Cagney & Lacey with Sharon Gless

Hello, and welcome to eighties TV Ladies. I'm Sharon Johnson and I'm Susan Lambert Hadham. Let's get started. We are so joyful to be continuing our deep dive into Cagney and Lacy, the female driven buddy police show that ran from nineteen eighty two to nineteen eighty eight, and it proved that women could be buddies under pressure. A few episodes ago, we talked to the creator, Barney Rosensweig, then tyed Daily, and now the incredible eighties TV Lady Christine Cagney herself.

Actress Sharon Glass Miss Gless is a multi Emmy and Golden Globe winning screen and stage actress. She may be best known for her role as Cagney in the eighties TV ladies phenomenal show Cagney and Lacy, but she also played the title role in the Trials of Rosie O'Neill. She also played the dirty mouth loving mom to a gay son, Debbie Navatney for five years in the daring American version of Queer as Folk on Showtime, and then a tougher but still loving mother Madeline Weston on burn Notice as the last contract player at Universal Studios Gless also guest starred and co starred in many of TV's top rated series of the seventies and eighties, including The Rockford Files, The Bob Newhart Show, Marcus Wilby, MD, House Calls, and Switch.

Miss Glasses also starred on the stage in major theatrical productions including Misery Chapter two and Round Healed Woman, and she is an author as well. Gless's award winning autobiography, Apparently There Were Complaints, was published by Simon and Schuster in December twenty twenty one. Apple Audio Books named it a must listen. Publishers Weekly called Gless a masterful storyteller, and I call it a fantastically fun read. She's been married to Barney Rosenswige, the executive producer Cagney and Lacy, and a guest of this show since nineteen ninety one.

Welcome Sharon, Thank you so much for joining us at eighties TV ladies. Thank you, thank you very much for having me to ask me, how are you doing today? Doing very well. I'm very happy. I've been looking forward to doing this with you, and I'm very blessed.

I'm physically well, and I've had a wonderful career and intend to continue to do so. Somebody did an article on me. You know, I've been doing this book and I'm doing interviews, and this band interviewed and he said, you know that you've done more television series. You've done nine television series. You and Chloris Leachman the only two.

I'm gonna do nine. I said, wow, I didn't know that, and he said, yeah. The only personal beat here it was Betty White. He's done, he's done it. He said, well, I'm gonna have to meet the match Betty that he has gone to the great you know, mca in Sky.

But I still have one more in me. So I don't intend to beat Betty, but I'd like to match her. Yeah, I would like to see that. If I had to beat Betty, that means the next where I tried wouldn't work, right, and none, I'd do another one. I'm happy to just match her.

You don't want to jinx anything. No. Actually brings me to a question. Actually I had correct me if I'm wrong, But it sounds like moving to Florida has really not had an impact on your ability to continue working in television and working in general. Is that correct?

Correct? And very blessed I moved to Florida because that sort of hasn't wanted to go. He wanted to retire, and he had a belief that you cannot retire from Hollywood and live in Hollywood. So um okay, So we moved to Florida and he's very, very happy, and I married to a man. If he's happy, everybody's happy in Earth, thud of it.

But whenever I got an opportunity to work, he's the first feminist I ever met. So since I moved to Florida, I think I've done three series. So I was just free to go and travel and be and just continued to be an actress regardless of where I did. Right, But I want to go back to the first feminist you ever met? Was it really Barney's Barney ros saying Barney approached me to do this series called Cagney and Lacy, and I didn't realize seems a feminist.

My background was I've been under contract Universal for many years, ten years, and in that day and age, even though Glorious tone him had been out there swinging that bat, you know, I was not made politically aware. I was not aware of all the work that Glory was doing. While I was under contract to Universal, and when Barney asked me to do this series, I didn't want to do it, not because it was two women. I didn't want to doom the cop show anyway. He's hiring me to do Kaggie and they say I started learning.

I didn't realize the impact that this show was having. I knew it was about two women. I'd never start in the show with a woman before. It had always been with men. And what I was trying to see is I never felt there was nobody I was in competitione with.

I didn't have that drive fight fight to the female because I was like the only female. I was done when wearing a dress, So I always thought I got what I needed and what I wanted. Never occurred to me to ask what the men were making Universal. But it wasn't until I joined Cagney and Lacy and I became aware of really what a deal getting Again, I was raised only with brothers. I don't know how to explain that I was a newcomer in fighting for women's rights.

But once I Hooke joined to Kagney and Lacy and I met Barney Wilson. Swaging was the first feminist I ever men, I learned, and I had the great pleasure, in the great honor, to play Chris Kagney and to change lives for other women. Leave me, ladies. I did not know I was doing that whenever shooting Kagney and Lacy, but you were apparently it was. But do you know I didn't have the pretti of the ego to assume I was changing women's lives.

I was just doing a really cool character. Probably, I still think you don't remember saying. I still think Christine Cagneys weren't great characters ever, female characters ever written for tell overs, because she's so flawed, so flawed, and had so many layers and flawed at a time again that women just weren't given that many layers. No, no, I mean I left it. I had.

I had never been offended by any role like been given to play. I never felt any of the women I played were less than we're treated, less than we're boring, we're not interesting. But my mind wasn't like that. I wasn't in the fighting mode when I first became an actress. I was just so rachel to be working.

I do anything they'd give me, and I succeeded because I had a very powerful woman behind me. Many James ruthan talent at the Universal Studios. The reason for my success is a woman, and the reason for my longevity my career's because of the man in Bardie wears this way. But who put me on that map was a woman who was the first female vice president of MCA, and she saw something in me. She believed in me.

I was green, I didn't know anything except I knew I wanted to be an actress, and she believed me. Minnie James background was that she and her business partner Eleanor Kilgallen were the first females to have had talent agency in New York City and their first clients were Grace Kelly and Warren Beaty, Hi's women. They were young girls and they started their own talent agency and they had these two really cool actors and Lou Wasserman, he headed MCA. He decided to buy a Universal so Minnie couldn't be an angel with MCA anymore, and new Wasserman bought out Minnie James and her partner. Okay, it's the first women ever to have a dalent agency.

So Monique James and Eleanor Hillgowan became the first two female vice presidents of mc A Huge Huge. Then MCA bought Universal Studios and agents were Real Love, Real Loud at MCA to function as agents. The government game locked all their their files because you couldn't own a studio and also use your clients, right, see what I'm saying. So Manie James and Elgown became the first two female vice presidents of mc A Universal. Monique was head of Talent on the West Coast, Eleanor was head for talent on meaning East coast.

That's amazing. Yeah, and Eleanor also had the Toronto and England as her markets to pick young actors. But Mini pig Bay and I know I'm talking too much for you know, this is really fascinating because we don't talk about these women that were so groundbreaking enough. That's one of the reasons we started the show. And so I'm very curious about money, thank you, because you wouldn't want to sit here and talk to me because I'd have nothing to tell you if it had not been for her.

And you were how old when you and you were the last contract player at Universal, very last one to leave the lot. Yeah, I was. They signed me when I was twenty six, and they made me lie about my age, have one of these irish months. I was ever a great beauty, but I passed as a kid, you know. And so she said, don't tell anybody older.

I said, okay. So I worked for ten years and she groaned me, and I learned everything she taught me. I know it's in the book, but I pini it because it's steving your show. When you're a contract player, you're taken into a screening, big screen the days when they had huge screens. Young feel great to know what that means, you know.

But they had big, huge, enormous screens, and you'd be forced to sit there and watch your film. And she talked to some man, it's the kind of a movie. She talked to some man in the projection room and say, please, weren misclass and film guards covering misclass in front of me, you know, I mean in front of other people. She'd call me miss Glass and he'd run my film and I'd have to look at it, and she teld me what I was doing wrong. And she taught me had to do this thing called acting.

That is amazing that it's so hard for actors to watch themselves. I think often I happen to be an active who never watches herself. I never watch myself. But you were forced too early on I too, because one of my obligations, and to learn from her. You know, it's something you can siparate.

First, imp she didn't see that thing you're doing with your mouth. I said, yes. She says, stop doing it. I mean, heart up that and simply. And then she started teaching me to listen.

She said, do you not listening? She said, you're waiting to say you're lying. I said, yeah, I am waiting to say my life she said, And she said, Sharon, if you learned or really listen, listen to you or at your fellow partner, listen to what he's saying, your feace will change, because your feace does that, and your face will change as you're listening, and they're gonna cut to you instead of the person who's talking. And the truth is that's what acne became fun for me. I started relaxing, really listening to what some what are you saying?

And they'd either what they said may hurt me or they made me laugh or anything. I was able to drop the fear as long as I was locked in chine that fellow actor. So sorry, No, it's fantastic. Do you know if there were any other actors before you that she kind of took under her wing a little bit and helped them make the transition that she helped you make to understanding how to basically act on film the way that she taught you. Well, I know Susan Clark.

I don't know if you remember Susan Clark. Yes, very big in those days, and she was just a THEATA actress Dolin and much more training oxy than I had, and she was THEATA. But Minique believed in her, saw her And I don't know if Minique trained her because I think she came in trained, you know, but it isn't isn't theater acting different in a lot of plays than film acting in terms of you know, well, I always joke in theater actor you chalklouder, I guess there is. I mean tide daily. Primary was their background as theater and her father's and she went into the family business.

She went into acting because her parents were actings. And I think time considers herself a theater actor. If I had to discern where I excel. I still call myself a film actor. It's a different skill, or it's or they'd like to be better on film than they did on the stage.

You know, there's just a place where you land, and it's a long as somebody will listen to me or cry or laugh or I make them feel. Whatever avenue that is, I'd love to do it. I think that's in your question. No, you're very skilled. Felt a stage actor, and nat is her first love.

I, however skilled. Maybe I'm more comfortable in from of the cam one camera. I don't like those four cameras sitcoms. Oh interesting, I like my relationship with the lens. Oh, that's why it's not there.

I do know that Monique James, in the article I read about her, is also credited with discovering Robert Redford, Sharon other Sharon. Oh, Sharon's know that. That's what it was in an obituary that I read about her that they said credited with discovering you, Robert Redford and Warren Beating. They called her the starmaker. Yes, she was very formidable.

She frightened me, but she was wonderful. I loved her dairy and so she was your boss. She was cross, she was my boss Universal. She's the reason I had a chance to go to Universal. But then when my time is up at Universally, they were closing the contract system and I was the last scorn to lead, and they of course asked her to stay on at Universal and knew some other executive job, and she said she wore to skneed and could become my manager.

And so she left Universal MCA, she left to manage me. That's that's a pretty big investment. That's a pretty big honor. And I was an early guy. Wow, I bet you you both were very formidable walking into a room.

Oh I never felt I was spoiler a look, but she was scary. It was I and there was a god of myself as spoiler bowl. I'd like Summer to see me me that maybe that way in a character or something, but I don't think socially, I remember former blund shot. You never know it by how much I'm talking, but I am shot. So your last show under the contract was House Calls.

It was thank you so nice and very in debt. Interviewers actually do their whole work. Do you know we have such a good time anyway, Thank you. Yes, I left after house calls. The studio system ended after I'd been there ten years.

All the actors left and they held me back. Minique said, why are you doing this? Let her go, you know she could make some money. It's Lord Dejoe. Make any studio and they said, because we want her to do house calls to replace Lynn red Grade?

Can you imagine? And Money said, well, then make her a contract, make her a series deal instead of an exclusive contract. Very should make a little dough. So they said, all right, So I stayed at Universal that I stepped into house calls with Wayne Brodgers and you replaced Lynn red Grade. If you cannot imagine, I yes, you talk about that in your book and it's a it's some great stories that section of the book, with stories throughout the book.

It's really great stories. But in any event, Yeah, the contract system has always been very interesting in triguing and on some level, I I'm not sure if they had the option, if the studios wouldn't want to have it back because of the financial constraints that it provides to them. But I think it's expensive for studios because we got paid every week whether we worked or not. No, grant. I was paid one hundred and eighty six dollars in me I would have paid them.

I would have. People would say to me, tilt something that contract universal, you'll never be hurt from again. I say, no, pretty Sun, we know and it did the right thing. Be a contract player headed rawbacks. The producers on the lot resented hiring contract players.

They had some sweet blonde off the lot that they wanted to come into play the role. But they were shall we say, encouraged as for read the contract players. You know, got so many James, they were encouraged to see us. They did not have to hire us. The only thing we got is we got the sides, meaning that scene the night before, so we could rehearse it the night before instead of walking in and doing what used to be called a cold reaving.

Were handed the script and you were given like ten or fifteen minutes to look at it, and then you go in and you read for them. Well as a contract player, she get it to my house. Oh, all of the contraent players got the scene sent to their house the night before so you could prep. But that was that was solely the only advantage, except you got to hang out of the Westmore Makeup building, and Edith Head had her own design studio there. So you surrounded with the best, the best in business.

It doesn't mean you got to hang with them, but you were surrounded by them. You could see them across the commissary. Yes. Yes, And Edith Head once stressed me, oh, I was just gonna ask you that tell us about that. That's Usa jumping in.

She can't help herself. It's only because of beneat Chains. I'm Every contract layer on the lot got to be in Airport seventy five. Oh wow. And the reasons we got to be an airport said, never are stewards or stewartists, and they just paid if we worked.

We got to make two hundred and six dollars a week, but we were never allowed to speak. If we spoke, then they head, you gave us more. But every contract player was made a steward or stewardess in Airport seventy five. Given our little fitt I didn't care. I started a monopoly game on the set because I've never done a feature before.

It takes five hours, too light to see, you know, television it's fast, but in features it's huge. So I started this monopoly game going, and Edith Head did the stewardess's outkits, and apparently Monique has gone to Edith and said, Edith, look I've got someone. It's one of the stewarts. It's just do something to make a look a little different. So we all showed up in front of Edith Head with like camel colored A line skirts, camel colored heels, beige hose, burgundy turtleneck sweaters, and a scarf around our neck.

Fairy stewardess right, And she looked at all this and she said Sharon Gless said yes, miss it. She said, come with me. She took me back to the dressing room and she said that take off that skirt. Okay. I took it off, and she had trousers the exact same color, same gabardine, same baberdine.

She said, put these trousers on. Okay, She said her round. I like it. She said, take that thing off around your neck. He said okay, and she said pull your hair back in a pony chailt the nape of your neck.

Get the hair off hed things said okay, and she says, let me wrap this round back. So I ended up being in trousers, no blonde hair hanging down, just pulled back with that scarf, no sunny scarf around my neck. I was very tatered, which is really was my style. But she saw it and all she did was dude, that swishery and I'm it was the only stories who like that. That's amazing.

I love Monique for doing that. I love her, you know, I know. And then she asked them if I could have a close up with Karen Black, who was the female eade show, and so I had a close up two shot with her. So embarrassing anyway, but I just stood there looking stupid. And then I got a job.

While I was on that movie, Minique had had me reading for a miniseries and I got it, and I got the mini series after four readings, and I got our minishes called them Centennial. I was going to ask if it was centennial Antennial, right, yes, a period least, yeah, because we also spoke with Stephanie Zimbolist and she was in Centennial. Oh no, it wasn't Centennial, but of course she wasn't Centennial. No, it was the Immigrants and I was the female lead. So that must have been one of your breakout roles.

Then it was it was and Stephen, mocked to play the immigrant, ended up being my lover on Cagney many mid years later. I love how many people have worked on Cagney and Lacy, Like almost everybody that we talked to or we're looking at to talk to, have done something on Cagney and Lacy because it ran for so long and in particular had a lot of ladies up in the writing and directing. So I will shout out Barney for that. Yes, see we had a female director, we had Karen. You're gonna be talking to Karvin right, yes, Renard, Yeah, I'll tell you the numbers.

Do you want to know the numbers on Cagney and Lacy because we like to do the numbers on the shows we cover, and how many women were sort of behind the camera. Yes, And Cagney Lacy is by the way off the charts. We've only looked at really closely at three shows so far, but out of forty two directors listed on IMDb, thirteen were female directors. That's thirty one percent. It's way higher than anybody else in the eighties as far as as we know so far, like significant, So shout out to Barney and the whole team for that.

He did it, as I say, I wasn't. I gained all the knowledge and the experience and all the things I didn't know about feminism because of that show. I was exposed to that that fight which women had to do. I was so protected at Universal. I never start with another woman.

I'd learned nothing about the female struggle in our industry and in the world until I did Kayne and Lacy. And so what was there a moment? Was there a moment, whether you were doing publicity or someone came up to you or doing the show that you went is somebody torch of this story? No about me playing a claimed publicity? No a gambra, I give you a story.

Fantastic. My publicist on Kangney and Lacy was a wonderful name, Pat Kingsley. And Pat said Sharon that we're going to be doing um public service announcements for you to encourage women to register to vote. I said, great, I said, I should really get brachstered. I swear to God, and if Here's time has been out there, you know I'm a rich Barney sister.

Bat. I think Sharon Barney series. I think Sharon is interested in getting work politically involved. That means she's considering getting a registered I'm so ashamed to Joe these stories that I had of a long way it was not handed to women. I was raised by a mom who worked, and you know, she was a single mom, two daughters, and she was a scientist.

She worked for CDC in Atlanta, and that was like, she never talked about it. She wouldn't have called herself a feminist. But my sister and I both grew up going like knowing about it, and then from my sister who was older than me, that she she she trained me up pretty quick too, because she was off to college before me. And it was the time of Glorious Dynham and it was out there. But I think unless you had a world in which you're watching your mom not be able to buy house even though she has a great job because the bank wouldn't loan her money, I was like, that doesn't seem right.

You're like, you're just like hmmm. But I think unless you had an excuse or reason, or we're growing up in that and handed that. A lot of women weren't handed that. No, weren't handed that they had that they were up against a wall. They just didn't know it.

Yeah, I think I had a credit card with lost. Women didn't have a credit card because they your husband could have a credit card. Yeah, but I had a credit card, I think long before most women did. I don't know how I got them, because I ended get married till ever stitch d. There were just all kinds of things I took for granted.

I didn't know how bad it was until I was lucky enough to get kidding and racy. I'm so blessed and I didn't even know. I'll tell you this story of me being a book. But Tid and I were invited to march on Washington during the Young Bush. And there we were in the front row carrying the batter with thousands of poundands of women behind us, and Whibby Goldberg was there in Glory Steinham.

We were in the front row carrying this thing and maybe hundreds of thousands of women and maybe five men, one of them was Barting morosins Way, and we were taking on this stage. It's the stage where far far away is the Washington Monument. Okay, that's where we or I didn't have any idea well we were doing or the impact the Cagnian they see had had is really when I'm trying to save you, and Gloria came to me and said, go out there. I said, go out there. Look at time to time't you She said, go out there?

Share. I said, what do I say? You know my dialogue had not been written from me for I say. She said, just go out there, time go there. So if I remember, I walked out to this and time followed me.

They were crazy. They started screaming and clapping and tenies of thousands of them. And I didn't know why that it was because of what we had done, and I didn't know. I didn't know the impact we were having. I got it then I got it.

Then we didn't have Mike, so I just waved. So thank you. You know we were out stage and relieve it. I hope you understand the moment I'm describing you. I do.

You're making me cry, and you know it's it's a it's a everybody's used to having access to everything now and then it was not. I didn't know. Yeah, you were working at me about us. Yeah, you were working how many hours a week and you know how many weeks a year trying to making this television show and there was no social media, there wasn't Internet. It's totally understandable.

I didn't know how could I say to them, thank you. I didn't have Mike. But Glory, you know, she knew exactly what you do it, and um, I didn't. I was surprised. I recognized this and walked out on this stage with I mean people were miles back at the Washington Monument, you know, like like it like it was the thing, the president inauguration.

I mean it was anyway. That was the way I learned that we had impact. I was given the gift to playing that part, and the whole time I was doing it, I never knew that I was giving a gift. I was just lucky. I knew I was giving the gift of it's okay to say you're an alcoholic, it's okay to Mark.

I knew that was a rough one and no one who'd ever done that before, no female in character and then me in real life. Um. But then, I don't mean how I got on this except well, we were, Yeah, we were talking about was there a moment and I think that was the moment where you went, oh, I'm I'm doing more than just playing a character on a TV show. Did you end up carrying that back to the show with you, Like did you feel like, oh boy, we better be careful now. Like I don't know if you felt that responsibility in the when you were doing it or were you able to set that aside.

I always felt the responsibilities and actor, you did need to fight this shot. I could. I didn't. I wasn't. I never carried the responsibility that I have to represent women properly.

U. I guess in my performance I did. She was a difficult character. She you know, we marry Beth Lacey, her rolled down her sleeves and straightened her bow and everything should go see the lieutenant. And I'm sorry whatever you always said this she had andres saould be the first female police commissioner and he didn't follow the rules.

And um no, I never knew that I was giving women permission to do this same thing. Yeah, go get a job where there are no women, that's what you want, because there were no women in the police business when Type Night we're in it. No partners ever, never female partners. Yeah, and no female work friendship on television, no like that was that And even now it's rare. We were talking about the show, like you know, obviously Rizzo and Aisles and shows that are kind of clearly following in the footsteps.

There's also friendship show Sex in the City and things like that now. But at the same time, it was so that I do remember, you know, watching it and just the normalcy of two women having a conversation about both work and their personal feelings about that work. Right, Susan Kenney and they see were not friends. They were not friends. They could have been more socially different.

Kny and got children and you know Mary her husband, her children. Kathy Kenny was sleeping around Kathy Academy was ambitious. Mary Beth wasn't ambitious. She wanted it and put it in her twitney and get the retirement fund to help her family. That's who she was.

She was a great cart Lacey was but they were never friends. But their lives depended on each other. Their lives depended on each other. They were partners, but they were never friends and socialize with each other. She'd be so bored going over there and pretending she was playing with the children.

She did it sometimes, Kay, But m Barney used to say in a fairer world, those two women could have worked at the post office. Yeah, didn't Marr because they were never They weren't pals, say that, he said him. The police situation was better because their lives were at steak. It was more interesting, more dramatic. Immediately they were pals now tie day and night today, our best friends.

We worked when we were shooting the show. Not because we didn't love each other and more so respect each other, but we didn't have time to be pals. There was no time. It was a lot of long hours, you know, horse around after work. She had children she was trying to raise, and she'd be getting home at midnight, dinner room.

But we loved we supported each other. Yeah, you were partners, were Caddy stuff that a lot of the press trying to say so Caddy. You know they don't get along and we're much better friends today. Yes, she said that you were competitive with her. I am for what for coming out?

She's when I said you were coming on the show, she says, she's so competitive. Oh, well, I'm equally happy to be inviting you. Yes, we're very happy to have you, and I love that. Again, Sharon and I have been friends for a long time. Melissa and I have been friends for a long time, and that ability to be able to sort of work with your friends and create with your friends is pretty special.

But one of the things, you know, I think I got subliminally more than with direct knowledge at the time and watching Cagney and Lazy And is the idea that these were two professional women. They were two very different people, but it showed that you could be You didn't have to be a certain way to do this job. You didn't have to be a certain type of woman to be a police officer or to be a feminist. It just had to do with are you competent? Can you get the job done?

And it's something I to this day really appreciate about the show. Jared, I don't remember are ever discussing feminism on the show? Yeah, it was not part of our what we talked about. I guess we were showing ay, it can be done, it can happen, come on, Yeah, And we never talked about I don't ever remember even talking about how the guys are getting better than we are and we didn't pound that stick. We just did it.

There may have been some areas where it's sort of for lack of a better word, indirectly infiltrated into the storytelling. I'm thinking in particular about the episode where there was another cop who was physically abusing his wife and the two of you were like, did we bring this up? Because it was more but it was more about we're all cops and do we how do we deal with that? Because that's sensitive as opposed to I think anything else initially, but the goal for the two of you was always find the person who committed the crime and see to it the justice system punishes them. That's what your goal was.

And we can do it to depend on these guys, yes, exactly, Yeah, and we can do it. Yeah. And it was saying the job. Sure. Time brought that up because that's the only place we could as two women talk alone because we were minority.

Yeah, and I love it was so interesting how they brought you on the show and if we can talk about you came on. You were the third Cagnet. I don't know if you felt a pressure or what you felt. Well, I was asked first, so that sort of gave me a little bit of an ego better um, and I of course turned it down. And Barney as Barney said, actors are not always the best judges of material, and so it went to the Ready Switt and then it went to a series at the time already did it and Loretta had to go back to Mash.

So Barney approached me again and I couldn't do it because I was going to do house calls. So Loretta came in and did it. Meg Foster came in and did it for the show. Yeah, Meg Foster fostered wonderful, wonderful actors came in and did it. And the network didn't care for the Parry that there wasn't enough contrast, so made sad and was replaced as time loved Mate.

So you can imagine here I come the third Cagney sign and Barney invites me it And do you know this story Mary Sinster back blind in New York to find out a house calls because he did tell that story. He told the story that he knew and I felt like it was such a producer moment, like a like it was such I know, I have a piece of information that I get to well, I was an house caused right to meet lives in New York, Yes, to find out if house calls is on the skitch over the next year finds out it isn't see falls and my manager. She says, I'm sorry to Barney dear, I'm child you. Sharon is in household and he said that means he said in household. He got her inspired.

So that is such a that is such a producer moment. I have a piece of information and I'm going to use it to get what i want. Yeah. Um so, anyway, did all work out? Finally don came right to this house.

I invited her because we had billing. We had to talk about um, and that's one story. But we sat right in this house and she brought champagne and then we agreed. We really liked each other like for another. We worked out the building and the rest is history.

I was very fortunate and very blessed to work with her, and I do love that the episode, you know, the first episode of the second season where it's it's the two of you, it's a big conflict, like you start right off and in conflict a little bit as as Marybeth and Christine because you're I think it's the one where where there's been a shooting and whether which of you saw a gun or but if you're going to back up another cop, And it was just so interesting that it was such a great way, but it felt like the deep end. It felt like you guys jumped into the deep end of those characters. And that show right at scene is used quite often to shock about the series. The scene of them were Marybeth and I'd fight since I saw what I saw and you jumped, you started and yeah, I remember now I wanted her to back me up.

Yeah, And it's such again, it's so amazing. First as just your like sort of your first episode. It wasn't like, oh, we'll just be crime together. It was it was very character driven. It was very much about the two of your relationship, and it was also allowing women to be mad at each other in a very real way, allowing women to be mad and angry and express that anger and then also find ground, like, you know, kind of rebuild the relationship within that show.

It doesn't seem like it should be groundbreaking, but I could not point you to another show of that time that truly did that. In comedies, there'd be a lot of you know, like Golden Girls had a lot of conflict and then resolution, but really rainiant, they did it. Yeah, But in terms of drama, didn't Barney ever talk to you about how Cagney sort of came to be born or in character? No, you can I challenge something. Oh well, you write a little bit in your book when you realized who he was.

But but tell the story. I don't know. We were in our boss's office with all the men, with all the mail, with cops also all our people in our precinct, and I can't remember what why we were in there. But mary Beth, I said, always button back world over season. It's always very proper.

And she's a lieutenant. If you don't know the dish seen rape and roylance. He was talking about Gone with the Wind, Yes, and I think you guys are working on a rape case or something in the right And he was saying, but in Gone with the Wind, you know he carries a rap We did raper he did rapers. But it was making me very sexy. You know.

Now wakes up the nextplaying with a smile at our face. Um. Anyway, Mary Beth Lacey's lieutenant. If you don't know the different rape romance, you'd better problem. She walks out, and that's Darry ended like very bad.

So as it's written, everything's quiet. Oh, as it's written, one of the guys probably is Becky. Then what is it with her time of the month or something? And I stopped the scene and the director says, what's wrong. I said, I need a line.

I need a line. Guys, I mean, he doesn't get to say that it's a partner, so we're never allowed to change the line. So they call Barney Rose and swank down. He said Barney always looked at his watch, always said, what seems to be the problem? Throws what seems to be the problem.

I said, I need a line. I need a line. Here is Becky just said about Mary Bets. What is it her time of the month or something? So I need to get a better line to get back at it.

He said, no, you getting a line at all. It's rough. Anybody said, you're cagning Kidney. He said, come over Jason's side. He said, this is a lesson for you, learning the character you are playing.

She tesn't kidder back to Feneer partner. She's one of the boys. She plays poker with him at night. She wants to be one of the boys, and she's gonna swallow it. She's gonna left them say that about her partner and not her room out.

And I remember I said, oh, I get it, she's a coups. Didn't she that's another word, pass it, she's a couz. Didn't she Andry smile out. At least I understood me said, she got it. That's who she is.

She loves her partner. She wants to be one of the boys because she wants to be lieutenant. Yeah, so she was worried to betray her own sex to stay in the poker game. I mean, I've kept my mouth. I kept my mouth shut in the eighties as a young person in the work environment.

Did you I don't know if I did. I'm sure I did. I didn't. I didn't have I wasn't part of I was very gratefully nassay. I was never part of the knee too.

I never had that problem. Now that men didn't find me track it or they didn't hit on me because I hadn't many Jan's right there in her office and I'd have told or they didn't have anything I needed. There was nothing they had I'm wanting, and I think they knew that. So I never had that unfortunate time in my career where I got hit on and my my career threatened. I didn't play right my book, perhaps I just wasn't very No.

No, I think you were being protected by money now yea and yeah, no one dare Yeah. In your book also you would, if I'm remembering correctly, you mentioned that when you were cast as Cagney, that you and Tyne spent some time together working on your dynamic between the two of you, working on you know, separate from from when you're on stage, working some things out that way. I just wondered if you might expand on that a little bit. We did the day before we read together with the with the cast, very very first time I had ever sept in to play this role. And there was a reach or in front of the cinematographer, in front of somebody key crew, in front of course all the cast and executives should ryan.

That means God, because this is the last ganits right. Tyne calls me up. She said, what do you say we read in the script alone together before they ever see us do it? Said great? Do you mind?

She said, Bella. So she comes out with a bottle of champagne again and we run together. It turned out five times we did it together. I'm so grateful to her person when you're the new person, neither hated your world bother anybody. So we went and we did set a cacheb we with all these people, you know, and we did it and Darney stood up and saved and ladies and gentlemen, that's how it's gone.

Nice. I actually cried because time came up with just the very the necessity of course I'm stealing it together and not arriving green. You know, she had the advantage of playing this character for quite a while, but she knew I had not Yeah and yeah, and what you might be referring to also, Sharon, is are working together every night shoot. We met in my trailer because I had the bar open. We met in my trainer and read the next days were oh oh over getting ChIL We thought each other's with them.

That's fantastic, and that pays off in the show. It's so there's there really is such a camaraderie that comes across in the show. It really does feel like you guys are working partners because you were, we were. And I will always say, certainly I have my own skill. I certainly I brought something into that character if they didn't have before.

But Time deity is the reason Time is such a generous actor, such a if they wanted to do you didn't care and she just punned, you know, and we will kind of phot together. Yeah, I can't imagine. Well, I think we are already planning to basically have you back on the show together because that's Michael's funny cards with her and a birthday p cre game last night. Oh your birthday, Happy birthday. No, I'm belay.

My birthday is the last day I made. But I'd like to play with my some friends and my stepdaughters in times always included So our game last night, Oh that's great. I lost? You lost, all right, and so did Time. Okay, okay, all right, so there you go.

See that's okay. I'm curious if Christine Cagney would have called herself a feminist in those very early days. I yes, I think she would, add, but I don't think she would have understood the real meaning of a feminist. I think she was a feminist for herself. She wasn't going to let anybody say because she's a girl, she can't add.

But was she a feminist to fight for other women. No, I think that Tonkag will fight for herself. I think she was it Lohard. I think she I till in the book a story and but I'm gonna tell it to you too that I went to Time right first of Bloban's character in Lane. Turtley was getting who she was, who I thought she was, and I said to Time, I have something answer him.

You're She said, well, may pure her and really said, we're always running indoors. Do you know with the guns drug? I said, can I run in before you? She said, you know why? I wanted to say no that this question, so of course I do, so I'm asking it, I said Time, I think Mary Bath has a lot of these.

She has a husband, she has children. This one doesn't give a shit about anybody. She wants to be the hot shot. That's who she is, and sometimes it's two a fault. And I don't think she's just cautious.

She wants to win and try and risken to me. And she said, I get it. If that's what you need, It said, end me every time. But most of the job our routine. She said, Okay, we'll guess who won all the end eastein.

Did you know that that show lives or dies on that relationship and that's why it lives so long and so long in our hearts. I you know, I have I'm not wearing today, but I have a Cagney and Lacy shirt because I like, I have shirts of all the shows. And I was in the grocery store the other day and wearing it, and three different people came up to me and they're just like, I love that show. Oh, Cagney and Lacy. It has so much resonance that show.

People do remember it. I want to take a break real quick. We'll come right back and well, we won't do all our questions because I'm not sure we'll be able to get through them all, but we'll You want to do it embarrass myself like Barney did do four hours, I mean more, Barney was very sweet, he was very are you kidding? He loves it. It was fascinating, It was fascinating and interesting and fun.

We'll come right back, Hello, welcome back. Carol King did the theme song for the Trials of Rosie O'Neill in, and then you had her on the show in the in a great episode. Soon episode. Her manager at the time did not want her to sing on TV. Um, so um, we got wonderful Kay Manchester Manche there you go, thank you, Okay, but I got to go the day that there was Carol King and Melissa Manchester together, wow, singing and she's singing the song.

Carol was watching or business her song and Melissa singing it beautifully and I'm just watching. And then they took a picture of the three us together, which was cool to me. Yes, Carol wrote the song Barney Approach. During asked her if she shouldn't break the main main theme to the Trials of Rosunio, and she said she'd love to, and then he asked her she'd sing it, and she told me that her management did not want her singing anything for a TV series. I think she felt very apologetic about it.

So we got Melissa Manchester. But on the show, Carol to a Barney that she's always wanted to act. So Carol did come and perform. It's a character on our show. And it was a reunion of everybody like was a college or high school, high school, high school, high school, right, and Carol was one of you know, our best piece, our bestest friends and telling arrives.

Also it was one of her high school alumni. Uh, and she's a Tony winner from Broadway and time it just won her Tony and Broadway. So she played her to the hilts and she's very diva in that very beatly exactly and makes everybody hate her. And um, but we have a wonderful scene together at the end where the characters settled in each other. But to sit there and sing with Karrol King while she's playing on the piano her song and she's singing it worse than you know, the graduates or singing it with her.

You know, sometimes she just take things for granted when you're happening. I know. It's a very key highlight in my life. It was a beautiful That episode was really great and it was a beautiful scene and um and I it took me forever to recognize Gretchen Corbett. I never hope Gretchen was a contract player with me.

Oh was she okay? All right? So I have questions. A lot of these questions are from my husband because he's a huge Rockford Files fan and thus a huge Gretchen corporate and he's a television writing producer and I literally took a picture of the reunion scene, uh and sent it to him and I said, okay, you have to pick up who all these people are and he he recognized everybody but Gretchen Corpett and I said corp He was like, I don't believe that track together. And she did like a recurring role on Rockford Yes, right, yes, yes, and you were on Rockford.

You did two episodes of Rockford Files. Yeah, and one was playing a stewardess that it was great. It was called the Fourth Man. I don't remember. And that was my first one where I think I was playing with stewarts and um, I'm excited about it because it was written by Janita Bartlet Nita, can you please tell us about Janita Bartlet is Now she moved to Carrrol she passed away and a number of years ago, but moved to Carmel I know that, and she retired there.

Yes, but she didn't she write with that was a wonderful writer. She wrote on the Rockford Files for many years. And she was a producer and writer on scarecromisis King, one of the other shows that we cover from the eighties. Stephen Cannell. Yes, not Seedian Can, Stephen Cannell, David Chase, Yes, Stephen Botsko, Stephen Cannell for all of the affects.

Stephen Candel used to call me his good luck charm. He put me in all his pilots. Oh, it's all part when I did a pilot for him where I was like one of the leads, um, and then he put me in that Bob Bob black Sheep gave me one scene in his pilot and it's sold. Not because of me, but he just thought, you're gonna be my good luxury momo. Was gonna put you do a little something in my pilots.

That was the Black Cheap Squadron. Yes, you really know your stuff. Oh. He grew up on television, a lot of TV. Yeah, I remember that act.

I don't remember his name, but he used to do Robert used to do that battery commercial commercials. Shoulder yeah. Yeah, oh, all those guys, but they were all round. We needed bartlets. Yeah, we were all a universal Steve even Um.

Stephen Botchko eventually left Universal Um and went on to you know greatness. But Steve and Candle we sort of knew each other socially. We were both born in la He was a native Angelina, just like I was from Pasadena and I was from Hancock Park. And he died Rachel Young. Yeah.

Anyway, his daughter makes television. I believe she's a director, some kind of television creator, right, yeah, right, I believe I worked with her. I think Barney hired her. Maybe it wasn't Barney, maybe it was unlike it was one of my other series after that, and she came and directed us. Oh that's great.

Yeah, I do love it does feel like you guys are always inviting the family back. I believe Meg Foster does a guest on Trials of Rosie O'Neill had her often played my opposing a journey because he felt so badly at the networks ready forcing him to do that. Um, and he always loved her, you know. So, Yeah, she came and did some wonderful turns for us on The Trust Roads and New Okay. I have a couple of questions, just like about the opening sequence for Cagney and Lacy, in particular the shot walking down the street sidewalk in New York of the and two together.

That's so sort of iconic from the for the show and Jess meant, and so you guys went to New York to shoot that right. Once a year we would go to New York to shoot exteriors and they were just cut into episodes. I mean we shoot them speaking, you know, doing dialogue, and I said, wait a minute, what happened before this scene? Because you know, an actor needs and to see an event, so you know why you're grossing the street. So the writers would give us our scenes and then tell us just what happened just before that scene.

So we and we used to love going there. We always they're in I think August hot, so hot. We wore the it like hot, you know, cool, cool clothes. We're walking down the street. Well then you come to later on in the year and you do that scene that preceding it, and you have to get back in those clothes.

We've been eating the craft surface all in year. We couldn't get back into the clothes. We had established every year we had this bottom so fun start putting us eating the heat of August, and year they put us in coats and half stop person duplicate that scene or walking you know, we could take off that. We could have bigger clothes. That's so funny.

Do you remember we're doing that walking down that that shot that's clearly a long lens. You're walking with real people. I assume, yes, I did something was not in the script. We were not I was told to do, but it just seeing great. We did many walking down the streets.

I decided what carried me. Likes clothes, so even they were kind of managed clothes, but she liked to style, you know, and so I say, I'm going to look and see it was in the window. So I just stopped in time whenever where'd she go? And without her air planning this and she goes goes back and gass me, pulls me by the arm, and then staining it is one of the parts of the main title. That's great.

I know exactly what your shot you're talking about. That's so great. And then I, of course have a question about the flasher. What was I saying, Yes, I don't know. What I'd like is really just get some a lip reader, I'm serious, and figure out what you were because you don't remember what you were involved saying, because I've never been able to answer the question.

But the added jew that can tell was really, um, they're what we're hoping to do with that sort of That was my intention, and I knew we weren't Mike, so it didn't matter, right. But what I mean again, that opening sequence very very lovely, and that flasher shot in particular has stayed with me from childhood because because of your look, right, because of your look, thank you, we oh my goodness, thank you, And thinking about it, it's actually a little surprising that CBS let you put that, let them put that in, because it seems a little for lack of better work riskue for a network television show to put that kind of shot in. But good kudos to them. They were they were a little bit more lean with us.

At one read through, Marty Cope had her can I see anything or or yeah they didn't cut it out it yeah. So when read through and this is in the script, Martin Cope has a lot like I'm saying that she's and I raised my hand as it. Excuse me, I mean, you know, excuse you can bard can we see on television? He said, no, But I'm traded in for another word I do want to use. That's why you put it in the scrip seems booksheet another again, I mean, just a classic producer move right, like I'm going to push it too far and then I'll give you some ground.

Yeah, yeah, all right, I will see it then, yes, um, I'm so. I do also want to I have questions about Queer as Folk and how you got involved at that and again it feels like a show that may have brought you to another level of awareness and activism according to your book. Yeah next, so Queer as Folk. I was in Chicago doing a play and my television career was slow was slowing down. I'd gotten very, very very heavy.

I'd hit like two hundred pounds, and my marriage was falling apart because of that is everything was falling apart anyway. So I was doing display that had been written for me, so I thought, one, not so busy, I'll go and do a display. Well, while I was there, I got an offer to do Lyon in winter back Easton summer for summer Playhouse League. So I hired the top drama coach in Chicago to train me. And the man who was my trainer was also an agent.

And he called me one day and he said, do you know about careers Folle And I said no. He said, well, it's a British series and it's not been shown here, and there's a black market copy. Show tell me, said, has about the rights to the American version, and there's a black market copy going around reading he said, be out and there's a part of that's perfect for you. Let me have a car. Said you're stay right where you are and said, okay, sorry, stayed in my goal apartment and m the driver comes kitchen in ship.

So I'm about so busy. I sit down and I read it. Well. I read that role of Debbie Nevatney, and right I knew. I knew this was my next show if they take me.

I knew I was perfect for her. And I'd never been aggressive on around behalf ever. So I pick up the phone and right the call Showtime the network because Barney's ex assistant is now the assistant to the president of Showton. So I say, Carol, Sharon, I just read Queer as soap. When you guys are making I said, I walked me part of the mother.

You know what the part of the mother. There's another mother that is very young, and I said, I do away just figured out that I was talking about Debbie Bobby. I said, I do what the reend? She showed you want to be in the show. It's in Canada.

I said, it perfect because Barney and I were going through the divorce, you know um and and she's there's no money. I said, I don't care. I wanted out, went out of the country. I wanted my own series again. I just wanted the things I loved, you know.

So she said, well, let me run it by Jerry. They're doing casting today, the casting meetings. Talk to me about Henry Jerry Off Say gets on the phone. He said, Sharon, Jerry Offs. I liked the idea.

I said, Oh, Jerry, I'm so glad. He said, yeah, I said the beak. You'll bring a little class to the project, I said, Jerry, class is not what I had. And I don't know if you know the role of Demise, she was not a classy woman. And so anyway, he flew me out to meet the two producers.

He said, sorry, as far as i'm consuming, you have the job, but I don't want the one rough shot of my producers. Would you mind meeting them? Will pay to fly you out uson? Not at all? So I flew out and I met them and it was the most fun, meaning we lacked the whole time, and they gave me the role in the room and re short.

I mean, I'm so happy because I knew, I knew I could bring something to it, and I knew I was right for her. I might Debbi Nevadans kind of crude and crude looking with the red hair and the thing and the thing in the red wig. I mean it was ally and that their ear rings, and and I plead her with my mother's heart, and mother is the most was the most refined woman. Absolutely did you everything, even the word lady, my mother's My mother had never raised your books, never said a swear word. Once she said d A m it.

She spelled a swear word. And I said, I know my mother's hard, and I totally words her. I allowed myself. I made up that look because I didn't want to beat the blood, you know, the two hundred pound blood when Cagney and Lacy gone, I mean Christine January gone bad. So that allows to my chance to be somebody else and look different and act different.

And so that's a long answer to tell us about where's up. It's a great answer. But I also learned so much, and I one of these people who are like, my mess friends are gay, but I into a queer stolk. I didn't know the real struggles, the hard ship, the heartache, all the stuff that you didn't hear about until that show. And I learned.

I learned, And then boys would walk down the street and come over and see me I have a good mate, start crying. It just was wonderful. I was able to have impact. Again, you know, they were kind of impact, but I was able to have impact on some people. You truly did.

Our marketing person who's not here today is Sullivan and he is a young game black man who watched your show. And I watched that show and was like, she was the mom that we all wanted. Yeah, it was a mom we didn't he in such a mouth ver and she slap her sun across up basin, but she loved and accepted him and everybody around him and Georgian, oh yeah, anyone was good, hurt and she was there. Yeah. I love the show too.

I mean this, this straight black woman absolutely love with this show. Um loved Debbie, loved how loving she was not just to her son, but all of his friends and the whole community. And you were so wonderful and it was. It was really great. Loved it.

I lecked out. I just lecked out, thank you so much because it was. And sometimes it pays to raise your hand and say I want I'd like that hard. Yeah, I know you never done that in my life. And there it was, and it was changed my life, brought me back.

I mean, what a great yeah you've made. This is the third time Sharon Gless made me cry three times. Sorry, but for all the best reasons. Exactly, Thank you so much. It was I've stayed closest to that cast then even Cadney and Lacy Tiny and I are inseparable.

But the rest the cast, we worked so many hours. We didn't get a chance to know them or play with them. Here we didn't. We couldn't get a chance to hang out and then Burnoutice you'd play it completely different and yet adoring mom again, b and you know I want to chaying. I never wanted to play the mother in the muckerat Snore, but these two particular mothers were fun.

I refer to the mother and burn Nervous as the mother from Hell. Not. He and Jeffrey Dodv and I got along so well, and it was just an end worked out and when we finally stopped the divorced seedings part either way after so um and then this said Burners was in my Enemi, which is where I lived, and I didn't tell them I lived there because I have a home in la because I during the pie that I'm wanted to hang out with the cast in the hotel. You know, wh I'm going to get pret dum. It's sold.

Like months later, my manager called me. He said burnout A sold said was Burnouts. It was a very odd title, you know. So I didn't it just didn't. I didn't remember it.

I did one day's work, two day's work. That was it. And then I went home. And then he caused me, must later burnout was sold. Whoo?

I have to tell him I did in Miami because they don't want to deliver the scripts and stuff too. So I confess. You confessed and you didn't get off. I said it fair. You didn't get per diem for the entire series before and we wished to the pilot.

You know, I just wanted to hang out with the actors in the hotel. None of us stead. I was, Oh I do um anyway, it was It's been the one and I've stayed trenched with base actors, and so I'm i'd like, so you and Barney were at the brink of divorce for a while yea, very serious yeah, and then we just lived long enough to say, oh well no, it was very very worth times. What is it to Jennie Rosslynnis said we had her own for scarecrom as a King and and she said, oh my, she's been had a writing partner her entire career, Brad Buckner. And She's like, oh that that that's my best relationship.

My marriage is hard, Oh it is? Oh yeah, hardest. Hardest is well obviously too. It's much easier for me to play it at the character than play myself. So yea, when he would up playing in a series, great, they can't hurt me.

He could end in and I'm sure I did. I share. So now we've been married thirty one years. Who think never could? And you didn't think you'd ever be married never?

I never wanted to be married never ever. Um, I'd never seen any good marriage, still very few. I don't know if it's a net, if it's a natural state, but I'm single for so many years, didn't get married charms just about to turn fifty, and I liked me you, I got him on fine with me, but I got married on was fifty and then the wren't a minute pause. Well, poor thing, poor Barney didn't know it did not none of us do. Really.

You lay a lot of stuff bare in here in book. I see you who I too. But I couldn't do it any other way, you know? Or was it ever tried to go for sensationalism. I just told the truth.

Yeah, I keep up with the title before I ever better word on the page. Apparently the ways why is it titled that? Well, I came up with that expression. I was in Hazelton, and it's a lot of the books about my alcohol and drug abuse, I know get in line. But it was the eighties.

It's recently been written. But I do write. I write about all the complaints about my life that when I was in Hazelton, it was a lot of scandalum and Barnie and I Barnie was going to a divorce. Um. The press was terrible to us because we were very hot at that time and this was our secret and we had fallen in love with each other.

I mean, it was wrong and couldn't help it and kept it a secret from time per year, which is inexcusable because Tyne and Barney and her triangle, nobody could, you know, break us up, And this was something she didn't know about. Eventually contold her, but it was just a horrible, horrible to her. Anyway, I ended up in Hazleton, which is the harbor of the media apps, and it was all over the press. It was awful. And Cagney certainly was the first alcoholic in a series on television, and it turns out so Sharon.

So it was a lot of his life imitating art. Was she a larned when she did those amazing scenes? And I was not, by the way, I cannot drink and and form. I'm not that good Timing is everything for me. So somebody approached me when I got out of it.

It's a four week program. It was there seven weeks, hi seven. They just couldn't Yeah, you're going back to one, back to one, honestly about and I was very well known in those days, so they used to hide me. They'd hide me like every Sunday was parents' day to come and see whoever they loved. It was in hazel they hide me in the infirmary because we were saying sharing Weston is not lived here.

They're returning to protect me. So this girl says, you were in haslet. I said, yeah, you see, we are doing it. Ay something I say. Apparently they were complaints.

You know, I always try to make light of any tragedy and Barney having me standing next weren't married, but he burst out laughing, and if he burst out of yea, I know I did something for me. Yeah, and it's just always in my expirasion no matter what terrible thing happens. Apparently there were complaints. It's such a great line if it really Yeah, yeah, it was painful. It's like this is what we used to you know when I was a kid and we watched Mash.

We're like, oh, it's like Mash. You laugh in order not to cry. Yeah, that's right. I love that. I loved that.

That was a good show. That's a great show. Also a bit you included me in this trilogy which everything's about to be quartet if you get Karin in right, Yes, yes, we all right. So we are now down to three questions. What's the eighties ladies driven television show that resonated with you at the time or afterwards.

We usually ask us not to name their own show. But you know, a lot of people we're busy in the eighties working on their show. So is there an eighties Ladies TV show other than Cagney and Lacy that resonated with you? No? Okay, No, was there another their Eighties Ladies Dolder and show.

No that's not like I'm not I'm not KOs. I'm just it was there, um there. Well, we're doing a whole podcast about them. So so when you're shooting your own show, you don't get a chance to watch other peoples were I'll tell you my favorite Ladies teen shows. Yeah, please Hacks.

Oh, we love Hacks, and we love Jean Smart because she was a famous Ladies of the eighties and designing. But I never go back to see I became friends with um oh god, the two the two Brunettes, um b yeah, Dixie Carter, Dixie Carter. I only knew Dixie and Delta taking CoFe coach, but I never got to know the other two women on the show. But so Hacks with Jane Smart is a piece of genius and she plays a woman of her age. So it's like being in the eighties.

I mean, to me, she's just a absolutely brilliant, down to earth broad and the writers that show are brilliant, and it's about a woman who is fading and doesn't want to. And if I think this, everything I'm learning about this show is true, she's not about to fade. She's absolutely my idol. Again, I don't watch a lot of TV, but then I got to be introduced to Jane's barr in this part phenomenal style and substance. And that's actually the second question, what you know female driven show of today would be your current favorite?

So hacks hacks, okay, And I think you already answered this question, which is what's like the most television or scripted moment that you've had in real life. There was a moment in my life that I would have believed if I'd seen it in a movie, and it's in my book. It's just about my flying from Phoenix to Los Angeles. I had finally admitted for the first time around life, at age twenty six, that I wanted to be an actress. I never told anybody, and I'd wandered it all my life.

I worked behind the camera all my life. I was a production assistant, production secretary. I was challenged, share, what do you want to do with your life? You have nothing to show for? And I said the words out loud.

My step Graham I was saying, just say it. It doesn't matter if you can have it, just say it. There must be something you want. I said, I wanted to be an actress. She said so, I said, well, Mary twenty six years old, a little old starting And she said, when I was your age, I was in the contract to MGM said you were, She said I was.

I wasn't very good, so when he lasted a year. But anyway, the evening goes on, and she said she would not tell my grandfather because my grandfather disapproved. My grandfather was a very big showbiz lawyer. She promised you wouldn't tell him. Next morning, your grandfather would like to see you.

He said, that's ridiculous. I earned something to his background. That's ridiculous. I said, well, I knew you'd say that, Grandpa. That's why I asked Mary not to tell you.

He said, I mean, it's ridiculous. You think i'd stand in your way? I said, oh, he said, you wanted me an actress, I said, scrapper. He said, what are you gonna do about it? Well, chap lessons?

He said, great. How much of the lessons he knew? I didn't never Penny, I said they were. I can't remember what they were. Exam I boat, I'd say it was five hundred better, wasn't I think it's like fifty dollars for three months?

He said, you got fifty dollars in that way, said grandpa. There was so much money, and guys, you have no idea. I had nothing, nothing, And he said, so you want to go home him? I said, no, grip. I came to visiting for two weeks.

You invited me, He said, I know. I didn't want to go home. Now, my grandfather was a thoroughbred racer. He trained thoroughbreds, he bred them, and he raced them. And that day he saw a Philly who was ready to rock.

Now you have this money, you take this class, or what are you going to do? What do you do while you're waiting to be an actress? I said, I'll get a job. I'm a secretary, she thought, and Mary gets your ticket go home tonight. I'd just gotten there the depth before this moment I want to tell you about I'm flying for Arizona into Los Angeles, my home, and I'm looking out the window and I knew, not for you.

I knew I wasn't a looker. I knew I wasn't young. And I looked out over Los Angeles as I was landing, and I said, this is where it happens. Not And I knew I wouldn't. Any year later, I was under contract to the biggest television studio in the world, and I'd never acted in my life.

And you lasted more than a year. Yeah, that's awesome. That is a beautiful story. Yeah, awesome, beautiful moment. We just can't thank you enough for agreeing to do this and being a guest in our podcast.

It's it's amazing. It's amazing. Been an amazing conversation, and thank you ladies. This was an honor. This is me being sincere.

Uh, this is it was honored to be on your show. Thank you very much. All right, bye bye. Our audiography for today is two websites and a book. The Sharon Glass official website is at Sharon Glass dot com and the Facebook page is Facebook dot com slash official Sharon Glass.

The Book of course is Apparently there were complaints by Sharon Glass. You can find these links on our own website, Eighties tv Ladies dot com, as well as where to go watch the shows that Sharon was in. Season two is right around the microphone. Hell us, what nineteen eighties email driven television shows you think we should be talking about for our next season and be sure to join in. For our next episode, we will be interviewing the first woman to win an Emmy for directing, Miss Karen Arthur.

She won in nineteen eighty five for You Guessed It, Cagney and Lacy. As always, we hope Eighties TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch, all of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the twenty first century. So bretty