211: Super Santa Sangre

Okay, you bozos out there, this is Stephen Kioto and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. It's showtime, folks. Enjoy the show.

Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know. Way down among Brazilians, coffee beans grow by the billions. So they've got to find those extra.

Cups to fill. They got an awful lot of coffee in Brazil. What's up? Welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian.

I'm Greg. I'm Beau. I'm Ben. I'm Lucy. I'm Alan.

And we're back for another session of the Caffeinated Movie Geek. Cappuccino my butt. I still drink coffee. The last fucking thing you need is another cup of coffee. It's time for the Caffeinated Movie Geek.

We are coming to you live via digital recording from Nancy's Bagel Grounds where we will get together and drink coffee and talk about a horrifying movie. Lucy, you still don't know what it is. I don't. I tricked you into letting me off the hook and now you have to say what it is. Did you say it was Torgo's Wake?

Is that the name of the coffee? This week we are drinking Saddle Mountain. Oh, I did want to say that. Say it now. No, it's too late.

Lucy, what random copy are you doing? Honestly, you've already ruined it. Lucy, what random copy? Mother! Organ saddle.

All right, so for our little intro here, I had a movie that I watched recently, and I specifically wanted to bring it up because I think we had, I think I heard this conversation going on in a recent episode, but it was like. While we were doing other random stuff. I was probably running cables around or making coffee or something ridiculous. So it wasn't actually on the show. So if it's not on the show, it doesn't exist.

So I wanted to throw this out there and see if I was correcting what I thought I heard. But I recently watched Moonrise Kingdom. And I think we were having... I think I heard similar feelings. My feeling is kind of the way Wes Anderson's stuff has gone and has gone for a long time now.

It's that. everybody is so quirky. It is quirky turned up to 11, and yet there's not really any heart to it. Is it just me? It was just you. Okay.

Yeah. I was charmed. No, I like those kids. The kids are good, and everybody else has these great performances, but it still seems like there's something kind of hollow about that. Well, that's what kind of turned me off about Wes Anderson films, and I've I still need to see Moonrise Kingdom, but Life Aquatic was the one that just completely turned me off.

And I think it's after I went back and re-watched his first three, Bottle Rocket and Royal Tenenbaums and Rushmore, I felt like Royal Tenenbaums, it's one of my favorites, but it's also the turning point because in all of his movies, his characters are characterized by being childish. I mean, Bottle Rocket, the Wilson character, brothers are essentially grown-up kids, but it sort of works because they play off one another very well. In Rushmore, the lead is a high school student, so that works within its realm. And, I don't know, I mean, when it comes to Royal Tenenbaums, it sort of exists in its own reality, and it's just the characters at that point, I mean, they still are juvenile in their own sense, and either that or just they're chronically depressed, but that's like the gag.

Yeah. But it got to the point where I almost felt like, by the time I saw Life of Chronic, I felt like he was almost parodying himself. Yeah. Just the angst was so overwhelming, especially when it came to Murray. It's like Murray's shtick in Rushmore was to be chronically depressed and embittered.

And it was funny because you hadn't seen Bill Murray in a role like that before. And then when he did it again in Tenenbaums, it's like, it's all right. But to me, Murray's role didn't stick out that much in Tenenbaums. But then when you put him on the screen for two hours in Life Aquatic, I was like, the gag is old in ten minutes. And from what I understood of people who saw, Darjeeling Limited, and that was not fantastic Mr.

Fox, but is there another? No, that's it. No, that's it. Life Aquatic, yeah, that was it. Or Darjeeling, is it?

Darjeeling Limited? Yes, not Unlimited. Okay. I heard that it was almost a further extension of the problems that I felt like were arising in Life Aquatic. I haven't seen it, so I don't know if you all could.

That's terrible. I think, well, it definitely, I don't know, it feels, it has a serious turn in it. I don't want to spoil it. Darjeeling Unlimited, I mean, not Moonrise Kingdom. Moonrise Kingdom really was really, like, charming.

Like, it's his most, like, It's fairytale-ish. And that's why I assumed it probably worked is because he works well with characters that are childish in some way. And so if his main two protagonists are the youngest two that he's ever used before, I could totally see that working. Yeah, there's like... I mean, I kind of got a weird.

I can't point to a specific image or scene, but I got this weird kind of Night of the Hunter vibe by the end of the movie. I don't know why, but it. Just kind of felt... Kids on the run. Yeah, kids on the run.

And how it had the silhouetted kind of image... I'm not going to spoil too much, but there's, like, a church, and it's at nighttime, and, like, the way he frames it and kind of has this gothic, like, image of this church silhouette, you know, with a kind of, like, and then it's raining, and it's at nighttime. Like, he kind of gave me that kind of vibe, I guess. But with Darjeeling Limited, like, it didn't kind of hook me in until, like, after, like, the first 45 minutes, and there's this kind of, like, major dramatic turn that kind of, like, jolts all the characters into reality and, like, makes them reassess, like, their own kind of, you know, insecurities. And that kind of made it interesting for me.

It didn't, like, and the thing was I had to watch it, like, a couple more times for it to really, like, for me to decide that, yeah, that event in the middle of the movie is what makes it a good movie for me. Like, if it had gone on like the way it was going on with them on the train, kind of the typical, like, you know, your, you know, typical Wes Anderson kind of fare where they're just kind of all just... Yeah, the whole thing on the train, if it had gone on like that, it would have just not done it for me. He probably would have been another life aquatic, which I can't really stand. He just seemed like he got in that kit.

And I hadn't watched the last couple because I kind of just didn't really care about the whole Wes Anderson thing for a while there. And this one looked really good, and I thought, okay, let's see. But I did get that feeling. It did seem like. He didn't start out that way, because I think Bottle Rocket seems pretty real.

Those guys don't seem quirky, they just seem kind of dumb. There's a lot of dumb people in the world. So that one didn't seem as weird, and it kind of worked at Rushmore. It was the Royal Tenenbaums, and that's probably one of his most successful ones. But it really is when he got successful, and they threw a lot of money at him, and he had big stars, and.

All of a sudden it's like it was. It was that turning point where you could see he was really working on that quirky vibe, and everybody was... almost a caricature more than an actual character. And I feel like that seems like it's been there. I haven't seen the Fantastic Mr. Fox.

I actually want to see that. No, that's actually, I just saw that not too long ago, and that's a lot of fun. I was surprised by that. A very different thing. But still, I don't totally question him as a filmmaker, because again, I think Moonrise Kingdom looks amazing.

And he still gets great performances, but they just don't seem genuine. I don't know. I feel so differently. His career has been so frustrating to me because I did feel like he was sort of on a downward trajectory from go. I loved Bottle Rocket.

I liked Rushmore. I loved Rushmore, not as much as Bottle Rocket. I felt like every movie was getting weaker and weaker. And then kind of on. An upswing, Afterlife, Aquatic, just because you don't get worse than Life, Aquatic, it's literally impossible to make a movie.

Worse than that. So Darjeeling Limited was a little better, but I felt like this, I'll go ahead and use the term return to form. Like, I thought it was everything I wanted, everything that I love about his movies, I thought this movie was. And it made me really happy. It looked that way, and that's what I expected going in, I guess.

And maybe I expected too much, because I don't know. I think I probably put him back to that level. And I don't know, I think it's still, again, mostly the kids. Like the kids, the kids are what. Brings back the, the human element of his early moves.

The adults in the rice game are still kind of that quirky stilted kind of social worker. They're funny, but they're not like they're great performances, but they just don't say, I mean, they're definitely. Not real people. I even liked Bruce Willis. I never liked Bruce Willis.

Bruce Willis was awesome. That's the thing. Like, I mean, he was great in this movie, but like, I do have to say that none of the adults, uh, They're very much like how Wes Anderson does adults now. It's just become kind of this thing. And not how he, I guess, did it in, like, Rushmore.

Yeah. Or, like, Bottle Rocket, which I haven't spent so long since I've seen Bottle Rocket, I can't even fairly, like, reference anything in that movie because I have such a weak memory of it, but. When Bill Murray goes out to cut down a tree, don't you feel his frustration? It's sad, yeah, but it's like, it's an enigma why he's sad. He's just sad.

He might as well be called sad because. I feel like he was on the. Right track by calling, what's her name, Jill Swin, social worker. I was like, yes, just name the person whatever their quirky quality is, and that would make sense because that's all they are. They don't go past that.

Like, you know, Bruce Willis is like, you know, self-loathing, you know. I mean, he's just moping. All the adults really like him. Bill Murray seems to play the same character in all of Anderson's films. Even Francis McDormand, who's always pretty good, is good in this, but again, it seems so cartoony.

It doesn't seem like a real person. It's like a And Edward Norton's character especially. He was a character of the Scoutmaster who's just like, well, golly gee, Wilkers. I'm like, okay. That's not a real person.

It's funny. I like it. It's interesting. It adds texture to it, but it's not how Wes Anderson used to... You didn't get that in Bob Rocket.

Yeah. He was a different filmmaker. People like, I mean, I'm thinking of Rushmore mainly because I have a better memory of Rushmore. But just like the adults in that movie were like really complicated and like just, especially the woman who played the teacher who he had a crush on. She had this, I don't know, she kind of had this bitterness, like this, she seemed like a real person.

She just didn't seem like this cartoonish kind of. Yeah. Yeah, because I always like that scene to where he just comes back and she's packing up and he's still trying to appeal to her and she's like, grow up. And she sees through his. Bullshit and she's just sick of him and she just gives him basically the lashing that he deserves, that you're a terrible person for doing this.

And that is just a real kind of. Genuine angry, I'm sick of your shit, real life moment from an adult and say, I haven't nothing... from any of his characters since then has gone to that level of reality for me, if that makes sense. That scene in the bedroom where he's bandaged, like you said, on the head or whatever. But I like Moonrise Kingdom. That's the thing.

I still like Moonrise Kingdom. I like it a lot better than, of course, Life Aquatic. I even like it better than Darjeeling, which I thought was very good. I thought Moonrise Kingdom was better, particularly because of the kids and the fairytale kind of... vibe I got from it but Moonrise Hymn is my favorite it's really good and yes it's interesting that you say you didn't feel like it had heart like the my friend who went to see it with me like he was crying in that part with the church and I wasn't quite there but you know like I felt. It you're just dead inside oh wait.

I know but meanwhile like Bottle Rock it's my second least favorite of his which is weird because everybody else loves it and I didn't love it I was a little bored I. Don't love it. I find it kind of the middle of the ground. Yeah, but it was a very different style back then compared to what he ended up being. So, yeah, it's just a very.

It's weird to look at him comparatively now. Yeah, because actually I did kind of a... For a couple of months I was watching pretty much all his movies to lead up to Moonrise King because I wanted to re-watch the ones I'd seen, watch the ones I hadn't, and so I had Bottle Rocket in between Royal Tenenbaums and Fantastic Mr. Fox. It's completely different.

Everything. It's kind of weird, but it's good. So I don't know, I just wanted to see what everybody else thought. I knew we were having some sort of discussion about him recently, so I was like, I wanted to see where everybody else. Weighed in on that one.

And specifically, I wanted to intro this episode of that, because he's a director who has a very. Specific visual style and. A look and you know we're going to end up talking about another one of those directors when we come back. So that's your Jodorowsky time we'll take a break and we'll. Come back.

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Be prepared to live the most wonderful experience of your life. Alejandro Jodorowsky's film classic, El Topo. El Topo is not a Western. It goes far beyond any Western. El Topo is not a religious film.

It contains all religions. It is a mystic film. El Topo is bloody. It is tender. It is sexual.

El Topo is miraculous and terrible. It's funny. It's violent. El Topo is monstrous and cruel. El Topo is more than spectacle.

It is an experience for all of your life. That movie was pretty good. What? That movie gets an M.G. straight up. Straight up M.G.

Material. Honey, is that Robert De Niro across the street? Sure looks like him. Can't be, though. He's calling to us.

Let's just go. But it's Bobby fucking D, honey. Hey, yo. That's right. It's Bobby fucking De Niro over here.

Hey, a lot of people don't know. This about me. Yeah, I'm mingling down here with the drug dealers, the pimps, the pushers, the low-level. Gangsters, you know. Honestly, I'm slinging some shit myself.

You may not know this about me, but I'm a fan of podcasts. Yeah, I've been listening to these guys Bloodbaths and Boomsticks, a couple of knuckleheads from around the way you got guys. john smallberries what a fucking name on this guy you got cory g guy's fucking half retarded over here likes john woo for fuck's sake then you got tim gross he's got the movie watching constitution of a billy goat hey find these guys at bloodbathsandboomsticks.blogspot.com long fucking name but just go find it it's worth it you knuckleheads got that yeah. Bloodbaths, and broomsticks. It's on the. House tweaked audio your source for high performance noise reducing earbuds available in three styles and seven colors Durable and designed to sound great for both music and those chatty podcasts, like the one you're listening to now.

Tweaked Audio earbuds come with a one-year warranty, and now there's a special deal for Movie Meltdown listeners. Just go to tweakedaudio.com, and when you check out, enter the discount code MELTDOWN. Then you'll get 33% off and free shipping. Tweaked Audio sounds better. They called him Machete.

This is Danny Trello, a.k.a. Machete. And you're checking out Movie Meltdown. You better keep checking it out or I'll. Come looking for you.

And I got machetes. I soon realized they just fucked with the wrong Mexican. Machete. It's time for Sofa Theater. Machete.

They are moving as if they were written. In the sea. My dear friend, I didn't want. To love you. I didn't make your heart hurt.

Please, Father, help us. They want to destroy our temple. No one would dare. Do such a thing. Please, please, let me see your church.

This is it, Monsignor. This is where we worship our beloved saint and martyr. Here she is, Monsignor. But this is no saint. Monsignor, she is a saint.

How could you? Right here. Many years ago, Lirio, a young girl, was attacked by the Terrano brothers. She tried to fight them off with all her strength, but they cut off her arms. They raped her.

And left her to die in a pool of blood. And on this ground, miraculously still wet with her holy blood, we built our church. This is pain. No, it's holy blood. This is pain.

It's holy blood. You hear me, crazy woman? It's pain. It's not, it's not, it's not. It's pain.

It's pain. It's holy blood. It's holy blood. Holy blood. guitar solo guitar solo. Mad, let it smoke, clean and shout.

Help! Help! Help! This is a movie about young lovers. What?

This is a movie about young lovers. Yeah, yeah. Two kids. Sort of. Not really on the run.

Probably should have been. So we all watched the Santa Claus movie. Tim Allen, right? No, I watched Santa Claus, the one with Dudley Moore. John Lithgow.

There's that one Saint Nick movie or something where Santa Claus is killing small children. Something like Saint Nicholas or something like that. No, I thought we were supposed to watch Santa Claus and drink Sangria. I was telling Greg, for about five minutes, I seriously considered making a big batch of sangria to bring in, but then I decided not to, obviously. Could have just brought some water with paint, red paint.

This is paint. No, it's sangria. It is paint. See, that was in the pool with sangria. Just top it with some oranges.

That would be awesome. A church with sangria. What he called man-gria. He made it at the end of the night when, if you weren't drunk, there'd be no way you'd drink it. He just mixed red wine.

Sprite, and vodka. Good lord. It actually didn't taste too bad. It actually almost tasted like grape soda. Deceivingly.

After you've had eight drinks. I would have tasted had I been sober at the get-go. Sorry, that wasn't pain. It was holy blood. Right.

Holy blood. We're not drinking those. Mangria tastes like Fanta. It's great. So in actuality, this week's Sofa Theater feature is Santa Sangre.

The year is 1989. Director Alejandro Jodorowsky. The plot, and I didn't like the IMDb, not. That I ever do, but it was really wordy and told the entire plot, so Netflix had a nice little breakdown here. We're going with the synopsis on Netflix.

In this intense, hallucination-filled thriller, a traumatized young man helps his vengeful, armless mother on a grisly murder spree. Spoiler alert. Yeah, there you go. Right. I'm hooked.

Thank you, Netflix, for your platform. Yeah, that's completely in. But knocks it out in one sentence. The other one's like a paragraph, and it goes through everything in the movie. So, yeah, that's straight to the point.

All right, so where would you like to begin on this film? I was telling them before we started, like, I have no idea what I'm going to say about this, and I suggested it, so I feel kind of bad about that. I think there's a lot to talk about. There's a lot to talk about. That's what I was telling Greg, too.

It's like, where to start? When I was like, normally I'll just kind of make notes or stuff we need to talk about. And I got into this, and I was just like, I don't know, where do we begin? I have a question. You were drinking during this, so how'd that go?

Well, you know, anytime I can be alone and drinking, I feel pretty bad about myself. That's a good question. Right. So, no, it kind of went, it kind of, drinking along with a movie like this is kind of maybe what you should do. I don't know.

I guess it depends on what kind of child you take. You don't have hallucinogens. Right. I'm just picturing this great mental image of you in a darkened room. Drunk, crying, watching this movie, and your kid's peering through.

The door like, Daddy? Daddy? And then just the wife's. Saying, no, no, no, Daddy needs his podcasting time. They were gone.

They all left the house. And I thought this was a perfect time. Screaming or just? So it was the dog looking around the corner going, oh, God, is he still? Oh, yeah.

No, he sat in the chair next to me watching it. So, or sleeping. By the end of the movie, he's like, Oh, this is so great. If I had somebody to reach underneath my arm, we'll get a beer. I wasn't, I wasn't drunk by any means.

Um, I had a couple of drinks. Uh, no, it, I went into this completely blind. I knew nothing, which I like doing that. Had you seen any of the films prior? No.

I just knew them by reputation. I'd seen bits and pieces of the crazier ones, and I knew this by title. Which ones are the crazier ones? No, they're crazier than this. To me, this seems like...

This movie, Kramer vs. Kramer, is the most. As much of a... I mean, every idea of a nightmare that you could have is packed into, you know, with... You know, clowns are already creepy enough.

Yeah. You know, and cults are pretty creepy. And when you're putting them together. It's... Clowns are friendly, though.

I love the clowns. You know, I went to a circus once that had four performing Mexican clowns. And it was long and drawn out, and one of them had a high-pitched voice that my kids still mimic. He says, I love to play music. He's like, I love to play music.

And they play this. It goes back and forth with him losing his instrument. It's actually a very entertaining little sketch. A lot of the other kids at the circus were bored and eating popcorn and all that kind of stuff. And we had a lot of fun watching it, and it looked like these four clowns that are in this movie, which kind of makes it even more surreal.

The thinking of this nice memory that I have and then putting it into this film. The memory of Greg and his children laughing and just sort of echoing off of the walls of the interior of the circus because everyone else is just sitting there. Right, wondering when Spider-Man's going to come by. Yeah. No, I just think there's a lot of nightmare in this, and I think he taps into it because it's obviously...

I think what I'm thinking about during especially the flashback sequences, this is a day or three in the life of this kid, and by all indications, this is normal for him. Because with a dad like that and a mom like that and just being surrounded by a circus... He's going to have this stuff every single day. Maybe not quite as dramatic as the events that unfold, but it's more than just the three or four strange things that happened to him in that three-day period. He's had a lifetime of.

But I think this one's pretty extreme. I mean, I'm sure there's still a lot of kids that grow up and, I mean, it really was a weird way of life for, you know, generations there of, you know, that circus family idea. Right. But I think a lot of it, I mean, you get used to the weird stuff and everything becomes routine, where this seemed very horrific. Yeah.

I mean, even if you're not in the circus, your dad screwing around and your mom trying to kill your dad is going to mess you up. Well, there's a cool documentary, Circo, I don't know if you've seen it. seen it it's um spanish i think it's spanish documentary but um it just follows the lives of these families within the traveling circus and it's just pretty fascinating to watch just the parents training the children to follow in their footsteps or you know they might choose a different path but it's still within the circus and stuff like that i mean and for them i mean what we kind of consider you know fantastic it's just sort of you know hum drum and every day for them so. I think that part you would get used to, but this has a lot of other horrible elements going on.

Come on! Come on! Come on! Don't be afraid! Come on!

You can't do anything! Read my lips, you stupid deaf mute! Come on! Don't just stand there! I should have left you in the poorhouse when your mother died.

Now practice. I mean, I feel like in the way of Jodorowsky stuff, this is his most accessible, what I've seen. Yeah, everything I've heard about this, this is probably of the weird, because then he does his other later stuff really nobody likes, and it's not as crazy and psychedelic as this. I haven't seen anything post-Santa Santa. Yeah, I was trying to look, because he's only done like six features, and then the last two, I think, nobody really likes.

I've got the box set that they put out, so I mean, I've seen... four of his others apart from this. Yeah, I think Tusk was like his kid's movie, if you can imagine his attempting to do a kid's movie. And whatever that last. One was, he got to work with real name actors around here, but again, it was like paying. Nobody liked it.

But it was again, it was the studio at that point stepping in because they were putting money in and real actors, they were like. Yeah, you can't do that nonsense. We'll pull the plug right out of this. And actually, I think what inspired that to be made was his films sort of got rediscovered when they were re-released. Finally.

Yeah, and just a lot of Hollywood actors in that sort of discovered him. They were like, oh, this guy's awesome. We should throw some money at him and be in it. Which still might come around. I mean, he's still out there and supposedly making his autobiography.

Yeah. Which is still supposed to be like a weird surreal movie, which that tells you he's just kind of like that. He's a decent actor. I mean, he does really well, at least in Holy Mountain. I mean, you've seen Holy Mountain.

Yeah, it was years ago, but I loved it. Yeah, I really like it too. That's actually. Was he like the Jesus character? No, he was.

I'm trying to think. The Alchemist, I think, is what they gave the characters. Oh, yeah, that he meets at the top of the. That basically the nine, or the people representing the nine planets in the solar system all go to. Oh, yeah.

That's Jodorowsky. I need to rewatch that. I forgot about that whole thing. Stylistically, that's an amazing thing. And I love the fact that when it comes to Holy Mountain, you break off.

It becomes like. It's almost like an anthology of short films when it gives you the background on each character. He builds up so much towards all of this revelation thing in the grand scheme of things, it's almost a mockery of the audience. Like, no, this isn't important at all. Did you like the revelation at the end?

Without spoiling it for all these people. That was surprising. It was something to where at first I was like, I don't know, but it actually came to really grow on me for that. Yeah. You don't see that coming.

And actually, I think it would be kind of odd to see him try to end it some other way, because I felt like it was almost him trying to say to the audience, it's like you've sat here and you've watched for an hour and a half this movie about these characters that are trying to find the meaning of life, and you in turn have become invested, and whatever I told you the meaning of life is, you would sit here and try to evaluate your own life in that sense, like, Oh, I wonder if that applies to me. And instead, he just backs up the camera to where you see that you're on a set and breaks the fourth wall. And it's like, no, this is a movie. There's nothing to learn here. Thank you, Alan, for your.

Strength. No, no, I am thanking you. I literally am thanking you. By the time you get to that point, you're going to be so lost in everything you've seen prior, you're not going to remember a. Word I said.

When you watch the people in gas masks dancing with the naked elderly individuals, and you see all the pigs crucified, you're not going to remember what I'm talking about. Well, that's kind of the ending of this movie, too, right? Oh, by the way, everything that came before it wasn't real, except for the first 20 minutes. Not like Holy Mountain. Sort of.

In a different way. I think this. Earns that, though. Yeah, I think he does. You're allowed to say, oh yeah, he's that messed up.

You're seeing it from a very specific perspective. Not so much like everything didn't happen, but like everything happened, but it's just been perceived in a totally. I'm just bummed that there wasn't the most loyal little person ever. I was like, he's so non-judgmental. He just rides it out.

He even cranks the concertina. That's beautiful. I need somebody to run my music. Hit shuffle on this while I go kill this guy. I mentioned this With, I guess, Alan last night, did this work as almost like a super villain origin story to you?

The whole time with him as a young man, I just felt like, oh, that's Bruce Wayne. It's the Joker as a kid. Yeah, I mean, he just seems like this is how a super villain could be created. Yeah, you watch your parents get killed and. Then everything goes to shit.

Yeah, and just grew up as a magician, circus actor, performer, and then... all of that can be how you would, I mean, that's how you'd get a supervillain, that he would be that crazy. And he's there, you know, watching old films and trying to make himself invisible. I mean, that's mad scientist kind of stuff. His mother did say, I will always be inside you, so he could come back, he could be his own nemesis. Right.

I don't know. I was having fun, maybe it was the alcohol, but I was having fun playing with that in my mind as the whole thing was going on. especially because the world's strongest woman that he faces, you know, you're like, oh, this is the big battle scene between the, you know, the good guy and the bad guy. And I don't know. You could cast the American version. You could cast Arnold Schwarzenegger as I don't know.

I was just playing with that, having fun with those ideas that, yeah, it really does work as a horrible supervillain. I vote for Nathan Fillion. That's fun. Well, if anything, I mean, you've got the same sort of origin story behind him that theoretically you could have behind Norman Bates. Because, I mean, the relationship that goes on is very, very similar.

They even show the chair at. The top of the stairs. Yeah, that was a definite reference. I don't know. I had fun with that stuff.

It's funny, that part didn't really click with me. Again, maybe because I wasn't seeing it as that until you get to the end and you get that whole reveal. And then it's more of like creating a serial killer. But again, I don't think I was taking that ride the whole way through. I was sort of more watching it from his point of view and watching his weird way of dealing with all this stuff and how overbearing the mom is.

I guess that's a different issue altogether. She is a mom. Towards the end when everybody started disappearing and it was revealing these people were all part of his imagination was anybody else wondering if maybe the deaf mute girl was also not real so I was just kind of waiting for her to disappear too I don't think so. I don't know I don't think so only because I felt like she needed to be real to bring it out of it she had to be real to kind of rescue him from this insanity. And she had her other plot lines too so I didn't really think that she was if she wasn't there who slept on top of a truck I kind of actually wish that we could maybe surmise that maybe she's not real, but she clearly is because of all the other stuff.

There's no way for her to not be. Because he needed her. To be rescued by her love. Maybe he's not real. Maybe none of.

Us are real. Maybe none of us watched the same movie that doesn't play out. Maybe he's a product of her imagination. All reality after Holy Mountain is part of Holy Mountain. It's one never-ending movie.

I'm going to imagine that he's not real and she's actually the main character. I want the little guy to be the main character then. Aladdin. Aladdin should have a spin-off. He did.

Disney made him. Wait, was he doing the voice? I don't think so. They made him Pollard. Just a little bit.

Anybody notice how much animals and how the animals dealt with Disney? membered body parts or dead people. Oh, they are bloodthirsty. Yeah. All of them. Yeah.

It was, and, but, and then, um, when the, the elephant is sent off into the cavern, the humans do the exact, or the, you know, do the exact same thing. And even all the way at the end with, with the, the body that's supposed to be there at the end, it's not even, I guess, necessarily a body. The birds are surrounding that. It just, I don't know. It, uh, I don't know, it was something that carried through.

What's happened? The elephant is dying. Please, don't die. Please. Please.

I'm trying to decide what you guys thought of the whole elephant thing. First of all, just the elephant is dying scene, and then the elephant funeral. I don't know. Aside from that, what was everybody's take on that? Because that seems like a pretty big piece in this weird puzzle, and it's not super self-explanatory.

And not super necessary to the plot, either. No, not really. But obviously to him it was, because, I mean, he built a giant elephant coffin. Right. It was amazing.

I think the only thing about that that I kind of pieced together in my brain is an elephant in a troop that was that small is a huge part of your drawing power. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And if you lost the elephant, you've probably lost a lot of the people coming to your circus. And that may have been the catalyst for why the father was like, screw it, I'm going to go on and sleep with the tattooed ladies because we're going to have to break up anyway.

That funeral. To me, just the funeral in and of itself, I took it as this is just a troupe of people where they're flashy about whatever they do. They are just. There has to be an entertainment element to it. I mean, it's for the objective viewer.

I mean, that would be something almost as fascinating as a performance. I mean, it is an amazing scene. Just the... The clowns crying at the funeral. The black and white American flag.

Oh, and the sequined mourning outfit was my very favorite thing that ever happened. Well, and the tattooed girl that hers is just lit open now. I'm like, oh, she's in mourning. Of course. So, I don't know.

It's a really impressive scene visually. And then when we get to the whole just dumping the body, that was, yeah, the... savages that come running down there it's like again that seems like. A very specific point. That he's trying to make and i don't know if it is just the brutality of. All life at that point that that again we're as bad as the animals i found myself wondering about something really random and because i don't know i was kind of in a weird state of mind i was really tired and everything um but the ramp that they kind of pushed the elephant down it suddenly struck me like why would there be this giant wouldn't ramp there.

And then I couldn't decide if like I was being stupid for wondering about that or if that really was just kind of a weird thing to just have ready and to go. I guess if it was just like the dump, I mean, it was where they were sort of like dumping everything. Maybe they've got the truck backs up on the ramp or something. I don't know. That's the only thing I can think of.

If it is just the general city dump for that part of the world, maybe that's where everybody goes and drops off their elements. I don't know. I mean, It's very strange, but it's a very strange world we're involved in in this movie. I was also kind of bothered by how quickly the tattoo was made on his chest. It was really fast.

There was no cut. It was, hey, we're done already. If we're playing that game, I was really bothered by how bad the tattoo lady's tattoos were. I'm like, she is not tattooed. I was like, really?

I mean, I know in 89 it wasn't quite as over. run with tattooed girls in the world as it is now, but still, you couldn't have searched some actual circus? That was him probably doing it on purpose. I mean, because the father is equally as disgusting. I think he just wanted to make the act of sex disgusting. Again, this being from the point of view of the main character, if you were a kid and you catch your father doing that with somebody or nobody's doing it with somebody, it's going to be sort of surreal and disgusting to you.

Not even that she was unattractive, just that those tattoos looked terrible. They were so fake. I was like, you couldn't find a real tattooed woman? Come on. Did the kid.

He obviously didn't see his mom get the arms cut off. He saw her wheeled out. He didn't see the acid thrown. I can't remember. Was he in the eyesight of his dad killing himself?

Yes, that was the one thing he did see. Yeah, because he was in the trailer. The deaf mute girl saw more, though. Yes. Which is why... she's the more traumatized.

One but that's so many levels that's inception level now where you've got her imagining a character who's imagining a character who is in control of that character even though he doesn't exist that's a lot to deal with not saying that crazier things have happened in this movie. But does anybody see a high tension yes yeah so a little bit yeah okay That left me with a lot of questions, too. That left me pissed off. Yeah, that one left me a little pissed off. It's one that actually I don't remember much about because I saw it in the theater and I remember thinking, okay, this turned to shit and it kind of wiped itself in my memory.

Well, I think it's all really good up to that point, but I think once you throw that switch, everything goes back and it just starts. Falling apart, really. I don't know. Well, yeah. Well, that's in like that post-Sixth Sense era to where every horror movie had to have a twist to it.

Everything is shit. And they didn't even think about how to make it match up with. Yeah, there's no, like, supporting evidence, really, either of these. Like, I would say more so in Sansa Sangre, just because it's so surreal and you can put whatever, like, theory or whatever you want in it. It at least makes some kind of sense.

It makes its own refraction of reality. Yeah, but, like, with High Tension, that just was just a cheap kind of thing that didn't make sense. Especially when you watch it again, you're like, it works perfectly fine without that. I don't know why. It's necessary.

What kind of narcissist is she that she imagines this whole scenario where she saves someone with her love? That's romantic. She has to have something to do when the soldiers are coming in and raping her. Good point. She was fantastic, though.

I loved the outfit with the weird things on the head. I just really liked just looking at her. Not. No, that's okay. You can like that.

It's okay, Alan. Right. She was costumed well and acted well. Well, that's the other... Again....

I guess if it were a normal, a more normal movie, I don't think I would be reaching for everything. But everything seems like it's supposed to be something. Because even her, like, in the, like, massively, like, they go to a lot of work to make her face that white. And on the one hand, she's a mime. But is it also that she's this savior and that she really is this pure soul that is going to come and rescue him?

I don't know. It just seems like that. And then it also ties into the victims once he starts killing people. Mm-hmm. That one is, you have to piece something together out of that.

It's not normal at all, what he's doing. There was that scene right before she went to save him where she painted her face. It was like putting on her superhero mask. That's the thing, that whole second half, she's not like that. But when she goes to save him, she does.

Again, I thought, even the face paint for her kind of has some sort of symbolism. The house isn't. Going to recognize her. He wouldn't have recognized her otherwise. He would have just killed her.

She wouldn't have let that happen. She was letting it happen. Was she just standing there with her arms outstretched? Was she trying to give him a chance to. I think that was part of it.

I think he had to come to that realization on his own. He had to destroy the mother thing of his own free will almost to save her. It's like if he was going to kill her, I think she was going to let it happen because one way or the other. It's just like the only way to save him is to offer myself up to him. Yeah, because to resist is going to be like every other previous victim.

So he's not going to take note of it. Yeah. So that makes her the superhero. It is a superhero origin story. She's the mime.

She's awesome. It's the worst superhero ever. Right. At least she can't have any soliloquies telling you how bad you are. No cheesy catchphrases.

She just puts her hands on your chest and does the eagle thing. Also, did it bother anybody else that he was Phoenix, but that was an American eagle on his chest that his dad. Was tattooing instead of Phoenix? Well, it's also spelled wrong. Did you see the spelling on it?

I was just like, who named this child? That dad? Look at him. Look at that guy. He's disgusting.

But again, I think it's that whole weird motion that she makes is that whole freeing yourself. Again, it's that grand scheme of how the story goes. I'm assuming as to why he's Phoenix. That thing that she does at the. End when she sort of freed him from his imprisonment of his mother, blah, blah.

It's all very structured to be that. I don't know. I give him credit for just having the audacity to do some of the stuff that he does. In general, I guess, but specifically in this movie, I ended up liking it a lot. More than I expected.

But I like, too, where the moments where you're like, well, this is just silliness and surreality, like the strong woman, but then that's leading to someplace really beautiful where he has purposefully tried to find the strongest woman ever so that she'll be able to resist him and break his arms and end it all. And that was such a lovely moment where you think that it's going someplace really silly, but it goes someplace really profound. Exactly. All of his movies, I feel like, have that thing, too, where there's something like you have to just get past some annoyance. The annoying bits.

They're just like, this is just kind of. But once you wait it out and see the movie to the end, you kind of see. What he pulled off in the long run. You're like, oh, okay. Because I felt that way with Holy Mountain.

Particularly the first half of Holy Mountain. You're just like, what is this movie doing? It is trying a bit because you go like 40 minutes before anybody says a line of dialogue. Yeah. And the way it's edited, the action...

I don't know. It's hard to tell how the action is moving at a lot of points because it's just edited so sporadically. It's all over the place. But then it kind of goes into the second half, and the character. Did.

I say Holy Mountain? I meant El Topo. Excuse me. El Topo, the cowboy one where Orozco plays El Topo. See, El Topo for me is a little...

I find that just slow. Yeah, exactly. And then it goes into this second half where he basically just totally... The main character, El Topo, just, like, has this kind of interesting... He changes into this kind of, like, humorous, like, you know, lighthearted Buddha.

And it's just kind of cool, like, how you kind of, like... It's like, oh, I didn't know they were going to go this direction with this kind of, you know, bloodthirsty gunslinger. Like, now he's this kind of cool dude. And he has... Again, he has a little person friend.

And it makes it fun. Yeah. And by the end of the movie, you're kind of like... And you look in the movie at, like, the whole thing, like... You step back and you're like, okay, that was really interesting because that went to some places I would have never expected.

And that's kind of what I got from the opening. I just wish El Topo had the visual sense that he picked up later on post Holy Mountain. I see what you mean because Holy Mountain definitely felt more assured. Was El Topo even, like, it didn't have the big widescreen, did it? I feel like Holy Mountain had more of a panoramic kind of look to it.

Yeah. That was more kind of interesting. That's why I feel like this movie is, and again, I need to go back and watch all of his other stuff, but I feel like what I know of him, this seems like is almost the perfect medium. It is. It's almost like, if you could draw an allegory with another surreal director, David Lynch. this would be, Santa Sangre would be like Lynch's Blue Velvet.

That's what I was going to say. It's surreal, but it still has a plot that you can follow, and it's still open interpretation, especially based upon what exactly is happening. As. Opposed to Lost Highway, when it comes to Lost Highway. I love that movie, but every time I watch it, I go in thinking, okay, now I've got it figured out.

You've got it all figured out. I'm like, damn it, I. I understand less the more I watch it. I think that's why this one kind of grew on me. Initially I went in.

And, again, just knowing what he does and knowing him by reputation, I'm like, it's just going to be a bunch of weird shit for the sake of weird shit. And I think what works so well about this is that it does have such a good structure to it. It does tell the story. And it takes its weird. Little, you know, sometimes he does things just for the sake of being weird, but not much.

Like, even the ones that seem like that sometimes come back around and they do have their purpose. I think that's why this one worked. And even, I mean, it's only been like a day since I watched it. But, like, as the day, like, when I was done, I was like, oh, okay, that was pretty. And, like, as the day went on, I was just like, no, that was pretty impressive, actually, what was going on there.

We could watch Holy Mountain. That could be an Easter show. I was thinking Valentine's Day. Oh, for this one, sorry. For Santa Sangre.

Valentine's Day and then Easter. For Holy Mountain. But Easter would work for... Yeah, Santa Sangre would work for Valentine, yeah. Wow.

I feel like, though, this is. I don't know, like, I only know those other two movies he did before this, but was this the first movie he did that was just, like, set in, like, a specific time? Like, it didn't have... It wasn't... It was just.

Because I just. Holy Mountain and El Topo was just in, like, a surreal version of all times put together. You know what I mean? Like, medieval. He doesn't really.

Cravat i mean that's not really i have seen cravat. Maybe that's why like this one felt the most. Grounded in reality it was just a story he was more concerned with telling a story in this time instead of like you know el topo which was just this mythic western. Mixed most westerns i guess you could almost say are mythical yeah it's the it's the closest equivalent to mythology that we have as americans i mean maybe the prohibition era sort of falls in that realm. Yeah but like how it doesn't it kind of like has like what i'm saying is like you can't like put your finger down history where it is because it's like has the clockwork orange like when is this taking place i feel like santa sangre like it was a set yeah it really was you know specific place yeah.

Yeah because holy mountain i mean it seems like it's a good yeah it's biblical era story, but then all of a sudden, next thing you know, you've got, like, modern elements added into it. So it's just... Yeah. Again, that's what I think works with this. Because I do like.

I like the weird movies. Obviously, we've watched a lot of weird stuff on this show. But I think I like them more when they can really. Do something with it, you know? If you're just being weird for the sake of being weird, sometimes it's effective, but you don't really get anything at the end of it.

Whereas if you can. in the process of being totally weird and these amazing visuals also tell your story and deliver something at the end. I think that's way more impressive. I think this movie does that more than I expected. Going in it. I think you're right.

I think, you know, you can have something that is purposefully surreal, intentionally surreal, and that doesn't always work. But when it's surreal for a purpose, that happens. there's a reason why it looks this way. It's because of how traumatic everything was. It works. I think I would have been turned off if it weren't for that.

The story fits the visuals that you get out of it. Because normally I'm turned off by that if it doesn't have, if it's just, like I said, surrealism. for the sake of being surreal is not. It can be impressive in a visual sense, but again, it's just kind of lacking something. Like an example of something then that you find surreal but don't like? That's dark, though.

Was that even surreal? It tried to be. It sure as hell tried to be. S. Darko?

It was just complicated. That's equal to Donnie Darko. Oh, yeah. S. Darko.

I thought you said S. Cargo. That's a perfectly good example because I think they're almost a good example of both. Donnie Darko is fine in the way it uses it. Of course that's the way it is.

S. Darko is so packed with oh, well, you need to know about this first, and you need to know about what I was thinking about this first. No, I don't. I never saw it because I just heard it was just nonsense. Because in Donnie Darko, Richard Kelly knew what he was going for.

He knew what everything meant. You feel like he knows what everything means. In S. Darko, it's like it was different filmmakers, and like, okay, we don't know what this means, but we're going to put in all the visual tricks that Richard Kelly did, and it just... I think they went the opposite direction.

I think. they knew more than they needed to. Like they were so busy, like, okay, we know people are gonna get his shit because we're not the original director and. We're stealing somebody else's property. So we're gonna do all this homework. Because everything they did within the way that they tell the story makes sense.

It fits within their grand scheme. It's bullshit. But they mapped it all out. And in their mind it works because they were going back and looking at his original movie and then looking at that weird director's cut that he did and like piecing together all the mythology that he had in that movie and then, like, cramming it all over that movie where it barely made sense, and it certainly didn't make sense to anybody who didn't know him. And see, that's what I think works so well about Donnie Darko, is you can tell he has an entire...

I mean, Richard Kelly knows exactly what's happening, why it's happening, the science and the logic and all this, and then what he does is once he's mapped it all out and he's got the storyline, he takes the elements away that the audience doesn't need to understand the plot, because if you... I mean, I haven't seen Es Darko, but it sounds like basically it becomes less about the character and more about the phenomenon. Whereas in Donnie Darko, it's more about the character and not necessarily the phenomenon. And the mechanics of the phenomenon. Everything that gets labeled in Donnie Darko then gets put into play multiple times.

In Es Darko. Yeah, you don't need to understand that. fantastic elements that are happening to them it's. Just kind of cheapens it really i liked it better that first time you didn't know what the hell was going on then later when he did the super director's. Cut yeah i wasn't a fan of that how the director's cut yeah it maps just everything. Out yeah it was just too much.

Even then i found that novel to see once just you got a little bit more background information but yeah i prefer the original on that And I feel like, I mean, I still feel like the original version is like, it has the feel of a horror movie. Definitely. Like, it's like, amount of it is, it feels like horror movie and like all of that was just kind of, it wasn't there in the director's cut and that kind of bummed me out. Because I like, the first one had this kind of danger. I was like, is this a scary movie?

Is it like a sad character? It's like, it was just a weird mixture of things and then the director's cut was just basically like. Yeah, there is very much that sense of dread throughout much of it. one of my favorite images in any movie isn't that to where it's, it's a very, very minor scene, but it's when all the kids are at the bus stop and just a plane goes overhead and like, there's no conversation that is watching overhead. And then that's it. It's like, I love that.

I love the fact that nobody is going to look at planes the same for the rest of their lives because of what's already happened at the beginning. It's just, it's a very poignant moment. I think it's like my favorite in the entire film is that little point. But yeah, I mean, you, Once you start explaining it, and I think it's not so much that the elements aren't there, it's just in the director's cut you're distracted by what he's adding. Yeah.

To where it's like, okay, I'm going to give you pieces of a puzzle now for you to figure out, and suddenly what's going on in the main storyline, you start to shift a little away from it. Jumping ahead to our Donnie Darko episode. Yeah. Which we are supposed to do somewhere down the line. Didn't we already do an Estarko episode?

Yeah, we did. Yeah. That's an entirely different movie. Right, of course. Well, hell, you could just have an original cut versus director's cut episode, because some turn out well.

I mean, director's cut of Alien or Blade Runner, much better than the original. So, on this movie, I did want to get to some of the visuals and see, like, right as we start off, what about him. And the tree? I mean, is there a specific... reasoning for that? I mean, most asylums you go to don't have people climbing the tree and sleeping in a basket.

Maybe him coming down from the tree is him coming to reality. But he has to go back up the tree to. Escape. I mean, it clearly looks like, I mean, Jodorowsky just got actual, not necessarily inmates, but just patients from some sort of hospital somewhere, and I was like, You could not do that in America, I don't imagine. That's almost like hailing back to, and it's very fitting for this, but like back to Todd Browning's Freaks or something.

Well, that's what I was wondering, watching them take them out into the town. Why is it that they're all of this specific condition? Is it just because it makes a lot of people uncomfortable? Because that's kind of what it feels like. It makes.

You sitting at home feel weird, and you're not even sure why sometimes. Or even why he's thrown into the mix with them, too. I think to me is they didn't know what to do with him. And they probably, their scientific community probably said, we have this kid, he's messed up, and they had nowhere to put him. Well, let's just put him there.

They take care of those. One is a genetic thing, the other is a trauma thing. Their government or whoever took him in said, let's just put him there and let's forget about him. That happens all the time, that people aren't treated the way they are supposed to be. Knowing Jodorowsky, it's not too far to assume that he might have been making some social commentary on life.

He obviously was making some plenty of comments about religion anyway but so i. Mean that's pretty characteristic of him yeah all the stuff. I think the tree thing is again almost ties into i mean so much of this is based on the weird animal relationships i think it is almost that same thing with the the savages later that that humans are animals just like it's a very literal version of look he's one shade from being an ape. At this point right i don't know it's especially. Him sleeping in the basket like Then he's just a pet, you know?

It's very. We could make this companion piece with instinct. I'd forgotten all about seeing that at the village back in the day. God. Anthony Hopkins, how far you sank?

How far you sank? He sinks pretty far quite often, actually. Sounds like a euphemism. I like that. I am staying out of it.

So then when they were giving cocaine to the. I wonder if they were really giving them because they really took something. Is that pixie sticks? What is it? Were you all disturbed or laughing?

Because I was laughing. Maybe I'm a bad person, but I thought it was really funny. Again, I think it works on that level. It's already an uncomfortable situation and then that just takes it up several notches. When you're giving them coke...

It's a sequence like when he's going down the street with the With the boombox and like they're dancing. I love that whole sequence. That is fun. I like when he just kind of like clocks that guy and knocks him out and just keeps dancing with the boombox. It's like, whoa, all right, well, you don't mess with the film.

I'm curious how they all, because they were left on their own to go see Robinson Crusoe. And then they apparently like all got back okay in the game. Hospital attendants presumably didn't know that something was wrong. Well, the guy that was supposed to be watching their chaperone was making. Out with the girl.

So he didn't care. He probably rounded them back up, told them not to say anything, and then. You know. He's like, did you have a good time last night? Right, yeah.

Yeah, he didn't want to tell anybody what happened because then he would get drunk. Right, so I'm sure that kind of, not to that level, but I'm sure that stuff happens all the time. Oops, we lost the patient's microphone. As long as we get him back, nobody needs to know about this. There was that, just remember, there was that weird Robinson Crusoe dress.

Yeah, that was. From a shaking head thing. Yeah. That's also kind of surreal. Yeah.

But that point, actually, I was going to go into, too. Like, it's funny that that is also what triggered this whole thing, basically. Like, he had been. Just almost catatonic or at least animalistic up until that point. And it wasn't until he got out and he saw the tattooed woman that it like snapped everything back.

And all of a sudden he sort of came back to reality, but also became psychotic. And it like broke that mother part off in his head. And it was at that point that she appeared to him. She hadn't been there for the last 10 years or however long he would have been locked up. So it was only coming in contact with somebody else, specifically somebody who kind of set that chain.

Whole chain of events into motion. I don't know, I thought that was funny that it was a very specific thing coming in contact with his past that brought him back into this weird state. Had he not gone out there, that probably never would have happened. Happened. All those people wouldn't have gotten killed because he just would have been living in a tree the whole rest.

Of his life. So treatment causes serial killers is what you're saying? They should have kept him locked up? Was that treatment? That's what they thought they were doing.

It's like, oh, well, he's coming down. He's back in real life. We can take him out and get him. He needs to come in contact with people and learn how to kill them. Right.

That's what happened this time. He may have eventually been okay if he hadn't seen the tattooed woman. Well, here's the other thing. Maybe he imagined everyone else. Who's to say that she even was there?

If you're going to say that the girl could have been imagined... Why wasn't she? Maybe he was just waiting for the first woman. Maybe there was just someone who resembled her. And so that was enough to push him over the edge.

Maybe he never saw her, and he just needed some kind of hope. He just saw some woman with a tattoo. I just need a hope. It's going to trigger everything. I'm still kind of chewing over what Greg said earlier, like the surreal for the sake of surreal.

I'm almost sitting here trying to think, Because we were talking about Lynch earlier, and I was saying just Inland Empire for me and the latter half of Mulholland Drive. It's like sheer nonsense, but I love all this other stuff. I'm almost trying to define my own particular boundaries here on when is surreal in film too surreal. Well, I mean, it can still be effective as surreal, but it doesn't always work as a story. Yeah, when it's storytelling.

Though, have you seen The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie? Mm-hmm. I like Louis Reneau's self also in The Phantom of Liberty, and I find that fun. Because I remember I saw Discrete Charm years ago, and I really didn't like it. I mean, it works as a series of vignettes.

It feels like it goes on a little too long, because I'm like, okay, I kind of get it. I get what you're doing. But I still find it fun. I just recently watched, have you ever seen Black Moon? No.

Louis Malle, who did... Elevator to the Gallows and a few other films, it's almost like his version of Alice in Wonderland. And that's one where, based on everything I read about it, I thought I would like it. And it's just, it was all right. But it didn't really, like, grab me, grab me.

And I think for me, when it comes to surreal, almost for the sake of surreal, I think there just has to be a lot of visual elements to it that I like. I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I was just going to basically say, like, you know, El Topo I can't get into, but Holy Mountain I can. And I think it's just almost...

If you're going to be surreal, I like saturation of color. If it is surreal and it is bland, and the same was with Black Moon. It's a very surreal landscape in which this girl is wandering around this farmhouse, but it's like, in color. It's bland. But you watch, like, what was it?

It's Lemora, I think is the name of it. Are you familiar with the film or anyone? It's like Lemora, A Child's Tale or something like that. That's one where it's a similar storyline, but just it's... I think it's just the visual style of the director.

If you like their visual style, you'll get into it. No, I don't know. I think for me it has a lot to do with sincerity and intention, though. I feel like David Lynch understands what David Lynch makes. Somebody needs to.

I feel like if somebody does it, just like, let's throw some crazy stuff out there, then that doesn't ring true and that has nothing you can connect to. But I think with Lynch's stuff, There's something there. We may not be able to access it, but there's some sort of world. Even in Inland Empire, I never get the impression that David Lynch is just spewing. He's just like, I don't know what to put in here.

This is weird. I'm going to throw this in. I feel like there's some of that in Inland Empire. Inland Empire, I will. It's my least favorite of his movies, so maybe that'll...

I don't feel. That way at all. I feel like that's his most confident and fully realized movie. I agree. Some days I watch it and I'm like, this is an impossible masterwork.

I think he can get too deep. He does deep, yeah. What I'm saying is he didn't just not know what he was doing. I waited several years and came back and re-watched it and it didn't really change too much for me. I was like, can't get past that last 20 to 30 minutes.

That's the thing. Some of my favorite movies kind of have that enigmatic quality to it, but the best ones don't feel to me like they're just being weird. There wasn't a determined vision. Say with a lot of Terrence Malick's movies, like The Thin Red Line, a lot of that kind of feels like maybe disjointed and that like but I feel like I'm like even though I may not grasp like even like what you said the last half of Mulholland Drive like the last hour like the thin red line set because it kind of just. It's pretty much everything post theater for me on Mulholland Drive.

Yeah it just feels like yeah it's like I know when I feel that like I don't I don't quite grasp or I don't like I'm not cool with what's going on on screen but I can also see that yeah the director totally knows what he was doing in his own head But then I can also feel like I'm not cool with what's on screen. And the director totally doesn't know what the fuck is going on either. This whole movie is just a piece of shit that doesn't deserve... But those are the really bad ones. I think you kind of knew, but it felt rushed to me.

I think you could almost draw an analogy between Mulholland Drive and the entire series of Twin Peaks. Because Mulholland Drive, it was supposed to have been... Twin Peaks does feel like that movie. It was supposed to have been a serial or another Twin Peaks. And it was the first two episodes to where he just connected the first two episodes and then just tacked on an ending.

And I felt like that was the case with Twin Peaks. It's like when you watch that final episode of Twin Peaks, they spend so much time just rushing and trying to wrap up everything they've opened up. I felt it was the same way in All on Drive. No, the last one. The last five or six episodes are like, we've got to hurry up and finish this.

And that's the way I felt like the last half of Mulholland Drive was. It was like, we've got to hurry up and wrap up this. I feel like that's what makes it so important. Because before that, Lynch is making us... He gives us the impression that we're supposed to be following this by logic.

Like, what is this all leading up to? Like, this is okay. This is a plot point. And then he's just like, he cuts the leg from all of it. Like, up, under from the first half of the movie.

And he's like, no. This movie is really about how it makes you... It's just going for the feel of a nightmare, sort of. He puts weird shit that doesn't seem to make sense logically anymore, but he knows that he doesn't want it to make sense logically. He's conscious of that.

I think that's being nice. I think. Well, maybe it's because I love... I love this movie. That's the thing.

It's hard to defend Holland Drive because, like I said, it's such a weird... I can't tell. You what's going on. Eraserhead, Wild at Heart, all of it, but it's just that one. But I think, like I was saying, I think you can get too deep.

I think you get to a point where I don't doubt you as an artist and you as the artist knowing that you have a grand scheme and you have meaning behind. Everything, but if the viewers. Aren't taking any of that, it's almost a wasted effort I mean, there should at least be something. Maybe not everything. Maybe you want a little mystery you still have to, or you want people to be able to talk about what this means or what that, but they need to be able to take something, or at least a good amount of something that you get, a structure.

Or something that you at least, something you want out of this, you know, especially a movie. See, the genius to me of Mulholland Drive, and like, In terms of just watching a movie, I prefer Blue Velvet. Like, I would rather, like, Blue Velvet as you watch it is a better movie than The Holland Drive. But the genius to me, like, and I think this is intentional, of The Holland Drive is the movie that's in your head after you see it is a masterpiece. And, like, what you're watching is just kind of like programming that masterpiece.

And that's kind of how I feel about that movie. You're going to love it. It totally works if you look at it that way. And I think that's a genius. I honestly think that's what he was doing.

And, like, that's how I kind of. it's not like I don't re-watch Mulholland Drive over and over and over like as much as I would watch like Blue. Velvet I haven't seen it since it came out and I remember seeing it in the theater and thinking that there was a fairly cut and dry story that was edited in a really interesting way and there was like a reality side and a dream side I feel like we need a Mulholland Drive. Episode just so I can watch it again I remember watching. It and thinking that it all fit yeah we. Could con over in on that because he gets pretty heated on that.

Movie I am totally up for that so Even. If you go back to his Eraserhead, that is definitely one of his more surreal films, but to me, there's a clear message and a consistency from beginning to end. There is, but again, it almost. He piles a lot of stuff on there, and a lot of it is Lynch weird for the sake of being weird. And I still like it.

Again, I appreciate him as a weirdo artist, but again, it's not like Blue Velvet. Blue Velvet is a well-structured story, and Razorhead has got some themes that it's working with, but it's more of a. Piece of art. See, I've always just taken a Razorhead as you are watching somebody's dream. You're watching the dream of somebody who just found out that his girlfriend is pregnant, and this is the nightmare he's having.

It's kind of like Possession. That movie I was just saying. That, I think, could almost work as a companion piece because I feel like it's almost in the same vein, but there you're watching the nightmare of a man who just found out that his wife is cheating on him or his girlfriend is cheating on him. Too thematically. Well, I mean, it's just you're seeing whoever she's having an affair with as a monster, which, I mean, there is definitely a film that gets pretty damn surreal.

It was a really interesting watching Eraserhead re-watching Eraserhead after having a child it was a completely different thing it's like I suddenly felt sympathetic. Towards this crying lizard thing and I wanted to the thing needs a hug you know one of my friends went through a divorce like a decade ago and Just out of nowhere, he was just like, never get married. Have you seen Eraserhead? I was like, yeah. You seen American Beauty?

Yeah. Well, marriage is... That's totally what it's like. God, that is bleak. Those are documentaries.

That is ridiculously bleak. I've had. This was within a week. I had two people who were actually in... I know a lot of people in very.

Unfulfilling marriages, more than likely, and weird situations. But I had two people that I at least had relatively decent, you know, I had faith that they were actually in a committed, loving relationship, and they had kids, and they had a nice family. And within a week, two of those people in that group told me, don't ever get married. Whatever you do, don't get married, don't have kids. And I was just like, Jesus Christ.

Even from the good side, I'm not getting any good stories. I have the best, I think, the best possible setup for a family. I mean, I'm completely happy, but When our first child, those first three months, she cried nonstop. Every night at 6 o'clock she would cry. It was this colicky.

She was frustrated that she couldn't communicate, I think, because once she was able to start communicating, it all stopped. But it was, we just about got kicked out of our apartment because it was six solid hours of crying every night. It was horrific. And it was sleep-deprived. on our part, I was barely, I was crawling around, just getting through the day. And it was like this almost vision quest hallucination moments where you were half asleep, half awake.

And it can be like that for a while. Our second child, because people are always like, what do you, you know, why are you having such trouble? Why are you having, you know, these problems with your child? And it really was. And, and with our second child who had endlessly more health related issues and hospitals, hospitalization and problems, but there was no problems.

He was just other than that, it was a perfect baby. And we got sleep and we were You know, everything was okay, but those first three months, like, aged me seven. Eight years. That's what happened. That's where your hair went.

No, it was gone long before that. But, yeah, and so I can understand that, especially in a racer. I think if I went back now, I'd probably go, oh, I get it. You know, I could see that. But I do think there was a lot of it that was, hey, look what I can do.

Especially at that point in his career. That's the part that I don't like. And, you know, I brought this up with Alan before. We talked about it on the show, and I don't know how many other people have seen it, but almost two– Two separate movies to me is in Beyond the Black Rainbow. There's the beginning and the end that fit really well as almost a surreal movie.

But there's a middle section, a 10-minute sequence that is just almost like Lynch made it. I'm not going to ruin anything for you, but it doesn't fit to me. It doesn't work for me. It seems forced and surreal. I love it.

I know, and it's great that it clicked with you, but everything after that when she's escaping is beautiful. It's well-paced, and I've even heard people that didn't like it. I loved the rest of it. I should never have stopped, but that one 10-minute sequence just about ruined that movie for me. It's a flashback, though.

I don't know. It was interesting. I found it very interesting. It's funny because I think of surreal and just people not being able to get through it. When we had Tree of Life at Baxter, I can't...

I mean, that summer, any manager who was working, that was the number one movie that people were walking out of. And it was the sequence to where it went back into the creation of the universe. And for me, when I'm watching them, it's like, I can't look away. This is gorgeous. The music was.

But... It's just people were walking out, and the dinosaur is showing compassion. She's like, I like art films. I like art films, but can I get my money. Back on this?

I think that was marketed wrong anyway, though. There was a whole lot of Brad Pitt in that trailer. And it was just made to look like there was a lot more of a story going on. They pulled an Inglourious Basterds on it. Exactly.

I didn't feel cheated by the Tree of Life trailer, actually. I felt okay when I watched it. Again, I think if you're okay with the end result, you don't mind. And also, I think if you're familiar with Malick prior and you know his sense of storytelling, you're like, okay, I see something like this. This is going to be a more avant-garde piece for him, whereas the average person might not.

They're in trouble. It was you who were talking about people who went to see Melancholia. Yeah. This is weird. Or was that, no, it was me.

It was when I was seeing it at the village. Yeah. Cause the moment that the credits rolled, some guy just got up and just already piece of shit and walked out. I have several people like, you know, they hear the story about a planet's going to crash into earth. So they go expecting to see, Like a Roland Emmerich film.

I like that deep impact. I want to see this. And then it's like a wedding party for the first time. This is not awesome at all. They think they've gone into the wrong movie.

For Sutherland's in it. It's like, I've got to stop this planet. I was holding a fake phone in my ear for you people listening in. I will. But I was just cracking up at, oh, I've just gone blank on the character act.

Udo Kier's wedding planner character throughout that. Oh, I remember that. It's like constant, just like fidgety. It's like you could tell he just wanted to grab and re-ring everything and everybody in that room at any given time. And even change who the parents were.

Yeah. To me, there was so much fun. I mean, that almost kind of gets into other surreal directors. I mean, Lars von Trier just in general. Or Greenaway.

Or Greenaway, Peter Greenaway. I kind of link Trier and Greenaway together in my head for some reason. I was even thinking Cronenberg earlier, too. Not so much with a lot of his later stuff, but, I mean, like, you know, the videodrome through, like, Naked Lunch era. Though, I mean, you could talk about the surreal nature of Naked Lunch, but that's almost just in Burroughs' lap as it is.

Cronenberg's. Just in the way of other, like, surreal imagery did you. See cosmopolis we were talking about this before you see what cosmopolis yes and. I need to go back and re-watch it no yes i. Have the ticket to prove it's one to where the pace threw me off at first it took me about half an hour to get into the crawl of it i was like oh, the pace is going to move at the same.

Rate as the limo. Stop here. And just people keep popping in and out. And I'm. Like, okay.

I think I like a lot of what was going on dialogue-wise. I mean, just especially the end dialogue scene between Robert Pattinson's character and– Paul Giamatti. Paul Giamatti. I like that whole sequence between the two of them. And the scene in the barbershop I like a lot.

There's a lot of cool dialogue to it. It's one, every now and then I'll watch a movie to where it's a little bit different than what I expected and it throws me off at first. And so typically that's a movie to where I recognize just knowing how I am as a viewer. I go back and watch it knowing... what the pace is going to be like, and I'll totally be into it. But the pace threw me off a bit at first.

Yeah, I loved it. I found that first half hour challenging. I don't know if it was so much the pace as it was so stylized that you don't know. If Rob Pattinson is making. A choice with this performance or if he's just sucking so hard.

And then you realize, okay. No, this is purposeful and this is going so well. And that's what the whole, it's like the whole thing, it's like, okay, we're focused on all this banal bullshit. Then I'm like, oh, never mind. That's the social commentary of it all.

Now I fucking get it. But at first I was like, okay, is something going to happen? I find myself really interested in his post-Twilight acting career because I find I kind of actually like him in Cosmopolis. I liked him in this movie, yeah. I thought he was actually good.

I'm curious to see what he'll do. He's going to pull out Leonardo DiCaprio. We're just going to kind of watch him slowly become a more and more solid actor. But it's going to take several moves for him to get to Like, he's always, like, say, DiCaprio, for instance, was always, oh, he was always solid, you know what I mean? Like, even in the 90s, he wasn't, like, a great actor or anything, but he worked, you know, it worked.

He was nominated for an Oscar in the 90s, though. That's the funny thing. That's the funny thing. Yeah, that's kind of what got him famous was Gilbert Grave. But maybe it's because of the way he was cast as, like, kind.

Of the leading man and stuff. But, like, not until, like, for me, at least, like, say the departed and aviator and like Shutter Island. Like, the later... Even Aviator, I had trouble buying him. Yeah, even Aviator, but, like, Shutter Island, like, that was the first movie where I was like, he's really kind of elevated himself a little bit.

And then after seeing Django Unchained, I'm like, okay, he's, like, cemented. I liked him in Gangs of New York, though. I liked him in Gangs of. New York better than I did in Aviator. He did a lot of those streaming.

Oh, that's the thing. Like, he was given. He's good at acting really light, just angry, confused, and. Stabbing someone and screaming. You know what I mean?

And he did a lot of that in that movie, and he was fine. He was very emotional. He learned that on Growing Pains. Screaming and stabbing people. He was good in.

Catch Me If You Can. He was good in Catch Me If You Can. That's the thing. Yeah, that was it, really. He was really, yeah.

I forgot about that. But yeah, Aviator, it was one. Was he nominated for an Oscar for that? He was. That's what I thought.

I can't remember. I remember thinking there was somebody that year that was so much more deserving, and I can't remember, God, who it was at the time. I thought the movie overall was decent, but even then, it just didn't click. It's one of my. A lot of people think it's...

It's my least favorite Scorsese. We're talking Scorsese movies. Yeah, I think just as an actor, we've... Well. If we're going to loosely connect it like Brian did earlier, we're talking about directors with distinct styles.

Yeah, it's a small circle. I'm actually bringing that back around. So, you doubted me. What I brought up earlier was the whole style of that director with his weird quirkiness. Does it detract from the characters?

Does it not give you. What you need from the characters? Does it take away from the overall story? I actually wanted to ask the same thing with this movie and this. Director, or maybe his career overall.

Does his weird and surreal nature take away from the overall story? Does the, I got to do this because it looks weird, take away from what would be a good character building moment? And I think it just depends on the plot. In Santa Sangre, there's less of that than there is in his other films. Because in his other films, I mean, there are characters in there where it's like, That's a funny little vignette, but it does absolutely nothing whatsoever to advance the plot.

Or it does nothing to add to this character's background or anything. It's just there. This one I don't think it does really. But there are still moments where it does that. It is one of the tightest of his films.

I don't think there's much that's superfluous about it. I was trying to come up with the whole, like, nothing was, but, like, then I actually was trying to see if there was anything mentioned, and they said, like, the removing the ear thing. That's just a guy that does that. Like, he came up to him and said, hey, I can do this, and he went, all right, let's put you in the movie. Like, there is, they talk to him.

They're like, there is no meaning behind it. There's no reason. But it does play into the deaf-mute thing, too. Mm-hmm. But that visual thing, that's characteristic of this movie.

There's this whole scene in Holy Mountain that has nothing to do with anything where this old man takes out his eye and gives it to this little girl. Yeah, that's what the ear reminded me of. It's just there. It's just there. I think there's still. moments when he's doing that, when he's just kind of, again, he's just kind of showing off.

He's like, I can be weird because I want to. But at the same time, it shows you, I'm sorry, I can't. No, go ahead. I'll be brief. I'll just say, to me, it's him just establishing this exists in a slight refraction of reality, and it's those little moments like that that do just, I don't know.

I was just going to say, I can't blame him. Like, if a guy had come up and said, I can pull. Off my ear, and he hadn't put that in the movie, like, that would have been the crime. What would have happened? That guy might have just.

All reviews of the movie, like, when it came out, it's like, it's pretty good, but you know what it needed? Some new. Right. That would really. Or if we'd have been sitting here and heard that they had put that on the cutting board...

Yeah, but that was an option that they walked away from. Like, why wouldn't you put that in? That would be. That was the right thing to do. Work for Tarantino, I guess.

Slightly different versions, but yeah. But again, I don't think there's a ton in that. I think even the more weird scenes, some of them are my favorite. One of my favorite scenes is the cemetery scene. It's fucking creepy.

With all of them coming out. Yeah, with all the bodies coming out and the horse. It's weird, but it's gorgeous. And it's creepy and effective. And it does... fit in the plot.

It's not like it's just thrown in there for the hell of it. Everything is very specific about that. And it works to this movie's. Advantage, I think. I thought that scene was great because we didn't realize the magnitude of the crimes until that scene happened.

I thought it was just a few until. Yeah. And they're like, oh man, he's been at this a while. It's just shit. I really liked, and this is not part of any of this, I really liked the invisible man scene.

I liked all of that, that he's got it on in the background. Every part of that was a lot of fun to me. And even funnier that his mother was making fun of him because he didn't. His experiment didn't work. I really liked that.

And then that he has to go up and knit for her. I don't know. But again, all that, I mean, it's so weird. Even his production and the story of man, like, it's all very weird in, like, just a production way. Like, it really is, like, something you would probably see out there in some weird second-rate, like, circus.

You know, that scene I read in the credits, it said that that was an act that Marceau had done, is that creation of man was, that was, I mean, they gave him credit for it because that was a rip-off. That's his little performance that they do in it. And it was interesting once, because again, as it started revealing what was going on, I was like, so wait, he was. Just up there doing the mother? So I'm glad that they worked in that weird puppet so it would at least explain to you.

No, he was still doing a very... you know elaborate act yeah and. It is the kind of act once again you would see and you'd be like oh okay. How does the mouth move though that just really. Bothered me and then i didn't want to answer right no i i was like okay it had to have been a foot or something. Otherwise it gets into a really creepy what am i doing to my mom thing which.

She did sort of have that relationship yeah yeah. I mean, it's always kind of drawn as a parallel to Psycho. You feel like, I mean, we mentioned. Or just the general, like, you know, Oedipus sort of. I think there's a lot of tone to it, but specifics, I don't feel like, you know, it's even taking much from it other than the weird mother-son kill-for-me relationship.

Kind of thing. I think without the chair at the top of the stairs rocking, I think that would have been... You couldn't draw comparisons. You'd be like, oh, it's just An Oedipus thing. But when you see the rocking chair and you've just come from a scene that is mimicking an old horror movie, then you have to assume that that was meant to be.

Absolutely. And I've heard it tied to The Hands of Orlok. that like silent movie where like. He gets his hands cut off and then they replace it which this story has been done a million times too where they replace it with someone else's hands and then like those hands try to kill people so it's sort of a weird mixture between the two of those sort of with a lot of other weird stuff. Thrown in yeah Yeah, it was definitely a wear-up cycle and played with it. And that's what I really liked about the reveal when they pull off the sheet from the bed, because you're expecting when the girl originally does it and she doesn't look appalled, she just sort of has that, I don't know how you describe that.

I was like, what did she just see? Why is she jumping away? What's happening? And then when they pull it up and you see the doll, you're like, oh, this is brilliant. It's equally creepy, but not as decayed.

Again, another thing that's puppets and clowns, And cults, they're all scary things. Yeah. Birds. Did you see The Last Circus? No.

Oh. No. Yeah. Have you seen the trailer for it? Do you know what this is?

Mm-mm. Okay. I'm just going to not say anything, and tonight you'll find the trailer for The Last Circus on your wall. It's on Netflix, so you can watch the movie, but you'll enjoy. The trailer tonight.

And once again, the kids will be screaming, what's wrong with Dad? That's normal. Oh, okay. My son's got Shono's Strange Circus, too. It was down there.

We should have a creepy circus movie night. We have to. Right. That's... Big Top Peewee.

Oh! They forgot creepy circus movies. Actually. Why don't we just take all of this equipment into the Ringling Brothers thing coming up here, or the Cozair here in like a month, and just review the performance live like we're watching a movie and just see if somebody says anything to us. Probably not.

Because you were talking about doing more events earlier. Nobody wants to be involved with us. Come on. And we'll get involved with them. I'm sorry, but I'm just not investing any interest in that clown down there.

Where is Greg? He doesn't seem committed. I thought there was a clown. Phone it in. It's that guy.

That dude falls off and falls on our table. Whoa! That was crazy. Seen it. Oh, yeah.

Is there anything else we need to wrap up this movie? Cotton candy now. It's not that circus. Barbecue elephant. Just the beginning.

Yeah. Exactly. One animal. I'm trying to think. Of other weird things.

Sorry. We'll keep forgetting Lucy's here. I'm going to eat some animals that are in danger. Hi, Lucy. I don't know.

I think, again, I ended up liking it a lot more than I expected, but I kind of have a lot of respect for him now, which I didn't know what to think of it before, but. Now I think. Again, looking at what he does and his attitude towards this, he really is like a true artist. He doesn't go into it just to make a movie. He has a very specific, not just point of view, but just a vision that he's trying to get out there.

I think this may be the tightest version of it, but just in general. Again, even if I don't like his other stuff as much story-wise, I think I just sort of respect what he's trying to do. I think he kind of does fall into that kind of short list of directors who I think like, you know, oh, if I were to see like a weird avant-garde like art display in a museum and their movie was being looped through a projector on a wall, like over and over, I'd be like, that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like.

Like, Hodorovsky or maybe, like... Fellini or. Something like that. Fellini or, like, maybe even, like, someone like Nicholas Rogue or some of the, like, just... I mean, I feel like they're really in it for the art of it and not necessarily making a movie about, you know, something you want to.

It's. I mean, they're always conscious of making a good work of art instead of just making an entertaining movie. Even though it does, I mean, you know, both examples, like, Hodorovsky's movies and... Fellini like I think those were as good entertainments also, but like the director you can tell they're just They're the artists you know quote-unquote first and foremost again. There's a fine line there, too Yeah, it is a very fun like I mean you could argue about that you know I all day.

I've seen many a performance art is what they'll call it or a installation or a piece or just in the art world and I'll just be like I Don't know that you're going for anything other than weird right now you know? And it definitely comes into play in these kind of movies, too. But, yeah, it's a fine line on what is, and again, that's all the holder kind of thing. But sometimes, I swear, I think they're just trying to see what they. Can get away with.

I work at our friendly neighborhood contemporary art museum slash hotel with the Red Penguins. I've been there four years, and I have seen some stuff. That's some of the ones I was thinking of, actually, I've seen there. One of the directors, too, Ron Frick, because you just saw Samsara. I mean, That in and of itself is like a clear vision, too.

That's coming out on DVD on Tuesday, right? It's coming out not soon enough day is what it is. I want it now, but yes. You can't wait two days. I can't.

You've got to see it. I want to ground it up into a powder and mash it in my eyes. Take it to a bunch of kids, you know. Maybe snort it. I'm going to ground up a Blu-ray of your movie and then snort it and go see it in theaters.

Come on. I wonder if a director would take that as a compliment. I'm sure they would be so proud. Lynch probably would. Oh, yeah.

No, he'd put it in his coffee. Another cup of coffee! Mix it with coffee. Barbie would like a snort. Yes, she would.

All right. Well, I'd say that rounds this one out. Otherwise, that about does it. We will return next week. Same geek time, same geek beat.

Thanks, fools. Bye. Bye. We'll be right back. Y me quedé con los restos Desde ese mente.

Oh, you're still recording. You know we do a show. I forget that sometimes. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.

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