174: I Love You Disappointment

And you know how sometimes when you reflexively say something is you get off the phone that you totally didn't mean to say at all? We're getting off the phone and he's like, all right, I love you, bye. That's cute. And I told him I loved him too because I didn't know what else to do. It's true.

That's where all my love comes from. It's just getting people to reflexively say, that's how I married my wife. I do. Too late, you said it. Too late, it's out there.

Too late. This contract is binding. Got witnesses? I take that back. Too late.

See ya. We're in love. The following program is a proud member of the Palover family of podcasts. Check out all the shows over at palover.com. That's P-A-L-A-V-R dot com.

The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. It's showtime, folks. Enjoy the show. Our nuclear reactor pumping out 1 million kilowatts of power.

What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian. I'm Beau. I'm Fred. I'm Lucy.

I'm Creech. I'm Ben. All right, and we've added another member here who's sort of been, but to not confuse anyone, he's going with his alternate title. Is that how you want to bill it? Sure.

Alternate title sounds good. Last name, also appropriate. Oh, well, now you've blown it. Now they know it. Now they're all going to track you down.

What? Ah, so yes, it is time for another session of The Caffeinated Movie Geek. Cappuccino on my butt. I still drink coffee. The last fucking thing you need is another cup of coffee.

It's time for The Caffeinated Movie Geek. We are coming to you live via digital recording from Green Room Coffee and Espresso Bar, where we will get together, drink coffee, and talk movies, even the ones that thoroughly disappointed us. So once again, it's time to figure out what flavor. And Alan is here, but he's hiding over there. Have we found him yet?

I love you. Alan, what kind of coffee are we drinking? Congo. Congo. There you go.

I love that movie. You know, it's best if you actually watch it on VHS and pan and scan. We should. Floating rocks. I've been wanting to get that one in for a year now.

So it's going on the list. Maybe it's a threat at this point, but it's going on the list. We only can watch it on VHS. That's the deal. As long as you track down that many VHS copies.

I'll make sure the tracking is horrible. I actually own it on VHS. Or Laserdisc. That's even better. Not that.

I'm surprised I don't have it on Laserdisc. I have several other items. I'm pretty proud of my Super Mario Brothers on Laserdisc. Anyway. I only own Orion films on Laserdisc.

That's it. I had an ex-boyfriend that had this really impressive Laserdisc collection, which made sense at that moment in time. It was like, oh my gosh, this is new technology. You're amazing. And afterward, I thought, oh my gosh, that poor guy.

I'm literally the only girl that that got to work on. There was that one moment in time, and I was it. It's funny how media has something to do with relationships. When I was in college, whenever a couple broke up, it was all about the record collection. it all came down to vinyl and i don't think digital media has quite the same attachment nobody felt that way about cds they're cold i think it was because vinyl you know it scratches it's it's a delicate item yeah it has like an emotional attachment. It's got character yes that's why i like 35 versus digital too and Nobody really understands that.

They're like, this print's dirty. I'm like, no, it's love. It is. It's like love. It is.

Yeah. My wife, if I got her, if I went home tonight and started talking about her old boyfriend, it wouldn't be five minutes and she'd go, I know I had a Zappa record. That bastard. And the thugs, what happened to that? I mean.

Yeah, see, I never found that girl. I never did find the girl to use my laser disc line on. Although, I did at one point get a girl to come back to my house saying, do you want to see my probe droid? It worked, mind you. She was very cool.

That's like a fishing story. That's the one to get away. I'm not buying that at all. You don't think I have a probe droid? How big a dork do you think I am?

I'm not denying that you have a probe droid. I'm denying the fact that that worked on a girl is what I'm denying. No, sadly it did. Sadly it did for her. Really, more than anyone.

All right. So before we get fully into the topic, I thought, you know, this week, you know, for our sort of geek activity intro, you know, we're eventually going to be talking about, you know, the big disappointing movies. You know, we're coming into the summer season here where usually it's loaded with lots of big movies that have been built up for sometimes years and you get there and, you know, what you know, sometimes they don't quite live. Up to it. But before we got to that, this past weekend, we had probably one of the biggest movies of the year come out.

So I thought if we wanted to discuss, I think all but two have seen it. So we're not going to spoil it. But yeah, we had the Avengers come out this past week. So I thought if anyone wants to give their overall thoughts on how it went for you. All right, I'll start it off.

This is what everybody else is going to. For me, I thought it was fun. I mean, there was a lot of cool visuals. I mean, granted, the storyline was kind of a mess, but I could tell that Ralph Fiennes and Uma Thurman were having a lot of fun throughout most of the film. So for me, I at least dug it for that reason.

That and Connery just seemed to be having a hell of a lot of fun, too. Did I mention the full title, which is Marvel's The Avengers? Or The Avengers Assemble. Only in certain countries. Oh, so they remade Avengers.

Yes, it's an exact shot-for-shot remake with the Hulk involved. Oh, I like that. So the Hulk is in the big teddy bear costume. Yes. I thought that's awesome.

Well, okay, my thoughts. I was actually pretty pleased with it. Like, I think last time we were here, we were discussing that none of us were really all that excited about it. Like, I don't know, I... I just hadn't put that much stock in it.

I wasn't that worried about it. I hadn't gone to see any of the other movies in the theater, actually. I'd caught most of them. I think I was missing one out of the bunch on DVD, but I really just hadn't gotten all hyped up for all the individual movies. The only reason I was kind of interested in the Avengers was because Joss got involved, and I was like, okay, now that kind of ups the ante.

We need to see what we're dealing with, so... I think I just went in with pretty minimal expectations and I was, I was impressed with, he did it. You know, I think I was going in worried that you weren't going to be able to deliver what, I mean, it's so big a problem to deal with when you've got that many characters and that many people coming in from their own separate stories and having to be part of this other movie. That seems like a lot of problems and a lot of ego and a lot of, story structure issues, and I think he pulled it off. I think it's balanced relatively well.

It doesn't focus on one person as much as we all kind of expected it to be Iron Man 3. He steals the show a lot of the time, but it doesn't focus on him. We spend a pretty much equal amount of time with all the people. I was kind of impressed with that, that he really did sort of balance out the script and give everybody their kind of moment to shine in it. As a balancing act, it was...

Very well done, I thought. Although, I. Separate it from the first two Iron Man films because I see the Avengers as much as I liked it a lot. There were a lot of cool set pieces and really cool moments, but at the same time, it felt like pure fan service, whereas it didn't carry that same weight of story and character arc that say the iron man movies did as much for me like the story in the first iron the first iron yeah okay i'll give you that well that was. My second iron man had some issues i'm watching it going well this almost makes up for totally ruining the second iron man movie because that's all it was was set up for this movie basically so i was like it was kind of worth sitting through iron man to get to this it.

Was much more uh i feel consistent than the second arm definitely definitely. I was worried about so many aspects of it. The fact that you've only got one villain or the fact that you've got six more or less protagonists and how are we going to get to each of them? So there was no main character. I even felt for a minute that, you know, shockingly, it was Scarlett Johansson was kind of the main character for, you know, a while.

But no, I loved it. I thought the first third or so could have been a little shorter, but the second two thirds just blew me away in terms of the... action the wit you know. That was the other thing yeah i thought it held up okay time wise i mean it's not overly long and i think i don't know how you could take much out of that without sacrificing because it does kind of give everybody their little chance to build and assembling the team so you almost need a good amount of setup to be able to get all that together for the big finale so but at. The same time it's not just overall an origin story too because that's been taken care of in all these other films And that was something that's become like this annoying trend ever since.

I mean, it worked for Spider-Man, it worked for X-Men, but then because those films worked, you know, studios want to go with the formula. And so everything has to be an origin story. So by the time I got to Iron Man, I was starting to get bored of the whole, you know, let's do an origin story format. Same with Captain America. Iron Man was okay just because I think so many people didn't know anything about it.

Like he was such a lesser superhero for most people, for the mainstream people that, You almost did need to tell some form of story. But yeah, with them rebooting Spider-Man and doing it again, I was like, really? We need to know how Spider-Man becomes Spider-Man? The other thing, too, that's bothering me about this new Spider-Man coming out, it's the other trend that's become big ever since Batman Begins came out, and that is you have to make these superhero movies. darker in tone and more bleak because that was in iron man to an extent not as bad as it's been in some others especially like you watch this new spider-man trailer it's just like this really dark universe i'm like i like the raimi films because they were light they were fun and you go and you read the original spider-man comics they're filled with all these you know stupid puns and you know just sheer goofiness and i thought it worked and that's what i liked about the avengers that it went back to just having fun yeah Versus just trying to, you know, build a bunch of pathos into a superhero film.

The other thing I was going to say is it, it really like surprisingly was funny. Like not just like kind of wisecracking, like, I got more legitimate laughs out of the Avengers than probably any comedy I've seen in the last couple years. Even a lot of. Action scenes were funny. And they were made to be that way, not laughably done wrong.

Like, it was, they inserted little jokes here and there, and like, he knew, again, Joss being kind of fucking impressive with the way he sets things up. It's like he, he would insert things in there and be like, in about 10 minutes, we're going to come back to that. Or sometimes in about a half an hour, we're going to come back to that. So the one thing that actually, without giving the spoiler away. Yeah.

Um, the, I mean, so many movies nowadays have, um. The little PS, um, Especially in that series. Yeah. And out of all of them that I've seen on film, because, you know, speaking from a theater point of view, they're very infuriating after a while because you're like, get out of the damn theater so I can clean it. That's usually me hanging around keeping you from sleeping.

That's one where I don't mind watching it because... That has to be the funniest stinger I've ever seen on a film. I think I kind of hurt myself laughing. Yeah, I mean, it's just... I'm not going to give it away what it is, but I mean, you must stick all the way to the end.

It was me and like 20 people way at the back of the theater that we were just sort of giggling to ourselves in the dark. Oh, for a very extended period of time there. Because it was such a clever idea. Yeah, it was really, really smart. Again, just...

I know there's no shortage of people waiting to jump on the Joss bandwagon here. But, again, it was so much stacked against him on this one. I'm still impressed how well it came out and how well he was able to balance the dialogue. And, again, it's pretty smart dialogue. I heard somebody who was on this show for a while and we haven't seen in a while was not so thrilled with the Kevin in the Woods dialogue and was let down because it was Joss-related dialogue.

And it didn't live up to his old standards. And see, again, it goes, there's like some, ever since, I'd say, Serenity and Firefly, there's almost become like this diehard, I mean, they call themselves the browncoats, at least when it comes to Firefly, but like the hardcore Joss Whedon fans, and it's like, I like stuff, it's fun, but, you know, I just don't think it's the end-all, be-all, and I feel like J.J. Abrams is another one that has almost like this weird cult following behind his stuff, too. It's like, yeah, he does some good stuff, but, I mean, it's just, It's not as if it's going to be just a touch of gold and that is it. But Cabin in the Woods, that I thought was a hell of a lot of fun.

That's another one where it's definitely going to get completely overshadowed by Avengers now, but it's totally worth catching while it can still be caught. Another thing that surprised me about the Avengers was that in spite of it being the culmination of What is, I guess, now five movies that preceded it? Yeah. Two Iron Mans, Captain America, Thor, and Hulk. It is the culmination of those things, but in no way does it seem like, A, the final chapter, or B, anywhere near the final chapter, or conclusive in any way.

I can see us full well moving past this into additional sequels for each of the characters. Yeah. That they're each going to go do their own things and that they're. Going to live by that sort of the creed that Nick Fury set up where. You know, when we need them, we'll call on them.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's just how it's going to work. And it's something that seems sustainable where we could continue seeing great superhero movies for the next, you know, 10 years. You could keep– well– They're pushing it with Iron Man.

Well, in theory, too. I mean, that should work because, I mean, it worked for the comic books. Right. Yeah. It's like a comic book.

Yeah. Like I said, there's no end to it. I mean, they just, it's like. Because all the comic books have their own separate runs, too. That's the model they're using.

And it's Marvel Studios now. Before Marvel Studios formed with Iron Man, like, it didn't matter. Like, they could just license out the books to whoever wanted to do the movies. But now they are doing. And so now I think that's changed it.

Yeah. They seem way more invested in it because they literally are. And yeah, I think that's helped a lot because they don't feel like they're just pawning it off to somebody else. And yeah, they're, they're sort of taking a little responsibility and giving it to talented people. And that's, that's the other thing is that there's a wealth of talent and you can go and find a new director.

Uh, I was talking to someone else the other day about the mission impossible series, which has had a consistent wealth of talent associated with it. I thought that one was what I would almost liken to the original four Alien films, where you have a very prominent director attached to each one, and each one is different. It's the same idea. Even though the last two, you know. If the studio trusts the director.

Right. Well, they're kind of like the opposite of Mission Impossible. Like, it took it two movies before they really started to come into their own on Mission Impossible. But, like, Alien's the reverse. It was the opposite.

Yeah. I mean, I still have a soft spot for Alien Resurrection because there's a lot of cool ideas there. I think that. One you just wrote it. Yeah.

I think three looks great. Like, it's got story problems. But it's great. Especially if you watch the director's cast. Cuts.

The studio needed to restrict it, and that's fine. You know, studios, I have no beef with them, really, but they were worried about it, and so you cut it down, you put it out, hope it does well, and it didn't. Almost gets lost. I like Alien 3. It's just, with it, though, it's like, after Charles Dance's character dies, I'm like, okay, now it slows down a bit.

Yeah, that was a mistake, but it definitely, for me, was the last truly scary Alien film. It had some, like, I mean, some of the scenes in that, like, for me, were just as scary, if not scarier, than the first and the second. I was going to say, Resurrection didn't really have anything scary in it, but it was. It's creative. I was getting ready to say it's...

Creepy and just kind of, it's a disgusting sort of scare. Yeah, I like the casting. It's so visceral. The casting was really inspired. Oh, yeah.

I thought Ron Perlman, I can't remember the French actor who was in Amelie. Dominique Pignon. Yeah, him. And the guy with the raspy voice who was the villain in The Crow. He's like, eh, you know.

I don't know his name. Yeah, he's awesome. He is awesome. You've also got it coming straight out of the sort of Jeunet subterranean nightmares. Yeah, yeah.

Don't protest on it. She said he lost children. I mean, it definitely has that look. And Dan Hedaya is the general beginning I love, too. Oh, yeah.

He's a great character. They can put him in every movie. Oh, no, sure. Wayne's World. I mean, I was cracking up the first time I saw it.

He's doing that whole breath thing. And it won't work. And it won't work. And he just keeps getting pissed off, and he keeps breathing heavier and heavier into it until it finally recognizes him. And I like the fact that, you know, in this...

That's the thing I like about movies to where they're set in the future to where stuff doesn't always necessarily work. That's what I always liked about the original Star Wars trilogy that was lost in the prequels. Yeah. Little Millennium Falcon, it was kind of a piece of shit because it didn't run half the time. He's a guy fixing up his car.

Exactly. It's a junker, but sometimes he gets it to run really good. That was always the appeal of Han anyway. He was, you know, like when you were a kid, he was like that older dude who had the cool car that you knew on your street. You know, all these other futuristic movies where they try to make everything squeaky clean.

It's like, The future's still going to have the same problems you have nowadays. That is, stuff does not always work. In fact, the newer it is, usually the less reliable it is. Probably. The more complicated we make it, the more it breaks.

I'm sure that will continue into the next couple of thousand years. So, yeah. The Avengers, the only other thing I was going to say, as far as the villains, I mean, our main villain's pretty good. It's funny how that other stuff, I'm like, I could care less about that. They're so unimportant, really, by the end.

You just needed a thing. You needed some sort of foe for them to take on. By the end, I'm just like, eh, whatever. I don't care. And then the more I sat there, this was the funniest thing to me.

I don't know that anyone else will agree. It will probably piss people off. But I was like, you know, the plot of this movie overall, minus the superheroes, but the basic plot, Kind of like Howard the Duck. I'm just saying. I actually thought Masters of the Universe.

Actually, the very. Beginning when he was talking to him, I was like, it does kind of feel... Yeah, and then the wormhole into outer space and aliens waiting to come through. Yeah, I was just like. Although I did miss the part in the movie where, you know, there's a universe where everyone was a duck and there's a series of commercials.

They had that at the very beginning. You didn't see that part? Okay. Well, again, it's a Marvel property. I mean, I guess if you're going to borrow from something, you know.

God, Howard, I remember that was something I had fond memories of as a kid, and it came out on DVD. I was like, awesome, and I watched it, and. I was like, what? Yeah. Did George Lucas direct that?

No. He's executive producer. So we can't hold that against him as much. No. Can we please cut back to Jeffrey Jones?

Okay, it's watchful now. Oh, no, it's away again. So, yeah, I think we can leave it at that for if we need to revisit and do a full-on Avengers somewhere down the line. But I don't think it'll happen anytime soon, so I thought we'd at least throw out the response since it hit this past week. But I think we can safely assume that it's going to be its own separate franchise.

I think unless something goes horribly wrong within the studio system, yeah, I can't imagine them. Not wanting to, two years out or so, try to follow. Up with something else. And hopefully in the next one they'll be able to work in a Diana Rigg cameo. Because I really think that you should pay homage to the original series.

If you're going to do Avengers films. Here on out. Okay. Fuck that. Bring back Emma Thurman and Ray Fiennes.

That's all. Exactly. See, I'm glad somebody's here with me on this. I was really tempted to see if we could just completely undermine you before we even started this. All of us just talk about the 98 Avengers.

I'm fine with that. I don't remember enough. Jerome Chelsick or something? I can't remember. I was actually looking it up recently.

Chelsick? That screenwriter, that's the only screenplay he's ever written in his life. He's had no work before, and he's had no work since. I was going to jump in, but I haven't actually seen it. I do know some of the names attached to it.

I just couldn't... I remember vividly seeing the original The Avengers at Showcase Louisville in one of the theaters to where the ceiling had started to collapse in. So it's like dripping. And I was catching the flu at the time. So I was like feverish.

And I was in this dank theater by myself. And so it was almost like some strange fever dream. I kind of doubt that I even saw the film. But I know I did. I think I saw a film about you seeing the.

Film. That's ringing a bell for me. That sounds familiar. Yeah. It's a strange indie movie.

Yeah. There's a man. He's in trouble. He's in a theater. She's feeling a little under the weather.

All right. So with that, I think we should take a break and come back with our full-on discussion. Our world's about to break. Forbidden and attacked. Lost when we wake.

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Don't wait for me. And Sean Connery. Time to die. And this is merely the beginning. Gee.

The Avengers. I'm glad to hear they're together at last. Coming May 26th and 27th, Wonderfest. In this, their 22nd year, Wonderfest is still the annual expo for model and toy collectors, with a huge display and competition for plastic kits and garage kits. This year, in addition to all the events, they are also welcoming actress Joanna Cassidy from Blade Runner and Who Framed Roger Rabbit, as well as Bill Moseley, Julie Adams from Creature in the Black Lagoon, and designer and illustrator Eric Chu, who redesigned the Cylons, Raiders, Vipers, and much of the universe for Battlestar Galactica.

Plus lots of other guests and activities. So go to wonderfest.com and check it out yourself. Dear Mr. Vernon, we accept the fact that we have to sacrifice a few hours a week to podcast about whatever you find important, but we think you're crazy asking us to write an essay telling you who we think we are. You see us as you want to see us, in the simplest terms and the most convenient definitions.

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Answered in the movies. Now, on with the show. Our unsuitable friend gets the message on an ill wind All your friends and your foes would rather die than have. To touch you. To say the least I'm truly disappointed.

All right, we are back, and it is time for the grind. We're going to do the grind, y'all. Got you where I want you. Once again in this segment, we discuss a specific topic or question related to movies. We'd like them to come from you, but once again, you're slacking.

If you ever know of any you'd like to suggest, you can email them to geeks at moviemeltdown.com. But since you were slacking once again... This week's topic comes from Bo, and as I said earlier, we're heading into the summer season. You've got these big movies coming out, and what happens when they don't live up to the hype? What happens when you're sitting in the seats in the theater and you're just kind of disappointed?

So we're going to discuss disappointments. You. Through this out there, did you have a specific jumping off point, Beau, you wanted to go with? No, but, I mean, as soon as the topic comes to mind, suddenly I'm like, oh, yeah, I do remember suggesting this. It was like 2.30 in the morning.

Yeah, it was the middle. Of the night and you were jogging. But, no, I'm one where I've only walked out of one film. that I can ever recall. The Bread My Sweet is the name of it. But I've come very, very close to walking out of a few films.

And one that I remember really liking the original and considered several times walking out on the sequel was Men in Black 2. That's a good choice. It comes to mind because the third one is coming out. And I like Barry Sonnefeld a lot. But I remember sitting there and I was like, God, this is so damn painful.

And all I thought about looking at Tommy Lee Jones, I'm like, What is wrong with him? He looks bored as shit in this movie. He looks more bored than I am right now. He was. And it just...

I can't even remember the plot, but I remember it was just the most insipid storyline. I just remember being frightened by Laura Flynn Boyle and her leather outfit. I just. She's creepy now. I'm sorry.

I mean, it's just so bad. I can't even remember what I would want to vent about because I'd have to go back and re-watch it. I'm not going to do that. I don't even want to re-watch the trailer, but I remember it was just... very vividly like being excited about it and I was just like god this is not working at all. It really was bad like at least Wild Wild West just had that it was fun because it was so dumb like Men in Black 2 it didn't even like it was just trying to be like yeah it was just sad because it was trying to be a good movie.

And you remember the first one and it was fun it was trying. To make Johnny Knoxville a legitimate actor and it was trying to do a bunch of things and it just failed. And It's like being at prom and suddenly seeing the chaperones start dancing. It's like, no. I know you thought that would be funny and you'd look cool, but no.

No. I hope that Insipid won't describe the third one. From what I can tell about the plot, which actually is absolutely nothing, that's what I have hope in, because I've seen trailers, like three or four of them, and have no idea what happens in the third movie. So I'm hoping that that's a good sign. Yeah, I don't think I've seen much of it at this point.

There's time travel and Josh Brolin. I just know the Josh Brolin thing, but I don't know any of the story other than that. He has to go back in time. Maybe they meet the aliens for the first time. I don't know.

I don't know. I've done a lot of guesswork trying to figure it out. You saying not watching trailers reminded me of one of my biggest summer disappointments. I hadn't even thought of this until now and I'm getting pissed off again because I made great efforts. Every time a commercial would come on on television, I would change the channel so I didn't see it.

Any time I was in the theater checking temperature or whatever on a film, if it came on the screen, I would leave. And that was King with a Crystal Skull. I never watched a trailer. I never looked at a press photo. I never read a synopsis.

I knew nothing about it going in. Because I didn't want to get my hopes up. And I saw it. And I remember sitting there. I was like, okay, okay.

Getting stoked. And then just like the CG gopher comes up. I was like, okay, okay. Okay, no, no, no, no, no. Get past that.

Get past that. Get past that. It's just something for the kids to laugh. And just every time I would kind of get my hopes up, then something would dash it. Get my hopes up and dash it.

And I was watching it with two other employees. And it was just the three of us doing a text screening a couple nights beforehand. And we were all excited. And as soon as the lights came up, one of my two friends just stood up. flipped off the screen, just said, fuck, and walked out. And we thought that we were going to go to the bar and like, you know, he went home.

He actually just left the theater, went home without saying anything else to us. Ever. We still haven't spoken. And then just even when I like tried to call to him, he's like, no, the goddamn four waterfalls and wedding. I'm not talking about this shit.

Ending with a wedding. No, no. And then say he would just hang up. It's like it took a week to even talk to him. Usually a film I can walk off.

It's live theater that will ruin your night. I mean, you'll try to go out, go to dinner, but then you'll wind up being bitchy the whole rest of the night. You don't even have the good humor to make fun of it. You have to go home and just stew for a while. I don't know.

No, I guess there are films that, like, yeah, really piss you off that much. It's, yeah, I don't know. Live theater, any time there's a college production of a Shakespearean play, you know that's disaster. Yeah. Oh, God, how many times have I seen Midsummer Night's Dream?

47. And that Sarch play, No Exit, I don't know if I've really seen it a dozen times or if it just feels like it. I think that's the point, actually. Yeah. Well, it's not a point I needed made over again.

But I don't know. It's a great topic, but then the more I think about it, the more I think, That's all I ever talk about in movies, really, is disappointment, like going back to the earliest memories of film. As a kid, I was always disappointed in Huck Finn movies. One of the greatest disappointments of my life was seeing half of a faithful adaptation of Frankenstein, and then the next week a football game was on, and I couldn't watch the rest of it. I was like, fuck.

And I was just ready to murder my family. I was at that point where I was thinking about weaponry. Thanks very much. Talking of walking out on movies, I don't think I've done it but once. That one time wasn't...

I don't even know if it really counts. I can be particularly enthusiastic about a lot of different stuff. So I only have a couple in the disappointment category. But one that I walked out on Louisville Gore Club was doing a double feature screening at Seidenfaden's of Hobo with a Shotgun and Rubber. Now, Hobo was amazing.

Oh, fuck Rubber. But fuck Rubber. See, really, I've heard a lot of fun. I've heard a lot of good things about Rubber. I could not still, like, I really, like, I never, this was the first time I realized this.

Thousands upon thousands of film screenings. I had never walked out of a film. And I knew this when I was watching Rubber. And I knew that walking out would change everything. There's no turning back now.

I looked at the guy that I came with. We were, you know, this was the first time that either film was going to be screened in Louisville. And so. We were just like, we could not take anymore. We had to leave.

Uh, the beer was not doing it. We just had to get out of there. It was not worth it. We didn't understand what was going on. Uh, no, I mean, there've been folks who have come into the video store and they like it and that's fine.

And I don't begrudge anyone their taste, but, um, but dear God, I just couldn't deal with that. I looked so cool. See, I found it a lot of fun. It kind of reminded me of like some of the, um, later Louis Brunel stuff. Like, um, the discrete charm of the bourgeoisie and stuff like that to where it's, except instead of making fun of the rich, it's making fun of Hollywood.

No, it's making fun of Hollywood and audiences is the way I took it. And I just found it fun. I mean, I'm actually curious to see, um, he's got a new film that's made, um, screened at Sundance called wrong. And, um, I mean, I had a few friends who saw it who actually were fans of Rubber, and they said it was pretty much the same way, and they really dug it. So I guess I would say if you didn't like Rubber, you probably wouldn't like Wrong.

I have no intention of seeing it. But, you know, if I can be convinced, I'll give it a chance. We walked out on a movie in California once, but it was just like an audience full of stupid college kids. Yes, you walked out on the audience. Yeah, although the movie, I mean, you would have walked out.

It was the story of O. And it's just like, we're not going to sit here through this nonsense. But, yeah, I don't remember any others that I've ever walked out on. I just tend to go blank after a while. You said about the Twilight movies, you didn't want to be one of those people that makes fun of them without seeing them.

That's my thinking. Well, I saw them, but I think I've got to turn in my card because I don't even remember now. Yeah. I have no fucking idea what happened in those movies. You can then block out as much as need be.

I saw the second one, I think. I was hanging out with a friend. You were lost then. You didn't get the important storyline that was built in that first one. I saw them.

I just don't know anymore. You were so awestricken by Taylor Lautner's abs, you just completely forgot. No, that was me. The mullet thing he was rocking halfway through. I do remember things people have said about it.

That's all I have to hang on to. Well, that's like half of the running series of this show. I remember somebody explaining to me how the werewolves got their clothes back. I think we actually wore a fanny pack in the book. Oh, is this true?

Yeah. They actually wear little fanny packs with clothes in them. And that's how that gets. I know. I know.

When they turn into a werewolf. Sure. It's in the book. It's what I've been told. Yes.

That's so awesome. Yeah. You need to have friends who have read the books because that was my situation, too, was I was like. I don't get it. I don't get what's going on, like logistically.

And then the friend that I was with was like, oh. Oh, oh. In the book, this is what... And I was like, oh! Oh!

Yeah, that's what I was about to say, The Hunger Games. Timur Lotnir says something like, I literally can't tell you, and it's the only thing I remember from the movie. I literally can't tell you. And it's like he's bound by werewolf law. Yeah.

He is. You don't want to piss off the werewolf lawyers, man. The book logic is the thing that pisses me off, because... I sense a Warren Zevon. When it came to the first three Harry Potter films, I really dug them.

I mean, I thought they were getting, you know, exponentially better with each one by the time you got to Prisoner of Azkaban I'm like this is a fucking great series and then next thing you know Goblet was it the Goblet of Fire was the next one I'm sitting there and that was one I was like Jesus what the hell is going. On I was the right age for that and I hated it. And I was seeing it with my mom and my brother who both read them and then after it was over I was like boring as hell. They're like, well, no, it was only like the first episode. You have to read the book.

Like, no, I hate that phrase. Do not tell me I have to read the book. That means you made the movie wrong. If you have to follow instructions to get the movie. It's like a sleeping bag that comes with instructions.

It ought to work without information. I can't get inside this thing. The X-Files movie that came out in 98, I remember people were like, Well, no, you had to see all the episodes leading up to the movie this season. I'm like, no. No, no, no.

It has to be freestanding. I maintain the only way to wind up the X-Files with a movie would be porn. I told you that's out there. The Triple X-Files is waiting for you. Question, then.

Went too far. Does the Avengers hold up to the same standards? Like you have to read. Do you have to have seen the four or five films? I mean, I've seen episodes.

Of the series, but I got kind of a feel for the movie by the time it came out. I feel like, yeah. Because, I mean, you know, the whole Steed and Emma Peel thing. Oh, wait. Am I still going?

I'm sorry. I don't think so, actually. I mean, because I missed one of them at least. I was losing tracks midway in. No, actually two.

I didn't see the Hulk movie and I didn't see Thor. Same here. Yeah. And I went in and even then I'm thinking if I hadn't seen Iron Man 2, again, there was no big loss. I mean, really, I think if you're just familiar enough.

With the characters. I was a Marvel fan growing up, so it didn't throw me off. I don't know how objective viewers. I had enough comic book geeky knowledge from my years, too, that I think I would have been fine. But if you were a total person off the street, doesn't know anything about comics, period. maybe you'd need a little backstory but again i think he fleshes it out pretty good that you're you're kind of covered even if you just go in and like oh these are heroes you know it's they're kind of you know archetypes anyway we we should get it really he's a bad guy these are good guys you know i don't think you should be that lost in that.

But yeah the whole um having to see the stuff like either before or after films or some other supplement, it actually reminds me of a bar joke, if I may be permitted. And I know this is the point where you're going to be like, oh, remember when we were talking about technology not working? You started hooking the mic. Let me just write down what time it is so I know when to take this out. All right, thank you.

But anyway, a man walks into a bar, orders a beer. The bartender says, sure, walks over to the corner, and the guy watches him as he unzips his pants and pees into the glass. Walks over, sits it on the counter. Guy looks at it, and he's like, huh. That's a great joke i love that joke man.

Picks it up takes a sip and he's like my god he did just piss in this glass but then he thinks well i paid for it so i might as well drink it and so he drinks it and then he leaves a couple years later he's back in the same into town goes in he's like bartender still working here i can't believe he's still working here and so he orders a beer to see what's going to happen knowing what happened last time the bartender walks over to the corner and sure enough he pisses in the glass again right in front of the guy and hands it to him and the guy looks at it and he tastes it again he's like son of a bitch he did it again but he's like but i paid for it i was looking so much forward to a beer and just goes ahead and drinks it anyway and There is no end to this joke.

The punchline is the bartender is George Lucas. And getting into that, going between Clone Wars and Episode 3, that was the whole thing. It starts off in this battle. I'm like, what the hell is going on? And then I was with.

Some friends who were like, you have to have seen all the Clone Wars episodes between the second one and the third one. I was like, no. No, it just didn't make sense from the get-go. You don't have to, again, because that's like comparing it to Empire and Jedi. There's a jump there, and things happened in between all that time, and you just have to play catch-up, and there was no series to bring you up to speed.

But, I mean, you got enough exposition in Return of the Jedi to where you. Weren't thrown off. Again, that's better done, and Jedi's not the great movie of the series, but it's still better done than what they did in the other ones. Exactly, and the same goes for Empire Strikes Back. I mean, there has. there have been things happening where you start off on a completely different planet.

That one more than any. It does seem like there's an entire other movie missing between four and five, really, that could have been going on. But when you start out in this battle sequence, it's just, at that point, sheer confusion. I'm like, what the hell is going on? And it's just, I just can't stand that, to where people are like, you had to watch this series, you had to read this book, some sort of supplement to where this makes sense.

The only time where I can think a supplement actually not only gave more information that wasn't necessary, but made something more effective was Blair Witch Project, because you had that documentary that came out prior to it. That was just genius marketing. I know, and it was, but I mean, it totally. And. The interaction with the website.

Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of that, I finally got around to seeing The Hunger Games, and I know most people, before they saw it, it's like, oh, this is the new teenager book, you know, after Twilight, and they come out and they go... Actually, there was more to it than I thought. That was my thoughts on it. But see, what I heard was, actually, there was more to it.

That's what I went in hearing. I went in and saw it, and I'm like, what the fuck am I supposed to make of this? What the fuck is this? This is the worst fucking camera work I've seen in any fucking movie ever. And Blair Witch Project and a lot of other movies, I've heard people say, oh, the camera work, it makes me, it's so jiggly.

Yeah. Yeah, I notice it. No, it levels here and there. When I saw that, I'm like, Where is that cameraman? Because I'm going to grab him by the hair and smash his head.

Because this is fucking annoying. That's why that director is not coming back for the second one. That's crazy. It's crazy bullshit. The whole movie is bullshit.

I mean, come on. I love how he's just like a huge left turn. Like, I thought you were going to be like, I thought it wasn't bad. But you're just like, fuck it. I love that.

Well, I mean, there are some things I can say for it. Like the lead character. That's a good way to do. Well, she's. From Kentucky, and she's not super pretty or anything.

She's interesting, and that's a good thing to do in a movie compared to, say, Twilight. Yes, a thousand times better than Twilight. Still, I don't believe this whole class of society that's okay with this. I don't believe those people. If you had one of those people in a movie, you'd have a problem.

Class of them. Well, I haven't seen it or read the books, but I know that Battle Royale is similar and the movie predates the book series. Like, how close or far off is. Well, there's so many films that, I mean, Series 7, I mean, there's so many films, Running Man, I mean, that's been made a. Million times in a million ways.

Well, I mean, okay. Yeah, I was going to say Running Man did it. I think people are, you know, linking to Battle Royale more so because it's, you know, it's children and, you know, the whole game show thing and they're set in, like, I don't know, it's not a jungle in Battle Royale, is it? It's like an island? It's an island.

It's like an island jungle or something. Okay, well then you're right. I mean, it's been told. Well, I mean, that doesn't mean that it's being told, you know, it could be told in a completely different way, is what it sounds like it is. I mean, I haven't seen Hunger Games yet.

The books are great. I've read the books. The books are, I mean, the second one especially. You're not going to tell me I have to read the book to understand that. No, you do.

You absolutely do. I haven't seen the movie yet. Well, here's the thing, because I had heard so many good things about the books, and I'm not one to read young adult literature or whatever. Damn. I like the first half of that statement.

I'm not one to read YA lit. But I went into it thinking, well, a lot of people that I respect enjoy this and get something from it. So, it's obviously going to be smarter than I expect it to be. I walked out and was, I walked out and I saw it with a friend who loves it, was super invested, couldn't wait. We saw it opening night or whatever.

Um, I walked out and I said, wow, that writer must be incredible. She must write so well because that movie sucked. And I don't know what you could possibly get out. Of this storyline. And she sat me down and she was like, okay, well, what are your issues and like issue by issue I was like okay why this and she explained and her explanations were super valid and it sounds like sort of the depth of the books I mean everything means something and the movie was meaningless there was no depth or complexity to it whatsoever it was just these kids running around and.

And they weren't even really doing that. Like, four or five of them form an alliance? Fuck no! No, they don't! Are you fucking kidding me?

But then you're supposed to wait and backstab each other later. You're pretending like you're forming an alliance. I think it was just a poor adaptation. I mean, that's the responsibility of the screenwriters, to create something that maintains the meaning and integrity of the original text and still does it within two hours. And that's why adapting is hard.

Yeah. Well, I've heard that the writer can write. I've heard that from a lot of people. But the movie, I mean, I don't believe the world. I don't believe the relationships of the people in it.

I thought the world building part was kind of cool. I like that first half. And I think by the time you get to the battle, it falls apart because they almost don't do what needs to be done. The stuff that, and again, I don't like to compare it to Battle Royale, but Battle Royale just does it. so mean and hardcore and it's like they sort of like pg-13 kids club you know the whole thing is just way too easy by the time they get to the end they don't really hit home the point that needs to be made if you're like the entire theme of this is you know are you gonna have you know have what it takes to kill your best friend are you gonna be you know pay the ultimate price to win this contest yeah they. Don't investigate what they're investigating yeah they that's what i think the problem was is.

The end part there making a game of death yeah if you don't if you're gonna just you know. If you're just gonna evade it and turn it into like a Yeah, the whole thing is evasive. See, that actually reminds me of something else that people say that pisses me off. They're like, well, this is the first in the series. So when they're done with it, it's like, no, stop that.

So I've got to sit through three of these for the first one. This isn't a movie. This is just like filler. Oh, wow. I don't know.

And I don't understand how it comments on anything either. I mean, it's comments on reality TV. How? How? And from what basis, from what authority does it have?

So is that really where reality TV is headed? Yeah, Lucy brought up Series 7 earlier, and that predates Hunger Games by, what, 11 years? And that does it so much more effectively, and it was low budget. It was fun. I mean, it had its issues, too, because, you know, the fourth act was a little meh.

But it was a fun film. I don't know if anybody else saw it or not. It's set, it's actually modern day to where they just do this lottery. to where if your social security number is pulled out, then basically you've got to kill everyone else in the running. And how you choose to do it is totally up to you. However long it takes you to do it is totally up to you.

If you don't want to participate, fine, then somebody's going to come and kill you. My method of killing people is I tell them the wrong thing to do if they're attacked by a bear, and I wait. Strategy. Yeah. They won't even remember it was me.

They won't even remember it was me. You know, it'll completely clean. Are you responsible for grizzly man then? Yeah. I was hiking in the Tetons.

I remember seeing these signs up that was like, you know, warning, there's been a recent bear attack. If you were hiking alone, please make noise. Recommended singing. I was like, One, two, do you have requests? That is just like, that's got to be some prank by a local forum.

That wasn't real, there's a camera in a tree somewhere. There's a state trooper just like, behind a tree, just giggling. So many people know so many Bad Journey songs. Thankfully they did Captain Antonio. And you don't know, there's like some subversive CD out there that's traded amongst forest rangers to where they just record people singing in the woods to not be killed by it.

There's a website now. They've upgraded. But you get to the end of the Hunger Games, and apparently the way these kids change their world. Spoiler tag. Is by being emo.

It's basically actions you can do on MySpace. It's you pretend you're in love and suicidal. That's what kids... That's the strategy. That sounds like a plan to me.

I mean, it's all about that, you know, Twilight and Hunger Games. The draw is just that angst about, you know, like, teens killing other teens or, like, being in love with werewolves. Like, you can see how that would appeal. You know how that goes. It's too high school, you know what I mean?

It's silly, but that's all it is. Well, I don't mind the silliness. I don't know. Werewolves, Games of Death, it's been done before. That's not the point.

It would have been a lot more fun if. The camera work wasn't so fucked up. I mean, how bad do you have to be? It's horrible. I'm amazed when big-budget movies are just kind of broken like that.

Just something like technical, just as simple as camera work, they just fail on that one. It's really that bad. That really happens these days. For a movie as successful as 100 Games to just have that kind of shoddy camera work, that's kind of amazing. It's equivalent, it's not like having somebody sitting behind you kicking your seat through the whole movie.

That's awful. It's just persistently annoying. Speaking of walkouts, I prefer walkouts. Persistently annoying, yeah. If I can't even follow what's going on because of this stupid camera guy, then fuck it.

It's hard to miss what's going on. I'll give it that. Isn't it shaking camera work without having seen it? It's just swinging around. See, that is actually something that I will say it's Ridley Scott's fault primarily because he did that so much in Gladiator.

And everyone suddenly realized all these directors. Like Blame It. And Black Hawk Down. Yeah, and Black Hawk Down too. It's like you don't have to have a full set.

You can just cheat and jerk the camera around during action scenes. You know, versus Lord of the Rings where they have these huge, beautifully choreographed fights. It's like, no, just jerk the camera around and it's like you're in battle. He even worked it into Hannibal, actually. Yeah, and it's just, that's become like this trend now to where a lot of directors, it's just this complete way of cheating what you're trying to film.

Yeah. Because you disorient the audience and I hate that. It drives me crazy. It's the one thing I'm bummed out about. Oh, sorry.

Go ahead. Oh, no, go ahead. But, yeah, like Christopher Nolan in the Batman films, I feel like, in The Dark Knight, as much as I love that movie, he did kind of have a couple scenes where... He did the shaky cam, like the scene with the Joker in the tower. I couldn't tell what was going on.

It did not need to be there. It was totally unnecessary. There was at least some fluidity, though, when it was the attack to try to get the district attorney during that whole scene, the car chase. At least that was more static than some other scenes in the film. Yeah, but see, I don't mind it in general.

As a general rule, I do think in the Batman one, I remember you can't really see the action sequences. And that was sort of, you know, that's disappointing, that's not good, it could be better. And there are other movies that use it, and it's like, yeah, it's a choice, and you can question it, but in The Hunger Games, it's just horrible. I think that some of it, though, and this might just be me trying to give it credit, I have no idea why, some of it might have been motivated by a desire to keep the rating accessible to kids, because it's such a hyper-violent premise, and I feel like a lot of the camera work was to just sort of escape the violence and have it come at you sort of in. Yeah, but they did it when people are just sitting around talking.

Why do that? Why are you doing this? That's the worst, when it's just someone sitting down. It's just people having a conversation, and it's jumping around for no reason. There's no movie that does that, where it just zooms in, and there's just like...

Like, in and out for no reason. I can't remember. What theater was this? Maybe they just didn't know how to work the project. Yeah.

I was so bad about that. You're right. It might have been bad. What was this? Oh, gosh.

I've already forgotten what it was called. It had Jason Schwartzman in it, and it was about crystal meth. And the whole idea was to sort. Of replicate that feeling. Mine was fun because it was trying to go ahead.

Right. I mean, that was the point, but it really was maddening. I mean, by the end of it, you were, like, shaking. You were so disoriented. Yeah.

I have no issue with shaky cam per se. It's just when it's not used effectively, it's not used correctly. Like I actually found watching taken in theaters completely impossible. Um, like I just couldn't deal with it. Uh, and you know, I've heard, I've got friends at the store, I've got coworkers who were like, Oh, that's one of my favorite action movies of the last so many years.

And, and it's just like the Bourne. Films do it too the Bourne films handle it better but like with Taken you know it's an entertaining movie but at the same time it feels kind of broken like when a movie is just like that it's like I can't even see like you're not even letting me you know take in the story you're presenting to me like this is terrible. I'm fine with that though like I'm fine with that primarily because well look at for example I know that this isn't universally loved but I'm a fan of like Spielberg's War of the Worlds right he uses shaky cam throughout the film. It's a technique that is disorienting and we don't get to see everything, but the point is that we don't get to see everything.

That's a choice for creating a world. It's also, in that instance, it becomes particularly evocative of the home videos made after 9-11 or during 9-11 where you've got people with their video cameras running through the streets. I think that paired with something like Blair Witch, paired with You know, other found footage films. You really get like this feel for, you know, maybe like maybe we're in this new age of digital filmmaking where that is a a a standard of sorts um now it can be done very poorly as obviously it was for you at least with the games i haven't seen it yet um but. Oh you'll you'll know.

It's not subtle well taken i did not agree with me for the very reason that you're describing about hunger games but it's like I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing to be missing out on the action because the action itself can be disorienting if we were in it. And the camera can oftentimes place us in that set. Especially when you mention some of those shaky cam films to where you're purposely... Leaving the audience out to build intrigue, you know, like Cloverfield or even more effective than that, REC. I mean, both of those do it very well.

But again, if it's set up to be you're watching found footage, the character you're running around with is holding the real camera in this scene. fictional story as opposed to a studio like the hunger games when it's just like you know who's the fuck head in this room. Holding this camera yeah that's different it's it introduces a non-existent character into the. Movie reality show if what we're watching is a reality show yep then there is someone with a camera inside the reality of that film even if that's not a physical person and in the books it's something of a you know more like it's a probe thing, like from the Star Wars movies. No, it's like early on before she's even in a reality show. But that's sort of part of the same digital reality that we get when we watch Survivor.

We get them running through their mazes and tricking each other at night. Like, we get the same shaky cam. So, I could not seen it, you know, I'm sure that it's as awful as you're describing it, but I could also see a justification for it. Yeah, in another movie, sure. It's never really bothered me.

I mean. I loved Blair Witch. I don't mind saying it. I loved Blair Witch. I think that also speaks to just how terrible the film was that you start dwelling on that.

Well, yeah. You pull out of the story. Yeah, I mean, and I don't know. I'm not that, I'm not a snob about it. I was just trying to have fun.

Going back to actually Summer Disappointments and what you were saying earlier, War of the Worlds, I would say it was like a fun half of a movie, but like, About two-thirds in. Once they got to the farmhouse and everything after that, I was like, oh, something happened. And then just logic went out the window, too. You know, the sun runs off into this giant fireball, and then he just shows up at the end. And I always love it because Tom Cruise's character, he looks at him like, what?

And he's just like, eh, it's like. That's a bit how the book was, too. I mean, all people remember is the initial attack, the detailed description of the aliens, and what happens in between. It's like, oh, it's some rotting carrot. And then at the end.

And then at the end, the virus or the germs kind of like, oh, remember the germs? Oh, yeah, germs. In the very beginning where you see the monsters, but what happens in between, we don't know what. Explosions. Not a lot, yeah.

With the book and with the broadcast, the main character is the invasion. So the various perspectives we get are not– they don't have narratives. And that's sort of the point is that they are– well, they exist in the same sort of reality as these found footage films where you just follow someone through this experience and that's. What you get. But at the same time, there needs to be at least enough exposition.

I mean there could have been a little bit more like just in passing, like in the original War of the Worlds broadcast. Orson Welles' character happens to talk to someone who's run away from the army, and you get more of a feel as to what's going on from the army's point of view. And they have that a little bit in the film, but not that much to where you can understand what's going on. It's still a movie. We still need to demand some sort of.

Exactly. I mean, there at least needs to be just... It doesn't have to be a tremendous amount, because I like it when films do leave you in the dark and leave stuff that is ambiguous, but that film is not set up to be ambiguous like that. So, I mean, it's got a very clear-cut ending as to what has happened, but... As for the process, getting to that clear-cut ending, that is what's questionable, and that's what I had issues with.

That and just, you know, by the time you got to the basement, you know, it was Spielberg's bag of tricks to where it's like it's the velociraptors in the kitchen all over again with this probe moving around and them hiding from it, even the mirror and all this stuff. And, you know, I was like, God, get out of the basement. You're killing the movie. Get out of the basement. And just another thing that I think that, like going back to kind of the– shaky cam which i don't remember so much of it in more of the worlds i feel like if it was using when it was using more of the worlds it was probably it was well done because i didn't stick out for me in that film but with like the hunger games and i have seen clips of that like you know that's the cheap thing where someone shoots an arrow and the camera goes whizzing past the person who gets shot you don't see them get shot and it just comes back and oh they have an arrow in them and it's you know it doesn't really follow the action very well like to me that kind of I mean, it diminishes the sense of setting, of location in a film, so you don't get as immersed.

You're just kind of in these detached... You don't know where you are, you just know that stuff is happening. So it kind of diminishes that sense of immersion, and also I just think it kind of. I. Don't know, it.

And that sort of technique for violence, I don't mind if it's something that's low-budget. If they don't have the budget to actually effectively make an arrow go into someone where it looks believable. But, you know, the Hunger Games, you can tell where it goes. In the Hunger Games, they're just trying to keep her preserved from being a bad person. And I think, actually, I mean, I think they do that too much.

Again, that's my problem. You don't see her actively do anything. The whole time she's, like, running away from it. She never is faced with that. Yeah.

Decision which to me is the whole point of the story and then yeah that was my. Problem with it somehow she's magically her best friend yeah well i don't know. Again that was that scene. Where she looks up at the sky and goes no and what. Am i supposed to make of this again that's just badly adapted because the person who i saw it with read the book and like it's It's like two or three chapters of hanging out with that little girl.

And here it's like, we meet her, the next scene, it's over. And we're supposed to have this big bond and we're supposed to have a big reaction to what happens. You don't because you just met her. It's got a lot of issues. And that scene with the flowers that seems so silly when that whole thing is just like, oh my god, this is terrible.

But apparently the reason for that was because I guess in the book there's this whole deal about how they don't record everything. They just sort of record the things that they try to sort of whitewash everything. And so she knew that if she put the flowers on her, then they would have to show the dead body on TV. And that's an interesting moment that totally doesn't exist in the movie, that only exists in the book. And apparently there's a million of those.

It's just a bad adaptation. Yeah, I'm not attacking the book or anything. I don't know about the book. I can't even attack Twilight anymore because I don't remember. It might be fucking genius.

I don't know if I'll attack it, but I will ask a lot of questions. You know, really, most of my disappointments are like really pretty good movies. They just weren't what I was hoping they were. Yeah. And the other ones that, you know, I didn't expect much from.

Or there's that whole class of movies that people think you, based on their understanding of you, you are going to love this movie. I didn't like it so much, but you will love it. This is your thing. That's a whole class of disappointment because you're disappointed in the movie and you're disappointed in your friends and you're disappointed in your relationship with them that that's what they think and associate with you. See, you mentioned the whole Twilight thing, and the only thing that pops in my mind, and this happened when we had the second one, what was that, New Moon?

Is that the second one? Yeah, there was this little gaggle of girls in the lobby talking, waiting for, I don't know, their parents or some friend or somebody else, but they were talking about one girl that was not there. And they were trying to figure out if she was gay or not. And the thing that they explained, and it was the most bizarre thing in the world, is they were explaining how She has a boyfriend, but she has a girlfriend, but the only time, like she is some girl that apparently believed that she was a werewolf and that she was only attracted to women when she was in the werewolf form because she couldn't control the like beast within her. So ginger snaps.

I was really tempted to just be like, I was really tempted to interrupt and say, I mean, she's like a, I. Don't know, but. It's just that conversation, I was like, this is that crowd. This is the problems they have in their life. It's just like.

I don't know. Well, they're dramatizing themselves, and they're sort of coming into their sexuality, and these books sort of make it seem important and magic in a way when really it's pretty. lane yeah yeah it's just you know i i can't make fun of those girls because i've had equally as dorky conversations about star wars so i mean it's just their thing it's just they are into something different but i mean yeah. But you know the old werewolves the old werewolf movies were always about sex. Almost horror underlying. Long cheney was valutin's cat people yeah he was like the school janitor in all those movies You know, he's sort of dressed like the school janitor, and he always felt bad about turning into a werewolf.

He's like, oh, the moon's out, man. One of my favorite movie viewing sort of just little moments was when the palace was doing that. retrospective of universal horror films a couple years ago and they showed the wolfman of course so we're there and you know Lon Chaney goes to this junior goes to this shop and this woman says something to him I don't even remember what it was that she had said And he goes back home and talks to his father, and his father says the same thing. And he exasperatedly just sort of yells, that's what she said. The entire audience laughs. It's the funniest thing in the entire movie.

That's just something you don't ever get. You mentioned that. Probably one of my favorite ones recently that comes to mind is Melancholia, when I saw it. There were three moments within it that cracked me up. The first one, I mean, you have that gorgeous pre-credit sequence, just with everything just uber slow and that beautiful orchestral music.

And then as soon as that ends and it cuts to titles, there's this old couple sitting directly in front of me, and the old man leans over to his wife and goes, this is weird. But then it was the other two of them. The second one, it comes after you've seen Kirsten Dunst's story, and then it goes into the second one. So it's like chapter two. I can't think of the girl's name, but it shows that.

Yeah, Justine. As soon as that title came up, just some guy who was a couple of hours over goes. But the best one was it was some fellow near the front. As soon as the credits came up, he just stood up and was storming out of the theater and And I just, he wasn't even trying to be under his breath. He just goes, Artie, piece of shit.

It's like all three of those moments were within the same film and it was just cracking me up. It's always so amusing to just the fact that those people always pay money. You want to. Take it to melancholia. Think about that.

The first time I watched it, I, you know, I approached it super serious and was just, you know, like overwhelmed by the imagery and, music and the acting I thought it was a phenomenal film second time I watched it I could not get over the fact that Jack Bauer you know was one of the characters Kiefer Sutherland and so he was trying to save the world from a planet crashing into earth and it was just you know like the ultimate challenge for Jack Bauer. I've only got two hours left come on I've only got. Two hours instead of like Justine the time that just shows like the digital clock yeah. Udo Kier the whole time, he just looks pissed at me in the movies. He was like, this is all they gave me to do.

I'll chew the scenery up with this then. Back to Summer Disappointments, we were talking about some of the nonsense logic of Twilight. And the only thing I could think of that was in any way similar was, I mean, and I love the films, and I love the one that preceded it, but Quantum of Solace. Like, I watched that completely stone sober. Yes.

And have no clue what happened. Okay, it wasn't just me, because I was so bored with that. It's like a dream about the premise for that someone had about a Bond movie. It kind of is. Before that, Mark Forster did great films, and I didn't know what was wrong.

I just sat there and went, oh, 20 minutes, yep, we're in another country. Just every 20 minutes, all right, well, we're in another country now. At the end of it, I was like, was I stoned watching this? I had no memory of the film immediately after it ended. That was kind of my thing.

Yeah, I was a little confused when you said stoned sober. Was there a D in there? No, no, no. I was completely, there were no intoxicants in my system, and I had no concept of what had occurred during the. Course of the film.

Yeah, that was kind of my take on it. And there were cars and suits. And to this day, that is all I can remember. I remember swinging around. It really was not compelling, especially compared to the previous.

Right. And Casino Royale is one of the best in the series. He's such a good Bond. Yeah. Such a great Bond.

He makes the other Bonds look like they were just sort of kidding. I mean, I can believe him being that guy. I'm so excited for the new one. I think the new one's going to be phenomenal. Yeah.

It just didn't make any sense to me. I feel like they need another action director. What's the New Zealand guy who directed Casino, who directed GoldenEye? Why do they keep having these art house people? Shouldn't they have learned from Pondos?

Why are you going to get Sam Mendes? Because they're trying to upscale. Sam Mendes did do Jarhead. That's not an action movie, though, really. I don't consider those are dramas.

But they're still genre dramas. They have some Barney Ralph. And some Tommy Guns being shot, but it's no Casino Royale. He doesn't have that camera work, the crane work, that... I keep forgetting his name.

I was going to say, Jarhead isn't necessarily that big thing to support it on. There's Edie's End of Darkness, which was bad action. There's guns. I can't even. That's the Neil Gibson movie?

I thought the action was pretty amazing in that. With the shotgun with the girl, that was like, oh my god, that was... I mean, it was awful, but it was just like, no other director would have been that audacious with that kind of scene. So I think they need that kind of balls-to-the-wall action director, as opposed to Sam Mendes, who I admire him, but at the same time, the only movie I like that he's made so far is Revolutionary Road. But, I don't know, I...

I'm just ranting about Sam Mendes now, but yeah. I just don't know why they're doing it again. I think the rules changed because of Bourne, and they were just like, we have to do something. One of the things that could turn out brilliantly, like, oh, it was an inspired choice, but at the same time, I'm kind of hesitant, you know? Yeah.

But, yeah. He is, for whatever it counts, he is a huge fan of the series and is operating on principles of making it be one of the. long-lasting volume. Well, I have high hopes for it. I really do. I know that that never works out well, but I have a little bit more faith in him.

But actually, I don't know why it came to mind, but it started at the very beginning of all this madness. You mentioned the film. And I think actually for anyone in our age demographic, it is probably one of the most disappointing summer movies of our childhood. And that would be Super Mario Brothers. Damn it, I love that movie.

I mean, I like it too. That movie is fun. It is. It's fun, but weird. Go back to when it first came out.

I liked it then, too. See, I came in and I was like, I remember watching it. I put that movie in the same category as Big Trouble in Little China. Campy. Yeah, that can't be bad, but it's so fun.

But as a kid, you don't pick up on that campy vibe. That's true. I was like, what on earth is this? This is not the video games. It almost kind of reminded me of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the later movies, where I was like, Yeah, this is not the series.

I think, again, it was maybe the second or third time I watched it, but at that point I was like, I think that's why I like this so much is that it tried to, it didn't try to do the video game. It didn't sit there and analyze the scenes of what's going on. It just went, all right. Here's a couple of things we've got to work in. But most of all, I want to make up this weird story about all of this other stuff going on.

Which is why I like it a lot more now than I think I did as a kid. Yeah. Just because it is so bizarre. It's bizarre. I mean, there's so many talented names attached to this.

Dennis Hopper's amazing. It's just so weird. Wait, was that the movie that Roland Jaffe did? Am I losing my mind? What?

The mission? Wait, no. Yeah. No, no, no. Who did Super Mario Brothers?

I don't know who directed it. That was something like that. I haven't seen Super Mario Brothers. I think that. You should.

We can add it to the list. I think it coincided with the mission of Time Warp. It's a good double feature there. So, like, I don't know if it was him, but he may have done something similar. He is, like, the prime example of just, like, an amazing director who just fell from grace totally.

Like, what, captivity? Like, really? His most recent was really just the mission part two. There'd be dragons. I never get excited about anything that's hyped up.

Disappointment requires expectation and I never have expectation for anything that happens during the summer at all. The thing that disappoints me is when a director that I had a lot of confidence in just goes off the rails or makes a decision that I don't understand. I'm Francis Ford Coppola. There you go. I didn't go with Lynch on his last call.

I didn't even get the memo that this was summer disappointments. I'm pretty sure you just told me disappointments. It's general disappointments, but we're heading into summer. Again, I don't think we'll remember when they came out, really. We were just using the summer as the example.

Disappointments in general... And it's Rocky Morton directed Super Mario Brothers. What is the weird thing that Roland Jaffe did after The Mission? Sorry. You mean The Mission with De Niro?

Yeah. He did The Killing Fields and he did The Mission. And then he did some crazy. Adaptation of some crazy. Didn't he do Black Robe?

Is that not the same guy? I think maybe it is. God. Because Black Robe is up there in my pantheon of movies. Are you thinking of The Scarlet Letter?

No. Oh, that was awful. Because everybody hated that one. Maybe it was light motive that produced Super Mario Brothers. Because right after Mission is Fat Man and Little Boy, which I don't remember being that bad.

Scarlet Letter is the one everybody hated. I think it was his production company maybe that did Super Mario Brothers. Now we're just, none of this is it. We're totally digressing now. Wait, wait, wait.

Did he do Black Robe? That could be him. That seems like him. It's the same style. Yeah.

I do not see it on here. Uh-oh. Same with Brian De Palma. Just as far as just making. Yeah, after the Untouchables.

Black Dahlia? Oh, yes. He's always been a little off, really. He's kind of hit and miss in general. I'm excited for his Untouchables sequel.

Yeah, he is. Yeah, he really is. Because a new Horkoni is still alive and is going to score it. I'm sorry, but De Palma after Phantom of the Paradise. Okay, I'll give you credit.

He did produce. I knew I didn't make that up. 73. Or 74. You're not giving him Carrie?

You're barely giving him Sister? I'm being dismissive towards all of them. I love Phantom of the Paradise so much, it's like it hasn't been equaled. Nothing beats Snake Eyes. Yeah, the big disappointment I remember is.

In terms of having an expectation, it was American Beauty. I expected it to be like a movie. Yeah, that's the wrong way. Yeah, me too. And everybody told me it was, and I read a reviewer.

I don't know. Why I don't like it either. I just, it's like, I don't like the, something about it. I know why I don't like it. I don't like it because it's a movie that's trying to tell you it's different.

And it's exactly the same. Isn't this weird? This guy turns out to be this. It's the same movie they've been making for Outsiders since Cuckoo's Nest. It's the same movie.

And What's-His-Name is great in it, and there are things about it. But I read a review of it, and I just thought, wow, that sounds crazy. And it talked about the plastic bag in it. And I thought of it as litter. You know, like it would have advertising on it.

It would be something that is not PC, something that you're not supposed to see, that it's beautiful, and you get to it in the movie, and it's like, oh, it's a little bag doing a dance. Isn't that cute? It's not. It's ridiculous in a way. I take Revolutionary Road a lot more seriously than American Beauty because it doesn't force, like you said, it doesn't tell you how to feel.

It just shows this really sad situation. It's very believable and realistic. There's no that arty kind of music to guide you through these scenes. They're supposed to be kind of just kooky or weird or dark for the sake of being kooky or weird or dark. I just didn't get that same vibe.

I thought it was the dysfunctional family drama that I felt American Beauty should have been. Out of all the Sam Mendes stuff, I think Road to Perdition is still my favorite. I mean, I like the original Max Allen Collins story. And then just Conrad Hall. I mean, I love anything that he shoots.

And just I was so happy that he actually won, you know, an Academy Award posthumously for that. I mean, finally, yeah. Because, you know, it's just he'd been working for so long. And just, you know, it's got a fantastic score. And Hanks is good in it.

I mean, there was so much about that film I liked. Von Neumann's final film. Yeah. But actually in the way of a director that seriously I think has just sort of fallen from grace for me, and I really hope he redeems himself because he's got one coming out this summer, and that's Wes Anderson. Because Bottle Rocket I thought was fun.

Rushmore I thought was fantastic and really liked Royal Tenenbaums. And I remember when I got to Life Aquatic, that was one where I remember really wanting to walk out of it. That was going to be one of my examples too. That was hurtful. But I do think he's come back since then.

I do think Darjeeling is an odd little duck of a film. I love Darjeeling. I still don't think it worked. I don't think it's as good as his first three. But Fantastic Mr.

Fox, I think, is. I think Fantastic Mr. Fox is. is with them all the way. See, that's one I hadn't seen just because Darjeeling and Life Aquatic both left such sour taste in my mouth. I was like, eh, I'm sure it does have its redeeming qualities, it's just it's not one that's like on the must-see list right now.

Well, that, it shocked me. That seemed like that's so. Me too. I mean, I don't want to give anything, but that scene, like, it really did blow me away. Like, and I'd never expect that with Wes Anderson.

That seems like such the format for him though. He's so controlling and so specific about everything that like, why wouldn't you want to do stop motion animation? I mean, you were in control of everything. Yeah. Yeah.

Wherever you were in Europe. I think just the one thing that just sort of bothered me is as you gradually got further and further into his, you know, over films is by the time you got to life aquatic, I mean that. Sort of, um, his style i was gonna say just. Sort of that apathy i mean yeah it's funny to an extent it is funny when you have it with bill murray and you know royal tenenbaums or even with most of the characters in tenenbaums or um uh rushmore it's funny but then after a while it's just like you can only do so much with that and so by the time it got to life aquatic it's like okay, this isn't funny anymore. This has almost gotten to the point to where it's just, it's depressing me to watch this film.

It depressed me from the start. And by the time it got to that level of depression, then it started to be funny again on a whole new level. Charlie Chaplin has this great quote where, you know, to sit here and quote, right? Charlie Chaplin has this awesome quote where he says, comedy is life in mid shot. And tragedy is life in close-up.

And I think the Wes Anderson films really fit into that, as do, I think, any really, really great comedies. Now, Life Aquatic, I think his need to control the style becomes too overbearing, and he's not able to give the characters enough room to develop. But I think Darjeeling is an interesting case in that sort of tyrannical style because he's shooting on locations. And he manages to make these sets that are not sets, their locations in India, look like a Wes Anderson film. I'm just still interested in him.

He hasn't, like, totally disappointed me. Fantastic Mr. Fox, though. Paul Thomas Anderson is the one that went off the rails for me. What?

Opposite. It gets better and better. No, it doesn't. Thank you. Oh, my God, really?

Yeah. There Will Be Blood. I had a hard answer that whole time. Too little, too late. No.

Too little, too late. Magnolia. I've heard people say really interesting things about it. I was like, yeah, I can see that. Wow, that's really interesting.

Not feeling it as a film, though. I understand that. When I watched it for the first time, and I will officially point my finger at that film and say, it is the film. That turned me into a cinephile. It is the film that, you know, converted me.

And I showed it the next day or two days later to my best friend that I watched every movie with. It's like, you need to see this movie. And that is the most miserable movie watching experience I've ever had. So I understand full well how much people can hate it. Yeah.

I hated it every second. I mean, it's a three-hour long film. I was like, we can turn this off. He was the other guy going, I'm disappointed in you for thinking I would like this. That's an interesting point, which I'm totally going to throw out an option for the future here, if I'm allowed to do that.

But actually, it's almost an interesting topic just to kind of chew over. It's like, what film... got you in the movies to begin with, and what film pushed you beyond that to becoming more a cinephile? That's a good one. I think that's a whole episode right there. I have sort of an answer to that.

Actually, Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet, I was watching on TV when I was a kid, and the scene where Mercutio is killed is the moment where I thought, so that's what a director does. Because he plays it in a way where it's really romeo's fault and it's you can see that's not in the script yeah that's just a way of looking at what happens and and the director is showing you and i don't know that it's genius or anything but it it's like oh. You begin to realize the sort of machination it's not just entertainment it's. Construction yeah it's not just you know they're enacting the story as it's written it's a vision of the story and there's somebody who's doing that and uh. Specifically with film that there is a visual aspect to it that it's not just here is a story here are people who are playing characters in the story the film is unique from.

You know every other every other. Medium because of the visual aspect and how the visual aspects can make you feel things more immediately And so that's exactly what that is. So that was for me. Yeah, I think that's its own episode. We'll put a pin in that one and come back to it because that's definitely, there's a lot there.

I love you. I love you too. I'll take it right and get it at this point. So... We touched on this director earlier on a different film, but as I was looking through, trying to just think of big movies that then...

Well, I noticed a lot of the disappointments came from the sequels, which is usually how it is, because that's what builds up your expectation, is that first one. But we were discussing Spielberg earlier, Jurassic Park 2. What the hell? I haven't revisited it. I remember watching it as a kid when it came out, and And, you know, just loving it.

It's a lot darker, really. To me, it's the same movie. Minus the last 15 minutes. It's just, let's kind of redo the same stuff. It's a totally just inferior movie to Jurassic Park, but at the same time, it's just...

I mean, how many dinosaurs do you get... I mean, dinosaurs. How many movies do you get to see where, you know, Jeff Goldblum is fighting T-Rexes? And that's always awesome in my book when it's directed by Steven Spielberg. You know... all the more you know it's it's even better so and it had what's his name uh pete possum professional oh yeah dinosaur hunter.

It had it had so many elements that i was looking forward to and then there's. Just– But you're right. That is a very– it was a disappointment. It's such a– yeah, it's such a– and again, I like that last like 15, 20 minutes. I think that's the only reason he made the movie.

He got to that point and went, oh, I get to let a dinosaur tear up the city. So, yeah, that whole rest of that just feels like we're sort of rehashing shit we did in the last movie just to get to this last little 20-minute segment and watch him tear up the city, which is the only thing we didn't see last time. So I like that last segment. It's funny, you know, but, again, it's just kind of his version of Godzilla, basically. There was a movie last year that came out that, you know, I've taken some flack at it at work for not liking at all.

Really just finding my screening of it miserable. Which was Beginners. Everyone loved that. And I get loving it, I guess. I thought it was alright.

I just liked it. I don't know, like, I was just, like, not okay with it. Yeah, I think Christopher Plummer's character was the only one that actually made the movie watchable. Right, Christopher Plummer was great. I hate that director.

I'm going to adopt that as a movie review. I'm not okay with it. It's just, it was just, it felt like it was doing all of these quirky things for the sake of being quirky, which, I mean, I know that there's, like, that there's a reason for that, and this is sort of recent Sundance stuff, and that that's. Okay, but... But here it just seemed to be soulless.

Yeah, see, I thought the exact same thing. I felt like all the other characters were trite because they were just kitschy for the sake of kitschy. And Plummer was the only one where I feel like he read the script and got it and basically took it to where his character could have been totally just played up for laughs as just this old man bumbling into gay clubs. But he made the character so identifiable and sympathetic. I was like, That's why, actually, I think he deserved it, because he made a movie that I think would have been unwatchable otherwise, watchable by stepping above everyone and basically taking a mediocre script and working it to his advantage.

And speaking of gay characters being played for laughs, I love you, Philip Morris. I hated Jim Carrey in it. But I thought Ewan McGregor. Gave a tremendous performance. One of his best, and he was shitty in Beginners, but he was great in I Love You, Philip Morris, which was the only part about that that was watchable.

See, I didn't hate Jim Carrey as much as I usually do. It felt like. It was really cool that he was doing this strangely risky role for him. It was way out of the box, but he was just playing it with his same goofy. It's his same.

But it was a little... It was like a notch back. It was still too much, but at the same time, that guy existed. And the fact that he really did all this stuff, you do have to be kind of some level of crazy to get away with so much of that shit that he did. Oh, shit.

I don't know. In a way, it almost worked because of that. Because you almost need to be that Jim Carrey level of crazy to pull this stuff off. I'm kind of curious about that is Jim Carrey is the Dumb and Dumber sequel. I'm curious to see how they might.

Make that work. Jeff Daniels is doing some of the best work of his career as an actor. So I think he could at least pull through and And, you know, maybe Jim Carrey has something to add to it. Yeah, and then the Farrelly brothers are supposed to be doing it again. It's just, it's interesting.

I feel like that's too late. Well, there's already Dumb and Dumber. Yeah. And I think they're going to pretend that that doesn't exist, because that wasn't Farrelly brothers or anything associated. Yeah.

They should pretend Godfather 3 doesn't exist. I'm fine with Godfather 3. Just do Godfather 3 like the other one didn't happen. 3.5. Future generations will never know.

There's this great book of film lists. I think the title is something like Ten Bad Dates with De Niro. But there's a list in there of what certain directors wish would be remade. And the Coen brothers answered, The Godfather movies. Let's just remake them all, but in reverse order, starting with Godfather 3 and then ending up with Godfather 1.

And we'll just, let's just do that. And if we can't do that, let's do Koyaanakatsi. Remake that. That would hurt. Yes, it would.

And it would be called Baraka. Oh. Now, see, there's actually something going into movies that I'm really looking forward to. Ron Fricke has been working on Samsara for years, and he's finally touring around here and there. I hear it's done.

Yeah, it's done. I mean, actually, he's taking it around, and that's the thing. I was like, why the hell is it taking it so long? And I started researching it, and apparently it's like, it's almost that he's self-parodying himself in making this, where instead of going out and doing time-lapse over, say, A Mayan Ruin, he's waiting until there's a solar eclipse over it. So it's like, I'll wait two years and then I'll shoot this.

The time left there. It's like, it's that obsessive of filmmaking where I'm like, okay, I want to see that. I mean, it's just, it. May also be that it's in 70 millimeter, which it isn't really anywhere anymore. Yeah.

I mean, that might be a two, but yeah, I'm just really curious cause I like Kronos and I like, um. Oh, did he do Kronos as well? Yeah, he did Kronos. I loved Baraka, but I didn't know he did Kronos. Actually, anybody with the title Kronos in it, I like.

I like Del Toro's Kronos. I like Kronos. Captain Kronos. The old sci-fi one. It was one that always, you know, cropped up any time I was looking for, you know, before Criterion released it, Kronos.

Like, it was the one that came up, and I was like, no, that's not the one I want. I want the vampire one. No, I'm talking the time-lapse one, though. I mean, that one is... It's actually...

It's very, very good, and it's... It's a little bit more along the line of what Reggio did with the Katsi trilogy, more so with Koanos Katsi, because I have issues with the other two minor ones, though, because I still think they work well as a trilogy, though the third one I think is kind of messy. But, no, Kronos is a lot of fun. So I've really, really got high hopes for Samsara. That's one to where, I mean, if it's playing at like a 70mm theater in like Chicago or somewhere nearby, that's a total road trip for me for a theater experience.

Alright. I love you. I'll be living there. Anyway. All you need is love.

Well, okay. Two summer movies that I'm going to put them together because what was disappointing, what made them disappointing for me was just how much people hyped them up and how they regarded these really, I guess, great quote-unquote movies, especially because, you know, my friends, they love them both, were 300 and Kick-Ass and Both of those movies just did not do it for me. Especially Kick-Ass. I was a fan of Kick-Ass, but I thought that Super completely rendered it unimportant to me. I loved Kick-Ass.

I thought it was great. Super one-ups it. There's no need for Kick-Ass anymore. Super is pretty funny. I still like Kick-Ass, but again, it really does it is that where it falls victim to what it's trying to do.

It's trying to deconstruct the whole superhero movie and then it throws his hands up and becomes a cheesy superhero movie so at midway in it changes style you know. Which is something that super evades by not actually being from a comic book source whereas kick-ass is mark miller i believe yeah um and so you know yeah it's it is a comic book about people who are not superheroes becoming superheroes. Yeah but 300 actually i think that's the only for me the only zack snyder film that works . . . . I don't know. There's 300 for me.

I mean, it's very much just an almost panel-for-panel recreation of Frank Miller's book. The only thing that's actually in there that even isn't in it is the little subplot with the queen and all that, but everything else is in there. And it looks the same. To me, 300 is the movie equivalent of jock rock. I don't know.

It annoys me in that same way that jock rock does when I hear it on the radio. I'm just like, no, thank you. This is a very popular genre. Like, you know, I get that it's, you know, kind of rock and roll, it's really, you know, intense and everything, but it doesn't do it for me. A lot of guys with their shirts on.

Yeah, that kind of thing. But I was going to say, it's pretty much the source. Material, though, too. Frank Miller has, at least a little bit more, I feel like, had more of an artistic touch that made it more interesting. Like, his artwork was just.

I mean, I don't care for it as much as Sin City. Sin City is far superior. Oh, yeah. By far. Sin City was kind of funny, at least.

300, we can talk about it being panel for panel, but it just, like, it comes right in the wake of Sin City, and even is marketed as such. You know, just like the Spirit was, and. Talk about a disappointment. Sin City is so superior. 300 feels like a waste.

Sin City in the movie looks amazing. It's a visual feast. 300 is not. There's a lot of CGI and effects. It looks drab and dull and shitty, especially when you watch it on TV.

There's all that brown that doesn't look real. The canyons. There's no change of landscapes. And it's just such an oppressively. And that's actually something I've tried to watch on DVD since.

It's supposed to jack you up, and because I saw it in a theater of a bunch of my friends, and we kind of made this thing... I felt like I thought I had a lot more fun with it than I really did. But in the back of my head, I was like, you know what? You really don't like this movie. But because your friends are around you cheering it on, you'll buy into it for the time being.

But since watching it on TV, I'm just like... This movie comes off as just dull. It doesn't have a lot of creativity. It's oppressively macho. The violence isn't even that interesting.

It's all CGI blood, which I don't care for. I think it's one that doesn't translate well to watching it on DVD, though. So it's the. Rocky Horror of action pictures. While you're there in the audience, it seems like it's fun, but then you watch it later and it's like, what is this?

I prefer watching Rocky Horror on Blu-ray at home. Laughter I think it holds up at home. I really do. I think it's pretty fun. It's really, really good.

Yeah. Outside of the cult. I wish I had filmed you saying that. Please do. Please do.

That's awesome. I was going to say, just as somebody who worked at the theater where we had it for years and years, I was like, I wouldn't trade all the weird, awkward moments that I had from working there. It's like, because all the odd stuff, it's like, I would have never had to deal with a 16-year-old kid overdosing on acid if it weren't for Rocky IV, because I don't think that's going to happen in the Twilight films. I mean, it could be wrong. You never know.

But I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think I'm going to have to deal with people giving each other blowjobs once we get the new Judi Dench film. I don't think that's going to happen. I could be wrong. Those people behind me at Iron Lady, you should have seen them going at it.

I love you. Maybe all 300 needed was just some musical numbers and Meatloaf on a saxophone and spice things up. I would have taken to it maybe a little bit more. Not Milof on a saxophone, but the dude from Lost Boys, he would have fit right in. Everybody loves that guy.

Yeah. Well, before we get too far from Zach, Sucker Punch. I think a lot of people had issues. I was going to bring that up when you were talking about Super Mario, because you're like, it's not the video game. No, they saved that for Sucker Punch.

Whenever that chick starts dancing, you're playing a video game. At your friend's house and waiting for your turn. The problem for me with Sucker Punch is that there were moments where I was like, this is damn good filmmaking. I mean, like the opening bit I thought was amazing. And I was like, oh, you know, shit, everyone was wrong.

This is going to be phenomenal. It's got moments. And it dies. But then it comes back. And then it dies.

Because it's in segments. Yeah. It is. It's like a series of file cards. Yes.

That's exactly how Watchmen was. The Dr. Manhattan sequence in the Watchmen film is brilliant. It's one of the best sequences. My favorite sequences in any movie, period.

I will go to the DVD and watch it repeatedly. It's so beautifully done. The Philip Glass music is a perfect choice. The way they do the montage, it's kind of touching. It comes together just perfectly. perfectly, I think, but there's just some other scenes in watching which I'm just like, this is shitty.

The acting is crap. I still think it holds up better than Sucker Punch. As a story. I haven't seen Sucker Punch. Actually, that was Zack Snyder, too.

Sucker Punch, and even there's this... There's a part of me that wants to go and watch the director's cut. I just haven't gotten to it yet, but I actually want to. Is there a director's cut? There is.

I felt like. The way that certain scenes worked together, there actually felt like there were some pieces of the puzzle missing that might've made it into a great film. Yeah. Like it really felt like that. And it, it shocked me because, uh, you know, it was in fact like what I was watching was so awful.

Well, it's one of those, I, and you have to say this about Zack Snyder overall, but definitely with that movie, it's like, You don't have to like Sucker Punch, but you have to admit he's an interesting filmmaker. Whatever he's putting on the screen, good or bad, it's not half-assed. He's got a mission, and he is making it happen. He's doing the new Superman film, and that reminds me of one that disappointed me, and that was Superman Returns. I know some.

People who loved it. I still haven't watched it. Yeah, the one that Bryan Singer did. Very forgettable. And that was the whole thing.

It's like, coming off of X-Men 2, which was a hell of a lot of fun, I was expecting a lot of fun from the Superman film, because I've never been a big Superman fan, and I remember thinking, I'm watching a friggin' soap opera, because it's all about him, or you know. He came off the soap opera, that actor. Yeah, I don't like that Ralph guy, I'm sorry. But it was so tedious, and not only that, but I mean, you know, the whole, you know, Lex Luthor versus Superman thing, Kevin Spacey and this guy, they're on screen, I remember like, looking at my watch, I was like, out of this two-and-a-half-hour film, they're on screen together for five minutes. Five minutes.

The rest of it is just relationship bullshit that, you know, I'm watching a chick flick. Like heat? Yeah, there are certain things they put into movies that they're trying to generate interest, and they just kill everything. They just take you, you lose track. And that's the problem with Sucker Punch, is there are just points at which it's like, you're going, what?

What? And you can't, there's nothing to hold on to dramatically. And then there's other stuff that's so good. It like answers the central dramatic questions before you even form them in your mind. And you go, oh yeah, that's what I wanted to know.

But I don't know, in Sucker Punch, I just lose track. And by the time she's having to dance to steal a knife in the kitchen why does he even have to be there i don't understand i'm lost it makes no sense okay. It's it's going through the motions basically yeah yeah. It is following you know kind of like scott pilgrim did uh albeit far superior yeah It is... The logic of Sucker Punch is in line with the logic of video games, where you've got.

I just don't know that game. I can't work the controls. That's why I quit playing all these games. There's too many buttons. I'm just spinning around in circles, man.

You've got to get the knife. It's not like the narrative opens it up so that you can easily get the knife. You have to complete a mission in order to. Yeah, it's mission-based, and each segment is a mission, and. It's...

And it functions logically that way. It's just. it doesn't function as a good movie by the. End and that reminds me of a big disappointment that I remember watching it and I felt like I was watching a video game and that was The Matrix Reloaded I. Had that written down I was like both of the sequels to me are a let down. Yeah because I remember sitting there and like the whole sequence you know where they have to get the key and they're just running through and all this stuff I was like I think actually the whole point to where I remember started looking at my watch was the whole like weird rave you know sex thing that was just like What the hell am I watching?

That was like the first big mid-step of the movie when that rave goes on. You're like, I thought I was watching The Matrix. What did this. That lasts forever. I mean, the only thing.

Very awkward. That Balcanal scene. I couldn't even remember that. That's the only thing I remember from the film. And the whole architect scene where he's going on forever and ever.

I'm like, I feel like I'm watching the last 30 minutes of Mulholland Drive again. You're telling me there's something here to figure out, but there's nothing to figure out. They're getting hard-ons writing that dialogue. You know they are. And I'm just like, bullshit.

You're bullshitting me. And I'm not buying it. And you're telling me I have to know. It's like, when did Neo go from just this ordinary guy... who just managed to overcome the odds to being like friggin' Jesus Christ. That's when it lost me, because the first movie...

The first movie, right. The first movie, he's identifiable. That's true. But the first movie, he's identifiable because he starts off as an average Joe. Yeah, he's your end point.

That actually just happens. He lets you in. Yes, he's John McClane. He's walking on glass and cutting his feet. But I mean, then in the second and the third one, it's like, okay, we know he's this guy, so there's nothing to really root for because he even believes it.

And it's just, you know, I. I never even saw the third one. That's the problem with Superman. That's why after Spider-Man came along, they had to start weakening him. Yeah.

Because he's just not that interesting. I always kind of thought that. Like within your whole little, again, back to the Avengers superhero group. Like that was always what pissed me off with your little super friends group is like, He could freaking do everything. It was sort of annoying.

I'm just like, Batman can't do jack shit, and he's holding his own, and you have powers that, you know, basically every other power that everybody in the group has, you also have. Yeah, so your real conflict with Superman is like, so why are you doing this? Jacking around being a reporter all day. What the fuck? Why are you wasting your time hanging out with Aquaman?

Aren't things happening somewhere in the world that you ought to, like, pay a little attention to? That's why I always identified more with, like, Marvel characters, especially Spider-Man. I was like, I get this character. It's like, he can't get a girl. He's screwing up at school.

Exactly. I get this stuff. Yeah, yeah. And he wasn't like Batman. He wasn't dark.

He was really, like, a pretty... cheerful kid. He just always had a headache and his girlfriend was mad at him. And, and that, that was interesting. His boss was yelling at him. We all kind of identify with that.

But disappointments that really, I mean, it killed the series and that's why we've got the new one coming out this year is Spider-Man 3. And I think that part of it was the fault of like the Batman Begins thing. I mean, the first two Spider-Mans are a lot of fun. They're light. They're, you know, almost like comedy, action comedies.

Whereas the third one, it's like, he felt the need to make these tragic characters. Spidey goes emo. Yeah, exactly. And I think part of that came from the whole Batman Begins thing. That became the trend in superhero movies.

That fell prey to the thing that all of them do, and that is the too many villains. Too many villains. That's what I was going to say. Everybody always goes into that. But if you were going to do the dark Spider-Man, you could get De Niro from Taxi Driver years.

He could be Peter Parker. going in the dark direction. If you can pay him to do that, I'll watch it. Yeah, I'm fine with that. I mean, you just needed Sandman. Or you just needed.

Venom is his own movie, which I think they're still trying to do. But yeah, you can't make Venom a 15-minute segment. Originally it was going to be The Lizard. They set it up with that with Dylan Baker's character. In all three movies.

Being Dr. Connor and the other two. And it's just that never came to fruition. And you kept getting these weird cock-tease announcements that, oh, it's going to be Bruce Campbell as Mysterio. And it's like, oh, sorry.

No, never mind. I am really excited for the new one. I was surprised to see that Mark Webb is doing a different... Spidey vision than Raimi, and Raimi's was very Raimi. I mean, it was Evil Dead stuff, him swooping through the sky.

Yeah, that hospital scene with Doc Ock. See, and I think that was just sort of a wink to the audience, and that didn't bother me. I thought it was fun. I think the first two are pretty awesome. The Mark Webb point of view, where we see him going, and I didn't even think it worked until I finally saw it.

Mirror's Edge video game. Rip off. But see, that's my fear, is this thing, it's going to try to take that sort of Batman vein to where it is like this darker you know more brooding character and I do not think that can work for Spider-Man's character based on the source material I just don't because. I mean he's just a different mindset like he always has been it's a different. World yeah it is a different world and I don't think you could take that formula and try to apply it to a certain character and assume it's going to work and actually it probably.

Was nice to do that with batman because that darkness is. In yeah that's the whole bulk of the story it's like this thing yeah it was a. Fucked up individual yeah that was good for the material but spider-man's a different guy the part of spider-man is like He's an innocent dork that happens to special powers. And he gets in trouble for being Spider-Man. He gets in trouble for not being Spider-Man.

He still lives in his aunt's basement. He's got everyday problems. I don't see that darkness applying. I just really don't. I'm sure I'll see it.

I'm not excited for it. So you're pre-disappointed. That's what it's come to. I'm not pretty disappointed. It's just like what Lucy was saying earlier.

I'm not setting expectations high. And that's actually, it's funny. There's so many recent summers to where I really haven't had high expectations for anything because I just had my hopes dashed so much. I never had high summer expectations. See, I kind of didn't until I saw that new trailer on the Avengers.

It was like. This better be fucking good. Ridley Scott came out and, you know, of course, this is just like David Fincher's pre-Dragon Tattoo buzz. But he came out and he's like, you know, Prometheus is like 2001 on steroids. I was like, you can't say that, man.

Don't say that. Like, you really can't. But that new trailer looks really good. It's going to be really good. This whole conversation is making me feel very grateful for my worldview because I feel like it helps me avoid a lot of sadness.

It just never occurred to me to be excited about 300 or Sucker. Punch or any sequel. To any film ever, especially comic book movies. So I'm a little confounded right now. It's a Y chromosome thing.

Yeah, I never have good expectations for anything in the summer. I just don't expect it. I like the pleasant little surprises that arise. If something is kind of fun, I'm okay. Usually it's something that's under the radar.

Like, I remember the redeeming one of, like, summer of 2006 was Brick. I mean, I saw that. I was like, ah, best movie of the summer. Yeah, that's fun. But then these films, they only, you know, they last, like, A week because they're so overshadowed by everything else.

Was Drive this past fall or late? That was fall. That was into September. That's a rare example where my expectations could not have been higher and somehow managed to exceed them. That's very rare for me.

I hope I get that out of the summer movie, but I tend not to. Which I actually thought was funny because Tarantino released his list at the end of the year of the ten best movies. And then, like, or 11 or whatever, like, the number one movie where he chalked it up as the nice try category was Drive. Really? It's like, he's pissed that somebody actually made a Tarantino movie.

Yeah, you know what he probably hated was that he likes chattiness and dialogue, and that movie was all about just not saying that. I'm not going to talk. He probably hated that. Yeah, I could see how he wouldn't like that. Just Tarantino's list.

It was a very quiet movie. He likes the talking head, you know. Sure. Not the band, but you know. He had Rise of the Planet of the Apes on there in that movie.

Irritated me so much. It actually surprised me. It was better than I thought it would be. But again, I forgot about it. After I watched it.

I was in China for most of the last summer. And I came back after like two months. And I asked my friends. I said, okay, what have I missed? What do I need to see?

And like two or three people were like, oh, Rise of the Planet of the Apes. It was like the best surprise I saw this summer. People went ape shit, pun intended, over that movie. And I don't understand why. And I don't understand.

And everyone's logic was... Well, it wasn't that bad. I'm like, but it wasn't that good. And that's where. Expectation comes into it, because if somebody says it's the best surprise ever, then guess what?

It's not a surprise to you, so it's not going to be good. I'm going to like it going in nothing, though. Because I expected nothing, and I loved it. I thought it was fun. Mostly for it being a subversive.

I expected little and got little. Anti-bibisection rant. Made me realize how much I prefer people in ape makeup than digital apes. I disagree. I thought the digital stuff was phenomenal.

I thought that the guy, what's his name? Andy Serkis. Andy Serkis. He's good. He's incredibly talented.

I was completely convinced by. All of the digital work, I thought it was the most convincing digital work that I'd even seen. It looked better than I expected, I'll give you that. Yeah, it did look. And I thought that it was, I mean, not that this means anything, but it's the best eight movie we've had since the eight movies.

Yeah. It was fun. None of the eight movies were ever masterpieces. What about Dunstan Checks In? Where does that factor in?

You still haven't watched Congo on VHS. That's true. We've got to come back to that. It steals the scene. It does.

With all of his accents. Every time it changes, I take another shot and the movie gets better. That's a classic. Ernie Hudson. Nobody told me that was great but i knew some kids who thought it was good and i saw it's like yeah that's fun i can see why they liked it yeah um i like to drive but it didn't really i don't know see.

I worship drive i worship yeah i saw it. Four times in theaters i. Think and i never see anything more than one. I was kind of in the middle i i didn't not like it but i don't think maybe again maybe it was built up too much because i just went and went It's all right. I liked it, but it didn't really particularly.

Back when I was making, I make every, at the end of every year, like a list of anticipated films and try and go for a whole, a total of 50 and rank them. And, um, and drive was very near the top precisely because of just this one still I had seen. And that still wasn't even in the movie. Uh, so I don't know where it came from, but, uh, it must've been like a set picture or something of Ryan Gosling, uh, um, with a toothpick, I guess he had his toothpick and Carrie Mulligan, like next to him with a jacket and a hood and her hands were pulling down the jacket. And she was just sort of like this.

I think I've seen that online. Yeah. This looks so cool. I don't even know what it's about. And then I saw the cast had Ron Perlman and Brian Cranston.

And I was like, this is going to be great. I hadn't yet figured out that it was the director who had done these other great films, hadn't yet figured out what the story was going to be. All I had heard was something like, here is a movie about a heist goes wrong and he ends up in a car with the boss's girlfriend. And that's all I knew. And that's not even what the movie's about.

And so I just went into it thinking that and was just totally blown away. I kind of felt like I knew where it was going. As soon as I saw his neighbor see her, the door down, I'm like, okay, get on with it. I know where this is going. And the ending, I don't know, I felt like it was, I don't know, it just didn't strike me.

I had a few issues with the ending, not terrible issues. I just didn't feel like it was, you know, the master stroke. It didn't. Catch me off guard or anything. I really liked it.

I liked the performances. That was mine. I just liked the performances. People talk about how there weren't any scenes like it was too slow or something. I mean, for me, that motel scene, I still like.

There's several images in that whole sequence that are stuck in my mind forever. It just totally shocked me and took me by surprise. I think maybe because I wasn't expecting it to be so ultra-violent, and the people who weren't as blown away by that, I think, were told that it's a really violent, dark movie. I think that was part of my expectations. There's the moment where Albert Brooks kills the one fellow in the diner.

He just tells Ron Perlman, he's like, you clean up your mess. I was like, oh my god! This movie. I'm not even sure why I love it as much as I do. The only way I've figured out to explain it to people is that I'm in love with it.

The way you fall in love with a person... It's irrational. I value it above other movies. I don't think it can do any wrong when somebody speaks poorly of it. I get angry.

Yeah, now this makes sense. It's just completely irrational, but I connect to it in some way. And Fred, you were saying that you didn't think it does anything new, and I don't think that it does. Well, now I'm just putting words in your mouth, but that we've kind of seen it before. Well, it didn't catch me off guard is what I'm saying.

What I really liked about. It was I feel like this was a story that we've seen a million times, but from a very different perspective, and that it's the film about... the bad boy that meets the girl and tries to go good, and we see him after he's already met the girl, so we think he's this good guy, and then sort of halfway through, we realize this isn't the guy that we thought he was at all, which is her reaction. Yeah, I mean, there's dozens of film noir that are that exact same storyline. Catch it at a different moment. And I think that we think that we know what's going on, and then we don't.

It sort of... It just takes everything from a completely different perspective. And see, that's actually something that I like, is taking a predictable storyline, and then just when you think you can have it figured and know exactly where it's going to go, it turns the storyline on its head. I mean, those are the movies to where I'm always really pleasantly surprised by them. Like, okay, this is clever.

They've taken just a new route, and that was definitely one of them for me. I think we've definitely. Gotten quite a bit out of this and again we can probably go on for many more episodes so I say sequel and then everybody can be disappointed in the sequel but yeah I think there's definitely a lot of them we didn't get to yet but you know we always need to come back to more topics so we'll just continue this on somewhere down the road I say so anything else to round this one out. I love you I figured it But yeah. As far as our upcoming plans, as we've previously mentioned, a couple weeks out, we will be coming to you live, sort of, from the Harry Dean Stanton Fest.

So at least Lucy and I and whoever else wants to go and bother people there, we'll piece together something from the festival there and hopefully get one, if not two, cool episodes out of it. We'll probably also be mixing it up because right about that time, I think the week after, we'll be, again, semi-live from Wonderfest. So we've got quite a few cool out-into-the-world kind of episodes coming at you. So those will be probably jumping back and forth weeks just to get them all out there and mix it up a little bit. So that will be in the near future.

Otherwise, for this episode, I think that about does it. We will return next week. Same geek time, same geek feed. Thanks for listening. Oh, you shouldn't have done them, you couldn't have done You wouldn't have done the things you did then We could have been.

Happy What a piteous thing, a hideous. Thing We're stranded by the rest. But it won't get any harder And I hope you'll find your way again And it won't get any. Higher And it all boils. Down to what you didn't say.

Thank you. The night behind, I fled, you're right It was exactly then, it. Was exactly then I decided, decided, decided, decided. You are the night we fight I'm. Glad you're right It.

Wasn't just bleeding. It wasn't just bleeding I just. Died, just died, just died, just died and. And it won't be any harder And I hope you'll find your way again And it won't get any. Higher But it all boils down to what you did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Disappointment Disappointment Disappointment, disappointment. Disappointment, disappointment. All right. I love you.

I didn't get a love you too. I love you too. Thank you. This episode is a production of movie meltdown produced and edited by the out of two studios. with opening music performed by the Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.

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