, Die, Repeat, I think is at least one of the titles, or Kill, Die, Repeat, and then Edge of Tomorrow, which, by the way, neither of the titles are good. And I know one of those is the original title of the original manga it's based on, but I don't care. Those are both terrible titles. Like, genuinely not great. So maybe roll again.

Third one. Yeah, yeah, none of them were good. And then they came out with that anime version of Must, what was it called? All I Do Is Kill? kill and kill again kill. Kill kill kill some more killer mommy.

Right yeah mommy may I go out and kill. Tonight any names are better than the name that they ultimately gave it because edge of tomorrow doesn't even make any sense all you need is kill live die repeat and yeah all you need is kill is the original. Name yeah It was also marketed as. Live, Die, Repeat, colon, Edge of Tomorrow. So the film technically had three names.

Because I think they did a re-release under that new title. Because that was on the poster, and it was like the poster catchphrase became the movie title. I don't know. I'm sure that that's happened before, but I would be hard-pressed to think of that. I bet you that a movie sequel has been named after the tagline on the previous poster but I can't think of one where it's just like oh yeah we're gonna rename the movie after the tagline on the poster that's yeah.

Man that's and that's again like to go back to the Tom Cruise of it all like that movie's so good because he's in it because him and Emily Blunt who I'm personally not a huge fan of her I like her a lot she's fine like it's whatever like she's just a lot of the stuff I've seen her in has been more like disclosure day where I'm like okay like you're fine yeah But she's good in that. Her and Tom Cruise have great chemistry. That's the thing. Tom Cruise is a very charismatic actor. And that's not a bad thing.

But I think actors who are successful and charismatic tend to be lightning rods for all kinds of people's opinions. I mean, there are plenty of actors working in Hollywood that no one gives a shit about. And those actors are probably okay with that being the case, is my point. They like being able to go out to a restaurant, eat lunch, and not be hounded by people. Maybe someone comes up to them and says, oh, I loved you in... x y or z but they're not unable to leave without someone like jumping all.

Over right exactly yeah it's not like poor ben affleck who can't enjoy a cup of dunkin donuts without having somebody make a meme out of it you know or have a cigarette outside kind of thing it's like okay you know all right I. Don't blame Tom Cruise for having that reaction to his life because I don't live his life and I don't know what it's like to be that famous. And it's not like he did or didn't ask to be that famous. He's just that good at what he does. He is a genuinely talented actor.

To me, he's like Tom Hanks. It's like Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks are kind of 1A and 1B in terms of male American actors that are well-known across the globe. You'll notice I didn't mention Schwarzenegger or Stallone or some of those actors like They're kind of in their own class of thing. But Tom Cruise and Tom Hanks, I think, have transcended any boundary genre or anything else. And Tom Hanks just doesn't have any of the, you know, has none of the, quote, problematic nature, unquote, of Tom Cruise.

That's not what his son would say. That's not what his redneck son would say. He was on Little St. James Island. Is that what he was saying?

Yeah. Like he's hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein. Sure. Okay. I mean, you got like Colin Hanks, who just seems like the most genuinely nice guy.

Honestly, projects that are really cool. Like that documentary about tower records and stuff. And then you've got, yeah. Like, the redneck son is just like, he got COVID. He should have taken horse pace.

You know, yeah, dude, Tom Hanks is redneck son is not Tom Hanks is redneck son. Sounds like the name of a song by like a metal band. Like Tom Hanks is red. We're going to play that next. Cause he's a fucking nut ball, which is fine.

Like, you know what? Like I, I, I know plenty of people who have nice family members and nut ball family members and the parents are fine, but the kids are all fucked up. Like, I don't know if Tom Hanks is a fucked up guy. He might be. But you know what?

It might be one of those Jimmy Savile things. Yeah. Hopefully after he passes away. The Tom Hanks story. We find out that this beloved star, he was known as a crossdresser in his very first television role.

30 years from now. Before he worshipped Satan and maces and monsters. Now they have to suddenly twist it. He put this black man to death in the green mile. But here's the thing.

People would like during like Jim will fix it. Like they would never have guessed that the guy that was like, Oh, I'm just an every man. I'm just raping kids. Like, I mean, yeah, he wasn't saying that, but that's what he was fucking doing. So it's, you know, again, Tom Cruise, I don't think he's doing that anymore than Tom Hanks is.

It's just when you're that level and caliber of actor, it's, it's hard to avoid being a lightning rod. And I think that may be the thing for me that makes me think that the character that Tom Cruise is playing in this movie is not necessarily meant to be him, is Tom Cruise does... What the fuck movie do we... Tom Cruise doesn't work on stage. Right, right.

He would never lower himself to something like that. Exactly. In like the slums of whatever fucking city this is supposed to be in. Cause that's the other thing. It's like, where is this being put on?

It looks like it's being put on off Broadway. Like this world is so fucked up. And here's this like little theater troupe putting on this thing. I'm like, yes, it's impressive by the scale of what they're doing. But also at the same time, it's like, what a waste of time and energy in this world.

But got to keep people entertained, I guess. Even as the buildings burn down, people still got to be entertained. They want to see the guy who ruined the world die. I think we will. From your mouth.

Yeah, we should do an Edge of Tomorrow episode one of these days because I mean, it goes through the entire hero's journey in the course of a day. You know, I love that. Such a good movie. Such a great movie. Yep.

But yeah, like I said, I don't think I appreciated this movie nearly as much as I did until we had this conversation. I was not necessarily prepared to bag on this. I was basically prepared to dam it with faint praise. And that was about it. But now after having this talk, I'm just like, yeah, okay, I can get into this.

You know, I, I mentioned like, oh, Tom Cruise might win an Oscar for this. If Tom Cruise were to win an Oscar for this, it would be the Academy finally acknowledging like we can give someone an Oscar for having a role that's fun and like, like entertaining. And it doesn't just have to be like, I'm Rami Malek and I'm playing Freddie Mercury. Like, oh, fuck you. Like, who cares?

Like, Like this, this is the way you do something like this. If you're going to approach a real person, which is don't be obvious about it. I mean, to go back to the Kubrick of it all, it is crazy to me that this film is being compared to Dr. Strangelove, which is a film that Stanley Kubrick directed and Stanley Kubrick worked with Tom Cruise. And Tom Cruise was one of the few, like he's one of the few actors still working.

That's like a con that worked with Kubrick. Like there are not a lot of actors working that worked with Kubrick, especially contemporary actors. Like that's a very short list of people. in terms of people of Tom Cruise's caliber. It's like him, Nicole Kidman, handful of other people. But Kubrick wasn't pumping out films.

And if you look at Ina Ratu, neither is he. It's been, like, what? Birdman was only three films ago or four films ago. It's like, it's not, he has a filmography. Yeah.

Birdman was four movies ago and that was 2014. He's made three movies since 2014. That is a very low number, but that's because he's, I think genuinely an auteur. I think in a rot to is an auteur and auteur made this movie. I, this is one of these times where I'm like, if this movie won awards, I would not be disappointed.

I'd be like, okay, like, sure. I vibe with that. Like this movie is self-aware enough. And again, I think if you had cast anybody other than Tom Cruise, this movie doesn't work. Right.

Genuinely, like this movie only really works because you have it's like Tropic Thunder. If Tropic Thunder with Tom Cruise wasn't in Tropic Thunder, I don't know how funny the Ben Stiller of it all would be. Right. Right. I am very curious if if when it comes time for the Oscar ceremony, what part of the ceremony is it going to be in?

Is it going to be in the, here's the nomination for Tom Cruise, or is it going to be in the opening monologue talking about what a big dud this was and how they swung big and missed terribly? Because I don't genuinely know. You know, we're talking about this two days after it came out. There wasn't a whole lot of like, you know, repress for this kind of thing like I just started to hear on Wednesday oh people don't like this movie I'm curious where it's going to be in a few months when it comes time to cast those ballots are people going to think of it as fondly as we're talking about it or are people just going to be like oh yeah way way too big they fucked up they shouldn't have done this Tom Cruise sucks.

Well, I was going to ask you something similar because I mean, like, I think we've come kind of like all the way around the bend on this movie, but I think it's an interesting point of kind of note here, something else we talked about earlier this year in March, which feels like a lifetime ago. We talked about another film that was a film by a Quote, auteur, unquote. I'm not going to give her that. Not because I don't think she is one, but I don't think she deserves to be called that after having made one movie, The Bride. Right.

That movie was $ 100 million and made $ 20 million. That movie stunk. On ice. And I don't know. And like, it didn't stink because, Oh, it's a woman or blah, blah, blah, whatever.

No, that shit. It's not a good movie. It's really heavy handed with its imagery and its messaging and just, and it's also excessive. Like that's the thing about this movie. I, I don't see any of this movie as excessive.

Like it's all this movie is very intentional. The bride could take some notes from trying to do kind of a movie within a movie type thing or a period piece type thing. Like this is how you do that without being excessive. This movie, like I think navigated what the bride couldn't do. But the problem is this, the success of this movie is the same.

It's actually worse than the bride. This movie made less money based on the amount of money that was spent. On it publicly. You know, The Bride had half the budget of this movie. So I don't know.

I was wondering that as well. Like, will that be like when Conan O'Brien takes the stage like, oh, digger, or whatever, like shows up on stage with like a shovel or shovel. Yeah, exactly. Digging for the money that the movie made. A hard hat, yeah.

Yeah, like that fucking scene in Vegas Vacation. Oh, we're out here, you buying coffee. Like, it'll be something like that. Like, we're looking for the money that the movie made. I wouldn't be surprised, or is it like this movie has turned it around because it found its audience after the fact?

Problem is, six months from now ain't gonna be that time. That's going to be, you know, probably five years from now, 10 years from now, maybe less than that. But this is a movie that I think has longer legs than right now. And there are plenty of movies that come out and then everybody forgets about it by the end of the year. I don't think this is one of those.

I don't. But I don't, to your point, know where this is going to end up, because I think a movie like The Bride is going to be in that group of things that is like made fun of consistently and poked fun at. I'm still disappointed in myself that I spent money on that fucking movie to go see it. You spent movie on that money? I like movies.

We should be friends. I couldn't even keep it straight. I didn't leave Digger being like, I wasted my money. I left the bride going, I wasted my money. That's probably the highest transactional you know, kind of compliment I can give this movie is I don't feel like this movie wasted my money.

But by the sounds of it, a lot of people who went and saw it feel like their money and time were wasted. And I get it. But I also think that, like I said, the advertising did this film no favors. And if you, again, are selling it on it being a Tom Cruise movie, this is like the least Tom Cruise movie that he's done in a long time. But it's also the most Tom Cruise movie I can think of, frankly.

No, I think you're totally right. And yeah, this fits in with those challenging roles that we've talked about tonight. And I think that people tend to forget those and they tend to think about the hits and things that allowed him to do other things like a digger. Which is on them. Like that's on you.

Like the, if you only think of Mel Gibson as the guy who is in lethal weapon, like there's a lot of other things he's done and did that you could think about, or the guy in mad max, like it's what Tom Cruise is just the guy who was top gun and Ethan hunt. Like that's it. Like, yeah, he has a lot of other roles, like a lot, a lot of, and I mean, again, I don't, I don't know why people would leave minority report off that list. Like he's worked with goddamn everybody, Tom. I, yeah.

I don't know. I'm you know, it's one of those things where when we talk about like, you know, George Lucas or Steven Spielberg or even like, you know, some of those other kind of like Hollywood brat directors, it's like I wish that I could have one thing as successful as Star Wars, let alone Star Wars and Indiana Jones and Jaws. And it's like Tom Cruise is that same way. He's in that kind of hallowed names of people. That's like Tom Cruise has had a massive effect on pop culture.

Period. The man has. Not the roles, not the movies, the man. And that is not necessary. That is a hard, if not the hardest thing to attain in the entertainment industry anymore, is you being eminently successful for who you are, not for your accomplice.

Like, he's just Tom Cruise. Like, he's just... You know who he is? He's like Coca-Cola and McDonald's at this point. Like, it's just...

He's a brand. He's been so iconic from the beginning. I mean... I know you're way too young for this, but either you have seen this or you can believe that him sliding into the room in his socks and underwear and shirt with the sunglasses on and strutting around to Old Time Rock and Roll by Bob Seger, that was everywhere. People were parroting that from the jump.

That became this moment. And that was before fucking Top Gun, which boosted the... People's lives were changed because everyone was signing up to go to flight school after that. I mean, it's crazy the effect that he's had on pop culture from the beginning. I mean, people were railing about Legend when it came out.

Oh my God, this is such a horrible, horrible movie. It's like, no, not really. But I think even then it was because Tom Cruise is in this, we now hold it to this higher expectation. So from the beginning, this guy had this weight kind of around his neck, whether he wanted it or not, that he was this public figure to be either held up or ridiculed. Well, you asked about risky business and I have them sitting on my desk, but my Ray-Bans that I own, I own Ray-Bans, the exact kind that he has in risky business.

And I keep them on my floor. If you see me out in public and I don't have my hair up in a ponytail or a bun, I normally have my sunglasses on my head to keep my hair out of my face. And I had... On Facebook when I was in high school, after I watched Risky Business when I was in high school, I had that fucking picture of Tom Cruise doing that with the Ray-Bans because I was like, he's cool. I'm sorry.

He gets it. Maybe he's got his problems. I'm sure he does. And I've heard all the horror stories about Scientology and the things that he might have done. You know what?

Again, like if I leave all that at the door, not because I don't care, but because like, what the fuck do you want me to do about it, Frank? Like, well, that's what the movie says. Even the movie is even just like, what are you going to fucking do? Even if you could do anything like nothing, like nothing. So do you want to live or do you want to, do you want to live and not worry about it to some extent?

Or do you want to not live and worry about it all the time? And it's like, I, I'd like to, to be down the middle, not too far in either direction. And so many people just like, I won't do this now. I won't do that. I'm just like, you know what?

Whatever. Fine. You do you don't judge me for doing me. You hear the horror stories about Scientology. You hear the horror stories about maybe even Tom Cruise, but then you hear the stories, the really fucked up little stories.

Like, him and Simon Pegg, and they're in Dubai, and they're filming a scene, and they're in this car, and I think it's Tom Cruise turns on the heated seat that Simon Pegg was in, and then put a little piece of black tape over it so you couldn't tell that it was lit up, that the heated seat was on. Just little stupid shit like that. Or the thing that I always hear, which is, if you ever work with Tom Cruise... he will find out your birthday and you will get birthday cakes from him for the rest of your fucking life. And a cake that's supposedly like amazing. Oh yeah.

Some sort of like weird ass cake that it's like the Tom Cruise cake is what it's called. Right. I looked up the recipe. I had thought about making it a couple times. I'll give this that goddamn good.

Wow. And that's the thing about it. Like, again, like I don't give a shit about your fucking religion. I don't. And that's broadly like anybody, like, Unless you're pushing it on me, which that's the weird part.

Again, Tom Cruise, not pushing it on anybody. Like it's right. He is, as far as I'm concerned, be a Scientologist, but he's a better steward of Scientology than some people I know personally and their religious beliefs and them not shutting the fuck up about it. Like you want to hate him for his religion. Fine.

He honestly seems like the kind of guy who gives a shit about what he does and the people he works with. I remember, you know, We've never had one of those Tom Cruise freaks out on set things, but we have had that thing during the pandemic where Tom Cruise was like, we're not fucking around here. And it's like, you know what? I can get down with that because I think Tom Cruise likes to work and he likes working and acting. And if that shit wasn't being taken seriously, you weren't going to get to act and work because a set is full of people from all walks of life.

It's not just rich people making movies, dinguses. Like it's literally people that go and live in an apartment with four other people in L.A. or in where they film this in Pine Tree Studio. Yeah, Pine Tree, right? Is that what it's called? Pinewood.

Pinewood, yeah. So they filmed this in London. So in their flats, more apt. But like Tom Cruise, again, the stories I've heard seem to focus around Scientology, which, OK, that's his choice. All the other stuff, like you said, he seems like a pretty stand up guy.

Maybe we're just dick riding here, but I don't think that that's the I just I don't like if I if I if I come off as someone who's an apologist, that's fine. But I don't think you should have to apologize. Enjoying the most successful male movie star of the last 30 years is work like fuck. Come on. It's like apologizing for Marvel films like I'm a Marvel apologist.

Like you mean the movies that made a billion dollars? Yeah. Apologize, please. Like you're not supposed to like those movies. They're not good right now, but so what?

That doesn't mean they can't be good again. There was a time when I didn't like those movies, you know? Oh, did you go see Endgame? Went to see Endgame, yeah. And I cried more this time than I ever have at that movie.

And I get really emotional. I mean, when Peter Parker swings in, And Iron Man sees him. Oh, my God. I mean, it was just waterworks having Peter come back. So, yeah, I'm a sucker for that stuff.

And I'm supposed to feel bad, but I don't. So, no guilty pleasures. No guilty pleasures. Just pleasures. Just pleasures, yeah.

People who say guilty pleasures, you know what those people have? A lack of fun in their lives. They have guilt. Yeah, they have guilt. Like, I don't have guilt for watching a fucking movie, okay?

Exactly. I really don't. No, and. I will stand by Free Jack anytime. I know it's a horrible movie, but I love it.

I don't even preface things anymore. It's like, you know what? There are so many movies that people love that I'm like, that's a horrible movie, but I'm not going to be like, that's a horrible movie. I don't care. I like all kinds of things that other people don't like.

So what? Like whatever, man, it's yeah. That's. And that's the thing. Like with Tom Cruise, I'm like, I, I frankly, I don't care what your opinion is.

Anybody like you have your own opinion, but go watch this movie. And if you don't enjoy this movie, don't enjoy this movie on what it's asking you to do. Not because you don't like Tom Cruise. Like, If you don't want to watch this movie because you don't like Tom Cruise, I get that. But if you're at least amenable to the idea, this movie I don't think is any more or less offensive than any other actor, director-driven, auteur indie film.

If it wasn't Tom Cruise, this film would probably just go and be an indie film and who cares, you know? You know, the thing that I'm looking forward to is the two and a half hour, close to three hour conversation that we're going to have about Street Fighter. Oh, me too. Yeah. And I can't even imagine how long our Doomsday podcast is going to be.

Is that Doomsday, did you say? We're doing both? I mean, aren't we doing both? I kind of have to see both that weekend. We have to see both.

God in heaven. We're going to spend like six hours at a movie theater. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You saw a preview for Dune 3, a film that, by the way, I'd like to point this out.

I would not have fucking believed you if you had said, we're going to get a third Dune movie after seeing that second one. Not because it wasn't successful, not because it didn't make a shitload of money, but it's just like, okay, so now we're adapting. Now I'm like, and I have not shared this with you, but I'll share it here because people that listen to these episodes tend to also be the ones that listen to the stuff like Dune and Doomsday, the new stuff. I'm actually kind of excited for Dune 3. because that's not really been adapted in a big screen format anywhere else. And you know what?

Maybe they, maybe the evil noves like, Oh, so wait a second. Paul's not the good guy. Yeah, exactly. Which is like, finally, you know, it's like no shit guys. Right.

Right. And I think that's kind of why I prefer, uh, David Lynch is doing because he is the good guy in that movie. He never does become the bad guy. So there's no shades of gray there. It's like, okay, That's also Kyle McLaughlin.

Like, can that man do any wrong? Like, no, he's the internet. He's the internet's like weird grandpa now. Yeah. He's so endearing.

He's like, I have a podcast. He's, he's doing the podcast thing, right? He's like, I'm an old man who's trying to understand kids these days. So I have a podcast about it. Like how wholesome Kyle McLaughlin.

Nice. I think I just saw him. He's eating some chicken wings on hot ones or something. So God, Oh my good Lord. Has Tom Cruise done that yet?

Did he do that for this movie? Did he go eat chicken wings yet? Oh, he should. Is he doing the circuit? Is he too big?

Oh yeah. This camera, this camera, this camera. Chris, tell me when you're not here talking about Digger, what are you working on? Oh my God. Well, what am I working on?

I'm working on only the best audio that can be found over weirdingwaymedia.com where you and I, and so many other of our audio-obsessed friends talk about movies and TV and everything in between. I'm adding some TV stuff to my show, Feed the Culture Cast, because I like to call it my show's feed now, not so much my show, because now within my feed of the Culture Cast, there is required viewing, which I do with my friend, Dr. David Perlmutter of Texas Tech. He's a professor of communications and media over there. We talk about films and why you should watch them from a 360 degree perspective.

Mike was just on there talking about the Maltese Falcon. And then with my friend, Brian Renfro, who's also on our network, we do a show called Culture Meltdown, where we just... talk about whatever we want to in terms of movies or TV, possibly. But that can all be found on my feed, The Culture Cast. But more importantly, all the other shows that I'm not on, like Mike's show, The Projection Booth, which has been going for, going on 14 years now, I think, Mike? 15 and a half.

15 and a half, Jesus Christ. Almost old enough to drive in some state. If you have not listened to Mike's show, Listen to his show before my show because his show is, like so many people that movie podcast now, the reason I do my show because it is a movie podcast. And movie podcasts are not as big of a deal as you think. It's a rather small market.

And Mike's is the best movie podcast out there. If you're not listening to it, head on over to weirdingwaymedia.com where you can hear it along with a lot of great other shows like 80s TV Ladies, like Never Tell Me the Odds, which is a Harrison Ford podcast that Mike and I are doing with our friend Richard Haddam. He's finally part of the network. We stole him away even for a little while. And, uh, yeah, that show starts in September.

So, uh, I guess, no, I guess that show starts what soon? No. Now? When? November?

November. Hmm. Maybe. I'm editing this. So I'll remember.

Um, okay. And yeah, no later this year, you'll be able to hear us talking about Harrison Ford with never tell me the odds, which is our continuation of our Patreon exclusive show ranking on bond, which you can still find at my Patreon, patreon.com slash culture cast and Mike's Patreon, patreon.com slash projection booth. That's where you can go to kick some money our way. You can hear ranking on bond and its entirety, but more importantly, you're supporting us, which helps us out and allows us to continue to do this. Not that we're going to stop because we don't make money.

But, you know, every dollar helps us offset the cost of going to see Digger in theaters. Apparently it's six dollars. We're Mike. Nah, nah, nah, nah. Perfect.

Cool. That was a good one. I did not expect to talk.