Campfire Stories with Mike from Charm City Paranormal: Ghost Hunting, Genuine Finds, First Hand Encounters

Weird. Let's get this good stuff on tape, dragging all these YouTubers who totally deserve it. I don't know what you're talking about giving anybody like that any amount of times, just like that's what they want, so best not even to mention them by names. You're out there in the world, Hello everyone, and welcome to Scary Stories we Tell. I am your host, Kristash.

You and I am joined by my good friend. You've heard him here once before because him and I are exceedingly busy people, and he's got a brand that he's growing, just like me. His brand is all over on the video side of things. You have heard him here before. You're a friend and mine.

Mike from charm City Paranormal, how's going, man o? Busy but not hunting for ghosts? Talking about ghosts, not hunting for them, as as you seem to be still carrying the torch over it. I mean, what else would you be doing a charm City Paranormal baking cakes? Maybe that would be amazing.

And Michael charm City Paranormal, come help bake a haunted cake with me? Yeah, this is this is totally cursed and fore I don't teach you how to bake it. I think you've hit the nail. I think you found content here. Though you may need to start creating, but then you'd just be like you would just be like ripping people off.

I feel I feel like, so what if my audience has never heard you here before, though they should totally check out the last episode that you and I did together. What could people expect to find if they head on over to your YouTube channel, charm City Paranormal. We've been making a ton of long form paranormal investigations, sort of like a documentary style. I like to combine cinematic elements with the found footage, sort of POV style of investigating, just real, raw, natural investigating, no sensationalizing or hyping things up, just the way it's intended to be, which I mean sounds like it wouldn't be that commonplace, but it's not because most people aren't interested in doing what you do, which is what I feel like for me, at least as someone who consumes a lot of that kind of content, sets you apart.

Obviously is a much more one might say, mature approach to doing this. Thank you right, try You're not screaming at the ghosts no, because that's not how I got started. And you know, my experience with all this stuff has started out very real. It's always been real. I mean it's been real for the three years that I've been doing it now, nothing has changed, And I don't know, I never approached it that way, like it never it's exciting, but it's not that exciting to the extent that, you know, a lot of content that I feel like is out now is just strictly entertainment, Like it's not there to present the question of life after death.

It's just there to scare people. And I don't know, I kind of combine different elements of like what's entertaining, but what can also be captivating and just try to gather real evidence and present it in a way that you want to watch it. I mean, I want to create things that I want to watch, and I don't know, there's just seems to be it's just such a large difference between super entertaining creators a lot of cinematics, screaming cuts, things like that, and then just raw evidence like uploaded, no editing. Here's the whole three hours of filming, and it's really hard to pick one or the other. So I kind of just went straight down the middle with it, and I think it's interesting because ob you know, if you're you know, and I don't know any of these YouTubers, and I'm sure you do, but you know, obviously we're not here to drag anybody because just because that content is not for me doesn't mean people aren't enjoying it.

Doesn't mean it doesn't have value. I'm sure you would agree, but no, I mean it's it's people make what they want to make, right. I don't. I don't judge anybody for what they do. It's just for me personally, Like I want real evidence, right, I don't want to just entertain, so but if that's what people want to do, I'm cool.

Man. I guess I guess my question that I wonder about because again, you know, if when you have found evidence on your investigations that you've done, it's, you know, it's pretty interesting. I would say it's pretty captivating, and in a lot of ways, I would say it's pretty convincing, especially for someone like myself, who I like you, you know, I'm I'm always looking, But I am also have a healthy dose of skepticism because, like anything else, I think to be honest, you kind of have to it. In the world of the paranormal the supernatural, if someone on one of those kinds of shows found evidence that was incontrovertible, would they have a harder time finding people to believe them, or convincing people or presenting that evidence because of the way that they make their content.

That is something I've always wondered about, because it's kind of answering that question is almost also answering question about your own content, right, because why you would do the way you're doing is to be perceived in a way that when you find things, people go, yes, I believe you, so do I mean, I'm just just curious as a content creator, how like, how do you feel about that kind of possible quandary or paradox one might find themselves. So I guess what you're trying to say is like if somebody were to strictly be entertaining and that's like their baseline content, right, and then one day they find something that is like it changes their beliefs, You're saying, like, it's harder for them to switch and present that as believable.

Well, and if they found that thing while doing that, like could you, as someone who makes entertainment only content be taken seriously should you actually find something to the scale of what you're finding, because of the stuff that you're finding is very convincing. I mean, the EVPs, a lot of the physical interactions. We talked about them last time. I'm sure we're going to talk about it more this time, especially the one that you had that kind of started all of this for you. Like if you were someone who just made entertaining content, all of a sudden you had something happened, people might be like, really though, and I think it's unfortunate obviously, Yeah, I mean I think definitely at first, because you know, you set a baseline for your audience of what type of content that you deliver, and if it's for a very very long time, you know, dozens or even hundreds of those videos, that's what people expect of you.

And then one day you just switch it up and you're trying to convince people that what you're finding is real. I'm sure in the beginning it would be very hard. There'd be a lot of pushback and people, you know, it would just cause a bunch of talking amongst the community. But I don't know, I think that if somebody were consistent enough and like worked very hard to add to that credibility over a long period of time and didn't succumb to the pressures of what people were saying and just kept putting it out there, eventually, I think the narrative could change for that person. But it'd be really hard.

Like you, you've been known as like strictly entertainment, and now you're trying to take it seriously. I don't I don't knock anybody for wanting to do that. I think it's you know, I'm almost a maturity in a sense to want to take what we do seriously and push it to the next level. But yeah, it'd be it'd be really difficult, right, It's a long road. Well, and again I think, you know, at least in my mind, if I were to embark down the path that you've gone, I think to your point, it's it's hard to balance both because I think if you go too far in one direction, it's like we're saying, like you, you lose the possibility of being perceived in a way where what you're finding is again being truthfully presented again, real or unreal or not is not important, but I feel like if you set out at least to ride the line where you understand that people need to be entertained by this, but you have to, like you're saying, like, do this in a way where it's presenting the raw evidence.

I feel like that's the right way to go about it. It's just it's strange to me how few people are doing it outside of yourself. That's surprising, isn't It kind of is in a way like yeah, because it's often one or the other, and rarely is it. Really it's often more in the entertainment side of things. I mean, even the bigger name people, they you know, they're entertaining you, and that is the end goal.

I don't know the goal of presenting the evidence anymore is important because at some point you're just like you're always going to find something like again, like not to knock them, but it's just it's weird because we as content creators often don't really talk about how these things are perceive. We think about how these things are perceived, but talking about how the things are perceived is often different because we can understand how we believe our things are being perceived too. Where blue in the face, but like even another content creator is going to perceive what one of us does vary differently from ourselves. Yeah, and I think it really I think it boils down to two things too. I mean, obviously there's a hundreds of factors that you know, you have to think about when starting content, and I think it really for me, it boils down to two major things.

With most people that I either observe in the space or just come across, I think it boils down to first impressions if you're super important, and motivation, like why are you starting this? Why do you want to make content? You find your niche, you grow a brand, you start pushing more content out daily, upping your ability to edit, network with people, and then over time those motives might change. You know, some of these people might start out honest and genuine and just want to present raw evidence, and then something happens and it changes the motive and they see the potential for you know, a lot of money, statu recognition, networking opportunities, and it just changes the motive. So you go from presenting raw evidence to entertainment, or trying to go from entertainment to even raw evidence, because that's starting to get really big now, Paranormal is getting bigger and bigger every year.

It's crazy, yeah, but yeah, I think it really just boils down to first impressions and what your motivation is, like why are you doing this? Do you want to? Like for me personally, I wanted to just present what was a very real experience for me to other people to validate that because I had never experienced anything like that in my life. It was terrifying, and I felt crazy as shit for like the first week because I just couldn't process it, and I just kept thinking about it, and eventually I was like, all right, I'll put content out. I'll see you know.

I'll just make this a public video because I was streaming on Twitch, so a few people knew about it, and it just slowly grew and I realized there was a ton of people that believed in this stuff as hard as I do, and that was huge motivation to keep going. So like, baseline for me has always been just sharing integral evidence and presenting it in a way that it doesn't lean the viewer into like a bias. So I just present it as it is and it's like, here, you make your own decision on this, Like I'm not saying this is or isn't this thing, but I hope that I can present it in a way that it has convinced me and will convince you the same way. Right, the evidence itself is convincing enough, I mean, and again, like exactly, you stand by the evidence you're presenting.

I mean, like you said, I'm presenting it without as much bias as I can. But like you could have picked any other piece of evidence to present, this is the one you're choosing to present, so that in of itself feels like you know, And again, like you said, if you know what you're doing, and you do clearly, you can make sure that what you're presenting is more important less how you're presenting it, because to present it in a way that pairs it down to this is it, this is what it is. Take a look, make your own decision. I really respect that because it does like you said, it's just it's you just saying, take a look at this, and you tell me what you think. I'm confident enough that you'll come to a similar conclusion that I did.

And I appreciate that because that shows that you really do just in doubt it. But like to hear you say that out loud. For me, as someone in this space, that is not something that a lot of people are saying. It's like, let the evidence speak for itself. Oftentimes it's like the evidence is here and everything around it is the important thing.

It's like, the evidence is what's important, and the evidence should be what's important, because if you're looking for this and trying to make people understand the experiences that you've had or share them, gussing it up is not gonna do much. It's just gonna. It's just gonna. I mean, you can only make something. You can only make something as exciting as possible up unto a certain point, Like hearing an EVP is only going to be as exciting as hearing an EVP.

I'm not like, unless you like heard it in the moment and you reacted to it or something like, it's still just an EVP. But if it's a convincing EVP or evidence is strong that it doesn't matter. Like it just doesn't. Yeah, I think you know, like you said, the evidence should speak for itself. And with the way that I try to present this stuff, I mean, obviously you have to adapt to the space.

You have to you know, thumbnails descriptions, intros, things like that. You have to do certain things to get people's attention, right, But I feel like I'm trying to go about it in a way that like, obviously I want to get your attention with like the music and the cuts and the footage, make it cinematic, captivate you in the beginning, and then you realize this is a real paranormal investigation, Like this isn't entertainment, that they're really doing this. So like I think people will initially look at it, you know, maybe the thumbnails or the titles or watch like the first thirty seconds and think that it's entertainment, but then you realize, like I'm just presenting the story of a place that we went to.

This is the history of it, this is what happened to us. Do with this information what you will, right, It's just I try to create it in a way that is entertaining in the sense that it's visually appealing, not entertaining like freaking out and adding sound effects and all that stuff. But like I wanted to be visually appealing to people. I want people to look at this and get this is a ghost time, like this this is fucking wild, like that's always been my goal, which is where I came away from the first time, you know, four months ago I watched your content. I was like, I don't understand how nobody has done this before, where you like, like you just said, making it look good is as important as presenting convincing evidence.

Like absolutely most of the shows and most of the shows on TV, and let's not talk about other YouTubers, most of the shows on TV, that's not at all something they care about. It's boots on the ground, dudes with cameras doing this, and it's like nobody cares about the other part of this, which is it's twenty twenty three. You can make people feel like they're there without sticking the camera on someone's face constantly, Like it doesn't have to be that to get across. These are places that need to be respected. Because I watched your man's field reformatory piece that you did, and you know what, because I have one of the co hosts of this show, Jess, lives in Akron and when I went to visit them, we talked about going, and the next time I visit, I would like to go.

But then I saw your video and I was like, there's no fucking way I'm going to this place. I means no for a lot of reasons, namely just it looks. It looks dangerous. I know it's probably not right, but like all these right but like these abandoned buildings, that's what they exude. But when I was thinking about it, was like, it can't be that dangerous because people are allowed to go there all the time.

Oh wait, it's just the success of what you're doing with your footage that makes it look that way. And that is a success because I knew you would tell me it's not dangerous because I know it's not, because there's no way that they would let anybody in there if it was fucking falling apart the way that it seems. But that's a testament to the quality of what you're doing, where it's you're setting me in this place with you at night and it feels intimidating, and that is not something that I feel like a lot of people are really interested in doing. I appreciate that, man' that's the goal. It makes me happy to hear that.

Well. I like watching people make content that are taking everything into account and it's not just like you said, screaming and making noises and there's a spooky ghost like you know, that's fine, but to what end? And with your content, it's like you've added something that is so much more on top of that that I again, I feel like it not only sets itself apart, but it really demands your attention because again it's clear to me, you know what you're doing behind a camera, even if it's not just doing the ghost stuff. The ghost stuff, it's I mean, I'm not going to say it's not that hard, but to give someone a camera and say just point it in these directions while I'm standing there. You can do that.

Anybody can with an iPhone. But now to go and say I want to make something visually appealing that as the language of film in it. As a film watcher, I personally appreciate that, and clearly other people it's resonated with them as well. I honestly, I'm being totally honest with you. I only kind of know what I'm doing.

I want to be proud of it when I look back on it, you know, like I want to look at this forty years from now, You're like, look at you know, twenty seven year old me, this dumb ass making these videos is so is great. As a kid, I get it, Like it's like I want to put my best foot forward because people can tell like and anymore, Like like we were talking before we started recording, like time feels like it's speeding up and times getting shorter. It's like I don't have all day any more than anybody else does to just sit and watch shitty content. Like I want to watch something where the person making it is giving a shit as much as I am giving a shit watching it. Yeah, I think that's very important.

Like you want to you want to present it in a way that it's going to keep people coming back. And I mean, I don't know, Like at the end of the day, people are going to create what they want to create for their own reasons, and they have their own motives. I just for me, I just wanted to create stuff that I wanted to watch. That's the kind of stuff I like to watch, and that's what really gets my attention. And there's only a handful of people in the space besides me that do it that way that make it captivating and interesting.

So I just I have fun with it. I kind of just live in that little bubble of Charmed City and just try to make the best thing that I can. Wow, if that's if you if you haven't reached your full form yet, bro, when you get there. I mean again, your stuff is so entertaining and so unique right now, Like again, I watch everything that you put out because it's it's exactly the kind of stuff I like to watch. And it's the And you're not here by accident.

I mean, you know, Josh introduced us, but like you're not here by accident. Like I'm a fan of what you do, so getting to talk to you is you know, it's a treat for me because I'm i am not only a fan of your content, but a content creator myself. So you know, I do have to ask you though, because again, Mansfield Reformatory, I feel like it is one of the big ones in the United States right right. People know it who don't live in Ohio, and we I think we kind of touched on it a little bit when we did our episode last time, but kind of you know, in that space being there, kind of understanding the history and not only the haunted history of the of the place, but also just the base history of it before it became the Haunted Reformatory when it was just the Reformatory.

Kind of how important was it for you to go to somewhere like the Mansfield Reformatory and and for what you're doing do it? Do it the kind of justice that you do the things that you do for the things that you do. I mean a lot of the times when I go to these places, I do very light research, so like I just kind of skim over broad details to get familiar with the space so I know what I'm walking into, and then I go and have the experience and then do my in depth research afterwards to see if anything that happened to us coordinates with either paranormal events or if we got you know, just rough example, like an EVP of a name of somebody that's been dated and it is significant. And I think that really a lot of it.

I think going out in the field and experiencing things first is important to me and then researching the in depth history afterwards, because I just I don't know, like you have this title of paranormal investigator, Like the investigative part is going out and getting your hands dirty and having those experiences and then cross referencing that with the information that's already available and then presenting that in your own words or in your own way. And I feel like integrating the investigation with the history that we find and presenting it in our own way is really what drives me to keep making the content that I make, because I'm really I'm just trying to share the stories of our experiences with these places and hope that they resonate with somebody else that has either had that experience or wants to have that kind of experience.

So, yes, history is equally as important in investigating as investigating and doing it respectfully, but I think it should be more about sharing the experience with everybody collectively baseline, and then just kind of researching that. Mom there, just again, I see, I see what you mean. I see what you I actually see what you mean. Because to go to go and research ahead of time kind of informs what you expect you're going to get exactly. It's like you get a preconceived notion of the place, so then you go in with like an expectation that's already set in your brain, whereas if you go in without a whole lot of information or history, and then you have your experiences like who's to say that somebody or five other people had that same experience and you're like, oh shit, me too, and I didn't know anything about the place.

I think that's interesting because I would feel like, I wonder, how how is that talking with other people that you work with or know in the space. That's atypical. Right to do the research after the fact. No, really, no interesting, I'm glad to hear that thing. No.

If anything, I'm sure people probably look at me and go like, what the fuck it. That's just how I like to do it. I like to go in and experience the haunt of it first, right, and then learn about it because I can't tell you how many times I've gone into places and I've had experiences, and then I do the research and it's like, holy shit, I got an EVP of this woman, or I like I heard this woman's name, or she like talk to us, or this man or this child or whatever. So then I don't know. I just feel like it kind of reinforces the evidence because now in my brain I'm able to present it in like an excited new discovery way, versus I already knew this right, I knew this person might be there.

Yeah, like it just I feel like it presents the evidence differently that way because I don't have I have a different mindset going into it, and most people, I mean most people aren't doing that. I mean even probably myself wouldn't do that. I would, you know, research, and but to do it that way, I think it's interesting. I think it's again right right or right or wrong? Is right or wrong?

I think is an important right because, like you said, it's kind of comes down to your personal preference on the matter. But I think it gives you more of a blind experience, which I think if you're doing what you're doing, my perception would be you'd want to have as blind of an experience as possible, to the point where you don't even I mean again, it's unrealistic to be like, you don't even know where you're going, But wouldn't that be the best case scenario for someone like yourself is just to be dropped somewhere you don't even know, yeah, and then just be like, go here for a day and an evening and I'm not going to tell you shit about it. You can't ask questions, you can come to realizations or conclusions in your head based on what you're saying, but I'm not telling you where you are.

That would be like the best case scenario if for're talking about a purely blind reaction capturing of the footage. Has anyone done that? And why are you? Why haven't you yet? I mean I'm kidding, but like it's kind of a novel concept, right, No, it is, And that's I mean, I don't know why people don't.

I feel like people want to get as much information about something as possible and just be absolutely educated on it. I mean, you don't want to seem like you're not an expert, right, I mean, look, you don't want to seem like you're not an expert. But like, to be fair, he's an expert, right, But to be that's fair. How can you be an expert about things that are uncompletely unknowable, right, right? Like it's all subjective, it's but the history is, the history is knowable, That's what I'm saying.

Like there's the history of the place, and then there's like the haunted history of the place. Like you said, if someone says the name Joe Bob Marshall, you can go look and there may have been someone named Joe Bob Marshall who was there. But then what does that mean? Like what does that mean? Right?

Like that's the part that people should get excited about and start digging more into bran doing their own informed research on it, versus like digging everything up first and then going in like expecting all this stuff because then, like I don't know, I just feel like it changes the thought process of the investigation, Like you're not going in excited wondering what you're going to find. You're you're more or less set on like I want to find information on this, this, this, and that. Right happens if you don't check all those boxes, they're like halfway through the investigation just burnt out because nothing that you want to happen is happening, versus just being like, Okay, we're going to this hospital.

You know X amount of people passed. It was built in this year and it closed in this year. That's all we know, right, And we go in and then tons of stuff is happening and we research later and it's like, holy shit, all this stuff that happened to us in the form of like paranormal or at least what we perceive as paranormal is like roughly documented. This is crazy. We got this person's name, this person said this, this is where they were, this was their cell or this was their bed, and I just that makes it more exciting to want to present it to people.

And that's what gives I feel like paranormal evidence that captivating feel because the person creating the presentation is more enthusiastic about it and they're more excited about it because they're making discoveries on their own through their paranormal experiences and then finding some reference of history documented about that. So if I feel like doing it's kind of backwards, yes, because I'm not like, I guess, educating myself on the location before I go, but I'm I'm doing a baseline research, like I'm learning a little bit, but not so much to the point that, like I said, you go in with preconceived notions, because that takes half the fun out of what we do. It's exciting to go in there and not know anything and then just all of a sudden, you make all these these connections.

It's like the Forest Haven video. We filmed there for two years before we finally had like a piece of the puzzle and we're like, wait, all of this stuff connect the last two years and twenty thirty investigations that we've done at this place, they all connect and they all tell a story, and like we can share the story, we can make it all make sense and keep going back, and like, I just feel like that's more exciting and that's what convinces people. And I'm completely with you. And again it's it's weird to me to sit here and say why don't more do that? And I get what I mean, we both understand why they don't because you don't.

I don't know, you don't go to the Sally House because it's not haunted and you don't know the history, right, Like, that's the problem. I went to the Sally House, and I'm you and I both know what. I was expecting to see something along the lines of what everyone else had seen. And if I had seen something else, what would that have meant to me? Right?

Like? If I had seen something that no one else had ever seen there, then what then? What's my read? Then? Did I fucking hallucinate?

Am I seeing things that aren't there? And I think to your point, it's like what does that mean? Right? And I mean it becomes a more personal experience for you, and that also depending on the way that you present that to the world. And I guess more or less the confidence that you have and what you're presenting, it becomes a new chapter of that legacy or whatever that haunted history is.

I mean, like I said, nobody's an expert, and the stuff is always changing and there's always new methods and ideas, and personal experiences are hard to share because you don't know if it's going to be just a personal experience or if it's collective and other people I've experienced it too, So like I don't know, I think just being confident in the presentation and you're able to add chapters and new chapters to these these stories through your experiences, and maybe other people will experience it too. So what does what thought process does go into you selecting places for investigations? Because I don't think we talked about that last time a whole lot we talked more specifically about Forest Haven.

But what drives you to make a decision about where you're going to go and spend your time because again, clearly, just by looking at what you're doing, you spend a lot of time there, and then you obviously spend a lot of time in post production, so you know you're spending on average, on average a video, it probably takes you three, four, five, ten thirty times longer than the video was length ends up being. I mean it's pretty long, right, I'm assuming the amount of time you spend doing anything. I mean it ranges some some weeks or forty fifty hours, right, I'd say the average video it takes about eighty hours to make, but right, and the videos are hour two three depends, right, it's yeah, it's usually between like thirty minutes too.

At the longest video I have right now, I think is an hour and a half. So that's two years of footage and about eight hundred gigs of files that got shaved down to about an hour and a half, which is crazy, right, exhausting, right, exhausting? So what goes into your decision? Yeah, all this background about how long it takes to get it to the point where I would sit down or anybody would sit down to watch it, what goes into your decisions about where you're going? Because again, he's not just going to go down the road, because you're not going to spend eighty hours on just someplace down the road, or maybe you would.

It depends, but what goes into those decisions when it comes to picking where you want to go, Really, I think the initial history that I learned about places tends to fascinate me. I started out doing a lot of mental hospitals, asylums, tuberculosis hospitals, things like that, and places dujure in this certain part of this country. I feel like, at least East Coast stuff, right, Yeah, there's a lot of them here on the East Coast. And initially it was just the interest in like creepy, scary shit because I initially was going to do erbas so that really got me into exploring these places, and then over time it kind of changed to more or less like it's a very subtle message in a lot of the videos, Like I've been to a lot of places houses, prisons, hospitals, forests, but it all started with asylums, and the subtle message with a lot of those series or with a lot of those videos was more about raising awareness about mental health and just how people were treated from the early nineteen hunt or even you know, late seventeen hundreds up until you know modern day.

So like a lot of it was I was drawn to those stories and drawn to I guess, human suffrage and just making people aware of it and making people aware of like, hey, this is this is what we used to do to people not too long ago. And yes, the like the topic is ghost hunting and talking to the spirits, but like I want people to be aware of the history of those places. And so a lot of it goes into like how can I present this in a way that is not only just a ghost hunt. It's not just you know, trying to talk to things and get devices to golf, But how can I present this in a way that will leave an impact on you and make you think about more than just the ghost hunt? Like what can can you pull something out of the message of this place, the history or the story of this place, Like is there some underlying current with all of this?

You know, if you've stripped the ghost hunting and the cinematics away, what what are you seeing in this? Like do you it's and it all really just points to like how like stories of how people were treated and how history has the tendency to repeat itself just a newtiade a paint. And I think if people can realize that either just through the basic history that I explain or the more in depth videos like Forest Aven and correlate the evidence and just hear these stories and look at it as like just just how people were treated. Treat people better, be kind to each other, and enjoy the content. But but look at history, look at the way that people are treated, look at how society has just kind of like backpedaled a little bit, and how we treat each other.

And I think the history these places tell that story and we see that like it's not it wasn't that long ago, and there's just these little gaps that you know, we hit a gap where things are fine for a bit and then it's right back to the next evolution of that history. And you learn that as you as you watch these and or at least how I try to present them, like you see like these periods of time that it just keeps happening over and over again. So I hope that people will watch and see like that underlying message. And that's how I decide on where I want to go, because if there's something there that I feel is impactful enough to people that will get them to pay attention, you know, throwing the cinematics and learn color grading and audio and how to present things but take something from it other than just the ghost time.

So each location I feel like has that when you us into the history that I present and how I present it and you just hear the stories of these prisoners or these asylum patients or the family or whatever the case may be, I want it to impact you in a way that'll make you think about it for a while. So if it's just some random location, like obviously we want to hit the bigger ones, because that's how people will look at your stuff, Like they want to see people go to the conjuring house, to the Axe House, to reformatory trans all AGAINY Like, yeah, we're obviously going to go to those places, but I want to also get these like low key almost never heard of places that have these incredible stories and these this incredible history and present that in a way that is like impactful to you beyond paranormal.

It's just paranormals kind of like that that's what you see, Like that's how I get your attention with it. But I want the story to mean more than just the ghost time. I don't know if anybody else is doing that. I totally long winded explanation but that's pretty much it. Yeah, I don't is anybody else like again, like that feels so uniquely People our age really like mental health.

I mean, mental health is a huge thing for people our age myself including yourself included, and like to me to have that be part of the content that you're making, that's like, this is not something anybody else I'm watching is doing or serving as a tenant of why they're doing it. Is to make sure that we are informed as to why these things happen and how they shouldn't happen again, even if you know stumbling and falling is is is a thing that does happen, like you would hope that it's this way, not down or plateauing it. And I think it's admirable to have that as part of the reason you make content, because to leave the world in a better place than we found it, I think is something that's important and that's something I try to do as well with my content because I wouldn't want to make content that's I don't know, leaving the world in a worst spot.

Yeah, insufferable is a good way of putting it destructive, I think, I mean again, in anymore, like when you're when people's words have meaning to the point where people are taking them out of context and are motivated to do things by words in these day and ages, Like, Yeah, I would, there's some level of responsibility needs to be accepted by content creators. And that's it's what that's what you're doing. You're accepting responsibility and you're also like allowing the audience to share in the responsibility of what you're doing, which is important. And it's not going to resonate with everybody, but the people that it does resonate with is that it's important to them, right. And I feel like it's gotten to the point now like my audience knows what to expect, right, and I've kind of set that standard for what type of content I'm going to deliver, and they seem to be really happy with it.

They're very patient, they're very kind. I have a very kind, caring, just a happy community and I'm really proud of that should be something to be it's in this day and a just something to be proud of. Yeah, And and like you know, they're very supportive of what I do. I know it takes sometimes a little bit longer than usual to get what I make out, but they're they're very accepting of that and understanding. Like I've never I feel some pressure like internally just just because of how I am with myself to get more out and do more, because it's just inherently in me to just strive and push as much as I can.

But like if I miss something or if I'm late, you know I'm not. I don't deal with like a ton of backlash or like where where's the video? Where's this? Where I can't believe as we're not supporting you anymore. They're just like, take your time when it's when it's ready, we'll be ready.

And I never thought I would have that, Like I always see, you know, starting out as just like a little YouTuber with ten fifty one hundred subs, seeing these huge creators and like looking at how things are with them in their communities when they miss things, it's like fifty fifty. You get some that are like understanding and supportive of it, and then you get some that are freaking out and losing their minds about it. And I'm really fortunate for that. So they're very very cool people, and it allows me to have that breathing room to constantly grow and push myself to create better and better content at a pace that I'm comfortable with, which I think is important because you know, we talk about mental health and kind of our responsibility as content creators to take that into consideration for what we're making, but also taking into consideration for ourselves, like you said, because again, I mean this kind of work, Like a lot of things, nobody sees the back end stuff, and I'm not expecting anybody's going to.

It's not like you and I are like, hey, come and sit on Twitch with me while I edit a video, yeah for nine hours, which I've done that before. Brother, I believe it. Just like I've sat here and done the exact same thing, editing podcasts and promoting. I mean, we've all done it. It's just like that's not fun.

Most things people do with their jobs aren't fun. It's just weird because you know, I have a sibling who works a job at a retail company, and I've never seen what she does for a living. But I can go and see what you do for a living pretty clearly on the Internet, and it's like it's it's kind of strange because in a way, that amount of work that gets put into it is immediately lost when it's when it's released, it's like and it's done and it's out there. But like we have to internalize that amount of work because we're the only ones who can. But it's nice to have you having found an audience that understands at least a little bit of that and it's a shit about you enough to be like, all right, that's nice, like good, thank god.

Yeah, dude, I'm super fortunate because that for me, like for a long time, especially when stuff first started taking off, it definitely felt like a lot of pressure had built up all at once, and like it wasn't a bad thing. It was definitely exciting, and it was a shock to see it grows so exponentially, seemingly like it wasn't overnight, but it just felt like it was overnight, like the last two years. It just coming on like that, so it didn't feel like a long time. And then it all kind of caught up. But then I realized, like, these people are willing to wait for good, honest content, so that's that's what I'm going to give them.

And it kind of goes back on what you say about like we as content creators have a responsibility to our audience and to the people that we're presenting to to present things that are honest and genuine. I mean, even if it's just entertainment and not even paranormal, but just in general, just any kind of content, we have a responsibility to present honest and authentic material that is not a harm to people, you know, like don't we don't need to continue to harm people any more than they already are. So I think that building pressure of you know, like like I said earlier, the fifty fifty split of like some communities are really cool and understanding and some aren't. I think that pressure that builds with the communities that aren't is what causes people to kind of deviate off of that path of integrity and honesty to an extent.

It just becomes a numbers game, right, Like we got to get as much out as possible whatever is easy, quick and fast, and it just kind of it degrades the whole experience. Like you don't you stop watching as much? People watch less and less and then it just kind of goes away. And I think if people are willing to be patient and just understand that we're humans and we can only do so much as one individual, Like you don't have a team. I don't have a team.

It's just me. I've gotten comments of people being like, your production team is crazy, and I'm like, it's just me. I'll thank them, pats self on back and pat both shoulders. But like it's it's nice to have people that do understand how much goes into it. And as result of that, I don't feel any kind of pressure to present something that is any less than what it's been.

Right, that's awesome because like again, like just to when you think about as a content creator, because again, you know, as consumers of things, I assume I'd like to believe that people who consume the content are thinking about us less as entertainment robots and more as you know, that's a real person and they're spending their time to do this Like it's it's not. I don't think a lot of content creators are honest about these kinds of things because I don't think it's like something anybody wants to talk about because you might rub somebody the wrong right, Like, because it's there's nothing glamorous about sitting at your computer for ten hours and editing a video, Like no, nothing there's nothing glamorous about sitting at your computer for you know, a couple hours, four times a day, doing four different episodes of a show.

Like, it's nothing glamorous about it. It's just like everybody else's job. It's just your Excel spreadsheet doesn't sing and talk mine does. Like it's you know what I mean, like it Ultimately, that's really what it boils down to. I feel like though, you know, for me, what the other thing I think about is, you know, with people's time, people nowadays, they have so many options, Like it's you know, you're also fighting for every piece of attention too, So if you're gonna be disingenuous, people can tell, because there are plenty of content creators who are disingenuous, all doing the same thing.

To be genuine in this day and age is more important. But I do feel, I do feel, as someone who consumes a lot of content that to be genuine is more important because people can tell, and people want to watch genuine content because the amount of disingenuous content is like a fire hose, yeah yeah, and the genuine people are the genuine people are dripping. The disingenuous is like constant. Yeah, it thrives, unfortunately, and you're to make Yeah, it is. It's very easy to make UM And I don't know like people, people catch on eventually and they don't.

You know, I think when you initially present whatever you're making, you want to make a good first impression, right, you know you don't. You don't want to mess around and set the baseline for your content as like negative associations. I guess if we're speaking on the sense of paranormal and like faking evidence or being entertaining um again, I I personally I don't. I don't consume that content, so I don't care and it doesn't affect me or like my thought process us and what I'm doing. It does suck because it invalidates people's experiences and it kind of makes it harder for people like me to prove this stuff, or at least prove it in a way that seems convincing.

But at the end of the day, I'm still going to make the same content, and it's not going to stop me from presenting real evidence or what I think is real evidence. So in some sense, I just don't care and I don't see why people get worked up about it. But I also understand that these people do try to present it as real when it's not right, and the people are like buying their merch and subscribing to their Patreon and like giving these people money and supporting them, and they're being willfully deceived. And it's one thing to like state yourself as an entertainer and just like, hey, this is just for fun, Like I'm not here to like try and prove anything. I just like this topic cool, Like who cares?

You know, people are going to make what they want to make. But if you're I feel like, if you're being disingenuine about what you're doing, people are going to catch on and they're not gonna waste their time with it, and then you're just going to kind of burn out. But again, it's just how you present It's people are pretty good at presenting things um and getting attention on the thing they're presenting. So boy, until rater it's too late, they grow and then they blow up and then you find out later on it's like oh damn, it's like I don't know, he's he's sustained it. He's good, he's or she's sustained it.

Like they're going to keep going until they completely burn out. Yeah. Well, well, and I mean well, and I mean this this industry of the paranormal, of paranormal and supernatural entertainment, like you said, I mean, it's it's growing so much and it will be you know, a year from now, it'll be even bigger than it is now. And there will be you know, the celebrities that are like getting ghost hunting shows now, I know, on TV and getting into ghost hunting. They have millions and millions of followers, ten twenty fifty million followers.

And I'd like to point out Demilovado and Kesha. Neither one of their people responded to the emails I sent from a legitimate supernatural and paranormal podcast asking them to be on my show to talk with them about their genuine experiences, and I got a narry a response. So is again, what is I wonder the same thing. I mean, I don't want to call them out directly, but those are the two that I emailed that I didn't get a response from, and those are the two big ones. They are.

It's legitimateous celebrities that are now doing this and doing it whatever it is. Yeah, and it's I feel like it's one of those things that a lot of people are. You know, it's very split down the middle between entertainment and wanting to validate experiences and right, it all goes back on what we said about like motivation and what is making you want to do this. Are you just trying to cash in on scaring people or are you trying to validate an experience that you had and create a community of people that all share that together, right, make life a little bit easier, like be okay with the idea of death and like knowing that there is more after this, because that's kind of the I mean, that's the baseline for what we do, Like we want to prove life after death.

We want to see if there's an the other side or more to this. So, I don't know, I feel like it's it's very split, like oh this, everybody's getting into this now, that's top on it before it gets really big, or hey, I'm into this too, and I want to do the same thing, like genuine and honestly, it's just kind of go one way or the other. There is no gray area with it. Well, and I feel like one of those directions hurts everybody else more than it helps because like you, like you said, I mean, you know, when the people in the space that are the most visible are the ones that feel them again most least, but feel disingenuous, it hurts everybody who's trying to be genuine because it's like, well, you're in the same space as these people, and it's like, but I'm not doing that at all.

Like but and that's the thing, Like you are, but you aren't. Like you're going and doing paranormal investigations, but you're not doing what they're doing at even in the slightest. It's like saying I know how to cook. It's like, well, I cook at a McDonald's in Debuke, Iyowa, or I cook at LINEA in Chicago, and I have three Michelin stars. Yes, we're both technically cooks.

Like correct, that's a good way to put it. Yeah, Like we both engage in the act of cooking, just like you and Demi Lobato engage in the act of paranormal investigation. And that is it. That is as far as the comparisons would be drawn. But that's why people who are actually spending the time to watch both And that's the problem.

It's one is allowed to make so much more noise and attracts so much more attention, and is advertised so heavily on Discovery, plus it would be hard to miss it. Yeah. I don't have any of that. So, but you have the other thing that's much more important, which is genuine content, which cannot be manufactured. You can't see, you can fake being disingenuous, you can't feed, you cannot fake being genuine, not forever at least, No, I don't think so.

And again I got started on this because of what happens to me. There was no right, there was no big check, there was no you didn't see the trends and were hopping on the trends. Yeah, I didn't. Up until the experience at the asylum, I had zero involvement in paranormal like, I had none, nothing, not so much as like an episode of Ghosts. To this day, I have seen one episode of Ghost Adventures that tells you how much like I was into the paranormal.

I wasn't. I had what I was doing. So when it happened to me, it was so real in life changing that it's like, oh wow, there's actually this massive community of people that believe in this stuff. This is cool I want to be involved in this and add to this space in a positive way and convince people that this stuff is real, right, and that's that's it, that was it, that was only the only motivation behind it. And it just sucks to see.

I don't know, I don't I don't want to like start problems with anybody, but it just sucks to see that people can just take a ton of money and throw it at something like this because it's not I mean, we're talking about like afterlife stuff and serious things, distance and being comfortable with the idea of leaving this physical body one day, because we're just like, ooh, spooky Kate to go beep and they get paid twenty thousand dollars an episode, and it's just I don't know, I feel like it's a slap to the face for a lot of people that do what I do because I'm not, like I'm sure maybe I'm one of the very few people that present that the way that I do, But there are so many good paranormal investigator researchers historians that are in the field that don't make the same kind of content, so they're not seen as much.

I guess they're not making YouTube, they're making other stuff. There so many of them that like they're so talented, so smart, so educated, but like they don't get the same voice as like somebody who wrote, you know, two platinum selling albums and now is deciding they woke up one day and they're like, I'm gonna hunt ghosts. Where they sang two platinum selling albums, you might be giving them even more credit than they deserve. Yeah, maybe I'm putting it lightly, but yeah, I just I don't know. I want people to see this stuff and believe it.

It's real to me. I don't have any reason to to fabricate or try to sensationalize what I do, and I just want to present it in a way that it convinces you the same way convinced me all those years ago. And I'm with you. I mean, you know that's the thing that you bums me out about, you know, Like I said, I mean not like like you're saying not to call anyone out directly, But I did email Kesha's publicity team and Demi Lebado's publicity team, and I have spoken two people about their experiences before that have been willing to and plenty of people willing to just talk about their experiences and working in the industry. So it's not like, oh, mister, nobody emailing Kesha and Demi Levado, They're never going to respond to you.

Actually, I was more surprised that they didn't, because people in this community tend to be rather open and willing to talk with one another. You and I don't know each other outside of the two times we've talked, but yet we've made time for one another on a weekend to do so, so that in my mind, it's like I could call up some of the people I've only spoken with once or twice in this world of the paranormal supernatural and have a conversation with them, like I'm old friends with them, because that's just kind of the way this industry is. In a way, everybody kind of feels kind of closely knit. Even if some of the people are more success the less the less, there's less people feeling connected at the higher end of this, I feel like, but that's intentional because they're insulated from everything else by right design.

But I feel like the community at large feels rather connected, and some of my closest friends are people I've met through this the world or the paranormal supernatural, and asking the questions of is there anything else? Or what comes after debt? People interested in that question tend to flock together. Yeah, And I think it's important to be able to connect with the people you're sharing that kind of content with. I mean, that's I feel like that's the point of it, right, Why else are you putting?

There should be no other motivation in my opinion, to put out paranormal content and present it as real and authentic, if not to connect with other people and share experiences that can validate your own right. I mean you can I can only imagine how isolating it would be if I was the only person to ever experience that thing, or you were the only person and you have no one to talk to about it, no one to show, like, not one person on this planet of eight billion people will believe you or take you serious or think what you're doing is real. That's so isolating that would that would destroy anybody's mental health. They would feel insane. So to be able to validate that and connect with people and share those experiences and come together because of that, you know, I've, like you said, I've met some of my greatest friends through this, lifelong friends that, like I would have never met otherwise because of this.

So I think it's important to present it genuine and honestly and not you know, just throw a bunch of money at it and a production team and just make it entertaining so you can cash in on it. This is I don't know. I feel like it's it should be taken more seriously than people take it, Like it's not just entertainment. It shouldn't be just entertainment. But those shows don't help, And that's kind of the sad thing.

They don't because like I watched, I have watched that entire Kesha show, the run that she did that first season, probably on Discovery Plus, and I couldn't wrap my head around if she's being genuine or not. I'm sure she genuinely believes in the paranormal and the supernatural, but the show as it's presented, I can't tell if like laugh at all the weirdo's looking for ghost type thing, because like, like it's easy to laugh at people that are asking the bigger questions because their eyes are filled with wonder and they're looking up at the stars. Like I get it. We make ourselves easy targets, but like the point is to make it not that more the case by talking about how you have sex with a ghost and stuff like that, Like you're you're just you know what I mean though, Like you get it, You get it though, Like I'm not trying to kink shame or throw shade at somebody, but like that's not helping the bigger conversation here, which is what you're trying to move the needle on, which is what I'm trying to move the needle on, which is so many people are trying to move the needle on having a genuine conversation about this without someone going why had sex with the ghosts?

And it's like, Okay, cool, I'm sure you did. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, like all right, let's more views than half the community combined, right, And it's like that sensationalism is what people want because the actual investigations are not going to say pedestrian, but like there's a lot of waiting and there's a lot of watching and there's a lot, a whole lot of nothing in between the things happening. Yeah, that's just the true. Yeah, right, fishing man, Sometimes you go into these places and cast your line and you get a bite two minutes later.

Sometimes you cast it and you're sitting there all day, you get this little tiny tuna nothing. Don't you want to show people? That? Isn't that what you want? That's what people are like, Why why are you always like what?

You'll show you that? But like you're gonna be bored out of your mind, right, But that's that's where That's where I feel like the combination of the cinematics plus the pov found footage helps because eventually you learn, you get your own style with editing, and you start to figure out different tricks and like how to pace a story and when to put music and where to put this and that, and it becomes this art piece sort of, you know, like you said, a movie. And I think if more paranormal investigators, if any of them are listening to this and starting a YouTube channel or you know, they're in the process of growing one right now, present it in a way that you can still get people's attention, but be genuine about what you're presenting.

There's nothing wrong with showing real paranormal investigating. That's okay, even if you're just sitting in a dark room with one ir camera facing you for ten minutes before anything happens. That's fine, you can still do that, but present it. Get the initial presentation down to where you can get anyone's attention that watches it, not just ghost hunting people, film people, photographers, you know, musicians, artists like people who want to be entertained, exciting, captivating, like you want to you want to present it to a wide audience. Maybe when they get through the initial trailer or teaser or whatever and then they see what it is, they're like, oh, they click away, they realize it's not what they wanted to watch, or they might stay because now it's like whoa, what is that?

This is a ghost hunt? What? And you can present it genuinely, just be honest about what you're presenting, But you want to entertain people too. So that's that's what I mean by saying, like splitting it between entertainment and genuine paranormal investigating. Don't occasionally fake stuff and then mostly do real or mostly fake, and then real or mix the two.

Entertaining like cinematic b roll, good music, cutting, cutting to the music, like making all everything makes sense in the first two to three minutes to where people are hooked and they're in the story that's entertaining, which I really appreciate that you do that. That's so fucking smart. Though I was nervous about doing that initially in the beginning, because again I didn't want to present myself as somebody who was sensationalizing the content. I think just presenting it in a good, healthy combination of like good captivating entertainment plus combined with real or at least what you feel to be real, genuine evidence, and not presenting it in a way that's sensationalized or hyped up. I think, over time, if more people kind of follow suit with that and not hang on one extreme end or the other, meaning like strictly entertainment or strictly just like uncut footage with like no edits or no passion in the in the creation.

The more people do this, the more it will become a standard I feel like, and then that will that will like set the new bar for how this content is both created and consumed because people will see this, like, you know, the first two three minutes of captivating footage, B role, cinematics, music, and then the like get to the actual investigation or the actual history portion where the person presenting the evidence is doing like a headcam of talking about the place and what happened and paranormal experiences, and then it just you get this new standard for how the content is presented. And I feel like that would get more people on board over time, because you see all these people trying to be honest and present things in a way that will leave your mind open and leave you with your own you know, you have a process of making your own decisions, like I'm not here to convince you that this is real, this is what I found, this is what I think, what do you think?

And that will become a new standard, and then the stuff will, hopefully eventually as generations go on, become more and more normalized. I mean, there's always gonna be somebody out there that doesn't believe. There's always gonna be somebody out there that doubts, like it's you know, there's just this yeah, you know, it's just n and yang. Like you can't convince everybody, But I think it will just really shift how outsiders look at this stuff. And in the same sense that I don't know it is probably a terrible example, but the same way that outsiders look at sports like we don't.

I don't feel like people are at large extremely hypercritical as an outsider of sports, sure, like I don't watch football, but I'm not like I'm not going to list a hundred reasons or even a dozen reasons why I hate football or don't like football or it's stupid or I can't believe people believe in watching this. Like I feel like a lot of outsiders that aren't heavy into the paranormal or have never had a paranormal experience and kind of look at it that way just because of the material that these bigger people present it as like they see an ad on travel channel for one of these super popular shows and they're like, oh, here we go another one of these, and it just it kind of sets this standard for like we don't know if the entertaining ones are faking it or like, do we really have to sit here and watch four hours of uncut, one angled ir camera of this guy talking in a dark, dank room, right balance it make it entertaining and captivating, but be honest and find a way to mix the two and change how this stuff is presented to people.

Why can't it be entertaining and real? Why does it have to be one or the other just does it. It never made sense to me. And I look at like, I don't consume a lot of content because I don't like I don't like having a ton of external influence. Like I consume my friends content, people that I'm interested in.

I don't not consume it, but I don't consume too much of it, Like I'm not actively out seeking it out. If I should across it, I'm like, huh, what's this? And then I, you know, if I'm interested cool, just the same way that everybody else does it. But I feel like, like these bigger creators and just anybody in the paradormal that has any semblance of like a name or can be recognized to some extent, Like people are looking up to you and they're they're getting their inspiration and influence from what you're doing. And if you're you know, five ten, fifteen million subs on YouTube, on TV or whatever, you're not presenting genuine content or it's like, oh, I have to do this to get here, right, that's what people we're gonna follow.

And that's the bigger problem, right, It's the I perceive I have to do X to get why and it's like, well, you don't have to do right, yeah, yeah, well, And I mean it's like with podcast creation, right, like there is this trend now it's like, all right, so I want to do a podcast about the office. Let's just go get somebody from the office. They'll do it. And it's like, I don't know if you've listened to some of those shows, but a lot of them there are some that are good. And I'm not going to say the ones that are good or bad because I don't care what anybody thinks either way, and I'm not going to give my opinion because I don't listen to those shows to be entertained.

I only listen to those shows to hear the level at which the people who were involved in the show are having a discourse about the thing that they are being asked to talk about. Nine times out of ten, they're just they couldn't be fucking bothered. They're there for the month. It's like the same thing we're talking about now. It's like, what is the purpose of making the content?

Is it to entertain? Is it to inform? Or is it to fill your pocket? And it feels more like a filling of the pocket, less of an entertaining or a convincing and it's the same thing here. People have less than altruistic intentions.

Yeah, but this stuff is less than like what did you think about that episode of the Office, It's like, what do you think about life after death? Like this? And that's why it's always like it's obviously the people that are attracted to this are attracted to it in such a fervent fashion because it is a shared come and human experience. But that is also why the people that take advantage of this are so attracted to it, because people are vulnerable when they're talking about something that is this serious and important to them, and their shields are immediately down. You know.

It's I don't want to say that, like I'm not aware of that or I don't think that happens. I think it's crazy that I've never really thought of it that way, just because of the way that I've always intended to present the stuff to people. So like that hearing that come out of somebody else's mouth and like really thinking about that for a second, Yeah, that would make a lot of sense, because I, like I was very vulnerable when it happened to me, and I needed to make sense of what happened, and I didn't know where to go or who to turn to, and like for the first year, I just consumed the total opposite content that I should have been consuming before I realized, like, this is not it, this is not real.

They're not doing this for genuine connection and like validating people's experiences. They're just trying to get money. They just want money, and they're they're exploiting vulnerable people because I was that vulnerable person at one point too. And then I realized, like as time went on and I started having my own experiences with it and getting out in the field and actually investigating more and more and more, I realized what a lot of this stuff is. And it's like it's not what is currently being presented, you know, in mass like at eighty percent almost of all major stuff that is available.

If you look at anybody with large numbers or large reach, it's not genuine or it's just too entertaining. I mean, I'm not going to specifics, but it's like, yeah, it's too good, Like it's there's you're doing something that isn't genuine. You're not presenting this in a genuine way, and that I don't know that kind of stressed me out because it's like who who is being honest about this and who isn't? Like you can't it's almost hard to tell sometimes because it's some of it is presented in a way that it's like, damn, this is real, And then you've fought down some rabbit hole and realize this person has been debunked like ten times, and you're like, oh, fuck, right now, I wanted to be real anymore.

And then it just like it kind of sets that standard for everything that you come across afterwards. It's like you believed in that person so much and then you find out that it wasn't totally honest, and now everyone that you come across now either going to have a bad taste in your mouth or you're just going to assume the worst until you like spend a bunch of time on what they're presenting and then make a decision. Then, like, it's hard to get people out of that mental state once you've deceived them once about this, right, It's very hard to convince people once you've lied about it, Like you could be honest a thousand times with this stuff, and then you lie about it once and that thousand times that you were honest means absolutely nothing when it comes to people in the paranormal because of how I feel the serious of a topic it is.

It's a serious topic, like what the hell happens to is when we die? I want answers, like I want to feel comfortable knowing that what I'm doing is worth it, and then that when I die, it's not just going to be black and I'm just gonna stop existing, Like I want to be comfortable with this this transition into the next chapter, and then you've got you know, person a or person be over here like screaming and slamming doors, and it just it invalidates that that experience or that that discussion well and one, and what it also does is it makes it harder for someone like yourself or myself to have a serious version of the conversation because everybody's perception is just you know, screaming at the ghost, come and hit me, scratch me, so calm?

Why are they so quiet? And it's like, because that's how you that's that's how the stuff is done, that's how we're totally to do it. This is how you're supposed to actually ghost on and not cuss them out and scream at them and tell them what to do and treat them like circus animals. Because if this is how this stuff works, you're going to be over there one day and they're going to remember all that shit you said and did. Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna deal with it somehow, in some way.

They'll put you in that room and want you to be the one responding, all right, Or your punishment friend thousand years, is to go and be the ghost who has to respond to people exactly. Or you know, maybe that God forbid anything happens to you that's like painful or a terrible experience before you lose your life. Like what if you get stuck somewhere right, and like what if you're trying to reach out to the people that are coming through to communicate with you or see if there's something there and they're not taking what your existence seriously? Then it's just like what what what happens? Then?

What happens to you? What do you do from there? And I don't know, Like I just I think people need to be more open and respectful to how they present this stuff authentically because you're you're you're gonna be over there one day maybe not maybe, but you're going to deal with something after this right with the right way, like don't go exploit bitcoin or something not good but not not paranormal. Like I don't know. I just wish people would would change how they view the stuff and like how like what their motivation behind creating this kind of content is.

And again like I'm I'm not like personally affected by it. It just sucks to see that some of the motivations are negative. You know, like if if that's what you want to do, cool do it. I'm not saying that everybody ever night you should just one percent start making charm city paranormal style videos, not saying that at all. Please please don't please don't.

Yeah, please don't. I need it. I like what I do, um, but I think that the motivation behind it just needs to be a little different and just stop to stop with the entertainment. Yeah. Well, and I think ultimately with something like you know, we talked about this like idea of to be entertaining and to lose the entertainment and to feel like well, to be interesting.

Like you said, there's so much of what the term entertaining is. I feel like is nebulous, because again, there are plenty of people that find some things entertaining and some things boring and like again, but like to agree baseline on what entertaining is. I think you're you're completely right, and man, it hurts the rest of us to have people like that in the industry, but it does allow us to go, see, that's what we're not trying to do. Like at least it can also serve as kind of an interesting counterpoint because you can yourself. I mean obviously with your YouTube channel.

No watch my YouTube channel. You can see what I'm doing clear as day, and it's like you don't even I mean, like, yes, you have to explain it. But it like, your stuff is so stylistically interesting and diverse from good old you know, other mainstreamers stuff. It's it should be apparent to viewers of your stuff, the quality and the care that's being put into it, because yeah, it's not. That's just not happening most of the time anymore anywhere for the most part, with this kind of stuff, at least the big stuff is just like all samey, which is different people.

I mean, the honesty is definitely there, it's just unfortunately you know a lot of them don't. They don't get the recognition that they deserve with it. Like I can. I can think of five people right now that are crushing it both with either presenting content, whether that be through video or audio or you know, short form content, writing, whatever the case may be. And they're incredibly talented people that deserve to have a platform and deserve to you know, get their message of life after death or what how they interpret it out there.

It's just people either aren't looking for it, or the people that are creating it don't put themselves out there enough. They don't go the extra mile to I guess, expose themselves to the world in the sense that like you could be shot down for what you're doing. You know, you can get a ton of backlash, and people are super afraid of that, and you can't be like you just you'll you'll find your people either way. You know, there's a lot of people walking around and people can be hateful and critical and rude, but they can also be very kind and accepting and understand ending and that's what you want to look for. You don't want to focus so much on the negative side of what may or may not happen.

If you're creating content, just focus on why you're doing it and why it makes you happy, and be honest and genuine, and you will attract enough people that will build a community, and then it'll spread out from there, and then it just really starts to become like word of mouth, because like it will keep your name will keep coming up. And I think that like doing that and doing it with that intention will sort of spread throughout the content creator community over time, at least with the paranormal stuff, because let's be real, everybody's trying to make ghost hunting videos and podcasts and blogs and things like that. But it's it's a small community, like it really is. If you look at the people creating content consistently between all of us, you me, Josh, everybody, it's it's relatively small.

It's not that big. It's just a lot of people consume the content, right. The ratio of creation to consumption is like wild, oh yeah, which is why so many of us have to put out so much content all the time. Which is why you're which is why you're surprised that people in your community aren't all over you for not But that's a good thing. Well, Yeah, I just I always assumed, like bigger numbers, it's like, oh, pressure got to get this you.

Yeah, It's like a week goes by and I'm like, oh, no, I don't have this video out. No, nobody's upset about and I'm like, oh okay, and I'd like yeah, but I just always assume like bigger numbers is always like added pressure. So it's nice to for it to not be right. I mean again, like that also means I think you've cultivated a community of like minded people similar to yourself because you wouldn't treat a content creator that way. No.

I wouldn't treat anybody that way, but especially content creators. Like it's easy to treat people on the internet that way. They're nameless. You know. I'm nameless and faceless and you're not.

So you know that's the way it works, right, I mean, I get it. I don't bully people on the internet, but I understand the No, I know, I understand the conceit of bullying someone on the internet. Yeah, you gotta have thick skin with this stuff too. Yeah, just look at comments you're like cool, Yeah, cool. I put myself out there and I deserve it.

I guess, but you don't care like somebody's gonna have something to say. But just keep on keeping on, do what you do, and do it honestly, like there's don't don't let the influence of money and power and recognition influence what you do in the space because it's it's a very sensitive topic and people, I think everybody to some extent should look into it, even just a little bit, even if it's just a glimpse. Just look into your own mortality and the frailty of your existence and why life after death fascinates you, even if it's just a subconscious thing. I mean, if it's something that occasionally it'll linger in the back of our minds and occasionally come forward, then we have that little moment of existential dread.

Everybody's experienced at some point. We call them quarter life in mid life crisis. But just respect it for what it is and don't like I just don't think people should have ne various intentions with it because it's such a sensitive topic. Well and for the rest of us who are who are being genuine, it doesn't feel good when we get lumped in and we get associated with and we have to fight and claw and bite to make sure we're not lumped in because it's easy to just go all of them and it's like, no, I'll do it, No, not all of us. So so so, Mike, where could people find charm City Paranormal on the internet?

Where where people going to go to find all the content that we just spent the last hour and aft talking about you make um you can go to charm City Paranormal dot com that has all of my links on one page. On YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok everything, all the all the all the all the places you would be finding content right now on the internet essentially pretty much more or less. As for me, you can find me at weird Ingway Media dot com, which is the podcast network that we've created to house all the things that we work on, me being all the other people that aren't well me doing podcasting. As for this show, Scary Stories we tell dot com Scary Stories WT on all social media. As for the show, big thanks as always to maggoty Odd and Dustin Rutledge for the album artwork, and to Alex malnaka Blondo for the music.

And biggest things of all to you, Mike, because you took time out of your busy schedules and to sit down and join me. And it's been four months, so we must be busy. We all are so busy, yeah, man, And thank you for having me. It's always been talking to you man. Likewise, Likewise, my friend and I, you know, next time, next time we chat, I'm sure we'll be you know, who knows farther down the road and making more crazy, wild and genuine content.

So I'm looking forward to it likewise, and we'll, as always let our good friend, the former host of Tim or the former host of Tim, the former host of Sightings, mister Tim White, lead us out. No mystery is closed to an open mind.