The Killer Inside Me (1976)

We're waiting, speaking of deep speaking of deep cuts, right, h Colin, It's it's been a it's been a while since we podcasting together. N't too long, too long. I'm very happy to be back. But Richard's not here, folks. Heather is hello.

Hello. I think the cultures anywhere. Hey, Richard, Hello. I mean you just need to dial the energy up like three hundred x more and you'll you, you'll get it. Richard is a ball of fire.

I got Richard. It's amazing. I am punchy, so I am not a ball of fire or like a little sparky ember though. I think it'll be good. I hope well.

On this episode of the Culture Cast, I'm still your host, Chris dash you and you know who's joining me. And on this episode, we're kicking off the month of my birth, which I decided to program myself. So here we are talking about movies that are based off of books that, yep, that that movies are made from. I don't know where the fucking that was a failure on so many options. I think it failed, but then it looped around and became so hard proceeded.

There's no sail, no fail now, no failure. Here, we're coming back at it. We're pulling back up, and we're trying to land again. We're talking about a movie from nineteen seventy six, not the remake from twenty ten. We're talking about The Killer Inside Me.

I got my feet on both sides of the fence. I planted them there a long time ago. Sometimes I see you look, come into your eyes at the one I can't explain, and it's like something terrible's happening to you deep down inside. All I can do is wait until I split right down the middle. Schizophrenia acute, advanced, incurable.

Don't say I'm not that kind of guy, because you just don't know. Within the mind of this man, within your mind lurks and evil screaming to be set free. Are you all right? Stacy Keach being the Killer Inside Me? So.

It's directed by Bert Kennedy, written by Ed Mann and Robert Shambley, and it's based off of Jim Thompson book of the exact same name, Killer Inside Me. This version stars Stacy Keach as lou Ford, Susan Tyrrell as Joyce Lakeland, and Keenan Wynne's Chester Conway playing a good old boy The best of the boys, the good old kind. And in this movie, Stacy Keach plays lou Ford, the sheriff of a small town who is a actual sociopath at his core being. But it does a really good job at keeping up a facade. But the facade, as it often does, begins to slip.

And what happens when it begins to slip starts to kill people. So, Heather, I'll kick it to you first exposure to the book, exposure to the movie. What are you thinking? What's your thoughts on the killer inside me? Well, first of all, I'm so excited I get to be a part of this episode because I Jim Thompson is a writer have been familiar with three years and had been wanting to get around too.

And so when you have told me about this planning this month and there's the list of films and books and this one, and I was like, that's it. This will this will be. This is like the firm kick in the talks. I need to get off my ass and read it. And holy shit, like this, oh my God, like Jim Thompson, and I already knew a little bit of his work.

I mean, if you're a film person of course, he you know, worked on the dialogue for Kubrick's The Killing, which is one of my favorite movies ever. You know, he's got a credit on Passic Lori, which is another one of my favorite Kubrick movies ever, among many, many, many other accolades. But this book economic yet perfect details as a writer, like he really, as a prose writer, has that sweet spot that I think. I mean, it's so hard to get. It's almost like writing that it seems deceptively almost simple, until you really break it down and it's like, oh, it's a gut punch.

It's it's so good. And I'm glad that we did the nineteen seventy six film because, I mean, Stacy Keish and Susan's Tyrrell come on, Like, we have the core leads of Fat City reunited to two Juggernauts, Um and Stacy Keach cast at cast as lu Forward just seems like perfect, perfect, perfect casting, and especially because maybe it can like playoff somebody having an internal just demon but also able to kind of convincingly play off like, oh, I'm just the I'm your local nice guy. I was raised in this town, which is like Lou Forward in the book, is all about that, Like he's so intelligent that he knows it's best to put on this mask of like I'm just kind of this dumb hick that gives you cliches, and everybody's like, I'll lose a good boy.

And it's like now he's yeah, he's good all right, like the boys. It's brilliant. The book is brilliant. The movie has some issues which we'll get into, but um there are some strengths too, and we can get into those as well. But I don't know what about you guys, Like what was what were your journeys to this?

Yeah, Colin, break it down for me, because I know I know that, I know you've never heard of Jim Thompson before. You're not a book not a book reading guy by by trade, right or anything, complete lives, complete fabrication. I don't have every one of Jim Thompson's books in the next room. That is a lie I do. But um, so I first saw this in two thousand and eight.

I was co writing an article for Moving Image Source with Mark Ashe on Thompson adaptations, and I think he was the one who I think Mark was the one who wound up writing about this in the article how that's how we sort of split up the writing duties. But I did see it in eight and I remember being a little disappointed at the time. I went back years later after I became a little more familiar with Stacy Keach and Bert Kennedy and discovered that I really liked it. I thought it was a you know, it's not the most faithful adaptation in terms of texts a screen, but I think they actually understand a lot of the underlying issues that Thompson was writing about quite well. And I mean, the cast is just incredible, as others said.

And I did rewatch the winter Bottom movie this afternoon, which was even worse than I can remember. And it's a great example of how if you film a book page for page, you can still royally fuck it up and totally miss the point. Hey, it's also weird to have Casey Affleck in that lead role even now. It's weird, not just the meta textual nest of who Casey Affleck is, but no, usually I don't like his interpretation of lou Forward at all. I think it just it's totally so far removed from Thompson.

I think Stacy Keach gets the you know, he it's supposed to be almost like a little bit of a hammy charm, but like Casey Affleck is just so soft spoken with this, you know, he's already a serial killer. Like there's no there's no facade, it's all like it's all an affectation, Like it's just it's like with Stacy Keach, it's one one eighty. With Casey Affleck, it's just like a step to the side. So one of the things I loved rereading this book for the podcast is when we first meet lou Ford, he to borrow something from uh the What We Do in the Shadows TV show. He almost is described like an energy vampire because he's talking about how he tells these stories with these really cheesy, corny lines, and when he sees people start to squirm, he just keeps holding on and like making the story go longer and longer because he wants to make these people suffer.

And so there's I don't know, to me, that's it's that's missing from Casey Affleck, But I think Stacy Keach kind of has that sense of control of the situation also which I've only seen just like little clips of the Winter bottom one and just had an instant like, oh hell no, I react them to it. And a large part of that was the main cast, like because I saw like the like some of the supporting actors like okay, Elias Cortillas and anything is fire like but yeah, Billy Pully, Billy Pulley, everybody. I am a Bill Pullman, huge Bill Pullman. Oh I love Bill Pullman. Yeah.

No, same, And honestly, Cootias, if he was a bit younger, I think would have been way better than I Mean. The problem with me a Casey Affleck is he doesn't have a gravitas about him as an actor that can pull off a Thompson character. There's certain actors that you need to pull off certain writers, in my opinion, and sometimes that's not even like a dig on the specific actor. I remember trying to watch Factotum with Matt Dillon and I couldn't even get through it. And I there are Matt Dillon movies.

I love that. I think Dylan's fucking great. Like I'm not anti Matt Dylon, but Matt Dylan as Henry Chinaski, Matt Dylan does not fit a Bukowski character, Like it's just not him and that's you know. And Casey Fleck does look like a criminal for I mean not just because of a real life reason, but to me, like I could buy him. I look at him and be like, he'd be a shitty, preppy gang rapist.

I don't see him as a lou Forward. I mean, like I see, like when I think of actors that could pull off Loue Forward, I think of a younger Michael Worker who's also Southern, like Charles Day. Pierre is honestly who I thought of when oh, okay, like a young Charles stay Pierre, because Stay Pierre, Kentucky. That's the other problem with Casey Affleck. Okay, Chris, you can attest to this to me because you you too are Southern.

When people that are from the South try to do Southern accents, it sounds like fucking heehaw or or they kind of try and do the soft spoke. Well, well, yes, ma'am like that. It's awful, it's off. Well, there's no real you know, and it's not just a matter of accents. It's like they don't understand the weirdness of the South.

There's a weirdness in this region. I mean, not just the typical redneck bullshit that that unfortunately is affect but there's something else, you know. It's like you have to understand the region. That's why Toby Hooper is one of the best horror filmmakers with the southern region because he gets it. You know, Casey Ffleck, he just looks like a little twir like he just doesn't have that, you know.

And then Jessica Alba as Joyce, are you fucking shitting me? She's the best part of the movie. I'm to give her nothing to work with. No. I felt bad for her, like she just got given a horrible part.

But I mean, but why would you cast her? And I agree because like, honestly, I don't think she's that great of an actress. But that's somebody you play to their strengths, like she's in certain films and she's fine. But her playing this like hard bitten, backwards sex worker who has a gun on her probably to make sure like if anybody tries to rape her or kill her, she can get to them first, which obviously doesn't work in her favorite spoiler. But you know, Jessica album like No, No, No No, Like Susan Tyrrelle, though she Susan granted Susan Tyrrell if you had a I mean, I'm a huge fan.

I worship with the altar of sus Suit. But part of the reason why I do it is because she delivers. That's an actress that never fails you, and she delivers in fact. Reading like old reviews of when this movie originally came out and it got mixed reviews, but the unanimous praises were for her and Stacy Keach, you cannot deny those two. But I mean Jessica album, I mean, and that's not And again it's like Kes maybe that's not even her fault.

It's like, who cast this? Like seriously, like that's I mean, Casey Affleck though, fuck, that's awful. Like I still just thinking about it now. I'm just like so offender, Like look at him. I could keep going on about what I don't like about it, and I feel like that could become the entire podcast.

It is bad. I do think we should mention though, like the one thing that like that I did find funny about the backlash to that movie. Before I talk about my thoughts on the new want to Hear they were like, oh, there's a lot of graphic violence towards women. Did you read the book? Yes, they're sure is.

And it's not in any shape, form or fashion pleasant in the book, And it's not meant to be pleasant on screen because if you're reveling in it, that says more about you than it does the people watching it. I think it's what Michael Winterbottom completely gets wrong about the book. Jim Thompson's violence is disturbing, but he doesn't linger over it, like and I think that's I mean, probably for some censorship reasons, but I think Bert Kennedy understood, like, yeah, it's make it quick, make it fast. The violence isn't the point. It's sort of the underlying character.

And then you know the deeper sociological and psychological you know, you know resonances. They just like up to the violence in the Michael winner Bottom and they linger on it. It's just gross, it's unpleasant, And I just don't think he understands what that book is about at any level. He doesn't understand why joy is in the book. He doesn't understand why the you know, the kid that gets killed in jail is killed.

He doesn't understand. I don't really think he understands that a lot of what Jim Thompson is writing about is a how would you put it? You know, I mean it's a sociopathic white male who's a figure but thirty, who has power or you know, to change and basically kill everybody in change narratives. And when you watch The Winner Bottom, all of that sociological and cultural stuff is just absent. It's all about violence.

The scene where Casey Affleck beats Jessica Alba is like, it's like beyond grotesque for no reason, like other than oh, I it's there in the book, so it's got to be here. Like yeah, also, yeah, you're missing, Yeah, that's what you get from it. You're missing the point very much so. And yeah again, like Colin, I love that you mentioned. That's the thing I think that's so brilliant about the book.

And I mean there's some strong stuff in the book, but it's done not in some sort of like you know, splatter punk way or you know, exploitative way either. Like it's very like he gives you enough for you to be like, oh my god, and then he kind of moves on. But that but that leaves you more with almost I think a sinking feeling if something's almost too gross, And there are things that are extreme in art that I love, Like I'm not approved by any means, but again, it's all in how you do it and the way that Thompson's able to throw in details. I mean, there are times where I'm like, holy shit, this was fifty two. This is published in nineteen fifty two, because there's some strong stuff, but it's done in a way where it's just like you're just like, oh, but it's also so real, like it's authentic.

It's like that's the world, like it wasn't an Aussie and Harriet, which sounds like pat things, but the way a lot of people tend to have nostalgia, people tend to forget, like, yeah, people have always been horrible, have a day, there's my Ted talk, but people will also been wonderful too. It's duality. But um but yeah, I mean, but that's hilarious to be offended though by It's like it's all I'd love it if somebody like watches a Ted Bunty, like a movie based on Ted Bunny, like he wasn't very nice to women. Cancel ye no more? Ten Ted Bunny's canceled.

Yeah now i'd be it's silly, but yeah, but I think this one and it's also with the Burt Kennedy version and Colin, you're actually speaking to something. I dug up because I found two different reviews, one of which was newer, but another one was a little more at least twenty years old, but both of them alluded to there being a strong chance of post production ampering, which I could believe because some of it. There's at times there are things that feel uneven and almost like something's missing, like especially actually with some of the violence. Ironically enough, because like the scene with Joyce where he beats Susan Tyrrell, who's playing Choice, he just gives her like I mean, it's a brutal punch, but that's all we see, and then we're it's like, oh, we think he killed her, And it's like, I mean, I'm not saying you need to show him like killing somebody, but damn, like that's a that he's is he Thanos over there?

Is he Roman Reigns with that Superman punch, Like I mean later in the movie he does kill Amy with one punch, So yeah, that that confused me even more. Sucks at least the punch with Joyce. I mean, she's flies across the room. It's like somebody would definitely be concussed by that. But the Amy one that was, Yeah, I don't know.

I almost wondered if that's Burt Kennedy coming from fifties Hollywood, where at that time, one punch someone's down, maybe they're did Okay. Yeah, I just I just sort of I just sort of like cool Hollywood, old school Hollywood shorthand that's from a different era, that's a bit out of touch with what was actually being made in the seventies. But Bert Kennedy was an older director, m not someone that I would ever assume would be a natural fit for Thompson based on writing Bud Bedecker and directing that John Wayne comedies, all of which I like. But um, well, and that's where I and that's where I come in on this because again I have to give some of the credit for this pick to our dear friend, father Malone, who is not here with us this evening, but he sends his kind regards.

But he was the one who suggested this book to me last year when I asked him, like, what's something I should read, and he was like, well, you should read The Killer Inside Me, and it's a lot. Book is a lot. The book is intentionally a lot. I mean it's it's an overwhelming piece of fiction where you're stuck rattling around inside of lou Ford's head for you know, one hundred and seventy five, two hundred pages, and it's there nary a ray of sunshine in this narrative, folks. It's brutal and overwhelming.

But it's also very like you guys have both already mentioned, very matter of fact in its presentation, which I really appreciate, because someone like this, if this person existed, which they do, plenty of them exist, plenty of ones out in the open, and one's like lou Ford. I like that there's no pomp and circumstance to it, like a dexter where it's like, oh, he's doing the killing of the bad people and he's righting the wrongs. It's like, no, this guy's just a fuck, like a total fuck, a total sociopathic piece of shit. And this is not a story where you sympathize or even remotely empathize with your quote main character or in another narrative of your hero. He's the villain of the piece.

But that's what makes this so Like you mentioned, Heather, it feels like this wasn't written in the fifties, Like what fucking like no like this is you could write this now. You could put this out now with a different name and have read it. When did this come out? Be like, oh, I don't know, like a couple of years ago. Because it touches on and talks to and speaks to things that are interesting people right now, you know, like serial killers, true crime.

I mean, you know what the inside of the mind of a serial killer? Like, go on Netflix and see how many of those fucking shows exist. And that's what this is. Like it's a crime novel, sure, but it's more than that because of the way the story is told in the first person. But I think it's so amazing.

I agree to everything you just said, Chris. And what I what I kept thinking about rereading it this time is so this is nineteen to fifty two. It was only five years earlier that Mickey Spillane wrote I The Jury, which in hardcover didn't sell all that well, but in paperback just completely revolutionized the paperback you know industry, and you know, overnight bestseller and as a result, that led to the creation of you know, like Fawcett making paperback originals. This book was published by Lyon, who were one of the followers of Fawcett. They were a smaller outfit.

Um. But essentially, Jim Thompson is kind of taking the Mike Hamer character, who was a sadistic, misogynist, you know, white male figure of authority, and that's who lou Ford is. But in Mickey Spillane's world, Mike Hamera is the hero. And I do love the the Spillane books for you know, for different reasons, but it's to me, I'm just like, fuck. Thompson is just completely subverting exactly what the mystery crime fiction trend is at the moment with this book.

He's giving readers exactly what they loved in Mike Camera. But instead of pretending that Mike Camera is a hero, he's saying, this is really who you're this is who you're reading and you know, lionizing he's a sick fuck oh man, what are oh? Oh, I almost got chills. I love it, Cole and I didn't even think about that, but that's like so cool, Like what a great like insight into that um and especially because like my take with it was i've and this is also kind of speaking to what you mentioned Chris about it being completely in his head. Is that's always, to me like such a brave move when a when a writer or a filmmaker does that, because you're you're basically denying the reader or if you were any any respite, you're denying them to have even a breather from this like darkness.

And because think about with like with horror movies and even like some horror literary sometimes you'll even have almost like slight comment, like a comedic relief scene or something, and to kind of get people relaxed a little bit before you're like, oh wait, now you're back in like the bad zone. And with this book, like Thompson No, you were stuck. You were stuck with lou and it almost, like weirdly kind of reminded me of Nabokov's Lalita, because that's a book where you're pretty much stuck with Humbert Humbert and and that's not a fun place to be. But there are times where it's like, Okay, this guy's actually he's really intelligent, and with Humbert Humbert. Sometimes he's even almost kind of funny and charming, and then you're old.

But then he says something they're like, oh god, this is Oh that's right, this guy's a bed a pile like this gross, and which almost makes it more disturbing. And that's the thing is there are times where, like Thompson isn't painting, Lou is just a guard variety sociopath and she's like, oh, I'm an evil bastard. Like no, Lou's a little complicated. He's very complicated in fact, and and I love that, like there's an intelligence there like to you know, showing us, like giving us how he we find out and unravel his childhood. And the way that's done is so impactful and so so disturbing, you know, but it's like wow, like Thompson, there's like so much innate intelligence and a sort of understanding of the extremely shadow side of humanity and even ourselves.

I mean, that's the that's the kind of boys. The scariest thing is that with a certain role to dies, anybody could be could turn out to be a monster. And I think that Stacy Keach, I mean the man's size, I think is what really sells it for me, because he's a big dude. And I'm not saying that in my mind, I didn't imagine Lou Forward as a big dude. But it makes more sense that this guy can come off more jovial and kind of like a little bit of a you know, country hehaw dingis but like I mean again, like he says it, like, what's worse than a bore?

A corny bore? Folks like, and it's like, I want everyone to perceive me this way, and like I perceive Stacy Keach that way. In the movie. He does a very believable job at being that kind of gomer piled dope, right, but he could kill you with one punch apparently, like and it doesn't feel not unearned, but it doesn't feel unrealistic that this guy has a really dark side where he likes, you know, a smacking women around. I guess it's the mild way of putting it.

Killing people is a better way of putting it because it escalates. I mean, that's the other thing. I mean. The thing I also appreciate about the narrative is we don't just come to it and it's, oh, I'm a killer now, like you know, he's like, hey, this is you know, it's it's coming again. Like I can feel myself like slipping, and I can feel it falling apart and everything kind of falling apart around me.

And like I like seeing that too, that kind of progression downward to the point where he makes the decisions he makes in the book, I don't think the movie makes. I don't know, the movie makes some decisions with the narrative that I don't think necessarily work very well. I feel like in the book he's a little more calculating in the movie because we don't have the same access to like he's running commentary all the time. There are almost moments where you're like, is Stacy Keach actually normal right now? Is he what's going on?

Like you know, you know, is he slipping? Is you know, did something trigger? Was this premeditated? Or you know, is this an impulse that he couldn't control? And I like that ambiguity, and I think it gives a sense of suspense where you're like, I mean, obviously it's called the killer inside me.

You know, he's not going to turn out to be a good guy and he's not gonna not kill somebody. But I like the tension that there are moments where he could almost you could see him having like a normal life, like it's within reach. Well, and you know, again, like everybody around him is led to believe that that's what he wants. So they're all, I guess, playing along by accident, right, because again, he has no intention of of he has no intention of any ever doing any of these things. I mean, and that's the thing, you know, in the book, you get a better sense of kind of what he's trying to really accomplish.

I feel like neither this movie and obviously the remake is a different story altogether, but neither of these narratives really speak to not why so much in the seventy sixth one, but more of like a I guess it is a kind of like a why does he feel like the mask is slipping? Is made very clear in the book. In the movies, it's like he just starts killing people, like, you know, it seems less earned in the movie. To me, at least, it seems a little more uncontrolled in the movie, which isn't the character from the book. Yeah, there's definitely like there's it feels truncated in a way, and in some ways it's like, well, if you adapt any book into a movie, you're gonna have you can't unless the movie is going to be a mini series.

I mean, because even though this isn't the book itself isn't like a long book, it's still if you had all the main details, and he did in a way that's cohesive as a movie, because that's the other trick, and that's kind of like, yeah, even if something's faithful to the book, it does always mean it's going to be a good movie. Um. But uh but yeah, also like it's lose actually more likable in the movie. Weirdly enough, despite being a killer. He's like, um, but part of that I think is also Key is such a great actor that he's he's really good at showingly emotional torture in his face, even if like because some of the details, the details that are super fuzzy.

And I don't know if this is because of censorship, but I've noticed in the movie at least according it as IMDb. So Miles is gonna vary. But Julie Adams for a creature from a Black Lagoon, by the way, I got so excited. I was like, man, and still foxy, but she's credited as as his mother. But Chris the book like he never grew up with his mother, like she you know, she died when he was a baby, And it's the housekeeper that we found out was basically abusing him and molesting him as a kid and in a very very physically violent way, which is you know what kind of helped plant the seed for him to turn out the way he did.

And that's kind of handed at in the movie. But it's like in the movie, it's like it's fuzzy, like it's a's his mother. She doesn't look like a housekeeper. But there's definitely like some edible But then again, I say that, but the way that you know, we see those flashbacks is kind of well done for being It's like, well, maybe they didn't want to go full tilt with that because you're getting into some super fucking arc territory at this point, and for a movie made by you know, attached to a studios the other you know, because that's the other things I was thinking of, like seventies movies that kind of are crime movies that we're willing to kind of go extra like I would say a little extra dark, but none of them were studio like big studio films were even attached to that because like The Candy Snatchers is a film I considered that did that, which is a great movie, like Hedgehike to Hell may Well, I guess later on, like Maniac, you know, as far as like films that show also like the humanity of it.

Anybody can show a crime movie, but can you show the humanity of the monster and be like, that's not a monster at all, that's a man, and that's where you to me, that's the real meat of it. And so I guess in that response, this movie is successful. It just feels like abbreviated. Well if it feels more abbreviated in the in the second and third act. The first act feels pretty like close to the book, but it's when we start getting into the I wouldn't the minutia.

But the way that they kind of entrap lou Forward is different in the movie than it is in the book, because in the book it's pretty explicit like they go in and they're like, hey, we more or less no, you're up to no fucking good, dude, like and they more or less confront him in this it's like the John Kadine character shows up and he's like, so tell me a little bit about yourself, and it's like it's like get out of here, you spy, and it's like whoa, Like what again, Like it's just it's a weird way of trying to get us to the same place that the book does a better job of getting us too. One thing that I kept thinking as I was watching this something that's really hard about filming this book is that you see it through Lo's eyes, and I guess it's the same problem with any unreliable narrators that can you believe what you're seeing and at what point do you stop believing what you're reading?

And with Lou there's a lot of there's a sense that he's in control, he's you know, spinning these stories. People believe him, people like him, um. But then at the end you realize, like, okay, they figured this out. He didn't cover his tracks, And it's kind of hard to film that same sort of way, I think, because it's it's like everything's a little bit objectified because you're seeing it, you know, dramatic um. And so I think that's just something that's like really difficult to, you know, bring from the page to the screen that that sense of you know, at what point does lose self constructed narratives start to fall apart?

Well, and I think I think to to Heather's point, and I think Colin you would probably agree, this is the kind of thing that would be better suited in a television or miniseries application where you can actually give the audience time to grow and understand lou Forward as a character, because I mean, if you want to do this right, you really need to give the character time to kind of spill out across the screen every in every direction, because you need to be kind of all enveloped in the insanity of this character. Because again, that's what the book feels like. It feels like you're just trapped in his head listening to him just bed the dead, then that just go on and again It's that's what makes it so good, is like it's just never ending with this fucking guy.

And you know, like what it reminded me of as another book that I read last year, which was American Psycho, which is very much just the Killer Inside Me but for all the yuppies, because it's the same thing, but in that it's like, well, is any of this happening? And again there's that bullshit that bullshit doesn't really apply here, but in the hands of somebody else it might have. It might have been like how much of this is happening. But that's the thing that I appreciate about this versus American Psycho is this takes a very hard stance at like this stuff is happening. This isn't just like him recounting tales of things he may have done.

This is like you're seeing him beat the shit out of people, shoot people point blank, stab them, choked them, kill them, like we're seeing it and it's incontrovertible because the other characters are reacting to it. That's the thing about American cycle, right, it's like, well, we don't you know, we don't know. He's just saying these things, and like you said, call him with an unreliable narrator. That's where you get into trouble. I feel like here they don't get into trouble because that's not what Jim Thompson's interested in.

But maybe another storyteller could come to this story and bring a little bit of that, because I think that in if you were doing this story now, would be a welcome addition to this story if you were telling it in a maybe more contemporary setting, because that's the other thing. Could you retell this story in a contemporary setting or does it hap to be in nineteen fifty two to work? I think you could tell it in twenty twenty three, right, And so that opens up some more avenues where you can do some things with this narrative. But I mean, you know, again, for all of the faults of this movie, it does truncate a very somewhat kind of convoluted narrative towards the end because again, like the way they're catching him in the book, it's like a lot of things in literature, it doesn't work very well when it's filmed.

It's just not as compelling. It just can't be. It just can't be as compelling because it's people talking, but like not in a dialogue way. It's like a them kind of expounding way. Yeah.

What did you guys think of Don Stroud's performance as Elmer? Because I feel like Elmer was the character that felt markedly different to me in the film versus how I perceived him in the book. I love Don Stroud and what he does with that character, he makes them such I mean, such an asshole that we've all seen before and hopefully don't have them in our close circle of friends. But just seeing him at you know, on the jobs that he's being a dick to the workers, you know, then he's at the bar and he's just being a dick to women, and then you see him in jail and he's being a racist prick. It's just like, this guy is just such an ass and he plays it, you know, turns the dial to eleven to use the cliche since you know, Lou Forward, if he had seen spinal tap, would probably use that he has a perfect shit eating grin that Don Stroud doesn't mean that that top top teeth smile thing.

That is just oh, he's just like shit eating shit eating grin of shit eating grin. But he also and I think this is him as an actor at least, I feel bad for him because he's kind of pathetic with how much he actually believes Joyce loves him and how much he believes that Lou is his friend. I'm just I just kind of like ached from being like, man, I shouldn't feel bad for you, but like, God damn, you're such a dick, but like these people are playing you, and like Lou has something even like worse in mind than you could ever imagine. And I felt worse for Elmer in the book because Elmer in the book does seem just kind of like it just seems almost more like a little pathetic in a way, like kind of more sad where I don't know, I mean it, Don Stroud's great in though stuff, so I definitely have a problems, but his Elmer is like I mean, he basically is like even when they say no, they really want it.

All women want it, and it's like, you know what, maybe this guy needs to go. Like it's like maybe I'm on team Blue for a second here because it's like, holy shit, this raping redneck who's also yeah, like he said, racist, harassing, you know, the poor Johnny and it's it's like yeah, god, but yeah he does, he does. He does great, and it's like but yeah, it's like him was Susan's tyroll. I love it when he gives her the necklace and he is like such a like a dumb orny dog in a way that you're like he's like, I got your necklace and she's like she's just like, oh, yeah, yes you did. And he's like like like asking her to say thank you for a second, doesn't even before you said so it's like I got something for you.

And she thinks it's like a joke about it. It's like, yeah, I know that's what they all say. Yeah, it's just like let me finish my coffee. My girlfriend loved that line. She just cracked up.

I mean she cracked up every time Susan Tyrell opened her mouth because Susan is just amazing. She's so good with her gold painted toenails. I live for this woman. I was, and I yeah, it's almost like man like choice is so great. I mean, in some ways she gives Joyce a dignity here that I think if another actress had been booked to play her, because I mean, realistically, Joyce in this film, if we took Susan Tyrelle out of the quotient, So is she given a lot of depth without the actress?

Probably not, but Susan brings the depth. She brings it and just like I'm like a master like a mistress and so great. So yeah, it's like poor poor Elmer. But at the same time not poor. Yeah, it's like, oh well, I think there's more to Joyce's character in this movie in the book.

I mean yeah, would you would? Yeah? I mean again, like I think she's I think to her, there's point she's like, because you have an actress who actually has like an interesting look to her and looks already kind of not like just you know, not the way Tisha Sterling looks. Let's just put it that way. You have something to kind of grab onto, and then Susan Tyrrell doesn't let go, and I again, like you mentioned Heather, like that's the sign of someone who not only knows what they're doing, but has a better grasp of the source material than this kind of deserves, because again, they give her a lot to do, but in a lot of wayses like I kind of I wanted more of this, honestly.

I mean, I think that's kind of one of the big things I think we could take away from this automatically is I want another thirty minutes here of this for sure, and also coincidentally should bring this up. I would like this to actually get a release that's easy to find, seriously, because on YouTube is fine for everybody right now being all freebe freebe And I'm just as glad as everybody else that we can share the magic of streaming through platforms like YouTube, because Indian cinemas all over YouTube, so I can't complain about it, but I can complain that there's no other way to find it than YouTube, because it's like some dude uploaded it to YouTube a couple of years ago. Otherwise we might be talking about that Casey Affleck movie.

Go quickly back to Susan tyrrelle Heau. I think there's there's a lot of moments that were written for her character in this movie that weren't in the book. And I everything they add I think is great, Like the scene with her like and like painting her toenails, as like the introduction and you just see, you know, lou Forard just like staring at her feet and she has such a command of power and she's like, yeah, blow on them, kiss my feet, Like that's not how she's introduced in the book, and like at that moment, like goddamn, she has power, she has control over lou Ford. It's moments like that where it's just like her character. It's like I believe that she would survive as a like backwoods Texas sex worker.

She's got a gum, but she doesn't need it. She's tough, She's dealt with a lot of bullshit. She anyway, I absolutely love the way they you know, expand her character for the movie and christ to your point, yes, another half hour of Susan Tyrrell. If there's any outtakes, can we just put them? Put them in the movie.

Seriously, Yeah, she's great. I mean again and again, like in a lot of ways, her character takes the place of the Amy character because it feels like the Amy character in the movie is just like an kind of a weird afterthought, which it's fine, But of the two performances, the one that obviously stands out is the Susan Tyrell performance. Titia Sterling is fine, but I think that's kind of a character that it seems like maybe they didn't know quite what to do with here because the couple times between her and Stacy Keach, they don't they don't have a lot of chemistry. And again, like I know, oh that that's kind of the point in a lot of ways, like meta textually, that's the point. It's like, well, they're together but like realistically, like this guy in her like no fucking way, but like it's they don't have a lot of chemistry on screen together unfortunately.

And look, they don't give her much, which is fine, but it's kind of a shame because it's there's a reason that character is in the book, because it's a it's an integral part of not only the story but kind of the themes of what the book is getting at, and they kind of miss the boat on that with her in the movie. At least, it's sort of his cover for being normal. Oh he's dating the school teacher, right, it's his beard in a lot of ways. Yeah, yeah, No, it's with this film's release now because it looks like like at one point somebody put a DVD of it, which but the DVD looks bootleg as hell. Like I remember at one point years ago, Walmart used to have like a dollar bin, like a one dollar bin, and these were all like public domain movies with these horrible I mean, not even photoshop.

I don't know what. It's a sky of the cut and paste of these covers. But that's what the DVD release of this film looks like. And it's it's a shame. I mean, at least we do have it on YouTube, and that's how I mean, definitely how I watched it.

I think that's how we all watched it probably, but you can tell, like there's some great cinematography, but the print and that's not the YouTube's fault, but because like this is obviously a film that has not been cared for, uh like The Prince Murky, and it's like, yes, I mean with all, I mean, we're in an era where we're seeing very obscure films, way more obscure than this one. Get these glorious releases, which is awesome, but you know, can we get this one? I mean, you know, especially because I think stay is Stacy Key is still with us, right yeah, thank god? Oh hey yeah yeah, get Don Strove but we still have I mean I wish Susan was still with us, but but also like, yeah, like come on, let's get a let's get a nice blu ray of this film.

Let's get this This puppy kind of buffed up the file I watched. I don't know if this is the same one that's on YouTube, but it was clearly a something that had been originally cropped for YEP. For TV and then cropped again to the widescreen. It's real bad, it's rough. I mean, it's again to Heather's point, like it's the best with what we've got.

And here's the crazy thing, Cullen, this is actually this is a callback. Do you remember when you programmed a month a couple of years ago and you picked the kill Off? Yep, this is that exact say, this is a much better movie by like leaps and bounds. Like I feel personally, I get if if it's not your cup of tea in that regard better or worse, But in regards to the availability and quality of the version that we're watching, I didn't. I didn't have any sort of like knock against this movie in that category.

I didn't like hold that against this movie because like again, like in a lot of ways, we have to deal with what we have at the time. But to Heather's point, like we're in twenty twenty three, like stream fuck at everything. Frankly, uh, this is this movie I think deserves to be lauded just as much as the Killoff does, because, like Jim Thompson's stuff is few and far between, and in terms of quality, again, with the Killer Inside Me being adapted twice, the second one is so bad. The first one deserves to be reappraised, just on the fact that we're probably not getting another readaptation anytime soon. This is such a better version that it would be nice if Keno or Arrow or Shout Factory or Scream Factory or you know, five Nights at Freddie's fucking Fast Better Factory or whatever, because they're all there's a new one every week.

I mean, there are these are constantly existing. What's the name of the one that does that? Did Maha call the Indian Nightmare on ELM stream? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, like again, like there are so many At this point, it's like, how how does something like this not get some attention?

And it's directed by Bert Kennedy, the director of Suburban Commando. Oh my god. Oh speaking of Jim Thompson movies that thankfully have gotten more easy to see, easier to see um Syrie Noir, the adaptation of Hell of a Woman was never on video or a DVD, and then I think last year Film Movement put out a blu ray of it. Oh I need to get that because I saw the trailer for that while prepping for this episode, and that looks fire. That is good.

That movie is amazing. So Film Movement put out in twenty twenty April twenty twenty. But um, yeah, that like every year or two that would play in New York in a thirty five print in you know, one screening, and it would always have a ton of people at it because it was like a lot of word of mouth. It was like there's no other way to see it unless you can find a bootleg video. Um, hopefully it'll continue to come to the city as a print, but um, for the rest of the country in the world, like there's now a beautiful blu ray.

Yeah, that restoration looks gorgeous too, Like that's something I would love to see for this film, Like it's you know, it's it's so weird, just like and I mean, who knows. I know there was like some some rights issues because it's like recording they've hel up my notes. Um, I believe it might have been on a fis right up at this movie on the website. But Warner Brothers originally had acquired the rights the film rights for the book in sixty eight. But I know by the time this film came out, it looks like it was released by MGM and MGM.

Yeah, So I don't I don't know if it's like maybe it's a thing where just I mean, that's the thing is some of these studios they have like lesser known titles that they just kind of sit on and just let them languish. Um. But I don't know, maybe those rights have lapsed at this point. It's it's hard to tell. And I'm not I'm not the best when it comes to legality with these things because I'm just very like the side of my brain that's like, is it right brain that is all are in creativity and the left brain's technical or is it the other way around.

I have no idea I know either whichever one that's like not good with technical shit, that's me. That is my brain, that is my entire brain. But but I don't know. It just it would be nice and especially because I mean there's certain cult titles that that it's like, Okay, there's certain films we know we're never gonna like they're not in danger of going out a print anytime soon. You know.

It's like, yeah, I love Evil Dead, but I think we're safe to have a great copy of Evil Dead at this point, you know, and that's awesome, that's wonderful. I complaint, but it's like, why isn't this I mean, there's so many movies like that. I mean, granted, something's better than nothing. I remember actually sharing a copy of Roger Watkins American Babble On with a friend of mine and he quitn't finish it because he was like, oh, the print's not good, and it's like, but this is all we have. And I mean you could make out what was going on.

It wasn't like a tenth generation you know, do It's just like it's obviously ripped from a VHS tape that was moderately taken care of. I mean, sometimes that's the best you can get. But but you know, so many films are coming out, which is wonderful, Like, yeah, of course I say this. I can't even afford keeping up. I feel like at this point we have to take out loans just to keep up with all the great stuff coming out from all the boutiques, for all the fictique labels.

It's a wealth of riches. Like there's just awesome. And that's why I say, like so many of these things, it's like I can I kind of find it hard to believe that they won't get a release at some point because again, like I don't know, I feel like with the amount of content coming out and the amount of things being adapted just in general, and the amount of authors whose things haven't been adapted enough or you know, kind of taken in milked dry, Jim Thompson's Stuff's already been adapted, so it's already two thirds of the way there, Like your stuff's already been done, which means the door is already open. It's just whether or not people want to go through it again. So I don't know.

Like the thing, the thing that does, you know, strike me as kind of odd is this didn't get any sort of reappraisal when the twenty ten movie came out, Like this didn't already get a Blu ray or something, because again, like that would have been the time would have been when the remake came out. It's like, oh, see the original and then see the remake. I mean again, like I don't think they advertise the remake for shit. Anyways, I don't think they knew what to do with that movie. But in a lot of ways, like I don't think they know now what to do with this movie other than let it languish in a vault somewhere just literally sitting there, because that's that's literally what's going on, right, It's just sitting in their Warner Brothers or MGM or whoever has its vault.

A print of it hopefully is just existing, which is what they would hopefully use to remaster this, because yeah, again, just like the killoff, it's like Jim Thompson, this is like, these things exist, somebody cares, not just Cullen, not just me, not just you, Heather. There are plenty of other people that like Jim Thompson's writing and want to see other people's takes on it absolutely well, and especially because it's you know, even separate from the literary connection, I think this is a really fascinating entry in the whole nineteen seventies sort of subgenre of you know, crime like criminal psychology type movies, you know, the seventies. To me, like when I think of films that, you know, whether it's you know, which I think, I mean, you could call this a horror movie.

It's more horrific than a serial killer. Yeah, but I don't think people call it that. It's almost like it's, oh, it's more respectable, so we'll call it a crime movie. It's like Silence of the Layups. Oh it's a it's a thriller.

It's like I think you can call the horror movie. It's fine, You're fine, okay, But movies don't win oscars, Heather, we all know this, come on, come on, no. But the seventies had like such a great because I think as a you know, people being able to push the boundaries of what we could show in film, you know, like you had you know, the R rated, expanded the X rating before it became triple X, and so you get films like The Candy Snatchers and The Killer Inside Me, and it's to me, it's just like such a fascinating era. The Psychopath AKA and Eye for an Eye, which is another film that is in dire need of a great release, um, which is about a kids show who ends up murdering abusive parents. And it's a great movie.

Um. I wrote about it years ago for Dangerous Minds and that's one goodness I would I would kill to have that on on even just a DVD. Just it needs it needs to be restored and put out there. But um, but yeah, I mean I think The Killer Inside Me makes a great pairing with any of those. It's it's a it's a you know, it's not a perfect movie, but I don't think it deserves some of the negative reviews that I've read.

You know, sometimes when people are like, oh, this movie, this movie isn't good or it sucks, I'm like, have you seen bad movies? Like, because I feel like if you're into them, we've all seen movies that were way, way way like the remake, Like the remake. I mean, I can't even understand watching this movie and knowing that the remake exists and then going well, I'm gonna go watch that movie and then going like, you know, like this is a perfectly serviceable adaptation of the book. This is like my fourth or fifth viewing, and each one I like it more and more. And it doesn't go far enough, right, Like it just doesn't go honestly, Like with the we haven't really talked about it, but you kind of brought it up, like the violence isn't enough.

It should be more. Movie is like our rated? Is it not? Like I is it our rating? I'm fine with them.

I'm fine with the violence, Like with the level it is, like, I don't think it's necessary. I don't, huh. I mean, I just kind of feel like maybe there should have been a little I feel like some of the some of the impactful moments kind of just happen, like the thing with Amy where she just gets like one punch man out of existence and not even like as big of a punch like at least with a God with Chris, we sound terrible, we selling monster. It's that way, I'm like, but it's just a it's a narrative. It's a narrative thing for me where it's just like I don't know, like that I need for me again and again, maybe it's just what I want from the book is a little bit different than what Bert Kennedy and Ed Mann and Robert Chambley were wanting to give us from the book.

And that's the thing, Like again, that's what I mean. I don't like Salinger as a person, but in a lot of ways I agree with Salinger's idea that like adapting things kind of ruins them in a lot of ways and not ruins them, but it plants that seed in your head of what somebody else's adaptation is, and that can kind of disrupt the flow of your own ability to conjure it up in your brain and see who you think would be, or conjure up those characters how they feel to you. So I agree with Salander in that way, because there are things in this adaptation that when I think about my version of it or what I would want, it's not the same. And again that's more a me issue, not this movie issue. Like that's the thing.

Like, I think this movie is really good frankly for what it is, and the like level of competency behind the camera too, because it's William a fraker who's no slouch. I mean, Jesus Jesus Christ, he's no such to say he's no slouch is like, oh yeah, you mean the guy who was behind the camera for such classics as Tombstone, Yeah yeah, or the oft maligned Vegas Vacation, the best of the vacation movies. That's a hot take nobody needed. But actually I think the hottest take would be Christmas Vacation two. That's oh my god, do you like that movie?

No? Oh no, I'm just saying if somebody is going to have a hot oh that's fair. Yeah, I was like you wit, are you? Are you coming out with this hot take? No?

Oh, Brandy Quaid returns and the role you've always wanted. Yeah, No, And I love Randy Quaid before he lost his mind, Like Randy Quaid was a great actor, but no, Randy Quaid always had lost what if it was always lost his mind? I wonder that. Oh sorry, sorry, Colin, No, no, no, finish your thought and I'll have a Randy Quaid for I have the same thought about a number of actors because it's like when I watch a James Wood's movie from the eighties, I'm like, man, James Wood is like such a great act and he was like he was legit, like he's a great actor. But now I'm like, you know, he probably always was a piece of shit.

But I mean, that's the thing. That's the fascinating thing about humanity is that people. People can be terrible people but still do something that's really amazing, which is kind of beautiful in a really twisted, oddly poetic Yes, but no, but I want to hear your Randy Quaid things. So, speaking of adaptations and things that are hard to find, a movie I've been wanting to see for years is the late eighties adaptation of Frederick Brown's novel Martians Go Home, starring Randy Quaid. And I think I finally found like on YouTube, like a VHS rip.

Thank you to see this. By the way, I saw like the info on Wikipedia for this movie and it looked wild and I hadn't looked any further into it. So I'm glad to know that it's like somewhat lost media. And maybe you want to do an episode? Are that didn't look bananas?

Do you ever want to? Please let me know so the book, because I don't know if the how well the movie you know, adheres to it. But the premise of the original novel is what if martians invaded Earth, but instead of terrorizing us, they just stood in the corner, watching us go about our normal everyday activities and then laughing at us because we're fucking stupid morons. But then when we try to chase them, they can like disappear through walls. So martians just come and troll.

That's all they do. And it's the funniest book. I love Frederick Brown so much, and there's a guy. Are you all fans of his? I know, I know one of the things he wrote was the I know he wrote the Arena episode of Star Trek, which is you know, I mean, if you're gonna if you're gonna reference a Star Trek episode, right, like, that's a pretty that's a pretty good one obviously.

Yeah. So Brown's interesting because he has two, well sort of three concurrent careers doing mystery, sort of horror ish mystery, and sci fi. For his crime novels. Um one of them was The Screaming Mimi, which became not only the Screaming Mimi movie, but that's what Argento adapted uncredited for m Bird with the crystal plumage. I'm getting I'm getting funny looks from you, Chris, I have no no I and you're anyway.

Frederick Brown is great, very wacky, uh you know, sense of humor, very dark for the crime novels. His sci fi could sometimes be very funny. We'll have to watch it because I saw that. I saw some stuff and I was like, what the fuck is this movie? I look.

I love Randy Quaid, but that's because of Freak, because Elijah Scugs is my spirit animal. Oh my god, I love Freaks so much. That's like, that's talk about talk about chef's kiss, like that's oh God, and it's and like it's a good movie. But Randy Quaid just like he makes it like he he just there's nothing about that performance that is something you've ever seen before or since. It's so fucking weird and he's perfect.

Oh it's masterful. Um, you know what's funny. I've never seen Martians Go Home, but I vividly remember the cover art for the VHS tape because um, one of the video stores I've frequent as a kid had it in the comedy section and I was always like, fablix, So goofy like you're described the book you're describing sounds great, Like it sounds like completely at my alley. As far as readings, do you guys have to to let me, I'm curious about the movie when I when I think of yeah right and quah yeah yeah, a vach like like a movie that is definitely like a cult movie dealing with eighty like aliens from the eighties. I would like to see that has no DVD or blue I released his Euphoria like Ufo Aria with Cindy Williams, and because everything I've ever read about that sounds really quirky and charming, and I've always wanted to see it.

It played here in New York I think a couple of times recently and I missed it, and it's it's on my list things to track down. Same same, So if any boutique labels are listening, we've given you guys a few suggestions. And also there's some lovely people on here that would do a great job giving you supplements. Brank, especially Colin with the like the publishing and literary knowledge like I love hearing. I love hearing that because I need to.

I love reading, and it's something I don't make enough time to do as an adult as a writer. Ironically enough like that. Uh but yeah, like that's um. So Yeah, anyways, you're welcome, labels, and if and if not, if not the Killer inside Me, at least Suburban Commando, come on, Christ the Bears, the minimum of Bert Kennedy film folks, come on, that's here and you're welcome. Come on.

I'm surprised Keino hasn't done Suburban Commander. That seems very in line with a lot of their releases that I and I fully support that aspect of them. I mean, it has Shelley Duval, Chris Lloyd, you know, Terry Bolia tis Christian name. What do you know what that means? You know, brother Brutie is somewhere in that Gas and Undertakers in that movie as well.

Why are you serious? Yeah, Boogaret isn't that movie? Oh my god, it's an if. It was. An early podcast that I did for this show was Suburban Commando and that I love that movie.

I had a VHS of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles two Secret of the Ooze that had some commercials on it. One was for Burger King Kids Club. One was for a movie called Big Girls, Don't Cry They Get Even, which I covered with Mike White a couple of years ago. It's terrible and then came out. Yeah that movie shit, it's and it has Griffin done in it too, which is a real bummer.

And David Straherne as well. It's it's not it the trailer makes it look fun, and Colin you would agree it is not a fun film. It's I have no memory of this movie other than I know I saw it when it came out. I mean, I feel like that gives you all enough you need to know. But there was also an ad for Suburban Commando, and that's I just remember seeing the ad and I finally watched the movie as an adult, and boy seen it?

Have you ever seen it? I've just seen clips over. I think, didn't you play me? Yeah? I was fro in today as a great one, and then like, I don't know, ho Hogan in that movie is great?

I love I'm trying to think what was the action scene you played for where they were on a stairwell and a guy like he throws a guy off a stairwell and it's got this music attached to it. That's really it might be Suburbrian Commando. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's just weird that it's like a Burt Kennedy movie. The guy who directed this and also but not limited to Dirty dingis McGhee.

That's a I like the movie. I got a poster of it's somewhere in my apartment always. I just like that Dirty dingis McGhee. I think I've called some about that before. Featuring Frank Sinatra as a cowboy.

There you go, there you go. Yeah, but real quick though, I do have to touch upon with this with the seventy six killer inside me one thing I wish I would change, And you guys may disagree with me, and that's fine, because I've saw some people note in their reviews that they loved this I did not like the soundtrack. It's not a deal breaker. I still think the movie's great. But I remember seeing somebody said, oh, this movie feels a little TV movie the week, and it doesn't.

The movie doesn't at all, but the music does. In my opinion. The music's very like, you know, I don't know, like up next on eight is enough. I don't know. It just feels like that to me.

Is the most dated thing about this movie is the is the soundtrack. I don't I didn't care for it, But what did you guys think? I could be completely talking out of my my, my boutet as opposed to brother Boutet. Listen here, brother boute. I actually I did like the score, but I especially love the final music cue when lou Ford is like outside in the rain and he makes eye contact with Joyce in the police car and then all of a sudden, like the like you know, brothel jazz music kicks in and he's like slowly approaching.

It's just yeah, a little uh not the most obvious or it's a little uh, I'm forgetting how to speak English right now. It's a bit of a contrast, but I really liked I just was so into it. I'm like, Okay, I'm getting into his mind. He's he's getting his groove on. He's he's getting a little horny.

He's getting a little horny to kill. Oh my god, great name for a band. Horny to kill, Horney Kill. I would go kill, I will, I would go see that. I would go see that band.

You should start Horney kill or Horny to kill. I think it wasn't horny to kill, like with that on Cinemax was Shannon Tweed And or conversely to kill horny to question Mark? Is that like two legits a quit. It's like death to Smoochie, to kill horny, but it's a question I love the question Mark. I think the soundtrack is indicative of someone who works in TV, right because if you look at John Rubinstein, he's worked in plenty of TV.

So I don't know, like those those two together kind of bring like a TV sensibility. I don't know. It's kind of in contrast because it feels like it's it's trying to still be like, oh, well, he's the good guy, but it's like it's obvious that he's not. And like, yeah, I don't know, it didn't get in the way for me, but I wish it had. Maybe.

I don't know. I get where you're coming from for sure. Yeah, I mean yeah, I'm like, it's not a deal breaker, but I feel like it's a small element, but one of the elements that keeps this film from being, you know, like a full on kind of masterpiece. It's still a great film, but I feel, you know, I don't know, it could have been. It could have been even better, But you know what, a really great film is still a really great film, and it's better than Casey Affleck the Affleck in a fucking cowboy hat.

I just I can't see horror. Everybody can't. I cannot have an Affleck. Now. I recently watched the film Fire in the Sky, which is about the Travis Walton abduction, which took place in the seventies in Arizona.

Another one I saw back when I came out that I don't really remember. I saw it. I remember the abduction scene that because I woke up to that as a kid and it freaked me out because my mother and my then he's my pappy now, but my stepfather, who was just then my mother's boyfriend, had rented it and I fell asleep on the couch like kind of behind them, and I woke up during that abduction when the aliens are testing him on that and there's like slime and shit and I'm like twelve, and I was like, oh, it's scared, scared me. So I mentioned that because in that movie they have Peter Berg doing a Southern accent and it is I forgot. We'll see I slept during that part.

Yeah, unless unless he was lout. No, don't know that. To me, it's real, it's it's it's real, it's real bad. And so Casey Affleck trying to do a Southern accent smacks of that. It is very like the whole like talk and so and slow like yeah, it's like that's creepy, Like you're already painting a picture for us that is not part of the book's makeup.

And that's the thing that Burke Kennedy withholds smartly in this is like he lets Stacy Keach do the work, and Stacy Keach in doing that work does a better job than Casey Affleck ever could, because Casey Affleck is already a creep. Now I'm not talking about him as a person allegedly, I'm talking about that affectation that he comes up with for the character Lou Forward, which is this bullshit and it's like and then Stacy Keaches Lou Forward is just a shit heel, Like he's just the fucking shit heel, and like that's the intent of the character. And Casey Affleck doesn't seem like a guy putting on a facade. He just seems like that guy, Lou Forward, Stacy Keaches lu Forward is putting on a facade. And it drops right at the end in the finale that again, I still think works better in the book.

But this is a good compromise. Yeah yeah. Also, like I just Athlete doesn't have gravitas. Like that's the thing is that you, especially when you're adapting a work, like a work like A Killer Inside Me, something that that heavy, you need actors that have that gravitas to them, you know. And that's the thing this cast does.

I mean Keenan, when of even John Carroty and who's in this for like five minutes, like you're getting people that have a natural sort of like pull about them as as an actor, as the President's like, it's not just that, oh they're you know. That's why I love character actors so much in general, is because you know, they just they're able to flesh anything out and add something special and um, they're never bland. But in a world where all the characters do kind of ring true like they do in the Thompson novel, um, it's so important to have a great cast that have that that natural pull to them, and they do. And it was so nice to see because I think the last thing I saw Keenan went in was The Dark and which isn't that eight, But like there's a line where he says something about your pants and the like hearing Keenan Wynn talk about a woman's pants has haunted me.

So this was a great kind of like mouthwash to kind of get that out of my brain for a little bit. And he was great. I mean, it's Keenan Win. Chris is great. But yeah, as Conway, I thought that was that was actually that was casting.

I'm like, yeah, that that tracks, that tracks. He's a good old boy real well, that kind of good old boy, the total nuts swinging kind, the kind of says like, is it just gonna be you girls staying with this? Like, and that's me doing a bad Southern accent. Come back in the kitchen and I'll tell you when to come out. Whoa you know?

Weirdly enough, I don't know if you know this clent. Chris said that to me on our second episode. Many things like Steven Tagali and Cornal get there, you ass back in the god Dave kitchen. And anytime I make a hot hot take, christ has shakes his head and has into texting, comes out and he's like, hey, saddle up, saddle up and get on at it. I don't see no babies on that floor.

A right, man. The South loves to be a punching bag, don't they. Well, yes, if you live in the South, you have to choke about it. Yeah, I'm from Georgia. See so you feel it.

You got out though, good for you and Chris got out. They do it to themselves. Yeah, but you know you mentioned it though. There's this there's this weird subtext of the killer inside me, and you kind of mentioned at culin where it's like or I guess Heather and both of you kind of touched on it. This idea of like the South is just different, and Thompson captures that in the book really well, where it's like everybody's kind of just in everybody else's business all the time, and everybody knows everybody and everybody knows everything, and that is not the way it is a lot of places, but like where I live now in the Midwest, it still has that feel to it.

So the facade that he's putting on, that lou Ford is putting on, it's believable because I know people like this, like the facade part. I know people like this. Whether or not there's a killer inside them is a different question. I don't think there is, obviously, or I fucking hope not sure, right, But like that's the that is the subtextual thing about this. It's like, if you live somewhere like this where plenty of people are like this, that's the really scary part.

That's the really horrifying part. That's the real kind of message that Jim Thompson's getting at. It's like it could be anybody. Yeah, your friendly neighborhood police officer, that's you're supposed to be able to look up to and trust, and I mean the irts Throughout the book, A couple of times people keep coming to him to do illegal things, and you know, at least at one point he says, well, no, I'm not gonna do that because that would be that would be wrong. There's some really like super super super dark humor in the book I've done at a moment's like that where it's just like, what the It's so good?

Yeah, I love Thompson's humor. Have you all read The Golden Gizmo? No? But it's on my les. I'm like, I'm now like I have to read everything Thompson, Like I'm so fully converted right now.

I really want to reread that. I remember loving it. I've only read it once. But it has a talking dog in one scene. Yes, And it's a book that I said, I don't hear thompson fans talk about it, and if it does get mentioned, it's usually like, oh, it's a lesser work, And I'm like, it's Jim Thompson writing about a fucking talking dog, Like how could you not love that?

Like if you like Thompson, like, it's also do you not like fun? All right? And it's not it's not a main character. It's not like you're gonna be watching a best friend from Heaven the Christofferson movie. But um, I think it's in a couple of scenes.

But anyway, I just remember being a really bonkers, s real nutty Jim Thompson crime story, and I'm like, it's it's everything you like about Thompson's I give a plug for the Golden gizmo, and then the dog clocks a woman across the face. I don't remember. Does that happen? I don't know, just hard I think, And then he said, where's my where's my beer? Woman?

Well, I don't know. I would say whatever lou Ford would say, would you. I mean, clocks are real hard punches here, you know the way lou Ford likes. Yeah, I love Jim Thompson. You know, I'm so glad Colin that you have turned me onto now two of his movies.

Because again, in the interim time between the Killoff and Now, I read The Killer Inside Me, which again, like you like we've kind of repeated here, Like I don't know, Colin, you probably I kind of wanted to ask you this to end this episode, because I think you're the one to ask if if someone is getting into reading Jim Thompson or wants the easy easy on road and then maybe the intermediate on road, what are we talking the killer inside me? Or is there something else that maybe speaks to Jim Thompson Jim Coombson as an author. I mean that's up there, Pop twelve eighty. It's another you know, sort of sheriff you know, Western eve law enforcement, dark twisted murder story. Um, hell of a woman I would put up there, which is about a sleazy door to door salesman who goes to a house and I think the woman who runs it wants to buy some silverware and doesn't have any money, but she's like, I have like a you know, like a fourteen year old daughter.

And he's like all right, And then he meets the daughter and she's like, there's a bunch of money in the basement. So he's like, cool, you and I got a team up to kill your mom and fourteen year old and a sleazy salesman trying to kill a mom to steal her safe. That's that's Sara Noir, right, Yeah, Okay, that's right. Um yeah. Pop twelve eighty was adapted as Couta Torshaw.

The French just have a better grasp of adapting Jim Thompson than the Americans. Is that what's going on here? I think so kind of seems like it's it's so crazy like with like I was fastly in European like countries or filmmakers or a like are so drawn to these extremely American because Thompson's super American. Look at Bukowski, there's been a number of like, you know, almost auvery Bukowski film adaptation is made by somebody from Europe. I mean, the best Bukowsk adaptations.

Barfly, that's Barbie Schroeder or Schrader? Is it Schroeder or Schrader? Is it? I know how to spell it. I know how to spell it.

I've always said straighter, but I've never I don't know I can spell it as well. Anyways, maybody he gives me go off, you know what? At least I know who he is. Great, great filmmaker. Yeah, it's great filmmaker and bar Flies of Masterpiece.

I love that movie. He's got such an interesting filmography. It's like, oh, so many sort of like unexpected turns, and they're all whenever he makes it turns like that's good. I mean, he made a documentary about Dammee and bar Fly, like holy oh, just love Love Barbey. He worked on all those Eric Romere movies.

Then didn't he He didn't he do one of the nineties Sandra Bullock movies. Oh that sounds so familiar. I'm trying to one. Was it Murdered by numbers? Shit?

That's right? Movies that bad? It's got Michael Michael Shannon. What's that kid? The kid from a Hannibal and Boardwalk Empire who's like Michael Pitt, the guy who's like really allegedly hard to work with.

Good actor though, I mean nosis from fucking headwig. Yeah, and and better better than kaf He. You know, he could be good. He could have you know, he could have He kind of has that energy to him, Michael Pitt. I mean, he has that kind of like far away.

It would be a different take on lou Forward, but it wouldn't be an unwelcome interpretation. Hannah has like an interesting look to him just right out of the gate. Yeah. Maybe it's just I don't know. I mean, I'd like to be fair, like, you know, I still think John Goodman would be a good lou forward as well.

Again different direction though Michael Pitt as Elmer. Oh wow, like Elmer's so pretty now? Actually John Goodman, No, yeah, that's hitting me more and more. And I did picture John Goodman as one of the characters while reading it, but I puntured him as Conway. He was my Conway, Like every time I read fiction, I always because I have a film brain that's always have like how would I make this movie?

And but John Goodman is so good at being like the most lovable dude and also being the most terrifying right, Like sob you could ever be in a room with, Like she's basically imposing, like six foot two or something like it's a big dude too, Like you feel like he punched you and you will like that's the thing, Like Stacy keeps one punching someone. It's believable because he's a big dude. Like you get punched by this guy, He's probably also not getting up because you also don't want to get punched again. If we were to go back to nineteen fifty two, what about Mitchem as Ford? Oh sure, um oh that's perfect right, Like that's like the perfect casting.

Like I feel like he could do the cornball hokum kind of insincere, so when people listening are just like, is this guy for real saying this cornball bullshit? But I also be scary and he's very tall. Well, I'm gonna ask you, would you cast to the movie based on the facade or the serial killer part, because for me, I'm casting it based off of the facade. Essentially, you have to have someone to like land that facade way harder because the serial killer bits easy to do realistically, like well, I'll just say weird shit, but like in a slow cadence, like you know what I mean, Like it's there, there, there, there, There's a lot. It's an easier direction to go.

It's hard to be effortlessly charming, but that's the point of the book. He's you know, he's the podunk share, you know, deputy, Like he has to be the nice guy, Like you can't have the scary sheriff, right, it's Deputy Dewey from Scream. I mean, okay, now there's a casting. I want Dave Sheridan as Wit. Now that was from scary movie.

I mean that would be also equally. I mean David kind of I'm a David Arkutt bart I like David Arquette, honestly David Arquette again, basing it solely off of like that kind of energy. Again, like you have to have a guy who's a believable dope to be able to have that turn where it's like he's not a fucking dope though, he's a monster, like a total fucking monster. And like John, like I don't know John Goodman. When I was reading the book, I was like, this is John Goodman, like totally just as like, well, I've got this dark, horrible secret inside of me, but hey, you think I'm a nice guy, but it peeks through.

You gotta have that ability to like let it peek through without letting letting it out completely. But again, I get the sense in the book that everybody around him is not as fooled as he thinks they are, right, especially as as it goes when he gets to the end or torres Sand, especially when it all just really unravels. It's like, Ahhny, I didn't like, yeah, everybody knew Johnny's Like I didn't want to. You know, you don't get paid much, Lou just wanted to, you know, let you figure out where you got the money. I can't blame you, you know.

Oh, and I like that we don't see them realizing, like Orgust him realizing it, like it just happens. But like in a lesser narrative, it'd be like we'd have we would have the scene of the characters talking off screen, oh you know what lou is up to da In the book, they don't have any of it in the other narratives. They've kind of had to pad that out so that we see those scenes. But the book is so smart and that just like we just it just kind of happened and Lou. We are as kind of surprised as Lou is, because again, with an unreliable narrator, we're being led to believe he is perfect at what he's doing, because that's his high high esteem of himself, is that he's able to, you know, pull a dexter really, because again that's what we're talking about here, is like fooling everybody, and he's you're not fooling anyone, bro, apparently.

Well that's always what gets That's what gets you caught too, is that you know the coy you know, you get cocky. That's god, I sound creepy saying that I'm sorry, I don't mean it, and then you send your floppy disk to the to the cops and then they find you and then they yeah, then they take you to jail. I mean, that's what happened to be DK. He's like, can I send you guys a floppy disk? Let let my hubris get in the way of good common sense here, because the FBI can trace your floppy disk.

But people like that act that way. You're totally right, Like, that's that is believable for him to just have, you know, inability to separate the ind from the ego. Right, it's like I just, oh, I'm perfect and everything, which, again, like you mentioned so many times, called him like even nobody has captured that part of it very well. And I think it's a really hard thing to capture convincingly because again, like that's not present in the novel. It's something they would have to kind of create for a adaptation to fill in those gaps for an audience that hasn't read the book, and it's nobody's done it well yet.

And again I think this is something that could be readapted and should be readapted by somebody who does it in a longer form narrative, Andy Griffin. I just want to say, if we're going to fifties, Andy Griffith would make a great loop for it. Oh my god, you're right, yeah, just trading off of the meta that's metacasting right well, not no, not not just because of the Andy Griffith show, but like a face in the crowd like Griffin, Griffith can play dark like he didn't get to do it too often, but also when people think of like some likable kind of hillbilly sheriff, who do they think of don Knots? Oh god, that's my favorite line and cereal mom is the guy at the flea market finds a velvet Donnots painting and he goes fucking don Knots.

And I would have the same reaction if I found a painting in the wild of don Knots. Mister Limpitt, come on, I would buy that. I would limpit as lu forward, is that believable? Not standing over you after beating the shit out of you. Well, I'm gonna have Nightmaris tonight.

Things I never knew. I was horrified of don Knots murdering me. I'm gonna make a fake cover of Killer Inside Me with don Knots for your trish. You're welcome, Terrified Monster is Inside. That's gonna be the episode thumbnail right there.

So before I don't know, you know, before we end at some point, I did just want to give a quick plug for a Thompson adaptation that we haven't talked about yet, This World and the Fireworks. Have you all seen that one? No, so it's from ninety seven. I'm just gonna read the cast Billy Zane, Gina gershawn Sery Lee Rue, mcclanahandmore, Cassell what, oh my god, we need to do this as an episode and Will Patton it's good. It's one of my favorite of the American adaptations of his work, and it's not not as well regarded as it should be.

Fucking Billy Zane, Billy z I love Billy. He's great. He is the demon Knight was hold their motherfucker, thank you. Oh my god. He's the best part of that fucking movie other than all the other good things that aren't named Jada Pinkett Smith, because she's terrible in that movie.

You'd just like to point that out for no particular reason. At all. Oh, but forget her. William Sadler is u C. Pound the only actress whose name sounds like a sandwich cch Pounder.

Charles Fleischer, Yeah, oh it's so good. John Cassier as the voice of the grip Keeper doesn't get enough credit, really, And in that movie, I mean, if Dick Biller's in your film, like, come on, isn't Zane like basically playing like Hunter s. Thompson In that dream sequence where he's seducing the Dick Miller character, He's like, talk about a long and hard one, Willie. And he's got like the little must like the jarette and the oh my gosh. Yeah, I want a Hunter S.

Thompson adaptation with Billy same. Billy Zane's great. I I I like Billy Zane. So you already got my interest. Color you piqued my interest, said to his friends, he's William William Zane.

God so like its so so Cullen. Final thoughts on The Killer Inside. I think it's a good movie. I think it's worth revision. Just left it at that, what the initials?

You should have left it at that, and it's been like what I'm done? No, it's I think We've had a great conversation that's you know, talked about the different aspects of the movie. And I think it's a terrific adaptation. I think it deserves a better reputation, deserves a better print. Hopefully this podcast will help elevate its position here.

The books a masterpiece and if you love great writing, you should read it. What's stopping you nothing, it's in print unlike this movie unfortunately, But but the nineteen seventy sixth adaptation I think is a if somebody has a gather already, I think it's I think it's a fascinating viewing. I think it has a great cast. And yeah, like Colin said, this needs to be treated more, you know, with a lot more respect and love and put back out there in the wild and a beautiful legal, physical media and streaming format. Um so I totally agree.

I mean again, this echoing the last time and Jim Thompson adaptation was on this podcast, that this deserves a better print, just like the Killoff did. And this is a you know, again to call movie where a man murders women and other men with wanted abandon fun as much as we can call it fun, I would say that this movie is a fun watch, and Stacy Keach and Susan Tyrrell make it so I think they're both really good performances from two really good actors. Obviously, so two really good character actors who turned in fantastic performances here and elsewhere. But ultimately, I mean again, there are some issues with trying to find this movie. This movie maybe never getting a permanent release, so again, who knows, But hopefully, like anything else we do from time to time get wishes bestowed upon us from the streaming and physical release.

God, so I've, like we've said already, crazier things have been released on streaming platforms and Keno and everybody else, So who knows, Maybe stranger things have happened. So on that note, we'll take a break and we'll play a TV spot or the next culture cast, C C C S, Crime, crick Rock, Rock. The world we are referring monson is a constant victory, constant triumph. You are beginning to accept it, to sue and committed to come out of it is always crime. In nineteen forty nine, George Orwell had a vision of the future.

Today that vision is still a best selling novel and his prophecy remains as terrifying as ever. I want a vision of the future. Who still imagine the boots camping on a human face forever? A future where freedom becomes slavery, where privacy is forbidden, the past forgotten, and where living people simply vanish. Yet one man and one woman dare to love can get some day off, nanof Yes, take this.

Everyone knows the thing that is in Rome one or one. It's the worst thing in the world. He can't get inside, you can't get to your heart. John Hurt, Susannah Hamilton, Cyril Cusack, and Richard Burton in the crowning role of his career. What are your true feelings towards Big brother head Muslaven It's not enough to obey Muslatin.

The film of the book of the year, George Orwell's nineteen eighty four. That's right on the next culture guys, we're gonna be talking about nineteen eighty four. A movie that's happy, happy, joy, joy, super exciting and not depressing at all. That's a great park. I haven't seen the adaptation that you guys will be be talking about, but I'm looking forward to the episode and I need to watch it.

I need for things to be better in the world. Though before I go back to orwell right now understandable, it'll probably be sadly. Yeah, that was a hard book to read last year. It was a rough one to say so I kind of programmed it and I was excited. But now I'm like, oh, this is fun, nice and depressing.

So I mean, it's not like this movie was, you know, a fucking cheery old day at the fair, So you know that's gonna be the other episode We're gonna actually after nineteen we're gonna do a cheery tooth. Right that was that a Marx Brothers movie. It's the Lost It's the Lost Mark. It's a cheery day at the fair where they cornhole Chicko for everyone to see. Oh boy, they were brothers at any mom until until we watched nineteen eighty four.

And I'm joined by I'm joined by A J. Black of all people from the we made this podcast network and writing in podcast hosting fame. Where can people Find You column? I'm not updating pulp Dash Serenade dot Com like I should, but I've been working on music. I'll I will be on the West Coast at the end of May with eight Hour Animal Plants some industrial music, and then um, I should hopefully have a couple of my hardcore bands albums come out this spring and early summer.

Demoted. So it's just demote band, you know. I think at band camp just there's someone else with the same name. But we both started at the same time. I think we were first, but um we're not.

We know you, so we like you. So listen to Collins Band. Maybe you're both great. You know. Well, let's not pit people against one another, right, There's there's enough room for two demotives in this world.

Double Secret demoted. We're all demoted, right, boy? Isn't that the truth? Heather? What about you?

Where can people find you on the internet if they were looking to track you down? If they, oh, why don't Well it depends on what kind of tracking we're wanting to do it, but uh, we're wanting to do They can find me of course my website monto Heather dot com. I also recently did a little uh tribute article in al Truantz into the world of Tinto Brass. You can read that over on Aero Films website on their film blog and uh so if you love Tinto Brass. If you're like, who's who's that crazy guy?

Go to Error Films website and read that. You can also find me on Twitter and Instagram and Patreon under at monto Heather. And as for me, Weirdingwaymedia dot com is where you can find all the things that I work on, including but not limited to this Bollywood Cinema Club, which both of y'all's have been on before. Cullen was on the first episode. So yeah, I do have to give Culin some credit for being like, you need to do this, man, he was he I remember you just said it to me so clearly, like you were like, you have to do this, so and that was like, well, you're going to be on the first episode, and it happened, and it's there and you can find it at Bollywood Cinemaclub dot com.

But more importantly, you can find other shows like Twisted and Uncorked, which is two women that are much funnier than me, which is not hard, it's actually very easy. And I'm Mike White's the Projection Booth because you know, let's be honest, here you come for the Mike White, but to stay for all the other fun things, because everybody's coming from Mike White, if you know what I mean. Took me a second. That's why Mike wears a lot of rain gear. Yeah, plastic sheets, folks, it's like gallagras.

As for me, I don't know where you can find me on all those podcasts and with rubber sheets somewhere in the Midwest. As for this show, culturecast dot com, Patreon dot com, all those places you can go to help the show, but like rate and review wherever you get it, because yeah, every little bit helps us out and helps us find our audience and helps our audience find these conversations that we're having because we're we're talking for a living, and don't you want to listen. Cullen Heather, thank you both so much for joining me. It's fun as always. It's like it's like a you know, there's like a triangle over here of Cullen, Richard and I, and there's a triangle over here of Heather, Father Malone and I.

And then this is like the third triangle of like the three of us. Let's see, it's fun. See you see you see, yes, you see Yeah, I fully I fully agree. I always feel like work like I don't know. It's just so easy and fun and happy, and I am always learning something new, like Helen, and you have expanded my knowledge, and Chris expands my knowledge all the time too, and all the kinds of way I mean, I feel the same about y'all.

And see, on that note, on that love fest, we'll catch on the next episode.