The Golden Girls of Eastland: Anupam Nigam Shares His Favorite Lessons from The Facts Of Life

Weirdy, weird media. Eiles, hand so Pretty, through the City Trained gunning Man World. Welcome to Eighties TV Ladies, where women hold up half the sky and your favorite TV show season runs for twenty three episodes. Here are your fabulous hosts, Susan Lambert HadAM and Sharon Johnson. Hello.

I'm Susan, and we are learning way too many facts of life this year the hard way. And I'm Sharon, and we're still here and staying strong. I think it's important to be standing in conversation with joy and connection in these times of chaos. Yes, and I am super excited for today, Sharon, I'm so thrilled we get to interview our next guest in person in the eighty studio aka my garage. I love bringing in modern television makers to talk about the eighties Ladies shows that influenced them or inspired them, and today's guest is one of those.

Oh gosh, Yes, I love when we can do in person interviews and hearing stories about how those eighties shows may have influenced someone's love of TV the world, or maybe inspired them to go to Hollywood, or darn it, they just enjoyed the heck out of. It today's show, we'll kick off a series of episodes where we're going to look at one of the longest running sitcoms and one of the few all female casts of the eighties, The Facts of Life. The show ran from August twenty fourth, nineteen seventy nine to May seventh, nineteen eighty eight, on NBC. It was a spinoff of a vastly successful comedy, Different Strokes. The Facts of Life was created by Dick Clair and Jenna McMahon, who also created It's a Living and Mama's Family.

Facts of Life starred Charlotte Ray playing n Garrett, the former housekeeper for the Drummond family in Different Strokes, who became the new house mother at the Eastland School for Girls in Peakskill, New York. And by season three, The Facts of Life is the number one comedy on NBC and number two for the network overall, beating out the show that spawned Different Strokes. The show runs for nine seasons and three TV movies, The Facts of Life Ghost to Paris in nineteen eighty three, The Facts of Life Down Under nineteen eighty seven, and the Facts of Life Reunion in two thousand and one. Today's guest comes to us because his partner worked with my partner. So shout out to Sharene Razik, who worked with Rich on the CW show Secret Circle.

Onupon Niggum is a season television writer and producer from New Jersey, born to Indian immigrant parents. First he was certified as an EMT and then worked as a lab researcher for Johnson and Johnson, but he traded his scalp for scripts when he was swept to Los Angeles to participate in the Warner Brothers Drama Writers Workshop. On a Palm has written on a wide variety of shows, from comedies to dramas. He worked as a writer producer on the popular USA show Psych for four seasons, and co ran Disney x T show mech x four, a favorite of mine, and Dashes when he was little. On a Pomp.

Served as co executive producer on Shondaland's Grey's Anatomy spinoff Station nineteen and the sci fi drama Defiance. He is currently co executive producer on CBS's Fire Country. We are so happy to have you here. Welcome to eighties TV ladies, anovam. Thank you so much for having me, Thank you so much for joining us.

We're going to have a good time today. I think we are. I'm so glad we finally got you on the show. I remember being out at dinner with you and Sharen and chatting about eighties TV ladies as we do all the time, and trying to get Sharen on the show, and she was like, oh, no, you need to talk have on on And then you were like, oh, yeah, I love Facts of Light. That's right, yeah, And I was like, okay, I thought that happened here at one of your parties.

I think I was a little tipsy. But that The funny thing is the fact that I was a giant Facts of Life fan was not even made aware to me until maybe four or five years ago. Now why did you not know that? I just watched it. I mean I watched it all the time, and I watched the reruns and all that, and I always loved it.

But it wasn't until I was in probably the second female driven TV show, female empowerment TV show. I was on where I was in the writer's room and I was saying, you know what they did on the Facts of Life. They did this amazing episode on Facts of Life where and everyone was like, can you just tell us what one episode of the show is like. And I picked one of my favoritees and like basically narrated to them. And they were all on the edge of their seats too.

They're like, the show sounds amazing. Wait a minute, they hadn't watched it. A lot of them had not. Oh gosh, see I'm not the only one yourself. But when the showrunner of that show, she made personalized gifts for everyone.

I got a TV set with the Facts of Life logo on it as a Christmas ornament. I love that. That is fantastic. My parents were born in India. They didn't have television growing up, and so I was born here in New Jersey.

I feel like inside my house was like India, Like we ate Indian food, there was Indian art on the walls and like that. My parents mostly listened to Indian music. But outside the house, of course, it was New Jersey, it was America. So I was like television was like sort of my window into like this is how American families behave, This is how American families, you know, do their normal routine of their dance. But it was also I was like, oh, this is how different forgive me, white families are and some black families.

To my Indian family, we ate dinner later because my parents observed British tea time, which is at like five o'clock, so they would have snacks, and and also Indians like we eat with our hands, you know. American families don't really do either of those things. And I would be like, oh, that's interesting. They're different from me. And where in India are your parents from.

They're both from a state called out Predaesh. My dad is from a city called Conpour and my mom is from a city called On a map, it'll say Varanasi, but anyone who's from there calls it Binars. Okay. Why is there the difference in what it's called? Is it?

I'm not really sure. I think that one's more colloquial. But some of some of the differences are because of the British ah. Okay, and so tea time. They did that in India because.

Of British because of British colonialism. As far as I know, Yeah, that makes sense, it's perfect sense. So were there other eighties ladies TV shows you watched at the time or. I feel like I was a sponge for American television. So I watched a little bit of everything, like I've seen like it's a living and I don't want to remember this, a show called She's the Sheriff, Like I watched a little bit of oh vaguely, yeah.

Vaguely, Oh my gosh. And there were also like seventies shows that bled into the eighties, like Thre's Company kind of fled into the Like everything re ran back then too. It's so different and from the way we watched TV now, Like even when I was a kid, like Bewitched and Batman and Star Trek would rerun even thirty forty years after a broadcast, so you could even watch shows like from the Wayback Machine. How did your parents feel about you watching a lot of TV? There were they okay with it.

I think they were okay with it. Like I said, they didn't grow up with it, so it was like kind of a new thing for them too, And I think there was a little bit of oh, we're giving our child something we didn't have when we were growing up. But there were definitely times they'd be like turn that off, go do your homework, go to bed, or something like that. The thing I remembered distinctly was. I don't know if anyone remembers the opening credits of La Law.

Oh gosh, is this a license plate? Would come down, Yes, that said La Law, and my dad would be like, bed that, I hate that license plate, and then TV time is over because I think that was Thursday night, like the whole if I'm allowed to say it, Cosby Show, Fam and Tize, Cheers, Night Court. Yeah, you know that whole night was like crazy. Yeah, that was the ten o'clock show. Yeah for a while.

So did your parents put any restrictions on TV watching as you were growing up? If they saw me watching this was more movies, like movies that aired on TV. If it was like too violent or there was like bad language or too sexual, like my dad would. Like shut it off, shut it down. Yeah.

They were also like like talk shows at the time, you know, like that would get into like kind of real sexual type stuff that he would be like, turn that off, like afternoon talk shows. You know that. You'd be like, all right, no, you're not allowed to hear this. My mom did not want me to watch Three's Company because she felt it was too sexual, even though the whole point was that they weren't theory make sex. The funny thing is like my grandmother who lived with us for a little bit.

She couldn't speak that much English, but with Three's Company, if you just gave her Jack Tripper trying to get into a hammock, she was like, this is brilliant. This is the greatest thing. This thing transcends race, transcends language. Pratfalls and physical comedy does transcend, right. Yeah, that's why the silent film comedians are still remembered.

My dad was in the Air Force and so we were living over there and all the TV still watch TV, but it was all in Japanese. Had no idea what they were saying, but I sort of figured it out. But there was this show on Saturday nights that was absolutely huge and it was a lot of physical comedy. There was a lot of slapsticky stuff. You didn't need to understand what the heck they were saying to get the jokes and stuff.

So, yeah, that really does slapstick in physical comedy. I think a lot of ways really does transcend language. It may be the only thing in the world that explains Benny Hill, which my dad did find funny and which I always found not funny. A little that went a long way for me too. But yeah, the other thing I'll say about my parent letting me watch stuff is I think a lot of American jokes went over their heads.

Like characters could be talking about sex or drugs or something and they just wouldn't have they really understand the jargon and the slang and stuff like. So you were the child of immigrants? Was that in New Jersey? Was that difficult? Were you in a community of immigrants?

There was an Indian community nearby? Sort of lived in both worlds, Like, you know, I had an older brother too, any kind of weird culture shock things we faced together. Maybe it was a little difficult at first, but like when you're in like elementary school, you eventually just become friends with everyone, and you know, like after that, it just stops being weird. I kind of like, strangely feel like my house was one of the places where kids would congregate. You would think that like that we congregated some white kid's house, But for some reason, like my house was more a place where like kids would just kind of hang out and stuff.

Maybe because we had a lot of food. Indians are big on making sure people are fed, so maybe we just had a lot of snacks and stuff. There you go. You started down the path of science and medicine, right right, So you started down the path of being an EMT. A doctor actually a doctor because my father is a doctor.

Okay, he's retired now, and he was a cardiologist in New Jersey. He opened a private practice in New Jersey. So I figured, oh, I mean, my dad seems to have We live in a nice house, we drive okay cars like and you get to help people. So I figured I'll give that a shot. I was pre med in college and I graduated with a degree and bylogy and a minor in like computer applications or something like that.

And at the time, a lot of people were saying it's good to have life experience before you apply to medical school. And so that's when I got certified as an EMT. And I was actually doing lab research for Johnson and Johnson at the same time he was doing that EMT thing that I was kind of like, I'm not sure I'm cut out for. The real life like blood stuff. Not the blood stuff.

I was just like, you have to do a certain number of hours in an emergency room to get certified, and it was when I was there that I was like, I don't think I fit in here, Like it just didn't feel intuitive to me. And like there was even a point where, ironically because I've worked on two firefighter shows, they brought a firefighter in with smoke inhalation and they were sort of like waving everyone over to help, and like my instinct was to like run and hide. So I was just like, maybe this isn't the best the best fit for me. And the funny thing is like since I was pre met, I had a lot of friends who ended up going to medical school and they all said, like, you get over that, Like that's normal, you would have gotten over it, but I was just like I was not sure I would.

So yeah, I thought I wanted to be a vet, and so I helped out my family that he was like, come spend the day, you know, spend the week, and so I helped out, and I was like, oh, I can do this, I can do this. And then there was a dog that was brought in that was very ill in theory. I was like, Okay, I understand. But then later when I was cleaning out around the cages and they had put him down, this dog I was like, oh, yeah, no, I'm not going to be able to do this. This is not going to work out for Susan's heart very well.

Yeah, I can certainly understand that. At what point did you start writing? So I had graduated from college, I was living with my parents again. I was doing lib research for Johnson and Johnson in New Jersey. And like I said, I had always watched a ton of television and also one hour of dramas, and I had sort of always been like a TV nut job.

There was just this one day. I'm a big Star Trek fan also, and there was a day that I missed an episode of the show that was on at the time was Star Trek Voyager, and I missed an episode and I just went online to read like a summary of it or something, and there was a link that said script writing on this website. And I said, what, why would a Star Trek website have this link? And I clicked on it and learned that Star Trek at the time, it's not true now, at the time had a deal with the Writers Guild that allowed fans to submit scripts. And that's like the sort of the first like Flare in the Air was like, oh, I should try writing television.

I had sort of tried writing some comic book scripts at that time, and I sort of started trying to write a more like Kevin Smith asked low budget film, you know, like about like an Indian American kid. But like when I saw that, I sort of switched gears to try and write a Star Trek Voyager script. And this is the thing ignorance was bliss. I didn't even know there was screenwriting softwares, Like I just wrote it on Microsoft Word. I used a ruler on a sample script base.

You're like, Okay, the character names going this far, the dialogue name goes in that far. And I sort I wrote a Star Trek Voyage like that. Send it off. They get one hundred, maybe thousands of scripts from people, and actually came back to me Stamp saying he was logged in the Paramount library and a very nice letter saying we're ending Star Trek Voyager this year, so we don't really need fan scripts and stuff, but thank you for your interest in blah blah. But that's like what started me off, was like, oh, I'm going to try and do this.

And when you got that right back, was that like I mean obviously you would rather they had said, oh, do it, that's right, But just getting a response did that feel like encouragement? It was encouragement actually, Like I feel like just doing lib research in New Jersey Hollywood was this just sort of impenetrable bubble. And I didn't go to film school, you know. I went to NYU, one of the best film schools like in the world, and I didn't take one. I took maybe one class to fulfill a requirement or something like that.

I remember like, when I was at NYU, I would hear Tisch students that's the film school for one doesn't know. The tissudents were like having an argument over what the best Madonna video was. And I was like, this is how you're spending your college money. Like this place is expensive. You know, I'm going.

To pre med I'm like getting killed by organic chemistry over here, and you're talking about that. And then it was years later I was like, oh, why didn't I take one class while I was there? When my parents knew I was a big entertainment fan and I love movie and television, and so when I had graduated from college, as a gift, they got me a subscription at Entertainment Weekly, and Entertainment Weekly ended up doing a how to Break into Showbiz issue and so I read that issue, like, you know, front to back in like ten seconds, it felt like. And they had a list of places you could send spec scripts, and by then I had pretty much, I think, finished a Law and Order spec. Law and Order was gigantic at the time, and I was like still kind of like a scientist, and Law and Order had a formula, so like the scientists, and he like cracked the formula pretty easily.

So it was the original law Order, the flagship lawn Order, the original recipe lawn Order. That's right exactly, which is back now? Yes? Is it the same recipe? Yeah?

Yeah. I sent that Law and Order off to some of the contests in that thing and to online contests, and then I actually quit my research job because they wanted to promote me. I was like unemployed, living with my parents and like this is not normal for an Indian kid, by the way, who went to be like pre meda stuff Like there's like why aren't you in medical school right now? Yeah? And were they were they getting nervous?

Were they weren't sing you? They weren't nervous. They weren't pressuring me. I think there was a part of them that liked having me in the house again. And then I get a booming call.

One of the things I applied to was a Warner Brothers drama writer's workshop. I get this sort of booming call from Los Angeles from these two lovely women, Debbie Proman and Abbe Finder, who were taking over the program, and they said, so, you're the only person who's made it this far in our process who doesn't already live in Los Angeles. Again, I was like ignorance as places. I didn't know that the majority of people that apply to these programs are like script coordinators and writers' assistants and people who were already out here working on it. And they said, you've made it into like the semi finals, but we need to know if you'll move to Los Angeles, if you'll get in, and I was like, yes, definitely, it's not a problem, and like I'm sitting parents exactly.

And the funny thing is, I think at the time, like my high school alumni association was trying to get back in touch with me, and I didn't want them to know. I was like just still living home, so like make my mom answer the phone like a child. And then she was like, yeah, hello Warner Brothers. What and I like grabbed the phone for It's like, give me that. And so they said if you move, They said, we just need to if you'll move to Los Angeles and you'll get a for you, we'll do a phone interview.

Everyone else had an interview in person, we'll do a phone interview for you and then we'll let you know what the results are. I don't remember how long it was, maybe a week or two later they told me I was in So yeah, I flew out to Los Angeles to be in that program. And that's when I first started trying to be a real writer. And that was two thousand, two thousand, two thousand and three, two thousand and three. That is amazing.

So as someone who also was and still is an avid television watcher, I never heard to me as I was growing up to try to write something. What was the impetus to make you kind of go, huh, I want to try. To write this. Yeah. I don't think I really thought about it much as a kid.

I think I was like sort of like like a lot of kids. They said, I'm just gonna do what my dad did. So I was sort of on that track for a long time. I think it was probably because pre med at NYU was pretty tough, so you were studying all the time. I think it was probably after that.

Like again, like I said, I was always the person who knew who directed what movie, who starred in what movie, who did what episode of what television show. I was always like that person. So I already had like this, all this information soaked into my brain. And I was also as a kid, I was one of the few people who watched reruns. Like my friends would be like, well that already aired, I've already seen that episode of television.

I'm like, well, what does that matter. I'm completely and like just watching the same thing over and over again, you start to realize, like, oh, there's a structure to this. There is like never curtain me. Honestly, never occurred to me, at least not until much much later. That's somebody actually had to sit down and write this thing.

Yeah, I'm fascinated by that. And I think also the Kevin Smith thing. He was from New Jersey. He didn't I think he went to film school, but he wasn't like in the mainstream media and he just made a movie and so I was like, oh, so there are ways to do this that don't involve going to film school and stuff like he put it all on his credit cards clerks. Yeah, you know.

And I was at NYU when it came, like it's all they were talking about. So I was at Sundan's that year, So. Like that sort of started me thinking like, oh, this is a thing that you can do without having got work film school or living in La already. And so you fly out to LA because you now have a job. It's a fellowship, you know, and they would introduce you to agents and managers and network execs and stuff like that and hopefully get you staffed.

There wasn't a commitment to we're going to get you staffed on one of our shows kind of thing. Not a commitment. They were just like, we're going to try our best. Okay, well it's better than yeah. I mean for me, it was all gravy.

For me, I was just like just being out here, being able to drive onto a studio lot like and my name is at the gate and stuff like that. Like everything was like awesome to me. That is amazing. And would we say this was a diversity program. At the time, No, Okay, my class I think was like half people of color and half white people.

And I think as it progressed, it became more and more of a diversity program. Because somebody might be trying to shut these down right now, But the point was to find different points of view, that's right, right. The point was to find young people who weren't basically legacy Hollywood people right to come in and start writing right so that they could then write for the wide variety of audiences that are in America. Correct. And I was a benefit of Title nine and diversity programs to get into USC.

I imagine if I had applied ten years earlier, they would have not been all that excited about a girl from Georgia. Sure, so I'm curious what you think of that kind of program then and now. I think they're great if they're utilized properly, because what a lot of a lot of networks did for a while is they would have a free staff writer position, or just a historically underrepresented writer could fill that position, and so a lot of people would come out of those programs, and if the show was there to nurture you and mentor you and hopefully help you move up the food chain. They're like fantastic. I feel like I've heard every possible version of what happens with people who come out of this program.

There are some shows that just see it as a free staff writer and rather than promote that person, so they're being the next step up is story editor, and it comes with a salary bump and all that, and rather than spend that money, they say, we'll just bring in a new free staff right. So, I think they're great at bringing in unique voices, voices with points of view that maybe showrunners don't have access to, and hopefully lead to better representation of underrepresented people on television, helping those characters feel authentic. So it's great in that respect. But sometimes, like everything it sometimes it's not used for what. It's purpose exactly exactly.

It's almost a little like a case by case basis. Like this person had a good experience, this person had a not so good. Experience, but your experience was good. Mine was great. It was great, Like the Warner's Workshop was a huge deal for me.

Like again, like ignorance was blazed. I didn't know what I was taking on. I didn't realize the herculean task and the mountain I was trying to climb at this time. So I was just like, Okay, let's see what happens, you know. And so again I was lucky in that respect, and I didn't staff right out of the program.

I ended up getting a job coincidentally enough on a show that starred Nancy McKeon, which was the division excellent. But then the next show I went on, I actually took a step backwards to be the medical researcher on an NBC show probably not many people remember, called Medical Investigation. But when a staff writer slot opened up, it was one of those diversity slots. So and since I was a personal color and I was already working the show as a researcher, we'll give it to him. So I was very grateful for the fact that those slots existed, Like my first job wasn't, so I got a taste of what it was like to go through the normal process.

But I was also very grateful that there was another lane for me to go and go back up to staff writer. That's amazing. So that was your first it was called Medical. The division was my first division. Which starred Nancy McKinnon from Well Yeah, I also had Believe it or not.

Like Nancy McKean was one of the A story cops. The B story cops were John Hamm and Taraji Henson. Nice when you got to call home and go I have my first job. Parents, Yeah, were they happy about that? They were very, very happy.

I think when they really got happy was when they saw my name on television. I think that was really the point where like, oh, this all became real, you know, so that was more of a thing and like they like would show it to friends and stuff like that. Anyone who came through the door had to watch my episode of the Division. That's fantastic. Now did you get to go to set?

I did not get to go to set. I went to the read through where I saw all of the actors reading the script and I made like one sort of funny joke in it that sort of stopped the room with drags for a moment. I was like, Oh, that's pretty cool. There was like a scientific thing in it, and someone was like, how do you pronounce this? I'm like, oh, it's uh estra dial, you know, And like suddenly I was like a person that people like ask for advice or something like that.

That pre med kind of helped you out. It did. It's a funny thing. It helped me out a lot when I was lucky enough to get an agent after the Warner's workshop. You know, when you're trying to get network execs and studio execs to meet with people like having a different background than their hearings, like oh, this person went to UCLA or usc film school and it was like, oh no, this person didn't go to film school.

They were actually pre med and blah blah blah. That sort of like would make people go, oh that's interesting, like I'll meet with him. Yeah, yeah, it makes you stand out. So how did you end up on Psych? On Psych?

Again, I just went through kind of the routine staffing experience. I didn't really know anyone there, and I went in to meet with Steve Franks who's the creator, Kelly Kolchek and Chris Hensey who were executive producer on the show, and I had a good meeting with them and I ended up getting the job. It was like what, hopefully how staffing should work? Absolutely, and then you work. Then you were able to stay on that show.

Yeah, for several seasons and work your way up. Being on that show. I was on it for four straight seasons, where I was like, oh, I have a career. I have a writing career. I'm not just a person who gets writing jobs.

This is a career I do now. It was a great experience because they sent me to set, which was in Vancouver. Any like production experience I had, I learned mostly on that show. And who did you love working with on Psych? Who some of your favorite showrunners or writers or everyone there was great.

I have to say it was a fantastic experience. The show runner, Steve Franks, was amazing because, like, I was really hired more for mystery stuff, like mystery structure stuff. And when I got there in the first day, they were like everyone was talking about it like it was a comedy and I was like, oh, I'm not sure I'm in the right place. So Steve was great at letting me get my comedy chops up and stuff like that. When we would do read throughs of the scripts and roundtable scripts at jokes and stuff, I felt completely encouraged to pitch jokes to not just mystery stuff things like that, And there was a reason the thing ran for so long.

It ran for something like eight or nine season. They're still making movies. I think that everyone on the show just got along. Everyone in the show was like friends. There was I don't remember feeling there was any weird like political stuff on set or anything like.

Also, I think it was the vibe of the show. If you've ever seen the show, it's sort of like a laid back, fun funny show. Every episode okay, oh. Excellent, excellent. It's the kind of show that they don't make a lot of because it's sort of comedy drama exactly mystery.

You know, it was obvious time because there were a lot of like dark procedurals out at the time, like Without a Trace in CSI and Cold Case. These things were so popular at this point that see was like, what if we did a different take on that, like a lighter, funner thing. And it's something that even like younger people are starting to discover. When I was up in Vancouver shooting Fire Country, the director's son came to visit and they were speaking of Spanish, but I heard the word psych like blah blah blah, and he was pointing at me. It's like psych and the kids eyes like lit up.

He was like you wrote on Psych. I watched it on Peacock and I was like wow, really, So after Psych I went to a Sci Fi channel show called Defiance, okay, and then after that show called mech x four and they wanted someone they wanted to be darker and more serialized, which Defiance was. And like when you described the premise, it was like robots versus monsters and stuff like stop talking. I know I met. I know exactly who you want.

So I met with Steve. Everything was fantastic. Watched the presentation. It all went fantastically and you know, so yeah, I ended up show running that with Steve for two seasons. It was like one of the best experiences I had and telling them it's on Disney Plus if you're curious.

But it's one of the few shows that even sometimes I'll throw on and watch and be like, oh, yeah, I remember this episode. We broke this episode and it turned out really well. Yeah. And then you went to work for Station nineteen. That's right.

Yeah, And how was Shondaland do you get like a like a little like get Disney University Day? Did you get sha. Sadly, no, I think I met her twice in real life, like just to give you an idea of how big her empire is. There was a day we were working in the writer's room and the elevator was like the elevator to go up to her office was nearby, and she just like popped her head and watched, like what show is this? And we're like, oh, we're the We didn't have a title yet either.

We were just called the untitled Gray's Anatomy spin off or ugas for sure, and so we were like, oh, we're We're this spin out. It's just like, oh, I thought this was that show. And then she went to her Where were you located for the writer's room for that one? Season one? Was it Sunset Gower, okay?

And then we sort of in season two, I think we moved full time to Sunset Las Palmas in season two, and then season three it moved again to Prospect. I worked to Prospect, Oh, okay from two thousand and seven eight until two thousand and oh, for goodness sake, how much time has gone by anyway for seven or eight years, so I know where the Grays Anatomy writers they were in that bunk bungalow yeah, those two bungalows over there. But I wasn't I know that Shanda had an office in the Sunset Tower building, and so I was wondering if maybe that's where you guys might have been. Yeah, our stages were at sun ci Les Palmers when our room moved around. We moved in season three to Prospect because they wanted more integration with the Grays writing staff.

So what did they want from you on Station nineteen Seation nineteen. Again, it was that being certified as an EMT thing, I think was the real reason I got in there. They were looking for someone. I think one of my agents are like, oh, you know, undid that un has that training, and they're like, oh, we'll send them over. And it was like a huge deal for me because I loved working on mechx four, being like on a half hour comedy action family show.

I loved it. But I was also like, but I'm really a one hour drama writer, Like I would gladly go back to that world now, but I didn't want to get like stuck there. I would have wanted the ability to go back and forth. Yeah, and so like I was a little bit nervous about that and then like one day my agents call and say, so, we have a meeting for you. It's a spinoff of Gray's Anatomy on ABC and Channel and I was like, oh, this is perfect.

This is exactly what I want to be. Able to have the ability to go back and forth between kids in one hour drama. That's amazing. The funny thing is, you know, at the time, there weren't a ton of Indian writers out there looking to staff on stuff. And I knew the showrunner was from Texas, and in my head, I was like, she probably never met an Indian person.

I'll be a unicorn to her, like she'll just think it's like fascinating. And I go in there and I make a joke about how hard my name is to pronounce. She's like, oh, I totally understand that my husband's Indians, so I know exactly what you're going through. I was like, Ah, I lost my unicorns, but now I have to earn this on merit like switch tactics completely. You know, now you're the firefighter person.

Yes, yeah, and you're on fire Country. Have you learned more about firefighters? I have. Actually, it's funny because there's different kinds of firefighting Station nineteen was what you call structural firefighters, which is like putting out buildings on fire and stuff like that, whereas Fire Country is about wild land fire fighters, and it's also about innate firefighters, like that's a big part of the show. So yeah, I learned a lot about how different that kind of firefighting is from structural firefighting.

What was it like to sort of have the fires in LA having worked on the show? Did it give you comfort or fear? Fear? Mostly because like when you work on a show about fire, all you do all day is read like terrible articles about oh these are all the things that could go wrong, terribly wrong. Yeah, I hate to say this selfishly, there was a part of me that was, like, if people are watching fire on the news all day, what appetite will they have for watching a show about fire?

Like, I won't lie. I had that little concern, like our concerns were like everyone in LA was like the firefighters and everyone's safety and people losing their homes and stuff. But I did have all one percent fear about that. All right, Well, have we covered enough of this episode? Yes, And maybe it's time to take a little break and then we'll come back and actually talk about the facts of life.

I don't know we could talk about I know this, but TV about TV. All right, we'll be right back. And now it's time for some facts of life talk. Yay, excellent. What did you remember about?

What I remember most about Facts of I think it's like two things. One is that the show always moved forward. I feel like at the time, sitcoms wanted to maintain a status quo where things didn't change on the show, and so like you could drop in at any time and you could air them out of order all like it is syndication, you have to worry about what order you aired them in. But I felt like Facts of Life, like the characters were always growing and moving forward. You see Blair and Joe graduate from high school on the show and go to college, and you see them in college, and you know, it's the show kept changing.

Like in season one, it's like mostly takes place in that dorm that dormitory, yeah, and then season two through five is kind of like more in the school, like that cafeteria and looking all that stuff. And then by season five, Edna's running her own bit business, and then by like season seven, that business gets burned down and it becomes a new business. Like I feel like if you watch an episode from like season eight where Cloris Leachman is there and the young ladies are mostly grown up, it looks very different from season one. It almost looks like a completely different show. Yes, because it's a different set all together.

And then yeah, I agree, it's weird that way. It's unusual for the time. Right, and the girls have grown so they I guess they almost were forced to, but still they seem to lean into it in ways that sometimes other shows don't kind of take their time moving forward. Yeah, it's like it didn't get that thing. Like a lot of people would say when Community came out, it's like, how long do you go to community college for?

I feel like people ask that because the characters were always moving on from Eastland and stuff like that. Yeah, we yeah, made a reason for them all to hang out together forever and nine seasons. Right, Like in a lot of families somecoms, maybe a kid would go to college, but they would still be hanging around the house and stuff. Like a lot of families that come take place just in that house. Yeah, you know, and like it doesn't change that much.

But facts of life always kept evolving, even Edna Garrett's job kept changing throughout the show. Yes, she became a dietitian. Yeah, so that they could do the cafeteria stuff, I think, And then what else? What else did you remember? The other thing is just how I feel like it, Like it was so aptly titled.

I feel like I just learned so much about the world and things to watch out for, like what we now today call very special episodes, Like they did a lot of them. Like I don't think I knew what what a Jewish funeral was until Natalie Green's father passed away, you know, like it's possible I didn't know what abortion was until Natalie wrote a fake article about it on the show. So, and like the show seemed to be like geared to protect young women from all of the things that were out there waiting to destroy them. I think you have to remember this is the time when like Brooks Shields was like fourteen and do like modeling and say like nothing gets between me and my Calvin Klein Jen's like really kind of like, oh now we say it's like inappropriate wild I think we call it.

And so like, but so the show was kind of there like they did an episode about two d becoming a model and it being like two adults. Yes, so it like warned you about those things, like it did teen prostitution. Like I can't believe some of the episodes that they were able to do, like that suicide they did an episode and and the other thing I'll say is I think it changed what families were on the show too, because this was a place where families sent their kids. Like normally sitcoms are about a family and the parents are always great. They always give the kids good advice, and yes, they'll discipline them if they screw stuff up.

But on this show, they didn't necessarily get along with their parents. Like Edna Garrett was the one who filled the role of the parent. But like also Blair and Joe both came from families that, like the parents were divorced already, Like I'm not sure that was something you saw on TV at the time. A bunch of it was like very like pre modern family. Well, and then there's the Natalie episode where she sees her dad having an affair in a restaurant, confronts him about it, and you're like, what is this happening?

Like it's interesting how serious it was. I did not watch it as it was airing. I have always had an aversion to shows about teenagers. Sharon's always been an adult, was more. Interested into what the grown ups were doing than what the kids were doing.

So I did not watch it at the time, and so and watching it for the podcast, I've been really surprised at the Obviously I don't watch every episode, but just the amount of ways in which they really tackle serious topics and really tackle them well I thought, I mean surprisingly well, and in ways that I think would still hold up today because they're kind of evergreen stories about women, girls growing up in the things that they have to face and how to deal with them. I was just so impressed with what I've been seeing. I think there was a reason it was kind of an under the radar hit too, Like it wasn't ever like the number one show on television, but it ran for nine years because I think people really tapped into what you're talking well, and I.

Think it had a kind of a rough season one, right, So I had totally forgotten that there were all these girls. In season one, there's seven girls and two other main cast members, a teacher and a headmaster. You know, you know, there were a lot of people in that cast. It was a lot like how would you support that over time? The funny thing is, if you watch the pilot, they really hedge their bets that the show might not be successful because, like Edna Garrett said, like the Different Strokes characters are in the pilot, and mister Drummer says, but this isn't going to be permanent, right, like you're still gonna come back, and she's like, oh yeah, definitely, Like this is only like temporary temporary, not permanent temporary.

Well, and I had totally forgotten that it started on Different Strokes. It was sort of a backdoor pilot. Yeah, that was the final episode of season one. That's right, Garrett's Girls, and so she goes just to help out. I think they may have changed the titles to just the girls School, the Girls School, Okay, possibly you can on the no.

Yeah, and Kimberly allegedly goes there. Yeah. Yeah, you never see her there. This is the only time you see her at which in that episode is called east Lake. It's not called east Land.

Oh all right, So I had forgotten that it was a backdoor pilot, and I had forgotten that. Then there was this huge cast, including Molly Ringwalm which is so startling to see baby Molly Ringwalls. She is nine years old or something crazy like that. She is very young in that cast, and it's fun. It's fun to see all these girls together.

So I wanted to shout out the seven girls featured in the cast the first season. Lisa Welchel as rich Girl, Blair Warner, Philly Shachter as Nancy Olsen, Julie Pikarski as Sue Anne Weaver, Kim Field does TOUTI Ramsey, Molly Ringwold plays Molly Parker. I love that they just named her Molly. And Julianne Haddock as Cindy Webster and Mindy Cone as Natalie Green. It's hard to even just keep track of them saying them because there's seven.

That's a lot. I just I don't know what they were thinking with so many girls, so many characters in a half hour sitcom, I mean, real girls. They weren't casting eighteen year olds to play twelve. They were casting young people. The best stories how Mindy Cone got cast.

There was a documentary that we watched about it. That's great. I'll put it in the description links, but yes, keep going. If I'm getting it wrong, please correct me. Is that Charlotte Ray and the producers went to a private school on a tour to just find do research on how these girls schools work, and their tour guide was Mindy Cone.

And if that's not right, this is what I heard Inndy Cone was the tour guide and she was just so bubbly and lovely and funny that Charlotte Ray went to the producers and said, you have to write a part for this character. It might have been she's just like Charlotte Ray's best friend, whose name was Natalie. I think, oh, that's yeah, that is so funny. But yeah, I heard that same story, so we can. We're just going to put those And they made Too d wear roller skates because they thought she looked too young and also she was too short for the camera angle.

Oh I didn't know that was that was the part that I read too, that she looked too young, But also she was too short to get a good shot, so they needed her to be as tall. They didn't need her to be tall, so they just said, you have to be in roller skates the whole time. And she is and you're like, that girl's gonna fall. No one should be letting her skate in the house. I'm astonished that somebody somewhere didn't go this really could be a problem over the point and break the lag or something.

But here's what I will say, because in our Heather Thomas interview, she talked about roller skating, and so many people like that was the thing. Yeah, seventies and eighties was about roller skates. We've had who was it that said they met their husband roller skating in New York. I don't remember somebody we've interviewed. Oh my gosh, she's like, oh yeah, we met on roller skating in New York.

I'm like, that's insane. Why aren't you dead. Apparently seventies and eighties roller skating was the thing. Everybody was on roller skates, especially twoty. They had the head Master as a leading character played by John Lawler, and Geny O'Hara played a teacher, Emily Mahoney, and it became very clear that they didn't have a place for her.

So it's like, I've watched most of season one and they try to give her some things to do, but then basically that's sort of covering Missus Garrett's ground. It was a little bit like it felt like she's supposed to be the anti Missus Garrett, like the disciplinarian just made sure these girls needn't act right and stuff like that, and it just didn't land. I don't think she made it through the first season. No, she lasted about four episodes and then she's gone. The Headmaster makes it through the whole season.

The end of season one and they sort of take a hiatus. They're not doing great in the ratings, correct, and they kind of revamped the show. Yeah, and that's the show that I remember. That's the funny thing about Facts of Life is I think, like how many shows are where you remember the soft reboot and like not the original, you know, And also how many shows do that successfully where it's like, oh, this isn't working, but we can fix it. We promise we can fix it, and it usually doesn't get fixed.

But this time they like took. Off it totally fixes it. And I think it was from what I was reading about the ratings, that second season comes back great and that keeps rising and by season three they're the number one NBC sitcom and number two show on NBC. That's awesome. So it really does become a hit.

It becomes a bigger show than Different Strokes. I feel like it's the answer to so many TV trivia questions, like what show didn't work in season one but they figured it out in season two? What spinoff ended up doing better than the original? Like what show survives replacing its lead character with another actress and still goes for a couple more seasons. It's such weird show.

It just sort of does keep going. And yet the way that people remember the show, or the way that I remember the show is that second to third season. Yeah, that's the season. That's the show for me. Everything else is like, oh look, oh.

Yeah, it's that season. And also the first Edna's Edibles season, Like I remember that set, okay perfectly. Can we talk for a minute about Edna's before we do that? Though? Maybe it's just that the shows have been covering on this podcast, but I had not realized how many shows during the eighties, maybe the seventies, where they the network thinks enough enough of it to say, Okay, everything's not working, but we're going to take some time and we're going to try to figure it out and we're coming back.

We're going to bring it back. Yeah. These days it's like first episode, nobody watches it, see ya, you know. And I know it was a different time in TV or whatever, but there really seemed to be a lot more patience and an understanding of when they actually had something that maybe they just hadn't quite found it and were willing to give it another try. And I just wish there was more of that.

One of my old time favorites and an exception to my no teenager rule, my so called life. To this day, I don't understand how it didn't last more than thirteen episodes, but talk about a great show. To this day, we keep seeing this so over and over again in our shows. I mean, obviously most infamously and Cognate and Lacey because they kept trying and third time was the charm and now suddenly they've got a big award winning hit on their hands. But it was interesting they brought in Margie Peters and her writing partner A Sodkalada comes in to direct in the end of season two.

I thought it was season three, maybe in season three. The most important thing I think with season two was they introduced Joe. Yes, yeah, four of the girls go. They keep three of the OG girls, They keep Blair, two D and Natalie right, and again in retrospect, you're like, they really are these resonant characters from that first season from episode one. Blair is such a clear character, Tutti is such a clear character and has things to do, and Nadly is popping on the screen and apparently had no acting experience, was a high school tour.

My guess is she was in the drama club, right. But then they're like, we need to bring in another character. An aging of chaos. It felt like someone was like, we need a troublemaker on the show. Well, and these girls, by the nature of where we are, are all from a level of privilege.

So they decide to bring in a scholarship student. But they're all kind of archetypes, all of the characters, but they fit so well together they just make it work. I mean, it really is a that's that magic of casting and that magic of chemistry of a cast, because as soon as Nancy Minken comes on, you're like, she's fantastic, and it all clicks, like the show just like you almost hear it, like her relation with Blair is the purpose, Yes, and then it gives Tuty and Natalie get to kind of bond by being the others, right, that kind of thing, Like you're saying, there's not a lot of shows that revamp like that and then come out stronger for it, both in ratings and the success of the show. I feel like a lot of shows you when you bring on a daring new character, it's like an active desperation, like, God, I hope this works, but like in this it worked perfectly.

Yeah, and Joe is so memorable a character. Joe felt like a character that I could connect with because Joe was a tomboy and I was a tomboy. But she's also not of the world of I'm being sent to a private boarding school. It's funny because they had a tomboy in season one. Also, it just wasn't and I.

Have to give concredit to that pilot episode. Oh yeah, it's very daring. It's very daring because they take that tomboy and Blair basically accuses her of being a lesbian without saying the word. But strange is the word they use. Yes, that girl is strange.

There's something wrong and missus Garrett says you're fine, just be you and you're fine, and they subtle like, if you don't want to think that that's what it's about, then it can just be about this Tom. And then she just doesn't fit in. She just doesn't fit in. But it's also very clearly. And they did a lot of things like that that were just so jaw dropping.

And that's not just something you expect them to do in a pilot. It's something you do in the very special episode later in the season or five seasons down. But they kept doing that over and over again, and they talked, I mean, there were showrunners on that that had a commitment to tell girls stories like that, to be the young Golden girls. And when you talk about the troops, we go back to it's a living and golden girls. And we've got, you know, sort of sexy Blair, right, sexy, mean girl Blair and the tomboy tough girl.

Joe Twudi's the goofy one, the comedy in comedy, and Natalie is sort of the nervous, almost mom like one. What I was trying to remember was this the first all girl show. I mean, it's a living is close, but there's male characters that are the first season they're a male character, but the second through ninth season, all the leads are all female. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one before it. I mean, Diane Carroll had a show where she was the sole leader, right, they're sole leads.

But I'm talking about like sort of a female friendship and sex and the City Golden Girls. In fact, when I was looking at the ratings and when this was so one of the problems is I think in season one they aired on Friday nights, and then in season two they moved to I think Wednesdays, and that did a better slot for them. But then at one point they moved to Saturday. Which was a big television night best Yeah, oh. Yeah, Saturday is the big night of the wee to watch TV.

For its seventh season, this is according to Wikipedia, it moved to Saturdays at eight thirty to bolster the premiering series The Golden Girls. They use this show to help launch the Golden Girl. I forgot The Golden Girls was on Saturday night at nine b gosh. It ended up growing into a whole Miami night of comedy, right like Golden Girls, Empty Nests. Yeah, nurses, I think.

But I thought that was so interesting They used the Facts of Life to help launch Golden Girls. I love that. It's funny now because I feel like they feel like two different eras of shows. But no, they are next to the show. Well, and you're like, You're like, well, did it really come?

It came seven seasons before the Golden Girls. Like, I'm not sure that the Golden Girls didn't use it as a template for their show. Hey, how about the facts of Life? Only they're old like fifty for them. I think at some point after Facts of Life, the ABC attempted to do a spinoff of Who's the Boss, which took place at a modeling academy.

So I think that had all yes, yeh, my god. I think that's one of the one season shows. We might try to look at the nineties show. No, it was in the eighties. It was eighties, I think, so, yeah, I know what you're talking about.

It was a bunch of models. It was like Leah Remedy I think was the carricter. Like she was a friend of Sam's on Who's the Boss and then she went to be a model at this place. I believe. Well, let's talk about the spinoff.

By the way, your first season of Different Strokes, you've super successful show. Oh, let's spin off in season one, right, let's go immediately, and we're going to take the housekeeper. She popped in season one, actually she popped in. Season one, has an attitude, yeah, and she was, you know, put upon, but by the crazy antics. That's a weird thing to spin off.

I think that's how bad a state NBC was in at that point. I think they were in the third place. Yeah, we have the Different Strokes, this works. Yeah, how do we turn this into an hour program? By the way, just because it was the number one sitcom for NBC doesn't mean it was number one.

It was like number thirty two. Yeah. By the way, the ABC show is called Living Dolls. Oh okay, it was Lea Remedy in his Yes. She was Michael Learned, Lea Remedy, Holly Berry, David moscow Alis, Simlano, of course, Marion Ross.

There are guys starring in that girls show, which is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But I'm just saying the Sex and the City Golden Girls facts of life. Again, you can't even say it's a living because the piano player is such a big part of that. Yeah, yeah, all right, what were you some of your favorite episodes.

I'd say my favorite episode is I think it's called New York, New York where Blair and Joe, you know, they're fighting in the beginning. It might be a little unfair because it's really a Blair Joe episode, doesn't have the whole cast. But Blair and Joe are going back to Manhattan to their respective like show's from the Bronx. She's going to like uppercrust ariat Blair is, and they realize how much they've evolved and that they don't fit in in these old places anymore. Like Joe's friend, neighborhood friend is like a racist and like angry, she wants to deface this like Puerto Rican mural and Joe has to stop her.

She's like why, what's wrong? Like they're just expressing themselves and stuff like that, and she's like, oh, but I was here first, you know. And then Blair goes to hang out with this real blue blood, upper crust type woman and realizes that like, oh, I'm not this elitist anymore, because like there's something like where her housekeeper didn't make lunch for a lunch party she's having, so she gets all angry and Blair. Blair's been working in a kitchen this whole time, you know, working off a debt. So she's like, it's fine, we can make lunch for everybody.

And she's like, me make lunch, and so they you know, Blair and Joe were fighting like cats and dogs at the beginning of it, but when they meet back at the train station, they're both kind of in bad places. It's supposed to be a fun trip to connect with friends, but they're in this like weird. Like it's surprising how many episodes end on a down note in fact, like where they realized they're like, this wasn't a good trip. I don't fit like I'm growing, I've evolved past these people. Eastland is helping me evolve into a different kind of person.

And they realize that they're actually better together than a part. That's great. Now, when is that episode? You know, I think it's a episode. It's definitely in the Living in the Cafeteria.

There's probably three or four. It's actually written by a guy named Peter Noah who like goes on to write on the West Wing and stuff like that. You could see early on how like. Oh there's some like based some good stuff going up. You know.

One that like still amazes me is the one where two D meets Jermaine Jackson. Is it Jermaine JACKSONMA. Tried to get Michael Jackson? Oh? Really?

The Jermaine Jackson one has one of the funniest lines because he had a large audience with young black girls, right and like teenage black girls love Jermaine Jackson. And there's a point where Missus Garrett is looking for Tuty and she asks Cigar like, have you seen a young black woman? And it's like the all. I have to go watch that episode because Jermaine was my favorite. It was your favorite Jackson.

What you think of the outfit, it's out there. Weirdly. I think their outfits kind of hold up for the eighties. Yeah, they feel like it was like whoa what they occasionally Blair had the shoulder pads, Yeah, I think. But they're also in uniforms a lot.

That's true. The funny thing about that also is in season one they put some of the girls in like short shorts, you know what I mean, like short shorts, But in season two it feels like someone said that was Markie Peters. Oh okay, yea. They were like, uhh no, these are girls in New York, what. Are you doing?

And it feels crapy. But it's such an interesting the episode because it's not the usual eighties thing when a giant pop star shows up and they love him and they sing a song together. It's like, yeah, when two D meets him, like they have no chemistry, they can't connect on any level. It's clear he's this celebrity, Like she was invited as his number one fan, so she expects him to know her, like, I'm your number one fan. It's me Tooty, And he's like, oh, I have people around me that like handle all this.

I give all the credit to Jermaine Jackson for letting himself be portrayed and not the best like oh I love all my fans and stuff like that. You know. That's I think one of the reasons the show does so well and holds up so well is it turns in unexpected ways. That's right, you know, it talks about serious subjects. It will take an expectation and turn it and it's both for the girls and the audience, And I think that's kind of Lovely.

It's about fanaticism, Like she's she's not just a fan, Yeah, she's like a finac. She has a tantrum when she can't go to the concert. And I love how the girls call him out. I was like, Oh, I didn't know we could just get whatever we wanted if we threw a tantrum and missus Garrett's like, you didn't see. You.

But I also like, I. Haven't seen the episode, but I am going to watch it. But I also like the way what you're describing in terms of it sounds like they don't make Jermaine Jackson to be the bad guy. It's a realistic situation, but they're not pointing fingers at him. It's just like, Okay, this is the reality of the situation.

This is what's This is what is real without trying to make somebody be good and somebody be bad. Right, He's very nice and friendly to her. There's no connection, like it's the it's the parasocial relationship, right. I mean, and they had great guest stars on. I mean there's the Molly Ringwald and the people that are on that then go on to do amazing things.

But there's also the Jermaine Jackson and George Clooney. Should we talk. About George Clooney like it's it's sort of George is that that's not his first thing, but it's his first. Recurring He was in the opening credits. I think, yeah, yeah, And it's pretty funny because you both can see the George Clooney of it all, but you can also he also is just sort of this dude.

He doesn't feel You're like, I don't know, but he's able to explain why he's always there. He's always picking up his newspaper from Egypt. It's just like bizarre. But the Jerry Jewel run, Yes, amazing, and that was that was memorable for me. That was something I remembered from the show because she was popping as a comic young woman with trupple palsy.

And it gives you a whole other layer to Blair. It gives you a whole other layer to the school. I don't know. I thought that was really incredible. I thought the amazing thing.

There's a Jerry episode where she's asked to plan like a banquet. You expect it to be one thing, but like you said, they always attack stories from a different point of view. It's that she didn't know how to ask for help because she wanted to prove she could do it. Yeah, you know, like when you're a disabled person, you're always like trying to prove, like I don't need people's help. But there is a situation where she needed someone's help, and Edna Garrett says to her, it's like, I'm saying to you, not because you're a disabled person, because you're a person, like you needed to ask for help in planning this banquet and you didn't do it.

Like it has this two things where Blair tries to take control. She's assuming Jerry can't do it, so it has that aspect of it too, But then Jerry rest's control and it doesn't go yeah, you know, and Edna has to like there's like everyone needs to ask for help now. And again, like planning such a huge thing like that does make. You wonder what was going on in the writer's ron throughout, because they were constantly coming up with these ways to tell a story like that that is so different than what you expect, and they don't take the expected road, it seems ever, or maybe they do once, but most of the time they don't. They're going down unexpected roads in a way that is really more true to life than a lot of the things that we see.

I'm going to say some of the funny holds up really well. Yeah, the tut Natalie stuff, Oh yeah, it's really good. One of the favorite episodes that I watched was the one where they ended up going to the prison to entertain. Yeah. Yes, that was fantastic.

Oh my gosh, on so many levels, that was just fantastic. Everybody's performing and singing and it was just it was just wonderful. It was great. Even the first Jerry episode, you think the premises Blair is embarrassed to have a cousin with crebral palsy, but that's not what's going on. And you know that had to be the first pitch in the room, right, and then they went, no, that's not our show.

That's right. The pool was so much smaller in terms of the numbers of shows. I knew all about Jerry being on this show, for instance, and watch and I didn't watch the show, And today I still watched a lot of television. But there's so much I have absolutely no clue about whatsoever. And we don't have Entertainment Weekly anymore.

That's right, No, I missed that. I used to be so up to date on everything that was premiering and stuff like that, and now everything premieres all year round, like in the streaming universe. So it's just like it's funny. I remember I came back to Fire Country season two or three, must have been this season where everybody was talking about Baby Reindier and I'm. Like, what is that?

Yeah, people will be like, oh my god, this show and. You're like, I have never I don't know what you're talking about, especially if it's on Apple. Apple has so much stuff with like big stars, and so I'm like, oh right, but they don't promote it. They had the Fall TV pre preview, like the Winter Movie preview, like everything. It was good for me.

It was the TV Guide Fall preview that would come out in September. That was like my bible for television, and I'd go night by night, what can I watch? Yeah? What do I have to miss? Because they've moved all the shows around and now I can't time shift, so I've got to pick something, you know.

And I looked in the newspaper where they printed it weekly, and it's so funny and rich has all of his TV guides are up in our attic. Oh, that's awesome, right above us. I think I still have some of the fall premiere TV guides that I haven't in a box somewhere. Maybe I may have thrown them out, have some of. My Entertainment Weekly.

It's just for nostalgia's sake. All right, we're going to bring it back to you because you've been working on television now for like twenty years, which is crazy. Yeah, what are some of the biggest changes you've seen in these last twenty years? Oh, that's just a thinker. Besides everything, I mean, just how we watch television, I think is the biggest change.

Like that thing where the entire country would sit on the couch and watch a show together, I feel has like been obliterated. And it's not just that. It's like YouTube and TikTok too. Like some people when they're looking for entertainment, they don't even think about television. It's just so radically different.

Like I still think in terms of act breaks and stuff like that, Oh, what's going to make people come back from the commercial? We're gonna end? It's like, but that might not be a thing. Like even the show I work on, some people might watch it on Paramount Plus the next day, where those act breaks don't matter, you know, Like I feel like HBO made act breaks like not a thing, But I still sort of think in those terms. It's very different.

But it's funny too. It's like, does feel like like I work on CBS, they're sort of keeping some of those old they are older models going with act breaks, not in spinoffs and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's probably something for everyone out there, like if you want like more old school or something more like Apple TV, there's a lot more to choose from. But it feels like that element of like everyone asking the question who shot Jar like just doesn't really when will. The next Moonlighting episode?

That's right, you know, I know you're a mentor for the Writer's Guild. It's been a tough few years. Yeah, it's true. Do you have any advice for people trying to break in people that want to write for television? I would I would just say it's one of the greatest jobs on earth.

If you can, like work on a TV show that you enjoy and you work with people that you get along with. I really think it's one of the best jobs on earth. So I wouldn't discourage anyone from trying to come in, but I would just caution the landscape right now, Peak TV is shrinking. Everyone's been talking about that. Just the landscape right now is a little difficult, So just be ready to take on that difficulty.

I hate to say it, but like some of my mentees, a lot of the my mentees have they have to get backup jobs now, which wasn't a thing when I started. Like when I started, A in Order was at least thirteen episodes thirteen, sixteen, twenty twenty two, right, and so like if you just worked for a year for anyone doesn't know if you once you get above staff writer, you actually get an additional fee for an episode you write. So if you had salary, if you're on a thirteen episode SDE, you're probably working for twenty twenty six weeks and a script fee and that show's canceled, you're financially okay. You know to like take the next six to eight months off to write a pilot or something to help you get your next job.

Amazon's business model is eight episodes, and they might not do a second season for two years or something like that. You might have to prepare yourself to like be ready to temp or something like that, like have kind of a backup job something to subsidize the gratification. Yeah, driving ubers or something like that. Guy, I do feel like there are some writers out there that like discouragees, like, oh, it's not the way it was, it's not peaked. TV's over where you could get a twenty two episode thing and you would be good for two years or something like that.

I don't want to discourage anyone from coming into it. Like I said, it's a great job if you can get on a show that you enjoy writing and you're working with great people. But I would just be ready for it to be a challenge. Yeah to now. Some shows don't even hire those lower level writers.

They'll just hire all upper level writers. It does feel like we're in a little bit of a time where people are hiring a lot of their friends. So if you've just knew out here and you don't really know anyone, Like when I came out here for the Warners, I didn't know anybody. I was lucky people were open. It was they wanted fresh voices.

They wanted people to come in from New Jersey who had been you know, a lab tech. And if you only have eight episodes, you might only need four writers for that. So even the staffs are getting smaller. Well on that could note. But the reason to be optimistic, I'll say, is they make money when they make shows.

That's that's their business model. So there's just a part of me that's like, they're gonna it's like gonna, they're gonna realize that it's gonna get better. Like they actually saved money during the strike because they didn't pretty So there's a little bit of like, oh, when we don't make stuff, we save our money. But the real money comes in when you make something and you make a hit, and you make. A hit and you have enough of that hit, I'm telling you, Like when you look at what gets streamed the Office.

Yeah, you know, Law and Order, like Little House on the Prairie apparently. I mean, people want to love characters on television and they want to live in these worlds, and I think that there is room for both. Right, Yeah, you can have your one off, eight episode White Lotus, but you could also have fire Country, you know, and you can also have psych we need more Psykes. Yeah, speaking of Psych, the fact that that kid came to you on set, I'm watching Psych, the show that was not on probably when he was a kid. I hear that a lot.

Oh my kid is watching this show from twenty years ago, from fifteen years ago. That's got all these episodes. It's on streaming somewhere, and now they're making what eight episodes? Ten episodes if it's not a network show, And what's the longevity? I mean, look at Friends, Yeah, for goodness sake, I mean I know that's a unicorn because it's still There are a lot of Friends type shows that are out there that people are still watching.

I mean you look at the Office yea, like Grey's Anatomy, like Young Girls, like thirteen year old girls right now, because that make dreamy. That romance thing, it's it's eternal. It doesn't matter what year you see, like someone, people pining for each other and stuff like that. It just works, people pining, people making bad decisions to them. That works, Stevie drama.

Come on. The funny thing you say about Friends also is if you watch an episode of Friends, there's like multiple stories in it, right, Like the people kind of pair off into stories. Facts of Life didn't really do that. I feel like there's just one story per episode, and people would either be at the center of that story or they would be on the sidelines of that story. Like I don't think it has interesting Yeah, I don't think it has b stories.

If you watch you on it, it sounded like Chandler and Joe we are going to a hockey game, while Monica and Phoebe You're going to a massage parlor or something like that. This has been great, right, Where can people find you if they want to not like to stalk you? Like on social media? I'm on I'm on X and Instagram now we call it Twitter here, okay, Twitter, I'm on Twitter. I mean my name's unique enough.

I think you'll find it. I think it's just at onupum nigam and on Instagram it's at on upumninggum one because apparently there's another on pum inga man back to fire Country hopefully hopefully fingers crossed. That's that's what are you on hiatus? We're on hiatus now. We're shooting our season finale right now and we haven't actually been picked up for season four yet.

But you know, we expect it. That's why streaming took off with COVID. It was comfort food. We want to figure out connection, human connection. We want to figure out how to act in the world.

We want to be able to figure out how to make mistakes and get out of them, and. Also have missus Garrett there to and just some advice. Yeah, just sit me down and tell me it's gonna be okay what I should have done. And there were movies too. I don't know if you remember.

There was like they went to Australia, they went to. Paris, Facts of Life went to Paris, The Facts of Life, the Facts right down Under and then the reunion of a Reunion. TV movie in two thousand and one, which sadly Nancy McKean is not in because I think she's shooting the division. Yes, that's so, it's your fault, it's my fault, and it's okay. It's kind of funny, not to be too dark, but the different Strokes kids had a rough time after the show ended, and not a lot of not happy endings there.

But for some reason, it feels like everyone on Facts of Life sort of just like the show ended and they just kind of went on and they never really heard the like, oh, oh, Lisa Welcher in a dui or anything like that. You never really heard stories like that. Yeah. I think they seem mostly happy. Yeah, which is good.

We like that. I think they were well taken care of. You. From from the documentary, it feels like they were very aware they were casting young women and that they wanted them to be able to be young women, and that was a tough thing to do in Hollywood, especially in the eighties. Yeah, and so I think that they went out of their way to make sure they were protected, which I don't think happens on every set in the eighties.

So it is nice when you feel like, oh they're okay. Yeah, Yeah, I mean it was a good experience. It was a good experience. Yeah. I feel that from there, the way they talk about the show.

Yeah, I hope they'll come on and talk about the show. Here. We're trying. But they kind of said no to us, all righty, oh, that we reached out. It may not have been the perfect timing to reach out.

We reached out right when they were announcing they weren't going to do a reboot because things went awry. Maybe we'll get Molly Ringwald one or George Clooney. He's got nothing to do exactly. Thank you so much for joining us Todaank you for having me. I feel like I don't have a venue to go talk about the Facts of Life.

That's weird. Come on back any time, absolutely, and I really appreciate you coming on talk. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Really has been a lot of fun.

Hey, Hey. For today's audio agraphy. Find out more at Twitter dot com slash on opomnigm and on Instagram at Instagram dot com slash on opomnigm one. That's the number one. You can watch The Facts of Life for free on the Roku channel and to be links will be in our description.

You can watch Behind Closed Doors, the Facts of Life documentary at Amazon or Apple. Again, links will be in our description. If you're looking for ways to help out and hang in, I recommend Democracy Docket, the a c l U, and Abortion Funds. Hey, be sure to tune into our next two episodes where we will talk with the incredible writer producer Margie Peters, who worked on four seasons of the Facts of Life. I can't wait.

She's gonna give us all sorts of good sign I know it's gonna be great. People Saddle up and Sharon, we have had a very exciting thing happen. We are now nominated for an Ambi's Award, which is voted on by the Podcast Academy. We're just so delighted, and not for just ourselves, but for everybody else that helps us make the podcast happen, especially Melissa and Kevin. Melissa and Kevin.

Although it does say best Indie Hosts so super appreciative, all of the nominees are pretty cool exciting to be in that company. Please send us your thoughts at Eightiestvladies dot com, on our website, or email us at Eightiestvladies at gmail dot com. Hey, take care of yourself out there. We start where we are. We do what we can.

Look for joys, breadkindness, stay active, hang in there. We hope. Eighties TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch, all of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the twenty first century. Eighties. It's like ancel pretty Eighties.

Through the city, joined good things. Good world. Eighties