21: The Patriot (1998)

Weird way. Hello when welcome to the podcast. Your podcasts are all Thanks Steven Sagal. I am Trevor Grumble of course as usual, and with me as always is my lovely co host Christue. It has been quite some time since we've done this, Trevor.

It has been we our Twitter followers started to notice, and we're not happy. I think they've noticed a lot quicker than they've reject to us. But I think also, yeah, it's been a while since we've done this show. We actually have some episodes recorded that are chronologically after this one, but we had kind of skipped over doing this one kind of by accident, which is just funny because I think of all the things that we've talked about and watched on this show, this might be the most unintentionally topical of all the things we've ever watched in a way that feels like, I'm not going to say that this movie is great, but what's shocking about this movie is it's kind of aged better in retrospect or more horrifyingly, because in a lot of ways, you could remake this movie now the exact You could remake this movie whole cloth for the most part, and people be like, oh, man, how topical it's It's crazy.

This is Stephen Sagall versus Ruby Ridge. Is what this movie is. Yeah, that's not the way it was pitched. I don't know how it was pitched, but yeah, folks. On this episode of the on Sagal podcast, we're back at it again talking about nineteen ninety eights, directed by Dean Semler, based on a book.

Not really though, but there's a virus in the book, so there's a virus in the movie. Talk about Steven Sagall's It's Stephen Sagall's first DTV features. So this is the this is the big one. This is the one that puts all the other ones into motion. We're talking about nineteen ninety eight's The Patriot.

In a country of rugged beauty where people live close to the land, Doctor Wesley McLaren has found a home. But even in this peaceful place, there are forces which threaten life. You know what I'm talking about, man, This is I'm talking about the CIA YEA forces which have unleashed a deadly virus. Got blood pressure is to forty over one twenty, respiration thirty in shallow. This guy looks pretty bad too.

How you feeling now he has become the town's only hope. I mean, response team here immediately, everybody in the moon since now can we best? People are right? But with the crisis spreading, how long before the people are gonna start dying? One or two days?

With the danger growing, do you realize what you've done? You've opened Pandora's box. Something in his daughter's immunity, maybe it's genetic, has become everyone's only chance to survive. We got that girl. If you got a shoot her, block the whole You're making a big mistake.

Now we can do this the easy way or the hard way. I think it's gonna be the hard way. I'm not a terrorist, a doctor. I'm here to help you. Steven Sagal, I worked it, doctor, Let's get with it.

The Patriot so, like I mentioned. Directed by Dean Semler, it stars Steven Sagal Guyard Sartayne, otherwise known as one of the two guys who's in all the Earnest movies. Uh yeah, which is fucking crazy. Well it's crazy is when I saw him and I heard his voice, I was like, oh my god, it's the guy from Ernest. Yeah, it is the guy from Ernest.

Also stars l Q. Jones, Silas we or Mitchell, But the one that I think we both obviously want to point out Camilla Bell, who ends up having a rather long career. Uh still kind of working, maybe not as much as she used to. Yeah, but she's essentially a child in this movie. I guess most people, probably our age remember her from Lost World where she's a little girl on the beach who gets eaten by the copies or gets attacked by them.

I guess we never never. They never say if she dies or no. No, they said they said she was fine, yeah, and they mentioned in the act scene she's surviving. So the movie is all about steven Sagall playing a former military researcher government researcher immunologists who lives in Montana. And out in Montana there are prepper guys and survivalists and white supremacists and whatever these guys are supposed to be, which I'm assuming is kind of a mix of all of that.

Like I alluded to with it being a Ruby Ridge thing, steven Sagall's town of Ennis is close to this encampment or colony of preppers, and they take it upon themselves to bite the local government. That's making their lives harder than they need to. And that's again the Ruby Ridge of it all, the Waco of it all. And so what we end up having is Steven Sagall, an immunologist, trying to figure out why, all of a sudden, in their small Montana town, all these people are dying from a very serious disease or virus that kills them more or less within like a day, is what it seems like. And so Steven Sagall and his pals, including a rancher and a government agent, have to stop the virus from spreading and also get a handle on the white supremacist So I'm curious.

I know you've never seen this, as I hadn't either, But what did you think of The Patriot? It wasn't terrible, right, I know what? It was one of the more entertaining Sigall films that I watched. And it's a pretty I mean, it's pretty standard fair. It's basically Segall wants to do outright right, Yeah, Sagal versus COVID in a lot of ways.

Yeah, Like you know, if if you know, if Outbreak, the Wolfgang Peterson film had been Stephen Sigall won, it probably would have been boring as hell, but are weird But yeah, I mean he plays this kind of immunologist who doesn't believe in big pharma. Right, he makes he makes out a point in in one scene. Uh, he's treating this friend of his. Uh what was he being treated for? Do you remember it?

All? I forget, But they use what they colloquially refer to in the movie so many times, and I don't think this term has an age. Well, red medicine, red medicine. Yeah, oh my god, what's the red in reference to Native American people? Yes, it literally is exactly what you think it is.

And Steven Siagall again trying to relate to the Native American people and feeling really fucking he just looks like a guy who wears moccasins and you know, tassels and thinks that, oh you know, oh how brother, I understand the plight to your people, Like, dude, go away, you're from Detroit A lot of man. You've got that at the gift shop? Yeah, bro, Like it's it always rings so hollow because this is what is this the second time or the third time he's done this? Well, he played the uh, the medicine guy in that one NFL grown No, no, well yeah, that but the ones where he's in uh China, oh, attrition, the one that the one of the Attritionian one of those DTV ones that we we did, like yeah, yeah that he played a medicine man at in that one.

Uh but yeah, he's never Steve call just really hates Western medicine. I guess so, and the US government apparently, yeah, he hates he I mean, why is he not on the militia, I mean shit, I mean he probably would be now if if if this movie were made in twenty a twenty four, he'd probably be the guy leading the militia exactly. And the militia's viewpoints aren't terribly well established other than they hate the government, right, they have no manifesto to to me, they seem like a pretty shitty militia, Like the government could easily take these guys out. Yeah, well well like yes, but no, but yes, that's the thing, because we see later on in the movie that they're clearly adept at killing people. But we when you see them initially, it's like effectively like three shipping containers stacked on top of each other turned into bunkers.

Like it's not even Ruby Ridge. It's not even Waco. It's like stupid Waco. And to your point, like on top of everything else, these morons take take the virus internally so that they can go and spread it exactly, but they don't realize that they don't have the anti virus. The anti virus doesn't work, so now they're all infected and they go then to try to kill the military and the medical people to get the antidote, which also doesn't work.

It's there to say their inept is to be kind. I mean, he could very well be the same character from the Earnest movies. Yeah, right, he got got radicalized by accident. Bobby said, you know, Bobby just said, man, you're too radical, and he just went off and did his own thing and left Bobby at the there's a scene in this movie where he sounds like Alex Jones. He's like, well, the Scott they've got worldwide consparisation and they're scanning the bar coaches when we go to the grocery store, and why don't you Joy meet You seem like a smart guy, and it's like this is just shit.

Like Alex Jones probably creamed his pants when he saw this movie. Alex Jones was like, this is porn man. Yeah, I mean it's the kind of shit that he parts now. I mean that's why I said it's like so topical, because the villain in this movie is literally a right wing supremacist, like a fascist. Like he makes it very unclear his his giant, his huge plan was to infect himself and to hopefully, you know, kill off millions of Americans.

He didn't really think his situation or the plan very well, because what is your game? Do you want to become like a martyr or something? Yeah, I don't. I don't get it. I guess they're doing it so that they can like show that they can one up the government, because I mean when they're in court, he's like, I don't understand why the US government, Kid, it's okay for them to come on to my land and take away my you know.

I mean you hear it all the time now, I mean you hear this shit constantly now and again, Like for me, when I look at that scene in this movie, like again, they don't go far enough, is what it feels like. To your point, It's like why why aren't they really spouting some like really crazy like rac shit, go full fuck, go full war man, I don't get it. It's like it or and I hear a villain anyway, just say the weirdest shit you can. Yeah, And I guess I don't get why they didn't push it far enough because again, like they have the opportunity. I look, guy Ard Sartaine is not any more physically imposing than most of the villains that Steven Siegall has to deal with.

He normally the people that he ends up having to kill at the end of his movies are not the physical threat. They're like the mental threat. They employed all the other people. I mean thinking of like someone like Bill Sadler, right, not a physical threat, or Henry Silva not eminently a threat. But again, you see how quickly Segal kills them.

I mean, the way he kills Guyard Sartain in this movie is fucking brutal. It's brutal. There's not a lot of action in this movie. I think that's the other thing that's probably the biggest failing of this movie is it's like two minutes of Segal well including his martial arts ability. Yeah yeah, yet that showcase here, it's mostly like guns and shit, like that, which we don't.

Really I don't associate with Steven Segal at all. I don't. He's not a gun guy. I think he kills three people with a gun in this movie maybe, And that's right after he takes a wine glass, knocks the cup of the top off and stabs it into Guyard Sartayne's head, which is like I had to rewind it a couple times because like what the book just happened, because he just kills him, just dead, and then like, wow, uh, well, I'm glad that the villain that the movie is building up the entire time is just dead. Now.

Yeah, Well he wasn't really that imposing of a villain. I didn't think. No, I mean the other guys Silas Weir Mitchell playing Pogue is more of a physically imposing character. But it always just feels like they don't let anybody be even on Segal's level, even close. No, well, that's we've talked about this before.

It's it's it's what Segal wants. Clearly. He never takes a hit, never even falls to the ground. He's always in control. Yeah, he's always he's always having he always has the high ground.

You know, everybody else is Anakin, he's Obi Wan. Yeah, yeah, And I really what I really don't like about this movie is that that they have leaned so far into it this time that the movie essentially has no action. It is a it is an action movie, sure, but like you said, like the stuff that you're ostensibly here for, this movie doesn't have a lot of no It's it's more based on tension and maybe a little bit of mystery as to how they're gonna how they're gonna solve this. I guess by the way the way they solve it is just eye rollingly fucking ridiculous. It's it feels very daus ex machina, like we're like probably like dayu's X Native American, Like, it's so fucking lazy.

It's just really lazy. It should tip you off, though, when we first talked about steven Sagall not trusting American medicine, Well, did you really tip you off on how the how it's gonna end with? You know? It was the plants all along, that was the cure. Yeah, this this just a layer gea.

This yeah, Chrismin's tea from Flowers. It's delicious. I really didn't think the tea that his daughter serves him at the beginning of the movie was going to be the way the movie gets out of it's its corner that it's backed itself into. But sure, that's pretty lazy. The matter humble wasn't true with a fertilizer.

Well that's I don't get any of this movie, Like, what what was the point? I was expecting Segal to turn the turn to the camera at some point and go remember on on deadly ground. This is what I expected him to do, his environmental message, and this this is him. Yeah, this is him preaching again. Yeah, this is him preaching about the evils of western medicine.

I don't get it, Like, why do you, why, Steven Sagall, do you take it upon yourself to constantly make the movies about something? And I'm not saying movies don't need to be about something, but Steven Seagal never has a point to make. He never gets even, he never even whiffs at a point. He is completely out in the fucking Weeds concert. And I don't just it's always just it's always just hero worship for him, and the hero he's worshiping is himself.

Yeah, he loves himself. Man. Can we talk about the director. Sure, let's talk about Dean Semmler, who has done cinematography for a whole bunch of things. He's won an Oscar.

I mean, this guy is like, he's not a director by trade. He's mostly known for cinematography. I think he's done a lot of stuff with Spielberg. He did one of my favorite movies, Super Marketer Brothers. Yeah, he's done Dan to Wolves.

He won for Dances with Wolves. Yeah, I mean, he worked on Apocalypto. I mean he's worked as recently as twenty nineteen with Playing with Fire, that John Cena Firefighter movie which John Linquiza. Speaking of Mario Brothers, John Lee, you think him and John leg Waszaba on the set were like, hey, remember in the nineties we worked on that wild ass Mario Brothers movie. You had the best alcohol man.

Yeah, I mean, I tell you. It's what's funny is looking at his his filmography. Do you know what his only other film he directed was same year, same year as this one. What how he long is? Five years?

Oh? Right, right? I read that. I remember reading that smoke Jumper Jesse Graves. Oh, this one was like backtrapped in a Forest.

This was like Fox trying to make how we Low their next action star the ride it with the Boss Baby and it didn't work. Come on, well, why do you think we kicked them out of Seattle? Man? He lost? I'll tell you what.

I actually just recently saw a goal Mad Max two and Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. I had never seen them before, and he did the He did the cinematography on both of those movies, and man, those are great. Oh yeah, they're great movies, both of them. And again, like that's the thing I actually think in terms of him being a director. This movie is well shot, but it's nothing special.

The term that we often use is workman like, and I think it is rather workman like. And look, he's an Australian cinematographer and film director, so having worked on or with Australians seems to be something he does frequently. But yeah, I mean I kind of wish there was more to this movie because it has a lot of parts that theoretically added together should be interesting. I mean, look, I will say this setting alone is pretty unique. We don't get a lot of movies set in Montana like this.

Like alone, it's an interesting setup. You know what I mean. Yeah, unless they're like westerns that like, or movies about horses, right, you don't really about Montana. No, there's not like an action movie that I can point to and be like, this takes place in Montana. But that's it.

That's what's interesting about Segal because if we back this up, Sagall has done an Alaska action movie, He's done a Montana action movie, and then he's also done like a deep South like Kentucky's was a Kentucky or Tennessee where fire down below it was one of those two. Right, it's like somewhere in somewhere in there, like I will say, it doesn't the one in Louisiana. No, that's the van you're thinking of Van dam Oh with hard target. Yeah, with heart target, because that takes place in like the Bayou. Right, Yeah, but that's the thing like that, I mean, that is kind of it in terms of like these kinds of movies.

These are not big budget action stars. In the nineties, the movies that they were making were higher concept than this, like a Schwarzenegger. Schwarzenegger wasn't even making terrestrial movies at some point. He was making big sci fi things or you know, big God knows what else, like comic book movies and stuff in the night. Yeah, so what I will say, I appreciate that Steven Sagall seems committed to, like, at least at this part of his career, making weird action movies in the States that are uniquely like.

There are very few movies themed the way that this one is, with a cattle cattle rancher slash farmer who's a ex immunologist the weirdest like, it's so ham fisted. Sagall always wants to be an expert on something that there's no reasonable human being would believe he's an immunologist. I'll give him this. He's slightly more likable than he usually is in this film because of his daughter. Somehow he comes off better when he's around her than he has any right to be.

Right. Yeah, I mean Camilla bell Is, it's fine. She's a child actor. This is after Jurassic World. She was eleven at the time this movie came out.

Eleven. Yeah. Yeah. He was born in eighty six, so she was twelve. Yeah, she was twelve twelve yeah yeah, yeah, so I find a gall I think Sigall kind of had a little paternal instinct kick in who's better as a father on screen Schwarzenegger at the beginning at Commando or Steven Seagal or I guess not beginning a Comando Schwarzenegger Sagal Schwarzenegger.

Is he a more believable parent? Though, yes, you think so? Absolutely okay, because the scene where Schwarzenegger feeds a deer some feed always cracks me up to see barely basing that on that one scene, I read fair fair, but it is I would say that I can I did think of. I find Segall is more believable doing what he's doing in this movie than Schwarzenegger is as a dad to a Like, That's the thing. Schwarzenegger is ex military in Commando, right, and Segal is eximmunologist in this movie.

Kaul is more believable in this movie, Like I kind of believe his shtick in this movie more than I believed it in anything else I've seen him in. In terms of these kinds of movies, Commando wasn't the best basis for comparison, No, but also how many movies have a I mean, the setup for these movies are very similar, is my point, Shingle all the way. You played it, you go all the way? Come on, yeah, and look, I'll defend Jingle all the way, and so will you. But that's our problem, not anybody else's.

I love Jingle all the way. I mean Schwarzenegger, I think in terms of him being like a family man, that's never been a thing that really I think should be a motivator. And that's just a way, like like you just alluded to, especially with Segall, it's a way to endear him to a different group of people in the audience. Heh, yeah, I mean the muscles I think people might find intimidating. I think maybe that's why Sigall is a little more believable to you, because Sigall has more of a father figure, no pun intended.

Yeah, you he looks like what a typical father would look like. I mean, but dad Bod Schwarzenegger has always been this, you know, buff like Titan, you know, and he's always been seen as like the telling me at the end of Jingle all the way, when the woman, the woman that Rita Wilson is couldn't recognize her husband dressed in in a perbo man outfit. Are you telling me, that's not believable. Howard, I oward you're telling me you just realized, you just realize your husband's attractive. Come on to your point.

Yeah, but Schwarzenegger is I don't believe him as a dad. I don't. He's too he's too Yeah, he tries. And what's weird is like Siegal just comes off as more of a dad, probably because he's more detached and more emotionally like stunted as a human being. But who would you rather have as a father.

I mean they're both kind of problematic in their own way. I mean Schwarzenegger's not. I mean we've never really talked about it, but Schwarzenegger's not exactly of an ally to women in the way I think he maybe thinks he is. Yeah, and he's right, but we won't have any act. Yeah, well can you imagine that being married to Maria Schriver and just being like, oh my nanny, huh Like okay, hey, you like what you're like?

I mean, yeah, I can't, I am He'll like that is true. Schwarzenegger does like other women that are not his wife. You're right, I mean, you know, to quote Jingle all the way, I'm not the pervelt. I was looking for a tugamando. He's not a pervert.

That's hey, you know what, at least Swartzenegger is not problematic that way, because Steven Siagall is. No. I mean he's more like problematic in a cheating asshole way. Yeah, like's more unwanted affection way. Yeah, like diplomatic.

It's a good thing. Camilla bel was only eleven at the time. Yeah, too bad. She wasn't like Catherine Heigel and Undersiege too right once is she's seventeen? Yeah?

Was segal Man? That just no chill Man has no chill. No, And that's the thing. And that's the thing in this movie. I'll tell you the role that he's playing.

Tell what's the character's name, Steve, Doctor Steven Sagall might as well be like at this point, at this point, at this point, he has finally honed his character down to a point. And I don't think and I think we we can see this because we've watched so much of his stuff now, I don't think he's ever going to move off of this setting anymore, like this is this is it? He never he never really had much the range to be beginning with. Yeah, but he's worked himself up to this point now, Like there was a point where he didn't think his part smelled so great, and now he loves the way his own fart smelled, you know what I mean. Like, that's where we are now, and there's never going to be like a pivot back from that, because in the land of direct to video stuff, someone like a Sigall is still a catch names.

You're right, he's too far gone. Yeah, he going back, No, he he He's made himself kind of very unpopular in the industry by being who he is, which is fine. They're winning people that will pay you to be an asshole in Hollywood. And I don't think there's a finite amount of apologies the man could give that would make people have people let him make movies again. Here, No, and he's past his prime.

He's not and he's not an actor that And I think about this a lot. Man, Like, ten years from now, there may not even be a group of people that care about Steven Sagall anymore. If there are now, Like, I'm not sure anyone well, your stuff has slowed down a lot, but I'm not sure anyone ten years younger than me, so in their mid twenties, has seen a steven Sagall movie before? Oh, I hears out it, right, and like at that point, it doesn't matter if he's making movies anymore or not. And like that's the thing he's you know, hold he is.

He's seventy two, man, like he's old. He's a old guy. Now, he's not a young dude anymore. So if he's making movies at this point, it's tantamount to Harrison Ford doing Indiana Jones Ken, right, just just you gotta walk away and look? Am I disappointed that possible?

His last movie is the second thing that we ever covered with General or I guess not General Commander. It's Beyond the Law. General Commander was his second to last movie. Am I disappointed that Beyond the Law might be his last movie? Yes?

Given that Above the Law too was rumored still is technically rumored to be existing. I would like to We're gonna happen, right, I'd like to see him make one more movie the way he used to. But at this point, dude, like I've known you for like what five years something like that? At this longer than that, I think like the last time he made a movie was twenty nineteen, which is either the year I think that's like the year you and I met. So it's been five years since he made anything.

And yes, three of those years or maybe three I think most people would say were pandemic years where most things weren't happening anyways. So I think unless somebody does something with him that really gets him go, and I think he's probably content to just live in Do Buy or wherever the fuck he lives and do I do every day and have people tell him how grady is at ike do, because that's the thing you and I would both contend. He is good at ike do. That's yeah, there's no question there. Like I believe he could kill me in two seconds if he met me, and I don't.

I'm not being hyperbolic. Problem is the man has no Hugo, right, but and that's I mean, that's the industry. Unfortunately, the industry then in the nineties really it didn't know how to handle people like that the way they do now. People, you can't do that anymore, like the world will get out too quickly, too many people will know, like you can keep it under wraps. Now in the nineties, the internet's still just barely a thing.

Studios were only worried about the bottom line, and they saw this trend of more martial arts talented actors doing action films. So I want it in the States at least in the States. And the studios want to get in on this. They want to get anything. That's why you saw a lot of like Jeff Speakman, or like Don and Dragon Wilson, you know, stuff like that.

I mean, Brandon Leaky tried to with hard Target. I'm not hard target, God damn it? Uh with uh uh what was it called? What about Mark Dakaskas Mark Dicasco's uh from Iron Chef. Oh, what a weird if, what a weird career pivot that man has hat.

I think we're gonna see double Dragon. No, but he's also Chairman Caga's nephew in Iron Chef America, which always makes me laugh. I always. I just a couple of days ago watched the compilation of Today's Secret Ingredients. Oh, he's so good when he reveals that he he under he understands the assignment as it were.

And to your point about the nineties, like Steven Sigal by the way, by the way, rapid Fire that wasn't even that happened, So that's what. But to your point, like this idea of in the nineties, it was it was coming to a close the kind like I don't know if you would agree with me entirely, but I think that this is a pretty fair statement to make. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Steven Segahl, Jean Claudvin Dam, Sylvester Stallone haven't made a lot of great movies host the mid nineties. They had a time and it was like fifteen years though, would they the three of them or four of them were kind of all punching at each other. I mean, you know, Stallone and Schwarzenegger going back and forth in the eighties was a thing.

I mean, you know Stopper, my mom will shoot the famous story with that movie it is, you know schwartz Yever, Schwarzenegger baited Stallone into taking it, and he took the fucking bait. But like like you alluded to, the tastes in the nineties and the late nineties were very different, and that's you know, something like Rush Hour comes out in the late nineties, which introduces a lot of Americans for the first time to Jackie Chan and then that, like you said kind of becomes the prevailing thing for a while. Crouching Tiger, Hitden, Dragon makes Big Waves, Rush Hour two comes out, Shanghai Noon, Shanghai Night, all these jetly movies like the I mean again, like the One or Again, and then you even alluded to kind of the some of the smaller name people.

But the expectations going into the two thousands were very different from what people wanted in the eighties and nineties. I mean, you can even see it, you know, we were talking about it right before we started recording. But wrestling trends followed that too. I mean, in the eighties and nineties, you had big professions. As you know, the Undertaker is the most famous wrestler and his name is what his profession is.

That that has been able to survive for thirty years plus, but in a lot of ways, it's kind of the outlier that proves the rule. And Schwarzenegger's stallone and Jean Claude van Dam and Steven Sagall haven't really done as much as well since like the late nineties that they would have in those subsequent twenty years before that. Well, and when they do they try to go back to the well, right and it's like you very do this again. Varying successes, although I will I do say Rambo, the fourth one is really fucking good. The fourth one is in ram the one in Gambodia.

Yeah, yeah, that was great. I saw that one in theaters. I would, oh they agree, the one with Julie Ben last Yes, the last one was kind of racist. That the one where he's killing all the people at the border. Yeah, and the Mexicans and oh boy, great it did seem a little.

But you know, Arold Schwarzengger, how many Terminator movies has he done? Now? What since Terminator two? Well like Ternator, Terminator two, Germinator three, Grimator, Genesis, Terminator, Salvation, Germinator. Uh he wasn't in Salvation, that's the only one he wasn't in.

Well his his face was sure, but he thankfully it was uh one, two, three. He's been in five now because he was in Dark Fate and Genesis. Uh yeah. And the problem is to the varying to declining box office says yeah, like okay, and the last good Schwarzeneger movie. I think most people would sit and be like that was a great movie, and I really enjoyed it.

Nineteen ninety five. Do you know what that film is True Lives, Yeah, yeah, after that Eraser Junior Jingle all the Way and Batman and Robin End of Days, the Sixth Day, Collateral Damage Terminator three. I do know. Here's the thing. I love these movies, and so do you.

But like that is because I also like, I love Schwarzenegger period. But I am literally pointing to objective fact that none of these movies that I've mentioned moved the needle the way Commando Red Under Red Heat, Total Recall, Kindergarden Cop Like those movies are beloved movies. I like a lot of Schwarzenegger's stuff. I tolerate probably more than most people do, just like you do. But even I can acknowledge from two thousand, from nineteen ninety four until now, he's made a couple good things, but for the most part he's done a lot of ho hum, same bullshit.

Well, he did the expendable Silms, just very word of Here's the thing about Salon, No, he was smart when he went back to like the Rocky franchise because he didn't try to have Rocky still be you know the consider the focus well, I mean Rocky about bo he was the focus, but then he knew, Okay, I can't do this anymore. You know, if I want to keep making the movies, I'm I'm gonna have to be like the Mickey role, you know well. And Stallone. I mean, look, I think it might be fair that I lumped Stallone in, but I think Stallone also pivoted. Like Stallone is much more of an actor then I'm not saying Schwarzenegger is not an actor, but like Schwarzenegger is a lot of things, and I think Stallone, I mean, look, Stallone wrote the script for Rocky like he ye, like he's on the fucking oscar.

He's a smart guy. I mean, to your points, to your point, like it might be a little bit of an unfair comparison, but it's a fair comparison only in terms of they're not. Schwarzenegger doesn't make the kinds of things he's known for making anymore, and Stallone really doesn't. Like Stallone was the voice in Suicide Squad of King Shark, but you didn't see him on screen, Like no, he's and when he is on screen, he's either doing something he's already done, or he's doing something different. Like that show that's on what is it on, paramt Plush, Yeah, the one where he's like a mobster in Tulsa Tulsa King like Tulsa King.

Yeah yeah, Like these kinds of things are not what I would expect from someone like Stallone. So it's nice to see that he's pivoted. Schwarzenegger hasn't pivoted. Schwarzenegger kind of is just still doing this ling Well. I think Schwarzenegger, what he does, he pivots more towards comedic action.

When he stuff was always kind of funny, right like, well, yeah, I mean, what's serious Schwarzenegger movie Collateral Damage? Like you know, like most of his stuff, his one liners are always good for the most part. Like that's what he's known for, is goddamn one liners. Yeah, I mean that's he's tried, God bless him to try to be known for more than just that. He does have good comedic timing.

But I can't see Schwarzenegger doing anything like dramatic seen Maggie, I haven't. It's Oh, it's okay, Like I wouldn't rush out to see it. To your point, he's like okay as a dramatic actor, but he doesn't. I think Schwarzenegger is bigger than life like and that's verir even now, like even now, even now, he can post a video on YouTube and people will stop and listen to him because for a lot of people like yourself, like myself, he was inescapable. He was everywhere he became governor because of his film career, and you know what, a lot of people wish they had a Republican like him kicking around now because you know what, you might not have liked him then, but comparatively he looks like a fucking saint.

Well when he does videos now, he's very much a centrist, yeah, kind of. I mean he's definitely pushing himself away from a Steven de Way and where Steven Segala is kind of embraced. That's the thing. I mean, he's definitely swayed more into this is what Republicans used to be and we should be again, right, rather than let's toe that Trump line. And he'd been vocal about how Trump is not what Republican he thinks of as a repulicay right, Well, the kind of Republican that he was when he was governor.

And that's the other thing we can obviously never know what would have happened to Steve steven Sagall's career had never gone to DTV. We can never know that, just like we can never know what would have happened if Schwarzenegger had never become governor, because there's essentially ten years where he does nothing. It's cameos, cameo, cameo, CA. I mean, you can look at it from the Rundown until the Last Stand, Those Up until Last Stand, Around the World in eighty Days, the Rundown, the Kid and I, Expendables and Expendables too, all essentially cameos. Have you seen have you seen The Last Stand?

Yeah? And it's pretty good. Yeah, but it's good in spite of essentially everything else that would come out after it, like well, ye escape, I mean, or sabotage or I'm not a fan of the Expendables movies personally. I find them to just that's fine. They're okay after a while, like they the Novelty Wears Off after the fourth one was pretty bad.

I stopped after the second one. Well, I mean I thought that the second one was. I like the second one, probably because they had Chuck Norris in it, and probably for the memes. They had him in it for the memes, that's all. Then every able it gets to go.

He doesn't work with twenty people, you know well. And Stallone, I mean he did Bullet to the Head, which is a movie I did not care for. But yeah, I mean Stallone, he knows when to hang it up. Yeah, I went to pivot to something else. Like if Schwarzenegger made another movie this year, I don't think it would be like a serious movie.

I mean, look, the last thing he made was Terminator Dark Fit, which was anything but serious, Like it was another Mainator movie. And now there's this Twins two that's in limbo, whatever the fuck's happening to it. I's and to your point, like I think Schwarzenegger should have pivoted earlier. I think still Stallone pivoted at the right time. I think Segall has yet to pivot.

And never I mean, like we said, he never will at this point. He's missed, missed the opportunity by a by a long shot. He's a lost cause, man, I mean that's what. But that's the sad thing about a movie like The Patriot is is the movie A movie like The Patriot isn't Honestly, it's kind of a shock that this movie is a DTV movie. I mean, it feels like it only because the lack of action.

Well, it was released theatrically in some countries, though it's almost it was almost released theatrically here. I think it just there's not enough here to to I think interest an audience at the time who had seen all of his other stuff. I mean, all the other things that we've watched up to this point have a lot more action than this movie does. And it's action that actually leans on him as an as a I do practicer. I mean, in terms of story, it's pretty thin.

The whole movie is only what ninety minutes. It doesn't use the time wisely plastic beakers, speakers, plastic beakers. When he says plastic beakers and he says it again, so they cut the monkeys with glass. It's like, what are you talking about, you, psycho. That's a missed opportunity event he could have killed Gaylor to start taking with a plastic beaker.

I mean, I don't. Yeah, yo, Honestly, that's the other thing about this movie. I mean, we we've kind of talked about this a lot. When it comes to Segal and I guess it probably bears repeating here, but the climax of this movie is really poorly done. I mean, well, it's rushed.

It's so rushed. Yeah, it kind of comes out of nowhere, like there are no stakes, and there's this kind of ticking clock because oh, you know, the the virus will kill you very quickly and we have to figure out how to cure everybody quickly and otherwise everybody's gonna die. But there's no there is no sense of tension now a virus. Well, with Outbreak, they at least let you believe that the outbreak is about to do this, this, this, this, this, and the government's about to bomb the city, you know, to contain it. Right, there was a sense of tension there with this one.

There's no there's no US government threatening out uh an extremination or anything like that. It's it's more of just, oh, we found the QR, here's the tea drink. You're done. It's kind of you know, I think though obviously you know this is this is kind of a seminal moment for the show. Obviously it took us a while to get here literally figuratively, all of all of it, because again, we kind of took a break.

You and I, yeah, focus on our mental health and other things. But obviously also I mean it's what's funny is we took a break at the point where literally now we have no more of the films that people would call quality, Like this is the first d TV movie. This is probably for a lot of people, this might have been the last thing most people heard Steven Seghal was in for a while until we get to I mean, obviously there will be a couple things that we talk about that that come out, but this is I mean, this is it. I mean we get Exit Wounds and then Machete, but exit Wounds, I think is Exit Wins is like the big one. I think in terms of like things that people might be seeing him in, I guess that ones and what Half Past Dead probably those those are the two big ones, and maybe the Onion movie.

Yeah. Yeah, But but he's not I mean, like he's not even I mean again in terms of like being the main star. But I have to ask you, yeah, what's up. If we were to look back at the last however many movies, it's been above the law, hard to kill mark for death Out for Justice, under Siege on Deadly Ground, under siege to executive Decision, the glimmer Man or fire down below. Where do you put what's at the top and what's at the bottom?

For you, well, top is under siege? Okay, well, yeah, that's right. You're you're a huge fan of undersiege. Yeah. I like both of them, So I would say both, and I say it's a piece you mean, yes, a number two.

I'm put around Mark for Death, that Out for Justice and Hard to Kill. You're going to do all ten of them in No, just the first and the last one honestly, Uh, what's that? What's the height? What's the peak? And what's the valley?

Peak is under siege and like Mark for Death, the valley is is God Like there's a couple things vying through the bottom. Here are we talking about his all filmography? No, just the things that were theater, like the theatrical because but this is there's no more Theatrica. I would say around half Beast Dead or the glitner Man. Actually, the glinner Man might be the start of the nature.

You think that the do you think that the Glimerman is the is the low part is the lowest point in his theatrical Well, either that or half Past Dead. Okay, I haven't seen Half Past Dead, so it's that bad? Yeah, or you know that's too bad, I would say so far in terms of like the time that he was known for doing theatrical stuff. I'm gonna say yeah, I think and will probably get you on to do an episode on Film Foundations on Steven Siegal because I think it would be fun, especially given that we're kind of doing all of his stuff as it is. But I think I'm probably in terms of like the thing that I would say like most people would need to see, I think you're probably right.

I think Undersea just kind of the Steven Sagall film in terms of like the big world saving one. I think, you know, to your point mark under each two, I mean, well, well that's the thing like Undersaege one and Undersage two are so like the world's ending and we've got to stop the world from ending. I don't think Segall works best when it's like world ending. I actually know. I think that Like to your point, Marked for Death, I love Marked for Death.

The music in that movie is great. I mean it has like some voodooy stuff there's that scene where he's just pretty it's pretty fucking brutal. Yeah, I think the way he the way he kills Screwface at the end of the movie is fucking intense. I mean it's it's no fucking joke. I yeah, I think I'm with you.

I think under Siege, under Siege and Marked for Death are two similar songs played in a different key. But yeah, I think that's why I put them both so close to each Yeah. I mean they're fair, They're good for different reasons, and I think they represent like the same they represent two sides of the same coin with Steven Sagall, which I think when talking about him, is important. But uh, yeah, man, I'm gonna say probably the bottom of the pack, the thing that really is not great. Uh probably Fired down Below, Like on Deadly Ground, I kind of have a soft spot for us, but Fire Below is Fire down Below is pretty bad.

I mean, I don't know. I think it was confused though, which was the one Michael Kaye on Deadly Ground the Alaska one? Fire down Below is the Chris Christofferson all the random country Western singers trying to kill Steven Segal. Okay, I might have to change my vote then, because On Deadly Ground was pretty fucking bad. On Deadly Ground and Fire down Below are preachy.

Very it was, but it was Cigal. It was Cigal at his most ego because he thought he could direct this and just do everything I would. I might even I might actually amend my answer. Yeah, just the fact that he directed On Deadly Ground, and that probably puts it the worst thing he he's done, I think period, in terms of the things most people would have seen is is on Deadly Ground. You're probably right because he is why everything to blame it's is it is a problem of his own creation.

And I'm not gonna blame Michael Kane because he probably did the film for the same reason he did Jaws three or Jaws four. Is essentially alluded it to it as much, right, Like, like, I haven't seen Jaws four by all account is terrible, but I have seen the house it's built, and it's beautiful. Yeah, exactly like and and I wouldn't be surprised if that's why Michael Kane was in On Deadly Ground. But I think to your point, I mean, On Deadly Ground is also a movie that we literally somehow avoided having an hour long, fucking end of the movie rant by Steven Sagall about how bad, how bad it is to be, you know, trilling for oil in Alaska, which I'm not saying it's good or bad, but I don't need to listen to Steven Sagall talk about it for a look, dude, nobody wants to hear your ideology.

Dude, seriously. Well, his ideology is more popular now than it never has been. Unfortunately, Well, they didn't want to hear it at the time, right, Well, that's the I mean about say. It also has to do with the messenger of it, rather more than less of the message, more about who the messenger is. That's fair.

Yeah, yeah, I don't. The last thing anybody really needs is Steven Sagall is following the lead of someone like Steven Seagall. And that's the thing. I mean, he's out of touch with reality. He's out of touch with the industry.

And this is for me. I mean, we we are now at the point with this show where everything from here on out is going to be DTV styeah, So you know we've got a lot to get through. I mean, the bulk majority of his stuff is DTV, heavily DTV. I mean, he's he's making DTV movies a lot, a lot, A lot, a lot. I mean, we're we got a lot to get through.

But yeah, this is this is I think this movie honestly was as close as I've seen so far to a movie host his big movies that was like, eh, this probably could have stood to have been in theaters. It was the closest I think. Yeah. I mean, if it had gone to theaters, I wouldn't have been surprised. It probably would have been met of the movies that came in debut at number six or seven and then dropped off the next weekend.

Yeah, Like, it's it's nothing special, it's nothing really that exciting. It's not an un it's not a hidden gem. Honestly, I still it's not unwatchable, rightable, And I still think you'd probably agree with me that attrition is probably the like saying that I did not expect to find in his filmography, which is a good late stage Sagal movie, but this, Yeah, this, this checks a couple of boxes. But it's okay. And for a movie called The Patriot Boy, it's pretty ironic that it's about Steven Sagal, given how unpatriotic.

He essentially is now at this point, raw raw America, and now he's anyone. It's wild to me, look for me, for me. Steven Sagall is a guy who when he's on, he's on, and for the things that he was on in in the nineties, we're gonna to see a lot of him being off in the twentys and twenty tens, because that's yeah, we might hit the occasional glimmer and bright spot, but I'm not holding out too much joke no me either. And like you said, if even the movies that came out after this that went to theaters weren't great, that's also disappointing because given how infrequently he would be making movies in theaters, it would be nice if at least those movies were good, but it may not be the case. So and so well, Yeah, on the next episode, you and I will be traveling all the way into the past but future of twenty fifteen to talk about s twenty fourteen with gut Shot Straight, which the character that he plays in that movie, I think his name is Hollie Trunks Crazy.

Is he a mobster, yes, a lone shark specifically, so great oh my god. One can only fucking imagine. So until then, where can people find you? Trevor? You can you feel me usual on X man or to Go, But I heard they ever use x anymore, So you can find me on LuSE Guide the same.

You can find me on Instagram at the same. Yeah, and work people find you, Chris find me at weirdingweymedia dot com. Where this show and all the other shows that I work on can be found. Yeah, all of everything. But if you are into James Bond films, which if you listen to this show you might be, you can get in on patreon dot com, slash culturecast or Patreon dot com, slash Projection booth ten dollars or higher.

You get to listen to Mike White, Richard Adam of Richard Adams Paranormal Bookshelf, and I spend one weekend a month talking about James Bond movies. And right now, the last episode you would hear if you were supporting us is Goldfingers. So we're just getting into the really good stuff. So if that's something you're into, head on over there, like rate and review the show on iTunes please, even if you don't get it on iTunes like, rate and review the show on iTunes that's where most people get their shows. And yeah, as always we'll catch on the next episode.

Sing again.