The Maze of Our Cinematic Minds

So, just a little message before we get started. So, on this episode, we discuss director Albert Pune. And we bring him up because his wife had been posting things about him online, and he'd been having health problems in recent years, and she knew things weren't looking good, and wanted his fans to send him some nice messages that she could read to him. Well, the sad news is that Albert passed away recently. But Sam and I actually recorded our discussion several weeks ago, so it was before he was gone.

So I just didn't want people to wonder why we didn't mention the fact that he was already gone. And truthfully, if we knew, we probably would have done more of a full-fledged tribute to him because we're both big fans of Albert. And well, we definitely would have said something a little more final at least. But maybe that just means we need to. Put together a special episode in the future.

But until then, I just wanted to let you know why we didn't mention his passing, and actually, if you're a fan, or even if you're just interested, Google Albert Pune and learn more about him. He had a fascinating life and career, and his wife has been posting some really nice and heartfelt things on Facebook, so if you're interested, go check it out. So anyway, just wanted to clarify things before we got rolling, and with that, let's get back into it. We will jump back into the conversation that we started last episode. Just a couple of geeks talking about movies.

Here you go. Hey, this is General Joe Shelby, better known as Martinez from Dawn of the Dead. And you're listening to the Diamite Channel on the Movie Meltdown. Stay tuned and stay tight. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America.

It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. It's showtime, folks. Enjoy the show. Our nuclear reactor, pumping out. One million kilowatts of power.

What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown, I am Brian and. Joining me once again is Sam and we're back. We've been going on and on about crazy things. So hopefully you've listened to last episode because we're going to be referencing things that we already talked about. So if you want to do this right, go back and listen to that last episode.

But now we're back to get into and continue our crazy journey. There we go. Excellent. Excellent. So thanks for having me back, Brian.

Definitely. This is what makes it all worth it. There we go. Crazy conversation. Speaking of time and place and capturing it and independent filmmaking and voices of a...

I got to see they... Who cares about the gimmick? In all the regal cinemas across the country, they re-released Dawn of the Dead 78. In 3D, okay? Dawn of the Dead in 3D!

In 3D! And. And um okay so i know like the last thing the internet needs is like two old guys talking about how awesome dawn of the dead is for the 50 billionth time you know hey. When have i ever talked about oh wait half of these episodes right. Right it's kind of like it's like i think pretty much uh the internet was invented for like the military and so people could talk about dawn of the dead for the rest of their lives that in star wars but uh.

Pretty much and then bicker and bicker more so with star wars i think we've all just come to terms with yes it's. Perfect it's a perfect it's a perfect movie and and uh seeing it and the good thing about movies being broken right now and everything sucking uh is that they're bringing back these movies you know and It being like the 40th anniversary of 1982 craziness that that is, you know, like they've re-released E.T., they've re-released this and that and blah, blah, blah. you know, for a week because there are no movies coming out. It's just like there's nothing out. I think we're. Finally catching up.

We're starting to get back into the old form a little bit, but it's still not the quantity that it was pre-pandemic. Yeah, we live in a world where a major theater chain released Dawn of the Dead uncut Uh, and, uh, and a 3d version that I think was made like basically a decade ago, like in 2013 was the copyright. So they, they, out of desperation, they dusted this thing off and, uh, put it up on in not the smallest theater at the back of the hall. It was when I went to go see it, it was in the biggest theater. And, um, I was like, cause you know, sometimes you go, Oh, I'll go see this little movie.

And they put it in the little theater. I go like, well, this is barely better than watching it. You know, I've gotten to that point too. Yeah. And I don't even have a huge TV compared to some people.

But yeah, I was like, it's not much different. It's not much different. It's not much different. So you get the sound mix, right. When you're, you're watching it in the theater, but yeah, no watching Dawn of the dead.

And you know, you forget the, the 3d thing. Once your eyes, stop uncrossing. You just forget that it's in. 3D. There is a lot of blood splats and glass flying at the camera.

That's true, yeah. It emphasizes. Just watching that on the big screen. I've seen Day of the Dead and Dawn of the Dead. I haven't seen Night yet in the big screen.

Day of the Dead was always my favorite. you know, interesting. That's usually the, and even with mine, I feel like there's, there's things I love about it, but overall it feels not quite up to par with the first two. It's hard for me to pick a favorite. Cause I think, yeah, I always get points the first one because it's the first one because it did. So many things that nobody had seen before and impacted cinema from that point on.

Where Dawn is just a great sequel. But I don't know. It's hard to go between those two. But Day, I don't know. Day just has a different trajectory than the other two.

Day is very divisive. And it's probably what killed the, you know, why he didn't make one again for 20 years, 30 years. You know. It kind of took the wind out of the sails on that franchise for a while there. Yeah, absolutely.

But it was always my favorite. But seeing Dawn of the Dead in theaters, I was going like, this is a much more well-rounded movie with the day's big problem being that people always talk about is there's no character you can relate to. The zombie. I mean, the zombie, but the coolest one of the bunch really. And everybody, that was my problem.

I think the military guys are so like annoying that like it takes away. From the movie. Whereas we don't. Really have anybody that bad in like the first two, like they're all pretty likable. Even if they're the evil characters, they're like still relatable as a human being where like the military is just goofy in that third.

Oh yeah. Looney Tunes, Looney Tunes and and and shooting for operatic overacting, you know, but, you know, when I was a kid and a teenager, you know, I used to really I responded to that kind of. Yeah, I mean, I can see that being the one that suckers you in if this is like you're you're. initial you know experience in the dead world and like especially if you're a kid that grew up on that kind of you know looney tunes world like of course you're gonna love that one. Yeah yeah absolutely you know um but yeah seeing uh dawn and just the achievement that it is and just such a uh if you're watching like people like you know it you know it's just like guy's in the mall off hours at two in the morning and they're racing motorcycles through the, uh, the mall is just so awesome.

And, um, it's just got such a, you know, the old JC Penney's went just catching something at the, in a time and a place, you know, the old JC Penney's logo. That last time I watched it, that's all I did was like Walden books. I just yelled out different stores that are like, ah, look at that. Like, yeah. Yeah.

Well, and the stuff that were in those stores, like there are no stores that are, I mean, I guess your Walmarts are like everything thrown in there, but looking at the pennies or wherever they were. And I'm like, they've got like a hardware department and they got these wear and then they've got like guns. That was the, at least there was a gun store. It made more sense, but there's just several things they're pulling out of that department store that I'm like, that's not the pennies that I shopped that, you know, later, like, right. So I don't know if it's movie version or just, it was the seventies and they were like, look, we got one store.

It's the mall. Shut up and come buy this stuff. That's right. That's right. Yeah.

This is what you got, you know? Um, yeah, no. So just like going back in time to those malls and, you know, you know, those circular, uh, You know, and the pennies are those, they probably still have them. I just don't go out. But, you know, the circle where they hang shirts and it's in a circle.

When you're a kid, you can hide. In the middle. Yeah, the round rack. Sure. Yeah, you hide in the middle of it.

Yeah, yeah. I've played this game. Absolutely. Right, right. And so, you know, it just brings you back to being drugged to pennies as a kid and, you know, just like how bored you were.

I think you can still do that now. I think you should head out the one now and just go sit in the middle of a round rack for a while and wait until some lady moves a shirt and is like, oh, God. Yeah, yeah. But what's amazing about the movie is like everybody talks about the social commentary and nobody should have told George Romero that his movies have social commentary because it kind of ruined his later movies. Yeah, that's all he began to focus on.

It was like, oh, that's what I'm known for. So that's what I'm going to really pile in. But, you know, when it was just innocent, Dawn of the Dead, You know, people talk about, you know, oh, the people who are shoppers are zombies. And I am not a smart person, but they, you know, watching this movie nowadays, what you get, it's a sign of a great movie is it just kind of grows with the society and you're watching it and you're going like, I mean, here we've got like this, you know, awesome, you know, kind of like society here. where you've got all your material needs possessions and, and they're building a wall around it to keep all the people, all the others from getting in, you know, and I'm going like, wow, this is like, this is like, this seems kind of timely, you know, and everything like, uh, what I, immigration and stuff.

I don't want to, that's what I'm saying. That's why I say I'm not a smart person. So I don't want anybody to say like, People in movie meltdown shouldn't talk about shit they don't know anything about, you know? I don't even get that deep into it. Like, I'm more real world.

Like, I think what's grown on me with that movie over the years is how much you can just exist in that world. Like, you just put so much time, especially once we get to the mall. And like, you just start to like, I think that's what led to so many other. zombie movies and post-apocalyptic movies, like getting into the mundane details of like, okay, now how do we. Exist at this point? Because we spend so much time with these characters and we're just like, okay, this is your little world and you do have the basics all covered.

So what do you do? And like, how do you go about it? And like, that is what it just, that's what sticks with me. Like when I think about that movie, that's what I think of is the weird little world that they create all by themselves in that mall and And you're like, what do you do when that's your entire world is right there? That's something that's stuck with me so much with that movie.

Yeah, that movie is like a perfect handbook of how to survive the apocalypse. Pretty much, yeah. Because it takes you through step by step what you need to do. And what's great, though, is... Yeah, I liked it.

Also, I mean, this is me. Again, I'm not a smart person. They are. they're like in this materialistic paradise and they're ignoring the fact that the rest of the world is going to hell. You know, and I was going like, I think that's kind of like how we are. I mean, that's that's also like your only option at that point is like, well, if we're trying to help other people, we also die.

Yeah. So we can just be selfish bastards and do our own thing and not worry about everyone else. And like that is how they work. Like so it's like there's no good balance there. There's no in between.

Yeah. Like you're either a horrible person or you try to help people and you get screwed over and die. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's crazy. It's great. I heard one person say once it was like, uh, it was during the whole Afghanistan thing. Again, I'm not a smart person, but they were saying like, there's a, like, uh, uh, they said like, America's not at work. The American military is at war, but America is at the mall.

And I was going like, it's like, it's like two totally. Yeah. And I was going like, Oh, the mall, that's like Dawn of the dead, you know? And, uh, and, uh, what's your call it? And just, you know, they even flat out say, you know, uh, the, the, I, I don't think it's like really a commentary against the zombies being shoppers.

I think it's like showing the survivors. They, they flat out say, uh, like oh what have we become you know you know we can't isolate ourselves from the problem you know and pretend everything's okay with like gadgets and stuff you know so that's what i got out that's probably what he was trying to say the whole time. I think it was that smart from the get-go like it really was and like we take all these other different things from it but at the same time right the core of the the smart genius commentary is right from the beginning, from the beginning. It just took me like 57 screenings to like see it in that way. You know, what's funny is I have watched it recently, but only because I just recently ran across again.

I'm always looking. Oh, I'm still buying DVDs. What do I, I lost in the olden days, but I ran across a, the Argento version of, That like I knew of it and I knew there were some changes, but I never got around to finding it and watching it. And yes, I was like, oh, OK, this is my excuse to, you know, it's it's weird how little it seems like. Again, I wasn't running them side by side, so I don't know for sure.

There's like one main scene that I'm like, OK, I don't remember this. I think this was added in. But other than that, like so much of it seems the same to me. Yeah. I think they just tightened that middle part.

Yeah. And there's music cues, but I was like, they make fun of, you know, his like silly antics with the pies and the ice skating at the end. But I'm like, that's still in zombie too. So I'm like, if they cut it out, they didn't cut much. So right.

And the music's different, but it's still kind of wacky at that point. So I'm like, he's not really changing it much. So I think. You're fine with either version. I don't think it has to be definitive one way or the other, but it's not really that different.

Was the interesting thing. Yeah, I think I think they cut like, I don't know, they just made it a little tighter, you know, I mean, Romero was the editor. So, you know, I probably was just going like, I am not cutting that shot. I mean, oh, and it was. Just so great because, you know.

It's so handmade. You know, it's like there's scenes that are just completely out of focus, you know, and and, you know, they just didn't have time to redo it, you know, so it's in the movie. And so that would never happen nowadays. So it's nice to see something that looks like a movie, you know, and not like a Timex commercial. Much like the John Waters stuff.

It was just shooting. It's just. Yeah. These are people I know I'm going to go, you know, he puts more planning and work into it at that point. But yeah, still, it was a lot of flying by the seat of your pants kind of thing.

Like, yeah, we got to make this work and we got to get out of here before the mall opens. So let's get this shot. We got to go, man. We got to go. You know, we're driving a car through the middle of this mall.

We got to get out of here soon. So let's go. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

I mean, everybody's, everybody in that movie is just so great. And, uh, you know, uh, uh, I don't know what can be said about Don of the dead. I mean, it's freaking great. And George Romero's 70 work is, you know, I, I just fall asleep thinking about it, you know, it's so, it's so wonderful. He's, he's pretty amazing.

He's, he's a great, I wish I could have met him before he, he passed on, you know, and. But very, very briefly long enough for him to go, what's your name? And he signed up, but he's super nice. Like again, he, he like, he's, that was so far back. It was like, we, we talked about it a few times on the show, but like he, that was when we went to wonder fest and like, he just kind of knew the guys that ran wonder fest and he's, his wife's family was from here and he just came up and did it.

Like he didn't charge anything for them to like, that would change. You would not see that 10 years later, but at the time he didn't charge him for that. When he got there, he didn't charge for autographs. He just showed up and like hung out with, fan and was like shocked by how many people lined up to see him like yeah couldn't believe it so I was like I think that's when that perspective changed for him towards the end when he was like oh I am a commodity like I can go somewhere and people will give me money to do this I think he it became a new career option for him towards the end that I don't think he realized he had when he came here but I was really the only time I saw him yeah. I think I think a lot of those directors those genre directors I mean like Toby Hooper I mean I think they just like I think they got shat on so much throughout.

I mean, Romero was in his forties when he made Dawn and he had basically gone bankrupt and was, you know, at, I probably talked about this at length of the last time we talked, but you know, he, so, you know, I mean, he, he was kind of a, he did not achieve his goals of Hollywood stardom or mainstream movie making. I mean, the thing. That he was most famous for, he got completely screwed out of all the royalties for it. So his other movies were considered not, not, not at the level of night or, you know, even with Martin got good critical stuff and kind of got him back on the map a little bit to get Don made. But really, it was like Dario Argento pulling him out of obscurity and taking him off the industrial film route and saying like, hey, look, you made 9-11 dead.

Here's some money, you know. So but I think these guys got crapped on so much by the establishment. And Romero had like so many failed development deals over the time, over his career, over his latter career. You know, he's going to make this. It falls apart.

He's going to make that. It falls apart. And then by the time they washed up on the circuit, on the con circuit in that maybe late 90s period, they had just been kicked and been told they were no good. And that's what it was. He was just like, it was down the hallway and around the building and waiting just to get him to sign something.

And I think he was in shock at that point because, yeah, that was before the rest of the convention world kicked in. And he just. Had no idea people cared that much. Yeah. Yeah.

When I met Carpenter, I mean, uh, I didn't have to pay anything for him to sign my three items or something like that. It was, it was like, and you know, and you know, he took time to like, you know, lookie in. The eye and. Respond to your question, possibly wink at you. Yeah.

We got you. Fist bump you. That was one of our tie-ins, but anyway, somebody still creeped out by there. Yeah. Right.

Right. Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, so, you know, it's, I, I don't know if there, I know Sam Ramey is going to be at like Texas fright mayor. weekend or something like that.

He's starting to do those. Yeah, I think there's another one next year I've heard he's coming to. So that's interesting that he's starting to head out into the world. Yeah. So I'm sure he's charging like, you know, $ 100 of whatever.

You know, that's fine. Sign my Spider-Man poster. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know, man, it's just like, you know, there was a time and place where you could meet your heroes and not have to have a piece of plexiglass in between you to spend $ 500 with a photo.

You know, I just said like, you know, Carpenter said, Hey, you want a photo? And he stood up and he leaned on me and I got the picture and it was just like, crazy you know it was just a different time different time different place you know. I mean i i get it like it it is especially as you get into these people who didn't make a ton of money in the industry and the only thing they have is like a cult following yeah like you have to go with it like i i. Can't blame them i sure as hell would be doing it oh oh. Yeah like that's the norm.

I do feel bad sometimes when I'm like, Oh, that's all it is anymore. But at the same time, I'm like, yeah, but that's what it needs to be for these guys. You know, I, as long as they're cool, like as long as they're still a good person, I don't mind if I make money off of it. You know, that's, that's, you go with you what you got, man. It's basically everybody's Tom Savini now.

You know, he still owes me $ 2. It's basically like, Hey, Tom Savini, are you going to buy something? Get out of here. Pretty much. Yeah.

He's as charming as his reputation would lead you to believe. Well, while we're on, you brought up one of your other heroes that I actually had a tie-in for. I've been meaning to watch it forever and couldn't. Again, I'm a dork, so I kept looking for it in a physical copy. Everywhere I'd go, I'd be like, nope, don't see it.

Oh, well, another time. Finally, this past weekend, I went, Yeah, it's probably streaming. I mean, I knew I could buy it and watch it, but sometimes that annoys me that I pay more for a streaming copy of something than a physical. So like a lot of times I'll put off that one, but I looked it up the other day and it was streaming for free. And I was like, damn it.

I guess I'm going to be watching invaders from Mars. Oh, that's cool, man. Uh, the, uh, the 86 Toby Hooper. Yeah. And I, I wanted to watch it anyway, but I thought, well, that will perfectly, you know, roll in.

Cause I know you're a big Toby fan anyway. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I finally got around. I, and again, I kind of remembered it being on cable, but it is one of those. I didn't count. Like I was just like, I know it. but I don't remember sitting down to watch it. Certainly not in the last 25 or 30 years.

So I feel like I really need to sit down and watch it. So yeah. Yeah. Well, and so you sat and you watched it and it's pretty amazing. Again, it's, it's like a couple of different things going on at once.

Yeah. Again, we're going back to visuals. Like it is so bright and so colorful and like, it's just playing with the visuals as much as it can and, but at the same time, what's funny is it's also like so earnest about the type of silly sci-fi it's trying to be. Yeah. Whereas it's remaking a movie that wasn't like all of those old fifties.

Speaking of commentary, like every one of them was about, you know, like, or, you know, xenophobia about something bigger, you know, the horrors of nuclear testing. Like that's the overwhelming theme. And then we made up this fake story just so we could tell this. Right. I don't get that at all in this Toby Hooper, but it's just like, yeah.

And some aliens and they come down and they're goofy aliens. And then they're trying to take us over. Like, it's just so, happy about being a silly sci-fi movie and does not seem to worry about telling a deeper darker story about humanity it's just a big fun sci-fi. Movie no no it it like uh it is uh it's it's i would say it's like for me it's like middle tier hooper yeah. But it's but it's doing anything amazing really right but it's so happily doing what he wanted to do Absolutely.

It's, it's this great moment of his three picture Canon deal where he had enough money to like go for it, you know, and then supposedly they, they would always take it from them and, you know, rechop it and, you know, piss them off. But, but the, the visuals in the movie are there. And I think the movie for me suffers from the lead kid performance is maybe a little, not, not great. I was going the other way. And this is the weird world that I've created for myself because I've said before, I don't think of it as any different, but there's so many times when I'm like, oh, hey, I know that guy.

Not really. I don't know them in the real world, but that was one of those. I sat with Hunter Carson in a room and talked about filmmaking. This was the one I asked a little bit about, I think, but again, I hadn't seen it in so long. He was talking about Paris, Texas.

He's phenomenal in Paris, Texas. So it's like watching him in this. I was like, he still kind of comes through is like pretty genuine as a kid. Like, I think he had that to him that like, yeah, he comes off. As a real kid.

Yeah. Maybe because this is a bigger scope, you know, Paris, Texas is so real world. Right. Whereas this is. A much more, again, sort of operatic version of a sci-fi story.

Yeah. Like maybe you need a different type of performance from him. But I don't know. I was OK with him. I thought some of the adults were a little sillier.

I felt like his mom in particular. Oh, yeah. Lorraine. Yeah. Well, no, his actual mom.

That's funny. Oh, yeah. I got into it knowing Karen Black was in there. I guess she plays his mom. No, she's the nurse at the school.

The really involved nurse, you know? Yeah. I was like, she has all, she spends the entire movie. I'm like, this is weird because yeah, it'd be different if it was like him and his mom taking on the aliens, but no, his mom gets taken over immediately. Like Lorraine Newman.

Who is also awesome. Awesome. And I do like that. She does her cone heads voice before things over with. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. Weird moment. Yeah, totally. But yeah, I was like, Karen Black is like dialed way up there in some of these scenes.

And she's like freaking out towards the end. I was like, man, she is swinging from the fences here. Hunter seems pretty reserved compared to me. The good thing about Tobey Hoover movies, nobody freaks out like they do in Tobey Hoover movies, man. I mean, it's just like, he just thinks he goes like more, more louder, crazier, you know?

And so when people, like the end of Poltergeist, where she's screaming, like, what's happening? It's just like, man, shoot for the stars, you know? But yeah, no, I think, now, I like Invaders from Mars quite a bit. there's like a lot of little threads here. You know, my, my favorite part is when the brain alien is looking down at the guy and he's going like, poor little guy, poor little fellow. I'm like, that's like such a weird moment.

I did not expect that. I was as much as I wasn't phased when the giant brain alien showed up. But then when we got to that, I was like, huh, did not see that coming. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's like such a, You know, it's like Stan Winston, the same year he did, you know, aliens, basically. And but this is like a totally different take on it. Just like kind of comic booky, wild, crazy designs. And I mean, those. other the big lumbering winds are such an awkward design like just like in a way that I guess is so alien I guess it would be alien but I'm just like who who drew this like why is it like that It's so weird.

It's so bizarre. It's so bizarre to see it like made in made. In practical form. Yeah, it's not a CG thing. It's somebody lumbering around in that costume trying to walk with legs, but then kind of use them as arms sometimes.

And that big giant mounted thing on their head when they need a laser. So inconvenient. Who put that on them? They don't have any thumbs. I guess they just bump into stuff.

How did they design this very intricate thing that goes in the back of your neck when they don't have it? functional hands really like is there another guy somewhere with like 30 thumbs that's like you know putting together all the tech. Stuff like yeah they just kind of never see him just don't see him these guys must be like the crab things from uh uh dark crystals so yeah you know but i do. I do think it was interesting the um because i'm watching that going. Man, did they rip off Kang? Oh, Krang.

Yeah, did Krang. Krang. Yeah, whatever. I was like, this guy just looks like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And then I went and looked, and.

It's the next year that he debuts. So technically, Ninja Turtles kind of ripped off Invaders from Mars. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Because I think he wasn't in the comics. He showed up in the TV show first, and then later they worked.

Him into the comics. But yeah, so Ninja Turtles. It's definitely, yeah. kind of lifting from invaders from Mars. Yeah. Yeah.

And so it's real interesting. A couple of things here. All right. So screenplay by Dan O'Bannon on the, that's amazing too. Right.

And Dan O'Bannon once said, getting your script directed by Toby Hooper is no different than getting your script directed by Bozo the clown. Well, there's a touching comment. Dan dan was known as being all heart you know yeah yeah so i think toby may have directed like three movies by o'bannon or at least two um but uh you know it's real interesting that connection because you got the guy from return of the living dead in invaders from mars uh the guy who plays the old sergeant he played the i can't remember the the character actor's name but you. Know james caron James Caron. Right.

So you interviewed him once, right? I remember passing by him, but I think he was we talked to the younger guy. But I think at that point, James was already gone. So I think he was I think he had passed on by the time we went and talked to the younger guy from Returning the Living Dead. Was that Tom Matthews?

Yes. Yes. I did. Yeah. I like Tom.

He was very nice, but, but yeah, I think at that point, James was already gone, but I know like in previous years, I think I'd seen him at conventions and just didn't ever, again, there's like only so much I can force myself to do. Right. Sometimes I make myself. Yes. Okay.

Go like set something up and try to talk to these people. And other times not so much. So yeah, not feeling times. I don't get around to it before they're gone. Yeah.

Yeah. So, James Cairns in, uh, invaders from Mars is because he like had a good relationship with Toby Hooper when Toby Hooper was going to direct return of the living dead, but then return of the living dead got put on hold. So Toby went off to make life force and then Dan got the job to direct return. So that's like a, that's like kind of a cool, Oh, and James Cairns in poltergeist too. That's probably why, why James Cairn was going to be in return.

Um, Anyway, the threads. I've got my yarn out. I'm making these little things on the cork board right now. It gets even more crazy if you start working back to our zombie version of how Return of. The Living Dead became Return of the Living Dead after Night of the Living Dead.

I've gone down that rabbit hole. That is crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so anytime you can rewrite John Russo and make it less like his script, it's. Probably a good thing.

Yeah, yeah. But, but yeah, so, but what's real interesting, I've got another version in my head of invaders from Mars directed by Toby Hooper that I wish that, that if you watch the original invaders from Mars from the fifties, you know, I, I, it was done by the, it was directed by a production designer and the production design and, and the original invaders from Mars was, Is incredible. And it also is got like this hyper real fake set look to it because, you know, spoiler, all is kind of happening in the kid's head in a dream. And in the original one, definitely. And so and so it's kind of got this dream look to it, you know.

So you got the original Invaders of Mars and then, you know, Toby Hooper directing a remake is like a dream made in heaven because if you watch like something like Eaten Alive, which has like this entire fake set dream hyper real view to it, I basically wish they could have made, basically I wish they would have like allowed toby hooper or if i was telling whispering into toby hooper it's like you should make it look like eaten alive because that is like the perfect blend of y'all's two styles you know you should. Make this look like a high school play yeah just cardboard sets and homemade costumes. Yeah. Weird gels and all the lights coming out. I'm going like, yeah, you're right.

I mean, Brian, that's why, you know, I'm not in charge. Cause, cause them making them making the movie that they did. I think it bombed, you know, and everything. And so I can't imagine had they done the, uh, high school, uh, musical version of it, you know, it would have been much better except for me. I would have been happy with it, but, uh, Yeah, no, it's a cool movie, man.

It just, you know, yeah, unapologetically what it is. And that's what you can sort of say for all Hooper's movies are they're unapologetically, you know, what they are, you know. Yeah, that's what was like stood out the most out of this is just how much it did not care about doing other stuff that some sci-fi films are way more concerned about doing. He's just like, this is what I want to do. I want this big monster and I want him. him running around in a hole in the ground and I want him like, this old woman eating a frog.

Like, this is the stuff I want from my movie. And is there anything better in that scene than when Bud Cort goes up to a friend of Big Potato Head alien? And he didn't bite his head off. I'm just waiting for him to just chomp on it. Instead, we get the weird laser.

What is that about? It blows him away with the laser, I think. It's great. That's always the best scene in those Like in War of the Worlds, the original, where the priest is coming up to the aliens. He wants to be friends.

Or whenever anybody tries to befriend the alien, it gets murdered. That's always the best scenes. The lesson we have to learn. Don't trust anyone. Even from space.

Maybe especially from space. Right, right. Especially when they look like that. Once again, back to nope. Don't trust them.

Nope. They don't look friendly. You got to love a no pal low rep though. The inside of the alien was where it looked like inflatable balloons that they're. Yeah.

I mean, in a way it was like, I like the, that we're kind of taking it there, but at the same time, it's so like weird and surreal and, but super simple. And yeah, like that's, that's kind of awesome. And the fact that, it is some weird process that happens because as it's flying around, you still hear people scream. And I'm like, that is disturbing. Like, yeah, that is cool.

So yeah. As they're being digested over a thousand years. Or whatever, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

That was fantastic. I don't know how much you want to talk about this, but you mentioned monkey pets and then you mentioned, then you mentioned Elvis and, And did you get a chance to see the spectacle Baz Luhrmann Elvis movie? I have not seen it. I did watch the this is what I think like is amazing is like when you're making a movie that's big enough that you get. an hour of network. Television to essentially promote your movie.

Wow. Before it came out, like one. Of the big three networks was like, here's an hour. Come in and talk about, you know, so like I watched that and learned like way more about the movie than watching the movie. Probably because we've got Baz there talking about what he wanted to do.

We've got the entire surviving Presley family was on board and is sitting there like talking like Lisa Marie and Priscilla are both there like. Endorsing this movie. I was like, that's kind of amazing because I don't think they've ever done that. There's been a lot of stories about Elvis over the years. And like, I don't think they've ever officially come on board with any of them.

And this is something from that angle, like this is an impressive film. I've actually heard really good things, but I have not sat down to watch it yet. All right. Well, I'm not going to destroy it for you. or anything like that. But because, you know, the history is, you know, of course, Baz Luhrmann, you take it or leave them, you know, take them or leave them.

Pretty much. I mean, there's not a lot of middle ground in the Baz Luhrmann world. And it's like, I've always like, you know, whatever you go like, oh yeah, boy, I really, Just wish he would calm down, you know, tell the story. He kind of does that sometimes. I think that's my favorite part about Romeo and Juliet because it's insanity for like the opening 15, 20 minutes.

And then it just sort of like eases its way in and kind of tells a normal Shakespeare story just with crazy visuals. But the tone slows way down after that. And doesn't ever get back to that. So like, that's the closest you get, I think is because right. Moulin Rouge never calms down.

Like it's back and forth all day long. I guess what I think it's like, that's the best and the worst aspects of Baz Luhrmann. It's like, it's like, it's so impressive, but it's almost just like, you know, probably like listening to it's just spaz Lerman, you know, he's just like throwing so much at you that. It's a kid in their garage with their band. Going, this is the greatest moment of my life.

And you're in the house going, Oh my God, if they don't shut up, I'm going to murder that child. So yeah, he's that kid. He's that excited to be a filmmaker and whether or not you click with his movies is. Up to you. This Elvis was the first one that I totally clicked with and, you know, and I was just going like, this has like all of his strengths, but it has this really, really strong story.

And, you know, I guess being raised by Elvis fans, I was predisposed to it since I know the music and I kind of know the history and, and my, my step grandmother who came from Germany, probably married my, step grandfather because he looked like Elvis. And she was just like crazy about Elvis. And my, my stepdad's crazy about Elvis and everybody's crazy about Elvis and on one side of the family. So I had all this stuff going on. They had like an Elvis, you know, a personalized license plate on their Cadillac, you know?

I mean, that was just like, it was just like Elvis fever in this one side of the family. And so, but the way that, Baz Luhrmann tells this story and just the technical craft that is on display and having seen like, you know, two years of like streaming television shows, which are kind of look like movies, but they, you know, they're always kind of, but this felt like. Sometimes they don't put the extra effort in. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the cameras are good and so everything looks good, but this felt like, going out to like a really expensive restaurant and really having somebody who knows how to cook and prepare and give you like a five course meal, you know, versus like shoving down a cheeseburger. And it felt so cinematic and so big and so broad and beautiful to behold that, you know, you're just like going like, man, this is like, I think this is his best movie, you. Know, five courses of Elvis. Five courses of Elvis.

Right. Right. And it just takes you through the whole thing. I mean, it's, it's like a biopic. So, you know, you kind of know the beats of how it's going to go, you know, but it was respectful.

It wasn't exploitative towards them or anything, you know? Uh, Which might have been fun, too. But especially when you have almost a villain built into the story. I mean, yeah, the colonel abused him. You know, yeah, yeah.

Was so isolated from the world by the time he got to be the old crazy man. And he didn't get to be that old. But like now. As the elder version of Elvis, like he was so disconnected from everybody. He was on so many drugs for different reasons.

And like the Colonel was just milking him for everything. Oh, everything. Like, yeah. I mean, it has like, you almost have to be like sympathetic towards this guy. It's like, even though he had everything in the world, he had his own pet monkey for God's sakes, but.

Like to bring it back around. But at the same time, like he, it's that perfect example of like, even if you have all the money in the world, it doesn't mean you're happy. it doesn't mean things are going your way. Like it means things have worked out financially for you and you've maybe been successful in a specific field, but it doesn't mean you're not miserable. Right. Right.

That's what it really kind of shows. It just sort of shows like this kid was like, you know, something special. And he just became such an industry that no, and I, I really, it just shows you like, you know, if you have, if you were surrounded by, that much love and adoration, how it, it, people aren't equipped to deal with that, you know, um, that, that, that much. Yeah. I have a tie in other movie that I've seen recently that, that pairs with that perfectly.

But before we leave, I, I assumed you'd be like, well, this isn't, this isn't Kurt Russell. I mean, the fact that you had Carpenter doing an Elvis movie, I figured this would have to pale in comparison. Well, you know, it's, it's Carpenter TV work. You know, he, he, he, he said, he's, he says himself, you know, it's TV. I don't care.

So, you know, it's, you know, for those masters of horror ones, he did, he was just like, it's TV. It's Toronto. What am I going to do? You know, but in listening to you discuss that and, and even the description I just gave, it totally reminded me. I have you watched blonde?

Blonde. The Marilyn Monroe. Movie that just came. Out a couple months ago. I like, Oh, on Netflix.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I love that actress, but that's, that's the takeaways. I mean, I've loved her and everything, but like, she is phenomenal. Like she, because she doesn't look anything like her and suddenly you throw her into this and like, yeah, I mean, she looks a little closer to the Norman Jean version, I guess. But then when you get her in the blonde hair and you give her like this chance to pull it off, like she nails it. Like she is amazing.

Yeah. But I, yeah, I want, yeah, go for it. Weird, weird. Yeah, dude, that's what I got out of it. I probably watched about 10 minutes of it.

All right. And it was like in the middle and I was going like, I was going like, wow, she's like naked a lot. And, uh, you know, I mean, on the one hand she's gorgeous, so I'm not complaining, but I'm also like, is this necessary all the time? Like, and that's bad. If I'm like, it's okay.

You don't have to be naked all the time. Like that's, It's weird, but sometimes it seems exploitative from that angle. Yeah, but it's so arty that it's not exploitive. I mean, it is arty in weird ways. If anybody hasn't seen it, to me, this was the description.

I was like, okay, I'm going to have to use this to put it in perspective for normal people out there. There's a lot more shots from inside maryland than. I was expecting in a. Movie yeah i think i remember seeing a the fetus and. Uh and not just that like there's a lot of that that goes on and i'm just like i don't know that i'm comfortable being inside this woman all this much this is a lot of time coming in and out of anyway yeah Yeah.

So yeah, that's the part I was like, they're going for something really already here. And I'm not saying they're not hitting it, but I think my takeaway, and this was what made me think of it with the Elvis stuff is like, she had all of the success. I mean, you can't be a bigger pop icon than Elvis. And Marilyn, but watching that movie, if you're believing the perspective of this movie, there was not a moment of her life that she wasn't miserable. Right.

Right. I mean, she deals with so much in the beginning that, that is, you know, based in reality. Like most of her upbringing was probably pretty sad. And then she achieves these great heights. But according to this movie, like it does not matter because she never escapes these horrible, you know, issues that plague her since childhood and, And everybody was basically just using her along the way.

And like, she can never even, you know, people she's in love with people she's married to, like. Just kind of screw her over and abuse her. And like, there's just no upside to it. And I'm like, as someone who likes Marilyn in, in her movies, the real version, I'm like, this isn't fun. Like, I understand you're trying to tell the darker side, but I'm like, after a while, it's, it's not something you want to, undertake anymore like it's just again it's just a shame because the performance is so good but yeah yeah by the end I'm just like this is miserable like I just yeah I feel bad for her as a person as a character whoever like I know a lot of it is not based in fact again they were going more art house and trying to tell the overall story not so much the details of the story because there's like one of the people that like she's involved with quite a bit in some portions of this movie like they show him after she dies or no there's a point in the there's a point in the movie where he dies and like it's brought to her attention so i looked it up and he lived longer than she did like they're putting they're killing a character off that didn't really happen in the real world so it's like that kind of stuff of like they're not worried about details in this movie they're they're way more leaning into the crazy overall like mental state that she was in which by the way was not good.

Right fyi spoiler not good and and it's damn near three hours long so it is an undertaking on so many levels so. Well you know that was probably uh you know hit one was, you know, just, Oh yeah. The new Maryland movie I've been hearing about. Oh, three hours. Okay.

That's an investment. I got to like clear the afternoon. Yeah. And then, uh, my wife started watching it. And so I just kind of like walked in on it and it was, it was just so depressing, you know, that I was.

Just like, the more you watch it, I'll tell you. Yeah. Yeah. I was going like, Oh, that's sad that she had to get an abortion as weird that she was in a throuple. And, uh, but it was also just so sad.

It's so sad. I don't think I want to watch it. You know what I mean? All of these things. And it's all like perspective.

Cause it's like these things that have happened to her along the way, like could just be normal, but like somehow, uh, there's so much more like tragic and horrible in this version that we're watching that I'm just like, cause I mean, people, you know, survive stuff and get over things and like, but somehow in this, like there's just never an up day. Like every day is just terrible and new, terrible things waiting to happen tomorrow. And it's like, geez, it's just grueling. bleak viewpoint you know and everything and I'm sure it was no bed of roses to be uh Marilyn Monroe but you know there must have been like uh you know uh breakfast on a seaside villa in Tuscany at some point in there where she was going like this is great French toast have a few minutes of peace but no not on that movie yeah which makes it just kind of make you so is it you would think like what if like John Waters had directed it and just really leaned in on the, you know, the, the terrible people treating her terribly, you know, it.

Kind of feels like that. It's a different direction of Artie than John Waters, but right. And of course the vine would have been Maryland. Oh yeah. Can you imagine how great that movie would have been?

I mean, we kind of get a version of that a few times in divine's life. Right. Right. I would, yeah, I would definitely watch that now. I guess if they're going to like, CG motion capture a new version of divine and put him in the Maryland store.

Yeah. Yeah. We're not far from that. So that could be happening soon. Maybe that will bring John out of retirement.

Yeah. Well, the rumor is, you know, he's going to make another one, but you know, who knows, you know, what's going on. So, but we'll, we'll see, you know, he doesn't have to, he's got his legacy. So if he does it, you know, hopefully it will be, you know, cause something he really wants to do, but you know, but looping back to something, we're talking about Tom Matthews earlier. Yeah.

So in closing on the Maryland movie, probably not going to watch it until I've like had my Prozac and you know. Don't, don't expect to be happy after you sit down for a viewing. Cause it takes its toll. Yeah. Yeah.

So Tom Matthews is in one of my favorite early 90s cyberpunk movies called Nemesis. And Nemesis was directed by your good friend Albert Poon. And so he's been all in the news. So I don't know if he's... I don't think he's dead yet, but I mean, that's not a fun way to phrase it.

I know. I know. He's not doing well. So yeah. Yeah.

So it's, it's, it's interesting though, seeing the outpour of love for Alvin, who you would, you know, another guy who probably, you know, doesn't, didn't realize how much people like his movies from that time period, you know, and, uh, this says, you know, I mean. Yeah, you sent me that link. And then I was like, his wife was basically like, Hey, if you have nice things to say to him, like he's, he's not doing well. So now's the time to, you know, I'll make sure he sees all this. So I did put it on there because I had that crossover with him and like it, it was like amazing because he was as much as you've heard about him too, like, because he's not only a man who's made a ton of movies and made a bunch of movies that, you know, were super low budget and probably had some sort of crazy scenarios, but also has been asked to leave a lot of movies.

Yeah. Yeah. As you get into a story, there are several in the run that they're like, okay, we're done with you now. Bring in another director. Oh, wow.

Is he just eccentric or is he? I was expecting it to be like, you know, he would be kind of a curmudgeon or like kind of like difficult to even talk to. He was so nice and so laid back. And so I had the most fascinating story of like, here's this, here's this guy who's like, growing up away from Hollywood, as far as you can get like so much. So I remember him talking about like wanting to make film, but they didn't have a place living on an Island.

He's essentially in Hawaii, I believe. And like, yeah, they didn't have a place to develop film there. So like if you shot a film, you had to ship it off to the mainland to have someone develop your film and then wait for it to come back. And I'm like, this is amazing that this guy in this scenario grows up, you know, put together all these movies. I'm like, you're already dealing with this crazy, like super removed from Hollywood kind of a story.

And then like you get into like, okay, he's made all these like silly straight to video kind of movies you know yeah like the man who directed cyborg you know oh yeah so like that guy what you know what's the what's the movie that brought him in what's the movie you know what kind of schlocky nonsense did he get into as a kid yeah 2001 was his like defining moment when he was yeah this is it this is so like that is amazing like that's what i was like I want to hear more about this. Like, I wish I could have talked to him even longer. Like he was in the middle of doing a bunch of stuff. So it got kind of cut a little shorter than I would have liked. Cause I wanted to hear him go on more about 2001.

Like, but that's, that's the kind of stuff that I'm just like you, you number one, I'm just, when I meet people that are awesome, it makes it even better because I've run. Into some that haven't been as great. And so it's like, when I see somebody that's super nice and very down to earth, That's amazing. Especially then I'm like, well, what was going on on these shoots that like you, who seems to be the nicest person and like super easy to get along with here is getting kicked off of a project. So I don't know if he just switches into a totally different mode when he's on set or what, but yeah, my run in was really great.

He was a very nice man. Well, you know, that happened a lot to Toby Hooper too. He got fired off as many projects as he directed. You know, and, you know, he's he I think there is just a certain expectation for a way a director is supposed to be. And I think some of these people came out of, you know, homegrown, homemade filmmaking like Hooper.

And I think like maybe not. punes kind of thing but i mean i'm sure one of those low budget ones probably had our hard scrabble kind of thing and they learn a certain way of doing things that isn't always conductive to the way hollywood does things and and so they're either they adapt or they don't you know again. Back to the john waters thing like he did. Everything in the beginning by his own rules because there weren't any sometimes and like he pieced it together after the fact and made what he wanted to make And then when you get to the structure of, okay, now you're going to go shoot hairspray, you know, it's like the more and more he did, the bigger the production and the more and more studio involvement he got to the point.

He's like, I don't even want to do this anymore. So same thing, like the more backing you get, the more it might seem like you're getting successful. The less of you is going into the project and you probably don't want to do this. If you're a real artistic kind of a person. Yeah.

That's right. That's right. If you're used to making movies with your buddies in Pittsburgh and now you're, you know, basically reduced to a, you know, director for hire and every cool idea you have, or that, that the crew has, you have to pass it through a studio before you can do it. It was probably takes the wind out of yourselves a bit, you know? Yeah.

And I probably probably had, you know, some of those movies that he was on were probably like solo budget movies. that, you know, they probably gave him like five days to shoot, you know, shoot it, you know, and if he falls behind because there's like some ridiculous special effect in it that he has to pull off, you know, they, they have to like, you know, fire him and get somebody who doesn't care as much. So, I mean, a lot of those early ones are like, yeah, really? That was like, sometimes I, he, again, he did so many, I didn't even realize it. Like one of the ones I'm just running across buying things in the real world still. I ran across a super deluxe version of alien from LA.

Oh, right. Right. Yeah. I've not seen that. One of his like, and then watch it.

I'm like, it's super ambitious. Yeah. We're also having, I'm assuming very little money. So like, he's trying to create this entire other universe almost on, you know, super minimal indie film budget of just like, again, it's got to give points for just the audacity of being able to do that kind of stuff or even undertaking something like that. That's right.

That's right. Yeah. I watched one the other day called a radioactive dreams that he did. I remember even just watching like the trailer, it's kind of that same thing of like, let's create an entirely different universe in a whole nother world. And yeah.

Yeah. And, and so, yeah, it's super ambitious, but you know, after they built the sets and they built, you know, put the established the, the costumes and everything, they just didn't have any money to do anything. You know, it's just like, it's all set up and it's like, okay, well, we barely got enough money left over for film for the camera. So, you know, it's like, I mean, I can see that. Yeah.

Watching it from LA. There's, there's a lot of, creating this universe and then once you get there it's like she just kind of walks around in it a lot and like he's sort of looking for somebody and yeah it's so surprising that yeah we can't really have i think tom matthews shows up in there too yeah i think oh yeah i remember asking him like i was like you turn up in a lot of these movies i think he just again like somebody who got along with him really well so it's like i don't understand how one thing is true as is the other, like he's so difficult to work with. He gets kicked off all these movies, but yet you've got these people that adore him and want to keep working with him. So, yeah. Well, you put them, you put a guy, you put a guy, you put a nice guy and you push him too far.

He's going to bite you. You know what I mean? You put them, you back them into the corner, you know, he's, you come out swinging and you just, you can't, you know, that's just not what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to, the friends I know that, you know, uh, work for the industry is basically, you know, you just got to learn how to take it. You got to take the abuse.

Do what they tell you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but, uh, yeah, so it's, it's sad.

It's sad about Kuhn, but man, he made like, you know, uh, 520 movies, you know, and, you know, 10 of them are really great, you know? So, you know, it's like, you gotta keep at it. You gotta keep at it, you know? And, uh, you know, but his, uh, I mean, you know, uh, for me, you know, cyborg is just a great movie and, you know, there's people who probably will argue that, but I mean, it's just got such that great, you know, late eighties, early nineties, kind of like post-apocalyptic, you know, uh, flaming trash barrels and, and, uh, and, uh, chicken wire on everything kind of look to it. That's my world.

I'm usually looking for that in any movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's just, it's so great.

And just the, uh, you know, it's just like so rough and tumble, uh, filmmaking that, that I really enjoy that one. And, and nemesis is just like, so, uh, so pre matrix, but you know, we've got long trench coats and, uh, you know, I guess it's John Woo inspired at that point, you know, and, uh, and Terminator, you know, inspired and it's got the great Tim Thomerson, uh, Byron James, uh, duo in it. So, you know, enjoy some Tim Thomerson. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So, Yeah. Yeah. He's great. He's great. But yeah, anyway.

Yeah. So what, what, what else have you seen lately? Oh my gosh. Well, then there was again, I think it's interesting. The ones that do come up along the way, because I just happened to have just watched this and you mentioned him earlier.

So this is another one of those I've known about the movie since the mid eighties. And yeah, I wanted to see it, never got around to it and was only prompted to, because I ran across a copy of it. It was like, here it is for cheap on DVD. And I'm like, Oh, this is a good, that's why I like it. Like there's tons of stuff streaming, but I'll just never get around to it because everything's available.

But somehow like finding a copy of it, I'm like, Oh, this is the reason for me to watch this. So I picked up a copy of, I want to hold your hand, which is the first feature. Film of Robert Zemeckis. What so what i knew of this i'd heard about it forever and being like again now it's like when you reference him you're usually doing it for backhanded purposes yes the thing that he is now is a very different director but that early to early 80s through the like early 90s like he was like this amazing filmmaker that was taking on these different types of projects and also like setting the bar and like one of the first people to ever shoot movies back to back. And like, just like doing these crazy things that like, until he hit his weird, like CG virtual world.

And then we lost him to that for a decade or so. Oh my God. But before that, like he was just putting together these amazing movies. Now, granted, he was one of those that found a way to work within the system. And like, as you said, you know, before, what are you talking about?

Like he went, to school he followed in the footsteps of spielberg and like he just modeled things to the how do i get to be able to make these movies i want to make in the biggest you know studios into the biggest audience and like he found a way to do it yeah but before that like this is the very first step on that path this is 1978 1978 And it is, which is also weird to me because I thought it is more of like an eighties thing looking back on the sixties, but 78, like, it's funny that like, it's. It's about the Beatles. So it's not that long before when all of this was actually happening. Yeah. Because the bulk of the movie is like them showing up in America to play Ed Sullivan.

Like that is the entire thing that is built around. And these goofy kids from like New Jersey are, that drive into the theater and want to like be there to see them. And it's, it's an interesting like movie anyway. It's a very like of its time, kind of like kids getting into wacky adventures kind of story. Yeah.

But also like the cast is interesting specifically if you know Zemeckis, I mean the main person, our biggest star to come out of it is Nancy Allen. There's a 1978 Nancy Allen in there. So she's one of our main girls. But the other one that's like super crazy Beatles fan is Wendy Jo Sperber, who I feel is a national treasure and like was just never fully appreciated in her life. All right, well, here's your chance to talk about Wendy Jo Sperber because I don't know who that is.

Well, here's the thing. And if you're a Zemeckis fan, she is known because she is Linda McFly. She is Marty's sister. In what little screen. Time she has, Yeah.

She's the, she's the one sitting at the table at the beginning. Like, right. So that's the sister. If you watch her, she is so much fun. And like, she.

Wasn't just in this. If you go back and look at her on DB, she's in a ton of stuff. Like she is a staple of eighties comedies. Like she is in a ton of stuff. And then like continued working through the nineties and into the early 2000s.

She's still consistently working. And then dies of cancer. And like, so like just never, like, I feel like at some point there would have been like a resurgence and people would have really like, you know, appreciated her and she would have, you know, I don't know. It just seems like it's sad that like everything she's known of is like 1985. Yeah.

And then, and now she's gone. Like it's sad. Yeah. Cause she worked, she worked so much. So Linda from back to the future is in, or the sister is in, I want to hold your hand.

She's Rosie and I want to hold your hand. And she is like the super over the top, crazy Beatles fan. Like she is the one that like wants to marry Paul. Like she's one of those insane girls that you'll see screaming in every video. Well, this is like, let's spend, you know, like a whole day before this happens and, you know, find out who these girls are.

And like some of them, like at one point, the Nancy Allen characters doesn't seem like she's all that in tune. She's just like, oh, I've got to get my life together and I'm going to get married and I'm going to be, you know, But then like once she gets into the situation, she's like insanely into. The Beatles all of a sudden. It's very weird. And then there's another friend that like doesn't like the Beatles and is trying to protest them because she likes like, you know, hippie folk music.

So like the Beatles running them. So it's interesting. The other tie in that I think is funny, the other guy, there's like also guys, there's like the guy that drives in there that is the one that has a car basically. So they sucker him into going. But he is Larry, who is played by Mark McClure, who you would also know as Dave McFly.

So Marty's brother, who was also Jimmy Olsen in the Superman movies, is the other guy that drives them to New York. So yeah, it's like this tie-in of all the Zemeckis regulars that are there in that first movie, and then you continue to see them pop up in his stuff in the future. But yeah, so he's in there as like the the guy in the car. And like he also is like into one of these other girls, but doesn't know how to tell her. And like, so it's it's kind of like romance stuff, but, you know, still kind of laid for laughs.

But I mean, is this like I'm getting like from your description, is it is it like kind of like like American graffiti genre or. Like it is just goofy kids getting into adventures and like they're all trying to the one girl like is basically the she doesn't even seem like she's that into the Beatles but it's interesting that there's a girl at this era that's like super obsessed with her career because she's a photographer And like she wants like this is going to break it. If I can get a shot of the Beatles, like I'll be on Life magazine. So it's interesting that like that's her whole push is like just for like professional reasons almost. yeah but um she she concocts this plan to get them into the hotel where they're staying so they drive all the way up to new york just to make this plan happen and then they all get like separated and get into separate crazy adventures and there's this one trying to do that and this one's trying to get over here and they're all still trying to make it to the the ed sullivan show for the big performance so Yeah.

It's a crazy adventure for, for again, like sort of low stakes and yet somehow they turn it into this huge epic adventure, but yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun. It's, it's, it's kind of what I expected, but still it's, it's pretty polished for being a, you know, the earliest movie for, for an up and coming filmmaker. Like, it's still pretty well put together as as a you know again he he got to where he was like almost clockwork of being able to put together he's great i mean you fast forward like as much as everybody goes on and on about back to the future the thing that i think is amazing is like that screenplay and that's what's interesting about this it's also it's directed by zemeckis it's written by robert zemeckis and bob gale okay so that gave us back to the future so like it is that same dynamic, but you see, by the time you get to back to the future, like that screenplay is so perfectly set up.

Like everything in it comes back into play. Every, there is not a wasted moment in that screenplay. Everything is so meticulously put together. Yeah. Then I'm like, it's, it's to me, it's amazing.

Like as much as I still love the movie, I know lots of people now it's become cool to kind of bash on it, but I'm like, you can think whatever you want of it, but you have to give credit to like that. perfectly put together screenplay and so again it's interesting to see these two guys that work together for so much of their careers like this is that early incarnation of them and it's still kind of that same dynamic it's still sort of got that that sort of fun but kind of crazy adventure aspect even in this which again is very grounded compared to time travel but it's still that same sort of dynamic of setting up these crazy situations that they get in and how do we get them out of it or take it to the next level sometimes.

But that also shows you what clout he had like coming out of the film school, you know, is just like he was able to work with these actors and, you know, make a period piece for a studio. Yeah. You know, based on and, you know, that they greenlit. It's I just from your description, I'm going like American graffiti made a lot of money. So I think there must have been like a nostalgic comedy genre based on music. you know, just from your description and everything.

So I'm going like that, you know, there, but the fact that he got his, his, his first up at bat for doing something like that, which sounds like a lot of plot threads going on, you know, it just shows the trust they had in him. I don't think he made any money until used cars came around, you know, but yeah. Cause that's the thing that run after that. Like I love used cars as a kid, which. Says a lot about me.

But even like something like romancing the stone, like it's taken up to such a big scope to this again, crazy adventure story and fish on the water kind of thing, but just taking it to a huge canvas, basically that, yeah, again, that run of his movies and like, roger rabbit like it's just like so many impressive things in that era that i'm like i i will go back to him as like a go-to filmmaker for that era now you move forward he's a different guy but. Yeah yeah yeah it's uh yeah no back to the future you know what can be said i mean it if i can show one of my you know zoomer kids you know a movie from you know 40 years ago and they respond to it i mean that that means something you know because I showed one of my teenagers Back to the Future.

And it was probably five, six years ago. They were probably 11 or 12. And they ate it up. And that same thing happened recently with Jaws. And they sat and watched the whole thing and loved it.

So, I mean, there's just a certain level of filmmaking going on there. And storytelling that they've got to. There's a hook. You know, and they get hooked in it. And and and, you know, it's, you know, Zemeckis during that time period, you know, just from a technical point of view.

I mean, he just was like, you know, unparalleled, you know. And again, showing how much they like, I guess. gave you the basics in film school. Cause like right out of the gate, this is pretty solid. But again, like compared to looking back at the other people we've referenced, like look at the early movies of John Waters. It's not polished.

I think even he'll tell you it wasn't polished. Right. Right. They didn't have all the, the kinks worked out of it yet. Not at all.

You know, this is like a really interesting thing to see, you know, Bob Gale and he working together and like putting together this this project like that early on in that scene where it would lead down the line. It's pretty amazing. Right. Also, the clout of they got actual songs like, oh, like. There's like 11 or 12 of them in the soundtrack.

Like that's the investment right there. Like regardless of how much it costs to make this movie, they got legit Beatles songs. And put them in this movie. Like that's the most amazing thing. Yeah, sure.

So huge, you know, they threw a lot of money at those guys first movie, you know, it may not have been special effects spectacular, but I mean, you know, it's not, it's not easy to replace all those cars and costumes and, you know, and then to get the rights to the music. I mean, that's, yeah, that's pretty crazy. Yeah. Um, yeah. Zemeckis, uh, uh, you know, just, uh, you know, his, I would say, you know, there are parts of, uh, Roger Rabbit and death becomes her that I just think are just, I mean, I think that's maybe for me, Bruce Willis's best moments.

He has such amazing potential anyway, which we see later in totally dramatic roles, but there's also something to be able to play that type of comedy. And like, he had that too, like from the beginning, like in his TV days, you see his comedic timing is amazing, but like, Yeah. So yeah, to put him in that makeup and then. Like have him go through this crazy story and have him be the one that you come back to. Cause like the other two are all over the place, but like, he's sort of holding down the fort as the comedy goes.

Like he's, he is amazing in that. He's great. Yeah. Just having him play like a total loser, you know, it's just such a great, I mean, something they just, he just couldn't do later in life, you know, later in his career or his career now where he's, you know, just, you know, I guess making, um, you know, paying the bills, you know? So, uh, that was a weird thing as we all uncovered it, but it finally made sense.

Cause I've spent 10 years going, what is he doing? Like watching these movies because they had his name on it. And he's like half in it sometimes. And even when he is there, it seems like he's phoning it in and, Now I realize, Oh no, he really did not know what was going on some of the time. Like sometimes they're feeding him dialogue in an earpiece because he can't even remember.

Like it really is sad. Like the more you learn about that. And I mean, so yeah. Yeah. Just don't, Yeah.

No need. Now we understand. So, you know, no need to kick as well as anymore. It at least gets rid of the mystery. So like, I don't have to go back and watch those other ones.

That's right. Cause I kept waiting for him to turn in another like amazing performance that he hadn't done in like 10 years. I'm like, what's up with that? Like, why do we just turn this corner and everything now? Like he just doesn't care anymore.

I'm like, well, cause he couldn't care anymore. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's just interesting, you know, but, But Zemeckis, yeah, I totally agree.

I mean, he made Flight, which was fine because it was at least real people walking around. He's come back around to at least making real-world movies. Like, when we lost him to CG, like, those are just in their own world. Like, I don't know if I've sat down and watched any of those in their entirety. Like, they're just. no, they're just too much.

Like, it's just, I don't know. He was just so fascinated with that. Can I thing that like, it didn't matter if the movie was good by the end. He's just like, can I make this work technically? Can I put all these pieces together and come out with a movie?

And yeah. Does anybody really want to return to him now? Probably not. But I, I think that. I think some of these directors, you know, these control directors, you know, they're, it kind of derailed George Miller for a while with those Happy Feet movies.

But I think George Miller took those lessons. He said what he learned from those Happy Feet movies was there is, when I can put the camera anywhere, I found out that there is like the best place to put the camera because i've tried it from all the angles. I feel like that's overwhelming like yeah i feel like it's way more grounding to be able to be like okay i've got these five places i can put it which is gonna look best here all right i'm going with this versus i can put it anywhere right huh where. Do i where do i go i feel like that would just kill your Your momentum of getting anything done because you just sit around thinking about everything you can do. Versus, again, real world.

I got to fix this. I got to be out of this mall by six o'clock. Exactly. I got to finish this. Movie.

I mean, yeah. Go listen to the last episode. Part one. Part one. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think that allure of total control, you know, just kind of like ruins some directors. Yeah. I mean, I can see it being a cool selling point in the early days. And you see him start toying with it along the way.

Like he. You do. That's the other thing I'll give him credit for is like, he is one of the main reasons we got tales from the crypts, which at the time, I think that first couple. Of seasons is like solid as like, you. Know, fun over the top schlocky kind of horror stuff goes.

Like I love those early seasons and like, he directed several so like one of those is like you see him playing with that like creating a fake person before they can CG do that but like it's that early one of him with Bogart and like it's trying to it's done like POV style so it's one of those first times you see him going okay can I make this happen and And it's pretty minimal compared to what he would end up doing later. But like you see him like dipping his toe in, in TV format. And then he's like, all right, let's throw a whole budget towards Beowulf. Let's just immerse ourselves in this crazy process. And like, can you do it?

Yes. Do you need to keep doing it? No. And even he decided that because now he's making human movies again. So yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, He actually, I found out he was the director of the new Pinocchio remake. Yeah, I've heard that. I have not ventured that way yet. No, no, no.

Just Disney. Just this misguided remakes of their old cartoons is just like. And that one didn't even get a theatrical run. Oh, so bad. So sad.

So sad. And I'm like, why would you remake... I mean, I hear Del Toro's coming out with a Pinocchio. I'll watch that one. That will at least.

Be interesting because he will put a very different spin on it, I'm sure. Right, right. And I love Tom Hanks, and Tom Hanks' Geppetto may be good, but why did they make the CG Pinocchio look just like the cartoon Pinocchio from 40 years? I just don't understand what's going on. I don't know where their brains are.

Do you think Tom Hanks would slip in and out and sometimes he'd be Colonel Parker? Exactly. Sometimes he's the colonel sometimes it's. Just me an old man being an older. Man with crazy makeup yeah so after a while you'd get lost right.

I mean totally totally um yeah zemeckis what up with that guy. I i wonder quite often but yeah he's he's in his day a master you know like he really put together some great things and then, you know, you see, so it's interesting to see him at the beginning and then definitely where he goes later. Is very different as a director. So yeah, this was. Just an interesting revisiting the early.

Days, but yeah. Well, I mean, we can start, uh, start looking to wrap up in this extended, long, uh, ongoing conversation here, but is there anything else you've, uh, seen that you want to address? Anything else you want to talk about? Oh my gosh. Um, Let's see here.

We got anything else here. I don't, I guess I should probably give a recommendation and a warning about these Terrifier movies. Have you seen those advertised on the internet? I've seen a lot about them. I officially did. actually we just on one of the horror club episodes, like before we got rolling, like, like somebody wanted us to watch this.

I mean, they're not. They're not committed enough to actually like join the club and put it on the list. So I'm like, well, we don't really care about your movie there. Yeah. Mostly.

I just don't officially don't care about clowns. Yeah. That's mostly my reason. I don't care. Like, I just don't care.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, here's, here's, here's, what you're going to get out of these Terrifier movies because I watched both of them. It took me probably about 20 isolated viewings to get through them both. I had to watch them as a little web series because on the pro side, the guy playing Mr.

Creepy Clown, Scary Man, he's really good. He's got a lot of he's basically a mime. So he doesn't talk or anything. So it's all body mime work, you know? So, yeah.

All right. So, yeah. So, right. Okay. I know you're going like sold, right?

Right. You haven't bumped it over the top by saying mime. Right. Okay. All I got, I got one word for you, Brian mime.

All right. Um, not sold, not sold, not sold. Okay. All right. So let's try this.

Okay. Um, The color correction on these movies is actually really good. Wow. I don't think I've ever seen that written on a poster before. Awesome.

If there was a video box, that would be right across the bottom of it. The color grading is really nice. Really nice. So, so if that, if mine and really nice color correction hasn't sold it, I could say that these movies, the guy directing them is also doing the special makeup effects. And so I would say, okay, the special makeup effects are really, really good and really good old school and very state of the art, uh, torturing a puppet on screen, you know, just him.

Doing fancy white clown makeup. This is also like prosthetics and like latex and very things. Of that nature. Very, very much. So very super mid eighties, Tom Savini type.

Oh, But taken to like, you know, using all the latest materials and the blood looks really good and the puppets look great. And super, super, super gory movies. All right. And so if you like special makeup effects, it's they're good for watching for that reason. The problem with these movies for me personally is that they are very. very, they're, they're very mean spirited movies.

All right. Again, after a while that takes its toll. I might as well just watch blonde. Yeah. Right.

Right. So they're not for me, for me, they're not fun to watch. They're kind of like, that's why it took me like 20 times to get through two movies because they, they sort of wallow in the suffering of the characters and, you know? And so it's not like a quick shot of an arrow coming through Bacon's neck in Friday the 13th. It's like, if like, what if like Bacon screamed and cried and begged for like 20 minutes and, and while they were being tortured.

So it's like real, it's real, like technically like the prosthetics are great, but boy, it's like, very hard to watch you know oddly enough i think. That's what they're doing with this new like guardians of the galaxy holiday special yeah i watched that the other day and i did not expect that arrow through the next 20 minute crying thing but i thought it was weird when they brought bacon in but that's what they decided to do with them that's amazing well as someone who recently watched blood rage oh yeah i'm gonna. Stick with that yeah that's that is a. Whole lot of gore and a lot more. Fun oh yeah yeah yeah yeah i was like i wasn't into the the tone of the movie but yeah blood rage is is just hysterical and it's so much fun so.

Good did not expect it to be that much fun so yeah that's Again, kind of for all the wrong reasons sometimes, but the effects were the thing I always gave credit for. I was like, these effects are practical and you can tell they're silly effects, but they're having fun with them and they're giving you tons of blood and gore and that's what you're here for. So yeah, I'll take that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

So other than that warning. I'm just looking at the crap I watched recently and, uh, I did show, try to show my 14 year old, they live. And, uh, he said like, dad, where can I get some of those left-leaning glasses that they, uh. I don't know if it officially came across that way originally, but now I can definitely see that. Yeah.

I would go like, but I said like, I said like, Cameron, no, they're not left leaning glasses. They're showing that when he puts on the glasses, he's supposed to be seeing what's actually going on here. It's not just giving you a slant. And they want you to be a, they want you to be a consumer, which is a little more rightly. That's true.

Be a good consumer and give us more money. That's, that's leaning the other way. So that's balanced in its weirdness. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. He, he, he basically made me turn it off. It was too disturbing. He said, he said like, dad, I don't want to watch a movie that says like, you know, everything's broken and you can't believe in the institutions, you know? know, I go like, I go like, that's so funny to me because that's exactly where my head was at his age. You know, it might be a little more clued in than we realize.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. I've said it before, I believe, but I, I'm like, that's one of those that's considered a classic, but I'm like, I feel like you could do a remake and it would probably help. Because I mean, as much as I love some Piper, but yeah, he's not there.

For his acting skills. No, sir. Again, another one of those that seemed like a great guy, like towards the end, he was doing appearances and seemed really cool, but like, yep. he's you know and his inclusion there's no way that if that because to me that should have been the third entry in the trilogy of kurt russell right like look at it he's got the hair he's got that 80s era of kurt russell hair he's wearing a flannel shirt like that's what he should have been following up like you got the thing you got you know uh big trouble china and then you got they live like that should have been the And Kurt Russell in that role at that era would have been great. Especially with the commentary and all this other stuff.

But once he's not there, then you're like, well, we got Piper. Let's do this 12-minute fight. Scene for no good reason. So I'm like, there's no way that would have been included with Kurt Russell in the lead. It wouldn't have been there.

It would have been a tighter. more well balanced kind of a story that like, I feel like, yeah, as much as I know it's sacrilege to try to remake Carpenter, but like, I feel like there's, there's room that you could do. Cause it's such an interesting premise that like you could do so much with it. And I feel like they kind of graze that it's like the basics of what are there or what, you know, stuck with us. That's why I still talk about the glasses. We still say, you know.

Obey and consume and like, right. Have artwork of the crazy makeup of X. That stuff's all cool, but Somewhere along the way, I feel like the plot itself gets a little weak. So weak. The reputation of that movie is the first 30 minutes.

Yeah, it's a great idea. Yeah. And the short story it's based off of is the first 30 minutes of the movie. And then what's the short story? They don't know what to do after that.

They have no idea, so they have a 45-minute fight scene. Yeah, basically. Yeah, but it was interesting just you know, you try to show, you know, the, the coming, the, the, the, the next generation, these movies and, uh, you know, they're just either they take to it or they don't, but you know, um, but, uh, what else did I say? I don't know. I guess we just should give lip service to everything everywhere all at once.

You know, you know, I don't know. He seems taken with that one. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's just cool to see.

I wasn't short round, uh, growing up, making his comeback. Yeah. People up with a fanny pack. So, you know, you know, but yeah, other than that, man, nah, dude, you know, just preparing for this episode. I was like, well, like, wow, I've actually seen more movies than I thought I did.

So, you know, I was like, cause if you asked me on the, like, you know, walking down the street, you know, what have you seen? I would be like, I have, I don't know. I don't, do I watch movies? I have no idea. So this was cool, man.

You know, but yeah. Yeah. I think that's it. You got anything else? No, I think we've, we've covered a lot of ground here.

We did. We really did. I am glad we got a chance to put this together. That's why I wanted. To take advantage of this.

I actually, again, under these circumstances like doing this. So yeah. If you want to revisit this concept more. Often, I, yeah, I'm all for it. So we can, we can do this a little more often if you're, if you're game.

Yeah, sure, man. Absolutely, dude. I'm, you know, just, Whenever you need a placeholder and everything in between episodes, just give me a call and. I'll be there. I'm definitely on board with that.

All right, man. Cool deal. Well, once again, thanks for showing up for this and entertaining all these crazy tangents. Sure, man. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like I just went like through like, uh, uh, like a maze or something, you know, I feel like I've been elaborate for like. The maze of our cinematic minds. Yeah. There we go.

There we go. Craziness. All right. Well, otherwise that about does it. We will turn next time.

Same geek feed. Thanks for listening. Thanks bud. All right. See you later, man.

See you later, man. Watching with these open eyes Locked inside the place that no. One sees Talking to. Eternity Trying to explain Why I'm stuck inside. The maze All the colors fade Finally found a way But I'm right back where I started Now I'm stuck inside the.

Maze All the corners look the same But I finally found a way Another door, an empty room No one seems to have been. Here for some time Where have they. Gone Endless world of corridors Searching for the one that shows. The way. They look the same I remember Wandering.

Round Watching through these open eyes. Locked inside the place that no one can see. Talking to eternity. Trying to explain. Why I'm stuck inside the maze.

All the corners. We'll be right back. Thank you. Down these halls with many doors Around each corner right. Back to where.

I started Deep. Inside my mind it seems I try to find an open door to. Go through. So they can see. I'm all right.

Now I'm. Stuck inside the pain. All the cool has looked up. Another door, another room I've been this way before All the corners look the same. Now I'm stuck inside the maze Now I'm stuck inside this maze All the corners look the same All the corners.

Look the same. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, yeah. Seriously, seriously. Nobody has talked about Albert Pugh in as much as Movie Meltdown has.

No, no. Probably not. It's good stuff. Good stuff. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by the Audity Studios, with opening music performed by the Empires.

For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard! This program is a proud member of the Battleship Pretension Fleet.