Episode 8: Lord of the Tides

Hello everyone, and welcome to Game of Bros. You had another Game of Thrones podcast on the Internet that you could listen to if you wanted to, and you should. I am one of your hosts, Chris Stashue, and I'm joined once again back from vacation to the Iron Aisles, your friend and mine, your Charmond Parasta. You can keep your tongue, Chris. God fuck dude.

On this episode of Game of Bros. We're digging once again into the eighth episode of this iteration of Game of Thrones, being House of the Dragons. It's all about the Targarians and what they've been up to three hundred years ago. Yeah. So the episode aired October ninth.

It is directed by Geta Vassant Patel and written by Ellen shim and the title of the episode is The Lord of the Tides. Yeshar, you were not here last week. You were off cavorting, having a good time on vacation. I was, yeah, yeah, I was taken in the French, you know. I was of seeing the Mona Lisa uh uh, you know, and just really seeing how rich people overspent years ago, much like in Game of Thrones, rich people fighting with each other.

Yeah, about succession. Did you know there's a third Napoleon? I found this out. So this episode does kind of have to do with succession because Lord Corliss is very sick and he has been wounded in a battle at the Stepstones, and you buried the lead. We get another six year time job.

Oh God in heaven man? What uh? We talked to Vada Malone and I talked about it last episode and he was like, he was like, oh, there's gonna be another time job. I was like, yes, there is, and boy and Miguel Sapochnik and the after the Thrones thing was like, well, we had to do it again, and it's like, got him. I guess it was Bryan Condole, not Miguel Sapatchick, But he was like, we have to do it again because we really needed to recast the actors.

It's like, bro, you had him cast like one episode two. I guess like what? Okay? I think the time jumps are over now, maybe to speak soon, because I thought we were past it already already already. If we get another one, literally, Visaras will be the crypt keeper if we get it there, no Visaras is dead, he might be no he's dead.

You think he's dead? Yes, Yes, funeral, funeral episode next next week. I mean he has to be dead at this point, right, Like what else can they what else can they do to the man? Jesus, He's supposed to be a physical representation of the poison that has kind of infested his family's line, the succession, the secession poison, the poison of inheritance has kind of soured and destroyed his entire reign as king, And at this point, it's just like, how is he actually still alive? Yeah, he's looked a lot longer than we would have expected.

We've seen characters die from less in Game of Thrones than this guy has, and he's literally at this point fallen apart. I mean in the in the book Fire and Blood, which you should totally check out, the there are characters that die from like their appendix is exploding, and here he is, like his eyeball is gone, he has sores. It's you know, he looks like he looks like that guy that's tied to the bed in Seven to Dive and See a Million Forever Ime what it looks like. But it's like a it's the guy that's was tied to the bed that Kevin Spacey's character was like taking care of and like hanging like like air fresheners. The guy who's strapped to the bed that's like looks like a corpse, that's like a lot that's like alive, and like John c mcginley's like, God, he's like, you deserve what you get, motherfucker.

And then the guy goes, I'm like, wakes up. That's what he looks like. It's look, kudos to the CG team because a lot of it is CG, but a lot of it also has to go to the practical effects team because they made Patty Constantine look fucking disgusting. So does this put to bed a US sore on rumors? Right?

It's leaked over into this show. God, there's none of that with this show. Huh. Like, we haven't talked about it a lot on our podcast of power because I don't feel like it's worth really conjecturing. But dude, the amount of like who is Sarad on that show is just annoying, Like yeah, yeah.

The fact that the speculation is like taken over even like just discourse about the show seems to be kind of missing the point. You know what the differences we have the who is the triarchy? Once again? We hear so much about them, Who the fuck are the triarchy? Well, it's it's the folks that are over at the Stepstones.

Who Lord Coreless I guess went to fight again. Do you want to do a quick recap of the episode. Yeah, So Cordless Valerian is injured. There's this huge issue of who is taking his place at if he dies, if he if he dies at the drift mark, and so you have his brother Valerian making his case, then you have Rainiera making her case, and then you have Damon killing m in Valeria because he's called his wife a whore and their son's bastards, which I feel like he should have expected something like that was gonna happen. I mean that you expected something like that happened, right, has to be the stupidest character we've seen, like sort of Ned Stark season one.

Yes, no, Like he's an idiot, Like why are you so dumb? Yeah? What do you think is gonna happen? Like I I yeah, what did you think was gonna happen? If you call the princess of the king a whore?

In front of everybody, and her husband is Damon Targarian like what it what? And you call the kids bastards after it was a whole like thing, and and like it's like no one wants to really you to take this, Like Raynis doesn't really want you to do it. Chorless is already said what his wishes are. Yeah, that scene was filed because I was like, this guy, like he's acting like a real clown. Yeah, but once again, bam, and we spent like all of three scenes with him.

He seems kind of like a jackass. Yeah. Yeah, we spent like no time with him whatsoever throughout the entirety of the show, right, Yeah, so far, what we've had the scene with him and Lanor and Chorless in the Stepstones where they're kind of starting to kind of strategize the fight, and then yeah, he's just been kind of like a background character. Yeah. I think he was at the funeral for Yeah, but like yeah, I don't know, I don't know.

I look again, like with a lot of things, the Fire and Blood book throws a lot of characters at you similarly to the way this show does, and a lot of them are not important, and I don't even remember him from the book, Like I don't remember what happens to him in the book. All I can tell you is this is probably another opportunity for the show to kind of stray away from the source material and not and and kind of take take us stand. I mean in the book, so in the book Rainia, Rainiera has him killed, has oh yeah killed? It's by Damon. I was.

I actually read this thing and it online and they were discussing some of the difference between the book and the and the show. And it's like the arm making an effort to I mean, Rainier is not the best person, but sort of in the conflict between her and Alison to delineate like who he probably should be rooting for. And I think they're making Grainier a bit more, a bit less malicious and conniving that she is in the book where she seems like she was just as ruthless as Allison, whereas in this one, like things like like you know, Leanor actually gets to live, and like the same with Fateman. Is not her, it's Damon, but in the book it is. In the book, it's still Damon, but he is operating on the under her command.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know how I feel. Again, as someone who's now read the book, I feel like I feel like the whole idea of making Rania a more likable character than she needs to be, I appreciate it from a like need. Yeah, but Tony Soprano was not a nice guy, Like, I don't understand who cares in twenty twenty two, Walter White, yo, was not a good guy. Yo. He was a bad guy.

Yo. You know what I mean? Like, that's why do we care if we have to, if we have to be able to root for the characters on this show, why can't we just revel in how terrible they're treating one another. It's like always sunny. It's like always sunny.

It's no different in a lot of ways. I agree with you, I would say, in the difference between those things is like like Walter White was compared to someone like Gus or the cartel and who were like far worse. So it's not like still terrible, though still terrible, still a drug dealer, still killed people. It's not like Rania is a good person, but it's like relative to Allison. That's my point, Like, I just don't care if she's relatively not a good person or a bad person.

She's a targarian. She married her brother. She's fucking insane. Uncle, She's fucking insane. She is.

They all are, though, like Vassarus is his own special breed of insane. He's sitting there while his entire family is falling apart, going I love everybody, and I hate to see us all fighting. Let's all be friends. It's like, dude, are you out of your mind? Yes?

Yes you are, Yes, you are actually and you must be. I think the scenes where we had well, I guess, well, do we want to finish recapping because we just do like happy episode And so the rest of the episode is just another dinner scene that's immensely uncomfortable with vanaras God might as well be. Visara's at the head of the table and everybody shooting barbs at one another, getting angry, and again, I feel like setting up like this is the Cold War here, This is a Cold war going on at this table, and we're about to see the true actual lives in the balanced civil war that is that is coming. The Dance of the Dragons is coming. I mean, that's what this whole show is building too.

Is damon Targarian flying around on a dragon fighting people, Aman flying. I mean, that's what we're here for. That's what the whole rest of the show is. That's what you're here for, is the the conflict between the houses of the Targarian family. And you see the like where you can see kind of where the pairings are gonna be for the conflict in this episode, specifically in this dinner scene.

Yeah, and there's a couple other like small nuggets. There's Damon's ex lover, she kind of pops up out of nowhere. Yeah, she's the master of the Winner essentially. Yeah. And then there's also which they did say.

They did say that that was her job. I mean they said that that was who she was even when he was with her to begin with. They just didn't show anything because again, it didn't seem to matter, and it's been like ten plus years since we've seen her in the context of the show. And then there's the scene, the sort of like me too scene where Allison basically like you find out like Agon's just gone, Like he goes from kind of just like disinterested bratt to pure just unbridled asshole him and his brother, Like I don't really get it, because Allison seems like she'd be a good mom, but maybe she's not the greatest mom. I don't know what's going on her.

Terror Aman's a terror. And also somehow, even though he's younger than Agon, he looks like thirty five. Um, can we talk about that please, Like it's not to be six years in the future. He's in his thirties now. The dude is like, the dude is like the guy that comes from overseas transfers into the high school basketball team and he's like twenty five and everyone else is like sixteen.

And I'm like this dude, Yeah, Agon's an ashole. I guess Helena's just in the bugs and stuff. And she's fine. She's weird. She's a She's Agon's sister wife, is what she is.

Her character is just her personality is just weird, like right, sweet and weird. We know nothing about her other than she's very Luna love good right like yeah, and and it's and and her character is as such in the book, like she's she's kind of not given as much attention in the book because again it's more just like, ah, she's just kind of weird and aloof but and then tar Gary and baby. I mean, but aigon rapes a girl and it gets like and he's just like, oh, I do everything you want me to do, Mom, And it's like, I mean, yes, you married your sister. That sucks. But in the conset of the show, I don't think he I don't think asking him not to like sexually assault chambermaids is asking too much.

It isn't son. His mom basically calls him out on it too. M One thing I actually found interesting is we've never seen the Saras directly interact with his sons outside of the context of a larger family, Like we have no idea what that relationship is, Like I guess that would maybe help me understand how his kids end up as fucked up as they are. Like it's not like Rainiera is the most stable person and Damon's chilled out, but like her kids are actually like relatively like for this time period, like cool, fine, Like if you if your kids turned out like Jason Luke so far, he'd be generally content with that, whereas like amend and Agon are just like because they're Targarians. I mean, I think my I think my issue with this show and the narrative.

Overall kids are targarians too. They're not hilarious, but they're not just blooded. They're not full blooded targariot. Well I guess neither his Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean again, I think the lot of I think a lot of my issues with this first season of the show are going to come back to something that you just mentioned, which is I wish there was more of X and now we're not going to get it.

You know why because Patty Considine's character is dead, so now there's no more opportunities for that, and they gave us a six year time jump they couldn't have likely. Really, it's it's yeah, I'm I am a little chuffed at the show for not giving us enough time to let the fucking narrative breathe. Man. It like, at some point it felt like the show just is instead of showing us there every day lives, it's showing us the greatest hits, the most important thing. Yeah, it's like, oh, we had to see Aimond getting his eye taken out because he had to lose the eye to get the dragon, and oh we had to see the the funeral of Lana at Drift Mark with all of them there, because that's one of the you know, well, that's when Aigan and Aimond, you know, kind of start asserting themselves as real assholes, and then Aimond loses his eye.

Like I's at some point the show has to slow down here and give us a time to fucking understand what are these characters motivations? Because yeah, Aimond looks like an adult. He looks as old as Matt Smith. Like him, he looked the same. He's supposed to be like a parallel to Damon, right, like he's like this is I am the new Damon?

But like he looks because because you do see him like fighting Kristen, and like he's essentially Christen's equal, and we know Christen the Damon and Damon's a great war year and he kind of like bucks up to him in the we'll get to the dinner scene. But like, yeah, it was a little jarring, especially as he is the younger brother, um and like he's not much. He's actually supposed to be probably kind of similar in age too. Is Ja the older one? Yes?

And honestly, their names confused the fuck out of me. Their names are going to matter until the seconds, Yes, but my point is like there's not a big gap between Rainier's oldest child and Aimond, but like three times his side, he looks like an adult. He's a fully formed man. Like it's and this is six years was he was he fifteen in the last episode, Like I don't understand because he's trend. Yeah, it's this time jump I think is the most egregious one, right, like this is it's just because the casting is a bit confusing, Like yeah, I mean, the actors doing a good job, but it just it just was charging.

And also, I mean the whole it feels like now that the whole time jump casting is to serve two things. To get these young kids grown up and to get their young kids grown up, because now we've seen two people grow up, we've seen two generations grow up. It feels like to get those people grown up, and then to show Vissara's falling apart, because it's like, oh, what's the what are we going to see now with Vasarias when we come back to him, Like what's he gonna look like now? And now he's literally a ghoul, a literal ghoul, a literal zombie person, like he's alive in a world where like I said before, he is alive in a universe where like things like this do happen, but people like again, people survive a lot, survive die from a lot less than what this guy is being put through.

And like I don't remember, I mean I do. Let me take this back. In the book, not a lot of this stuff is given direct like explanation. Does that make sense? And so like in the book, I don't think they were like and he's completely like a disgusting ghoul of a human, but like he does get I mean, he does get sick at the end because of the iron Throne.

But he's not like a zombie. He's a literal zombie, like I mean, is short of you know, eating brains. He hasn't He has an eye socket that's gone, well not gone, but he has an eyeball that's gone. And it's just like this red pulsating I socket, Like, what the fuck are we doing here? Yeah, so there's a little much I'm just saying.

Yeah, I mean, not like in a bad way, but like it's just in an unbelievable way. It's like I have a hard time believing he could still be alive. Well, I mean, he's been basically just under opium milk of the populo time, Allison's kind of redecorated Steve gone full Lord of the Seven, that kind of imagery. She's like religious now, I guess not too religious where she won't marry off her children to one another, but you know, religious enough as you do as you do. So then I think that what you're talking about with Vissaris, I think kind of leads to the most powerful scene.

And even though it was probably the Sarius at its weakest, he also felt like the most powerful was when he kind of comes in like that we've seen him when he has kind of been away from the throne, and we actually learned like mentally he's still there's just his body has just totally given up on him. And he comes because Rainier basically says, hey, come to defend my son in this thing for drift Mark, because you know, I mentioned the succession question again and part of it is a little irritate because I was like, Okay, now that we've kind of got the nearest succession thing agreed on, now we're like looking another thing. Like it was good tension, but that was its kind of lazy going back to the well already even if as Sarahs comes to these and he like he has that very slow walk.

It was kind of sweet that Damon helps him at the end because that was the we've talked about us before, Like Damon really does love his brother in a fucked up way like he would like we've said he would do anything short of like actually killing his brother, but like he does have this respect for him, and at that moment he's kind of like, okay, like I'm here for you. And Damon has chilled out in the time jumps, like he's not the best guy, but he's definitely less he's chilled out. But yeah, but he also does decapitate a guy like yeah, in front of him body. But I don't think he would have waited that long in episode one, is what I'm gonna say, Like, no, yeah, I think he probably would have killed Ymon before he even said that his wife whole Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm not saying he let him say it, like he let him, he let him go there, like, yeah, say what you will about Damon, but Damon let that guy bury himself like he was you know, I'm not saying that killing the guy was the approach response. But in this universe, I think it is like it wasn't yet in this universe that is the appropriate response. As terrible as that sounds, like you said something untoward about the king's daughter who is royalty and the heirs and the heirs to the throne, Like I don't know what you're expecting to happen. So then when the Sarahs goes, He's even says He's like, isn't this like why are we discussing this settled succession? Like Chorreless this is It's not like it's not Cooreless if it was one thing, it's Coreless is saying hey, I want to redo it.

It's like right, Coils already said, who's taking drift Mark? Like, yeah, why are we debated? It's and Brady's doesn't really want Bayman to Abbott and so it is. It's like the king basically is like this is un necessary tension. And um, you know, you have you have Allison and her father kind of running the kingdom while the king is relatively incapacitated, and they're considering it, you know, at least considering Dayman's plea.

Um, something I've been thinking about is you know, everyone's like, oh, and I think we've it's all been, you know, confirmed with Rainiera that the kids are strong. But in the show, in the show, in the book, they're his. In the book, they're his kids. Like it's less it's I mean again, it's obvious here, right, like yeah, yeah, And she kind of said it to lean Or like we tried but it didn't work, and so like that's fine, but I'm in the context of the show, they're like, well, you know, it doesn't look anything like lean Or. But then I'm thinking, actually, those kids would be three fourth white, like only because lane Or is half white half white.

Yeah, So I'm like, it's the hair. It's the hair. I know it's the hair, but I'm like, it's actually if you're just going from from the oh your kids are white, when when I think and obviously it sound like the genetics degrees and stuff back then, but I'm like, it's actually not that unreasonable for her to have white children with leyne Or, which is just me being nerdy or whatever, but but but but children without Targarian hair is the problem. But it does happen, as we've seen with John Snow and stuff like that. So it's not and yeah, so right, what the fuck?

What the fuck? So what actually actually actually what the actual fuck? It's not a problem. I mean, they we know they're his kids, that we know that heartwin strongest kids, but like there there is realistically, no, there is a reality which Leonard's kids could possibly look like that unlikely all of them. Yeah, which I just so, I just have found that a little amusing, as I d ancestry dot Com hasn't made it to wester Rouse yet.

Yeah yeah, so um but so yeah, you have the really powerful scene where the Kings like basically setting up for Rainiera and he's like they're settled, and I think we get to the most interesting scene, which was the dinner. It goes on for a while, it's very uncomfortable, and it's like it's like the scene in the drift Mark episode, the funeral scene, where it's like there's a lot of stuff going on, but the fact that it like that's I think Ryan Condall and Miguel Supachnik and everybody working on this show like they know how to write these scenes. I don't maybe they don't know how to get all the stuff in between to work really well, but they know how to write these scenes, and my hope is that in the next season of the show, they find some further talent, like screenwriting talent, to kind of help fill in the gaps, because right now it feels like you're building a brick wall, but there's clearly spaces in between the bricks, and you need somebody to come in and kind of shore that up, because those scenes are really good, like the scene at Drift to Mark last episode, like the funeral scene here and then or the funeral scene in that episode, and then the succession question and then the dinner scene here.

Like they know how to write these scenes. It's just like everything else in between is not. I know this sounds weird, but like this show is really operating at full strength when all of the cast is on screen together. Is that weird when there's like thirty people in this show. It's because the show is predicated in all of these like inter relationships sprapping fractured, and we haven't like some people like Allison and Rainia and the King, like we don't necessarily need to have in the same room, but like with the kids and stuff, like we haven't seen a lot of that with Damon's kids with Lena, Like I mean, they're basically window dressing, right, so yeah, pretty much for right now at least, so it's it gets them all one place, and that seen I found like beautiful and tragic, like the King brought his family together when it's finely like listen, like I need you guys to work for the realm, Like this is what I need.

And there is a brief moment where you see that hope and you actually do see Rainira and Allison finally like in their own way reconcile and like I was like, oh shit, Like I actually had like almost like a little tear. I was like, this is like like so nice and um Luke and I think it was Luke Um like gave the toast and like I guess we were saying my nearest kids were a bit more well behaved. And even though Agon's kind of egging him on and say like I'm gonna hunt, Egon's like just kids like no fucks, and well he's an asshole. I mean that's the part. I mean again, like I have a hard time when people are writing these scenes and shows where a characters like saying something under his breath loud enough for everybody to hear it.

I wouldn't have heard that yet, Like, yeah, they're sitting two feet across the table from You're like, hey, I gotta fuck hut and you're not gonna be able to do it because yeah, limp dick, Like would someone shut this kid up please? Like smack him sucking upside the head. Like So this this is a scene where I think it'd be interesting to kind of have seen that time because we do know the kids grow up together and we're relatively friendly, but we don't haven't seen the last six years. It feels like this is this first time they're seeing one another in six years. Well, no, I'm not saying that's not right.

What I'm saying is in the inn, Row has Alison kind of like poisoning them against the others have Is it just they're just assholes? Like we don't see any of that. So that that that that made it a bit difficult for me to understand, you know, where agon is coming from. And then like the parents finally reconciled, So I was like, are the kids like this because the parents are just feeding them poison? Or are they like this just because it's them or you know, we just don't see.

And then as soon as the king because he gets sick, gets taken out and the pig comes in, like all the good willis have built, the kids, well specifically Allison and the Saraces kids aim on a agon just like fuck it all up. And then Aimon gets up and just shifts on the kids again, his nephews, and it's like basically like you're strong in any like again like again we're doing this again, like yeah, and and they're just like at some point they would have like, okay, question here, realistically, at some point would they not give it up? Like well, it's there's no point because like at this point everyone's agreed, it doesn't matter, like we're moving this. The king has said this, Alison's reluctantly accepted it, and at this actually at this point, Alison has wholeheartedly accepted because she's like, you know, I wish you could stay, Rainierra, like, you know, let's kind of hang out.

Um and her had stayed due yeah, and Rainierer and and then her kids are kind of like nope, fuck at all. And the weird thing is like I don't think Aiman's not even in line to be king so I don't really know. He's just he's just a raging asshole. Yeah, they're just they're just missing thropes. And Aimen might be like a sociopath, like a legit sociopath m amend or aigan No, aigan is is just like a narcissistic dickhead.

I think Amen's like legitimate, like a sociopath. Like he's just so triggered from the pig I'll smirk from a kid just like throws him over the edge. He lost his eye to one of those kids. So he said it was worth He said it was a worthy price to pay. Well it was he has a dragon.

Yeah, so I'm saying like he said he would pay them, and even old Ali is like, you know, we'd pay that price a thousand times over. Yeah. Nice to see Reciphons again. Yeah yeah, not doing much, not doing much, hanging out and checks, just getting some checks, being a turn in the background. And then I guess the question comes back to, like, is who's running the show?

Is Allison running the show? Is her father running the show through her? Because if Asarius isn't running the show anymore, I think it's a partnership between her and her father. It seems like they're kind of on the same level now and he trusts her, especially after that speech he gave her or she gave him last week, and like all the Lord of the Seven stuff like that doesn't really seem to be Auto's thing. That's I think Allison finding herself, her voice, finding the Lord.

But it's a it's a bit tragic that you had that one moment of peace and then it's just all shattered, and then you have the whole thing at the end of the episode where the King is like mumbling the Agon think to her and I'm like, wait, are they put I'm not sure if it's gonna go this way? But is she potentially interpret that as like, oh, now he's saying I want Agon to be the air even though he just said I want Rainier to be the air. Yes, and basically one mumbling thing. I like everything that that frustrates is is it supposed to be him talking to Rainia because he didn't ye her right, he didn't tell her no, no, no, no, no. He'd only told Rainierra.

He'd only told it Okay, I'm just speaking right, which is why they show it in the previously on House of the Dragon, which which like, Okay, we talked about this on the last episode. I'm gonna bring it up again here. Stop doing that. Don't give away stuff like that in the trailer, the previous lead like the lead up, like the like previously on where they're like reminding of something that happened two episodes ago, like fuck off show, Like assume that your audience that is watching the show every week is a little bit smarter than that, because when you remember in Game of Thrones where it was like on this episode of Game of Thrones and it showed like a flashback to John Snow and Sean Bean talking from the first season in like the sixth season of the show, like yeah, oh, you mean they're finally going to answer that one thing in this episode.

Thanks for giving it away, like and then and it's I don't know, it's very telegraphed storytelling, especially if you're watching this live, which a lot of people were. I'm less bothered by that. I understand what you're saying, but like, especially when you have shows plotted as densely as this, like sometimes it's helpful. I mean, they're they're never gonna get the someone's always gonna be Oh you told too much, or you told too little, or put some faith in your audience. That's all I'm asking for.

That's all I'm asking for, And it doesn't feel like that much. I get that they get they don't think that their audience. I get that they must not have a lot of faith in their audience, given that they've done seven time jumps in this show, and every time they do a time jump, they have to really pound into our heads. Who these We've been introduced to these characters three times each, is what it feels like now, and it's I'm like, I just stop spending time doing character introductions and stuff and give us some worthwhile character interactions. Because Sarah's is dead and we never got to see Agin and Aimond have any interaction with him.

Like that's criminal in a way. Yeah, the same with Ranius's kids, like Rainia and Damon's kids, I don't know shit about them. I have not seen them interact with either one of them. Like you said, they are essentially just paper thin plot stand ins to you know, exist to push the plot forward or to be dragon fodder in the next couple of seasons. You know.

Also, I mean think I'm many characters in the show, We're going to be dragon fodder. Like it's like, are they rickens? I don't know, we'll find out, right. I don't like that. I don't like that about this show because there are like thirty characters in this show and only five of them have been given screen time in a meaningful way.

But the other twenty five we're expected to care about because you showed them a couple of times. Like that's that is what made the original show bad towards the end of it. It's just like, we don't care about we don't care about giving you a reason to be invested in the characters. You should just care because it's Game of Thrones and I don't want to see this show do that. And I don't think it is, but I think the time jumps have kind of made it seem that way, at least to me.

The time jumps, I'm sick of them, Like now I'm now now I'm really frustrated because the time jump between the last episode in this episode took character that like Amen, that child actor playing Amen. I would have given another two or three episodes to him just to see him become He pulled a Denarus, he got a dragon. Then all of a sudden, he's just that an unrepentant cocksucker, Like what did Yeah? He gets made fun of once from having a dragon, Like, I mean, it wasn't nice, but he Basically we're supposed to understand this was all happening off screen, don't you know anything? This is a TV show.

You have ten hours here? Like, why are you treating this like it's a Why are you treating this like it's a sprint when it should be a marathon. This show has at least one or two more seasons, right, the show can't end next season? No, No, probably at least one more season after that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would see, but like, why are you sprinting here?

I just don't understand why they're like, oh my god, we gotta show everything. We gotta get Amen to age twenty five. We're to the hell age he's supposed to be where we're gonna keep it, I know, dude eight, Like, yeah, no, the casting in this show What the Kids is wild man? That is an adult that is a fully grown ass man playing Amon, But it looks like it looks more like Matt Smith than Matt Smith does. Now does that make sense?

You know, It's like, how do you look more like Matt Smith than Matt Smith? Does I don't understand. The funny thing is also Rania is named one of her new children with Damon also Agon. So my also thinking was like when the king is singing about Agon in the end, I was like, well, could it not be the other Agon? Like it is?

I well, I know, I know, but Allison doesn't know that. So I, like I said, we don't know yet, but I am going to be a bit frustrated if, like all the growth that we saw with Allison and Rainiro just goes to the wayside because of like a kings you should read the book Accidental if it's should about all about all about it, Well, no, in the book there is no Song of Ice and Fire though right, there is no no but but but no no again. The book, as I explained about them alone last week, the book is kind of the book is thousand level view of and the show is like ten foot view because we're seeing all the things that are just we are seeing things that are just described in the book, like and then this happened, and then Vassara's died, and then this happened, and then this happened, it's like those we don't get to see, like Allison said to Otto, like we don't see any of that.

So like again, and what's interesting, Like I mentioned in the last episode, there is some wiggle room for kind of creative interpretation of what happened, given that there are three sources that George R. Martin is referencing in the history book. So like with lean or surviving, right, Like that wasn't in the book, but it was kind of in the book. Like there was a thing where it's like why they never understood why Sir Carl killed Lenore And now it's like they filled that in so it makes sense that he didn't actually right, Like okay, fine, right, but some of this other stuff, it's like Aimond and Agan in the book, the sons are kind of even then in the book, they're not really given a whole lot to do, Like I guess they're given more to do than they are here Amon and Amon like that.

That whole kind of back and forth with the two of them and who's going to be king and which one of them is king and their their relationship I think is probably what's going to be the next kind of big relationship that the show minds is Agon and Aimon together as brothers, but it cast a thirty old man to play a teenager, Like what is this high school prisical? He just looks so weird compared to everybody else. I think it would be better if Aigon was also like a bigger It's because Agon is the older brother and the fact that his younger brother looks so much older than him now is jarring. Yeah, oh yeah, for sure, for sure. But to your point, it's gonna be interesting to see.

Yeah, like where the King's musings at the end of the episode, he with those his final words, it's kind of implied it was, I guess, not confirmed. We'll find out the next episode and then if that's enough to kind of then break this new found relationship that Ranierro and Alison have. Plus like Alison's kids just being shit, heeads generally like just miserable, just like the worst, the worst, they are the worst. Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed the episode in like a kind of mustache twirling way almost like you know what I mean. Like the characters in this show, at least the best characters in this show are written with a fair amount of like nuts empathy, but like they're written in a way where you can kind of love to hate them but you still love them.

Like this, they're setting this guy up to be like Joffrey from the Game of Thrones, right, unrepentant piece of shit, which like, again I don't know like in the book, he's not in the book, it's more agon. That's I mean, they're both terrible. I think that that's. I mean, you'll you'll, we'll be seeing that very quickly. But Amond is okay, Like I guess, sure, why not?

They're being painted very one dimensionally and it's kind of a problem. And I can't tell if it's just the show hasn't done enough yet to give us understanding of who their characters are, or if the show is like, well, these are their characters now and they're just mustache twirling villains, like please don't be the second, please be them. We're definitely rooting for the strong boys, right, like it's it's yeah, And that's the thing. It's like in the book, it's not made clear who you should root for. It's kind of like, you know again, it's kind of where you come down on this question of succession and this it's like no, they're batties, like yeah, like like not even any question.

Like they're literally sitting there going, hey bastard kids, like hey bastards like and Agon's even said like, I don't really want to rule, and Amon doesn't really seem like Amy just seems like he just wants to like kill things that's really killed, like that's his interest, just like Damon. Yeah, but Dame Damon mellowed out, and Damon didn't ever really want to be keen either. He just wanted to be close to it, right and be involved, but he wasn't like I want to rule. I mean, that's kind of what the whole point with him and his well now dead wife was. He's like, I'm happy to just kind of chill here, be wealthy and not have responsibility.

And that was the initial conflict between Damon and Visaris. But like after that first episode, like Damon was like all right, like fine. I think it was more of just like losing his station rather than like his opportunity to be king. Right, because at this point, it's been how many how many how many time jumps has it been since the beginning of the show. Okay, so you had like a nine year from the prologue and which is the which is the council that they decided that who the king was.

Yeah, and then you had about like I don't know, swar between like four to five years up to the like maintime jump, because you had that like three years in the step stones then like you know, six months here, six months there. So let's let's just say five years. So that's fourteen years plus the ten year time jump. So let's say let's say twenty five years total, and then another six years, so it's like thirty one years since the prologue where Vissaras was named. So basically a Sarias was king for like three decades and also they mentioned, you know, his reign and Jeharis had no real war, So it seems like for the average person actually hasn't been that bad in existence.

It's really just been a lot of annoyance within the court itself, which like the people every day people wouldn't see. So Va Sara's one. Va Sarah's one reigned from one oh three AC to one twenty nine AC and the Acs. The Acs started with Agon the Conqueror, who came from Valeria to wester Ros So when the AC is after the conjom, after the conquering. No, it's after the conquering because it's when Agon came to wester Rose.

Is right, right, But but the AC doesn't start until Agon has taken over wester Ros, so it's after, but it's kind of like after the conquering of Agon is when the timeline starts. So Vasari's has been alive from seventy seven to one twenty nine. He became king in one oh three, he dies in one. Let's assume that he's I mean again, let's assume he dies and this episode of the show is taking place in one twenty nine a c. So he's been king for twenty Yeah, yeah, almost thirty Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

You were right on the money. But we've seen how much of that time realistically have we seen? We've seen a couple of years here and there, but nothing, I guess the most have we have? We had two episodes yet that have been back to back chronological. I guess the six and the seventh episodes where they time jump super far and then Lane, a Valerian dies from the Dragon.

Those two episodes six and seven are back to back chronological. I think that because it's the funeral takes place quite soon after she dies, So I assume that episode nine will be taking place essentially right after what we saw at the end of this episode. Well, the good news is they can't aige up Aman's actor anymore. So I think he's said, yeah, well that and that's the thing, Like they can't age up Amen, they can't age up Aigan, Like they can't age up anybody at this point, like maybe maybe the Nasoys. I don't.

I don't know, I really they don't. There's no way for them to time jump anymore because if they time jump, actually, let me put it this way, if they were to time jump anymore, they would miss all this conflict. Then they would move on to something else. If they jumped two years into the future, you would have a different king, a different group of a different king on the throne even then ones you've seen now, do you know what I mean? Like if it's weird, like we jumped all the way to this point and now if they jump any for now, they're stuck.

They have to tell the story chronologically. Yeah, So it seems like we both liked the episode. We don't look we just the function of the time jumps or or My issue with this show is just the same it's been this whole time. It doesn't understand how to operate as a show mechanically. This is not The Crown, and if it were, and if it were The Crown, it would be the whole season would have been Young Rainiera.

You have three groups here of people that you have been time jumping forward Rainiera herself got time jumped, and then her kids got time jump Like this is just absurd. I think that this show has only up to go from here. I think you're right. I enjoyed this episode, but you know what, I would like to stay with some of these characters for more than an episode, like genuinely at this point, Like I'm not begging the show runners, but I'm at the point where I'm like, you guys got to slow down this fucking show's pace. And I know that now they essentially have to because they've been trying to get to the whole.

It would be like not going into how World War One happened, just going and here's this, this and this, and now we're at World War one, Like they're not going into all of the machinations here. Yeah, I mean the death of Assaras will definitely be like the powder Keg. So oh it is and is and as we said, if it didn't happen at the end of this episode, it's about to happen, so right, And like you mentioned, the Song of Fire and Ice is not mentioned in the book and the Dagger is not mentioned in Fire and Blood, So that to me seems more like a connection to the original show then to the books. Does that make sense. It feels like them, but I think show thing not a book thing.

Yeah, but I think it helps us understand. I think why Rania is fighting so hard for the successions remain in place, because it could be her excuse, it could be your excuse, but whatever, she at least ostensibly thinks this is my or my family's duty to protect the throne. Yeah, although there's also that's like, why did the king just not sit down Alison and Rainiera and be like, hey, I had this vision, Alison. I know it may not be pleasant for you, but I think this is the best thing to do for the realm, because you know, when characters are in TV shows, they're not supposed to act like humans. They're supposed to act like dumb robots.

I don't know. It's there is some stuff in this narrative that has been strange and not the most successful to me, this idea that like all these people are fighting with one another and they could not get on the same page. I get it. But at the same time, in real life, we've seen people much more fractured get on the same page with one another. Yeah, I mean it's a lot of manufactured conflict, Yes it is.

And the time jumps feel like a way of not misdirection, but I don't know what else you would call it. Like, look over here, we're doing some time jumps. Isn't it weird that they're getting old while it's like there's very little actual storytelling going on here, at least in the aspect of character growth, character building and character I don't know, Like it feels like they're just introducing characters and then aging them up, and it's like I didn't know who they were before you age them up, and now I really don't know who they are. It's there are means to an end, right, Like we had to get we had to get to the point where very Sarah's dies, Like that's made very clear to us now with this show, right, Like, this first season is driving to that moment where I didn't think we're going to be eight episodes in before it happened.

Man, Holy cow, Yeah, I think it's going to be. I think you're you have two things you have to execute on if you're really just going to focus on the spectacle. The battles and shit have to be amazing. And we need dragons, right and we saw that and I get that. I'll tell you that much.

Damon found a few more eggs. And the other thing is if you want to make us really care about these characters, like, we're gonna have to spend so especially with the the kids, We're going to spend more time with them because I really don't I just know that Aim and an egg On suck. I know Rainiera's kids seem okay, but I just don't know much about about them, right. And you know, ultimately, with this narrative being kind of as far reaching as it is, you can't rush. And I don't know why they're rushing because you have how many seasons of this show to tell?

Like, how how many You're like, how many seasons of this show? Do they not think that they're gonna get because it's it's so there's a lot of rushing going on here, like it's just it's weird. It's weird to me that this season didn't nothing that they've told us in this season warranted slowing down for you know what I mean, it's slowing down is now like finally with him dying, with the Sarah's dying, like nothing else happened up until this point that anyone could have been like this, we need to slow down. I mean yeah, I mean basically from taman and when you're getting married, which is probably huge, the implications like we don't see the King's reaction, we don't see Alison's reaction, and just like I guess they're all cool with it.

I guess like that would that feels like it would be a thing that people would be rather not cool with, because they do go into the book. In the book, they go into like the way the world reacts to some of the Targarians getting married. There's like a whole thing about the religious aspect of it in King's Landing not liking you know, not in this not not not Rainer and Damon, but in another there's another Targaryan in his I think it was actually j Harris, the father of vissariis or not the father of Assarius, but I guess the uncle of Vissaris. Yeah, he married his sister, and like the entire realm was like, not the entire realm, but like a portion of the realm was not happy with that. Even though he was seen as like a very good king in the long run, even the Alm had problems with him marrying him.

His sister Alison does it with she she kind of talks about the Targarran's queer customs, but she married her kids off. Yeah, because they're so paranoid because they don't want to marry anybody else. Like, I don't, I don't know, I don't. I mean I get it, but I don't. Yeah, I mean we can't evaluate it by like our moral or what it's like.

It's a completely different thing. But I think even within the context of that world, it's a bit unusual. But I guess not out of the realm of possibility based on how Targearrants have been historically. But yeah, I think the next few episodes are probably gonna ramp up and we'll I just it's I'm still not sure, is it just the kids really pushing or Alison gonna kind of react to the last thing she heard from the Sarah's despite him like just a couple hours before saying, hey, let's chill out and we have a plan, let's follow the plan. Well, and that's why, And and for me, I think that's where you know, I am as well.

It's like I want to know why why these things are happening, And I want to know for what reason is the show going to give us for why this is all happening, Because what's about to happen is is what we talk about the White Walkers right from the first season of the first iteration of the show, and how terrible they are, Yeah, you mean, yeah, the White Walkers, Like how terrible they are for the realm, Like you're about to have characters fighting on dragons and burning things and killing people who are caught in the middle of it. Like that's war. This is yeah, this is about to be war on a war on a scale that I don't think we've ever seen in this show. And I'm really excited for it. But I feel like this first season was a was like a sacrificial offering to get to that point.

Maybe the second season of the show is going to be like the greatest episodes of Game of Thrones we've ever seen, the highest production value, the most interesting characters. Maybe, but it feels kind of like a shame that this first season is so all over the place, because, like you said, I liked this episode, I just don't like that it opens with another time jump and we're told to care about the character is not given a reason to don't tell me, give me a reason, and that's the show. Don't tell Yeah. Well, and the difference between this in season eight, there's a key distinction. So the difference is Game of Thrones didn't really have like huge time skips.

It was just like characters would literally change their motives within days, right or you know, even at whereas this, there's enough time to say, okay, I could understand within those years a character could significantly change, but we just don't see it. So you get a similar impact. But like we know something happens, we just kind of have to fill in the gaps ourselves, and that's a bit frustrating. We have to do it over and over and over. Yeah it is.

Yeah, I don't I don't know, I don't know where the I don't know if the show is going to do some of the things from the book that the book did, but you're about to have a very long amount of time with a lot of battles and fighting. I mean to the point where it's like, like the list is just this long, and I wasn't kidding. The War of the Dragons, the Dying of the Dragons, as it's called in the book. This War of Succession goes from one twenty nine AC to one thirty one. That's two years.

It's two years, and we've already jumped thirty in this show. Like that to me is just wild, wild, absolutely wild. So onward and upward, I guess to the penultimate episode of this season, the Green Council. Yeah, all right, we'll see. I don't know.

You don't watch those After the Throne things, do you? I do? Usually I didn't. This week. Yeah, this the Yeah, the trailer for next episode definitely spoiled some stuff.

And then the after the Throne stuff was pretty good. Hey, Baymon Valerian dude MVP of the episode, I mean top five. Yeah, there are a few deaths in this show that have been as good as that one. That was a great just like out of nowhere. Man, I think we were all kind of just like something has to happen, means something that has that.

I did think Missaris was just gonna have kind of I was done, but I was like, nope, I'll take I'll take what Damon did. Yeah. I was kind of surprised that they contained themselves and didn't do that. And then just see his like yeah, like slide off, Like I was like, man, they really contained themselves because that's like gift wrapped because he doesn't cut his head up and down, he cuts it kind of at an angle. Yeah, And we see them prepare the bottle of body to take back to drift Mark for these burial Pretty gross.

Yeah, Yeah, it's m I think it's interesting that this show is really keeping the violence still like the like every episode it's still been a fair amount of violence, Like it's it's a violent show in a lot of ways. It's also like makes sense that it's a violent show because these the Targarians are so wild and insane and kind of all over the place. But Father Malone really did say it best in the last episode. It's like watching Hitler and Mussolini fight, like these are terrible people, like we should realistically not be rooting for any of them because they're all varying shades of shit. So sorry, bro, I'm team or Nira because this narrative is presenting her as such.

Maygor the Cruel was one of the kings before Jaharris. I think he was the king before Jahars and Rainia in the books is referred to as may Guard the Cruel with teats. So so do you see what I mean? Like they've made her in the show. I think Emma Darcy really coming into her own in this show.

Finally third episode of her in this show. But uh, yeah, they've made her a lot more likable than I think she is really intended to be in the source material. But she's great. She's great, right, She's great. Everybody.

I think everybody on the show is good. I think right, Like I think we're I don't know, I think we're the point now where like we've seen enough of everybody to make like a judgment call. Yeah, I'm bummed. Well I think other than them, I'm bumped. Patty Consonine is off the show now you could come back as a co ghost.

Yeah, okay, I'm glad that he was on the show for as long as he was, but at some point it was like they weren't using him very much. He was just like a gag, Like in this episode, he's kind of a gag, right, Like it was like, yeah, it's like it's like funny, tragic, it's sad. Yeah, look at him. He's a ghoul and he's falling apart. Isn't that gross?

It's like, yeah, it is fucking disgusting, frankly, but yeah, no, I am. I'm excited for the next episode. You've been watching Lord of the Rings, right, Yeah, yeah, since we haven't, we've I've talked more about this show on the Lord of the Ring Show, but I wanted to ask you are they I mean again, I think it's kind of is an inevitable comparison, given that they're both on at the same time. I don't think that's going to happen the next time the shows come back for their second seasons, but like right now, it's kind of inevitable that we're going to compare them, Like which which show are you enjoying more? I'm just curious because we haven't even talked about it.

I didn't even know you were watching Lord of the Rings until we were talking before we started recording. I think probably enjoying House with the Dragon more. But I think you could argue that Lord of the Rings might have doesn't have the same character problems. Oh, I would say it has different character problems. Uh like not why I would maybe it has the same just not give Like.

My issue with the Lord of the Ring show is they just haven't given us enough of a reason to care about some of these characters. Yeah, I do. I should care about all the main characters. Anything with the hard Foots, I really don't care about anything. Oh man, Okay, anything with the New Minians I do not care about.

I would say for me, I put them. The um el Ron story is like the best one. Yeah, it's like that. That one is just like very good. I think um the stuff with Um I can never remember his name.

The Puerto Rican Elf Rander, Puerto Rican Elf, Puerto Rican Elf, and the Iranian Middle Eastern and the Middle Earth. Woman, that's why you I was expecting you to stay that storyline. I like the one with the Iranian character in it. Now, I bet you do. No, I do like that storyline.

Um. The New menore piece with Gladriel. Like Galadriel stuff is not is like the least excited. It's hit, it's hit or miss. It's hit or miss free.

This recent episode a pretty big hit, though I felt like I liked her interactions with THEO. I do feel like not much happened in the episode, and then ain't the hard Foots and the stranger like now Destiny picking up with those weird ladies Like it's but I like you could have not showing the hard Foots at all, really and maybe in an episode and gotten to the same exact face right now, like I don't really care much about them, but maybe I'm just a heartless I think I think that they've given you enough in the show to satiate what you want. That adding stuff for other people is not the big of a deal. Does that make sense? Close?

The show is clearly checked some boxes for you, so like it's just additional stuff that you don't care about. It's not like it's not doing enough for you to watch it. I'm with you, I mean for me, like I I think I might prefer that show a little bit more to this one. But that's only and I will tell you why. It's only because we've never seen that time in that world, and this time in this world feels very much like what we've seen.

Right, It's like succession, the TV show in West Rows. Yeah, I think I just enjoy because it's such like a heavily dialogue focused show. Like I think I just enjoy the conversations more. Yeah, I will agree with you on that than Lord of the Rings. I mean, Lord of Rings has actually had more action set pieces which have been kind of cool.

Yeah, I just I guess I'm still not one hundred point sure on like where the endgame of Lord of the Rings is where it's like to know where the House of the Dragon is going, and maybe that's why. But I think they're both pretty good shows in their own ways. NEI them are the perfect, but it's the first season for both, and to be fair, House of the Dragon has a little bit more to lean on than the Lord of the Rings show does well. I mean depends on your how you view the situation, right as far as like it being a TV show and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's already done this before, like Lord of the Rings. This is a new endeavor for the folks over there at Amazon Studios to bring Lord of the Rings to the small screen.

Yeah, and it's been so long. I mean, even the Hot of movies, it's been, you know, several years since those were in theaters. So it's like it's been a while since they've done anything Lord of the Rings focus, whereas like it hasn't been that long since we had Game of Thrones on the small No, I mean two years, three years eighteen nineteen out of COVID doesn't count, so like one year really two years if we're counting. Yeah, theoretically, Yeah, I think I like Lord of the Rings more. But House of the Dragon is this.

I mean, I'm excited to watch bull shows every week, and I don't get excited about anything like that. Like I don't watch I don't watch new TV. I just don't do it. So doing this these two shows and like getting excited about them, it was different for me. So I appreciate that.

Yeah, I just they both have similar problems. This show. I think, just like this show has has really used that time jumping as a crutch, and I think by the end of the season, everybody's going to have that same conclusion. Maybe these next two episodes are chronological, but you've had so much at this point, Like, okay, so you stopped doing it in the last two episodes. You did it eight other times like yeah, yeah, so so until then, yeshar, I would ask you where people can find you on the internet.

But you're you're trying to keep a low profile. Yeah, yeah, because that lady's birds are watching Damon's girls watching. You know, she's not sorry, sorry, he's out here in the street. Your favorite actress in the whole show, Yes, okay, remember we said every actor is good on God. Wow, I'm taking this opportunity to drag this one actress.

I'm sorry. I'm sure she's really nice and maybe she's even not a bad actress holistically, but she has not been on this show. No no, but it seems like they're doing something with her. They're they're planning something with her. So yeah, well now it does on previously on Game of Thrones, this one character that we've seen two other times finally matters.

Yeah. I remember Damon was like banging his chick and I was like, oh yeah he was before he ordered his wife for like a while. Yeah. As for me, you can find me at weird ingwaymedia dot com, which is the site for all the podcasts that I work on, along with a whole bunch of other ones nineteen shows and counting and adding new ones every day. So that's where you can go to find more about me.

As for this show, Game of Bros dot Com, Game of brosen on social media, just like rate and review on iTunes. That's all you gotta do. That's all you need to do. Social media sucks. I know it.

You know it. That's why so many of us don't even use it anymore. As for your sear and I, yeah, we'll catch you on the penultimate episode or the first season of House of the Dragon.