Haunted Alaska

Hello everyone, and welcome to yet another episode of Scary Stories. We tell I am one of your hosts, Chris Dash and I am your other host. I always forget that you're not. You don't say a segue, and here I am with and here comes just by. You're in on the seguay, aren't you glad?

Those things aren't a thing anymore? Are nous? Well? Like scooters and stuff are okay? Like bird scooters?

How much of a dickhead do you look writing a bird scooter like scale of like always too guaranteed? Right, I don't get those things at all, Like I look, if you don't have transportation, it's not for that. I don't feel like it's that though. I feel like it's a bunch of like drunk tourists writing them in cities where the people who actually live in those cities are annoyed that people are doing it. Yeah, that's fair.

Do you think, like, i'ny we have a scooter thing here. It's not Bird, but it's some other company that does the same thing. And what I get it most annoyed about is that that people just like lead them in the middle of the sidewalk, just like laying in the middle of the sidewalk, like, well, I can't write this anymore. I am done now. He The most thankless of thankless jobs is the person who has to go and collect all of them to charge them.

Right, exactly or funny, depending on how you view it. I mean it's almost like a game like where can I hide the scooters that the scooter person can't find it? I'm sure because they all have like the GPS chips or whatever the fucking them assumes. So those things have got to be expensive. They're not like five dollars in them, right, they're like electric, Yeah, yeah, yeah, they yeah exactly, So yeah, they can be useless as transportation, like minimal transportation.

But also, I don't know how the sidewalks are in you're part of Nebraska, but in my part of Ohio they're crap. They're absolute shit, and they are not for pedestrians. They're for no one. They're for people who like obstacle courses, right, hop scotch from hell baby right, Like, like most of them are, you know, coming up out of the ground and have a bunch of chips. Yeah exactly, Like they're just jutting out everywhere.

There's brickshnssing. There's just it doesn't feel like it's a good environment for a scooter writing, you know, a good way to eat shit on the scooter exactly exactly. So, speaking of places that their sidewalks are probably no better than ours, we're gonna be doing another haunted state this this episode, folks, we're gonna be talking about the other state that's not contiguous with the United States, that state being the lovely state of Alaska. Now, just have you been to Alaska? I have not.

I am good. I don't like the cold. It is always cold. Yeah, I mean I get it. I mean I like the cold, but I get not liking the cold.

I'm ambivalent. Now, I'm ambivalent to the cold and the warm. I'm just like more every every year because you're getting more jacked, bro, you're getting more swollen, You're you're getting more trimmed, and the trimmer you get, the colder. It is because you have less body fat, It's true. But it hurts my bones.

That's also fair. I have been to Alaska. I went in let's say the year of Our Lord two thousand and six, so I would have been sixteen. We went of all the things, we went to go do with my family. We went fishing, which is you know, my family doesn't at the time, didn't eat fish.

So it was like, we're going to Alaska to fish for salmon that we are then not going to eat. And even better, there's a funny addendum to the story. I think it was like two thousand and seven maybe, or maybe two thousand and eight. On my birthday, I went out to the freezer to get the ice cream cake that my mom had gotten for me, and it was like a chess freezer. Well, I was the one who opened the freezer to find out that the freezer had stopped working with about one hundred pounds of fish in it.

I remember opening it's being like O no, I just like closed and like walk back in the house and I was like, it's all ruined. I think the freezer may have stopped working. Mind you, my birthday is end of April in Texas. It's not cold, it's pretty warm. That thing had been sitting out there for a little while, getting a little ferment a little bit, you know, get the juice is going.

I don't even think my parents did anything with the freezer other than tape that fucker closed and put it on the sidewalk for the trash people to take away. Don't open it. Whatever you do, don't open it. It's like Dracula's coffin. So did you like fly fish?

Were you like standing in the rolling waves with your big pants and you're big? Yes, you like those big water pants they're called waiters. I like water pants, though. Come on down to bass Pro shops. We're selling half off water pants.

Not nearly as exciting as what you might think water pants would be. Though. If I was buying a pair of pants called water pants, I would expect it to be like you remember those, And I can only describe them as what many of us would would later call a flesh light. But you know that thing that like that like toy from when you were a kid, that like plastic, the rubbery plastic thing it's full of water and that turns inside out and turns in on itself. Yeah, um, that's what I would imagine water pants to be like that.

But you like put your legs in it? Would it? Though? Oh? Be very boy?

And they just fall up all the time. What if you like a belt? What if there were fish in the pants, Well then you probably break it. Put the moment you sit down and just explodes, my water broke, guys, And you can't sit down. You have to be standing the entire time.

No, we didn't do that kind of fishing. Um. We did like fishing on like fishing into like a like a like a river from like the boat. And it was so so fucking stupid. They were like, all right, the salmon or just swimming down the river.

And it's like you've got a hook and you're standing above a freeway and you're throwing a hook and trying to catch cars with it. And I was like, so it sounds impossible either way. So you're expected to throw the hook in the line, ringing a hook into the river and hoping that by luck, by the fish getting caught on your hook. So yeah, I've been to Alaska. We did what they consider fishing up there.

And look, I've also been out on a boat fishing in Alaska. We fished for like flounder off of wherever we were, the Keneye Peninsula. Probably let's say that because that's a real thing. Uh, it's fine. Look, here's the thing about Alaska, right, Alaska reminds me a lot of Maine.

It's Mountain and this it's kind of sort of remote in a lot of places. I mean, the further north you go in Alaska, the more remote it gets. It's it's it's it's culturally very distinct though, because obviously they have indigenous people, they have the Inuits who are all over Alaska, so it's very culturally different from the United States. But it feels like Maine or like the Northeast. It has that same vibe to it, right, But you know with giant fucking grizzly bears, And I knew I knew a kid in high school who went to Alaska with his boy scout troop and he got attacked by an actual fucking grizzly bear.

Well shit, and it like and it like, the only reason the kid is alive, toda him, it got him. And the only reason he's alive is because the bear was the bear came from behind and grabbed his pack. But he had he had like scars on his face from where the bear had attacked him. And like, this was a kid that I knew through high school. Well, the bear attacked his pack, and then the other thing that saved him was the fact that the one of the scout leaders had a fifty caliber revolver with them and he shot it at the bear.

Yeah, fucking Alaska's scary. It's a pretty scary place. Let's a big animals up, but they're moose. And Maine, but there aren't necessarily some of the things we're gonna be talking about on this episode in Maine, we're gonna be talking about weird, haunted and spooky things, as we always do in these Haunted State episodes. So Jess, I'm gonna kick it to you first, now that we've given a substantial intro to Alaska, the state that many people often even forget exists because of it not being connected to the United States, Jess, what are we talking about?

In your case? I was like, today, what are we talking about? What have you? What story are you bringing to the table here? So you would mentioned, you know, Alaska is pretty populous.

It was pretty populous with Inuit tribes, and so today I wanted to talk about the Kualupali part in me if I pronounced that entirely wrong, but here we go. So basically, this thing is part of my nightmares. It is an Arctic ocean for anything, anything that lives in the Arctic Ocean is ten times scarier than anything that lives literally anywhere else in the world, and on any surface like that is a brutal climate and world to be living in. So they are essentially mermaids or sirens, but not in a typical disneyfied princess pretty way or even you know, a Greek mythology beautiful siren way. No, they are described is having a wraith like appearance with black hair plastered to their essentially just sallow, scaly, fishy skin, and their faces are sunken in and have dark, hollow eyes.

I don't know if that means they don't have eyes, like if it's just black void or what. But they also have fins jutting out of their heads, backs, and arms, along with web feet and super sharp claws, so they're kind of shark like in appearance, is what I'm gathering throughout this. Typically the tail of the clip Elite is used as a cautionary tail to warn children away from the fold of waters because you know, in Alaska, way way way back, when I mean even still, tribes have to work together to make sure everybody stays safe and these really harsh environments, and this is pretty much just a way to warn children to stay away from the ocean, like stay off the ice, stay out of the ocean, because if you were caught by one of these non alluring creatures you they're one of two things can happen to you.

Either you are just pulled down to the icy depths and you are ripped apart and consumed, or you are enchanted by magic so that the quality leade can then feed off your essence and remain useful. So you know, typical child can nap a monster tail here. But I guess what makes them the most dangerous or into the legend is that you only see them for the instant that they appeared to you, and then they disappeared completely, so you won't see them coming, you won't hear them coming. Although it is said to be that they have a smell of sulfur, but you don't smell it until it's right up on you. So and that is what I found for creepy water monsters in Alaska, because that's what you know, that's my brand.

I have to find something that lives in the water, and living in the Arctic ocean is just horrifying, absolutely horrifying. I would Nope. I don't need any part of going in the Arctic Ocean. And you know, I think in a lot of ways, I'm you know, we've we talk about water monsters on this show before, because, like you said, every every time we do one of these haunted states, as long as it's not landlocked, there's normally like a water monster, I mean, especially if it's coastal, right, I mean even still, like I mean, I think we did I think we did Nebraska, there was like a thing in some pond that would have like jumped into the air and it landed. It made like earthquake aches and stuff.

Look, anything that's underwater that you can't see is always going to be one of these things where it's like what what what is? Let me explain it. Let me find a way to explain it that satisfies my expectations. And if I'm not able to make those, you know, satisfy my expectations, then it's an alien, or then it's a whatever, or then it's a whatever, right, like a monster or an alien or a big fool. Like the moment we lose the ability to like understand things is the moment our brains go wild.

But the thing about that is. If you know that and you have that expectation in mind, you can use a story like this too. I wouldn't say control, but I guess the word would be control because this ultimately sounds like a cautionary tale for kids. I mean, yeah, yeah, that that is essentially what it is. And especially when we're talking about like areas that are prominent with indigenous peoples, there's a lot of indigenous legends and myths that are going to filter in to popular culture, you know, popular lore, um.

And most of those tales serve as cautionary tales in some way, or creation tales or something like that. Like there's generally they're alan borical at some way. They're there's generally going to be a steam or a message. Right. And look, I mean it's cold in Alaska.

You go into the water for too long or not, you know, like minutes if it's freezing, and you die because it's the Arctic, right you You go out into the wild and you wander around and you get lost in the wilderness and you die. Like that's that's that's just the way it is. That's the way a place like this is. It's brutal, it's unforgiving, and it's a lot of it is un like just not undiscovered, but it's not necessarily charted. People aren't out in the wilderness of Alaska all the time, and so if you're a parent, you're sitting there and saying, well, how do I get my kid to not wander out of the tent, the egloo, what have you?

You go, Oh, there's a monster out there, so don't go out there. Is that why we have like monster on the bed, under the bed and in the closet, like just don't get out of bed. Well that's ah, well that's the question to get parents to be like just stay in your bed whole night. Well that's the question, right I I mate, it could be don't come annoy But at the same time, like, oh, they're in the closet, it's under the bed. Suburban parent problems are versus indigenous people's problems of prisly parents and Arctic oceans.

Well, that's a very you know, that's a very interesting question though, So let's let's kind of take a step back and look at it, you know, logically, So if these stories were being created to again not control the behavior, but massage the behavior of these children to do something other than go out and get lost in the wilderness, play in the water, do what I guess most kids would do. Right then, Yeah, you would make a story about something where it's like this monster lives in the water, but it can come on the land and it can take you away and you'll never come back and you never see your parents again. So don't fucking do it. So okay, horrible death, right, and like you or not die and just be kept in stasis to be drained by some monster.

But to your point, the question then becomes, is the analog to that the monster under the bed and monster in the closet? I guess, I guess in a more direct sense, yes, because if you're talking about like within the household, yes, But I think or I guess, or I wonder where you grew up. Was there a story? Was there a story like this that you heard where you grew up? I mean, maybe it's not some fish monster, but like a place you don't go, like a hindsight now that I see might be warning and just to not go there, um, right, because like that's the thing here, It's like you don't necessarily know what you're being warned against.

But you know that whatever it is, you shouldn't be doing because again the qualupague like it's it's not I mean again real or not. I mean, it's mythology, it's folklore. So I mean I respect the culture, but at the same time, I also respect the intention behind it, because it is it is very useful to have stories like this in your back pocket. It's a stranger danger, right, don't take candy from a person in a car. In all of our urban legends, and I think for me, like I didn't and relative to where I grew up, there really wasn't a specific like warning like do not go there.

Things like of course we had like the standard like haunted places whatever, like crybaby bridges and things like that, but they weren't like they were just stories of just like you know whatever. They weren't. It's not that the bridge was safe to go on. It was just that like that was just a story bestow or maybe the people who were saying those stories thought it was right, and maybe at some point somewhere it was, and then it just got turned into a bunch of different rigins. But I mean that's just you know, like we talked about urban legends, before and that's effectively like what we have.

And I think Western culture is urban legends rather than folklore, right like, because our our urban legends aren't necessarily spawned out of our belief systems as far as like culture goes, right, I mean, I guess they are, you know, I guess in a way they are. Like if you take the Hookman story that everyone knows is a cautionary tale about you know, fooling around with your boyfriend in the car at night, and I mean that that is a part of our belief system. So you know, as in general as Christian based Protestant Westerner Protestant based Westerners, that is an urban legend that was created out of a belief system that if you do these you know, sinful things, bad things will happen to you. Promiscuity should be punished.

Our Yeah, our urban legends are less of a we don't want our children to wander off and get eaten by a grizzly bear and more, our children are going to be suffering eternal damnation if they don't do if they do these things, which is very interesting if you think about it, right, because in a number of ways, it almost it almost feels less controlling when you think about the Kualu Pelique as more of just a don't go do this because your life could be adversely affected. In look, I mean, if you are promiscuous with someone, your life could be adversely affected. But sure could if you go out into the wilderness and you freeze to death. Your life is adversely affective. If you go out to the wildern and into the wilderness, especially as a child, but really at any age and a wilderness like Alaska and you don't know what the fuck you're doing, you are going to die.

That will absolutely happen. You are going to either get very injured and then die, or you are just going to succumb to whatever environment. Things are going to happen to you. Right that is, you're going to be a part of the various people who vanished in the Alaskan wilderness, never to be seen again. But ours are like you know, yes, if if you are promiscuous sexually, there is the possibility that something adverse can happen to you.

But it is not always going to happen to you. It's not a guarantee. It's not a guarantee that it will happen to you. But that is the promise of something like the hook Man is like, don't don't put yourself in that position, because the bad thing that happens won't be the bad thing that you expect, you know, I mean, that's the thing, right because ultimately, you know, was something like the qualupa leak. It's yes, we all understand.

You go out into the wild and something gets you, or you could just die anyways, but yeah, you could just fall in the water and freeze. In this culture, death is a guarantee when you're away from the pack, when you're away from the rest of the people in your tribe, you know, moving clan, whatever it is in Western society. In our culture, that's not the case. So it's we almost have to make it where that is the case, right, because again, the hookman story is not really about promiscuity, right, I mean it is, but that's yeah, it is. It's not like the guy took his dick out and all of a sudden she bit it off, Like no, It's like they were fooling around and then the hookman showed up, do you know what I mean?

Like it's sex is always used as the reason something happens, and in these stories it's like you going out and just existing is why these things happen. Yes, exactly, like you're doing something that you would probably be doing anyways, going out into the wilderness. But like this is like again, you're doing something maybe you're not supposed to be doing. Again, that's the judgment call here. Like kids fooling around in their car is like oldest time in memoria, like they were fooling around in chariots and other things.

Like since there has been a way to do something sexual in a small and closed space that is a vehicle, I've been doing it like carriages and everyone. Like this is not new, but these and these stories, I'm sure if you go back and look, there might even be stories like this in like you know, medieval England or other times when there were other things like this. Again, I think some of this also comes with the idea that these people have been granted a modicum of freedom that they maybe don't have, and now that they've been granted a modicum of freedom, we have to kind of push back on that culturally as well, because that's the other thing. I mean, the advent of a story like the Hookman comes at the same time as cars being affordable for kids to own and go out into the world and have that level of autonomy, because you know, that's the thing ultimately that I think a lot of us as adults forget is being a kid, more aptly a teenager sucked because we didn't have any autonomy.

I've been just get in my car and go anywhere. I'm stuck wherever I am. Yeah, but the moment I have a car and I can leave, my parents are worrying about me, which means that they need to start telling stories or concocting ideas or embellishing real things that have happened to make it like, well, if you go to the lover's lane or you go, absolutely happened to you. Right. I can tell you with absolute certainty, I have fooled around in my car multiple times, and I am yet to be murdered by a hookman.

Yeah. Yeah, unless I am said murdering a hookman. If I ever get murdered by a hookman, you'll know what happened. Right. Well, Jess was just fucking around in the car, got murdered at thirty plus years old, right, hook doesn't he doesn't care, but you well, yes, fair, But yeah, I think that it's it's interesting to see where the you know, myths, urban legends, folklore, whatever you want to you know, whatever brand it is, come.

They all come out of a sort of list of response and alities we have deemed as a society. Right, and for Westerners, our responsibilities are less about survival than other cultures and more about moral superiority or explaining how the sun rises. Because again that's where I mean folklore comes to. Oh and then the scare of Beatle is pushing the sun. That's like right, yeah, yeah, I mean that we have god right or science, which is in and of itself a breed of God right like or a breed of belief.

But if we're talking about folklore, I had to say God right. Well, I mean again, like you know, creation myths. I mean, the Bible is a creation myth along with other things. Like yeah, we just treat it more as yes then other people we treat it. So here's the other thing about religion, and you know the way that these kinds of stories and folklore exist, Like the religion religion, Christianity as we've seen it now in human history is only like a couple of thousand years old, right, Like the world's been around much longer, longer time like this is a blip, right, who knows five hundred years from now if anyone is going to be part of an organized religion in the way that we are able to observe it now, and then it will be impewted, just like we view things like you know, why does the you know tales from why does the sun come up?

And right? You know the turtle that holds the world, and things like or the tides or where did rivers come from? Or the Grand Canyon was formed? When you know X, Y and Z, did A, B and C and one, two and three happen? Like again, I don't want to boil mythology and folklore down to that, but that's the intention.

It's always been the intention. It's it's either to interplane or to entertain or to inform. But because we as because as people as a whole across cultures is learning and surviving and entertaining. Are are like, right, I haven't been doing since the dawn of time. Well, the other question that I always have in all of this is, okay, so you have these stories of the Kualu pelick and all these other things.

I mean again, we've we've talked about them before. What what were they seeing? If they were seeing anything, they were just seeing like a seal or something, right, Like, I'm not sure that, Yeah, I'm not feel like in this case, in this particular story, it is nothing but a cautionary tale that was bat up by elders in a tribe to keep young ones safe. Right like that that I feel like that is absolutely with Adam doubt. This is just a pure cautionary tale to keep people alive.

Um Now, I think that, like they're probably because I am not you know, well versed in Inuit legend and lore and things like that, I'm sure that that particular creature sure maybe comes from something in there belief system. I'm not sure. I don't. I don't know, but I gotta say that, yeah, this is likely not like an American saying they saw bigfoot, right, Well, I I don't. I don't think.

I don't think they saw anything. I think that, Yeah, I think that this is purely a like folklore story, which is perfectly fine. Like again, it's a cautionary tale, which doesn't necessarily have to mean that it has ever happened, like right, because the hookman is based off of real things. But that Hookman story, the way that it was told to me the first time I heard it, never happened. And I remember exactly where I was when I heard that.

I was at camp classen in fifth grade in elementary school, and that got told to me at night in a cabin, and I was it was it the it was intended one way and it was received the exact same way. Yes, it was scary and accomplished, right, But I think about it, and I think about why someone would have told that story to like a group of like eight year olds, and it's just again, you're probably because they were fucking teenage camp counselors. Like it was like an adult, it was like a chaperone. Are you sure? Yeah, I'm sure it was like someone who was there his dad, because like each cabin had I mean even still like we like as as in this country especially, have a very strange relationship with just wanting to terrify children, right, yeah, it is.

It is strange. I don't know what, like you play scary pranks on your on your kids, you do, you know, you tell them these scary stories. I don't know. I mean, I'm down for it. Obviously, I like, right, the creepy stuff, but I don't.

I don't know. Maybe it's because historically, like maybe we can just afford to joke around about things more like it's a privilegey thing. Yeah, it's also safe. I mean, telling a story about something happening in the privacy and safety of your own home is safer than going out. So like I mean, look like tall tales, there's an American like tall tale telling.

Tall tales is an American pastime like that. It's all about the embellishment, you know, like when you were talking about fishing, Like if you know, most people come back and tell they caught this huge ass fish and you know, wasn't that big? Probably not, it's probably decent sized, standard sized fish. But for whatever reason, we just you know, the embellishment, and maybe that is a product of our culture kind of being a on the like the appearances type, the appearances side of things, where it's like appearing that you have more than you do, appearing that you're more well put together than you are, appearing that you don't have these problems things like that Tall tales. Yeah, I I you know, I think I think you're right.

There's a lot of in my mind, there's a lot of things going on when I think about these kinds of stories, because again it's it's how did it get here? The version that I'm hearing it is probably not the way it was told. The person who told it maybe didn't even anticipate that it was. I mean, again, you know that some storytellers tell the story and they know how they're going to tell it, and they know how the person who's receiving it is going to receive it, or at least they hope. But then you have someone telling it who is just telling it to tell it, and they don't care what happens to it after he gets told.

But yet every time something is told like that, that becomes then an additional like you piece of string in this greater rope of the idea, and it takes it in interesting directions. I wish I could remember exactly the way the story was told to me, but I believe, and if memory serves me correctly, I believe the way that story was told to me was more or less the generic one. But it's interesting because ultimately, at the end of the day, like these stories, the way we're hearing them now a couple hundred two, three hundred years from now, they may even be different in what they're trying to do, because again, it all comes down to the intent of the person telling it, and some people are just telling it to tell it.

Some people aren't telling it with the intention of entertaining. They are telling it to scare and to frighten. And yeah, scaring kids seems like an adult pastime, and some adults really get off on it. I'm cool with it as long as everybody else is on the same page, right, Yeah, and everybody's safe about it. Like I got scared a couple times as a kid, pretty good by an adult.

Like my parents left me to be babysat and I watched like the people that were babysitting us, like they had kids as well, and for whatever reason, they put on Poultergeist, Oh great, perfect and my friendly movie. Right, And then at one point the dad like went to the back of the house and got a mask and like jumped out with it on while we were all watching, right, like, and it's like, yeah, my mom when I whatever was been that two thousand and three, end of the thirteen went to go see The Ring at the movie theater with my friends. You know, big deal because like the first time at the movie theaters without your parents because you're thirteen, you're seeing a scary movie. Blah blah. Yeah it was fucking scary.

I fucking scared the shit out of me when I was at the theater seeing it. And we, you know, go home because they're staying at my house that night, and of course we still have a landline in the year two thousand and three. Uh, and my mom you know, decides to call the landline from her cell phone because she also had one because it was two thousand and three, so you know, yes, and that scared the crap out of us. So it is definitely a tradition here. I am a good being elsewhere as well.

I don't know. Yeah, we can only speak to the culture we grew up in. But yeah, it's it's weird to me, but at the same time I get it. But I think also, again, it's like a safe kind of scared because there, I mean, the world that we live in, there's plenty of real things to really be scared of constantly if you think about it. Oh yeah, there used to be a time you could go to the fucking mall and not worry about it.

You can't even do that anymore. So there's plenty of real scary things to really be scared of. Like the one thing I will remember. I do remember it this as being specific to where we live. In the nineties, at some point at a mall around here in northeast Ohio, there had been I don't know if it actually happened, which I think that it did.

Nobody was seriously hurt, but there was a person that was said to be hiding out under parked cars in the mall parking lot waiting for women to come out to you know, slash their ankles. Essentially Allegedly that happened in you know, one of the parking lots in a pretty popular mall around here, one that we went to all the time when I was a kid. Um did that stop my mom and my nana from going there every weekend? Absolutely not. But did I hear the story, Oh yeah, absolutely every single time.

I bet yeah. I mean I heard that story too in high school, right exactly. But here in Nebraska, there's actually a fun addendum to that story that you brought up out of the blue. There was a dude here in Lincoln, a couple of years back. I think it was probably either during the pandemic or right before.

He was doing something similar. He was hiding under people's cars and he was touching their ankles. That's all he was doing. He's touching their ankles, like touching their ankles and feet. I would stomp his hands so fast.

Isn't that crazy? Every single finger? Is that nuts? Though? Like that was like that legit happened.

The guy got arrested. It was like on the news. It was a thing like this. There was someone who was here who was doing exactly what you're talking about, short of slashing their ankles. Yeah, but he was just like touching their ankles like that's I mean, again, it is I'm not gonna say obviously it's not that it's not illegal.

It's weird, but it's not nearly as it's not nearly as malicious as what you know, as we're talking about having your fucking what I'm assuming is like you're achilles tendon slashed, right exactly? What else? Yeah? Right? Because that's always what these stories are because somebody saw pet cemetery one too many times.

But that but that for me is that thing. It's like again like you even you heard it, and that that's a notorious urban legend. I think that may even be included in the film Urban Legend. No, that one isn't really isok? Okay?

Yeah, that's that's not surprising. Yeah, man, the dog in the microwave, the the dog in the My Career is a good one. I like the Baby in the Oven more, but it's essentially the same idea. Same Yeah, yeah that Yeah, Like you know, we did that urban legend episode so long ago. I would love to do another one.

Those are like I've read, I read like a thousand page book on those fucking things. There are some that like I had never even heard of. No, we should do a series of episodes breaking down like western urban where they where we think they come from, as far as like you know, what cautions they bring and things like that. Yeah, because us talking about the Kualu Peel, where we know about as much as we can find. That's it.

We can't, we can't, I can't speak to Well's the thing often about a lot of Indigenous people's myths and legends is that you know most of them, so many of them have been lost that we'll never know right right, Only the good ones get passed down, folks. The ones that have been passed down, you know, are probably have been very you know, over the years, disintegrated a bit in the amount of knowledge, and you know, people who are actively talking about them so and also in some cases their legends do mean a lot to them, very deeply, like that of the Lendgo in certain you know, indigenous people's culture that you don't talk about it because talking about it brings it on. So skin Walkers, we were not supposed to do a skin Walker episode apparently, I mean, right, I mean we're fine, Yeah, I get it's like Voldemort, right, like, don't say his name.

Yeah, as Westerners, we were not affected by it because we don't actually have that real intrinsic fear about it. It's not directly tied into our belief system. No. But if you we get a Catholic on this, you know, a really hardcore Catholic on this podcast that they don't want to talk about anything to do with actor, right, right, exactly, exactly exactly, And that's again like that strikes me as like modern mythology because again, just because you choose to serve, just because you choose to believe religion the way you believe it doesn't really make it any less than mythology. It's just that you have a set of rules and moral compass guiding said decision.

But it's still mythology. It still is explaining a lot of things that you want an explanation for guiding your life. Mag right, well, magic is the best part of all of this. I mean, I love not being I love when people use it as an explanation and they don't understand that using it as an explanation is not enough, right. But it's like, but if it is enough for you, I understand, but you can't be surprised when it's not enough for so many others, right, right, Yeah, I mean, weren't it look at it this morning?

An American kid not to go by the water because there might be a monster in it is going to be like, oh, I'm gonna go with this water and if I can find the monster, like, that's right, because that's how you know we are. But you know, for the people who are living in very difficult environments, it means more, right, well, they also have to be near the water anyways. I mean they're already they're already die is primarily fish that right well, and and they're they're having to interact with it, so it's like it's less it's less like not don't interact with it at all, but like interact with it in a way that's smart, right, Like right, don't get too close to the water. It's not that don't don't go to the water, just don't get too close, right, Yeah, we have a very just don't at all right right way about us, whereas like other places is a bit like Okay, we understand that you're still gonna have to do these things, but just do them smartly, please.

Abstinence. Abstinence is key here, right godd yeah, well you know, I think I think abstinence is you know, a again, it's like anything else. It's a great way of controlling what people are doing and telling people what today and again making a moral judgment on something that has no morality tied to it. Like I don't know if people hearing this need to hear this, but it's okay to have sex and enjoy it, yep, and do it as much as you want, as many times with as many people, as long as you're doing it safely and it's all consensual folks, because guess what, as long as those two things are met, it's literally not a problem at all. And we have access to so much information now right the Internet and unlike and applications that allow you to meet people you never would have met otherwise.

Like, come on, folks, don't don't be conned into this idea that you're not allowed to feel good, because the people that are telling you that don't want you to feel good, I know, show because then that ruins their whole stick. Yeah, we're not supposed to enjoy ourselves now, We're we're miserable now so that we could enjoy ourselves later. Yes, yeah, fuck that, Okay, sure, sir? Right. So, speaking of control and keeping things from people, the thing that I wanted to talk about is unlike pretty much anything we've talked about on a Haunted State episode up until this point, I wanted to talk about JAP Benese Airlines otherwise known as j L a cargo flight that they made in nineteen eighty six that well it was it was cargo flight sixteen twenty eight.

And what did they encounter over Alaska? Well, they encountered two unidentified objects, which I guess we would call UFOs. Can we talk about that before we get further into the story. UFOs is a term that it doesn't mean it's an alien. No, it's an unidentified object.

That's what it means. It is in the most literal terms of all literal definitions of each of those words, but unidentified flying objects. So I mentioned that because I feel like it's important to reinforce the fact that something can be a UFO and be completely terrestrial. Yes, it give me a drone, it could be a plane, it could be Superman. Well, and in these complicated times technologically, there are all kinds of things that it could be that we can't even fool right, Well, I mean, whether we don't know what other places are working on.

We don't know what we're working like, come on, I have no idea what the American government is working on, like the highest forms of like technologically advanced weaponry inspy stuff, right, And they're not going to tell us because that's the point what they're not telling us intentionally, because there's clearly something about it that needs to be protected, which is fine, even if that is to just not incite panic, right right, which I think there is some of that. I get that all out of the way, because again I believe in aliens and the existence of them. I know you do as well. But again for a lot of people, it's kind of a touchy subject. And I think recently UFO and that term with what was going on over the Great Lakes last year, where there was like, oh no, they were shooting things down constantly in hardy heart harror.

Isn't it aliens? Like, no, it's UFOs. Maybe maybe the government doesn't know what they are. Which, by the way, anyone listening, if the government doesn't know what something is and they're still shooting things down and they're saying that out loud, that the optics, right, and the optics of that are worse than if they did know what it was. We don't know what it was, so we exploded it over something.

Yeah it could have been a thing full of just like chemicals, but we just to get out see Eastern Ohio. Yeah, yeah, but that's the thing. But that's the thing again, Like it's weird to me because the term UFO now it almost feels like when someone says UFO, they mean like the expectation is alien and like it's not and it's it doesn't need to be and it shouldn't be. And I say that only because there's a conversation and the dialogue on UFOs. I think it the longer weird around as people and the more technology we get as a society, I think the conversation is going to shift in weird and interesting and exciting ways that we can't anticipate.

But that term UFO is going to become more and more commonplace, and I think we just need to be cognizant of every time someone says UFO doesn't mean it's an alien, it means we literally just don't know what it means. Well, I mean, yeah, it's been you know, taken over by science fiction, right called pop culture and things like that. And typically if you say UFO, people think you're talking about aliens. Yes. I feel like recently there's and some like kind of move to change like UAP and identifying aerial phenomenons yes, which I think is what NASA.

I think NASA calls NASA calls them UAPs right to get away from the connotation of aliens, because yes, it has been completely taken over, right like that is Yeah, it's it's a lot. I mean, it's it's a lot, and again, I just I want to mention that because again I have been reading a pretty interesting book that kind of goes into the history of uphology, and so you know, uphology is again like uphology in and of itself is kind of weird because it's the study of unidentified flying objects. But like you said, it is it aliens now? Like right, like is that aliens? Are we talking about unidentified flying objects?

Yeah, it's very muddy now because especially with I think, you know, there's also been a move in that in that group of people to kind of get away from the ancient aliens type of reputation that has been cultivated over the last ten years or so, um, twenty years, has been a thing since the seventies. But like the prominence now, yeah, prominence is fueled by that show, yes, And so I think that there's a move even within like people who are actually like ufologists that are studying for the potential of extraterrestrial life to move any more science based, right package essentially like changing lingo, changing approaches to how you know, like just getting away from that concrete it was aliens type of right idea, because that is very damaging.

Two Uphology and studying on identified flying objects. Whether they're aliens or not, they still need to be you know, investigated well, and they need to be investigated in a serious way. Yes, And that's the thing. I mean, you know the book American Cosmic by DW. Pasolka, it's if anyone is interested in actually kind of exploring the serious debate on this and kind of the way that academia has been I think maligning the discussion, but also kind of having a discussion and a because that's the thing.

And in her book they kind of talk about this idea that they're having this conversation about UFOs and aliens, but they're not having it out in the open. It's being had behind closed doors because people don't want it to reflect orally on them. They don't want to go I saw aliens, like I mean you and I spoke with Geraldine Sits and I mean her family. You know, they're considered crazy because they saw Kelly Hopkinsville seemed perfectly normal to me. I believe that they saw something like again, but then we come to something like this.

You don't know what it is, absolutely not do I believe they say it saw something? Yeah, right, But I can't say what it right, But there are plenty of people that can say what they know it wasn't people, it wasn't aliens? Well then what was it? Was an owl? Why?

Okay, Well that's I mean, could be I guess, but it could be aliens too, Like unless you can prove it was owls, then it could also be aliens, which is again like I know that that's hard to stomach that if it if you can't prove it isn't aliens, it could be aliens or you it's still unidentified either way. So all that aside. So this JL flight JL flight sixteen twenty eight, it took off November seventeenth, nineteen eighty six, and it was flying over eastern Alaska when it saw not one, not two, but three objects that followed it and seemed to be like do it like trying to interact in a way with the ship. So they they saw what they believed to be and one of the captain of the of the ship describes it as um like shooting off lights.

But do you look at the artists rendering what it looks like they saw was like stacked, you know how if you're like a like a stadium, like a football stadium, and you would stand on the field and look at the lights that are shooting down at the field. It looks like that. So that could be interpreted. And the way the captain of the air the airliner interpreted it was it was the back of the ship. So he interpreted as they were seeing the back of the ship or maybe the front of the ship with the thrusters.

But these objects, he's again UFOs, they interact, They interacted with them, and they were like escorting them at one point and interacting with the plane, I mean, and again in a way where it seemed like there was some intelligence to it. So initially they take off, they're flying over eastern Alaska, and these two objects kind of show up and they start cruising with them for a while, these rectangular kind of shapes that are flying, and then they leave after you know, I guess it's probably like ten minutes, twelve minutes. It's an extended town. Yeah, it's it's a long period of time. Ken Juttera Yuchi, the captain said, at one point the thing was flying as if there was no such thing as gravity.

It's sped up then stopped, then flew at our speed in our directions, so that to us it quote appeared to be standing still. The next instant it changed course. In other words, the flying object had over come gravity. And you hear that a lot with these stories where it's like the thing made a move that what we perceive to be terrestrial technology can't do. Because I don't know if anybody knows this, but if you're in an airplane, an airplane can't just stop in the middle of the air.

Now, yeahs a break. Bernoulli's principle is what keeps the plane in the air. And that is the antithesis of Bernoulli's principle because you have to be moving for it to be an effect. So they're more talking like a helicopter, but helicopters don't exhibit thrust because that's not the way that they work either. They're hovering above the ground and you're tilting the hover to move forward.

They're not being propelled forward by anything. So what he's essentially talking about is something that's able to move forward, stop, pivot, and then go forward with a large amount of inertia, which that is one hundred breaking the laws of gravity. Yeah. Absolutely, And so when the pilots in the airline contact traffic control. They're like, hey, we're seeing these things.

What's going on? And air traffic control is like, there's not any traffic where you are right now, so you shouldn't be seeing anything. And then these things, these unidentified objects, they come and they're next to the plane as it's flying, and they're undulating up and down, and they're getting brighter and darker and brighter and darker, and then they just disappear, but not like I don't know, like just a little while after they're flying along and then all of a sudden, a giant Again I'm going off of what he said. This is the captain against speaking. He said that it was twice the size of an aircraft carrier next to in the sky, back to the left of the plane, and it followed them information as they were turning and descending into Fairbanks.

Yeah, into the Fairbanks Airport. So yeah, isn't that crazy? I mean, they saw these two things, and again they saw these two little things that were following them, and then all of a sudden, after those things disappear, there is some sort of large object right about ten o'clock from the plane. So behind that left, yeah, or yeah, maybe again like you know, who knows? Right, Again, that's that's somewhat my interpretation that these may be like sensors or drones that come out that gauge whether or not something is a threat.

And then again I can't tell because again it's not made clear. Was that thing that they saw that the captain and the others saw behind the plane was it meant to be were they were trying to be scene? Was it only scene because of the technology that we have, Like it's never that that part of it I can't figure out, right. But what's interesting is it is kind of a two stage interaction, which would lead me to believe, like you said, like there is some what is going on here, like yeah, what this thing may have some intention to it that we're not able to understand, right, and that it is something that's essentially, like you said, sent out drones or whatever, presumably to test the plane to see if it's you know, a threat of any kind.

And so what we're talking about is that they effectively see the mothership m right, yeah or yeah, something to that effect. And the crazy thing is due to an incident that had happened, well, I guess it would have been forty years earlier, so it's a pretty pretty big incident. We've never talked about it on the show, but the man tell Ufo incident was the first time, and I guess what are the first time or one of the times that the US government sent a they sent an air National Guard in a P fifty one Mustang to chase after something. Yes, guess what happened? They erect Yeah, and they died.

And what may have happened was they they discern possibly that he may have been chasing an early test for the Skyhook balloon, which the Skyhok balloon for those of you who saw The Dark Knight, is the thing where you know, you have a balloon that goes into the air and you have a plane that comes by and catches it, and it's used to you know, take people out of the out of really hard positions, to get them out of otherwise you know, battle front, you know, the front lines, what have you. I mean again, it's never actually been used, I don't think, not in any substantive way. But it looks cool at movies. Um, I mean it does. It does.

It's even it's it's in Poton even they use it in that movie. To a pretty great effect. But what they think may have happened was the US government essentially sent planes to a plane to go after itself unknowingly. And so there is no element in this story of interaction with the US government and the US Why I don't believe in completely completely classified missions. Well that's I mean to know, so things like that don't happen.

Well, and that's the other thing I mean, ultimately, when we talk about something like, you know, the US government mobilizing a Mustang to chase down a possible skyhook experiment, which is again the government going after itself unknowingly, I can understand why they wouldn't want to. You know, the anchorage atc wouldn't have Like they said that they offered it to the pilot, the captain of the plane, and he was like, hey, like do you want us to get military intervention? He's like no, because of this thing that happened before. So I get it. I get why he wouldn't want to, Like, can maybe have that on his conscience if something happened.

But it's a weird story because you know, the ultimate thing about this that's kind of strange is it was it's a sighting The lasted almost an hour and it ended near the Dnali Mountain Range, the peak, which is the highest peak in the United States or in North America. But the other thing about all of this is it's it's like a it's a small crew of people because it's not a passenger airline, it's a cargo flight, right, So it begs the question was that drone out there looking for a plane full of passengers to interact with and they didn't see anything, because again, this is just it's like a ups flight, right, like or FedEx, Like they have to fly planes with a skeleton crew to get from point A to point B, and they don't need thirty people are in and out of Alaska all the time too, I mean like you're going to really far out remote places of Alaska likely to be dropping off supplies and stuff too, or going or going over the Pacific Ocean.

I mean, you know, again, because this this is a Japanese airline, so JL, So this isn't even American. This is a JL flight that's crossing over into eastern Alaska. So I don't know what to make of this. It feels like a pretty interesting hun Definitely, yeah, it's definitely one of them more because it has the most components. Right, most of most of the time, when we hear about unidentified flying objects that are perceived to be alien in nature, they're like these little dots, you know, or little triangles or little just smaller lights that are there and gone in an instant.

But this is one that lasted, like you said, almost an hour, that it had multiple interactions like that they were interacted with and then the things disappeared and then we're back again. So you know that coupled with the seeing of a much bigger object. I mean, I don't know, like I mean, look pilots, like I gotta assume that these pilots are professional, upstanding people. I don't have any reason to discount or doubt what they'd be saying. And also, again when we've asked this again many times, in particular regard to Kelly Hopkins, what is there to gain telling stories that effectively make you appear to be the crazy person to a lot of people.

Captain Tara Ouchi got more us sent to desk job because of this because he spoke to the press. He spoke to the Kyoto News, and JL didn't like that, so they were like guess what, you're on a desk job. Now he was reinstated. He was reinstated after the fact as a pilot years later. But I mean again, l like in general, there's almost never anything to gain from these situations in being the person or people that tell you about that, that that go to the press, then go to the government, then go to wherever and tell these stories.

There's never any monetary value. Any of the same that you get is more of like in the infamy category right in the lesson lens and dangerous and more just oh look at this weird person that's these weird things to people. Can you believe that? Like like like Kelly Hopkinsville again, like you're seen as like Pariah's in your own community because like, oh those are the weirdos that believe in aliens. Like great, And if you're a pilot, I gotta think you really wanted to be a pilot.

Like that's not a career you just fall into or decide to do for fun zis for a little bit, Like you have to work really hard to become a pilot, you know Europe, to be a very responsible, trustworthy individual to be a pilot. Yeah, so this person's character for you know, I have no reason to doubt that they are not a saying, responsible, reliable person. Now it did it? Like anybody else in the crew like agree, you know, like back up the story in anyway? Yeah, they all did, they all they all supported it.

And what's funny is you know, so I mentioned the captain of the ship ended up going to desk duty, and then it was investigated by the FAA for three months and they essentially said, you know, the controllers did see something eventually, but it was the radar being fucked up, so that's what it was. It wasn't actually anything. And then outside of that, like, yeah, the crew maybe saw something, but we don't know what they saw. We didn't see anything enough on our end to support whatever the hell they're saying. And then you know, after the fact, Philip J.

Class, who is a very well known UFO researcher, not a debunker, a researcher, he wrote in his book that Captain tara Oucci had apparently claimed to have seen UFOs two other times and then two other times before that. So the question that becomes, well, what did he see those other times? If he was seeing the same thing here, maybe he is a I think class uses the term UFO repeater. So someone who's constantly seeing UFOs. I mean, look, with his job, he's up in the air, what do you expect to see?

Right? I mean most do have both sidings come from people who are flying, right. I mean classics say like, okay, maybe he's using the term spaceships and mother ships too often, but I mean again, like it's it's that same thing of like big foot hunters going into the woods and seeing things, Like who else is going to see things if if not big foot hunters? And look, this is a job, a profession where you're not there by like you said, you're not there by accident. Like you want to be a pilot.

You're gonna be a pilot, and that's going to be the job you're doing. You're gonna find yourself out a really good vision. So right right right now, Like it's not like me driving down the highway at night for you know, if I'm on a long road trip or whenever, and things start to look a little funny on the road, that's just fatigue and you know, optics and light optics and things like that. But yeah, you're a pilot, You're up there, there's not a lot of light. There's probably no light, right, there's no light.

You do have good vision, presumably that's a that's a pretty big requirement to be a pilot as far as I know, right, So, and yeah, I could, I could. You know, is a UFO repeater like somebody who's like particularly sensitive to ghosts, like when they say they see them all the time, Like, are you particularly sensitive to other world life technology? I don't, I don't know. I mean again, it begs that question. So, but the alternative is, if it's not aliens, it is either the US government or some other government doing some weird shit, and I'd rather be right.

So, the the science explanation that is put forth is that it's Jupiter in Mars very bright though, and apparently the misinterpretation of planet stars and other things in the sky that are celestial in nature, um, apparently that's coin to misinterpret those kinds of things as UFOs. I mean again, technically, it is still a UFO if you can't identify what it is, even if it is some sort of like body and it's right exactly like still technically an unidentified flying object. But I mean, is that a fun explanation though, No, but is it one that might make sense? Sure? I feel like I can buy that for the thing that he saw behind him right totally.

I'm with you on that, like a big thing behind the plane. Yeah, but you can't really see Okay, fine, But for two objects that are a you said rectangular, so like square like squares? Yeah, sharp sharp angled in nature is not something that involves nature in a lot of what hying with like moving with the plane. The planets aren't moving with the plane right right right? We would that we would notice if that happens right right, something horrible would happen if that happens exactly.

And that's and that's where I'm coming from. It's like you you in a lot of ways, I feel like that explanation. I could get behind it with some of it, but not all of it. And unfortunately with something like this, like how could half of the explanation? I mean, it could make sense because there are two sightings here.

I guess that's the only kind of saving grace here that would allow it to be. Oh, it could be one thing and technically also something else because there are because again, like you said, I mean, I kind of believe that the thing that he saw behind the ship may yeah, have been like a planet, but that doesn't explain some of the other stuff Like that doesn't explain the first thing that they see, nob the things they are bouncing around with the plane and moving around. What if they saw gymnastics. What if they did see a UFO but then they also saw a planet or do you think there's a possibility that they just didn't see anything, that maybe they saw a UFO from that planet. Fair?

But what I mean, do you know what I mean, like, is is there a possibility that they did see something and didn't see something at the same time. I think so. I mean, look, I mean, you're in the sky, there's all kinds of who knows, and it's a nighttime. I mean again, but to your point, it could also be like a big cloud formation too behind like the thing behind them, I feel like is more an add on to the main event, which is the two objects that were actively interacting with the plane. Sure, because once you're already in that brain, like you're okay, fine, you've already you're in the pilot or the crew members who are on this plane, and you've been seeing this thing happen for a while.

Likely your brain is also going to like potentially manifest other things that you're going to see because you're already in that mindset. Right. But so the thing behind him, I don't know. I feel like that is probably more just the result of being you know, completely state and suggestible state. Yeah, but it if if what he says and everybody else on that plane says is true that they were followed around essentially by two objects, then I don't I just don't know how that equals planets, right, that first part, I don't.

That second part I get it, But yeah, I have a I have a hard time getting myself to that point where it's like I have a hard time getting to the point where I could say, yeah, that's a planet, like I would likely you know, logical brain me is more inclined to the it's a government thing like sort of experiment. Yeah, I'm sort of testing light. Well, I mean maybe they're testing some sort of disorientation tactic, right, Like, yeah, I mean it wouldn't be wise to try it on civilians, but the government has done things before, so right, what's to say they wouldn't again, right exactly? So, I mean, like that would be my I feel like the science explanation in this case is a bit too wishy washy, but the it was probably a government thing, testing thing that I can probably believe.

And then obviously that would be why he would go to a desk job and why you know, they would push this out and being like, oh, he see he claims to see these things all the time, right, yeah, well I mean that, I mean, that would make sense as to why he's easy to discredit, right, Oh he saw these things all the time? Yeah, yeah, I mean ultimately, at the end of the day, I feel like, you know, I don't know what they saw, but I think they saw some thing. I think that that's more or less guaranteed. I guess the ultimate question in a case like this becomes is what does it mean if they saw something to begin with? Like, what does that mean?

Because ultimately, when we talk about things like in oh in New Mexico or in Las Vegas again, two places where we know things happen have happened in Area fifty one in Roswell, like two places in this country terrestrially where there are sightings constantly of things and people going there are aliens here, so people being abducted, right, and and the question becomes ultimately like if that's going on up there, is it just military? Because I think some of the stuff in Las Vegas totally just military. Obviously there are fifty one is there the stuff in New Mexico maybe even that. I mean again, people were seeing stuff in the forties, you know, white sands, Los Alamos, that was a thing too. But I think that there is a probably equal amount of what is potentially extraterrestrial versus what is government shenanigans.

I think that they're they're equal amounts of both of those. And I think that that the government it really gets a free pass with how much they've made everyone who is you know, has interacted with aliens seemed very crazy. Wow. I mean, if you listen to any of the times our dear friend mister Skavarla comes on the show, that is a topic of frequent discussion is the usage of government forces and government funds to uh because it also subverts what people are doing. And I mean again like because it takes attention away from if the okay, fine, if it's not aliens, then is it the government fucking around with shit?

And if so, what are they fucking around with why are they doing these things? What are there you know, tended purpose and they don't want you know, those are If the government hides things from itself, why would it not hide almost everything from us like that? That is just I think a naive con thought if you if you are assuming that the government would never lie about something to cover their own ass. Well, and I also don't understand why anyone would believe the government would release anything seriously that we should believe is actually like, we should never believe that if the government is going to declassify something, they're not declassifying it intentionally like they are for the public and her And I'll say this, I'll play Deuvil's advocate and say that it's not you know, exclusively because they're doing bad, you know, dark government things.

I think that if there or if there is significant proof to like a roswell situation or something like that, that people, the general public would lose their fucking mind right as a collective and it would become chaos like it. I feel like, because let's say that in this situation, everything that we've heard about aliens is you know, true, that they are abducting people and doing things to them that roswell is a thing that you know all of all you know Skinwalker ranches, this, you know, hub fruit, extraterrestrial interaction and teleportation and shit like that. Say that all that's real. People would lose their shit, right, They would lose their mind because it would destroy every belief system that everyone in the world has.

Right I'm not everyone, but we have very powerful people right well, and the people that have them for sure, yes, because it's like people the Catholics, the Christians, the Protestants, all of those people that we were talking about before that we're making a pautionary tales about not fucking around in your car. Those people would lose their mind because their whole world that they have built would be destroyed in one sales. So is it safe to blame religion then for the lack of proof and evidence for UFOs? Now I can just throw them all under the bus collectively. I mean I wouldn't do that, but like you can, I think it's people and you know, and you can say it.

Religion is just another form of tribalism, right, like any any form of conformity in large group is an inherent human thing because of you know, from an evolutionary standpoint, from a biblical standpoint, from a cultural standpoint, I think that it is just humans are going to make up these things that bring them together, not all of them together, but enough for them to feel like they're a part of something in a community and have people that are you know, they can rely on. Well, and I think I think also if we didn't have religion, it would just be something else insert cult like look like, right, it's religion, fucking you know CrossFit people. Well no, I mean, I mean, you're you're completely right.

It's just the the amount that it's taken hold and the amount that it's taken like control over things. Because in a lot of ways, yes, the conversation and the dialogue that we have about these things is dictated by the belief by some people that to reveal the truth of these things would make the people that they're worried about completely uncooperative in society moving forward. Yes, that's really what it is, right, That's what I'm saying, Like people would lose their shit because they would lose all control of everything they thought they had control over. Right, right, we look, if you found if you found out that all those fucking things I mentioned were real, Like we woke up tomorrow and it's like, oh yeah, you can totally teleport from script Skinwalker ranch to some other fucking dimension.

Are we paying our bills anymore? Right? Exactly the line to work anymore? Right? Are we going shopping for shitty Ikea furniture anymore?

Are we doing any of those things? No, we are not. We have we have were death, We've Human nature is about to take a whole turn right as to how it acts, as to what it does with this information, to how quickly people are like you know, start fighting with each other about what certain things mean. I mean, you don't think, I mean, here's the thing. There's still also going to be evangelicals that are going to say that this is a god thing like, So then you have that aspect of it of people who are thinking that like the end of times have come right and people would lose their shit.

So yeah, I do think that obviously the government control the government, and you know what other corporations powers that run the world effectively, in particular our branch of the world, absolutely are also keeping things from people to not incite a complete destruction of what we know human kind to be. Right now, and like how we function as humans in this world currently well, and I think, like anything else, I mean, I think in society as a whole, there are people that want to lead, there are people that want to be led, and there are people that want to be dragged. And I think that the people that want to be dragged are okay with it. I think the people that want to be let are okay with it. I think the people that want to lead want to lead so badly that they're okay with letting everybody else be literally in the dark.

Which is fine. I mean, it's just fine that it works two ways, right, because they're even ui to an extent, choose to live in the dark about a lot of things, right, totally totally because it because they would fuck up our way of how we go about our life and cope with life and manage life. Right, so you know, like, yeah, we could, we could jump down a lot of rabbit holes and start going like really breaking into things. But as you know, individuals or like I only have this one singular life and I don't know how long it's going to be, and I already have a lot of mental turmoil. I don't need to do more of it to myself, right, And I'm and I'm I'm with you there.

I mean, that's that's what I think about when I think about things like this. It's like, Okay, this is the thing that I choose to be animated about, and I understand that I'm I may die and never get an answer on this, and that's fine. I'll get an answer when I'm dead because then you'll be able to view this third person and whatever the fuck? But yeah, I don't. It's it's very strange to me because how much would you really want to know if you could know it?

Right? That's the other question. Be careful what you wish for, right, Like, yeah, like I want to there are things I definitely know. I want to know. I want to know if the lack of sponsor is real.

I want to know a Bigfoot is real. I want to know if aliens, like if the if actual intelligent life has been contacted. I don't need to know all the details, right, but just that it is fact that that is a thing that exists. Because if it's fact that the thing that exists, you know what that proves to me. I've continued to live my life up to this point.

As is with them being completely real and there and I'm fine, so right, that's fair, great, Yeah, no, I think I want to know what lives at the bottom of the ocean. Absolutely not. They can keep that to themselves. Why. I think it comes back to the question of like, would you get on an airplane if you knew there was a giant pterodactyl that flew around and took a bird or took an airplane down once a month like or once it but right, but like, there are plenty of people that would you get on the subway again if you knew that, like mold people were real like and that they like fucked around every now and then with the subways.

I don't know. I don't know, but there are plenty of people that would. So again, that's it comes it comes down. And it's also built a culture around stuff like that. We have things like X files and what and unsolved mysteries and all of these things where it proves, you know, the people are curious and interested in finding things out.

But you talk to people who've been abducted, most of them, most not all of them, most of them don't want it again, right, They're not actively going out to do it here, but it's going to happen again, exactly. They're not they're not actively as excited as we are, and they look at people like us. I don't want it more excited and what the fuck? I'm good. I never need to be abducted by an alien.

I'd like a ghost encounter, but that's for my own like honestly, if I can say anything, that's for my own sense of like mortality of Like if I have a ghost interaction and it's undeniably a ghost interaction, I'm like, well, okay, I'll be a ghost. That's fine with me. I mean, I get I guess I would like I don't know. I mean, I've had an interaction with what I believe to be something I couldn't explain, and it wasn't is, it wasn't scary, but I don't know if i'd want to have it again. So I get it, Like I as someone who's had that experience, I get where you're coming from too, because it's like I would don't know if I want to have that experience again, But I'm glad I had it the one time I had it, right, So look, I don't know what these guys saw I think they saw something.

I believe that they saw something. But you know, like anything else, when you see things over the continental or United States, it's written large. I think it always comes with a large amount of I don't know. I want to know about the Bermuda Triangle. That's what I want to know about.

I don't think there's anything to the Bermuda Triangle. Dead serious, dead serious. I think the Bermuda Triangle is just it's what it's. There is a space. It's not the Bermuna Triangle though, that's just the thing that the government has told us about.

But there's actually some space elsewhere that is like the Bermuna Triangle. I think that there's a lot of shit in the sky that a lot of people see. I think it's more likely that there is something like the Bermuda Triangle and we don't know about it than that there is the Bermuda Triangle and it's that because to say, this one area has a bunch of ships disappear, but yet but yet ships and airplanes fly through it all the time, like right, But statistically, if more ships and aircrafts are disappearing in a certain part, then there would need to be a reason for it. Yeah, but if they're not being you know, like surfacing, you know, like pieces and parts of them in the ocean, which there would be, I mean ships, especially planes.

I'll give you planes hit the ocean hard and I'm sure you know a lot of it mangles into a lot of little tiny pieces whatever. But whole ass ships disappearing, right, No nothing, No life jackets floating around, no life boats, no nothing. Yeah, I don't I don't think. I don't know. I think, ultimately, I think in a lot of ways, the Bermuda Triangle, I don't know.

I'm with you, but I'm not you know what I mean, Like, I don't know. The Bermuda Triangle I think is like it's a weird thing, but I'm not sure it's anything more than just a weird thing. Does that make sense? There's one of the Earth, just one of the world's most random mysteries of just like, Yeah, I don't know. I also wonder, like I just lose their mission in this part of well.

I also wonder, like, you know, ultimately, isn't there the likelihood of a place like that being on the Earth pretty high? That there's somewhere that lots of things happen just statistically, isn't that probable? I don't know. Like, for me, the triangle is weird. It's just weird, like it's it's like a seventies thing, you know.

Like I feel like, if there's something happening consistently in an area that is weird, stands to reason there's a weird explanation for it, or a shockingly mundane explanation that is so boring we haven't contemplated it. That's fine. I don't know. I'm not saying one or the other. Like I would like for it to be what you're saying, for sure.

I would prefer that, because what does that mean. I would prefer it to be weird and not like, you know, something like so boringly normal. I would like to know that there's something more interesting happening in the world than right just day to day. That's what this is. What you get, what you see is what you get right, that is more depressing.

Yeah, I'm totally with you that that that would be more depressing for me to find out that this is that like absolutely nothing is not a single thing, not not one thing, not even God, nothing and reality really is boring, folks. Geez Louise. I mean, that's that's what it would feel like. So so yeah, that's why we do what we do, and that's why we're here talking about the things that we talk about. So that's Alaska, folks, and it's haunted sort of.

Maybe it's weird, that's for sure. Mermaids and aliens. So Jess until the next time we do one of these. Where can people find you? You can find me on Instagram at writer Jess Buyed.

Pretty much everything I do is filtered to they're in some capacity. You can also hear me on other podcasts at the weird Way Network, reading Way Media and Network, such as Chris Chris and I's other show, The One Season Show, although that has been on hiatus for us for a while, but there's plenty of good stuff to listen to in the interim. You can also hear me on various episodes of The Culture Cast, various episodes of The Bollywood Cinema Club, and even a few episodes of The Projection Booth. Yeah, Projection Booth, that's where it all began. That's where it all ends, Bob.

As for me, Weirdingwaymedia dot Com is where you can find all the stuff that I work on. Like just mentioned, there's a lot, so if you're interested, head on over there. As for this show, Scary Stories weetell dot com, Scary Stories WT on social media, and that's where you can go for that. Big thanks is always too Maggie and Dustin for the behind the scenes stuff that they do, along with our good friend Alex Malnack of Blondo. He provides the music for the show.

You can find him kicking around Midwest. You can find Maggie at Dolan Museum dot com. And as for us, we're gonna let our former We're gonna let that, Okay, weld on. As for us, we're gonna let the former host of Sightings, mister Tim White, lead us out. No mystery is closed to an open mind.