Designing Women and First Wave Feminism | 90’s TV Babies

Eighties nds Pretty Babies to the City God World. Yes, Welcome to eighties TV Ladies, where we look back at female driven television shows from the nineteen eighties with a modern feminist perspective. You're your hosts, Sharon Johnson and Susan Lambert head them. Hi. I'm Sharon, and my favorite Designing Women episode is Reservations for eight.

Hello, and I'm Susan, and my favorite Designing Women episode is Killing All the Right People. Tell us what your favorite Designing Women episode or moment is. Connect through our website eightiestv ladies dot com. Susan, I'm so excited for today's episode. Uh me to Sharon.

The nineties TV babies are back, hooray, and they are going to tell us what they think of Linda Bludworth Thomasin's Designing Women. Their assignment, which can also be yours if you dare to accept it, was to watch nine episodes of Designing Women. Here are the episodes that we assign them to watch Season one, episode one, the Pilot, Season one episode two, The Beauty Contest, Season two episode twenty two, My beloved Reservations for eight, Season four, episode eleven, They shoot fat Women don't They Season six episode eight, The Strange Case of Clarence and Anita, Season seven episode one of Human Bondage, Season seven episode seven, Fools Rush, in season seven episode eighteen, It's Not So Easy Being Green, and season seven episode twenty A Difficult Cross to Bear, and that episode is also called The Lying Game.

We made sure this time to include episodes with all variations of the cast. The first five seasons starred Delta Burke, Dixie Carter, Annie Potts, Geene Smart, and me Sec Taylor. Delta Burke and gen Smart left at the end of season five and were replaced by Julia Duffy and Jan Hooks. In season seven, Judith Ivy basically replaced Julia Duffy, but came in playing a very different character, a down to earth millionaire who becomes co owner of the company and was from Texas. So if you want to stop right here and go watch those episodes and then come back so you can give your thoughts alongside Siita, Sergio and Megan, please do Otherwise, let's get into it.

So here they are Sergio Perez, Serta Fontanese and Megan Ruble. Welcome friends. How great it is to have you join us today. Hello, Hello, all right, how did everybody's Thanksgiving? Co?

I was kind of boring. I worked the day after, so I did a like mad dash to Fresnow that was like completely not worth it because I was so zoned the whole time. I was spending time with my family, but got some good food. Tried to start an argument on Instagram over peel off versus mashed potatoes, and everyone else was wrong. Peelof is better.

Mashed potatoes are completely worthless. Thank you? Whoa strong words? Okay, Serena looks like she's ready to fight old. It's good, sure, but better than mash potatoes.

They're potatoes, Let's start there, and you know, chunky skin in with a little bit of gravy. We had mashed potatoes at Thanksgiving. In fact, I made two sweet potato pies. I drove them from Austin to Colorado. We drove with the dogs to go see my family.

My brother and his family live in Colorado, and my niece just turned one, so naturally everybody goes to where the baby is. We got to take her for a night. She stayed with us at our hotel, which was great. She didn't cry, She loved the dogs. We had a great time.

I contemplated not returning her, but I was like, I guess he would be able to find me pretty easily. I did return her asleep, so they are welcome, and I got some new content to bring to therapy, so that was great. I will say, hold on, sweet potato mash is a whole different story. Sweet potato has no business being a mashed potato. I don't know what you're doing with your sides, but I'm upset what I feel like the only solution to this is just like a massive spread of all the we disagree about and then we just have to eat all of it, all right, I'm to determine this solution.

Yeah, okay, I meet now you're cooking with grease. Such you I am. I like them both. No, I feel like mashed potatoes you can do more with Like there's different things that you can do, like a peel off, just as like pretty standard. You know.

I don't know my Thanksgiving. Here's the thing. Leading up to Thanksgiving. I'm always like, Yay, Thanksgiving. I love this.

This is gonna be fun. I'm gonna see my family and then I'm there and I'm like, oh no, I'm gonna see my family. And it's not that I don't love them, of course I do. It's just that in the last couple of years, I've gotten more into cooking, which has now designated me as the family cook, and so like in the weekly it's like, what are you? What are your plans?

What are you? What are you going to make for everybody's what's on the menu? And I just have to be like, I'm I've got it, don't worry about it. And then on the day, I'm in the kitchen sweating. Everyone's enjoying their lives, having fun.

They don't know what I'm going through. And yeah, I mean like it turned out at the end. It always turns out well where I'm like, Okay, this is all worth it, this is good. But dear lord, okay, we're here to talk about designing women, and we really gave you a pretty big assignment on what to see and watch. There were nine episodes, all right?

Did everybody make it through the nine episodes? Yes, I don't want to lie to you. That's fine. I mean I've also watched the whole series before. Oh okay, was that my first?

Great? All right, that's a good place to start. What did you guys know of Designing Women before you were assigning so episodes? I knew the lights went out in Georgia's speech, Yes, yes, and how did you I mean? I watched the show growing up like it was on.

It came on Lifetime at like six in the morning, which is when I was getting up to get ready for school. And in true ADHD fashion, I like to have the TV on to keep track of time. So by two Designing Women episodes, I needed to be ready and out the door that ever it takes. Yeah, yeah, yea, yeah, yeah. That was how I could gauge where I was at.

And then at night before bed, I would watch a rerun of Golden Girls, So I really I bookended my day with the ladies. So I would imagine you could consider yourself a fan having watched otherwise you wouldn't have watched it every morning, I would assume getting ready fantasticsolutely definitely a fan. And Meghan, you were just I take it you were in egreitement over the lights went over Georgian speech. I had heard nothing of the show. I didn't know it existed.

I didn't even recognize the name, so completely coming in with a clean slate, complete nineties TV babies. Now, Sergio, I think this is a little bit unfair because you work with me on this show, so you already know. But before we started working on oh nothing, nothing, oh nothing, before we started working on it, nothing, I mean, like, okay, actually that's just a tiny bit of a lie. Because Rapul's Drag Race All Star seven, one of the lip syncs between Jings Months Soon and Want to Exchange was the speech the night the lights went out in Georgia, and it was the first ever spoken word lip sync on Drag Race history herstory excuse me, And so that was like the first ever introduction to something from it and then everything everything comes back to RuPaul, doesn't it.

Because SNL did a sketch where Cecily Strong and Rue Paul played characters inspired by the women from Designing Women, and they were just calling people out at a at a dinner table because they were trying to split the check. And I remember watching that for the first time and just thinking this is so silly and weird. I don't know what this is from. But now like looking back and like, wait a minute, that was totally like Cecily Strong embodying Dixie Carter going in about splitting a check. But yeah, I also did get through all the episodes.

Oh that's I agree. I know we gave you quite a lot because it spanned seven seasons. Yeah, I'm a little bit older, so like Designing Women wasn't as old like when it was a fresh rerun. But I was also raised by an older woman, my grandma, and I was one of those little kids that just like whatever the adults were doing, I was doing. Yeah, like I've just been an adult.

I've been middle aged for a long time. I actually grew up very similarly, but I was for some reason watching Frasier and like sixties cop shows. I watched Frasier with my other grandma and in the heat of the night. Yeah, now that you have watched some Designing Women with your fresh eyes, what were your general impressions? Did it change Serita for you?

No, I still love it, like, of course, the caveat of nothing's ever perfect. We can always do more whatever whatever. Sure, But like Designing Women is iconic in so many ways. One, it's a show driven by women, and it was a show that really dug into issues like the Anita episode, and and like I vividly remember watching that episode for the first time as a kid, and like it really stuck with me, and like again, like I grew up in a family where like we were talking about politics to begin with, Like I have strong memories of like the hanging Chad election, Like that's like again, I was hanging out with adults all the time, and I had to stay off on my current events. But Designing Women didn't shy away from taking a firm stance on issues, and like that felt very revolutionary when I was watching it for the first time in the nineties, and that still feels really salient and like very important watching it in twenty twenty three.

Megan, this is the first one I didn't like. Interesting. I had a really hard time getting through it interesting. It is also the one I have actually no, I didn't know anything about It's a Living either, and I did really like It's a Living. I had a really hard time with it both from a like structure standpoint, although I did enjoy that at the same timestamp and every episode I was going to hear a like awesome female power monologue, like loved that was really just wading through every episode for that and like loved that, but also was sort of like, uh, I will say I didn't feel like it was for me, but I will add that with the caveat of it should be.

I mean, I'm not living in the eighties, but I am a like career driven woman who's actively dating. That's what's going on in this whole situation. So, like I felt like at any point in time I was going to like be able to latch onto someone, and I never felt like I could a little bit Anni Potts's character, mainly just probably because of hairstyle and general quirkiness. But yeah, I had a really hard time with it. Actually, I can go into specifics later.

Okay, all right, no, I'm this is so exciting. It's always completely exciting. Rita and I have just decided to argue this episode. The girls are fighting Delton Dixie, all right, searchio I liked them both. I'm kidding.

That's what we call a callback. Recently, I have described myself so you know how there's that idiom of like people just keep throwing at the wall hoping something sticks. I have recently described myself as the wall where I will just consume everything and form my opinion on it. But like, so like that was specifically for Marvel, where everyone's like they're tanking and like, yeah, just keep throwing it at me. I'll keep consuming it and I'll watch it.

But yeah, I think I had a good time. I liked it. I feel like just because the cast shifted so much, it was really hard to go from one episode really loving one aspect of it and then to the next where it was like very different, because like the dynamics had shifted so much. Because like I have been a really big fan of Jean Smart because of Hacks and that's where I was introduced to her, and I wanted to see more of her. But yeah, I think of all the things that we've watched so far, it is definitely the most like pointed and obvious about where the politics stand and like what the writers want the audience to take away from it.

And that's fun and I think that that is like really cool and comforting almost at this show like at the tail end of the eighties actually into the nineties, like was coming out. I do think that at time time, I was like, am I watching the news? Is this CNN? When there's like little correspondence everywhere, everyone has their own opinion on things, and like then the discussion just flourishes and it's like okay, and now this person's gonna talk. Now, this person's gonna talk, this person's gonna say their thing, and I have to walk away wondering, Okay, now what's my thing?

And maybe that's like what the whole idea was like. But yeah, I mean overall, I had a good time. Okay, and so specific too, because you sort of again had to work on this show before you probably saw any episodes. So was it what you expected based on the information you had when we started, because you it was just sort of put up this photo and let's talk about this, and we're going to interview this person. And it was more like Sharon and I talking about the show and getting ready for the series of episodes and then doing social media around the show and basically creating artwork.

Yeah, with those ladies. So I'm just curious because you sort of touched the show before you saw the show. Yeah, I mean I I obviously knew like it was going to be political, even just from like the titles of like, Okay, this all seems very very pointed. So I was like, Okay, I get it. I get it.

That's that's how I feel. But yeah, I mean I think it especially after the Linda Bloedworth Thomas and episodes and like hearing y'all ask her questions about like the politics, I was like, Okay, I know I'm in for something crazy and amusing. I here's the thing, though, I do remember both you and Susan talking about Slapstick and how like the cast was like very good at the physical comedy, and I think the episodes that we got didn't showcase that as much. I didn't. Yeah, uh, And so like I want to go back at least to see that because that y'all, y'all made it sound really fun.

Did Julia get stuck a fence? And uh, Julia and Mary Joe gets stuck under her bed are pretty great flash right? Yeah? And I'm thinking too of the one with where they're all on the way to some conference in Tennessee and there's a snowstorm and the ski lodge. No, not the ski lodge, this is the one where Anthony and Suzanne are stuck in a motel.

So oh, and she's trying to kick him out of the motel because it would not look right and would I stand by I don't know why you were so worried. That's clearly a gay man, except I know, waiting until later. But let's go right in, Okay, was Anthony gay or not? Getting Serena go Kennedy is gay? No, he's not.

Oh gosh, now we've used we've used the word coded before another callback. I was thinking about this before we to record today of is Anthony gay or gay coded? So thank you, Sergio. And I think he was gay coded. And as a member of the LGBTQ community, I caught it and was like, who are you fooling?

Right? But like to the blind eye, like he's just kind of like a quirky dude. And I know that the show technically is like no, he's a straight man, but like he could be by he could be queer, like right, like he could fall somewhere on the spectrum and just happened to have ended up with a sis woman. And I think that is what we have to remember. Of course that's a possibility, be Id, it is not a possibility with Anthony the character.

He's he's he's a southern gentleman. He's at just out of prison. He's working with all these white women he's got to be careful. He's he's got to be careful and what's going on around him because he needs to keep this job so he can try to stay out of prison. So anyway, or does he have to be careful by staying in the closet, No, because he doesn't know.

Well maybe maybe not initially, but clearly over time I think he found he would he would have found that if he were gay, that these are the women that would have been would have said okay without batting an eyelash. Writers were brave enough to lean into it. Well, if you if you should know that Linda Bludworth Thomason wrote the majority of the episodes, especially in the first four seasons. So maybe we should have you take up with Maybe you should Okay, I have some questions. Okay, but you want to propose a drinking game every time Serena and I disagree, you could just sit and every time Sergio makes a callback you have to take a shot.

It seems like we've already started that gay. Yes, you know, we don't know what's in that big blue glass and what this looks like. A but Megan, what do you think, yeah about Anthony being gay or not or that Anthony is not gay. Basically is my party. Okay, So, as somebody who did not watch the whole series and just jumped in on these episodes, Anthony showed up and I was very excited and he seems really cool and I'm forgiving the main woman's name, Julia.

Julia. The first thing I saw of him was a scene with her and was like, Oh, these two people are like kind people who have a mutual appreciation for each other. I literally I was watching it with a friend and I literally looked at the screen and went kiss. So I was him and Julia, and then he showed up with a wife, and I was like, oh, well, okay, fine, So I have no comments on his queerness. I feel like there's a wide spectrum of queer people and could absolutely land anywhere on there.

I just wanted him to end up with Julia, and I was kind of bummed. I love that. Actually ship didn't work out. Ship didn't work out, you know, but that's the fun of shipping. You never niclet some fan fiction that is so interesting.

When I was rewatching it after our last conversation Sarita, I was also like, why did I think that? Right? And I will say that we also then have to separate what the filmmakers intended versus what an audience is receiving. And I do not think their intention was gay or gay coated at all. However, I think there are times as you watch, you know, and I've watched I think, not all of them, but close to at this point, and there are ones where he is more gay coded, where you're like, oh, yeah, totally, and then there are others where not.

What I think is interesting about the character, and what is very Southern is that, even though the actor is not Southern and the character is not like super southern, right not not sort of typically southern. Yeah, yeah, some of the you know, like Delta Birk's character acts very southern, Misa Taylor's character does not. Anthony does not act incredibly Southern. And yet there is a type of Southern gentlemen that sometimes turns out to be gay and sometimes does not, and it is just a Southern gentleman miss that can be read either way. Case in point.

There actually is an episode in either the six or seven season, I can't remember which that I watched recently where Julia is dating a man that she assumes is gay, and her boyfriend, Reese, has passed away, and she's trying to get back into dating. She's going out with this guy and they're going to the theater and fine restaurants, et cetera, et cetera. He dresses impeccably and she just assumes that he's gay. He's not. He's not.

But that was the assumption that she made based on the things that he liked, the way that he lived his life. And I could kind of see it when the actor was in scenes with her before they had this conversation about whether or not he was gay. He was deliberately written in a way that he fits some stereotypes of gay men, especially wealthy, the wealthier side. So I think where I'm going with it is that episode very clearly try to say, don't just assume because of X, Y and Z that somebody is straight or gay, because it may mean that it may not. So that was a way for them, I think too.

I don't know what the history of that episode is, if it was something they wrote just because or if there was some reason behind it. I think one of the things we did learn from LBTS I like to color Miss Linda is how much she was really telling sort of personal stuff about sort of Southern culture and her view of Southern culture and Southern people. And you know, she talks about how having Anthony come on as a convicted felon who's now on parole would be really challenging right now because it wouldn't be a positive character, and yet she wanted to take that character from this sort of potential stereotype to one of the cone owners of the company and follow that journey, even though it wasn't a thought at the original concept of the show because he's not there in the pilot.

But I don't know, I just think it's very interesting how they use or don't use Anthony, and I think sometimes it's really thoughtful and then other times it's not. And I think it has to do with literally whatever episode they're doing. And I'm not sure there was an overall arch I think it got there, but it was just an interesting moment. Susan. I think something that you said about the southernness of Anthony is actually what I've been tracking with him of like to the point of, like, oh, I know this archetype in like my own lived experience, like having grown up in Texas and like rural New Mexico, near West Texas like and family from the South, especially as as a black man like I like, I have a very specific person who is in fact a gay man and for a long time was in the closet, uh that Anthony reminds me of.

And but to your point, though, right, some of that is just Southern nature and and some of that is someone understanding and coming to terms with their sexuality and identity in those things. And I think because of my experiences, like those things are pretty married for me. And and again thinking coming back to your point also of like, it's not always clear what Anthony's arc is going to be for a big chunk of the show. In my head, like Megan, you were like kiss kiss kiss. In my head, I was like, just tell us he's gay.

Like I was like, this is what I'm waiting for. And then when that wasn't the arc, I genuinely was like, well, now what do we like what is happening here? And and again right, like, I think the brilliance of the of writing in general is the way that we can imprint our own understanding and our own decision making and what we would do and what we would want to see onto these characters and our own experiences onto these characters. And also there's the very real, to your point, Sharon like reality of Anthony is married with a white like that is not a plot point in the show at all. So, like you know, do I have to accept reality?

Sure, Anthony can live as a closeted gay man in your in your mind, but I hate that for him. But of the time it would have been, it would not have been to yeah, when I've been unheard of, and it would not have necessarily he was still for all the reasons why you know, just at a prison, et cetera. It probably wouldn't have been to his benefit. Thank you. Yeah, you have come out enough exactly exactly.

I'm going to give Messak Taylor a lot of credit for this character and kind of in some ways creating a character where there wasn't a lot early on in particular and the balance of just being in the only black character for in a Southern show, which I think the story I heard and we got to check with with Miss Linda about this is that at a political event where Bill Clinton was being honored, chryl Lee Ralph walked up to Harry Thomason and said, why have these women not met a black woman in five years? I love her Now. I don't know if that's true asking the important questions, but she was absolutely right, and I'm going to be like they went, oh, you're absolutely right, can we get you? Yeah? And then so I'm that's what I imagine actually happened.

Now, then the fact that there was really only one more black person in the show for the person still I assume did she come on as his wife or was she introduced as another character and then became his wife. She came on and came on as his wife. The episode you saw where she is sort of introduced. Would they get married? Is the first episode with her because they had gone to Vegas.

She was a show girl. They met and they got drunk, and they got married. That feels a little weird too. They brought her in real quick. Well, they brought her real quick, But that was very like the show.

Like the show would do that kind of thing. They would introduced a character kind of out of nowhere. They introduced him kind of out of nowhere. There wasn't a lot of introduction to his character. In episode two.

He just showed up and they were like, oh, he's he's from here, and then sometimes they used him and sometimes they didn't. In that first season, I felt it was a little uneven. That was not my Atlanta, right was. I did not know a lot of interior designers. I did not read Southern living.

I was not interested in that genteel South, even if it was liberal minded these particular women, because it was tied to a South that I was like, no, it's if Blanche Devereaux had her own show like these, this is the Blanche. Like it's not it's not quite as sexual as Blanche always is because that's her archetype, but like it is Blanche's version of the South of genteel ladies who did Katillian And you know everyone has that drawl and a big daddy that they talk about, like right, and big hair and big look, as we say here in Texas, the bigger the hair, the closer Jesus all right. For me, it was sort of, yeah, that's not a South that actually does incorporate blackness. And growing up in the area that I did, which was recently integrated and recently you know, the Civil Rights had pretty much just happened, the Civil Rights Act.

I was born in sixty six. It happened in sixty four, so it's really I was. I benefited greatly from a post civil rights Atlanta and environment, but part of that was also just literally being around black people, which in some ways I feel like some of Designing Women was a much more segregated South, even though they were liberal with their politics. That's what it felt like as a kid, and even looking back at it, there was a little bit of that for me where I was like, oh, where are the black people. Oh, there's one, but there's one, which, again network television, You're like, whoa.

I mean, it did make sense in the context of the show. They ran a high end design firm, so their people, their business was dependent on people with money, which tended to be more white folks than black folks in Atlanta certainly at that time. Absolutely so, in that context it absolutely made say. It was not unrealistic. It was just not common, probably not as common as it is now that there would be black people that would be their client tele.

It could be their clientele as it was in the eighties, it would have been less so much less so. Yeah, But back to your experience of Designing Women, was there character in particular that you really sparked, two that you really enjoyed. Let's start with you, Sergio, Oh, Annie pots One. Mary Joe is really just fantastic, Like even in the pilot her introduction when she's walking down those stairs with her like jaw on the floor, it was just so funny to me. And I was a little disappointed with like a couple of the episodes that we got for her because it was like, Okay, she's a single mother of two, really working hard, and then oh, she has a gambling addiction.

Now, oh, and she also is a heavy drinker, And I was like, oh, I feel I feel like you could be more, like there could be more for her, But just her performance specifically was something I was really drawn to. She's really funny, really quick, and I just really like characters like that. Megan same Actually, yeah, the ability for her to be like wacky and sharp at the same time is something that I really enjoy and find very funny and also just like masterful, right, Like a lot of actors I'm sure myself included, like you find sort of like your sense of humor that you function best in and you sit there and she has a lot of all of the different ends of it, which is really exciting. I also took mainly in the first two episodes afterwards not as much.

It was like taking pictures of her outfits and was like, how do I do this for me now without just looking like I'm godsplaying her? Very few people will know and that's fair. Will be my age and will During the pilot, I was like, do I want banks? Anyways? I have to ask are you okay?

The automatic report? Literally I looked at it and was like, do I want bangs? And then I was like, oh am I okay. I to do some self evaluation. I will not be getting bangs.

Nobody needs that, including me. Thank you, Serena. I mean I am a delta Berg really through and through. You know, she really speaks to me. There's no wrong answer to this question now at all.

Okay, So, uh, of the episodes you watched, which one kind of really was like, hey, this feels resonant or this feels special and this feels like the show or this is this politically was exciting because we did give you a lot of political ones. Okay. So the one where Suzanne goes back for her high school reunion, this is a this is a complint wrapped in a compliment. I thought it was so well done that there was time given to, like let her talk about her feelings, let her have the eleven and o'clock feminist rant, and like talk about like what it means to change what her feelings were, why it shouldn't matter, but for some reason societally it does. Letting her have a moment of triumph over the people who were like mocking her was really beautiful.

But letting it be a like moment of triumph of I don't care what you think. Letting the character who was so grating to me in the first episode that I wanted to choke her become somebody who was like, like, don't take it, don't take it personally, becoming someone who was complex and like still maintained what character they had set up with her, but allowed her to grow. And I was furious when the next episode I watched, she not only was not there, but somebody was there who was like smaller than me and blonde, and I was like, what happened? What happened to this beautiful monologue? I just got about like the way we deal with women's bodies and how inappropriate that is also while wrapped around the context of yes, and also we have to keep in mind that there are literally people starving, and like what a not a privilege necessarily, but like we we get to contend with this and have this deep, deeper conversation about like what it means for women's bodies because we have enough food to survive.

I thought that was really cool and a really cool conversation, and it was very angry when I started the next episode, so I was like, where did she go? I finally was full in on this character. Now she's gone. Now you could have watched other episodes, because there were an entire season and a half between these episodes, I will say were scotching to give you a chance to see who the changes were and all that. Let me ask, then when did she exit the series?

The end of season five, right, and the episode you're talking about is season four, middle of season four, Okay, so she had another whole season and a half to go. Yes, and I will, I will. I don't know if if it was in any information we sent she was nominated for Best Actress in a Comedy for that episode Good. In fact, that was the only Emmy nomination for any of the four leading actresses in the show, the actress who played Alice Ghostly, who played Bernice, was nominated for a guest actress I believe. I'm not sure, but I think so.

But Delta Burke was nominated for playing Suzanne for that episode. Yeah that I really enjoyed the way that one was handled. Yeah. And there was so much discussion in the tabloids and even the more traditional news about how that built a Burke was becoming well and she battles with an eating disorder like throughout her life, Yes, which not on for women in the public, no, uncommon for right, which and I think this is part of like I saw. So even though Delta Burke is a white lady in the South interior designer like I was, my mom put me in baby pageants, a little miss nimble darling.

I was a chubby kid for all of my life and my weight was always up for discussion. And I have dealt with a eating disorder, so like so much of her character and for once she was like her entire identity wasn't well, she's the fat friend. And to be very clear, Delta Burke not even there's nothing wrong with being fat and Delta Burke is not fat, right, like right, like, let's be honest about some things, right, But for so much of my own life experience to have been wrapped in my weight and my image and how I was perceived by other people, like I found her character, and a coping mechanism of that was to just be like, I'll make the joke myself so that no one else can make it for me, Like there was so much honesty in her character that part of me is also like I wonder who was in the room and what their life experiences were like, right, But like she and in that episode in particular, like I have not gone back to my high school reunion for all kinds of reasons, mostly I don't feel like it, but like absolutely grappled with like oh, like this is something that I've thought about with my college reunions when I was like deep in my disorder of what is it going to be like to go back and see people who saw a very specific version of my physical self and like myself in general, and to show up as my true, authentic, happy self.

But she looks nothing like and is nothing like the version that you all knew, And like, how will I cope with that? How will I deal with that? How will I manage that? Like right? And so to have Delta Burke have this, uh this storyline in that episode of you know that, it's her going to the stores and they're like, you should go to like the plus size stores, and she's like, well, why would I go there?

That's not me, right, like this big rejection and and then come to a place of like it doesn't matter, Like my weight and my size has nothing to do with who I am as a person, and that being so similar to my own personal journey. Like there there was like a very like like touching moment in that episode in particular, And again, so much of her her character's story is her weight, and she's always on some diet and she's always talking about her size and shopping and whatever, and like that's a very real reality. And for the show to have given her a platform and space to say what I also imagines the stuff that she wishes she could have said to tabloids who were only amplifying this is like again, like I just feel like the show was doing so much and to Sergio's point, right, like, and especially the episodes that we watched of there's so many like political hot takes in like every episode.

But I loved that and I was like, hell yeah, Like we're going to talk about AIDS, We're going to talk about teen pregnancy. Like, let's go. We didn't give you. I realized we didn't give you. It's called killing all the right people, and it is.

If you're going to watch another episode of this show, I would highly recommend that episode. What is very interesting and what Linda Blworth Thomasin talks about, I believe in our second part of the interview, is how she was writing these shows like a week before they filmed, now the weekend, the weekend before they would shoot them, she'd write it over the first Sunday and the year. That's like soap opera writing. Yeah. And what is interesting when you know her story is she is literally writing to her story and every other actress in the room.

So again that Delta Burke episode when she's hearing other people talk about her at the reunion, some of those lines are lines that Delta Burke herself overheard at a press event that she was attending. The male reporters guessing her brass eyes and things like that. So so much of this show is literally very personal and very much like here's what I'm thinking right now, and that makes it such a time capsule for the eighties and early nineties. The AIDS episode was written a year after her mother died of AIDS Who and sort of in honor of her mom and the other people that were dying at the same time anyway, so it's even more than some of the other shows we looked at. This show is such a very personal political view of life, and yet I also think very funny, Like I would love to get your guys' opinion of the strange case of Clarence and Anita.

Did you know about that event before the Kavanaugh herrings and what you thought of that episode? I mean, this was a huge case like in the black community, right, yes, so I definitely knew about it, and like I remember my mom and my grandma talking one about how Clarence Thomas could not be trusted ever and we all knew it, and two that Anita was like the epitome of quote the perfect victim, like like in how like we expect victims and survivors to like have everything right about them in order to be believed. And still we watched what happened, right, and so, and like I remember like my mom and my grandma and like other black women in my life talking about how like see, it doesn't matter what you do, what you say, like whatever, like they're not going to believe you.

But then that turning toxic and being like so the responsibilities on you to not write like you know it always takes like a sharp left, and then having to watch Cavanants Supreme Court swearing in and having to sort of watch society relive that and still make the wrong decisions. I wouldn't say it's mind. You have a good time, Yes, so do. I'm trying to think right now about like a TV show that's happening where they are so like outspoken about what they think about something that they intersperse clips from the hearing into the footage of the TV show, and I just cannot come up with anything. I'm like, I feel like now things just happen in a little timeline where everything's beautiful, and maybe COVID happened where like most TV shows just occur in like a vacuum, and so it was really interesting to see like them like the Bumpers being the hearing itself and then the swearing in at the very end.

I've never seen anything like that on television, and I don't think you would see it today because networks of any kind would be too afraid to do that because of the backlash from those who disagree with whatever the point of view that's been. And what did you know of the Clarence Thomas I Needa Hill confirmation. So I grew up in an apolitical house where we just didn't talk about things, and so also I was born in nineteen ninety nine, it had sort of yeah, baby T ninety TV baby like infant. I think that I don't want to say that it had come and gone by that point, but everyone had just like it. It was no longer like a big conversation by that time when I was forming memories and conscious in two thousand and six, But when it resurfaced during the Brett Kavanaugh stuff, I did look into all of the stuff that had been talked about.

But for me, the Brett Kavanaugh case is the one that's definitely obviously because it's more recent, but also because it was the one that happened most like when I was just forming what my political opinions were, and like I think it was maybe my just at the beginning of my junior year of college and my first year of college, Donald Trump got elected, and so really just it was a bit of a I don't know how else to describe it as just crazy. Well, m Reagan was elected while I was in college. Wow, my first year of college, Obama got elected for the first time. Yeah, well thanks sir. No, it set me up for unrealistic expectations.

All right, we're going to take a break, We're gonna come back. I want to hear what Meghan knew or doesn't know, and then we'll kind of wrap up. We're back, all right from Meghan. Yes, they do know that I had knowledge of it prior to the Kavanaugh hearings, but not an intimate knowledge of it. Just sort of like this is what and this was the result.

I'm I apologize. I'm going to talk about another episode, but they're kind of tied together for me. The episode where they're all stuck at the ski lodge with their boyfriends reservations for eight that was my least favorite one agreed overall. Love that conversation. I want heart promise I'm so heartbroken.

That is my favorite episode of the entire series. I want that, and this might become a first second wave feminism conversation too. I want that conversation to occur. I agree that men exist like that. I don't want to hear from them on that conversation.

I don't why. I think that the things that they said were not just oh, this is how men are. I thought the things that they said were actually very cruel. I think if a partner communicated to me in that way, I would that relationship would be over, not because we disagree or see things differently, but because they inherently do not have respect for me as a human being. And as a result, when you have men who have arguments that yes, I totally understand men, there are still definitely then, I'm sure, and there are still men who speak and think that way.

When it is their partners, though, who are addressing them that way. That to me diminishes the intelligence of the women, and that makes me have really complicated feelings about it, because there's not a conversation that's happening, and then we meet each other where we are, I'm like, these are irreconcilable differences. These men are not looking at you as human beings, and you need to walk away from them, and we've all been there, We've all chosen to stay with people who did not treat us properly. But so there's not a judgment there as much as a me watching that, I feel uncomfortable and icky, rather than oh, what a like interesting conversation about a complicated topic. Was there a line I'm curious, can you give an example of one of those?

And again it's not fair to necessarily ask you for that, but it was it like oh when he said this or she said that, it was when he said this, period. But also I also found that a lot of the women's arguments then in response also were not as sophisticated. They were angry, which if I were hearing those comments, I'd be really flipping angry too, and there'd be worse things I'd be saying. If he were the men and you heard them talk and they were talking to you, If I were the women and I heard the men speaking to me that way, my initial reaction would be some like aggression towards them rather than a sophisticated argument, because I feel like those were really really uh terrible things a lot of them were saying.

But so coming from that where I was like, this could have been, to me, a really interesting conversation about what it means to be, within the context of the show, a cis white male, and what it means to be a SIS white female, and how do our backgrounds and differences and the way we view the world make us different and where can we find common ground other than just that we want to sleep with each other, which is to me, how the episode ended, rather than a note of tenderness or we're going to meet each other in the middle, was just like, well, we still want to go to bed together, so let's dance, And that really left a sour note for me. The Anita Hill episode, however, was a little bit better to me.

Loved that they were talking about it, loved the news clips at the end. Although yeah, I did like that. I did like the addition of Anthony because then we had actually like a different we had more views being presented here. Everyone was communicating intelligently until they started making jokes about sexual harassment, until there were jokes about men being sexually harassed, which is a thing that can happen and is a thing that occurs, and then it was undermined with a joke, and that felt a little like the joke was misplaced again, though I thought it was a much better conversation that was happening. I had respect, I think for even the people where I was like, come on, I had at least a little bit of respect for them, and it seemed like they did too, So I liked that episode.

There were still things though, where I was like, Okay, yeah, we're going here. Awesome, and apparently going here immediately after it happened, which is even more awesome. But if you're going to be that bold, also like knowing where to place the jokes, I feel like so that you don't undercut your own point. I also will say to you, I fully recognize that stylistic comedy and like the way we handle things have changed, so like, there are definitely things that were probably perfectly fine when this was happening that I'm a little bit more like that doesn't sit right with me. That is so interesting.

I love that, and I think you're right. I think I want to point out you're right about how quick The Clarence Thomas confirmation was October fifteenth, nineteen ninety one. This episode aired November fourth, yeah, two and a half weeks later. See that that's cool, that's really cool, breaking insane. Yeah, they must have dropped whatever they were doing and said, oh, we got to do an episode.

I literally think they were working on the like whatever happened to Baby Jane B story was the A story, and they just kept it in and brought this up, which I know it's not important and not what we're talking about, but one of my favorite B stories of maybe all time is just like, what if whatever happened to Baby Jane is just happened in the background now that we have broached it is the sort of first wave feminism in the show versus second wave feminism and what other people thought of the Reservations for eight episode. Sergio Serena angry about Reservations for eight. Yeah, it's just it was so grating to me the episode. Yeah, honestly, Yeah, sorry, Sharon, I love you. It's okay, It's just okay.

I just won't tell Linda that, you know, because it's I know, Linda, if you're listening. Sorry, Well, can I add one more thing about research? I fully agree though with the concept of like we do need to find within certain parameters peace within like having some differences. I agree with that intention and I really respect that that was there. I just disagree with how it was executed.

M fair enough And is that where you live on that episode, Sorgo, Yeah, I think so. I think that just like the idea that they all get snowed in and like all got cabin fever and just started to like just get really irritated with each other. It was really I go to television to escape and the tension was a lot, and I don't know, I just also just felt like the men were being terrible. Yeah, very very cruel stuff they were saying, like and at the end when they were just dancing, it was like, I don't feel like that was the proper resolution to anything. Like I'm fully on board with what Meghan said where it's like if a partner ever talked to me like that, it's over, Like that's that's it.

Like I know that there's something within you that just does not agree with who this person is and like their existence. So with everyone dancing at the end, it was like, oh, that's cute and kind of just a non resolution that is making me upset. And Sarita, did you have the same feeling on that episode? Okay, here's the thing, I think it is going to be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to find particularly a second wave feminist episode from that decade that is satisfying that is not a black show, right, Like I like when I think about like episodes of a Different World or this came out later, but Living Single, but just like black TV at the time, because it was so rare i'man, not that it's super prevalent now, but because like it really was like you were taking a big chance to put a black show on, Like it either had to be purely comedic jokes head empty, which like cool, there's a time and a place for that, or it had to really be like constantly doing the work, Like every episode of a Different World, while there's a ton of humor and a ton of lightness and love, like I love that show.

Also every single episode we are dealing with something and and that's because it's the lived experience of black folks, especially at that time. So we're not gonna we're not gonna get what we want, I don't think from from the vast majority of what was on TV at that time. And also because we're not really getting what we want from TV now, Like there there this isn't to say that there isn't good TV and there isn't like second wave of feminists or like womanist TV. Like yes, those things exist, but they are done very specifically, very intentionally, and they are not the norm or the standard, I should say. So, like that's like the big overarching caveat around this.

Sure, them dancing at the end isn't super satisfying in terms of like there isn't it. It's very TV in that and we put a little bow at the end and everything's fine and it's good and we move on. Is my personal hell being trapped in a ski lodge with a bunch of white men talking to me out the side of their neck. Absolutely, so like to that, like yeah, like it makes sense that the women are angry and just like on a rant like like on twelve the whole time, Like it's I still think that the that Delta Birk's high school reunion, Like I think that is like maybe my favorite episode, So like I wouldn't put this one as like a favorite, but like it's not a bad episode, like I I think it. I think it does what TV did at the time of everything was in really broad strokes, like everything was you're either on one side or the other side.

There's no room for nuance. There's no room for for like that deep conversation that like we're having right now. So, like, in terms of do I think this is a good episode? Yeah, do I think that it, you know, ticks all the boxes for you know, radical second wave feminism or even getting into like womanism and talking about intersectionality. No.

And also, I don't know that we've watched a show that truly has done that, because that just wasn't what TV was or where TV was at at the time. Yeah, maybe I'm a designing woman apologist. No, No to your point, to your point, Sritas. So for those of you doing the drinking game, you have to spit out part of your drink to your point, Serita. Like the shows that I can think of where because a sitcom right by nature, has to be people operating severely out of their faults at all points in time, right Like, that's what makes it funny, that's what makes it able to run for a bajillion Season's Friends being an excellent example.

Nobody really grows or changes. You just mix people up different ways and everything's funny at the end. But like sitcoms where people still operate out of their faults but are still able to grow and change and have character arcs and have depth to them is really a really recent thing. Like the ones coming to mind for me at least are like Mindy Project, where she is an incredibly complex character but also is not a stereotype but a like a She's still operating out of her faults through the entire series. What also growing That is incredible writing, and that is a really new TV show.

And Parks and rec is another one I can think of where everyone has character growth but is still operating some want out of their faults. Those are really recent shows. So that's like a recent thing that we're doing. Abbit Elementary does it too? Yeah, gosh, so interesting?

All right, and then I'm curious. Also, let's ask the question, is Designing Women feminist and is it progressive? Based on the episodes you saw or what you know about the show. I think it is important to acknowledge that feminist and progressive are two different things, right, Like, there are plenty of feminists who are not progressive, and there are progressives who are not feminists. Right So with that in mind, I think Designing Women is definitely feminist.

Right, we're looking at first wave, We're looking at our Susan B. Anthony's right, And I do think for the time it was progressive gay or straight. Anthony was still a formally incarcerated blast man with a real job and a real personality, and like he was not a carecicture of blackness like that in and of itself is progressive. And also having these women take such firm stances that, even looking back, are still the right side of history, even if it was a little clunky of how we got there, even if it wasn't fully explained how we got there right, But like for the most part, they're they're landing on the right side of things. So I do think that makes it progressive for the time.

The original version of Designing Women today, of course, there's a lot more that could be done with it. I think we say that a lot on this show. I would love a Designing Women reboot, Like I don't I'm not usually like a reboot girl. But if Designing Women could come back today and still hold those strong stances and still let those women have a monologue every episode, like I would be in heaven. The costuming alone, you know yeah, wow, okay, Surge you.

I agree with Sarita. I think it is feminist, progressive for the time, and I think that we just from twenty twenty three have the luxury of looking at it. And I don't want to say with an abundance of media that is progressive but like because it truthfully is not very abundant. But I think we just start from a time now where we can look back and be like, Okay, they were saying something here for the folks who needed it. And that's another thing where I think about, like, Okay, the sitcom would come on everybody's TV at this time and everyone tuned in like yeah it is it was the people's the cultures.

I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say, but like that, just like I'm making so many callbacks, I'm about to make a callback to Brian Edward Hill's episode where he talks about like how the things that we consume are like the like veins of our pop culture out are our culture. That's like we live in philosophy of our day. Yes, yeah, it is the philosophy of our day. Yes. Where that that like really resonated with me, And now that I've like watched Designing Women and not just taken JPEGs of them and put them in layers.

I see that where I'm like, yeah, this must have been very progressive for someone who needed it, like who needed it to be back then, and like we can watch it now and appreciate that for what it is, Okay, Megan, feminist, progressive, Okay, but this is like the worst answer ever. I do not disagree with either of you. I think like, in context, absolutely it is both of those things. But I think I try and answer that question out of context. So I think it's progressive no matter what.

And the sad statement of that is because I think anything trying to start a nuanced political conversation is progressive. That's sad, but that's just not how we offer it. That's where the bar is, so I can't help that. Yeah, so I definitely think it's progressive, and I do think that holds up. Maybe not, I haven't seen all the episodes obviously, so maybe not across the board and opinion, but like anything trying to start those nuanced conversations and taking a stand on recent events, I think that is progressive.

Where I get hung up on the feminism is so much of it revolves around the men in their life, and yes, it's a show about them for the most part dating, so like that makes a lot of sense, but also that still is that falls a little short for me. Yeah, I also don't tend to gravitate towards contemporary shows that center around dating, so that might just be a little bit of taste as well. So I'm hesitant to say it isn't feminist, but I do sort of hesitate to say that it is because so much of it is centered around their reactions to the men in their lives. And that may be our fault again because we gave you select episodes we were trying to like get we cast and get you certain things that were like sort of some of the most renowned episodes.

So I think there are many episodes that don't center around men and dating. I mean, there's seven seasons of a show, so it's really hard to describe unless you, I think, lived it and we're an adult woman at the time this show came out. Just how revolutionary it was and still is that the show even existed because of the fact that, you know, our good Betty LBT was not shy about taking on all kinds of issues. I mean, she she started this show because she wanted to talk about the South in a way that wasn't about, you know, toothless vocals in the backwoods, and to give a different face to it, while at the same time giving voice to her own feelings about feminism and women in general. And I honestly can't think of any shows that have come along since that were as revolutionary in their take on women in particular as this show was and still is in a lot of ways, while at the same time being really really laugh out loud funny.

It didn't make them Yeah, I think, I think you're right. We're like, oh my god, there's this great episode and this great episode without thinking about the consistent you know what what we were we looking at here? You want to you were you were excited to add him in and oh no, no, best not that I joined the conversation, you get us off. No, all I have to say is that they like this show was part of the invention of first wave feminism. Yeah, that's fair when you really, when you really look at it, I mean, I would imagine it would be hard to look back on and it and it sometimes is, and it is.

There was so much revolution to it, but it's always with fits and starts, because you do you're like seeing for the first time, you know, all these women saying important things and doing what everybody else was happening at the time. You know, it was very present in what it was talking about, from the hair and the big I mean, I wore those giant shoulder pads and big hair and and I'm telling you the battle the sexes to try and talk about that, no way, like, no way, you couldn't have a normal conversation about that. I'm sure it was. And it was like that at the water cooler. It was totally like that at the water cooler.

And the sad thing about the dancing at the end, I mean, that's what we had to do. That's so part of just being living first wave feminism, which I know is very you know, white female, upper middle class in many ways because you know, I when I hear I'm sorry, but when I hear Susanne sugar Baker talking about Consuela, it's really kind of hard and her voodoo dull it was hard. So you know what I'm saying, It's like fits and stars, but that stuff was like unbelievable to see just in general. I also love that that conversation comes from an Oprah clip, right, not only because like that's very funny and again going back to like what show is putting in real life footage as part of the script, but also like we could do a whole thing on Oprah as a media figure, and like the way she was working to be a pioneer in her field to have different conversations.

How has that shape shifted over time as her like wealth has a mass, right, Like there's so much to unpack around the Oprah of it all, and so there is something of like this fat black woman Like that is like Oprah's thing is that she's constantly battling her weight, right, is talking about the battle of the sexes, and then that's what incites this like ranting, raving riot amongst these like rich white people trapped in a ski lodge. And then they just dance at the end, like like I don't know that it's intended to be funny, but there is something funny about like that story arc. And and to Melissa's point, right, like the start and stop and start and stop of these conversations is true to history, right, Like we make a big step forward and then we're pushed three steps back, and then we take a big leap and then something side swipes us right, like in in thinking about like revolutions, and in like the change of culture and society.

It's not linear and it isn't like it doesn't it doesn't move smoothly, and so like some of that clunkiness feels true to life. I think all of us recognize though, too, that like we're watching these shows out of context in that we do not live in the time period in which they are being released, and like with an acknowledgment that so much has changed stylistically, right, and like what we look for in television shows and the shows we know and love and are like, yeah, they're handling this conversation perfectly. Maybe they're standing on the backs of the shows that we're watching for this, Yeah, I think all of us like absolutely, I hope all of us absolutely recognize that too. But on the flip side of that, watching these shows and especially something like Designing Women and seeing the promise of I guess that's one of the things we're talking about on this podcast, the promise of what we were seeing for women in television in the eighties, and how far back we've gone in a lot of ways, or maybe just not moved forward really in a lot of way.

Kavanaugh hearings were. I thought everything that could dislodge from my mind had dislodged from my mind and heart in twenty sixteen. But then that happened, Yeah, and it felt so insane, not unexpected, but nevertheless, and yet it was just so freaking insane that we're doing the exact same thing as what happened in nineteen ninety one. Me and a group of friends got together for Katanji Brown Jackson's swearing in like we like took the day off work. We went and watched it on a TV in public, like this was our sporting event, right.

And the thing is, like, there were so many parallels to the way people treated and talked to Anita, to the way that they talked to Katanji, to the way that they did not talk to Kavanaugh or what's her face? I refuse to put her name into my brain. And again this goes into that deeper conversation of which actually I just saw the Beyonce movie on Thursday. She makes a point about this, about the way that people speak to black women in particular is disrespectful as hell. And again coming back to one and eight men things that they could beat Strina Williams.

The number of people that I'm sure talked to beyoncey like she was an idiot simply because she was a woman. She's a black woman. She may not work specifically in their field, but this is not her first rodeo as someone who originally saw Beyonce perform in a park for free on Juneteenth because I am from Houston, or talk about nineties baby, I have been writing hard. But again, the way people will choose to speak to people based on their privilege and status and identities in life, right like huge Insecure fan, and we see her struggle Easter Ray struggle with we got y'all, and like the way black women are spoken to in the workplace and the nonprofit industrial complex. Right we see Molly this like badass lawyer having to leave her top tier form because these white people have her confused.

And so again thinking about coming back to designing women, I promise I'll land the plane. These women, in a lot of ways are supposed to be at the top of their fields, right, like they not only have an interior design business, but a successful interior design business. You see the house like they are at the top of their fields and yet at a certain point, like patriarchy will always find a way, like men will always find a way to remind you that you are not a cis white man. And again, for better or for worse, for clunkiness whatever. We see that in that episode of like it does not matter rich Whitely, which like this is the critique of first wave feminism.

Right, I don't care how rich you are. You're still a woman, and these men don't care about you. But like, it doesn't matter where you are, who your relationship. These are supposed to be your partners, And this is how these men talk to you. Like, this is malehook, this is patriarchy, This is in action in real time, and you're not always going to have an eloquent rebuttal like sometimes it's just a rage of like, you've got me to edit this one's been off the right now, this is great.

This is the eleven o'clock ran. Yeah, you got that right on time night in Texas. God, that speech is iconic. Ray Dawn, and she threw her baton so high that it knocked the transfer. It's so good.

Oh that's my eleventh hour speech. I love it. I love it. We didn't even get to talk about the lying game aka a difficult cross to bear and the cross dressing episode of Designing Women, which I had forgotten about. Same and how great Jan hooks as a guy.

I was like that, honestly, it was it was you don't again, I do like that, And that's where I think no one else would have thought to do that cross dressing episode in that way except for Designing Women, and it was it was very first wave FEMINIMSM, which is okay, but what if we did it. We'll just do it. So if you're going to say this, then we're going to do that and see what that feels like. Both Rich and I were like, well, why can't they date? Like I think that would be cool to see them go out like in thirty Rock.

Yeah. I had two thoughts coming out of it, and the first is not my question to answer, but was a legitimate question I had, which was are these jokes at the expense of the person who is like behaving differently in this scenario or are they at the expense of the people who are being judgmental and I couldn't quite tell. And I don't know if I'm the person to answer that question. And the other question was, wait, why aren't they together? Why would we've like ranted about like how much these men suck when you found one who is absolutely in touch with the feminine and it's completely respectful of you.

Why wouldn't your datum what? Why didn't assume one way or the other? I mean I did at the end of that episode, Well, they say, she say. She says like, well, I guess we should just be friends. We should.

I'd like you write, you were right, we should just be friends. And I was like, what why you was so handsome? Yeah yeah, and beautiful yeah, and beautiful hot. It was just fair. It was thank you for that thirty Rock reference.

Yeah, that is such a brilliant Yes. Anyway, well there you go. We brought it from designing Women to thirty Rock and uh. And but I do have one question that has nothing to do with designing women. Do you are you guys aware of ladies of the eighties of Diva's Christmas?

I know, Sergio, you are what No, I never tell us what is so inform us? I'm legitimately not I need to know everything. It is part of Lifetimes. It's a wonderful Lifetime holiday movie series. We talked about it in our last episode because we talked to the co writer, Stan Zimmerman, who pretty much started his career.

He and his partner on eighties television shows, including the first season of The Golden Girls. They co wrote this movie that's basically about these eighties stars from this long time soap opera that's about to end, that's been running for fifty years, and so they are going to have a big holiday special and they bring back all these stars. And so it's these five divas coming in for this last episode. They've brought them back, and of course then they you know, chaos and sues. Yes, can I propose a Patreon special?

That's what I would like to do. No idea I've ever had has ever been original. I will happily do a live viewing. Oh yeah, like we should all get on zoom and watch and just like have our real time reaction. Yeah, we gotta figure out if we can pull that off.

It. Maybe I'm crazy because we were not going to schedule another thing, but we we might have to because I was thinking of you guys. I'm like, because you guys love that, right, Like, who watches the holiday Christmas Like totally silly? Okay, all right, Megan doesn't, but that's okay, we'll force her because Beef Again, Drink. It's Lannie Anderson and fair Child, Donna Mills, Nicolae Sheridan, and Linda Gray and Linda Gray from Big Cute Like Giant Giant Stars from the eighties.

Thank you, guys. We really appreciate your watching the shows and discussing with us. It's always such a treat and something we look forward to as we go through each show. It's absolutely a treat, especially for me, who is like not well versed in eighties TV at all. It is so fun to go back and sit in that decade and experience all of this and dissect it and enjoy it and laugh and yeah, it's a delight.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you guys. Bye guys, Bye friends. So a question for our listeners and you, Sharon that came to mind during this episode when the Kavanaugh hearings were happening. Was there a television show, comedy or drama that spoke directly to the Kavanaugh hearings? Other than like a Saturday Night Live sketch or something.

Was there a television show that did something like what Designing Women did for the Clarence Thomas hearings? You know, it was much easier to be able to tell that back then because there were or a lot fewer shows at the time. But my guess would be no, mainly because streaming shows are shot well in advance, for one thing, network shows are not. But listening to Linda talk about the turnaround time between when the Clarence Thomas hearings happened and when that show aired, I can't see another show turning it around that quickly. I mean, it's possible, but I and I can't think of I don't think.

I'm not sure in this today's environment that they would be able to. And then also thinking about the various shows that are out there, let's just talk about network television because they're the ones that could have done it quickest. I don't know of any if we're talking about scripted television that would be something that would fit into whatever storyline they were dealing with. I mean, even law in Order takes a while to get to that kind of stuff, and they're always oblique about it. They're not direct about it, so I would guess no, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Yeah. All right, So, listeners, if you know of a show that did that or something like that, we're speaking directly to a very divisive moment in what was happening in real life, but that they tried to address some of that in a television show for current events, I would be very curious. But it just struck me. I was like, I wonder if what that would even look like in modern times? Right?

And we have other ways to talk about it, we have the Internet talk about it, but I thought that was such an interesting way to address what a lot of people were feeling and thinking of the time. And we have another question or that came to mind about holiday movies. Listeners, do you watch them? What are your favorite channels for holiday movie watching? Do you have a favorite movie or type of movie that you enjoy when it comes to holiday movies.

We'd love to hear from you for our audioography. Today, you can find out about the nineties TV babies and how to find them and their podcasts in our description. We also wanted to give a shout out to the Lifetime movie called Ladies of the Eighties at Divas Christmas. And if you want to read a little more about the real happenings behind the strange case of Clarence and Anita, there's a really interesting MTV news article written in twenty sixteen when the Confirmation TV movie came out that took that was actually really useful when I was trying to go back and remind myself. So we'll have a link in our description.

Thank you all so much for listening to Eighties TV Ladies. If you like this show, please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Good Pods, wherever you listen. And if you're really liking the show, consider supporting us on Patreon. You can help us make more episodes and you get videos, perks, and ad free episodes. Go to patreon dot com slash Eighties tv Ladies.

Be sure to tune in for our next episode. We're pushing pause on Designing Women for a moment. Next week we will have one of our episodes that looks at female directors from the nineteen eighties. Many of them are still working today, like our next guest, Mary lou Belli. That's right, Mary Lou is nominated for an Emmy this year for her work on the Miss Pat Show for b Et, so we are wishing her a big win next month and the Emmys don't forget our January fifteenth, twenty twenty four, We hope Eighties Steee Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch, all of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the twenty first century.

Happy holiday and Sharon, Happy Holiday, Susan and Melissa and Kevin, Thank you so pretty day through the city, stable up and off in training of gipping, working hard for the money in the banker anything Lie Bas