Episode 28: The Mad Mad Mad Comedians (1970)

We're welcome to Ranking on Bass and Offhand Choke that became a long running podcast. I'm your host, Mike White and knock knock Chris. Who's there, Cristasie, Christasie? Who Cristachie? You?

Hey, you guys like Columbus. I heard you guys like Columbus. So I'm gonna do a whole flip. It's Columbus and it's funny. And the seventies are here, folks, We're here.

It's the seventies, and the comedy is it's mad, Mad Mad. Also also here also busting you got, tickling your funny bone and touching you in all the bad places is mister Richard HadAM the devil made me by this dress. That's my flip Wilson impression. Very nice, Thank you very much. I want to hear your WC.

Fields though. That's the Oh well, we'll get there. I can't really do it. Thanks being it. Yeah.

On this podcast, we discussed the works of Arthur Rinklin Junior and Jules Mass specifically their stop motion and animated work. Really we covered the live action too, but we're back in animated territory. We're back with our good friends over at Mushi production. This is a special that ran before the Oscar Ceremony way back in nineteen seventy and they were talking about this becoming a series with a thirteen episode order, but it just was a pilot. This is a failed pilot, Ladies and gentlemen.

It's kind of it's like an animated laughing I would say, it's probably the best way to put this, though. We're celebrating those mad mad mad and they probably spent money on this theme song thinking that this was going to be a show, because the theme song takes up quite a few minutes. Here, our good friend more Laws writing that, and yeah, this is basically it's vignettes. It's all animated, and it's vignettes of classic quote unquote comedians, some more classic than others. And I don't know about you guys, but when I was growing up, I was way into comedy and a lot of comedy albums.

Really wanted to know about all these comedians. So this was a little bit of a nostalgia fest for me in some respect. But I'm curious to hear what you guys thought of it, especially you, Chris, because you are the youngest of the group. Take my wife please take my wife, and that's my entry point here. And as we all know, Henny Youngman plays himself and good fellows, so that's all I could think of.

It's not that I don't know these comedians, but this is this might be the first thing we've watched where to be of a certain age and watch this benefits you more than us another age, because this does not have the timeless nature that most of the ranking and bast of does, to the point where I feel like you put this on for anybody who's maybe my age or a little younger, and they might not know anybody, and they might also look at this and go, why are you wasting my time? I didn't feel that way. I thought it was. I think it's fine. Like you said, it's pretty much just laughing but animated, so I mean again, novel novel concept, but it's fine.

Again. I'm I know who these people are only because spend a lot of my time watching stuff go figure, so I know who the Smothers brothers are in WC. Fields and Henny Youngman and Phyllis Diller and Jack Benny and George Burns, like I know who those people are, but I don't know them the same way y'all do, so I don't. I've never seen like a WC. Fields movie, So like, there are just some things here that I don't have a frame of reference for in the moment.

I have it much much longer after the fact. So it's it's, like you said, being the youngest one here kind of I'm kind of the litmus test for if this is still entertaining, maybe you could say, and I still found it entertaining, But I don't know if anybody younger than me really would like I just I think it would it would fall flat on its face. Frankly, Well, this hits it a weird time. It's nineteen seventy now. The fact that it's called The Mad, Mad Mad Comedians made me think, oh, well, it must have been the same year that It's a Mad, Mad Mad Mad World came out with, which was a movie that featured just a giant grab bag of people who were known for comedy from all different all different rooms of the comedy mansion.

But then I looked it up and that movie came out of nineteen sixty three, right, yeah, So then I'm like, okay, So now now I'm still trying to figure out why this was a good idea and then and then I'm like, well, you know, late sixties early seventies was a time of sort of a renaissance for some old time comedians. Mark's brothers, specifically in the mid seventies Grout show who was still alive? The other Chico and Harpo were not. I'm sorry Chico and Harpo were not. And what about Zeppo?

Zeppo was still alive? Okay, but but but was okay? And you're I can tell you're choking because why why else would you bring up Zeppo? I always think of that thing from Cheers when Lolith is talking to Fraser and she's like, oh, I always love Zeppo. I just love the way he just stands there.

It's so funny, right, Yeah, he was in like the first five of the movies that were done at Paramount, and then he dropped out when they went to MGM. But yeah, I love Zeppo by the way, Like, I think he's got some really good lines, especially in Duck Soup. I think he was a very needed character, especially because you had the three lunatics and then you had him as almost a straight man but also kind of as funny as his Brothers sometimes, but he played an interesting part in that group. Well, he didn't have a handle, a visual handle and the way the others did, so there was no accent, there was no gimmicks to him. So he was definitely on the side of the Marx Brothers.

It's like he almost felt like, these are my three crazy uncles, and I'm Steve Gutenberg, and I bring in a man, you know, and it's like, okay, so they're all the crazy ones, but you're kind of the young, good looking one who vouches for them and is and thinks they're awesome and and so that's that's kind of I don't know, that's kind of how I feel. Zeppo was best represented in the Marks Brothers. But anyway, in the early seventies through the mid seventies, in fact, up until his death in nineteen seventy seven, Groucho had a resurgence and popularity college campuses across America. He was sort of he and then his early films from the thirties and forties were seen as they were sort of taken on as the sort of anti establishment almost you know, mascots of the hippies and them, and you know, the kids against the war in Vietnam, and he was awesome.

I mean, he spoke out. He thought Nixon was terrible. And so there were a lot of people who were discovering their anarchic sense of humor in their movies and then realizing Groucho was still alive, and they would go to UCLA and he would introduce animal crackers, which hadn't been seen for years. But anyway, all of which is to say that we got to a point in the seventies where a lot of comedy was looking backward. Now this special did something interesting, which was it had the old guys, but it had some new guys.

It had Flip Wilson, and it had the Smothers brothers. So it's like, hey, we're hip, We've got you know. And Flip Wilson was, you know, at that peak in a way, was about to be at the peak of his popularity, so they kind of they tried to appeal to everyone here. Yeah, I found this an interesting mix as well. I'm sure that the Smothers brothers were very funny, but I have yet to see funny Smothers brothers, Like they just always annoy me a little bit.

Like I think the best thing I see the Mothers brothers or I remember them before. Is the whole yo yo man character that they would do. But just like that bickering and all that kind of stuff. And I did appreciate that they were very anti war, that they were vocal about those things. And yeah, it is this weird mix of old and new.

I mean, I almost wish that they had one more of a newer comedian inside of here as well, like, of course probably not going to get like a George Carlin or somebody or Richard pryor, but somebody else of this kind of more. Yeah, Mother's Brothers were safe for television. Flip Wilson was very safe for television. I really enjoyed the Flip Wilson animated sequence. And I kind of wish I could see his entire album done this way.

I really, I man, I used to really dig on Flip Wilson. I had hit his records, I had you know, who would have been a good choice. And now it's going to sound horrible when I say up, but who would have been really good? Fucking Bill Cosby? He would have been great in this.

You're totally correct, And I of the sequences. I thought that Flip Wilson was the most successful, and it was also the first. He was very audience it's friendly. He was big among black audiences, he was big for white audiences. And in the same way that Bill Cosby wasn't even his style you can see is very like, you know, it's sort of it kind of bumps up against racial issues, but gently and in a kind funny way, not in a in a way that would have been interpreted by white audiences as accusatory or aggressive.

You know, there was a little bit, you know, because he's and it's very Bill Cosby. I'm telling a story about Columbus, you know, and and he starts telling this goofy story. But when Columbus discovers America, you know, well what if you know, hey, what if there's some people here don't want to be discovered? Right, I'm trying to do Flip Wilson doing Gerald Deane, which was his alter ego. This this female character he would do.

He would show up in a dress and a wig and it was a whole character. It was kind of like um Tyler Perry doing right Martin Lawrence with his female characters. I can't who what was the character from the Martin Lawrence Show. Is it like Lawanda or something like that? Oh wow, I don't know, Chris, you know, Chris is staring at us like we're incoherent old man in a barber shop.

I am just listening to the conversation because at the moment I it's again like the Flip Wilson thing, I think is the best thing in the entire thing. Like to your point, Mike, like, why not just give him fucking half an hour? Like I don't, yeah, Like what what what did they see outside? I mean? And again like the other thing, like, here's the thing.

All of the things that work here are them recreating something that already works. It's not like the Flip Wilson thing is you know original for this, I don't know. Most of the things aren't original. They're redoing something from somewhere else. So the Flip Wilson thing is just them pulling it off the record album and just redoing it.

So well there there, it's it's the animation and they're obviously and there's jokes within the animation about you know, the you know, the workers going on strike, and there's plenty of visual gags. It makes more sense than I thought it would. I was like, I don't know what this is going to be, and when it started, I'm like, oh, I don't think this is a great idea. But the once I got going, I was like, oh no, I kind of get this. And because his story, he's sort of narrating and and then we're seeing the visuals.

So it actually had an advantage I think, because it was asking the audience to imagine things, and then it was using that as a jumping off point for the animation rather than simply animating two comedians talking to each other, right, like the George Burdens and Jack bennything well and is a certain kind of comedian is what Flip Wilson is right, Like, there are certain comedians that tell stories and do these kind of like it's essentially like I don't know, like they're storytelling through through a device that's you know, placing themselves in the shoes of the character and narrating the story. Certain comedians do that, but best I could tell a lot of the comedians in this don't. And so I don't know, like they're trying to serve everybody.

I get it, but certain comedians types of humor don't work in this setting. I mean there's a reason they have Henny young men show up in dislike such minor parts, but they advertise that he's in it, and it's like him doing one liners. Like they don't have Dangerfield in this either, But that's because his comedy style would not work in this. I mean, he's a little more abrasive than I think they would have liked. But Don Rickles as well could have been here.

Again, that kind of comedy is not going to work in an animated setting unless you have fake hecklers, which I guess they could have done. They do have those static shots of the audience where there's like a weird looking Dean Martin and the Beatles, I mean they're they're strange looking. Yeah, and then that moment in the Flip Wilson thing where Popeye shows up in the audience. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah it was a sailor. They were talking about sailors, so we were and he was enjoying it.

He thought that was very funny stuff. But I would have preferred more of Flip Wilson's style of comedy, like like you said, Bill Cosby type thing where he's telling a story that can be animated, like my brother Russell stuff like that's I mean, that's a comedy gold mine. Right. Two years later, Fat Albert True, where it was Bill Cosby and his stories of his childhood were being animated. I mean, that's one way to look at what, you know, Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids was okay.

Oh, it totally was. Yeah, like that I knew about Russell and stuff from the albums before I knew it from the cartoon. Yeah. Um so so it was I don't know who got the idea from who, but that, you know, like we said, the Flip Wilson stuff worked. Plus, you know, I mean Flip Wilson was kind of great.

And he's not someone you hear about a lot any more, no, which is a shame. Yeah, you hear a lot about Bill Cosby and Richard Pryor and George Carlin and um and when that makes sense, it's like that's that's fine. But um but Flip Wilson was really funny and he was some of the families could watch, like my entire family would watch the Flip Wilson Show together and it wasn't like, well, maybe we should get the kids out of the room for certain things. It was like, no, this is and it was a very popular show, so so that that one worked really well. I've seen more of this Mother's Brothers, like their actual show, and I've liked them, but I never loved them.

Um I remember. Okay. So it was in the Year of Our Lord two thousand and six, Susan and I went to San Francisco for a weekend and we were walking around and we ducked into the Hyatt Regency to go grab a drink or you know, use the bathroom or something. We were at at the High Regency Hotel down at the Embarcadero, and we were looking for the bar, looking for something. Suddenly we were on that sort of mezzanine level where they have all the big conference rooms, and it was clear that there was a big conference going on some you know company was having a big thing, and what they were having was it was like the final night of the convention, and the Smothers brothers were performing at the like you know, National Association of Orthopedic Surgeons, and it blew my mind because I'm like, it's two thousand and six.

In nineteen sixty six, they were also performing in San Francisco, you know, as anti war pro hippie anti establishment, you know, on the cusp of becoming famous TV stars. And I'm like, wow, I wonder if they ever could have imagined that forty years later they were going to be right back in San Francisco playing, you know, the National Association of Orthopedic Surgeons. So I mentioned this to some one and they're like, Oh, those guys make bank because all these giant associations are always having these retreats and these conferences, and they have a budget of like one hundred hundred fifty thousand dollars to just throw at entertainment giant associations and corporations and stuff. And it's like those guys are making more money than they've ever made in their lives doing these things.

And I was like, you know what, then, God bless them. Yeah, they're touring this year. Guys, they're like in their mid eighties. Are they really? Yes, they really are.

You're looking at what's the schedule? What does it say? Ah? I don't know the schedule. I just know that they announced that they were touring.

Wow, which is crazy fucking wild, Like good for them, like, good for them, good that they're still doing it. Great. Yeah, Hey, I think all these guys do it. I think I think you know, frigging uh, you know, Jay Leno and Seinfeld and all those guys. It's like, you're gonna you're gonna pay me, you know, eighty one hundred grand the show up in Cleveland and talked to you know, four hundred dentists done.

Why wouldn't I? Well? And I also don't know if if after maybe five years from now, if the Smothers Brothers, if they can tour, if people would show up, like at some point that though, there will not be a name notoriety for the Smothers Brothers either. It's the difference between touring and doing the conference circuit, you know, because one you don't need people. It's like they're already there.

They're all there, they're all eating you know, the you know, the chicken and the steamed vegetables, you know, and it's like, hey, guess what, folks now, a comedian from forty years ago, who you probably remember, gonna be a generous audience. They're all gonna be drunk, all going to be in a good mood, and no one's ever gonna judge you. You're gonna do that show. No one on earth is going to know you did that show. You could be doing those shows to you know, get ready for your next big actual concert tour or appearance on the Tonight Show or whatever is the thing.

What a great thing for comedians to be able to do. But anyway, Smothers Brothers were here. They were hugely popular at this moment and um, and so that was the concession to modern guys. Then there was still the respect and the love for the Jack Benny and the George Burns and even the Marx brothers who show up doing literally a routine that they were doing in vaudeville, you know, in like fucking nineteen eighteen. And see your question from before.

The Smothers Brothers end their tour next week in Florida. Wow, okay, sir, that's fucking and they had like seven touring dates too, from east to west coast. So good for them, frankly, yeah, good for them. But yeah, it does feel like the concession to the cool kids because it's left at the end, you know, like they're they're building up to they keep building up to it throughout the thing. Like the Smothers Brothers they're coming like they open and close with the Smothers brothers, The Smothers brothers are there at the beginning and they do that quick little thing where Tommy gets eaten by the monster.

The audio was cutting out on mine. It was cutting out on one version, and then I watched I watched it that my plexin was fine. I watched it on YouTube. That was fine. Okay, yeah, it was weird.

There is a version on YouTube. You can find it. I mean, that's the thing about this. At least this is easy to find, Like some of the things we've done for this show. I mean, you you mentioned the whole like, oh, it's a long standing joke, and we covered the animated stuff, but like this is not something that anybody would know as ranking and bass period, Like no, you know, I mean, Richard always jokes about you know, well, you know, we keep doing the show and it seems like we're dragging things up from the deep, and in a lot of ways we are, because like this never went anywhere, but I could see why they wanted it too.

I guess, like I just don't I don't know what that would have looked like with thirteen episodes of this have just been thirteen of vs. Like yeah, like I think they probably would have just started mining more comedians and stuff. And you know, the one comedian that I thought while we're talking was Bob Newhart. I think he would have been a really good one for this. That's brilliant.

You're absolutely right. Had this been pre nineteen sixty three, I think Von Meterer would have been a really good one. And of course they're not going to get Lenny Bruce unless it's early Lenny Bruce. But well, I no George Carlin either of No George Carlin, no Red Fox. Right, Yeah, the people that I wanted to see are not here because you can't say the N word or the F word on ABC.

But you know, I bet there was enough. I bet there was enough Red Fox material outstat But you know, that could be adapted. But I think you're right. I think it could have been current people and then an endless pool of three stooges Abbott and Costello, Laurel and Hardy, Yeah, Martin and Lewis, Hope and Crosby. Just I mean all those guys who were still you know, I mean they were still showing up on variety shows and things.

They were still popular. You could still have Jack Benny and people loved it. And he was great, And I do want to mention Phyllis Diller is here, but the biggest affront feels like having Phillis Diller and using her for nothing. Don't mention Phillis Diller and then just be like, oh, like, we'll cut to the animated caricature a couple times, which, by the way, Phillis Diller is not an ugly woman, but that caricature makes her look like a literal fucking monster. I don't understand.

She's the only one who looks terrible out of all of them. And she's the only female comedian because apparently there was only one funny person who was female in nineteen seventy. But fine, but they don't give her anything to do anything. They don't give her anything to do either. Well, they weren't going to get Rusty Warren on there, I'll tell you that.

So Phillis Diller was still considered. Well, she had a look. I mean, she did a semi outrageous look. It's not like she was walking on stage trying to be beautiful. So the fact that she was exaggerated in animation actually makes perfect sense to him.

Yeah, okay, so that so that's a thing then okay, yeah, that's a thing. That's the thing. Okay, they weren't they weren't nagging part and well, don't forget they ended up using her as a monster. I mean, it's interesting all the ties between this and all the other Rank and Bass stuff. I'm kind of glad that we had been saving this towards towards the end of this because of you know, I'm surprised that some of the other comedians that they dealt with in other specials weren't in this, like uh oh god, well I can't I remember the guy with the big nose, Jimmy Duranty.

I'm surprised that Jimmy Duranty wasn't in this. But yeah, we had her show up in Mad Monster Party and talk about fang and stuff, and then it's funny that, what was it three years after this, you've got Mad Mad Mad Monsters, And we talked about that when we talked about Mad Monster Party. I think this is much more successful than Mad Mad, Mad Monsters. This definitely had legs my I don't want to say it was my problem. I think the one thing that this really whiffed on was the WC.

Fields bit. I think that was probably the weakest of the whole thing. And that's only And now this is no offense to Paul Freeze, because Paul Freeze, he pulls a lot of weight in this whole thing. He's doing a lot of voices, a lot of like sound effects. He's doing the sound of the Maxwell when it's the Benny and Burns stuff, which used to be my Blancs gig.

I was surprised they didn't get him back for that, but he probably was big bucks. And we know that Freeze and ranking a bass they worked together. Fun But the whole thing with Freeze doing his WC. Fields impersonation no problem. But Freeze is basically talking to himself doing a woman's voice, and that just sounded like Paul Freeze having a conversation with Paul Freeze.

And I was just like m and just that whole thing, that whole bit I don't think was nearly as funny as it could have been. Like, I know, Chrissy Shity haven't really seen any of any WC. Fields, but that guy could be fucking funny. Like the Bank Dick. That's the movie.

Like start with the Bank Dick and go from there. You can go back and watch WC. Fields right now and it is fucking hysteric. Oh god, yes, um, I'm glad you said that. I was gonna say only because I am personally such a Marx Brothers guy.

I was. I was a little kind of underwhelmed by the Marx Brothers. Oh yeah. The Chicko impersonation also wasn't good. It was more like, uh like Burger Meister, meister Burgers, just free I'm glad you said it because it was just Paul Freeze, Like it was just Paul Freeze doing that like villain.

Yes, that's the two parts of this that didn't work for me were the Groucho Marx and the W. C. Fields part And what's funny is like for me, they didn't work because it's clear that this was funny or elsewhere, and they just couldn't figure out how to make it funny here. Well, you know, there was a big tradition of animating uh comedians, I mean there there was there was like there were there's a cartoon about two cats that were clearly appen Costello. Oh yeah, yep, that was a Warner Brothers Yeah.

Yeah, the three Stooges had been animated there that showed up like them. Yeah. Yeah, the Beatles animated show. That was that was something. I mean, it was a big deal back then to just animate, you know, animate the Jackson Five, animate the Osmonds.

You know, let's animate everybody. And sometimes they do the voices and they do some songs and so it wasn't like it wasn't an outrageous idea. It's just now execution, and you know, which bits worked better than others, and they would show up on things like Scooby Doo. There were always like the guest voices on that, Like don Knots shows up on Scooby Doo. You know, yeah, an animated version of don Knots.

I oh, I guess I'm helping out the Scooby again, right, you know exactly he was perfected. Yeah, it was weird that the Harlem Globetrotters. Oh yeah. I So for me, this it's sad because this this special peaks at Flip Wilson and then goes downhill after that, because like I was very excited, so Chris the whole thing with Jack, Benny and George Burns as they are infamous skin flints and I was kind of unaware of them working together in stuff and so when I saw that they were going to be paired here, I was just like, Oh, this is gonna be great, because neither one of these guys likes to open up their wallet at all. But then I just thought that the bit that that the gag wasn't funny, this whole like back me up.

And then George starts singing, and I'm just like, are you going to say like you were backing him up vocally? Like it didn't make any sense to me, And I'm just like, that's the gag so funny because it's just the same bit over and over and over again. Well, it evoked the feeling I think Chris probably had watching this a lot, which is sort of like you're watching and you're kind of squinting, going, am I missing something that everybody else is in on? And they worked in radio, so you would think they would know what works for the audio medium, you know, Like that was the gag was the maxwell and just all those noises that mel Blanc wouldn't make for this poor vehicle because he was so cheap, he wouldn't get a new car.

Well, look, for all I know, one of the most famous Jack Benny, George Byrne's gags was back me up, and he would sing instead of physically back him. He's so like everyone, this is a running gag. This is something I completely missed. Well, I don't know. That's the thing.

It's like there's a cultural, you know, sort of knowledge at that time which really did exist because entertainment was not as diversified. It was not as diverse. So you had three networks. He had the big movie releases. Everyone knew everything.

Everyone knew who Grouto was, everybody he knew who WC. Fields was and ever and everyone knew who Flip Wilson was. You just knew. So so there they may have been playing to certain sort of like oh, that's their classic gag and I'm just not familiar with it or or an aspect of their personality. So I don't know them.

Yeah, but the Marx Brothers one seemed a little confusing and confused. It's like, well, it's Grouchow, but he's playing Napoleon. Like if you didn't know who those characters were, you I don't think this was a great introduction. Let me put it that way. It was not.

It really wasn't because I've never seen a Groucho marks anything. Yeah, you can. You can go back and you should watch their paramount films, primarily Host Feathers or Duck Soup, and you will. You'll have a great time, you know. And those movies are about sixty eight minutes long, so you're not going to waste all day.

I mean, Duck Soup is to me, that's hands down their classic. But there's the one where it's the Stolen Painting is the one for me that I really like an animal crackers, Oh my god, Oh my god, I love that. Yeah, Chris, you you will be a much happier person if you get some Marx brothers in your life, because they have just this amazing way well performing, but just this chemistry between the brothers and just this whole thing like because they never they don't really ever play brothers. They play if anything, they hate each other in these movies. And there's a lot of times where it's Broucho is like a political figure or something, and then you've got Chicko and Harpo as basically like two anarchists or source of anarchy just coming in and destroying whatever it is.

And that happens in multiple of these and you've got like Chicko is the fast talker, he has the accent, he doesn't understand things. I mean, the whole like cross examination of Chicko and Duck Soup is fucking fantastic Harpo, this amazing mime who's got this wonderful talent for the harp and then you've got Chicko who can play piano, and you've got Groucho that sings, and then you got fucking Zeppo who's like this great straight man who occasionally gets in these zingers, and all of it just works together so well. And they would workshop all of their acts like on in vaudeville, and so a lot of the movies are based on these acts that they would had done and trotted out, and just we're able to test it and get the timing so right that yeah, it's it's so good, I'll have to watch him.

Then, Yeah, that's a that's a pretty big blind spot. So I will say Richard does have Groucho Marx energy sometimes, so you know, yeah, Richard reaches back for his hat and cane to dance around with. There is black shoe polish to give himself a Groucho marks mustache. So I have a Groucho Mark's book in my bag as we speak. See, yeah, and you listen to uh do you listen to the Marx Brothers Council the podcast?

No, I do not. I do not. I probably should. Oh, it's really fun. It's really fun.

It's Matthew Conium and Noah Diamond and um and a couple other guys and they they've been in their Marx Brothers experts and they love them and they love joking around and they just talk about different aspects of the movie and of the various movies, and they have interviews and stuff. It's it's really fun anyway. Any rate, this was a great time for this revival of the Marx Brothers, or in especially Grouchow because you know, like I know he had done the Story of man Kind back in fifty seven, but around like sixty eight sixty nine there were Skidoo, that really awful auto premesier film that I love, and he what there was, I mean, he was doing stuff on Broadway. He was showing up a lot on the Cavit.

So this was this great time of this Groucher resurgence. And then I know, like so many of his uh, like the younger actors. It's like when you look at Groucher's funeral, it's just like freaking like Elliott Gould, like all these guys like Sally Kellerman, Budd Coort, It's all it's all those people. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was wild. It was wild.

But yeah, I wish that segment would have been better. Like I said this, it was kind of weak sauce towards the end with this, and I really wish that these older ones had had like a little bit more to it, because I know that they can do it, and I know that there are bits out there that really would work well if they spent the time and did the animation like they did that Flip Wilson one. It's almost like they took the Flip Wilson was like one group of animators and then they said, okay, and the rest of you guys you get this stuff. Because even the animation style and the Benny and burn stuff, it just wasn't as there as some of the other things, like the Copah looks really rough, you know, and like Burns and Benny they look pretty good, but it's very simplified animation.

It's it's very simple and it's it's strange because their whole routine was they were riding in a car, so it's not it's not outrageous, sort of like, oh my god, they're in outer space or something. Now you take the Marx Brothers, who were very visual, I mean even even their personas were visually arresting and very carefully designed, and then to animate them, it almost seems like you're you're actually taking a step backward. It's like, well, I'd rather just see the guys doing their visual gags. The animation isn't really adding anything, it's diminishing it a little bit. The same thing whenever I see the Three Stooges animated, I'm like, well, but I'd rather just watch their shorts where Curly is falling out a window and Mo, you know, is smashing someone in the head with a porcelain vase, and and and they're all you know, you know, in a car that's collapsing as they drive it.

It's like they were very visual to begin with. Animation doesn't take it to the next level. We're already doing cartoons, slapstick stuff like why yeah, yeah, I didn't. I I mean again, for me, as someone who has very little knowledge about the Marx brothers. It was confusing what was going on.

But also I felt the same thing. It's like, why what is the point of animating this? Like I was under the impression that this was slapstick, like that's live action cartoons. As it is, like yeah, but you know, you bring up a good point about Phyllis Diller. I've been just sort of ruminating on that.

It's like, there really weren't Like a little later, there was Joan Rivers, Minnie Pearl was in the mix. Not a ton of female stand ups. Now, you could have done Lucille ball, you could have done some animated I Love Lucy sort of thing, which could have been very funny if if you could get the licensing, that would have been great. Um, I don't know. I mean, I mean, in a weird way.

The possibilities are endless, especially then because there was a lot of new comedy and a lot of old comedy, and everyone was aware of all of it. So it would have been interesting if there had been thirteen more of these. I don't know, I would have been depending on who was being animated. I would have been curious to watch. Well, And what's interesting is it gets such high ratings that I don't know why it died on the vine the way that it did, because this wasn't a failure for Rank and a Bass by any stretch of the imagination.

So now, but it was a fake success because it was right before the Oscars. That's like putting on a show after the Super Bowl. It's like, yeah, it's going to have inflated ratings for that airing, but who knows after that. Yeah, I think that there are more female comedians that were just not remembering, Like I think, you know, I mentioned Rusty Warren earlier. There's like moms mable is happening?

Who I never really found that funny, Like Bill Barth was one of them. Even freaking Aline Boosler. Her career goes all the way back to like at least seventy seven, if not before. So I think there are probably more that we than we remember. And if anything, I almost said before, like you know, mark my words.

So there's gonna be a Flip Wilson biopic in the next five years, and there's going to be this big resurgence or something. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a documentary about female stand up comedians that's either out there that I don't know about or that is coming. Because it's one of those things where you know, like there was a great documentary on Philis Diller a few years ago, and I think that there needs to be more like appreciation of what was happening. I mean, missus Mazel, it's kind of a funny show. Sometimes not the best show in the world.

I enjoy it. I chuckle at it. I don't laugh out loud, but I'm kind of hoping, like, oh, you know, like once Miss Mazel's off the air after this season, Hey, let's take a look at other female stand up comedians and what they were doing. Listen. It's still tough.

It is. The world of stand up comedy even today is not welcoming to women. In fact, it's getting worse. Um. I know a friend of mine is young woman doing stand up before COVID even a little bit since, and it just gets worse and worse.

The comedy scene is famously misogynist, and that's I mean, that's like a little section within a larger entertainment landscape riddled with misogyny, and but especially stand up it's just like, I mean, you can say that about podcasting, though, right, Like, I feel like you can say that about the entertainment industry in general is not male centric, maybe not misogynistic, but like because there's an I mean, they always say, how many other white dudes need another podcast? Like that's a thing, Like that's true, that's a thing, like and it's and it's I think it's less the white part and more the dude part, like yeah, I'm with you. Like, look, I'm not even a I'll be perfectly honest here, I fucking don't like stand up comedy for the most part.

It's not whoa, It's not something it's that's not something that I am a huge fan of their comedians that I like that I will watch, but it is not something where I'm putting it on I'm going out of my way to watch it because it's I don't know, like for me, it's not something that animates me. I get why people like it. I've never been to a live comedy show. It's not something I have any interest in ever really going to. But I can't place my finger on why that's the issue.

So I don't know what the deal is. But it's never like I like certain people. Carlyn Bill Hicks certain people I like, but for the most part, I don't even care about stand up. So I'm a terrible I'm a terrible judge of a lot of this to begin with. So well, I would say the difference is like podcasting.

You do it, you put it out there. You know, you never see your audience. So in other words, it's very egalitarian. Anyone can do it. Any race and he sets any gender, any orientation.

You can do it and put your voice out there and hopefully find an audience. Stand up you have to be at a location in front of an audience, and and there's going to be you know, eight people going out on stage, and how many of your men and how many are women? And how's that one woman going to get treated? And who's going to follow her, and who's going to bring her out? And after the show, who's hanging out with her?

You know, I mean, it's like it's a boys club. It really is. It always has been, unfortunately, and and for a woman to survive that and really thrive just on that level takes I mean, look, doing that at all takes an extraordinary level of of sort of grit and intestinal fortitude. Now to do it as a woman you know, or a woman of color. Now you're really talking.

You know, you're not going to be club owners. Other comedians not going to be a lot of open arms for you. And then you go out on stage and people are like, well, who's this skepticism there too? It's tough, it's it's it's tough, but even tougher for them. So yeah, there's so much hate still thrown at different female comedians.

It's just crazy. And like sometimes it's you know, they might rub you the wrong way, like an Amy Schumer, Like sometimes I think she's hilarious, and other times I'm just like, yeah, no, that's not that funny. Like especially it's like, oh, you're saying dirty words. That's just not inherently funny. You need to actually like create a joke around there.

Oh so women can't just say dirty words that yeah, okay with wow? Yeah? Well and who is the other one? Chris Rock is just motherfucker this and motherfucker that. But I suppose that's okay with you, Mike White.

Do I think that Chris Rock is that funny? Sometimes? But I watched that later special I didn't laugh that much. I'm sorry. I what I like when it comes to stand up comedy, And I know I'm kind of switching subjects, but going to Chris's point, I enjoy the craft and watching the craft and seeing a set and hearing.

For me, it's the moments between the jokes are the most important moments. How you go from one joke to another, and how you build on a joke and just keep adding a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more, and then you let it die down and then you bring it back later on. I think right now, like what's that guy's name, John Mullaney was on John Mullaney. I think Mullaney does a really good job when it comes to crafting jokes and then call backs. I really love a good callback.

But ah, but for me, like you know, watching things like Last Comic Standing, which I think was unfairly canceled. The Exacts at NBC seemed to hate that show because they just did everything they could to kill it. But there were some great comedians that came out of that one. Alonzo Boden was amazing. Just so many good comedians that came out of that show, including Amy Schumer.

But to see them practicing and getting that, oh, I love good stand up that way. I do want to mention something you mentioned, Richard, that comedy is hard enough if you're a woman or woman of color. Anything doesn't help that. The stand up comedy world and the audience's for stand up comedy don't seem to give a shit about the people that do bad things either, like Louis c k who actively antagonized other female comedians. So yeah, like the whole boys club thing, it extends from the comedians to the audience's acceptance of it being a boys club, because, like Mike mentioned, and like you were riffing on, Richard, guys saying women aren't funny is fucking stupid.

Some of the funniest people I know are women. And I always mentioned that the women over Twisted and Uncorked are funnier than me, and it's true they are, and Richard, you can attest to that they're fucking hilarious, and it seems effortless. I'm not effortlessly funny. I don't feel like and I don't understand that sentiment, and it's here a little bit because they only have Phyllis Diller. But I also get why if I were a woman, I wouldn't want to go and put myself into the world of male comedians given that shit like what Louis c k was doing was essentially I'll give it a stamp and a pass because he's now selling out stay ms again and nobody cares that he was just whipping his dick out and jerking off in front of women, which, by the way, any of us did that and have fun ever doing anything ever again anywhere with anyone in any fucking capacity.

But if you're if you're Louis, y kay, it doesn't matter, Like fucking bullshit, Come on, well, all all of these subsets of the entertainment industry have their own culture and kind of their own mood or whatever. I mean. You know, stand up comedians are very you know, they're kind of solitary animals, and it's fun to hear, like when they talk about, oh yeah, back in the day when we would do sets at the comedy store, like you know, Jay Leno and David Letterman and Robin Williams and Billy Crystal and Gilbert Godfrey and you know a million others, and they talk about how great everyone was. But I can't help but think that at the time there was a lot more touchiness, you know about who had a good set tonight, who didn't, who got on the Tonight Show before, or I got on the Tonight Show.

You know, people were fucking pissed when people like Freddie Prinz, who's nineteen and suddenly he's on the Tonight Show and then gets his own series. There were people who were like, I'm going to literally jump off a building, and one of them did because my career isn't going as fast as that guy's and and so so it's competitive in this very unique way that is that like the rest of American society is going to be suspicious of the outsider. And most most industries are dominated by white men. So anyone who's not a white man or a you know, a white Christian man is going to be seen with a certain level of suspicion and skepticism and what are you trying to do joining my club? You know.

What's interesting is reading about the music industry and women's experience there and sort of as musicians, women often say, I was welcomed, you know, to jam with all these guys. You know, if you're if you're a you know, go for it, you know, And I received more respect than I expected when we were playing music. Now, outside of that, all bets were off, so it's like, oh, okay, but anyway, we're going far afield of the mad, mad mad comedians. Yeah. Oh, by the way, I just remember it, and I don't know how I've forgot Lily Tomlin.

I mean, what the hell, man, I grew up on Lily Tomlin stuff. And then I speaking of nine to five, Yeah exactly, Yeah, Wellly Tomlin just made a movie I just talked about on the Culture Cast with Richard's wife Aidy for Brady. It was fucking hilarious. By the way, people who say women aren't funny because it's still a thing like fuck you, just fuck you, Like I'm fucking serious with this shit, Like it's I'm so sick of it. I'm so sick of it.

And for the longest time, a lot of us sat by and didn't say shit about it and just listen to people pontificate their bullshit. And that's why we're here now. We're like, you have to be as like angry about it is. I feel like I have to be angry about it otherwise people don't take me serious, like I think it's horse shit, Like women are fucking hilarious, and I think white men like myself should get out of the wigs. You get out of the way, like I don't know, And for me, like honestly, sketch comedy is more my jam now and he's like Tim Robinson stuff on Netflix, Jordan Peel and Keegan, Michael Key on Key and Peel, like Mad TV.

All that stuff always resonated with me more. Even SNL always resonated with me more than stand up did, other than like the specific people. So maybe that's what this would have been if this had continued, was more of like a sketch comedy show utilizing these comedians, which I think could have been its own weird fun thing. This, of all the things we've talked about, feels like the biggest missed opportunity for Rankin and Bass, like a genuine missed opportunity. Yeah, they could have done more, Oh yeah, should I totally agree?

Well, And it's funny because this is the same year that Santa Claus Is Coming to Town comes out. This comes out in April, Santa Claus Is Coming to Town comes out a few months later. I'm not sure if that was Thanksgiving or right at Christmas. But it's like, wow, this is this is a banner year for ranking a bass. Yeah, this was this was the height and I I I, yeah, I enjoyed.

I enjoyed this a lot more than I thought I would, that's for sure. But I do wish that there had been more variety, I guess. I mean again, like the things that they advertise, like Henny Youngman and Phyllis Diller, like they're just not there enough. And those were the people I was actually excited to see. I was excited to see what they would do with Henny Youngman.

Nothing absolutely nothing again, and I wonder like his like borsched belt routine just doesn't work very well in an animated format. It's one liners like you can see honey, Youngman's entire act and good fellows in that one scene you could see his whole act Take my wife please, Like that's his whole act. Guy is like, oh, come on, is okay now suddenly I'm defending Heny yet Oh Chris, you've pushed me far. I pushed it, but you know, his whole act. But you know what I mean, like his his act, Like but what you said, you boiled it down to that one thing that the audience is going to know which is the take my wife please and do.

Yeah, he didn't do movies, right, you know, there he was, he stood there, he told jokes, he walked off stage, right, and how does that translate in a format like this, Not very well. So they just don't represent him essentially at all. And it's kind of unfair. Well, that's the thing is because he would tell stories, but the stories would take thirty seconds, right. Oh, and then he would just do like I was talking to the add on joke, you know, like the whole thing, like you know what said the doctor and gave me six foot weeks to live.

You know, I couldn't pay the bill, so he gave me another six weeks and then he just like, we'll add on to that joke after after after, and just keep doing that. So yeah, but I totally agree with you. Not the best for a visual mean, other than him just standing there with his violet, it's like, okay, right, and like those are like those those if this show had continued, could have served as like the interstitials in like Twilight Zone eighty five or Night Gallery, where it's like a quick little ten to fifteen second thing to get you onto the next thing. That's what that would have been if this had continued. But oh man, yeah, And I will say those Henny Youngman and Philistiller ones, those were the ones that I laughed at the most because they just they hit you right between the eyes, you know, Like Philistiller just pops up talks about how how fat Fang's mother is and that the user to clean out the Lincoln Tunnel.

It's like, wow, that's great, you know. I laughed at that, and we move on right to a Henny Youngman joke and then boom, we're out. We get that crazy, mad, mad mad comedian song again and that psychedelic animation that they're doing with that like long legged character. Kenna reminded me of that the Crooked man from the one special that we talked about, the Mother Goose special that we discussed, and I was like, Okay, this guy might show up in my nightmares. He's just a silhouette in this.

Is it also surprising that there weren't any international comedians in this as well. It's all American comedians, right, Like, wait, one's ever done outside of the United States. What are we going to bring in content? Floss? Yeah, Wow, guys, sorry, I forgot never mind, don't go fuck myself in leading, would you please?

It was nineteen seventy. Nobody wants your foeign have a Japanese comedian subtitle The oh Wow, yeah yeah, I know? Boy? Were you upset? Jack Sue wasn't featured.

God, here I was complaining about women being represented. Jesus Christ, fucking the wrong tree. I barked up one tree, and I've barked up the entirely wrong tree. Now, yeah, what do you want Bill Dana doing Jose and men? Is you racist?

Oh man, Jesus Christ. I just wanted the cast of the Tiki Room to show up and do all of their hilariously outdated accents that we all forget about. Hey, guys, splash mountains. The real problem though, when we've got people doing fake Hispanic accents as words. Though, don't forget.

God, I'm growing more because I'm remembering. I was talking about how much I love that stand up show and this guy who is the worst. He was a Vietnamese comedian that fan. He was the worst, and for whatever reason, he won his season. And I still don't understand.

Oh hey, not for everybody, right, Like there was the Chinese comedian named Johnny Yun who was popular in the seventies. Yeah, didn't he do the My name is Bruce and they or they called me Bruce, and they stay called me Bruce. Yeah. I really liked him. He was great.

And then and then, don't ever forget the Russian comedian Yakov Smirnov. How could I forget? In my country, comedy tells you. Yeah, no, no, the best one was the best one was m America. What a country?

And in America you have saying in America you I was saying, um, women that are like bosses. Another one comes by every five minutes. In my country, we have similar saying women are like busses, ladies and gentlemen. You can find Yakov Smirnov in the Branson, Missouri circuit down down Dolly Parton Way. That's real.

That's where I when I used to go to school at the University of Missouri, I would drive on the highway and see billboards Yakov Smirnov live in Branson. Check him out? Yeah what that con three? Yeah, Hey, everybody's got a shingle to put out somewhere big. Yeah.

I actually kind of like Yakov Smirnov and there's that actor that shows up. He's Peter Parker's landlord and the uh the brainy um Spider Man movies. And at first I thought that was Jlia Baskin Baby thought it was yeah at first, Richard, do you remember the Flying Karramatzov Brothers, the group of jugglers that used to do stuff? Oh yeah, they were they had they had a live act and then they would um uh. But they were always like on the Mike Douglas Show, credible real people.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm so glad, Mike, I feel I feel seen. I'm so glad. You know you and I are you know, have that that same weird memory of all that kind of nineteen seventies entertainment. Oh yeah, yeah, Well I was just we did an episode recently about the Star Wars Holiday Special.

There's a new documentary about it, and just to talk to somebody who wasn't aware of variety shows in the nineteen seventies, and just like you take someone who's never seen a variety show, you show them the Star Wars Holiday Special. They think it's the worst thing ever made. You show them other variety shows and suddenly that holiday special ain't looking so bad. I think the Holiday Special is fine. It does exactly what it sets out to do.

I'm not complaining about it. Whipster, Whipster just saying, just saying, Harvey Corman's there, and he doesn't give up. Book. No, there were so many variety shows. Everybody in that Captain into Neil Sonny and Share Shields and Yarnell Shields and Yarnell, I mean minds getting variety shows.

Richard Pryor had a primetime NBC variety show where he would come out and he would do comedy and he was TV safe. Yeah, Banks, Lady and Jeff I think that was among the final ones. Yes, yeah. And the one that really ran the longest and ended almost last was the Carol Barnett Show. Yeah.

Yeah, though hers it didn't feel as much of a variety show as other ones. It felt more like sketch comedy show with some variety stuff and interspersed. You know. It was kind of really more of a precursor like Saturday Night Live. I would say, but these, I mean, God bless him, Harvey Corman, you know, being forced to crack up by Tim Conway.

He still had a shit together way more and that fucker Jimmy Fallon and his unprofessional behavior on SNL. I mean, earn your lines and don't crack up. Sorry, yeah, I'm with you. I'm going to fall I hate these new SNL comedians too, where they always are looking at Q cards and I'm just like, I know, you put together this whole show in a week. Why was it the people who are fucking poked up to the gills could remember their lines and you can't anyway, Mad mad comedians, folks, Mike's mad.

Well, thank you everybody for listening. I want to thank Abby Stabby for our artwork, as well as the Great Octopus for our theme music. Until we go, Chris, where are you working at these days? And what are you working on? Weirdingwaymedia dot com is where I'm working and tworking on all the things that I work on, including this show, culture Cast, and a whole host of other fun little audio ditties that you can find over at weird ingwaymedia dot com.

What about you, Richard HadAM Well, I am on DC Titans, which is going to premiere the final six episodes. We now have a date April thirteenth. Okay, so April thirteenth, we come back on the air. And for six weeks we will air the final six episodes of the series, so you've got plenty of time to watch seasons one, two, and three in the first half of four. I just saw the trailer for the second half of season four.

It's amazing. Even I'm like, WHOA, our show looks good. So anyway, check out DC Titans on HBO. Max, well you, Mike, Well me. I'm always working at the weird Way Media as well, especially on my show The Projection Booth, which is available at Projection Booth podcast dot com or weird Ingwaymedia dot com, where you can find all kinds of shows that Chris and I and Richard work on and Richard's wife, so big shout out to Susan Haddam.

Yeah, she's carrying the way that apparently the rest of us aren't. Yeah what was that? Just got fifty thousand downloads something like that? WHOA, Sure, we're fifty thousand, but where we're clawing we business here? Yeah, I'm talking about the three of us.

Oh yeah, you know, I think we're closing in on three hundred downloads with this shows. Yeah, yeah, fifteen actually, yeah, we're at speaking of Be sure to subscribe to us on your favorite pet podcast platform, and uh yeah, we'll be back next month with the show where we look at the Wind in the Willows the Ranking and Bass version, and we might look at the Reluctant Dragon and mister Toad show. I'm not sure if that mister Toad is also from Winding the Willows, so I'm gonna have to do a little investigation. And that's another thing that Ranking and Bass worked on. Until then, be sure to rate and review the podcast wherever you get it, Tell your friends, tell your family, and please stay weird.