Khal Nayak

We wait. So, Josh, when I put the kind of call out to the guest host for the year on the Culture Cast, I kind of give everybody the opportunity to pick movies and or at least pick from the things that I've kind of picked. And if memory serves, I believe this was one that you picked to be on specifically. I'm assuming, like I said, if memory serves, you'll tell me otherwise here in a second. But I am very curious before we kind of get into the movie as it were on this episode of the Culture Cast, why what animated you about this movie to join me for this episode to talk about it, because it is not a short movie and there is a lot going on.

I have a history with this film. Actually, when I was programming at Fantastic Fest back in twenty sixteen, we did an Indian genre film sidebar and kyl Knyak was one of the films that I showed in that year's film program and I really really love it. It was the process of getting the film, Getting any film from India for festival programming, especially older films, is a special and unique kind of challenge, and this one was was a fun one. Actually not not a miserable one like they usually are. But it just it does everything that you want, you know, a Hindi Indi action film to do.

It has the action, it has the romance and song and dance and crazy side plots and all kinds of stuff and you know it's it's a good time. And so I've already seen it four or five times and then you know, any excuse to watch it again was was okay with me? And to your point on this episode of the Culture Cast, I am still your host, Christash you and I'm joined by my good friend all the way from Korean Anarchy's own Josh her Toddo. To your point, on this episode, we are talking about a movie that you have a little bit of history with and I don't have any history with before talking about it called Nayak So. The film is came out in nineteen ninety three.

It's directed by Subhash Guy, written by Suphash Guy, Ram Kalar and am Lesh Hondi and its stars well who Sonjay Dutt and Jackie Shroff. Sanjay Dutt is the titular villain of the film, Balu, who gets arrested and then he escapes and then he falls in love with Jackie Shroff's girlfriend. Jackie Shroff is a police officer and his girlfriend is a police There's a lot going on, and if I tried to just describe it all at once, it'll probably seem very convoluted, not saying the movie's convoluted, but to your point, there is a lot going on. So before we kind of get any further into the movie, Josh tell me a little bit about rewatching it sixth or seventh time, possibly for this episode of the Culture Cast.

You know, it's I having seen it several times, I knew basically what to expect, but it had been I don't think I've watched it since the Fantastic Best screenings, and that was almost eight years ago, so it's been a minute. And it was just sort of reacquainting myself with the specificity of the film, the specific moments and and things like that that I've forgotten. Sanji Diok puts in a solid performance here. Jackie Schwaff also there's there's a lot of little performances throughout the film that I really enjoyed. I put it on, you know, first thing in the morning on a Sunday, So that was really, as we were talking before you start recording, I K never stop watching movies when I'm not working, and so the only way to make sure I get something in is if I do it as soon as I wake up, And so that was the plan for this one, and you know it was.

It was cool. Actually, I do even have some some notes as we go through about some very odd differences between the Amazon Video or an Amazon Prime stream and the DCP that I showed all those years ago. There's some subtitling differences that are actually fairly significant in terms of, you know, the themes of the film and stuff like that and just sort of iconic moments. But yeah, I enjoyed watching it all over again. I had a really good time with it.

So you've kind of already you know, mentioned the reason that I picked this movie would would be the lead, Sanjay, who I had not seen him in a whole lot as the lead, but I had seen the remake of Ognipoth, which I mean, again, I'm not saying that it's better than the original, but it also make it makes it makes a case where I could I could actually get behind that. I mean, look, the original is great for different reasons than the remake is, and I think that that kind of justifies its existence as if it's doing something different. And Sanjay Dutz's character in that movie is the reason you watch that movie because he is a To say he's a presence on screen would be under selling what he does in that movie.

And I had not seen him as the lead in anything until this, And I understand now why he is cast in the things that he's cast in now and the reason why people would watch the movies that he's in because he is and has been a presence on screen since nineteen ninety three. And Ognipov comes out long after this movie the remake does, and so I again, it's not I had actually seen more Tiger Schroff movies than Jackie Shroff movies, which, yeah, this is an audio medium, folks, But if you saw Josh Smirking just now, it's because Jackie Shroff is a great actor. Tiger Schroff, on the other hand, I'm not saying he's bad, but I haven't had a lot of nice things to say about most of the movies of his that I've seen.

Unfortunately, I think they're kind of messy movies, and I'm not sure that Tigerschrov isn't to blame, but I don't think he's contributing to the movie going in the right direction. But all that to say, I actually enjoyed this movie. I think it's a little long in the way that some Indian cinema tends to be in terms of wrapping itself in on itself, like four or five times over. I think this movie kind of does that. This movie is one hundred and ninety one minutes, so it's just over three hours long, and I think that it at times it makes use of the time, and I think at other times it kind of, just like I said, like tons of other Indian cinema movies and just cinema in general, adds too much to the pot and then kind of doesn't necessarily make something of everything.

It kind of makes two or three things of everything. So I think for me, I enjoyed this movie. Is it a movie that I would come back to. Yes, for a couple specific reasons that we will get to. But it is an interesting movie.

And to your point about older movies being hard to get a hold of, this movie seems like the kind of movie that if people had seen it in the nineties, they'd be talking about this the same way they talk about John Wu films, Like this has that twinge of like, they're not doing this in the States. They're not doing this kind of movie in the States at the time, And if people in the States had seen this movie, they would have been like, Oh my god, I need to see more Jackie Shroff and Sanjay Dutt films. And that wasn't the case. But when the John Wu movies came to the United States, Oh, I need to see more you know, chow Yun Fat movies, or when Jackie Chan's movies came to the States only like like a year after this, if not the same year, those movies were being kind of regarded as nobody's doing this in the States right now.

So this is worth watching. And for me, this feels like one of those movies that should have been talked about in the nineties as kind of pushing action into an interesting direction, which this movie really does in mid Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's it's definitely got Having shown it to to non Indian audiences a couple of times, it always got a positive reaction. We have people that were really really enjoying it and and uh then and enjoying it in in a way that is uh, you know, non ironic that it's just it's a it's a it's a big fun movie. I mean there it goes in a lot of really weird places, but all those places are places that, you know, a certain type of adventurous film Tram wants to go.

Right. So let's kind of talk about the plot a little bit. So we have Jackie Shroff playing Inspector Ram, and then we have Sanjay Dutt playing Ballu. So Balu is the villain of the piece. He's he's arrested early on in the film, and then we kind of have this battle of wills between Balu and Ram, who are apparently, unbeknownst to either one of them, friends from childhood as well.

And so the movie is really about Ram and Ballu and the kind of intricacies of their relationship and how they're navigating the world that they live in. And then you add in Madhari Dixon. She plays Ganga, who ends up being the love interest for both characters, which I think is where kind of a lot of the interesting play between the characters comes from. Is her character in the way that she plays off of the two of them. But you have a love triangle, and then you have a you have Balu's mother who's introduced into the to the mix both at the beginning of the film and then she shows up throughout the film as kind of another outside force.

And you also have Anupam Kerr in the film. There's so much going on, it's it's hard to kind of keep track of everything because the movie is just kind of moving at a breakneck pace on top of everything else. I mean, it doesn't really stop a whole lot to kind of not let the characters breathe, but there is a lot going on and the movie is constantly moving, and that for me is pretty crazy, given that the movie's three in eight you know, three hours and ten minutes long. Yeah, yeah, I don't think it will waste a whole lot of time there. You know, there are always things could be cut out of these films.

But then I try and think back of what I would be okay missing, and there's really not a lot like they're you know, for every extra few minutes, there's always something within those few minutes that makes it the movie special. I think. So let's talk a little bit about the early scene, so early on in the movie, they take Sanjay Dutz bollow into a room and they're like, hey, who is it. You know, we're going to present you with someone from your gang, and you know, the scene kind of does not go in the direction I thought it was going to go at all, And I think it's a really early interesting look at kind of the level at which this movie is going to use violence, because again, kind of to your point, the level of violence in this movie is not unheard of at this time in Indian cinema.

I mean, this is that there were movies like this in the early nineties doing this level of violence. But I really appreciate kind of how far this movie is willing to go and showing the lengths that Sonjay Dutz character is willing to go. And I like that we to see that he is willing to go as far as it takes to protect himself and what he finds to be important to the moment of killing someone in front of the police, which I mean, the scene is pretty intense, and again, Sanjay Doutt is the reason why it's intense, because he has an intensity as an actor that I think he really conveys through his eyes for the most part. I mean he's he's not like six foot five. I think he's barely six feet tall if that.

But for a man who's not six feet tall, he takes up any space that he's in with a physical presence. That again is they do a lot with it in this movie. Yeah, I mean, he he's one of the sort of freambo action guys at this point in you know, Bollywood action films, there's him around the same time. You've also got Sunny Deal, who is a similar least just sort of a big burly guy in the In the shortly after the sequence you're talking about, sange Gout squares off with Jackie Shroff and they both they they end up like ripping each other's ripping their shirts off to show how manly they are, and you know, it's it's it's hilarious in in a couple of ways because they're not their bodies are not particularly well defined physiques.

They're just big burly dudes and they're just kind of throwing each other around. Like you said, Sanja Dot has these like these sleepy eyes that are that are hard to look away from, whereas Schroff, Jackie Shroff has a more direct sort of uh directness about him. But yeah, the the levels of violence they're willing to go to, and the you know, the the idea of this this uh anti hero character that Sandi did eventually sort of morphs into as the film progresses. We're we're not common. At the time, there was a lot of black and white, uh you know morality going on, and this is a little gray.

This movie's pretty gray all the way through, and I I appreciate that about the movie because to your point, I mean, having ostensibly the hero of our movie murdering someone in the first fifteen minutes. Again, I'm not saying it was unjust, but he's murdering him to essentially cover his own ass because this guy has decided to start talking to the police about everything that's going on in the gang. I mean, again, it's not that a lot of movies like this don't pivot to make this person the hero, but it's kind of a pretty far swing of the pendulum back the other way, given where he kind of ends up by the end of the movie where everybody's kind of patting him on the back and we'll wait for you to get out of prison pal, like you're doing the right thing.

Like that is a pretty far removed step from the guy who chokes someone out in front of the police in the first fifteen minutes of the movie. But to your point, like the fact that they can actually get there reasonably I think is pretty impressive. Yeah, yeah, I they you know, Sebash guy does a lot with this character, and Sanja DoD Is is an interesting as a as an actor, as a person outside of the film. Also, he was sort of embroiled in a lot of legal issues as the film was releasing, and just before the film, you know, came out. He was arrested right before the film came out in a case that followed him for twenty years, and in fact, he was in prison for you know, a couple of years the first part of this last decade for crimes committed in the immediate run up to Kyle Lyyke's release, So it took a long time for that's to happened.

So he's got he's got a checkered history, and it kind of it plays into this image of him as the antihero and then eventually as the villain as we see him in Inognia Pass in twenty twelve and as this sort of you know, quintessential you know, badass who's often on the wrong side of the law, but he's charismatic enough that he makes it work well. And that I mean, the charisma is obviously what he has in spades, and that's you know, Gongga falls in love with him. I can like I can't. I can't tell if she actually falls in love with him or or if it's just all unrequited from his end to her. I guess she kind of feels for him again.

Get it's like the way the movie is written, I feel like you could feel either way about it. I mean, you have to have him buying into her to get to the kind of emotional climax of the movie. But I never get the sense that she's as invested in him as he is in her, which I think is kind of what the movie is wanting us to take away from their interactions, because you're still meant to believe that her and Jackie Shroff by the end of the movie will be together. But I don't know. Sanjay Dutch just he is like the love sick puppy in this movie kind of works in humanizing him as a character and kind of taking that villainous edge off where you can kind of look at him as kind of more sad and pathetic more than kind of outright villainous.

I mean again, he does murder someone in the first fifteen minutes of the movie, but feels like the movie is doing everything in its power the next two hours and fifteen minutes to walk the moment back in a way or at least have him evolved. I mean, there are sequences later on once he and gang are are sort of hooked up and you know, in his mind at least on the run from the law together where there's a sequence where they stumble upon a village in the midst of voting and there's a sort of gangster who has taken control of the voting in order to make sure that he controls this this small town, and Sashi dots Balu shows up and doesn't want to get in the way of anything, but ends up sort of saving the town in this like heroic way, kind of on accident, and you can sort of see how his even though Gunga knows that he's a criminal, you could see her softening towards him, and it is I mean, I in my opinion, I feel like she's always sort of she's always with Ram and she knows that she's doing this for work, but she you know, can't sort of she can't help, you know, at least growing sympathies towards him as she goes through this journey with him to whatever ends until they're finally able to capture him at the at the end of the film, or hoping to capture him at the end of the film.

But she does see a different, a different Balluan than she you know, initially had planned on trapping, you know. And what's interesting and again like not not to be skipping around here, but again the character of Balu, the way the way that they end up showing his evolution of a character, it does kind of go back to Again, I mentioned John Wu because it reminds me a little bit of John Wu, where it's like, okay, we have the backstory being told through flashback now and again. Indian Cinema does the flashback all the time, sometimes flashbacks within flashbacks, which is even more fun, which doesn't make any sense, but well, sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't. But oftentimes it's a flashback within a flashback of a character who couldn't be knowing these things.

But in this movie, the way the flashback is used to kind of justify why Balu is the way that he is reminded me of a Better Tomorrow, those that series of John Wu films where it's all very like. The level of connection between the characters in this movie feels Shakespearean in a way, right that Am and Balu have known about each other and been ostensibly friends question mark since they were children like that that's not even made apparent until what the third act of the movie, in the last forty minutes of the goddamn movie, and it would have been I'm not saying it would have been nice to know that early on, but I think the way the movie waits to show you that helps recontextualize some of the movie for me at least.

But I also think in a lot of ways it's the movie not necessarily playing fair either, because the way the characters interact early on, it doesn't make it seem like they know each other at all, even though again, are they supposed to know that? I can't figure out. Are they supposed to know that they know each other and the audience doesn't know that? Or they don't know that either. I don't believe that they know that they remember Ryan.

They are to one another until Balu's mother make say clear to them in the third act of the film. But I mean, if you it's many, many, many films from you know, the eighties and nineties were like solo star vehicles and this is it's this is nominally a sane dive film, but they do have, you know, these sort of two handed leads, and I think this is it's fair to call Jackie Stroff as close to a co lead as you could get without sharing equal screen time. You know, you've also got miss the same kind of evolution of these two characters as we had with Triple R a couple of years ago, where you have these two characters who are you know, who are nemeses and friends and secret nemeses and secret friends. And you know, you've got another film that came out, One of my other favorite films that came out around this time.

I think it's a couple of years later, is Karen Argen. Karen Argen, which is Shark Ghan and Selman Khan, who play reincarnated twins. They were twins who got killed and they reincarnate separately and then rEFInd each other in their new lives you know, later on. And that's another sort of two handed action film. But it's it's not terribly uncommon for for this kind of thing to happen in these films.

But I think it's it's handled pretty well here that both the characters essentially travel their ownn paths for the vast majority of the film, Like, they don't interact directly except at the very beginning in the very end, right, which which leaves them both time to to evolve their their you know, their emotional states, to involve their characters, to have you know, these these full lives outside of one another, so that when they do inevitably meet up and have to to you know, fight it out, we know more about them. Uh. We we know about them as more than just nemesis of one another. We know about them as characters, you know. Right.

It's good well, and and to your point, I mean the the fact that the film keeps them away from each other through most of the run time. I mean, I think they have what to two fight scenes, because they fight in the prison and they fight in the trees, which I think the fight of the trees is just wild. I mean, that's the reason I love these kinds of movies is because they just go for it and they don't fucking care. Like they're like, we're gonna have guys fighting in a tree, and if we can make it work cool. If we can't make it work cool, but we're gonna figure out a way to make it look interesting at least, And that's where this movie kind of comes in.

But to your point, keeping them separate but allowing us to understand why they are the way that they are, and then finally bringing them together in the third act of the movie is really smart. Do I wish that we had kind of known the intricacies of their relationship earlier than the third act maybe, But at the same time, to your point, like, this is kind of a two lead movie, so it's kind of has to be this way to give either of them enough time to really count as a lead. For either point, I mean, they both have to be given effectively an hour hour and a half of their own movies to then be brought back together at the end for the the third act of the movie that they're both in is kind of what it feels like they almost have separate movies for an hour and change each Yeah.

Yeah, well connected, you know through mostly phone calls between Ganga and Ram right where it's They do some clever things with that, like when immediately after. So probably for for most people who are who are fans of this film and for people from UH, for for Indian film fans who would have seen us back in the day, that one of the most enduring and popular parts of this film is the uh the song Cholikipeche where where mother Addiction is dancing and is you know, scoping out and you know, trying to find Balu after she and Ram have concocted this plow and how she's going to go undercover and and bring them in, and the Choli Kippeche dances is. It's a very elaborate sort of cabaret number that they do.

And this is one of the things where the SubTime we were screwed up, not not screwed up because they were. I looked it up because I was annoyed by it. So joy kip is it's an entire It's like a strip tea song basically, and if you watch it on the Amazon Prime video stream, the subtitles for the song keep saying what's beneath the veil or what's behind the veil? Like translators, what's behind the veil. That's not what they're saying.

What they're saying is what's beneath the blouse? Choli is blouse. And so it's it's a double entendre in the in the in the song because they keep they keep talking about how it's her heart, you know, or hearts beneath their blouse. But it's a double on Sondracau. It's a stripteas song.

And also it's this cabaret number, and and removing that from the song makes it a completely different song. It turns what should be a you know, sort of a PG. Thirteen saucy thing into like a g rated you know, you know, love, Love conquers all things, which is I think it defeats the purpose of the song entire right, And I was kind of confused where like if she felt anything at all, like and now that makes sense, Like again, like the subtitles really pull any of the kind of steaminess out of it completely. And in fact, when we showed this at h at Fantastic Fest, we just so happened to be there at the same time that that Kumal Nanjiani was was there recording a live podcast and someone had mentioned to him that we were showing cal Nayiak and he was like, that's one of my favorite films.

I want to go introduce the movie. So so we had it was myself and my program director of nursuay And and Kumal Anjihanni were introducing the film and he he basically did a ten minute like impromptu stand up set about about cal Nayak and about you know, being a young man because he's roughly my age in his you know, early mid forties, and being a you know, a young kid in Pakistan watching this film and how Sanja Delt was a hero because at the time, what he was arrested for right before the film came out was you know, being in possession of guns that were that were allegedly linked to some nineteen ninety three terrorist actions for Pakistani militants in Mumbai and you know, taking the guns and getting rid of them, and that's what he ended up getting arrested for.

And so for Kumel being a Pakistanian at the time, he's like, oh, well, Sanje was our hero because he was like taking these Pakistani guns. And also there's this song and I'm thirteen years old and I'm getting all horned up by this what's beat the Blouse song? And so like the subtitles sort of ripping that subtext away. It's it's barely subtext, it's pretty much text. The way that the song is written was was disappointing, and I I hate to think that, you know, people who who might go to explore films like this.

I mean, it's not free on Amazon. You're still to pay for it, so you kind of need to know what you're going in for would see that and then see those dub titles, and there I feel like they're getting half the story or less in that particular part of the film, because it's not it's supposed to be like a a an an erotic tease for Sanjay Duck with the song included, and the mistranslation or the softening of the text makes it less that uh, less than that, which was annoying. And that's one place. The other place with the sub battels and I remember all the sub tunnels, and my Hindi is very work, but I know what chuly Chuli is a blouse. That's why I know what that is.

There's a there's a part in the climax of the film, which is it's probably explored, there's a there's a big boss guy that that Balu is sort of subservient to who ends up being like the final boss or for Jackie Shroff, and they have this little uh, it's barely a battle in these tunnels. It's it's basically just Jackie Shroff mop it's the floor with this guy. But at one point the the bad guy shoots him a few times and as as Jackie Stroff is walking toward him and he it doesn't affect him, like you can see sort of just dust clibs going off on a shirt or whatever. And you know, bad guys all shook up because you know, she shut this guy twice and nothing happened to him. And as it's translated by the subtitles, Jackie schroffs sort of like comeback line is you can't kill an Indian officer or something like that.

It's something like that. The actual line, which is not it doesn't really add any more text, but it's just a really badass line to say to somebody is bullets cannot pierce the chest of an Indian police, which is way cooler than you can't kill a cop, right, really takes all the fun out of it, Huh, it takes yeah. I mean you talk about in Indian films and this is it's not quite as much in Hindi films these days. Back in the in the nineties and eighties, it was much more prominent. And in this and in Tamwel and Telugu and the and the southern industries and come out of Also there's this concept of the you know, punch dialogues where you know, characters will go on long ramps, you know, they call them dialogu.

They are monologues at other characters where they they'll have these snappy comebacks all the time. And uh, and that's one of them. That is a that is a snappy comeback that bullets cannot pier suggested in any police it's a lot stabbier than you can't kill an Indian cop. And it's just it, it feels it. I don't understand the purpose of it.

I don't understand the reason why they would why they would change the dialogue in such what seems like an unnecessary way for audiences because you know, a lot of and there are two audiences for whom those subtitles are created. And this is for any Indian film, whether it's in theaters online. There there is the very small section as of this moment of people like us who are non Indians who are going into films like these because we are exploring. And that's you know, I've been doing this for a long time. I'm still exploring.

There's a lot that I haven't seen. I am always excited to see more, but it's you know, these films are not made with me in mind, and I'm okay with that. I like that, you know. And then the other audience is younger Indian both what are called NRI non resident Indian out you know, first generation not born in India, Americans, you know, or whatever, who have watched these these films with their parents. But they maybe they're Hindi isn't great or whatever.

I have friends here who who's who are from Indian families, but they're Hindi isn't great. So they go to movie theaters and they couldn't understand the films if they didn't have subtitles for them. And it just seems like you're robbing and this hands a lot. You're robbing the film of its power by making those changes that for maybe the subtitler doesn't seem like that big of a deal, but for the audience, it's it's a disconnect between the movie that I'm watching and the movie that the native speakers are watching, which is not you know well. And also to rob the I think the thing that maybe you've never even seen the movie, you've heard the song I mean, Chili Kapechi's is a big enough song in kind of Bollywood culture that yeah, like too irrevocably check change the meaning of the song is a little weird, And I wonder is that, like what is it changed on Eros as well, because if you live in if you live in the States, you can get Eros, which is again another option if you want to watch Indian cinema.

But like you alluded to, I rented this on Amazon paid dollar ninety nine or whatever the hell it was to rent it. But I wonder if on Eros, if it's this version or it's the other version. I'm assuming it's probably this version that kind of toned down again, like it's why they would tone it down is kind of beyond me to begin with, unless it's just a matter of, like you kind of alluded to, the subtitler doesn't understand what they're looking at. But I guess I would find it really hard to believe unless it's just too much. It must be an intentional and intentional change, right, intentional change that fundamentally changes the meaning of the song.

Right, It's like, it's not, yeah, it's it's it's not it's not a small difference, it's a it's a major difference. You know. You you took the title of the song and you change what it means, and it's I mean, it's it's not a filthy song. It's it's a sexy song, but it's not a song that is so dirty that it couldn't be played, you know, in front of a family audience. Right, but it is.

I just it was baffling to me when I was watching it and then just kept saying it over and over again. I was like, that's not what they're saying. You know. It doesn't help that they redo the performance. What at least one other time in the movie, and that's when Sanjay diod just do it.

But yeah, yeah, yeah, so hey, we'll do it twice and we'll have it mean nothing the second time. Too cool like that. Yeah, yeah, And what's interesting is I, you know, knowing that now it does kind of yeah, it does. Yeah, I guess, you know, because we've talked about this before. But and you know, maybe it goes back to, you know, how hard it is to bring some of these movies over here.

I wonder if it goes back to the idea of the conservative nature of kind of Indians filmmaking and whether or not they can kind of pivot after the fact. I mean, it kind of feels like an after the fact pivot of let's just change the subtitles. People who are watching it may not know. You know, if I had somebody else on this episode, I might not have known that because they wouldn't have programmed it and known that. I mean, again, I know that that is the word for blouse as well, because I've again I've done a little bit of Rosetta stone on my own, But I didn't even think about that word being so different that they're calling it something else entirely to your point.

So I wonder, like you said, it is intentional, but I don't want to automatically assume it's nefarious, But why would they change it? Why It's like changing rukjaw in DDLJ, Like if you change that song, if you change the meaning of the song, it robs the song of all of its significance to the movie. Yeah, and that's that's that's especially what happens here. It's it's treated in this particular stream. And I would assume also on Earros like you were saying as though it's just you know, any old typical uh, you know, sort of item number in a movie, and it's not.

It's a pivotal part of the plot. The song is and you know, and the seduction of the song is in the lyrics, it's in the dancing. It's what gets you know, Dounga and Ballu together. And by softening the seduction that it's less effective in that way, which I thought was just very frustrating. Well, it makes me question, like I said, like, why is Ganga and Ballu together?

Like I was questioning the kind of the involvement on her end, because that song doesn't really seem like she's doing much. But when you take it the correct way, you realize that she's really kind of putting herself out there and kind of bringing herself down to his level, because one would assume. And again, Ganga and Ram, the way that they interact with each other, there's not a lot of kind of salaciousness to it. They're very kind of I wouldn't say proper with each other, but they're not digging into kind of being innuendo. They're not using innuendo.

But that's exactly what she's doing throughout that song, and that kind of speaks to the kind of person that Baalu, at least that's what she thinks he is, and she finds out throughout the course of the movie that that's not necessarily the case, but yeah, it does. That's God, what a weird thing to do. What an odd thing to do, really odd thing to do. Speaking of odd things to do, you've also got on Opum Kerr, who is just he's acting in a different universe from everyone else in this film. Sure is, huh, he is, he is, He's acting real big.

He plays the warden of the prison from which Balu escapes at the beginning of the film, and you know, for for whatever reason, remains a character throughout the film, even though the prison is pretty much unimportant uh, once it's escaped from but on Opumker's performance is just like it's way out there in a way that kind of was something of a trademark for him around the time. He played these sort of uh what we're what are referred to often as a you know, comedy uncles. These are just sort of like middle men just being goofballs in movies as comic relief. And he was playing a comedy uncle in this film similar to what he does. And another one of my favorite films, and I'll you know, if you haven't seen this one, I strongly recommend see Darv Sharkan Starr from nineteen ninety five that I'm amazing, Like wow, real, it's one of my absolute favorites and out of them.

Kerr also he plays you know, a similar Instead of being you know, a prison warden, he's this he's the mother of the object of Srk's obsession, who is obsessed with cricket. And then like every every line that he he says is lates back to cricket for no particular reason, you know, he later went on to do And this actually was kind of funny because during that introduction from from Kamil Nagiani and we showed it. He mentioned, you know, this film and Autobum Kerr in this film and other films from around this time had inspired him to cast Autobum Kerr as his father in The Big Sick Kumil Nagiani's movie I Don't Won't Care place his dad because of Colmak and because of films like that. Around the same time, he's in d DLJ, Right, I mean yeah, playing fucking srk's dad.

Yeah, I auto palm Kerr in this movie. It wouldn't have surprised me if Johnny Lever had played that role instead. Like it's it's that big, like it's it's from a different movie altogether, like it's from a it's from a comedy film like I. The fact that they cut away to him during the fight between Sanjay Dutt and Jackie Schroff is ridiculous because he's reacting to something different too. It's not it's not even reacting to what's going on correctly.

It's I don't It's not that I don't get it, but it feels like one of those things that's in this movie because people expected it to be there at the time. Yeah, And it's like, well, who do we need for this role? Auto palm Kerr kind of does it and everything, so he can do it here? Right? Sure?

Why not? Like I'm sure that they're Like you've already alluded to, there are plenty of roles that he's done that this could just be. You know, again, you just mentioned this in a long string of characters that he's done. I mean Johnny Levi really the same way, like why he's in Maha Call I could not tell you, but that character he plays in that movie, I think Heather and I said something similar like he's in a different movie altogether that has nothing to do with this film. And I would say I would agree with you, autopumker in this movie, what in God's name is he?

What in God's name movie is he supposed to be in? Because not this one? Not this movie at all. Yeah, I mean it's it's it's another one of those the price that you pay for a solid films is sometimes you get these these oddball characters who are there simply for colark relief. There's really this is not a comedic film, you know, overall, and the moments of comedy that exist within the film are never never to do well with Jackie schros Jackie Schroff, first of all, is he's, you know, very straightforward character the entire time.

He never never blinks. Sanji did, on the other hand, does have that like we like you mentioned earlier the second version of Chili kipch once he's once Ganga has been discovered and that she sort of takes her in with his gang and they performed Chili kipice for her. That's a sort of comedic moment for him. But the big comedic moments are for the most part, with ut them care there's also uh in the you know, right after Balu and Gong go run offs and they're in this sort of roadside hotel, you know, having food and drinks or whatever, and she calls Ram. But there's also like all of Balu's gang are sort of singing around a table with him, and then there's a cop that shows up and they're all scared about the cop, but it turns out the cops an actor in a movie, and like there's this sort of little brief comic interlude with with all that stuff going on.

But it's a it's a I wouldn't call it a serious movie, but it's certainly not a comedy, which is why it's so odd that that auto them curse warden is I feel like he's a bad warden. I feel like he's not a good prison warden. Well he's no rajniy Khant and Jaylor, right, I mean who and who is? Yeah, Look, I don't dislike anobum Kerr. Actually, most of the things that you've mentioned, I mean, or the things that we would mention that I've seen him, I have liked.

This. I think is one of the first times I've seen him in something where I'm like this, just maybe I haven't seen enough Masala movies to have the opinion that you do, which is like he's great in some things, but like this is this for me is like a weird bridge too far because the movie, I mean again, Sanjay Dutt murders a guy in the first ten minutes of the movie, and then within five minutes of that, we have anopalm Kerr mugging for the camera repeatedly in a scene that again is not The scene's not funny. I mean, they're beating the shit out of each other to the point where one of them could theoretically kill the other one and anopalm Kerr is essentially McCaulay culkinting in the back and it just it's so bizarre.

But again, to your point, like Masala movies, they tend to kind of be all over the place and sometimes they just sometimes they just insert things just because. And I guess this technically checks a box. I'm just sure that this movie needed to check that box theoretically. Yeah, yeah, it's it's a weird choice. Yeah, But I will say I'm glad that mat Huriy Dixon is given a lot to do in this movie, because I will say, you know, in the nineties, with these kinds of movies, female characters sometimes tend to get sidelined, and she is not only not sidelined in this movie, but given a fair amount of autonomy of her own.

She is again, she's given the big set piece of the movie that the film is ostensibly known for for most people, you know, the song that we've already talked about. But I actually think that in terms of a female character in Indian cinema of the nineties, she's rather well done in this movie for this kind of movie at least. Yeah, I mean, she she's one of the few actresses who are sort of able to hold their own at this time. You know, you have obviously her, and you know Tad Joel, who's who's always great and that you know, lots of lots of films around the same time, we have Julie Stasa who was also doing really really cool stuff. You know, Madrid Dition kind of is the badass women of the times.

You know, she could hold her own with men in a time where that wasn't always expected, right, and not only as an actress, but you know, as one of the you know, most impressive dancers. Is one of the things she's known for is like her her classical dance abilities and that she is just fire whenever she's on the screen dancing. You know, I believe we talked last time about a little bit about about Dola Redola and Devdas and that moment for her is fantastic. She has a dance off. I can't remember what the film is, but she has a dance off with Prabudva that's like one of the Alzheimer's back in the late nineties.

I'm trying to know what the film was, but you know, she has songs built around dance, and I you know, It's one of the things that I love watching these films for is seeing how those these dance numbers play out. And you know, she's on top of that skill. She she leads you know, uh, Sanjay did around you know by his ear lobe, and and he is just like a love sick puppy the whole time and you believe it, you know, right. Oh, And and to your point, like she is she is a force to be reckoned with in this movie. And the fact that she is able to get Sonjay duck because again, like I like I mentioned, like I couldn't figure out what the deal was, and I guess it doesn't really matter because she's able to manipulate him the way she wants anyways, and that's kind of the point.

But no, she No, she's great. And to your point about like other actresses, like I would, I would put her in the same camp as like a cod role because codrole opposite SRK is like I don't. There are a few female actresses that can be opposite SRK and hold their own. She's one of them, and I've never seen devdas, but I'm assuming she's able to hold her Matariy Dixon is able to hold her own against SRK in that movie as well. And and you know I I for me, I really love when Indian cinema lets the female characters and the female actors really go for it, because I've seen plenty of these movies as I've seen American cinema that kind of sideline the characters, which is unfair because as we've clearly pointed out, these actresses really are just as fantastic as their male counterparts.

Really, I mean, I think in a lot of ways, codrole is better than SRK in DDLJ because the amount of effort needed to get her character to be believable is a lot harder than SRK just showing up and being his usual charismatic self, which I think exists in Perpetuita if you're SRK, which I mean same with Sanjay Dutt and Jackie Shroff here. I mean, they're effortlessly charming the way that she's effortlessly able to be enticing for the both of them. But I do want to ask you something as a little bit of a sidebar, because we've never talked about it together, but you kind of smirked when I brought it up. I want to know what you think of Tiger Shroff, because I have had a hard time getting through a lot of his movies, and I'm curious where you come down on Jackie Shroff's progeny, because Jackie Shroff's a great actor, not saying Tiger Shroff isn't, but you may have a different opinion on him than I do.

Oh I'm not a fan. I've I've tried, because you know, I when he sort of burst onto the scene with Boggy, uh was probably six or seven years ago. Now I can't mention. I can't remember exactly what it was. But with Boggy, I remember watching the trailer and people were talking about it being this like next level in Indian action and everything and whatever, and all I saw was a guy doing ballet dances and people's feet, you know, faces getting in the way of his feet.

Oh, I did my gosh, that's it didn't look like fighting. It looked like dancing, which you know, if you're gonna do that, I guess that's fine, but it doesn't It didn't feel like it was. It was marketed as this sort of like very intense, sort of you know, hand to hand kind of thing. And when Boggy came out, it was even there was a there was a suit, legal suit placed against it that it was, you know, borrowing too much from the Raid because it's another film where someone fights from the bottom ability to the top of the building. And it was just it was kind of embarrassing.

And then I went back and I tried to watch a couple of his other films, but I just I can't. I can't get on board with Like, I don't believe him as an action star and that seems to be what he's committed himself to being and I just don't see it. The only time I found intolerable is with War. And it's not because because it's not a Tiger shrock movie, you know, right and right, and you know it's it's it's more because he's you know, it's it's the the blatant homoeroticism between him and Rithic Groch. That's that drives that movie.

That that I found most most appealing, as you know, as a as an old school, you know, eighties action fan, we're used to seeing that sort of thing, big sweaty men fighting each other and grappling, like that's something that you know people of you know, my age, saw every every week, you know, in in movies and going to the video store and all that kind of stuff. And and Rhythic grotion Is is very charismatic and a good actor. And you know, you put those two in that one the one song that they do together, and I can't take my eyes off Rhythic Groch the same way I couldn't take my Ayselfrithic Ross. I'll be possible. You've already talked about earlier.

You know, he is, he is a He's a super nova of charisma, that guy. And Tiger Stroff isn't. I've I've gotten in arguments with people I've had I've been blocked on Twitter by by different action not not people who aren't action fans who have bound like a couple of Indian films with Tiger Shroff and and think he's the greatest things in Slice Bread and I just, oh my god, I feel bad for them in a way. Really I can't. Yeah, I mean they're four misguided souls.

It Yeah, it's it's not great. And maybe he'll do something that I will like again, I don't know, Like i I'm I'm not eager to run out and you know, watch his next movie, because the track record's not great with me. But I'm always open for someone making a turnaround, you know. I feel that there are people that are that have done it better in the meantime, people that have done what he is trying to do, but just don't have that you know, big name daddy behind them, you know, to to get the same kind of launch that he did. I feel like I feel like the term Nepo baby is one that might be used for Jackie Shroff a little bit or Tiger Schroff.

I mean, yeah, I mean, that's that's all of Indian films, really boy. But but when it's Prithique Roshan, it kind of doesn't matter because he is that good. Like I mean, I you know, a movie that I genuinely thought was going to be not problematic but a hard watch was Cooi Milgaia and I found that movie to be a lot more charming than I would have ever given it credit for. And that's because Prithik Roshan's performance is that good. He is, He's that charismatic and man, you you hit the nail on the head.

The only thing I've liked Tiger Shroffen is War, and I've seen almost everything else at this point, and honestly, Boggy feels like, uh, what's the word I would use, bait and switch in a lot of ways, like, oh, he's going to do the raid thing in the last fifteen minutes of the movie, you mean, But Boggy does have one of the worst songs in Indian cinema. The Girl I Need You song is, without a doubt, one of the most just like teeth, gradingly terrible songs to essentially also showcase your new action start in making him do essentially like third rate Backstreet Boy bullshit, which is really what it boils down to. But yeah, I've tried. I've given Tiger Shroff every ounce of kind of I've given him the benefit of the doubt, and I haven't seen a single movie he's been in that I can get behind, because it just seems like this guy is in movies because his daddy's famous, which is unfortunate because he's not bad in War.

But I don't know if that's because cylic Roshan is just that good of an actor, and it kind of just covers up Tiger Schroff's lackings. Shortcomings, But yeah, I mean when you watch Jackie Shroff as an actor in this movie, you go, oh, man, can you imagine what this guy's kids must be like? And then you realize you got boggy one, two, and three, and by the third one, he's literally destroying helicopters with his kicks, which is just that was the only thing I kind of liked it. Decided to go it, decided to go all the way with it, and I was like, Okay, if you're just gonna stop caring about reality at all and just go for it, like I can, I can. I can appreciate that as a choice that the movie is making.

That that bothers me less than trying to pretend that you're actually a martial artist. That's fair. Yeah, it is a lot of it is a lot of ballet kicking, is a nice way of putting it. And I didn't see the movie that he did with Akshay Kumar, which I don't think came outs. Yeah.

I don't think it got rave reviews either, unfortunately. So no, it's it's a it's It's been quite the topic in the news about how a movie this big has failed so hard critically and commercially. I haven't seen it either, because neither one of those actors is particularly feling to me at these At this point, oh really, I had known very little about Akshay Kumar outside of Enttherron two, which you know, I mean in and of itself is a kind of a fucking nutso ass movie. So yeah, it's you know, he's and this is this is my fault for being a little bit, you know, too deep in the trenches sometimes, is that I you know, a lot of uh Akshay Kumar's films in the last five or six years have been very heavily, heavily politically motivated in favor of the current regime, which, if you follow Indian politics at all, is an oppressive regime and not not a very liberal one and so increasingly conservative would be a nice way of putting it, if diplomatic an any way.

Yeah, and so there have been a lot of these sort of like chest thumping, patriotic what they call patri the audict films, but are really more nationalist films, jingoistic films, and and acshally Kumar has been, you know, the the lead actor in a lot of those. I don't think that he's made anything, you know, really genuinely objectively entered, objectively aer taking this that's a weird thing to say, but you know, entertaining in a way that's that's not questionable for for most reasonable fans. In probably ten years, everything has been compromised in some some sort of way. I think probably the last thing that I saw in him in that I really liked was OMG. I haven't seen the second one, but the first one, at least was was quite good.

And that was I'm looking at it now, was twelve years ago where he plays God or a gued Sue was God for after his shop has destroyed, he Sue's got and so actually we're actually Corkle's Gott in that movie. It sounds interesting. Watch that movie. That sounds interesting. It's great, and you know, it's even it even feels almost like a film that would be tough to make these days because of the way that you know, religion is such a touchy subject, and certainly the questioning of religion and the questioning of faith is sort of a touchy subject.

I don't know, I don't know, that's it's it's completely not related to this film, but that's sort of where I've I've landed on Akha Kumar as someone who had a really great run of like being the action hero of Indian films throughout the nineties and the Earl and the two thousands, and then just kind of feels like soldier's soul a bit to for political expedience. Well, and to your point, if you don't know anything about Indian politics, yeah, right now ain't exactly the flourishing times of liberal thought in India. If anything, it's barred from it, which to me, I mean again, like this isn't something that we've really talked a whole lot about. But I kind of always wonder if my thoughts on a movie like Patan might be a little different if I were someone who lived in India, they probably would be, because again, I found that movie to be strikingly jingoistic, down to Patan's fucking tagline of Jai Hin, Like I mean again, like pretty much on the nose of like where we're coming at this from, but this time in Indian cinema in nineteen ninety three, there's none of that, which I kind of appreciate, though there are kind of some movies because what is it Sarfarash comes out around this time, which is uh, what Amir Khan doing kind of the the you know Pakistan India kind of back and forth.

That's that's there. There's none of that here. But I do kind of wonder because again, like we as Americans are kind of attuned to those kinds of movies, but when it comes to Indian cinema, I'm still learning kind of where I need to kind of understand that the politics of the times are really affecting things. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a challenge because there's there are you know having I know people who who work in the industry and have had projects, you know that they've unable to get across the finish line because of political pressures from from producers, from money men, you know, people who had you know, handshake deals with Netflix that ended up getting you know, shut down because they thought they might be too problematic or challenging or or to put out in India.

And we're seeing it right now with with something like Monkey Man, which has not done an Indian release, but the minute it came to vod it was available, uh, you know through nefarious under underground channels in India, and you know, anyone who could went and downloaded it. And you know, I'm as as someone who is sort of adjacent to the industry, I'm you know, I'm always sort of I'm not a fan of piracy, but at this point it feels like something that it's in this particular specific case. It feels almost necessary, you know, right, And and to your point, I mean, because you had you had alluded to it earlier. I think in another episode we did about money Man, you know, I kind of and I was maybe alluding to it a little bit, but I would come out and say it like the changes in this movie and the subtitling I mean being I mean right, like, I wouldn't be surprised or put it past someone if they wanted to make it less sexy, because you know, now it's going to be on streaming.

I'm not saying that's what's going on here, but given the times and given the way things are, and the fact that this was probably resubtitled in the last five to ten years, which is a shame because I'm not saying that movies like this aren't coming out in Indian cinema right now, but this kind of movie being retroactively changed. Doesn't give me a lot of hope for the things coming out of Indian cinema right now in terms of pushing the envelope, because, like you said, with Monkey Man, not even an Indian movie, but definitely one that is for a certain group of people in India, not something that they want to see or be exposed to, and that is harmful, very harmful for everybody. To retroactively change things to fit a certain narrative or to not make things that available to people's not great either, because to your point, this isn't something I've talked about a whole lot on this show, but it does kind of bear mentioning.

There are so many of these movies that I cannot find with American with American subtitles, Jesus Christ with English subtitles, and some of them have terrible subtitles, to the point of you can't even really enjoy the movie because the subtitles are such poor quality. And that is a shame, and it's a shame for a number of reasons, and one of them is they don't necessarily actively even care if we are able to see these movies, which is a shame because in a lot of ways, someone like yourself who's been beating the drum longer than I have, and someone who's been beating the drum for a couple of years. It's almost like we have our work cut out for us in terms of the things that we're able to watch.

Because if they're going to be on Prime where they're going to start changing the subtitles, do I even tell people to go and watch it there? Or do I tell them to go watch it, like you said, through less legal more quote nefarious unquote means because is there a version of this that you can find that has the original subtitles? Who knows? I mean I have it on DVD. My DVD had the original subtitles from whatever, ten twenty years ago, right, Well, DVD is But yeah, it's it is a challenge.

It's always been a challenge. I working with different filmmakers and whether or not their films are going to get any kind of release or any reasonable release in India or even outside, it's always something that they have to be concerned with. Then something that they get that is irritating, even even small things like I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but Auto rog kuships film Ugly from twenty thirteen, you know, played in the can directors Fortnite that year, and it took over a year, It was like eighteen months before it actually released in cinemas because he decided that he was going to fight the mandate for the you know, the alcohol and smoking warnings in the film alcohol is injurious to your health.

You mean, yes, that one. And so she he held on like he held it back for a year and a half trying to get them to not force those those warnings to appear on screen because it was already it was already you know, an a rated film, an adult rated film, and so if you're going into a film like that, then you presumably are someone who can handle someone drinking or having a cigarette. He eventually lost that light in the in the name of getting the film out. But you know, it's it. It surfaces in a lot of a lot of very strange ways, and a lot of them is like way below the radar, so people don't actually even know it happens at the production phase.

It happens in the censoring phases. It happens you know, before the film ever reaches an audience. So while there's often reporting about it. There's so much more that goes on to suppress, you know, the freedom of these artists to release the films and forms that they believe in. That it's it's it's frustrating, you know, well, it's a form of censorship.

In any kind of censorship as far as someone like myself, in pri like yourself is concerned, is not a good thing. And again that's why I mention it, because I'm not saying that's what's going on here, but it'd be kind of easy for somebody to just fucking do this at this point, given that they know that this is the only place it's going to be available for anybody to see, because it's either Euros or Amazon Prime or I guess you can go watch it on YouTube, But no guarantees the subtitles on YouTube are going to be any better, any more well correct unquote than they are in the version that you can rent on Prime Video. It just does feel pretty shitty that the version you have to spend money on is not the version of the movie that one would actually be able to understand some of the subtextual and again to your point, not even subtext in that song.

But it kind of becomes subtext in the song, which takes away, takes away the power of the female character ultimately in the movie, which that in and of itself feels really bad. Uh So, I don't know. Again, I don't want to point fingers and say that's what's going on, but it's part of that larger discussion that you have definitely been having in the social media that I've seen, and you know, anytime we get together and talk, it kind of comes up the the editing and the censorship that is inherent with you know, Indian cinema, which is unfortunate. So yeah, again, we in this country think that we are behold into a lot of censorship, but it is nowhere near as bad as somewhere like India or or other places that have even more oppressive government regimes in place.

But Indian cinema is definitely having its moment to be oppressed right now for sure, and no end in sight unfortunately. So it's the problem. A lot of the problem becomes then if this is if this is the atmosphere that these filmmakers are trying to create their films within, then there's this sort of uh, you know, it's this the censorship worms its way backwards into you know, the development phase and into the script phase and into the ideation phase of the films, because they you have to in order to spare yourself, you know, the disappointment of creating something that you think is wonderful and then having it be gutted by censors. You just instead make some things that's easier to digest, and maybe you don't go as far as you feel like you could have gone, and you know, those are it's it has.

It can make the films more creative and addressing these issues, but more often than not, what it ends up doing is it just frustrates the filmmakers into you know, just not making the films that they want to make the way they want to make them, and instead they have to make insanely jingoistic pieces of entertainment for I guess the government writ large like that's the other thing, like, does the government need any help being nationalistic at this point? Not really like and again, especially if you're oppressive, that's you know, normally oppressive regimes, that's when the best kind of media is made, you know. But I would say that sometimes they can kind of get out ahead of the media and really do a number on it, So you know, I'm curious to see kind of if this is a trend that continues, and it sure seems like it and could could go far as go as far as even to changing subtitles and movies that have already come out.

So again, somebody made that choice. I don't know who, but somebody was subtitling it and said, I don't want it to be blouse anymore. I wanted to be veiled, make that change, and they had to change it. However, many times they say it in the goddamn movie, which is a fake. It's not like it's just once.

It's like, yeah, they say it so many times. It's like it's one of those things where it's not like, you know, fucking Han shot first and they can change the scene a million times and it's one second of footage. This is like sixteen minutes of this movie that is changed. So final thoughts and musings on cal Nayak Josh, I really really enjoyed call Niake when I was when I was putting together the program for Fantastic Fests for those few films that we showed those retrospective screenings, and I'd asked some friends you know, when I was in India at the time, you know who's got materials, Because that's another big issue with these older films is a lot of the films don't exist in any sort of you know way that's reasonable for projection for or you know, the thirty five millimeters reels are gone.

They were all transferred to TV quality because that's where they figured they'd live for the rest of eternity. And when I was told by a friend that Subash guy took care of all of his materials, he was very good about archiving stuff, I was like, I'm gonna get call Mike then, because that's the one. Like he's made a lot of ray films. But for what I do and for what I'm trying to show people, call Nike is is exactly what I want. It's it's all the Bollywood trappings.

It's song and dance, it's action, it's you know, gigantic, you know the dashom deshum action. I don't know if you heard that phrase, but it's all the every time it's it's the sound, it's the automotivepa sound that dashoom is every time someone gets punched or a bullet is shot. But so the sounds are so so outsized compared to what they would be in reality. So that's flat fight ce ones where you where you talked about with Jackie Schuff and Sante Dune fighting in the trees and they're like hitting each other and they have these like giant, giant fist landing sounds, these body blow sounds, you know, and it extended what was amusing to me because that was that was fun in and of itself. But at one point when they're fighting each other, Ballu's mother gets involved and then she starts hitting him, and her punches have made the exact same sounds as as the men's do, and it was just like, oh, this is great, Like I love watching her just pound on these these these giant behemoths of men and seemingly with the same force that they're hitting each other.

You know. It has all the sort of over the top things that I really really love. Joki Peach is a great song, the final song and dance number where where Sante dud is recommitting himself to villainy in his you know, his like layer with all of his buddies and he has this amazing hoot with all these power clashing patterns on it, the black and white checkers on one side and stripes on the other. And he's got like this great had in the cane and it's the fashion alone in this film is is its top notch. You know, it's it's it's a lot of fun, and it's it's the kind of thing that you having done this for as long as I have, there's there's always pushback from people who are who are new or unfamiliar or uninterested in Indian films and ask me why I do this or whatever, you know, and they have all these preconceived notions of what Bollywood and Indian films are.

And a lot of those preconceived notions are well earned. You know, the films are too long, and their song and dance and that comes out of nowhere, and the actions unbelievable. I'm like, yes, yes, yes, all those things are true. This takes all those boxes. But it's the way that it's accomplished that is, it's it's it's done with nothing but pure entertainment in mind that I believe that it accomplishes that goal in space.

Now I completely agree. I think you know, if you're if you're asking me, you know, movies to show people that have never seen Indian cinema of this, I think, to your point, like it it has the things that you would expect, but it does them in a way that is imminently success and it doesn't get in the way of I think, drawing someone further into the fold, because you kind of you get the best of a lot of things. Like you said, you get the best of a really memorable actor with Sanjay Dutt, but also with Jackie Shroff. You have a well written female character. You have some great if not you know, more memorable for some people than the movie itself with some of the musical numbers.

And then again it just has all those other things that kind of feel intrinsic to Indian cinema, those things that make it Indian cinema. That to your point, that's why I watch these movies. When someone says they're singing and dancing, I go and your fucking point, like, yes, and for me it's not. These are not detractors. And you know, again, like you would tell someone who loves any kind of genre four or five things about that genre or kind of movie, and if you're expecting them to say no, I don't like it, well, you're barking up the wrong tree here with two people that love Indian cinema.

But to your point, I mean, this does those things. It just does them well. There are plenty of these movies we've alluded to already that have these things that don't do them very well. So so yeah, no, this has been great. I'm glad that.

I'm glad that this is a movie that you have a history with too, because for me, this feels like a movie that I am going to tell other people to check out, although I will kind of give them a little bit of kind of a Hey, by the way, one of the songs is completely different, so keep that in mind. But no, I could totally see why you would be so excited to show this to a room of people, and why Kumail Nanjianni would want to stand in front of said room of people and talk about it for ten minutes and probably have to drag himself away from talking about it to go do something else. I'm assuming so I get it with this movie, because this movie really is everything that kind of Indian cinema of a certain time and place is.

And yeah, I mean, who better to lead the movie than two of the actors that are still still doing it today and still doing it rather well too. So yeah, make appearances big films across industries too. You know, they've been in in in Pummel and Telugu films, both of them recently. There was a Jackie Shroff was in jailor, wasn't he Jackie Schroff was in jailor. Sanjay dud had a bit part in in Juwan where he actually does make a a Colniag reference in his right brief appearance in that film.

So yeah, they're they're all over the place. They're they're doing the characters. And like you said that that performance of if nothing else, you know, that performance of Sanje dot In in Ogni pot Is is next level. It's a he's just really really incredible in that film, and it's it's one of my favorite films of the last you know, I guess fifteen years now, it's twelve years old. He upstages for Thick Rashan, which is like, good luck doing that.

But yeah, I think you're right. Like, the more I think about the Ognipother remake, the more I'm like, that's that's the one that I think would appeal to everybody. I'm not saying the originals not great, but in terms of like, yeah that it's God, he's so good in that movie. It's almost unfair how good he is in that movie. It really is, because he's fucking amazing.

Yeah. The shorthand that I've sort of developed for that kind of film, and I hate to say it this way, but it's the way that makes sense to people who are not familiar with these types of films, is you know that Ognipath, the twenty twelve movie is a real movie. Like it's a real movie movie. Like you don't have to be aware of the tropes or any of the other stuff. You can go into that one, you know, completely blind, just knowing that it's a movie about revenge and be satisfied, Like, I think it's really really great.

I don't want to watch Ogniboth again, right, it's I mean, is it is that good? Like it's yeah, yeah. And what's funny is like for a movie that ostensibly the original is Omitov's movie, the remake ends up being the guy who plays the villain his movie instead, Like yeah, it's yeah. No, That's a movie that I think about often because Sanjay Dutt is just larger than life in that movie, like and in a way that like actors tend to not be, like I don't know, like he's he's he's got that in this movie. In Kyl Nayak, he has that like a restingness, but I don't know.

Something about him being bald just further accentuates the the his eyes and kind of his look. And then he's just kind of formuless too with that like traped over robe thing that he's rocking. Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's a good one. That's a good one.

So, Josh, when you're not joining me to talk about Indian cinema, where can people find all the things that you work on on the internet. You can find me personally at Hateful Josh on Twitter. You can find you professionally at Oak and Sate Films on Twitter, films on Instagram and basically do the same thing Twitter is, so you can choose those two places. And you can also find my writing at screenanarchy dot com, where I mostly do new film reviews and festival film reviews throughout the year. Or you can also find I have an essay might have mentioned this last time.

I have an essay in the in the recently released second site UK Blu Ray four K edition of green Room and also Fractured Visions New Blue era reluse of Young Connan's Doberman. I have an essay in there as well, So I know some people that bought that green Room release, so they are in possession of your essay. So my my music's Yeah. Green Room is a movie I still have yet to see, which it is intense. That's that's what I've heard.

I've heard it's intense. That's they I've heard nothing else about the movie other than I should watch it and it's intense. That's that's all I know. So yeah, one of these days I'll get around to it. But in terms of the things that I have gotten around to, Wardingwaymedia dot Com is where you can go to find all of the things that I do.

Patreon dot com, slash culture cast ten dollars level you get ranking on Bond, which we do once a month talking about James Bond. If you're into it, cool if not, also cool, Josh, thank you so much for joining me. This has been great, I mean, any opportunity to talk glowingly about Indian cinema is a good, good time by me, so thank you for having me. It's always fun to talk about a film that I really really love and this is what its. Yeah and uh and as always, well we'll catch on the next episode.