L.A. Confidential

Yeah, weird way. There might be spoilers. There might be spoilers. There might be spoilers. So I don't know why it took me so long to watch this movie on dress, because this movie is right up my alley in terms of the kinds of things that I like to watch.

Maybe not the kinds of things I necessarily have read a whole lot of, but this is definitely the kind of movie that I enjoy, not just because it has a fantastic cast, but it's well written and well directed and set in a time and place that is so stylistically interesting that you can't help but fall in love with the atmosphere and the way the movie opens obviously kind of sells it on that. But I'm kind of shocked that it's taken me, you know, till I was thirty three to see this movie. No more shocked than I. This is when I told you, when I asked you if you'd seen this film, and you're like, you hadn't seen it, I just thought, how is that possible? Are You're an incredibly well viewed person.

But I think this is the case with everyone. We all have these blind spots, and it's kind of a blessing that we do, because then you can have this moment of being turned onto a film that's been right under your nose forever, and then you watch it and it immediately becomes I don't know if this has become one of your favorites, but it immediately jumps into the rank of films that you consider to be ones you would like to go back to. Well, what's crazy is I've seen almost everyone in this movie in other things, obviously, but I would go out on a limb and say, most of the actors in this movie, this is the best thing I've ever seen them. Yeah, I mean there are a couple. There are a couple actors in particular, Guy Pierce being one of them.

Where I mean I've seen him in plenty of things, and I'm not saying he's not a fantastic actor. He is. He just kind of tends to get lost in the shuffle sometimes. And because he's i mean recently it's playing like a just like a villain or again like a sidecar character. In this movie, he's the main character, and he is so good and so compelling and such an interesting character throughout and the character that's I mean, the primary you know protagonist of the movie, but I would say that there are three.

But he every time he's on screen, he just I don't know. Something about him in the way he carries himself is so interesting and so different from anything I've ever seen him do. Even Yeah, you'd think if you didn't know history, you'd think that he was the breakout star right from this film. Totally. Oh no, completely that no, that is That's what I was trying to think about, you know, on this episode of The Culture Cast where I'm still your host, Christashio and I'm joined for the first time on this show, but like the fifth or sixth conversation we've had, uh but to the first time on this show.

Thank you Patreon for something other than money for once, and my my friend and soon to be yours the host of the World is wrong andros Jones, Well, it's great to be on the Culture Cast. I've listened to many episodes and so it's an honor to be here. Before we get into the movie and go further into La Confidential, I wanted to give you a moment to tell the Culture Cast audience a little bit about your show that you work on. Yes, I host a podcast called The World Is Wrong, which is an extremely positive podcast celebrating films and film artists. The world is wrong about so films and film artists that we are often told are bad, are despicable, or we're never told about it all.

And I started the show with my co host Brian Connolly and am continuing it in different ways on my own over the last year and a half. We recently did the whole season on the filmmaker Paul Williams, who is not to be confused with the songwriter Paul Williams, or the rock critic Paul Williams, or the architect Paul Williams, hence the name of the podcast season being the other Paul Williams. This Paul Williams was a really important director at the beginning of what is current what is usually referred to as New Hollywood, and directed several films. He gave John Voyd his first role in a film called Out of It, which is fantastic. Anyway.

You can find out all that about him and his work in our fourth season of the World Is Wrong podcast, But most episodes are devoted to an individual film, some to individual film artists, but mostly to individual films, and I encourage people to check out the website The World is wrongpodcast dot com. I just go through and find a film that you ideally, find a film that you love that you are sick of hearing people talk shit about, and enjoy us talking lovingly about that much maligned film. So that's the World Is Wrong. And what's funny is when you and I were in this Patreon movie podcaster group, we were having to share our shows, and you had shared an episode of your show for us to listen to, and I listened to some of that episode, but then I actually went and listened to one about the Two Jakes, which feels a little kind of ironic given what we're talking about now on this episode.

Oh yeah, this is very too jakesy, I mean very Chinatowny. This is definite in fact when we talk about it. I think one of the things this film does really well is wide into Chinatown territory without feeling like they're stepping on the toes of that film or cribbing from it. Basically a very similar film but done very differently. And I think that's one of the successes of La Confidential, because a lot of films when they venture into the La noir thing end up somehow having to be compared favorably or unfavorably to Chinatown, whereas until I started preparing for this podcast, I never even really thought of Chinatown in relationship to La Confidential.

Well, and I think there's and again this might be me just kind of projecting, but I feel like there's also a character in this movie who the actor who plays him looks surprisingly like Jack Nicholson. There's a character in the movie where I'm like, hmm, that's kind of interesting. He looks kind of like older Jack Nicholson who I the Darryl Sanden who plays Leland buzz Meeks. He has like the slicked back hair and everything, and they're like, well, he's like an ex LAPD cop who he's like all corrupt now, And I was like, I don't think it's supposed to be, like, you know, Jake Giddy's from uh, the Two Jakes in Chinatown. But it was just weird because he kind of looks like Jack Nicholson.

Hmm, Okay, I think it's just the hair and the nose. I think he's sort of like a much uglier Jack Nicholson. Well, I mean, yeah, that's the other thing. Yeah, I mean no offense, and I think he gets cast as like uglier kind of like that's sort of the way that that sort of different kind of casting for that, Like he's he's a he has a face made for a heavy that's exactly exactly. So, not to get into too much of a digression, but are you a fan of Two Jakes?

I think the problem with the Two Jakes is it's not Chinatown, do you know what I mean? Like, the problem is it's a sequel to a movie that is one of the greatest movies ever made, so it's really hard to follow such a strong act. I don't think it's My opinion is that it's fine. It's a sequel that came out way after the fact. I mean I know about the behind the scenes of it because of the Sam Wesson book where they talk a little bit about it, and then they talk about it in something else.

I forget what, but they I mean, the history behind it, I think is interesting. But I don't think it's a I don't think it's as bad of a movie as everybody says, but it's not, by any stretch of the imagination, a really good movie. No, it's not. Well, I think. I think it is a really good movie.

I think it's a really good follow up to Chinatown. But Chinatown is a full bore masterpiece statement of its time. And yeah too, like if they had if they had made if they had done the sequel in the early eighties with an early eighties Jack Nicholson and Dustin Hoffman and the Harvey Kiitel role, I think that would have been the perfect one. But as an imperfect follow up, I think there's a I was happy to go back to that world, to the world of Jake Gettis and follow him through Hollywood again. But that brings us back to La Confidential, which is that maybe I'm just very, very sympathetic to Hollywood noirs, in part because I love noir films and in part because I have a long relationship with the landscape of Hollywood and the history of Hollywood.

So they're both very compelling to me. Which maybe is a good place to talk about other Hollywood noirs that you might think of when you are approaching La Confidential. Do you have favorites beyond Chinatown? I was trying to think, you know, about those kinds of movies, and I'm less familiar with what I would call the original ones, but the the classics, I'm less familiar with the classics and kind of more familiar with like newer noir movies such as Okay, well, I mean again, like I don't know. I mean, I'm a huge fan of against sci fi noir, something like Blade Runner, I'm a huge fan of.

I would consider The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, the David Fincher movie that came out twenty twelve, twenty eleven, I would consider that a pretty good noir movie. I mean again, it's a different kind of noir. It's kind of that Swedish noir. I'm a huge fan of Zoe, which is just right up the coast from La another you know, David Fincher noir movie. And you know we we had talked about this.

Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is a is another movie I'm a huge fan of, as I know you are as well. Oh yeah, you know. It's not that I'm not a well versed in noir. Again, it's just I haven't seen a lot of the really famous early noir movies. I'm more familiar with more contemporary now when you say more famous, because I feel like there's the noir of the Noir era, like like the forties into the into the fifties, and then but then there's like the the seventies La Noir, which, in a way I feel like that's when it really becomes the La noir, which is long Goodbye, Chinatown.

I think those would be like the most identifying ones, but there are, I'm there are definitely others. I'm less familiar with La noir overall than I am with Noir overall. I have seen a couple La Noir things. I've seen this, and I guess China Town obviously, and then that as much as I love Brian de Palma, the Brian de Palma Black Dhalia movie, I have seen that as well, which that movie has a whole host of problems of its own. Let's just put it that way.

I have not seen it, so I cannot speak about it. It's I don't remember. I mean again, I don't remember it being a thing that I was very animated about, but again I haven't seen it since it came out. So just to name check a few others that I made a little list here, Long Goodbye. In pt Anderson's Inherent Vice, I think of The Big Lebowski.

It's a take on noir, but it's such a sort of a note for note subversion of the sleep that I think of it in the realm of l A Noir. And then Under the Silver Lake a recent entry. Did you say, have you seen Under the Silver Lake? I have not. Yeah, it is a it's a complicated film that stirs complicated reactions, but I really liked it.

And then I'm sure we're gonna be talking about the Nice Guys as well, which reunites Russell Crowe and Kim Basinger from La Confidential. So but let's yeah, let's le let's we We've talked around l A Confidential a lot, we haven't really gotten into it yet. This is your first watch. Talk about a little bit about you said you your reaction was that it was you know, you dug it? Yeah, no, I I really I really enjoyed it.

You know, it's you know, La Confidential is a movie that, like I'd mentioned, I mean, I've heard nothing but good things about it. I obviously have heard of j Elroy so the book and everything I had heard of. It's just I don't know why I had never gotten around to it. So, yeah, it's just it was one of those things where everything I'd heard about it had been really good and positive, and I don't know, I just was never at the top of my list. Nobody ever asked me to watch it, and people had asked me if I had watched it, but I don't know.

Sometimes that doesn't get the ball rolling enough to be like, oh, have you seen this? And then someone goes, oh, no, I haven't, and then like, oh, okay. If you leave it at that, it's like, well, maybe I don't need to watch it then. But when someone goes, oh, you haven't seen it, and oh my god, you haven't seen this, then it's like, all right, there's probably something to the quality of the movie being even better than just good. You know, there's something that makes it exemplary in a way, or you know, so worth getting excited about it if someone has not seen it.

So La Confidential is one of those movies. Welcome to Los Angeles, City of Future from the glitz and glamour. What do you do on the show? I teach Brett Chase how to walk and talk like a cop to the greed and corruption. I run call her.

So look, Mike, movie star, everyone here has a secret. You're talking to me and secrets that can kill. See the movie everybody's talking about four stars, says Roger Revert, the best American movie of the years, as New York magazine La Confidential reddin Ar. So yeah, that's what that is what we're talking about on this episode of the Culture Cast. So if you're a fan of La Noir, folks, strap in, because I think this is probably the the La Noir movie, of the most La Noir movie of La Noir movies that you can get.

It covers everything, It goes most places that these movies tend to go separately, not all in the same piece, and this movie kind of goes everywhere, And it feels kind of almost like if there were never another La Noir movie made after this movie, you might say, well, what else needed to be made? Well, now you're going a little bit far, sure, but you know what I mean, right, Like the feeling of the movie and the way it presents itself is it's trying to encompass all the trappings of these kinds of movies into one cohesive, singular thing. I mean, there's you know, there's the racism of that time in La there's the backstabbing political bureaucracy shit. There is some action, and I would say some like pretty gnarly violence as well, and there are big characters, and then there's even the entertainment angle of it being La Like it kind of covers you know what I mean, It covers almost all of the bases of the things you would want in this kind of movie.

So yeah, maybe that is a little hyperbolic, but I mean tack onto the fact that this is a James Elroy book, Like if we're talking the guy who writes this kind of stuff and is known for it, and then this is the adaptation, Like it's just I don't know, there's a lot working in this movie's favor and very little working against it. Yeah, and speaking of the adaptation, we had at first when we talk about doing this, we thought we were talking about really digging into that. And then I listened to the Projection Booth podcast and they did a great job on their episode about La Confidential really digging into the Elroy novel novels and how they relate to the film. So I encourage people to check that out.

I just want to say it is a phenomenal job of I want to say phenomenal it's almost like it's like a lesson in how to adapt a big, sprawling novel into a perfectly concise film. And Brian Helgeland, who did that, is not a guy who is who has a lot of great screenplays to his credit. I say this as someone who acted in one of them, his screenplay for Nightmare on Elm Street for The Dreammaster, and so it's also kind of amazing that he did this. And I feel like this took him to another level in Hollywood and as an artist. And I think in a way when we look at this film, so many talents are coming to this film and kind of hitting their stride.

As you reference talking about the actors at the beginning, but I think that's true with the director. I think that's true with the writer. Particularly true of the director and the writer and the four main actors in the film, Kevin Spacey, Russell Crowe, Guy Pierce, and Kim Basinger. And to leave out James Cromwell, it's actually probably the I was about to say, James Cromwell, feel like you have to. I feel like James Cromwell has to be mentioned.

I think it's five. I think it is five. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's because it all of these people, as you say, all of these people, and forgive me, I've never been that sympathetic to Kim bea singer as an actor. But let's say, for the sake of argument, all of these people have been in a lot of great films and given a lot of great performances. But there's something special about James Cromwell in this film that is maybe just a cut above everything else, and I think that is there.

That's kind of what makes a great film a lot of the time, is that magical synchronicity of talents coming together at exactly the right moment so that it becomes something that's bigger than the people involved could have even imagined they would achieve. And of course we should say James Elroy hates the film, but who cares because he's you know, as as we get into on the world is wrong a lot. Sometimes the people who are the most wrong about a project are the people who worked on that project or had the project made from their work. So but along those lines, I know you're not that deep in the in your experience of Curtis Hansen as a director, but have you seen any of his other films? I have not.

Eight Mile is a movie that I have has never motivated me or never I've never engaged with eminem like that. Let me put it that way as an artist, So it's just never been something that I've gravitated towards. Then let me just give a little bit a little talk about him, because he is definitely hitting his stride here. He started doing it's sort of like cheesy eight Like. He started, like a lot of people doing cheesy, low budget films.

He was the director of Losing It, the film that introduced Tom Cruise to the world, right right right, and then he was in he directed Sorry, the Bedroom Window and Bad Influence, films that I didn't particularly love, and then he really he took off with The Hand that Rocks the Cradle, River Wild, then La Confidential, Wonder Boys, and eight Mile, and I feel like that is a run of just I tried to watch The Hand that Rocks the Cradle just this week because I hadn't. It had been a blind spot, and I couldn't get through it. It's just it's too tense for me. But that's probably a sign of how good it is. But the other ones, The River Wild, La Confidential, Wonder Boys and Eight Mile are all really well made films, And whatever you think about Eminem, a film like eight Mile has no business being as good as it is, and I feel like that is entirely well.

I would say it's entirely because there's certainly some charisma there with eminem But you know, there was a lot of charisma there with Elvis, and they made a lot of bad movies with him. But yeah, no, eight Mile is if you hate eminem, there may be a hurdle to your entry there. But I think if you watched it, you would still be struck with how well directed it is. And if you watched it in the context of River Wilde, Wonder Boys, La Confidential, you would see the hand of a kind of a tour a workman auateur. But one of the things that's interesting about La Confidential, which I find that maybe it's what makes it such a good noir film, is if you watch a Bad Influence and Bedroom Window his eighties, and even though Bad Influence was a nineties thing, I think of it as an eighties film.

It has sort of the cheesy noir ish quality that some these films have that don't feel like noir. They just feel more like eighties music videos, but just lots of blue light coming through windows and that kind of vibe. And somehow when he gets to La Confidential, he's able to use all of that in the service of this film, and it really does come out as a noir feeling as opposed to what it felt like in films like Bad Influence. Anyway, that's my take on Curtis Hansen. There are some interesting films after that, but we don't really need to get into it.

So tell me about your time with La Confidential. Oh well, I just I think it was my first introduction to both Russell Crowe and Guy Pierce, and yeah, it blew me away. They were immediately both on my radar. I think it was the first time Kevin Spacey was playing someone in a film who wasn't a like a flat out creep. He was always I liked him from when he first showed up as an actor in the TV show Wise Guy like the late eighties, but by the time this film had come out, he had done Glengarry glen Rock, Glengary Glenn Ross, which he plays a creep.

He was in The ref where he plays a sort of a very stressed out character Swimming with Sharks where he plays an evil agent, Usual Suspects where he plays a creep, Seven where he plays a creep. A Time to Kill where he plays a racist da and then we get La Confidential and he's this charismatic actor who really has a heartbreaking death scene. Assume spoilers are okay, we're not going to try and oh yeah, no, yeah this I mean I will say spoilers, but you're right, like, this is a movie worth checking out if you've never seen it, take my word for it. I'd never seen it before, but I knew nothing about this movie going into it. And that scene where he dies, Uh, I was shocked.

It's a shocking scene. Yes, it was as shocking as it was as shocking as DiCaprio's murder in The Departed, straight straight up. It had that same feeling to it. Now, I gotta say, I've watched like every time that happens, and I've watched that scene probably twenty times now in my life. It still has impact even knowing it's coming.

It's just the way it's shock. It's it's perfectly acted edited, Like, yeah, it's just a really really excellent But I'm curious what do you make of Kevin Spacey in this film, because it really was the beginning of that, of his move, of the move that takes him to American Beauty and then into his more like I want to be a likable actor guy, because up till then he had totally made his name playing skeezy guys. And there is something skeezy to jack Vin Sen's but it's a it's a uh, it has a Dean Martini kind of vibe to it, which softens it. Obviously that's not true in like seven. Well, you know, I mean again, I Kevin Spacey is an interesting actor, all of his whatever aside Again to not wade into that, because I don't frankly care, and that's his fucking problem and not mine.

As they would say, again, I only know what I've heard and I'm not willing to make any judgment on it. I think Kevin Spacey excels at playing creeps for whatever reason, and it's weird to see him playing something that's meant to be likable, because I don't know, he just excels at playing creeps for whatever reason. Maybe it's just his inner id is able to come out a lot easier. But he's really good here. But I did have a hard time buying the like the nice guy part of who he is.

Do you know what I mean? Oh? Yeah, not for me at all. It's hard to It's hard to buy it only because again, like he's so good at being such a creep and a monster most of the time. And but it's not a bad thing if you if you know your strengths in that regard.

Yeah, And I don't. And I feel like what I think is one of the most interesting aspects of this film is its relation to queerness and the Kevin Spacey character, the Jack Vin Send's character, and his relationship to the gay actor he sets up. And there's a scene between him and what's the actor's name, Simon he played the mentalist, Oh, Simon Baker. Yeah, the scene where he sets Simon Baker up. I don't know if the film is intentionally doing this or if the director is subtle it's I don't know where it's coming from.

But in that scene, Kevin Spacey is like, I feel like he's coming out. He's saying, like the way he looks at that Simon character, the way they talk, he come He's playing a closeted gay man who has Like that's the feeling I get is that he's playing Maybe that's just because Kevin Spacey is that closeted gay man who is not closeting himself that much, but enough to be able to work in this world. And I think that's one of the most interesting aspects of this film and one of again going back to Curtis Hansen, that he is able to capture that and convey that in a way that I wasn't even maybe I intuited it at the time, but now when I watch it, it's undeniable. But did you get that from that scene? That's okay?

So that's the interesting thing obviously, also about Kevin Spacey as an actor, and again like if Kevin Spacey had not come out as gay, what you know what I mean, Like what would the subtext be? But I feel like you're right, like it's still there even without even without the confirmation of that, Okay, Like in real life, this guy is also that like to your point, like it's interesting because it doesn't serve anything. It's just kind of there. I mean, it's like they do anything with it, you know what I mean, It's just kind of this moment, and it's just kind of this moment. It doesn't necessarily go anywhere, but it is interesting because I think you're right.

Yeah, I think you would have picked up on it anyway, because I think that was always there. And I think this is one of the things that bugs me a little bit about the way we talk about Kevin Spacey is that his queerness often got used to portray him his characters as creepy, yeah, or ambiguous. And I do feel like the pileon with Kevin Spacey is homophobic regardless of that, like he has been accused by gay man as well. I think that the will to hate him is Yeah, I think it comes from a homophobic place, or it's driven in part by that. And so it makes me want to, if not defend Kevin Spacey, defend the people who might get wrapped up in the condemnation of Spacey, people who are like Spacey.

You know that again, there's something And this is what I love about this film is that it instead of using Spacey's queerness as an analog for creepiness, it uses his queerness for as an analog for ambiguous morality, a kind of like a sympathy behind a hardness like there's the cop there's the cop face that he shows, but there's in that scene with Simon Baker, there's this deep empathy, sympathy, pain, longing, like all of the things that come with having to be closeted, right, and the way that like the compassion that his character shows just in his eyes for that character. I think that's what made Kevin Spacey in the time that he was a transcendent movie star because he was able to flip that queer is creepy into queer is soulful.

And then he's gone through what he's gone through, and recently he's been vindicated in court, so we should probably presence that as well. In the spirit of the world is wrong, we're always on the side of the one being attacked and always in opposition to the attacking, judging mob of people online. Twitter is Twitter is always wrong? Ah, yes, well, you know, it's only because it's filled with people. That's true.

It's true. That's very and you know what, I'll take them over AI any day, so well and I I you know, in terms of again like again not to defend or condemn, like Kevin Spacey is in plenty of things that I really like. I mean, you mentioned Glengarry Glenn Ross. I like that movie a lot. I like this movie a lot.

So yeah, it's it's kind of again, it's kind of hard to overlook it. But at the same time, like you said, homophobia is homophobia is homophobia, so part of it is going to be that. But also, you know, you mentioned Dean Martin. I can't imagine Dean Martin wasn't a handsy guy, you know, like and and or Bobby Darren to even make a bigger, you know, comparison, So I don't I don't know. I just it's a different kind of movie star type thing.

And that's however you want to like you said, however you want to define it is however anyone's going to define it. So but coming back to the film, I do feel like that is one of the strengths of this film that puts it over Chinatown is that there is this soulful queerness to it, which comes through also in the Russell Crowe Guy Pearce relationship that Kim Basinger even presences. She says, you know, you're not fucking him, You're fucking me or whatever, and so there it's something that is all throughout this film. And maybe that's one of the things that bums James Elroy out about it. I don't know, but it's one of the things that I find, uh makes this film, even though it's harsh, it has my sympathy because I feel like it has a sympathy that other harsh noir films don't have for the people who are the victims of that world.

Like if you think of Chinatown, like, I don't feel like that, and I you know, I love that film, but I don't feel like that film has a lot of sympathy for anyone but maybe Evelyn mulray and her kid. But even that it treats are pretty bad, Whereas this film has a little like and we can get into it that maybe this is a weakness of it, but there is something kind of cuddly about this brutal film, and I think it comes from that. Well. I mean, look in the in the scope of where the movie ends up, you have leads and only one of those leads die and the other one gets shot through the face. Like you know, it's like I would agree, like most of these stories, these noir stories, the ending does not they don't Drive to Arizona at the end of the movie, and most of these noir movies, is my point.

Yeah, and a lot of people really to have issue with the ending of the movie that it's too it's too nice. I I guess I get it, but it's very It's like the ending feels very star wars y, you know what I mean. It's like and everybody lived happily ever after, and they got their medals and they all went on and lived happier lives. It's like, I don't need to see what happens to these characters after this movie, you know what I mean, Like I believe, but I believe they all lived happy lives. But I also completely understand that as a criticism, and a pretty big one against this movie, because yeah, it it kind of bucks noir conventions while you know, certain ones while embracing others.

So yes, and just our understanding of the history of the LAPD, Like you get the feeling at the end of this movie that Okay, well LAPD is cleaned up. It's gonna be no problems there now Exley's there, and these you know, Buzz Meeks or not sorry, Bud White and Kim basing her are going to go off into the sunset. And not only that, there's not even any jealousy left between Bud White and Exley, because when Kim Bassinger kisses him on the cheek, it's all just it's all nice. It's you know, there's jealousy doesn't exist anymore. Corruption doesn't exist any more, Toxic masculinity doesn't exist anymore.

It's just gonna be great. LA is going to be a haven for arts and artists and wonderful people. And it's like, come on again. Doesn't mean that I didn't enjoy it while it was happening, but having to think about it afterwards, it was like, yeah, that's I can see why that would bum James l Roy out. But Brian Helglenn's writing a Hollywood movie.

Now. We haven't talked about Russell Crowe. We've talked about Spacey and Guy Pearce. What do you think about him in this I again, I like him. We're talking about Ussell.

We talk about Ussell Crow, Guy, Piers Russell Crowe. Okay, I like Russell Crowe in this movie. My My only thing is like I normally am not someone who gravitates towards Russell Crowe. As an actor. I don't know why, but he's not someone who I would immediately go out of my way to watch his movies.

I mean, I've seen Gladiator one time, you know, like it's he's not an actor who I've I watch a lot of his things intentionally. So seeing him in this was actually very pleasant, pleasant surprise because I really like him and he's really good in this. But I just don't have a familiarity with his body of work to have much of an opinion on him other than he's good in this. Yeah, did you see what's the what's the Western? He did?

Uh? No, quick in the Dead quo like nineties? Gotcha? Did you see that? I have not seen that.

Oh that's really great. That's really great. And I'm a big fan of a film that nobody really knows called Mystery Alaska, a hockey movie that that he's in. But yeah, Gladiator is nonsense. I like, actually, by the time Gladiator happens, that's when he stops being interesting.

He was really interesting. And then Gladiator, Proof of Life, A Beautiful mind Master and Commander Cinderella, Like yeah, then it's like like I need some oscars and he doesn't really get interesting again. Uh, well, I don't want to say until the nice guys, but that's how you're gonna say limis a rob, which is it's no, no boy, it's his performance in Limiz Rob is interesting. That was interesting choice to pick him for that movie. But I just I don't, like I said, I just I don't go out of my way to watch his stuff because of the thing you just said.

Like, for the most part, when I think of Russell Crowe, I'm thinking of like mid two thousand's Russell crow where everything is just oscar bait, nonsense, no no, early on, like, yeah, he's he's really he's really good on the come up, and I think there's something. I think there's something interesting him, interesting in the older, shaggier, fat Russell Crowe. But it's great that we have this Bud White that is just on fire. This is a you know, a Brando level performance that he's giving us of that kind of a guy, you know, a guy who's acting with his eyes and his body and his just his physicality as much as he is with his words. And then the combination when he and Guy Pierce get together, there's a chemistry between the two of these Australian actors doing American accents.

That is a film perfection, you know, right there, Like as good as any two hander you can imagine. I think I will say, Guy Pierce's American accent is so convincing. It's it's as I mean, I don't know what it is about Australian actors being able to do American accent so well, but he just I mean, and Russell Crow too, obviously, but guy Guy Pierce, if you had told me he was American, I would believe you. Like that's how convincing it is. There is not a there's not a hard R in there.

That's how you know the Brits whenever they do American accents, it's, you know, the hard R. But there's none of that because obviously again like he's Australian, but Australians for whatever just nail the American accent, and like this specific one too, I mean, they both nail it so well, but Guy Pierce just it's like it seems effortless, probably because it is well, probably not effortless. He's he took some effort. He makes it, he makes it effort he makes it seame effortless, like it's so I mean, it's like it's like the American accent Hugh Laurie does. It's like, I'm if I didn't know you were British, I would not have realized it by the way you talk, because when he plays House, it's just so convincing.

And that, I mean, that's the thing, Like, like you mentioned, this is a quote all American story set in la but one of the actors, one of the lead the lead actor. Of the three main characters, there's only one that's American and the other two are Australia. Yeah, but again can't tell. Yeah, Yeah, again, you wouldn't. There's Yeah, there's something counterintuitive about film that sometimes that just works the you know you would on paper when they when Hanson and Helgelend brought this to the studio, I'm sure you could look at that studio list and they're like, not just that they're Australian, but they're unknowns.

You know. I'm sure that they wanted, you know, Keanu Reeves to play Exley at that time or some you know, someone like that, and great that they didn't and I should. This is where I want to mention the casting director Mally finn I worked with her many many years ago, and her work casting this film and just as a casting director in general. Keep an eye out for that name. It's m A l I finn f i nn.

She's no longer with us, but she casts some amazing films. And I should say the director who cast me cast me against her wishes. She was not particularly a fan of mine. I don't care. She's really she's really really good.

She cast Mission Impossible, like the stuff she was casting around this time. I'm Mission Impossible a time to kill. She cast Titanic, so she was casting some big, big films, but did an amazing job casting La Confidential. I would say that this this, that's one of the stealth stars of the film. Is the flawless casting throughout where I would say maybe the weakest is Kim basing Er.

And she won an Oscar, So what do I know? Well, speaking of Oscars, I was surprised how few people were nominated. Specifically the person I want to mention, James Cromwell. How was he not nominated for Supporting Actor for this movie? Like he's he's such a standout.

I mean again not saying he isn't always a standout from you know, being on you know, several episodes of Barney Miller to the movie he would win an Academy Award for with Babe, Like, he has such versatility as an actor. But the thing that I love about his performance is when he's he's a he's an American actor playing an irishman, covering up his accent when he's trying to come across as an all American police officer. But it keeps slipping through, and he lets it down when he's beating the shit out of people because then he wants to get back to whatever his roots are clearly exactly, and it's so fucking good. I mean, I would actually go as far as to say he's my favorite part of the movie because he is beyond menacing in a way that again James Cromwell does really well, and he does it to perfection.

I mean, he's the perfect villain for this movie. Yeah. But and such a soft talking, likable villain. And another going back to what the what Brian Helgeln did really brilliantly is In the book, Exley's relationship with his father is a big deal, but in the film, his father is dead and a lot of the lines and the dialogue that happens between Exley and his father becomes dialogue between Exley and James Cromwell's character. And I feel like that father like making that character fatherly is a really great trick of the script.

Well, it makes the reveal that much more shocking, the moment when Kevin Spacey gets murdered. It makes that scene that much more shocking because it really comes out of nowhere because, like you mentioned, they draw you in so well, they bait you into the trap so well. Because James Cromwell is again, so likable most of the time. I mean, yeah, he's kind of a skeazy dick in this movie, but he's still you don't get the sense that he's gonna start murdering his own people until he well, but and you didn't even really get that sense before, you know, and this is like you you sort of thought he was a cop in the old school style, right, And even when he's killing Kevin Spacey or about to kill uh, you know, about to uh we bust into the thing at the end and start shooting people, he he's still very friendly about it.

Oh boyo, do you have a benediction for me? He's not like ash you know, it's all very nice. I'm just killing you, that's all I'm doing. It's all very nice, which is much more horrifying. Yeah, it's wonderful, but greatality of evil, like he's just so well and again, like that's why it's perfect is because it's it's the police captain, Like, it's the guy.

He's there in the building, he's your boss, and he's also the one subverting the law. And that's and that's what makes it. I mean, that's what makes the twist with Kevin Spacey works so well. And that's what makes his role work so well, as like you said, I mean transferring the paternal aspects of the character onto him from the guy Pierce's, you know, character in the book. I think I think it just allows you as an audience to really get drawn into the world and not think, oh, there's something more going on here until all of a sudden there is.

Like that, the scene with Kevin Spacey kind of happens without note. You don't think anything of it until all of a sudden, Kevin Spacey's dead with really mean cold bullet holes. Like there's I feel like there's not even any blood in it. These are just like there's a there's a line. I don't know if it's Dashiel Hammett, it's like they talking about maybe it was talking about eyes or bullet holes that look like punches in the snow or I'm I'm sure I'm just totally ruining that line, but there is something again that's the direction.

It's very It reminds me. Did you see the film Munich, the Spielberg film when it came out. Yeah, yeah, the way that the kills are in that they're just the bullet holes are more like just like holes in people's chests than like these bloody explosions. And there's something about that that, to me is more horrific than gorier bullet riddled scenes. I don't know why.

There's something about that, And I saw that in the squibs they used in that scene gave that same impression. We're not really talking about Kim Basinger, though I feel like we should give her her due. Did I interrupt you? Did you want to know? Oh?

Well, no, I was just going to say, you know, I think what I appreciate about the way the movie handles a lot of the violence and the usage of the gore that is in the movie is it is very matter of fact about it. You get shot in the heart, you die, you bleed out and die the end, like it's not unless you're Russell Crowe, right right right, which again I'm sure we'll yeah, I'm sure we'll get to the whack the whack ending of the movie. But the reason we're not really talking about Kim Basinger is I think you kind of mentioned it already. Kim Basinger inhabits a weird section of actresses for me that I just like, I I don't It's not that I don't have anything against him. I just don't understand.

Maybe I just never have understood why they're being cast in so many things and what the appeal is because like Kim Basinger is fine, I just an act an Academy award, like it's just kind of strange, right to me. Yeah, I mean the Academy Awards are always strange. So I don't really sure. Yeah, well that taking that aside, I just I've never understood her appeal personally. It's just that's just me, like maybe I've never seen her in the maybe I haven't seen the Kim Basinger role.

No, this is I think the Kim basing our role. Well, then then I kind of go back to what I said before. Then, yeah, I'm the same way. I can't help but feel like, like, yeah, there's just something. It's not even her fault.

It's just like Hollywood fell in love with the image of Kim Basinger as sort of some blonde ideal of movie stardom, right, and I the modern day Marilyn Monroe. Yeah, And I just feel like, you know, this is I could think of other actresses from Julianne Moore to Barbara Hershey or I don't know, plenty of other interesting actors and actresses who didn't actresses who didn't get this the the platform that Kim basing Or got and I and it's it's really unfair to kim basing her from me to think that way, although of course I can think any way I want, because it's not I don't. I have no antipathy towards her. She has every right to take the roles that were offered to her. And it's more, I'm confused by Hollywood's decision to anoint her the way it did instead of any other number of actresses who I just think are more compelling.

But but I've felt this. There are plenty of actors, other actors who I have felt this way about, from saying Patrick Swayze to you know, I'm just outing, like everyone loves Patrick Srasey. I never I never liked Patrick Swayzee, so I'm with you on that one. For a long time, I didn't like Tim Robbins on film, and then he started directing films, and then I gained huge respect for him as an artist, and now I really like him as an actor. So a lot of that This is what we get into when the world is wrong.

Just because I don't like something doesn't mean that thing is bad, right, But I think it is weird that in a film with so many amazing performances, kim basing Her won the Oscar, which is again more of an indictment of the Oscars than of Kim basing Her. So I think we've given her the best attention we can under the circumstances. I actually I actually liked her in Cellular, which is the other thing I have seen her in. She's pretty good in that, But that is like a real deep cut, random like mid two thousands movie. It's kind of in that same Milliu of like Phone Booth, like a weird a weird movie about technology, new technology being used in a weird way.

But she's fine in that playing kind of a mom who's talking to Chris Evans on the phone the entire movie. She's fine. And I made you watch The Nice Guys, which you hadn't seen before this because it was the reunion of Russell Crowe and Kim Basing or because I feel like that film is in conversation with La Confidential of Shane Black's The Nice Guys. What do you think of Kim basing her in that film? I I mean, I think she's I mean, I think she's good, you know.

Again, I mean obviously she is opposite Russell Crowe again, so I mean I will say I liked their chemistry in La Confidential. Oh yeah, I totally bought that good chemistry. So at least there is that like and she's very very good good in La Confidential. There's no like it is, there's no there's nothing embarrassing or wrong about the performance. She plays the role and delivers it exactly like.

I can't imagine someone doing that role better, doing it differently, perhaps, But I think she's and clearly it worked because that both because all of her relationships I buy, even the unspoken relationship. We never really see her with David stratharn Oh, I guess we see her in the car with him at the beginning, but even the way she talks about him, I feel their relationship. So it is a very very solid performance from again, just an actor. I'm less sympathetic towards than other actors, right, yeah, I mean I have I you know, you said one name, so I will give one as well. Robin Wright is another actress that just just doesn't RESI with me personally, But again I know that she's in great things and I know she's a great actress, So same thing.

I like Kim Basinger in this. But like you said, the Academy Awards are they are what they are, and they have made their own, you know, group of mistakes. I mean, the thing that was more surprising when looking at the Academy Award stuff is how little this did win and how little this was nominated for. Hugland won an Oscar though for the screenplay, so that's good. I was just surprised more of the actors didn't get recognition.

Yeah, yeah, I'm right with you. But again they were unknown at the time, and Holly, the oscars tend to reward either known quantities or maybe maybe there's a little bit of anti Ossie prejudice. I should. I wanted to say one thing on the Robin Wright thing. I really recommend seeing State of Grace, the Phil Juanu film with Sean Penn and Gary Oldman, and she's really She has some scenes in that that they might not turn you around on liking her as a part of being drawn to her, But boy, she matches those two guys in intensity, which is not easy to do well.

And that's the thing I mean, kim basing her holds her own against a pretty intense Russell Crowe towards the end of the movie. Yes, like Russell Crowe is an intense actor. That is the thing that I can say with absolute certainty. That's what comes through in all of his roles for me that I've seen him in is he's an intense dude. Oh and I should I want to go going back to the Nice Guys an interesting little I don't know if it's a synchronicity or if it was something that Shane Black intended, but Sarah Halle Finn, who is the daughter of Mally Finn, was the casting director on The Nice Guys.

So I can imagine maybe Shane Black just being like, get me the cast and director from that other film that was so perfectly cast, and she was like, oh, let's go back to the Russell Crow Kim Basinger. Well, well then, and The Nice Guys is a really fun movie. You know, I have not seen Ryan Gosling in enough things, and now I've seen him in The Nice Guys and Barbie within the span of two weeks. And I really like Ryan goss That's so funny he plays that. He plays that character really well in The Nice Guys, Like it's a perfect counterpoint to Russell Crowe kind of playing a similar character the one he plays in La Confidential.

I love it. I love it a week I feel like it was just a week ago. We were talking. You're like, I'm not that into Ryan Gosling, and I was like, yeah, you need some Gateway Gosling. Check out The Nice Guys.

Now you're like, I love that guy. Yeah, he's great. I mean again, when they give him an opportunity to be charismatic, he really shines. I mean again, We talked about Blade Runner twenty forty nine off air, But I mean he's good in that, it's just it's a different kind of role. And in The Nice Guys, it's more in line with what he's doing in Barbie, kind of playing this harried guy who just can't seem to get the ground underneath him long enough to stand up and feel comfortable.

And I like that and he plays that really well. Yeah. But Russell, I mean, Russell Crowe is really good in that movie too, because again he's playing very similar to what he's doing in La Confidential. I would say it's a little toned down, but that also comes with Russell Crowe being you know, twenty almost twenty years older. Yeah.

Yeah, he's another bruiser, but in this case, like in La Confidential, his bruiser is driven by this passion to protect women, and in La Confidential he doesn't seem like he's driven to do anything, which I kind of let's. I love the broken man quality of his character in The Guys. Yeah, that's another sort of perfect two hander between him and Gosling, just like between him and Guy Pierce in La Confidential. There was one other point about La Confidential that I wanted to talk with you about because watching it this time, thinking about it, I couldn't help but notice the ways that it functions as copaganda while sort of taking credit for being about the corruption of the police, and right, they're dealing with it from within, andras, don't you understand it's always like still a lot of corrupt cops though you just dealt with like a handful guys.

Well, just sort of like, let's just think about these characters. So we have Exley, who is the politician and he's the one who's going to come in and clean up the system. And we have Bud White, who is the bad LA cop, the kind of guy, the kind and this is nineteen nineties, so we've got to think of it in the context of when they were making it. This Bud White is the kind of cop who beat up Rodney Kings. That's right exactly.

And by the way, James Cromwell very physically he has a lot of similarities to Daryl Gates, who is the chief of police in LA during that time. So this is a film that is even though it's about the forties, it's also about the nineties and the LA Police Department. And in this version. We have this, so we have the the young firebrand who's going to clean up the system. We have the bad cop, but he's not really that bad because he protects women.

He may be sort of like he made the handwaving and be a racist, he may be working for the mob. He may be, but he protects women and that makes him a good guy. He's down heart, down deep, he's a good guy. He's not a brutal racist, you know, abusing his power. No, he's a guy who protects women.

And then Jack fn sends he's the sort of if Bud White represents the brutality, the corruption of brutality, then Jack fncends is more the corruption of the relationship of the police department with the main industry in Hollywood. And instead of being a sleazy guy taking advantage of these people, we get him as a guy who is coded as potentially a closeted gay man who has great sympathy for these people he's setting up, and he's very conflicted. And then of course he has the tragic death that you know, we all feel when it happens. So we have these even though the story is about this LAPD that's rife with corruption, it's also the story about how three good cops changed the system, and it allows us to sort of revel in the the corruption and the ugliness while getting to feel safe and like everything is returned to order, when in the nineteen nineties we know that's not true, right.

I was gonna say, I actually, you know, thinking of something that kind of operates as copaganda, but I'm a huge fan of it. The the Amazon series Bosh, which takes place in La Oh, yeah, totally that we should talk about that because Bosh definitely feels like an la Noir for a TV well, and Bosh feels like Bud White in a lot of ways, like he's a little bit of Bud White, and he's a little bit of Xley, like he's he's a little bit of all three because they never allow him to go full ape shit because he knows better even and again, Bud White knows better too, He's just he's weaponized to not care. But then he but then Bosh also has that kind of the you know, the politician thing of understanding it's not really a politician thing.

I mean, it's just understanding how to maneuver within the system and how to play what people's wants and needs are off of one another. Like I mean, that's all Exley is doing. I mean that's called being a politician, but I mean it's in a lot of ways, it's also being very bureaucratic and very smart about conflict resolution. That's the thing about the Axley character that I think ultimately works for me. And that's the thing that, like I said, you kind of see it in the Bosh TV show is just an understanding of how the system works, the justice system and then the you know, the cop system itself.

And that's I like that about the Guy Piers character, and I like it obviously just as much with with the Bosh kids. Yeah, and I'm with you. It's it's uh. I think that let's unpack this a little bit. If you can recognize something as copaganda, which means that you recognize that it's not telling the true story of the police, but a flattering story of UH an organization that has some sort of has definitely ugly history and probably ugly present, and yet we enjoy them.

We you know, we may our our rational brain may recognize that we are being propagandized, but another part of ourself just relaxes into these what are really sort of fascist fairy tales, and I think it's something, well, it's something that I contend with in terms of my viewing. Why do I like, I'm incapable of just mindlessly lapping up mission impossible film that's celebrating the you know, spies and murderers, but I love them so so I think I wonder about the people who are able to watch those things and turn really and never even engage the part of the mind that is saying, well, what is this trying to teach me about how the world works? That is not the truth? When you watch films like that, do you are you are you like me?

Do you toggle back and forth between oh come on and ooh yes, get them, get them? Well, well that's the well, that's the problem. I mean obviously, you know, as someone who's watched a fair amount of cop copaganda from the seventies, I mean, Barney Miller and Colombo are both like copaganda adjacent, if not full on yeah copaganda, And like, it's what's interesting about it is you know you mentioned it with La Confidential. The nice Guy's not so much because that's more like detectives pis and yeah, private detectives and stuff which which is its own world, you know, and a world worth mining as well, obviously. But what's interesting is, like I do think about it obviously because I watched so much of this kind of stuff just already, Like I said, I watched Barney Miller, I watch Colombo for the respective shows that I work on for on Weirding Way with Mike White, and so like, it's kind of hard to not think about out the copaganda and you know, well, you know again like here are the good cops in the system.

I mean, look, it's like anything else. I mean, we're not talking about white supremacists in Nazis here. We're talking about the police in this country, which there are people who work in the police that are good cops, white supremacists and not right right exactly exactly. And that's the problem. It's it's like anything else.

It's it's it's like anything when you talk about putting people into groups. If people are in groups, that means that you know, there are a bunch of people in a group, or more than one people, and the more people you add, the less you know about everybody's background. One. And that's the thing, I mean, that's the problem with a lot of groups or organizations. And then add on top of that, these people are given the power to police as they see fit in a lot of ways.

So yeah, it's it's hard to come to terms with it because I don't know what there is to do other than acknowledge it, speak to it the best we can. But not like I mean, Mike and I don't bring it up on every episode. I think we've brought it up like a handful of times, you know what I mean, Like people would get sick and tired of hearing on every episode. Oh, by the way, we have to you know, let's again say, you know, you know there's problems with cops in this country right now, Like people would stop tuning in if we just kept saying it. We all know, well, and I think there's a there's, but there's you know.

I want to see stories told about cops because because that's an interesting profession. It just is like and the things that they can deal with are so different from what an accountant would run into on a daily basis. Yeah, yeah, I mean generally I prefer movies about criminals or private eyes to ones that are really just about the cops, because I feel like, yeah, again, there's there is an agenda that drives Like you can tell there's an agenda that is driving this And I love this film. I turned you onto it, I told you should try to watch it. But there is definitely an agenda that's driving the film La Confidential that is not just let's make a good movie, but let's make a movie that gives people the catharsis of going to get those bad cops who beat up on Rodney King and the happy feeling at the end of like, Okay, well now now we can trust the cops where nothing has actually changed.

We just watched a movie and going to that like, and I feel like there are a lot of other groups that are could be shown just as positively or with a fair ambiguity that just you never see them positive positively, you know, you know, whether it's it's the people we call terrorists who in other circumstances might be seen as freedom fighters, or the people we call all drug dealers, who in other situations we could call uh, you know, enterprising enterprising entrepreneurs is making the best of like trying to like cops are making tons of money off the drug war. We don't we don't our movies about cops don't address that, even though all the money that is made off seizures and different other things that doesn't get play, doesn't play into it unless we're making a movie about it.

So it's one of these things as a movie fan that I find myself, as a fan of movies and a fan of history, a fan of history, a student of history, that movies are propaganda. And that's what La Confidential is telling us, which kind of brings us around why I love this film is that even though it is doing all of this propaganda work that I don't love, it still is ultimately a detective story about people seeking out corruption that really does exist and challenging it. And somehow this movie is able to walk both sides of the street, satisfy both needs, and I think that's what makes it a great film. Well, I think that that primarily hinges on the Russell Crowe character, because, like you mentioned at the beginning of the film, Yeah, we understand that he protects women and that he's got this, you know, chip on his shoulder about women being abused and mistreated, but then we see him engage in the bloody Christmas stuff in the in the you know, in the jail, and so it's like, okay, so this guy's a hothead.

But I mean again, by the end of the movie, like like we mentioned, him and Guy Peers have gone on this journey together and now are trying to root out the corruption that Russell Crowe was part of. I mean again, he was weaponized by James Cromwell's character, you know, for most of the movie, and he was going and kind of doing again it's you know, it's those things about you know, the things that James Cromwell asks Guy Piers at the beginning of the movies, would you be willing to shoot somebody in the back that you know is guilty just to make it easier so there aren't lawyers, fees and stuff. And Guy Pearce is like, no, I would not do it, you know, I refuse And obviously there's a fantastic payoff with that.

But it also speaks to the other protagonist of the movie, the Russell Crowe character, because he's kind of the flip side of Exley. He's he's just he's he feels he's just as morally righteous, he's just kind of in a more gray area morally gray area and legally gray area too, obviously, but by the end of the movie he comes around more or less completely. But there's no room in the newly clean LAPD for even a reformed Bud White, which again is such a lie. But well, well, and that's oh my god. So that is the other thing.

So let's talk. Let's let's talk about the end of the movie. So we have a shootout at the Victory Motel and Russell Crowe should be dead, doesn't die. Makes no sense why he doesn't. James Cromwell has the gun on Guy Pierce, and of course he you know, Guy Pierce says the Rolo Tamasi line, which is which is I think one of the best little pieces of kind of callback in this movie is the story then becomes a piece of information that in that moment when Guy Peers is talking to James Cromwell and he says it to him, it's that might be the best scene in the movie, because the look on Guy Pierce's face is just he you you can see if you pause it the moment all the puzzle pieces lock into place in that scene and he's like, oh no.

But then we have the payoff at the end of the movie where he says it again to James Cromwell and then he's like, you know, I just you know, I made it up, you fucking morimon. But but the problem then becomes the way the movie actually wraps up with James Cromwell getting shot in the back by Guy Pearce and he's you know, essentially telling him, you know, I'll make you a fucking king kid. All you got to do is let me live. I'll you know, I'll sing your praises and I'll help be the kind of the boost to the top of the lapd that you need. And Guy Pierce doesn't want to make a deal with the devil, so he shoots James Cromwell, coming full circle with the story, and then we have a code attacked on that is so unneeded, so unneeded, and almost at odds with the entire movie.

Well, let me just say I would say that not the like the part where actually is in the Wit is now being interrogated and he's behind the two way mirror and he does the trick where he knows what they're saying and he knows just how to manipulate them, and like that's where it should have ended. It should have ended right there because that that button is great, it's what happened. And then we could have just been left with, oh, like he's alone in there. He's he's alone, but he's smarter than everyone and it's just the character. He's hated by the system, but he's worked the system against itself.

That's the end of the movie. But instead, and there's ambiguity as to whether or not Russell Krosser and there's ambiguity whether or not he's going to get away with it. We don't know if they're going to buy it. We don't know if they're going to just be corrupt and shut him out, but they what we do know is they know he's smarter than they are. And end of movie.

That would have been perfect. But continue, but then we get Russell Crowe and Kimbasing her going off to Arizona. It together well, first we get actually getting promoted in a system, yeah again for the second for the second time in the movie. And then we get him walking out of so he got the victory. Then he walks out and Russell crow and kim Basing her going to Arizona and she kisses him on the cheek and true noir fans hearts break.

There's nothing there is nothing darker in this movie than the darkness and the cynicism behind putting that happy ending on it. Yeah, it's so unneeded. It's just it's so strange. It's like a bubblegum ending to a to a meal that that bubble gum should not be served in front of Like I don't know, like anything. I mean, who's eating bubblegum at the end of a meal?

You know, like a big piece of pink bubble gum. Like that's the problem. It's not just like a palate cleansery ending that puts a button on the movie, because that's what the scene before that scene was. It just, for whatever reason, just goes full saccering and I just I don't get it, Like why who were they pandering to? And why like that the test audience has just wanted Russell Crowe's character to be alive so badly.

It's like I guess, I mean, look, he gets shot in the face, you know, I get that. He gets shot right in the face in the cheek in the perfect spot where all it would do is just blow your mouth open essentially and you know, destroy your ability to eat. For the rest of your life, I guess, or in Russell Crow's case, he just has a little band right there. Yeah, it's so kind of yinky all of a sudden, it just for a movie that does such a good job at existing in more or less a grounded reality, where the movie ends up is just kind of really like almost I would almost say infantile in a in a sense like it just what what? What is this movie?

All of a sudden, This is not the same movie I've been watching for almost two hours or over two hours. Yeah, it was, I don't know. Hel Glenn fell back on his on his old habits at the end, But again I don't know. This is where this is where I wonder how much political pressure comes to bear on a film that is addressing something that is as hot button as that was at the time, which is the reputation of the LAPD, Like what pressures come to bear on that production? I don't know, right to make it even rosier, I don't know.

I don't know if that's a voluntary thing. I guess we'll never know, But the filmmakers certainly know that the audience's response to that decision is a negative one, And I'm sure, they probably well, Curtis Hansen is no longer with us, but I would imagine Brian Helgeland would agree that the film would have ended on a stronger note, doing it the way I suggest, rather than how it was done. But this wouldn't be the first time. Just it doesn't it doesn't need it. It's just it's it's it's just unneeded, that's all it is.

Like it just it gilds the lily, right. It's so strange. It's such an upbeat ending for such a more or less not upbeat movie. Like it is kind of glossy noir, but it's not hyper glossy to the point where we can't treat the audience like adults and kind of have to treat them like little kids and be like, oh, and everybody got a happy ending in the end. That's not that's not what the point of the story was to me and everybody, not Lelands or Dudley, but the people.

Yeah, but the people I'm talking about that were obviously Yeah, he's the only Yeah, that's true. But you know, I mean, in terms of like the main characters, it's just for a noir movie, there's a low body count in terms of main characters. So I don't know if Russell Crowe being dead at the end would have changed anything but a little bit more ambiguity as to his outcome as opposed to just a band aid over his face. It's just it just it kind of is just very not not at all what I was expecting when the movie kind of plays out the last ten minutes, So I honestly thought it was just going to end with him shooting James Cromwell in the back and then because you could have even ended it. Yeah, like again, like you don't even have to say anything in that moment if you're if you're engaged as an audience member, you'll understand what's what the filmmaker is trying to say by showing you James Cromwell being shot in the back by guy Piers.

Like they've already touched on those themes in the movie several times, so they don't have to reiterate it again again again for you. But the movie does, and it's it's symptomatic of I think, like we've already mentioned, it's symptomatic of other things that this movie could not control at all. Yeah, I will ask you since kind of wh're you know, we've gone around the bend with La Confidential. Is this the noir movie for you? Oh?

No, no, no, no, this is a This is a modern noir. Like the noir movie for me is like the true noir movies for me are the films from the from the forties. The true noir. I mean, Citizen Kane is probably the greatest noir film. And uh, you know, even though it's probably it doesn't fit a lot of the obvious tropes, but you know, the Maltese falcon I could go like just we just did a whole Uh.

I did an episode recently on the World Is Wrong podcast about the films of John Farrow, Mia Farrow's father, and he has some real dark, brutal films. Five came back as one that that sticks with me. But no, I think, but I do think it is. It's the best nineties noir film, that's for sure. And it definitely is in the tops of the La noir that happened in the shadow of Chinatown.

So yeah, and you know, even though we've been critical of some aspects about it, none of them are deal breakers to me. I'll watch this film again in the next few years, and again you know, this is one of my movies that I will go back to over and over right, well, and I agree with I agree with you. I will revisit this movie probably frequently and often because it's it's a great movie. I enjoyed it immensely, And yeah, I have other noir movies that motivate me more, but this is one that's just like easy to put on. I mean, it's not that it doesn't ask much of you as an audience member, but it does a lot of the heavy lifting.

Yeah, it does what a good Hollywood movie should do. It just it takes you from takes you from scene or action, just scene to action. But it's surprising in the way it does it. And even when you know that stuff's coming, the film is so well put together that it still has the capacity to surprise or move you. Yeah, and you know, I think also the cast, I mean elevates this higher up than so many other kind of things that I've seen, because again, it's so well cast and so perfectly put together that like that in and of itself, makes it one to revisit because of the cast alone, just the three leads of the movie, and then add on James Cromwell, and I mean we didn't even mention Danny DeVito is in the movie as well.

He's a bit in a bit part, and yeah, he's fantastic, but you know, it's kind of a you know, he shows up a couple of times and there you go. I mean, he shows up a couple of times. He's not a main character, but even he's perfectly cast. So yeah, this this is a movie that I'm really glad I finally sat down and watched. I really enjoyed it.

So well, that's a great be getting to our movie friendship, turning each other onto films that we haven't seen. That it's your turn to turn me onto something. Yeah. No, I'm gonna have to think, uh, think about it and uh and and come up with something. Yeah, I don't uh, I don't know.

I'll have to think. I'm not trying it'll it'll come up naturally in I gotta I gotta think, yeah, because I I I do have a nothing has come out yet organically, because that's the thing you kind of mentioned. This watching La Compidential kind of came out of a conversation that we had organically. Neither one of us went into that conversation expecting that La Confidential was even going to come up, So you know, that's that's the fun thing about it. And yeah, like you mentioned, you were like, oh, La Confidential is like I've never seen it, and it's like you need to watch it, and you're like, you're totally right.

I did need to watch it, and it is. It is that good of a movie. And if you have not seen it and you have stuck around to the end of this episode, you should have watched it already. Who we just ruined it for you the way through it by now. Yeah, we ruined it for you, but you also could have gotten two thirds of the way through the movie by now.

So so so yeah, no. Andress final final thoughts on Kitchen com or Kitchen Confidential. That's a different show. That's a different show entirely and a book actually. Andress final thoughts on La Confidential.

Yeah, it's it's just a great gateway film to a lot of fantastic artists. I hope it and I courages people to check out more of Curtis Hansen's work. I you know, we all, you know, we've all had a lot of Guy Pearce and Kevin Spacey and Russell Crowe in the interim. But if you are a fan of any of their work, I think you said at the beginning, this might be the best thing from any of them, including James Cromwell. And yeah, so we had we've lodged some of our misgivings, but as I said before, none of them matter when you're watching the film.

They matter when you are going to do a podcast and have to talk about the film. But none of these things are deal breakers for me and my enjoyment of the film. And there's so much that's good there that, Yeah, I encourage everyone to check it out. And as I said before, there's a lot we didn't get into in this about the translation from book to screenplay, and they did a great job on the Projection Booth podcast about that. So lots of La confidential to explore for you out there.

Yeah, and I'm in the same kind of camp, you know. This is a This is a great movie that I'm glad I finally got around to watching, and I enjoyed it immensely. And yeah, I think for me, the three leads I have not seen Kevin Spacey, Guy Pearce and Russell Crowe in I'm not like huge fans of their filmographies, but this is a massive success between the three of them, and then outside of the three of them, everything else is so well cast, well thought out, well done, even with an actress who again I just normally I'm not gravitating towards she's she's fantastic. So yeah, I know, I I enjoyed this movie imenseally and I'm glad I finally sat down and watched it because it's a it's a really good movie, So I mean this even better than really good.

Yeah, well what is really I still to your point from that episode of your show, I wish they had done the third movie. Oh, like I know, maybe it would have redeemed the two Jakes a little bit like that. That for me, ultimately is the sad thing about that that movie is that there's no third movie to kind of hang the hat on and say, well, second one was kind of middle of the road, but the third one brought it all back. We never got that opportunity, so it is kind of kind of a book. But speaking of that, can you imagine like they could do an LA Confidential two with uh, you know, with ex Ley and Bud White because they're still both aliveh you know, like La like as them as old LA cops in the radies.

I don't know, Yeah, I would watch that. I mean, hell, I would watch that in a heartbeat. Why not? They're both I mean pretty much most of the principal cast of the movie is all of the principal cast of the movie is still round. So yeah, I don't know.

I mean, hey, if James Elroy didn't like the movie anyways, why not just do whatever the hell you want with the next thing. I mean, if he already is just going well it's a loss because I don't like it, I mean, then just you know, do whatever the hell you want. I would. I'd be game. I'd watch more, I'd watch I'd watch whatever.

Guy Pearson Russell Crowe doing this again, I think that, Yeah, that could be interesting for sure. So cool well so so andros. If people want to check out your show and the things that you work on, where can they go, Well, go to the World is wrongpodcast dot com. That's the website, or you just look up the World is Wrong Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. I also have a podcast called the Radio eight Ball Show or just Radio eight Ball All one word with the number eight, and that's a musical divination show where we answer questions by picking songs at random and interpreting them like musical tarot cards.

And you can find out all about me, my music, my films, my books, my podcasts at my own website, which is previously yours dot com. Also you can get there just by searching for Andros Jones dot com. And again, thanks for having me on the podcast. No, thank you for joining me. You know, it's been it's been fun, and it's it's not often I get to have a new person on the show, so I obviously really I really enjoy it so and I enjoy the candor and your opinion and you being kind of like, let's watch this movie.

I'm like, yeah, let's do it. So no, I'm I'm I'm totally. I'm totally on board with wherever we go from here. But if you want to hear more of what I've already done, head on over to Weirdingwaymedia dot com, which is the podcast network that I co founded with Mike White, and we have plenty of shows, including the Culture Cast, the Projection Booth, all kinds of things to check out, all great podcasts, worth listening to. You can find them all at Weirdingwaymedia dot com.

As for this show, culturecast dot com, Patreon dot com, slash Culturecast, big thanks as always to our Patreon supporters. August on the Culturecast right now is Mickey Warkmonth, which was programmed by a Patreon supporter, So if that's something you want to do, pick the movies we watch. That's where you can go to do it. Andras, thank you so much again for joining me. This has been fantastic.

Yes it has. I've had a blast and I hope we get to do it again soon and h and as always, we'll catch you on the next episode.