Episode 7: Driftmark

Hello there, and welcome to Game of Bros. Another Game of Thrones podcast that exists on the Internet for your listening pleasure. I am your host, Chris Statue, and I am not joined by my good friend Yah Sharp Parasta this week. No, no, no, he's off having fun on vacation while the rest of us are slaving away dragon Stone with them dragon Eggs. I'm actually joined by my good friend all the way from destinations that are dark from a taxi stand at the edge of town.

Your friend and mine. He's one half of the Wolf and Raisin podcast. Follow them alone, Mayhaps. I'm happy to be here, your grace. You just have to talk like assholes for the next hour.

No, we will talk absolutely normally, and then every once in a while I'll say mayhaps, ye grace. Following alone. Before we get into the episode so aptly titled Drift Mark, the seventh episode of the latest iteration of Game of Thrones, otherwise known as HBO's Latest cash Cow, tell us a little bit about your exposure to Game of Thrones before House of the Dragon. I know you watched the original show. That's all I know you and I rumbled about there is I think you are now in the wrong, though, well in the wrong.

You are in the minority opinion, I think at least you used to be, unless you've changed my opinion. No, my opinion hasn't changed. I don't think the ending was undeserved. I just think it came too quickly. I think that there was one season missing there.

I think we spent so much time on the Manuta of early of the books basically that it kind of felt superfluous after the fact, Like I don't know why we spent so much time with the Dorn for instance, you know, like they did that paid off nothing. I mean, why did we spend so much time at Slaver's Bay. Our friend Mike White didn't believe me when I told him that one of the main characters from Game of Thrones, because we talk about the Lord of the Rings show that's currently on about to end on the podcast Power Mike White and I the Projection Booth Mike White. I was telling him about the whole weird paradox of Denis being in Game of Thrones but also not really being in the show for like three seasons.

It felt like, because she's in marine fucking around for like three seasons, right, that was should have been one season and then done and then she's on her path, and then that would have that could have given us the leverage to watch her slowly go insane, Like you know, it was always sort of, you know, inevitable that that was going to happen, So I wasn't I didn't have a problem with it. It's just it felt so rushed, Like it was like it was like there was almost another project that they wanted to work on that was better than what they were working on, only because of the state that they had left it in. Was that that Confederate Civil War thing that we're all star Wars much, or the Star Wars thing we're all enjoying so much.

It was the Star Wars thing that got canceled. That's what it was. Well, that's unfortunate, not really, not at all. I mean betting off and why it's like I'm okay with them not writing any more stuff for Game of Throne. I mean in general, I don't know, like in my mind, like they fucked up game.

I know that you didn't dislike Game of Thrones, but there are things that happened in the final season that show that I don't think you could even defend, like Aria killing the Night King of that that was great. I'm defending it right now, if it with a tiny knife that I'm going to drop into my other hand when you're not looking. I'm not going to give you the benefit of trolling me because I know you're full of shit. Actually no, I actually like that. But that was to only subvert our expectations, and that was it, because this show has been very clear what is.

This show has made it clear what was supposed to happen. This show is almost saying that's still gonna happen in the book, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, it feels there is part of this show that feels almost like a giant middle finger extended to Benny offenweis is it not? Do you think so? I don't know.

I think in the last in the George R. Martin was so pissed at the initial hunt in the first season a Game of Thrones that they redid a hunt in this season of the show, just to do it the way he wanted it to be done. Yeah. I think George R. Martin's a little bit of a vindictive bastard, but that's okay, or you know, he does have a vision and this is all these stories are just the same stories over and over again.

I mean, I agree, you know, you got to like, let's do it better this time. I agree. And that's the thing about Game of Thrones that I think is important now is maybe, and I think we're seeing it with this show. The original show, maybe won't be the most important thing anymore. It'll be like Star Wars, right, like, it'll be the beginning of the thing, but ultimately, like things that come after do a better job in doing what it did better.

And you know what, this show is a pretty good example of that. I kind of feel like because there's not a ton of unnecessary nudity, which not I'm not of an issue with it, but the first season of the show origin show, oh yeah, it was all nudity all the time because they needed to announce what kind of a show they were that this was going to be. You know, this is his Hobbits, This is Hobbits with tits, Like Ian McShane once said, like that show, it was all just dragons and tits pretty much. Yeah. So he was being scolded by the fan base for revealing that he was in a future episode, and he was just like, ah, I only like it for dragons, you know, I like, I actually think that this is going to sound weird.

But like first five episodes, like I thought, while all the performances are fantastic and I understand the necessary of the set of setting the pieces on the board, this show did not come alive to me until the episode we just watched, actually the seventh episode, yeah, or that the sixth is when we got reintroduced to that. We got introduced to them as adults, right right, right, So let me say, from episode six on, I'm now invest whereas with the kids and all that nonsense, I was just like, as fine as those performances are, particularly the girl playing young Ryan Era, I don't I would have preferred them to have given us the adults from the beginning and then threaded the flashbacks in a little bit better because they think they're being clever or something and doing it the way they're doing it, like maybe aping the Crown.

We're like, we're gonna give you a little bit of this and then we're gonna jump forward in time. Like it's it's jarring and it's not fun and it's a bad way to go for me. I've been saying the same thing the entire time we've been talking about this show. Unfortunately, this season of this show is going to get compared to The Lord of the Rings. Maybe only this season and nothing else, but they're on at the same time.

So there's no way, especially if you're watching both You Can't and The Lord of the Ring show. For as many problems that it has, it has done a better job of getting me invested in the characters because I can have time with the characters where they're not jumping forward every single episode. And this show, yes, seems to have calmed down. But at the preview for the end of the this episode, there's gonna be another goddamn time jump. So is there really Yeah, they show a preview at the end of this episode, Okay, okay, well if there's a time jump, okay, But like again, like, do we heap the same actors?

No, no, no, you're not not that the kid actors are like now teenagers. Yeah, I don't care about I don't care about that, but there but the teen that the teenage kids are. Here's the problem. We don't know who's the focus of this show, and you're about to find out that the focus of this show isn't even who you thought it was supposed to be to begin with, because the focus is now going to be the teenage kids of all of them. Really, they're a big part of this story.

Really, they're a big part of his story. Can't we just hang out with these Targarians for a while? But I agree that is I think the issue with this show is it feels a little Targarian's Greatest hits a little bit, you know what I mean, because it's like they're maybe it will slow down now that we're at the quote Dance of the Dragons part of the Targaryan history. Okay, I don't know what that is. That's this big thing that this is all building, Okay, all this big con I mean they've been hinting at this whole time, right, there's this big conflict coming, and that is that.

That's the conflict that's coming, is that amongst the Targarians, right right? Right? Yeah, Yeah, that's what this is all building towards. I think I agree with you on what they should have done. He's done something either just the adults with flashbacks or do an entire season of those people.

Then I might care because like Millie Alcock's gone now like great, all right, and she was a rain Era yep, and she's not coming back, not at all. Nope, that's that's tragic. I wanted to know more about her formative year. Well you've seen all you've needed to see. Well that's that's what it feels like, right, like, yeah, that's yeah.

You know, it's like every every couple of years we get to do doctor who you know, and like, of course it's the same character, but like there's an adjustment period there, like even even a show like The Crown, like going from one season to another, it's a real drag for a little while that we have to, you know, deal with this new thing. And then you eventually start to appreciate their charms. But I'm not sure why we were with Olivia Cook and the the actress playing right near and now, like from the beginning, and I don't I don't know either, because I think Emma Darcy is fantastic as Rainia, I mean, you know, and so is Olivia Cook. Like they're the child actors were good for what they needed to do.

But right it's it's it's a shame because this stuff is so interesting. They phantom menaced us. You know, they tried to make us fall in love with an adorable child so that we would their horrible actions when they were adults, not realizing that. Guess what, We're ready to accept horrible actions by adults. That's all we do on television now.

Well, and that's and that's the thing that I don't understand. So in this episode drift Mark, we I think we see for the first time now people who were watched and again, like I do have to say at this point in the watching of the show, I have started too, and I'm about three quarters of the way through Fire and Blood because I have been so taken by this narrative and what I am enjoying in the book, I am enjoying less in the show, but I enjoy I'm enjoying the same idea in both of this, like how intertwined these people are with one another, and I think the show does a good job of that. But the show has been baiting everybody in one direction with the ray near a character very hard, you know what I mean, Like she's not you're seeing in this episode she's awful, like categorically awful.

But to your point, like so is Tony soprano, right, so is Walter White exactly. So it's like every character postone problem or at least an attempt to get there. The problem with the original Game of Thrones is the characters are supposed to root for are way too good, like good good, like McLean John Snow who like what, I don't care about a John Snow show. I just don't And the less I think about it, the less interested I am, because where that character ended up was so gooded and toothless. And then you see Rayniero, who's just like, I'm a piece of shit and I don't care.

Like that's so refreshing, frankly for a character like maybe not everybody the audience is going to get on board with her because she's banging her uncle, which is like the hardest pill to swallow. It feels like, I know, you know. Then again, it's hard to judge the mores of this show about peoples, yeah who These are human beings who are basically fireproof, and they have psychic bonds with dragons, Like, I don't know that I can judge what they do and how they procreate. I'm not in any way condonating the love between a niece and a and an uncle or anything like, you know, this the idea that like it's shocking, these are the Targarians, like this is what it's supposed to be, right, And honestly, I think that's I think the other thing about this show that's doing kind of this undue damage to the original show.

It's making me realize more and more the original show should never have painted Denis the way they painted her, because like you mean, you mean in there like over overtime, overall cosmically good, like she was cosmically good until she magically wasn't She never should have been painted so one dimensionally. No, they had eight seasons or however many seasons to watch that decline, you know, I mean, I just mentioned we're saying it in the first season of this show already. I mentioned the Phantom Menace. At least we go that was six hours and then now now you got Darth Vader, Like you know, they had how many hours of entertainment And they were like, oh, I guess we forgot to drive her insane, right, because that's where we're supposed to be doing this entire time.

Well, they I mean, they always say the thing about you know, the whenever a Targarian is born, they flip a coin, right, who does that? The universe flips a coin? Oh okay, yeah, and it's like yeah, it's like I think they say it in the first or second season this show. It's like, you know, whenever it's our carrion is born, they flip a coin and whatever. You know, it's crazy or not crazy, because I mean, yeah, you have clearly the king at the beginning of this show, Jaharris is a good king.

I mean, you know, the ascension issues kind of are the reason we are where we are with the show. But then you have Vasari's who's not much of a king, and then we're going to get you know again, I now that I know where this is going, My overall concern is like, do they slow down now because they have to, because like most likely slow down like hard. Yeah. Well, I mean, how much of this is actually well okay, okay, okay. The book that you're referencing is a history book, right, so more or less right, so we don't know the actual plots and machinations and the character motivations.

We just know the dates and time. And what's even better about the book and the reason that you and everybody should read it. And it's something that Silmrillian doesn't do, but it's the most novel thing that George R. Martin does. He is saying that the book is being told to him and he's transcribing it.

Okay, George R. Martin is with it gets better within the Roberty Howard, right, but it gets better within the book. You have three sources of history, including the first hand account, so it's the first hand account, and then he talks about two accounts from people at the time, one of which is the court jester who is coming up with salatis has more salacious details, and then there's the master from the time who doesn't have salacious details. Right, tell me you see what I mean? Now you want to read it?

And okay, yeah, I mean that's that's kind of a fascinating fracturing of the of the narrative, right, because it'll be like, okay, so in the book, right, there's something we see in this episode. So in the book, lane Or for all intents and purposes, is assumed dead. Sir Carl killed him. In the book, nobody knew why Sir Carl killed him. The the the hung the thing.

I'm not even joking the hung Jester because he has a big dick and his name is Mushroom claims. You know, Damon Targarian paid someone to have him killed, or somebody paid or there was all these ideas. But in the show. It's interesting that the show was kind of like taking a stand on some of these things. Yeah, like this is a weird comparison.

But at the end of American Graffiti, they give us a little role where they let us know where all the characters ended up, and Terry the Toad's character played by Charles Smarton Smith were told died in Vietnam and the jungles in Vietnam in America more American Graffiti, we actually see Terry the Toad's story and we realized that he faked his own death and marched off into the jungle quite happily. So that's a little bit of this right here. You know, like you know that these things happen, but they can kind of fudge anything even that they you know, he's already setting it up with the multiple points of view, like anyone can be believed here. Now you need to read the books, you know what I mean.

Well, I'm going to you, prick, it's that's but that's the thing about it that's interesting is I didn't realize that while watching the show, and so it's kind of like you give yourself a golden parachute at any at any plot point where it's like you change the narrative. It's like, not really, maybe I can do whatever I want right right exactly, and like I've already said, I've already sown the seeds of like opportunities to get out of it because it's like, well, maybe this happened, or because in the book Rainiera and Damon it's never it's never definitively said that what happened between the two of them happened. You know, they do get married, we see that at the end of this episode, right, but there is no kind of there's kind of rumors that Damon is doing that stuff, but there's never anything with rainieris So again, it's interesting.

The show is kind of taking a stand on stuff, which is weird. I appreciate it though. It's great, Like I'm glad they're crafting their own narratives. They go along and but they didn't need the early stuff. They needed to do something better with the early stuff because I'm bummed that we're only getting five episodes of this season.

Now, yeah right, I want I wanted ten of these characters, and they could have just woven in the past history, you know, very very easy. I want to point out one thing in this episode, the opening scene, which is the funeral. If they're a seafaring people, I disagree with just dumping a statue off of a cliffs as a memorial. It should have been somewhere out to see. Okay, that that was a quival I had while I was watching, But the sort of reception afterwards is masterfully written and film watching these characters circling each other and the lack of dialogue where every line is being heard in your head just from these characters glances to one another.

That scene, more than dragons, more than battles, more than anything this season, was my favorite scene there the entire show. And what's funny is like put that as a counterpoint to two episodes ago where you have the marriage of Rainia and Leanor and that scene which felt to me like a complete mess because it didn't have the sense of direction and space that this this episode scene does. Because they're very similar scenes, they're trying to ratchet up the tension, and that one has more of a blowoff. I guess this one's blow off is a little bit more protracted, but the blow it works better here. It's tense for everyone here, right, Whereas that it's it's just a it's you know, it's a wedding scene and then one character comes in and basically declare's war right, So, I mean there was no build up to that at all.

I mean, other than a full season of that character being disappointed. Yeah, but I like this. I like this scene a lot, and we spend a lot of time in this scene. We spent like twenty minutes here, you know, Yeah, it's it's almost half the episode. I loved it.

You know, you can people talk that say things like boardroom stuff or like you know, don't go to the Galactic Centate it's too boring. Like well, if you do it right, you do it like this, then you can. I could have taken an hour of this of these characters and their machine age imaginations too much. I mean, it's I mean, it's it's exactly what this is. I mean, that's that's the thing about the later seasons A Game of Thrones that didn't get that.

The first season did. And that's why this feels so much like the first season is because the show is about the action, but not the action. A lot of the action takes place elsewhere. It's it's two conversations between two characters, you know, fighting one another in verbal warfare, not necessarily physical hand to hand combat. And the best scenes of the original show were that, I mean, the Battle of the Bastards was cool to look at, but adiotic in every other side I mean, and every other sense of the word.

It made no sense. But Hard Home, on the other hand, Yeah, Hard Home is an hour or so of television that once it ended, I watched it again immediately, and I will throw it on every once in a while. That's fair. That is an amazing episode. But the North of the Wall ship in the second to last season of the show, no, you know what I mean, Like, that's the problem with this show.

Like the fun stuff, I feel like they stopped thinking about the things that people liked once the show got towards the end, and they just wanted the big set pieces, the big pay Yeah, you've waited so long for the payoff, Now you get to see it or not, depending on how lit that scene is. Yeah, well, god, remember that I do. And you know what's weird. Miguel Sapochnik is a show runner on the show, and this show none of that. For the most part, they learned their lessons, I know.

But now when they use darkness, they're using it creatively and not as a blanket to convince us that we're seeing something we're not something way cooler than it actually is. Yeah. Well, they use it a lot. In the scene with aim and learning how to ride the dragon. What a good scene, Like this entire episode's great.

Yeah, that's that's an amazing scene. And they refrain from the sort of yahoo moment where he's having a great time. It's it's nothing but terror in respect from this kid on top of the dragon, as it should be, and that particular dragon they are correct, the big one. Yeah, yeah, big old the dragon that's been written by like three people. It is beautifully rendered.

Oh my god. The scene in the last episode where it's deciding should I should I burn you like you're my person? Like that? That performance was good. No, you know, we talked about that in the last episode.

It's interesting because we're so used to seeing these just like svelt slim, like you know, kind of like just like perfect killing machines because that's what they are in this world. And then you see this like nasty craggy asked dragon, but you get but when you see the dragon, you get the sense of the power and the history and the like hundreds of battles and they yeah, it's it's impressive because again, if you're gonna have this giant budget, you better do something interesting with it. Yeah, And well, they have not skimped on the production. No, it looks better than the original show did at the end of the run of the last show. It looks better when that show was at the height of its CGS.

Right. Well, they very wisely have focused on basically one small area, right, Like, you know, we go to some different locations. I'm not saying we don't, but the Game of Thrones as a series was so far flung, and we spent so much time with all these other people and in that sort of storytelling that's like every nation effectively like sort of trying to converge on King's landing because they all want to take the throne. We're devoid of that here. It's just the machinations in King's landing, and then anytime we go anywhere else, it's just because it all affects back and it's a much more immediate Not saying anything wrong with the way Game of Thrones did it, but this sort of level of storytelling is a little more interesting to me.

This allows for what we just said, like a conversation can be just as destructive as a gigantic scene with two armies of CG people running at each other. Well, and that's the other thing, you know, again, like we can't help but compare it. You know, the Lord of the Ring show is doing what the original Game of Thrones show did where it's got like eight different pockets of people all over the world. But even that show understands like time to close the net, like we're going to close the net earlier than you even thought, like and that I feel like that's almost a response. And this show is obviously response to the original Game of Thrones being like, you can't take eight seasons to do half of this stuff because like you're not going to land it, and they didn't, and this show is metering it out in a way that I feel like as an audience member, it's giving me something every episode that's kind of a big thing to happen, but still filling it in with like clearly just as important, if not more important stuff in the in betweens of these bigger set pieces.

Yeah, you know, I think it's important to listen to an audience not necessarily adhere to what they're saying, like, and I think obviously this is a case of that happened. Remember remember when that Batman Superman movie came out and they like destroyed Oh no, the Superman began, he destroyed all of Metropolis and he was like, oh my god, he probably killed thousands of people just on his own accidentally. And then Age of Ultron came out and they took pains to like the entire last act of that movie is making sure everyone gets safe there to safety. That was a direct reaction to that. So I'm sure everything that we did not like about Game of Thrones, and everyone is very vocal about it, has been absorbed and processed by these show runners who were, as you said, part of the original run of the show.

And I'm sure or just like all of us looking around and going, oh, really, we're doing this, We're doing this well. And that's the thing about this show. You know, I was just probably as loud as a lot of people were, like I'm not gonna fucking watch this show. I had no intention of watching this show. And you know what I can say on it, quivocally, I have been enjoying the shit out of this show.

Even those first five episodes like there weren't the best thing, but you know what, like it was still better Game of Thrones than I had gotten for like four seasons of the other show. That's the other problem, Like it felt so fresh because the show had stunk for so long. Yeah, definitely, you know, honestly, the only reason I did was to see what Matt Smith was going to do. Did he disappoint you? No, He's the best part of the show.

He kind of is the best part of the show, is he. I don't want to sort of put him above anybody else because there's lots of really good work being expectation wise, though I think he's exceeding it. He sure is, Yeah, because I expect him to be sort of sly and smug, but I didn'tink evil doctor who and even when he was the doctor, I kind of wish they hit let him tip into that Jory. You could see it right behind his eyes. Well, Tenant, Tennant embraced it, Capaldi embraced it, Eccleston embraced it, probably the most out of all of them.

Like, yeah, Matt Smith was kind of the look. I love Matt Smith. That's the set. My second favorite run of the show is with him as the doctor behind obviously I mean David Tennant right, well for you yeah, well yeah, I mean yeah, okay, sorry, it's right. I know, I know, I know what I know.

Yeah, that's fair. I've never watched that that version of the show. It's readily available on the BBC. Go watch them now watching Game of Thrones and watch Doctor that's fair. But to be fair, like he was the cutesie doctor Tom Baker.

No, I mean well, no, Matt Smith. Matt Smith. Yes, Matt Smith was the younger, identified topic adorable one. Yeah. They sold his outfit at Hot Topic.

You get suspenders and a little fez and Hot Topic. That was like the height of doctor Who. Honestly, that was like the hyph No fucking a. I would everybody liked what I was doing, I would keep doing it. I mean I went to Comic Con to meet Matt Smith because of how much.

Yes I have a picture with Matt Smith, super nice guy. What do you say? What do you say to you? I don't even remember the future I would ride dragon, I don't remember. Loved me even more.

You know how those comic cons are you not just to look at him, Stare at the ground, look at the camera, don't look at them. They don't want to know you, they don't want to see you. Yeah, they have fucking liking sounds of lambs. They got the fucking they get the stuff, the vapor rub undernea their nose. They don't smell you.

Yeah, you know, Look, Matt Smith is the best part of the show. But I think it's also because they've used him very sparingly. Thank god, thank good, because even you know that the sort of battle of the crabs, the crab battle, whatever that was, whatever that was, is right, that was a game of Throne season seven and eight is oh my god, it was garbage. Like you know, I don't I don't want to give the impression then I think the first five episodes are worthless. I do not think that.

I think that's all information that the audience absolutely needed, and it was handled very very clumsily. So I agree. And now that we've gotten adults and characters that we can sort of identify with and sort of either you know, either not identified with necessarily, but like, you know, either respect their evil motives or not. You know, like I don't need to know how good you were at one point in your life to respect how well you maneuver into this environment. You know, this environment overall, you know.

Chris, we had a conversation recently about this show, and I was saying, like, it's kind of like watching hit In, Mussolini and Hirahito, like all deciding who's going to be the head of the Axis powers. Like it's a little bit like that, which is a little unusual. And it's really in this show more than any other anti hero show because as bad as Tony Soprano or Walter White could be, like, their sphere of influence is pretty limited. These people are controlling the lives of everyone and they're all goddamn lunatics. Well, and that's and that's the thing that I mentioned about Denis.

It's like, why did we ever think Denarius was saying to begin with, why did the showrunners do that? Because we didn't have this show to let us know that that was going. No, but we had history all happened though already. Why didn't we get flashbacks to early Targarians show? We got Jaharis two on the throne going burn them all, and that was it.

They always talk about shot, right, they always talk about how crazy the Targarians are, but like they never show us until it's like until it doesn't matter, like when the bells ring, like they've gone crazier for less. Guy, are any of the characters we have so far seen on screen going to actively affect any of the events from the previous Game of Thrones? Have anyone? Has anyone been born like like Jaharris the mad King? Like is no, We're still not there.

We're not there yet. We're still very far away. Okay, it's like two hundred years, right, I went and looked at how many like previous king there are more than several in between where we are now with Vassara's being king. Even so, the Saras will be dead by the end of this season, right, yeah, yeah, I would assume. Again, I don't know how long they're taking, Like, you know, it seems like in that episode eight they're they're waiting to push the Saras off the cliff so they can get the real fight going, which is too bad because Patty Considine.

I love Patty Considine too, man, He's always great. He's a great actor, but I'm always just like, you know, he used to manage New Order and Joy Division really well. In the movie twenty four Hour Party People, he played their manager and he was great in that. That was the first thing I ever haven't I only think though, I think the first thing I ever saw him in was Hot Fuzz. Oh yeah, yeah, well that would make sense.

That's right on the heels or around the same time. Yeah, that was like what two thousand and seven. Yeah. In fact, Simon Pegg is in twenty four Hour Party People as a journalist at one point of a musician music journalist. Twenty four Hour Party People is a Steve Coogan movie, and yes it is in an incredible movie.

It's about Tony Wilson, the founder of Factory Records, who you know, Joy Division gotcha and you know editor you know. And Patty Considine has directed a film that I have been wanting to see you for a while, Tyrannosaur, which also has Peter Mullen in it who is currently on Lord of the Rings so yet isn't. Yeah, he sure has under under a lot of makeup, A lot of makeup a question because we've talked about this a lot on this show. Wigs have gotten better since the first couple episodes of the show. Yeah, oh, extremely man.

Those first episodes of the show were still sorting out the Targarian wig situation. Yeah, you know that. It shows the one family that was like everyone has to be wigged was like, yes, they're the most interesting. Yes, we do want to know about them. And every actor is just like Jesus Christ, like do I just haven't like braided in and like leave it there for the season, or Olivia Cook's like I don't have to do anything.

Yea Brown absolutely favorite character on the show. By the way, my favorite Cooker shows her. I like her dad a lot. I'm a huge Reciphons fan. Though he's like the voice of is he the voice of Old Guard?

I guess, But it's also like the voice of Reason in a lot of ways. In a lot of ways, but I think her character actually absorbed the reason and he's more underhanded than yeah than not. I think she'll probably get there, But like but at the same time, can you blame him for being underhanded when the king didn't listen? Yes, I can blame him because he's clearly have he clearly has ulterior motives. But they all do, I know, but you know, and you know what, maybe, like I said, I think the Olivia Cook character though Allison, like like in the midst of all this Targarian madness, she might actually be a beacon of hope, even though she's giving us more of them and they're going to be worse than anybody right roll.

And that's the thing. I mean, we finally I think in in in Earnest meet the kids in this episode, because I mean we've met him last time, but like now we're getting to see more about Agon and Amon and Amon who's just you know, he's gonna be the one you just know, And then in this episode it's like, Yep, he's the one. He's the he's the big piece of shit, like just unequivocal. He gets his dragon and becomes a dick immediately. Maybe it is that quick with the Targarians.

All that takes this. Yeah, you get the power of a dragon behind It's like people driving an eighteen wheeler it's like, fuck everybody else in the road, get out of my way. I mean, that's I mean in a lot of ways, that's the narrative of the show, right is we have the dragons, we have the power. Yeah and yeah, I mean you know and Lord high Towers that their name is at his name, yeah, recyclings. Yeah, he says it.

You know, like it's right, like lose an eye in both your eyes if you can get a dragon out of it, like it's an unstoppable killing machine. Like right, you can go anywhere else into the world with that dragon and start your own goddamn kingdom. Or the dragon could take you somewhere else in the world. That's what I mean. No, no, no, like just take you oh like like bidden, yes, which happens in the book.

That's, like I said, there's some some stuff in the book that's like horror. The dragons. The dragons are scary and like they're really scary because in the in the source material, it's made even more clear that they're less controllable, like even the Targarians are afraid of writing. I hope we see some of that, honestly, a little more of that, a little more The dragons just kind of do what they want. And you know we kind of mean we kind of saw that Game of Thrones, right, yeah, yeah, we did where it like you know, it was in the villagers and stuff, and they're like, could we please control the dragons so it stops eating goats and burning him and it took remember it took de Narris.

Do you remember the whole yea Ray, the doth racky interlude of that show. Yeah, yeah, that stuff is seared into my memory from that first run of the show. Yeah, I think those first couple of scenes were real good, if if a bit disjointed in meandering after the fact. Yeah, yeah, I will tell you though, like for for where the show is going, it's doing. It's doing some interesting things with the source material, and I think it's giving I think it's giving the right characters the right focus, because you could really get bogged down in some of these characters focusing more on the kids.

But you know, I think even though there are like we said, it's not splitting the show up all over the place. It's more just splitting the show between like three places, two places, Dragonstone and King's Landing. They're still like thirty plus characters in the show already. Yeah, you know, I said, when Graham mc tavish is in the show, and he's on the show like he's been in the show like four times, what it feels like which one is saying? He plays Sir Harold Westerling.

He plays like the King's guard. He's one of the hobbits from Lord of the Rings. He's in the show for like, he's in it a little bit. I'm not even sure he was in this episode. I can't remember.

There are too many characters. Oh yeah, he's he's bald, he's bald with go with the big beard and the mustache. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's got a great voice. Yeah he does. Yeah, there's tons of people in the show.

As my point, like, and it doesn't feel like there's it doesn't feel like it's pulling itself too far yet. No, no, yet. And I'm interested to explore some of the other characters. Honestly, Lord Corless, I'm looking forward to spend a little more time over there, particularly with what's her name? She's the actual target.

Oh, Rainy's the queen who wasn't the queen who wasn't That character fascinates me. That actress is fantastic, Like the scene this episode between the two of them to Chord Listener where she's just like, you know, why are you even trying it? You know where our children are being devoured now, and like you still want this throne? Like look what they're all doing, Like there are some moments of sanity here, even amongst the target arians, it would see. It's insane to me that in the original run of the show they never mentioned the whole getting cut by the iron throne thing.

That's such a big part of this season of the show, which showing the king like falling apart, which I think great. By the way, Patty Consonine just like looking real looking, real rough, looking, real rough. Ten years have been good to everybody else, Matt Smith particularly, but definitely not Patty Consonine. The serious he's looking at this point. He has one arm, he's like bald, he's and now he's hunched over too.

Yeah, it's just look, he's looking real rough. You know what's funny, Like last shot in the in the episode is Leanar. It's revealed that he's alive, right and rowing off to a ship. Right At first, I didn't recognize that that was Leanar and I thought they were rowing toward the king ship like like Rain was was really going for it. She was not only going to take out this enemy, She's gonna take out her dad too.

And I was like, wow, like this this is accelerated. But I guess no, it was just to let us know that he was not dead. He's gonna go get some hot pirate ass absolutely out on the the open waves. Why not, right, Well, you know it's his legacy. Yeah, how do you how do you feel about the the the the Master of Whisperers character.

I'm a little already tired of him, honestly, it feels a little I mean like I don't want to put in the position where it's Dave s x Machina, but they're doing it already with his character. Also, just logistically speaking, he would not be on the vessel carrying the King and the queen, you know, like the idea that he's standing there staring at her and like everyone in the court knows that looks are just as important as anything, Like like when Vissaris learns that his wife is the one spreading the rubers about the bastard children, like because Aigon or Amon or whatever that whatever, whatever that one eyed bastard is looks directly at her, like the fact that someone tells her like he's been staring at you unabashedly this entire time, Like her reactions should have been, go tell him to go look elsewhere, Like, you know, it's a little obvious that this guy is, you know, pulling string.

Well, and again, it's just I'm worried about you know again, I'm knowing where it goes. And the books is one thing, but the show is kind of obviously focusing on certain people, giving certain people a bigger role in the narrative than they even had in the book. So it's it's it's kind of interesting to kind of see where where a lot of the characters are going, because yeah, it leaves us in an interesting spot at the end of the episode because Visserras, I guess, is just a physical manifestation of the rain of the Targarians poisoning itself. Yeah, I mean, he's aging rather rapidly in its ten year period, right, he's falling apart, just like his I don't know, I feel like I feel like the show is I feel like we're probably gonna get to two more episodes and then the blowoff episode at the end.

I don't think it's I think we're tensioning up to something and then I think we're gonna get the usual penultimate episode is the big one, and then the climax is the final episodes, the blowoff episode, because there's they're pushing really hard all of a sudden, you know what I mean, Like things are happening very quickly, all of a sudden. Yeah, it's like the episode is so this is a great episode of television, There's no question about it. But yes they are. They seem to be running real fast now and they have extra ground to cover because if they keep jumping around in time, stop doing that. Yeah, I'm the time jumps.

I'm not. I'm not the biggest fan of Yeah. You know, like as great as this act the actress playing rain Era is, now, like there was an adjustment perio where I'm like, wait, this is not the performance I'm used to, Like it's kind of there, but it's not. You know, we had five hours to get used to that girl. Yeah.

Yeah, and we're not going to get enough time with some of the younger Targarian actors, which is fine, but at the same time, like I feel like the next time jump has to be the last one, like it has to be hopefully unless they're gonna jump like you know, fifty years. Well I mean again, like there's plenty of other Targarian stuff that happens past that point. Yeah, but like I guess I didn't understand what the point of the show was then if like we're already here, yeah, because it's like a three season show is as an eight season show, Like I don't this is an endless cash grab of a show. That's it. If it we're an endless show, they would have started with Agon the conqueror one, the guy who came over and took over Westeros, Like that would be you know, like that's what I'm thinking, Like that's what I guess, knowing what I know now, it's weird that this is where they started.

It makes sense if this is House of the Dragon, you could tell that story and it's entire day, especially if you're gonna time jump anyways, like just do like the Crown. I don't know why they didn't embrace it more, is what I'm sitting here and wondering. Like, the more we talk about this, because this time jumping thing, I feel like the time jumping thing is going to be the all all anybody talks about about the first season of the show once it's said and done. It's like, remember how weird that season was with all the time jumps. We're talking about it right now.

Yeah, we've talked about it on almost every episode because it's just a little much. And now they're doing it again again after the big one. Maybe they've got some plan where they're gonna keep jumping back and forth in time, you know, we don't know. I don't know. I feel like this has got to be only like a two or three season show that that that has unless they go way further into the history.

But I that's what I'm saying, Like they've given themselves enough room that they can go forever on the show just as is, but they also could just take it right up to the to the birth of Dnias Targarians right well, and again, like this whole conflict that we're about to get into with the Targarians, like it's as big of a deal as the Night King. I mean, it doesn't end the world like The Night King suposedly does. But what's funny is it's going to make everything that happened in the first Game of Thrones look like nothing compared to this. And that's what this is leading to. And it's just like, is that what we're gonna get for like two seasons, because that's gonna be a lot.

So I just don't know. We're gonna have lots of dragons attacking each other. Yeah, so dancing and dancing, well, I'm dying to see the dancing doing the Charleston yeah, you know, mambo, you know, doing a little bit of slinky, a little a little sex. I want to see vagar like all their craggy glory, like you out busting a move dragons do in the foxtrot? Absolutely, why not?

Right? Yeah? Is there a dragon dance out there already? Some dance craze. We don't know about that, you know.

I think we could just plug the dragons and do the dragon dance. Yeah that thing. Flap your wings and stop your feet. We're doing it to the dragon beat. There you go, that's not a real thing.

I just came up with that. It is real. Now, print that ship will just print money. You imagine Besaras just starts stomping his feet and clapping his hands with the dragon dance. Yeah, No, I uh, I'm enjoying.

I'm still enjoying the show. I'm glad that we're kind of chugging towards the end. The stakes are kind of ratchet it up a little bit. But I feel like, I don't know, I feel like with all these time jumps, there's just not been very much tension with the show. Not a lot of tension.

Not the character building has been specific almost like completely contained. Like four characters pretty much. Yeah, like, yeah, we're down to it. We're down well maybe six, right, but they're there. How many of them are gonna be there by the end of next episode?

I don't know, we'll probably at least another one. What I I mean like it feels, you know, like my hope is with the next season of the show, like the first episode is them just like blowing it up again and like introducing a shitload of new people. Well, I don't know what they're going to have to do. I guess I don't know. I don't know that they're going to kill that many of No, not killing, just like introducing new people because they're like there are houses that we haven't seen that we know exist.

Oh thank goodness, right, right, Okay, I bet you see what I mean, Like, if we're going to get other dragons, the scope of the scope of this story is as big as the scope of the Game of Thrones story. Okay. I was concerned that this was just going to be a bunch of people swirling around King's landing and doing backstabbing to one another. I mean, I know, obviously we're gonna be dragons and you know, fire and people are going to die horribly, but I didn't know that the scale of it was going to approach anything like like hard Home. Well, like you said, I mean, ultimately, this is the question of who rules all of the seven kingdoms.

So let's it's some other dragons in there, baby. Yeah. And you know what, if the child actors aren't expected to carry the dramatic tension of the next three seasons or two seasons of the show, I'm glad they're recasting them. Yeah, it's unfortunate that there are in two episodes, but yeah, but lucky they're got that gig. You know, there can be on a convention circuit for the rest of their lives.

Now it almost feels like it's just primarily to show aim in getting his eye sliced out. Well, if that's what this was, and we get more dragons, and we get the cast basically that we have now, okay, and more Matt Smith. But that's like always like I feel like that's always like a given with this show. It's like more of that. Yeah, so he's going to be the big one to go next season, right, what they'll kill him next season?

Well, that's the thing. What I don't know about the show is like, what is the timeline? Because Game of Thrones, like the original show, there was that was the whole question, right, was we're past you know g R r M's books. Now what do we do? Like, there's no way to get past it with this unless you literally go past where we are now for sixty years more because he hasn't written the second half of the history.

It's only up until a certain point. Then he's going to write the history from that point too, Denares. That's how far ahead we are is there are two books chronicling everything. Maybe we should instead just enjoy what we're getting as it done. That's what I'm thinking.

I just I am enjoying the show. I don't think I think we've got basic blueprint that they don't even care about and they're just gonna do whatever the hell they want. I just don't rush, you know what I mean, Like, there's so much there's so much stuff you can focus on. Don't rush, Yes, slow down time job. Like they showed in this episode, you can take your time and you can give us some tense moments of just people looking at each other.

We don't need everyone to be murdered at the Red Wedding. No. As good as good as that was, please don't do that again. We got that. No.

I'm I'm excited for the final three episodes of the season. I'm enjoying this show a lot more than I thought I would, for sure. Oh yeah, but like just had zero interest in the show, and I'm invested. So on the next episode, we're going to be coming at you. Talking about the eighth episode of the first season, half of the Dragon.

That episode is titled The Lord of the Tides. Who is that? Well, who is the Lord of the Tides? I don't know. You tell me it's me.

I am the Lord of the Tides. I forgot to tell you right before. I'm sorry. Oh well, now I know. I'm glad you corrected me.

Yeah, yeah, but until then, Lord of the Tides, where can people find you when you're not here? Stepping in for for my wayward co host That's that's basically what I do. I step in for wayward co hosts. If you want to find out any more of my nonsense, go over to follow them Alone dot com. It's a link tree to everything I do, including Wolf and Raising the Banachek podcast or Dark Destinations, both of which Chris mentioned very generously at the top my half hour radio drama that I write.

No Game of Thrones talk, though, this is like the first time we talked to Game of Thrones on a recording together. I think, yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've talked to Game of Thrones back and forth. We've texted angrily when yeah, but yeah, but this is the first time we've committed anything to tape or digital whatever. They may not get to ask you again, at least in recording.

What is your favorite HBO show currently or in general? Oh, favorite, Given that some people might say Game of Thrones, it's probably the Sopranos, Like, that's kind of unassailable, that show beginning that I agree, I agree, it's like the greatest show made it's up there. It's definitely we're still feeling its impact today literally, this show, yeah, definitely, yeah, I mean Game of Thrones. Never this, this version of Game of Thrones lends a lot to that. Maybe not the original run of the show, but what this show is trying to do definitely lends a lot to what Game of But the Sopranos laid down like this is the Godfather, This is you know, the Nine the Five Families, rather like you know, buying for control of the kingdom.

Whereas Game of Thrones we had any number of miscreants trying to grab hold of the crown. But you know, we had some good people too. There were plenty of decent people before. I've yet to see any here. Fully, I don't think we're going to get any and I think that's the exciting part.

Yeah, you know, it's like good to watch bad people do bad things to each other and leave us alone. Unfortunately, these people rule the world in this particular world. That's fair. As for me, you can find me at cstash dot com, cstac hiw dot com. That's my link tree.

Go there for all the things that I work on. Father'men alone and I work on a couple of things together. I work on some stuff with Mike White. I mentioned well, Father Malone's here and we mentioned Mike White before. As for this showgameabros dot com.

You can find us on all social media, but just listen to the show, rate and review on iTunes. That's all you have to do. I don't have to interact with social media. Nobody wants that. You don't want that.

I don't want that. Do you want that? Cool? But like that's up to you. Father Malone, thank you so much for joining me my pleasure, and yeah, we'll catch you on the next episode.