Black Peter

We're waiting. So, Mike, every year on the Culture, can we do a month for you one of one of my closest friends, someone who I consider a big part of my podcasting journey. But this month, this month, this year, it's not March. It's Mike White May. Yeah.

Why why'd you push me back? I don't know, man, I don't know. I don't even I don't even remember what we did in March at this point, Like I think it was Jess fired March. Was it? No?

No, because Jess is always like June or July? Well was I don't even remember. God fucking I don't know. Uh, but yeah, it's Mike White May everybody, And you know what that means. It's gonna be movies that are way too high proud for this show.

Normally your wife is just gonna hate me even more. Chris. See, Miked, I made a decision to know that when Mike White March or May rolls around, it's just gonna be me watching the movies. I'm just gonna fuck off to my idiot hole for an hour and a half, watch my movie, and then come back and be like, what did you want to talk about? So, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.

On this episode of The Culture Cast, I am still your host, Chris Chris Stashue, much to the chagrin of many the voices you've heard, you've heard them before, but you're hearing them once again. I'll introduce them. The man of the hour, the man who hosts the Projection Booth podcast eats Mike white May's Mike white Yeah, named after me. Yeah, not the film director Mike White right, infinitely more important Mike white is. I don't know about that.

I've never gotten Jennifer Coolidge a golden globe so far, not yet. You haven't, right, wow yet talk real bad? Yeah, because that's what Milie. That's what the ghost of Milo's foreman wanted on this episode of the show, was for us to do Jennifer Coolidge impersonations while talking about Jennifer Coolidge impression and also joining us. They are one of the hosts of the Scary Stories We Tell podcast.

Your friend and mine chess fired. Hello. Hi, I completely didn't remember what the theme of this month was, so speaking now to speak the more you know I've heard? Uh So, as I mentioned, it is Mike white May and we are doing movies that Mike you program. So I'm gonna turn floor over to you and tell me a little bit about why we're talking about the films of milosh Foreman holistically.

And then why did you pick nineteen sixty fours Serna Peter? Otherwise though it is black Peter, did you want it? So? What bis Sony style al nedation it so much as you give it what you like. SOI polt sense nappers business astronaut them cost one out them radio anigampa, I aishleistyle Ah.

Why well, I think it might have come partially from a conversation we were having about one flew over the Cuckoo's Nest and I don't think now have you seen that one? Nope? Okay, okay, which Andy Roush on my last episode he was like, Hey, what Milos Forman movies are you doing? And I rattled him off and he was like, you have not? Have you seen one flu over the cucus?

That's like I have not And he was like, Mike did not pick that ice? Yes? Well I could have gone with the easy ones. I could have gone with rag Time or I'm a dais or Hair or the Man on the Moon. Yeah, the people versus Larry Flint.

You know, but I said, this guy has only quote unquote only directed twenty two films or fewer than that, because I think there are things in this filmography an IMDb that are not really films. There's some shorts, there's some music video. There's a lot of stuff of his that I hadn't seen though, and this was one of them. I've had this on my to watch list for a long damn time, and that's how I did all of these films this month. So it is Milosh Foreman films that I haven't seen.

And as Jess Buyer so eloquently put it, instead of Mike White, may maybe it is Mike White made a mistake. But wait, there's more. Because all those movies you named, and you picked the one about the guy who works at a grocery store, Well, it is very kind. Yeah, it's it's interesting that this does fit in his filmography really well, like looking at If Only They Ain't Had Them Bands, and then Audition and then you see Black Peter. It really leads well into Loves of a Blonde and then Fireman's Ball, which really, you know, Loves of a Blonde helps put him on the world stage.

Fireman's Ball takes him to the next level. It's kind of repetitive, a little bit of a blade and love, but a little bit you know, past that, and then we'll talk about taking off maybe next week, and that puts him in America, and shortly after that he does Cuckoo's Nest and just right off the map. Well, and that's and that's the thing about Milosh Foreman that I do think is interesting, Mike, because you have given me the opportunity several times on your show to be part of commentaries for some of the releases that have been Check New Wave films, and so this is kind of like right in there. Oh boy, Yeah, sure is, which is really funny because you know, like you mentioned Jess, like why pick this movie and if in a lot of ways like it's a slice of life, folks, it is.

It's a slice of life in a less interesting way than all My Good Countryman was another Check New Wave film. But to your point, Mike, like this fits right smack dab into that like milieu of Check New Wave because those movies similarly to this one can be interpreted and would rightfully be interpreted and again could be lambasted as meandering Cassandra cat I don't think so much. But all my good countrymen in this movie. You could make the case that they're kind of meandering, but I think there's I think it's less about what's going on, really, because there's so little going on, and I think it's more of just setting a mood and a vibe and just letting the players play their parts and seeing what comes of it.

But I also felt the same way about those check new wave films that I was able to work with you on, Mike, I felt the same way. It's like, this is a very interesting way of making film that is unique and distinct to a time in a place, which is the sixties in Eastern Europe, Czechoslovakia more specific. Yeah, and I you know, don't get me wrong. I like a movie that is purely a vibe in a place. I think, but for me that this is a vibe in a place that I do not connect with, nor do I want to connect with.

Really, it's not a pleasant place. It's like impairing Godar and Trufau where I feel Trufoe I always had a little bit more story and a little bit more of a plan and Godar always felt very messy. This feels more like it's messy and feels very even. You know, we've got credited writers on here. You know, we've got Foreman himself, We've got Yaroslav Papusak, and Pope Sack.

He worked with Foreman on these movies, the ones that I'm talking about, the Blonde and Love Fireman's Ball. You also worked on intimate lighting with Ivan Passer, who was another co conspirator of Foreman's and that's very much the same to even down to the idea of musical instruments and you know, the just very awkward social gatherings. I mean that seems to be the thing with these movies. I mean, Blonde and Love or Loves of a Blonde has this whole thing of you know, hey, here's this town where there are much more women than there are men. So we're going to bring in these soldiers, We're going to try to pair them up, and there's this big social gathering.

Fireman's Balls right in the title, folks, there's a Fireman's ball in that, and it's very much the same thing. So like they were then not necessarily treading water, but they definitely had ideas as far as like, we're going to take people and put them in the social situation. Some of them will be professional actors, some of them won't be professional actors, and we'll just see what happens when we let them loose and put a camera on them. And I think that the results are a little bit more what's that phrase, Your mileage may vary, you know, some of the results are better than others. I think there's much more structure in The Blonde and Love.

I think that they, you know, start with that idea and they've got some really good performances in there, and then they really structure more of a narrative around that same thing with a fireman's ball this one, Yeah, there isn't that much of a narrative, and it's really like big chunks of improv feeling scenes where it's okay, Peter goes to work at this place, doesn't do a really good job. He is supposed to be watching for shoplifters. He goes home and talks to his dad about, oh, I let the shoplifter go, but I followed him, and then his dad burates him, and we just get that kind of pattern of like he comes home, and then his momberings, and he comes home and his dad burates him, and it's just after a while it got a little old where I was just like, Okay, I mean, I guess I can see what they're doing talking about, you know, the society of Czechoslovakia in nineteen sixty three when this was made, or sixty four.

But yeah, I feel you just this was not necessarily something where I sho oh, this is compelling cinema. Had I been in a cinema watching this, I think it would have been a lot easier than sitting at my couch watching this, because I was just so tempted to start looking at other things. Yeah, to be distracted by everything else. I would agree with that. You know, I think that that movies like this that are more slow meandering, not particularly there to tell a story per se, but to give you kind of an insight on what the culture and the life is for people of this, you know, time and place and being in the movie theater at least.

Yeah, like that, that's you can w I had a very hard time focus. I mean, really, this movie's not for and a half of a lot of nothing happens to these characters are also going shame. There's no arc, there's no real conflict between any of the characters, other than like a rivalry between the two bricklayer boys and Peter. But even that is very anticlimactic. I mean, anti climactic is pretty much this movie.

But yeah, I like the I like a good slice of life movie. I do. But again, I need the characters to be at least enough to carry in the film. If Peter isn't very compelling, like even as this kind of milktoast guy, he reminds me a little bit of the main character from closely watched Trains, where he's not that active of a person. He more lets think it's very passive to him.

Yes, but even with that character, I mean, he's got a lot more personality and he does make some decisions and does do some stuff, whereas for Peter and this just is constantly put upon and he never really stands up for himself. No, and it's never really established. And here's you know, for me, my Barrier, I'm not familiar with Czechoslovakia in the sixties. I don't understand, you know, I can gather that the whole bricklayer thing is, you know, there's it seems to be that Peter is looking his nose down at the blue collar lifestyle that is tradition for men time. And you know, we do get a bit at the end of one of you know, the many sphere, you know, he mentions that Peter played guitar and things like that, and so you know, we get this idea that sure, Peter's probably somebody who wants a little more exotic of a life for himself, that he doesn't want to remain in this town and just be a bricklayer and just you know, become his father essentially.

But I don't know what Peter does want to do. I only learned that he played guitar from his father in the very last speech of the movie, like the film, yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't know anything about pe or what other ever, other than he's kind of a timid guy, but not even really so timid that it's a major problem in his life. Like there is a confrontation with him and the two bricklayer boys, but it's it goes absolutely nowhere, and at no point is there any kind of like actual feeling of tension or drama or whatever that that should be happening there instead we get a really weird scene of one of the boys shorts falling down. I guess that that's what happened.

It was really used by that saying as as to what the joke was, well, I mean, for a lot of the film's runtime, I honestly felt like I was waiting for Foreman to make a decision on something to do, because you get a lot of these scenes. I mean, you know, Jesse and I were texting back and forth while we were watching it, and you were maybe like ten twenty minutes behind me, and you were like, is this whole movie gonna be at this dance scene? And yeah, Like what's surprising to me is, again, this eighty five minute runtime film so comes in at a breezy hour and twenty five not even an hour and a half long. But there are scenes that feel like they take up a majority of what's happening on, Like they take up a majority of the runtime of the film, and yet nothing happens in those scenes memorable enough for me to remember that, oh, yeah, this is what happened at the dance.

At the dance, it seems like Peter is just walking in circles, interacting with people and ultimately to what end. It's like you mentioned, Jesse, we are never made aware as an audience. And it's nothing wrong with this in a way. There's plenty of films that we've all seen, the three of us, separately and together. I'm sure that our where the main character is a cipher and the audience is meant to be you know, he is the analog or they are the analog for us.

And it feels like that's what Foreman and Papashek are getting at with this. But why Yeah, but I got you got the most boring version of the character you could have to hell lock yourself too, right, Like he's not having and maybe that's the point, you know, maybe the point is that he's this listless boy that has maybe some big dreams in him but doesn't really have the you know, go get him attitude and the confidence to do it and da da da da da dad. And that's fine if that's what it is. I don't particularly care about that, you know, particular character struggle. Um, but that whole dance sequence, I mean, yeah, it's mostly people having really weird, cringey interactions with each other and this kid yelling helloing fire that was it was awful.

I don't understand what. And it's funny, Chris, because when we were talking about this movie yesterday and you put it on flex and I said, oh, it says it's a drama at a comedy. I don't know if that that sequence of like in that dance scene was supposed to be comedic in any way. But and you know, again cultural and language barriers, like what is funny in a nineteen sixty four Czechoslovakian movie is not necessarily going to be funny to me in twenty twenty three. If there was a purpose to any of it, I think it would be more excusable.

But it just when you just have character interactions between characters that we don't even understand their characterization, it all just rings hollow and fall falls flat. And you know what's interesting, Mike, You know you've kind of mentioned some of the other things that Foreman has worked on, and again I can't speak to this. I haven't seen those films, but the naturalistic style of shooting things is a Foreman thing, right, Like that's a thing that he leans on a lot, at least in these early films. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, not nonadays and right right, and it's it's not necessarily unique to him inside of the Check New Wave. You know, I did mention Van Passer he was doing kind of the same thing.

But then you compare him to other Check New Wave directors, and I'm not remembering a lot of others that do this kind of very floaty, freestyle kind of thing, you know, And I'm I guess I'm thinking probably of like mid to later sixties. It feels like they were really kind of getting their feet under them in the earlier sixties, you know, things like Pearls Are the Deep and those filmmakers that were involved with that. But yeah, it was it was interesting because he was still doing this u more free form stuff, you know, even in sixty seven. It's like that was his formula and then he had to change once he left the US. I mean, I haven't seen that.

And this is the thing. This should be Father Malone all Month as well, because I haven't seen any of these films until this time, so I don't know if Taking Off is going to be more in the Fireman's Ball Camp or more in the One Threw or the Cuckoo's Nest Camp. Well, what's interesting is this feels like a pale imitation to even someone like voytech Yasny, Like I was watching this thinking, oh, the Cassandra cat and all my good countrymen are so much more interesting than this, and even all my good countrymen again, like that movie's correct me if I'm wrong two and a half hours, Yeah, I think it was. Yeah right. I would rather rewatch that twice than watch this again, because by the end of this it feels just like an interesting experiment in you know, the old versus the young, expectations versus wants.

And that's fine, I think to your point, Jess, like we've seen this story before. Obviously this is not a new topic. But to tell it in such a way that they tell it here, it almost feels not that it's not important, but it's like they don't grasp what is important about that and how to showcase it to the audience. What is important about these clashes between old and young, new and old establishment versus you know, transgressivism? What are those?

What does that mean? And the movie just throws it at you but has no interest in actually getting into it, which again, Foreman is at the early stage of his stages of his career. So I can't fault him for that, but yeah, it's just it seems very water treading. I mean you've mentioned it already, Mike, but that's a very good way of putting it. Yeah, it's a real shame because I really wanted, you know, and this goes for all of these movies this month.

I really want them to be good. I want them to be compelling. So hopefully this is just a rocky start for us. You know, this is how early, like where does this fall in his career? Like how many movies did he make before?

This? Audition is forty seven minutes long? And then what was the other one? Um? I script these early titles because you know, I keep calling it a Blonde and love, but it's also loves a blonde.

I'm trying to think of audition and then the I mentioned it earlier, if they if they only ain't had them bands, that's a short as well. So this is really that was thirty three minutes, and I think they take that, like on the second run disk, they take that and Audition and have them both on the same disc. This is really his first feature. I wouldn't consider lanterna Magica because that was a documentary. It does feel like a student film by yeah, oh yeah, definitely feels very very referend like just in the minimal character well, and it's like, I mean, what's the easiest way to make a movie when you have a bunch of friends, right, Like, get your friends together, put the camera in front of them and see what happens.

I mean, see what comes of it. And I mean that entire scene in the dance Hall feels like that to a t because by the end of that scene, after it goes on for what feels like a half an hour, it's probably closer to about fifteen minutes, but by the end of it, you're just like, what what are we doing here? Guys? Like, what is the point of this? Because if you're just going to meander here right now like this, I don't know.

It's just shocking to me because, like you said, Jess, it feels very much like a filmmaker who is getting his legs beneath him and and not from a visuals I think this film is interesting to look at visually. It's shot again very naturalistically, a lot of natural lighting. It looks really nice, but that is not enough to care an hour and a half, right, which is a shame, you know. I mean, it is like, I don't think anybody who made this wanted to make a movie that feels kind of like a slice of life with no point. But that's like, when I was watching this, I was genuinely concerned what we were going to talk about, which does not happen very often when we do this.

Ever. Frankly, it's so shocking to me because I had this expectation of Milosh Foreman. And again, I think my expectation will be fulfilled at some point this month. I'm sure it will be, but I guess I should have tempered my expectations against the idea that this is check new wave and this is a director who is not operating at the same capacity that A Yasni is at this time. Foreman is ten years behind Yasni at least at this point.

Yeah, I won't disagree with you, And yeah, he does this much better when he goes on to his next film. I mean, Loves of a Blonde is still just a wonderful film. And what they do, you know, in Loves of a Blonde they have such a similar thing of having a party scene and you've got I think most of the female actresses in the movie are non professionals. I'm trying to remember if our main character was a professional not. And then you've got this group of soldiers there as well, and two of the three soldiers are non professional actors.

But then they take I think those two non professional actors and they put Vladimir Menzick right in the middle of them, who you know, I love and who is also in you know, he's been in pretty much every movie that we've talked about. How it was kind of disappointed he wasn't in this movie. I was like, where is that? Where is that funny looking guy? Come on, mister check film and himself, you know, And that was really smart because then he's the professional actor and he's able to bounce off of these unprofessional actors and it makes them better by him kind of like reacting to them and pushing them into different situations.

And you don't it doesn't feel like they have an anchor in Black Peter. It feels like it is just like, Okay, all of these people feel like they're non professional actors. I mean, his father, the guy that plays his father definitely started office a non professional, but he was in a lot of things and he is. To me, he's the best part of the whole movie. Whenever he shows up, I'm just like, Okay, this guy means business and you know, you should really pay attention to what he's doing.

He has a force to be reckoned with in a way that no other character in the is right like, he has a distinct point of view, He has a distinct idea of how he thinks things should be, and he has a way of getting that across to people that many people, myself included, would probably consider to be abrasive or not problematic, but lacking tact in a way that you often feel when an adult is talking down to you as as a kid. It right so that I mean, it comes across perfectly, but instead of it's feeling like he's speaking to me as the audience, he's speaking to someone who doesn't care, in the form of Peter, who is you know again, it's just like it's hard to get excited for him because he's just unexcitable completely.

This movie, actually, Mike reminded me of that Yosney film that we watched for your show that wasn't The Cassandra Cat and All My Good Countrymen. It was returned to Paradise Lost. It has that weird like floatiness and like things just happen and none of it really matters, Like there's no like with that movie, my biggest issue was there were no stakes. Everything was just like random people are doing random things. This feels so much like that, just like, oh, we came to America and we're going to get pizza and then we're gonna go and the kid got lost and it's like, what does any of this fucking matter?

Like? And that is I felt the same way here. It's just like, if you're trying to make some grand point, I don't think you're making it as successfully as you think you are. Yeah. I think it's interesting because I think Peter is probably one of the weakest parts of the movie, not just his character but also his acting.

Right, and then you get to like the guy that plays and I can't remember his name is Zadechnick, the Bricklayer. He's much more interesting. And then I think Foreman realized this because I want to say he comes back in Loves of a Blonde. It's like, yeah, he totally does. I just looked him up and yeah, he's the main He's the main male character in Loves of a Blonde and then the father comes back as well.

It's just like, if anything, I think the Bricklayer was much more interesting than this poor passive guy who can't stop shoplifters. And at the same time, you know, I want to say that there's some sort of commentary going on as far as him having to stop shoplifters, and you know, are people taking enough that they really need to stop that? Is there? There's always that right when it comes to shops and everything, And there's that thing now where it's like, hey, if you see somebody shoplifting, like you know, baby items or staples or these kind of things, just leave them be, you know, just obviously they're going through some tough times, so you don't have to be a dick about it. And I'm wondering, like, is Peter praying to not be a dick about it or is he just so completely powerless that he can't do anything.

I think the movie doesn't want to decide that, like I think that he like he doesn't. At no point does Peter ever make a decision on anything. He just literally just walks through the movie for most of it. And because we get nothing from this actor, visually, like on his face or anything when anybody's talking to him, it's hard to discern how he's actually feeling about the situation where it is it like, oh, I'm just so shy into amid that you know, I am this this weak person that my father and this weak man that my father thinks I am, or am I you know, making a statement by not stopping stopping these people We don't know because we get no indication from anyone in the movie. And the reason his father is the best character in the movies because he's the only character in the movie essentially like that's an actual character with you know, like Chris said, defined point of view, a you know, a sort of bravado in his performance as you know, kind of irritating and as old as it gets having to go through these speeches that he gives.

They are the only thing that like actually like speaks of any kind of passion in the movie. And I mean, look, we're telling a story. At the bare bones. This is a story about a you know, late teens, early twenty something boy and he does have a girlfriend or you know, a girl that he's involved with, and I don't care about any of it, Like even like they don't even go into any like she's in the movie but his. They're not romantic with each other.

There's no chemistry between the actors. I don't really understand the purpose that she serves in this movie whatsoever. No, but she's got a really cool haircut, you know, it's awesome. Yeah, I think it maybe speaks to this idea of like the emasculation of Peter, but not that, but like to what end, like right, well, that's what I you know, Chris and I discussed this earlier where I'm like, you know, this is because you know, I'm looking at it at twenty twenty three lens. It is a movie out toxic masculinity, but I don't think it realizes time talking about people of their time, and that's how you know the mindset was then and probably in that area.

Again, I don't know. I'm not familiar with nineteen sixties Slovacka, but I assume that it's much like any other nineteen sixties version of any other country where it was very you know, men need to work, women need to be at home right right, well, and it makes that very apparent in the movie when we see his mother, right who is essentially confined to the kitchen the entire film, so or I guess the house. What I don't know is that this movie is wanting us to, like, if it's trying to convince us that Peter does need to shape up and be a bricklayer, be a strong man and work with his hands and be, you know, a real man for this woman and all these things, or if it is trying to have a commentary on you know, that form of you know, overbearingness.

But I can't tell because the movie makes no declarative statement on anything. Well, and again, I don't think it's even interested in that, And that's I think for me, that's the problem with this movie is I'm not sure what it is interested in doing. If it's interested in telling this kind of you know, slice of life day in the life of an Eastern European convenience store clerk, then that is the shop boy. Yeah, that is the movie that we get. But that in and of itself is not enough to mine.

And I mean it could be, but you got to have a character. I mean, it's weird that the only character in the movie is not our main character, the character who the film's named for, which the name black Peter. It doesn't even have anything to do with the I mean the original title is Competer and Paula. So right, I don't even understand. Yeah, I was looking at I can't remember the name of the book, all the beautiful young men and women.

I think it's called It's a great book about check cinema, all from this writer's perspective. And he in Foreman were friends, and so I was like, oh, well he form and were friends. He's got to be writing about black Peter. And I was looking through the index. I was just like, no, no, black Peter.

This is really weird that I found this whole section about formants. I'm reading it. I was like, oh, Peter and Paula, just like the subtitles say, because my subtitle said Peter and Paula, not black Peter. And yeah, I mean for folks listening at home. I mean, black Peter was what Santa Claus's assistant, I think, And I'm not seeing any of that him from the Witch, Yeah, I mean from best I can tell black Yeah, like you mentioned Mike, black Peter is Santa's assistant often in blackface, I think, so, yeah, which ain't no, No, he's no was that nine Rouge or what's the what's the one that people all think is hilarious now around Christmas time, they're like crampas, crampas, Yeah, I celebrate crampas.

It's like, yeah, funny, it is not amused by your bullshit, folks. Yeah, sorry you Is that the same response you give to someone when they say Diehard is their favorite Christmas movie? Oh boy, yeah, you're so funny. What an edgy opinion you have? Please tell me I'm all about that that black Christmas movie?

Ha ha ha I. I don't you know. I don't know what the title has to do with anything. I don't think it has anything to do with anything, at least not the way the movie is now. But again, one could even go as far as to say, to your point, Chess, calling it Peter and Paula means what like that's not even part of the movie either, to be honest, though, I mean it makes a little more sense it is.

It's Peter and Paula, right, they are in as much as there's literally two characters in this movie named Peter. Watch them, man, they're about the scenery. Yeah, I mean I would say something that's vaguely similar as far as a young man who's trying to get laid, because it doesn't even feel like he's trying to get laid that much, no, which is really weird because you would think he would be as horned up as the bricklayer everybody get that, Yeah, like everybody else. He's trying to get with that blonde and then he fucks up because he goes after Paula, and it's like, okay, But I would say, you know, watch your mentals closely, watched trains instead, because then you actually have like a plot. There's a whole lot to it.

Yeah, I think you know, I mentioned Pearls are the Deep earlier, and I think every single one of those short sets in there is based off of I think it's trouble. Short stories. They're short stories. They have a plot, they have to have a beginning, middle, and end, and this one just meanders way too much. And what I ultimately don't understand is at the end of the day, he goes on to make like what three more Czechoslovakian films and then goes to America, and then the movies that he makes in the United States are as far removed from this as humanly possible.

Oh yeah, So is he a Check new Wave director or is he Milosh Foreman trying to force himself into the box of Check new Wave and not necessarily being able to hang with the big boys, as one might say. I feel like he, you know, I would consider this to be fairly avantcard. The way that it is plotless, the way that it is shot with these non professional actors. I feel like he was kind of doing what the new Wave was setting out to do, or at least other new wave movements. But then, you know, Chris, we've talked about Japanese New Wave a few years ago, much more structured.

You know, when I look at other Check New Wave films, they're much more structured. Like, of course, something like Daisies is super avant garde, but you've got that which is way out. They're you know, very surrealistic, and then you've got everything else that I can think of when it comes to the new Wave, at least off the top of my head, was pretty structured. They had really solid stories, and you know, I think, like you mentioned, Cassander Kat definitely has a very solid story. I think everything that I've ever talked about when it comes to Check new Wave other than Intimate Lighting has a very strong story, and I will say I ranted the same issue when I was trying to talk about Intimate Lighting that last year on Cheptember.

I was just like, what am I going to say about this movie? Thank god I had. I can't remember who both of my hosts were, but I know Spencer was one of them, and it's just like, thank god Spencer was there too, kind of like, oh well, I'm seeing this and I'm seeing I'm like, oh good, I'm glad you're a film professor, because you are. You're proving your metal today. Man, I was about to say, there's worse people to have on an episode about high cinema than a cinema professor, exactly, exactly.

Yeah, it was Matthew asked for Gear was my other co host on that who can also figure stuff out way better than I can. So yeah, I'm not even sure if there's something that we're missing here. I think the movie in and of itself is missing something on its own, because I don't I mean, it feels based on you know, I have not seen the other kind of movies that are in the same vein as this that he did after this, but judging like how you've described them and what they are, it kind of feels like this movie, being his first feature, was the work it out movie. Figure out how to make it, figure out how to make a movie, figure out what works in a movie, what doesn't work in a movie, and then redo it in your next one, you know, take you know, the things that you wanted to use in that movie or that you did like in that movie, and then put them in this next one.

So that makes more sense. It makes more sense to me in context of it being his first film and knowing what can after that that it does now just even more so just feel like I'm just I just need to make a movie to say I made a movie and know how to do it, and now I can owne my craft. Not everybody's early movies are going to be the original Evil Dead, you know, right right, and everybody can knock it out of the park first go. I would say this is a good blueprint for what he does with the rest of his check career, at least his early check career, because he does come back eventually and does do Amadeus in Czechoslovakia. I think he even shot Bragtime and Czechoslovakia as well, so you know, he comes back, he makes good on it, but yeah, it's definitely very different from uh, you know, like this early stuff is way different than what he's going to do later on, which is I mean again, like you know you mentioned obviously, I've never seen one floor of the Cuckoos Nest, I've never seen Amadeus hell, I've never even seen a man on the moon sol, I've seen nothing.

This is this? Is it? You know again? Like is this a disappointment? I can't can't really even say, because I didn't know what to expect in terms of it being a successful check new wave film.

I think it's a failure in being a one one worth remembering and revisiting because like I actually have been meaning to rewatch the Cassandra Cat and I have been meaning to rewatch All My Good Countrymen, two movies that you cannot those beautiful BLUs I know, and I'm on them too. There's this guy that sounds like me, and there's this guy that sounds like you doing commentary. What the actual fuck? But the thing is like those movies longer than this one, more complex than what they're getting at. But you know, I'm just gonna say this, and I know that this might sound like a stereotype, and in a lot of ways it totally is.

This is not as much of a movie movie as I was expecting it to be from people that were making movie movies at the time, as in a movie that has something to say about something that's going on, and check of Slovakia at the time, because day I'm near everybody else who made these movies, I'm sure had something to say. And I know voitech Yasney did in a movie that has a cat that can see fucking colors, which oh yeah, yes. And then All My Good Countrymen, which again is a slice of life movie in a lot of ways that this one is. It's just it has memorable characters, it has memorable set pieces, It has things that you can resonate with and remember, like the scene with m oh what's his first name is Mesnick in Ladimir Mesnick in All My Good Countrymen, The scene with the chicken and the feathers, like, oh my god, yeah, right, Like just fantastic camera work and just blocking and everything, and just the music and his performance is so great and that he gets that out of like three or four minutes.

This movie is an hour and twenty minutes long, and by the end of it, it's just like I rewatched it twice and all I could think to myself was, I'm glad it's not any longer than an hour and a half. H I was kind of shocked when it was an hour and a half, just because his previous movies were what did I say, fifteen minutes or half an hour and forty five minutes, and I was like, Oh, this will be over in seventy minutes tops. And then when it was an hour and a half, I was like, oh my god, really I had I had a difficult time making it through this one as well. Wow, is that common for you? I don't feel like that's not common for any of us, right, It's not common for me definitely with these movies, you know.

I mean even even if I just sit in the watch and I go, oh, I know that guy, Oh that guy. You know, there's always interesting performances, but this one was just a very There weren't that many interesting performances. Like I said, the Father I thought was good, and the Bricklayer, and I think the Bricklayer's boss, but that was about it. I was just like, Okay, I'm not really in the bricklayer obviously playing drunk. I usually have a hard time when people playing drunk.

He was being very accurate though, and you know, once he fell asleep, I was like, oh good, this is probably the last we're going to see of him in this movie. But it comes back, I am yeah, yeah, yeah. This was a rough one, Like it was pretty innocuously rough though. I feel like like an hour and hour and a half, you know, ends up just I don't know, I wanted more from this, and I just wanted so much more because I know what these movies can be, like Nikessander Cat, Like, yeah, what a while? These Check, Yeah, Jess, these Check movies are pretty nuts.

Like I've only seen a handful, but I'm sure Mike you've already spoken to some of them. But like some of these are really like high concept, Like this movie is shockingly low concept for a Check new wave film. I mean you mentioned Japanese new wave films, Mike, Like this is like this is like nothing compared to even that, Like it's just there's so little happening here. It's shocking that this is not just a documentary. If it were a documentary, maybe I could excuse use it like well, and it's interesting too because it's like I these early forming films really remind me of a lot of like early Macavyo films as well, and that's the Yugoslavian new wave that's going on.

But he also he always had two stories. He had this is more of the documentary side of it, and this is more the narrative side of it. And it was always interesting the way that he would combine those. This reminds me a little bit of man, Man is Not a Bird, But I would say that Man is Not a Bird is actually closer to Loves of a Blonde because it's much better done. But you also have that idea of the non professional actors as well.

But it's just like, come on, you're like, yeah, this, like I said, it was a rough draft and it was super rough around the edges, and man, oh man, it was. It was difficult. It's very difficulty. Does that ever work out for any director where they use non traditional actors? Oh yeah, yeah, like I said, his later stuff was great, right yeah, But like I just I can't, like I ask that question because it feels like this is a really good example of like how it fails spectacularly, almost to the point where it's like, why would anybody try this again?

But again it's successful for other people. I just think I see a vision of Milo's Foreman on the set of this movie, just looking harried, like like it's fine, like it or yeah right, whatever, like and I could totally see that, because again, there's parts of this that just feel like somebody couldn't figure out. Like the way this movie ends is to use the word abrupt might be a fucking understatement. It's so shockingly abrupt that there is no ending to this movie, like you mentioned, just it's a CHNTI climax. Yeah, yeah, somewhere Eric Andre and Tim and Eric are clapping their hands because they couldn't do an anti climax that good.

I mean, it's funny because one of my film professors, my Eastern European film professor who introduced me to all of these great Eastern European films, including The Check New Wave, he described Audition, the previous Foreman film, and he described it in such a beautiful way that I was just like, oh wow, that sounds great. And then when I sat down to watch Audition, I was just like, I'm having such a hard time watching this thing. And that's only forty five minutes long. The way he described it was okay. So foreman came in and there are all of these people, and he puts on this fake audition for a role and then shoots all of these non professional actors doing their audition and how nervous they are and all this stuff, and then he goes back.

He's got one person, He's got a confederate amongst all of these non professional actors who actually is his actress. So he shoots more with her behind the scenes. You know, he's got the other actresses there, the other women there, and then he will like follow her home and see her reaction to all this stuff or the stuff before the audition, and we follow her through that. And so suddenly you have a movie because you have all of these women doing this thing, but plus you have you know, your actress who is walking you through the real structure of it. And I was like, oh wow, that that's really kind of a cool thing.

Like I said, the description was so much better than the execution, and I just it feels, you know, he was doing this, he was trying it, and you know he was very economically sound to do this, because you're not paying these folks nearly as much, I think. But yeah, just kept missing the mark there, But he hits it with Loves Love On Loves of a Blonde, And I think I think we would all agree that the sign of any quality filmmaker is the ability to adapt and change and get better, get better with every movie. And you know, again, I have seen again none of these other Foreman films, but he does win an Academy Award at one point, So yeah, like this is not you know, like, well, whatever happened to that Meloche Foreman, Like, no, we know what happened to that Milosh Foreman, you know, right, we all know.

So like I don't I don't think any of us need to have any sort of like, oh right, you know that that movie that they that they totally didn't win all these awards for. So it's just one of those things where it's, yeah, like like you said, with your expectations of audition, like if someone explained this movie to me and then I watched it the way they explain it is going to obviously be a complete fallacy because if you were to like be like, hey, describe this movie to me, I'd be like, it's a story about a kid who doesn't know what he wants in life, and we spend a day with him. That already sounds quite interesting than the movie that we actually get, so right, Yeah, it's I haven't seen very many movies like this one, and I'm not saying I don't want to see more of them, but it's it's interesting to see where a filmmaker starts, and that is probably the best thing that you can get from this is an appreciation of where someone like Foreman who ends up having such a storied career, you can see even now, like, even as kind of not much of a movie as this is, we we've given it plenty of compliments.

It's a nice looking movie. It's well shot, it's well lit. It's just, you know, it's not a story, right right, That's a small component. It's a big component, but it is something that's fixable. I mean, if you're a ship director and you don't have an eye for it and you just can't figure out what you're doing, that can't fix that.

Foreman knows what he wants. It's just execution leaves a little bit to be desired, which again, clearly that ends up not being the case moving forward, So that's for me. I mean, yeah, is this disappointing, Sure, But at the same time it fills me with a level of excitement to see where he goes from here, because, like you mentioned, Mike, you and I aren't talking about Amadeus, but the brend of the show and writer on strike, mister Richard HadAM wanted to do Amadeus. So him and I are going to do Amadeus at some point this month, which I'm excited for because again, I know how important that movie is is for Foreman's career at least, you know, visibly for people who are just watching movies, not going to every single movie that they can catch.

I mean every I feel like everybody saw Amadeus, like everybody knows what that is, so you know, like that comparatively to Black Peter, Yeah, that's sleep we're talking. We're talking about a mile of distance or more so. Well, and you really do owe it to yourself to watch Cuckus Nests as well. I want to, Yeah, I want that would be my choice. I you know, I'm glad you didn't pick it, Mike, because it would be the safe choice but you know, you know it's on brand to not pick it.

Yeah, I've never been the one for the safe choice. No fuck, no me either, Like honestly, I mean, we can watch Cuckoo's Nest, but I'm sure it'll be like, oh, this was a good movie. Yeah, let's expound on how good it was. Yeah, yes, it's good. Let us tell let me tell you how good it is, which is like this is like it wasn't bad.

I just don't know what you want. What do you want from me? Like, what do you It was neither good nor bad? It just purely exists. Yeah, so so so, Jess, I'll give you the floor.

First final thoughts on Black Peter aka Peter and Paula. I think you should just watch Ama Davis and one Blue Cookers Now, Mike, what about you? H Yeah, interesting start. Wish it was better, but he definitely kicks it up a notch going forward. So I'm glad that I finally saw this one.

Um. Won't be revisiting it again anytime soon, but glad to have done it. You're a completionist, right, If you're a melosh form and completionist, I think that this has to be in your viewing catalog. I think if you're probably into check new wave, this has to be in your viewing catalog. But yeah, nobody is covering Black Peter with any sort of what's the word immediate deal.

Yeah, like, no, you're not hearing anybody talking about this film. Um, it's a is it available on any is it a keynoe on anything? It's I think Criterion put it out actually, and then it is or it was available on their channel, so as well as a ton of other new wave films at least a few months ago, they had a whole spotlight. I don't know how Criterion channel works these days, but yeah, they had some great films out there, and I would recommend that you check out everyone other than this one. I mean, I agree, you know, realistically, go check out the Blue Rays for the Cassandra cat and all my good Countrymen.

Yes, Mike and I are on them, so bias is biased, but those are better movies, and at least for me and what I can tell and what I have interpreted and researched through the things that you've given me and preparing for your episodes and commentaries, those are more indicative of what one would expect from Check New Wave. This is if you watch this and this is your first Check New Wave film, you will be disappointed and you will probably ask yourself what is all the fus about? That's a shame. But at the same time, like you said, Mike, this is a starting place. This is not where we end up this month.

So you know we end up much, we end up much further from this. So on the next Culture Cast for Mike White May, we're going to be taking a look at taking off. Yeah, a lot of taking you take, take, take, what do you ever give? Yeah, And we are going to be joined once again by Mike and a newcomer to the show. But if you've listened to the Projection Booth before, you have heard Bill Ackerman over there plenty of Tom.

That guy. I don't even know him. I haven't ever met him, Bill, I don't know. He's a really, very very nice person. I've heard, I've heard I've heard nothing but good things.

So we'll be joined on that episode, like I said, by Mike and Bill Ackerman. So until then, Jess, where can people find you if they were looking to hunt you down on the internet. Ah, you can find me on Instagram at writer Jeff buyed um been. There are plenty of other places to find me through there. I'm glad that you added the on the internet because at first I thought you were encouraging people to just down do not.

I will take I will take your ass out well, Mike speak, speaking of that, where could people pursue you if they were looking for you on the internet, if they were coming after me, they should go to Weirdingwaymedia dot com, where you can find this show, as well as pretty much everything else that we work on. It's a good source for the good stuff, for the stuff. It's a good source for the stuff, this stuff, you know what stuff we're talking about. Yeah. No, Like Mike said, Weirdingwaymedia dot com is where you can go to find Mike show, the Projection Booth, this show that you're listening to now, Bollywood Cinema Club, a show that I do all about Indian cinema, and hey, let's throw a random show out there just for shits and giggles.

Uh. Susan Lambert had him and Susan or the Susan Lambert had him and Sharon Johnson's eighties TV Ladies, which is hosted by Yeah Richard Adam's wife, Susan who. If you think Richard is a good talker, folks, you have not heard eighties TV ladies. Would you should go check out over Weirdingwaymedia dot com. It's for this show, culturecast dot com, Patreon dot com.

I've set it before, I'll say it again. I'll repeat it one more time. You want to give money Patreon? If not like, rate and review the show wherever you get it, more than likely iTunes. Mike, thank you so much for joining me.

You will you will be back. You have been invited back once again. Oh sure, Jess, you will be back again at some point. But thank you both for joining me obviously, and Mike for programming the month as well, so as always, we'll catch both on the next episode.