259: Graphic Novels to Movies

Hi, I'm Leah Thompson. You're listening to Movie Meltdown. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. It's showtime, folks.

Enjoy the show. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power. Man, you come right out of a comic book. What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian.

I'm Yoko. And yeah, we've got lots of new people this week, so I will go through the rundown here. From our end, we have Josh, who we've been talking for a while now. This is the first time we've gotten a chance to pin you down for one. But I thought for this one, we'd bring in some artists.

So as you know, Yoko is an artist, but Josh is also. So I guess, say hello. Hello, how's it going? You've been doing art for quite a while now, so you've got a good handle on that end of it. And also, from that conversation we had at your studio for like four hours about movies, you're pretty schooled on movies, too.

So I think, yeah, you'll be just fine. And then we have Cameron. Hello. He claims at least one movie that he's seen, so he's going to go in-depth on that one movie. He's like me.

I haven't actually seen any movies. I just lie to you. You're hit and miss. you're hardcore in this movie and like titanic what is that i'm just like now. It's okay make up plots too remember oh you do yeah. And words and lots of other random stuff but so that that is our uh our end of the deal but we've got many other people here we are coming to you live via digital recording from the destination and uh we've got your crew so i guess uh brian you you own this place uh i guess give people the rundown of who you are and introduce your crew and where we are as well.

My name is Brian Barrow, and I feel like I'm just recapping, but I own the destination. We are located in the Best Buy Shopping Center in St. Matthews. It's 5031 Shelbyville Road. Right behind these crabs.

Right behind these crabs. Thank you. I had a spiel that I just kind of went off on. But we're right across from the Baseball Diamond. and on Tin Pin Lane. And then I'm here with my two employees.

I've got Eric Gravely with me. Hello. And Evan Pack. Hi. We're a comic book store.

Evan's real excited to be here. Comic book store is beautiful. You guys should come in and buy everything. It is a pretty impressive place you've got here. Now, see, they're being paid to say these things, and they're not saying them.

Am I getting paid by the word? Destinations. I'm not making anything. Feel free to do some ads. We'll be glad to run some ads for you.

Well, I think your topic tonight, I'm just going to say we sell every single time we talk about a trade. That's true. That was my thinking. I was just like, we're going to tie in that anyway, so I figure you guys should have at least the comic end of it covered and we'll come at it from the movie end and we'll meet in the middle and battle or whatever we need to do. I think we have more of the movie end covered than the comic end.

I can tell you that I think Eric might have the comic end covered. I don't watch a lot of movies, but I do read a lot of comics. Me and Evan are much more movie related in the pop culture stream of. Things that's true you guys kind of have a little of everything oh it's got a. Good comic book store pop culture oasis yeah that's really what.

You might call it a destination. No no i wouldn't call it that god no that's too on the nose so that we usually do some sort of geek activity of whatever one of us has watched or something for the week but i thought this week because we're sitting in a somewhat comic store. I thought I'd throw it out there. Is there anything comic related that you have read? Maybe you're the man here.

That is a good title recently or a couple of titles. Recently, I mean, Image just put out Black Science a couple months ago and it has only released two issues and they've both been very, very good. Genre? Really hard sci-fi. Did it go for the go-to one there?

I thought you were going to go. That's because I just haven't read the most recent issue, and the other ones are kind of older. I was going with something a little more recent. Okay. But Sheltered is also a great comic.

If anyone is interested in an excellent comic book, speaking of trades, they just released. Yeah, it's put out by Image. Kind of independent, I guess. But yeah, they just put out their first trade, so you can get caught up. It's really good.

Very cool. All right. I also read a comic before. You can't. You just like the pictures.

They're very nice. Okay, which one did you read? My go-to is Old Man Logan. I like to make sure that everybody has read that. It's an amazing trade.

It's based on Wolverine and all the villains take over and team up. It's really it. It's really good, though. It is. It's my go-to.

Evan, what's your go-to? Also Old Man Hulk. I'm always Infinity Gauntlet, but that's going to be made. That's Avengers 3, basically. Just take it old school.

Take it way back. I reread The Sandman for the fifth time. I haven't... I'm reading it for the first time because I'm finally caving in, and I'm really enjoying it. It's my favorite American graphic novel series.

I read it for the first time. I'm 30 now. I was 15, and I read it periodically. This is my favorite. I read it for the fifth time, and I was like, God, I forgot how good this is.

Now I have a grasp on Shakespeare. Yeah. And like high art and literature now at this age. So I was like, I appreciate it even more than I did when I was like a junior. So you're not getting it at all, right?

No, right now, no. We're in a few years. We're really good at them. Yeah. That's something I've noticed in doing this over the years, how it works with movies too, that I'll go back and revisit a movie that I saw 15 years ago.

And I'm like, I'm not, and not only sometimes they kind of suck, And you're like, oh, I used to like this. This is kind of bad. But also like there's other ones that I'll realize I'm also coming from a different place now. And you start to like notice things that you had no idea what it was before. So it's kind of different when you go back and revisit, I guess, any artistic property.

It becomes sort of a different thing the more you go through in your life. Well, there's so many movies that stand the test of time, though. And so many that don't. I know which one you're going for. I can think of one.

If everybody has. Seen Back to the Future. I love those movies. Probably the all-time best movies ever. They are.

I love. I want to just be Marty McFly. I was trying for a while. At this table, Eric just recently watched it. Just recently.

Isn't it good? I really enjoyed it. I love the second one. It was really good. The freaking pizza, that tiny pizza he puts in the oven.

That's what I like. High grade level four. Right? Oh my God. And Crispin Glover's in that movie.

No, he's not in the second one. He's not in the second one. He's not in the second one. Isn't he in the video or something? No.

I know they replaced him because he's batshit crazy, but it was an actor that looked very much. Is he really? Yes, yes. I mean, I'm pretty sure. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, he was in it. They fired him. Oh, he was in it. And they just used like But he wasn't. He was like, he started wrecking.

Oh, no, he's in Willard. I love Crispin Glover so, so much. Like, I will defend him. I ran into him and spoke to him briefly last year. Mr.

Farr? He's a special character. Johnny Clown Clown. Oh, my. He did his.

Present and not his full presentation because he travels around with his films, which are very weird. I know I was going to see it in Lexington. And yeah, that's that's where we were. And we and we he did his thing. He was there for Harry and Stanton Fest.

So he did his talk on working with Harry Dean over the years. And so it was supposed to be focused on that. But he ended up kind of telling all of his stories. So, I mean, he told. he was pretty like that's the thing i've heard he's like super crazy and like don't don't bring up back to the future he'll flip out he doesn't want to talk about that kind of mainstream stuff he wants to talk about his weird obscure he talked about everything like he had no like he was super weird like one-on-one like i think he has a problem with press and that's because press has screwed him over in the years past but like because so like he didn't really i could tell even just doing our little promo thing i was talking to him and like he seemed kind of weirded out and wanted to escape but once he gets up there on stage and is doing his presentation like He's so at home, and he loves dealing with the audience, and he'll take any question.

They ask him back to the future. He laid out a 15-minute story about how the studio screwed him over. He was going to come back and do the second one, and they like screwed him over financially and like lied to him about stuff and like he said never mind and then they worked him in character wise and brought in that other weird actor and like he he wasn't pleased with that but again he wasn't crazy like he very calmly told that story uh there was another thing i think he he was like don't bring this up and like He addressed that, too. Like, everything I thought he was going to be super weird about and flip out, like, he didn't have any problems. Like, he was, as, like, a presentation on stage, he's awesome.

Like, I would say go see him if he comes to your town. Again, one-on-one, he was a peculiar guy. Like, I did not deal with him for very long. Yeah, he seemed very, very awkward, which I guess is not a shock for anybody who's seen Chris Penguin. It's like doing an experimental art that.

He's not even aware of. Oh yeah. So many levels of his artwork and photography and he has a book full of it and he does his films. And that's the thing. He's totally committed to it all.

I don't feel like it's a put on. He is truly invested in his artwork and it's all very real to him. It is real. But a lot of people will put on that weirdness level and I don't think he does that. I think he's very genuine.

He's just kind of a weird guy but he's totally invested in his artwork and like it's not a scam it's not like him pretending to be yeah so he's genuine genuinely sort of crazy he is a little bit crazy but he manages it well. Let's put it that way he's eccentric ah well that's what they say people who've listened to I'm eccentric people who've listened to the show heard the story that I was in shock about because Lucy you've met Lucy. Yoko um She set up that whole thing. She runs the Hating Stanton Fest. Oh, cool.

The deal was she had to get him a gig somewhere else in the neighborhood, in this part of the country anyway, and then he would do that with her. So she got him one in like, I don't remember where it was, but it's basically a four-hour drive from there to Lexington. She had to pick him up and drive with him in the car for four hours. That's not jealous. I am way jealous.

I don't know. That kind of weirded me out. She told me that before it happened. I was just like, Oh, God. I was like, I don't know what to do with that information.

I would have done that for her. I wish I would have known. I would have taken that upon myself. Maybe we can bring him back. We'll see what we can do.

I'd like to do a Movie Meltdown-sponsored Crispin Glover event. We'll see what we can do. We should give Michael J. Fox a show. I don't know how they would do well together at this point.

I'm not sure. Christopher Lloyd. Everybody else seems like they get along. He seems like he's the outcast of the crew, so I'm not sure how that would go with him. I have a crush on Leah Thompson.

Join the club. How the duck. I was excited. Oh, Lord. I barely got through that.

I can't believe I stood there and talked to her. Also a comic book movie. Yeah, that's another one. That movie's horrifying. What's that one movie that was remade a few times and Christopher McGovern was in?

I think the second version. The Rats. The Rats. Ben Willard. No, no, no, no.

They actually did a This American Life episode on it. Yeah, Lucy was talking about that. You know what I'm talking about? It's got Sean Penn. Sean Penn plays one.

And it's this guy that's a, he does like a drag show. At the end. And he lives out, it's like out in Wyoming or Montana. It's really fascinating. It's worth seeing.

The first one's just this anonymous guy. Yeah, it's weird. It's like they did a movie and then they do like a redone version. Of their own movie. And then there's like a really fleshed out.

Version of it later. And then there's like a third one. It's a trilogy in its own weird way. But Sean Penn hates it and won't acknowledge it and will not let it get released. And like they're going back.

How does this happen? How do you get a part of the movie and like, ah, I'm done with it. I'm going to squash it. I'm Sean Penn. When you're Sean Penn, you can do that.

Yes. The Beaver Trilogy. Yes. That's what it is. Huh.

No. The director's Trent Harris, and he's like, it's his baby, and he wants people. So it's one of those things he's like unofficially like, here's where you can get it, guys. Go watch it. Pass it on to your friends.

Like, he knows he'll never officially get it released. He's not going to make money off of it because Sean Penn will not let it happen. But he's put it out there in the unofficial ways and is just like, here, guys, watch my movie because I think it's awesome. So it's, yeah. Interesting.

The Beaver Trilogy. I might have to watch it. That would be an interesting movie to actually do a comic of, you know, go the other route or the other direction. Has it ever had support? Adaptation.

Yeah, there's some adaptations. I take that back. I want to do that, let's see, for every Robin Williams movie ever. I would love to read Patch Adams. No, you wouldn't.

It comes with your own free clown. No, you wouldn't. Oh, Lord. What am I saying? Jeff Goldblum movie ever. you and i did a whole thing about that last time she.

Did a series of artwork based on just. Jeff he's my favorite. You and a lot of other people because they sold so yeah i was. I was like well i didn't know this was right on people love. Some jeff he's also excited yes he is yeah.

He's very peculiar but he seems to have a fan base so yeah. You keep saying you got something for me And something. You call love, but confess. You've been a mess. And where you shouldn't have.

Been a mess. Hi, this is Crispin Glover, and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. Good evening. It's intermission time. Our service is friendly and quick.

You'll find hot dogs, hamburgers, pizza, your favorite candies, hot and cold beverages, and other delicious snacks. So add to your fun of watching the movie. Visit our refreshment stand right now. We're glad to have you with us tonight. We hope you'll come to see us often.

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Hey, this is the ghost of the king of comics, Jack Kirby. When I'm not haunting Stan Lee, I'm listening to my favorite comic book podcast, Double Page Spread. Each week, Wendy Freeman talks to creators like Cullen Bunn, Mark Waid, Evan Dorkin, and more. She is one cool dame who knows a lot about comics. So when I'm at my drawn board in heaven cranking out Fourth World pages, I'm listening to Double Page Spread, available on iTunes, Libsyn, and the Stitcher Network.

This is part. Of your problem, you know. You haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies. And now, on with the show.

I'm a happy, normal guy. Except when you come walking by. Then I feel so miserable. Because it really turns invisible. I make like a man of steel So you won't know how.

Weak I feel. Cause I'm afraid you'll never see My secret true identity It's the life of a comic book hero It's the life of a comic book hero I'll only tell. You I am, just exactly why I'm here I only say if you need love, you have nothing more to give us. Than life All right, I guess we should move on into. This week's topic.

It is time for The Grind. The Grind in this segment we discuss a specific topic or question related to movies and this week's grind topic comes from me i guess i was kind of throwing it out there like i said before it's like we're gonna be here so it'd be you know i wanted to do sort of a comic tie-in but at the same time i feel like there's so many like superhero things out there and everybody already talks about superhero movies so much. So I was like, well, let's kind of go the other route. I mean, we can address some superhero kind of movies that have been made. There's plenty of them, but I was just like, what if we just do the like graphic novel adaptation kind of thing?

So that's, that's where we're going. It is graphic novels turned into movies and, um, we're just going to kind of throw it out there and hit a lot of different topics. Question. Why hasn't, why the last man been a movie yet? Supposedly they keep working on it.

Question two, why hasn't The Sandman been a movie yet? That one I think they know it's... I've heard that for years. The deck is so stacked against that one. It's got such a fan base that I think they feel like they're just going to get killed.

It was pulled off the shelves for a while. I think they just feel like it's not going to live up to anything anybody's built it up to over the years. Question three, is the Preacher series real? Is that really going to happen? Didn't they do No, maybe that was just the bad priest.

They've been saying it. They're going to do a preacher. I think I did hear something. I've heard, yeah. I've heard that, I think, since I read the comic.

Isn't that the answer to everything with comic books? It's happening. It's still working on it. It's in the works. It's in the works.

There's some fan fiction out there. Now with the internet culture where everybody can say anything. I mean, I could get on tonight and tell you there's a preacher coming out. And then she'll look at that and post like, hey, this guy said there's one coming out. Then it builds and then it happens.

Let's do that. I just think that would be so good. Just post it. That actually works the wrong way for us. We'll always bring up like... wouldn't it be horrible if they did a remake of this movie and then like two weeks later we'll read like here's the news and they're gonna.

Remake it that's what I said I said wouldn't it be horrible if Michael Bay. Got more of my children and then I was like well don't you worry and then he got Ninja Turtles the next day and I was like oh no. Have you not heard that he got Voltron and. He got Voltron I said I watch TV. Oh, well.

You're missing us a lot. I'm a total virgin to mass media. And I like keeping it that way. We're easing you in with podcasts. I know.

Yeah, you have to. He's working on He-Man. Working on trying to get He-Man. Dolph Lundgren, no. They're bringing back Dolph Lundgren.

He's roided out even more. If he's on the show, I'd like to come on just a couple times. We'll see what we can do. I just want to get one of those. Machines that he had and see how hard he hit in Rocky 4.

I mean, we could throw it out there, you know, if you want to. Maybe we'll bring him in here and we can do like an arm wrestling challenge. I'll just punch him. That man's a genius, though. If you win, you can punch him.

Whoever wins gets to punch the other one. Good luck. Maybe you'd get. More donations if you gave out prizes like that. I'd be all for that.

If you guys want to get that going, you just get me in touch with Dolph Lundgren. I'm talking about punching Michael Bay. No, I want to punch Michael Bay. Everybody will line up to punch me. That's what I'm saying.

I'd like to get a. I'll put whatever amount of money you want me to put towards it if I can punch Michael Bay. Oh, Kickstarter. Oh, no. Kickstarter.

Can we Kickstarter that? Someone mugged Michael Bay shooting Transformers 4 over like 13 grand or something. Like it was two brothers or something in Hong Kong mugged him over 13 grand. Nice. Why is he carrying 13 grand?

That's an excellent question. It was Hong Kong dollars. That's his like going to get some coffee money. Yeah, exactly. I got to hit the Starbucks here.

He buys a Starbucks. You'd think someone else would be carrying the money. Yeah. Alright, do we have a specific title we want to start with? Or where would you like to go?

I tried to compile at least some that we could hit along the way. I hate to go off. You said movie, but what about television show? Because you've got The Walking Dead. It's a huge series that's been.

I mean, we've definitely brought up The Walking Dead on this show many a time. So it's not far away from it. Get in the house, Carl. I'm Rick Shane! I'm Shane Rick!

But that's one... I don't know. Everybody has their theories on that. Initially, I was okay with that because it is. Oh, no, I didn't have any theories.

I was just bringing up that it's a trade that... Put it on the list. Well, in the beginning, I was on board because it is very cinematic. And when you had Darabont involved, it was almost. I think we're already talking about it.

That pilot is. We were talking about it. We've talked about it before. Shawshank Redemption. It's a continuing thing.

So, I don't know. I felt like That one did feel like you're watching a movie. There should be a Shawshank Redemption comic book. Is there a Shawshank Redemption comic book? Oh, no, I was just pointing out that they're connected.

Oh, no, I'm saying there should be a Shawshank Redemption comic book. Shawshank comic book? I don't know if I want to see some of the stuff that goes on. A novel that was a movie. Or a short story that was a movie.

Oh, do the whole precious thing. Yeah, exactly. Why isn't precious a comic book? Oh, God. Maybe I should illustrate that.

Graphic novelist. I'm surprised you don't have a graphic novelist. We'll flip what you're doing and we'll say these should be the movies that should be. I think that's a different episode. That's a spin-off episode.

We'll come back. I can always talk about Watchmen and FIFA. Those are two like. Those are on here. Do we want to start with Watchmen?

Yeah. I'm not a big fan. I think Watchmen's a little overrated, but that is my. She gets bullied a lot. I'll get yelled at by, I'm sure, a huge flood of nerds that will come in and say that I'm overrated.

I enjoyed the Watchmen movie for what it was. Oh, I'm sorry. Are we talking about the comic or the movie? Both. I thought they're both overrated.

Really? I felt that same way about V for Vendetta. I didn't read or see it until the hype was already there, so... A lot of times with me, people come to me and they tell me, you have to see this is the best thing ever. So I go in with this, you know, this haze.

Yeah, and this preconceived notion. And I think that's what happened because if I had to objectively step back, I did like the beginning of Watchmen. I thought that was well-simulated, you know. It was translated well. And even the change with the major ending.

Yeah. I even was okay with that because that would have been a hard thing to do. capture cinematically i read it back in college yeah you know it was actually a comic class that was treated as it was actually in our history department so it was like reading it as literature yeah and it's i think it does get kind of a lion's share of the attention but it is a i think i love alan moore i think. He's a it just seems to be the go-to and i like alan moore it just seems to be It seems to be that transition where people like comic book nerds will always use that as, well, we have Watchmen. That's regarded as great literature. And it's like, yeah, I get that.

But at the same time, I think there's a lot better stuff out there in the comic book world that's not being regarded as great literature because it doesn't have that stigma behind it. Because it says the Avengers. Are on it. And God forbid the Avengers be great literature. But the stigma behind Watchmen...

Yeah, there are some better storylines out there, I guess, that I would like to be regarded. I haven't read X-Men, but I've heard that's a good one as far as having a really solid storyline. Yeah, there's plenty of good X-Men. Well, they ruin that, though. As far as somebody, I kind of detest superhero comics in general.

I liked Invincible. That's a Kirkman. Yeah, it's Robert Kirkman. But The Watchmen was the only superhero comic I ever liked. I was like, yes.

Because I read it like, I read it way before a movie. And it totally does. It has that lion's share of attention as far as an independent graphic novel. And it is seen as literature. And it is a shame that there's a lot of graphic novels that aren't seen that way.

But, man, it's a good fucking book. It's a really good book. It humanizes them. A lot, too. Beautiful art.

Oh, yeah. Rorschach is one of my favorite characters. And that was the other thing that happens that I see a lot of times in the industry that you get. It's what you just said, that there's a lot of good independent out there and everything. And you get these great writers that do things for Marvel, and then all of a sudden they're a joke.

Because they're doing something for Marvel. Like Michael J. Straczynski. But they're still doing good things. It's just this...

The stigma where if you're not on an image line, you're a hack. It's like that with everything, though. Yeah. Music, you know, God forbid you sign to a label. Yeah, exactly.

And actually make a living, you know. Exactly. You're a sellout. Yeah, exactly. That's bullshit.

And that makes me so mad because there's so many good stories coming out of Marvel and DC. DC, recently, I haven't read a lot, but I've not been too impressed with You're Loving Forever Evil, though. I like it. Which we sell here at the destination. You're a good book.

Uh-huh. There have been Marvel and DC storylines that have been exceptional. The Killing Joke was amazing. Yeah, that's a good example. Court of Owls is really good.

Nightfall. Nightfall, yeah. There's a lot of good DC ones that deal with a lot of things. I think that's true even in the film world, though. Especially in these last 15 years or more, when the indie thing took off, and now it's so cool to make your own little indie movie, and tons of people do it now.

But, like, when you cross over, when you're not making your, like, you know, I made this for $ 1, 000, when you actually start doing pretty well, people start almost... Again, it's usually other smaller filmmakers that haven't gotten signed, that haven't gotten some sort of studio deal, even if it's a sub-studio. It's... I don't like the whole thing where it's almost. Like people mock you when you like something.

I used to get mocked because you mentioned Titanic. You're not mainstream. I like Titanic a lot. I used to get mocked because I used to say it's good acting in Titanic. I enjoyed it.

I thought it was good. It's an entertaining movie. Oh, that's mainstream. You like it because everybody else likes it. I'm like, no, see, I have opinions and I can still have them.

I liked it when the boat sank. And not at the boat. Blindly follows. Yeah, and people like pizza and cheeseburgers, too. I agree.

I mean, like, people need to shut up about the pretentious nature. Which one? It needs to be squashed. Well, the one you're saying. Yeah.

Like, people giving you shit. About, like, your main line. Oh, Titanic? Or the pretentiousness. Yes.

Yeah. About people liking what's mainstream. It's like, man, like, don't you like chicken? Yeah. Like, chicken and pizza and, like, ice cream?

That's, like, totally mainstream stuff. And people... I don't know. The independent people, they don't just grow up... They don't just one day say, I'm going to do movies.

They're inspired by something. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 90% of the time, they're inspired by. It's usually rated as the Lost Ark.

Or Bad to the Future. Or Star Wars. If you're doing good at anything, you're going to achieve some certain level of success. Also, exposure. So it's like, congratulations on doing what you set out to do, and that's the goal of the industry.

And now we all hate you. Exactly. Which is bullshit. Because there's studios involved. People get mad because they can't do it or they didn't think of it at first.

That's usually what it is. Well, independent doesn't necessarily mean good. I'd like independent. Oh, no, no, no. Because there's a reason why you're probably not signed.

But it got that brand. Like, the late 90s, it became so cool to be independent that, like, even the big studios would make these little offshoot brands of, like, their subsections of this huge, massive studio. But they were making, quote, unquote, independent movies. What's that one that's out with Scarlett Johansson as the voice of. An AI right now?

Spike Jonze. Yeah, exactly. That's being touted as an independent film. I'm like, really? Spike Jonze, the award-winning...

That's a. Lot of money for an independent movie. Spike Jonze doesn't make cheap movies anymore. He used to be able to, but again, he's achieved a level of success. It would be a step backwards for him to make a million-dollar movie.

Exactly. So, yeah, that's kind of... I've felt bullshit all along. I'm just like, you... And it's like I said, in everything, you can't like a band that's popular because it's mainstream.

So you get called out for both versions. Well, this brings me full circle to the Watchmen. A lot of the people that told me to watch Watchmen or told me to read Watchmen were very the pretentious crowd that came at me with, I can't believe you read X-Men. X-Men's a joke. You need to read this.

And that's, I guess, when my blinders went on with that, it's almost like they've taken something from me because I feel like that could have been good. But I read it with such a, you know, notion of condescending in my ear. And I was like, you know, why do I feel stupid because I haven't read this and I like X-Men. Like, you know, it was hard to. Why don't you read a coloring book?

It was hard to. Well, people project, you know. They do. And like if you came into my comic book store and you were reading X-Men, I'd be like, hey. you should read this because you need to know your roots. Like, read this, too.

Like, that's what you should do. Like, read this Eisner book. Read this. Like, it's not to be like, hey, dummy. You like this crappy, like, lowbrow stuff.

It's more like you need to know where it comes from. It should be sherry, you know? It shouldn't be like talking down to people. Dang it, I'm so sick of that kind of stuff. It's like the black keys get a lot of.

I can't. It's my story, but I say it all the time, and I forget what was said to me. I like Marvel Zombies. Oh, that it's pedantic. No, not pedantic.

No, that's my word. Pedestrian. Pedestrian. Yeah, I went into a comic book store that I'm not going to, you know. No plug for that.

I'm not going to plug them. No publicity. But I went into a comic book store and I liked Marvel Zombies. I like zombies. I like Marvel.

You bridge them. It's got Kirkman right in it. It's an entertaining story. I enjoyed it. I thought they did a lot of good for Magneto in it.

And I went in there asking if there was any more and I was called pedestrian for reading that comic and then asked to leave. I was trying to spend money. You were asked to leave. I was trying to sell it to you to open it back with you. We were trying to spend money.

And, you know, the response that I got from, you know, the other employees there were, oh, that guy's just a jerk. And I'm like, well, how does a jerk work at a customer service industry? You know, the comic book store is just like any other retail. Yeah. And you have to know your crowd.

So you can't just screw over. You can't make fun of them. Well, you can make fun of them after they leave. That's true. Because we did that at the video store.

Not to the face. But you don't openly just like. treat them like shit like that's ridiculous with that said we love all of our customers we love all of our customers there's this. Whole thing about if I like it and you don't like it you're stupid because you're not threatening me by not liking it yeah that's ridiculous there's plenty of shit to read and watch and everything so. It's another extension of territorialism really I mean keep that small amount of. Pound on your chest yeah To finish out The Watchmen, because we've strayed off.

But in my thing, I remember when we were doing the show when it came out. We actually did a whole episode on it, and we all kind of loved it at the time. And it's funny. I went back in the last year or so. I got the Blu-ray of it, the new one that has all the extra stuff on it.

And I was like, oh, this will be cool. In re-watching it, I didn't like it as much. And I think a lot of it was just because it wasn't all that fun. You know? Maybe because I've seen...

Other movies that are more fun now. Like, I know it's supposed to be dark. It's a very dark subject matter. And I like, like, the Rorschach part of it is the best part of it. And he's the most dark, disturbed character.

But he's... But I think it's almost more the Zack Snyder end of it. Like, he's so weighed down in his own weird little... world that he creates in his filmmaking he does he has a very specific bubble and like i felt like that was almost what was killing it like i still feel like it's a great story but in watching the movie again i feel like it's so dark and so depressing and it by the end of it i'm just like i just didn't have fun like and i remembered it being kind of more fun that first time but again maybe it's because i've seen like the avengers now and i'm like have you read the book it's no and i still yeah i haven't read the book i was taking it just from the filmmaking aspect and i'm just like as a film it's just it feels more weighed down now by the zach snyder oh you haven't read a lot of time i still have a lot it's a very existential i mean it's a very brooding book anyway i mean then he has that that pirate story that ties in yeah and i heard they actually did a they did an animated i.

Haven't seen it yet but yeah oh oh okay. You know that's an interesting little parallel thing going on because he's really in the detail. No i was just gonna he can buy it here if he wants oh. Yeah it's available i need to get a copy i haven't had it i sell. The book here i might be sold out actually i apologize i apologize let me order that i could order that.

Perfect yeah were we talking about trades in particular are comic books that See, and that's the other thing I wanted to go into, because I feel like that's part of the issue, too, is then it became almost in that pretentious bullshit part. It's just like, well, I don't read comics. I read graphic novels. And you guys probably deal with that more than anybody. I do that, but I don't say that.

I didn't know that was a thing. Oh, yeah. A lot of graphic novels are serialized. Well, they're just comics. Yeah.

But they tried to turn it into something more high literature, high art. Yeah, with the graphic novel elite. Well, I see what you're saying, graphic novels instead of trades, because for me, I think the collection of the comic books that's a single story. I mean, they're described as the same thing for my distributors. Yeah, yeah.

But for me, I just, for that, I normally read trades more than single books just because I'm lazy and I want to hear the whole story. It's like, ah, I got the whole story. But going back to the X-Men thing, I was excited when the Phoenix, you know, the Dark Phoenix saga. Yeah. I remember flipping my shit when I saw the Phoenix come up in the lake.

I love that scene. And I remember, like, it was me and, like, two other people. And the rest of the theater. Was just like, what's going on? It's like, must be a nerd thing.

It's like, you're watching an X-Men movie. But the thing was that I was like, I immediately had this moment of excitement and then despair. Because I was like, they're not going to do that, right? There's no way there's enough time. It's a big story.

That's the one in the third one, isn't it? That's the third one. They screwed up. That's what makes me concerned about Days of Future Past. I think it's going to be good.

Okay, I. The less I knew about it at first, I was excited about it, and then I saw the trailer, and now I'm worried that they're going to mess up, because they're meshing the two worlds too soon with the first class crowd, and then what's already been existing. Did you like first class? I don't think you're ever going to 100% please every single nerd. I liked it better than the first X-Men.

So we're comparing the first X-Men... you know, it's a. More solid movie. It's not like, again, it took him that first movie to kind of get his footing. And like, that's why I feel like X2 is better. Yeah.

As a movie, it's a better story. It's just a tighter, more interesting story. The first one, again, you got to do the origin thing. Like they always do for some of the characters, but, I feel like two is a better film. I would put two up there with First Class.

It's probably better than the first one. I'll say First Class is the best X-Men movie I've seen. That's out of four. There's things I didn't like about it, but I think some things paid homage to where it was supposed to be. You got to be fucking dead up.

You know, I didn't like that. I didn't, man. I didn't like the book. The book bored me. I never say that about, like, it's rare.

Like, really rare. I read a lot. I read a lot of literature and I read a lot of comics. I was. Like, yawn.

How did the movie work for you? Because that's one I just revisited this past week for the show. It didn't move me enough to be like, I don't know. I was impressed. Again, I'm going just from the movie angle, but I was impressed how, what a grand story it was trying to tell.

That it really, it took it, and again, this is when they make minor changes that I think this was almost... more impressive. Yeah, I remember enjoying the movie more than the comic, which just never happens. Well, they moved it into this dystopian future, and the original one was supposed to be kind of making this comment on the Thatcher era in the 80s, and they went, well, what if we make the flashback story modern times when they made the film, and then the actual story take place in this dystopian future, and I think that aspect I found way more interesting, and I think... what they do with the politics that are going on in the future, and, like, maybe that stuff is more interesting to me than even the character.

Again, the character himself feels like he's cobbled from about four or five other, you know, he's part Phantom of the Opera, he's part Batman, you know, he feels like he's pieced together from all these other heroes from different stories, but that one, I don't know, it had so many issues to work with there, because I'm also watching it in our day and age now, going, well, this is just a story about a terrorist. Hmm. But it's, I mean, terrorist is which side you're on, really. I mean, you know, the American Revolution was, we were terrorists, basically. The rebels.

We were rebels, yeah. No, I'm saying an empire. Well, either way, yeah. It's another just, it's a political story. It's like, that's one of those where it's like, it just depends on which side you're on as to whether you're a terrorist or whether you're a rebel or whatever you consider, you know.

The good or the bad side is depending on... I was talking Star Wars. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. Even that one.

But then that's... If you want to go into the Star Wars realm of it, not that there's comics beforehand, but that's the same thing. You look at that first run of the real movies... four five and six that you are like the rebels georgia binks was amazing take it back i won't the the i mean the rebels are this like ragtag band of guys fighting and it really does seem like you know they are the good guys and there's no question about it the evil empire and you go back in the prequels and it's like you get so bogged down in the politics of it you're like are they really even the good guys? Like by the end, I'm like, it kind of loops around and it's like, well, they're almost the empire at this, but like you're the government that they started out as becomes the government that they're fighting against later.

Like it loops around on its politics midway. Again, I think I've put too much time into my Star Wars, but there you go. Midichlorians. So we, you can write them off right there, but I don't know. I think like, that's one of those things that like, it depends on which side you fall on.

And I thought that was interesting in V for Vendetta, that we're seeing it from almost the good side, that supposedly he is this freedom fighter in his mind. He's also a homicidal maniac. He's just killing people because he has vengeance. That's all he's interested in, in half of it. And then he has this big political agenda, too.

I kind of came to that movie in much the same way as Brian here, because I never read the comic. But I watched the movie, and that for me was like in high school, which was like for me, what, like five years ago, six years ago, was when I watched that movie with whatever. I really liked it, and it kind of hit me at a point in my life, some of y'all were talking about when you got to your first comic book. That was really something kind of early for me, getting into these kind of movies, and what it gave me, interestingly, is kind of that introduction to that British holiday, Guy Fawkes Day, that they celebrate every year. The 5th of November.

Remember, remember. Yes, the lyric going on there. But that's a real thing, and I'll see there's a guy that comes by the coffee shop I work at, and he's British, and I said, happy Guy Fawkes day on that day. And you just get this face, like I'm in America and somebody knows what that holiday is. In the, uh, Sandman.

It was weird. Cause like, as I was reading it, like that part, it was November 5th. And I was like, this is so weird. It was like, I think it was in, it was the one that I can't think of the woman's name, but she illustrated the entire graphic novel. And it was the one where delirium and, and, uh, Morpheus are trying to find destruction.

And I believe it was in that graphic novel. Jill Thompson. Jill Thompson. Yeah, she's great. She is.

She's so dynamic. And she has that really simple, playful. I love it. Yeah, a few of my friends got some personal commissions from her. But Guy Fawkes, I was actually in Scotland traveling years ago.

I just happened to be in Scotland for that. And they build these, I mean, higher than Scotland, these huge bonfires. And that's actually how I found out about it. I'd never heard of it. Yeah I didn't know something's burning they drink a lot you know it's 4th of July but for them I think I told you Cameron a couple weeks ago when you mentioned it I was like you know the first time I ever heard of Guy Fawkes Day was on the episode of Daria where they have the holidays in the school I was like okay people outside of America that's all we know about it like we really up until that point and up until this movie you're like we probably had no idea what Guy Fawkes Day is because we're set in our ways it's America that's how we are yeah I don't know I thought that was fun Daria.

On that note, Ghost World. Oh, that's my favorite. I love Ghost World. Yes, I have the graphic novel on. I love everything.

I love the movie. I love the style. Those chicks have mad style. Really cool clothes. And she loved the blues.

I love Delta Blues. I kind of just love this woman so much. I love Terry Zweigoff. I think he is such an underrated filmmaker. That was his first feature, right?

I mean, he'd done mostly documentary stuff. So he did Crumb before that, which is technically. A feature length. Good grief. So good.

I love it. Crumb is amazing. To me, it's my favorite documentary ever. It's amazing. Yeah, it's like one of the top.

Did you see, gosh, I can't think of anything today. Louie Louie, I think he did before that. That was like a short documentary. Bad Sando was right after Ghost World, right? I've only seen half that.

It was one of those, I thought, again, going back to the, like, moving up in the world and going into the mainstream, like, it was one of those I felt like at the time, like, oh, now he's going to do, like, a pretty mainstream movie. And we went back and did a whole episode on it for Christmas one time, and I was like, he really does it. Like, this is a dark movie, and, like, he does not stray from his normal level of dark, and I can't believe, like, a studio signed on for this. It was John Richard. It was just his last movie.

Yeah, no, I don't know. Dirty Mac's gone too. When we watched it, they were both gone. I was just like, that sucks. But yeah, I was like, it's, he's just, he's a dark, weird director, but he's so good at making it work on screen and making it come through.

And you can tell, like, that's the thing. I'm watching Ghost World and I'm like, I guess some elements of this were in the comic, but I see so much of the director in that movie. Steve Buscemi is basically Terry Zweigoff. He loves the blues and he's hardcore about just the old blues. Everything about it seems like I'm just hearing the director talking at this point.

The movie I felt had a happier ending than the book. It's still pretty grim. It was kind of ambiguous. One friend thought it was actually she... I didn't take it like that, but that she actually had committed suicide.

It's the bus just leaving her. It leaves it up to interpretation. It is a ballet line. Yeah. What was interesting with that comic is he did it in practically all line work.

And he did the blue hues because he wanted everything to look like it was in the glow of late night television. Again, he's amazing. He's one of the innovators of that, really. Just that celebrating the banalities of existence. They kind of capture that.

Like in the pants that they see about two or three times that are just laying by the bus stop. I don't know if you remember that part. Like, oh, there's the pants again. Yeah. There's just some pants that are laying on the road.

That's stuff you really do as a teenager. This is right on. It just ties into all this stuff because then watching her sit in the restaurant doodling, I'm like, that's Crumb. Again, you're just drawing back from his last movie. That's what Crumb did his entire life.

He said he would kill himself if he didn't draw her down. I've never felt that way. It looks exactly like her style is Crumb. To me, that feels like so much of the director piece. Maybe that's what it is.

I've said that so many times. No matter how good the initial property is, If you give it to a horrible director, it's not going to come out very well. But you give it to somebody who cares about the property, you're going to get a pretty good movie out of it. Even if it strays from the source material a little bit, you're still going to come out with a better film. It was so good.

The thing about Crumb that was really kind of fascinating is how it actually affected his actual life. One brother committed suicide. Partially, I mean, it was kind of in response to all the stuff that they dredged up and... I mean, it was really uncomfortable and tragic to watch because the whole dynamic of how they grew up and everything, and then you see how it plays into his art. I mean, just the way it was done was magnificent, but also you got such a sense of him as an artist from that.

And then he ended up moving away too, right? Yeah, he went to France at the end of it, didn't he? I think it was France. He's living in France, I think, ever since. Yeah, I mean, that was kind of at the end, right?

They were packing up to. Leave and everything. Have you guys read a lot of Crumb's books? Oh. They're so good.

They're so good. You should get them. His artwork's amazing. And if you want to read them at the library, they have them in the library. But he's known for a lot of his food stuff.

He's such an astute observer. Like the blues stories. He did all these stories about the folk blues musicians in the Delta. And they were so funny and raunchy and crazy. He's a weird.

Twisty guy. I can't say enough about how much I love Robert Crumb. He's amazing. And weird and creepy. Oh, yeah.

I would totally give him a piggyback ride. A piggyback ride. Yes. And he would be all on board with it. Yes.

He'd have thick thighs. You've got to work on that. I guess. Otherwise, he'd still probably go for it. Oh, can we talk about Harvey p car now how i'm with him.

That was that was on my look i like because i mean i feel like in these last like 20 years or so there's been a ton of stuff that's come out that was a graphic novel that you would not expect to get turned into a movie like the superhero stuff i see coming but I like when we're going through stuff like Ghost World and American Splendor. I saw the movie. I like the movie a lot. I've not ever read anything. You'll love them.

Never read anything from them. They're so good. The movie was great. I'm a big fan of James Gandolfini in my head. Paul Giamatti?

Paul Giamatti, thank you. He's the most famous. The Rhino. I have a big... He's a very good character actor.

He gets really in-depth to his... you're watching him and you don't see him. And I like that. Uh, I like him when I, I like it when I watch actors and they kind of transcend the roles that they are. Harvey like pioneer the auto bio comic. Like it, And now everybody does it like online, especially, but like Harvey pioneered it.

And he actually started with Robert Crumb. They met and it was like, I think it was in one of the movies. I tell you about it, but they met. It's an American Splendor. They look at it like blues records.

And then they, um, it was jazz. He was in the jazz. Harvey P car was, and he like would draw these little stick figure. Cause he can't draw, but he would narrate his life. And like, then Robert Crumb would illustrated the first one.

And they're so good because it's like this really neurotic guy. He's like in his 40s and 50s. And he talks about his pension from like the medical clerk office. Like every episode he talks about this. And he talks about his life.

Like there was a whole comic where he was pulling out with his car, hit another car, like bumped it. it had a hell ride thinking about what am I going to do? Does somebody see this? Should I leave a note? I would call my insurance company. My insurance rate's going to go up.

And then my pension is only going to be 53%. I'm pretty sure I know exactly how much you're tired with. See, this doesn't seem like something they would green light for a movie. I know! So that's why I think it's awesome that they're making these types of properties.

But I love Harvey. I think Paul Giamatti actually pushed for it. Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. Just from across the room and just like his body language and everything just that.

Oh, I know. He's so cute. He died. He died in 2010. Yeah, okay.

You had that body language down, didn't you? Yeah, he's really slumped. You had the body language down. Yeah, he's just that defeated kind of. He's defeated.

Yeah. Yeah, my favorite panel. That slump thing that he does. That slump thing. That he does.

He's like laying in a bed. It's okay. My favorite panel ever is he's laying in a bed, and his head's on the pillow, and he wakes up, and all it says is, What do I have to worry about today? That's life for you. For an anxious person like I am, he's like my patron saint of anxiety.

Well, I was just fascinated with that style of storytelling. Right. Like, he's telling his story, but usually, I mean, you're forced to kind of draw it yourself when you're starting from nowhere. You know, I'm sure plenty of people out there have made their own comics, and, like, you're forced to draw it yourself. And he found this loophole of, like, well, I've got this ridiculous story, but I can't draw.

So here's kind of what happened. You do it, and then you give it to some of the most talented people working. I thought that was amazing, taking these two totally separate ideas and kind of cramming them together. A lot of comics end up doing that down the line. The more polished ones bring in tons of people to do stuff.

But I love that, just taking two halves and kind of cramming it together to make what became his story. We're just having the multiple interpretations, too. I guess, like, fables is like that as well. We're all different artists. But didn't he actually end up illustrating some of his own towards the end?

He might have. I can't remember. I think after the movie. Did he? I don't know.

I think there was some attention on that. I could be wrong. I know that Robert Crumb would do these, like, graphic novels with his wife, and they would all draw together, and his Sophie, his daughter, and they would all do it together. So it was like this. chaos because like three different people drawing the same comic in the same panels. Yeah it was good well.

I don't know if this kind of jumps out of the comfort zone here but just thinking about having one guy write the story and one guy do the pictures I watched there's a manga and an anime that came out not too long ago I finished Legend of the Overfiend no I was going to say Bakuman no it's called Bakuman and it follows these two kids that are middle schoolers and one of them can animate and one of them can write And they both have had formations to be mangaka, you know, manga artists. And so they work together in middle school and they just go on this, it's like four seasons long on the anime. And so by the end of it, they're like the best in Shonen Jump. And what's really interesting about the series is it lets you see what the manga industry is like, like what you have to go through to get your piece published.

And then dealing with editors and producers and all these people that are going to be a part of your process. And at the end of it, I think, Because the manga, the Shonen Jump wanted them to serialize. They wanted them to keep writing and writing and writing and keep going. And they said, well, no, we have a story that ends. And we want to finish it.

Like, when we want to finish it. Not like Yuriko Takahashi. Ranma. So was it based on their actual lives? Or were they just telling the story?

I don't... See, I think those were fictional characters. Okay. Um, this is the same guys who did Death Note, if y'all are familiar with that one. Yeah.

That's a really long, I feel like that series could have been four graphic novels shorter than it was. It would have been perfect, I feel. They just omitted that. I never read it. I watched it.

Long is beautiful. Like just, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Like the penmanship and like the line art.

This is gorgeous. Very minimal tone and just all line. High contrast. It's like Frank Miller. Okay.

Like that black and white. Very beautiful. Cool. I was going through ones that were just like, again, the ones that don't seem like they would be that kind of property. Like, I saw Road to Perdition.

I had no idea that it was a graphic novel. So it seems like something that I was shocked that was one. I can't remember, but when I was working at a comic book store, it was released, and I read the graphic novel, and I remember it was very fluid, and the lines were very loose, and I was kind of. I don't know. The style was completely unique.

It just didn't look like anything else. It was really rad. And then a few months later, I was like, this movie was coming out. And I was like, oh, that's why it was released. Okay.

I love what Cronenberg. Well, he's one of my favorite directors anyway, but I like what he did with it. I'll have to read it. I forgot that it was a graphic novel. Yeah, it's just one graphic novel.

Just one short book. They changed some stuff from the book to the movie, which the first time I wasn't too keen on, but I like the movie. It was really, it's its own thing. I love that shift halfway through when he takes off to go kill his brother. It's like, it just becomes a Cronenberg movie, like, really.

Yeah. Yeah. And then he did, what was the follow-up to that? Eastern Promises. Oh, yeah.

He sort of did a sort of straight, a little more straight movie. Yeah. That was his second. And Viggo Mortensen. I was going to say, Viggo.

Viggo! Shout out. Well, then he was in his third, the one recently with. I didn't see... No.

What was it? I think it was, wasn't it? It's Freud and when they're younger. Based on their weird relationship. Love Triangle or whatever.

Huh. Didn't know that. Yeah, he's a weird director that's sort of... He's changed so much over the years. But he still can kind of go back to that place.

You can still feel the weird, creepy stuff like he was doing in the 80s, but It's so polished when he wants it to be, and then if he wants to drag it back down to the weird, creepy, he has no problem doing it. I think Spider is one of his best, and that was that sort of middle ground of... I don't know if any of you guys have seen that. It's a very quiet movie. It was Ralph Fiennes, or however you pronounce his name.

I remember when it came out, yeah. Gabriel Byrne. It's a really good cast. It was one of those that flew under the radar. Yeah, it's phenomenal.

Nobody knew it came out. I think it's... Yeah. I mean, there's a twist and all that, but it's still just the whole mood is pretty great. A dangerous method.

Oh okay did you say okay because you said in dangerous minds earlier that's the. One that's the michelle that's why i knew i was like no that's not. Like coolio did that oh she's so coolio. Is that cronenberg you know they hang out i didn't think that's cronenberg at all. Darkman oh is that that was that's actually one of my favorites i love that but was that that was actually a graphic was that actually a graphic novel or was it just was it or was it just for comics because it had a very comic feel.

Oh yeah definitely there was some feel i've I think. You and I had talked about that already, about how that's sort of that transitional movie where it kind of got into the Hollywood stuff. A little more. Use your magic box. It's listed as co-written by Raimi.

Okay. I think it's just sort of taking from all those. It says it's like, you know, the Shadow and Batman and all the old properties. I love it. But yeah, I don't think it's based on anything else.

The Shadow, that was made into a movie. Yeah. The old Baldwin. Yes. Did we count that one?

They never had anything from it. I mean, they were mostly radio, but they did start as a strip, didn't they? Well, no, it was radio, then it was comic, then it was trades, and then it was movie. Well, Dick Trey, I just thought of Dick Trey. That was actually really cool.

That was probably one of the early, like how they visually captured it. The Phantom. Dustin Hoffman was in it as Mumbles. But just like that Sin City, you know. I think they played the groundwork for.

A lot of those. Sin City's another one. I forgot about that. Of course, that was. I think it was going to come out with a sequel.

It's coming out. Late 80s? I think it was 88. They focused on one or two new characters or something. Yeah, it's supposedly coming out in the next year.

I hope they bring Family Values into it. That was my favorite graphic novel. I've seen a workup of the poster already. Of what? It's definitely the new...

They're continuing stories from Sin City. They only did the one right yeah and they were like the next one's coming out real soon you. Know what heard that on the internet it was good enough. I love the movie I thought it was one of those that felt like again it was somebody who kind of got the property and did a really good job of transferring it over granted it was a couple of directors which It's weird. Sometimes that doesn't work.

Most times. But it feels like that one seemed like it worked. I don't know. I'm surprised The Dark Knight returns. 1989.

That's one of the first true graphic novels that I actually read in high school. And Frank Miller did the art for that, right? Yeah. His line work is fantastic. Oh, no.

Golly. It's really delicate and almost, yeah, there's some hiccups even that I. Think are really. We'll see what people hate it because I think he draws in a really robust and he's not afraid to make people very, very ugly. including the women. And he has a very like brutish way about that.

It's raw, but it's still, I mean, he's trained enough, I guess. It's beautiful. I love it. I've been sending him for a while. Yeah.

It's like, uh, well on that note, cause I feel like since that he worked, you mentioned before we started, you wanted to throw the spirit out there. What is your take on the spirit? Comedy gold. I, I. I don't stop watching movies.

Like usually if I'm in, I'm in, I'm going to watch it no matter how bad it is. I got so bored with that. It makes me sad because I love Will Eisner so much. If you guys read A Contract to God, please read it. Will you guys make me a promise?

A Contract to God? Will Eisner was the person that supposedly turned the graphic novel. He coined the term. He coined the term graphic novel. He did this series.

They're the Dropsy Avenue dramas. They're about Jewish immigrants and other immigrants that come to New York and it just progresses through time. And some of it, like some of it starts like when New York was founded, like when it was still farmland until like the seven, I think it starts around the seventies, like right on the Vietnam era, beautiful inking, like drawing, like just absolutely just gorgeous city. Like in a dynamic storytelling, this great, Like, just everything you love in a story. Like, you guys, please.

Like I was saying, like, you got to go to your roots. I'll read it now. You got to go to your roots. This is what I'm saying. Like, if you love comics, you'll love this.

Promise. Seems like you like it a little bit. I love it. I've read it three times. You hyped it up too much.

No. Well, he's really interesting. And also with that whole graphic novel aspect of the term, he also regarded the comics as a viable form of literature rather than a throwaway. Because, I mean, even the art was, you know, used to be just cut up. And my friend said there was an intern that just, at Marvel or DC, I forget, just would, his job was to cut up the pages so they could fit in the incinerator.

You know what I mean? And now there are, you know, thousands and thousands. That's why there are thousands of dollars. But also, I do kind of more of the small press stuff. My book's more of like a storybook.

They do. Kind of in the comic realm, yeah. We're going to talk about this. Yeah, yeah. I have a copy of this.

I'm going to show you my comics, too. But when I released it, I did the show. I'm not trying to plug myself. It's just more of a personal story. It's cool.

I do this little show every now and then called SPX in Maryland, DC area, and it's like the small press. That's where I saw Harvey P. Carr, actually, one year. I'm so jealous. But there was this.

Guy from Paris, and he's like, I'm going to buy your book, and we were talking. He's like, you know, this is a really great story, which was a nice compliment, but he also. Made the point is like, you know, in France, well, Belgium is like the mecca for comics. I mean, that's like, they have the biggest comic where a whole town shuts down. I forget the town.

And like a coffee shop or record store, whatever it becomes, or a comic book store becomes like, that's part of, that's actually how the convention works. Hmm. Instead of one big space, it's like a whole town. But anyway, he said, you know, we, especially in Europe, I mean, we, we value comics as like a form of literature. And I just realized that made such an impact.

Hmm. Where we have sort of this roundabout thing in our culture of it becomes a movie, then it's like, oh, then it validates the art form. It does, yeah. Which, I mean, I'm not making a, I don't mean to make a set up statement. I mean, it's just the book itself is its own merit.

It's always done that, like, even before comics. Like, look at novels. Like, it would become a classic after we made a movie out of it. Which is usually really unfair because, I mean, different media has different requirements. There's different things you're going to do depending on how you put it in there.

You're going to tell a story to fit whatever way. You're going to write it. It shouldn't be put together. They shouldn't be compared to each other. I'm in the mindset where I like it.

I mean, I've always said and I've talked to Evan and Eric both about this before that I like whatever brings more people into the genre better. I'm happy with not only as the owner of a comic book shop, but not monetary-wise, but also just happy with it because it's making things I love more mainstream. Agreed. Because when it happens, you get more of it. Exactly.

You get more of it. I've been an anime fan since I was 14 years old. And before then, you would search Suncoast. Yeah. West Coast Video.

And like blockbuster to try and find one OVA. And it would even, it would be like number 23 in the series. You'd watch it. You would love it because anime was so rare. And then Pokemon happened.

And then everything flooded and I was so happy because then I had so much anime. Finally. Because it brings it, it, uh, I've, I've had a discussion and debate with a friend of mine that is a big Dr. Who fan. And, uh, he, uh, he's not so keen on the new who stuff because, uh, He doesn't really like the audience base.

To be fair, he enjoys it. He enjoys it. He doesn't like it when people don't go back to the old stuff. Yes, but I would be thrilled if people took on Star Trek so I could get another Star Trek show. I'm a huge Star Trek fan, and I want it to be picked up in.

Sorry, I didn't mean to caress your shoulder there. It's one of those kind of shows. I would love for Star Trek to get more. And we had the movies. But it's still not there yet.

It needs to come back as being a mainstream thing. Star Trek isn't nearly popular enough. Exactly. They oversaturated it. Star Trek, I will agree.

They oversaturated the TV market was the problem. When you've got three shows running at once. At the same time. Yeah, it was too much. When they had one and two, it was okay.

But at least we had Babylon 5. You're telling me Star Wars has it oversaturated? Oh, it has. I mean, once you get that big, they just beat you over the head with that stuff. I would like just some Star Trek stuff.

To me, you have to find the stuff that you're into, and you pick and choose. So again, the more stuff is being thrown out there, the more you have to choose from. So that's always been mine with Star Wars. And back to the original thing, that's why I like, the more we do this because it brings more people into the culture, to the genre. That's why a lot of people, and this might ruffle feathers, but a lot of people despise the Big Bang Theory.

And I could say that the writing is not amazing. The humor is just one-line things. I like it, though. The TV show? I like it.

No, the actual event. i like it because it it brings it brings people into the culture it brings people like moms into the culture and if anything it it helps it helps i i'm imagined by just one situation of one of my customers but uh It helps that shy, nerdy boy that nobody in his family can get along with anything he does. The mom watches Big Bang Theory and can at least understand some of what he's saying. It helps just bridge a divide. So that's why it ruffles a lot of people's feathers. A lot of my customers hate the show.

It's horrible. It's ruining everything. I don't think it is because it's not– It's not taking your base. It's taking the moms that knew nothing about this, at least are the dads, and giving them some sort of reference point. It's true.

I've seen it enough. My mom actually loves the show. That's what it is. Yeah, I've actually watched it. But they do kind of caricaturize some of the characters.

Of course, that's the thing. I don't feel like it's right. It's like someone that. It's like if you owned a coffee shop, you hated Friends because it's like, oh, they just think they can come in. It's like...

Get out of here, you deadbeats. It's one of those things. I actually work at a coffee shop. What are your expertise in? Are you like Gunter?

So when Friends was out, I was like, grade. School, what? Now I feel old. Well, since it started, I've watched the Big Bang Theory get bigger and bigger. And I'm just like, from... i didn't love it to begin with and i've gotten less impressed with it only because i feel like it's not genuine like i feel like it is i think it is but i feel like it is a.

Very character thing and. It's well not just their their presentation of these friends like it doesn't seem real and their geek references seem forced and don't seem genuine but i'm like i don't i don't curse it because it's the same thing i'm like But people love it. I mean, it's the number one thing on this network. It's making more money than sitcoms have made in years. And what that helps with...

And I'm fine with that. Like, they're popular. And that's back to what she said. What that helps with is that producers see that's making money. And guess what?

That means we get more of this type of thing. The reason... we're getting Guardians of the Galaxy, the movie, is because Avengers made an insane amount of money. We would never be getting these movies rolling out or the genre would continue if... if it wasn't making money. Groot would never be in a movie if the Avengers hadn't done one. Exactly, yeah.

There wouldn't be a rocket raccoon running around if there wasn't something else that did well first because that's not the first. But that being said, I understand the concern when people get, like, if a lot of, I mean, whatever terminology you want to call it, outside people, whatever, people that aren't usually into this kind of stuff, is it becomes more mainstream. You do see things like, okay, well now in the comic books, Captain America's costume reflects the movie instead of what it used to be. And things happen like that. Like the Ultimates.

Yeah. With all the movie stars. It's the opposite, though. It's the... That just becomes branding at that point.

We need something to be universal so we. Can market it. You can't argue with that. That's them protecting their investment. I mean, it's all a business.

They're out to tell good stories and stuff, but ultimately. All of a sudden, Spider-Man likes Mountain Dew a lot. Well, who doesn't? We're looking for our endorsement, by the way. Swing through Taco Bell.

You have to have a car to go through the drugs. Three tacos. Not if you're Spider-Man. well while we're talking about geeky characters and uh i i know at some point we're supposed to get to scott pilgrim so oh yeah that one definitely was sort of a game changer in different ways but on the other hand didn't really break through like it feels like it worked for the fans didn't make a ton of money didn't make near what they i mean they were banking on that being the big movie of the year and normal people saw it and were like the hell's going on and i and i can see that i i just i just watched it recently and i was like i can see why people would totally tune out of that if you weren't a fan of comics and video games and like the all of the stuff you didn't get.

Why i'm seeing that they're in you know it's a beautiful movie though i mean we uh back when i worked at best buy for many years that was one of the uh blu-ray demos we used to do because it's just the uh scene where the um two-guy uh oh. The dj thing the dj demo the dj because the sound was amazing and the visuals were just beautiful on blu-ray i mean. It just it's gonna be interesting to see because it was uh edgar wright right yeah yeah that's right he was with uh yeah man that'll be uh oh that's right he is doing ant-man again that's that's. One of those that like i feel like he's he hasn't gotten i mean again within his fan base you know they love him and he's great but like he he just doesn't sort of break through because even like the world's end didn't make that much money this year and i'm.

Like well that was a pretty great movie the one with the one with the third yeah i don't i i love the other two and that one just um see. I like that one i couldn't get. I i don't know if i like it more than hot but like i love sean today yeah But, like, I felt like that one is so... Like, it sets up so much stuff that, like, again, it's just good storytelling. Like, you don't see in that kind of movie, usually.

Well, you say good storytelling, but it seems so. So, like. You knew what was going to happen. Like, okay, you got the deadbeat friend. You got the friend that made money.

You got the friend that's happy with himself in life. And then you got the friend that made a mistake and the deadbeat one. It just seemed all like I was like, oh, I've seen this in every friend movie ever. Kind of. But I felt like you get to that halfway point and you start realizing everything that you think about all these people isn't true.

It's like you start to see them... Them dealing with real life. Again, you don't see this in those kind of movies. We even had the whole girl thing. There's a....

Girl introduced, happens to be the brother of one, and two of the guys like him. I'm like, okay. That's pretty standard life, though. I was like, let me guess, let me guess. One of them probably slept with their own back when they were teenagers.

Again, this is life. It just seemed like a lot was. There's a little, but again, I think he's almost knowingly playing with those conventions. I think he sets that stuff up, and then you're like, oh, and there's these people with their happy lives, and they're making money, and he's married, and like, Well, no, his marriage is falling apart, and he's in debt. And you start to realize, none of them have a perfect life.

And Simon Pegg just is so not dealing with the fact that he's, you know, all of his problems over the years, he just has put it off. But everybody has that friend that doesn't move on. Which is, yeah. Which is fine. Perfectly fine.

I may very well be that character, but again, I felt like that, they were all painted really well, that like, there was, it could have been half-assed, and I felt like he at least fleshed out the characters enough that made it worth seeing for me. Well, that's what I like about those movies in general, is that zombie movie, buddy cop, old friends reuniting. Yeah. But he takes those, but they're so different from everything else in their. Respective genres that there's just something special about it.

And they always put sci-fi in it. And they always focus on the characters, though. I mean, Shaun of the Dead should have just been a dumb zombie movie. There are moments in there that are better than most dramas out there i'm like that thing with the father yeah like god damn like that was a hard scene to get through and. I can't i can't listen to queen i'm.

Just yeah i'm like there's so many moments that rise well above a dumb kind of zombie movie comedy like it's it's just i don't know edgar wright just doesn't get he hasn't broken through to that point where he's getting acceptance even in like the film world he's got the geeks on his side but like Even in the film world, it doesn't seem like he gets the respect that... I mean, he's probably one of the most influential directors in the last 10 years. But, you know, he still doesn't get... He's had a good amount of money thrown at him, at least. The studios are on board with him, but...

Most people still don't recognize it. When Ant-Man comes out and everybody... I love it when movies come out and everybody realizes that that was their favorite director. A big funny thing. When Thanos was revealed at the end of Avengers, everybody all of a sudden realized Thanos was their favorite character.

I love Thanos. I love that one where he did that thing and he's awesome. I like the point out that Thanos was. The value of comics is so monetary-wise... Whenever somebody's announced or hinted at or rumored at, my God, it skyrockets like crazy.

I have an age of apocalypse that was... $ 20 to $ 30. Apocalypse is now in the next movie. It's now a $ 150 comic. Because everybody all of a sudden, that's right, I love that guy. That's one of my favorite characters.

The thing is, you've got to jump on that. Because then a few years go by and it's not cool anymore. It's just called capitalism. A good example is Scott Pilgrim. That's what happened with the trades.

Oh, gold's hot right now. It's a market. You've got to watch it. Oh, Scott Pilgrim. So, I don't know.

What is your take on Scott Pilgrim? Oh, I was going to say that that is literally the movie I wrote in my mind when I was like a teenager. Yeah. I was like, I'm going to do that. And I had some buddies that we used to do films and stuff and I was like, I want to do something where I was trying to explain to him.

I couldn't get it across. Like, no, this guy can do anything but it's more in his mind where it's just him doing whatever's funny or in his head at the moment. And I watched Scott Pilgrim and I was like, shit. They stole my movie. No, but it was amazing.

I was sitting there watching everything. I was just like, okay, that's awesome. That's awesome. That's exactly. And it was like, That one is a movie that I really got, you know, because it just spoke to me exactly what I'd grown up with, you know, video games and all that.

But, you know, it's one of my favorite movies. You know, I don't know, how old is it now? Like four years, five years? Four. Yeah, three or four.

Because I bought the comics my freshman year of college. And I didn't know about that until the... I didn't know that comics existed. I was one of those things. And it's the same thing.

You were talking about earlier, the movie. Oh, yeah. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I don't think it's bad. No, no, no.

There's a lot of things. I didn't really follow Scott Pilgrim until the movie. And then I felt like... It's not a bad thing. I just thought it was a humorous thing how when it comes out, it just triggers...

It's like the... The domino effect and everything. Scott Pilgrim, by the way, has Captain America in the movie. Yeah, no, actually, and I was going to. And Superman ran around.

Oh, it does have Superman in it. See, there are a lot of these random characters in there that play, because they've got all these exes that he has to fight. So you just get this opportunity to bring in a bunch of characters, and I'll see these actors in other movies that are just really bad, and I'll be like, but I love what you did in Scott Pilgrim. Why is that any better? Again, I think it's that you're right.

And I didn't, watching it this time, I was just like, it could have gone, again, taking a story that simple, it could just be like, oh, and he likes this girl, and then in the end, it could end very traditionally, but you get that midway point when you start realizing, oh, he's not really the greatest character. He's our hero, but he's flawed. And then you're watching the girl, and you're like, wait, why does he like her again? Because she's not really the greatest character. Again, it paints them to be real human beings.

In a dumb movie about comic books or video games, you wouldn't have to have that, but I think again edgar wright got the source material and put a hell of a lot of heart into it and i think that's why by the end of it you're just like i do kind of care about these two even though they're. Not perfect like they're both very flawed characters i'm gonna go home and watch it tonight you. Should now but i would say that the comic books bring across a lot of that story development a lot better than the movie now saying that i love both of them a lot actually i'm wearing battle yeah yeah yeah i've just got this going on but Here's an example. Michael Cera's character, he plays Scott Pilgrim. He plays kind of like a bumbling idiot.

But honestly, I went back to the comic book and I was like, he could have been more of an idiot. And that's his bread and butter, is playing a clueless young adult. I feel like the Scott Pilgrim from the comic is more of like, this bumbling idiot. But there's a lot of really good, and I guess it's this Wright brought in the really good directing scenes. Like, I think there's the scene where Scott Pilgrim has to come to terms with the fact that he loves... ramona and he's just i think it's when he says i'm in lesbians like yeah whatever and the whole scene is uh is like cut out of uh seinfeld because it's just got that bass going up in the background and i caught on to that and i was like oh man like you know you couldn't have done that in the comic book but right here it works really cool yeah.

I mean there's there's so many different things you can do in each medium and i think again that's how much he was dedicated to that original property have you watched the side by side thing that they do i mean Comic books are almost perfect to be turned into movies anyway, because it's basically just like a storyboard with the dialogue already there. So, I mean, you watch, they do a split screen of like the original, like drawings from the comic versus how he shot it. In the movie. And they're damn near mirror image or pretty close. So you can see, it's not like he just, well, I'm going to shoot it my way.

Like he got that original and was like, he's onto something. Like he does tell the story the way that I still want to convey and he can do his own personal touch to it. But, He was still seeing that the original comic had that perspective and was trying to keep that going. Watch that breakdown that they do, because it is amazing how much time he put into building sets that actually look like these little... It's a very simple style of drawing that he does, too.

But it's funny how much he translates that to this three-dimensional world and put a hell of a lot of work into that, it seems like. You could almost use the comics as a tour guide of Toronto. Because a lot of those places are really there. I want to go to Toronto just to go to Honest Ed's and just walk around. Make sure you see the mayor.

And on a side note, what the hell is he thinking with Ramona? Knives is awesome. The whole time I'm like, but Knives is so awesome. What are you, stupid? And what's the drummer's name now?

Kim. She's, again, an amazing character thrown in this that didn't have to be there. She could have been nobody in the background. Yeah. She becomes kind of one of the best characters when the movie goes on.

And you know that there's that scene at the very end where Scott walks into the big final kind of fight room and he looks at Kim and just says, I'm sorry. Well, that apology takes up more time in the comic book. There's this whole big extended what they call wilderness sabbatical where he finally realizes that he's been an ass to everyone he's ever met his whole life. And finally at the end, it's like, wow, maybe I should grow up. So when I started coming up with some of the movies that we should talk about, I knew right then that when you get that many geeks together and throw out topics like comics and movies, well, we were going to get so into it that we were going to spill over into the next episode.

And I was right. So we'll be back next week to continue with more on graphic novels. But for now, we'd like to close out with an awesome song, a fitting song, and a movie we were just talking about. Otherwise, that about does it. We will return next week.

Same geek time, same geek feed. And now, Kim, tell them who you are. We are Sex Bob-Omb! One, two, three, four! Let's do it.

His mom died, I think, like, last year. Because I know he had her on as a guest here and there. After she was dead? Yeah. That would be cool.

Like a Ouija board? We'd consider doing one of those episodes. Just put a Ouija board out there and talk about whatever it tells you to? We'll just have a celebrity interview. Like, Charlie Chaplin.

Then we'd just get in trouble because we'd get in a fight. I'd be like, Buster Keaton was better than you. Oh, shit, he's pissed. Ladies and gentlemen, the board is floating on the table. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by The Empires.

For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard!