REWIND: A Different World | Looking Back at the 80s Hit with Writer Niceole Levy

Weirdy wed. Hello Eighties TV Ladies listeners. Hope you are having happy times. Indeed, Susan and I are both settling into our new places, me and Indiana and Susan in Now, where did you move to? Uh?

It wasn't across the country, so it doesn't really count, Sharon, but just three miles from where we were in Pasadena. We're now in ben Burry Oaks or a royal terrace, I'm not quite sure, but we're just east and above the Rose Bowl and Brookside golf Course. The neighborhood doesn't have a name because it's literally like two blocks in between Banbury Oaks and a royal Terrace. But anyway, it's so cute and adorable and we love our new plays. But it's filled with boxes.

So, dear listeners, while we try to unpack and not lose our minds, we want to share some of our favorite episodes of eighties TV Ladies. Please enjoy this rerun with writer Nicole Levy talking about a different world and so pretty. Into the city. World. Welcome to Eighties TV Ladies with your fabulous hosts Sharon Johnson and Susan Lambert Adam.

Hello, I'm Susan and I'm Sharon. We are kicking off a new series of episodes looking at a new old show today. This show has been on our list since the beginning of the podcast. The sitcom A Different World broke round and changed lives, created and celebrated stars. Just this month, many of the cast members have been touring the country, visiting HBCUs, having cast reunions across television shows like The View and Dancing at the White House with Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre and Vice President Kamala Harris.

It's a different world, indeed, that's right. The Different World was a spinoff of the hit sitcom The Cosby Show. It premiered on September twenty fourth, nineteen eighty seven, and ran for six seasons until nineteen ninety three. The show looked at the lives of the students of Hillman College, a fictional, historically black college. Season one centered on doctor Cliff Huxtable's teen daughter Denise Huxtable played by Lisa Bonett, and her roommates Julisa and Maggie played by Don Lewis and Marissa Tomy.

Bonnett and Tomay left the show at the end of season one. The incomparable director, producer, actress, choreographer. Amazing woman Debbie Allen, a graduate herself of HBCU Howard University, was brought on to reimagine the show with a mix of old and newcast. Really creating a new focus for the remaining seasons of the Black College Experience, staying funny while the dressings sensitive topics like race, sexual assault, equal rights, HIV and AIDS. We can't wait to dive into this show and I'm really excited to kick off this series with today's guest.

Our very special guest is an amazing twenty twenties TV lady. A television writer, producer, and book writer. She has written for over nine TV shows, including Cloak and Dagger and Shades of Blue. Nicole served as supervising producer for swat Co, executive producer for The Recruit, and is currently working on the NBC drama Found. She is also the co writer with George Mulfei of the twenty eighteen movie The Banker, starring Samuel L.

Jackson, Nia Long and Anthony Mackie. She has written an amazing book for aspiring TV writers called The Writer's Rooms Survival Guide. Welcome to eighties TV ladies. Nicole Levy, Hi, thank you all so much for having me. I am so excited to do this.

I am so happy to have you on today. Here's the funny thing. I can't remember, other than Twitter, how we know each other. But I feel like I know you or I met you. Well.

I am not sure because I feel the same way, and I know that I think we have mutuals in common. But it's it's so funny because I was like, I just knew the show happened, and I was like, oh, that's so cool. And I feel like I can't remember where. I feel like it might have been at a party somewhere that. We might have been.

Yeah, do you know what? I think? We intersected? A Kayla Cooper. A Kayla Cooper.

That's it. That's it, that's it. Okay, there you go, mystery. She is killing it. She is.

So excited for her. I'm so excited for her. And so deserved, like she's been, you know, like you working it really hard. So yes, congrats to you. Thank you very much.

All Right, So you're in Atlanta now. I am in Atlanta right now. I'm shooting an episode of Found season two, which I am very excited and happy to be a part of Yeah. I haven't been on set since twenty twenty one when I was shooting SWAT, because I had been doing shows that shot remotely and or in development since then. Where are you originally from?

I'm originally from a little town called Roachecrest, California. It is between Lancaster and Bakersfield. And I ended up in the middle of nowhere because my father was a career Navy man and there is China Lake Naval Weapon Center or whatever variation of that name it is right now. It's changed a few times, and that was his final posting, and he and my mom were like, well, we can raise this tune in one place because I'm a baby by a mile in my family. And I spent the next fifteen years being like, why didn't you stay here?

Why did you stay this part? And it wasn't I actually know someone who listened Ridge Crest. I am an Air Force brat and Bonnie's sister, Donna and I are have been friends since we were eleven. Our parents were stationed in Japan, and then Bonnie got married and somehow ended up in rich Crest and she and her husband and her son have been living there ever since, and I think Donna's other sister, Judy now lives there as well. Wow.

And it really was actually a lovely place to be a little kid because we would go out in the desert and play make the leave all day, and like we used to literally make houses like outlined on the dot with rocks and then like it would be our fancy like hard to heart house, so like whatever, you know, but it was rocks on the ground. So it's a lovely place to be a small child because we had a lot of freedom, a lot of riding the bugs to each other's house, that kind of thing. It was a terrible place to be a teenager. How big a town was it. I mean we had a couple of hundred graduating seniors and it wasn't tiny.

Tiny was a decent science smile town. But like there was one movie theater. If you didn't want to see those four or five movies, too bad for you. So like we were the essential Blockbuster kids, right, like go to Blockbuster Friday night, spend two hours picking out movies. Like that was our jam.

That was so fun. Perusing the shelves, Yeah, like. Making fun room and be like write this movie. But yes, the answer everyone was my brother, and he means that you were like, who would ever rent this? My brother rented it.

The legend is that they were having a rough time and my mom was actually packing to leave him when she found out she was pregnant with me, and so they stayed married for another twenty eight years until my father passed. So I held going together. There save the marriage. I did. I did, and there were times where I was like, was that the best choice?

But they made it, they made they made it good, go open after a while. People are funny. I mean, look, I think all the time my marriage is hard. There's a reason I haven't done it. It looks like hard work.

And I am a person who's like like IM kind of just like all my stuff where it is like I'm right there with you. I'm right there with you. I'm like if someone went in and like rearranged my kitchen, I would file for divorce that day. Right, it's hard. It looks hard, like it's a lot to keep a relationship that healthy.

I mean the friendships are hard enough. Yeah, And I will say I feel like that's one of the things some oil the eighties television kind of service, the Bill of Goods. Because marriage looked pretty easy. Yeah, I did, you couldn't you can television hard to heart. You could be married millionaires and have a detective agency and hard.

Times make it to dinner parents, you know, was a good. Well even before it eas television. I think if you look at family television, they made it look really easy, really easy. So I don't think television did a lot of us any favors in that regard, but very true. So I'm going to guess you watched a lot of television growing up.

So much television so much so the joke in our house was always like because I watched soaps, I watched finme time like I was in deep and so I'd always be like, okay, but Mom like came not picking it up until three and Kenny being home by seven forty five and like never and she gets she'd be like, are you going to schedule your entire life around the TV show? And so when I got my first job on Ironside, I called her to tell her I had finally gotten a job, and I said to her, so, guess what, Mom, I Am going to schedule my entire life around a TV show and she fell out laughing. I love that. And your first show was Ironside. Yeah, the reboot.

Very good with Leia Andrewood, who is just a delight and absolute delight. I had been like wishing I could work with him again ever since, So I'm going to find a way to make that happen. But I love that for our show that your first show was working on a reboot of a sixty seventy show, which. I had seen every episode of, by the way, because my parents were huge Raymond Bond fans, and so on the weekend because we got LATV in Ridge Press, so I'm one of those syndicated thirteen nine eleven, one of those channels. There was a block of Perry Mason and Ironside and I remember being at very young being so confused because Perry Mason would be on first and then Ironside would be on, and I was like, why are they?

Oh my god, I love that. So yes, I had seen every episode of the og iron Side by the time I did the reboot, all. Right, And when you were brought in to try to get that job, did you start with that? Did you go By the way, I've seen every episode of the Ironside I did. I did, and ten sand A Deliverer was our showrunner was like and said, I was like, no, really, my parents love this show.

I have seen all of it. I'm so excited that it. You know, the television watching gets you a job in television sometimes. As it should be. I'm sure it did not hurt.

I'm sure it didn't hurt. Yeah, my parents were big love television. So I watched like every rearun of Marcus Welby, every Harry Mason Ironside, and I love Lucy, like Dick van Dyke, all the classic great things, because he just always had the TV on and they'd like to have me come in and watch with them. So what was your path in getting to that first job in television? So a lot of that TV watching just in the curve of that.

People wrote it like, I was so far removed from how the business work, so I thought I was going to be an actress, and I wrote things, but I wrote things just to give myself something to play around acting, right, And in my senior year of high school, I took ap English and shout out to Mike Phillips if he ever were to hear this. It was my ap English teacher, and he you know, like when you do EP assignments, they put like a number at the top and it's like one through four and four is the best, right, And I kept getting twos and ones, and I was pissed cause I'm very competitive about my grades, and it's like and finally he was like, you're writing stuff you think I want you to write, Like, just write something from your heart.

And so the next assignment was to write about a place that scared us, and I wrote about my mother's family. It's from New Orleans and my great grandmother, who was the responsible for the style of my name, lived in this earl little house that had been a brothel before she bought it, and someone had been murdered in the attic, and so it had all this legend attached to it. But I always felt perfectly safe there because my great grandma was such about it. So I was like, no, theyn't mess with my great grandma. I'm out on goes because she'll take you out right.

And then she passed away, and the first time we went back after she died, the house terrified me. It was like I saw shadows around every corner and whatever so I wrote about that feeling and he handed back my paper with a four on the top of it, and it was like, do that. And I was like so excited that, like I had done the thing he wanted. And so I started writing more. But I still didn't know that the path was going to change.

And it was when I went to acting school. I went to the American Academy and Dramatic Arts and we had to read at these plays. I'm sure I'm exaggerating this now. In my mind it was one hundred. It probably wasn't that many, but it felt like we had to wade a hundred and in the reading of the place, I was realizing that, like I loved the storytelling part more than the performing part.

And so by the end of the year, I was pretty clear on the fact that like that was the path I should follow. And so then my parents were awaited because they were like, thank God, she's going to go to a real college and study a real thing. And I had to work my way through school because you know, my parents were very sort of average middle class in USC Tuition was like a oh what. And so I started out in junior college at Pasadena City College, and I got a job as a police dispatcher in San Marino, which is right by Pasadena, and worked my way through school and that was kind of how I got into the actual study of writing and did all that PS for anybody out there did not go to film school, you can have a pif a great career and never go to film school.

I was a English major at USC. So you were an English major. Yeah? Was this for a bachelor's master? So if were bachelors in the English major, they had a creative writing track?

Oh good, So that was my bachelor's and then they used to have they no longer have it. At USC a master's called the Master of Professional Writing. And what was great about it was you had to do everything. And so I left that program and got a job in publishing immediately, in magazine publishing. And so what I feel lucky about is that my degrees actually helped me keep a roof over my head for the many, many years it took for me to break into television.

So I tried out to be really helpful but very expensive. If I finally told my student runs off a couple of years ago, and it was the happiest day of my gratulations. Congratulations, that's huge. I paid mine off and it took a long time. Yeah, but I am very concerned about the people that have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt from school.

I literally I could not borrow enough money to go to USC now, Like my terrible student loan debt for five years between underground and grad school is probably two actual years at USC now. Yep, I don't know. I couldn't do it now, but I'm real glad I did it when I was like too excited to go to the USC to realize the financial burden. Not, well, you were smart to go to Pasadena first, so you've got a couple of years a reasonable price. Yes, yeah, that didn't occur to me.

I got out to USC, and then I was like, why am I I came to go to film school? Why am I taking English? One? Oh? One?

Like I could have stayed in Georgia for that. Yeah. I have some friends who two of their three kids are doctors, so you can only imagine the size of their student loan debt. But you've paid off yours. Yes, yes, woo, that really is amazing.

I want to get to a different world. Did you watch the show in the eighties. I did. I did, and what was fascinating, Like I hadn't thought about it in so long, but I was talking with another friend about the fact that I was going to do this, and I was rewatching the show, and what I remembered so clearly, even from the first episode, is it was the first time that the idea of an HBCU was even a fought to me of a thing I could do, because neither of my parents had done that, and it sort of wasn't like a thing that we talked about in our house. And again, my parents are both grown up in the South, but now we were all the way out in California, so they were definitely not suggesting anything that meant I was moving back to class to get trick and they were very like, oh, stay complia steak clothes to us, or we can keep an eye on you.

And I had seen like the contrast because of school days, which made going to an seemed like a terrible idea for me, because the way did the light Skan girls get treated in that it is not great, and so I was like, oh, like that might not be a thing. And then when I saw Killman in a different world, I was like, what we Spain? And it was so fascinating because my parents were They were like, sweetheart, we just don't know, Like, if you want to look into that, you should, but like you've never spent time in a predominantly black environment, Like I don't know if that's a right choice for you. But that's not a conversation we ever would have had if I hadn't seen the show and come rending it in and be.

Like, but he no, Loo's fat. What if I had to go to school like Killman And they were like, well, I guess we're having this conversation now. I didn't even know HBCUs existed when I was growing up, maybe partially because you know, being a military brat, we lived different places. I mean I was in Japan for junior high and first two years of high school, and at that point it was like I didn't know what the heck I was doing. In terms of trying to pick a college.

I had no clue. I think, like you, and I'm several years older than you. That Hillman was really kind of my first exposure to HBCUs. As sad as that may seem. Yeah, like I knew Howard existed.

Like I knew of Howard, I knew what it was. Another family friend had a son who had gone there or was going there, but like it still just didn't. It never was like a, oh, that's the thing I should consider until I saw the show, and it was like so eye opening to me that like there was this current other part of life in like black culture that I just didn't know anything about, in large part because I had grown up in such a different space. So it was really fascinating to like watch that and sort of see right for a bunch of different kinds of people at the school, and it didn't have that connotation of any one sort of person was wrong. It was sort of like, no, like we're sending the message that like all of our blackness is good, which I'm so.

Appreciated, not to mention the differences in the socioeconomic backgrounds follow them as well. Yes, and the ages. Yes. Like I remember, I had not definitely had not seen the first season in a really long time, and so I rewatched it, and like I forgot how big a reaction everybody had to Jalisa being older and divorced. It was such a big deal, and I'm so used to being older than most of the people in my spaces in Hollywood.

So it's like, y'all, I calmed down twenty four. It was. It was very, very huge, you know reaction in that it's the first episode that they're just yeah, kind of can't stop talking about it, and they're gossiping about her. Yeah, And I just I found that so fascinating. But I mean at the time, like I probably would have had the same reaction, like having now lived and been, you know, the person who's started by career later.

So I'm older than most of the writers in my rooms. It's always a little interesting. But I have forgotten, by the way, that there was also ever another version of the theme song normally read the Franklin. Version, and there's a different one first season six. It's the boys to Men version, yes, which is also it's good and like as soon as I parted it, I remembered like loving it, but I completely forgot the season one version.

Comsletely forgot it. Yeah, read the showte up and out the window away. Well, it's hard to beat through the Franklin it is it is. I do love that that theme song was co written by Don Lewis. I know, I know that's so creal, right, and the fact that like they didn't know like that she had been cast and then had also gotten hired to co write the song.

It's hilarious. I didn't know that either. I didn't know that pardon either. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, you know, she's separate arms completely and so I was reading a thing where she talked about like and then we're like, oh wait, what, Like she's in the show.

I love that it's having a renaissance right now because of the tour to raise awareness and money for the historically black colleges. A different world is a is you know, dancing at the White House. She knows you do and you know with our vice president Kamala Harrison. Yeah, the Road Trip Reunion specials. Did you guys see that?

It aired right after Sindbad had his stroke, but they did, like on e it was like a road triunion and I think they talked about it there and it was so funny because that when Jasmine Guy increased summer stand up to do the step routine and like they still remember it. I was like, oh my god, because that's one of my favorite episodes and they were talking about it in the special right, is like the Jasmine who had this thorough dance background to have to sort of comment dance from this very step up whitty place as opposed to the freedom of movement that she has. And then Chris Summer, who is very coordinated and very graceful, to have to constantly play these pratfalls and so the dance point of that, and they were saying like at a certain point, Debbie walked in and was like, can the child just run on the dance by the end, But it was hilarious because they were like I think I still remember, and they get up on the stage and start doing it, and then they cut to the clip and you're like, oh my god, like I remember watching this for the first time.

What I love about the show is they're just musical numbers and musical stars walking in and as a person that loves musicals and loves theater, loves theater people, I'm. Like, yes, yeah. It was so like, you know, the parade of people, like the Gladys Knight thing were like Whitley and Deuli. The team up was so great. And then the Heavy d episode where with like Snap talking hip hop to heavy and he's just like, oh, really, and there's people that I had just forgotten ever were on the show when you're rewatching episodes.

Forgot. Blara Nderwood was on it, forgot you know, Hollie Berry was over on it. The parade of people who went. Through it, Yeah, that's been an ongoing theme and the shows that we've watched and during this podcast and seeing so many people that we know so well now at the very beginnings of their careers. It's so much fun.

And you're right, it just has just a murder's row of people who went through that show. Yeah, just great. So I was thinking, because I watched for Down or what is the technical finale? Right the Whitley and Duane leave finale yesterday, and it appeared to me we're in the eighties. Diane Carroll had right between Dynasty and that like good I am.

I'm like she came back with I am and I have earned on the adulation under. Yes, I kind of love that. I definitely feel like that has to be the Debbie Allen of it, all of like, come in, be a diva, let's go. And you know, there was so much room for women to come in and be superstars in this show, both literally you know, because they were in the episode that I think the one you were talking about is season two, episode five, three Girls three, where they're competing to be the backup singer and then they get the dream sequence where they sing with Gladys Knight. It's it's great, it's amazing, and you're like, okay, it was really a lot of just beautiful moments.

I remember season one more than the rest of it because I think I was then. I just didn't catch it that often, you know, and of course I watched the spin off of The Cosby Show, but then when I did catch it, it did always feel like, well, there's a huge star, and it must have been why I watched it, Like I must have read the TV guide and went, oh, well, I'm going to tune in for that, you know with a TV guy. Yeah. So it's been a gift as I'm rewatching it to be like these young, amazing talented people that are just sort of starting and then these incredibly talented women that are coming in and basically kind of getting their flowers a little bit and being able to kind of do a really great episode where they're performing or they're you know, being the diva.

You know, it's great. Yeah, that's what I'm really appreciating on this rewatch is the cast. Yeah, it's just there's so much joy to like all the episodes, even when they do hard things, like the way that they still find the joy and friendship and the way that people show up for each other and those kind of things, which I think is part of what I loved about it. And like, I like a lot of things in the first season, but I think there was just that energy level went up so much when Debbie came. Yeah, that it just it grabbed you the second that it started, Like there was just like and you're sitting down and you're going to watch like every episode and I'm not.

It's just however she made that happen. It was magic, and it just the college feels like more people are there. I mean, every frame is filled. It's really interesting, particularly that second season, because it's so you know, it's so different look wise from the first season, even though the sets are all the same, like you know for the most part, and yet it really does have an energy of excitement and an energy of camaraderie and it's just filled with people like all the time, which is really neat. Yeah, like I wanted to go to the pits so bad.

Yeah, it just seemed like the most fun place on earth, Like everyone was always there and everything was everything always happening there anyway, breakups and makeups and all the things were happening at the pen. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. If you're looking for gear that aligns with your values, you have to check out Terrain. They create beautiful, durable bags from upcycled feedbags and recycled bottles, handcrafted by fair trade artisans in Cambodia.

No two designs are exactly alike, so your style is always unique. We've arranged for the best possible deal for our listeners fifteen percent off any product. Just head to our Eighties tv Ladies my Deal's link in the show notes to see all our Eighties tv Ladies deals and use the promo code Eighties tv Ladies. And We're back. I was trying to figure out how they shot it.

It feels very if Aphelia has a different feel or a different look than other other three Chemists at the time period. It looks much different than the Cosby Show. It looks much different than what I would call a traditional sitcom, even though there are times that looks like a sitcom, there are times it looks like they picked up a camera and went right in to me. Yeah, I mean I think that's some of that energy feeling right of just everybody's young and in movement constantly, and somehow they were able to capture that. Yeah, and there's a lot more locations because you know, like I was like, now they're in a basketball, now they're outside.

Like for a sitcom, it didn't feel constrained, yeah, the way most eighty sitcoms definitely felt like, oh, this is all being shot on a sound stage, and this is all being shot in the six sets they have. Yeah, no, I agree, this still felt really big. And even when you could tell like or they like pull the car into the siege or whatever tod SA and I know you just felt it felt a little bit different, like the episode where Freddy goes out with to date. Great episode. Yeah, Yeah, and like even.

Though that's clearly like we pulled the car on a stage and we put some grooms or whatever, it still had that feeling of she's all alone, yeah, out there till Dwayne managed to come in the room for the car. Right. See, you still got the feel of that even though it was shot on a stage, which I just was like, so, I know at the time I would not have noticed, but now as a as a TV writer and producer, being like day like that was good, just both the atmosphere so well for that scene. Yeah, and that's no means no Season two, episode twenty. And that was what was interesting is again it's got some really funny bits and it's a really serious episode.

There are special episodes didn't have that special sitcom episode feel. They felt like normal episodes, which also were dealing with really important stuff. I really loved the conversation between the two guys in the basketball scene. That's that's I think the basketball scene I was talking about where Dwayne is discovering information in that scene that starts to make him very uncomfortable. Yes, that his friend is talking about.

Oh yeah, I basically force women because that's what they want, right, And it's okay and for the time, you know, were there other conversations that were that complex because he liked the guy, right, Yeah, he wasn't a bad He wasn't a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah. I was really impressed with how subtle and conversational that episode. In particular was and also just the joy that she has for that guy when she's talking with her friends and she's giddy, and you remember that feeling, So it's crushing, right, like it's crushing.

I was really impressed with it in terms of being a sitcom approaching a really import vital topic that's really hard to talk about and was harder to talk about in the eighties because we didn't have language, you know, absolutely, And it was very impressive that scene that you hit on. I was, you're right, because it's that thing of he's not done anything to a pew to be a bad guy, So like that uncomfortable moment where you start to realize, oh, are you not a good person? You do it disinformation? Like we've all experienced that in our lives for different reasons, but it's just we've guys had that moment. And I was so struck by that.

And then when Dwayne goes to talk to Walter and at the end of that scene when Dwayne says, do you need to talk about this stuff too? And it was like so progressive from the eighties, right that, like, this isn't just a conversation for women to be having. You all need to be talking about this too. Worst of you who know better need to be telling the other men, this is not how you do it. Watching it, I was like, oh my god, this was it so range It is so like unbelievable.

I mean, I don't remember this show being called out for being so progressive other than it being said it like on all levels, and I knew they were happening, but I think it was a little bit like, you know, just the subtlety of how they're dealing and having these discussions. It was very unsitcomy. It approaches the Cagnium Lacy level of we're talking about things that don't normally get talked about and in a way that's entertaining and sideways and leaves you with as many questions as answers. Looking back on it, I'm wondering if one of the reasons why this show didn't get the credit it deserved for these kinds of things may have had something to do with the fact that it's a spin off of The Cosby Show and that's the big thing in the room, and oh, by the way, there's this other little show over here.

Successful. It might be it's, you know, the Cosby Show is kind of sucking all the air out of that room. Of course, if not for the Cosmi Show wouldn't have existed. But also maybe if not for the Cosby Show, it might have gotten more notoriety and more kudos for the types of things that they were doing in that respect, because they did a lot of that kind of thing throughout the course of this show. Absolutely they did, but they did not get respect for it.

You're absolutely right, Yeah, And I think you're right, Sharon. I think it was a lot of that idea, right. It was a little like Teu nepotism. It was like, well, how hard could they have it? You know, they're spun off on the Cosby Show, And it was like, h but they're not The Cosby Show.

A completely different thing. It's not like they just did Cosby Show two point zero and it was like it's the same show. It's a completely different thing. And I think for the critics, who are the people who always make those decisions about buzz and no buzz, I think they never kind of let go of the struggles the season one had and they just give the credit where credit was due of the work that was done to like put the show out ats feet in season two, right, all credit to the season one folks, because there's a lot of fun to be had there and there's a lot of interesting moments. But when you watch season one into season two, the change is so huge and you realize like how much work was really done between seasons to like make it the show we all remember.

And I think, like that deserves so much credit, because that's a really difficult thing to do. You know. The most modern day equivalent I can think of, and again people who never got the credit for it. Agents of Shield, right, completely different kind of show, but the first season there was so much like, oh, it's trying to be a case of the week and blah blah whatever, and of course nobody knowing that Marvels forcing them to tread water for sixteen episodes the story before where soldier things drops and Shield falls apart, right, the women that that show completely pivots and like amsept the momentum becomes this herd like shoot shooge show on a broadcast budget. Never got enough credit for that, And I think it's so hard for people who are writ go of the harder parts emotion shows.

I get. The online show I've ever seen Keeper really wreck Goa, those like Rocky Early moments is. Thirty Bucks, and I would say maybe Parks and rec too. I don't watch either of those. In probably Yeah and The Office Seinfeldt.

Some shows get that opportunity to figure things out and then once it's figured out, get to move forward and whatever manner the show is. But what's interesting I think about a different world as you were just saying, is there's a conscious reset right these other shows, it's the same team shifting and figuring out the show, and that seems to be a half hour comedy path is we have a general idea, we have some cool characters, but we really don't know where to take them until the end of season one and then by season two where everybody's just cooking with gas, which apparently you shouldn't do anymore. But this show had to kind of reboot itself, right with the loss of Lisa Bonet, with the loss of Mercy tome Bonet and Tomey.

I realized, Brian, when I was studying, I was like, I had never realized that before. So Bona and Tone left and the real desire to lean into the historically black college world I think, and really honor it. Even more than the being a concept for the show I think was really smart and allowing the show to do that. Cosby had broken all that ground. And you can't have the show without the Cosby Show for all sorts of reasons.

But then what this show became, You're right, does not get credit because of the shadow of the Cosby Show. And I would argue, because it's women running it, I would. One hundred percent agree with that. I think that is the historical nature of our business is. You know, It's why I think that it was that TV nepotism up.

Well, I needed to spin off so they don't. It's not like it's hard. It's like you're saying that because it's a bunch of women. Like if someone else had run the show, you would have probably been like, oh my god, look at the shore work they did. Yeah, relooting the show and all of those things, and you know, sort of to our point of bringing in the hard topics and keeping the funny and all of that.

Like I hadn't watched If I Should Die before I awake in quite a while, and so I watched it, and I mean it brought me to to yours because it took me right back to what it starts like to watch people with HIV and AIDS trade it like monsters, and how infuriating it was to be young and watching that and being like Monday has controuler for bit Mod's choosing to get set whats wrong with you people? They're treating people like they don't deserve to be hugged anymore and they don't deserve to be loved anymore because they're sick. And the women that they were able to do that, I mean, there is a part of me I'm not saying obviously I'm friends with the great mini male writers, I have like all of those things, but like the touch that was required to do that, there was a such a nurturing undertone of that, right, Debbie, being in a world right, coming from dance where lots of people were suffering and being lost from this illness and being able to like infuse that to put it out into the world, right, was just so monumental and so valuable.

And not only that, we still need messages like that in the world. Like watching that was just such a reminder to me, right you think about the politic book climate right now, can me, of course just remember that everybody is a human being, Like, can we stop with the other rain and sectioning people off? And like, I think that's part of why it hit me so powerfully again, not just the memory, but like it's so so necessary. Yeah, And I think so much of this show, like showing the differences in young people, right, showing the you know, Kim having the pregnancy scare versus what we wanted to will eat longer, to ever have sch you know, all those things. It's like we start to think of people as a monolith, and it's such a great reminder that there's all different kinds of people into the world because you see them all at the school.

It makes me think about the fact that this kind of storytelling, the kinds of topics that were touched on, not just in the Different World, but in a lot of shows in the eighties, we don't really see anymore. We don't see that kind of thing talked about in the context of the characters and people's life experiences, and I really kind of miss that. I wish there was more of that because I think it helped make a lot of difference in my opinion, in the age crisis. It helped to help people go Okay, you know whatever I've been hearing, and how are scary this is? And not to minimize it, but maybe there's a better way, different way to think about this, to deal with this.

I think there is such an absence of that in the some emo shows, and I really miss it thinking about I think the most recent version of that I can think about is how people talked about how modern family helped so many people give over the hump with gay marriage. Right, it was like, oh, we love them, so I guess it doesn't look that different and it's all fine, and like people were able to kind of take their blinders off a little bit and look. Procedural television has bought me a house. I'm grateful for it. I've done a lot of stories I cared about in the procedural space.

But it does feel like there's a little fear now of talking about real things in too real a way. Yeah, it makes me sad, Like I'm like, I want Hill Street Blues again. I want, you know, homicide, Like I want those things that talked about life in a way that isn't cops are perfect or cops are all terrible. It's like we could talk about human beings doing a really difficult job, right and then the sitcom world again, it's like trying to make space for you know, not everybody looks the same, not everybody comes from the same place. And my friend Debbie Wolf is doing the well Pest Versus Lopez show right now, and I'm just so proud of her because it's like, at least it's sometimes different right on television.

It's a different kind of family than we've seen in quite a while, and different economic situation, different everything. And it's like, thank God, And I know that eighties television and the people making it felt a need to talk about this stuff because there wasn't the Internet. There was newspaper articles, but television kind of often would break ground on this stuff. And this is doing that same thing to your point. I just I remembered there was a quote that I had pulled that was from a People magazine article quoting Don Lewis, who start as Julisa.

When a different world comes along, you're adding people of color, various shades of brown, and financial elevation, social awareness or unawareness. We painted a palette where there was someone for everyone. So anything we did, anything that our characters did to raise awareness or elevate the various facets of who we are in this fabric of this country and in our culture. I think that's what still resonates today, because we're all striving to be our best selves. Ah the facet of the historically black college experience, and as a white person and a white woman, it opened up a world to me.

It also was like, well, that looks amazing, but I was from Georgia. I grew up in Decatur, Georgia. Morehouse College is there, Spelman College is there. I knew they were there, I didn't know they were historically black colleges and universities. So I didn't know what they meant until this show, and I didn't know what they meant to the culture until this show.

And that was and has been still a real revelation because it's not what was being put on television then, and it's not as much being put on television now. Documentaries, yes, Internet, yes there's a way to find all this information, but it's not as sort of beautifully stitched into a story, which I find is such a great way to learn and to absorb information because it doesn't feel like you're learning any absolutely. I mean, when you think about you know, mostly all credit to Jasmine for the performance. And then also the way the writers wrote around Whitley, right that like there's starting shows in which Whitley's just the bad guy, where she's just the brig spoke girl and she's always looking down on people and like, yeah she's pretty and yeah she's hot, but like she's kind of a b And the fact that Whitley was always an actual person even when she was doing all those things, Like even in because I think the surprise birthday party is like before Debbie got there right where she thinks everyone forgot her birthday, But even that, we've all been the person who was like, everyone's forged it's my birthday.

Well remember it's my birthday and now crushing that is and too like watch Whitley, who has everything, goes through that moment right and I just we're watching it. Like really jumped out to me as writer. Now, Like how they wrote the other characters' reactions to her in a way that was not basically like oh really such an It was like, we love her, let's be patient, let's help her get to the thing, which is such a big difference in how you write the characters around her, and so that you know, when Dwayne falls in love with her, you totally believe that because Whitley's always been a good person in her heart. She just had a vertal mirror worldview, and they helped open it up for her. And I just think sometimes watching on TV now, like if there was a character like Walley, I would one hundred percent expect her to be written as like the butt of jokes and not get that level of humanity.

And I think that's a little of what I find is missing. Yeah, and I think it's there from season one. Yeah, Dwayne was written a certain way in season one, and so when he becomes the man he becomes, it's it's college like, it's where you've suddenly realized, like, oh, people actually do learn and grow up and make mistakes and correct them and develop their personalities to their full extent if allowed. Yeah, so I will admit it's so funny. Like in the rewatching, I remember that last season, I think I would watch and like really watch for the characters who had been there all along and kind of tune out a little bit on the younger characters because I was hitting this stage where I was tired of younger characters and shows where the young people were always the smartest person in the room, and I want whatever, But I thought it was so ugly to watch the effect that our original characters had on those younger characters, because that's what happens, right, You grow up and then you're the person the next generation wants to be.

Looking back. I'm like, oh, no, I like that. There's a huge evolution in this show. That was the other thing that I had forgotten, how it shifts and adds characters and people and sindbad and you know, like I just sort of had forgotten the richness of the cast, yeah, you know, and how much the teachers come in. Yes, And it wasn't technically on my list.

For somehow I ended up watching it was radio free Hillman, because I kind of make a list of what highlights I'm going to hit first. But of course I was watching it this week and thinking about all the college campus protests that are happening right now and going, God, I mean, I can't believe they did this right. And yet that's what was happening in the eighties too, And it's so resonant, right, Like you want young people to be passionate and protesting, and you want them to be able to do that safely, and you want colleges to make room for that. It should be where they're doing it safely. Yeah, and that's hard, and that's what the episode is all about.

Out It's crazy. It's crazy. It was stunning to me to like rewatch it and realize how much of the subject matter is still so relevant. It's like amazing and also makes me a little sad because you're like, oh, really, we haven't pushed past some of this stuff. But I feel that way.

I rewatch Hill Street Blues all the time, and I feel that way with Hill Street as well. Like if you could digitize out with giant bricks of portable phones and stuff, it would feel pretty current, honestly for a lot of the social commentary that would really I think that just shows that they really had tapped into something that is pretty universal to being young and then also very specific to being young and black. They were able to do both those things, which I think is so tricky and hard. Yeah. Admittedly, even when I was a kid, for the most part, I was not opticularly interested in shows about kids are teenagers.

I was always interested in what the grown ups were but it really has been remarkable rewatching it to see just how how remarkable it really is that I just didn't appreciate at the time. That sort of thing has been one of the gifts of doing this podcast and getting to go back and rewatch these shows and to learn to better appreciate what was happening and the women who were behind it, which frankly I never thought about it. I just figured these things showed up on my TV without really giving a lot of thought as to how that happened. Yeah. No, absolutely, And it's funny you say that, you know, because it was about the teens.

It's really unusual to me that I stuck with this show because like I was the girl who Thursday nights at ten was like, you know, let's go on TV with the dial Betwirl Hill Street and not Landing because I couldn't too because it couldn't do anything, like. Had to be there. So I was like, let's let's it's not an abby scene, Okay, let me go back. I would like go back and forth trying to keep up with both shows because I was like, screwing your networks, I am going to know what's happening on both my shows. I love that that never occurred to me.

I wish it had. Oh my yeah, they amount of relectuals I got about how I was destroying my eye sight because I would just be msscans And. Yeah, it never occurred to me either. I don't know why it never occurred to me, but it didn't occur to Oh my god, you and Stan Zimmerman was creating networks and developing his own network schedule like you guys were much more proactive. I was just trying to, you know, go through the TV god and go, I guess I have to do this one desperate times, desperate measures.

Yeah no, I too, wrote with all kind of creative solutions for things like I was a sat girl for the Birsity football team, which meant every Friday I was at a football game. But I was also obsessed with Matt Houston, which is ridiculous, but I loved it, and so I got my friend's mom because they got a VCR, and I convinced my friend's mom to record it for me. So then every Saturday I would go over to their house and watch it so they could record over them. That's fantastic. When I was a kid, we had one TV as you did, and so too, we would get into fights I guess about what to watch, and my mom finally said, okay, you each pick one show that we will watch no matter what, and everybody gets to pick a show.

So I gave it a lot of thought, thought about what everybody else liked, thought about what I liked, and I deliberately picked a show that, even though it may not have been my favorite, I knew nobody else wanted to watch, but I did. And I still got to watch other shows that I like because other people pick them. So you gotta do what you gotta do to get your TV is basically. What I'm saying. Because I was just such a TV junkie and my parents got tired of listening to me flipping the thing around, so they put a TV in my room.

Well we're done, go to your bedroom. You're sure going to do We're done with you. In ninth grade, we had to write a journal and we had to write in it Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. I like, I don't want to talk about my life, so on Mondays I would talk about what happened in the Friday episode of Matt Houston and then they would have shown the preview, and then I would have also seen the ad for the next episode apart to heart. So then Wednesday I would talk.

I would like, Monday, guess what I thought was going to happen based on the ads, And then Wednesday I would write about what really happened on Part Tart, and then Friday I would write about what I hoped was going to happen on Matt Houston. And then Monday I would come in and talk about, well, here's what really happened. And so at the end of the year, my teacher wrote a note at the top of the journal and she was like, this is a world of really the most entertaining journal I've ever read. Do you still have that journal? I wish I did.

I know, but it was probably my earliest not knowing it. But I was kind of writing fanfic right because I was kind of like, here's what I hope happened, and they're like, well, this is what they did, but here's what they should have done instead. Oh my god, you had to be a TV writer from that. From that moment on, I. Didn't realize it, but clearly it was already trying to come out.

I freaking love that, So what other shows, I mean. Industry believes to me is the greatest show on the history of television. And usually when people try to debate me, I'm like, yeah, that show wouldn't exist if Hill Street hadn't existed. So I still went because and when they did, it changed how dramas got made, and it allowed all those other shows we loved to come into existence, right Huge Wonder Years Fan, which was again unusual because it was about kids, but it felt like it was told from such a grown up perspective. So I think I always still really keyed into it.

Heartheart obviously well started pre eighties, but Dallas, Dallas was my jam, not Landing because of that Dynasty, all the Falcon Cress, all the nighttime soaps, was there for all of them. See that was a CBS nighttime soap person. I resented Dynasty for trying to steal Dallas's thunder, so I refused to watch it. And then Cagney and Lacey. My mom got me on Cagney and Lacy, so I loved that you guys talked about it.

Scarecrow in this Sking. It was my jam, had to be home to watch it. Every week and then probably in the you know, starting to get more grown up. Like Miami Life felt like a game changer to me because I just didn't know a show could look like that and feel like that, Like it was so atmospheric and so like, Also, you could never make that pilot now, Like I don't know how long it's been since she watched the Miami Life pilot. We are not even in a scene together in the first.

Really, oh wow. They don't meet until. Like the end of the first hour, basically like does he have a different partner or something? Do they have a different partner? Yes, then starts out with a different partner, and Rack goes in town without permission because he's from New York and he's working in case.

So like Ricker just seems like a guy in the mix of the drug world or whatever. And then it's like, oh, no, I'm really a cop from New York. I'm here to find who killed my brother. And then it's like, oh, like that, you can never go right with that. Now they move it left.

I had been keeping a list of all the TV shows I had ever watched in my lifetime, and the rule for the list was I had to have gotten through at least one complete episode to be on the list. If I got mad during the pilot and turned it off, it didn't count. Admittedly, there were shows on there that I would not have watched by choice, but I used to do close captioning for television, so I still watched them. They still counted. Did you really?

I did. I worked for our company in the nineties called caption zinc. Oh, Yes, I remember the name. Yeah, I worked with I TAG. Yes, I remember the name as well.

Anyway, you guys could have met, they could have I know. And so I was getting close to one thousand. So Amanda Green, who's one of my dear friends that I met on that show, was like, you have to write about what you've learned from watching one thousand TV shows, and so I did. So much of my taste buds came from watching right. I know.

I don't like a show where people die every week. It it's like hum dives this week. I'm out Because I love TV because I get to build a relationship with the characters. If you're going to kill somebody, a better count. And I realized, like a lot of that's from the shows I watched growing up, and how much of an impact it would have, right, because they used to be so skittish about killing people off on shows, and like the impact it has, like when it happens that you're just so it should really matter.

And I think that's one of my biggest takeaways from being a fan of TV. So I'm very appreciative to all of those writers that I watched growing up who were like, make it count. If you're going to do it, make it count. And you also have written a book. I did.

I wrote The writers Shoan Survival died a little against my will at first. Carol Kirshner, who was an amazing human being who administers the CBS Writer's Mentorship Program which is now the Paramount Program and does show run her training at the Writer's Guild, was sort of one of the first people to believe in me as a TV writer, and thus I adore her. And she was like, I really think somebody should write a book like this, and I was like, someone should. That's a great idea. And like the fourth time she was like, Nicole, you I'm trying to tell you write a book.

I was like, I don't think I have I don't want to write a book, and then I wrote a table of contents and set it to some friends to be like, what am I missing? And they told me and I was like, oh, yeah, A lot to say about that, and suddenly I had an idea. For a book. So there you go. Congratulations, don't screw up the lunch order and other keys to a happy writer's room.

Several people of the isn't that more about the writer's assistant, and I was like, no, it's the person in the writer's room who makes lunch difficult if you're in the writer's room, and it's like, I don't want to disparage a restaurant, but restaurant X, which I hate, I am not going to throw fit because we're going there. I'm going to just go to the commissary and grab my own lunch. But the people who were like non't want that, or if you're gonna go there, can you also stop at this other place that's like two blocks away. And I was like, no, unless you were the showrunner, you either say thank you for my lunch or you take care of yourself. You do not run the PA crazy.

So I did. I got my whole start in procedurals, and I think a lot of that was I grew up in a house where my parents loved cop shows. Right. My parents were also responsible for my Dallas addiction. They were responsible for China Beach kinda Beach.

Yeah. They were definitely some shows that my parents got me into that were not the traditional like top shows, but like Little Street was my parents' fall homicide I think I found on my own, But like you know, Policewoman and Nick Lionlan and like all of those shows, and I had always enjoyed them, and so definitely a lot of my early work was doing specs whatever the modern day equivalent of those shows were, and like really honing that and trying to find my way in. The first spec I ever wrote was for The X Files and it's d dreadful, but it taught me a lot. So, like, you have to learn the stuff to get better because it sounds great, and then you sit down and do it and you're like, oh, this is hard.

Yes, it's hard work to write an hour of television. It doesn't just magically come out of you. But so I did a lot of that procedural work. This show where I whirled myself to the place I had always rubbed a genre on top of my procedurals, Buck Rogers, o G, Battlestar, Original Star Trek, Next Generation, Next Generation is my my touchdown. I love it.

So that world had always fascinated me and I read comics right. Never recurred to me in a million years that writing comic book TV shows was going to be a thing that seemed like like I had watched Original Flavor, Wonder Woman. It didn't seem like they wrote that was coming back great, credible, holt great, something I watched as a kid, never coming back again. And then here I am in the TV business and Agents of Shield happens, and now suddenly comic book TV shows are a thing. And I don't think it is an exaggeration to say that I just sent everyone I knew I tailor included to the Marvel offices to be like, how have you not interviewed Nicoles?

So that by this time I got a meeting at Marble. I walked in the door and they were like, so I heard you watch everything, and I was like, I do, which show would you like to talk about first? And that is how I got my job on Cloak and Dagger. I got off of that, got a meeting with Joe Kokoskie, who was like, even though he teached me mercilessly about my agents of Shield Love hired me anyway. I did what.

I'm so glad you brought up Cloak and Dagger because I'm a big fan of Cloaker Dagger. I love Olivia Holt. I think I love her as an actress, and I know Joe Pokowski, so I was like watching that show sort of from the I wish, I wish there was more of that show, so I. Would believe me, Like I really thought we were going to get to go back for season three, and we were pretty hopeful until they killed us. But it was just an absolute dream come true.

Like you know, they were allot fear that you're going to get to do the thing you always dreamt of doing and it's not going to be great, but it was. Joe runs such a good room, and like the writers were great, the cast was great. It was just such a terrific job and like I would still be there. Can you tell us a little bit about your show now that you're working on Sure? So Found for those of you who have not seen it, stars the Amazation Nola Hampton as a woman who when she was in high school, was kidnapped by her teacher and help preserve for a year, and he kidnapped a second child, and she was like no and escaped and saved herself and the other child.

He got away. He has now been at large for twenty some odd years. This is not really a spoiler, because if you saw the commercials for the show, you definitely got this was. She now finds people who are living, specifically people who police are less likely to be looking for, so people of color, people from the lgbt QIA community, people who fall through the cracks. So that's your rocation.

She has a whole team people who help her do that. She also has her tidnapper locked in her basement. She tracked him down and is now building him prisoner, forcing him to help her find other bad guys. So that's kind of the premise. We left you on a very big cliffhanger.

Well, I should say the other writers did, because I was not there season one, but I am now part of season two. It's so great to me because anyone who follows me on socials news that I have been reposting stuff from the Black and Missing Foundation for three years. I think since the documentary aired on HBO. When people who are black and browns are missing, they don't get the media attention that a lot of other folks do. And so to get to make television that talks about something that matters to me that much is pretty exceptional.

You get to do some really fun work in this business. It's not often that you yet to also talk about something that you're that passionate and about when you haven't been able to create the show. So it's pretty pretty wonderful to be in kj's universe and working on the show. And it stars Mark Paul Gossler, who used to be in Settled by the Bell plays our villain, Sir. So if you're an old Stayed by the Bell fan and you want to see him in a different light, he is he is Sir.

He is our kidnapper, and he's wonderful. And it's very strange because he's such a lovely human and he plays such a bad guy. It's a pretty intriguing concept. I don't think I've heard of anything quite like that before. Definitely kudos to whoever thought that up.

Yes, that was the goddess in kJ. Carroll, who also runs All American and All American Homecoming, so basically doesn't sleep because she has three shows on broadcast telling me but she is an amazing human and like, you know, just like us, grew up loving television, grew up watching all these shows and now eats them and hires people like me to write them, which is an awesome thing. Well, we clearly could talk forever, oh gosh, yes, but apparently we have to stop sometime. I love those eighties ladies and they're having a blast and they're wonderful on like. I follow Susan Sullivan and she's always posting really like like good morning and be positive and everything in love in the world.

Yes, I am stalking some of them, hoping that someday they'll follow me back in my candem and go please come on. So if you ever get Susan Sullivan to come out and talk about Falcon Crest, you have to let me at least just come listen. Okay, you got it. Yeah, Falcon Crest was one of my shows. I will try to hold it together.

It might be my. Favorite nighttime soap of all time. Dallas for several years was great. Not s Landing for several years was great. Falcon Crest like Jimmiman was just wo I heard David Selby together Barely Crap.

Not Sliding is my favorite of them, not the least of which because of the incomparable Donna Mills, who played the most amazing villainous but not villain I mean she just she was somebody who knew what she wanted went after it. But she wasn't evil exactly. She was a three dimensional person. I was always on Abbey side. I was always on.

Abbyside sensing we need a whole different podcast, maybe not even just an episode. I think clearly you guys have a lot of opinions. We're going to have you back, so. So much fun. I do want to run through the numbers.

So how many women were on this show behind the scenes? Based on my count on IMDb, five out of twenty two directors or women, But that's not telling the whole story. The top three are all women, including top one Debbie Allen, who directed eighty three episodes of a Different World, which is stunning. Until Debbie Allen started working on Grays Naty a few years ago, I had no idea she had this whole career behind the camera. I didn't.

She does get some flowers. She doesn't get nearly enough, and she certainly didn't get nearly enough on this show. From the Emmys, it was nominated three times only, I know. I'm so stunned at that out of one hundred and forty four episode, six seasons, nominated three times for technical Direction, which they didn't even name her in, and two guest things. Don't even because thankfully she does have twenty Emmy nominations and five wins, two Tony's and Golden Globe, and she got a star on the Hollywood Walker Fame in ninety nine.

One yes, yes, did you in the Hndrowoet episode. That's like a bit in the Honeymoon episode when she's cleaning her star. It's a bit. It's delight Well, yeah, she's amazing. Nobody has earned it Kennedy Center honor more completely, I don't think.

I will also say that of the writers on a Different World, twenty of the forty seven listed writers were women. If you think about like twenty women at that like those years, that's that's remarkable, Yeah, outstanding. That was clearly very intentional, because you could find a lot of shows from back then that did not have that level of female invelopment. It was very intentional and I think it was Debbie Ellen, and I think it was Susan fails Hill, who we will be talking to on this show for one of our episodes. Stay tuned.

Oh my gosh, Okay, thank you, please come back. I would love to come back. Thank you. This was so much fun, so much fun, and really it it's really hard for you to name an eighties show that you wanted me to talk about that I had anty really seen. Okay, so we are definitely going to take you up on that.

We are definitely going to take you up on that thanky so much. This was still fun, Thanks Nicole. I'm using our thirty percent off discount at Cozy Earth to get some amazing soft bamboo sheets for Richard and I. You can go to Eighties tv Ladies my deal's link in the show notes to see all our Eighties tv Ladies deals. Use our code Eighties tv Ladies as your promo code.

The discount was twenty one percent and off. Now we get to offer you thirty percent off. The Eighties tv Ladies promo code will always get you the best available discount at Cozy Earth, so go now get Cozier thirty percent off. It may drop back down to twenty one percent. So go now.

In today's audiography find a different world streaming on that and you can learn more about Nicole Levy at Nicole Levy dot com n ic EO L E l e vy dot com. There'll also be. A link in our description on that site. You can find her article what I learned watching one thousand television shows, and we'll have a link that'll take you directly there. And of course the book today is The Writer's Room Survival Guide, Don't screw Up the Lunch Order and other Keys to a Happy Writer's Room by Nicole Levy.

We hope Eighties TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous old and news shows to watch, all of which will lead us forward toward being amazing ladies of the twenty first century. It's a different so pretty Hey your briesday blood cop and try meghanic work a hard for money Bamber anything