Halloween (2007) — "Behind these eyes one finds only blackness, the absence of light. These are the eyes of a psychopath."

We're in Wayne Media. Death has come to your little town. The story you thought you knew will reveal secrets you can't imagine. You haven't said a word for 15 years. And unleash a twist.

Is he gone? You'll never forget. Michael, I failed you. On August 31st, experience a legendary tale as it's never been told. Halloween.

Rated R. In theaters everywhere August 31st. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the CultureCast. I'm your host, Chris Stashew, and I'm joined by my good friend, someone that you're going to get to know a lot better, and hopefully by the end of this show, you'll be listening to his show in addition to mine. His name is Brian Renfro.

He has been hosting Movie Meltdown for a very long time, a lot longer than I've been podcasting, longer than Mike's been podcasting, which is to say... more than 12 years brian how long have you been podcasting for. Uh it's painful really um technically now i think we're still on the 17th year but we're getting close and as of december it will roll over to 18 years. So when brian reached out to mike and i wanting to see if he was uh a candidate for joining Weirding Way Media, we jumped at the opportunity to have Brian join us over at the network where we and our friends get to put together audio diversions for you to listen to, to take your mind off the world surrounding you. And Brian has been doing that even longer than I have, which is to say he's been fighting the good fight longer than Well, most people who've been podcasting.

Brian, at one point, was having to explain to people what podcasting was. I mean, I did too, but it seems like you were probably doing it for much longer than I was. I mean, they just didn't have a clue. In fact, after a while, I just realized they kind of didn't care. So like I just abandoned halfway into the explanation.

I'm like, well, it's like a, it's like a radio show and it's on the internet and it's like, and you'd go into it and your, their eyes would glaze over and they'd start looking around the room and you'd be like. Oh, already checked out. Great. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm like, don't worry about it. Just, just say the things you need to say now. Just so I would still record people, but they didn't know where it was going. Essentially. That's fair.

Yeah. I remember, I remember back in the early days of the show, we had a lot of, What is this for? Oh, is this for for a podcast or radio show? And I was like, yeah, it's fine. Whatever.

Whatever you want to call it. Whatever process is giving me. Yeah, that's all I care about. Yeah. And usually they don't care, especially if it's people that do it regularly.

They're just like, what's this for? And then they'll be like, all right, whatever. Like they just shrug it off and they roll along, which is really that's all we want. Anyway, we just want to talk. Well, that's the other thing about kind of like you've alluded to already.

The world of podcasting has changed a fair amount, but in a lot of ways, it's pretty much stayed the same. A lot of people sit and talk in movies trying to convince the people who make the movies to take us seriously, to talk about the movies with us. And that's still the that's still the kind of uphill battle even now as someone who's been part of a podcast network for decades. going on seven years now. Yeah. I mean, I think I don't have as much issue with the people making the movies as much as the people in between there.

The PR people, the press relations people, the contacts along the way, they're the ones that are like, oh, yeah, your people that you have to talk to in between here and there are just like, oh, podcasts. So Getting past them is your real hurdle. And then after that, once you're talking to people, they're usually pretty cool. It should not surprise anyone to learn that most PR people are really only interested in doing something for their client if there is money to be made. And for the most part, you're not making money doing podcasts.

We're not making money doing podcasts. Yeah, really. There's the problem. So Brian will be joining the network next Wednesday. His show will be joining the network on the 16th.

Movie Meltdown will have all of its episodes available and any new episode going forward available on weirdingwaymedia.com. Brian and I are going to be working on a podcast in the future together. We don't know what it is, but we will be doing something in a more extended capacity but i figured if uh you know if given the opportunity to we'll talk about anything just the two of us for this to be kind of your opportunity a guest on my show uh which you know i've been doing this for like i alluded to 12 years now since 2014 I have seen a lot of movies, as have you. I've talked about a lot of movies and I've watched more movies than I probably haven't talked about. I watch a lot of movies, so it's like I'm just watching movies for the podcast.

And we sat and kind of racked our brains for a while about what it was we could talk about for this episode and the next episode to kind of tie them together. as a little kind of one-two punch to open your show coming onto the network. And for whatever reason, we landed on, and by we, I mean, I think it was primarily myself. I was like, get out what would be fun to talk about. Yeah, fun in quotes. I think it was mostly you, but I knew going in, I'm like, well.

I mean, I know I'm going. To have a lot to say. So what these movies are before you watch them, they have a reputation. Rob Zombie films have a reputation. That they do.

So yes, we landed on the original. Rob Zombie Halloween. I have to put the Rob Zombie in there, not the original Halloween. The original Rob Zombie Halloween before we get back to part two, you know, somewhere in the future there. But...

I feel like first. Before we get into the movie as it is, I should probably throw out a basic apology to Rob Zombie fans. I've realized many times over the years now, and I've said it, it's actually frustrating because... what I've said on my show many times is it's a shame because I think Rob and I have such similar tastes. Everything that he likes, I like. So it's really difficult when he like takes all his influence and creativity and put something together.

And it so rubs me the wrong way, which it does more often than not. I've watched a lot of his movies over the years and like Most of the time, I feel like I end up having problems with them and I don't want to. So that's the thing. I'm trying to at least throw it out there that I normally try to go into. Most movies with an open mind.

I try to just assess it for what it is and not bring too much. We all kind of bring baggage to the. To the table when we get there. But still, you're just trying to like, at least normally for somebody like us, we're trying to come at it with an open mind and trying to give a realistic take of what it is we think of this movie. And technically I've seen this one, but not since maybe the theater, if not definitely right when it came out on video after that.

So I was also trying to come at it with, you know, fresh eyes, a new opinion, like just sort of come in open and let myself experience it as it is now, because, you know, you give it 10, 12. Years, you're a whole new person, essentially. So you might totally feel different about a movie. So I'm just all of that throwing out there that I'm trying to look at this as open minded as I can. And I'm still going to have some problems with it.

But I'm just I'm not against Rob Zombie per se. I just want him to make a good movie. Jesus. There, that all having been said. Right.

I I have talked about some Rob Zombie stuff before. I want to say on Mark Begley's show, Wake Up Heavy, which you can find on weirdingwaymedia.com. We talked about House of a Thousand Corpses and Devil's Rejects. I want to say, which I mean, again, talk about two films that like you've already alluded to, exist to rub people the wrong way. I think for me, the reason, you know, before we kind of get into the movie proper, the reason I wanted to talk about this movie is this is a movie that the last couple of times I watched it, I have not enjoyed it.

I think you've already alluded to the fact that like, oh, well, you know. Sorry ahead of time to Rob Zombie fans. It's like, I don't know if Rob Zombie fans care. I mean, I'm not sure Rob Zombie cares that we don't like this movie because at the end of the day, and this is really kind of my kind of opening kind of thesis for this movie. And I think for Rob Zombie in general is exploitation films aren't meant to be for everyone.

And Rob Zombie's flavor of exploitation is. I see what it is. I think you see what it is. And I'm not saying I do or don't vibe with it. It's just I this is not the flavor of ice cream I go and eat all the time.

And this is the flavor of ice cream that some people eat all the time without like with wanton abandon. Like they just, this is all the, I mean, I know, you know, people just like I do that are horror bros and all they do is watch horror movies and that's it. And they watch every single horror movie and you know, I'm, you know, art, the clown is my favorite thing and gore this and gore that I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but those people don't care either. If you don't vibe with those movies. And I think my point is like, I think, you know, It's weird to have a Halloween movie that's an exploitation version of Halloween.

But I think now in the day and age we live in, and I think that this is hilarious in a lot of ways, similar to the conversation you and I had offline about the Star Wars prequels, at least that these movies are different and that's why i liked the the the third david gordon green movie is because it is markedly different than those first two because those first two are just remakes of the original halloween the second one i don't know that the second one's much of. Anything the second one is just the first one's a remake The second one is without a doubt one of the worst horror movies I've ever seen because it is such a waste of time. It's a waste of the audience's time. It's just dragging its feet for like two hours.

And then at the end, they don't kill Michael. But why? But they just let him walk away. The movie is insulting. And again, it's one of those things where they announced that a third one was coming out before the second one was done.

It's like, Okay, so you robbed any stakes that this movie could have, period. We know our main leads. We got at least two leads that are going to be in the next movie. It's like we know these two aren't going anywhere until the finale. Right.

What can we do to kill time for. This movie in the middle here is essentially what that whole thing felt like. Or kill off two thirds of the cast of the movie, but two thirds of the cast that were introduced in the movie. So yeah, all these people are introduced just to stranger things die in the same movie. Like it's, I don't know.

I will say, like I said, in terms of just this opening kind of, you know, not apology, but in a way like opening preamble. Yeah. I think that Rob Zombie as a director makes a lot of interesting choices and I don't necessarily vibe with all of them, but the ones that I do vibe with, I'm a fan of. However, the ones that I don't vibe with are, they're just missteps, but they're missteps that are such specific choices that he's making that I'm just like, man, I get it. Like it's a stylistic choice or it's a specific choice that you're making, but I don't vibe with it.

So on that note, let's talk about 2007's Halloween. So the film is written and directed by one Robert Zombie. It's based on this other film called Halloween. I know, the same title even. It's almost like we're going to have to have another one of those come out.

It's confusing. I know, right? The film stars Malcolm McDowell, Sherry Moon Zombie, Tyler Maine, Scout Taylor Compton, Brad Dorff, Daniel Harris, William Forsythe, And Dag Ferk, otherwise known as Young Michael Myers, who I think is given the unenviable task of playing another child version of a murderer in the mid-2000s, a la, speaking of Star Wars prequels. Yeah. But, you know, just to speak to kind of why I wanted to talk about this movie, it's because of the things that this movie does that are so different from the other movies, like actually giving Michael Myers a pretty sad backstory.

Like, hey, he was a kid who was abused and ignored and misunderstood. And then he killed everybody. We don't know why, but he did it. And it's like, well, that's a lot more believable. And I think he was closer to like real life than what we get in that original Halloween movie.

I think this movie, what makes this movie so interesting is this movie is very uncomfortable, but I think on this rewatch, it's the right kind of uncomfortable for me. Maybe the first time I saw it, there were things I didn't resonate with, but that this is like a white trash kid from a poor upbringing who is is his mom is a stripper. His stepdad is just the most piece of shit. William Forsythe, you can think of. And you've, yeah, like again, like I'm not saying to say like you, you feel for this kid, but like there is some empathy that Rob Zombie is able to, get from the audience towards the young Michael Myers character.

And I don't think it's unearned. Like, I think it's well-earned by Rob Zombie. It's just, that's an uncomfortable statement that you're, you know, empathizing with a child who ends up murdering everybody in the film. Like, literally. Other than, like, maybe two people.

Most everybody gets... the fucking shit knocked out of them in this movie because it's a brutal rob zombie thing so there's all this exploitation and over the top gore and just it's it's it's gratuitous but you know exploitation films are i think by definition gratuitous so i'm gonna kick it to you brian i am so curious this is your first uh episode of the culture cast what did you think of rob zombies or just Halloween, but we got to call it Rob Zombie's Halloween because John Carpenter's Halloween is a thing and I guess David Gordon Green's Halloween is a thing. So this is Rob Zombie's Halloween. You do have to specify. All right, guys. I love the times we live in.

The most perfect of dystopian times. Since I was thinking maybe this should be later, but since you've already kind of thrown it out there, maybe I'll start. With the overall view of it here. Because I'm kind of coming at it from an entirely opposite direction of you. That's perfectly fine.

That's why we're here, man. Definitely. So, but that's the thing. Like I, I, I appreciate what he wanted to do because I do feel like the second half of this movie is just rehash. Like it's just stuff we've seen with a.

Slightly different lens, but even that not much, like once you get there, it's pretty close to the same type of thing. Just a little more brutal here and there a little more just horrendous in the dialogue, but we'll get to that later. But I feel like the, the overall issue I have with it is it, It is trying to take that different examination or trying to re-examine the whole idea of the killer at hand, more or less. So, like, is it possible to do a more realistic examination of why a kid goes from a seemingly normal person to a horrible killer? Yeah, I think it is something you can do.

But I don't know. Number one, I don't know that Halloween... in the franchise thereof is the place to do it. Really? Like, I feel like it, Chris Nolan, right? It's like, I'm going to do something.

It's, it's not elevated horror, but it's as much elevated as Rob zombie can get. It's just hilarious because I don't think anyone would ever say Rob zombies, elevated horror. But watch this movie and tell me that that's not what this movie is going for. Like, it's imminently apparent for the first half of this goddamn movie what this movie is going for. Because, by the way, this is a two hour long Halloween movie.

Yeah. Two hours. That's because the first half of the movie takes place in Michael Myers is a child land. Like. Like literally he shows up as an adult only 50 minutes into the movie.

And that's what that's what I think is weird with this. Yes, because we it would be different if I didn't feel like it does it justice. And we just sort of skip over that part. If we just see him like murder his sister and then we jump to the you know, he's in the asylum. He's a big dude.

But we spend a long time with Loomis and the kids sitting there and talking. And we take all these different like all these all these weird artsy shots of him, like just black and white shots of the kid looking weird, standing up against the wall and trying on different masks and all these different like things to sort of try to look like, oh, we're we're taking a look at this kid and what's leading to this. But we don't ever actually do that. So in the end, it's like we spend all this time going through this process in quotes. But in the end, like we also just still kind of make that jump.

It's still like he's he's a normal kid who seems to be totally detached from the fact that he murdered half the people in his life and then like doesn't even seem to know what happened. And then like he gets the point. He's getting less chatty. And the next thing you know, he's just catatonic. So it's like there's no progression.

There's no figuring it out. We get some weird, awkward voiceover from Malcolm McDowell that's trying to be like, oh, with the mask, he's hiding from himself. And like we have these like. Attempting to throw a little psychobabble in there to pretend like we're getting somewhere but like we never really address the why and how and what would lead you to go from this you know yes you had a screwed up childhood i'll give you that but like it doesn't mean it's a pass to murder everyone in your vicinity so like i don't know i if you were going to dig into the psyche of this kid and really try to address that go ahead and do it again i don't know that this cheesy Halloween movie is the place to do it, but you can certainly make the, and there are like horror films, like weird indie films out there that are taking more of a realistic look at the how and the why of it all.

But it's weird that we devote as much time as we do to that approach in this movie and then completely don't do it. We just jumped to the, the. 15 years later, And then he's just catatonic dude going around murdering everybody. And like that, what do we accomplish? How did we get here?

And why did we get here? And now I've already seen this movie in 1978. So like, what are we doing? Well, and so that's the thing that I would, you know, kind of level a lot of my then criticism against this movie is exactly what you have gotten at, which is, you know, I can give the film praise for doing, you know, oh, it's really kind of, you know, leaning into Michael Myers is this fucked up kid and how terrible is that? And all these things, but then it abandons it once he becomes an adult, like completely.

And I don't understand why, because like you said, if you're going to spend all this time setting it up, why would you just reject it? Once we've spent literally 45 minutes giving the audience a reason to feel somewhat sympathetic for, for Michael Myers. And, Again, it's hard to feel empathetic for a character who murders people, but the film does its darndest in the first 45 minutes to get us there, and then it abandons it completely. There's definitely several moments where it completely leans into it and is like, look, you know, this kid's kind of a good kid in this moment, in this one little moment, like he's got redeemable value right here. And then you get to even... point in the middle there where it's like, well, now he's kind of inadvertently doing something good.

Are we supposed to be rooting for him now? Like, so we can get to that later, too. That's traumatizing. But I don't know. Like, I feel like that's so much of the problem is that and kind of my main issue with this going in originally, like when I very first saw this and I saw they're doing this crazy backstory and look, we need to find out that he's a trashy kid and he had a hard life and i'm like okay but it's a very star wars fan to miss yeah and and in a way and i don't i don't normally have an issue with that like i'm fine with you know character development and like writing an interesting backstory with most movies that's What I want.

But in specifically in Halloween, the whole reason that I loved that so much as a kid, the 78, the John Garberner version is the fact that. We don't know anything like there isn't anything because he is essentially the boogeyman. He represents the boogeyman. He is almost just the entity of Halloween, more or less, and is, you know, pure evil. If you want to go by the Loomis quotes and.

Go with all that. But really, the mystery of it, the not knowing what he is and not knowing is he just. A supernatural thing that shows up and just will murder you on Halloween night because like there's a very sort of, you know, October vibe that kicks in in that first movie. And a lot of it just brings the mystery of who and what this killer is with it. And like you're just letting go of all of that when you start pinning down these specifics and giving him a backstory and making him a character, not just an ideal character.

Of, you know, the evil that takes place at Halloween. Would you say evil dies tonight? I would in a couple of movies from now. And I would say it over and over and over and over. And then, by the way, it doesn't.

Everyone else in the cast dies that night. Evil goes on just fine and goes. To live in a sewer. I know, which... And, you know, that's the funny thing, like, you know, not to ruin those movies, because, again, like I think that those movies have their own problems.

But these movies do have that same issue that I had with that first David Gordon Green movie, because, you know, we are going to talk about the second one of these, which is markedly different from any of these. Very different. And I feel like I as I remember it, I purposely haven't rewatched it yet. But I'm like, as we revisit it, I want to see how I feel, because I remember at the time feeling like. very different about the second one than I did this first one. So I'm kind of curious to see what revisiting that one will bring.

Well, and that's the thing. I've seen the second one more than I've seen the first one. So this is the one of the two that I have not seen that much. So it was the one that I was having to revisit because I liked the second one a fair amount other than a couple things that we'll talk about I kind of landed on that too, as I originally saw it. So again, I'm interested to see what.

My problem with this one is the problem that I think I have with that same Halloween David Gordon Green movie, which is I don't care about the Laurie Strode character. And I never really have. To your point about what Michael Myers was supposed to be, Michael Myers was supposed to be, and just the film series alone was supposed to be an anthology series. Yeah. Yeah.

It was not supposed to be like every movie is Michael Myers. And yet, obviously, you know, money wills out in the end. Stranger Things got a season two. True Detective got a season two and three. All these things exist because money is very easy to make when there's an IP connected.

And so I understand why we get this movie as a direct remake of the 1978 film. But I really wish, and this is going to sound even crazier, I wish Rob Zombie had just done something else with Michael Myers, even more different than this. Yeah, that's what I would like, really. And to your Laurie thing, that's again, going back to the carpenter version. I think it's the same thing.

It's not like you were supposed to be like so committed to this Laurie character. I think once again, she's an ideal. She just represents she's the innocent one, even of the bunch of girls. And she is meant to be the final girl, even if we weren't using that terminology yet. Like she was meant to be the opposite of the evil that is Michael Myers but she wasn't like a super deep character she really didn't have she she fought a little more than the others she lasted longer than the others and that's why we as horror fans were like yeah I like her but like you weren't attached to her personality she didn't have that much personality in the first movie don't get me wrong I think she does a terrific performance acting.

Wise, but she's no Nancy from, but. She's not, I mean, she's not even, she's not, she's not even Sydney Prescott. You know, it's like Sydney has a lot more character to her than the original. Yeah. It's like then the original version of, of what Laurie Strode has.

Like she's just a high school kid. Like she's just meant to be an innocent high school kid that gets caught up in this. And like, She wasn't meant to be a family member or even no matter what they tell you, like she wasn't meant to be tied to this crazy ongoing. Saga for the rest of her life as she lives in a bunker 30, 40 years down the road. Like.

She just she was just a girl. This is he randomly came across her, whether that happens in this movie or not. And then he just killed all her friends. And like, this is what happened on Halloween night. And now she's got a horrible story to tell later.

So that's pretty much all she was supposed to be. And that brings me to my first question about this with the kind of changing of the backstory. How do you feel about them embracing what would later be rejected by the kind of the next Halloween remake, which is Laurie and Michael are not related? I mean, this movie leans into it like hard. It's it's it is a plot point through this film and the next film.

It's kind of like a mist. I mean, I would say it's like a mystery, but a mystery in the sense of like they show you Chekhov's baby in the first 10 minutes of this movie. Like, who could that be? Like, I wonder. I really don't wonder.

There's like there's no one. I kind of forgot about that part, too. Like they're sitting there like, oh, look, he's got another kid. kid or some other random sibling i totally into that i forgot about it all yeah because it got it got so removed and i haven't watched this in so long i was just like oh look another kid and it's like he usually doesn't murder babies so that kid's probably okay right like it really was later in the movie was like oh yeah i forgot that's the whole thing i'd put that out of my mind probably on purpose but. Yeah i mean that's that's the thing is they couldn't even make up their mind. Like, it constantly went back and forth.

It just ping-ponged as to, like, by the first movie, they have nothing to do with each other. By the second movie, because Carpenter just was grasping at straws and like, I don't know, I gotta come up with some reason he keeps following this stupid girl around. Those are literally his words as to writing the second movie. He's just like, I don't really care, like, whatever. I'm not holding a cigarette right now.

But otherwise, it's pretty accurate to what he was thinking. So... Right. He, yeah, I mean, he just sort of threw that in there because he needed to come up with some other part of a plot for a movie he didn't even want to direct by then. So then we know three is its own weird thing.

By four, they're changing their mind. They come back later. I don't even, where did they land on H2O? I don't even remember. Yeah, I think they're related.

I think they're related still. They don't retcon it until, they don't retcon it until the David Gordon Green movies where they retcon it immediately and they even have like a, I thought they were brother and sister. No, that's just what someone on the internet said. They literally have one of those like Ghostbusters 2016. They blame us.

Yeah, Ghostbusters 2016 lines where it's like, get it? It's the nerds who are the problem. And it's like, We're the ones sitting here giving you... It's you! You people are the ones that came up with that dumb story.

It's not our fault. You guys wrote that shit in the fucking second Halloween movie. That's on you guys, 100%. That's on John Carpenter, just not caring. It makes for a great visual, right?

The. the, the tombstone of Judith Myers in the bed and makes her a. Great visual, but that's about it. And it still works in the first movie. It's just, it's his family name. It's Myers.

It's his, you know, he killed his sister. She's a Myers. Like all of the Myers stuff still works. It doesn't have to have anything to do with Lori also being a Myers. So like, It just needs to be Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter or all these people.

She's the chosen one. I know. It's so obnoxious. Only Laurie can save the universe with her magical final girl powers. I know.

It doesn't work. It doesn't work here in this movie. It doesn't work in the rebooted Halloween either with Jamie Lee Curtis because the final girl should be allowed to die or walk away. It doesn't have to be this like, We're going to go around in circles in perpetuity. Then she's not the final girl.

She's like the always girl. And that's a completely different girl. Yeah. That's a, that's a completely different thing. And that's why, like, I'm so irritated with the Halloween kind of franchise getting hung up on Laurie Strode.

Like I've, I know that they've talked about this to like, Oh, we're bringing Halloween back. It's like, well, duh, we know like, but it's not going to have Laurie. Hopefully, hopefully it'll just be rebooted completely. Just do something with Michael Myers and a completely other setup. You know what?

Make it so that you don't know it's Michael Myers and that's who the killer is until the end of the movie. Kind of like Split, where it's just a complete blind side at the end of the movie. I mean, I don't know. At this point, Michael Myers is similarly to Spider-Man. I don't need to see a Michael Myers origin story.

Yeah, we don't need the second half of this movie. Right, yeah. Or to be what I was going to say. Or the first half of it. I was saying like.

An origin story in the first or second half of this movie, because I think either, I think either parts of these movies could be classified as an origin story because the original movie has an origin story. It's just very abbreviated. I mean, it's what, like two or three minutes at the beginning of that movie and that's it. And that's why that works so well to me. Cause I was like, we, we get all of this nonsense going on through this entire movie and, Just especially like that whole intro.

It's like we're an hour in before we kick into the reboot part of it for the remaking of the thing we've already seen. But I'm like it. We still aren't anywhere different than where we are in the first three minutes of, you know, watching him POV through a mask and stabbed his sister. And we land at that same spot almost like before the credits hit. We've already gotten the backstory that we. killed an hour in this movie doing the exact same thing because we don't end up anywhere any different.

So I do because you brought up. Go for it. Go for it. Go for it. Go for it.

Well, I was just because you brought up the Laurie part of it. I did want to address what I think is maybe the weirdest part of this movie that I kind of totally forgot about until the rewatch was how does he know she's his sister? Boy, I don't, I have no earthly idea. I feel like they've backwards shoved in excuses for others. Like we've sort of in the second one, give a dumb reason.

I feel like in the new last trilogy, they came up with a weird retcon kind of a reason, but it's. Like here, they don't even bother to give you a stupid answer. And I looked My. Favorite was, and I know you like some AI, so I just asked the Googles. I was like, I asked them that question.

I like the answer I got because it's as ridiculous as the actual movie. So, according to what it says, Michael recognized her by some innate family instinct rather than a logical or explained plot deduction. Oh, cool. So it's literally Rob Zombie just going, he consents her because he's his sister. Like, she's his sister.

But yeah, another part says, because they share a deep bonded childhood past before he was institutionalized. I was like, more realistic. They don't even. Yeah. I was like, the more realistic one I thought of, because I was like, well, he's very animal-like.

Maybe he can just smell it. He can just sense his kind. A pheromone or something. Yeah, the smell. And then I went back and watched.

I was like, he smells the envelope when she shoves it through the stupid mail slot. I was like, are they really... They don't hit you over the head with it, but is that literally the way that he does? I mean, I would be okay with that being the answer. I mean, it's better than the just.

Magical radar he has that he's like, I'm pretty sure my sister's around here somewhere. So. Out there with Skylar Gazondo, a very young Skylar Gazondo, by the way. Who is actually good in this movie. That's one of the few things.

I was like, you know, for kid actor, this kid's pretty entertaining, I gotta say. Some kids are just annoying. Was he playing the role that Paul Rudd would end up playing? Paul Rudd and Anthony Michael Hall, and take your pick, everybody wants to be Tommy. Wasn't he the one that was supposed to be Paul Rudd in the David Gordon Green sequel, and then Anthony Michael Hall took over.

And he just gets murdered. Yeah, a weird handoff of that baton to Legan. or anthony michael hall something like that whatever like he's recognizable too good enough i. Guess i well it's a shame because again it's hard to not talk about all the other halloween movies when you talk about halloween because there's so many of these movies at this point but i'm just so shocked at i guess at this point halloween is the franchise that has willed out over all the other ones in terms of like like the ability to reboot itself be successful and make money nightmare on elm street couldn't still waiting for that nightmare on elm street reboot friday the 13th same thing well that's. The thing this one is the most convoluted like this is the one literally like go online and do that like red yarn theory of how the timelines work because it's insane where at least the other ones are just sequel sequel sequel attempt at a reboot didn't work but like this like this one has like One and two go together.

Three's in its own crazy ass universe. Four and five are kind of their own weird thing. Sometimes they're part of the timeline. Sometimes they're not. Depends on which timeline you're talking about.

Then we already get an attempt at a reboot. We bring Lori back. Then we kill her off again in the next one. Then we pretend like that didn't happen and we come back for another weird offshoot thing that didn't work. Then we reboot with these, which is its own crazy world.

Then these didn't work out that well. And to clarify, there was supposed to be a third one of these. So we are only getting to talk about two, not because there were only supposed to be two. There was supposed to be a third. That third movie is the David Gordon Green reboot.

Well, did you hear how and why he got out of doing a third movie? Go ahead and tell our lovely audience. Because the real person we have to blame for this insanity isn't even Rob Zombie. It's Bob Weinstein. Boy, everybody's favorite.

I love when that name gets thrown in. Yeah. When that rolled up at the end, I was like, oh, and who do we really have to blame? Are those the wine? Oh God.

And I was like, yes, the Weinstein brothers. One is bad. And the other one is. Yeah. One is an enabler.

A atrocity. So yes, supposedly Bob approached him with the idea to begin with, but like as much as again, as much as I usually get Rob zombie shit, like, It also sounds like he had the worst time in the world dealing with Bob because Bob's a horrible human being. And then on top of that, he was signed to a three picture deal with the Weinsteins. He made this first when he had such a horrible experience, he put it off and like didn't want to do the second one right away. So he pushed off the doing anything with them for as long as he could.

They already tried to bring in other directors and fired like 12 different directors trying to make two and And threw it out there to him again. And he was like, OK, OK, I'll come back and make two if you let me out of the three picture deal. So we got the second one just so he could escape from making a third movie with the Weinstein. That's a shame. I mean, that's the one thing I'll give Rob Zombie credit for.

I'm like, good for you, man. Way to get away from that. I mean, that is a very funny way of doing it. Yes. I will cut off my nose to spite my face.

All right, Rob Zombie, you do that. I will make. Another okay movie to get away from these horrible people to have to make a third probably terrible movie. So let me ask you something in terms of because we've kind of already talked about there's a very clear delineation in this movie between the first half and the second half. The first half is first three minutes of Halloween.

The second half is the remaining part of Halloween. the lori strode of it all and an additional moments but my question to you is which half of the movie is more successful if one is more successful than the other or are they kind of on even footy because you know this is this for me is like a die another day situation where it's like i think half of this movie is pretty good and the other half i kind of don't care. About see they're To me, they're both equally unsuccessful. I mean, they're not successful. I'm not saying they're successful. Don't get me wrong.

There's no success here, but I do think one part is more successful than the other. I have issues with both of them, but for entirely different reasons. See, I think you're saying you don't care about the second half because you've already seen it. I'm saying I don't care about the first half because it doesn't need to be there. I don't need it where at least the second half is an interesting bunch of scenes that.

You know, work better in the first one, if you ask me. But, you know, he still does. Like I said, he does such a close version that I'm like, if I didn't know that the original Carpenter movie existed, this last half would still be pretty entertaining. And I don't necessarily have to have that whole first half backstory nonsense. it would be more of a kind of a creepy, you know, what Michael Myers originally was supposed to be that form that just appears and murders people. And we don't know who he is.

We don't know why he does this. He just disappears into the night and he'll be back next year to do it again. Like he's so, yeah, I don't know. I think I'm more entertained by the idea of the second half, but I've already seen it. So it's a lesser version of a thing I've already seen, but I feel like I'm more frustrated by the first half because it's, A lot of the horrible ugliness that Rob Zombie loves so much is.

In that first half. More so. It's more concentrated in that first half of the movie. I would say you somewhat got it right in terms of where I'm coming at this. Yes, I find the second half of the film to be lesser than the first half.

But I think that what the first half does is it answers a question that no one had been asking the answer to, which is how did Michael Myers end up this way? Because the original doesn't really answer that question. And I wasn't asking that. You weren't asking that. I definitely wasn't.

Other people were, just like other people were asking, like, why was Darth Vader this way? Why was Hannibal Lecter this way? You know... they can you know and this is the reality of like serial killers and other kind of people like this they are the most unreliable narrators possible and so the fact that we have this like oh well this is the story of of whomever and you know his Anakin this is how Anakin became a bad guy like great this is why. He turned this one day in the freaking desert and it all went wrong from there like that's not how this works but I appreciate that the films are kind of like boiling it down to this because that's how we can see it in filmic form. But I never asked, like, why is Michael Myers this way?

I think to your point, it's always been more interesting for him to just be and just exist and murder and kill. And that's just baked into the premise. And there are things you can do with that. They just, again, they don't really seem interested in doing that with these Rob Zombie films. And I, to your point, do like the first half a little bit more because it is kind of answering a question that I wasn't really interested interested in getting the answer to and didn't have any interest in but I will say yeah the second half of the movie doesn't answer the question as to why he is the way that he is and the first half kind of does I mean if you if you say the first half of the movie shows us why Michael Myers is the way he is the second half essentially says there's no changing there's no like so what's the point there's yeah right like there's you know I I don't think that the movie isn't going there intentionally I mean I would say that there's bits and pieces of that throughout even the original Halloween to go to like back to what you were talking about the kind of the the nihilism of all this like why does he do this just because like he just kills just because like that's Michael Myers he just kills just because that's understood and I guess for me it's like maybe Rob Zombie should have beaten the point home that it wasn't just why does this keep happening.

Well, there's no real reason it keeps happening. It just keeps happening. And this kid just lost his shit one day just because no real rhyme or reason isn't that horrifying that in a world a civil world people can still be pushed to that like that should have been where he came into this because that's kind of where David Gordon Green comes into it and I think if he had done it here that would have probably pressed David Gordon Green to do something different in his movie because that was one of my issues with those movies like he took the easy way out it's like There is no explanation. It's like, that's fine. But like, you could add a little bit more than that.

If you're going to mention it at all, you should probably like add a little bit more to it. And I mean, I just don't think you mentioned it. Like, it doesn't matter where he came from. He's coming to kill you in that moment. You don't have to.

Mr. Michael Myers, where are you from? Like, they don't have that opportunity. Yeah. And with this fucking Michael Myers, there's like this is for the David Gordon Green movie to be as like he's so brutal and he just he kills a kid in that first movie.

Yo, this Michael Myers does not play. And this Michael Myers for me is the one that is similarly to the Andrew Byrnarski Leatherface. And what was it? The, the, the what's the Derek, Derek Myers, Derek Mears, Derek Mears, the guy who does Jason in the reboot. Those three dudes are in a class of their own as like giant human beings playing these characters, which I think, yes, there is a kind of a fear to the ghost face character because it's effectively a dude or a woman in an outfit.

So they're like effectively always somewhere in the ballpark of like six feet tall guys. or smaller. And they never mentioned that in any of the scream movies, but it would be very obvious if it's like a very short person chasing after you in the ghost face outfit, like literally. Be like, Oh look, that person's five foot two. Do we know anyone that's five foot two? Like specifically, if you watch that last one spoilers, but, uh, It should be real obvious who at least one of the ghost faces is.

One of the three ghost faces. One of the many, many ghost faces. Oh, no, wait. Are you talking about seven? Yeah, the one that just came out this last year.

Oh, my Jesus. One of them is a very small person. Let's put it that way. Yeah, and- And you should have noticed that when they were running around. Yeah.

I think for me, the thing about this kind of like this version of, of Michael Myers is I like that. We have a Michael Myers that makes sense within the scope of Rob zombie movie. He's brutal. He just like murders people with one wanted abandoned. He is very gratuitous.

Like he, he utilizes that knife really well in a way that's like really uncomfortable and like, you know, he just kills people. I mean, he kills D Wallace, just like cracks her neck, whatever. Like he's, he kills so many people in this movie and just, and I mean like literally just kills them and that's it. Like, and it's, it's worse because he's huge. Like the, the size disparity between him and most of the people is awful.

And that's what makes him so scary. Tyler Maine is a huge guy. He's huge. Yeah. He's a, he's a big dude.

And it, seems even bigger as he's sitting in that cell like he just seems huge which again is is kind of part of the as i think as you said it it's it's so fitting for the rob zombie of it all like i i feel like once again if it's just the he's the boogeyman he could be anybody of the old one it works better if he's a World Wrestling Federation nests to Rob Zombie and his upbringing and his fun and everything's supposed to be like trashy and over the top and crazy that, yeah, you need it to be a giant dude that looks like a wrestler. You know, it's like that's, That's what Rob Zombie wants. And that's what we get. Tyler Maine is huge. And like, so from that angle, and it is brutal.

Like he, he really doesn't even need the knife. And so many times we watch him just smash someone's head into a wall. I'm like, well, they're done. You don't need your trademark butcher knife anymore because. this dude can just crush you. He doesn't need the knife anymore.

So again, he doesn't use the knife on Dee Wallace. He breaks her neck. Like he just breaks her neck backwards. It's, it's awful. And it's again, like you've said, like it, it is a very, like Tyler Maine played saber tooth in the X-Men movies.

And that was because he's a giant dude compared to Hugh Jackman. And they're trafficking in that same thing here. We, a long time ago, got to talk to Tyler Maine about, um, a Western that he was in. He's a, he has, I think male breast cancer, which is crazy. Yeah.

That's the latest I heard. And that's really sad. I, right. I, I watched a short film with him at a convention one time. He seems like a nice dude.

Yeah, he's from everything I remember, a very nice guy, and wish him the best in recovery. But he works as Michael Myers here, like I said, because of the same reason that those other actors in those reboots work, which is they wanted to lean into, we have a giant actor here who can be physically intimidating already. is baked into it and look like we've already alluded to most of the people that these characters are chasing after are women and most women are shorter especially like you know if you're casting these kinds of movies you can lean into it and cast short women and a lot of these women in this film. Are they did like definitely are are three girls like two out of three are very short girls yeah which and it's very funny you know we we didn't talk about the daniel harris of it all Talk about a weird addition to this movie, but already having been in Halloween and technically also played Michael Myers, sort of.

That's kind of my favorite aspect of this when it originally came out. Like, I saw that cast and I was like, okay, number one, that's awesome. Like, that's a great tie-in to the Halloween universe of it all. At the same time, I was also like, and super awesome for Daniel Harris because... she was not a high schooler and yet she kind of convincingly pulled off the fact that she was a high schooler because she was well older than that, but she just didn't age. So like she, she convincingly came in to take on that role.

And yeah, I, I really liked Daniel Harris pretty much in everything. So I think she's a big addition to this and kind of even more so in the next movie coming up and, And I. Was 30 at the time they filmed. Yeah, that's what I was like. There's no one else could pull that off.

Like you would look at him and be like, yeah, right. But again, she just didn't age. So the fact that she came in that far into her career and was still able to come back and be the high school girl in the reboot, you know, I was like, that's amazing that. that she's able to pull that off. And I really like Christina Klee. I think she, as an actress, I've seen her in other things.

She's really good. I think those two bring a lot to what is, again, not the best written characters, but they have such great personality that comes through in their performances that they're really good. And they make you care about these characters probably more than you should. I, of all, I never really got the scout thing. I thought it was weird casting from the get-go.

And I'm just like, really? This is where? And then once you get in there and I'm like, I mean, fine. She's serviceable doing what she needs to do. Link of the three.

Yeah. Yeah. I think the other two are so good. You could have cast, look, maybe it would have been more distracting or just having Daniel Harris in this movie is distracting as it isn't as close as the Annie Brackett character is to Laurie Strode. But yeah, Why not just cast Danielle Harris as Laurie Strode?

I don't understand. If you're going to have it be that close anyways, why not just go whole hog? I don't know. Look, if you were already going to cast her and have it be distracting to a certain subsection of fans or then be excited, like you said, for her to be in this movie. why not just have her be Laurie? She's so much more charismatic than Scout Taylor Compton.

Scout Taylor Compton, for me, is the weakest part of this film. Most definitely. And that's shocking because she needs to be the one who's the least weak. The Sherry Moon Zombie of it all, to have watched the second one already, Sherry Moon Zombie is used about as well as you're going to get between these two movies. Yeah, I mean...

It's just enough. The second movie, I don't know why. I mean, that's the thing for so many people, myself included. That is the like Rob Zombie stumbling block. Number one is, look, I appreciate this guy thinks the world of his wife.

And I'm not saying don't think the world of the people you're with. But Sherry Moon Zombie doesn't need to be in everything. And she doesn't she doesn't do herself any favors because I know so many people just like that. Tom Holland thing where it's like, you know what? Except she's massively talented.

That's my boy like they're both but like it's not like that because i've seen people being like was zendaya just getting jobs because she's married to tom holland it's like no she's kind of the other way i think yeah yeah yeah i mean what i will say like in terms of the upside but sherry moon zombie has only been. Employed by her husband more or less. And that's i know people just like to hate on her on the internet and i get it because she comes off grating in so many she's maybe the best in this movie like she's at least you feel sorry for her i. Think she's the best in that monsters movie. Yeah she's she's all right there again i don't know that she had to be cast there but i knew she was gonna be because i knew who was i knew who was making the movie she had to be cast in any of these movies brian no i think i think i've always and again we're just sort of jumping past the original but i i like House of a Thousand Corpses.

I think it's maybe the least original concept he's come up with outside of the last half of this movie. But I really like what he does as a director. I like the characters he brings into it. She's a little obnoxious, but they're all kind of obnoxious in the household. So like I get it.

And she almost works it as like she's luring them in and it should be the reason you run away, but you don't. And that's how these guys get killed. So it's like she starts out OK, but by like Devil's Reject, she's already just so grating and like so like her constant laughing and like this bickering with the other two actors all the time and it's like she's just like almost purposely trying to make the audience hate her and I'm like You'd think at some point she would step in and be like, Rob, Rob, seriously, can we not make me a horrible character. This time around? Can we at least make me have some redeemable quality that people won't want.

Me to get murdered within the first scene of this movie? No. She doesn't, though. Unfortunately, she does. No, she does not.

And then Three from Hell, which I genuinely forgot, came out, and I know I've seen it. Yeah, yeah. Woof. She's fine. Well, you say that now.

Have you seen what she's doing lately? Again, I don't want to hate on her. I wish her the best. She seems like a lovely woman, but she makes questionable decisions in her artistic endeavors. Um, she's decided to go into music now.

And I'm like, why now? Like you've, you've been connected to like one of the biggest names in music and producing into things for years and years and years. But now you want to put out a song and if you've listened to it, you. You know, it's, it's not good. It's not.

I don't need to hear it to know that. You really don't. I made one of my co-hosts listen to it this past weekend, and she's still mad at me. And we only got halfway through. She's like, no, no, we need to stop.

I've had enough. So. yeah it's not good and that's what and once again you'd almost think eventually rob would also kind of step in and be like you know again let's do you a favor and like not put something out here that's gonna piss everybody off and make them dislike you even more but like he just i don't know if he has he's just blind to everything about that when it comes to her but like you'd think one or the other of them would put up some sort of barricade and be like no. No no no let's just How about we just stop putting you in things? One, two, let's do that. Just for your own sake.

I guess he's already directing the movie, so it's just nice to have her there and she's going to be there, I guess, put her in the movie. It's just second paycheck, you know, whatever. She's fine in this movie. She is, again, like stereotypically a sad, sad mom. Yeah.

And then all of her kids die and then she kills herself. Like, okay. Like, you're not really saying anything. It's a little. Heavy handed at that point of like, Aaron, of course, she's going to shoot herself.

And I was like, and once again, proving you're just a terrible mom because you still have another child that needs to be taken care of. Like, I know you're sad. I know two of your kids are dead or one of them's an asylum and the other got murdered in your house. And you're horrible, horrible, sort of a stepfather to that guy. We won't even go there.

He deserved it, I think is what you're trying to say. Yeah. But once again, love William Forsythe. I think he's amazing. And if anybody could pull off like such a convincing version of that guy, I'm like, oh, you hired the right, you hired the right dude.

But yeah, I mean, you've got another kid. Like you give up that right to be selfish and take yourself out when you're a mother. Like, I know it's not fair, but you're supposed to not murder your children. I'm just dipping into the news there. And then you're supposed to not murder yourself and go off and leave them to fend for themselves when they're a baby.

So again, it doesn't do her any favors as a character as much as this is, like I said, one of her more endearing performances that doesn't. Say much in her career. And I think what's interesting is for all the kind of things that they do that are different or things that they do that are the same, they do so much that is the same in terms of the second half of the movie more or less feeling identical to Halloween. I'm surprised that Cherry Moon Zombie isn't in it all the way to the end. I'm surprised that Cherry Moon Zombie... is not a target of Michael for some reason.

X, Y, Z, one, two, three, like there's none of that. It is very rote by the end of the film. Like by the end of the second, like the second half of the film is just by the numbers Halloween with a little bit more kill. Almost shot for shot. Not quite.

It mixes it up enough, but it's pretty damn close. At least beat for beat, it's the same thing. Not shot for shot, but it definitely hits all the beat. Other than some characters surviving that shouldn't. Annie Brackett, don't understand why Daniel Harris' character survives.

And again, I feel like they left all of that as a gray area that could have been changed in the edit. Because by the end of the first one, the first time I saw it, I was like, didn't she die? I mean, it's very Ian Malcolm. Like you could have like we're still alive like well it's it's it's kirby it's like we just never came back is she dead is she alive i don't know she probably bled out and if you said she bled out in the next movie she did and if you decide you want to use her you bring her back so you leave that door open but like same thing with like loomis it seemed like he crushed his head like he shoves his fingers through his eye holes and then like he's back later you know it's like everybody you Depending on how you pull that edit off could have been dead by the end of this movie if they were just like nope one and done we're out let's just call it like but they leave the door open for so many of them that you're like well I mean we got to have somebody in the sequel I guess.

And you know speaking of things that they had to have in the sequel or I guess in this movie at all talk about the. ham-fisted way they introduce the mask. It's very like, well, you don't have anyone with you, so we're gonna call you Solo. Like, what the fuck? Where the fuck did that come from? What stage right post-it note did you throw into my hands like a fucking paper airplane for me to go, McClunky?

Like, what the hell? I genuinely don't understand Solo. some of the choices this movie it's it is befuddling to me why it does some of the things that it does uh and and so much of this film is just unsuccessful choice after unsuccessful choice but for me most of that is the second half of the movie because it's like you know what rob zombie you have the opportunity to do your own thing john carpenter even said to do your own thing and you didn't he said i will did for half the movie Yeah, but you did sort of though, because again, like he makes choices in the second half of the movie that are very different. He knows how to do different things, but then he just is like, well, but Laurie's going to like baby around the fucking kids for 10 minutes.

You know what the least exciting part of Halloween has always been? Laurie's interaction with the kids she's babysitting every time. I mean, this was the most entertaining because that little exchange with both of the kids, again, these are maybe the least annoying versions of the kids. Like I was just like, these are kind of fun. I like these two.

I wish we'd like get a little more going with them. And Quit wasting our time with Lori. No, she and Lori is just such a flat character. She reminds me a lot of Luke Skywalker in A New Hope. She's meant to be just like the fated savior of the film who you know because she's michael myers sister she's going to be the one who ends up killing him in the end and that is exactly where the film goes it doesn't do anything different and again this is a rob zombie movie for it you know for it being a rob zombie movie it is shockingly safe it really is the kills and the gratuity and all the other over the top stuff is there and he's shoving that in your face the whole time But when it comes to story arc and changing anything important, no, it's exactly like I said, it's beat for beat.

Let's stick to the thing that works because that made us money for all these other movies. And that's what he does. So let me ask then question in terms of making choices and decisions that are different. Does this does the second half of this movie? Is it a more or less successful remake of the first film than the David Gordon Green one is?

It's a more accurate reading. Like, I feel like it's so close. Well, like I said, you could if you didn't know the first one existed, you could watch this and you'd get the exact same thing out of it, where I feel like David Gordon Green does enough weird different stuff along the way that like it feels like a different movie, at least where this just feels like a rewarmed version of the movie you already saw just done half as long. It's like it just speeds up that last half and crams it into an hour. And then like we get pretty much the same thing we've already seen.

So at least the David Gordon Green stuff is written to be a different movie. Essentially, it's still got to hit, you know, your basic horror movie beats, but it doesn't have to hit the exact Halloween beats. Of the 78 movie. Well, and again, like I was mentioning with Carpenter, Carpenter said, don't remake my movie. Do something different.

Yeah. It's Rob Zombie who made this choice of like, well, I'm just going to give them what they've already seen. And that, you know, to go back to that Friday the 13th Nightmare on Elm Street and Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Of those three, because those are the three big reboots that I think this one is kind of in the same league with, the ones that do things that are markedly different are Friday the 13th, which is a completely different movie than the original. Yeah. And Texas Chainsaw, I would say Texas Chainsaw works because it is just updating of the original movie.

Yeah, I was going to say that one was sort of the first, because I was thinking that. I was like, well, when we did this, it was before those other two. So this was kind of like. Early on in the remake. Texas Chainsaw was the original one.

Well, I was going to say, this, I was thinking, was the first of the Between Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street. But then I was like, no, Texas Chainsaw remake was well before this one came along. But this was in between. But this was in between. So yeah, this is in the middle of the run, and it's them just...

It's definitely, I feel like, the most... different in approach in like stylistically approach like it's got that big rob zombie stamp on it so like the look of it and the attitude that it has i think is maybe the most different of those four but does it do anything original story-wise not not at all really but i feel like the other ones maybe yeah it's hit and miss they're all so different and they all attempt to Again, Texas Chainsaw is the one that really doesn't do anything that different. It really does just like instead of having really, you know, old 70s grainy footage, we're just going to shoot this and it's going to be you know, a decent looking print and we're going to get actors you might have seen.

In something before. And that's about it. So I don't know. That maybe is the more successful of the four. It's just an updated version that looks better.

And I am someone who's been a fan of and goes to bat for that Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake often because I like that a lot. And there are, what, like five sequels that came off of that movie or something? I don't even know how many. They just kept rebooting it or prequeling it. That, though.

That, not anything else. It was wild. That became the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I don't get it. It's crazy because no other franchise has had a reboot supplant the original as the film that's now being prequelized and sequelized.

That's kind of an insane thing. That's a Texas Chainsaw thing that hasn't happened with any of these other ones. This... is the closest we get, because this gets one sequel. But that Texas Chainsaw gets all these weird prequels, like two prequels, and then at least one sequel. It's fucking insanity.

I don't even remember how many. There are at least two movies, two prequels, right? That's because I think that just didn't have the original viewers that this did. That's what I was thinking, too, in the comparing of all the reboots. Like, or at least attempt to start a whole new series again.

It's like the difference, like Texas Chainsaw, it's super low budget. It's schlocky. It looks like half the time you're watching a scuffed up print that has been around the block. So none of that really made its way over into mainstream audiences. Whereas Halloween not only was successful in its own theatrical run, but I mean, it was so mainstream, they shot extra footage to put it on network television.

That's how many people out in the regular world saw Halloween. So Halloween was just like it was the go to every regular person who kind of wanted to watch something scary had seen Halloween. So I think it had the potential. to bring in a much bigger audience, but also like people had seen the original Carpenter version a lot more, then I think outside of horror fans, you would be hard pressed to find regular people who'd seen that original Texas Chainsaw Massacre before or since. I mean, even now, I feel like most people, unless they're a horror fan, they haven't watched it. Well, and I think that the comparative that I'll use in terms of something that's another form of media, if we look at what they've done with Resident Evil 2 or 3 or 4 in the last decade, where they've remade them but they haven't rebooted them they've remade them they've gone back and upgraded the graphics and added more content because you can't you can't just remake a game from 20 years ago with that amount of content in this day and age and think that that's okay like i don't think anyone's gonna stand for that and if you're gonna remake the game you're already dealing with the assets so put some more stuff in there I would say that that Texas Chainsaw Massacre film is more akin to what they did with like Metal Gear Solid 3 or Resident Evil 4 or 2 or 3, where it's like, we're just going back in and taking something that didn't have the best graphics and upgrading.

We're not gonna do much to the story. We might build it out a little bit more, But the bones are already there, like, well enough that we don't have to. This movie is a reboot. Like, it's not a remake. Like, that David Gordon Green movie, it's not really a remake either.

It's, I don't know, it's more of a reboot, I guess. But again, it's more of a gray area than this film. This is a reboot. Well, it's a recall. Yeah.

Yeah, because it is a sequel to the original movie, but it's also in the process remaking the same original movie. Well, rebooting the original movie, right? Like, I don't know if it's making it. This is remaking. This is the first and only time we ever get a proper remake of like, this is the only time Laurie Strode is ever recast.

This is the only time we get this. Like, this is the only time we get a remake or a reboot, excuse me, of Halloween. I think that, I think that the, like, like you said, the one, the David Gordon green one is a requel. It's like, it's not, this is the, this is full on reboot. They recast Dr.

Loomis. They recast Lori, like those two things alone. It's like that. It's like the nightmare on Elm street movie. Like that's a reboot with the one with Rooney Mara.

And yeah, it's, It's and it's trying to do something different. It is not successful, but. It is trying to bring its own vibe to it. Yeah, it just the only reason the original one worked is because it It was creepy, but it didn't lean into the creepy the way that the reboot does. The reboot feels.

Creepy, but in a way that's legitimately creepy. And I'm like, oh, nobody wants to watch you mess with these kids. Like, stop that. Like, no, go back to just murdering children. People thought that was fun.

Just go back to murdering them. Well, and that's, I think the thing that like you alluded to is kind of lost with this movie is this movie is not fun. Yeah, it's really not like it's, it's abusive. Like it's so assaulting on your senses. It is.

And some people come to him for that. And I understand they like him because he's extreme, but like, there's gotta be like some finesse to it. Like, that's what I get. Like from the get go, like the opening of this movie, the first thing we see is, It's just these characters just screaming. At each other.

And the worst, most obnoxious dialogue. And just gross for the sake of gross. Just like everything about it is just assaultive. And I'm just like, I'm already. Not having fun.

Like, I want to enjoy this movie. I'm trying. Again, I'm trying to go in open-minded. And like, immediately, it's just a punch in the face. It's just like, oh, here's the family he's part of.

Enjoy this movie. Wonderful home life like i know you're trying to prove a point but you're also doing it with no real style it's just like you've got your crazy visual style and it's a totally different vibe i get that but like as far as just putting it out there in a way that makes you want to watch and be part of this movie like immediately i was just turned off i'm just like uh This family is so not what I want to see for two hours now. Well, and that's I think that that for me is the part that I I don't say like I don't vibe with it, but it's definitely the part where I'm like, OK, like you really are doing something else here. You're doing something weird. You're injecting like that 70s exploitation into the film.

I think the problem that I really have with this movie, and you're going to laugh, the problem that I have with this movie is, why wasn't this movie just set in the 70s? I mean, everything Rob Zombie does in his mind is kind of in the 70s. I know, but why not just set it in the 70s? Because this ends up being... Like, oh, 1990.

It doesn't even feel like 1990 when we cut to the Laurie Strode part of it. And I know it's supposed to be. But it is supposed to be 1990. And then in the next film, that I don't even... They're just like, we don't give a shit.

Like, it doesn't even... They're out of time. It's just off in the woods somewhere. We don't know where and when. They're playing a lot of 70s music, but it's supposed to be 1990.

Like, this... This movie, like for me, the time in this movie makes no sense. This should be set in the 70s. They should have leaned harder into the exploitation of it all. And it really should have been this like just slasher adjacent to Last House on the Left or I Spit on Your Grave, like something like that.

And you know what? I think you and I and most people who are not just Rob Zombie fans would have gone into this going, okay, I get what this is now. And the fact that I'm having to do some of the heavy lifting for Rob Zombie to get it close to that is the problem because he was given an opportunity that you and I will never have, which is, hey, you can take a franchise that is known internationally, that has branded products out the fucking wazoo, And you can do something with it. And you can do whatever you want. Carte Blanche.

You are the Cain Parsons and Curry Barker of your day and age in the mid-2000s. Like, literally. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, he was the biggest name in the world. So much so, he didn't even make movies.

And they went, here, make movies. Like, that's not even your job. Please, for the love of God, make a movie. Shit. Make movies like, yeah.

It's crazy. And he makes this movie like for me, this movie is him phoning it in. And I'm not sure anyone would ever level that criticism against this movie. But for me, this movie doesn't go far enough. It doesn't do enough.

It doesn't retain. The sense of ickiness and grossness that it should have had throughout that the first half of the movie does so well, where we just have this like dead eyed child actor who, again, like perfect casting of like a young Michael Pitt. Like, I don't know how else you describe him, but he's like Michael Pitt, like adjacent. and you have him just murdering adults and other kids. You know what? I enjoyed that part of the movie so much because it is different and not what we've seen before, but it's not different enough.

It again leans into things that you've seen before and seen elsewhere that are done... better elsewhere because they're not having to, for whatever reason, be Halloween. That's the thing that's maybe the worst thing about this movie is that it's a Halloween movie that forces it to do certain things. Even though John Carpenter was like, do your own thing, man. If you're recasting Laurie and Dr. Loomis, you've already done too much.

Do less than that. And that's the problem with this movie and all the other Halloween movies is they end up just recasting Laurie and Dr. Loomis over and over again. Because even the David Gordon Green movies, the first one at least does that. The most successful of the three in terms of financials.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I think that's part of my issue with that That first half is there, like I said, is because it's. trying to do this reassessment of, you know, the, the murderous character in the middle of a Halloween movie where it doesn't belong. Like, and I was, I was trying to think, and this maybe does not even belong in this entire episode because this is a very different movie. But as you were describing earlier of like how a kid becomes this, you know, it's like, and a way to look at it in an interesting way. That's not just your like half-ass version of it.

And then he just flips the switch and murders everybody. But I was thinking I saw years ago when it first came out, there's a movie called And Then I Go. And it was 2017. And it's a very different. Is it indie drama kind of a movie?

It does not. Most people that like horror are not going to care about this movie. But my point was, I remember in watching that the thing that it did that was amazing is it's about this kid at school and he's really unhappy. And he's like, he's kind of got one friend and everybody else, you know, picks on him and treats him like shit. And we get a lot of these same beats as the Michael story.

But it's done realistically and it's done without all the god awful dialogue that we have here. But it also feels real that this kid feels like he's actually in this school. And the thing that's the most amazing is it takes these little moments and these little baby steps of because by the end of it. trigger warning for anybody that does want to watch it. It eventually becomes about a school shooting. And what it does is like it introduces these moments that like this kid is just generally unhappy.

But at the same time, he's going through his normal day to day life. So it's like on the one hand, he and his friend are deciding what day they're gonna shoot up the school and then he goes home and has dinner with his mom and dad and it's just like hey you want to go on vacation next week all right cool where do you want to go like he's of two different minds and like as a kid he doesn't realize that you know these consequences are going to lead to this horrible end like it is these weird little baby steps that make it a realistic portrait of that and a believable version of how someone can end up in this place and not even fully understand how they got there. And that's not what we get here. So I know it's a very different type of movie, but that's what I'm saying.

There is a way to do that. I don't think it belongs in a slasher movie. I don't think it belongs in the Halloween franchise. And I don't know that Rob Zombie is the. One to do it.

So. But there is a way to do something like that. And it's just weird that he tries to cram that in here and still put his weird over the top spin on it. But at the same time, not just not deliver what we need from from that story. If you're going to do that story, you should do that story.

When I sat down to watch Halloween, I wasn't like, oh yeah, by the way, I need my friend Dahmer in this movie. Well, that's the thing. Which I don't hate that movie. I'm not saying anything about that movie in particular. It's just the same idea.

It gives you a little look into this guy and yeah, by the end you're like, I don't know that I'm supposed to feel sorry for him. But at the same time, you see these little steps along the way that like, you know, if somebody would have been... a nice person to this kid instead of just being an asshole, none of this. Would have happened. So like, I feel like that movie at least throws it back at people in general and be like, you know, we do this to people. Like we treat each other like shit.

And then we wonder why people end up murdering each other. It's like the world is terrible because we create it. And here it is. So it's like, again, I don't know that we can address that in a schlocky Rob Zombie movie, but like there are movies out there that do that kind of stuff and whether or not they're successful is, you know, a case by case basis, but. Yeah, I think it's that same type of thing that you can do in a movie.

Just not this movie. Well, and that's, I think, you know, I appreciate that Rob Zombie was trying to do that with this. I just don't, I guess I don't understand why. If that's what you're trying to inject as your kind of, well, that's my thing. It's like, Rob Zombie, since when are you trying to, like, I'm taking a look at childhood violence and what turns someone like Michael Myers from a child into a murderer.

It's like... All of a sudden, this is like your raison d'etre. Like, what? Where is it? Where is this coming from?

I guess is my whole thing. And it's very weird to me because it doesn't like you said, it doesn't have a place in a hour and a half, two hour long slasher film. That's not why people are here to see slasher films. If you want to do that, do it in a TV show. Like, you know what?

You know what was a great TV show? Hannibal. It shouldn't have worked at all. But yet it did. Why?

Because they understood that like the interesting parts can be kind of metered out slowly if we do something different and entertaining that they've literally never seen before or has been alluded to otherwise. But we can give them the notes that they've heard. It doesn't have to be immediate, but like we'll get to them eventually or maybe not ever. Well, and it's stylish and it's like it's got style the way it presents it and it does it in a way that's like respectful to the audience. Like, yeah, we're still going to get to some really gross stuff down the line that Hannibal the Cannibal is going to do.

It's not like the gore is missing from that original movie or well, the second version of that movie. Definitely. There's a lot of gore in that thing. and a crazy character at the center of it. But there's still a way to tell even that story that gives you the grossness that you kind of want as a horror fan, but gives you some character development and gives you like a reason to be invested in this person. You don't even have to like him.

You don't have to feel sorry for him. You don't have to play that card. But you can expand on it and you can try to examine why he's like that without necessarily being on his side. Yeah, and in this film, not that the film needs to get me to Michael Myers' side, but it does feel like it spends the first half of the movie attempting to do that. Well, it goes back and forth.

Yeah, and then it abandons it completely in the second half because there's no... The characterization I get from Michael in the second half of the movie is there is no characterization. He just walks around... he can get shot yeah he can get shot he can shake it off he and he he's you know again like you alluded to he's murdering men women children animals with with no with no fucks given i mean he kills kills a lot of people but he doesn't. Even seem like he's aware of it it's just like which again like later in the embodiment of evil like i get that like if that's all he's supposed to be then yeah he doesn't care it's just what he does he's not a character enough to care but here we're trying like we ping pong back and forth in this first half of the movie of like well now he's a nice kid now he seems like he's okay so like you gotta make up your mind are we supposed to care about him as a character or is he just evil and we just watch him you know murder people like it you kind of have to pick a lane and I don't feel like Rob Zombie ever does that.

Which is wild to me because that's not what I thought I would walk away from this watch of the film being like Rob Zombie didn't go far enough like has anyone ever said that about Rob Zombie well But he does what he always does. And that's the problem is like he will take and sometimes it's more successful than others. But I ended up coming back to one of my least favorite. One of the few times I've. Ever really ranted about a Rob Zombie movie.

That El Superbisto thing that he did. I mean, the thing that annoyed me the most is he just pissed away some of the coolest opportunities. Like you were saying earlier, you were given just carte blanche. Just go to town. You are the biggest name in the world right now.

You can do whatever you want. Here's your favorite franchise from when you were a kid. Go to town. And like, instead, this just comes off kind of like a big self-indulgent fan film at times. Like there's still moments when you can see Rob being the dumb 13 year old kid going, wouldn't it be cool?

Like Michael Marsh is like murdered the hell out of a bunch of people. Like he just smashes this dude into the wall. Cause he's like a big, huge guy. And like, he just, you just see the dumb 13 year old boy coming out in so many of these scenes when it's just so gratuitous and over the top. And I'm like, There's a place for that in schlocky movies, but again, I feel like it's just so mishandled in the hands of Rob Zombie most of the time.

It's like when you got those toys as a kid and you just smashed them together. Yeah. I'm playing with them. I mean, I guess in the literal sense you are, but technically, yeah, not. You're breaking your shit.

Yeah. It's such a shame because I feel like that Nightmare on Elm Street movie, one of the criticisms that I level against it is there's a moment in that movie where you have these characters and they're going to pull the curtain back and it's like, this is where Freddy's like, like rape room is child rape room and i thought that it would have been such a good twist if they had pulled that back and there was nothing there and they had killed an innocent person and for the first time you're like oh shit like freddy krueger is just like pissed off rightfully so that he was killed by like town justice that was misdirected at somebody and should have been directed at somebody else wouldn't that have made that movie infinitely more interesting i mean maybe definitely more interesting but not any more successful, but it would have made it more interesting.

And yet they just did the most fucking obvious thing. It's like, no, we're just doing what we've already done. And I have a real big problem with that because again, why are you doing what's already been done other than because you don't feel like working on something or putting in the effort, I guess, because your assumption is, well, it's worked and made money before. So people will resonate with it again the same way. And yes, I guess that is the case sometimes.

But go look at a franchise like Star Wars, which again, might not sound like a comparative to Halloween. But in terms of the amount of money that it's made, Halloween is kind of the Star Wars. It's kind of the film for its genre that I would say is like, close in parallel to Star Wars. It's made a ton of money, relatively cheap movie, technically more or less what we would consider an indie film that has had its fair share of issues, but has ultimately made tons of money for the people that have been making it. It or involved keeps coming back and every time the fans still get upset and they still just come back and like okay okay we'll try to fix those things you complain about and then they come back and do it all wrong again let's just piss people off to no end but they keep cranking them out anyway so it's like well we can't let this franchise die we got to do something and I don't know.

You guys figure it out. Well, and that's, you know, my, my point is like, when we talk about where Halloween goes from like where it is now, they're going to reboot it. I hope. And I hope that they reboot it. And it has nothing to do with Lori, because while I appreciate that, this movie is trying to get us to be like, Oh my God, like Lori is, Had to murder her brother who took care of her and was probably the only one that loved her other than her mom.

And oh, isn't it awful that she's sitting there and having to click that gun at the end of the film to murder her brother? And yes, although those all of those things are awful, but because there's no emotional stakes to the Scout Taylor Compton version of Laurie, it that it doesn't really matter. None of what happens in this movie matters, and it's such a shame. There's no connection between the characters. She doesn't know who he is.

Like, she doesn't know his name's. Michael until that very last scene, right before he's dead, in theory, sort of. Maybe, not not. When Loomis, not really, but within the context of this movie, it seems like he's dead. So within the last few seconds, Loomis says his name, and then she's.

Like, yeah, Michael, let me go. Like, because... She didn't know who this guy was. He's once again, he's supposed to be the boogeyman. He's supposed to not have an identity.

But then all of a sudden, the next scene over, we're supposed to care because, oh, well, now it's my brother and I want to save you or shoot you in the face, whatever. Like, I don't know. It just it can't ever seem to make up its mind what it is it's trying to do, even from one scene to the next sometimes. Well, and that's, I think for me, the biggest problem with this movie is that tonal inconsistency when you as Rob Zombie should have just made like the ultimate exploitation, like love letter to slasher films. And I look like slasher films and exploitation, you know, I mean, again, there are plenty of exploitation films that are slasher films, but I don't consider as someone who watched a lot of slasher films, I don't really consider exploitation and slasher to be like in that same like Like they, they exist.

Like there are some exploitation films that are slasher films. Most slasher films are just doing their own thing. And they're not necessarily like involved with setting an exploitation. Yeah. They're not trying to prove a point either.

They're just like, here's the story we're making. We got a little bit of money. We got we want to do. Some cool kills like they're just they're in the moment wanting to do something cool for the audience. And like maybe we'll make a little money along the way.

But like nobody has any big plan half the time, especially in the older ones anyway. Now, sometimes you get some smarter slashers, maybe kind of, but. For the most part, the old, you. Know, classic ones were just sort of like throwing it out there and be like, hey, let's put this guy in a mask and he's got a knife and he's trying to kill these girls. And like, that's the most thought that was put in a lot of them.

But at the same time, it did it stylistically. It did it with a fun attitude that made you like even if these kids were dumb you're just like hey it's fine they're gonna get murdered in a minute who cares like you didn't immerse yourself in this horrible dialogue and try to build up these characters into something bigger or some story arc that's supposed to lead somewhere because they're all gonna be dead in an hour and a half so like it didn't matter like you were just there to have fun and it felt like the people making the movie were having as much fun as the audience half the time and i don't feel like either of the people are having fun in this movie I feel like even Rob Zombie was tortured by the producers.

So like he's in a bad situation, putting it together and we're in a bad situation sitting out in the audience. Well, and I also think what's interesting in terms of like, what was Rob Zombie trying to achieve here and what does he achieve? I don't know if he was trying to achieve this kind of, I don't know. Like, again, like you said, like slashers are kind of a flight of fancy genre that have been given weight and meaning in the post, not in retrospect. Yeah.

Like the, Michael Myers' mask was literally just well that's the mask that they bought it was a Captain Kirk mask so they had to make it like not look like Captain Kirk that's it. And even in the Carpenter movie yeah it had no he stole a mask any mask didn't matter it was the one sitting on the shelf It didn't have magical powers that we had to, like, return to the mask that he originally killed his sister in. And we have to smash through. The floor to find it 15 years later because it's so important that he's wearing this mask. It's the reverence given to these things by the fans afterwards that I really have a problem with not.

And that, and that creators lean into it because like, Oh look, it's the Michael Myers mask and here's the knife. And it's like, it's like those shots in ghostbusters afterlife where they, they linger on the Ecto one or they linger on the proton pack. It's like, look, look at, look at how great this is now that we're finally seeing this in They're so. Reverent about those. They love those things.

But that's the same, like, even with this is, like, still pretty reverent. It doesn't stray too far. The most ridiculous one is when they worked it into the dialogue, and you've got this voiceover of Loomis, and he has become... a mere shape of a human bead. I was like, ah, wink, wink, nudge, nudge. You know what I mean?

See what I did there? See how I worked at it? I'm like, yeah, we get it. Like, hey, that's the name of the movie. You and your ham-fisted, you know, references.

Good going. We get it, Rob. So it's like the fact that they went so far as to like, make sure that phrase ended up in there because that's what the fans have been calling them all these years. I'm like, yeah, we get it. Like, it's just, it's so hammy when you have to, we have to see all the pieces coming together.

It's like, why do we have to kill Grizzly? Because we need a cast member that's big enough to wear a jumpsuit that Tyler Maine might possibly be able to fit in. Not really, but at least you would kind of believe that versus Every other member of the cast. So it's like, well, we got to get this guy because we like him. He's in other horror movies and he's kind of the tall guy.

So it might work that he gets his trademark jumpsuit because we have to have his trademark jumpsuit so he can wear it with his trademark mask and. We'll issue him a special Halloween edition knife to go stab people with that he bought at the Hot Topic. Or Spirit down the street. Yeah, it's like everything is so branded at this point in the franchise that you can't escape that. You've got to line it up and be like, here it comes.

He's going to get the jumpsuit. It's like, so you're waiting as a fan. We're supposed to be waiting for all these moments. And I'm like. We didn't have that in the first movie.

That's why we liked it so much. It was this cool new original thing that, you know, for the most part we hadn't seen before. But yeah, you don't get that in these reboots and reattempts and recalls and like because it's you've got to put all the pieces together that people want or the fans. Get upset about it. But then you've got other fans like ourselves that are just like, why are you doing the same crap over.

And over again? Well, that's the question that I think then comes to the film like this one and so many of these other reboots and requels. What is the best option? Because in my mind, the best option is a mix of the two, but a healthy dose of doing something different with both either way. You can... be as reverential and self-referential as you want, but don't just reference it and be like, hey, memba this, memba that, because South Park already did memba berries, and I think that they did a pretty good job of sending up people that are like that, because people are like that, and the people that are like that are the people that make the content for us.

And then expect that that's good enough. And the reason that it is received the way that it is, is because people do allow themselves to be nostalgic for things. And I'm not saying don't be nostalgic, but know that your nostalgia is being trafficked in. That's why they're doing it. I'm plenty nostalgic, but I'm nostalgic for things that are the original.

Like I will go buy whatever crap you put out there that has Michael Myers on it that is just referencing the first movie. I don't need you to rebrand it on a new thing and make a whole new movie just to sell me this garbage. Like, you can just slap the Carpenter name on it. I'll still buy it. Like, I'm equally, if not more so, guilty of being super nostalgic and floating up to buy, you know, more merchandise of these things that I've been watching for years and years.

But I don't need you to remake the same thing just to sell me more stuff. I'll buy a popcorn bucket if I want one. I don't have to buy it at the theater watching a movie that I've already seen done better before. Well, that's the thing that's funny is, and I was, I was talking about this over the weekend with, uh, with someone where it's like, they don't know anymore how to make money. So they're just attempting at every possibility and avenue to make money and see what works.

And, uh, Some of those things are showing a movie again and having a popcorn bucket come out with it, as opposed to remaking a film. You're still spending money either way. Hell, you might even be spending as much money. I don't know anymore. Probably.

You can make a film for a pretty cheap budget. Nobody seems to do it other than YouTubers who have been doing that this whole time. But it's, you know, to come to this movie, which has a budget of 15 million dollars in 2007, makes 80 million dollars. That's a successful movie. Yeah.

And again, they from the studio end of it, from the producer end of it, it did what it was supposed to do. It did it the right way in their mind. Again, not for me. But like it put it out there as a, such a novelty that it was just, and I think this one more than those other remakes, I think because of the Rob Zombie name, he's so pre-established and pre-established in a very specific vibe, especially by this, he'd already done several of his signature early movies. So people knew visually type of stuff he did and definitely his taste.

So like, we're gonna get this totally different Rob Zombie spin on it and the thing I think that's maybe the most notable and this this baby hit me more this time is like this, people like to call out Tarantino for casting his favorite old timey people. This doesn't have, this doesn't have anybody in it that's not already a pre-established person from another horror movie. Like they're just the entire cast. Or something. Or something.

Or occasionally, yeah. Occasionally just a pop culture figure, one of which is actually the better. Mickey Dolenz. That's what I was going to say. The best one.

I was like, this is at least a fun cameo. I don't understand why other than you're a music dork and you like the monkeys because the monkeys are awesome. So like, I'll watch Mickey Dolenz do whatever, but it's just every way. Like it's a checklist of like, you know, every few minutes you're Leo looking at the screen point. Richard Lynch.

I know that guy. I know that guy from the other thing. And like, it's just nonstop every time. Like, ah, Sid Hank, look at Sid Hank. Like, It's so nonstop.

You almost can't focus on the movie. It's one thing if it's a couple of cool cameos along the way. Or you give somebody that's been out of the limelight a chance to have a cool leading role that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. But this one is just nothing but cameos crammed together to make a movie essentially and I'm like I appreciate it and I'll get to that point in a minute of what it actually did but at the same time like as a movie and just as a viewer I think it's distracting like I think it takes away from the story you're trying to tell because the whole thing is just like oh look at that look at that Isn't that the kid from Spy Kids? Yeah, it is.

It's like the whole time. Isn't that Daniel Roebuck? Isn't that Clint Howard and Udo Kier and Bill Moseley and Ken Ferre? Take your pick. It's everybody.

Yeah. Adrian barbeau is in this goddamn movie for fuck's sake like this and and i think for me the probably most distracting of all of them and you're gonna laugh was sid haig i was just like is that sid haig he's huge i love sid he's massive though like compared to malcolm mcdowell he's massive i love sid. But um but okay that's the one thing i'm gonna give rob zombie credit for and it's weird because it has nothing to do with The movie scene, it has nothing to do with music, although I don't think he's terrible at music. I actually like his music more than his movies. But the one thing I will give him credit that he did, and it was sort of inadvertently, by making this questionable decision in this movie, but this movie may be more than even the ones before it, this guy.

Like, saved the.... Able to live careers of so many working actors out. Yeah. With this movie, like he started in his first couple, like he, he pulled bill Mosley out and was like, dude, you've been in these great movies. I want you to be in this.

He pulled sin. Hey, could spend his entire life making these awesome movies. And we're like, I'm putting you in this. You're going to be, you're going to be a superstar in horror from here on out. Like he was, never a recognizable name before house of a thousand corpses, like only super geeks that knew him from every character role that he.

Did knew who he was. And then he came along and gave him captain Spalding was like, Oh my God, you've made my career. Like you've, you've made it. So I don't have to go get a regular job now. And then by the time we got to this movie and I can say this because I was I was there like we were already we'd been covering conventions before we were doing a show like we were hanging out at conventions just as geeks back in the day.

And then right as we started doing the show is when the convention scene kicked in and it became a scene. And this movie was coming out right around that time. And every time. Table was another person from this movie and they were all built they'd get a new banner that was like from halloween rob zombies halloween and like each of these people d wallace is out there signing a million new autographs because now all of a sudden these kids that didn't they're too young to even remember et but they saw this last weekend and now they want to go get her signature and like all of these people like had an entire new convention career that came from near this movie if not all of the rob zombie movies but this one in particular just was focused on cramming so many like specific recognizable horror movies but only if you're a horror movie fan and and cramming all these actors in and working them into this plot and again i think it's to the detriment of the movie but real world like he pulled so many of these actors out of obscurity and gave them a way to make a living by hitting conventions every weekend.

And I mean, that's amazing. Like meeting a lot of these people over the years and like, this is what saved them from having to go work at Walmart. You know, it's like, this is what saved them so that they could have, you know, half of them are older now. They can't get a regular job more than likely. So this gave them a way to survive.

And like, That's the one thing I will give Rob Zombie credit for, and he didn't do it purposely, but he ended up inadvertently giving all these people a way to make a living after this movie. No, and I totally agree. I agree on both accounts, both the giving them the opportunity to have a longer tail to their career than so many other contemporaries, but also... It's a real distracting. It is.

To have Sid Egg and Udo Kier and Ken Ferre and Danny Trejo. Some of them are more extended than others. I will say like Bill Moseley or Clint Howard at least are in like a scene, extended scene. But like some of these are just like, yeah, you mentioned some of them work like Danny Lynch. He's just like in the movie for like two lines.

But like Danny Trejo is a character and like you feel for him and like and that's one of those ones where it ping pongs. Back and forth. It's like we've just seen, you know. several times when he's a kid and he does something nice. And you're like, oh, he's a good guy. See, I want to feel bad for this kid.

And then you. Watch him murdering Danny Trejo, who as he's doing is saying, I've never been anything but nice to you. Like, I've never done anything but take care of you for 15 years of your life, kid. And he just murders him and doesn't care because he's already catatonic. So I'm just like, well, once again, how are we supposed to feel?

Like, why bring this lovable person like Danny Trejo. In only to watch him get murdered? And for no reason, like it's not even like, you know, you get to like the Courtney Gaines of it all. And I'm like, no, these two rapists that he murders. I'm like, yeah, that's when it's like now all of a sudden Rob or Michael Myers is an avenging angel and he's out there like saving this poor girl, although he's not.

In reality, the only reason he attacks him is because they mess with his mask like he could care less about this girl because, again, he's catatonic. He doesn't pay attention to anything going on. Except when you mess with the stuff. And so that's one of those moments when I'm just like, what what is the point of this? And why are we working in these horrible characters like those two that show up in a cell?

And you and you've got, again, two different cameos. You've got Lou Temple. You've got Courtney Gaines. It's like those are great if you know who the horror actors are, but you just crammed them in there. In a god awful scene.

Like we don't need that. That's the one thing that's added from the other one. We didn't have a horrible rape scene. Thanks Rob Zombie. That's what we needed in our Halloween movie.

So we work that in. Almost just to get some extra cameo time in. But I'm like for what. Like the original theatrical cut doesn't have that scene. Like and it's a better scene. escape it's like he murders more people and it's a more of it shows what a big physical presence he is as he just overpowers all of these like law enforcement people and just escapes from the asylum versus this god awful rape scene that we have instead so Again, like it's just the inconsistency of the character himself as Michael Myers and the filmmaking of like, what are we supposed to be doing with this?

How are we supposed to feel about this movie, about this character? Like all of that's so inconsistent from one scene to the next. And it really, I think, needed to not be inconsistent, especially when, and I think for me, and I'm curious because we haven't really talked about it, but it's something that I think was maybe an inroad as to why we ended up talking about this movie. What do you think of Malcolm McDowell as Samuel? Because I think he's probably the best part of this movie.

That's what I was going to say. I've liked a lot of Malcolm McDowell movies. acted over the years again sometimes he makes some really weird decisions on his projects but this was one that i'm like you know it's gonna be hard to replace donald pleasance like that's one of those like what do you do like if i if i'm in the rob zombie city i'm like god you can't like you can't recast that like it's so iconic he hung around for so many movies even when it kept changing hands the one through line kept being loomis until that poor guy died like So like they kept working Loomis in. He was such a big part of that. They put him in the video game that just came out. They were like, here's a digital Donald Pleasence.

I mean, they worked him into. That last movie after he died. Like they found extra footage and then they created a mask and had someone else wear it so that they could reshoot stuff like. Off in the background. So you don't notice he's wearing a mask just to be able to work in an extra little bit of Loomis because we can't have a movie without Loomis as a character.

So again, lightsabers and Star Wars, Jedi and Star Wars. We can't have a Star Wars movie without lightsabers. It's like a sin. They beat that Loomis character to death. No offense, but they kind of did.

Until he was gone, they kept putting him in stuff. So then you get to this point and it's like, yeah, how do you recast that iconic role? Malcolm McDowell's probably as good as you're going to get. And I think he does a good job of... And I noticed that too.

They were doing comparisons of what was in the... theatrical cut versus this director's cut, which is 90% of the time what you find out there now. And they do add extra little moments with him in the director's cut. Like surprisingly, that's the part that makes him look like a better character. It's it's chopped down a little bit in theatrical cut so that like he just seems like he doesn't really care about it michael and then he wants to sell his stupid book but like there's extra little beats added in where he does genuinely seem like he cares about michael when he's younger And then by the end, he just kind of has to go through the running around trying to chase him down. I got to go buy a gun so I can shoot him in the last scene because that's what happens in the last scene.

Like, so again, it's following the connecting the dots essentially by the end of the movie. But the first half, I think that's maybe the most interesting and functional part of that part of the story is. That Loomis is actually there and like trying to make a difference. And I don't think he really does. But again, we don't address why he's not like he even tells him at that point.

Like, I feel like I'm I'm a failure. Like, I feel like I just can't reach you. And we never answer the question, well, why? Or like, what's the problem here? Or like, if he's just evil, let's pin that down and figure out what's going on.

But like, we never even get that really. We're just like, we've got Malcolm McDowell delivering a good performance. But like it's to no avail. It doesn't really give us anything by the end as far as that character development between the two of them. No, and that's, again, I think that's the ultimate problem with this movie is you have a pretty good performance from Malcolm McDowell as Loomis.

I think you're right. It's hard to fill the shoes of Donald Pleasance. I think Malcolm McDowell is a good enough actor to try. I think he does a good enough job. I think he does a better job than the actor does as fake Loomis in the Gordon Green movie.

Yeah, I don't know what that. That seemed like they just slapped it in there because you're supposed to have a Loomis character. I guess. We got to have him like fill the shoes. Yeah.

It's like you, you want somebody doing that. And I'm like, I'm sitting in the audience going, do we? Like, I really don't know that we do. You thought we did, but I don't think we have to. Have a Loomis every time.

What if we had a Loomis, but he goes crazy and he actually helps Michael Myers out. Wouldn't that be awesome? It's like, not really. Wouldn't that be great? Or how about just, write a new character that does something useful and interesting about that.

Well, and that's, I mean, that's the issue with the, the sequel, the Gordon green sequel or recall as well. Like it's, it's similar to this movie's problems. Like, I don't know why the events of this movie are like gospel text, or I guess the, the, the, the original movies goings on our gospel texts that have to be followed to like, I think that that kind of sentiment is gone now as film goers. I mean, there are things where people still want, like, well, I still want my Avengers Doomsday to be similar to Secret Wars, I guess. But I don't even know.

Like, you can go and watch and read those original things. I don't understand. Why does something else have to be that other thing that already exists? Like it already exists. You can go engage with it still.

That new thing existing doesn't negate the old things existence. I've said that for years. Yeah. I'm like, I don't understand why you need that. Yeah.

Yeah. It doesn't make any sense to me. Cause like, I appreciate that. Like, well, it worked before it's going to work again. That is not how that works.

Like that is the, like, that is, that is a childish and frankly, like idiotic way of thinking that I can't believe is what more or less like was the judgment calls that people were making. Like, well work before it'll work again. That doesn't work in a lot of industries. And this industry should not be one of them. Like, you know, the corporatization and like, I guess like formulaic creation of like, well, this thing can fit into a box.

Like, no, it shouldn't, it shouldn't be that. Like it should never have been that the fact that that's what this is, is so irritating for me as someone who wants something different now. And all anyone ever does is like, again, like for the last 10 plus years, it's been stuff like this, where it's just more of the same of what we've gotten before, but a little different. just different enough where it won't offend people. And it's like, yeah, no, like I don't even, I don't want the next Halloween movie to even like having Michael Myers might be too much, frankly, like I'm not even sure I want him in it. And then it's not even Halloween.

Then it's just something else. I just don't want any more of this. Cause I don't care. They've already done this so many times. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like if you don't have a read. Well, now it becomes such licensing, too. It's like, well, we have to hold on to the property. But I'm like, if you take that out of the equation, which I know sometimes they don't get to on the studio end of it.

But I'm just like, if you don't have a good reason to make another one of these, just don't don't keep cranking them out for the sake of saying you made another one. Like if you don't have a good idea. then it's not time to make one of them. If you give it another 10, 15 years and somebody comes up with some original way to do it or some different spin on it, that's actually good. Then like, okay, maybe that's reason enough to, but you don't, have to keep doing it just for the sake. Well, it's been five years.

We've got to have another one. Like let's, let's keep cranking them out. The new one and put a popcorn bucket with it or something. You can, now you can stay part of the pop culture conversation so much easier than you used to be able to, because you can reach people so much easier now. Like I know that there's so much more things to watch, which makes it harder to get people's attention, but people's attention can still be gotten the same way it used to.

It's still the same. Like people are still wanting the same things. People want to be entertained. People don't want to feel like they're wasting their time. which I believe is why like the short form content thing is such a thing. People don't want to feel like their time is being wasted.

And one of the ways to do that is have everything be short form. So you're not investing that much time. So you're not losing that much time. If something's not interesting. Yeah.

I'm not that angry. I only gave this four minutes of my life. So it's great. As opposed to an hour and a half. Cause I know people get angry.

If a movie has like a bad ending, they're like, well, that ruined the entire movie. And it's like, well, not really. I can see where you're coming from. I get it in a way, But at the same time, like it's not that art should not be that binary. I guess the only time art should be that binary is if it's a corporate product being made in a corporate studio system and it is existing solely, like you said, to keep the license.

And unfortunately, that keeps happening a lot of the time. That Fantastic Four movie, the original one, the Corman one, was being made for that singular reason, was so they could keep the rights. And Avi Arad said, let me buy you out, as opposed to letting that movie exist. That's why I love Corman, because he went, okay. He didn't even question it.

He was just like, well, normal people would be so invested. No, I put my heart and soul in this movie. I wouldn't sell it out. He was like, how much? all right, cool. I'm going to make five more movies.

I don't care. Everybody in the entertainment industry likes to think that there's something other than like carny folk, but I think we're all carny folk in a way, just like trying to figure out a way to put out our shingle, make a dime or two and do it in a way that feels less like selling out to the man than the next person. But like, for God's sake, like I, Yeah. Like Roger Corman, like that is the most like absurd thing to me. Like that's the most carny thing possible.

Like I'll never sell out, sells out and made you like, but at the same time, like I promised that. Yeah. Right. Like, well, that's what I mean. I think, I think there's that expectation.

If you make art that you're never going to sell out. And like, I don't prescribe to that theory. I'm not saying like if someone offered me a million dollars tomorrow for weirding way media, I would say no. But but at the same time, my point is like it's it's hard to say no to money. And Rob Zombie is no different than most of us in terms of like someone back to Brink's truck full of money up to his house and said, hey, make this Halloween movie.

And he did. And again, if somebody did that for me. Certainly myself. I'm assuming you as well, if they were like, hey, you get to make the next one. We're going to start a whole new chain here.

You're in charge of the reboot. Here's this money. Here's unlimited power to do whatever you want. And like, yeah, hell yeah, I would. Is it going to go horribly wrong?

Probably. It might not. I understand why he's like, yeah, I want to do that. I love this franchise when I was a kid. Sure, I want to take my shot at it.

Again, I wish you'd put a little more effort into the specifics of what you did, but I understand why. I would do the exact same thing. I would just hopefully try to find a better way to go about it. The other thing I was going to say about the continuing to just keep making this stuff and feeling like we have to, we're also getting further and further away. From these old And I'm using that.

That's a very relative term. But, you know, you look at something like the the original Carpenter Halloween. If you were around when that first came out, you're getting old. So it's like we're getting to a point where we're just making it for either these leftover old people that still want to complain when you make a new one of these. Are you talking about yourself?

Yeah, yeah. But I at least try to be open-minded about it, and I try to enjoy new things. But a lot of other people, they just want to complain when a new thing comes out because. It's not the old thing. I just want to see Halloween again.

That's all I want to see. I want to see the same thing that I watched in 78, but I want it to be on a theater screen and I can buy a popcorn bucket that looks like Michael Myers' head. So that's fine. I understand that. Again, I am that person.

But I'm I am looking ahead and I'm like, OK, so we're we're going to kick off eventually. So like as we're losing these generations and like we're aging out of like the people who cared about the originals, like what's coming? Are we are we leaving? Like is the is the handful of dorks that were little little kids when they saw the Rob Zombie Halloween? Are they taking over?

Are they going to be like, no, don't you touch my Rob Zombie Halloween? Like, is that going to be the new old school movie? And like. The carpenter when I don't think ever really gets forgotten. But do we lose that connection when we lose the people that were around for it when they were younger?

And like when we look ahead, like at these kids coming up now, because that's the thing. A lot of people like to complain about the up and coming generation. I think these kids are smart and like they they're experiencing things well. different than I ever did. So I think they're coming at it from a different angle that I don't even understand. But what are they going to be looking at?

Are they going to care about any of these Halloweens. You know, it's like if you take all the old people that are the ones complaining on the internet all the time out of the mix, do the new kids even care? Do they care that you're making another Halloween? Are they going to go see another Halloween? I don't know that they are.

Like if you brand it right and maybe make the right kind of four minute video that sucks men like maybe they'll go see it but like i don't know that they care about these properties with the the death grip that the older generation does about the stuff that they grew up caring about. And what's funny is i i will i will uh i will i will share a story with you that i feel like i don't have the prop with me but the prop would have been for your benefit and no one else's i went yesterday with my girlfriend to five below the like millennial dollar tree essentially Yeah, it's it's the cool version. Right. As if ever there was a thing, a cool discount store. But this one has toys.

So obviously this is the important that's the only people I know that go to five below. They go to get toys because they have specific runs of toys. I don't understand it because anytime I go there, I'm like, these aren't any cheaper. It's the same toys. No, it's not.

You can spend $ 70 at Five Below very easily on effectively garbage. It's the same crap at Target. It's volume buying at Five Below. That's all it is. So I was at Five Below yesterday and they have branded rubber ducks and they have these really small ones and they were in this box and they were on the Halloween aisle.

And brother, you would believe it or not, they had a Rob Zombie's Halloween box Michael Myers, rubber duck branded to the Rob zombie Halloween, which I think answers somewhat your question of, I think that this movie for a certain group of people is their Halloween. It is for some. We're not, we're not in that group because I think we still resonate with the original one, but I don't think that this movie is as kind of like shunned to the back of the box as you or I might think it is. I think this is more well received now than I feel like at the time. Yeah.

Everybody because it had like a horrible like I went back and looked like the Rotten Tomato was like terrible like people hated it when it came out it's divisive intentionally like you know but I feel like since then there's a whole new bunch of kids that have come along well again not even kids but like the middle run of the millennials grew up with that my age like that were just like this was my movie I saw this in the theater it was awesome there was all kinds of murder and blood and that kid was crazy and like they just take from it what they want and they enjoy it and that's That's fine. I wish them the best. I don't want people to not like what they like. I like what I like and I could give a rat's ass.

Who has problems with that? But at the same time, that's what I'm looking at with these new generations, though, is they don't even have that connection. So you look at the kids coming up now. And the reason that they know who Michael Myers is, is the spirit storm. They're not watching.

Half of them have probably never even. Watched one of those movies, but they know they have light up yard stakes that have Rob's their Michael Myers. Head on it. Like, so they know the mask. They know the image.

They know, Oh, he's the, again, it's almost come full circle. He's the boogeyman. Oh, he's the guy that kills you at Halloween. Like that's where it's become the, Is like it's just a brand that comes out at Halloween times and it's a mask that you can buy that could just be like Dracula when we were little kids which again still became a movie property but like it was just a public domain entity that like they slapped out a ton of like here's a Frankenstein that doesn't look anything like a licensed Frankenstein. Thank God it didn't look like Boris Korolev before we get sued.

So this one looks nothing like that. So kids have fun. And we did back in the day. And that's Michael Myers now. It's like, here's the knockoff Michael Myers mask that didn't pay for licensing.

Have fun kids. And they do. And he's a killer. And like, it's the, the hockey mask is just as identifiable. Now it's, it's a murder mask.

It has nothing to do with those movies that those kids haven't watched. It's what you put on when you go get candy every October. Like, so yeah, I think that connection is still there through the branding, through the marketing now. And I don't know that the movies have that much to do with it with the up and coming kids. Like it could if they attach themselves to the David Gordon Greenwin or whatever is next, like they could have a connection to the movies.

But I think it's just become so synonymous with Halloween, regardless of the movie part of it, that it's just it is its own entity now. He is the Halloween boogeyman. whether he ever intended to be for real or not. Well, and I think to your point, you know, I've, I mentioned early on in this episode, like there's this kind of modern day mythology or, you know, like religious texts of some of this and not everything gets to that point. Like Star Wars has, Marvel has, DC has, Dune has, like there's a lot of properties that do and there's a lot of properties that don't. And I think Halloween is one of those properties that has, it's kind of transcended everything else for the most part, other than a small, like, list of other things that I would consider to be its contemporaries, and those things are going to probably still exist in some capacity from here until eternity, just like Frankenstein, just like Dracula, but just in a lessened capacity moving forward because I think there will be more of...

Look, how many fucking Terrifier movies have we gotten? How many more are we going to get? Art the Clown is a modern-day Freddy Krueger, I would say, by his best comparative. Like, is there... Is there a great comparative for Michael Myers?

Is there a great comparative for Leatherface? I don't know. I honestly don't, I think in a lot of ways, like the new horror movies that come out don't rely on those kinds of things anymore. You know, Thanksgiving, that Eli Roth movie had the killer pilgrim was still waiting for the second one of his movie. He made a movie that came out that everybody roasted because it was a AI generative mess, I guess.

I don't know. I don't like Eli Roth, so it's a hard sell as it is to get me to go watch his movies. He's an uphill battle that everything about him, like, Again, I want to kind of support what he does, but at the same time, sometimes he does a lot of stuff I don't like. So I'm like, dude, come on, like make better movies. That's my issue.

Well, and I think Rob Zombie makes better movies than Eli Roth does. Like in terms of just like, I don't know what I vibe with more of the movies. Like Eli Roth's just kind of very much like Max Landis, like one of those types where it's like, I'm very important. Take me seriously. And it's like, I decided I'm very important from day one.

So yeah, you have to put- And nobody is going to disagree. Yeah, nobody. Well, and he did. He came out of nowhere and made himself a name almost immediately. But that's the thing I will say.

I will give credit to, I've always said this from the beginning too. what little I have, you know, just good to say about Rob Zombie. I will say, I think visually he is an amazing director. Like I think, do not give him a screenplay. Like for God's sake, I've said this for years, pair him up with a writer, like get him a writer that can be his leg, just the right hand man to everything he's doing and get somebody talented to take over the writing on all of his movies and and give him a good DP and let him, because he can visually, and we'll get into it next time, but I think next movie has some amazing shots and some great visual concepts that are all straight out of Rob Zombie's head. And even going back, House of a Thousand Corpses, that's why I like that one so much.

There are some really creative shots. There are, again, the whole plot is just stolen from basically one other movie. But like it's the least original idea. But the way he does it is really interesting. And he has all these interesting visuals and some very creative shots.

And like so I think as a filmmaker, as a functional director, he's got talent. I just hate what he does with a lot of the storytelling part of it. So just for God's sakes, give him a writer and let him step away from that area. He won't do it, I'm sure, because he likes it being Rob Zombie's. with an apostrophe there and like being the sole creator of all these things. But I'm like, yeah, but you need to learn your strengths and your weaknesses.

And like the storytelling ain't it, man? Like just go shoot some really cool scenes because you can do that. No, I totally agree. I think it's like Tarantino in editing. It's like you need someone who's able to say no to you, tell you no and make that decision and know that they're making the right decision regardless of how grand and great your geniuses you know in tarantino's case i mean that's i i can't imagine what it's like to interact with someone like that where you have to push back as hard as you do and again you're pushing back on someone who you know you go to a common film person and they'll sing the praises of quentin tarantino until they're blue in the face like he's someone who is widely beloved by a lot of people you know like rob zombie maybe not so much but the people that love rob zombie love rob zombie and they love oh they do for the reason that you just said, he'll never not be the one doing his own thing is because he has a unique voice that is his own, that he, I don't know if he's the only one that can do it because other movies exist like his, because his movies are a, an amalgamation, a simulacrum as it were of other things, just like Tarantino, like an exploitation film was not created by Rob Zombie.

I mean, it's most of those filmmakers of that generation. Like it's that post nineties version of like everybody that did that. was just cobbling movies together from other things they'd seen before. If it wasn't Tarantino, kind of Rodriguez, and even more so as he went on and just made kids movies, but like even your Kevin Smith and your Rob Zombie, like all of these guys that came up at that point, it's just references of old movies worked in some to varying degrees. Some of them work better at writing. Someone worked better at filmmaking and visuals, but like they were all, it's just what came of that generation.

Like it, It's a different beat than like the, the seventies. It's different than your, your Spielberg and your Lucas and your Coppola's. And like, you know, you, they had a different vibe from that group. And then you get to this is sort of like passing the torch to this next generation. And it's all just a cobbled together thing of like pop culture that we grew up with.

And it's something about that generation because we sat in front of the TV from the time we were old enough to, and we watched every episode of Gilligan's Island and, And we knew every song that came on MTV. And like it just we were immersed in pop culture from the time we were sat in front of that television and it never went away. And so we're we became those filmmakers. And then as the older fans, we're also the ones that have that same death grip on like. No, these are my things.

I have to have these things and all my references to the things that came from that thing when I saw it when I was a kid and. I don't know. It's as one of those people, again, I love my nostalgia, but I also feel like when you've gone too far in, it becomes a bad thing. It starts to take away from the overall artistic value of what you're doing. No, and I completely agree.

I feel like as someone who engages with a lot of film, the last thing I want is to watch something that's just a poor facsimile of something I've already seen and that's you know for me I think that's why this Rob Zombie movie is the least interesting of the two and possibly the most the most uninteresting film that he ever did is this film because in so many ways like it is just a remake of a better a reboot I guess yeah yeah this really is just a reboot of a much better movie it's like you know you're not you're not going to succeed when you're rebooting one of the most well regarded slasher films of all time even now Halloween is a film that's been aped since the day it came out. And you have the unenviable task, which is why John Carpenter said, don't remake it, make your own thing, of making a film that shares the title of that film.

And I think that's where David Gordon Green maybe got it a little bit more... kind of on the nail on the head than Rob Zombie did, which is you can call your movie Halloween. You should just do something different, though, if you're going to call it that. And it's the only one of these to call itself Halloween other than this one. And I think that this one is saddled with the, you know, the name Halloween more so than that David Gordon Green one is because Rob Zombie, I guess, really felt the need to re-litigate old news. Like, we know already.

Like, unless you're doing something with it that we haven't seen... Don't relitigate the past. It's not going to benefit anybody. It's really not. You're telling part of the story we haven't seen.

That's fine. But don't relitigate the parts we've already seen because unless you really think you can do a better job, I doubt that you can, especially with a movie of the high profile that is the original Halloween. Well, and David Gordon Green falls in the same category as their J.J. Abrams. Like he does the exact same thing with the Star Wars reboot.

You know, you can call it in quotation. You can call it a sequel and you can work in your old guy character to make it a sequel. But at the same time, it hits the beats of that first Star Wars movie. when it needs to like to to perfection so much so that it's kind of a successful version but it's so unoriginal in so many ways that I'm just like I I respect you for knowing how to make that well but again you don't really get points for originality because you stole everything from this movie in 77 you know it's like you don't you don't really get points for doing anything different but but you found a really good way to repackage it and put your own little flair on it and call it a new movie. And it worked.

They made a ton of money off of it. And that's essentially the horror version of what David Gordon Green did. And I guess that's what Rob Zombie was trying to do. I don't know. That's the thing, I think, for me that I did struggle with as we kind of bring this episode to a close.

I struggled with whether or not Rob Zombie actually wanted to do something different or if he was just like, I'm doing this thing. I'm doing it my own way, but I'm doing the thing that someone else has done. I'm just going to add some more kind of fluff and nonsense to it, but I'm not really doing anything different. I wonder if he thinks he did something different enough here. To warrant the kind of success that David Gordon Green got, because I will say David Gordon Green did do something different enough where I could be like, it's if this is a reboot, I'm not going to say that that movie is a reboot.

It's a requel because I think it shares more in line with a sequel. then it does a reboot but it doesn't throw out what's come before it completely it throws out about a half of what's come before it which is fine like but it doesn't throw everything out this movie throws everything out like literally that is the entire point and if this had been successful enough we would have seen halloween three four five six seven eight that weren't rob zombies. Yeah that's what i was gonna say even without rob zombie because he won it out by two enough to stop screw himself out of an extra movie paycheck. But he was like, I don't care. I want away from these guys. I want to get out of here.

But if it, yeah, if it was worth the effort and made enough money on that second movie, then yeah, they would have easily handed this. I mean, they tried to on the second one and they just, no one could work with the Weinsteins. But like if, if they had the chance, you know, they would have been, they would have just slapped some other new director's name over the title and been like, here's part three, let's keep this money train rolling. But yeah, it didn't deliver on that second one enough to make this work. I think the first one had potential.

It could have kept rolling if the second one had been as successful as the first or more so, they definitely would have kept going. But it was enough that it killed it and then like, well, we just need a couple more years and we can reboot this thing again. Right. Which which I guess horror is the genre where you can get away with that the most. Or if you're rebooting Star Wars or not Star Wars, Spider-Man.

Excuse me. I guess it's really Spider-Man. He's like the only superhero where it's like every two years we can reboot him. Batman and everything else takes a while. Like we technically don't have a rebooted Batman yet.

Like we have Robert Pattinson. They kept doing it, though. If I watch somebody shoot his parents in an alley one more damn time. I know. That's the thing.

I don't need any more of those origin stories from anybody anymore. Spider-Man. We all get it. Batman. We all know him.

It's fine. Fucking Freddy Krueger or Michael Myers or even... fucking you know what even Pennywise at this point like you know I'll give that TV show credit for being something weird and different but the only reason I kind of vibe with it is because it's weird and different and not just those movies again like yeah it's covering stuff that has not been covered anywhere else But I don't need to see things again that I've already seen before, because unless you are going to somehow reinvent the goddamn wheel, which good luck if you want to be a competitor to Walmart or Target or Amazon at this point in your lifetime of doing things, it's just an uphill battle I don't think is worth taking. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know if there's enough that you can do that's going to make it different in any way without just getting grouped in with the rest of the reboot rebranding. Like it has to be like a radically different thing, which again is what I would expect someone like Rob Zombie to do. And then he totally ended up not at all. Like, so unless you're. Going to go a weird direction with it, which I, again, that, that worries me as well because people.

Go an entire wrong direction sometimes. So it's, it's such a tightrope walk of like, where do I go with this? Who do we give it to? Like, what what are they going to do with it? And then how do we fix it when they go horribly wrong and tear up our franchise and then we have to rebuild it again?

Just to hand it to somebody else after that. That's how you get Star Wars Rises of Skywalker. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You just, well, you have to, everything is just backpedaling.

Like once you, one, that's also a huge problem, I think, with films made now, specifically studio films, franchise films. is we're listening to the audience and shut up. Like I'm, that's me. I understand. But at the same time, I don't expect like Rob Zombie to change the next thing he makes because I'm bitching about it. You know, it's just like, I, I'm just giving.

My opinion and I have issues with some of the things he does, but I don't assume that what I say. should change the specifics of a franchise unless you're going to hand it to me, which again, back that truck up here. I'll, I'll give it a shot. It ain't going to be better, but I'll give it a shot. But yeah, you, you see, that's what kept happening with all of these movies. I mean, Star Wars was the worst of those, like every movie they would.

I mean, even when Lucas was involved, he would change his mind because of what people were bitching about on the internet. He's like, Oh, okay, I'll get rid of this. I'll change this. And like, Then he handed it off to Disney. Disney's equally as bad about it.

And they're just like, oh, you guys don't like this? Okay, we won't do this. Change the director midway into the shoot? Okay, we'll do that. Screw it.

We don't care. Like, they're just scrambling to please everybody. And I'm like, that's not how art works. Like. if you're the artist and specifically you're the person slapping your name above the title in these movies, John Carpenter, that like you should come at it with your concept and what you want to do. And ideally you don't have producers and studios that are trying to beat the life out of you and take all that away from you.

Usually that's how it goes. But ideally you don't have that and you deliver your like focused version of what artistically you want to say with this movie again this is all very idealized because that almost never happens but that ideally that's how you want art to work is like you want to come at it with an opinion and with a your own artistic take and you want to follow through with that and deliver that to people and you know you go to a little gallery show and you see somebody hang their painting up there and there's plenty of people that are going to look at me like, oh, that's terrible. And if they're a, you know, a seasoned artist, they're like, well, good, move along. I don't care what you think.

So like you can do that on a smaller scale. It's so much harder to do that when you've got these hundreds of millions of dollars behind this franchise. But again, artistically, ideally, that's what we want to do. It's like we want to have someone who With a vision and they come together and they make the thing they want to make. And then if you don't like it, well, go find another movie.

Who cares? Like it's it's it's how it should be. But that's not how I do. Well, and I think it's, you know, to go back to something I talked about earlier this year, The Bride. I don't know why they spent all that money on that movie when they knew they were going to make any of that money back.

And that's and that's to go to something like this. I looked at this film and, you know, the budget on this film is a normal number. It's not even for that time. It's not even high for the time. It's like I expected more.

Yeah, right. And yet this movie made, you know, for almost almost five exits budget, which is great, especially for a horror movie. Yeah. And that I think I think it speaks volumes, I think, in the long run to something like this is. staying power as its own thing within pop culture that i think the success of the movie and the kind of i wouldn't say singularness and what it is but because there's no other thing with this this is it like there's only these two so if you want to watch these two there is nothing else like and frankly like the the other one halloween 2 is so unlike this one that you could just watch this one. And if you just want to watch this one and you just vibe with this one, I actually kind of get it.

It's not for me. But if this is the version of Halloween you grew up on, you could do worse. You could do the David Gordon Green one, which I think is just it's just it's lazy. This movie is, you know, as problematic as some of the things are with this movie and the problems I do have with this movie we've now talked about. I think this movie is less lazy than the David Gordon Green one, because the David Gordon Green one is exactly what J.J.

Abrams did with Star Wars, which is just it's been gone for so long now. And kind of the the public sentiment is so, I guess, ready and willing to reengage with it that whatever you put out, as long as it was like not completely a pain in terms of enjoying it, like you're not putting out something that has to be enjoyed in a way that's like you know, it'll only on IMAX or someone, some fucking streaming platform. Like this is a movie made for the masses. When that Halloween movie came out, the David Gordon green, what that movie made like, Oh my God, so much money. Yeah.

It made a lot. It was like hand over fist, right? It, it made, it was on a budget of $ 10 million less than this film and made $ 260 million. And that's why these keep getting me. Right.

But my point is like, people were ready for another Michael Myers movie. It had been, you know, like, let's call it 10 years since a Michael Myers film had come out. Because, hey, Halloween 2 comes out in 2009. Halloween, the David Gordon Green film, comes out in 2018. So, that's, it's nine years.

I think that's, like, close to, if not the longest time between films. I mean, definitely of that original run, they were every couple of years. Right. And so, like, the public was ready. Like, I don't foresee... if nightmare on elm street does in fact come out and is rebooted that movie will probably make money whether or not it's very good it'll probably still make some semblance of money and if it's made for the right budget and cheap enough it will undoubtedly make money if you make a film for 300 million dollars and are surprised when it a niche art house film starring christian bale and jesse buckley is that her name that's right um the two of them as i love her as an actress but like the bride of frankenstein fucking really like And then to be like, well, we don't understand why this movie didn't make any money.

Like, no, you did. You threw someone in the pool and tied their hands and feet together and said, I don't understand why they can't swim. Like, me either. It would not have anything to do with the fact that you tied their hands and feet together. And giving these directors massive budgets to just go apeshit with is not helping anyone.

And it's definitely not helping the creativity. Because creativity comes from a non... financially motivated place. Often creativity is from the opposite of financially motivated things. So many decisions made about films that end up being the right choice are not the creative choice at the time that people wanted to make, and especially not the financially creative choice. Al Pacino was not originally supposed to be in The Godfather because he was not the popular, financially viable choice.

And yet he's intrinsically linked now with The Godfather. And he is someone who has made a career off of playing a role that's as well known and kind of pop culture period as Michael Corleone is, but he was not the popular choice at the time. So like so much of that is baked into this. That's just hard to navigate because again, like there are people that grew up with David Gordon Green's Halloween and that's their Halloween that they saw. And that's same with this movie.

I just think that ultimately, if we're talking about a product that is meant to be enjoyed, that has a more interesting role, long-term value to it this i think is at least doing something marginally more different than we're just going to ignore half of the halloween movies and do our own thing sort of but not really but not really because again if you even look at it you can't even look at it in a vacuum all of a sudden michael myers is so brutal and over the top what is the reason behind that other than the rob zombie movie being successful and you guys are aping that Right. That's what I yeah, we did a whole episode on that when it came out. And I was like, that's my issue with this weird thing is like you that David Gordon Greenwood, you pretend like all the others don't exist.

But if you go back, that's also what's weird about this one, too, is like within the first 15 minutes, we've already killed more people than in that first movie. Like they're at least the people out on the Halloween streets that night. I mean, he only kills three people out there. You can count the guy with the jumpsuit or whatever, maybe. But I mean, little kid version of him has already knocked out three people in the first 15 minutes before he finishes murdering the rest of his family.

So like the kill count is already huge, but it also like takes into account all of those other Michael Myers movies where he continued to get more brutal than The kill count got bigger and bigger in every sequel. And so you look at, okay, well now we're going to pull all that middle part out. That didn't count. It's just that dude from the first movie. And then now, and I'm like, well now.

Okay, now all you have is a guy who killed three or four people one night. He had a bad night and killed a few people. And now he's like 60. So he's done nothing through all these years. But now all of a sudden he's super brutal and is just walking around just smashing people's heads and slicing them open.

I'm like, why? Why all of a sudden did this old man who's been sitting in a home essentially for the last several decades just decide to go off one night and murder way more people than he ever did in that first movie? Like, it makes no sense. It's just like, You're building on the legend of Michael Myers that happened in all of those sequels. That's where we built up this.

He's a killing machine. He's evil. He can't be stopped. He's supernatural. Like all those things came from the sequel.

None of that's in that first movie. He's a real guy and he kills a couple of people. And there you go. I think that's all that happened. In that Carpenter movie.

All of the other stuff that we built the legend around came through the bad sequels and the Michael Myers that happens in this. Movie and like all of the stuff that you see in the spirit story. You know, it's like we created the legend of Michael Myers and all of that stuff. So trying to pick up where you left. Off in the David Gordon Green movie makes absolutely no sense because that's not the same character.

It can't be the same character. No, because that same character would not have been entertaining. And the way that they opened that second movie is straight out of these Rob Zombie. Where he's just murdering these firefighters, cutting their heads off and cutting their hands off and jamming saws into their faces. Rob Zombie is creaming himself at how violent and brutal they were allowing him to be.

Because these movies comparatively don't even... There are some kills in these movies that get close, but those David Gordon Green movies are even more brutal than these movies. Which again makes no sense because he's an old man. He should go to grab one of them and be like, oh, I'm a hip. Hold on now.

I get it here. He's the old man. I understand here. It makes perfect sense here. The thing I will give this entire two film kind of, series is at least i understand why michael is doing what he's doing and they don't try to redeem him as a character but he's brutal and i get.

It they don't really answer the question why but at least at least we're given like at least yeah it's like well yeah he had this horrible life up till now so i guess this is where it leads you the why and whatever you just shrug that off Is there a good answer? I guess that's the question. Like, not really. So the answer doesn't matter. So don't ask the question.

I mean, in the real world, we've spent how many years trying to figure out all these real world serial killers and you've got an entire industry of of there's some of these weirdos out here that have podcasts. I don't know if you've heard about them, but the true crime podcast is its own crazy world. And all that does is retell these stories. Has it ever figured out why in a way that's actually like satisfying? Like it'll tell you why in the like, here's the police report.

Here's the like, they're having an affair. They wanted money. Like there's a reason sometimes. But like not the internal in your mind, let's figure out the reason evil exists kind of a thing. And you're not going to really.

So you have to figure out what it. Is you're trying to do in your movie, in your podcast, in your TV show. Like what is it you're trying to figure out when you start trying to tackle. A serial killer? Because like I don't know that you're going to get to an answer that is satisfying for anybody really.

Does Clockwork Orange get to an answer? The other four. that this one is kind of also aping. It's like, what is evil? Like, it doesn't it doesn't it ultimately the people that are the ones that are telling these stories are unreliable narrators and they can't be believed. If you are a prisoner on death row, I feel like like believing you like, yes, OK, maybe.

But like, also, why? Like, as long as it's got Malcolm McDowell in it. And you can watch lots of TV. I really just want to watch lots of TV all day long. Can you get me one of them chairs?

I like that chair. Maybe we're taking the wrong message from this movie. He's got a cool recliner. He's got a multi channels, picture and picture options here, man. I like this.

I just want to go to prison and be like Michael Myers, I guess. That's it. You know, and that's the thing. Like you, you mentioned already, like the whole, like true crime podcaster angle. And, and, That Gordon Green movie does that and it's whatever.

It's not very well done. No, it makes no sense. It's an afterthought. It's a complete afterthought. I saw the trailer and went, of course there's podcasters.

It makes sense for when it came out and what it is. I was right at the part where podcasts were going to get to their zenith in the next three years after that movie comes out, but they don't do anything with it. It's like this movie in a way. There are some great ideas and some of the ideas are expounded upon But I think it's one of those things where you need to cut some of the ideas out, streamline the movie and expand upon the things you have already expanded on a little further. Don't just keep introducing things and then not going anywhere with them.

That's a problem. And they can't even pin down the basics sometimes. And this is more of just like your basic screenwriter. Like you guys need to like give this another pass because... That was some of the issue with this one, but I had way more issues with that David Gordon Green.

That first one where it's like everything happens just by happenstance. Just, you know, he. how did he happen to get to the same gas station where the same podcasters that we just met were like, it's all convenient for the person sitting in the audience. Like, oh yeah, I know that person. And he just got out of there and I want to see him murder somebody. Hey, he can murder them.

Like it all makes sense as an audience. I want to see these things happen. But from a storytelling standpoint is like, how did he get there? And why of all people would he end up killing this person who was just interviewing him a little while ago when they just drove how far? And like, and then he gets to the neighborhood and I'm like, he's just wandering around the neighborhood.

He could be anywhere in the neighborhood. So how did he meet this guy who was just hitting on Laurie Strode? And like, it's just convenient for the sake of convenient. And it's like, we have a little of that with this one, but I feel like that movie is like even worse about that. So all of these, just like you guys, once again, even if you don't want to do it, Give it to somebody else.

Give them another pass to be like, are there logic problems? Like, how does Michael Myers know to find his sister? Like, that's a basic one that I feel like if you gave it to somebody else, somebody should have been like, yeah, I don't understand this part. Can you, is it sense of smell? Is that what we're going by here?

Because that's all I got. In this movie. So like, it's just basic logic issues that I'm like, they really have to address if they're going to put this much time and energy and money into making these things. Well, and that's why I, again, we go back to the, just in for me, just do something different. Just do something else.

Just make it, make it its own thing. Make it something that is not what you would expect going into a Halloween movie. And I think that that would have been a much more success. I mean, again, like you might've had a more successful movie. I don't know if it would have made any more money.

But I think the critics would have had a different feel and time with the movie. And I don't think the critics are ever going to have a good time with a Rob Zombie movie. I don't think he cares. Yeah, it's not made for them. I applaud him for that.

And the film's not even made for people like us because it's clear to me that the two of us are not necessarily... the typical Rob Zombie fans. I, like yourself, like his music a lot more than I like his movies. And the only movie of his that I really like is that Munsters movie, and that's the one I've seen the most. And it's very funny to me because it's the one that people were like, doesn't that look like a piece of shit? And I was like, I mean, I guess, but I'll watch it.

It's a Rob Zombie movie. I have low expectations. Shocking, I know. I saw it and went, man, that looks like something Rob Zombie would love. Yeah.

Like, it's right up his alley. And you know what? The production on it's great. The casting, Cherry Moon Zombies, actually not terrible. It's fine.

It's way better than anyone would give it credit for. And it's not nearly the kind of like, oh, my God, this is an affront to cinema. Like, this ruined my childhood. I'm like, if you were watching this as a child, you're probably dead now. So it's 80s.

It's reruns at best. And then you were watching them on Nick at night. So shut up. This isn't your property either. Like you.

This is just pop culture. And he was more attached to it than you are, probably. So, yeah, I don't know. People got really upset about that. And I was like, I don't know.

I wasn't in a big rush to see it, but I saw it eventually. And I was like, yes, it's just like I wasn't excited about it, but it was I wasn't offended by it either. I'm like, it's fine. I like Daniel Roebuck. He's awesome.

He did a great job of casting that role. He's so good at that. To me, I don't love either of the other two in those roles. But the Daniel Roebuck of it is so good at being grandpa that I'm like, he makes up for all of it. I'm like, he's so good at that.

And you can tell he loves doing that. And that's the same thing with Rob Zombie. That's the one thing that comes through in that movie. I feel like he genuinely loves that property. More so than this.

I feel like this, he's trying... He's he's trying to make it work. And I think he did love Halloween, but like, it still doesn't feel like he's at home or maybe he's just a little more schooled. He's made several more movies since then. So like maybe now he's just more comfortable with it and just leaned into what he loved.

And like, that's why that monsters one is a watchable thing. At least. Yeah. For me, Halloween reminds me of David Fincher getting involved with alien three. It's like, you know, this, this guy is being hired because of what he does.

Not anything else. Like they, he's the hot commodity at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if Curry Barker, Kane Parsons is given something similar to this. It's like, you can do whatever you want. I guess one of them's making a Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie, right?

I was going to say, the Zack Greger of it all. I mean, we watched that. He makes a couple of independent, super original movies. What's the next thing they hand him? here's a huge franchise based on a video game. Go to town.

And see how the public has been reacting to that. Roasting him into the ground. And I don't even know, you know, you and I, uh, to spill the beans are going to be covering that movie. And it's funny that it's funny that there's kind of a weird through line between this movie, the next movie in that movie. Cause Zach, Zach Krieger is a great example of someone who, yeah, made his bones doing something.

And they're just like, well, wait, You know what's successful? Something entirely different. Something that's been pre-branded that you have nothing to do with. We'll make your prequel to Weapons? But please make this Resident Evil movie for us.

We've been looking for a director for it for years. And it's like, okay, whatever, fine. And that's that. Same lesson of like, so you're going to give me all this money to make a thing that I want to kind of make anyway. Okay.

I can't blame him. Like, I thought it was a weird fit when they announced it, but I was like, do I want to watch it? Yeah, I kind of do actually. I still think it's a weird fit. Me personally.

I saw the trailer. It looks well made. So I'm like, it looks promising, but do I know it's going to hit? Like, not necessarily. I think it's got more promise because I have more respect for him as a.

Filmmaker, but... That doesn't mean anything. I've watched some great filmmakers fumble movies like you wouldn't believe. So who knows? It's like you got to wait till you get in the theater and see what's there.

Well, I mean, that's the thing. You go into a Rob Zombie Halloween movie, and I think it comes... Its reputation precedes it. It comes with certain baggage. And I think that that baggage is well-deserved.

Like I said, I don't think Rob Zombie wants you to feel any other way about his films than, oh, this is my thing. Like you said, Rob Zombie's Halloween. That's my thing. I'm not saying he's possessive, but he wants you to know it is his thing, and it is undoubtedly his thing. Just like Kevin Smith and Quentin Tarantino.

Like what they make is so intrinsically them that it's hard to divorce the two things. Which is funny because they're just made up of other things that happened before that they cobbled together. But they all want it to be them. Yeah. That's it.

They all want to be so stamped with their name and their identity and their shared universe of their own movies. And like, at the same time, it's, it's the least original concept a lot of the time. But, but again, I, I like a lot of the films that they've made. So it's like it's hit and miss. You just got to have faith that they do a good job.

And occasionally they do. And that's, you know, that's the thing. Rob Zombie hasn't made nearly as many movies as either one of them has. And, you know, the lack of movies that he's made, I think, makes this and the next film that we're talking about stand out so much more because he doesn't have that big of a sample size. It's a rather small body of work still.

And, you know, I'm glad that there are a group of people that resonate with this movie as hard as they do and that this is their Halloween. Because, you know, so many of those other Halloween movies are just sequels to the original movie. This is the first time where they were like, let's do something again that is its own thing and see if we can make something of that. And I applaud them for that. I don't think they went far enough.

And I think that's kind of our big one of our big takeaways here, I think, which is, again, a weird thing to level against a Rob Zombie movie. But. my hope is on the next episode where you and I come back to talk about Halloween 2 technically a remake of the original but not in any capacity not at all like it takes place in a hospital for like a little bit of it and that's about it maybe we'll get to talk then and I know we will about creative decision making and what that looks like in terms of comparatively because this movie yeah just doesn't go far enough which is a weird thing to level against a Rob Zombie film. I think you actually did a great lead in to next movie when you were describing this movie of what it should have been.

And you were given the breakdown of what was missing from this movie and how it needed to just throw all that out the window and do its own thing and create what he wanted to create and, you know, just be something interesting all on its own. And realistically, again, what I remember of part two, that's what it does. So I do want to come back next time and dig into that because I feel like I feel like he's way more successful when he goes off the tracks and does whatever the hell he wants. That still it still has his spin. It still has all the pieces of stuff, you know, all these weird little things that he's into.

You see like the music that's in this when it's coming up and like the It definitely has this vibe of all the stuff that Rob Zombie's into, but it doesn't feel so hacky. It doesn't feel like reheated version of a thing we've already seen. It goes off the rails and does its own weird thing. And like that's that's kind of what I want to revisit when we get to the next movie. So until that episode, which is coming to you next week, which is when Brian's show is launching over at weirdingwaymedia.com. where can people find you and your show, Brian?

Um, if you're not just hitting up the, the whole weirding way rundown, uh, I guess the other home base, uh, we, we do have our own basic website. So movie meltdown.com. It's not overly fancy because I'm the one putting it together and, I have to kind of redesign it to go with this. So it's still, you know, clunky at times. But it does give you the links to everything you need and some little window into the stuff that we've done over the years.

We've done a lot of different stuff and different types of episodes. I will say that as you dig into it, you may have to hit a couple of them to start to pick up a theme. Because depending on, I sort of rotate out the cast and we have different people that show up for different types of episodes. And we do. since we're talking about Halloween, we do have a running theme that is a horror club, more or less, that we get together and we talk about horror movies every time. But those are not every episode.

So like you got to kind of rotate out a few times and get to one of those and then you'll see how that works. And then there's other ones. We just went to one where we actually went to a convention. And like, so it's us just sort of hanging out after the convention. It's the most unstructured of any of our episodes.

So they all kind of have a different vibe. And there's the new one that I just came up with that's just talking with guests. And like, we've had some really interesting guests on there that are involved in the film industry. So it's like, that's, that's kind of a different spin I've put on it just this past year and creating that new sort of spinoff show that's in there. And that's all just kind of in the mix.

So you kind of have to hit a few of them and get the vibe for each one and see what each one has to offer. But yeah, there's a lot there. Well, and like Brian mentioned, you should check his show out. It is the kind of latest show that we are bringing into the Weirding Way family, and it is launching on our Spreaker page and feed on September 16th, so a week from today. So you should definitely save that on however you save things and make sure to like, rate follow his show movie meltdown this show the culture cast and all weirding way media shows on iTunes then Spotify in that order because that's how it helps us out the most and then patreon.com slash culture cast patreon.com slash projection booth patreon.com slash Richard Haddam all those are places you can go to interact with the respective patrons of the people that work on this show or guest on this show Brian thank you so much for joining me and being amenable to the idea of revisiting a Rob Zombie film As I said, I knew I would have some issues, but I knew I'd have a lot to say.

And I'd say at this point, yes, we've had a lot to say. Yeah, more than the runtime of the film, which is surprising given the film's two hours long. Not the first time I have done that, let me tell you. No, same, but not with this movie I would have ever thought. No, I kind of figured that's where we were going.

Well, maybe we'll have more to say on the next episode when we both come back to talk about Rob Zombie's Halloween 2. We'll catch you on that episode.