195. The Town That Dreaded Cherry Falls

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She's my tex can A baby. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Feminine Critique. I'm Amily and I'm Christine, and we are gathered here today to talk about two movies that are so vaguely sort of could be in a double will right, sure they were linked in ways. Yeah, I'm going to start by saying, I'm really mad at myself because while I was I'm somebody that I get, like all of my good ideas come either in the shower or if I'm like doing some kind of physical activity. And I was swimming and like when I swim, like I can't you know, there's no music, there's no so you really are just like thinking in your head constantly, and suddenly out of nowhere it hit me of like, oh my god, there would have been And I'm glad we watched both of these movies, and we'll talk about how they go every which way.

But I did figure out a movie that would have been like a clever companion to one of them. Oh, so the movies were doing. Why don't we start there, because I don't think we actually said what those were, although if somebody looked at them thing they would know. But no, I don't think we said it because I don't think we knew the last time. We didn't.

We just kind of talked through it right after. Yeah, so yeah, we're gonna talk about and I don't know which order, but Town That Dreaded Sun Down, the original seventy six and Cherry Falls, which I think was ninety nine. It was made, it was supposed to be aired in ninety nine. It did, I think, debut in nineteen ninety nine in Europe. Oh, because a little thing happened in the United States in nineteen ninety nine that kind of pushed a lot of teen horror movies back a year or so.

Well, it's interesting because this is, you know, the similar thing that happened with teaching Missus Tangle, which is something that I constantly feel like I'm talking about because I'm so fascinated by like it, but I didn't realize that about this. Yeah, cherry falls as a release was a I was about to say, like a phrase that I realized would be very impoor taste suffered as a release because of Kalumid. Well, yeah, I mean with distance, maybe we drill these things down to events that didn't have lives attached to them. So that's fine. I don't think there's anything weird about that.

Praising no, I get, but I completely understand what you're saying, because like now we have these this like small small pool of movies we're finding out that were really impacted by Columbine, and then you flash forward a few years and then we see the same thing post nine to eleven. Like of just every like the media landscape needs to pivot to shift away from things that are now suddenly I guess hot button issues, or. I mean, imagine a world where Down the Killer Elevator movie did not have to get pushed back because of nine to eleven, cinema would have been different. It's but it's true. It really did, like it changed certain things, and Columbine had a a I guess, a less of a ripple effect.

Unfortunately, because look where we are now, but like it, and it really only affected like kind of teen cinema, which is so strange, like a subgenre that people already didn't really take seriously. So in hindsight, it's it's kind of strange. What a what a what an impact? But yeah, it was just such an easy target of we have to do something. Let's uh, let's not release or let's not support the release of movies where teenagers die, because clearly that's something we do.

That's the reason. Yeah, that's the reason. Is the these and and the thing is with both like also, I mean it was killing missus tangle, so it's like right there, I get what maybe that's but like the things that they were worried about really shows like the lack of understanding about what would drive then and continue to drive these types of tragedies. Like so so like. Oh no, not Cherry Falls, not not kind kind of confusing Britney Murphy movie.

But I get why why it was just so misguided you know, yeah, yeah it didn't. It didn't protect anybody, no by no means. By no means did it. Yeah. The so the reason so you had picked kind of I had mentioned that you were going to watch Town that Dreaded Sundown because you had never seen it, and so we kind of said, Okay, what's something that could pair with it.

You were saying, you're doing like a slasher summer, Is that right? Yep? Okay. So that's why I'm like, okay, because what I was trying first to do was think of movies because it had been a long time since I'd seen Town that Dreaded Sundown, so I couldn't remember a lot of it. But my like the thing that stuck out to me was remembering like the exact setting of it, and there just aren't that many movies in that particular part of the country.

But the other thing that my memory served of like, oh, it's so much about the town, right, I knew so much about how this these crimes affect the daily life and the paranoia and just like shifting your comfort in what's supposed to be you know, every day Americana small town. And that's where I kind of like landed on Cherry Falls. Just I forget why it was in my head, but it was like, oh that's and again, my memory of Cherry Falls goes back twenty years because I have not seen this movie since it came out on video, even it might not have even been a DVD. I remember putting something in a machine to watch this, and I have a feeling it may have been like a blockbuster VHS back in that time. And so my memory of Terry Falls, I remember, like, obviously the there's a lot of things to remember about this movie, but in my head, it was very much about like a town kind of you know, on edge because of this, and I will tell you the movie that I realized in hindsight, I could have paired Town that Dread and Sun down with because I was like making a list of things in the movie that stuck out, and I'm like, okay, tex sarcana, okay, burlap sack Okay, No, it's actually a pillowcase.

Okay. Paranoia trombone, and there's a movie that combines paranoia with trombone. Do you know what movie I'm thinking of. It's not a horror movie, but I would say it's a genre movie. No, we could have done and perhaps we'll do it one day in the future.

Miracle Mile. Oh, it's been such a long time. Yeah. And the main thing to remember for that movie is that Anthony Edwards is a Trump post. Yeah I did.

I actually did forget that, yeap. It like hit me. I'm like swimming and I almost like lose, like swallow a bunch of water. So yes, I was mad on myself. But I am not angry that I rewatched Cherry Falls after twenty years, just because it is such a particular portrait of a time, of a place, of a of a land that somebody apparently went to and on the dreaded undown, which it's you know, it's fascinating to me because you had seen the twenty fourteen revival sequel, meta sequel, whatever you want to call it, but you had not seen the original.

Is that right, correct? Okay? I so I have a strange relationship with the with the sequel. I think I've seen it three times, and the first two times Zach and I were like fist pumping and high fiven and like whoa. And then the last time we watched it, I feel like we were both like wait what No.

So I'm not quite sure how I feel about it at this point. Okay, but. I would say I haven't watched it in a minute. Watch it, I guess, and then you tell me if it's any good. But it definitely has.

I think we kept saying, oh my god, it's just like a really long episode of American horror story. But I think we kept saying it in like a negative way, and I don't know why that wouldn't have bothered me before, but then suddenly started to. So I'm not quite sure what journey I'm on with that. Okay, so let's start with Town, the Dread and Sundown. What do Yeah, obviously we're gonna spoil stuff, although again, this movie is older than a lot of things, and you tell us a lot older than us.

That's right, we're young. And also this movie kind of doesn't in a way isn't overly spoilable because it's not. There is no big reveal. The big reveal is that there is no reveal. We we don't know.

And this movie, which is I guess a fairly early true crime horror adaptation, follows many of the beats of the cases, not all of them, but is very much adapting. This is true in a lot of ways, to some of the facts of these cases, to the kind of the general thing of In nineteen forty six, I think several pairs of young people were found either dead or attacked in different ways, seemingly by the same person unclear, could have maybe not been, and there were suspects. There was a lot of theories that the person was caught and that they were in jail serving another as sentence or something else, and that it could never be connected to them, but that enough people had enough bits of evidence that said this was probably the guy doing it.

But in real life they never found out, and in the movie also ends with us never finding out but kind of being led to see that, oh no, that person's out there. He's still out there and free. I had seen this movie probably about fifteen nish years ago. Plus. It was one of those titles.

It's such a great title that like, oh, for sure the title of this movie. My god. I don't think the movie lives up to the title, but it's I think there this is such an uneven film. But and I think there are aspects of this movie that are that are great and there's a lot that is not. I'd watched it.

I still have the DVD I watched it on, which is good because otherwise I would have had a hard time finding it. The DVD I have is like one of those gray market companies that was putting out releases that you could get, so it has no special teachers whatsoever. It's just that I think this did eventually get a big release by like Shout Factory or somebody like that. It's beautiful. Oh, I bet it looks stunning.

I also think I saw that it was on to B. I could be wrong, but I don't. I can't speak to how that looks if. I yeah, it looks like it's like free on two b ooh leaving in sixteen days, but also it's on Canopy and Roku channel, and I think the Canopy one looks good. Well, I will, so I found out my issue with Canopy.

If you remember this saga last month of me wondering why I could watch it. My library system, unfortunately, has cut down tickets to five a month, which is enough maybe for at most two movies if you find one that is two and three two and three tickets, but most movies are four tickets. So it's a strange amount. It's a it's an addu amount. It's not even like a six would have been fine, right because six is an easy of summer three, so I can do three and three summer four.

So I could do four and two, but it's five, so it is near impossible. We did manage to watch The Apartment finally after six months of trying last night, but now we have one Canopy ticket left, so we will not be watching anything I Canopy for the next two and a half weeks. So then I knew I didn't was not gonna have a chance this on Canopy. My DVD looks like crap. It's it's very very fuzzy.

This is a movie that I'm sure does benefit from a restoration, but also it kind of it's I feel like it's also meant to be kind of grainy and messy because it's a very cheaply made movie that has that that like sloppiness about it is kind of I think part of its charm. Well, I will say for me, I did not find much here to like at all. Real found it extremely laborious and boring. Fair So the way that it was filmed was actually like one of the things that was getting me through. It was like it was like a pristine like upgrade I upscale whatever, I don't know it was.

It was stunning, like it looked like like unclowckable when what era it was from but like in a good way because it was still clearly on film and the color was still very lush and good, and it had like you speak of this like grindhouse e quality to it, still like this washed out kind of quality, but it was very like cinematic and sweeping looking, which really kept me, like kept me in there because it doesn't. Have much going for it doesn't know, Yeah, you're not wrong, but but I mean I like it, and you're not wrong. The true crime thing fascinating right the whole like it doesn't really end fucking weirdosh. I think that is great. I think that is one of the I think there are probably two things about this movie that well maybe three, three things about this movie that you make it memorable, that made it kind of still have a legacy compared to maybe other movies of its quality of the earth.

One is the title, that is a fucking great title, And two is the mask, which, again, a mask is always going to vary in terms of whether you find it creepy or not. I'm sure some people look at a pillowcase over a face and think it's what is it's pill a case of a room, But I find it creepy. No, it's really really unsettling. It is. You're completely right though, because it's so mundane and domestic that it could be anyone menacing as ship.

Yeah. And then couple that imagery like with the specifically the poster, Yes, pretty evocative. Poster art by Ralph McCrary. Yeah, I saw that when I was going through Wikipedia. Yeah, like the the king of poster art of movies like Close Encounter, Star Wars.

It's that guy. He also did this one. And like one of his early like Unknown and it's and it's just it's so beautiful, like not even if I was like, oh, there's nothing here for me, I would still own that poster because it's art. Yeah. Yeah, And I think the ending, I think the fact that it does end on this note of just he's out there this this guy didn't go away.

He's just maybe at any given point he can come back and he can do this again. It that adds. I did find the pacing really unbalanced because not just because of that, but at one point, like we were watching it and I was like, how much I really need to get more water? How much is left in this movie? Because I couldn't tell because it doesn't have an ending.

So Zach was like, hold on, and he pauses it. It was eight minutes, and I was like, what the. Time if they're eight. Minutes left in this But because it's just like there's like a little railway shootout and then it's like end, which I simultaneously found off putting but kind of liked. I was like, oh, okay, because we don't do that in movies.

Now. You have to have your three acts and your clear beats and it ends. And if it doesn't end the way people like, people will say it's the worst movie ever made. And so we have this like really settled structure and this said, nope, exactly. Well, apparently the ending was not done.

I think when they started filming, like I don't think they knew what they were how they were gonna end it, which kind of makes sense because it doesn't end, and I wonder I don't know exactly like whose decision it was to end on that note of just like never Caught. Who knows there's a movie they made a movie about it. Then we see the feet and this something that I think is fascinating is that this movie is like beloved in Texarcana. Yeah, I thought so, Like I did a little reading this time. I know, I was trying to be professional and well because it is interesting, right, because it's like heavily based on something real.

But back when a time, like you said, like when we didn't really do that. So like people were not happy about this movie, right they were, I guess. About thirty years after now thirty yeah, about thirty years after the events. They were very unhappy about it at first. Now I think it's very fun that they wear it as a badge of honor and like show it in ten the.

Library to screenings of it every summer. I but like when it came out, people were like that was my family. These are these were people like what the fuck are you doing? And I do appreciate that energy because shit like that still happens. Yeah, And that's always been my issue with true is that like it is somebody's brother, sister, father, or mother, like this is you are spinning a story for entertainment, for whether it's to play drama or to play it as we're gonna scare you with this thing that actually happened to my sister, right, whoever it might be, And it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I always find it very uncomfortable in this case, like they did. They did change the names, which is good, and they take a lot of liberty with the details of each of the victims I guess, which then apparently, like one of the big lawsuits in this movie was the brother of one of the women who I think did not survive. And you said, well, you know, the movie makes her out to be, like, you know, a high school dropout, and she wasn't, and like it's yeah, but it's also not her name. It's just a victim number two, And like, I don't know, it just gets morally very fuzzy and gray. And it's one of those things where I think, like, in a perfect world, this never happens to you, so you never have to think of it from that side of things.

But I just always think when it comes to your crime stuff of like, but somebody is watching the worst thing that happened to them or their family being played for thrills for an audience that has no idea this was their family, and that always just makes me uncomfortable. But well, no, no, you're with good reason, right, because you're not wrong. They change stuff, right, So one of the big things you said it kind of earlier, the trombone thing, like one of the most epic murder scenes of all time on some lists, and they do it. I don't know if it's exactly the same in the remake, but they do it in the remake. In real life, I guess that woman played like the sax saxophone.

Yeah, but like still imagine if that was like your sister and you're like, well, I don't it's literally the girl that played the instrument. I don't care what instrument it is, so like to it is always something I guess we have to we should be aware of that these are real things that happened. Now it's seventy six. Now we're in twenty twenty six, Like when is there ever like when does it ever run out? This is now an eighty year old case.

I don't know of the day. Yeah, I think the damage is done in I think acknowledging that there were real people at this point is like the most important part, like when we talk about of any upsetting tragedies, like, yeah, these were real people and this shouldn't have happened. So but also it's a weird fucking movie they made out of it, and that in and of itself is worth talking about. Well, And I guess here's a question, because I think the most glaring aspect of watching it this time, which I knew, I remembered. Okay, it's gonna be down and dirty, it's gonna be very low budget.

There's a lot of like just awkwardness. There's a lot of some of the acting is very very rough. Yeah, but I think the thing that I had completely forgotten about, completely gone from my brain was spark Plug. Oh, was that this movie does a Last House on the Left, but they that seat makes that part of Last House and the Left look like Charlie Chaplin. Yeah.

So, like I obviously, again there's so many reasons to find this fascinating, but I don't know if fascinating necessarily equals good to me, And I think that's probably what I'm struggling with. So there was obviously so much Texas Chainsaw in this, or they wished they. I mean, it's two years after Texas Chainsaw, and it is so strange to compare the two. It feels like there's so much of like not literally just like the spirit of that like kind of like that blown out murderer on the loose, nowhere safe, like small town, and then like it's and then you have like you said that, like craveny, like Last House on the Left, feeling of these like fucking moron cops, this hapless police force. Everyone looks stupid, And I agree that it makes the movie feel really uneven because, like, coupled with that absolute buffoonery is some of like the most upsetting stuff I've ever seen in the movie, like the he like he said, he literally said, they that the guy chewed their flesh, and like that that that lady had bite marks all over her, and and you're right about that pillowcase hood.

But then you have these cops flopping around. But like to your point, in Last House on the Left, it was like these brief little snippets, it's like half this movie. Yeah, well, do you know who played spark Plug? I saw. I don't know that I knew or cared, but it's somebody recognizable, right, I mean it's the director?

Oh? Is it? Yes? Oh? If I have this correct, because I nobody looks the same in any of their pictures.

If I'm reading like the Wikipedia cast, Charles B. Pierce's patrolman Acy Benson, who's not credited as spark Plug, but that's what they kind of call him in the movie. Most Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's him. And it's one of those things you were watching You're like, was it a runtime thing? Did you think you weren't gonna make your ninety minute?

Got off mark and he needed to add some things, so you said, it's fine, I'll just I'll do I'll do some vamping here because it's so bad. Those scenes are not funny. There's like maybe the one, like the first one where it's like getting in the car and like, oh, forgot the keys. Like there's something about that one that I'm like, Okay, I'm like, I'm willing to go along with you on this one because it's like the idea being we've brought into Big Guns, we brought in jots in, like he's gonna solve the case, and it's this idea of like, oh and you know you're you're his assistant and of course, oh no. The very first impression is so stupid, but then it keeps going and it goes on and then we learned that this guy is just like an idiot savant who can't do anything m hm, and we get a lot of him in this movie.

We get more of him than we get of of Dawn fucking wells Mary herself, I know. Again, one of the more, if not most upsetting things in this movie. She like, hey spoilers, she watches her her husband gets shot and she has to walk into the fucking room with her husband shot on the ground. And then she gets shot in the fucking face. Yeah, twice in the face.

And she she does not die. No, she runs claws and runs to the cornfield and honestly one of the best cornfield. She's one of the most films. Yeah, it was filmed really. Beautifully, and I love that they brought in an actor for that.

And she ate it up, she really did. And it's the most compelling part of the movie, the way it's filmed, the way she is, just how like dire and terrifying everything feels. And and then you get you just now it's three guys in a cop car talking about things you don't care about, with weird music playing over it. Okay, all right, I guess this is the balance this movie has struck. Yeah, it's it's such a shame because I think that that sequence and again, I think it's a combination of like, okay, staging it and because it doesn't feel like it's messy, it's sloppy, right, like this this is this killer is not really It's not that he's not I mean, yes, in a way, it's like he's not good at what he's doing.

And also he's not like I don't know, he's not Michael Myers, Like he's not this unstoppable killing machine. He's a guy who clearly has a lot of things going on in his head and is not playing. It doesn't feel like he's planned any of this. It's that like he's going to kill two people, he's going to keep killing two people or maybe not, maybe he won't kill them. And the like the sexual assault aspect of this, I think is I'm actually I'm like really glad it kind of stays where it is in the movie because I think it is really disturbing and absolutely that that opening attack, which we don't see much of, but then we hear the aftermath, and that's something I think is like I love when a movie can scare me with words, right purely with dialogue, without showing me anything, without going to that much detail of just yes, she has bite marks, all over her and that is chilling and sets this up as such a like oh like and that he didn't even kill them like he it's makes him so unpredictable, which is really horrifying.

And then we just undercut that with antics of Sparklug not knowing how to drive. Yeah, And I mean, I guess I applaud to a degree the desire to keep it an authentic, like true story kind of thing, but that left them with not like really anything to work with. And when you like, they didn't create any like interesting intrigue of like what was happening to other people or how like they could have created like a fake character for us to live this experience through instead of like this deep alignment with inept cops. Well, and I think that's the other part of this movie that it easily could have focused on instead of again this dumb cop comic relief, is that you have I like the narration a lot. I like, I don't mind the opening narration.

I love the checking in here and there and kind of just saying like and then the town ran out of guns, and then it ran out of locksnuts like all of that, and that aspect of paranoia in a town, which is something I remembered this movie much more as Happen because it is there, right, the idea that the town that dreaded sundown when those when that sun goes down, when those lights go out, everybody get inside and stay inside. And again Cherry Falls will get to obviously kind of like has aspects of that. It's something I love in a movie when it is like, oh, not only is there somebody out there, you know, killing people, which is obviously terrible, but he has taken something away from this town. He has taken away its innocence, He has taken away it's comfort.

He is made you feel unsafe in this place that should be your home and could have easily had like you know, you have a mob. Everybody is paranoid and so people are falsely accusing and just like that part of things could have been a bigger part of this movie and then taken time away from very stupid comedy. No, it's true, there's really no reason that if the Don Wells character was going to get attacked night, there's no real reason why we couldn't have spent more time with her. You know, like that almost seems cruel, but if you're trying to get us to really feel like the visceral fear of this town. Then yes, keep aligning us with characters that then get attacked.

They didn't really commit to any of that. And yeah, to your point, like we see this town stuff, And I wrote that note. I said, like it's best when it's a slice of life. The town's reaction is the most interesting thing, because I too thought the gun thing was fucking wild. But then after don Wells's and her husband get shot through the window, people are like straight up boarding up their windows because now not even being in your house is safe.

So now it's this person is causing you to build prisons for yourself that you're willingly going to go into. And I think that's wildly metaphorical to just like modern existence in general. And plus this is post World War two, like the like that fear driven life that like people were just feeling like they were getting out of that. Now they're getting forced back into where was all that. Yeah, it's like it was there, but like not in like a meaty no.

And especially because they do open with it very clearly being like reminding you it's nineteen forty six. America is just coming off of World War Two, the worst time in their history, but also in some ways morally maybe the best. This, you know, because there is a triumph out of World War Two. There is a like realignment of look what we did. We saved the world, right, and almost everybody you know contributed somehow to the war effort, and like that in itself is something that you could really explore.

The one thing I think, the one time that he gets close to giving his victims a little bit more is is the second I guess it's the third, which is the trombone, right, because you have high school seniors graduating, so we get this great shot of the prom. We get the shot like I think it's right after actually where we just see like the camera is just sitting still on the high school auditorium like from the outside. And there's something about that shot that I'm like realize. I was like creeped out by its like, oh, he's there watching and this is his this is his view of what's happening in there. But I don't know if that was even the case.

It was just a shot that like might have accidentally been scary, I guess. But so you get enough inside of a prom, you get a principal giving like a speech about your graduating and what a time to graduate and go out in the world. And there was just enough within that of seeing you know, also a cool cool girl trombonist, which is a cool instrument for a girl to play, of just this little poke of like, Oh, I don't know a lot about this couple, but I know that they are I know the idea of them, right they are graduating high schoo They're about to go out in the world their kids, but they represent this future, they represent this like youth, and obviously they're about something very terrible is about to happen to them.

And that whole sequence I feel like works better than like it's if the first and again the Don Wells one works better because it's Don Wells, but if the other attacks had a little more of that context. Even without this being the way, the remake is very much like has a point of view. Right here is a character who is in the town who has like a journalistic view of things, so we have a particular viewpoint throughout. And this one is a mess because it's you know, it's the text stranger, it's the sheriff, it's the kids, it's the killer. So there's just no real viewpoint at any point that stays consistent.

But I don't know. I just like, there's there's so many things here that you could edit into I think a good movie. And there is enough there that you can get a little distance and kind of pave over some of the stuff that doesn't work a little bit. And I think that that's great and I got a lot out of watching it. I feel like I'm glad I watched it, you know.

But but like as far as something that I would like want to revisit often, probably not because that the boring parts for me were so hard to like stay like engaged with that it was it was rough and and like that. I really thought the narration was going to be the killer for me. When it started, I literally said to Zach, I was like, are we are we listening to like like a commentary track? What is this like? Because sometimes we'll put in a disc and it'll have like it or so, And I was like, what is this?

Is this wrong? And he was like, no, this it's clicked through. He's like, Christine, it's the movie. Calm down. I was like, but I don't understand why why are they talking so much?

But like, as I get into it, I was like, Okay, well, since it's nobody's story, I guess I like this omnipotent view of like of like this out of time kind of talking to us. But like even that wasn't enough to keep it all like kind of bundled together. Yeah, oh that would have been good if like it's just the end was just like him saying like and they never caught him, and as girls up to like him like saying and that's that and walking away. I just thought it was it was like there were so many cool things there, and you do have to think, like, oh, it's seventy six, so it's it's blazing a lot of trails. And I do give it credit for that, but also like why do they do the cop thing?

The cop thing, because they didn't even make it wasn't even like copaganda where you were like, oh my god, these fucking cops. They were just they were inept and there were so much of them. Yeah. Well, and it's again weird because you have seemingly like a good sheriff, right, like the sheriff that you meet early on, he's the one who finds the second pair. He seems to be somebody that knows what he's doing, cares about what's going on, and you kind of want to see the effect this has on him.

Like that's the other thing I think on like the missed opportunity is that we see that the you know, the Ben Johnson, the main Texas ranger, morales that, yeah, like he is affected by this because he can't solve it. And he somebody who was known as like the best detective in all of Texas, cannot figure this out. So you get a little bit of that with him. But it feels again missed opportunity that you had some compelling characters who should have been like give me that sheriff, don't give me spark plug, let me how this is affecting him, right because this is their town. And like the ending, when we get a sort of like quick where are they now about both you know, some of the survivors and the you know, the people on the other side of it, and it's kind of like, you know, the sheriff was reelected and this was re elected and so on, and you're just like, okay, that, but it doesn't tell me anything like what were that?

What was life really like when you've seen this and you and you know it's still out there, like, ugh, thankfully we can get a and here's where spark plug is now. It really was like trying to shove like a don Knot's character into this or something. It's weird and I'm glad, I'm glad you brought up Last House on the left because that's all I could think about. But it's clear and that why he's doing it, and it is like this absurdist, comedic break but like that that's not what happened here. Well, especially because in Last House it's also like, look at how inept they are.

These parents do have to take it into their own hands exactly, Yeah, they don't have help, And I just one. Yeah if they if the town had been more if what the town was up to had been more present, maybe it would have balanced out, like what the actual authority figures were doing, Like if that was the reason why everybody had to step up and buy all the guns. If we had an Evil Dies Tonight moment. You don't think you. Need it, but maybe apparently every movie needs and Evil does Tonight chant.

Maybe they were being more meta and like on the nose and funny than we realized, because I still can't fuck with that one. The first one I love, the third one, I loved that one. I can't get into. With those who don't know. We were talking about the eighteen Halloween reboot, of which I don't care for any any of them.

Three. Well, look, I mean, we all have our stages. Maybe one day I'll come and preach the gospel of Halloween Kills, but for now, all we got out of that was Evil Dies Tonight. I like her again. I like the idea of what Halloween Kills could have been.

Yeah, I I greatly agree with you on that. Had it taken that route, I would have been there. It did not, so I agree. And and look, if if they hadn't done that Tonight Dies Tonight thing, we might have it might have been even more come to find out who knew who knew? Well, I'm glad I watched it.

I am glad you did too, And I'm I'm glad I revisited it just because it was definitely memories I did not recall well on this movie, and I feel I have a better understanding of it, and I think it's it is one that I'll roll around in my head a lot, because there's things about this that I that I really do think Nail a great form of terror, and it's just a shame that the whole movie can't live up to it. Yeah. Well, let's take a quick break and come back to talk about Cherry Sauce. Oh, all right, Cherry Falls. I had seen it again.

It's killing me that I can't remember exactly when I watched it, but I because I have this memory of watching it in a home that was not my own, like maybe I was dog sitting. I don't know. Like it kills me that I don't know. It's just like this foggy memory that I feel like I should have in my head. Anyway, when did you first watch it four years ago?

Okay for one of your exercises. I think I just watched it because it is one of those. So we both like this time. Period, Like, yeah, I've come around this time period. I did not like this time period when I was living in this time period, but today I find it very nostalgic.

Oh, as we were living it, I enjoyed it as we were living. As we were living it, and I do I did not really know of this movie or too much about it, and it kind of took on a bit of a like a like a lost slasher, kind of like air And so when it it's wounded up, wound up streaming somewhere or something, and I was like, oh, okay, well I'm finally gonna watch it. And I didn't really know what to expect from it because I can't I get it confused with that Emma Cawfield Tooth Fairy movie. I guess is that the fall Darkness Falls. Yes, yes, that's it.

Yeah, and this is Cherry Falls. Look, I get it. My literalism really coming in hot. But when I when I watched it, I kept thinking it was going to be super nast and like spoiler, it's not. It is not.

Yeah, we're definitely spoiling this movie for those who have not seen it. So it very much feels like a more of like a I know what you did last summer style slasher than like a supernaturally thing. So once I think you calibrate, I would say, like, it's like kind of a below average one of those. Yeah. The I think the thing that I find with this movie is I feel like there is a much funner movie inside of this movie that was never to be.

It's the writer, like, there's a little bit of trivia that kind of makes me think this script was probably much more satirical. It sounds like the script was probably more funny in general that it. And again I don't I'm not saying, especially in this era, like oh, every slasher movie should have been like meta and funny in this and that, But it just seems like there is an attitude to this film that the dark comedy aspect of just I mean the very the premise itself, right, there is a slasher killing virgins, so therefore that is as meta as you can get on. Okay, we have to flip it, so now everybody has to have sex and what does that mean for a town? And so on and looking up some of the history.

So the director, it is Jeffrey Wright, who did Romper Stomper like in this this was not his area, Like, he did not do teen movies, so he don't do slashers. The screenwriter, I could not find much else about him. Other things made like and I could be very wrong about this. Based on what I could find, I am guessing he was gay man or is I believe he's still active? And I'm not sure if he's still writing, but I just couldn't find much about like what else he'd done, but it just seemed like things he had worked on were probably a little campier m And I just I think there is a campy, clever movie inside of this, but instead we get like the fact that this movie spoiler alert ends with jmar as a gender bending, like angry high school teacher who was actually the son of a woman who was you know, abused, but like that he is going around killing people dressed in drag, but the movie doesn't know if that's funny or if that's scary or if it's what.

And I just I think this whole film needed somebody to step back and be like, are we making like what is the tone here? Because it's never scary. Really, no, no it's not. And yet it could have been really funny and clever, and it's instead just kind of it just it feels like it's it's not committing hard enough to anything unique about what it could do. Well.

Yeah, so the thing is like you start off with scream, right, and that's already being like clever and meta, so like now you're just trying I guess the from a from a studio standpoint. I'm not saying from an artistic standpoint. You're just trying to engineer something that does something similar, right, So, and I mean, I know what you did last summer is like doing what this movie was trying to do. And then you what's the other one that was literally just in my head that I lost. I lost it, but I had a great point, not that one.

I have another one. It'll come back. But all that you already have these movies doing these like oh Urban Legend. These are. Like meta e like but like extended takes.

So you look at something called Cherry Falls, you know, like cherry and then. The fact that oh, I just got it. Yeah, but it's but no, but like it supports your point, right because it's also just the name of the place. But if you're doing like a campy thing, it's like, oh, it's the Virgin Place. Uh, that's funny ish.

So if you're if you're subverting the slasher from the standpoint of like like the Slutty Kids Live, that's like fun and cool, but that gets demolished in this that. Has nothing to do with why this killer is actually killing people. It's it's barely relevant so I think that aspect of it is interesting. And if it had Valentine is another one that now I'm thinking of. If it had more of a Valentiny take on that it would have been fun.

But then you throw in like the j Moore character who and so the Jay Moore stuff makes it feel solidly like a. Giallo to me, Oh totally, and that that actually makes it much more watchable if you think of it in that regard. True, it is a much more successful. Movie because it's not really slashery. I mean it is, right you of somebody going around slicing up teenagers, you know, hidden behind like we can't see this person when they do it.

We get scenes of people trying to get away and not getting away, Like I think it it's I mean, you're probably more Yallo verse than I am. I know, I've like occasionally what I'll say like, yeah, well you know it's Jello undertones, only no, no, it doesn't. So maybe I don't know what j'allo really is. But definitely when you make that point of the reveal, everything about that does frame it better. If you're like, oh, yeah, that's what he was trying to riff off.

But it kind of feels like that. And when I say it doesn't feel like so smoke, slashery is to me a typical element of this. This wave of slashers is like the the mystery of like trying to find out who it is. But this doesn't doesn't ever make us like really look inward at our community or cast, like I don't feel like there's red herrings or there's like and then I'm looking at the CA and Jesse Bradford's in this and I'm like, oh, yeah, Jesse Bradford's in this. Jesse Bradford's in this movie.

For four seconds he dies, He's the first one to die, and. It's like, yeah, where are the characters? Like I do something about this that makes it like, what is this movie? That's even the note I have, because I think the thing that saves this movie, the reason why this movie has probably any positivity to it, I think comes down to Britney Murphy. Yeah, who is just And I mean it's always sad to think of to think of her.

She died so young. She had such a like lovable charisma, especially at this age, that you just love the fact that like she doesn't she feels like a final girl, but she doesn't feel like a final girl. Like she's the person that like, oh, you would have to fight to cast her right, because she just didn't have the look of a traditional final girl. But she is so riveting and just like you know, she's got that little voice, and she you know, just doesn't like feel like other girls kind of thing. And yet and then I realized at a certain point watching this movie, I kind of like pulled back and I thought to myself, I don't know who Jody actually is as a character.

I know nothing about this girl. Like I know she has a confusing home life, she doesn't want to have sex with her boyfriend. I think she's on the school paper question mark. But I like realized at a certain point that, like, oh, there's nothing. It's funny.

I think I can't remember we've talked about this before. How one of the ways that I can often when I'm reading a lot, you and I both read a lot, and I read a lot of horror. And one of the things I will often notice when I'm reading horror written by men where it's like a female where the female is the main character and she's narrating and so on, and really is a certain point of like, wow, I have no idea what this what my main character looks like, but obviously she must be really attractive based on how many men are around her. And I always like it pulls me out for a minutes and I'm like, oh, right, because the guy writing this this doesn't ever have to think about whether she has long hair, short hair, whether you know she wears I don't know, like answer Short's like just like little things that I think of, oh, I are natural to me to think of when I am crafting a character, and in this case where it's like she's just the person who happens to be in this but I don't know if she's going to college.

I don't know. She's a senior in high school, I guess, like and there was something about that that really made me sit back and appreciate how good Britney Murphy is in this because I'm totally with her. I want her to live, but I don't know anything about her, Like who are her friends? I don't really know in this movie. She she's just.

Got this dude that breaks up with her and that's kind of like at the beginning, and that's just kind of her and then her weird psycho sexual relationship with her dad, who is Michael. There's there like so the virgin thing is funny and could be camp and or could be funny, I guess, but when it's when it's handled like super seriously, like this movie again, like Giello super seriously, Like all the sexual stuff seems really predatory and gross and everything feels really sexually loaded. And I don't understand why, because, like I said, there's not a lot of kids or peers in this. It's mostly adults and kids. So every it's like every adult is fucking creepy as shit with this girl in her and I don't like it.

And her dad is one of them, I will say she does. She is like, Oh, I'm finally gonna go all the way with you, boyfriend. I kept saying no to and he's like, you are acting very weird, and thus I do not feel comfortable saying yes to this, And I felt like that was really nice. Yeah, there was elements of that relationship that I was like, oh, maybe that is something here. Yeah.

I was like, he's really respectful because it's true she's clearly under duress and not really consenting of her own free will and I'm glad he recognized same same. We had baby DJ Walls. In this movie, again, barely in it. You have to you know that from the poster him up at the top. DJ Qualls, the kid from Swim Fan, Jesse Bradford just forgared his name.

Uh, Brittany Murphy. All these these kids are in it, and no they're not, No they're not. If it's like, it's not like Jared Leto and Rebecca Gayheart running around the entire movie like nobody's in this. Movie, well do you do? You want to know who is in this.

Movie other than Michael Bean, other. Than Michael Bean, other than jmore, other than Britney Murphy. We have my second least favorite character in television history. Oh shit, yeah, okay, they're both from the same show. My first least favorite is Noah Benson of Lana Dress for You.

My second least favorite is I forget his first name. I think it's a David. It is Olivia's brother who also shows up on Latter SVU for several seasons, and every time he shows up, he fucks up for life. He's the worst. He's one of the kind of and that's that's the thing that made me mad.

He's a dickhead in this movie. He's one of the teens who's like, uh, he's not the is he the editor of the paper? Noes the editor gets killed. He's like one of the other like kind of douchey kids. And I'm like, oh, good, at least I'll ge to see him die.

Guess who survives this movie? Olivia Ben's the brother sounds mad. Yeah, it's weird. I'm trying to I'm trying to just click through people's IMDV pictures to see who you could be talking about. I should Michael Weston, I think, ok, yeah, Michael western that's him.

There he is, Yeah, I find this. Oh my god. He also played the guy who attacks David on six feet Under. This guy he's the worst characters. I guess, say, man, they know what they got.

I guess. I guess that's a thing for me here too is you know those movies where it's sometimes things just this See Me feels like one of those movies that is hard to remember because it's kind of confusing. Yeah, like I get what happens in this movie, but like the connective tissue feels confusing and obfuscated to me. So now I have seen this movie twice in the span of four years, I still am having trouble remembering what happened in it. Like I know where we start, I know where we end.

I can kind of remember things, but like there's the big Virgin meeting and all the town comes out, and again that's about to be cool. Right in the school scene. Like is kind of funny the whole like like you're gonna have to help them put it in, like and all the girls are like, wait what she's like, no, seriously, Like some of that stuff is funny. Some of it also feels much like anything. Kevin Williamson writes that, like this was not written by anybody who's actually talked to teenagers.

Mm hmm, right, Like what's god? What's the phrase they use? Like the I am in an annihilation? Like like there's just like stuff that you're like, oh, come on, this isn't like like that era of nineties Dawson's creeks that can be very grazing if it's not done well. I get that a little bit from.

Here, definitely, and some people can handle it. But Brittany Murphy can handle it. But she's like an alien in this movie, and I see her do fit. She's not always an alien, so this is a choice, Like she's making this choice, but she can handle it. But then once other people try to do it, it feels that's where all that weird sexuality I think comes from.

Like everybody's like embodying it in their own way, and it comes across like creepy. Sometimes. Yeah, yeah, it's weird. It's just weird. Well end to kind of, I guess, because god, it's so funny.

How when you think of this movie, you would think, like j Moore is in drag in this movie, playing a killer, And yet I don't know anybody that ever like randomly thinks about Jaymore in this movie. No. I forgot he was in it until when we put it on and he showed up and I was like, oh my god, JS in this, And then I was like, oh wait, I think he might be the killer. They all kind of hit me at once. Because why, I mean, I know why he's doing it, but like, what what's the endgame?

What's his plan after? Right? He wants to frame? Oh so I actually hold on? I wrote this down.

No, no, I wrote this down. Okay, okay, okay, shit, maybe I didn't anyways, I had I read somewhere that the point was so Okay, so Michael Bean's character who's the sheriff, and also some other figures from the town, right the Jaymore's mom, and Jaymore's mom gets pregnant with him, and I guess the movies I'm paraphrasing basically says like the assault drove her crazy and then she just ended up torturing him and abusing him as a child. Okay, that's like classic shit, right, So why does he want to kill all the virgins in town? I think I read it was to take what was precious from the parents. Yeah, I guess, so.

Like what well? And yeah, and only of the right, there's four guys and two of them are are gone, so it's just the principal and Michael Bean. So these other victims are not in any way related, presumably to the men who attacked his mother. And I mean, I guess again, like the idea of again, bring it back to the town, dread dreaded sundown, the idea of I wanted to fuck up this town the way this town fucked up my mother, that I want them to be scared. I want nobody to feel safe because nobody stood by my mother.

Right. We learn from Jodie's mom, who's an alcoholic who uh gets to play that fun blousey alcoholic stereotype of these movies that that like, nobody would bring charges up against the men because they were golden boys and it wasn't gonna happen. So him saying like I want to get you know, get pay them back, but which makes sense, but it doesn't really make sense the way it comes out from him. I don't know. It's just and why he's dressing like his mother, who I guess is dead right, But yeah, while he can drive really quickly because when Michael Bean goes two hours to West Virginia to look up the house, it seems as though Jmore is there, but then he gets back in time too.

So well then at the end they tease that she is alive because Jade or is that just. A like I don't know, Jess, audience has said we needed a less scare. Well, I mean six and one, half a dozen and the other right, because like or is Brittany Murphy losing her mind? Like? But they do the flash at the end of like the you know, woman with the hair standing on the street corner and you're like, uh, okay, but that that the reason why that is strange is because we didn't talk about it.

Jay Moore's character dies, or maybe we did, just not the way I wanted to talk about it. He dies, and then before he can get back up and start killing people, like the townspeople just take it upon themselves to make sure he's dead. What do they do? They like shoot him in the head. Oh yeah, is it the deputy deputy?

But like all the people from like the like, all the people are outside and like milling around, and they don't allow him any time to hop back up. And I thought that was very like, uh, I don't know that was that was it was? It really is very evil gized tonight, but addresses in a fun way that like, why do we keep letting the same thing happen? Something fall out a window, window and walk away kind of thing. So I did appreciate that, But but again there's something about this movie that feels wrong.

Well, and so it it ends and now the co I can't remember, it's like the FBI or what are now sitting down talking to Britney Murphy and her mom saying like Okay, so why did he do it? Like can you tell us why he did it? And she's like nope, don't know, Nope, don't know. Bye bye. Yeah, And I.

I think that is a really it's a specific choice because there is an element here like fun to every now and then, like even like a movie like this that I don't think was ever designed to be like deep, but there is an aspect here of oh no, there's a there's an important, like thoughtful theme of adults disappointing children, right of a teenager coming of age at a point when they can look at their parents and say, oh my god, look what you did right? You fucked up and you and this is your fault. Like that is I think, you know, fundamentally, that is Friday thirteenth. That is nightmar in elm Street. Right, It's that children are paying for the sins of their parents, and that's here.

And I guess that was another question I had, was at I don't know that the movie is like, you know, kind of deep enough to grapple with it, but there's a point where you're kind of thinking, like whose side should I be on here? Because yeah, Michael Bean did a terrible thing and did not pay for it, and Jay Moore obviously has grown up paying for it every day, and maybe I shouldn't feel so bad about him killing Michael Bean. But then the ending where Jody makes the decision to keep protecting this secret, and I think that's I can't decide if that is like a choice that is meant we're meant to sit with and be like, man, this is bad. That's just gonna keep going. And that's why the falls turned red because the sins are always there, or if it was just like I don't know, it'd be kind of a downer if she has to admit that her father was a rapist.

Wow, I mean it feels like it feels like they maybe they didn't even know though, right, like what the whole movie feels like what are you telling me? Because like, yeah, the sins of the town, the sins of the town, how do you how do you fix that by killing the virgins? I don't understand or or like marking the version, like why targeting virgins? Why why? I don't see the I don't see the connection, like I get like if in like a Nightmare on Elm Street situation like that, yeah, obviously, like yeah, why he's mad and why he's choosing to act out in this way.

But uh, like, I don't know, maybe it would have been more interesting if like he was, then it wouldn't have been a slasher. I don't really know. I think really I think, you know you're hitting on it. That's the problem fundamentally with this movie is that it's almost like the pitch was, we're gonna we're gonna be a slasher where the killer is actually killing virgins. Done, Okay, give me that script.

I love it. Yeah, right, And then they like were like, oh shit, it's Thursday at nine o'clock and I haven't finished that script yet. What can I do? Okay, let me go back to like what happens in slashers. What is the cau what would the villain be doing?

Why would he be doing it? Oh? Okay, it's the sins of the pair. It's like where it feels almost like not that it's two different movies, but that the idea of a slasher about a killer targeting virgins. And I mean clearly this movie was built to have the climax be haha at the orgy scene right where you just have a bunch of sloppy, messy sixteen year olds trying to figure out how to have sex.

And that was another reason for lots of cuts and so on. And the initial plan for that was it was just gonna be like everybody under one sheet and just like bodies moving, and then when the killer comes by, like just blood everywhere. But and that you could do a lot with that story. But instead it's like, okay, no, here's I figured out the killer. The killer was born and his mother abused him because she was raped, and so this and that, and then at some point you're like, now we have to put them together.

Yeah, they don't really fit, but we have to start making the movie. Yeah. It does feel like two disparate ideas for sure. And both ideas are cool, right, Like I'm actually like into both ideas, but together both of them kind of lose like effectiveness. Yeah, and there's still there's so much cool stuff here because I mean, like ninety nine, right, It's it's such a late nineties movie.

Everybody looks late nineties. The color palette is very of the time. Chokers going on, so many chokers. Brittany Murphy's wardrobe from top to bottom is perfection, so there's so many things here, and even like the story is there, but like something about the execution just leaves one wanting and also leaves it impossible for me to remember apparently, Okay, holes in my memory about this movie. Here's a fact that I hope you don't forget because I find it delightful.

Okay. So the script was making its way around Hollywood and for the production company had a target in mind for who should make this movie, and they sent the script to him, and he actually really liked the script, but he decided instead there was another story that he wanted to tell, and that story was a straight story. Really, this was offered to David Lynch. I'm I would have known that's something I would have liked. Can you imagine?

Because it would have been See that's a man that can handle multiple ideas and through lines in an interesting way. So if you really did want this to be kind of a camp thing about virgins but also a weird meditation about the sins of the father, then I think he could have done it. But I'm glad he didn't. I am glad too, because then I what if we didn't have the straight story as it was? That would be a true and amount of crime.

Truly the best thing we've ever covered on the show. Yes, I think about that movie every day constantly. I got I got a David Lynch calendar this year and it's just art art from my friend Alex Kittle does this beautiful Lynch art, and the calendar is a movie for every month, and this month it's Wild at Heart. September my birthday month. Oh, straight Story can't wait?

Yes, yes, I love it, love it so much. Oh man, this was no straight Story, but you could still watch it. Maybe it's watchable again that nineties itch man, you got you that that era is. Even when it's not good, there is just something so watchable about it for us because we watch it, we're like, oh I had those shoes. Yep, it just will work every time.

Now, it's fascinating. At one point, Brittany Murphy is like her hair's all over the place, but at her like most ethereal gorgeous in this movie. She's like sitting on the edge of the bed in this like all black outfit, and unprompted, Zach turns to me and goes like that that absolute dream girl, that's the perfect that's the way the perfect girl was dressed at that time, and it's it's so true. She looked like Adelia's catalog. It was just this, this perfect snapshot of like in nineteen ninety nine, that's who guys wanted to be with, who girls wanted to look like.

Like it was just locked in and it's so true. And I was like, yep, she looks like a fucking catalog picture. Yeah, and I missed that time for aesthetics alone. Yet well it's I mean, it's back right. It is, but there's just this you know, kind of sad authenticity to it from the nineties.

This is fair, This is very fair. All right. Well, those were two movies. They were a varying quality throughout. Yeah, both of them throughout.

That is, they have a lot more in common than I thought. It was such a weird pair I watched. I watched Cherry Falls first, I think, and then I watched and sund Out, and then I was like disappointed in both of them. And I was like, but in and of itself, that's fascinating, but both of them were like disappointing in the same weird way. Yeah, I could see what you mean.

I definitely wanted both of them to be like more exciting discoveries again, yeah, particularly Cherry Falls, because again I think town that dread sundown has more about it that just kind of sits somewhere where's Cherry Falls. I was like, no, I mean, I feel like this might be a hidden gem. No, it could have been a hidden gem, but yeah, that's never never commitsd. I think it's a hidden oddity or like a forgotten oddity. I watched Human Zirconia.

Perhaps yeah, sure, Brittany Murphy can't go wrong. But also j Moore kind of being like the villain from Malignant. Oh yeah, I thought a lot. I forgot about that. Do you think that James Wand was in luenced by the look from Alexit from this?

So? I hope so? And didn't Aquila Cooper have like heavy credits on that. Yeah. I wouldn't put it past her because she's.

Our that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, I would not put it past her. But again in Malignant, that that visage is so inherently like Giallowy feeling. Yeah like that. It just is another thing that makes this movie Cherry Falls feel like a Giallo weird I wish I wish it had been more violent than look, I could talk about what I wish this movie could be for days.

I'm with you. I'm with you. It was a good one, though it was it was an interesting pairing. So both of them are out there somewhere. I think Terry Falls I rented on Amazon.

Uh pound the read send down as you said, it might still be onto me. Or you can crack open a gray market DVD if. You so desire, or if you're into it. I swear the thing, the one that I watched, which I think is what you said screen factory beautiful good so pretty. Yeah, all right, well have said all that.

We're not sure yet what we'll do next. We'll talk off Mike perhaps, Yeah, who knows, you know, we'll surprise you. However, we go. Keep enjoying your summer people. Yeah, have a good one.

I made it through the wildern somehow I made it through. Didn't know how lost I was till I found. You. I was beat. It's complete.

I've been had. I was sad and blue, but you made me feel. Yes, you made me feel shiny and new, like a virgin. Hey touched for the very first time, like a virgin. Listen to your heartbeats like a virgin.

Oo, like a. Virgin feels so good inside when you hold me and your heartbeats and you love me. Oh, whoa ho, whoa whoa like a verguin.