Forgotten Lady

Welcome to the Shabby Detective, yet another Columbo podcast. I'm your host. Mike White joined me, of course, is mister Chris Tashue, Am, I though you haven't some memory problems there. I might be such an interesting name, but I just can't seem to remember it. Good Lord, we are kicking off season five of Colombo with Forgotten Lady.

Originally aired September fourteenth, nineteen seventy five. This is a ninety three minute episode directed by Harvey Hart, written by William Briscoll, starring Janet Lee as Grace Wheeler. And she's married to Sam Jeff a very familiar face as her husband, Henry Willis. And she is a former musical star whose career might be reignited by a series of films that are very close to the That's Entertainment series of movies from I think that was MGM, but in this case it's all universal Baby, and we're talking about walking my Baby back Home, which they call walking my Baby. I think I don't know why they had to change the title of that, but that was with Donald O'Connor and Janet Lee.

But Donald O'Connor was not available for this, so they ended up having I think it's John Payne as Ned Diamond, her partner with the old Diamond and Wheeler films, which apparently were very popular. This episode feels like a lot of other episodes cobbled together, but we'll definitely get to that as we talk about this. Chris, I'm very curious, what did you think of Forgotten Lady Boy. You use the term cobbled there perfectly. This does feel like a melunge, as it were of other episodes of this show that we've seen before.

Not like in a bad way per se, but definitely in a we can tell way. Look, I don't know if it hurts or helps us by watching the film chronologically. I don't know if it hurts my ability to enjoy the show or it helps it or something in between. But I will say watching the show chronologically we get a little bit of Colombo every month, and because I'm being dripped fed Columbo, I haven't not had Columbo around in the last two years, so I feel like I remember enough of these episodes to be able to say, oh, yeah, this is very similar to X, Y or Z. Yes, this is very similar to things we've seen before.

There's a interesting twist in here. Where we see the episode end up. But I thought it was fine. It's a little bit of a cop out, right in what way the way the episode concludes, right. It's definitely one of the most different endings that we've had, especially to this point.

I think because her like losing her memory and everything like that's It's not that I didn't expect it, but that definitely adds a weird wrinkle into the episode that feels a little unrealistic, even for Colombo. Does that make sense? I don't really see it as be that unrealistic. I thought that was an interesting turn to make your antagonist much more sympathetic and to allow us to really step into Colombo's shoes and the way that he deals with things. At the end of it, I thought was a very nice way of ending it.

I wasn't expecting her to be like losing her mind. They did a good job, I thought, with the way that she'll forget things and then that she cannot remember Columbo's name, and then you get some of the anger, like we see people with Alzheimer's or dementia having a lot of anger issues, especially because they can't remember things, and then projecting out and saying Oh, this guy's the worst dancer and he's terrible, And it's no, you can't remember the steps, but you can't admit that to yourself because you don't see yourself having a problem. And she really doesn't see herself ever having a problem. She's been blissful ignorance through this whole thing, to the point where I don't think she ever remembers committing the crime.

By the end of the episode, the way that her old partner steps in and confesses and she gets angry at him, not because he's trying to take the blame, but because I think she honestly thinks he killed her husband when she's the one that murdered the husband. Yeah, And that's the part of the episode that I think is the most interesting for me, is the idea of the partner stepping in to take responsibility for something he didn't do. Would someone actually do that? I like the whole thing of this is going to be an easy story to break, and it might take a couple months and then Columbus, Yep, it might. And I like that Columbo's basically in on it, that he's I know you're what you're doing, and I can see that and I think Columbo respects it, honestly.

At the end of the day, he's doing it because he loves her so much, and there's something deeply romantic about it, obviously. But at the same time, I know it's a strange episode of Colombo, is it not, because to your point, the fact that you're led to believe that it's going to be just the usual. Oh, she murdered her husband and she's terrible and that's it, and it ends up not being that pretty quickly on like it takes I think about twenty three minutes for to show up. It's an hour and thirty seven minutes. We get an hour and ten of and I think for the most part he's used rather well.

We don't get a lot of eater falk isms in this episode, which I did appreciate. He loves being himself, as they would say, and he loves highlighting his actor friends, and I'm glad there wasn't any of that in this episode because this is a long episode on top of everything else. It is hour in forty minutes. And really they could cut it down very easily, not suggesting that they do, because I do like the side plot of him not going to the gun range and renewing his testing and stuff through the police department and having IA come in, and then towards ag end. We talked recently about the rules of three.

So you got the here's the setup, here's the IA guy coming in internal affairs, so you better fucking do this, Klombo, or else are gonna get kicked out the force. And then him paying off a guy five whole dollars to go take the test for him. I thought that was pretty nice. Which is hilarious that he pays somebody five dollars you go take Yeah, if it'll be fine, But sure. We don't really get the payoff for that, but I just assume that he's okay now and doesn't have to worry about taking the test for a few years.

But we've never seen Columbo use his gun anyways. No, no, nor does he ever want to. So why does he? Yeah, because he's a cop, right, And I guess there are some folkisms, like him eating ice cream with his dog. Yeah, having the return of dog was interesting.

I was glad for that, and they play it well, especially with him up in the tree and everything. I thought that was nice. Yeah, those are nice moments, but they don't take up like too much time. No, it's not like wandering around the hospital or some of these other things, or waiting for the computer print out. All.

Yeah, those were painful. This not so bad. But talking about this episode feeling familiar. The idea of the movie projector, that's one thing that they can use the movie projector as a timekeeping device, and that can be used as the way to prove that she missed what was it fifteen minutes, That there's fifteen minutes of missing time here, and would definitely get missing time as one of the things throughout so many Colombo episodes. But I thought this was very nice the way that they used that, the way that she can splice the movie, fix the movie within just a few minutes of time, and that Colombo futzes with the film in order for it to break so that he can prove to himself and to her partner like how quickly she can make this repair.

I thought that was pretty good. I also the idea of the television being another source of time that so reminded me of the old lady who was watching TV when Martin Landau threw the appliance into the bath and killed his uncle. I was like waiting for there to be a disruption on the TV signal, for them to be like, oh, yeah, the TV went out at one point, but no, it's just Johnny Carson takes this long. But it starts at eleven thirty, it ends at one o'clock, so we all know exactly what that period of time is. It was interesting to have Maurice Evans as the butler because he's barely in this, but Maurice Evans is a great actor and very well known.

Obviously doctor SaaS everybody knows, but even things like it was Maurice and be Witch, and he also was a villain in a Batman. He had been like a legit guy. To just show up as the butler, it feels like a real thankless role for him. Very strange. I didn't understand.

I understood in as much as like we needed somebody to play the role, but why him of all people? Yeah? Janet Lee is. Great though, Oh she's amazing. But what a surprise, right, Yeah, exactly Janet Lee.

First episode of the fifth season a Colombo, and she's great. I'd be more surprised if she wasn't. Exactly. I kept being surprised, how young Maurice Evans's wife is because he's married to the maid, right right? Okay?

Yeah, because I kept looking at her, going she's not very old whatsoever, Like she looks like his daughter's age. If I were to try to figure them out, if I saw them walking down the street. Yeah, I don't get it because he's like, this is my wife, and I was like, wait, what, wait a second? What? KEM very confused here?

Had she been the age of the old lady maid or whatever her role was. I think she was made in that Martin Lando episode and she was watching that television program with Mark Singer on it. Yeah. How did you feel about John Payne as her partner? I thought he was good.

I really wish that they had been able to have somebody more well known, like a Donald O'Connor or somebody that we see in the film, because I like that they used the film as a constant reference point. And it's so cool that it's Janitly in the film as well as Janetly in the Columbo episode, so we're able to go back and forth between those and I thought, oh, that would have been nice had it been her partner from the movie as the partner in real life. I like him again as a thankless role because he's just there to try to help her and try to understand her. Same thing with Jaffy. That's the reason why she kills Jaffe is because he won't support her whole comeback thing, because otherwise there's no real reason to kill him.

No, there's not. I just saw John Payne in a miracle on thirty fourth Street, which is oh nice, trying to remember why he looks so familiar. I think to your point, I just wish he was given more to do. Same. I wish he was given more to do with her because they talk about he admits to killing her husband because of how he feels about her.

This is there's a reason why he does what he does, and befuddles me that the movie isn't more interested in talking about that, Like I guess the episode doesn't. Really, the episode is more interested in other things than it is telling us the story about why this guy would admit to killing her husband if he'd in fact didn't do it. Oh yeah, Like we get this whole thing of Jaffy saying when we married, I knew you did love me. Basically, I know you married me for my money pretty much. But we are pretty good partners and we get along and all this.

I would have loved to have had more about how Diamond and Wheeler were a couple in real life and what happened to them. Yeah, I totally agree with you. They should have used him a little bit more and had more of that story to it. And again it would have been all told through dialogue, but even to have more of him trying to protect her or maybe being angry after being more confused by her confusion. The whole thing of this is one of the best dancers that's out there.

How can you say he doesn't know his steps and then maybe it finally starting to dawn on him a little bit more that she's going through some mental problems. We get that, but just not enough of it. No, they don't make a big enough deal about it. I understand what they're trying to do, like they're trying to not let the twist out, but at the same time, like I think they wait too long. In my opinion, I think they should have let us know that early on, because again, like with Columba, we expect that somebody's gonna get arrested by the end of the episode and that doesn't happen.

It does, but it also is a complete one to eighty from what we're used to, and I wish that the episode had done more leading up to that, as opposed to just resting on its laurels that's what it does, which I mean, again, it's fine. It is a complete in the typical formula of Colombo, but I felt like there was money left on the table with this episode that this show tends to not do. Watching how spry Janet Lye is pretty great. You see her jumping out the window, jumping. Out the window, and I know that they did a Texas switch with the drop off of the branch, and apparently the person that was her stunt person actually broke their ankle doing that drop, which I'm shocked because I'm like, how many pads did they have down underneath that tree?

They should have had a ton, Like what the hell? Man? Yeah, I read that as well, and I was like, well, I'm glad Janet Lee didn't do it, I. Guess, but yeah, she looks fantastic all in the body suit and everything, and yeah, she's at the beginning of this episode, she's firing on all cylinders, so to see her slowly not be able to handle the mental strain. It's really sad for me.

And that's the thing. Obviously. This is an episode that in a lot of ways, it's speaking to a problem that is existing now with a lot of people our age or older getting old and this becoming like a thing that they're either dealing with themselves or they're dealing with family members. And yeah, Alzheimer's and dementia's pretty nasty. It's pretty awful in terms of the things that one could be put through, And honestly wish that they had showed more of that, show the actual toll that this is taking, because again they use it as a twist to get themselves out of a corner that they've painted themselves into.

But at the same time, I don't know, if you're gonna humanize the villain, why not just go full hog and just really humanizer. I don't understand why you wouldn't. That's funny because we've seen a starlet like an entitled starlet once before. Yeah, it was one where that she killed her husband and put them under the fountain. Right, Yeah, so you've we've had that, and I've thought I think I thought in that episode about how far didn't like women Killers.

He was just like, no, it's not nearly as fun. This makes it twice not as fun because you can't root for him to catch her because as you can get to see her losing her mind, you're just like, that would be awful if he takes her away. Obviously, he never takes her way in handcuffs, never takes anybody weigh in handcuffs. But if he were to do that gotcha moment at the end of this episode, oh, it would be awful. She would just be so confused at that and you would feel so terrible about her that you can't root for him to catch her in this episode.

And like all those little gotcha moments, he doesn't tend to do those to her. He tends to do those to Maury Seven's or to her partner, And I think, really he's the one. The partner is the one that Colombo has to convince. Rather than Colombo saying listen, Ja, I know that you did this, and have those little like needles all the time, it's really like him trying to convince. I guess it's Diamond that Wheeler is not fully there anymore.

Yeah, it's a very different and interesting premise than what we're used to with this show. But I liked it well enough. I think it did, like you've already alluded to, feel a little bit like treading old ground, which neither here nor there really Again, with the show like this, they're going to run out at some point of directions to go. I don't think they've run out of directions yet, but this seems like a very similar path to tread, given the treading you've done before, Like you already mentioned with the episode with the woman burying her husband under the fountain, like that's very similar to this. Mm hmm.

And I think we've had we had two projection things, because we had Chuck McCann for Robert Culp and then I'm trying to remember we definitely projection when it came to the Passavetti's one with the movie versus the footage, the news footage playing versus the playback of the concert kind of thing. But it feels like there was another movie projector type of thing, and for sure in this one it's right there. But yeah, and then the servants and everything, and again she's not mean to the servants. She's not a mean person. She just wants her career back, and you can understand that, especially because we see her at the premiere of that's entertainment thing, and it's like, Oh, if there's a time for a comeback, this is it.

She just wants that comeback. But I know that Jeffy recognizes he's got the medical report. He's got two medical reports, right, He's got one about him having a bad prostate, and he doesn't care about that because he knows it's a simple procedure. And then he's got the other one about quote unquote Rosie his code name for her, because he wants to protect her at all costs. Every man in this episode wants to protect her, even Colombo.

Right, which, again to your point about Peter Falk not liking female killers, you must really have hated this episode then, because that's a female killer centric episode. Oh yeah, before Colombo coming in, just completely asleep, heece forgotten everything. I don't even have my dadge does have his badge, does have his pencil. We all know how he can't keep track of that pencil. But yeah, he's just woken up in the middle of the night.

And yeah, to your point, we don't get a lot of we get a little bit of him supposed to have brought his wife to that dinner sair that they end up having. But you would think he would be gushing over Janet Lee just kind of. Right is, but not nearly as. Much as you would think, like he gushed over that other starlet quite a bit more. Maybe it's just not in the musicals.

Probably that I just don't like me musicals, all right, Columbo whatever. Get to finally find out his movie tastes. Yeah, I just don't like movies probably, gosh, yeah, yeah, Columba just doesn't like movies. Yeah, I believe that. And even when it comes to the book that gives him and I love when it goes to the bookstore and finds out when the book was bought.

Gosh, no one would be able to do that with me, because a lot of times I will buy a book and it will take me like four or five, twenty thirty years to finally read it. But Jaffy with his I'm going to read twenty five pages a night and then dog ear the page. That's so reminded me of the British episode where the guy had that book but then he dog eared the page and it's you know, like a person who reads these kind of books doesn't dog ear a page, whereas with this one, it's the flip and he's dog air in these pages every twenty five pages. But this night they didn't read the twenty five pages, and that what's the comic novel? And the comic novel that the guy's reading is going to cause him to commit suicide or suddenly gets depressed.

There's no reason for him to have committed suicide. Basically, No, I love how she kills her husband. And then it's but why did he kill himself? Oh, you're so depressed about his prostate. No he wasn't.

Yeah, I so, No, he knows this is a simple procedure. It's okay. And also, you don't take sleeping pills or you're gonna kill yourself. Yeah, it's like that fell apart way too quickly. Right.

Yeah, it's a weird episode structurally because I think to your point, it is more about Columbo just trying to convince somebody something as opposed to catching the killer as it were. Yeah, a friend of mine and I watch it and she was like, is that how all the episodes of the show go? And I was like, no, not really. Frankly, this is a anomaly. This is one of three episodes that are like this where he doesn't catch the killer in the end quote unquote.

And of course there's always that begrudging respect for your Donald Pleasance or Johnny Cash kind of things. But he's got the respect, but it's not for grudging. This is a very different situation. And again I understand why Colombo does what he does, but I also think they could have milked it more to have it it actually be a hard decision for him to make, right because we understand why he does what he does, but there should have been a moment of him actually like figuring out what decision he wants to make, is the best way of putting it. Yeah, And I like that decision is really taken away from him by the partner.

Normally I would say he should probably go down to Bert's and get a bowl of chili and talk to Burd about it and make up his mind that way. But we haven't had Bert for quite a few seasons now. Nope, no bowls a chili, no bird. So just to Colombo making decisions on the fly and us just having to be part and parcel to it as it happens. Not a lot to talk about with this one.

No, not really. This was not a bad episode of the show. It just left me wanting a lot because it decided to take some interesting avenues that I wasn't expecting it to take, and in it taking those avenues, I wanted it to go further down them and it didn't. And so it's just don't tease me like that. M Yeah.

The whole thing too, of it being a locked room and there's that whole sure lock holmes. Of them. Yeah, locked door mysteries. Nothing. They saw that in the first five minutes.

Yeah, as soon as you see Colombo hanging from that tree, you're like, Okay, I guess it's not that hard. Yes, they figured it out. Yeah, I guess Columbo can hang from a tree, so it's not the big of a fucking deal. Mm hmm. But does he talk about the footprints down below?

I think so, yeah, Okay, good, yeah, because I couldn't remember him doing that, because, yeah, if you drop from that distance, you're going to leave a really big divot ground. Yeah. This is not a bad way to start the fifth season, but we've seen better opening episodes. For seasons in the past, that's for sure. Oh, by the end of the season, we're going to be begging for an episode like this, the final episode of this season.

Good Lord, But we're gonna have some good things between now and then. We're gonna have Hector Elizondo playing an Arabic person. We're going to have the return of Patrick McGowin and Leslie Nilsen. Playing an Arabic person. We're gonna have Ricardo Montlebon and a question of Machismo, and we're going to have Jack Cassidy back, the wonderful Jack Cassidy.

Really, I think you're going to enjoy that one quite a bit. And then we end it with a last salute to the Commodore, which I think might be universally heated as an episode, so should be interesting. Good. Yes, we have two seventy minutes in here, and the rest of them are plus that. The one of them is eighty five minutes, which is a weird time.

So I guess thing ran out of ideas in that one. Yeah, So yeah, until we come back next month to talk about a case of immunity. I want to thank John Walker for doing our opening theme and Colin Gallagher for doing our closing theme, and I want to thank you Chris for coming along with me on this journey of Colombo. What are you up to these days, sir? It's working on audio diversions over Weirdingwaymedia dot com.

That's where everything that I work on can be found. And yeah, if you want to engage with us, either financially or non financially, Weirdingwaymedia dot Com is the best way to go about doing it. What about you, Mike, Oh, pretty much the same thing overapp Weirdingwaymedia dot Com. All the things that I do are over there, except for the one thing that you, me and Richard HadAM do, which is ranking on Bond, which is available through our Patreon where you can also get episodes of this show dropped a little bit early sometimes, so patreon dot com slash Projection Booth and patreon dot com slash culture Cast come on over, and if you're remember at the ten dollars and above level, you get access to ranking on Bond, where once a month we talked about James Bond films.

Thanks again for listening and we will catch you next month.