271: The Weird Existential Ninth Configuration

This is Scott Wilson. I played Herschel Green on The Walking Dead, and this is Movie Meltdown. Stay tuned. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised.

It's showtime, folks. Enjoy the show. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power. What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian.

I'm Lucy. I'm Mike. I'm Beau. I'm the only Dave. For once.

Thank you. Yes. And we're coming to you live via digital recording from 180 Studios, which is Mike's home or new relocated office, or how do you build it? I don't sleep here. Are you sure?

There's no shower. There was a pillow over there. There's no shower. We actually opened our new offices last week, so still moving in. It's minorly shifted.

You've got Wi-Fi. That's important. We have Wi-Fi. We have the The new desktop's ordered, so. You're halfway there.

We're halfway. And it's beautiful, I should add, since there's no visual component here. It's a great space. And it smells fantastic. It does.

It smells like new things and possibilities. It's like magical. It smells like unicorns. I want new things and possibilities and new yucky candles. Combine them with one of those inspirational stores.

That's great. With those framed pictures that you bought. Yeah, yeah. I need that. It used to be one of those at the mall where we were at a few years ago.

And I would just walk by it every day and go, how does this stay in place? Are there really that. Many people that get like a check from the office to like, here, go buy something and hang it on your wall? Because why would you spend your own money on that? Every telemarketing outfit on the planet.

They got it, yeah. Teamwork. Well, that was like. Positivity. I just have this mental image of the owner just like, God, this was a stupid, stupid idea.

And he just looks up and across me sees Blee with like the flying eagle. Yeah, it will. It'll take off. It just needs some time. Around 94, 95, and then the internet came and proved all that stuff wrong.

The internet ruined everything. There's no positivity. There's no teamwork. There's just the internet. It might be true, but.

All right, well, as for our. There is no positivity. No positivity. Along with the show. Let's move on to this week.

Our geek activities this week are planning future geek activities. So, Wonderfest is coming up, and we will soon be in the middle of it, I'm assuming, as we usually are, with recording awesome episodes like we do. So you should plan to head over there now just for that reason alone. But, you know, because we have both Dave and Beau here this week, who have spent many, many years of their life working in conjunction with Wonderfest. I thought we would let you guys tell people what you have in store for us this year.

What do we have in store, Bo? I like you're going to pass it off to me. Well, you can start. I was going to say, in the way of guests, the one that I'm fanboyish. About is going to be Doug Drexler.

I was going to say, there's a lot of actually tech guys this year that are coming for our 25th, just because... 25th is going to be kind of like a family show in the sense that we at Wonderfest. Are a family. Kind of a homecoming for a lot of people from way back. We've got Carol Baumann.

We haven't had her in six, seven years. It's been a while. Bringing back Rick Sternbach as well. And of course John Eves has become sort of the yearly tradition coming in. Just because the man stays busy.

Most of these people are special effects people or designers or Makeup. Drexler is an interesting character because he started out with makeup. He started out with makeup and then he got into shipbuilding and pretty much everything. It's like he's sort of a renaissance man when it comes to working within the industry. And I guess that's almost what you have to do nowadays.

It's just you've got to stay multi-talented. That way if you run out of opportunities with one aspect of your job, you just hop onto a different one. Ken Palco is coming back. who is a major prop builder these days for big movies. He just did Godzilla, which will be out in a couple weeks. He did three or four other major pictures this year.

I was just talking to him the other day, and like I said, one of the most interesting things about what he does is that it's one of the only facets that's not threatened by CG these days. An actor still has to have something to hold, and he's a very good craftsman, so he makes props that are high-functioning. He did, like, the phasers for the last Trek movies. They do that little switch-around deal, and that's real. It really does that.

He does, like, a gas canister type thing, which I think he did the Oxygen Destroyer for the new Godzilla. It actually does emit some kind of crazy gas. They don't have to go in and post all this stuff, so he's got job security being created like that. Real physical things? What is this world?

It's so commonplace, but not anymore. Wonderfest, you know, it's technically a hobby show, a modeling show, but A lot of our guests in the 25 years we've been in operation have seen their careers change. Some have ended and some have been modified drastically by CG and film. So we're going to kind of talk about a lot of that at the show as well. But we brought back a lot of the old school folks.

We don't have any celeb guests this year. We decided to kind of forego that because everybody and their brother does that. There's a lot out there. There's enough autograph shows out there where it's like there's no sense. In trying to even compete with that.

The meat markets where it's like stand in a line for this Doctor Who. And they've got a whole generation of people who are fans who don't know what it's like to go to a real show. They just know that they can go and stand in line for eight hours to meet Stan Lee. Or pay $ 300 to maybe talk to him for ten minutes. That's not what we've.

Ever been to. And then you leave with a piece of paper with his signature but it's like What else did you do? You stood in line all day. I know. I'm at more of these than I need to now.

I don't know. I just don't have patience for it. I support them because it's still fandom, and it's definitely shifted, but I feel like they're still kind of in the same group, but now it's just such a different, weird business way. To do it. The whole idea of standing in line to buy all these autographs, fandom's become a convenience.

So many things in our culture have just become... centered around convenience what is easiest it's like i don't have to really you know interact a lot of people there i can just keep my head down go in pay my money get this and go. Out you're actually buying your experience instead of experiencing your experience you know you're actually going purchasing it which is what the society is all about but it literally always been about you know creativity and and most of our attendees are modelers or sculptors or artists and they get to meet people that do that work for film and comics and other things so. I don't feel like there are many other conventions to where it is like a large family reunion for the modelers and come in, enter the contest every single year for the crew that gets together along with the guests.

Like, everyone interacts with one another. There's no, like, you know, idea of, you know, well, just because I'm a guest, I'm more superior than you or anything like that. It's just everybody seems to just get along as one big unit. Everybody has common, you know, childhood experience when it comes to this stuff. So we grew up with the same movies and building the same model.

Playing with the same toys. And some people took it further and became designers. And it affects people. And some people just maintained a pretty aggressive hobby. A lot of these guys spent a lot of money on the show.

A lot. A lot of money. I see him walking around with some of those. And those models are not cheap. They're amazing, but they're not cheap models.

I mean, there are a few, but... Most of the good ones are high-end stuff. You see folks loading vans with boxes afterwards, and you assume it's a dealer. It's like, no, no person just came here just to buy, just to stock up on models and split. Stocked up for the year until the next time.

Because, you know, like a lot of other things, what used to be a childhood preoccupation has kind of vanished. Kids build Lego models now. They're very expensive. Trust me, I have the Death Star and. The Millennium Bomb.

They're really cool, but you're done and you're done. They don't want kids painting with ply and amyl and using good old model glue anymore. There's been a bounce back with the styrene industry, so there are companies that are making cool styrene kits again. They're a little more expensive, but still kids can come. We always have a make and take for kids, so kids come and get free models.

And also with the advent now of 3D printing becoming the next big thing, you might see that cause a boom to the. Model industry in and of itself. Designers are getting a free hand in manufacturing now through 3D printing. There's some amazing stuff being done. And some of it's still rather expensive, but that's not going to be up there for long.

So they think at some point that's going to encroach on there you'll be able to do it at home in five or eight years three you. Know startup programs with you know tabletop 3d printers guys. And they're like three thousand dollars for these tabletop printers it's pretty amazing what you can buy now it's weird i mean they've gotten to the point to where they actually they there's some that print you know food as well like it's a soy based product or something. Human organs yeah there'll be a lot of lonely guys who aren't so lonely That's right. So I should start saving $ 300, 000 now.

Yeah, because they. Haven't made it to where they can start printing just cells, live cells. Oh, God. They've been battling it for a while. I mean, it was, I guess, about two months ago that they did the 3D printing of the heart valve that they put in here in town.

So replicators are real. Yeah. I can actually go and order it out of a box on the wall. You know, right? Because again going back to the convenience thing now you don't even have to go out to the fast food restaurant to the drive-thru you don't have to interact with anyone you.

Just just wait 50 minutes and you'll get your printed fry. All right i'm gonna have to interact with people yes. We've got the whole the whole modeling aspect of the technical aspect and then we've got the whole monster kid thing kids who grew up watching monster movies and horror films and I've got a lot of that going on this year with a couple of films we're going to be running. Corlin Hall always does docs, and he's got a nice one for this year's Friday show. Larry, a.k.a.

Dr. Gangrene, is coming back to do a show on Saturday night, too, which is a horror host show. It's been, I guess, about three years since he did one. Two or three years since Larry did one, and we're doing a Godzilla theme. It's Godzilla's 60th anniversary as well, so we're going to show a really bad Godzilla movie.

There are no bad ones. No, not really. I love them all. Take exception to that. I love them all, but there is Megalon.

Yeah. Because that focuses more on... It's bad, and I love it. What is the robot's name? I can't remember.

Jet Jaguar. Jet Jaguar. It's not even an appealing robot. He's a very... He's smiling too widely.

He's like, Jack Nicholson is a robot. Just a bastard. We're going to try to have the world's largest interactive Jet Jaguar song. Sing along. That'd be fun.

It is a really fun picture. Good Lord, I've gone black. Robert Tunnell, who's a filmmaker who's done a lot of work, he's done a really cool documentary about the whole social phenomenon of the monster kid generation starting in the late 50s through the 70s and how it was all fueled by famous monsters and monster models. It's a good piece. He's been working on it for three or four years.

He was one of the people involved in doing the monster kid home memories assemblage a. Few years ago. That's cool. So he's going to have that finished up. A lot of neat stuff.

So we're covering a little bit of everything this year. It's part of our big anniversary. That's cool. It's amazing that the show lasted that long, this kind of a show. Yeah.

I mean, in a way, it. In Louisville. Well, that's part of the issue, too. No, I mean, it is interesting going to that one versus other ones because it really does have the family feel. But number one, you have that where there are people bringing their kids now that they've been going here so long.

But just in general, like you said, I mean, I've been going to it as long as I can remember now. I don't know, most of my life. And it is like it is the same feeling you get every time. And it's the same vendors, you know, you saw last year. But it does have that, like, I don't know, you do get kind of nostalgic once you get in there.

You're like, oh, yeah, I remember that guy. And it does take you back to those years. And not switching venues every single year I think helps a lot. Yeah, we've been at, well, the Crowne Plaza now. We've been there since 96.

Yeah. So it's a long run. Got along well with those folks. It's like going home. It's a very second home feeling.

If I had to keep moving around, I don't know if I would have stuck with it this long. It's hard to start over. It's nice. Figure things out every time, I would assume. I don't want to do that.

So more power to you guys for continuing to keep it going. Because we're facing a lot of, it's not direct competition, but it's becoming a show world where everybody and their brother is getting into this business. And Comic-Con gets tossed around constantly. We just had the Wizard show. And then what I call the Derby City Comic-Con, which I actually appreciate because it's local guys.

And it's been going on for years. It's been going on for a while. And they're coming up, what are they, in July, I think? I think so. I've seen the posters.

It's a fun little show. Going to two days this year. I'd like to see more of that. Yeah, but that's the whole thing, especially now that it's shifted towards those other types of conventions, when people hear, you know, we're throwing one together, that's what they start to ask about. It's like, what autograph guest?

Which Doctor Who are you going to get? Yeah, exactly. What cast members from The Walking Dead Season 1 only are you going to get? No offense. You can afford Axel.

Come on, anybody can afford Axel. And who? Who's the one guy. Take your pick. Michael Worker's everywhere.

Norman Reedus will bring in Droves. Norman, how many times a year do you have to meet Norman Reedus? Depends. He's everywhere. Are you a girl that doesn't get out of the house much?

Maybe. If you buy yourself a 3D printer, then you won't need that. This is the type of show where you'll have people like John Eves or Eric Chu and these guys who design major things where once they start listing their credits and what they've designed for the shows that they work for, it's amazing. And then after they're done talking. They'll stick around for, you know, one, two hours and be like, come on down to my table or join me for, you know, a drink or something.

This is how I got into it. I was a guy like you 10 years ago just sitting there, and this is how I did it. You can do it too. I mean, they're very just, you know, interactive. I mean, there's no table barriers and a lot of people separating you from getting.

To know them. What's been the biggest. Obstacle or the biggest headache when bringing in celebrity guests? Why have you chosen not to do it this year? Obstacle of, I mean, just there's so much competition now.

Now it's competition. Now, because we have the mega shows, they are used to, I think, a certain level of compensation. And it's always been, ever since people started charging for autographs, which, you know, grew out of the sports industry, we understood that was going to be a. Part of it. Now, our biggest guests were never guests that charged.

Like, our biggest guests in the past were Ray Harryhausen, He had lines for hours. And George Romero. I got George Romero right on the cusp of the zombie thing coming back. That was well before any of the other shows. I got George for gas money.

George and his assistant drove down with his son. He wanted to come to the model show. And now if you want to get George, well, you're looking at an initial $ 10, 000 outlay if that's going to work or not. And they've come to expect that. And there's an industry minimum now of around $ 7, 500 a year. guarantee on autographs.

And I can't guarantee that a lot of the time because people come to my show to buy model kits and show off their artwork. There's contests and all this. They'd love to meet the celebs and they don't mind paying $ 10, $ 20 for a nice autograph. But this whole mega show world where, you know, people are getting $ 100 or $ 150 to sign an autograph. That's not something that's going to fly at Wonderfest.

Because the people are bringing their money to buy the bottles. And the bump happened recently. It went from $ 20 to $ 60 on a lot of people that I'm like, really? That's because of the influx of what I call the neofan. There are all the kids and 20-somethings who are into Doctor Who and Walking Dead and everything else.

Hey, it's great that they're into it, but it's like they just suddenly discovered this is out there and it's got a long history. And I get bitter. I feel like an old soldier. I'm a geek from way back and I feel like, well, I fought hard and was punched around the playground. And now you all benefit from this, but I didn't get much out of it.

Back in my day. Culture has shifted. I mean, what used to be fringe culture is now the culture. It is. It's become a big part of it.

I'm still like the only big Dick Tracy fan in Louisville. It's all you. I would agree with that. I think you're selling yourself short. I think you could expand that geographic.

He's tried. I think you're the only one maybe in the world. If I go up to Chicago, last. Year was my first year at Wonderfest. Never.

And I've always been a fan. But never either, either. Missed it, been busy doing other things, and then finally heard about it a week later. A week after it was. Again, that's an issue with our town more than anything.

It's just trying to get the word out to people. We've been around a long time. We hit all the media, but it's just there's a lot vying for people's attention. A lot of people think it's a pigeonhole sort of just model kit thing. And it's a little bit of everything.

But yeah, I still have people all the time. You do what? When is this? It's the same when I do stuff at the theater, too. It's like, you know, just change it to where it's like Louisville, the city of best-kept secrets.

Basically. That's all it is. Anytime somebody does, like, some sort of, you know, art show or anything, it's like you find. Out about it the week after. And if you're in, as most of us have grown up and many of us have families now, if you're trying to wedge it in between soccer games and baseball games and.

You know, traveling here and doing, you know, we are just never have time. I mean, the majority of our attendees. I insisted last year that we would. system. Most of our folks are out-of-towners because it's a holdover from the late 80s, early 90s when the whole garage kit industry kind of kicked off. Came out of Japan and came over here.

And there were more shows back then. There was actually a West Coast show. Chiller, which is still a big show in New York, But they've shifted mostly over into being a celebrity con. So there were a few more, but it was kind of a big hobby for a while, a big adult hobby. And Wonderfest just kind of clicked because of our location.

It's pretty central to a lot of places. And most of the guys just happen to live here who got into it. Well, what most people don't know is, you know, I took my two children and my wife. The three of them are not. Huge fans, but they had a ball.

It's really neat stuff. Even if you're not a model builder, or even if you're not a. Geek who got beat. Up on the playground like we all did, there's still something for everyone. It's just a lot of fun.

It's a nice family event. It is, and that's kind of rare. We've got folks. We've got cosplayers. God, I hate that word.

We've got folks walking around in costumes. We've got... guys doing demonstrations. They're all free with admission. Make and take workshops. Make and take for kids.

I've got two arenas of programming going on upstairs all day, both days. We've got after hours events with movies and stuff like that. A little bit of fun for everybody. We get a little covered up sometimes, a little worn out before the show hits, but then that weekend hits and the energy starts to buck up. Suddenly it's like, I'm home.

I'm dragging through my school days on four hours sleep, and then on Winterfest weekend, it's like, I don't need sleep. No, no sleep. So it's been a long road, but it's nice to still be here. It's nice to have as many really cool guests to draw from as we do. So it was actually kind of hard this year.

We've got a lot of folks coming in, so it's like, okay, how many can we bring in? That's actually gotten to the point to where we have guests we've had in previous years saying, I'd like to come back. I think that says a lot when you get that. Yeah, I noticed Eric is back on the list. Eric's lying himself down.

I can't get rid of Eric. I know. Which Eric. He just wants to come hang out with me. He'll deny it.

No, he loves you. And last year, he had an entire box of art prints that got shipped to him late and sort of arrived like Sunday night or something. I think it was Monday morning. When he was getting ready to check out the hotel. That's handy.

And he's like, well, I don't feel like dragging these back. Just, here, you can have them. If I ever come back, you can coat my... hotel room with him for all I care. I was like, okay. So they're still in my garage.

You're like duly noted. Noted and waiting. So yeah, I'm sure we will attempt to rope him into something. It's in the works. This is Eric Chu, who's of course one of the primary designers for Battlestar Galactica.

The reimagining from a few years ago. And regular on MovieMill. I think we're just going to induct him as an honorary cast member as of this year. Yeah. But I guess if they haven't been sold yet, where would they go on the old internets there to find out more about it?

Thunderfest.com. There you go. What weekend? It will be May 31st and the 1st. Thank you.

Technically, we have stuff going on that Friday before. The show proper doesn't start, but I've got events going on Friday night, and then we have second-party guys who do really intensive events demos that are paid demos where you can go in and you can get a free really cool monster bust and get the use of an airbrush and they'll teach you all day how to do painting and building and sculpting and those are all independently run as part of the show and those are all there's information about all of those on the website as well that's. The other thing too is just so you have the autograph shows people just go and they split and that's it but at wonderfest it's like find a hotel room. There's something going on.

I don't mean like that either. I mean, sure, everyone's in the office. Mostly the geek stuff would win out with that crowd. They're just like, yeah, that stuff, whatever. But I'd rather go see them make this model kit over here.

Go up to this room and get buzzed on airbrush fumes. There you go. It's that kind of party. Yeah, it's pretty unique. And like most shows, they're 9-to-5s now.

Creation cons, things like that. get in line at 9, get out in line at 5. It doesn't happen with us. It's just hang around from Friday night until Sunday night, and there's stuff going on everywhere. Yeah, definitely. As far as getting back to why we don't have celebs this year, I mean, we attempted to talk to a couple people because we wanted somebody different, people who aren't on the circuit.

So we were talking to Jessica Harper for a while, and she was interested. It's just like she's got so many things going on in her family right now. It was an anniversary for Phantom of the Paradise. Oh, perfect. And they're releasing that Blu-ray later this summer, too.

Yeah. And I'll still try to get her if I can, because she's somebody I've always wanted to have at the show. Done a lot of cool work, both genre and out of genre. She writes children's books and cookbooks, and she'd fit right into the family environment. They just try to go for someone who's not out there already in the meat market.

And try to convince them. It's like, yeah, it's not just a sit there and look bored and sign autograph show, because... That's the thing, too, is you go to some of these shows, like I went to Mad Monster Party, not last year, but the year before, and you had everyone lining up for, like, you know, Kane Hodder and all these guys who, you know, Tyler Maine, stuff like that, where they're always just in masks. The latest guy in the mask. I know it is.

It's the latest guy in the mask. Everybody's lined up with him. It's like they're at every single convention. And then I look over, and the main person that I went there just to see was Mary Warrenoff, who's just sitting there looking at her watch like, is anyone going to come to my table? So I just sat and talked to her for like 30 minutes.

Well, that's the same thing that kind of happened with Corman when he was in Lowell a few years ago. I think we were sitting there for like two or three hours. I got to spend two days with Roger Corman. Wow. Because not that many people were lining up to see him.

That's right. I was in the line with like five other people. They're out the door to see this guy who's a nice enough guy. But this is Roger Carman. I know.

That's shocking. It is. It is. And, you know, I give Ken credit for trying. But, because Roger's not a cheap guest.

Otherwise, I'd have him. But it was great to see him. That's where Roger's smart, because Roger's always been smart. Yeah, he knows what he's doing. And it was a great privilege to spend all that time with him.

But, you know, every time somebody would come up, he'd break off and try to do his best to make that money back for Kelly. But I don't think he came close. But we got to talk about his acid trips and why they dubbed Barbara Steele and, you know, all kinds of fun stuff. And he got to yell at all of the would-be filmmakers. You're all making the same damn movie.

It was great to hear him say. That, so. That is fun, actually. He was pretty nice when I talked to him. Yeah, good guy.

He's a good guy. He's Harry Dean Stanton's age. Exactly. They were both born in 1926. Wow.

I didn't realize they were both that high up. Yeah. It's kind of a magic year. There's a lot of people that were born that year that are still doing their thing. Harry Dean Stanton was.

Born that year. Really? I don't think I'm familiar with him. He was born that year. How do you spell that?

Harry. Harry Dean. Harry Dean. It's so funny you should actually ask that. There's a festival in his honor that happens in Lexington.

Is there really? When does that happen? Yeah, it's coming up, too. That's June 13th through the 15th. Why in Lexington?

Why Kentucky? I'll tell you. It's funny you should ask that, though. Thank you. He was born in West Urban and then went to high school at Lafayette High School in Lexington, Kentucky, and then went to the University of Kentucky and caught the acting bug at the Guignol Theater before he moved out to Los Angeles.

So you could go to Wonderfest. You could. And then take a weekend break, which you probably need. Get some rest. Get some rest, and then the Harry Dean Stanley Fest the following weekend.

I feel like that sounds like a pretty top-notch tune. So the tourism board is a proud sponsor. They can send that check right over. We will plug all events coming up. Somebody just.

By chance, do you all have anything programmed yet in your mind? Again, Beau, you're really firing on all cylinders today. We do. We have three days of programming opening night since Brian wasn't going to ask this. Yours is a different week.

But you can have this. We'll go to town. Do you want me to sit out? I can sit out on this. Go to town.

Oh, no, please. So opening night is going to be Cool Hand Luke outside at the Triangle Park in beautiful downtown Lexington. That is a free event. Saturday is John Carpenter Day. All free events until the evening.

We're doing Christine at the Farish Theater in the afternoon and then Escape from New York at 7 p.m. At the Farish Theater. And then there's going to be an Escape from New York after party where a band called Palisades, who have sort of been the unofficial band, I guess they're. Totally official at this point, the official band. Of Faridine's Dance Fest, is going to do like a 70s, 80s New York City sort of CBGB style tribute to Escape from New York.

I know. Wow. Mike, that was such an exciting face. And at that point in time, while we've been going to all the festivities, they've constructed a wall around Lexington. You actually can't get out from Lexington.

And then Sunday we're showing the Missouri Breaks, also free, also at the Parrish Theater in the afternoon. And then in the evening we're showing Dillinger, John Milius' Dillinger, starring Michelle Phillips and also another Kentuckian, Warren Oates. And Michelle Phillips is going to be there. Not charging for autographs, but just hanging out and talking about. Her 40-year friendship.

Your grandmother should attend. Yeah. Is your grandma a big Michelle Phillips fan? No, my grandmother apparently is. to date Warren, I would say. Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. She dated some interesting people. She also apparently dated Freddie Blassie, and I remember she was talking. What? Yeah.

And her exact comment, she. Said, Oh, yeah, Freddie and I were together for some months. And he used to like to wrestle outside of the ring, too. I was like, oh, God. Grandma, Grandma, no.

She's hard to book. She's got a price tag attached from right here. Yeah, right. We're still waiting for that funding to kick in for all these things, man. Apparently, when Warren Oates was at UofL, she was at UofL.

Wow. And he was always kind of a wild man. Mm-hmm. Apparently she was. She's a preacher's daughter, isn't she?

That's trouble. Well, that's fantastic. It's traumatizing to date. Well, it's cool that you're spreading it out and having the John Carpenter thing, too. It's kind of neat.

Yeah! We invited Mr. Carpenter, also with Kentucky ties. He will not be joining us this year, but perhaps one day. Does he not know we're best friends with Fred?

I mean, he should come hang out with that Poor child that he traumatized. I feel that way, too. I feel like he does to the family. I didn't go to the front night that he was there, but I heard that he was kind of soured at that event. Well, I think it was one of the first of the shows that he decided to go to because it's gotten to that point where, well, I kind of need to go to shows to get some income.

Yeah. And I think it was a sizable price tag to get John, probably $ 20, 000 or more. He wasn't charging a ton, though, which I was surprised by. Yeah, but he had plenty of lines. Yeah, the line was there, but I expected him to actually be charging more than he was, so that was kind of nice from my end.

We tried years ago to get John to come to Wonderfest, and I thought I had an in because my cousin's wife's parents were friends of him and his parents, and they even got to go socially in Bowling Green. I thought, boy... Craig will get this going. You work any angle you got. Thank you.

He was not interested in coming to a show. Too bad, because he has a vast audience of people who grew up with his movies. Good stuff. So with that, have we gotten the plugs out? Oh, no.

No, not at all. I was waiting for yours to kick in. I've been waiting. That was my job. I should have asked the pointed question.

You don't have anything you're working on now, Mike, do you? Oh, not at all. So Pleased to Meet Me is now available on iTunes. Just search iTunes Pleased to Meet Me. Also, just recently did a podcast with Film Specific, Stacey Parks of Film Specific on iTunes distribution.

And so that's it. If you're wondering how to get your film on iTunes and wondering how to keep it on iTunes, it's a good podcast to listen to. Not a conflicting podcast or anything. I don't trust those other podcasts, but what have you seen? Film Specific is a great service.

Anybody who doesn't know about it should know about it. Definitely pleased to meet me on iTunes. $ 12. 99 plus tax. Support Indie Film. This is how we make another movie.

It's by selling the first movie. Most definitely. It's part of the system. That's right. That wouldn't be by none other than Archie Borders, would it?

Yes, yes, absolutely. My partner, Archie Borders. Two stars in this movie. Well, it's funny you should ask. Are we in Archie's office?

Is he going to have space down here? The Incredible John Doe. Friend of Movie Meltdown. Pleased to meet you. Friend of Movie Meltdown.

And future guest of Harry Dean Stanton. That's right, that's right. Also, Amy Mann, who's a favorite of just about everybody. Who loitered out in front of my house for a while. Wow.

Several times. Amy's fantastic. Yeah. Amy is fantastic. She's actually retweeting all of our tweets, which is fantastic.

She actually responded to me that day. I was like, quit following me around, David. She was like, oh, sorry about that. I was surprised. Amy's great.

She had only done Big Lebowski, and then. Portlandia. She did an episode of Portlandia. And then other than some music video stuff, she had never really acted before. But she was a champ throughout that entire movie.

She just took the bull by the horns and really showed people how to do it. She came prepared every single day. She knew her lines. She knew her marks. She was great.

Loved working with her. Joe Henry, another one who was just a real calming presence on the set. Loudon Wainwright, He was really good. Loudon is amazing. Yeah, his scenes were really cool.

Loudon is amazing. And so to watch him through the eyepiece, you know, I mean, I'm worried about 15 other things. It's Archie's job to worry about his performance. I'm worried about the other stuff. And so finally getting to see all the nuances of his performance in the films.

It has really been a lot of fun because I pick up something new every time I watch it. And trust me, I've seen it about 400 times. But I never get tired of it. So, $ 12. 99 plus tax on iTunes.

Pleased to meet me. Buy it today. And if folks watch carefully, they'll see Brian. It's true. I might just be in there for a second.

I figured you would have cut me out just for that very reason. No, absolutely. We cut a lot of people out, but you were not one of them. You were in there. I'll take it.

For now. For now. Until I get my starring role in one of the upcoming features. But we'll see how that goes. Well, we have two more of the works.

All right. So now we've gotten our promotion out of the way. We can move into the. But wait, there's more. And if you act now, we'll throw in a free Ginsu knife.

Where are we going with these? All right. Let's take a break here and come back with this week's feature. Hang on St. Christopher to the smoke in the arm Buckle down the rumble seat, let the radiator form Got an overhead dial shift and a two dollar grill Got an 85 cabin on an.

85 hill Hang on St. Christopher on the passenger side Open it up at night, the devil can ride. Hang on St. Christopher with a barrel house dog. And now, before the next show starts, let's.

Enjoy an intermission. You'll find our snack bar chock full of good. Things to eat and drink. Tasty, tempting hot. Dogs, thirst-quenching soft drinks, fresh, crunchy popcorn, a complete assortment of delicious candy, and a full.

Line of cigarettes. You've plenty of time, so visit the snack bar now. A tasty treat will double your enjoyment of the show. For your convenience, we shall keep you informed of the remaining intermission time. In 1998, six million violent incidents took place in American high schools, including 29,927 teacher fatalities.

The public school system has been reduced to a battlefield. But the Board of Education has just found a solution. Tommy! The perfect solution. You're next, Mr.

Cope. For the class of 1999. Where are you? The class of 1999. These androids were supposed to educate the students.

Battle droids, Miles. Battle droids. To graduate is to survive. Want some music for your ears? Doo-Wop Shop makes it easy to rent for any event, business meeting, or special occasion.

From PA systems to karaoke machines to just about anything that makes noise, you can rent it from the Doo-Wop Shop. In Louisville, find them either at their Highland Store at 1587 Bardstown Road or in the East End at 2915 South Hurstburn Parkway. And look for them online at DooWopShop.com. Doo-Wop Shop. We're serious about music.

So as I said, we've been to the Chicago Wizard World before, so they've got quite a few. They've got a lot. They're all over the country. That's what I was going to say. Since they're inviting us to hang around here, I thought we would go ahead and give the rundown.

That's the difference with this one is it's not just in one city. It's something they've done kind of everywhere now. They've sort of taken over. So you can go to WizardWorld.com and find out where they are in the near future. The rundown of the upcoming ones, Minneapolis in May.

The end of May into June is Atlanta. You've got Philadelphia after that, San Antonio, back to Chicago, Richmond. So it's like anywhere in this general part of the country, you know, the United States. Are you stopping at Richmond because we've got more to go? Oh, there's plenty.

That's what I'm saying. Nashville, Austin, Ohio. I kind of just, Ohio is just generalized. You know that state. But anyway, yes, you can go to wizardworld.com and find out where the next show will.

Be near you. You should definitely go. Come hang out. That's what we're doing. Definitely check out wizardworld.com for all of your wizard world type needs.

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Tweaked Audio earbuds come with a one-year warranty, and now there's a special deal for Movie Meltdown listeners. Just go to tweakedaudio.com, and when you check out, enter the discount code MELTDOWN. Then you'll get 33% off and free shipping. Tweaked Audio. Sounds better.

Hi, this is Tom Adkins, or Detective Ray Cameron. You're listening to Movie Meltdown. Thrill me, baby. It's part of your. Problem, you know.

You haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles. Are answered in the movies. And now, on with the show. It's time for Sofa Theater.

Okay, I'm ready for my inklight test now. It absolutely flips me. Now, while you're fresh with all those roses in your cheeks. It's a psychiatrist! My God, Rick!

Help me! Casablanca. All right, Katshaw, please sit down. What do you see? An old woman in funny clothes blowing poison darts at a buffalo.

Bison. My whole life rushing past me in an instant. This one? Kafka talking to a bedbug. Correct.

You're full of shit, you know that? I thought it was Kafka. You wouldn't know Kafka from Betty Davis. And you, you're a mental case. Yes, maybe I am.

Ingratiating bastard. Do you always play kiss-ass with the loonies? No. I like you, Cain. You're regular.

San Antonio, it's really good to see you. It's been a while, but you've been on my mind. I've seen your rolling hills and winding rivers. So clear that I could almost make them mine. I can almost see the old Bandera Highway Stretching out of Puerto Mexico And the times we used to walk down by.

The river. Now it seems like such a long, long time ago but you've been on my mind. I've been a lot of places, but I think I've always known one day I'd come back to San Antonio. All right, welcome back to Moving Out Down Sofa Theater. This week's Sofa Theater feature is The Ninth Configuration.

The year is 1980. Director William Peter Blatty. The plot, according to IMDb, it's as good as it always is on there. A new commanding officer arrives at a remote castle serving as an insane asylum for crazy and AWOL U.S. Army soldiers, which already that's kind of wrong, where he attempts to rehabilitate them by allowing them to live out their crazy fantasies while combating his own long-suppressed insanity.

Spoiler alert. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, we'll throw out the spoiler alert now. We probably are going to ruin the whole thing. And this is an often overlooked and sometimes completely forgotten movie.

So you probably should. Go watch it. I'd say it's worth watching, especially if you like anybody involved in it. It's definitely worth seeing. So you've been warned.

Spoiler alert. Go watch it right now. But before we get into our thoughts on the movie, we actually have not one but two trips to the old vaults. Yes, in preparation for this episode, I've talked to two different actors from this film. The first of which is arguably the lead in the film, but we can get to that later.

First up, we talked to, just a few weeks ago in fact, Scott Wilson. And I will warn you now, it's a very quick discussion on the ninth configuration. And basically, we kept getting distracted. And it's sometimes by weird fans. Speaking of bad convention fans, as that woman jumped on him and made him pick her up in the air.

He's not a young guy. Don't make him lift you up. This was a grown woman. For God's sakes. Yeah, weird fans.

So they were bugging him half the time. And so it got a little segmented anyway, dealing with them. So it's not as focused or as long as I would have liked it. But again, he'd been there all day. He was worn out.

So. Let's see what he at least had to say on his take with 9th Configuration. What your memories were on making that one. Oh, they were incredible. 17 weeks we were in Budapest and surrounding, like in Germany and Vienna and Austria.

So that was, you know, that was another great experience. Yeah. And then William Peter Blatty, I guess, what was he like as a director and a writer? I loved working with him. He's a great writer, director, and I love him as a person.

Was there any, like, again, that being a weird situation, any specific stories you remember of stuff going on on the set during that one? You know, there's so many I couldn't get into. If I was told one, it would open up a whole door for. For a way too long interview. Definitely.

Right. But let's just say that the cast of The Night Configuration was wonderful. I really enjoyed working with them. So other than that, he seemed to have a good experience with it, but yeah, we didn't quite get to some of those other stories, which wasn't really his fault. It wasn't the best of circumstances.

So maybe somewhere down the line we'll sit down with him and get more of that. But I also, in fact, quite a while back, When I first started planning this episode, that's the sad part, is I've been planning this one for years now. I talked with Tom Adkins, who did have some stories, and it's pretty damn entertaining. So let's see what Tom has to say. It was an impressive cast.

It was a hell of a script, too. It was a wonderful script. Unfortunately, I don't think William Peter Pilati got the movie he wrote on the screen. And It was crazy. It was one of the most insane jobs I've ever had in my life.

And here's why. Ordinarily, my part would have worked two weeks in the States, but he wanted a big ensemble effort in the acting thing. He took all these guys, 22 guys, to Budapest, Hungary, For two and a half months, we ended up in that half month in Austria, shooting the end of it. Well, the final scene, I don't know if it was the actual end of the movie, but two months in Hungary and a half a month in Austria. He had a bunch of crazed men after a while.

It was insanity. I always thought a movie about the making of that movie would have been a better movie than the movie we ended up making. Sometimes they end up like that. Yeah. Wonderful cast, though.

Great guys. Joe Spinell and Jason Miller and Moses Gunn, Neville Brand, Bob Loja, George DiCenzo. Oh, it was a swell bunch of fellas. And Stacy Keach, Scott Wilson. Yeah.

Good hell of a group you know stacy keach was not the original guy though nicole williamson was the original guy but he only he lasted a week and a half in budapest and then threw everything out of the hotel window and got kicked out of the country we had to start over again that's the truth what prompted it There weren't any cell phones in those days. 78, you had to talk, you know, and you depended on their phone system. We were behind the Iron Curtain at the time. We were not friends with Russia at the time. But Russia controlled Hungary.

And everybody was paranoid because you would have these KGB guys following you down the street, going into the bar, sitting next to you, asking you stupid questions. And. And the worst was you'd be in the middle of a phone conversation with your wife in California and it would end. It would just be over. You're done.

And for no reason. And I guess Nicole was having some troubles in England. Family, I don't know if he was going through a divorce or what, but one phone call too many ended in the middle of a desperate conversation, I guess. And he threw everything in his hotel room out the front window. Everything that would fit went out the window.

And that was the end. That was it for him. I would think that would do it. Something like that happened all the way to me. Not the rock stars, though, was it?

No, it wasn't. It was a grip. Completely out of control. Bunch of weirdos. He told him, get a grip.

I never heard any really detailed account. It was a difficult production, but I never heard any stories. That's what I've heard. I don't think I ever heard about Nicole Williamson, which is very interesting since she showed up in Exorcist 3. Well, that's the thing.

I think Vladdy really loved him as an actor. He had a big thing with him on stage. He loved his stage work. And then. He lost it there, but I think he had always wanted to get it, which I think he had said he actually had Keech in mind first, but he just had such a love for his acting that he tried to bring Nicole in, and that didn't work out.

So, yeah, I guess that's how Exorcist 3 came back around for him. But I guess thank you to both of them for sharing their stories, and Tom definitely had some entertaining stories. As we get into it, I thought I was the only one that loved bringing visual gags to an audio show. I also have this. Dave, I think you have something, too.

But this ties to you, and this is the reason this has been yours in the making. The reason I knew about this movie was from you. And it was odd. We'd already set this up. I'd already scheduled it out with you guys.

And earlier this week, in a box, I ran across this VHS tape that I bought because you recommended. It to me. It's a really cheap one. Very cheap. From Suncoast.

It's an EP. It feels pretty heavy. I think it was a better quality for this restaurant. They made quality stuff. I think it's SP.

Yeah. It is, yeah. I remember days where you could tell EP. Oh, yeah. This is an SP.

I remember this hitting the bargain wall. It was a lot of Anchor Bay stuff. Which used to be junk. It's funny how much later they started becoming pretty good at putting out stuff. I remember getting excited when that came in because I had only seen rental copies before.

And I was like, oh, yeah, you've got to watch this. It's a really cool movie. You can get it on DVD for about $ 17 now, though. Yeah. You don't necessarily have to watch this VHS tape of mine.

We're going to pass it around the Internet. But I did not see it when it came out. I remember Louisville, I think we talked about it on other shows, Louisville used to be a major test market for film. They considered us to be, you know, middle America. And a lot of studios would have.

Preview screenings here, test screenings. And they would quiz the audiences. You'd fill out forms and do interviews sometimes. And I remember Ninth Configuration getting a big push here at Showcase. It was like a special advanced preview.

And of course, they were doing their best to try to make it look creepy and scary. because it's from The Exorcist Guide. William Peter Blatty. Just like they tried to do the same thing with Sorcerer, with William Friedkin's movie. Which did not work. But I remember seeing the artwork and seeing the really weird TV commercials for 9th Configuration where they were keeping it about as obscure as possible and being intrigued, but I didn't see it.

I didn't see it until, I think I saw it on cable. And then we had a festival at the Vogue where it was the greatest movies no one has ever seen. Which, it's amazing how much I still run across those. As much as we've. Talked about stuff.

You know, I'm trying to remember what the other ones were. We had some good stuff. I'll have to actually go through the calendar and see. But it was a month-long thing. A different movie every month.

And I honestly can't remember. But the one I was really pushing for was Ninth Configuration. When it came time to try to find a print, we could not find a print. So we got William Peter Blatty's print. No kidding.

Got his personal print. Got in touch with him through the booker. And he's like, yeah, whatever standard rental is, just take care of it. And it was his print, which is the sort of slightly alternate cut, which is the one that's on DVD now. And we watched that after hours a couple times, and then with the screening, I think we ran it two or three times.

And that's the first time I saw it. What's so funny is that when you mentioned this film, I thought, oh, when am I going to have time to squeeze in a film that I haven't seen yet? And I must have blocked it from memory because. As a kid, I had seen this film on cable, swear note, less than 20 times. I loved this movie.

It was kind of a staple for cable. I ran around as a kid saying, I am a Buddhist in case of an accident, please call the llama. That was my signature line to everybody. And somehow, I guess through, you know. Drug use or whatever.

I had blocked out the fact that I had seen this movie so many times, but as soon as I called it up on screen, it was just like Nostalgia City. I remembered almost every line. It was great. And there's a lot of keepers in there. There's a lot of stuff that gets fired out.

In another movie, that would be like the line, but I'm like, there's like 20 of them he just threw out in this one scene. What's wild? Twos, threes, fours, fives, sevens, eights, nines, and jacks. There's so many. Everything Scott Wilson says after a while, I'm just like, slow down.

I can't keep up with these hilarious lines. The one thing that I never understood about this movie was the opening musical montage with Hello San Antonio. It was just this awful song. It was so bad. Which I think that was one of the things he was toying with, not having in some cuts.

Because I think he even said there were like 17 different cuts over the years. And like, I thought at one point that wasn't. He had it opened on Scott Wilson being dragged out of the capsule. And that's just this gut-wrenching, you know, because Scott was just so, he just, he pulled. That off so well.

There's just this screaming, terrified astronaut and just. completely sucks you into the movie at that point, but you waste the first three minutes on this song. This dreamy opening. I kind of liked it. Well, I kind of liked the song, too, as a mood piece. Well, but I also thought, because I was watching it, I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be so 70s.

Yeah. This is so, like, what this movie is going to be. And then even there's, like, that lyric about, like, gazing out the window, and he's been gazing out the window, and it's like, oh, God, what have I signed myself up for? But then you see that it's on a cassette, and he rewinds it to listen to it again, and you're like, oh, this is his point of view. And then it goes immediately to the moment rising and all that really surreal imagery, and I think that's Blatty pulling a fast one on the audience.

Right, right. Because. We're talking about adaptations, and Blatty's a good adapter of his own work. Especially of his own work. He's an exceptionally good director.

Just doesn't get a chance to do it very often. Right. But it really throws you when it goes from that moment. For. People who only know him through The Exorcist, this is such.

A. It's a real right turn. He goes in a completely different direction, but he's still. He still explores all those forbidden borders. This is Blatty's theology.

I got very into Blatty because of a late friend of ours, Ed Mather, whose favorite film was The Exorcist and his second favorite film was The Ninth Configuration. These films made him a Catholic. I kind of laughed about it at the time, but then he got into the roots of what Blatty wrote about are based on Teilhard de Chardin's activity and his beliefs, who was a very progressive Catholic teacher and archaeologist, who was basically Merritt and the exorcist is the real Teilhard. And he had the whole philosophy that is expressed by Scott Wilson's character, that perhaps God can't change what he started, and we need to be examples, and that everyone's working towards evolution individually. And that's all in Ninth Configuration.

It's kind of in The Exorcist, too. Yeah, there's weird little ties that go through. So he's got this very powerful Catholic philosophy that's pretty progressive, and it's neat to see it in his films. And he carried it out pretty strongly in Ninth Configuration, where it's got a very odd, happy ending. Yes.

A very spiritual ending to a very strange film. I haven't seen There Is a Heaven, but I feel like that's how There Is a Heaven ended as well. Is that the name of that movie? I think, yeah, the one that just came out. Or Heaven's Real.

Yeah, Heaven's Real. I feel like that's probably what the ending of that was, where there's just a shot of a beaming face, and then it freezes on that. He's like, wait, there really. Is an afterlife. Ding!

Complete with the ding. Ding! Ding! There was a ding at the end, wasn't there? Did I just imagine the ding?

Just reflecting off the petals. Right, right, right. Which, I don't know, do we want to start getting into that kind of specific stuff, or do we want to get the overall? Yeah, no, I don't know. It's pretty esoteric there at the end.

Well, one of the things I really, from a technical standpoint, that I'd like to hear about is everybody's opinion on the side conversations that you hear happening in full, you know, they're not background. I mean, they're fully present. It was weird audio mixing. Strange audio mixing for any other film. But the way that I interpreted that was that these are all the voices that are supposed to be going on in your head as a viewer when you're watching this.

He's planting these audio images in your head to confuse you while you're watching it and intrigue you. Well, it gets you kind of the feel as to what it would be like to be in that environment as well. Just, you know, the constant distraction thing, it's like, is it that these people cannot focus as a result of their own personal, like, demons or what have you, or is it the environment that they've been put in that only exacerbates the problem more? Right. Yeah, it takes you and puts you way off balance, just like everybody is supposed to be in that place.

And there come, you know, eventually the question arises, because a lot of these guys, oh, they're just faking. These guys are just faking. And maybe some of them are. And maybe some of them aren't. But when the crisis actually erupts, everybody kind of straightens out for a while.

And it shows that, you know, you can cut through that. It's very theatrical. That's what I always felt watching the movie. It's almost like watching a play. I think he started adapting a play is what he said, yeah.

But originally it was based on a novel. Yeah. Actually a novel he wrote twice. And then adapted very differently for the film, so. Yeah, because he started working on it once and then they pulled that out from under it because it was supposed to be more of a just like crazy guys, you know, in that kind of scenario.

And like he was taking a long time writing it or whatever. And the studio was like, what are you doing? He's like, well, I'm trying to figure out the theology. And they went, all right, we're done. Like immediately, like they're just like, I don't think this is going to work.

And it really was like years. I think it was before The Exorcist when he was doing all that. And it wasn't until afterwards when he had a little clout that he got a chance to come back and make it. Twinkle, Twinkle, Killer Kane was the first novel. And the film was actually titled that variously at times as well.

They were trying to market it. Let's go with this for a while. That never worked out. But then he rewrote it as Ninth Configuration, which is pretty interesting. Well, it's one of those you get.

I mean, it's not until you get about two-thirds of the way in before you really figure out what the movie is that you're watching, because that middle portion, you get into, like, you're just watching Dr. Tarr and Professor Finn. It's just like you hit this scenario of, like, what's the weirdest group of people we can throw together and watch them just wander around and be crazy? And, like, there's so many moments when you're just like, that's insane. Oh, wait, no, that's insane.

The dogs. Is possibly one of the funniest things I've ever seen. And that was, it is one of those things like you don't expect that from him, but then you find out he was like. More or less a comedy writer before he started. And he meant it to be like, the first two thirds of this is basically a comedy and it's how he wrote it until it gets super dark and heavy.

We were talking earlier too. I said, it's almost kind of reminds me of an Altman film in the sense that it's just got a huge ensemble. Cast and a lot of like decent names. At the time and so it's just he's working all these giant parts of like this Rube Goldberg device to kind of get to the end until you realize a lot of them are just sort of ancillary to. Him and because of the talent they pull it off because if you had lesser people doing these kinds of crazy roles.

Like Robert Lozier. And then when you get to the big twists where he's my brother that's hard to sell That's just like, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, but that guy pulls it off. The doctor pulls that off so well. You buy it, it's like, wow, this is preposterous. And it's funny how much, again, Blatty being so close to it and how many years he worked on it, when you, like, from his take, you go back and he's planted all these little seeds throughout it.

It's like this statue over here is two brothers, and it's like he's supposedly setting you up that there's some sort of subconscious thing that's picking up on these So by the time you get to that convenient reveal, you're like, okay, well, I mean, you know, so it's not so like, again, it's, it's like a weird thing that he thinks is working on your brain that you're picking up along the way, which I don't know that everybody is, but it's funny that he puts that much effort into the, the overall story that it, it is just that last third more or less, but he's worked it in that there's those creepy moments in the. Beginning here and there. And there's those little hints that what's going to happen later that, He definitely had it all planned out ahead of time.

Don't you feel as though that the crazy people were cliched crazy people, though? Some of them? Wearing the bathrobe and wearing the Mad Hatter's hat. Sure. Dressing up as a superhero.

I think it's all very conscious. Wearing flippers. Mm-hmm. This is also post-Cuckoo's Nest. Everything kind of has to feel like it's that.

Yeah, they were all sort of crazy tropes. All these guys were playing those kind of roles, but then they were injecting some pretty hilarious dialogue into it. Definitely some hilarious dialogue and definitely some convincing performances, but the exterior of these actors I thought was clichéd, and whether that was intentional or not, I thought it was a detractor. I felt as though it was a detractor. And looking back on the film in a modern.

Age, you know, looking back 37 years now, it's, yeah, it took me out of the. Moment for a while. But then you also kind of got to look at it, too, to where it's like, you know, was that Laddie making it to make them like stereotypical inmates, or was it more their influence, like they thought, okay, if I was an. Inmate in this asylum, what would I look to? I might look to things like one flew over the cuckoo's nest, and so it's like, If I'm going to imitate an inmate, or if I'm going to imitate somebody who's crazy, that is what I'm going to imitate.

Since a lot of them, it is very ambiguous as to whether it's legitimate problems. They all are faking. It's a very adversarial situation with the inmates and the people watching over them. So I think they're doing their best to try to drive them crazy as well. Pulling the props and all the wackiness.

It might be just them acting the part that they think they're supposed to act. They're so sane they don't even know how to act. That's right. That's ridiculously sane. I got a very Clinger vibe midway through, too.

I'm just like, I'm going to be weird, but I'm still kind of going to continue doing what I normally do. I don't know. I feel like that probably should have been the philosophy. I'm just going to do it in a nurse's outfit. You guys can do whatever weird thing you want to do, but keep doing your work, right?

That was the Clinger philosophy there, right? I think he's sneaking things in under the guise of all that stuff. Like I said, that's why it hits you pretty hard when it gets serious. It's like, whoa, this really took a strange turn. It kind of does, that last third.

But again, I think that's the one that makes it work for me. I think that's what brings it all together. The first two thirds is entertaining, but if it just continued that way, I don't know that I would think it was a great movie. It would just be kind of fun. But it ties it together in a really interesting way with that last third.

Yeah. You're the psychiatrist, aren't you, Kane? Yeah, I thought so. I'm firm on the medical officer. Sure as hell glad you're with us.

I can use all the help I can possibly get. Gotcha. Up yours. Just answer, President. They are really far gone.

Perhaps. Perhaps. What are you, a union? Freudian? Some crazy new school of psychiatry?

These guys are nuttier than a wagon load of pralines. You get Keech arriving on the scene, who's pretty stoic and pretty controlled. You're not quite sure what to make of him until you gradually learn the truth about him. And on a side note with him, I don't think I'd ever paid attention, or maybe he's just, and I think very consciously. He always had the mustache.

In this, all of a sudden I went, did he. Have a cleft palate when he was born? And he did. Which I don't think I'd ever noticed. Yeah, it's very noticeable.

Fat City was the first time I ever saw him without a mustache. And I actually think he's amazingly sexy with those eyes. So do I. I was just, I know someone who was born that way. I'm like, that looks exactly like a cleft palate scar.

Is that Joaquin Phoenix? No, personally. Although maybe I can hang out with Joaquin. We'll see how that pans out. But I mean.

But no, I think that was just kind of an interesting real-world thing that he's so much had that mustache over the years that it was just odd seeing it without it. And maybe that's why, now that it was probably a very conscious thing in his acting career. Don't hide it, Stacey. He's still out there. You can still find him.

I know this. I've tried and failed to stalk Stacey Keach. It didn't work. He was on Broadway when we were in New York, and I was always trying to find excuses to pass. By the theater when they weren't showing up.

My friend was like, we just came down this street. I'm pretty sure he was like, no, no, no, no, we're just going to go. Back over here. I'm going to invite him to Harry Dean Stanton Fest. What were they in together?

I would in a heartbeat. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Just show up. Just show up.

Remember that night you and Harry were at Dan Dana's? That's right. You like Harry Dean Stanton movies, right? Good enough. Come on over.

Come on down. Why do you want me to? Shh? I don't see really where it has any shh. It's okay.

It's okay. It'll be sure and shave before we get here. Don't talk. I really like. Anyway.

But yeah, I don't know. You get to that midway point in this and it's like you get the crazy, like, I don't know, especially once it gets to the point where he starts getting funding for them. And when they get funding for the Nazi outfits and for them to start digging a hole and reenact the Great Escape, it's a very special level of crazy at that point. And pretty satirical about what the government would actually do. And they probably would fund this.

They probably would have. Yeah, Arkham has changed my entire perception of what the government is and. Is not willing to do. If that were a fictional film, you'd be like, what? Seriously?

This is the stupidest premise ever. But no, not so much. I do like that they break that down at the beginning, and they're like, and this was the last one, and it was pretty experimental. Like, yeah, you think? Hamlet for dogs.

Just amazing little performances. I can't remember the actor who's the nun. I'm Sister Eve Black. I love that guy. Oh, yeah, he's the same guy.

He's the same guy with the discussion with the hammer. Yeah. Which is one of my favorite. I'm going to pass through this wall. And when Stacy pulls out, the problem may not be with the wall, but it may be the properties of the hammer.

And I'm going, that is so brilliant. All of those little interactions they had. I immediately took all the hammers out of my hand. There's a few more that like Stacy just launches into that stuff and you're like, that's. Pretty well written.

You've got to give him points for the dialogue alone on this. It's just very well structured. You can tell how much he thought out each little speech and interaction. That they had. Well, it's one of the things, as a writer-director, that you've got to have those little things that keep you guessing what this guy's story.

Is all about. So, you know, there's a 30,000-foot. View of this intentional. yet overused ploy that keeps people guessing about what a character's real purpose is in the film. And that was one of those moments. For me that was just so brilliant.

Not by the book. No. Which explains why. People didn't see it. People didn't respond.

People didn't like it. They had to think, as they often have to do and don't like. As that tie-in, you've brought the book. I'm assuming you've read that? I have read Only Ninth Configuration because I used to have the paperback of that.

I have not read Twinkle, Twinkle, Killer Kane. This is a paperback of Twinkle, Twinkle, Killer Kane not that long ago. This is one that Centipede put out. The guy who runs this press is a huge fan of Blatty. He did a special edition of The Exorcist and he did a nice one of the combined novels here.

He's got all the covers in here, the various versions, where they're trying to sell it in different ways. This is the one I had. The Exorcist. That's what you think the title is. Oh, here's the title down here.

Definitely a different vibe than you would get from that story. Just lots of different attempts by the companies to sell it. There's the one with the rocket ship and the asteroid. It looks like science fiction. Definitely.

This is the one that I've got. Does it vary much as far as just overall story? Just looking at it, yes. He injected a lot more into Ninth Configuration. the philosophical aspect. Yeah.

Um, and it's, it's far more centered on the two characters, you know, Keech and the astronaut and, uh, less of an ensemble type thing. But, uh, yeah, I got, I got this a couple of years ago. Uh, like I said, a close friend of ours passed away, uh, Ed Mather. And, uh, these were books that he cherished and, uh, movies that he cherished. And I kind of got this, uh, in remembrance of him.

And, uh, It's one of the strangest things in a lifetime of odd things, is I've never seen a person's real life mirror the fictions that he loved as much as Ed Mather's life mirrored The Exorcist and Ninth Configuration, down to his death. It's very interesting to see how it shaped his philosophy, and your philosophy shapes your life. And whether he meant to do it or not, he ended up dying in a very sacrificial way. He was murdered. And it actually did some good as a result.

So it's very odd to see that happen. And it gives his life more meaning. And you get into all the odd personal experiences, too, and linked to the exorcist. Yeah. All of which I generally believe happened to him.

He had some very odd experiences. You would call it supernatural events in his life. But he was obsessed with Teilhard de Chardin and his philosophies. And he ended up kind of living it out. It's very weird.

But I think I first saw A Ninth Configuration with him, like I said, at the Vogue, of course, when they ran it. And you never saw a more divided personality struggling with good and evil in his life daily. Well, that's kind of what becomes the whole thing with William Peter Blatty. It's like, is anybody familiar with Legion? Because supposedly this is like the trilogy and it's like the third piece.

Of it was Legion. Legion's a really good book. Yeah. The movie, Exorcist 3. It's a troubling movie because it's got a lot of really good stuff in it.

And it's another film that Blatty directed. Yeah, I remember liking a lot of stuff. It's got some very potent scares. I mean, some really jarring stuff. But it's got an exorcism in it which doesn't belong.

There's no exorcism in Legion. But the studio was like, well, yes, the exorcist. Exorcist 3 is how we're building this. They just sort of threw it in there out of nowhere. Oh, go ahead.

No, go ahead. Well, the only problem with Exorcist 3 is that you had to have Exorcist 2. True. We don't talk about that. What?

The heretic's a fine film. Yeah, I haven't seen Exorcist 3 since it came out, but it was actually. The first movie I ever saw, the first horror film I ever saw in a theater. And I was 14, and I remember it just terrified me. I mean, like, got under my skin for years.

I was always looking up at the ceiling as. I watched it. That seems disturbing. It really is. And so I remember parts of it vividly in a way that I don't remember movies from that long ago.

But I don't remember the exorcism scene at all. Right, because it's kind of a non-effect. It's just so funny. I didn't know about his relationship with Nicole Williamson. But when they started to force this situation on Blatty, He obviously thought, well, if I've got to have a priest, let's get Nicole in on this.

And then you start watching the movie and you realize he never interacts with anybody else in the film. He never interacts with Kinderman. I don't think they ever meet. They never interact. He just shows up, the door slides open, and he's there to perform the exorcism.

I'm here to fulfill my obligations. The movie gets derailed for a while. I think there is a cut. I think Blatty may have it where that's not in there. I'd like to see it.

Yeah. But the book Legion... He might load it to you. Probably. I'll try to find him again.

The book was quite good. And the book's a very philosophical novel about. There is good. There is good out there. And that's what all of these...

That's the thing. He bills it as the Exorcist is basically just this acknowledgement of evil in the universe. And that's pretty much all it is. And it leaves you with this there is no answer kind of take on it. And that's kind of what you get from it.

It's just like, here's evil. And yeah, this is, this is how the universe is. And then the middle section is the ninth configuration. And that's the one that he's, he's kind of like, then he brings the whole God's existence thing into it. And you get into like the mystery of goodness, which by the end of it gets to be a very heavy thing that they do.

And it's just, they, they, that thing that he points out that is like, why, if all we are these, you know, base creatures that worry about ourselves, that why do we do selfless things? And why do we love anybody? And why do we, you know, you know, sacrifice yourself kind of a thing. Both having those acts of altruism and like the final act too. Yeah.

Which I, and that's, it's funny. We mentioned that, that dreamy opening shot, the way that he originally wanted to open it. It's exactly tied into the thing he's got. It's a shot of them in Vietnam and he's, uh, it's just like American soldiers. And, one of them they're, they're moving through and there's this like Vietnamese woman that, that's hobbled or something and she can't walk.

And this American soldier picks her up on his back and for miles carries her and they get to this village and he sits her down and like turns around to talk to the other guys. And she under her dress pulls out a live grenade and throws it down. And that, that was the opening he originally wanted. And the studio kind of screwed him over and they told him there were going to be, Oh yeah, we can get you lots of Vietnamese extras. And like, they showed up and they got one kid that was in school there.

And he was just like, I guess I need to rewrite the opening now. So it's interesting knowing that, again, that's how he wanted to structure it originally and how much that like selfless act thing tied in from the very beginning that it was this, that's the whole key to this part of the little trilogy is just this mystery of goodness thing that he has. And then Legion is kind of the big finale in his trilogy in his head anyway, of how they like deal with, like that we I think he built it as we have we as human beings have chosen the suffering and like that's that again he just adds like a new layer to this weird theology every time he like adds more stuff to it I don't know I didn't know what everybody's take on this whole like grand scheme of of thinking and how deep he gets with all of this stuff.

Too heavy. Too heavy for everyone. Well, you know, what I'd like to know is, is if you had a choice to end the ninth configuration in another way, how would you. Have ended it? Not with the metal.

Which is another odd story that I can get to. Um, I mean, the metal is just sort of a tacked on thing that, I mean, he definitely sets up. It's part of the grand scheme, but it would still like if you took that scene out and you just showed maybe, you know, he's doing better now and he's, he's, yeah, he's just doing better and getting over it. But you see that his selfless act did actually do the good that he intended. I think it still works.

It still works. I think you could still do it without the weird happy, happy ending. You know, that's an imposed philosophy. Yeah. It's saying that we can make a difference.

We can make a difference by our choices. And that part's still there without that last scene. Throughout the film. Yeah. But it goes back to Blatty's basic faith, which he does have.

And I think he wants to just tack that on, saying there is something beyond us. And by choosing these paths, by choosing these selfless acts, maybe there's evidence of something further. And that's something that's in his writing. He wrote a book about his relationship with his mom. I'll tell them I remember you.

Which is where the metal story comes from. You heard that? Yeah. That it's based on reality for him. And then there's a mechanical bird that kind of comes to life and starts singing when he's trying to talk to his mother beyond the grave.

And it speaks to him. He's like, I know you don't believe me, but this happened. So he's trying to get that little edge of the supernatural in there. Yeah. Because he knows we largely want it, I think.

Is that what you're saying the metal story comes from? I was going to say I'm unfamiliar so I guess expand the listening audience. The way that he told it is like he had this really deep relationship with his mother and his mother died and he was like massively depressed and didn't get over it for like years but she had always worn these like two they were both sort of faith based little metal kind of things like necklace kind of thing and when they were taking care of the body. He, they asked if he wanted anything and he said, yeah, I want one of these. And he took one of them and he wore it around and he always wore it, but she had two and he didn't take the other one.

So he didn't know if they kept it or they buried her with it or whatever. And then at one point it was like years later and he's like, he was cities in the bathroom and he heard this jingling and on the necklace is the other metal. And he has no idea how he got it. He's like, I didn't take it. I didn't put it on there.

And one day it was just there. With the other one. I'm like, that's, so that's almost exactly how the, you know, the metal works its way into the ninth configuration. But in his real life, that's how he tells the story of what happened. So, which is very Hollywood eyes ending.

Yeah. You know, as a viewer, I felt I was gratified, you know, I was paid off by the ending of the film, but as a thinker, I was like, Oh, come on. Why'd you have to do that well and the line was so much funnier the first time he says it before it has any meaning yes because his his like i'll see what i can do like it's just played off so deadpan that he's just like all right whatever and then later it becomes heavy and meaningful i'm like well that kind of robs the fun of it now like i really like i did laugh at that line when he said that and then later it was like odd how much meaning it ended up having. But I didn't like the voiceover reminder, though. Yeah, it was not subtle.

I was just going to say that. But this is not. Really a subtle movie. No. The religious imagery is kind of thrust upon you quite often.

The voiceover reminder almost made me, and not knowing too much of the behind-the-scenes story about that, I thought that the ending was an add-on. It was a studio add-on. It feels like it. So they had to throw a voiceover reminder in there just to bring it back in. I'm sure it was at some point.

Yeah. I'd like to actually see the script. I've never actually looked at the script. I'm sure he'd load it to you. We go way back.

Way back. But I know there is one that that selfless act isn't so specific as well. He said, and this wasn't even his doing, this was Stacy Keech at one point asked him to shoot a take without the knife in his hand. So that he. made this conscious act to just sort of let himself bleed out, and that was the sacrifice, versus the actual really shoving a knife into himself, very direct, I'm going to kill myself to save you kind of a thing. And how about the sacrifice?

I mean, in terms of purity. I mean, you know, they talk about scenarios, and it's just like, well, that would just be suicide. I mean, it's not like he just got a new job, and his wife's like, they're having a baby, and everything's looking great for Stacey Keach. It's not like he's giving up. Anything death is still death i mean but to me it was sort of like a weird far-fetched thing like so yeah in this weird hollywood scenario it worked out but i'm like most of the time just be like oh well and he's crazy for the rest of his life i mean it's kind of a rare thing that this idea of his that the shock therapy that he did would actually work.

Which was adorable i really liked it it was i do yeah psychology as well. I do like that he sort of made up his own way of dealing with it. Shock therapy. He really did find a literal, real-world, non-electronic way to shock him into being well again. It is interesting.

Do we think that he was ever not well? Or was it just a misplaced sacrifice as well? Where he's like, oh, God, I'm a dick. I shouldn't have put him in this position. I shouldn't have put anybody in this position.

I didn't feel... Like, I felt like him... Like, listening to the song at the beginning. I mean, you're still not fully well, even if you're pretending not to be well, though. I think it could be argued.

Well, I mean, he definitely obviously had some existential shit going down, but who doesn't? Were you saying, was he well before the Vietnam issues? No, not Stacy Keith. Okay. I just want a t-shirt that says that.

I definitely got some weird existential shit going down, but who doesn't? Who doesn't? Those will be available in a couple weeks. Yeah, just check both versions, and the metal's not in it. Like I said, it is an add-on, and I don't know if Blighty decided to adapt or if they just decided to.

Again, it is very convenient. One's very close. That he has a real-life story that fits perfectly with the way to wrap this up. I would venture to guess, the way I interpret films, that no, he was not crazy to begin with. The whole crazy ploy was a way to justify being.

A gigantic wimp. It's the only way he could do it. It's the only way he could feel good at night is if he convinced himself. So I think he genuinely tried to convince himself that he was nuts. Sometimes you go crazy to keep yourself from going crazy.

That's right. But then he saw that this act had real world consequences. And that's what That's what yanked him out. That's him. I know that's him.

You're demented. Up yours. I've seen his picture in the paper. You don't read the papers, Stanley. You're an illiterate.

Then TV, you asshole. Look at him. Look at his face. That's the astronaut, the one that lost his marbles. What would he be doing in a joint like this?

How the fuck do I know? Look, they have all types of those army wackos stashed up in that Biltmore dump. Well, he could be one of them. I don't know. But that's him.

I swear it. I'm positive. Well, how positive is positive, Stanley? You want a bet? Yeah, how.

Much? Just a beer? And a shot in the mouth? Eat on it. And let me give a special shout-out to Steve Sandor, who played the biker with the eyeliner.

Oh, man. Stanley's great. Tour de Force. Hanging out with Richard Lynch, by the way. Yeah, Richard Lynch.

One of the brilliant characters. You can't find a scarier guy. That dude was amazing. You know, I went back and IMDb'd him and just looked at all the, you know, we're talking the $ 6 million. Man, fall guy, magnum PI.

I mean, he was in every. He was the badass in every TV show during the late 70s and early 80s. Well, as they first got him to that scene, I'm like, that's a very specific outfit he's got going there. And that shirtless vest and the kerchief going on to the side there. I'm like, what is he saying?

Oh, okay. That's a lot of eyeliner, dude. And then the splits. I'm like, that was an interesting maneuver. It's just finding a new weird way to make it like, odd 70s things jammed in there.

It's the one element of the film you can point to that almost anybody's going to watch and go, wow. That bar fight, that whole sequence is just this gem that just takes over and just completely... involves and horrifies you as it's happening you're like it changes the tone yeah completely yeah yeah you're just rooting for the worst possible thing to occur and you're the last please kill. Everyone the only time the only time you're not in that crazy house basically I mean You spend the whole rest of the movie in there, in the castle. Which is then weird that the real world in the context of this film is scarier than what's inside. Of the castle.

Far more savage. These guys were innocents, you know, in the manhouse, but they get out into the world and it's like, we need to tear them up. I do feel like that's the scene where the one false note that I felt that really sort of upset me with the whole film, because I think I would otherwise really love the film, was like when the waitress goes to the phone and instead of calling the police, she's like, I need information for this weird, secret, hidden castle. That everybody seems to know about. Which, by the way, was Blatty's wife.

Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. I have to go with his cameo as well. He's in there with crazy people. His son is actually the little boy.

He was Vincent, little Vincent. Oh, cool. Right off the field. I don't know. There's a few more heavy, weird stuff.

And one of them I think is interesting and I don't even know if it was intended, but I feel like it adds an extra layer to what's going on is the fact that it's because we've talked about them adding the metal in or working in this metal story. But to me, it's really interesting that it's a St. Christopher's metal because, and this was, after the point when it was, you know, cause that's the thing I started going, when was this? Like, when did they make this call of like, maybe he's not a saint. And then as I checked, it's like, the reason they did that is because they realized he may not even be a real person.

He may not have existed. So we can't really call him a saint. And that's why they sort of decanonized him or whatever. So now we've got this whole thing that's built on faith. So you're like, you're, you have faith in something or someone.

That, may or may not actually exist. So, again, I don't know that that was planned out, but it's funny that that's the metal that it ended up being, and it ties kind of exactly with the whole theology of what's going on here. Yeah, I can't remember if the metal in The Exorcist is the St. Christopher's metal or not. They did draw that tie that it is similar to the same Tausman kind of feeling.

Yeah, and that's something he consciously chose to put in this film, too. Even as deep as this film goes, or any of his other films, I would say that that... Choosing something that didn't really... I'd say that's way too far down. The rabbit hole.

Even for Blatty. But I think it adds a layer to it that I'm like, this ties in perfectly with what you're saying already, so it's even weirder if you didn't plan it. This is like finding hidden meanings in Die Hard. This is what we do. And there are a lot of layers to Die Hard.

Yeah. So then, okay, if we're going to go into these also deep meanings. So, you know, when we were doing Satan's Little Helper, it was like everyone was extrapolating meanings, and I was just tempted to take the table. Stop! Stop it!

Stop! What about if Satan was. Speaking of Satan. Well, maybe the helicopter sounds. No!

There's a flashlight! Stop it! Stop it! Just stop! Couldn't even buy stock footage.

90% of the decisions that are made in films are driven by budget. Oh, yeah. And even, like, there are plenty of stuff that he says. But it's like stock footage of a helicopter versus a flashlight. Or just go outside.

They had a video. The helicopter's going to fly by at some point. They couldn't even do it. They couldn't even do it. They had to use a flashlight.

Or if you're really guerrilla filmmaking, say you've lost your child in that general vicinity. Call him up. We're back on that. Try to escape. See, look, it came back.

Oh, it comes back. That's our trauma, Brian. You're welcome. That's our Vietnam flashback is Satan's little helper day. Well, this one, I mean, we've got so much of people deciding... what what is.

Real and what is it anyway you get to the theology but then you've also got the soldiers which you get this whole game by the end of like okay were they faking their insanity were they not faking their insanity you know it's all so there's to me yeah there's parallels with all this stuff that then you've also got the like is what's his name um cutshaw you've got cutshaw which for the extra tie-in you you did see he's the same character from the exorcist right that's the astronaut that comes to the mom's party and she comes out and says, you're going to die up there in Vladdy's world. That's all interconnected, which maybe that's why he freaks out and doesn't want to go in space. A little crazy girl just predicted his death and Peter.

So, but then, um, then you get this whole other like parallel with like, so you've got the, you've got him, you've got cut shell, not wanting to go in space. Um, Because of the emptiness, basically. The loneliness and emptiness of being out there in space and being stranded and having nothing out there. And then you've got the entire rest of the end of this movie that is dealing with theology. Is there a God?

You've got Cutshall. His whole argument is that there is no God. He might as well just be a big foot. It's all made up. So it's like, okay, is this some weird...

It's all made up because then we don't have to deal with the emptiness of what's not out there. It's very similar lines there. But when Cain asks him, as he's dying, why don't you want to go to the moon? And he's saying, if there's no God. He's not saying, because there's no God, I'll be so alone.

He says, if there's no God, I'll be so alone. Because he's faking everything. He's a liar. But I just, yeah, I feel like there's so much of that in his performance, that, like, he's trying to convince himself that he's crazy so that he doesn't have to go into space, and then at the same time he's trying to convince, you know, that you're dealing with this whole culture that may or may not have created a god so that they don't have to deal with nothingness that is out there. It's a very similar plot line.

I'm just nodding, you know? All nodding. Cut showers, everybody, you know? Yeah. I think there's, yeah.

Someone seemingly steps in and saves him. Yeah. Or not. It's his theology. It's what he chooses to go with.

But then, you know, you've got the little glint of hope there at the end, which is highly selective. Oh, you get this. Yeah, nobody else gets it. You get proof. No one else.

But you get it. But he asked for it. Yeah. That's all. You just got to ask people.

Which is, you know. So, when you guys die... Come back and let all of us know. Everybody listening, that's my plan. I'm coming back to haunt all of you.

You need a specific task. It can't be that amorphous. It could just be a crazy dream. You need to assign a specific task for everybody to come back and do. I need a thing, a physical thing to show up and make a ding noise.

Like a gold. Tooth on a rack. I haven't had any of those. No specific tasks have occurred for me. I have lots of interesting dreams about Ed Mather, whose theology was so tied up with all of this.

He's constantly imploring me to tell his tale and not leave any of the ugly stuff out. And there's tremendously wonderful ugly stuff to be told. I get that a lot. But, yeah, it's an odd movie for me because it has been so completely tied up with personalities that I know and people and places that are gone that very few other films apply. So I've always been very forgiving of any of its excesses, and it has them.

But I really do love night configuration. It was a trip in the way back machine for me. Yeah, it's amazing that you suppressed it. That's just so odd, because I, no lie, probably 20 times on cable. Every time it came on, I just, I was transfixed.

As a lad. I'm trying to think of what was on cable for me that way. It wasn't nearly as cool as Ninth Configuration. It was probably Porky's. Well, that was.

Either Ninth Configuration or Breaking 2. So I had, you know. That's a tough call. I had to watch one or two. I chose that.

Yeah, definitely. For me, as always, my stepmother is an alien. I could not think of when I saw Under the Skin. I kept thinking about that movie. Prophetic.

Anything else on Ninth Configuration? I just, it's all performances. Like, it's one of those, I didn't. I just want a bunch of action figures. Well, why aren't there?

There's so many great characters. It's got, it's got. Like, G.I. Joe action figures. Guys in spacesuits.

I wonder if you could. Find a modeler who would be willing to. There you go. I wonder who you could find. To go out there and do nightclub.

To do a series. Where would you find a modeler at? Possibly at Wonderfest. Yeah. Wonderfest.com.

May 31st. No, it's so far out that I don't know how many people would even be interested. that well informed about it but yeah there's so many cool army guys yeah and that's a cool moment when when when the cops come yeah and the army guys just kind of push the front they're like no no i like that it's a nice machismo thing they're marines by the way oh you're. Right yeah well that was the thing yeah in the in the little breakdown in imdb that's why i was like it's kind of wrong because they specifically call out they're all marines not army so yeah way to go imdb but now like the whole scott wilson thing like i i had seen it a million years ago when it was on vhs obviously but like when he started getting big again like i didn't really even remember that was him because he's so much younger then and like i didn't realize how much like it's the scott wilson show like stacy keach is on the cover but like you watch that movie and like so much i mean he's got good performances too but yeah scott wilson steals that movie because he's just on you know every scene that he's in he's just firing out lines and he's really good and i just didn't yeah going back it's it's worth watching again just to acknowledge how much he delivers and, and, and was not, neither of them were actually meant to be.

They, he was talking about Stacey not being the lead. He wasn't either. The other guy like couldn't do it. And they shifted people. Scott Wilson was one of the other guys and he got moved.

That's how William Peter Blatty ended up as one of the guys. It, everybody shifted and went up one and then they were left with an empty spot. And he's like, well, I'll stand there and ad lib some stuff. And so like none of his stuff was scripted, but like, yeah, it's, It is interesting that he just was sort of thrust into that role, and then that's what. He does with it.

He's good. It's impressive. He had that nice kind of small role in Exorcist III as the doctor, which that character in the book has a hell of a lot more going on, and I kept expecting that to take off while watching Exorcist III because he develops a doppelganger problem where he keeps running into himself. There's a moment in Exorcist III where there's that big portrait of him on his wall, Because he's a very odd doctor, smoking and very paranoid. But you saw that big portrait, and I kept expecting that portrait to come to life.

I kept staring at it during the whole movie, and it never happened. But in the book, that becomes a major plot point, is the doctor is being worked on by something and starts to see himself and ends up being killed as well. Yeah, it is interesting that he comes back further down the line. In the William Peter Blatty world. Yeah.

And that's what I found with his whole career. Like, it's sad how, like, he just got smaller and smaller roles. And, like, for somebody that's as talented as he is and as huge titles as he's in in the early part of his career, like, it took him this long and he kind of comes back around now on TV. But, like, yeah, it's amazing how much he just got, you know, shifted down into the cast each time. Well, except for the longest time.

It's something people constantly point out is, TV, cable TV in particular, is the new motion picture industry when it comes to quality. It kind of is to some extent. Most theatrical stuff has gone into blockbusters. Folks who are under 30 and casting hardly anyone in any other kind of role. And so actors like that just go out with the tide.

And TV is bringing them back in. So I do give them credit with that. They've gone back and found some really good people. It's a balance, you know. It's tough because the.

The studios, they need to make those films. They really do. Especially now. Making those films enables them to put out something like 12 Years a Slave. Even still arguably a blockbuster because of the cast.

But they have to put out those big superhero movies to justify the expenditure on the other ones. So I don't begrudge them for doing it. And they're also able to launch some careers that way. I mean, look at Megan Fox. Well, not a good tie-in, though.

I mean, look at the career of Scarlett Johansson, which I've brought up a lot lately. She was able to choose and do this latest film. The only reason these last couple of years. I don't begrudge big movies. I enjoy them.

It's just that it becomes all that gets pushed hard. Right. Right. You know, and. Well, there's 6% of the movies that are made.

Yeah. The other 94% are non-studio. Or fighting to get seen. Better when they cease to be. The fun runs out.

I follow Paul Schrader on Facebook, and Paul mentioned, well, 105 movies coming out this summer. I'm just going to go lie down. What's the point? Well, but then you look at with the success of cable TV, some of the online providers are now, I mean, for Netflix to To throw out $ 100 million without ever seeing a pilot for House of Cards was amazing. And it was a gamble that paid off.

And it shows the power of the new medium now. Like how much they are bringing in viewers that not only are new viewers, but like a good portion of viewers, period. Like it's just, it's a whole new world that people couldn't have predicted. Why can't I get Undead Survival picked up? That's what I'm saying.

Why is that? Because people are dumb. Search Undead Survival on Vimeo. Feel free to donate and get that picked up. That's right.

Get some funding all your own. We have the pilot on the web. If you run your own company out there trying to rip off Netflix, hey. Those are coming around now. Those are coming around now.

So soon there will be competition. It will be network television. Only everybody will have their own, which it's kind of already getting to that point. And you'll be paying for it. You see Amazon Prime and you see, or no, the Hulu Plus and Amazon.

Everybody's getting this upgraded version and they're getting original programming. And soon you really will have like five different options. Crowdfunding. Yeah. Very, very big, big form.

It'll be interesting to see where it goes. I don't know if it'll be good, but it'll be interesting. Well, that's the thing. I mean, it's not just enough to make something. As Archie always says, not just enough to make something, it's got to make it good.

Because a lot of people can make things. The internet is full of them. It's like buying your furniture at Big Locks. It's shaped like furniture. Unless that is Big Locks would like to sponsor a movie meltdown.

That's different. I will run your ads all day long. Speaking of making things, can we have a side cast note? Which was the Jason Miller's Jason Patrick's father, which I never knew until right this very day. I don't think I did either.

It's a thing, according to IGP. I don't know if it's a true thing. I think I heard that. But yeah, in terms of our legacies, and apparently Jackie Gleason is Jason Patrick's maternal grandfather. I know, right?

Everybody's related in Hollywood. That's what I'm saying. Hollywood dynasties. A mission from our dynasty episode that I'm now amending. Don't get me started.

I'm going to go batshit crazy on dynasties. You're going to rant on that new little Coppola coming along. Like I said, just because my dad played ball doesn't mean I can play ball. We can have a Son of the Dynasty episode. Just start making a list of the ones you forgot and we'll come back around to it.

Like the TV show? Like Dallas? Yeah, that one. Joan Collins was hot. Anyway.

Anybody buy Drew Barrymore's Heart-Shaped Book yet? I've got a stack of them. I was going to give them to you guys for Christmas. That's cool. Joe Collins was good in Empire of the Ants, though.

Let's just keep all these random ideas. And Tales from the Crypt. Yeah. Michelle Phillips was in Falcon Crest, which I didn't realize until, like, one of the manliest guys I know. I was like, Michelle Phillips is coming.

He was like, from Falcon Crest? I was like, well, yes, among other things. Okay, whatever. All right, good to know. One of the manliest guys I know.

Does he hang out at that bar? There's a lot of manly men there. That's right, they were very manly. Some of them probably like Falcon Crest. I wonder how the folks in the Easter block felt about the construction of a biker bar.

I wonder if that's the part where they went to Austria. Is that the last... you know half a month was in austria so he's like all right they won't let us build this in hungary but austria doesn't seem to care what we do so now that. Was that was a weird weird moment if you if you remember toward the beginning of the film when you see the bikers the only answer. The only other time the other time. You see the bikers when they're tearing away on that on that flatbed truck and they have the guy in the sweater.

Vest i was gonna bring that up at some point chair And I forgot. And then in the bar, you actually see him sitting on a bar stool. It's obviously the same guy, but he's not attempting to get away. He's there. He's the bitch boy.

You want to join our gang? It's a conscious choice. So I wonder what the purpose was of having that guy. Again, it's all way too plotted out. Everything is planting the seed and coming back to.

I haven't been able to make that, you know, to find some deeper meaning there. It was just an odd placement. It would have been enough to see those guys tearing through the road and not interject this chained accountant. We're all God's bitch? Is that what we're supposed to take from this?

Well, you said it, not me. On that, we should probably wrap up. Okay, anything else to get out there this week? I think that is it. Oh, pleased to meet me on iTunes, $ 12.

99 plus tax. Order it today. All right, we'll leave it at that. Otherwise, that about does it. We will return next week.

Same geek time, same geek feed. Thanks for listening. I wonder if I should keep my St. Christopher medal You say it might go up. I wonder if I should keep my Saint Christopher medal They say it might go up in value years from now Maybe I could hawk it for a couple of tickets to some Broadway show Maybe he'll be reinstated, I just don't know.

I wonder if I should keep our St. Christopher medal. I wonder what's gonna protect me from now on. Oh, I read in my paper. That James Everett, he's not a saint anymore.

I wonder if I should. Keep my Saint Christopher medal. Oh. When I'm driving home When I'm all alone Who will be there for me. When I'm driving home.

I stop by the church and ask the priest about my Christopher Meadow. He told me they just decided he didn't belong. I wonder how the world. Will be when there's nothing left to pipe in. I know I'll always keep my same Christopher Meadow.

Who will be there for me when I'm driving home? When I'm on the road? Who will be there for me when I'm driving home? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You got 24 on your...

I know. I'm working here. Cool. Come here. You're so cool.

I will not ask you to pick me up. It's okay. It's alright. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown. Produced and edited by The Oddity Studios.

With opening music performed by The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard!