217: The Phenomenon of Celebrity

Hi, my name is Jennifer Lawrence. And you're listening to Movie Meltdown. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. It's showtime, folks.

Enjoy the show. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power. Don't you have some kind of a line that you keep open for emergencies or for celebrities? I'm both. I'm a celebrity in an emergency.

What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian and I'm going to be getting you back into the conversation that we started in the last episode. Yes, this is a continuation from last week's session, so you should have already listened to the previous episode. If not, go back and listen to episode 216, not only because it features the beginning of this week's discussion, but it also features our interview with Jennifer Lawrence. So, if you haven't heard it, seriously, go check it out.

Other than that, I did want to mention, did you know that in addition to our conversations about movies on here, we also feature written reviews on the Movie Meltdown website? Well, we do, and I've encouraged the gang here to branch out and write some reviews when they feel the inspiration. So we'll regularly be adding reviews on both new and old titles, and they're going to be titles that we haven't covered on the show. This just gives us a chance to expand things and cover more movies. There's a lot of titles out there, and this way we can add a whole new level to what Movie Meltdown brings you.

So go to moviemeltdown.com, and it will be right there on the homepage. You'll see the latest review there, and if you scroll down, you'll see the previous post. So stop by the website and see what our crew has to say about some different movies than what you've heard about on the show. We're just branching out into new mediums. Also, another reminder to get ready for our big fundraiser that we'll be launching in the next couple of weeks.

I just got confirmation today to add some extra gifts to the rewards program, so there will be a lot of cool stuff coming to those of you who help support the show. So just putting it out there, it's coming very soon. And for a quick geek activity, this week I went to check out a production at the Alley Theater, which you will actually be hearing us recording in in just a few minutes. Now, I'm not normally a theater type of guy, but when Sterling described what they were doing, well, it did sound like something that was a little more in my taste. I saw their Serial to Stage series, where they recreate live versions of two classic space opera serials.

They did a live recreation of Commander Cody and one of Flash Gordon, and it was a very fun and relaxed performance. After a while, you begin to feel less like you're sitting at a boring play and more like you're hanging out with your friends who are acting very silly. But true to form, many of those old serials were pretty silly as well. So it's a good pairing. With this, the way that they do it.

And if you're in the area, stop by and check it out. It was a lot of fun. So with that, we'll take a break and get on with the episode. He's saying every one of us. Flash.

He's a miracle. Flash. Flash. We'll find out what's going to happen next in today's story in just a few moments. But right now, I'm going to show you how easy it is to treat yourself to a nice hot cup of Ovaltine.

Just heat a cup of milk. Stir in three heaping teaspoons of Ovaltine. One, two, three, and it's ready to drink. And what a drink, anytime, but best of all at breakfast, hot Ovaltine. It's good and good for you because Ovaltine supplies so many of the important vitamins and minerals children need.

So what's the way to start the day? Hot Ovaltine, hot Ovaltine, that's the way to start the day. You'll really go for Ovaltine's sweet, rich, chocolatey flavor. So ask your mom to start your day the Ovaltine way. Now, back to today's adventure.

Zombies of the Stratosphere. Out of the air and from under the sea, these weird zombies from Mars swarm in to annihilate the Earth. What? What are you? I am Marix, a native of the planet Mars.

Perhaps not quite a human being by earthly standards. The orbit of our planet Mars is so far from the Sun that climatic and atmospheric conditions there are much inferior to those on Earth. We can construct an H-bomb which, when detonated at the correct time and position, will alter the rotation of a planet enough to change its orbit to any extent we desire. You propose to move Mars into the same orbit as the Earth? Exactly.

Their diabolical scheme seems sure of success until Larry Martin is called upon. And so, Larry Martin, we direct you to use all means at your command to rid the Earth of these horrible zombies. We're informed that another of their rockets is now approaching Earth. Is there time to intercept it with your rocket? No, at the rate that ship is traveling, it'll be out of radar range before we can get off the ground.

Unless it lands. Then ground defense will handle it, Bob. Unless Mr. Steele thinks we can help. Yes, Larry, I do.

It's the duty of my department to handle all matters menacing world security. And you're one of my executives. I realize that your work has usually been in the interplanetary zone. In this case, I think you ought to take charge, both on land and in the air. Very well.

The public brings you Weird Adventure in 12 explosive, suspense-filled episodes. Zombies of the Stratosphere. Well, I love the movies. Welcome to the biggest movie event of the year. We're going to have a great night, ladies and gentlemen.

And the Oscar goes to. Nick Ledger. Thank you so much. Ladies and. Gentlemen, prepare yourselves.

It's time for the Movie Meltdown Oscar Mayer Party. With all the glitz, glamour, pork products, and vicious commentary you've come to know and love, the Academy Awards will never be the same. Bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good. Coming soon to this feed.

Don't miss it. Oscar Meltdown. It's going to be artery-clocking good. If you're enjoying this podcast, perhaps you'd be interested in GleeCast. You watch your tone, young lady.

Hey, we're not forcing you to download the internet's best, or at least most booze-filled podcast about Glee. You want to be me. Who doesn't, Sue? But we know we can't be. Instead, Erica and Emily.

Uh, Emily and Erica. Who am I? I just don't know anymore. I'd love to stay in chat, but I got a satellite interview. Sorry, we get off topic a lot.

The point is, listen to Glee Cast following every new episode of Glee. Plus our sporadic bonus content on some of the greatest bad cinema that incorporates musical theater or sweet dance moves. I'm going to ask you to smell your armpits. The right or the left? I don't know.

That's the smell of failure. Failure smells like dove? Mine has a pleasant lady speed stick scent. Kind of makes me think of candy canes. Your resentment is delicious.

Visit gleecast.podomatic.com or search for us in the iTunes store. That's Glee Cast with a K, part of the palaver.com family. That's P-A-L-A-V-R dot com. Boy, the only thing missing from this place is a couple dozen bodies limed and rotting in shallow graves under the floorboards. We're working on that.

Hey guys, look what I've got. Check out these awesome earbuds I'm using right now. Look at that. That's wood right there. That's actual wood.

Why would you use wood to make technology? Because it's like they're steampunk. Is steampunk really wood? I thought it was more of a brass thing. Well, you got to work the wood in to hold the brass together.

These are the fancy high-end steampunk versions with a mic built in, mind you. But yeah, where would I get these you wonder? Tweaked Audio. Way to pitch. You want to hear more, you say?

TweakedAudio.com. Hey, they are available in three styles and seven colors. and they sound pretty damn good i kind of forgot because i hadn't had my old pair in a while and i was using the knockoff crappy ones i bought at the store and i i got these and put them in i was like oh shit that's right these are actually really good so they are professional quality earbuds mind you and um you know noise reducing and compatible with your iPods and most phones, unless you have a dumb phone. You should really get a smart phone, not a dumb phone. Just keep a bunch on hand for gifts when you don't know what the perfect thing is. Around the holidays, I was putting that word out.

I was like, you know, go ahead and stock up. They're good for Hanukkah. They're good for Christmas. Yeah, for a while there, we were thinking at the alley, we'd have a giant stack of iPads and be like, hey guys, thanks for coming down. I'm sorry you didn't want to see the show, but here, take a free iPad.

Yeah. That's a pretty good promo, actually. If it said, like, the alley on the back, you'd be like, hey, look at this. The Tommy Fresh style of promotions. For all you Parks and Rec fans out there.

He's on to something, though. If you give someone a free iPad, they're far more likely to look upon you favorably. I'm not wearing his old clothes, though. That's all I have to say. That's a little weird.

So, anyway, the... The basic rundown here, if you need yourself some earbuds, tweakedaudio.com. And if you go there, there's a deal. There's a Meltdown deal. If you go, there's a discount code, and you put in Meltdown, you get 33% off and free shipping.

That's all I'm saying. You guys are excited, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. As well you should be.

A little more passion, guys. Look, he's directing. Crap. Told me not to do that. It's like it's.

A theater or something. Tweet.io.com. Use the Meltdown code. That's all I'm saying. From ancient Genesis to the modern screen, the name written in blood, Ego.

The last of the prehistoric giants sees his first girl, Noah. Hear Ego talk, the ancient language of love used at the beginning of time. Hi, I'm Richard Keel, and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. If I was in a celebrity, would you be so nice to me? If I didn't have cheese like every day, would you still want to be with me?

If I couldn't buy you diamond rings and all those other expensive things, would you be so into me? If I was in a celebrity... I've been. A little thinking about the things that satisfy you. It's making me wonder about the things.

That you do see in me. I hate the way you like to say your man's love. Baby, what's the deal? I thought you wanted me for me. Say what you mean.

Mean what you say. Pushing me away. Cause I ain't got no time to play. So I say, listen, listen, listen. Okay, so we are back with a continuation of The Grind.

Again, this session is more or less about celebrity. Fred initially asked, why are some people just actors while others seem to be groomed for stardom? That's the basic idea of the topic. Now, where we go from there? Well, you'll hear that in a minute.

And to remind you, the cast on hand is myself, Fred, Lucy... and the recently inducted, or possibly abducted with our show, the new recruits, both Phillip and Sterling, are sitting in. So, with that, on with the discussion. I don't know. I mean, if we're sticking with the classic actors, I think it probably. Come on, let's rag on stars.

That's the whole point of this question. I used all those big words, but really. I just wanted to talk smack. All those people who are foisted on us, and it's like they just won't relent. Well, I think at this point it's a dividing line of real...

Celebrity versus fake celebrity, because that's equally as, I mean, that is shoved down your throat more than anything at this point, because I don't consider any of those people to be celebrities in my mind. I don't have a reason to know who a Kardashian is, so why should I really? Yeah, I actually don't know who the Kardashians are. Anybody that's a reality star, I don't count as a star. I mean, I've heard of them, but I don't know why.

Well, it's that classic question in South Park when, like, the Paris Hilton episode came on, and was it Wendy? It's Stan's little girlfriend's name or whatever, and she's like, okay, what does she do? And they're like, oh, well, she's like this total bitch, blah, blah, blah. She's like, yeah, but what does she do? Like, what's her thing?

Like, why is she famous? And she's like, oh, well, she's got all this money. What does she do? Dude. Yeah, he keeps coming back, you know.

At least Donald Trump has a terrible haircut. You can identify something. Well, at least he used to have a job. Yeah, he did something at one time that people, you know, recognized and knew about, and then they gave him a show. Yeah, it wasn't the other way around.

I was like, oh, give him a show and see if they do anything. Mm-hmm. I really couldn't have answered that question for years about the Kardashians. Like, when everybody started talking, I had not a clue. I still don't.

I had to ask Misty what they did. I was like, why should I know who they are? And sadly, she researched it and figured it out, because I don't think she paid attention to them either. But she at least had to answer the question. That, what the hell is their thing?

And it turns out their thing is screwing people and taping it. and marrying somebody already famous. That's really the only tie-in she has to fame, is family and sex. But I don't know. I mean, to me, I think that's very different. And then you also get a totally different level of stardom for being a legit celebrity, if you want to call them that, who goes horribly down the wrong path, Lindsay Lohan.

So, I don't know. To me, it's kind of that same thing as the Gary Busey. She gets way more press for being crazy and for being... kind of stupid and certainly making stupid choices than she does for any acting she's done in the last decade, which is pretty minimal at this point. So I don't know. I mean, that's a very different thing.

Do you, do you break those up into separate categories or is it all everybody shoved in your face? I don't know, but I feel the shoving for some reason. I, my mind wandered and I started thinking of those celebrities who were on match game. Do you remember those guys? And they were just celebrities and you never had any idea what any of them did except for Richard Dawson because he was on Hogan's Heroes.

You knew that. And then the rest of them, I don't know. Known for their substantial bit parts in the latest sitcom. No, usually they were celebrities because they were on the Magic Game. Well, Charles Nelson Reilly, I had to look up because I'd always known who he was and never knew why.

But apparently he did a lot of Broadway. Rip Taylor was that for me. I was like, that guy is entertaining as hell. Why do I know who he is? He's just a guy.

And the other thing that was weird about him is he was in that famous circus fire that everybody died in and he survived it. Charles Nelson Reilly was in the big American, what was it, the Hartford fire? When he was like 13, he was in this giant circus fire that I think your favorite movie sort of referenced. What was that? Water for Elephants?

Oh, now you're just baiting me. This is going to turn into a Reese Witherspoon hate fest, isn't it? That's where this is going. I heard that. That could work.

I heard that fire was intense. I could not do it. I wish I was there. I could not do it. Alright, go on with your hatred towards Reese.

For hating on Reese Witherspoon? No, I'm not. How was it you described that movie? It was like a couple of hours of Boredom Relieved by Cruelty to Animals. Yeah.

I think it might have been Teenium, but you're right up there. Teenium Relieved by Cruelty to Animals. And I had forgotten that was the movie because I'd never heard of the book or anything when I saw it. And I forgot it was the movie that you had warned us all about and I watched it and just bitched. All the way through it.

Which, my wife had read the book, and I think she liked the book. The book was really good. And I just totally fucked up the movie for her. Because I was just like, oh, right. That makes sense.

What the fuck is his fiancée going to take the test with him? Why is she there? And then he quit school because after his parents died, who spent all their money putting him through school, he said he didn't see the point. How can you not see the fucking point? Who wrote this?

What? So I was just like a raging asshole all through the movie. I'm so glad I didn't see that movie. Oh, yeah. It's hard for Robert Pattinson vehicle to entice me, though.

See if you can both. Get about it. I'll see that. Okay. Yeah, I think Lynn really liked the book, but somewhere, if you watch, I think in the crowd scene, you see a young Charles Nelson Reilly.

Fleeing from the park. Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, I guess that is kind of the equivalent of that now. People that are celebrities for being celebrities, there are several of them that would always end up on The Tonight Show, and I'd be like, who the hell is Charlene Tilton?

Why do I have to sit here and listen to whatever she's doing this week? There are so many people that would just become regulars in a certain aspect of Hollywood, and you'd be like, well, why the hell? Why do I know who this is? So I guess that's still going on. And now it's just a new, way cheaper way to do it.

And now all you have to do is have a webcam and your own YouTube show. Low self-esteem. Some idiot with a podcast. I mean, everybody falls into showbiz. Who are these people?

Where do they come from? What are they doing here? Like, remember Chris O'Donnell? Hmm. Isn't it weird just to remember somebody like that?

I would just take a moment. He was like, yeah, everything was like moving. And then what happened? I don't know. He disappeared, didn't he?

I would almost say he was gone altogether if he didn't have his new cop show. Oh, he has a cop show? That's right. It's N-C-I-S-Y-D-S-U-V or something. L.A.

It's the L.A. One because he's hanging out with LL Cool J. You know that. which we all kind of wish we were hanging out with still exists he's a working actor once again he went for a dry spell but now he's got a cbs paycheck coming at him. Dry spell by the way was him on he was spending a lot of time on broadway actually that's that's weirdly enough what he's playing i know right like so that's where yeah he vanished into theater as they say for a while and uh he Actually, it was around the same time that Jason Biggs and Alicia Silverstone also dropped out. They all dropped out kind of collectively and went to work in theater.

Yeah, she was in that Batman movie too. I was going to say, two of the three Batman and Robin, just saying. Jason Biggs was too in a very minor role where he was humping a pie, but they cut it out in the last version. What play was this? Agnes of God, you say?

I think that was Streetcar Named Desire. Yeah, the uncensored version. Uh-huh. Stella, I got a pie. Watch this!

American Pie Streetcar. But yeah, I mean, there's always actors that sort of seem like they're on the right track, and then it totally derails, so. Remember that period where Julia Roberts was in all those Lifetime movie kinds of things that were all about bad husbands? Yeah. And then she started making a lot more.

And they all had the same color poster. It's like they were making a little franchise of them. And then they gave her an Oscar, and she hasn't looked bad. Yeah. She doesn't really have to do those anymore, now does she?

I wonder if we took all the Julia Roberts posters over the years and just sort of lined them up. How many facial changes would we be able to identify from poster to poster to poster? You're saying she doesn't move from the neck down? She's the Yogi Bear. Actually, in the Pretty Woman poster, it wasn't her from the neck down.

It wasn't her in the movie either. Oh, wow. They just stuck her head on somebody. That's right. Just about everything in that performance.

Kind of like with Keira Knightley in the King Arthur poster. They totally CG'd her body for that because, yeah, she has a C cup or something like that in the poster. That's when she flipped out and she basically said, well, I guess I can't be in an American movie without at least a C cup. It's like, please alter the posters again. And they were like, sorry, Kira.

Welcome to America. That's like when the studio told Margaret Cho that she was too heavy to play herself. On her own show. They did. She kept, yeah, she said they used to give her all these notes and it were like, yeah, we'd really like it if you'd lose 10 pounds.

Dude, I gotta say, so would I, but. You know. That must be the epitome of like existential like, despair confrontation like a group of people telling you you're too fat to play yourself we. Will recast you get Alicia Silverstone on the phone right. Now we just don't think you're really there you know we don't think you have that you-ness that we need.

They don't recast the parents they just bring in Alicia mom? I don't know that'd be entertaining actually probably more than the show became there's a reason they wrapped that show up so fast but oh man i don't know where else do we want to go with i think we should observe like five minutes of just silence the chris o'donnell's career. Chris o'donnell's career i don't know what there's a lot of like batman related stuff like look at george clooney how. Did he survive that his career went downhill after batman. Yeah who who was joking about that I think it was on 30 Rock.

The two actors were joking about, like, oh, we need to have our next, like, roles lined up after, you know, when you quit TV, you have to have something like gay, dumb Batman. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, they were talking about that with Tracy Morgan's career. Yeah. That's pretty accurate.

Yeah, it is. You forget what that costume looked like. Yeah, you can't fight it. You can't forget what George Clooney looked like with rubber nipples. I think what it is, is if you watch Batman, because I remember even at the time watching it going, he really doesn't look like he knows what the hell is going on.

Like every scene, he's just kind of. so what, what are we, what are we doing? Like it all sort of circulated. Like Robin's like, come on, let's go. And he's like, all right. But you have to give him credit because he at least admitted that he ruined those movies.

He's like, I'm not going to be anymore. It's my fault. Sorry. He did not ruin those movies. Well, no, there's a lot of, there's a.

Lot of, a lot of discussion as to how, what Joel Schumacher did to Batman. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everyone has pointed the finger at Joel Schumacher, but actually I've even heard like, stories of how much control he didn't have over it. Granted, he definitely took it down the wrong road, but like producers were so overly, like once it got to the point where they had Burton out of the way and they knew they could like throw Schumacher out if they had to.

And it was all like, it's bad when Schumacher's calling people out for doing stuff really cheesy, but like they came to him with this list of, all right, here's all these characters that we already have toys for at McDonald's. You better work them into your movie. And he's like, shit. now what am i gonna do yeah no i i. Don't know i tend to i'm a little bit on joel schumacher's side as far as those movies go because i think that one of the things that i can say though is that we we always had this thing about batman we wanted to be darker and kind of grittier and everything and i think there there is a universe somewhere where joel schumacher's sense of camp would have actually been pretty good for batman and like all and like his sense of like the high art gothic stuff that he threw in there and things like that like it could have worked uh i think if.

We stuck with adam west because that was the camp batman we all want really i don't know it's one of those. Joel schumacher made adam west batman movies that would have been awesome that would have been pretty sweet some days. You just can't get rid of a. Bomb i don't know i didn't like I liked Michael Keaton as. A chance for Batman.

They hated him at the time, but it's funny looking back now. It's like, out of that run, he's definitely the best Batman. There was something about him that seemed kind of crazy. Like, you could kind of buy it. And I didn't like the most recent Batman really at all because, I don't know, Batman has done nothing for eight years and he's a guy who walks with a cane.

But I. Then I saw, like, the more recent Spider-Man. I was like, yeah, that's what I'm looking for, because aren't these stories really essentially fantasies for young guys? Isn't that what they are? I mean, okay, maybe...

I don't know, the new Batman is a fantasy for a drunk Ron Swanson, as far as I can tell. I don't know who it appeals to. But Spider-Man... was like a young guy's fantasy. He does skateboard shit. You know, it makes sense to me.

But the Batman has gone off the rails. I don't know what Batman is anymore. Yeah, I was not thrilled with the new Spider-Man. I actually have not seen the new Spider-Man. Have you seen the Tobey one?

It's kind of like that one only not. So good okay well i liked the i like the toby ones okay i think that of course the much much hated third one yeah yeah. Well it's horrible but again that was all studio like that's when you even had the original director still there and his hands were so tied at that point he was like you know what fuck it i'm walking away like i'm leaving my own franchise because they already had him planned to do four and five and he was like i'm out of here this is horrible. Well, yeah, you know the story behind that. I mean, with Spider-Man 4 and everything, you'll have talked about it.

Like, yeah. Maybe not at great length, so go ahead. Oh, no, it's just simply that he basically came to the studio and said, guys, that third movie was terrible. Yeah. Like, I directed it.

It was terrible, and it was y'all's fault. So here's the idea. I'm going to bake. I directed it, and it was terrible, and it was y'all's fault. This sounds like Sam.

He probably did. And again, I'm paraphrasing here, because obviously they didn't see me there. You were hiding. Yeah, waiting. Gollum-like behind a chair.

Of course, it's always Gollum-like. They hear me when I talk to myself. But breathing heavily. Schmeagol. And he said, so here's what I'm going to do.

I'm going to take some money, mostly my money that I've put together for this film i'm gonna make four i'm gonna make the ending of the trilogy that i want to make and we can just go go forward with that and the studio said no we can't have you do that like we're we're happy with three as it is it's fine uh we don't want you making another movie to to mess up and so he said well Either you let me do it or I'm walking away. Uh, and they said no. And he walked, he walked away from the franchise. I'd heard that. Cause that's when like a week later they were like reboot.

Yep. We're starting over. That's why they, that's why they decided to reboot it. It was so that they could create a Spider-Man property that they didn't have to pay Sam Raimi for. Um, and yeah, I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty crazy, but you know, I'm, I'm going to try not to hold that against the movie when I go into see it.

Like I said, like, A lot of people, like you and other people, told me that The Amazing Spider-Man is actually quite good. I liked it. Yeah, I don't know. I know I was disappointed with The Dark Knight Rises, but in this era of epic trilogies that we've been in this last decade or so, it's hardly a single third movie that I have been happy with. I mean, heck, in the run of most epic trilogies over the last decade, I can say that the best one relative to the trilogy it concluded was maybe Episode III.

You know, definitely the best of that run, but exactly. Exactly. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's like, wow, only, only movie that wasn't a letdown conclusion. And it had the neural.

So, you know, is that including return of the King? Oh, no, actually, Return of the King would be the other one. Because I can't watch the second one again. It's just a nap for three hours. I can't.

It's so much walking. What was the joke I heard recently? At one point, Gandalf's hat blows off and they chase it for two movies. That is such a great joke. I just watched the fake trailer for it where they were like, it involves walking and strolling and hiking.

I was like, yes, that's the entire trilogy. Which is fine for, like, two movies, but that third one in the middle. Is too much for me. I had some hardcore deja vu, though, when I was watching The Hobbit, and it was like, oh, right, this is why I forgot about Peter Jackson's movies. They end multiple times.

Like, it never stops ending, because I didn't know where in the book they were going to stop the movie. I didn't know, like, okay, what is a good cutoff point for The Hobbit? Like, there really isn't one. And so when I started feeling, because I turn off my phone, so I have no sense of time when I'm trapped in this theater watching a Peter Jackson movie. And I was like, that was the biggest mistake I could have ever made.

I'm just sitting here. I'm like watching this movie. And eventually, like, you know, they're in the mountain and there's the and there are the goblins all around. I'm like, OK, they're going to end it. OK, here.

OK, here. And we're done. Must have been 15 or 20 minutes later. I was like, all right, final oration. Final moment of characters looking longingly into one another's eyes.

No, no, it still kept going. So, yeah. Damn you, Peter Jackson. He... Man, somebody who kind of went off the rails.

I mean, he's still visually an amazing director, but he needs somebody to come in and put a leash on him and be like, no, go back to... You used to know how to edit. You really did. Like. Your early movies weren't three hours.

Dead Alive is damn near punchy. It moves with a quickness and grace. His old ones would get in and out, and you're fun, and yeah, I mean, everything since then. I mean, that's the main problem with King Kong is about 45 minutes of it needs to be taken out easily. I really wanted to like that movie, too.

It's not bad if you edit out all the crap you don't need. Speaking of leashes, back to the celebrity question. Who? Yeah. Um.

I was just thinking, George Clooney... Sorry, I just feel like I just. You forgot to yell at George Clooney a minute ago. By the way, George Clooney. No, I think that the reason why he got away with Batman was because sort of the publicity machine had so much invested in him.

Like, for a while, he really was sort of this golden boy who was just going to sort of maybe sort of save... I mean, every magazine cover was about him. He was selling so many magazines. So when he sort of started taking on these roles, they were like, oh, no, that didn't work. Oh, God, you might not be talented.

Oh, wait, what's this you're doing with Michelle. Pfeiffer in One Fine Day? Like, what is happening? Like, they waited for him to get back on track because he was so sellable and because he had the face. And he's so likable.

Yeah. Yeah, he really is. I've tried. I've made the effort to hate him. I can't do it.

You can't do it. I like him. He has genuine star power. The thing about George Clooney, though, is there's a guy... I mean, yeah, he is a big star, but he definitely paid his dues.

I mean, Return of the Killer Tomatoes. Facts of Life. Roseanne. Roseanne. Oh, Roseanne.

Yeah, I'd forgotten about that. Yeah, they are. I think he forgot about it. And then suddenly he gets on ER. And the other ER.

There was ER before the ER. Right, he was on both ERs. And he just exploded. And he's actually good at what he does, though. Well, I remember that period after Batman is, what was it?

After that, he was in Ocean's Eleven. Right? So he had like a franchise not too shortly after that that sort of took off. Salvaged him. But also he went and did a few like sort of quasi-indie-ish films.

Like he started doing some quieter stuff too around that time, which I think also sort of helped sell him is that he kind of, he took a step back and he started making more pet projects and things like that. And that was helpful. Well, I still think, I mean, for the Batman thing, I really think it is because he seemed so not committed. Like, I mean, everybody else in there was just chewing on the scenery and villains almost literally. And he was just kind of like, he's the least memorable character in that whole movie.

Like, you kind of forget Batman's in Batman and Robin. So it's like, at that point, he fades into the background with all these other horrible performances that you're just like, oh yeah, George Clooney was in that, wasn't he? Like, you don't even remember that he was Batman. Yeah. He slipped by by being unmemorable.

Yeah, really. I mean, he is. And that's kind of why he's not a good Batman. But at the same time, it saved his ass. And I think he really like he kind of did go through that rebuilding phase.

And I think it was just when he started getting into directing that people started going, oh, wait, he is serious about this career of his. And that was sort of the turning point where I think he got that like credibility again that people were like, Well, he's willing to not even put himself in this movie, and he's willing to take the side character role in this movie. I don't know. It gave him a little more credibility in the acting world, it seems like. Played the dog in South Park.

That's true. That's what made South Park. Yeah. No, in Batman and Robin, every time it's his line and the camera cuts to him, I always see this look in his eye like, huh? Oh, it's my line?

He's just sort of being signaled by the gaffer or somebody like, go, go, go. No joke. Oh, oh. No, Robin. Sure.

Walk away. Is it lunch yet? Are we done? Can I get out of this? It's very tight.

Definitely. Does anybody know why Michael Keaton quit the franchise? He just walked off, didn't he? No idea. I think he just didn't want to be Batman for the rest of his career.

Which his career, and also with Val Kilmer, pretty much dried up after those roles. Val Kilmer had a lot of other issues, I think. True. Michael Keaton is one of those that is a perfect example of that. He was the biggest name in comedies ever. for that whole run and then they gave it batman and people were like what the hell is that and then he left that and he did like he tried to get born to dramatic roles and the thing is he's a good dramatic actor but nobody will give him that shot and like even now when you see him turn up and stuff you're like oh look at that michael keaton's in this and like he can be good in like those weird corgi roles and he can be good and you know pretty dramatic stuff but like he's still like either they still look at him like he's a comedic actor that doesn't belong there Or, yeah, it's Batman, and what the hell is.

He doing in this? It's funny, though. There's always the assumption that people just want to keep doing the work. True. And maybe sometimes they just don't.

Yeah, like Jake from 16 Candles. He just wanted to go make furniture. You had that example right there. Yeah. Wow.

I mean, my generation of girl, that was always like, wait, why didn't we get another movie with that guy? And then he came back in Mermaids, and then he was like, no, seriously, I'm not that into this. I'm going back to Pennsylvania. Yeah. And who was...

Kelly McGillis did the same thing. She's like. She's back now. Yeah. She took like a 20-year break.

She dropped out. Just don't want to do it. And then there was... Remember that band, The New Radicals? Oh, yeah.

There was that kid who sang like Todd Rundgren. That guy actually... He went on to become a music producer. Yeah. He basically did the New Radicals thing as a way of showing off production techniques.

That was... basically why you made that and then he was like no i don't want to do this yeah well it was just it was just like okay i made that i'm gonna go producing other musicians which is kind of what i wanted to do in the first place not just wear this hat in public and. He's like recording with a producer because whatever i heard every other musician in that band and they were all pretty well established when he brought him in that's why he brought him in but like they all fought because he's like he had such a weird thing that he wanted to do and he was not willing to move on anything so yeah he For the acting tie-in, I believe one of the band members used to be the little girl on Archie Bunker's place.

I heard that and was like, what the hell? I think she paid bass. I don't know. Girls always get stuck playing bass. I don't understand why.

I'm thinking of Daniel Day-Lewis as an example of a guy who, for a while there, he was telling people something like, no, I'm quitting acting. I'm a bricklayer now. I lay bricks. It's what I do. And then he's like, no, no, no.

No more acting. I'm done with that now. I'm going to be a bricklayer. It's what I do. I'm bagging your groceries now.

You're a plastic man. And then suddenly they were like, hey, do you want to play this guy in There Will Be Blood? And he was like, He's like, of course. That's the role I've been preparing for. I'm an oil man.

I'll do it. No, but there are some people that try to take breaks or break away or something like that, and they just can't do it. And then there are the people who... Actually, a great example would be the kid from Finding Forrester. The kid who played opposite Sean Connery in that movie.

He was literally just a casting call kid who showed up and he was just like, oh yeah, I'm doing this to pay my phone bill. this month. And they were like, really? And he was like, yeah, because you're a really great actor. He's like, oh, well, that's great. No, I'm just doing this to pay my phone bill or something.

And afterwards, he hasn't been in any other movies. He paid his phone bill. Yeah. Don't need to now. Multiple phone bills, apparently.

Who was the poet who quit doing poetry? Was it Rimbaud? Rimbaud died. Well, that'll make you stop. The young genius poet who then just like, Like, did trade in Africa for the rest of his life.

It's like. I can't... I don't know. It's weird. It's...

It's an odd phenomenon how many people just quit doing... Especially American writers. Like, there are a lot of, like, one big novel guys. Yeah. The one shot at the great American novel.

Yeah. Yeah. And then there are all those artists who turn their back on their good stuff and then decided, no, I want to be a crappy artist from now on. I like to believe there was a universe where Thomas Kinkade was like a talented, intelligent artist, and then at some point he just had some major life crisis and was like, never mind, all I'm doing is this stuff. Done with it.

Light is easy. Yeah. De Chirico was one of those guys. Yeah. Great surrealist painter and then he said, no, I just want to be an academic.

Fuck all that stuff. It's nonsense. God, it sounds awful. Yeah, then Botticelli. Oh.

Botticelli turned his back on all his great stuff. Yeah, and then you get the opposite, though, too. Gauguin. Yeah. Paul Gauguin.

Actually, there's a great book by Somerset Maugham called The Moon and Sixpence, which is about Gauguin who, like, left his wife and kid when he was a stockbroker yeah it was a stockbroker and he was just like and he's like you know what i'm just gonna leave you guys and they're like what we're gonna do for food he's like and he's like well you're a seamstress you'll get by you'll be fine and he's almost grown like i've done what what i need to do i'm gonna go be a painter and they're like why and he's like well i don't have to answer that to you you're just my wife you know like i'm i'm done with you she's like do you want to get divorced he's like i don't care bye just left yeah yeah it's weird movie tie-in, Rimbaud was played by Leo DiCaprio in the film with...

God, I can't remember the English actor's name, but yeah. Star of the Growing Pains. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, no, this was when he was young, too.

He played young Rimbaud and detailed his homosexual relationship with Paul Valerie. Anyway, very... I did not know about that movie at all until last year. Wasn't Chris O'Donnell Hemingway... What?

You're kidding me. I think we just answered the question what happened to Chris O'Donnell. I think he was Hemingway in some movie. Darring opposite Oscar winner Sandra Bullock. Whoa, a Hemingway movie with Sandra Bullock and Chris O'Donnell.

Figure that out. Once at work this woman came in and when she left I was like, she looks like one of those Hemingway girls. Because she did and I never knew which one was which. The guy there later was like, oh, his daughter. I just thought you had a really vivid imagination.

She looked like the way he described. Yeah, she did look like that girl. I did, actually. I was imagining a girl with short hair, and you actually mean one of the Hemingways. I pictured she had an extra finger, and then I realized it's the cat.

She just had a beard. It was probably when Margot Hemingway, is this when she came to the Derby? Oh, it might have been her. Maybe it actually was. It could have been her.

I was actually, here's a Margot Hemingway story. No one saw this one coming. I was about maybe seven years old, and she came to the Derby, and I remember the women were so mean to her. I remember hearing multiple women on elevators being like, she thinks she's something, but every Kentucky girl is prettier than that one. They were saying horrible things to her.

And anyway, she's the tragic one. She's the one that ultimately killed herself. But I remember she came up to me and started talking to me. And for the rest of the day, we spent the day together. And she was placing bets for me, and she was telling me stories.

And at the time, I didn't know how strange that was. I was just like, this is a really nice lady. But then when she passed, it was like, wow, that's a lady that found a little girl to spend the day with because she was so ill at ease with everyone else around her. That's an amazing story. Yeah.

That's really incredible that that happened to you. Who's the one in Manhattan? Which one was the girl? I think that's Mariel. Mariel.

Yeah. I get so confused. She was so good in that. Oh, wow. That was one of Hemingway's daughters?

The young girl in Manhattan? Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah, that is the name.

She was amazing. Yeah, she was. She continued to have an acting career. But not a good one. Apparently not.

Yeah. After you... Make out with Woody Allen when you're 18. 17, excuse me. Okay, there's a lot of girls that fall into that category.

My question, Lucy, is what were your parents doing? Why were they letting some Hollywood actor stroll up and take off with their child? Maybe I'll spend the rest of today thinking about that. I haven't gotten quite to that. Suddenly it occurs to me I had no idea where my parents were.

They just drove up and left me at the door. I guess they thought I was in good hands. Yeah. Hollywood actor, you come back to and blow. Sorry, I can't imagine this woman as anything but like some eccentric dressed in like, you know, long flowing wrap or something.

It's like, don't worry, I will care for your child. Your parents are like, oh, well, her name's Margo, so. Put her in the carrier with the schnauzer. Just carried you around all day. You want to place a bet?

Well, I mean, here's like Tom Cruise. Okay, he's been good in a lot of things, but you see him. Not consistently. Yeah, I know. That's the thing.

Night and day. That's the thing I don't understand. Literally and figuratively. I think there's this element of fantasy that makes us want to have stars because you have to want to believe in the whole thing because it really doesn't add up. You know, you see like these non-actors, no training, sometimes do just amazing things in movies.

So that's possible. But then you've got people who are like stars who have actually never been good. Just never. That's true. Like Steven Seagal has never been good at anything, and he has a career, and he keeps doing it.

He's got a huge number of movies. Yeah. Gives me hope. So I think there's this element like we want to have stars. We just, that's something, and so we will ignore stars That it doesn't make any sense and that the person is not really good and.

Still buying into the hype. Yeah. Well, I think that's true. I remember reading an article in Psychology Now or Psychology... I remember reading an article at some point and it was talking about sort of the psychological phenomenon of celebrity culture and celebrity worship.

And I guess the idea was that as we've evolved... Like back in the day when we were tribes and there wasn't any media and we didn't leave our land. Like when I was growing up in Bowling Green in the 70s. Like back in Bowling Green. Like you, if you saw.

Greenwood and Mississippi and now. You didn't see faces that you didn't know. So if you saw a face, then that person was part of your tribe. And if it was, so if you see these faces over and over again, you think that there's a part of you that thinks that you know them and that wants to connect to them that thinks that they're part of your social structure. So.

Think that's how you start caring about them and wanting to see them more. Which is a bizarre phenomenon. Why I'm glad little Charles Nelson Reilly got out of that burning circus tent so he could be a part of my life. Sort of like our Olympic gods. For all those stories about all those gods, somebody had to write them. that's the thing.

Somebody had to actually come up with those stories. Weren't they given to us from the gods? Didn't they deliver them unto us? Well, isn't it, isn't it also, I mean, there's a, there's a thing there too about like, you know, when, uh, certain ancient peoples saw, you know, one argument is that ancient people saw natural phenomena and they, they assumed gods were in control of them. And that was an explanation for natural phenomena or something.

Um, Well, there's a way in which movies, aren't they these enormous phenomena in our lives now? They're these spectacles, inevitably, even crappy ones. We find them really remarkable. So believing that we know the people behind making them. believing that we understand like what Tom Cruise is kind of like doesn't that give us a sense a little bit more of a sense of control or understanding of the thing we just experienced to like we're looking at we're like oh like That's Tom Cruise in this movie. Now I understand there was Scientology involved in this film.

In other words, it's no longer just this sort of event that occurs to us. Now we can understand it kind of because we can put it in context a little bit. Well, now we're all kind of tied to it. Because you can, I mean, before you could just sit at home and yammer on and you, I hate this movie or it's great because, but now because of the internet, you can be part of the international community that like loves it or bitches about it or what you do. You actually do feel like you're part of the process.

Some people a little more than others, but I mean, you really do kind of interact within your group of peers and now your group of peers isn't in your tribe anymore. It's across the world and you really can kind of interact with people and now you kind of can interact with celebrities twitter i mean every once in a while someone will decide to answer your message so i mean you literally because of internet are sort of connected to everybody and even people who are famous or semi-famous or fake famous depending on how we've broken it down here but i mean you i don't know there's just a weird connection that you have to everybody now because the internet has sort of changed all the rules yeah I was also going to say it's, uh, you were talking about the, the, the way that we see it within the tribe thing.

I think, especially in this last like hundred, 200 years for America, because, and as once paparazzi came into it, we don't have royalty and we don't have anybody to glamorize and throw this, you know, attention at except Hollywood stars. And that, that has kind of, I mean, you almost need to do that, I guess in some weird way, because people keep doing it no matter where. And like, Back in, you know, how far back you go, it always used to be the royals. And it really, like, when you were a surf out working the land, you would think about how wonderful it was up in the castle. And, like, we got here, and all we had was politics, and we kind of hate politics because it's bullshit.

So we were like, well, we don't have anything else. What else are we supposed to be, you know, starstruck by? And what are we supposed to think, you know, this wonderful life that this other person lives that we don't have because our life sucks? But we'd like to think that somewhere out there, and maybe one day we can get to that point. And I don't know.

I think we almost... need that as a society you need something to look up to or to strive for to some you know there's some weird need in us that the celebrity of some form or another kind. Of fulfills yeah because it's i think for most of us we feel like we can kind of know people but like knowing all the factors that go into something like in politics you know a lot of people don't have the time to read all the legislation that people are discussing, but they feel like they know the person so they can trust them with it. So it simplifies things. So you talk about a movie that thousands of people worked on or were involved in, and a lot of things happened and a lot of accidental factors, but you just go, oh, I know George Clooney.

He'll put it together. He'll make this movie work. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it is, I mean, back to kind of the original part that you brought up.

Like, it does seem like there is a machine at work. A lot of it is the press. But just in general, I think there is something that comes into play that you do have these people that are taken out of nowhere, you know, that may have just turned in one good performance. And then, actually, Jeremy Hunter is in one of those. Like, I mean. he was in like movies and nobody cared about him.

He gets in this one role and this gets him wrecking. And like I said, he got within that year, he got picked up for three of the biggest franchises that have ever existed. You know, it's like he got thrown into the Bourne's legacy. He got thrown into the Marvel world and they handed him the mission impossible. Those are all huge amounts of money that are behind these things.

And they picked this guy and, out of nowhere that somehow somebody saw the workings of the machine and went, this guy, this guy is the one. So, I mean, what is it that him and not like either of those other guys that he hung out with on there, you know, it's like, granted he was more of a lead, but like, why didn't some other random guy in that movie get picked to like be thrust into this machine? And I'm not, again, I'm not, sometimes you can tell sometimes it is just that they're, a little more attractive or that they really are more talented just, you know, as far as acting or whatever. But sometimes it's none of that. Sometimes it really is just sort of like luck of the draw.

You get thrown into the right place in the right time and the machine pulls you through. And next thing you know, you got three franchises. So I don't know. I think there is. Something to that.

There are a lot of actors who have done some like really amazing work and nothing really came of it. Nobody like picked them up. Or maybe they didn't take the deal. They didn't take the pledge. Yeah, whatever the thing.

Whatever they got offered, they were like, that's not what I'm looking for. They didn't join up with Scientology. That's the big issue we're all dancing around, isn't it? What role does Scientology play in this, damn it? Well, actually, I think it plays a lot.

Isn't it? Like there's that acting studio where everybody is like a Scientologist and they all connect with each other. Oh, yeah. And some of the biggest casting agents are Scientologists, and we know they cast from within. I remember when I first moved out to Los Angeles, we got a flyer on our door saying that Jason Lee was going to be in Hollywood doing a Q & A.

You can just go and hang. Out with him. We were like, that sounds awesome. We just moved to Los Angeles and we love Jason Lee. Let's go do that.

And then we looked at it, and the bottom was like, it was at the Scientology Center. And that's how they bring you in. That makes sense. Poor Jason Lee. Yeah, that was so weird.

It was about how to get into the industry, and there were going to be these casting directors there, and they were going to talk to you about Scientology. I think that is part of the machine more than people want to realize, or more than people, maybe people in the rest of the country don't realize how powerful that system is. But again, in the last, you know, Well, since they made up Scientology. Since he wrote Dianetics on a joke. Which apparently occurred here, by the way.

Allegedly. Story goes. But actually, you know, there's a certain logic to that. Because I think if you want to be an actor in, like, big-budget Hollywood movies, they want to know that you're able to believe in absolute bullshit. Yeah.

And commit to it. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you saying that the Church of Scientology is really just an elaborate deception as a vetting process to see just how well you can BS yourself? Yeah.

By the way, just by benefit of this episode, we're now on watch lists, just so. You know that. Yeah, right. We didn't say anything about the woman. We're going to have a couple of people are going to.

Come to your door. You might think that they're Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses. Do not answer the door. They are, in fact, Scientologists. Speaking of which, by the way, does anyone ever watch The Master?

Anyone here ever? I have not seen it. I think you're the only victim. There's a Tina from Bob's Burgers right there. Hey, Tina, relax.

Did you like it? Actually, it's a weird film. It was made by the same guy who did Punch Drunk Love and Paul Thomas Anderson. Short answer is yes, but... damn, that's a weird movie. Like it is a hard movie to say that, like I did not walk out of that movie thinking like, like, wow, I saw a narrative with a beginning and an ending.

Like, you know, like not often I say that to myself in any movie, but granted, like, you know, that was, what did. You always say? To be honest, I've almost already forgotten it. Um, I, I, I just remember being really underwhelmed by it and, um, finding it sort of tedious and, I didn't think that the story was... There was just nothing interesting or new about it for me.

It felt very sort of self-indulgent and elongated. I can definitely say that the main character was self-indulged. Both of the main characters. Our alcoholic genius who can make booze out of anything and L. Ron Hubbard's pastiche.

Yeah, but I don't know. There was something about it, though. Someone suggested, and I liked this about the movie, that the idea is that, well... It's like L. Ron Hubbard made up this thing, and he really enjoyed telling people about it, but then when other people started demanding consistency and demanding that he really fill them in on those secrets, that's when you see the characters start to get kind of nervous and frustrated because you can get the impression almost that, okay, this was fun for me, but now you all expect things of me now, and it's a little frustrating.

I didn't do this so that you could all yell at me over it. over the the bits and pieces yeah i know it says one thing in one book and a different thing in a different book well it's a different book okay just back the fuck. Off i was drunk that night more than the last night yeah leave me alone yeah. That reminds me of a conversation just like that my parents had that it's just burned in my brain and it it like can tell you almost everything about my parents in this one little exchange of conversation my dad said that he thought he said i I think if I wanted to confess to a murder and get away with it, I would write it in the local newspaper's bookcase. Reviews. And my mom said, but why would you confess it?

What would be the point? And I said, you're right, it's a bad idea. This was like all the conversations they had, right? Do they all end with your dad saying, you're. Right, that's a good point.

But that raises so many questions about your dad. He was making a point about the local paper that nobody read the book page and she took it seriously like, what would be the point in confessing it then if you want to get away? I feel like your dad was constantly saying something about like, I'm going to kill someone right now. And she'd be like, but wouldn't that mean the police would catch you? And he's like, You're right.

It's a bad idea. Never mind. Forget the whole thing. Just makes me think every conversation at your house went a little something like that. Yeah.

It was kind of like that. Especially your mom's vague disinterest and your dad's like, you know, like towards the end just being like, ah, yeah. Why do I pay? It's a bad idea. I'm going to go mess with Fred.

He's fine. One day a bunch of us were talking about what is the quintessential smell of your childhood? And for me, it was vodka and typewriter eraser fluid. Ooh, I like that combination. Yeah, and somebody told me, like, somebody said, vodka doesn't have a smell.

And I'm like, no, you get enough of it. You get enough of it. You get a vat of it. And, like, a friend of mine, at his house, they had really nice rugs. And that was the first time, because I work with rugs now, that I noticed, like, wow, those are cool.

And at my house, we didn't have rugs. We just had piles. Of paper everywhere. Just typewriter paper on the floor. Yeah, and we had that green carpeting that's in Toy Story.

Wow. That sculpted green carpet. We still have it. Oh, wow. We still have that stuff in the hallway.

No matter, like, we shave it all off, and it just comes back the next day. We tore it up the next day. Yeah, it's... sheer carpeting i always thought it was weird because both sets of my grandparents had that and i was like did you guys go shopping together. They just got a really big bolt yeah and then there was that other hamburger carpet that was in the house i bought and i had to pull it out and somebody told me later yeah that was like a factory mistake and people bought it like crazy and so they started making it it was just like carpet that looked like hamburger yeah it was like Just red and white and flecked and weird and gray and red and white and red. Sounds horrible.

Yeah. I know, right? It's hideous. Sounds like vomit. It is.

But people bought it like crazy. Oh, God. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, because we had, when I moved into my house, we had every kind of horrific floor covering that has ever been known.

And I just, I had to scrape it all up inch by inch. Wow. Yeah. Do we think we've addressed the question? No, I really don't.

There's something about it that you just can't get at. Just like that carpet. Yeah. It keeps coming back. Celebrities.

Celebrity. It keeps coming back. It's like, it's like the historical theory of the great man that, that Tolstoy wrote about before he turned his back on his stuff. Um, It's that idea we want to think that history is led by great men who lead history. And he wrote War and Peace to show this clockwork of culture and the spirit of the people.

He believed in the spirit of Russia. And you could see how the leaders were really just pawns in the game and they only played their limited role. But no matter how much you beat that idea to death, it just comes back. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, it's like Jason.

Bury it. Because it's the easiest way to think of things. Well, but it's fused, though, with that idea, like the Hegel idea of zeitgeist. You know, we don't just have the idea of, like, great men standing up and changing history now. We also have the idea that, oh, like, you know, Kurt Cobain is the voice of his generation, you know, or John Lennon is expressing the people or something as though, like, all of us are really just waiting for some artistic guy to come forward or girl or whatever, and then start talking on all of our behalf.

So, you know, like sugar man. Sure. Using a current example. Yeah. Yeah.

But, and I think that, I don't know, that's definitely characterizes music in a lot of ways. People are always still talking about what's the next big thing going to be and, and, and debating whether or not this or that person was the big thing or what happened. Um, and I think that actually exists in movies to a degree that people don't recognize either is there's that attitude of like, you know, film stars and everything embodying things that we want to be true about ourselves, not just in the, in the escapist sense, like, Ooh, I wish I had their looks. I wish I had their property. I wish I had whatever, but also in the sense of like, man, like that guy is kind of a super normal version of myself or he, he is an expression of me or something like that.

There's that, that, that projection that occurs from the inside too. Is that the character or the actor? Cause sometimes it ends up being either. Well, but isn't that, but wouldn't that factor into the power of the actor though? Like if, if George Clooney can walk on, walk on into a screen and like play a guy and, Oh, George Clooney doesn't work.

Let me try to think. Whoever it was that played Gollum, I guess, for me. Yeah. If someone can walk in the screen and then, like, do something that you're like, wow, that's me. Like, he's showing me.

And then, like, you know, you're sitting right next to me. He's like, no, no, no. It's in this movie where he's showing me, you know. And we got this guy who can be both of us, you know, who can embody and express the things that we think are unique to our own selves. That's, like, magic.

You know, it's like. The closest thing to magic that I think maybe our belief in psychology will allow. It's funny when you started out talking about, like, you know, who's the next, it made me think of, like, after Tarantino. Mm-hmm. Then people were going, who's the next Tarantino?

Who's the next young, interesting director? It was like the next year. The body wasn't cold yet, and they were like, all right, where's the next one? Yeah, and then following the whole thing about stardom, it's interesting how Tarantino is really the star of Tarantino movies. Oh, definitely.

Not as an actor. It's just that's the guy. More than the characters in the movie, you identify with the director when you watch it. I was going to go see Django, regardless of who was in it. Yeah.

I didn't even. Care and he can have lots of great people in his movies but it's like it's a Tarantino thing. That one for him it's the writing because he just it is you can hear his voice coming through the actors like it may be Samuel L. Jackson but I know those lines and those lines are Quentin Tarantino and. He talks about that it's like you know he has to find somebody who can sell his stuff and Samuel L.

Jackson is one of those people he can depend on but he I remember he talked about the guy in the Hitler movie. The Glorious Bastards? Yeah, the German actor he found. He's awful. The guy came in and he could sell his stuff.

He's amazing. Yeah. But the guy who was going to be the next Tarantino, of course, was the guy who did Boondock Saints. And they decided to make him a king. He sabotaged his own king.

Yeah. Yeah. Troy uh what was it i have a friend of mine who's an aspiring filmmaker and he likes to say what would troy duffy do fuck this up something do the opposite like it's good enough for troy duffy it's. Good enough for me christoph waltz is another great example i mean look how far into his career he was and all it took was an american movie to come along and like he is a bankable hollywood name. No let's be fair all it took was that moment where he removed the giant pipe from his jacket like like that's that's all i really took in that movie was just he was just another villain until that moment.

Now i mean that's the thing i can only imagine all these other movies and all these other directors that were using him for years and they were like oh sure now he becomes huge it's like yeah that's again that was that's the machine like that really is like that hollywood machine that like once it sucks you into it, it's like he, like, he didn't even speak this language. He didn't bother to turn up in any movies here before that. And now, like, he's, you know, he's a pretty high-end actor. He's still not doing a ton of work, but he's turned up in several non-Tarantino movies just in the last few years and probably cashed in a pretty decent paycheck along the way. So he took himself up so many levels on that acting scale just because he fell into the right place at the right time.

Sadly, I think that's a lot of the science behind the machine. Luck and timing. Yeah, I think Michael Cera said he was very aware of, like, there was just a certain point in his career when he didn't get a choice about whether he had a private life anymore or not. And at first, it really upset him, and he was, like, not sure, didn't handle it very well. But because suddenly he couldn't go and do things, like, at some point, he was just known And I remember Michael Stipe talked about that.

He said it was like when R.E.M. did the song Losing My Religion. He said before that, wherever he went, he could always pick out his fans. He could look at people and they know who we are. But he said after that song, it's like, Everybody's grandmother knew who they were, and it just changed everything. They didn't have a particular base that he could identify.

And somebody asked him, do you ever wish you could go back? And he said, oh, no. No, not at all. Look at my house now. I'm the envy of everyone in Athens, Georgia now.

I have the biggest house in Athens, Georgia. It has two bathrooms. Sorry, Athens. Oh, man. Michael Serra, speaking of which, moment of excitement for the new Arrested Development stuff coming out soon.

Moment of uncertainty. Let's be fair. Let's hope. Cautious optimism. Cautious optimism.

We are talking 10 years down the road here. Cautionism. Cautionism. Yes, that's right, ladies and gentlemen. You heard it.

Here on this podcast, we have invented the word costumism. So for all you internet memers out there, it comes back to here. Did you see the internet meme where if you put Katy Perry's face on Paula Deen. She's still Paula Deen. Nothing happens.

That is so disturbing. Yeah, it really is. Especially since it means that at some point Paula Deen looked like Katy Perry. That's even more disturbing. Well, she still does.

It just floats inside her larger face. It's a smaller face within the larger context. Paula Deen's encrusted face. Paula Deen, who turns up unexpectedly and well in the movie Elizabethtown. Oh, really?

Yeah, she just... She's one of the many actors that you'll recognize that just pop up at Elizabethtown. It's funny you'd bring up that movie. Because that movie was so much about, like, you know, failing to make it big. And then sort of in the end, it's unclear what's going on in the end, but it's definitely like doing something smaller and being happier with it.

Yeah, there's a... I know that movie gets a lot of flack, and especially here, for good reason. It was interesting. Anytime you make a movie called Elizabeth Town, you don't film it in Elizabeth Town. Come on, dude.

Cameron, you're from here. Get over it. It's going to piss people off. Also, I'm a little ticked off. It didn't show more at Louisville.

At the same time, though, The weirdest thing happens whenever I watch that movie, it's like its flaws get smaller and its successes get more pronounced in my brain. Like, like I'm more willing to go. Okay. I'm more willing to say okay with the things that doesn't do so well and more enamored of the things that gets right. Like, It's a movie about failure.

Yeah, it is, and it's interesting in a way. Yeah, I mean, Cameron Crowe, apparently he wrote it for life again. It almost seems like it chooses not to be a more successful kind of movie. Yeah, it literally, and you could argue that one of its failings is that it strings together parts of other movies, like it has the romantic comedy section, it has the road trip section, it has various, but no, from beginning to end, it's like, It begins with him failing, and there was actually an ending that was cut out about the shoe becoming popular and him suddenly being successful again, but Cameron Crowe, I think, wisely cut that out, and instead it's just about this guy failing, and it ends towards the end.

He does see the article, which describes him in awful, awful terms, like it says you're a failure and you're not going to be successful, but the film just keeps going with that. It's like, no, we're just going to become okay with this. You failed, you failed, you failed. You failed. Yeah, there are parts of it, I think, that are pretty horrible.

But I still kind of root for the movie. Maybe I should watch it again. It's the weirdest thing, I've got to tell you. But, man, when they're playing, what is it, that Skinner song, and there's the flaming bird coming down in the middle of the reception, there are moments where I'm just like, damn, that's great. Really?

Because when I saw that, I thought that was hilarious. Even though I hate Skinner, maybe that's why I thought it was hilarious, the idea of Skinner destroying a wedding single-handedly. Yeah. I don't know. The wedding scene is like a big set piece.

It's a funeral wake, whatever. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a funeral wake. Yeah. Maybe that's also funny.

Yeah. That's a Freudian thing right there. Well, actually, it's like a running joke in my family because when my kid was little, he was at my niece's wedding, and he said, how long is this funeral going to last? Oh, my God. Just everybody.

Mostly the group. Yeah. I don't know, 40, 50 years. Oh, man, that's profound. Kids so profound and existential at such a young age.

That's your job. Well, okay, maybe that's our advice for all celebrities out there is just become a total failure. Learn from the lesson of Elizabeth. become a failure and be okay. With it yeah but he was a spectacular failure yeah it's not everybody can do that yeah it's easy to be like a run-of-the-mill fail he was a spectacular. Failure billions of dollars of failure.

There's a lot of those in hollywood too yeah. Looking forward to it yeah one of these days these days you too gentle listener will perhaps be a billion dollar failure. Oh um To wind that up, Norm MacDonald, I heard him explain that he's lost all his money like three, maybe four times and just started over. Which makes me think, Norm MacDonald had money? Yeah.

Yeah, right. Isn't that weird? Yeah, I suppose. I guess that's why he's doing those cheesy commercials. I guess they paid him for dirty business or something like that all those years ago.

That was his only check he cashed. He was just Saturday Night Live for fun. Remember our guest Jay Moore? He does such a great Norm MacDonald. It's almost better than Norm MacDonald.

Because you're listening to it and just knowing that it's not Norm MacDonald makes it even funnier. Yeah, it's crazy. Fabulous. Well, I guess that will wrap up the grind for this week. I don't know that we officially came back around and finalized that one, so maybe that just means we need to come back and do it again later.

It's good to know we've got this to come back to. One of those mysteries of the universe we'll never really solve. We would like topics to come from you, but you rarely send them in. If you do, email them to geeksatmoviemeltdown.com and we will try to address them in this roundabout fashion. We'll see how that goes.

Otherwise, thank you to Sterling for letting us hang out here. Do you want to plug the place again? Do you want to hit the website? Yes. Come learn more about the Alley Theater, including seeing our upcoming shows at thealleytheater.org.

And please feel free to come on down to our shows in Butchertown and Louisville, Kentucky. I won't give you our specific address because there are actually about three floating around, but check out The Point. That's with an E at the end. And just come on down to the basement. There are multiple entrances and exits, all of them fire code safety regulated.

So thank you very, very much, and hope to see you soon. Thank you for letting us loiter around the alley, which for us seems kind of fitting, actually. Absolutely, man, whenever you all want to come back. Otherwise, that about does it. We will return next week.

Same geek time, same geek feed. Thanks for listening. A walk and study. In demonology Hey, so glad. You could make it Yeah, now you really made it Hey, so glad you could make it Yeah.

My name is never. What it is My name's forgotten Hey, somebody could make it Yeah, now you really. Made it Hey, the. When I wake up in my makeup, it's too early for that dress. We'll take it fading somewhere in Hollywood.

I'm glad I came here with your. Pound of flesh. No second feeling, cause you're a star now on Cinderella. So much to die for. Hey!

Now you're. When I wake up in my makeup Have you ever felt so. Used up as this? It's all so sugarless Hooker waitress, model actress Don't just go nameless Honey taco, she's full of poison She obliterated everything she kissed Now she's fading somewhere in Hollywood I'm glad I came here when. You're down.

I'm so late to every party now. I've been, since I started my new job here at the theater, I've been working really long days, so I don't know what's going on. Where am I living again? I thought it was here. I just assumed when I came, whenever.

Napping on the floor. Yeah, I told you that, right? Oh, just show up whenever. I'll be there. I was like, I don't think he's going home.

More or less. I actually do have a mattress over there. We call it the fight choreography mat. It's a prop, I swear. I don't sleep here.

Story of my life, yeah. These aren't my things. They're just props. They're all props. Not over there.

It's not my closet. It's wardrobe. Wardrobe. It's all the key phrases you work in. That's all that's important.

That's not the kitchen. That's craft service. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios. with opening music performed by the Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard!