Elf

We wait. No, someone doesn't have to. I don't have notes. I don't I didn't even watch the movie this time? Should How dare you make assumption you weren't even here the last time we did this, Richard?

What's your problem? You programmed an entire month. You know Rod has an entire month next year, and I'll probably give Susan a month too, because that would be fun. But Richard, guess what, you didn't show up. You just you you.

You bailed on your responsibilities as a co host, which frankly for me is tantam out the highest sin of all. And then he blames his internet. He's on the West Coast and he was blaming his internet. What I is? I live in the Midwest.

I have no excuse here. I happen to have a witness right here, right below me, in the Brady Bunch squares, who knows that we lost our internet and also was instrumental in getting it repaired yesterday just so we could do this. Well. I believe the latter Bart for sure. I believe Richian got it fit.

Rich was about to lose his mind because it was basically like the Internet was collapsing in on itself like a black coal and pulling the internet h small, So I had I had to leave my beautiful exterior garage office podcast studio and travel all the way inside the house to sit next to where the sutil was and I know which happens to be right outside of Richard's office exactly. And and what we learned, we learned something valuable this week. Rich We need we need a house length. We need a house length between us. Needs a house link between us.

I was fine, Oh, excuse me. Every time I was talking, and when I was talking to you Chris about some very personal things, She's like, oh. Yeah, but to be fair, to be fair, all of those answers were offered Richard. No all also willingly because Richard asked. Unfortunately for Richard baby, I don't know, yes.

For Susan. For Susan hearing at secondhand, Richard, Yeah, did you ever think about other people in your space? I have one volume? I oh, yeah, it's okay. So I wanted more than anything to join you and Will and David on Miracle on thirty fourth Street, the nineteen forty seven version, which is the only one I've seen.

I hope you guys have listened to that episode. It's a wonderful episode. I was not needed. The three of them did a masterful job of covering the both movies. I only and I listened to it last night and on my on my drive to UCLA to teach my TV class.

So look, I'm glad I'm here now. I enjoyed listening to what you guys did, And of course I was participating in my car, yelling and trying to interject and then realizing no one was hearing me, and it was all for nought. And to be fair, I mean, in this world that we live in now, you're allowed to call me whatever slurs you like at the podcast, not on the post screaming things out. How dare you have this opinion? Jesus fucking Christ as they would say.

Well, no, no, no, I mean literally the only thing I would have said, because do you know how I am? And I'll do it again on tonight's episode for ELF. I just I'm always zeroing in on theme and structure and stuff. And I was so pleased by the way Chris that you loved Miracle on thirty fourth Street nineteen forty seven version and referred to it multiple times as a perfect film, which I mean, I love that. I anytime I introduce you to a film you haven't seen and you like it, I feel like, you know, an angel has earned its wings if you will.

But never seen this movie, just so you know. I love that David zeroed in on the post war context of the film, especially with that wonderful scene with a little Dutch girl. I just loved that he pulled that out. And then of course the subsequent scene where or actually was a previous scene where the mom was like, you know, Santa, you know I can't afford it, don't tell him I can't do it. And he's like and Santa's like, oh yes, little boy, you will definitely get that present.

And she's like, oh yeah, thanks Santa, and then and then realizes that Santa is actually saying, well, you can get it across town at at a much discounted price. And then of course she's the one who sort of lights the fire of oh my gosh, Macy's is sending people to Gimbals and other stores. All I would have added in is that what's lovely about the film is that the the the notion of these department store heads adopting and sort of glomming onto this idea of who can be the most selfless department store at Christmas is played for comedy, because so much is his character comedy. And there's that one scene where the two guys, the head of Gimbals and the head of Macy's, are sort of trying to out generous each other, you know, in front of Santa, and you know, it's like, well, well, Santa, you said you're you know, you know someone who needs an X ray machine, and uh, well we can get you one.

Well we can get you one for twenty percent discount. Well I can get it for you for cost and then they laugh. But it's such a wonderful and friendly and generous satire of Christmas commercialism. Right, the capitalism that is Christmas time. Exactly which I loved, and it invites the audience in because it's not.

The nice thing about George Seaton is that he knew it. It wasn't it wasn't a lesson anyone needed. Everyone gets it, everyone understands. So he's like, well, we all get it, So now we can enjoy watching these guys even trying to outdo each other on the level of who can be the most benevolent, which I loved now. The only other thing I would highlight about that movie that I really love is is it's very modern sort of juxtaposition of what is it safe to believe in now?

Plot Wise, it's about Santa Claus and does Santa Claus exist? But I found it to be like shockingly almost breathtakingly modern when it was about a woman who is divorced in nineteen forty seven star of the movie Marine O'Hara divorce with a little girl, and it's all about I've been through a bad marriage. I'm raising a child alone, and because of that, I'm also kind of raising her to know that the world isn't a place where dreams always come true. So I'm not telling her about Santa Claus. And we learn this very early on, and we're not made to look down on her.

She's just like, look, this is how I'm raising my child, and we love her and we get it. And yet the actor who plays her love interest is not only the lawyer defending Santa Claus, but he's also the one saying, if you're going to let bad things in the world cut you off from the magic that human beings can offer each other, like love, which is very intangible, then you're missing out on most of what life is about, and the intangibles are the important thing. And I just thought it was so elegant and mature in a way for a movie to go you think it's a movie about proving Santa, and everyone's like, oh, Santa is real, but of course it's not. That's the metaphor story is, after the world has been dragged through a hideous, bloody war, can you believe in human goodness?

And I think that's why the forty seven version resonated, and I think that's why it's a classic for all time. And I also think what you just said could be directly applied to the movie we're about to talk about now, because we're talking about a movie that came out in two thousand and four, not necessarily post war, but during war, but post one of the One of the things that I still have a hard time interacting with, and I interact with plenty of people younger than me, but it always trips me out to know that there are children who were born after nine to eleven, because that is not a shared and there will be kids now that will be like, oh, you were born after the pandemic. Huh, that's fucking weird for me.

Like to think that there are people born after nine to eleven is wild for me. And this comes out in two thousand and three, so you know, two years removed from nine to eleven. But it is a movie that, similarly, I think, is all about not cutting yourself off from humanity or the possibility of humanity being better than they seem. And that's I think Will Ferrell's character is kind of almost obnoxiously the case in terms of like the goodness that is humanity. So yes, on this episode of.

The Culture Cast, I'm still your host Christashi, much to the chagrin of at least two people in the world, and I'm joined by my good friends all the way from Flick Attack, Rod. Lott, thanks again for having me. Back all the way from an award winning podcast, eighties TV Ladies two years in a row, probably going on three. Susan Lambert, Hello, thanks for having and all the. Way from Richard Adam's paranormal book show he programmed this entire month.

I don't have a clever name for it, because it's just Christmas movies this year, your friend and mine, Richard had him. And from the non award winning podcast Richard Hadam's paranormal Bookshelf. Richard was nominated, and that's a win, you know, it's really. It reminds me there was a movie that came out in the eighties that my friends and I saw. I forget even which movie.

View was Larry be Furious with Me. But the trailer is like Academy Award winner Jane Fonda, Academy Award winner Irene Kara, and Peter Fonda. Here's another louder than the absence of the word Academy Award winner. I mean, my qualifier is that I know that of at least two people in the world who hate me, So would you rather that instead? I don't know why you've never counted me?

Oh sorry, I said at least two? Okay, God, all right, it's a part of the and the rest. Right. So now that our miracle on thirty fourth Street addendum or PostScript as it were, is over, we're here for tawtrees. Yeah right, Yeah, we're here to talk about a film that is probably near and dear to at least some of our hearts.

I think all of our hearts. I don't think you would. Talk about this movie by choice otherwise, not because it's a bad movie, but because, well we'll see. Because I don't know where this conversation is going to go, but I'm excited to have it because on this episode we were talking about two thousand and three's Christmas comedy Classic and dare I say, possibly a perfect film. Jon Favreau's Elf Buddy.

Oh, it's not a costume. I'm an elf. Well, technically I'm a human, but I was raised by els. On November seventh, the world's largest elf is coming home for the holidays. We also try to stick to the four main food groups candy, candy canes, candy corns, and Sarah will theerrow.

Okay, people, fanos coming to Santa. I know him, I know him. Well, what do you want for Christmas? I'll put in a good word with the Big Man. Rated BG starts Friday, November seventh.

So the film is written by David Berenbaum, directed by Jon Favreau, and it stars Will Ferrell as the titular elf whose name is Buddy, who crawled into Santa's bag on a snowy Christmas night and made it all the way up to the North Pole, where. Of all people. Bob Newhart is his dad. Ed Asner is Santa Claus ed Asner, who I had the pleasure of talking to on another lifetime. It feels like many moons ago.

Yeah, Richard didn't know that one the fuck? Yeah? Oh yeah. I interviewed ed Asner a long time ago, very long time ago. Oh do you still have Does it exist in the Flack.

River still somewhere? I forget. We were talking about a change of habit the Elvis Priest movie where he's like a fucking singing doctor. No, he's a singing doctor. That's what it is.

Mary Tyler Moore is a priest, like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. That's amazing. That's the same year he did the Gilbert Godfried interview, which I just listened to. I'm going to listen to yours. I think I think Mike even had him on his show, even Of All People, but not to get bogged down.

In the ed Asner of It All, ed Asner plays Santa Claus. James Kahn plays of All People, Will Ferrell's dad. Mary Steinbergen plays Will Ferrell's I guess that would be his step mom in the film, and Zoey Deschanel plays his love it. So yeah, it's a movie about an elf that lives in the North Pole that comes to New York City to find his dad, who's played by James Kahn. Doesn't that sound like a weird conceit?

Because it is so Susan, I'm going to kick it to you first, even though Richard programmed the month. But as they say, women in late ladies and women get on lifeboats, we have to stay on the sinking ship. So Susan, let me know, what when did you see Elf? What did you think then? And what did you think?

We're watching it for this episode of the Culture Cast. I saw Elf when it came out and really enjoyed it. I mean, sort of Will Ferrell at the height of his powers and and everybody kind of firing on all cylinders. I thought it was great and have continued to watch it. It's it's certainly in our Christmas rotation that we watch because I know it'll be a surprise that Richard had him likes to watch Christmas movies around Christmas time, and he usually starts up December first, and it becomes exhausting for the rest of us.

He loves them so much. I like Christmas movies, but I can't keep up with Richard had Him But this movie, watching it again, it's it's always delightful. I like to find you know, there's there's so much humor. And what I love and noticed this time is how much time they take for just a very very sweet joke. Uh and and that is you don't see as much in comedies now where where they really will just spend time setting up the sweetest little joke like the Norwaal that comes up and you think it's scary and everybody runs off and then he's like, bye, buddy, hope you find your family.

Thanks mister Norwal that screen time at the beginning of the movie. And yet it's it's absolutely charming. What about you, Richard HadAM Well. I was just gonna say, when I tell you who did the voice for the Narwal, You're gonna know a lot about why this movie is great. It was Ray Harryhausen, who is a legend of stop motion animation, which is the sort of animation that was used for all the little animals and for Leon the Snowman, and so much of this movie is a conscious obvious salute to other classic Christmas movies that we love and.

An entire show on show we love. I don't know how much more we need to love them at this point, Like is he can mention this podcast we did together for three fucking years, Like I don't know stop motion? He says, don't you mean an an emotion? Well, well but Ray Harryhausen did stop motion and he didn't do ani magic, so or you know, just to be. Whitch, just why did you have Paul Freeze in this movie?

That's true, that would. Have been, but it would have totally fit. That's my point. Yeah, this is a movie, in my opinion that I'm gonna say. And by the way, I see again Chris, I love how you said it's an almost perfect film, because I would agree.

And I love this movie and I'll watch it anytime it's on. I do have a couple of quibbles because I'm a screenwriter, and if I don't have a few quibbles, that's very rare because if. You didn't have any quibbles, you wouldn't be here. I liked it okay, by. You know, did there later?

And and ultimately they're inconsequential because I think the movie succeeds overall and has indued and becomes better with each viewing in a lot of ways. But it is such a conscious and Jon Favreau talks about this, it's such a conscious and intentional almost love letter to the Christmas movies of our childhood. And when I say our, I mean people who are my age, Susan's age, and John Favreau's age. The tone of the movie, as exemplified by Will Ferrell's performance, but then throughout the movie I think is spot on. And I almost want to say, having listened to your episode on Miracle on thirty fourth Street, that refers to the nineteen ninety four update of that movie by John Hughes, which you guys rightly called out for being a little tone deaf and a little crass.

This movie doesn't do that. When Susan and I were watching it this afternoon, I said, you know what's nice about this movie They purposely avoid a very obvious joke, which is Will Ferrell in New York and people leaning out windows and going, hey, ole move it. They never do that. That's that's being diplomatic of what they would be saying. Right, But you know, you don't get the you know you don't get the people, you know, throwing a cigar him and say and move it along, fairy, you.

Know, thank you, that's what I Yeah. All the shitty things that you would just go, oh, well, hey, you've got a guy, a full grown adult dressed as an elf. Well we got to have him walk by a hooker going hey, honey, I like to put on costumes. All that shitty, crass bullshit that could have easily been in this movie, and you wouldn't have questioned it. But think about the titanic level of restraint and attention to tone that the screenwriter and then Jon Favreau, they went, look, you know what, let's not do that.

People are patient in a weird way with him as he goes up the escalator, blocking twenty people. Let's just let's just let people take him in and be bemused. But we're not going to do the you know, hey new Yorkers, you know how they are. Wouldn't that be a much more fun movie though, a bunch of New York Hey, get out your fucking ale. It would be a grain film.

Just an hour and a half. The people call asshole. Yeah, hey, Sanna, aren't you a pedophile? It's like who no one needs. That, that's the nineteen ninety four miracle and thirty four.

All right, Rod, what are your thoughts on alf. I being on you know, back when they had actual screenings, advanced screenings for critics and stuff. We went to the advanced screening of this. I took my then six year old son and my then three year old daughter. I was a big Will Ferrell fan from Essena, which he had just gotten off like seven years of earlier.

In that year, I was a big fan of Old School, particularly because of Will Ferrell. This is like the polar opposite, no no pun intended, but it perfectly works polar. I came out of it on such a high in thinking I have just seen a new Christmas classic, Like I really think this is gonna be something that left history has proved me right. For one, I love it. I mean I've seen it many times.

I think it is close to perfect and we can get into that later. But it's genuinely funny. It's somehow it plays to young kids, old people. It just it does an excellent job being legitimately funny, legitimately emotional, sweet and be sour at times, and it somehow just all works around this tour de force comedic performance of Farrell I don't think gets enough credit. Even I understand why people dislike him and his stick, but I happen to love it, and I think he's a comedic tonight.

I love this. So I kind of figured as much, Rod, because you were like very adamant about being on this episode, which is a good thing, because I will say something that might even go even further than what you're saying. And I said, you know, almost perfect movie, and I think you know, we're all kind of in the same camp already. I actually think it's kind of horseshit that Will Ferrell didn't get nominated for Best Actor for this. I'm not kidding, because this is a genuinely it's a perfect performance.

In a way, the performance itself elevates an otherwise horseshit premits, because that's to your point, Richard, Like the premise is so it could have gone so fucking poorly from just the first joke, and yet it's because of Will Ferrell. Just listen, like what you just said, Rod, say what you will about Will Ferrell. Now say what you will about the guy who's made however many movies with Kevin Hart at this point, because I don't even know how many movies it. Is, like, it's like at least two, possibly four. His comedic thing stick Ouvra at the time, two thousand and three with Elf, an old school two thousand and four with fucking Anchorman, which I think is also I think for me, Anchorman is where he jumps the shark because he just starts doing ron Burgundy from there on out because it made so much money and was such a big deal.

But I kind of wish in an al three universe, Will Ferrell had kind of used l as a launchpad for other more serious things, because while Elf is a funny movie, I think he in this movie is very like to your point, Richard, he is very like while the script practice is restraint, the movie also his performance practices a ton of Will Ferrold, because I mean, it's an insane amount of restraint that he practices, which is why I think he's so good, because his performance could have been so off putting, lee childlike that you would have been like, get this off of my screen for different reasons. It's so funny that you say that, because the moments you remember are the moments where he is completely unrestrained and just you know, overflowing with volcanic levels of enthusiasm for Santa Claus or his dad or whatever happens to be coming down the road at him.

It is a lovable for performance and it's the kind of thing that I love. Susan's like, you love this sort of thing, don't you. I'm like, what are you talking about? She's like, you love the movie about the innocent, about the you know, the person who's seeing the world for the first time. And it's true, I really do.

I think you know. And Chris, you and I covered the movie Big. That's what I Yeah, That's that's why I said if Big, If Tom Anks can get nominated for Big, why can't Will Ferrell get nominated for Ell. It's it's his performance in this movie is like Robert Downey Junior in Tropic Thunder. The movie is.

Really good, but but because it has a performance in it that is so perfect and so like again with this movie, it's perfect in a different way, but it elevates an otherwise great movie to a point where it's like you have to see it because of Will Ferrell's performance. You have to see Tropic Thunder for Robert Downey Junior's performance. I couldn't describe to someone what it's like to see Robert Downey Junior do a black patois for an entire hour and forty five minute movie and it not really be offensive. I don't think, like again, I don't think. I think the industry more or less agrees.

But Elf is a little bit of a different story. But again, he's playing a child which could have gone so poorly, so quickly. And yet to your point, Richard, there are these moments that people remember, like Sannah I know him and like screaming at the top. Of his lungs. It's because it's not that one hundred percent of the time, right, It's those moments, and he knows when to do it to you can tell.

Will Ferrell's comedic timing to Rod's point, is impeccable, if not perfect, in this movie. But that's also a credit to the screenwriter David Berenbaum, who's Haunted Mansion. I actually really like unironically, even though I had kind of gotten maligned when it came out. And also Jon Favreau kind of sort of a modern day Steven Spielberg in a way. He's kind of been in and around a lot of things and ushered in a lot of pop culture stuff that again, Christmas Classic kind of made Star Wars worth giving a shit about, kind of you know, started Marvel and we have him to thank for.

Robert Downey Junior in anything post two thousand and eight, like I. Would, I would almost compare him. And I was thinking about this, like he's another version of Rob Reiner or Penny Marshall, people who make excellent movies in various genres. Rob Reiner made maybe the best romantic comedy ever. Then he made a horror movie, then he made a drama, and it's sort of like, oh, yes, stand by me, stand by me.

The same guy who directed Spinal Tap, who directed When Harry Met Sally. You're like, wait, the same guy, and no one has ever really drawn these And then you look at Penny Marshall. She did Big, she also did Awakening, also did the League of her Own or League of their Own, and you're kind of like, wait a second. They were all various genres, wildly different kinds of movies, but they were so locked into the craft of it that they were able to get everything they needed out of that genre and deliver a superior, if not the best, modern example of those genres. Jean Favreau does the same thing in a lot of ways, certainly does it here, and I think it really does from his love of these movies and his feeling that they don't need to be reinvented and injected with modern cynicism.

There's really only one character who is anti Buddy, and that's James conn and that's that was a decision decision, clearly by the screenwriter, but clearly going forward, a decision made that he's the one guy. Now, it leads us to some of my third act questions about this movie, but we can get to that later. Right now, let's celebrate the fact that that in terms of cast, in terms of set design, costume design, everything in this movie is hitting at one hundred percent and just winning us over in the first ten minutes, so clearly, so clearly knowing its audience and knowing what that we're going to get what he's getting, and he's talking to us and we're going, yep, yep, we all watched Rudolph. We're here, we're with you, we get it.

And you're not shitting on it. You're not taking a dump on the stuff we care about. You're you're you're sort of holding our hand and going I saw those two and I liked them too, And you're safe with this movie. I'm not going to turn this upside down and slap you for loving the things you loved as a kid. I'm gonna bring you along and we're going to continue to love of this new thing as much as we love the old thing.

Yeah, it's it's funny without it's funny. It's that funny that's not mean, that doesn't have a mean spirit. It's and that is just pretty freaking rare. And hard how to do. It's because it's so funny.

It's I will say that there that the cynic. What's interesting to me is that the most cynical the movie is is with the New York children's publishing industry. Those are mobsters right running like. I mean, James Cohn, right, James Connus, literally fucking yeah yeah. And when he pushes for a minute, when he's like, who are you?

Where'd you find this? I'm like, he's going full mob on this kid. Who said the Christmas Gram? Like what was he gonna get up and break his fucking caps? And shit?

Well, there's a toll way you could go take buddy the elf. I've heard it's very convenient this time of year. His boss, Michael Lerner, is you know played by Michael Lerner? Is you know? Minus ain't this quarter for my kids books?

He's he's gonna break his leg because his niece is unhappy with the book. And that just felt very funny, Like they're basically gangster the New York gangsters are running the book industry. Is that any better? Any worse than the third act? Christmas nazis on fucking on horses?

Oh my good God? Like, what is what is happening in this movie? Yeah? This movie? This movie does have some weird stuff going on.

Oh okay, the James Kahn of it all being part of it. Frankly, like, I like him, but it is kind of a weird thing that James conn. Is in this movie. Wait, okay, let's talk about the thing that it pulls off in a way that still stuns me, because I still get nervous every time this plot line starts. Peter Dinklage, Oh okay, they and God bless him.

I didn't see the joke coming, but they bring him in and I love again how they play. Kind of to Susan's point, it's like, Okay, Peter Dinklige is the most popular of all children authors, and he's clearly an asshole. I mean, just just the biggest prick in the smallest frame you can imagine, and he comes marching in. Of course, it's all leading to a joke. It's like, really literally just leading to a single joke.

Almost the whole movie. Frankly, it's been leading to this one moment that pays off brilliantly. And I and when I see it happening, all I can think is, God bless Peter Dinkledge. God bless him for hearing the pitch. I'm sure John Favreau had to say, look, Peter, we haven't met.

There's something I'd like you to do, but I need to explain first what we're doing here, and for him to go that's funny, No, it's fucking funny. Of course, of course I will do that. And the commitment that Peter d English brings to it, because because I'm sure you know, it's so clear the joke is well, I get to kick the shit out of Will Ferrell. There's nothing better than that. That is what the character would do and it's hilarious.

Great, I'm in I would I haven't dug out interviews, but I would love to hear Peter Dinglish talk about this movie. Oh that money he's got, now, why would he? You had just done the station right and this, you know, no one saw that. I loved it. I loved it elevated idioly too, like everyone could recogniz yeah and yeah, it's it's It is kind of an obvious joke, but it is so it is so well played, so well played.

I think my favorite jokes in the movie are just almost non sequiturs, or maybe that's not the right word, but just the throwaway things like him writing the apology edges. And it's being really detailed, beautiful script is wonderful. That just cracks me up. I mean, this movie just me laugh. Uh.

And it introduced, you know, just enormous into the lexicon that is our our vocabulary of Americana. Well, and I also have to say I have to shut out the score, but the soundtrack, both the soundtrack. And the score. I was like that music, like as soon as it came on, that's what I not really had forgotten. But as soon as as soon as the theme, right, the you know, uh the Elf theme came on.

I was like, oh, yes, and I've heard that separate and been transported back and it's it is rare you get that anymore with us with with just a score and then then the then the whole soundtrack is just one amazing song after another. So I think that really elevates the film a lot. That's uh John Debney right, and he did he did, you know, you know, pocus Pocus liar liar, Like, I was like, who what else do you do? Iron Man two? Uh?

And The Greatest Showman, which I you know, I like that soundtrack, but that's more of a musical soundtrack. But anyway, it's an interesting I don't know, it's just such a beautiful crafted film. It was. It's crafted with love and care, and that is that comes through. You can tell that everybody's kind of you know, even Mary Steinbergen, who's only in there briefly.

She is given one hundred and ten percent and all her scentes like you're just like, oh, she has got phone in this. In she is in it as and Zoe Daschanel, who we know and love from her later work on New Girl. We're watching this and at a certain point I turned to Susan and I'm like, she is there is not an iota of New Girl in her performance. And then we're like, oh right, because that's Will Ferrell. He's New Girl.

He's the naive. He's the naive one. So she's playing the cynical one and does it brilliantly. And every time I see her in this, I'm like, oh right, she's New Girl, but she is like borderline on recognizable, and it's a great performance. I would like, I don't think there's a there is really a bad performance in this entire movie.

I will say that again. I'm always a little bit like, really, James Kahn. Yeah, Will Ferrell as James Kahan's son is a bit of a stretch. I'm like, I know there were probably people on the list above James Kahn, and every time I watched the movie, I'm like, this is either the smartest or the riskiest thing they did. It does tend to work.

Again, considering that he is sort of the one voice of you know, he is for better or worse, the scrooge, and it's like, okay, but man, that I would have been sweating bullets. If I was Jon Favreau the day, the day before the first day of shooting, I would not have slept. I would have been like, do I need to call up someone and get you know, Ted Danson or somebody someone who we will not recoil at the thought of being Will Ferrell's dad. And yet it can't argue it. It does work.

Well, and I wonder I couldn't find the versions of the script, but the original version of the script was darker than the version of the movie We get now, And the credit to who toned it down and got it from a PG thirteen to a PG movie is Jon Favreau, because he wanted to make this a Rankin and Basque tribute thing as well, which he gets I think he gets away with again. But the James con of it all is still the one thing in the movie. Like I it is such a specific choice and he is such a specific kind of actor. I don't dislike it, But every time I watch it him just like what they got Puccino, I don't think it would have been any more believable. This is.

It is Joe Pesci. You know come, I'll tell you. You know who they could have gotten who absolutely would have done it. This kind of movie is de Niro, I mean, just going through the other Godfather people. De Niro actually I think would.

Been a not in two thousand and three, but he would now, oh he was, Are you kidding? He's doing analyze Thisaly, Oh that's true. That's true. But what do you have stood up opposite Will Ferrell in an elf cust? I think I only do legacy projects opposite Billy Crystal.

How you yourself? But but again, but again, put your put yourself twenty one years ago in two thousand and three, when you're you're about to film and you're just like, I don't know, like, would you literally have less confidence in Denio than you would in James conn who is not name the comedies that James Kahn has. No, that's the isn't that the issue here? Like this is the only comic he was a great actress. Bottle Rocket.

Yeah. I was gonna say he's done some and he's done because he's done quirky. Okay, he's done quirky. But is this isn't quirky. I mean he's the he's the he's.

The comedic foil to Will Farrow. I mean that's the thing, Like he is perfect in this movie because he's playing the street man. If he was being asked to do anything other then kind of go hey and like roll his eyes every time Buddy the Elf says something. Up until the last like five minutes of the movie, I think it'd be a different story. But given that he's just you know, he's the one half of the Smothers brothers that didn't tell the jokes, you know what I mean, Like they always need they need a straight man.

So James conn is a perfect straight man for Will Ferrell's bullshit. Like that's that would be the reason you cast James Conn is because it's the most polar to go back to what Rodney thinking, the most polar of polar opposites. But you know what's weird though, if you look at James Conn and a Will Ferrell from behind with the hair that they have in this movie, they do kind of look similar. Though, even though Will Ferrell's like six foot two, I think he's significantly taller than James Kahn. It feels like, like I don't know.

I do love how tall where Will Ferrell is because it adds to the you know what, and we talked about this, Richard, I want to bring Big up again. Big as a movie that kind of gave me the ick at the end, what because of the sex storyline with the woman. It's kind of ick for me personally. I was just like it doubt We talked about it on the episode, like, I think it's the part of that movie that has not aged well because like it's fucking weird. It was weird, then it's weird now.

I get the point. I get the it's you know, we're objectifying maybe or we're having you know, it's about you know, we're having a little bit of a fantasy thing. But like at the end of the day, it's icky. This movie avoids it because he's an adult, but he's he's a child though, like he is a child the way he acts. So the movie kind of almost in a lot of ways, this movie kind of is like the holiday version of Big without some of the ickiness of Big.

Well. Also, that's the difference between the eighties and two thousand and three. You know, Susan's podcast Eighties tv Ladies has recently been been sort of sort of you know, swimming in the waters of a particular theme in films of the eighties, which is overtly adolescent male fantasy. In the adolescent male fantasy is either I mean, it typically runs along the lines of I'm a young teenager, young teacher, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and I'm so interested in sex and I'm so into women who are dramatically older than me. I mean, you've got private lessons and all these kind of things where it's like, but there was like a genre zapped, and you know, and Big is probably the most exalted, like you know, classic example.

But it's still like we were cool with the notion of a fourteen, fifteen year old having sex with a thirty year old woman and it being played as fantasy wish fulfillment that we all sort of understood. We were all sort of in on the well of coarseness of it, which seen forty years later, is fucking bizarre. Wasn't it bizarre? A yeah, I guess it wasn't bizarre then, but it was bizarre then. It was bizarre then, And I stand.

By that, yeah, because I said it on that episode, like I stand by I feel like it had to have been bizarre then, right, I. Remember Big being bizarre then, like that being a thing I was like, but and that's again because it's it's different with Elf on one hand, because he is a in theory, full grown adult who has been raised in a box right in the North Pole. The ultimately sheltered the ultimate childhood. But also we never what they don't do is play a moment where he discovers his weird sexuality with oh my god, I've got a boner. They need again, that is not something they do, and they never imply that anything happened.

In fact, when the most romantic it ever gets is is when Jovie Zoey Deschanelle's character, you know, he kisses her on the cheek and she says, you missed, and they do a lip kiss and that's it, and it's as chaste and innocent, and there is no we don't cut to you know, the Elf costume rumpled on the floor of her bedroom. But we know it happened because they had a baby. At the end of the day, they did have a baby. Sex happening, but they were married. Metro sex consensuable, God fearing elf sex, You're damn right, only elf sex under the marriage law in this household.

Thank you. Not Within the time span of the movie did that ever take place, nor was it even suggested as something that he went through as an experience. Who get it? That work Listen PostScript. Even when she's singing in the shower and talks about he's.

Like, I didn't know you and doesn't care. It doesn't care. Yeah, but that's the I mean, I was gonna say, I thought the sexiest part of the movie is where James Khn takes that lingerie out of the b which I think for me, Ry melds it up and holds it up to Rod. You were mentioning some of the throwaway gags. That is one of my favorite ones.

That's the reoccurring gag of the random laundry is just like, uh, James Kahn, Yeah, just so fucking his reactions are great because but again it's because it's James conn And also they give him the fucking greatest wardrobe. It's just like beije everything, just Beije on beige constantly. But well tailored, well tailored. That jacket. Oh yeah, yeah, Well he's a pub he's a he's a publishing mafioso.

Yeah, for kids' books for children. But they also and again this runs against the first instinct because the first instinct, of course is l from North Pole goes to New York. But when he goes to New York, New York is a wonderland, which is again it's like, wow, Okay, it's different. He's experiencing modernity, he's experiencing an urban environment. But they don't go it's a nightmare to further, you know, exalt the North Pole.

We enjoy that New York. That New York is pennies from heaven. And when he's eating the gum and stuff, we're laughing and we're enjoying it. But but we're. Loving New York.

That's a movie that makes you want to go to New York. And I mean, and let's have the world's best com thank you. See. That is my favorite joke in the entire movie. Congratulations everyone.

That is the funniest joke for me an entire fucking movie. Ils bought a shirt that had that the Neon sign on it that said World's Best cup of Coffee, because that is a Yeah. He is so good in everything, but that scene in particular. Well, and I'm also going to talk about the gum on the stair railing and how long that shot goes on because Will Ferrell is so friggin enjoyable and every like in every piece of gum he picks up has a different, like a different reaction from him. And that scene in particular, like I suddenly flashed on and Chris, you remember this, the Steve Martin from all of me.

You're such a brilliant sort of physical comedy. It's silent movie comedy. The gum eating like it's great. Or the scene where he's got the cotton balls with James Kahn and he's eating them. It's like he's doing some slight of hand too.

He's doing a little bit of slight of hand, Like, come on, Will Ferrell, do you need to be perfectly. Talented at everything? And come from SNL? He is in a lot of ways like his era's Steve Martin, like to come off of SNL. He's the I mean, far and away the most successful person out of that class of people, at least in terms of like men.

I would say, in terms of women, it's a toss up between. Tina fe and Amy Poehler. But like that's all that same like group and age of people, and he has like, well, it's just like Steve Martin, like he's kind of a I don't know if Will Ferrell could sing, I guess or play an instrument. Well he can. Well, he looks like one of the drummers from He looks like the drummer from Red Hot Chili Pepper.

You can tell you that much. But he did. When he harmonized on Baby It's called Outside and Zoe das Channell, you were like, oh, he can sing, because every other example of him singing is him going no, no, no, you know, I'm doing the fake thing. And it's like, oh, wait, no, he can sing with her, which was nice. I want to circle back for a second, and this just occurred to me and all the things that I'm praising about what John Favreau did and even his representation of New York.

And I'm just remembering now, Chris how you sort of placed it contextually two years after nine to eleven, which means they were filming it one year. I was thinking about that, right, and a decision too. It's like, let's also it's also a love letter to New York, to a city that is on its knees, and let's go back and not shit on it and make a bunch of cheap you know, crass jokes about it. Let's remember why we love it and why we love it at Christmas time. You know, Susan and I were just there over Thanksgiving, and so we were there as trees were going up in store windows, and it was about as close to you know, being in elf as as you know, I'm going to get, because I don't get to be in New York a lot.

And it is fun and it is enlivening to be there no matter what's going on in the real world, even now, and that has to be acknowledged too, And in the way, John Favreau has to be thanked for giving us that vision of New York at a time when we wanted to be welcomed back to that city in a way that made us feel safe and warm and made us remember what we love about it and what it has to offer. So so let's let's let's sort of draw a little line under that also for this film. So here's another weird thing that I thought about, and again it cuts back to the Will Ferrell of it all, and I think it cuts to the magical realism of the movie that again, because there is a moment in this movie where he's just he walks out of a tunnel and he's in New.

York City, right, Like that just happened. Is it a coincidence that he was cast as kind of one of the main kind of villains but not really a villain in the Barbie movie, which is a movie that also feels oddly elf like in what it's trying to do, which is again. You have I would actually go as far as to say Barbie may be just Elf, but with God without Christmas. Yeah, without Christmas, but like and again like leaning into the capitalism of it all, because like again Elf is kind of without cynicism towards the capitalism of Christmas. Like we mentioned the etcha sketch that the light brights that he's using at one point, But there's like no capitalism in this movie.

Like's not like he's at Gimbals, which has got to. Be in reference to Miracle on thirty fourth Street, I assuming, but there's none. There's none of like the buy more, buddy, the Elf tells you to buy more. There's none of that. Like it's it's like they don't even touch on Like there's the children's books, but children's books and Christmas not necessarily mutual, like those things don't have to technically do with one another, like Christmas children's books exist without Christmas.

Barbie, though, when I think about it, it just reminds me of this movie, like I think, I again, like I don't think better or worse is kind of that's up to you know, your own personal interpretation of the movies. But they're doing a similar thing where you take a character who, for all intents and purposes looks like an adult, and you strip down and away all of the faculties one would assume a person in two thousand and four or twenty twenty three would have. And that's Barbie in that's Elf. And I think they're both as successful as they are, and I think Barbie is a movie that will last just as long as Elf, hopefully, because they're cutting to similar themes, which is the human experience is not one size fits all, and you will meet people in your life that will change your life and you they may come out of nowhere.

It might be literally a guy dressed like an Elf or a woman dressed like Barbie, because again, Barbie is about a woman who, for all intents and purposes, were led to believe as a human being Barbie. But again, just like a dark interpretation of this movie or a dark interpresentation of that or Barbie, these could just be mentally unwell people invading the spasis upon theirs, like there's a horror angle here. There's no cynicism around it. Again, there were jokes there you could make, but even Barbie doesn't have it. And I think it's following in the lead of something like Elf, which, again, like Miracle thirty fourth Street, is kind of a cynicless, a cynicismless movie in a way movies really aren't ever.

Seen virgin hints at the the minal mentally unwell. Yes, I mean it works because they don't continue it, but just that that touching upon it is really all you need, because man, he keeps layering on the weird desk. Being a fucking weirdo at all. Ever, really, it's like it really says. A lot about Elf culture.

Like elves eat cotton balls, even with blood on them. They don't wear underwear, they eat candy, candy canes, candi corn syrup. We don't see a lot of fat elves at the North Ball. They don't date, don't know anything about sex or gentle relations. They don't know why people would put their names on a desk, and they don't know how to answer the phone.

We need a movie, we need a podcast breaking down Elf from a logical standpoint, And it's just Susan naming everything. Susan that was giving me flashes of the conversation you and Sharon and I were having at whether or not the Princess of Wales was dead, because. You're just like rattling things off like it's this. And also the elves. Elves don't have sex before marriage either.

We know that to be true, and like you said, I don't think they have sex at all. So what did Will Ferrell? He's he was corrupted by human culture? Is the real problem. Ed, I mean ed Asner didn't do a very good job, I guess in telling are there more elves?

Well, I mean, but but like no, Buddy's dad like uh, you know, uh says in the beginning, I was too busy working to take time to have a family, and that's why he wants to. So it doesn't ply that elves. Some elves choose to have a family. That's true, but not Bob Newhart. Not Bob Newhart, he was too busy, but he did want to have a child.

But but the eating of. The well. With the blood on them is but it's. It's a just like you. You you have given so much good will that literally so much good will Ferrell.

But the scene with the little girl, You're welcome. The scene with the girl is another aspect where the film is so confident in its craft. That's this entire scene with a girl we've never seen and we'll see for one shot more and they take the time to make it absolutely adorable. And you've already built his character, you already love him. You have many other ways they can give this, they could have given to somebody else.

But the scene with the little girl where he's like, I'm a human raised by Elvis and she's like, I'm a human raised by humans. She gets to be funny and they have this beautiful moment that then pays off. But you didn't have to have that scene in the movie. Doesn't It doesn't push story you already know about character, but it does delight and it does tell you something of it reminds you this is a Christmas movie and that it's worth spending time with Christmas wishes and desires and friend and being friendly to each other. I like Christmas time, Like I know that people say this, like the holidays put people in the spirit and shit, like we should be.

Nice to each other all the time. It shouldn't have to be the holidays. But if we have to force ourselves at the holidays to be nice to each other, yes, I think to follow, Like if my mom is listening to this, which she probably will be, she has the energy of Buddy the Elf, if that makes sense, you know what I mean, Like not in ever, like in the best way possible, because like I don't know, she's the kind of person that like cares a lot in an uncynical way about people, and I try to be that same way, And I think that's a good thing, right, Like I think you know at you know, like you mentioned these like small moments. I mean, David mentioned it on the Miracle on thirty fourth Street podcast. We did, Richard, you brought it up at the beginning at the addendum the scene.

With the little Dutch girl in Miracle on thirty four Street. They didn't need that scene, and yet we have it to re ensure faith in humanity, right, Like, ultimately, at the end of the day. Similarly, in this movie, we have those moments where it's just like, let's just take a pause and let's just reassure you, like you said, Susan, as the audience that you're aud to, like this human elf man for the human elf that he is, and there is no weird pretense to any of them. He is an elf, he is in elf. Deal with it, and now let's talk about the problems.

It's the Nazison horses for me. Oh, I love it. I love it, but it's bizarrely it's okay, as they say, it's a choice. What's fascinating to me about this movie is that, from a screenwriter's point of view, I feel in my bones a level of discomfort in the third act, and I always feel it, but I feel it sort of less and less as the years go by than when I knew I was going to talk about it tonight. I felt it more.

And this is the one point in the movie where I feel it gets a bit. I'm going to say over its skis okay. And I bring this up only for an interesting conversation. This does not make it less of a movie for me, because there are movies that live on a single performance, and this is one of them. Even though there are many other performances in the movie that I think are good, this movie lives on a single performance, and that is what will always make it something worth watching.

In the third act, it gets a bit over its skis, and here's what I mean, it tries to become about too much. There's a lot of talk in the third act of this movie about people don't believe enough, and we've got to believe in Santa and can Buddy save Santa? But these are not issues that were ever present in any part of the film, and a general sense of people that we get to know within the movie are losing their nascent sense of Christmas spirit doesn't really exist. And the degree to which James Conn's character is redeemed happens very quickly and almost without reason. All Right, what A what A if I had been brought in, In other words, if somebody brought me in the night before, if James, if Jon Favreau had brought me in and said, could you just give this script a read and let me know you know is it?

Can you do just do a rewrite what you want. Right around the time when Peter Dinklice beats the shit out of Will Ferrell, and all is lost. You know, the thing that was supposed to save them has now been ruined by Buddy and his elfness. What you want right around that time is for him to also do something in his naivete, his sweet naivete that kind of ruins something for Mary Stein Virgin and kind of messes up something for his brother and kind of maybe even ruins a little something for Jovie, for Zoe Deschanel's character, where you're sort of like, oh, the bloom is off the rose. Everyone was cool with Buddy, but now it's a little bit too much, and now when he leaves, and it's sort of like I've ruined everything and he does away, and if you in the text have introduced the notion of have we lost our Christmas spirit, which no one really talks about in this movie structurally and on the page, a situation where everyone needs to be redeemed.

Now, ultimately everyone does get redeemed, but they're getting it's sort of a payoff without a setup, and the sense that you know, humanity in general needs to rejoin its belief in something, which ultimately is Santa Claus, because he's the one who needs that emotion to fly his sleigh. Well, we haven't really been shown that or given that. The third act of the movie gets by, to quote Susan on goodwill alone, it's got such a store of goodwill that will forgive it almost anything, and we'll forgive it this too, and I forgive it. But it's trying to a shoplift emotion it hasn't quite earned. I have not gone through this movie with a feeling that, oh, we do live in a world where people have lost their faith in Christmas.

Really only James con has. Everyone else is kind of a solid citizen, and I would happily have a Christmas party with any one of them. But at the end it's like, well, now we got to be a Christmas movie, and it starts doing a lot and saying a lot and trying to justify a lot that hasn't really been set up and hasn't been earned. All Right, I've said it. It's been read into the court record that Richard Hadham does not thoroughly approve of ELF's third act.

I will now conclude my arguments and and take the cast and crew out to lunch. Wow, you're like the Central Park Rangers. You're bringing it down. Just come on in and attack everybody. Yeah, for no reason.

There's a war on Santa folks. I don't know if you've heard about it. It's starting for some. Reason, not for no reason, but for for no reason that essentially will matter to people who enjoy the movie. And and like again, we just we meet characters we've never seen, like Charlotte the TV reporting goal like it could would like and and we're invested in her story in some ways.

She's telling us events that are happening and giving context to them. And you know, and it's fun. Again, you're just delighted at this point. But it's right. And the you know, the Zoey de Chanel getting up and singing in public, I mean, that's such a gossomer little setup.

On no level are we led to be invested in her singing career or her feelings about singing in public. On no level are we given reason to feel true victory when this happens. It's on paper and then she pays it off, but we're sort of like, okay, okay, that's fine, that's fine, that's fine. What is still singing together? I still tear up?

Shush now, you're ruining. Smile to yourself, are you, Rod? You got any issues with the movie act? Everybody's problems are the same. It's really that's most movies for me.

I even the movies that I love, Usually the third actor is where things sort of there's just not a it's so tough to pull it off. It's still I mean, this is still an a movie for me. I can revisit it and not be bored by it. It's so well written. It's you know, it probably had six seven screenwriters it worked credited.

I'm sure. Yeah, it's a fair. It's a fair. It's a fair. Amount the even even just all the Favreau's casting of people like Amy Sedaris, Andy Richter.

Yeah, yeah, all these great people in these small roles. Kyle Gas, I mean, I of love, love love those people. Artie Lang maybe not so much, but that's okay. I'll let him have it. I love Artie, but I get it.

Artie Lang is a he's a bit much as the man is. You know. It's okay, though he's playing an asshole Santa Claus of all things. It works right. Rod brings up the third act of a lot of movies, and one of my favorite movies.

People famously complain again academically about the about the third act of Raiders of the Lost Arc because they make the very valid argument that Indiana Jones's participation in the movie ultimately does not change anything. The Nazis get the Lost Arc and they open it, which they would have done regardless, and they would have been melted a regardless. So in a way it's like, well, he didn't really change the outcome of anything, But I'll watch that movie every night of my life and love every second of it. Now, my rebuttal to that shit is just the Nazis would have gone back and got the Arc anyways, because that wasn't the only group of Nazis that they said. And that's the true that's the answer, and end the story.

Late what, Well, I don't understand. The Nazis knew that they were sending the Arc to that island to open it. That's why they didn't open it in Berlin. They mentioned it in the movie, So the Nazis knew they were sending someone with an ARC to go open it. So the answer to that is, well, the Nazis would have just gone and been like, what the fuck happened?

Here and then just take's. Like died, the pillar would have died the moar would have done it because every fucking Nazi would be so crazed with the desire for power that they would all open the ark and they would all go. So anyway, it's a better ending to them. Well, no, but what we're saying is he you know again, it's not like Indy, you know, got the arc away and then we used it to win the war or something, which would have been ridiculous. Now, now there are other movies where the third act does not disappoint, And of course I'll bring up my other favorite movie, die Hard, where the third act is actually one of the highlights because everything that happens in it is a logical extension of everything that's happened before and a well earned payoff up to and including the insane reappearance of Alexander Goudenoff.

And if we're talking Christmas movies, don't stop me for talking about Diehard, who suddenly shows up and you're like, wait what, But then when Reginald Valve Johnson puts him down, you're like, well, but that paid off a character that we have spent a lot of time with and totally understand his story and totally get this payoff. So you know, per now there's a perfect film anyway. All of which is to say, but not nearly. It's charming, but not nearly as charming as Elf. Alan.

If it had been Alan Rickman doing an American accent the entire movie, it would have been just as charming. His mind readings are still good. Oh you're one of them. Okay, down, Bruce. Willis as an Elf and Alan Rickman as his dad.

Hey and Buddy the Elf come to the North Pole. We okay, shuts, Oh, very good, Frega, Hey, you know what. But but all of this, all of this falls back on a Hollywood truism, which is, like I said before, a stellar performance can save a movie and can make it worth a rewatch, even if not every last element of the movie is running on all cylinders the way that performance is. And I think that's what Elf is, and I will continue to watch Elf every Christmas. I don't forget I was the one who chose this movie.

Jesus Christ, Hell, give the guy credit, all right. I've never seen and probably will never see the animated special that they made NBC made with this for the Elf Yeah, with Jim Parsons is the voice of Buddy, No, thank you. No look well. And it's interesting because you know, there's also. A musical version of it more inclined to watch that.

I wouldn't either like in some ways. Fair feeling to my head. The musical well, yeah, go. Ahead, I mean I have no interest in those. And I'm also even though this made a ton of money, I'm surprised they never made a sequel.

I'm kind of glad they didn't because it would not have been as good. I mean, let's be honest. And apparently it's because John Fevreaux and Will Ferrell really disliked each other, which is interesting. I've always won. They've never talked about it.

Only James Kahn is reds talk to Look. At Richard's face, It's like you just found out Santa Claus isn't real. I know, I had never heard that. That is so disappointed to me. Right, But yet at what they make, it's it's.

A consummate profession. Well, and I'm gonna give John, I'm going to give Jon Favreau a lot of credit because it is a performance that makes this movie. And yet it's also a consistent tone. So you you because you have earned so it earns so much goodwill because of that performance, but also because of everybody else's performance around. And that's hard, right, Zoey Deschanel, from from from her to even James Kahn to Mary Steinbergen to like the little kid in the office.

It's like everybody has to react to him just the right level of confusion and interest. Yeah. And the music. Yeah, so it's it's I actually think and I think he was very very smart to to not go cynical, to to make this movie incredibly heartfelt and incredibly sincere and incredibly about the joy of Christmas and when. And it is sort of stunning that this was I think you know that this was shot in two thousand and two in New York.

That's yeah. I think it was shot to be a thing of hope. A love letter to New York City, of all places. He trying to end my own podcast. Here, had him, I don't know what you're talking to, know, you're.

What are you? You get ahead of steam and you think you own the joint? Had him? You let Satan in your house? No, I pretty much did.

I literally invited you on. I made the mistake myself. You're right, I mean good news. I saw dog today, That's what I think. Oh brilliant.

Yeah, I mean so many lines, so many lines. Kids, kids, they're already vulnerable like shit like that, like such weird things for adults to say. But yet somehow they're very endearing and weird but funny at the same time. And thanks that I think I won't like again, Like I'm not sure. I love the speed up of the snowball fighting yeah, because it feels out of character to the rest of the filt and like it feels he can do super super amazing things because he's been raised by elves, so he could do things really fast, but not as fast as elves, but faster than humans.

So that's cool. But that like sort of really obvious moving mechanic always feels wrong to me. And yet I still love and it doesn't make any sense either. But the evil snowball punks in Central Park that like and then they have to take that's how they bond. I there's just again it's it feels like it's not to so many crisps.

It really does feel like a love letter. To a different time. And and and but but still staying modern, right, It's it's not trying to say it's a better time. It's trying to take the beautifulness of human connection and and remind us we can do it now. Even in so uh Rod, it's just the last thought, you know, the willingness to put in the touches of surrealism, like the Rank and Bass type animation like that, that's genius and it you know, it.

Just feels natural throughout the whole even no, it's not, you know, they don't return to it. Really, it's just an odd touch, and I love that there are those odd touches throughout and it somehow all works even though that exists on a different plane of common uh you know, straight one liner. Or or Peter Dinkliche kicking Will Ferrell's ass again, Like but you brought it up so many times, Richard, Like this is a movie where Peter Dinklage beats the shit out of Will Ferrell, and we are I again like are we we're laughing along with with what's going on. We feel bad for Will Ferrell, like he's getting what he deserves. Like the movie does such a good job at being his story all the way through.

You just feel bad for him, even though he kind of had it coming. He brought it on himself. But you feel bad for him even though there's no reason you should because he totally brought it on himself. It's honestly for me, You know what, the most unbelievable part of this entire goddamn movie is James con must be the worst children's publishing person period. How did he not look at his son and just go, this is the story.

This is the story. It's a man who's an elf. This is not the story we should be telling. Like why do we need Peter Dinklice here at all? Like the whole movie should have just been him trying to convince Buddy that he needs the rights to his life story because at the end of the movie, isn't that the conceit?

They're like, and then they wrote. A book about it, like right, Like his dad must be the worst at his job too, because the moment he saw his adult child who was raised by L's he should have been like that's the idea for the book. Like it's not about vegetables, it's not about potatoes or pears or peaches. What's more vulnerable than a peach? Like I don't know Andy Richter, who says the line was such confidence in conviction.

It the third act isn't great, but the third act would have been better if they had leaned more into for my piece on the third act, if they had leaned more into the things that the first act and second act did so well, which the third act is more about the meaning of the season. And it's like, aren't there other movies out there already doing this that this movie is better than already And it's kind of it's almost it almost feels like and again like not to say that the movies that do this aren't elevated, but doesn't it almost feel like it's beneath this movie to go out of its way to be like Christmas exists in Santa exists, Like no, we know movie, like we get it, like it's this it is because it is in my mind, because this movie is telling a different story that's much more important than just does Christmas exist or nothing?

But especially given that it's set in New York City in two thousand and one. Two, Okay, so we'll go into extra intings. Uh, when you when you're when you're doing a genre, you respect the rules of the genre. And one of the rules of the Christmas genre has to do with and they do that again, the glancing blows, they they they pay lip service to it. In terms of James con he has a transformation.

It happens very quickly. It happens almost with no diagnosable reason other than his son, his younger son, who's always been there. But okay, but when you're doing a genre and you're doing it really well, we don't mind that you also collect the low hanging fruit of the genre, as Diehard does for its genre, and it's how all the great Christmas movies do for their genre. We don't resent them for circling back and saying the things that most, if not all Christmas movies say, which is, don't don't let the lesson of the season escape you. Don't let a year go by where you let the lessons of the season and the holiday escape you, because it will, it will shave off degrees of your humanity that not one of us can afford.

Those were some extra innings worth pitching. So and we're only halfway through this month. Yeah boy, aren't we? So starting with you. Got Scrooge coming baby, Starting with.

You Susan and then you, Rod and then Richard. Final thoughts on ELF. You know it's always worth watching. It's a Christmas perennial and well worth it. Also, we didn't really talk about the other comedy genius in this movie, Bob Newhart.

I love Bob new that guy, God bless him. I hate that he's gone, but he It brought me so much joy to see him in this the first time. And it's like I wish, I mean now because this movie people you know and other generations who bob mehard is that's me just feels my heart because that guy deserves. To be nit I. So I'm so glad you said that, Rod, thank you for saying that.

I for that matter, and I was so regretting there was never a scene between the two of them, which for me would have been Mary Tyler Moore Production's gold. That's in the delete that's in the deleted scenes. That's probably on the cutting room floor. I don't know. I mean, I mean, if you told me there's a scene I could see the twitter two of them, I would leave the podcast now and go watch it.

I believe that. I believe that up to Infini film DBD is that what that new line cinema? I remember that? Yeah, when they pop it in during the movie. Yeah, boy those What about you?

Richard? You you've heard my wrap up? Okay? Uh? Yeah, you know this season has been This season has not been great for me pers and that has been something that I have not talked about publicly because I don't bother other people with my problems.

But this season has been one of those seasons where the embracing of things that are important has felt more important because it feels like I'm leaning on that more and so and that's why I was kind of like, this reminds me of when Mike White of you know, Ranking on Bond and the Projection Booth and so many other great podcasts you can find over at weirdingwaymedia dot com. Uh when he thank you? Uh when he programmed in March of twenty twenty post apocalyptic Russian films like like post apocalyptic films made by Russian directors. It's like, Mike, he picked it before the pandemic happened, but holy shit, he couldn't have picked a more like man you cut me out at the knees thing, and Richard, it kind of feels like you cut me out at the knees this year of all year, because it's like we're going from like divorce Dad, Divorced Mom movie to you know, not divorce Dad, but Negligent Parent movie to Scrooge, which is.

Gonna be teaching the rich that they need to be eaten. So and keep in mind, the joke of all this is we we scheduled all this a year a. Year ago, right, which is why it's like with Mike White March that year, it was like, oh my god, Mike picked a hell of a thing ahead of time, and now the same thing. All of that to say, every time I watch ELF, and I would say like, well, you know whatever, I cry all the time. I have no problem admitting it.

I cry on the daily. And that was before everything happened. Elf is a movie that makes me cry every time I watch, every single mother fucking time. It's the scene. So it's the scene.

It's the scene that we've talked about where James Khn just like does. The one eighty and is like, you know, fuck you whatever, I'm going to get my son whatever. It's that. I don't know what it is about James CON's perform To your point, Richard like, it's a little I don't know, I don't know what it is about it. It gets me every time.

And that's the one part of the movie that like, will get me every time I want. And for me, watching a movie about people going on a transformative journey that again maybe waited their entire lives to get to that point or put it off or what have you, to then watch them change again. To your point, Richard and Susan and Rod, it's the restoring in faith of humanity of it all that the season kind of tends to be about, you know. And so for me, Elf is an almost perfect movie. But I think it is the last modern Christmas classic that we have, like it is the last one that has come out, and so actually Richard had them.

Because our two dear guests won't be joining us again for the rest of the month, I will kick it to Susan first and then Rod. Susan. Other than the things that Richard. Bombards your household with, what is another Christmas movie that you would suggest people check out at this time of year again, Christmas movie or holiday movie? Given that, I would say at this point we're kind of in post Christmas movies and now I would say it's more holiday and Christmas is a very narrow band within it.

If there is a holiday and or or Christmas movie, And then Rod, the same question will be going to you. Sure you had an entire month, had him hours of content, devote it to the movies. I know what she's gonna say, He's afraid I'm gonna mention a movie that he hates with a white hot passion, even though he has no reason to, and in fact he's wrong. But I'm going to first say that we're supposed to talk about love. Actually, yes I are, that's true.

You're right, But to be fair, to be fair, this was an unannounced This was less announced than it was. Not No, not not love. Actually the fact that you were joining us was kind of a late addition. It was it was, and I'm very glad that you. Thank you.

And I also do the movie that Richard is afraid of because it's the it's the sort of story, opposite of character, opposite of his favorite movie, Scrooge is It's a wonderful life. You were going to say, and it's. The Jimmy Well, you know it is the and talk about an actor that makes the movie. I I give you a month, I know when I give you a month, what one of the things may be just out of pocket. I know what I may sign myself up for.

I'm not complaining, but I know, like it might be a month of Jimmy Stewart, it might be a month. I have never seen that movie, by the way. Well, and here's the thing. Richard HadAM hates it because it's about a guy who who who puts off for other people what he wants to do in order to help his town, to help the people he loves. And then it has a dark knight of the soul when he's about to lose his life and savings and livelihood and so he's like, it's not worth it, and then of course is visited by just one angel and learns some powerful lesson.

I have an issue with Scrooge and Christmas Carol. It's like, oh, okay, we're going to send three whole ghosts to the rich asshole and try to convince him to stop being a rich asshole, which he will only on threat of death, and he's going to die and go to Hell. And then he goes, oh wait, no, I do love Christmas and I will help people, and suddenly, at the very last minute, the richual white man gets to say, oh, sorry, Jesus, yeah, I'll be saved from hell at the last minute. I love Scrooge that said, and I love Christmas Carol, but I would argue that the story Christmas Carol is telling it Certainly when it gets told in movies, it becomes a pretty simple, stupid tale of a man not Actually, I've never bought Scrooges flip around for any other reason for other than saving zone.

You don't get to respond to that one, HadAM. You get to keep that one for next time. Rod, What about you? I go, yeah, Richard, you can address that on the Scrooge episode. Yeah what about you?

Rod? Well, Obviously it's Kurt Cameron saving Christmas. Oh Jesus Christ, Jesus fucking Christ, as Kirk Cameron would say. Okay, so Christmas movie, I'm gonna recommend one that people probably have not seen. In fact, a lot of people probably haven't even heard of it.

But if you like National Lampun's Christmas Vacation, and most people do, there is a sort of a Canadian version called Cooper's Christmas. It is made by Jason Jones and Samantha Bee of you know they're married in real life but of the Daily Show. Okay, they play a husband and wife in this and it's like set in the eighties and it's Dave Folly is in it, and it's just, well, it's. Gotta be a Canadian comedy film if Dave Folly dysfunctional? Hard are Christmas movie with infidelity, vomiting, correcs, all sorts of Shenanigan.

But it is. It makes me laugh so hard, and I you know, it's not to everyone's taste, but if you like dark comedy, uncomfortable comedy, Cooper's Christmas also known in Canada's Cooper's Camera. But Cooper's Christmas is the better type. And as we all know, Canadians don't celebrate Christmas. So that's what I was told anyways.

Isn't that weird for a country that's white called the Great White North, they just don't celebrate Christmas. Strange, strangest thing. I have once again no suggestions, but I will once again be reiterating I will not be watching the Santa Claus this year for Christmas. I think I said it on the Miracle on thirty fourth Street episode. I'll say it again here, not watching the Divorced Dad becomes Santa Claus movie this year.

Let's just put it that way. I'm good. So yeah, Rod, right now, it's really funny. Yeah. So on that note, we'll take a break, we'll play some ads, the most important thing of all, and then we'll play the preview for the next culture cast.

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Please join us as we examine one of the greatest sitcoms in television history, Taxi on Night mister Walters at Taxi Podcast. Good night, mister Walters, Good evening, and welcome to Night Gallery. Thank you. Rod and I want to welcome everyone to Midnight Viewing, where once a month we talk all about your follow up to the Twilight Zone, Rod Serling's Night Gallery. They say it's Rod Serling's Night Gallery, and it isn't really rod Zelis Night Gallery.

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Com doesn't remotely belong to me. I have no proprietary interest in that at all. That's Father Christmas. I'm playing and find a Christmas. I'm back.

I hate people, not a humber. There is no such thing as rich enough. I paid you. I will repent. You don't believe in me?

Do you? No? I can't. We are going to look at your past. Got are more good things in this last cruise, and you can possibly imagine Christmas nearby.

Let's go and up with their top. I've discovered I life. Go bless us. Everybody that's right on the next episode, we're gonna be talking about the movie. Richard just mentioned Scrooge a musical.

Yeah, I can't wait to talk about it. And I'm really glad this is not going to be here so I can just bloviate uninterrupted. Steal yourself, steal yourself, had him. Your day to interject will come until then Rod, starting with you, and then Susan and then Richard. Where can people find you?

You can find me at flick Attack dot com. Buy my book, Lick Attack Movie Arsenal Book one. What a great Christmas gift to those of your friends and family who can read. And I'm currently working too, so that'll be out hopefully sometime in twenty twenty five. And I hope to God people have friends that can read, because if you don't maybe introduce them to the concept, things might be different, you know what I mean?

Speaking of that, Susan. You can find myself and my co host Sharon at Eighties tv Ladies A zero S, t V L A D I E S dot com, or at Eighties tv Ladies on all the social media's and podcast platforms. And you can find me at Susan Lambertadam dot com and done various social places whatever. But yeah, that's me. Go ahead, Richard, and you can find me on Richard Hadam's Paranormal Bookshelf.

That's my podcast on any podcast platform you like. Check it out. I would love it if you joined us there. We have a lot of fun. I have a such a good product idea for you to sell to your patrons right now that you are going to thank me.

And I'm not even gonna mention it here. It's such a good idea and you didn't even think about it. I'm ashamed of you not thinking about it. When I say it, Susan's gonna be like, holy shit, this is the best idea ever. But wait, I wait, hold on.

I thought about the calendar to do the twenty twenty sixth calendar. What if you had like little versions of yourself that you could have people put on their bookshelves, like an elf on the shelf, but like A had them for your bookshelf with. Like a bobblehead. Maybe because that like I mean, like I had them on a shelf, you know what I mean? Because your name of your podcast is literally Richard Hadam's Paranormal Bookshelf.

Would someone not want a little see, just get. We got twelve months to get it for you and. Then you can Yeah, and it can be haunted. We're gonna tell people it's haunted. Yeah.

Yeah, haven't been made out of like wood like have like, but only have a certain amount and charge a certain amount for that level, so you're guaranteed money. This is the dirty part that nobody wants to talk about, and this is the part that I cut out. But yeah, if you want to find out the things that. I work on that aren't just giving people free ideas so that they can make money off of them, which seems to be a thing that I like to do. You can listen to this show and weirding Way Media's other assorted audio diversions over weirdingwaymedia dot com, where you can find Susan and Sharon show eightestv Ladies, which is one awards two years in a gonna win three years in a row.

And that's, by the way, three years that the podcast has been around, so that means they've won an award every year. That's amazing. I haven't won an. Award yet so for the third year, but. I appreciate the good said.

Yeah, well, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I put the we I believe you believe, Yeah, I do. I am. I want to be not unimpeachable and unassailable like Ted Lasso, but maybe more like Buddy Yo. So we have done our seventieth Good God.

I remember when it was just an idea that you have, and now it's a thing. So say what, Richard, I'm proud of everybody that I would. You know what. We don't say that enough for each other, So I'm proud of everybody. I say this on every episode of the show.

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That's where you can find them, and uh, we'll catch you on the next episode. Thank you so much.