The 90s TV Babies Take On Remington Steele

Hi, This is Robin burn High tried this for a deep dark secret. You're listening to Eighties TV Ladies podcast. Welcome back. I'm Susan Lambert HadAM and I'm Sharon Johnson. You know what makes me happy talking about television and the eighties and cool ladies, especially with the nineties TV babies.

Today we have the nineties TV babies. Serta, Megan and Sergio are going to come on the show and give us their perspective on Remington Steel. We're being successful in your career if you were a woman in the eighties, meant creating a fictitious male boss to take all the credit. I'm so excited to hear what our nineties TV babies think because they kind of surprisingly loved Scarecrow and This is King. I know, I was really pleasantly surprised because I thought they were going to trash the show that I secretly loved when I was child.

I thought they were too, but they were very excited, So I'm really excited to hear what they think as well. I want to welcome to the podcast our nineties TV babies. We have Sergio Perez, Serta Fontanesi, and Meghan Ruble, Hello nineties TV babies. Hello, you guys are looking beautiful today on Zoom unmade Dead. No one thought I was a ut Austin college student this week, So you're feeling good, all right, I'm going to ride this high for a while.

All Right. I am super excited because we were just talking, Sharon and I about what we thought you were gonna think of this show. Oh and now we don't really know. We just don't know. We're excited to hear your thoughts about Remington's all right, So we're just going to hand it off to you guys, and I'd be very curious here.

So here's what we do. We had you guys watch two episodes I can't even remember, watched three three three episodes episodes the pilot in two episodes, one in the first season, one in the second season. Okay, so you could you can meet Mildred Crebs. Okay, all right, So what do you think? We were talking a little before we got on, and I think we're kind of we're divided, actually, whereas I feel like there's a spectrum.

Yeah, yeah, that's a better way to say spectrum. Yeah, do tell. I'll start, well, all transparency, I did not finish all three episodes because I got bored and did not want to keep watching it. And that's my truth, and live it. Live that truth.

You deserve it. Thank you. I will admit that makes me a little sad, but that's okay, Okay, I really want I really wanted to. Maybe I went in with two high of expectations. I don't know, although I did really enjoy Scarecrow, So I don't know.

Here we are here, we are So what bored you? The plot? So you watched the you watched the pilot episode? Correct, I watched the pilot. I watched season one episode twenty one.

Was that it was Yes. I started the season two episodes okay, and you were out, but then I was out the okay. I think mostly what it was is it's a very slow paced show for me personally, and I just was like, if they don't spit the words out, I'm gonna lose it. Like everyone is talking so slowly, and we've been here for an hour and I still couldn't tell you who I was supposed to care about. So interesting, all right, I okay, So I'll come in.

I'll come in hot. Yes, that is awesome in some ways, even though again I am also in someone in my heart dual disappointed for in hot, but you came in ninety degrees humidity, like an angle. Everything that's the right angle. Well, and so you guys, like, let like for Scarecrow, you guys two of you got together, the ones that are in LA got together. Did you guys do the same thing this time?

No, because you couldn't because everybody's so busy now right, So um, and then everybody watched it separately. Okay, so did you watch it alone on your computer? Watched it on TV? You watch on your TV like a like a real girl. I turned on the Google, well, the Amazon Firestick, Amazon Prime, all right, Megan, Okay, so I'm the I'm the in between.

So I'll come in with my dislikes and then transition and into my legs. Um my, So I actually I liked it more as I went on. Um, I wish I had. I will probably go back and watch more of season two. I don't really have a desire to watch more of season one.

Necessarily. I struggle just from like the angle of what we're talking about here. I struggled with the fact that we had this like empowered female lead, but I cared way more about him. I was way more interested in what was going on with him, And I mean part of that just might be, like Chris Brosen is a really charming guy and a really fantastic actor. Um, I kept thinking the whole time.

I was like, I don't remember Chris Brosden being the skinny and the like half Armenian in me like fully took over and was like he needs food, give him a sandwich, someone to help him. Yeah, more than that. Um. But yeah. Struggled with that a little bit where I was like, man, I want to like and care about the female.

But I also struggled and less so in the episode that I watched of season two, but I struggled with the fact that, like, she was supposed to be this incredible detective who just needed him as a front and then in many ways he's equal to her and they balance each other really well, which is also a pro. Like I enjoyed watching their relationship developed because of that, but it was sort of like she does need him. The episode with her mom, I was like, Oh, she does not know what to do, she has no clue what's going on. How did she become this good. I don't believe it because of what I'm watching way less so in what I've watched of season two, she seemed they seemed to have either corrected their error or the actress got more comfortable whatever it was like she seemed a lot more adept at her job, which made me feel better.

Yeah, I agree with Serena a little bit. It's a little slow moving and a little bit like, wait, was I just not paying attention enough? Did I miss that detail? Or are we just throwing details in that I wasn't ever going to pick up on. I really like the thing I really like about episodics, like even growing up and like watching like Law and Order and things like that, is, even if you don't solve the mystery that is presented to you at the beginning of the episode, if you go back on a good episode like that, the details are all there.

And I didn't really find that that was the case. Each time. I was sort of like, Oh, if I went back, I think I'd still be a little confused as to this happened. Yeah, I'm glad she figured it out. I'm glad you figured it out, but I still have not figured this out.

Positives though I really enjoyed their relationship. Listen that season two episode when she looks at him and is like basically like, if you ask, I'll have sex with you, and he goes, I'm not going to ask. I was like, yes, yes, we love a man who's really into you, and is like, this is not the appropriate time. I'm going to set this boundary and take care of you and put you to bed, Love you, goodbye. Love that.

Also, like for all of the writing issues I had with how like the plot came together, a lot of the banter is really great. Sorry, I watched the season two one more recently, so it's more fresh in my mind. But like loved the references to It Happened One Night and Casablanca and the way they like cinematically worked those in that was super fun. I just truly loved that Beverly Garland is every one's mother. Um, I want Beverly Island to also be my mother.

But yeah, so I struggled a little bit with it, But I think had I not been looking at it from the lens of like this show where I'm trying to look at like is this a feminist show? I might have enjoyed it a little more, but because I would have been more invested in him. So if I'm being totally honest and his story and his growth, all right, Answergio, all right, pilot episode gets an eight. Okay from me, it's a generous eight. I know it's more on the side of by the way, for those who are who aren't checking at ourson Serena gave a little side eye to that or a lot.

Yeah, I can't think of really, there are very few shows I can think of where I would give the pilot anything above like a six and a half. Okay, okay, Missus Masl is actually better than everything else that came after. I like Missus Maisel. That's not to diss it. But episode twenty one, I'd say it gets like a six for me.

That's where it dipped a little bit. I was like, ah, you know, I'm like okay with this. Like they filmed on location at the Bonaventure, which was cool. I've been in that elevator, my parents got married there, like hello, so I felt a little kinship with that one. Episode two is the one that I have also watched the most recently but also enjoyed the most of because I think that It was less about like, oh, this is the thing that's happening right now, like these are the bad guys, the people you need to know.

It was really just about like what kind of people Laura Holt and Pierce Brosnan's unnamed character as of now, like what their relationship is, and like how she is just like a woman with nothing to lose at this point, now that her house is blown up. And yeah, I mean like I enjoyed it. This is also coming from somebody who consumes Marvel movies like the popcorn that I walk into them with. So take that however you will. Um, don't, don't, don't, don't shame you're liking That is interesting though, because I'm not a Marvel movie fan either, So I do think it's interesting that Sergio and I are like the two ends of the spectrum, and it seems that like our like preferences are.

I don't know that they're fairly different, but in this particular case, like Marvel, no Marvel, maybe no eights. So season two, episode two gets another eight. From me. Um, yeah, I liked it. It was it was a good time.

They were in the X Mansion at the very end, just walking through those hallways that like, we're so futuristic for an aircraft company. That was cool. I also like that in the pilot episode, the villain was literally Elon Musk because he was this guy who was trying to peddle a car that no one wants and is also waiting on a shipment of gems that belonged to the South African government. So I don't know, maybe a time traveler wrote that episode, but the notes a guy named John DeLorean who that character in the pilot was modeled after. There we are our eighties Elon Musk if you will, there you go?

Yeah, who did like was he convicted of? He did some some you know, shady shady business right like yeah, yeah, he was charged and convicted with. I think it was like wire fraud ultimately was what he was charged with. But he got himself caught up in a whole FBI staying operation situation. Oh wow, I'm very impressed that you know that.

Let that be a Listen. There's a podcast that I like called You're Wrong About and they did an episode. Ah yeah, here you go. Shout out to that podcast. Shout out to you making that connection, Sergio, that's a pretty good connection.

Though, because he was kind of the elon Moscow more time, not the only one, by the way, which is one of our problems. Now, okay, so so oh my god, all right, well this is this has just thrown things into a tizzy. Share I will, I will admit. Of the two shows, this one was by far my favorite. I far preferred Remington Steel and watched Remington Steel as it aired.

I did not watch Scarecrow and Missus King. I was aware of it because it was easy to be aware of everything that was on television back then. But for whatever reason, scheduling conflicts or whatever, I did not watch it. But this show I watched every episode I made. I'm sure I made a point to be available to watch because I love the two of them together.

I loved Laura Holt as a single woman who's unapologetically feminist and you know, knows what she wants out of life, and frankly, I'm still trying to figure that out, but still was nice to see on television and was taking charge of their relationship. She's the one that was saying, these are conditions under which things are going to go forward with us, and unless and until that happens, we're not you know, this is this is as far as we go. And they also had a number of very frank, very adult, very calm conversations about that very thing, which I also really appreciated, and I don't think I've actually seen on television since other than the blow up the house episode season two. I'm trying to remember what episode was, which was an exceptional episode.

They had some of that conversation, but they did only get a small slice of the show, but you got the show. You those episodes do represent the shows. Well, yeah, I was gonna say their relationship to me, I was surprised actually, because the pilot obviously like sets up the intrigue more than it does like what their relationship will become. But like, I was surprised by how it wasn't just like a romantic or even a will they won't they? Like, I was shocked to get into season two and say that they already were to some extent, and I was like, wow, that's bold.

Okay, cool, but yeah, to see kind of like a relationship with give and take and having them sess things out and not in a soap opera way, in a like m We're gonna go get my cat you're cute, Well let's go get my cat way. You know that was still fun and playful and still kept but also was like healthy. I'm I hesitate to say only because as I've only watched a couple episodes, so I don't want to call something healthy that could have had some very toxic elements to it. I mean, maybe that's my toxic trait is. I was just like, I again need to know if I need to care about these people, and you're not getting I'm not getting like oh, like yeah, I'm not getting the will they won't they?

The back and forth, the tension, there's no like Gray's anatomy like mcdree like I want, yeah, you know interesting, And I think that's the that's funny. That's the struggle with that, right is that? And we're kind of having that struggle now is like how do we have drama but not portray problematic relationships on television too? I think because we didn't get the like melodramatic love affair I was. I was ready to be like, Okay, fine, this isn't a show about two characters falling in love in the midst of a thin plot, right, Like we all know that type of show.

So then I was like, Okay, so like we're gonna really get into like the PI Detective stuff and like this is gonna be more like a procedural and I and that doesn't happen either, So then I just sort of felt like I don't know what kind of show you're trying to give me. So I am like, and you felt confused and lost, yes, and not in like a fun way, yeah, just in like, oh God, like either I need this to swing even just a little bit in one way or the other. So then I could feel more grounded and what I was watching. And I think that was then made even bigger by the slower pace. And I think Megan you were the one who said, like there were times where it was like, so I just miss the d the moment that would explain this moment or did they just not give me a backstory and I'm supposed to just ride with it.

I was asking too many questions, per usual. I think that and for me, when when that sort of thing happens to me when I'm watching something, it's it's an indication of how unengaged I am, because if I'm thinking too much about those things, I'm not going on the ride, whatever the ride is, so clearly that's what was happening. I think with you with regarding when you were watching the show, which is what it is. It's you know, it's perfectly fine. Another question that came to mind note based on something that Megan said.

I would imagine you're all familiar with Pierce Brosnan before you watched the show. But how many of you had heard of or knew of Sephanie Zimbalist before you watch this show? You know, I actually watched this. I watched it with my dad and my sister, and so we're watching it and as we're going, like, obviously everyone knows who Pierce Brosnan is. He was James On, he was in MoMA Mia.

Like, everyone's like having a great time. They're like, oh my god, this is presbably charming. My sister's going through it and she's like, you know, the most messed up thing about this is that she is also acting her ass off. And I have never heard of Stephanie's Enblist until today when I watched this with you, and I said yes, and we went into her history. She went to Juilliard, she went to an all girls high school, and an all girls middle school, Like she is a woman with like she has the chops, like she has it, extraordinarily talented and like she was a real joy to watch.

And I was like, yeah, I have no idea who she was before this, but like, obviously, Susan like I like know her now because we've just been talking about her for months on months on months, And I'm like, oh, but yeah, I was watching the show in the living room, like I said on the television, and my husband came in and he's a huge James Bond fan, like has read the books, seen all the movies, has lots of thoughts and opinions about it. And he comes in and of course he launches into how Pierce braws, I'm gonna it's okay, thank you, thank you. How people didn't like him as James Bond at first because they didn't think that he had the like a genius that Sean Connery brought to the role, Like he was gonna be too soft and too just like pretty yeah, uh, and I see that.

And also obviously he did perfectly find as James Bond. But in the show, I definitely if I had seen him in the show, and then was like, Oh, and that person's going to become James Bond. I fully understand that concern because he definitely is like just like a charming, pretty, charming pretty guy who can also do spy stuff in uh in remy wow, words are very hard today and come to the party, Serena. Thank you for understanding getting my brain has melted in this Texas heat. But yeah, like there wasn't I can say, like a thing that I did appreciate it about him in the show is that he wasn't this just like tough, No at all.

I don't need a woman because I'm a big strong man like he. There was a team work between at least an understanding of we need each other to pull off the things that we want. And so yeah, thinking about that character and then James Bond, I fully see how people would be suspicious, especially coming off of Sean Connery. I mean not like Sean Connery is this like super rugged like Lumberjack, but you know, comparing them, I see why people would be hesitant. And my brother actually, who is one of the biggest James Bond and fans that walks the Earth, had exactly the same reaction when it was announced that Pierce brosen And might be James Bond.

He was not having it for that very reason. He once Pierce brows And became James Bond. He was perfectly fine with it, he said, but he just wasn't ready then. He was too skinny, was one of the things he mentioned. So I totally get it, But until we started having this conversation, it didn't occur to me that.

So when I watched the show as it aired originally, I knew of Stephanie Zimbalist, and like almost everybody else, had no idea who Pierce Browsenon was. So I didn't have that, for lack of a better word, baggage coming in when I'm watching it, And maybe that allowed me to see them both on the same level without because he was a blank slate to me. He was just gorgeous, extraordinarily talented, extraordinarily funny, extraordinarily you know, he could do it all kind of actor, especially, had that great access to what's not to like about that? But if you're coming in with all the other things he's done since in your head and you have no idea who Stephanie Zimbalist is, that's not going to help in terms of I think getting you into Remington Steel.

So that's so interesting. It's so interesting. She was number one on the call sheet. It was her show. She got to decide whether Pierce.

She fought for Pierce Brosnan like she They were listening to her because she was known, she was the star of that show. She respected to women, was constantly advocating out here for others and then never getting not getting the return on investment. Well, and what's interesting is so we have interviewed Stephanie Zimbolists and one of the writers from the show, and Stephanie talked and she talked at the time as well about difficulties between them. Right, there's this like weird like did they get along? Did they not get along?

There's a little bit of that out and that was the show and post show, and basically they're like, yeah, we got along. We were both in our twenties, we were both on a TV show that was shooting sixteen hours, and we both had very strong ideas about what our art was. So we also didn't always get along, but that was because we were fighting for what we believed in, not because we hated each other. We liked working together and We respected each other, but it didn't mean that we were always on this, you know, oh yeah, this should be done with. And I think in particular, after season one, Stephanie Zimbalis was like, Hey, by the way, this is supposed to be my show.

This is supposed to be about Laura Holt being a great detective. Maybe we can get back to the premise of the show, and was really pretty insistent. And I think you see when they start listening in season two, and I think season two in season three benefit from that. Female writers start coming onto the show. From what everybody says.

Michael Gleeson adorable, Adorable, adorable, one of the first female writers on the show. Robin Bernheim actually talked about how supportive he was, but still was like, oh yeah, he was supportive because when I was being shut out by the other guys in the room, he would take me aside and go, all right, listen, Cookie, you don't listen to them. You're a great writer. And she's like, it was great. I felt great because he was supporting me us to the side, but he was still calling me cookie, and so she's like, it didn't like at the time, I was just happy to be in the room right, But then you're also realizing, oh, they're all going off to lunch and I'm not invited.

Again, the voices in the room right, not having a lot of room to advocate for the voices on screen. And again this show was really groundbreaking for me, like because of the lower whole character, because of that opening saga cell at the beginning of season one, which which goes away, they don't do it again. It gets weirder and weirder the opening of the of the of the show, the title sequence. But but that opening with her like, you know, try this with her beautiful voice and that long like oh it's a mystery and no da da and it's great, and you're like she's explaining the show and she's she's in charge. And then the very last line of it, which I still don't know why they do it, she goes, I don't even know his real name, and you're like, it's always bugged me because you're like, you're a detective, lady.

You just spent like the last ten lines telling us what a great detective you are, maybe detect something. Why don't you figure out what his real name is? It's always bugged me. I don't think I fully realized how much that irritated me until right now, and I think that is what set me up for failure. Show in what world are you a detective and you don't know this man's name?

Do you know the amount of sleuthing I have done to find out more than a man's name, Like I just to her credit, this is pre Google, pre Internet, so you had to she could have gone to the library. Okay, you're supposed to be a PI and your job is detecting. I'm a little stressed that you can't find this man's name. I one thousand percent agree, But I also that season two opener is strange, and I missed the like film lady film noir, Like it was like the reverse of a film noir, right where she is the detective and she's like, he walked into my life, and then he's he walks in and is the mysterious film fatale, and I'm like, I'm into this. I like this opening.

I agree with you about the line that's a little silly because then also at the very last moment makes it about him in a way where it's like we get it. You ask him his name? Like every episode, why am I don't need this here too, But yeah, that season two opening credits thing, I was like, why why are we at a movie theater? What's going on? What's watching clips of?

Yeah, we've talked about that because it's it. I also adore it in some way, even though it's absurd and ridiculous and doesn't make absolutely any sense. Like, so somebody put some clips together of you guys fighting crime because they were filming you, and then you went into a movie theater. It's some popcorn and just the two of you watch these, which also, you're not very good detectives. If people were able to get footage of you being a detective, it's it's eighties.

I'm a big fan of the show psych obviously not an eighties show, but so like, I am willing to suspend a lot of disbelief and like typical structure for something that I enjoy. But yeah, I was just like I, it does doesn't feel like you're good at this. It doesn't feel like you even like each other that much. But maybe a lot I just help me where to stay yet. See.

The thing for me about the pilot is that they were like she was jumping through hoops to be like, yeah, mister mister Steele's out and he's not going to be here. We had just have to make his presence feel known. And then Pierce Brosden, whose character at this point is still unnamed and I don't know and I don't know if I'll ever find out, just walks on to set one day and is like, yeah, this is my joint now, and then it like just there was never a moment of like, yeah, see, she can pull off just as Laura Holt with Remington Steel somewhere else and no one's going to ask her any questions about it. Right from the jump, it was okay, now Pierce Brosden is here, Now she has to deal with him, and now you see like her cracking under the pressure of like, oh, Remington Steel is now here, Like I would like to have seen a little bit more of her running her own business with Remington Steel still a mystery.

The original concept for the show by Robert Butler was just the female detective who created a fake boss so she could be a female detective. Everybody's like, oh, it's not ready, and it was like the fifties or sixties. He's like, wouldn't this be great? And he was a huge director. He directed like a ridiculous everything, right, And so they're like, oh, yeah, that's great, little director, you had an idea.

Good for you. Not yet, right, lady, lady run into things. We all do that. Once Mary Tylanmore comes on, he brings it back to MTM and they're like, hmm, all right, we're gonna team you with Michael Gleeson who's a writer. And again, Michael Gleeson's not wrong that they needed something else.

It's not a it's a really great idea that then oh and then trouble walks in the door, right, and then this guy walks in and is basically going to be the basics, Like, it adds a lovely clever thing. It as a whole other layer to a show. Gives you a lot more to work with these two people instead of one person. But it's not the same show, and it's not at all a better feminist show. Yes, Like again, I actually think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if the whole if there had been no Remainton steel and it was just half farce her trying to cover Yeah, yes, like I mean that's the fun of psych Like if he's not really a psychic detective.

And I guess the tension is the fact that his dad is a retired cop and could out him at any moment. So and I assume that that is the purpose of her of bringing the guy in to be like well, and then now there's going to be a real person who plays a fake person, and we also have to it was we have to unravel his story and keep her like charade going, and then add in this element of like love romantic possibility but wanting to keep it very professional like whatever. And so I feel like I never really and again, I've watched like two and a half episodes you're talking about the show, like you watch more than two and a half episodes none the power of Confidence, But like I if you had shown me a show that was just her trying to fake it like that would have been a lot of fun.

And I think we could have found some really great women's empowerment when she inevitably gets caught by someone somewhere along the way and then can be like, you know, some big speech of like but I've been doing it all by myself the whole time. Pay attention to the woman behind the curtain, Hey, right, right, or if it had always been billed as and I guess it kind of was because this comes out in the pilot. But if it had always been this like male female buddy cop type of detective situation, that could have been a fun show and we could have had some really great like women's empowerment of like how she checks him and how she does get to be a really great detective regardless of if he is involved or not, and having to force him to reckon with you are here because people will listen to you solely because you're a man, not necessarily because of your talent or skill.

Like that's like, okay, yeah, let's dig into that. But then like they just did it all and they lost me, they lost her, Well they do they do? They do again? Yep, what you're asking for is in other episodes of the show. Yeah, and they do speak to Mildred.

Kreb spends two seasons thinking that the guy playing Remington Steel is the boss, and she keeps going, you're not the boss, and she's like, just you have to listen to me, until finally she gives up the ghost and then and then basically Mildred is like on her side than from that on out that that's very fun. You know. In general, in general, the purpose of the pilot to me is pilots rarely are perfect, but there should be something there that makes you say, I want to see more of this. That's what you're looking for. Do I want to spend more time with these characters in this situation?

And to me, that's what the purpose of the pilot is. And it either works for you that way or it doesn't. Having said that, there were many pilots that I've seen that I went no, I don't think so, and then it turns out to be a great show. Blackish is one of them. I was not sold on the pilot, but I love the show.

Subsequently, there have also been many shows that have had great pilots, but then the show turned out not to be so good. Another one that comes to mind was one that was on ABC called Mister Mayer Fantastic Pilot, but they didn't quite know what to do after the pilot and it just barely made it through one season. But at the end of the day, again, the whole purpose of the pilot is to get you to say, I want more of this, and it either does that for you or it doesn't whether it be the setting, whether it be the characters, whether it be the actors. I mean, I've watched a lot of shows that aren't that great, but because of an actor or two, I'm here for this because I love that person that actor, loved to watch them perform.

So yeah, as I've said, this is this is one of my favorite eighty shows. And everything is not for everybody, so and mine too. And it's funny because we don't all like like, we're not always in agreement. But there was not a character like Lure Holt on eighties television at the time. There just was not.

There was not a woman that was independent, unmarried and career focused in a way that looked fun and like, oh, that's what she's she's getting exactly what she wants and she's crafting a path for herself to achieve her goals, and even when people show up to distract her from that, she still always comes back to that. And so that was very powerful for a lot of women, businesswomen, a lot of women that were trying to find a way through that really, we're not interested in getting married and we're not interested in and there weren't a lot of shows there were divorced people they were, you know, like Scarecrow miss King, where it's like, oh, I thought I was going to do this, and then I'm going to fall my way into a career.

You know. I love Scarecrow obviously am Missus King, but it's a different kind of character. And so here's now when he brings us to our question, is it really feminist and progressive? Megan go the most uncomfortable looking versions the power of zoom to follow up on our Scarecrow Missus King point. I'm going to take care of the easy one and use myself into the harder one.

It is certainly not intersectional, unfortunately to be expected, but unfortunately it's true. I don't okay, so, m had you not just said what you said, I think I would have been more on the fence. But yeah, I think it is feminist in the same way that I think Buffy is feminist, like coming from the nineties, and the same way that I think Buffy is feminist in that like if this is what if I'm putting this on the lens of this is the time period I have to work with. This is revolutionary, this is something that does not exist. This is an example of a woman I'm seeing that I don't get to see anywhere else now, not so much.

I can pick a lot of different types of women that have that are like independent and give up love or give up other things in order to pursue a career and decide to be focused on that. Um so not. I wouldn't say progressive, but like if I'm transporting myself back to the eighties, I'm like, hell, yeah, I want to be this woman when I grow up. Like this is feminist to this that period. That feels like kind of a cheating answer.

It's good answer, No, it's fine, yeah, because there is really no right or wrong answer to this question. Yes, we did not agree exactly this question, and neither did Melissa. We were We're on the spectrum, all right, Sarrita. I would disagree with Buffy. I do think she holds up in today, but that's another podcast sequel.

Yeah, you know, I think. But to that point though, I do think that in terms of the time and place in space of this show, yes, it there's a woman lead who, as confused as I might have been, her main priority is not to get a man, and especially for the time revolutionary um and knowing more about the behind the scenes of the show, I am much more intrigued, um in her, in her arc and her journey. Um, yeah, obviously it's not intersectional. Everyone's white. Everyone's like British, so like the whitest white, you know, like everyone is so white that I like, so the same look that I got confused?

I think what the part of who am I supposed to care about? I just was getting confused. Um, so you know, like what I say, it's progress it like no under early it's not under a modern lens. But still regardless of whether it's a show that I would have tuned into every night, I do think it is a show that was was serving an important purpose in its time of yeah, just giving women a space to be the center and to be the like main focus or true another great non answer, that's all right, Sergio for the time. Yeah, I mean the lines were written very explicitly.

There were a lot of points of just like, oh see, I don't I'm not here to talk to a secretary and she's like, actually I'm not. A second, like, they were very explicit about what her relationship to work was and the people and how they perceive her as a woman in this like, is there a detective industry in this? In this industry? Um where it was time there was Yeah, yeah, that's what I've gathered. Um, like a lot of the things about like, oh, did you ever think that have you ever wanted your talents recognized or your your efforts to be applauded the same way?

And she was like she didn't. I don't. I don't remember what her answer was. Um, but yeah, I will say it was feminist for the eighties. Is it progressive?

Yeah? Um, I'm sure that it inspired many people. I'm sure that a lot of people tuned in and were like, yeah, this is great. Maybe I do need to recognize a woman. Maybe I do need to buy my wife flowers and be like a sorry, but like yeah, I mean I'm flatlining here here, Okay, we're gonna so, Sharon, do you remember what our answer was when we did this?

Oh yeah, yeah, I said definitely. Melissa said no. Melissa jumped up to say no, and Susan was smack dab in the middle. Because the character is feminist, the show is not. Yeah, Like, that's where it challenges itself and you can't get through it.

The director and the creator Robert Butler and Michael Gleason, who, again from everything I've read, are just absolutely like beautiful, wonderful people. Were they're both passed away, but they're doing the DVD commentary and there's a line and in my head where Leasan's like, yeah, it's weird. It's like it's like this show is about identity, and it's like he just realized it. Oh yeah, Like he comes in and kind of takes over her identity and they just figured it out while they were watching a show for the DVD comment Harry's put out in twenty twelve or whatever. It was yearn to be that head empty every moment of mind.

I Yet they were so smart, They were so smart about everything else. It just never occurred to them that it was about her. I didn't. You have never been challenged, because it was more about being being clever and being funny and being smart and being oh interesting, because wouldn't it be interesting to put a woman in this situation and then have her go, hey, guess what, I'm running the show but you can't tell. Wouldn't that be interesting?

It's it was, It was so telling, and Susan, like I and Sharon also, I'm sure this is something that y'all can really speak to you. But this is where it becomes like wildly aggressively obvious, like we have to have different people in the room, and this is nothing about them other than maybe twenty years later, they were having a revelation that probably all of us on this call have had to have much sooner of like, Oh, identity is important and it matters, and it's meaningful and is impacted by the environment around me, and it shapes the way that people see me and how I can show up in spaces, and so it's like, yeah, guys, it was She's not just quirky, Like this was like a radical idea that a woman could both in television and then within the world of the show, be the center of the universe.

And it had nothing to do with who she's going to sleep with. Well, the other thing I'm thinking about, from what Susan has said, though, is it's the intention more important or the outcome. In other words, these guys maybe didn't intend to write a show a feminist show, but in my opinion, they did. Whether that was their intent or not, I don't care. I care about what I saw, what I got out of it, because there are many you know, there are examples of people with intention of doing something and it turns out not so great.

I'm not as concerned about the intention as I am about the result. And the result for me was that, as someone who was about Laura Holt's age at that time, to see this woman on television, this character on television, meant more to me than whatever the intent was behind the scenes, whatever their realization or understanding of what they were doing was behind the scenes, because perhaps at that time, all things considered, if they had realized, maybe they wouldn't have done it, maybe it wouldn't have gotten Laura hold. So I think there was some like, oh yeah, women can do things like I think I think they were would have considered themselves pro women, right, Like I work with women. Sure, you know, we put that, We put everything into the media.

We consume. Those are the carriage. Like recognize myself in that character, and I cheerleading that character because I recognize something. It's not always our whole self, it's whatever we can have. And that character of Laura Halt definitely like gave women confidence to continue to do what they were doing and to do it with more confidence for sure, and women have talked about that, and Stephanie's and Melissa.

She's like the women that I meet that are like, Laura Halt was like a huge person for me. They're these amazing women. They're these scientists and doctors and lawyers and judges, and they're like, they're so impressive, these women that come up and go, oh my god. Laura Holt, she was my everything. She was my star, right like, because I saw myself in her, and I saw more of myself and her than I saw in other other forms in the media because we're so desperate, right for foreign identity, for some tiny sliver of wait, that's me, I can be that.

And yeah, so I do think that that character really did kind of slide in there and become resident, particularly for our generation. And now again it feels like, oh that's sweet, which is good. It's good, right, Like, there are more representation, there's better representation. Trust me, Not every episode is a gem because they were writing, you know, twenty two, twenty four, twenty six episodes a season, cranking them out. I mean, but I love the fact that this character exists and that existed at the time, and it still exists today.

I'm trying to find the name of that episode that Stephanie co wrote from season co wrote an episode in season three with Robin Bernheim, who came on as a guest writer because Stephanie said, Hey, I know a writer and brought her on the show, and then she stayed on the show and was an executive story editor by season five and now is still working a day. She's executive producer and writer of the Princess Switch Movies on Netflix. Absolutely. It's episode twenty from season three. It's called Steel in the Chips and the brief description is Laura and Steele get involved in the search for the inventor of a no calorie cookie and his only batch of prototypes.

Guest stars include Gina Davis and Jean Smart and Jeane Smart. It is by far my favorite episode. If you are so inclined, I would highly recommend that you can find that episode and give it a look. It's different in a lot of ways. It's it's it's a much slapstick.

Yeah, it's good. What was the episode again, It's called Steel in the Chips, Season three, episode twenty. It's a fun episode, so yeah, for what it's worth. Not a requirement but just if you're so inclined. So anyway, right, So you guys know the Princess switch movies.

Oh yeah, yes, is Vanessa Usa Hudgens playing like triplet roles right or not triples, but like identical people tire holiday contents? Yes, well we asked her whether there is going to be a four, but you will have to listen to the podcast whether there will to us. Don't do that to us, No, Sergio, I'm so glad that these movies could be our vinn diagram. Here you go, Princess, Yes, Marvel here here, here is Princess. It brings people together and there we have to leave it.

I think we have to wrap it perfect. Oh my god, I love you guys so much. This has been so much fun. This has been so much fun. Serena, Megan, Sergio.

Good to see you all. Good to see you. I welcome back. So we've been asking for questions from our listeners about if they had any questions about Remington's deal, and some have come up and so I was like, well, I'm going to email Rob and Bernheim and find out what she has to say about some of these questions. So one of the questions we got is for season five, and it's a question that we had as well.

Can you share insight of the idea about bringing in the Tony Rosselli character or the evolution of how that character in the love triangle evolved for season five. So there are a couple of questions we got about that, and the answer for Robin Bernheim is. Bringing in Jack Scalia was born out of the need to come up with a new love interest for Laura because of the possibility that Pierce would not renew his contract after season five. The thought was to bring in someone who was very different from Remington. I distinctly remember Michael Gleeson saying that Remington was Champagne while Tony Rosselli was Beer.

Stephanie did have final approval on the casting choice and went to lunch with Jack before his deal was finalized. She liked him very much. That doesn't surprise me, I guess in terms of what some of my thoughts were in saying about his casting in the show. So that makes perfect sense. It seems like an impossible mission in some ways in retrospect.

Well, I have to agree with that. I mean, I understand the impulse amongst the producers on the show to try to figure out a way to continue the show if, as expected, Pierce were to leave. But I don't know. I think for me as a viewer, I would I just I find it hard to imagine that it would have been satisfying to me. And then what do you do with the title of the show?

For goodness sake, the success of the show seemingly was built on the chemistry of the two leads and this back and forth. It worked in Cheers, you know, when Diane left and they brought in Christie Alley, but the difference was in Cheers. By the time Shelley long left, Sam and Diane had been over for a long time, so there had been a transition from them when they first got together at the end of the first or second season, and then they broke up and they were apart for a long time. There may have still been some tension between the characters, but they weren't still a couple where Remington and Laura were. And that's one of the reasons why I think it probably wouldn't have worked, at least for me as a viewer.

Well, I think at that point, you're just trying to get your show back on the air, right, You're just like, wait, we could, we can have this back. Let's okay, what do you need? Well, of course, it's so hard to get a television show on the air. You have it on the air, you want to do everything you can to keep it. I completely understand.

I just don't know for this show to continue without one of the leads because of the relationship between the two lead characters on it. I think the challenges is that we'd spent so many years basically knowing what Laura wanted, and it wasn't beer exactly. I would have loved they continue on with the show with just her. Oh it turns out and then and then you could bring in the Jack Scholias, you can bring in whoever, and she can basically be the young murder she wrote. Yeah, that seems to me would have been, for lack of a better word, easier.

They would have needed to just to throw it out there too. It would have been so much in the step, like you'd be like heartbroken because they weren't together. Well, of course he was out there somewhere as a possibility, and he gives her his blessing and hit the clients all know and the private Investigator world knows that Remington Seal has full confidence in her while he's off on some long term assignment somewhere and anyway, the soft top of my head, but that would make more sense to me. We're trying to bring we're trying to do season six six Seal, don't mind us. But he could be more like Charlie from Charlie's Angel exactly.

And he could have again told the Private Eye world that because she's so good, the name of the agency is now steal in Heart. He's perfectly fine with that. Dealing hard I like that. So, yeah, so she's got to run second banana on the gotta start somewhere, that's true, Gotta start somewhere. That's the eighties.

And so they kept telling us exactly with the idea that someday he says, I'm not doing this anymore. It's now the whole agency go for it lower. Yeah you can, you can. But yeah, so it wasn't hard, like wait that sounds great. Wait wait, get the lesbians and Laura they get divorce.

People wouldn't like that. Now Stephanie Powers and Stephanie's embolist would be great. Well, too many stephaniees that would probably too many, Stephanie. There's always that problem with too many Stephanie. Anyway, Sadly, not everyone is um looking at things correctly.

Yeah, that's right. They should really check with us exactly. I say that all the time because there's so many things people forget to check with me, and then disaster and suit only that would check with me first. So our final question for Robin is something that's come up several times from our listeners. We wanted to know if she thought that the show would have built to revolve the character of Laura Holt differently had women been the lead creatives and writers on the show.

And here's what she said. Interesting question. And first I have to say I do believe there are men who write really well for women and women who write really well for men. A good writer is a good writer, and Michael Gleeson was one of the best and made Laura Hold one of the best female characters of the day. Second, there was a lead creative who was female, and that was Stephanie.

Her opinions and taste did shape and polished the character of Laura and her relationship with Remington. And I don't think it's fair to dismiss her input. But I do think male writers and producers of the day put a far greater value on a woman's appearance than women writers and producers would, and they accepted glamor as a given. I was thinking that it's actually very significant that the episode Stephanie and I wrote centered around finding the holy grail of dieting a cookie with no calories. There's a multidimensional story to explore about a woman's struggle to look good.

I don't know if a male writer would have seen that, but Michael did, and he gets a lot of credit for it. I think that's a great answer. Yeah, I think so too. You know, I would agree with it. I think, as we've learned, hair and what women wearing is still a factor today in ways it's not for men.

In ways is not for men, and so is age aging. Right, we accept men aging much easier than we accept women aging and women looking their age. Oh it's terrible. Have you seen the cover of Allure with Jennifer Aniston in like this really like front cover, barely wearing anything. It's the kind of thing that makes me crazy, And she's so like airbrushed and everything.

It's just like, really you had. Really, Chris Evans was named People's Sexiest Man Alive. Fine, I mean it's it's fine, But whenever you see men on the covers of these magazines, they're always fully dressed. Yeah, and then when you see women like Jennifer Anniston on the covers of these magazines, they tend not to be fully dressed. Terrible, even just comparing the you know, Vanity Fair Dust is Hollywood issue every year, and every year when it's all men on the cover, they're all in tuxedos, they've got two or three layers of clothes on, and then the next year where it's women, they're all in lingerie or something.

It's maddening. Yeah, totally, it's absolutely maddening. So I'm looking at the photos just for research purposes of Chris Evans on Sexiest Man Alive. They too. Then, Yeah, he's wearing a T shirt and jeans and then a jacket and there's nothing wrong with Oh he's a good looking guy.

That's perfectly fine. Yeah, forget to be T shirt and scruffy and she doesn't. It's like, really, that's the sexiest man alive. Exactly. I got a lot of sexier man we don't have to disk Chris Evans.

I'm not making any sort of comment about whether he is or isn't. I'm just saying, but if you go back and look at all the covers, I don't think any of those those covers feature a guy with his shirt off or you know, in bathing attire or some other form of undress. Whereas if it had been a the Sexiest woman Alive, that's exactly what you would get. Yes, all right. We want to shout out to our listeners who are reaching out to us.

Thank you so much, Doc deb fifty six on Apple Podcasts, thank you for your five star rating and review, and on YouTube. I want a special shout out to Alfonso from Madrid who wrote in to praise Stephanie Zimbalis for her work on stage and in Remington Steele. In our comments via email, we had a comment from Kate, who is loving the podcast. Hearing about Scarecrow and Missus King along with Remington Steele brings her back to her childhood. She hopes we will cover designing women and Kate Nale.

All right, it's on the list now, Kate. Thank you for listening, everybody, and please send us your feedback. With the new year, we're starting a new segment called the Eighties tv Ladies Salute, where we recognize some of the fabulous television ladies and people of the eighties who we recently lost. Our goal at Eighties tv Ladies is to celebrate and highlight the history and accomplishments of women in television, So we salute the following Eighties tv ladies in memorial Barbara Walters an icon of television and news from the seventies and eighties. She became a co host of The Today Show in nineteen seventy four, the first woman to hold such a idol on an American news program, and she continued to be a pioneer in broadcasting for women and the first female co anchor of a networked evening news show.

These were huge in the eighties. It doesn't really resonate the same way. That's what everyone tuned into to find out what was happening on a national level was the evening news, and Barbara Walters was the first female co anchor, and her interviews were really startling. You should go back and check them out. We also lost Kirsty Ali, probably best known for playing Rebecca on Cheers, as well as for the Look Who's Talking movies.

Her iconic role in Cheers I think will always live as one of the best comedic performances by an actress on TV. And Irene Kara, the songwriter, singer and actress who gave us mostly fame and everything else. But it was fame that I just first knew of her. She was Coco in this fee Yeah, but she also sang the song and won an Academy Award for that song. Yep.

A prolific writer, wrote a lot of stuff. She wrote the flash dance Yes What a Feeling. Next, we have Carol Cook. She was an actress who starred in television in the sixties. Was a protege of Lucille Ball from The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy, and guested on just about everything else in the seventies and eighties, including four episodes of Dynasty, two of murders she wrote, and five Cagney and Lacy's and I Want to Shout Out Sonja Eddie.

She started as a stage actress and transitioned to television in the nineties, working on shows like The Drew Carey Show and Murphy Brown And she did five hundred and forty three episodes of General Hospital. That's a lot of episodes. It certainly is. Next, we have Helen Slayton Hughes. She's another theater actress who became a big TV character actress in her sixties and seventies.

She's best known for playing Ethel Beavers in Parks and Recreation. And Marian Coatesworth Hay on an episode of The West Wing where they make up an award called the Francis Scott Key Key to appease her because she's coming in hot to the West Wing. That's it. I want to shout out Dorothy Tristan and Diane McBain, who worked a lot in the eighties television and television in general, and you can find out more about them on our website. And last, but certainly not least, we have a couple of honorary eighties TV ladies.

A couple of men we'd like to shout out. First, Adam Rich who was one of the stars of Eight Is Enough. And Earl Bowen, who was a huge actor from the eighties and nineties guested on just about everything in the eighties, including Murder she wrote and two two seven. He did a season of It's a Living. He was a big voice actor for animation and video games, from Kim Possible to World of Warcraft to Baldar's Gate and Ice wind Dale.

I included those because those are games I've played. Oh, Baldar's Gate, I said, I said that correctly. Yeah, yeah, I think all of them people we've mentioned made a contribution to television, not just in the eighties, but before and after, and it's good to have an opportunity to give them a little bit of a shout out and remember them this all right, next time, we're gonna have one of the top stunt women in Hollywood on our show, Sharon Awesome Debbie Evans. She was Stephanie Zimbola's stunt woman on Remington Steel and she's a stunt driver and performer on The Batman, The Fast and the Furious Movies Matrix. She's like crazy exciting, oh so exciting.

So we hope you'll join us for our next episode. And right now we are deciding what show to cover next. We do a comedy, a drama, another detective dynamic duo show. Tell us what show we should explore next at Adies tv ladies dot com. We hope Adies TV Ladies brings you joy and laughter and lots of fabulous new and old shows to watch, all of which will lead us toward being amazing ladies of the twenty first century.

So pretty unto the city