S1E4 — Meadowlands

We are the Kway Media. Hello, everyone, and welcome to what? No fucking zini? Another, like you say on our Shabby Detective, yet another Sopranos podcast. Not hosted by anyone who's been on the show, though.

Well, I think we both could have fit in somewhere. Probably as people just getting murdered or on the street. People say I dress like Tony Soprano sometimes. I mean, some of those shirts are pretty great. I do love some of his shirts.

They're quite the style choice, as one might say. Yeah. They should have come out with the whole fashion line, the Sopranos line, you know? Yeah. Oh, and the women's clothing is even better.

Some of the women in this show are hilariously dressed. I am your host, Chris Stashio, and I'm joined by the other host of this show, all the way from the projection booth. He is the consigliere of this podcast. You're a friend of mine, Mike White. Listen to me, you Irish, you Mick Kraut.

Yeah. Mick Kraut? Yes. That's a sandwich at McDonald's, isn't it? The Mick Kraut, boy.

Only available in Germany, I'm saying. Yeah. Delicious. Yeah. On this episode of What No Fuckin' ZD, we're going to be taking a look at the first season's fourth episode titled Meadowlands.

So that episode aired in January of 1999, the last day of January, January 31st, 1999. And the episode focuses on the fallout from the previous episode where Brendan gets murdered. Christopher shits his pants and well Tony Soprano's son I guess didn't realize what his dad did and he's about to find out in one of the funniest ways possible and we also get to see Tony Soprano's let's just say unique way of using a stapler. uh mike what did you think of the fourth episode of the sopranos it's. Out there man this is uh i'm worried a little bit about tony he's having a bit of a break here uh but yeah uh definitely it moves the story along um but yeah there's some weird shit in here just thinking about him in dr melfi's office and coming out and seeing his son and coming out and seeing Um, uh, little Steven having sex and Polly Walnut's just glaring at him while he's reading a Chinese newspaper.

I was like, what are we doing here? It took me a little while to realize that he was losing touch with it until his mother, uh, is in the, uh, the, the psychiatrist chair. Oh, that was quite a revelation. Yeah. So, what I find funny, and, like, this is the first time this has happened in the show.

It will not be the last time. If anything, I forgot that the show kind of gets to this point this quickly, which is we're starting already to kind of involve ourselves in the subconscious of Tony Soprano and, like, the dreams of Tony Soprano and... Like delving into his mind and being passengers in his mind. And this is that first moment. And I forgot that it's in the fourth episode of the show.

I really remember it kind of taking place towards the end of the first season. But nope, it's right here. And we're already in Tony Soprano dream sequence land. And it opens the episode. So we're thrown right into it.

We're thrown right into it in a way that the show, if a memory serves me right, I'm not sure they do that a lot. moving forward where they're like, you don't know that it's a dream. I think moving forward, it's like a lot more obvious because it's not about tricking you. It's about using it as an opportunity to kind of investigate and take a look at Tony Soprano's inner mind, which comes back a lot. I mean, again, like some of the things that we will be seeing a lot of are here again in this episode. So yeah, we had that whole thing with the painting and it felt like that.

But 10 times as much. Right. This is really intense stuff. And I was curious, too, because towards the beginning of this, when we do find out that it is a dream sequence, we have the whole, like, oh, waking up in bed kind of thing. It looks like he's with his mistress, but then when he comes out in the living room, his son's out there playing video games.

Does. How does that work? I think he he I think he he came home is what it is. Oh, OK. Yeah.

Because his mistress are like always somewhere else in like a hotel or on the boat. So, yeah, I do like that scene with his son, though, because him and the actor who plays his son have really good chemistry. Robert Eiler, they have great chemistry together, him and James Gandolfini. And that's one of the things I've always liked about this show is that the younger characters, so I would say starting now the kid characters on the show, never feel like precocious little shitheads, which for me is always a problem in media of any sort because children characters tend to be shitter kids or precocious little know-it-all shits that are just almost narrative-breaking in a way, but these two are written really smartly in a way that I don't know if I would believe Robert Eiler's character not realizing who his dad is, but I guess it's no different than if you were the son or daughter of a Beyoncé or... a Tom Cruise, there is a while where you as the child of that person may not realize in the context of the greater scheme of things who your parent is.

Right, right. Yeah, it took me years to find out that my dad was a mafioso. I thought you were going to say that your dad was the Zodiac killer. Yeah, I've written 12 books about it. I'll freely tell you, not only was he the Zodiac, but I think some of those Bundy cases, I think those were my dad's as well.

Oh, what about Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman? Was that him as well? Yes, them too. Them too. Oh, okay.

If he did it. Lindbergh, baby. Yeah, the whole thing. If he did it. Oh, he did it.

Oh, he did. But I do think it's kind of an interesting C-plot and the way that they kind of mine it with the kid at school's dad clearly telling him, like, do not fuck with this person because I do not want his father to come in, I guess. Kill me? I mean, I don't think Tony Soprano would go and kill the father of some kid who's given his kid a hard time at school. But I like that idea that, you know, hey, how you doing?

Oh, I'm good. I'm leaving. Whatever I'm doing, just leave me alone. Yeah, you don't see that outside. angle too much because this is you know we keep talking about goodfellas this is that insulated life that they were talking about you know you just have those friends that are also mobbed up but you don't get the outside view of it and i like this idea of yeah it reminded me it was very true to life as far as the sun goes because it feels like he and this other kid that he keeps fucking around with them with the beeper and stuff with the beeper with the beeper beeper yeah it feels like that feels very much like your friend has moved on. And like, just that there's the height difference and stuff.

It feels like maybe he matured sooner than the other kid because, you know, Tony's son is about the same size as, as his other little shit friend. I mean, the guy who he's antagonizing is definitely taller. And it feels like that whole, you know, I've moved on or like I went to junior high before you went, you know, like a year before, uh, And so we're not friends anymore because there's always that weird moment when, you know, the people that you thought were your friends in elementary school, they move into a different social circle or something and you're just like, okay, what just happened? Right. And that's the thing, like, again, like, I really like the character of A.J.

Soprano in these early scenes. I actually like him throughout most of the show because, again, he feels like a well-thought-out character who, again, like, he doesn't... This is the beginning of his journey as a character. Like, this episode is where we start to see, like, he realizes kind of who he is and things will start to change. I mean, I love that Meadow is like, don't you know?

Don't you know? I love her so much. She's just like, don't you know who our dad is? Right. No.

And the fact that there's this like fake ass website that they show us, that looks like geo cities circa 1999. Yes. I love it. I love all of the like old technology in the show, because again, it's like 1999. And the thing with the beeper, like, Oh, for fuck's sake.

It's so great though. Yeah. I, I, Somebody should have done a study as far as fake versions of search engines, because I mean, right. Yeah. To your point, this is around the time that Google is really coming into its own.

I was still using hot bot at the time. I don't even think that exists anymore. Hot bot. Yeah. Yeah.

I was up there, man. And it was great because you could actually search code. You could type in, you know, do a quote and write your actual HTML and it would find that html for you which was very good in my case but yeah i would love to know all of the different fake versions of websites just because that's always such a treat i mean this was i can't remember when the net came out but it feels like it was probably right around this time as well that is such a treasure trove of shitty graphics and just fake websites and Oh, well, I can order a pizza with my computer. Ooh, you know, people were so excited by that. That'll come true one of these days.

So the URL that they use is megamob.com. What? The mob. Megamob. Megamob.com is the name of the website that they go to to see the Tony Soprano pictures, I guess, juxtaposed against like real people, which is the funny part because there's like a picture of John Gotti on there too.

Yeah. We were talking about that either last episode or episode before this whole like, what is happening in the mob at this time in real life. And yeah, it really feels like some of these references are just like pulled right out of the headlines. Right. But all of that to say, there's kind of some big things that happened in this episode, other than the Robert Eiler character finding out his dad is in fact a mobster.

We get introduced to John Heard's Emmy award-winning character for the show, Vic McCasey in The Dirty Cop. It made me so sad to see John Hurd. I know, right? Ah, he was such a nice guy. I interviewed him once and he was so down on himself.

Like just talking about how he's getting old and fat and all this. I'm just like, come on, Mr. Hurd, like buck up little camper. And I see him in this and he's looking pretty spry and pretty slim. And I'm just like, yeah, this is the John Hurd.

This is the stuff. And I was so surprised to see him show up. He's great in this show. So he actually didn't win the Emmy. He was only nominated for it.

But he's nominated for this character that he will play in just, I believe, the first season of the show. But he is really good in this show. And he's a he's again, like you've already mentioned, we really haven't gotten to see a lot of the outside interactions, the non mob people, the non mobbed up people. And he is one of those first people that we get introduced to. I mean, there's there's already who we've already been introduced to.

But this guy is more seemingly in the employ of Tony, because, again, I mean, he talks about the big, you know, what about the big take the big off? So, like, I love his character because, again, like you're starting to see the circle of Tony and what he's surrounding himself with and who he has in his back pocket, because that's the other thing. I mean, you know. To go back to something like The Godfather with Marlon Brando talking about, you know. I got all these people in my back pocket.

Here we go. We're finally starting to see it. And there will be more of these kinds of characters introduced. But I think it's smart that they have John Heard be kind of the first big guest of the show because this is the first big guest character in the show. And he is fantastic.

He plays a downtrodden police officer perfectly and also like just slightly unhinged as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And that's what I really liked about that character. I was like, I couldn't figure out exactly where he was coming from.

And I'm like, How beholden to Tony is he? Yeah. And he feels just a little out there. Yeah. And, and again, like he, he is at Tony's kind of beck and call clearly because of implied debts to Tony, like implied financial debts to Tony through, I'm assuming because, and this is something else that we'll see a couple of times throughout the show, degenerate gamblers.

Yeah. uh, making their appearance in the show. And that's the thing. I mean, in good fellas, there's not a lot of that. That's more of a casino thing. Oh yeah.

Yeah. That's like the entire like subplot of casino in a lot of ways is the degenerate gamblers. Uh, so I like that again, like we're also getting to see like, these are the people that are involving themselves with the mob. And it's like everyday people that once you're in with the mob, like you're good fucking luck. Like you're fucked pretty much like, and that's, I mean, we don't see that with John Heard's character so much, but we will with other characters.

He seems more like a willing participant, given how far he goes with Dr. Melfi's date. Oh, God. Well, yeah, we've kind of seen that with the Orthodox Jews. Right.

Just this whole don't make this deal with the devil, the whole golem thing. Was that just last episode? Yeah. Wow. The show moves along, man.

Like it's it's like there's a it always feels like there's a lot going on in like that. Maybe it's not we're seeing in between episodes, but they're like referencing. And I appreciate that about the show because, again, it does feel like a really lived in world already only four episodes in. like the world feels very well realized. And I, it's not that I forgot that, but I just always kind of forget how much stuff has already, like is already happening in these first four episodes. It feels like the show is just, a lot of stuff is happening in a way that reminds me again of good fellas.

Cause good fellas is outside of it being a fantastic movie. It has like 300 scenes. Like it's, it's an actual like fucking nightmare of a movie to make because of the been the vignetness of the movie. And the Sopranos kind of has that same, like, quick moving pace like there's a lot always happening it's not just you know there are plenty of tv shows that i've seen where it's characters sitting in a room talking to each other for 10 minutes which is fine and the sopranos does have that but the sopranos also is moving constantly with a lot of characters kind of in and out of the door even if it's just for one scene in the. Episode one i have to say too that this episode looks really good the lighting is really good when he goes to visit his mother you really feel like you're in that space It does not feel like it's a set.

It feels like you're in the real world and just some of the shadows on her, the shadows on him. He's wearing this like darker shirt and everything. And you really get to see just the effort that they're putting into this. So that also helps as far as elevating this to something else. You've got the complexity of the plot seen outside of their small circle in this one. meaning our John Heard character, but just also realizing that this was very well put together technically.

Yeah, Alex Sakharov's cinematography in this show is like, it is such a steady hand, and the show feels like a movie. In a lot of ways, and this is something that I felt since I watched the show the first time, it honestly just feels like a movie split up into 86 segments. because the story just flows so seamlessly between episodes. And there are only a couple moments in the show where it kind of feels a little whiplash tonally to kind of get back to where we were, and we're far from those moments. But right now, this narrative's just going, and it just feels like we're just coming back into it. It's not really a TV show the way TV shows in 1999 were being done, which is why this is such an important show.

Because this does just feel like a movie, like the way it's shot. Like you said, it looks so good. It looks as good as any movie being made in 1999. Oh, yeah. And like 1999, the year of 1999 for cinema has books written about it.

One specific book, Best Movie Year Ever, which is a is a great book. And, you know, I wish someone would. And they have written a book about The Sopranos, several books. But like the just the idea that like, again, this is happening the same year, all those really big movies. This feels right in that same kind of milieu of just like we're elevating the source material immediately by just putting a little bit more foresight and effort into it looking really great on top of all the other effort we're putting into the narrative and the acting and everything else.

And I'm sorry to argue, but 1986 is the best movie year. Oh, okay. I mean. Yeah. I mean, I have no I have no dog in the fight.

I mean, I ninety nine has like a bunch of stuff that like I know is really important, but I'm not necessarily like super into like Rushmore is one of the big ones, which I've never even seen. But like the Matrix and other stuff like sure. But this for me is like I think just as big of a deal because again, like this is this shapes television history. Still, like we're still seeing the effects of this because, again, HBO wanted something that would really get people excited. And the way like some of those shots when they're in John Heard's car and they're tailing Dr.

Melfi. like done from behind in the back seat. Like nobody was doing that. Like nobody, they were doing the usual kind of poor man's nonsense of, you know, sitting on the side of the car, swiping the leaves in front of the windows to get that look, but they're not doing these kinds of things. And also shooting it in New Jersey. There's just, it gives it something that it wouldn't have if it wasn't being shot on location.

Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if HBO would be what it was today had they not had this show and maybe one other, like A Sex and the City, because it feels like those two particularly, and I know there are others, obviously, like Oz and some other things, but those two shows in particular really feel like they put HBO on a different path, and I don't think they'd be the behemoth they are today had they not had that push in the late 90s. Agreed. Totally.

I totally agree. And again, it's because this show is just more or less consistently fantastic throughout to the point where more or less all the fans agree there's like really only one bad episode of the show. Right. Is that the musical episode? I wish there was a musical episode.

I really do. Yeah, sorry. Joss Whedon didn't get a chance to write for the show. I know. I know, right?

Yeah, they even had a freaking musical episode of Star Trek Strange New Worlds. It was like What? Why are you doing that? Why do you keep torturing us with these musical episodes? The one on Fringe was okay, but otherwise, just stop it.

The gimmick is worn out, as they would say. Big time. Yeah. But the other thing that I really like about this episode is we get to see a further progression of the bristling back and forth between Tony and Junior, and then by his idiotic continuance, christopher who again uh yeah i want to smack that guy i know and like the way i mean again you know Adriana LaServa is one of the most, like, put-upon characters in this entire series. And it never...

You'll see. Let's just put it that way. But she is one of those characters that, like, you wonder why she didn't just leave multiple times. Because this... Because, again, like, her...

And his back and forth once he gets out of the hospital, he's such a fucking asshole. Like, it's just he's hard to love, like if you love him at all. And he's one of the characters in the show that I really have very mixed feelings on, not because he's not a great performance, but because the performance is so good. it's like Sharon Stone-esque in Casino. Like, I know what you're doing, and the intention is being received, but also the intention is to make me not like you, so I don't. So there you go.

Yeah, there's a lot of physical violence in this episode in particular. I mean, you were talking about how, well, before we started recording, you were talking about the next episode a little bit, and yeah, obviously we'll get there next month, but This one has a lot of violence in it. This whole thing with, you mentioned the staple gun against uncle juniors, um, his, his right hand man. Yeah. And then, yeah, the stuff that happens with, uh, Dr.

Melfi's boyfriend. I mean, and then of course, you know, quote unquote, poor Christopher still dealing with the aftermath from his beaten from last episode. And yeah, I love the whole thing that he shit his pants. That is so fucking funny. Well, and also the way it's revealed.

Right. Well, and I also like the fact that the Brendan Filoni character is gone because he is not a character that I was ever a fan of in the show. And is it kind of an ignominious way to go out? Sure. But also pretty ignominious.

Yeah. He needed an ignominious end because he's a piece of shit character who's implied to be a pedophile almost or at least like OK with like jailbait essentially. So, yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Like, again, like Christopher's story. I'm again like I'm not going to ruin anything, but this is this is the hardest character to love on the show.

And I think that's like apparent from the moment we met him and the complexity behind the character's emotions will be revealed the longer we watch it. But he really is the hardest character to love in the show. And you can see why here. Just the way he treats his girlfriend is pretty, pretty pathetic in a lot of ways. He it feels like he would be hanging out with Bullet.

Yeah. You know, the, the Mickey Rourke character. Yeah. Like he's his, he's his mob connection. Like, yeah, it's Michael Imperioli, but that's the thing.

Like Imperioli is such a fantastic actor that like it's, he's easy to hate for a number of reasons. Like you just, and that's the thing. Like, I mean, obviously we've, we love good fellas. We've seen him in good fellas as spider, where he plays a rather sympathetic character for a number of reasons. He's a fucking mutt.

Yeah. He's a dancer drink over here. And he's great. They're like super, super sympathetic character. But here it's like it's just you can see how that sympathy could be really like not not legitimate.

And he's he's begging for it as his character. He wants to be the sympathetic character, but he's so off putting even towards like Pauly. And Silvio, they're so the level of frustration that they feel towards him is palpable because at times you think, is he here only because he's Tony's cousin or does he have a reason to be here? And again, we'll see the longer the show goes on. But he really just every time you see him, he's just there's a level of disgust with the character that they they really nail because he's just such an unlikable character.

Yeah. Yeah. To your point, though, he's not so unlikable that I'm not curious about where he's headed. Right. I am genuinely, honestly curious to see where he goes with stuff.

Right. And especially if, you know, he's... It's almost a father-son relationship between him and Tony, and it feels like he's really trying to prove himself to Tony. So that makes me feel for him. Right.

Yeah. Well, and I agree with you. I mean, you know, obviously, you know, his relationship with Tony is pretty much like the most important, one of the most important ones in the entire show. I mean, obviously, and like, you know, clearly that's already the case. And it will continue to build as the show goes on.

It's one of the big relationships. But yeah, I mean, again, like you do wonder what would this guy's life be like if Tony Soprano wasn't his mentor? Like, would he be this fucked up? Or is is this just who this guy is? And there was nothing that could have been done.

He's just a kind of a misogynistic piece of shit, like a misogynistic, racist, bigoted piece of shit, because he is like and so many of the characters on the show are. But you'll look past it immediately because this is one of the early shows where there's theoretically nobody to root for. Like if you were to take a step back, everybody in this is either complicit in the murder of people, complicit in the thievery and blackmail and extortion of people. And there's nobody that you should like, but let, but yet again, similarly to good fellas, you love it because just, And they're presented so humanistically like real people that you understand that they're doing this, not necessarily because they love it, but because this is the life that either they have chosen or has been thrust upon them.

Like in what universe was Tony Soprano not going to be a mobster really? Like if his dad was and that, that, that, that, like if everybody else is, wouldn't it make sense? And you can kind of see that even with Christopher, it's like, where would this guy be if he had said, I'm going to leave and not do the mob thing anymore? Cause he had an opportunity. Can you remind me, why is Tony having John Heard tail Dr.

Melfi and beat up the boyfriend? Just because he wants to know more about Dr. Melfi because he can't stand the fact that she won't tell anything about him. Oh. And why would your therapist?

Like, my therapist doesn't tell me anything about his personal life. Like, nor should he be required to. But Tony is a narcissist. Tony is a sociopath. Tony doesn't take no for an answer.

And, I mean, John Heard says it. Like, why would you have hamburger when you got steak at home? Right. All right, bro. But I mean, you're you're you're you're not completely informed of what's going on here.

But yeah, it's again, it's that it's that side of Tony that we haven't really seen yet. And it's because, again, the show does the smartest thing possible. It's like Jaws. We don't get to see that. We haven't seen the shark yet.

We've seen the fin, but we haven't seen the shark. And the shark is when Tony, since you've already seen it, but we're not going to talk about it. Once Tony finally does the thing we've been waiting for him to do, then you realize the show is finally opening the floodgates, as it were, to say, yeah, OK, this is this kind of show. Maybe it hasn't been up until this point, but we're going to push your ability to accept the decisions and actions of the characters almost to their fullest. logical breaking point, which we see now with all kinds of shows, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Game of Thrones. Any show now is mining the same anti-hero conversation that this show really had early on before any of those shows were even an inkling in any of those people's minds.

This might be inappropriate to say, but starting... Almost the very first shot of this episode, I think you get one shot of Tony and then you get a shot of Dr. Melfi's legs. Between that and the way she's wearing blue jeans later, Lorraine Bracco is looking really good in this episode. Yeah, she's, I mean, obviously I'm a huge fan of her.

You're a huge fan of her for a multitude of reasons. The main one for me being good fellas. But I always forget how much of the early seasons of the show are examining her character outside of the office. which I'm not saying that doesn't happen later on in the show, but it seems a little bit more like a concerted effort right now to be like, we want to have her character be held in mystery, but at the same time, Tony's wanting to know more, so we as the audience are getting to find out more with him. But we're not really, we haven't really followed her character yet outside of the office until this point, because now Tony is finding out as well. And I like that as kind of a narrative device where we're only finding out now because Tony is also finding out.

I have to say I was very happy to see Tony Darrow show up in this episode. And as soon as he shows up, I start quoting lines from Goodfellas. My wife's just like, what are you talking about? I'm like, if he's in this restaurant anymore, he'd be a fucking stool. And he is a reoccurring character.

Good. Oh, good. Oh, I love it. I'm going to have to become a lambist. Take it on the lamb.

Yeah, he's good. He's really great. And I really like Al Sapienza as Mikey Palmese as well. Just like such a poison pill constantly. And I love that everybody else hates him, too.

They're like, oh, he's been he's been like this since he was fucking born. But you get. But I love that. It's like even within this like circle of people, they have problems with other people that are seemingly just because this guy can't keep his fucking mouth shut about, you know, oh, I know somebody else with cancer. It's like even these mobsters are frustrated at people like this, just like you and I would be if you were around someone who's just constantly negative.

I think they, if they haven't referred to him yet, they refer to him at one point as like the Grim Reaper. He's like, he's the fucking Grim Reaper. But what I really enjoyed was Al Sapienza showed up recently in Jack Reacher, of all places. Yeah. Playing kind of a crooked cop in that show.

And I remember when he showed up, I was like, oh my God, I've literally not seen him in anything else other than this and that. So still looking good, still a great actor, but he, yeah, he gets the shit beaten out of him by Tony. uh which i love that well i love that scene in this in this in this episode where he's stapling him with the uh state i guess he's using the stapler to like staple piece of paper to him it's fantastic. Yeah because he's got the uh ticket on the window yeah and tony's like oh hey yeah you got this and then yeah you'd I love how far in advance Tony plans it out that he takes the staple gun from the hospital. So he knows what he's doing. It's not like prime of opportunity.

He's pre-planned this whole thing. Yeah. I watched that John Reacher, or John Reacher, Jack Reacher. To his friends, he's Jack. To me, he's John.

I'm very formal with him. But I watched that Reacher episode, and I knew that guy looked familiar. Yeah. the guy who is seemed like he was crooked at first, but he's really good. But then, yeah, his boss is just like, oh yeah, take this money, take this money. Yeah.

I didn't realize that that was him. Yeah. Yeah. He's a, He's great. I mean, again, he's an interesting character that they do some interesting things with, but I do like that there's just, again, there's one guy that all the other mobsters also don't like.

Because again, it's not that you don't get a sense of that in other mobster media, but because it's not long form narrative, we don't get to see those smaller interactions. Every interaction in Goodfellas feels like it needs to be a big deal because you have to maximize your time in the movie. But yeah, in this, you get to see these little interactions. And I mean, I guess- Speaking of Mikey Palmese, I guess we'd be remiss without mentioning the big kind of the big moment in this episode is Jackie April dies, leaving the power vacuum. And and lo and behold, we have the two scenes in the sit tight with Tony and Junior.

And the first time he says, you know, you better come back strapped. Otherwise, don't come back at all. And then Tony comes back strapped to talk about him, like who who is taking over the the family and tony being tony does the smart thing i think the thing that i would do which is you know be the man behind the man don't be the man in front of everybody because if that guy wants to be the man let. Him yeah yeah i'm trying to remember the actor's name but i was also glad to see the guy show up i think he's selling uh like plant food or weed killer or something to tony He's the guy from, oh, fuck, now I'm going to forget the name of the movie. Half-Baked?

Half-Baked. Yeah, he's like, fuck you. Fuck you, fuck you. You're okay, fuck you. Yeah.

He was also on Scandal. That's where I saw him a lot. Guillermo Diaz. He's fantastic. Yeah, he's a great character actor who, yeah, now probably never has to work again because he's on a show that has like 100 plus episodes.

That was super duper popular. Good for him. Good for him. Yeah, that was so nice because he's in there for like 10 seconds. But oh, it's that guy.

Right. Yeah. And also with what happens with Junior and Tony, we get to see the first inkling of the FBI and their involvement in the show and their kind of what they're going to start bringing to the proceeding, because this is just a early taste of where that will start to go as well. The longer the show goes on. So are there a lot of helicopters?

So you see a fucking helicopter. I forgot that Tony passes out in this one, right? He does. He does. He has another panic attack because he forgot to take his Prozac.

Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The again, early on, I forgot how much of the focus is on his mental health.

Like, I'm not saying it doesn't throughout the rest of the show, but a mobster walks into a therapist's office is is really being mined throughout this first season. Because, again, we talked about it in the first episode of the show. You know, the idea of analyze this being like a very close facsimile or like similar premised. But this show starts to move away from it very quickly and it stops being that thing. But I forgot how much this first season is just that thing over and over again to the point where, like we mentioned at the beginning with the dream sequence, there's also this, I don't know if it's a side plot, but it's a point of problem with Tony seeing Silvio in the same office building as his therapist because Silvio is at the dentist.

And it's this whole idea of, you know, If they see me at the therapist, if they see me taking medication for my mental health, will they think lesser of me? And by also further extension, does that mean that they will not trust my ability to do my duties as a mobster? And I forgot that that's like a part of it's not a big part of it, but it is a part of it early on that, like, I'm worried that they'll find out I'm in therapy again. Well, yeah. And plus it's at this point in our culture, it's seen as weak and vitamin and yeah, like that's the thing too.

It plays into this whole power vacuum thing as far as like, Hey, you know, my guys, they're not going to accept that. I didn't fight for this kind of thing. Right. Like I have to put on this, this front of strength and, I can't walk back to my guys and say that Junior is now the head. Right.

And I love that scene between the two of them when he comes back strapped and ready to talk. Came in heavy. I like that scene. Yeah, because again, like Tony is able to read Junior immediately and realizes what Junior is going to bite at and what Junior is going to jump at the opportunity of be the boss. But I need, you know, the trucking routes for you to be, you know, give me something. so that I don't leave here empty-handed, like you said.

And I love that already we're seeing Tony outwitting someone, is what it feels like. He outwits Junior, because again, he knows what Junior's pressure points are, which is this guy is concerned with looking like the boss, even if he's not actually doing anything in terms of being the boss. And again, Tony is already smartest character on screen. Already. Yeah.

Yeah, and the big Cheshire Cat grin that he has afterwards when him and Junior are just hugging it out and everything, and you can just see the gears turning in Tony's head. And then when he leans over to whisper into his ear, it's just like, I got chills, man. I really thought that that moment in this episode was fantastic. Yeah, and again, it's these moments where because James Gandolfini is such a fantastic actor and it's such a fully realized character already four episodes in, like you said, you can already see and understand the backstory between these two. And yeah, like, yeah, you know, I can't be perceived to lose face, right?

It's just like, he's, he switches on a dime so quickly from being that gregarious person to grabbing Uncle Junior by the back of the neck and telling him like, I need something for this because otherwise I'm not going to actually let this sit well with me. And yeah, like, James Gandolfini is such a fucking presence and it's such a well-realized performance that it's they do so much with, again, what so many people would consider to be just yet another scene. But there's so much subtext and layers to that performance, because like you said, you see those gears turning and, you know, he's already thinking of ways to exploit this situation because Uncle Junior is an easy mark in a lot of ways. Mm hmm.

People looking for power tend to be easy marks because just dangle the carrot in front of them and see what happens. And Tony knows exactly what to do. And you see by the end of the episode, the FBI is taking pictures of them. They see it happening and he knows I've already insulated myself somewhat against this by not being the boss because they see everybody paying lip to Junior at the at the funeral. Yeah.

Yeah. Which is great. Yeah. It really feels like if he's playing chess, he's a couple moves ahead. And you don't expect that from Gandolfini.

He appears like he's just a fist, but that there's a brain inside of that fist is pretty remarkable. Yeah. And that's, again, like, the Tony Soprano character, I feel, for me, is one of, if not, like, again, like, a great example of, like, a genuinely fully realized character who you could write papers on because of how well he's written and the level of nuance that James Gandolfini brought to the role. And I mean, it for me is the greatest role in television history. Like he really is like the greatest TV character because there's so much going on throughout the entire show, both hinted at, shown, implied, just talked about in one line, but that gives you enough to go off of for like plenty of time.

That's the thing about the Tony Soprano character is just everything that Gandolfini does serves the purpose, serves the narrative and furthers the narrative and broadens the narrative. Even a scene shared between him and his son playing, you know, Mario Kart together like that helps serve the narrative. And yeah, I just man, it's one of those shows where I could just always just put it on in the background. It's like in whatever episode. And I will find something to enjoy because not only is James Gandolfini showing up, Everybody else shows up, too, with their A game.

Because I think, again, if you're working around people like a James Gandolfini or a Tony Sirico or a Lorraine Bracco, they're elevating everybody else. They have that innate ability as actors. And again, there are very few bad episodes of this show, if only one. And there are very few, if any, bad performances. Like most everybody is doing exactly what is being asked of them better than you would expect them to.

Even someone like the Brandon Filoni character is written perfectly to the point where you want to see him gone. You don't want to follow his character any longer. He is a he is a mechanism through which the story continues to be told. But even that actor. turns in a fantastic performance is kind of this lecherous weirdo so you know. Lecherous weirdo yeah yeah but that's what they used to call me in high school Mike.

White, the lecherous weirdo. No, I and the other and the kind of the other big thing that takes place in this episode, you know, towards like we mentioned towards the end is we've seen that the power dynamic is shifting. And Michael Imperioli's character, Christopher, now works for Uncle Junior. That's the other big moment of the episode is that the push and the pull, the give and the take. Tony had to give up something as well.

Along with Uncle Junior giving something up. And I mean, you kind of see it pains Tony to have to give up Christopher to Uncle Junior because Christopher being under Tony is the right call because he needs to be given a short as fuck leash. Yeah. And Uncle Junior already has it out for Christopher with all this trucking fuckery. Yeah.

So he's like, I already know that I'm going to make this guy's life a living hell. And look, I mean, Christopher oversteps his boundaries. And Tony has no problem kicking his ass, too. That scene in the bar after Jackie dies, and he just grabs him. And he looks like he's about to throw him over the bar.

And again, it's those... It's those moments of physicality from James Gandolfini that are shocking right now in the show. They will stop being shocking at some point, but the speed with which the man of his size moves is surprising because the physicality he has is just... It's constant. I mean, he just always feels like he's just about ready to fucking snap.

And when he does, it's like, Jesus Christ, this guy would rip your fucking head off in a second. Oh, yeah. And I feel like the very end of the episode where they're at the funeral and... you've got the guys that are kind of coming up to, I think it was probably Walnuts, the way that he's leaning over and you got all of Tony's crew there and everything. And they're shooting it or showing it in slow motion while you've got AJ off to the side looking on. And I love that shot of Meadow turning around and raising her eyebrows like, see, can't you see what's been in front of you this whole time?

I really feel like they're kind of paying homage to good, sorry, the Godfather at that moment. It's kind of, the reverse of diane keaton and the door closing on her and just like yeah he michael has said you can ask me one thing you know you can ask me about this and she asked him and he lies to her and then next thing you know he's in that room with those guys like kissing his ring and everything and she just has to realize that she's a dupe and meanwhile in this you've got aj and Kind of on the other side, his eyes are open now and just realizing, oh, my dad is part of this world. He is, for lack of a better term, the godfather. Right. And I love that moment as well, because to your point, like, it totally is godfather-esque.

It's that, like, the moment of clarity that the character has. You can hear it in his mind, like, Like organs, like the sounds just crashing in his head of like, oh my God, I'm seeing the thing finally. And yeah, like, yeah, it's, it's a great, it's a totally earned moment. And Tony like looks at his son and they kind of share a smile and he winks at him. Oh yeah.

And that's the thing. I mean, the question that will be asked throughout the run of the show is, And it's the question that I think any one of us would ask if we were in the position as either the person as the man himself or the son or daughter of someone like, what do you do if your dad is a mobster? Like, what do you do if your kids find out that you're a mobster? Like, you know, and that question will be answered relatively quickly in the run of this show, at least with one of the characters. But.

It's an interesting question that the show is asking already of the audience, which is, like, how complicit are you in this if you know what's going on? And we'll see it a lot more with the Edie Falco character, obviously, because, again, she's Tony's wife. But I like that we're seeing it with the kids already, where they're like, oh, my God, like, that's what this is? Yeah. And we don't see it with we don't see it with with Meadow.

She already knows once the show starts. Right. And I like that because there is a younger kid. We do get to see that moment and her being like, don't you know? And then he's the payoff at the end is fantastic.

But it is, yeah, kind of a reverse Godfather, which, yeah. That's nice. Yeah. I mean, again, the show doesn't ignore the influences that have come before it. And I appreciate that.

And it's not that it's trying to do something different. It does. But it's subverting the expectations of what we've seen already, which in a lot of ways is harder to do than just being different. Being different is one thing, but going out of your way to be subversive towards the expectations of the genre, I think, is, if you can do it, it's much more impressive. And you've seen it already a little bit, but the show starts to, the longer the show runs, the more it flexes muscles that you really don't associate with a mobster or gangster narrative.

Yeah, it's almost like that David Chase had a good idea or something. Yeah, well, I mean, the David Chase, the one that you interviewed. The sore spot now. I know. Well, it's just, I mean, of all the, of all the things, right?

Like, of course that would happen. Why? You know? Yeah. Yeah.

I'm currently being talked to on Facebook, by the way, by Russell Crowe. So. Oh, for real fun. Yes. Yes.

Good day, mate. I'm like, oh boy, you're really laying it on thick. Aren't you? Shrimps on the Barbie for all. I will not be fooled again.

Fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me twice. Won't get fooled again. Yeah.

Fucking a man. Yeah. Maybe if we ever, when we do a bonus episode of this show, we can speak more about the David Chase story. But I think, rest assured, you may never hear David Chase on an episode of this show. At least not the David Chase we contacted.

Yeah. No, there might be, maybe we can find just some guy in the phone book named David Chase. Maybe. Right. I've got a friend, Leon Chase.

Maybe he'll talk with us. We'll go Chase David. How's that? Oh, there you go. Maybe Chevy Chase?

Yeah. Yeah. Chasing David Chase in Chevy Chase's Chevy. Chevy. There you go.

So on the next episode of What No Fuckin' ZD, we're going to be taking a look at one of the most important episodes of this show and one of the most important episodes I would contend of television, at least in terms of what it does for longstanding assumptions about characters that are leads of shows and what they can and can't be shown to do. And that episode is titled College. So until then, Mike, where can people find you and the things that you work on? Well, oddly, they can find me on weirdingwaymedia.com, which is the same network that puts out this show. And yeah, they can hear all kinds of stuff that I do.

Usually things with you, Chris, which is always a good time. And one thing I realized that you're not scheduled for any episodes of The Projection Booth this year. So we're going to have to bring you on for some special episodes. Actually, you are on a special episode coming up about Midnight Cowboy. So that'll be good.

That'll come out. Next month. So you can find that at projectionboothpodcast.com. I don't know how that happened. Yeah.

Weird. It's because you don't like me anymore, Mike. That's why. I found out. It's because I'm so hard to work with.

I'm so unprofessional. Oh, yeah. There is that. Constantly I'm stepping all over everybody, talking out of turn. I've been caught, and now I've been canceled.

The end. But if you want to find the things that I worked on before I was canceled just now, Weirdingwaymedia.com is where you can go to find this show, The Culture Cast, and a whole lot of other things that I either work on or help produce or just give an opportunity and a space to be heard, which is ADCV Ladies and so many other fantastic shows that you can find over on the network Mike and I started, weirdingwaymedia.com. So, yeah, and as always, until the next episode, I guess we'll catch you on the next episode. Fuck, I don't know. Keep cooking that ziti.

Yeah, keep it, keep it cooking. Thank you.