Tusk

We're waiting. Does the joke Nazi Party play in twenty twenty three? This this feels like a more a more pedestrian time that this film came out in twenty fourteen, two years for twenty sixteen. Not that anything happened in twenty sixteen that would make anyone in this podcast episode say anything about Nazis, but let's just say something in twenty sixteen did happen. This joke doesn't play at all anymore.

It definitely plays differently because I was like, what, what what did they just say? Oh, they're saying Nazi. They're saying a tug and cheek though, right, and it's more of a it's a different joke than some nine years ago than it is now, and you have to remember that kind of stuff and some nine years ago he says, holy shit, man. Yeah. On this episode of the Culture Cast, I am still your host, Chris dash You, much to the chagrin of many.

I am joined by my good friend all the way from Wake Up Heavy Recollections of Horror. He's your friend and mine. He also hosts another show called Cambridge and was sewn on the weirding Way Media Network, which you should totally check out. Because if you're into pop culture, toys and weird shit from the eighties, this man is going to be You're cherpa up the mountain of eighties pop culture. He's your friend of mine, Mark Begley, I don't want to die in Canada.

I was hoping that was going to be the one that you said, I really was. Another great line from this movie, is man truly a walrus at heart? Is the is the line that always cracks me up because it's a question no one's been asking in the history of man, but I guess Michael Parks has been. Oh now, AKA, what's the other name? Follow you?

Mousie, Mousier, Mousier. Oh my god. So on this episode of the Culture Cast, we're gonna be taking a look at Well. It's a movie that we actually covered almost ten years ago. We covered this film December eighth, twenty fourteen.

Mister Begley, the last time Tusk was covered on this show was eight episodes in. It was the eighth episode. We're a five. Yeah, we're five hundred and seventy two. Now, if I, if I, if I can, if I can offer up some information, don't go and search that episode out, not because it's embarrassing.

But what you want to listen to the eighth thing you did after doing something for a decade. No, so, so that's why we're here. We're gonna be talking about a little movie from twenty fourteen that well supposedly maybe Kevin Smith says it's coming and we'll we'll see. We talked about it on our Red State episode, which you can find over at Weirdingwaymedia dot com. We're gonna be talking about twenty fourteen's Man Walrus movie Tusk.

Always do sober what you do drunk. I'm gonna teach you to keep your marsha, Hemingway said dot com. Yes he did, and he said it to me. I don't want you to go to Canada for the podcast. It's what I do.

I travel around and I interview weird or interesting people, So look at you, crazy Canucks. Wandering Wallace takes a raunchy road trip up to the Great North. Hello. I'm an old man who has enjoyed a long and storied life at sea, and after eons of oceanic adventure, I know I do not wish to spend my remaining years alone while I have such stories to share how far ust buy for us? From here?

Let's boot two hours from here to boot two hours away? Hate American guys. Good evening, It's nice to meet you. Could I interest you in some tea? So what happened after the boat sank?

I was alone? I'm done something very swift and frightening moving by me. The Walrace saved your life. The Walrace is far more evolved than any man I've heard of present company, including thank you, You're welcome? Would they're there?

And be all right? Mister? He hasn't called me three days. I'm worried. Why are you doing this?

Are you really mourning your humanity? I don't understand. Oh and the hell I want to be a human? Oh hardy. I'm so scared this guy wants to turn me into an animal or something.

And don't want to die in Canada. So it's written and directed by Kevin Smith. And this is my favorite thing to say, based on a podcast episode which is been such a croc of shit and based on actual events to quote quote quote right quote well, and we'll get to the actual inspiration for what this is. But the film stars Michael Parks, Justin Long Hayley, Joel osmet who and two times now. The only other time I talked about him was with you, so oh yeah yeah, and Genesis Rodriguez as well.

And there's another person in this movie, but we'll leave to that, just like the movie. We'll get to it when we get to it, and it may derail this podcast, possibly like it derails the movie. You know, I realized thinking about the first time, this is only the second time I've watched this film. So the first time I saw it in the theaters with my finn Ronnie, who is the co host of Camber Jema Sean that you mentioned earlier, and we would get together and watch movies on Friday afternoons, and every once in a while we would actually go and see a movie that we were interested in when it opened. This was one of those things.

He had cajoled me into watching Red State, either with him or by myself, I can't remember. Like I mentioned on that episode, it was going to come here to Fresno, figured might as well go see it sounded interesting. Intrigued by the fact that Kevin Smith was going away from the Clerks multiverse, if you want to call it that. I'm not well versed to skin letters I believe. Okay, it very nice, dude.

When the shots of Justin Long and Haley Joel Osmond come up doing their podcast, I was like, you know what, I haven't seen Hgo Hjo in a movie since Artificial Intelligence. I realized that as I was sitting there watching it, and I was like, Oh, it's so nice to see him back in movies. I believe he did a lot of voice work in between. He was in some films. I had to satisfy my curiosity to see if that was even true today, and yeah, it probably was.

Since AI, which was two thousand and one, which I also saw in the theater, I don't think I had seen him in anything, and I was really happy to see him. So that was my story about Haley Joel Osman. So what is Haley Joel Osman Justin Long doing? Well, they're doing what we're doing. They're podcasters, but they have a podcast, but a really well in twenty twenty three.

It's an unfortunate name, the Not Sea Party, not Nazis, but not seeing as if they can't see, and they show each other videos from YouTube and laugh at them, and then I guess they go and talk to the people as well, it's kind of a little unclear maybe, but well, good old Justin Long finds a video on the Internet where a kid cuts his leg off by accident, and this is all taking place in Manitoba, so wouldn't you know it? He heads on up to Manitoba, Canada to meet the kill Bill Kid, which is yes, a more or less thinly veiled rip off of the Star Wars Kid, but obviously kid cuts his leg off with a katana. Star Wars Kids very much still alive, also never had a real lightsaber. And he gets up there and the Star Wars Kid kill Bill Kid is dead.

He goes to a bar and finds a listing on the star wall for Michael Parks's stories that he has to tell someone, and Justin Long is that person, and he goes to Pippie Hill, Michael Parks's home, for what can only be described as a nightmare of a different pinniped variety. One might say it's a if you're a grossed out by body horror, you're probably not the target audience for this movie. But at the same time, I would say if you're grossed out by body horror, you might be the target audience through this movie because it's a body horror movie in name only. It's a horror movie in only even one might even say, but Bagley, before I kind of bury the lead here, you kind of got it out of the way at the top here when you saw this the last time.

But I want to know what you thought watching it this time. Well, I enjoyed it. I can't say I didn't enjoy it the first time I watched it. I was perplexed by it, and I believe Ryan and I went and had lunch afterward and were like, what the fuck did we just watch? I mean, that's a valid response to the movie, I think in general, Like I just in general, right, I knew the premise.

It's sort of hard not to figure it out. And plus, although I wasn't on Twitter at the time, I think everybody knows the premise of this, or his fans at least know what's going to happen in this movie before they even go see it because of that episode of his podcast. They tell the whole story, and it's based off of a real thing. A guy in a gum tree ad was real thing quote thing, A guy over on like the British like Craigslist was looking for someone to come and live with him free of charge if they dressed as a Walrus and Kevin right and Kevin Smith and Scott Moser, Scott Moser the beautiful Man, which is which is a comes from in the movie? That's what I figured they Yeah, and the episode two fifty nine of Smodcast, which two fifty nine in twenty fourteen, folks, which yeah, fucking crazy right.

An episode two fifty nine of the Smodcast, aptly titled The Walrus and the Carpenter, Kevin Smith and Scott Moosier spent the entire episode talking on and on and on and on about this ad and they essentially, like you said, yeah, right, the movie more or less, and then at the end of the movie, it's Tusk yes or Tusk no, Walras yes, Walters now is what excuse me? Walter? Yeah, Walras yes, Walras no. And obviously, like we mentioned in the Red State episode, which you should totally listen to before this episode, because we talked a little bit about the Kevin Smith creative process in that episode, Kevin Smith literally makes this movie because of that, because of the Twitter response. Look, he was gonna make the movie anyways, I mean Twitter didn't change anything and more or less just reaffirmed to him that he was making it.

But he was making this movie, and you know what, God bless him. Yeah, so you know the story going in. I knew the basic story, but it zigged when I thought it was gonna zag. It played out a lot differently than I imagined in my head. So I was a little which isn't the movie's fault, but there is a point.

So anyway, I enjoyed it much more today. I was like, Oh, this is actually really well done. Everybody's really good in this. I'm enjoying the dialogue justin long after just watching rewatching Barbarian, he plays this self entitled white guy prick perfectly. I mean, it's the same character in both movies.

Basically, he's a little maybe a little worse, maybe a little worse in Barbarian. Well he I mean he you know, I won't spoil that movie, but he's accused of some awful shit in that and but this guy's like one step away from being accused every stuff right, right right, Everybody is there, everybody in the world is there to serve him. Playing both of these films, In both films, that is his character and he does it really well and I like him, and I think I mentioned to you probably off podcast. I used to watch the show Ed and he was on there, and that's where I first learned about him. And I have enjoyed most things that I have seen or I have enjoyed him and pretty much everything I've seen him in since that show, and he was great and ed.

But yeah, I enjoyed it way more this time around up and two a certain point when a new character is introduced, and then that I think is what really threw me the first time I watched it. Knew it was coming this time, but it still throws me off. I think it hurts the tone of the film and doesn't completely work, but it doesn't totally derail the film for me. I enjoyed it more this time and really really liked the first two acts of the film. So I just want to ask, it would have been better if it had been Benoa Blanc and not Gui la plant?

Is that where yourself? Because because that's what I think of now when I think of this performance in this movie and something like what Daniel Craig is doing, it's the same level of bullshit. It's a level of bullshit that only certain actors can get away with, because the expectation is this is such a complete one eighty from who you even bass are, because Johnny Depp is in this movie as a French Canadian and he is nowhere remotely French Canadian any more than Daniel Craig is remotely Southern. But Ben wat Blanc, I guess everybody is okay with it because it's a serious movie with this more serious tone. I agree Johnny Depp almost sinks this movie, but I don't know.

It's still kind of works for me, and I can't put my finger on why. Necessarily. Maybe I give this movie a little bit of a pass. That might be why. But at the same time, I don't think it's annoying.

It's strange. It's strange with a capital s. I it's and I can't even really say it's a shift in tone. Although the stuff with the Walrus, the stuff between Michael Parks and Justin Long is played straight. There are funny moments, but it's it's dark.

It's dark, and guille la plant is anything but dark. If you can have a weird character with an edge and there's like no edge to his character. It's it's it's a goofy noess that isn't really represented in the rest of the films as far as I'm concerned. Would it have been better if it hadn't been Johnny depth or is it just the way the character's written. I think it well written or improved.

From what I've heard. He improvised most of his lines, so I think we can lay the blame mostly on him. Well, I mean, there's some of it that's clearly not improv like he had to get to certain things. I think. I think the things that work are the things that are clearly written, things like him talking about, you know, finding the bodies and stuff, and like going and hunting down a serial killer, like him being a detective.

I think is interesting when he kind of, yeah, when he's clearly going off script, it's easy to tell because it kind of it feels like a fish like this, like out of the water. It feels like it's kind of floundering a little bit, and you know, on this watch through it is something that reminded me of a movie that would come out two years later, the Pulfigy ghost Busters movie, where it's like, just because someone is doing something and you think it's funny doesn't mean it's not too much for everybody. And I think, yeah, like the Johnny Depp stuff about this movie like kind of overtakes the movie in a lot of ways, Like the outside visibility of this movie is elevated because Johnny Depp is in it in a way that Yoga Hosers never got, which is weird because he's like in Yoga Hosers compared to this movie where he's just like there.

In Yogo Hosers, he's like a character that shows up and is ever present throughout the entire film more or less well, and that may not have worked because people were put off by it in this movie, Like I really want to watch a whole movie about that guy. Well, honestly, he works better and he works better in Yoga Hosers because that movie's tone is right weird and like that, Okay, that movie is actually no, I'm that movie has some problems, but I would actually say Yogosers ain't that bad. It has some great actors in it, including Austin Butler in a very like interesting performance that in a lot of ways the movie doesn't deserve. But for me, like the whole Johnny Depp. Thing in this movie works better in the other movie, but that's because that movie's tone is more like this movie's tone is so dark outside of him, right, But it's weird because it doesn't necessarily need to be.

And I feel like it's never earned, like it's trying to earn a dark tone that it never really like. Lands, I guess is even a better way of putting it. Well, I think all of this stuff in the house is dark and works really well, and that I think is what I enjoyed even more this time. The interaction between Justin Long and Michael Parks plays out really well, and again you kind of know what's going on. This guy's gone to a stranger's house and is immediately given something to drink.

You know that that drink is going to be drugged, and it plays out, you know, and of course he's telling these interesting stories that have Justin Long entranced and I just like how that plays out, and you know what's going to happen, but it's it seems to be taking a very long time for this thing that as an audience member, you know is going to happen. And then it finally starts to happen, but it doesn't. It's not immediate, so we're still you know, telling stories, and Justin Long is still intrigued. Wallace is his character's name, is still intrigued by him and really doesn't figure it out until he's until he passes out. I mean, he makes the realization and then he's immediately out and then it's like you know, interrupted by a flashback or a memory.

But you know, the very next thing is he's already lost a leg, he's already incapacitated. Shit's already happening to him. And that I think surprised me the first time, and this time that, oh shit, it's getting real. Like already we're good ways into the movie, but they haven't had much of an interaction yet, and this thing that's going to happen has started. It's an hour and forty minutes.

It's got a pretty breezy pace, like and what's funny is I think, you know, now, if this movie were made with twenty twenty three sensibilities, it would be two and a half hours long like that. Well, and I'm not saying that to be kind of like dismissive or anything, but in a lot of ways, like there's a lot more movie here to be told, and and it's and well like and I'm not saying that, and in like Kevin Smith leaves things on the floor. He just he kind of opens the world up in some interesting directions and then just kind of like lets you as the audience sit with it. He doesn't explore it. And in Yoga Hosers he kind of does a little bit kind of backtrack on what's going on in this movie.

And it's it's actually really funny because in Yoga Hosers, Tusk plays into two cameos in that movie, one of Jason Muse and then gut Gila Plant is in that movie. But um, there's a they mentioned the the walrus. They call him the manatee. He's known as the manatee, not the walrus. And the two girls, the colleens as they're called the Yoga Hosers are like, well it was it was a walrus.

It wasn't even a manatee. They weren't even reporting correctly. And then Gui La Plant has written a book and it's about like his like solving of the entire case. But yeah, right, so I mean it shows back up. But like in this movie, he just has, like I don't know, Kevin Smith crafted a connected universe between his movies before Marvel did, like, and it's kind of weird to think about that.

You mentioned his like universe of movies, but they are connected. I don't think these are connected to anything. They're connected to yoga hosers. But I like that in this world right that wasn't yet to be finished. Yeah, but I like that in this movie there's hints at a larger kind of world than other things going on, and you see these kind of flashbacks of it.

But I don't know. I think the sensibilities Kevin Smith has as a comedy director suit him well in Horror obviously, and that can't always be said for every comedy director. Yeah, I just there seems to be a disparity and the guy Laplant character versus the rest of the movie, because even when he's talking, So when when I forget Haley Joel Osmond's character, Terry, Terry and aliok up Teddy. Teddy and Ali hook up with him and they're eating at that restaurant that little sliders the restaurant like they're they're deadly serious. I mean, this is a serious thing that's happening to their friend although they're sleeping with each other as well that he's a complete asshole.

So I kind of understand that their expressions, their responses, every their mannerisms, everything about them is deadly serious and Johnny Depp's just kind of riffen, and it's like it just doesn't quite work. I don't want to go on about this forever, but that is the one thing in the movie that stands out to me. And I don't mind tonal shifts in films, when something goes from dark too ridiculous or things like that, it's just a different kind of goofy. You could call the whole movie goofy. But the stuff with Justin Long and Michael parks Man is some dark shit, is some weird, fucked up shit, especially when the layers start becoming revealed that this is ongoing.

He has dismembered, cut up, skinned multiple people. You've got faces on the skin that he's applying to Justin Long to turn them into a walrus. There is a decomposing walrus already in the pool that he has for him. You know, it's some fucked up shit. Like I said, it hints at a bigger world of things having happened like it's and it's told through like lines of dialogue.

That's it. He plays into that because he's been hunting this guy and met that. I do like that scene between the two of them. That scene is actually mcfio. It's fucking insane that, Like whatever Michael Parks is doing in that scene is I think he's supposed to be slow.

I think it's what he's like, he's intending to be a man child like like Gilapont calls him, you know, right, But like it's it's it's so convincing, like you forget that he's this monster for like two minutes. But it's also insane to see Johnny Depp and Michael Park sharing the same space as those two characters. It is pretty fun. I did appreciate the humor in that scene a lot, but it has a dark edge to it because you're, you know, this guy is killing people, right And like he says later on as he comes back out of flashback, the dude that I was looking for was most likely in his house while I was standing right there, right right. So that's a dark that's a dark thought.

Yeah, makes me think of a girl with a dragon tattoo. I believe that the aerial killer at the end of that movie says the same thing to the lead character. He's like, when you were in my house, there was like a chick locked up in the basement, Like it has that like and that's the thing Like this, it's almost like in a lot of ways, it feels like a satire of these kinds of movies because it's, oh, I'm kidnapping you and instead of you know, doing like a Leonard Lake Charles ing thing speaking of Californian and serial killers, where they like leave you locked up in a fucking bunker in their backyard, this guy's turning you into a walrus. Like it Like if that, if that premise doesn't make you chuckle, which it should, right, you're not the target audience for this movie, is kind of my response, Like if you're watching a movie about a guy turning someone into a walrus, thinking there's gonna be a serious movie, Like, I feel like the movie kind of doesn't help itself by trying to be serious.

But I also understand that to land a satire correctly, you have to really lean on the conventions of what you're satirizing, and in a lot of ways, Like this has the DNA of like Silence of the Lambs in it, you have a guy who's skinning people and using the skin to do something. And then at the end of the Yeah, and then at the end of the movie it takes place in this basement that's dark and kind of dank. Yeah, there's plenty of parallels to these other movies, but this movie feels like if it had been maybe not Kevin Smith, it would have been more of a satire. But I think Kevin Smith's unique brand of comedy maybe gets in the way. That's the Johnny Depth stuff, Like it's weird for weird sake, and you know what, like good for you that you lit a grenade and then you dropped it in front of you and it didn't kill you when it blew up, it just blew your legs off.

Like that's what it feels like. Like you still got away with the movie. But I feel like without the Johnny Depth stuff, more people would totally have enjoyed this movie and it might not have quote divided the fans and critics alike, because there's no way you either. There's no middle ground with this movie. I mean, we we're talking about people yesterday about this movie, and they were fucking bemoaning this movie's existence, which I again as someone who likes it, I totally get it, because there's no middle ground with a movie this bizarre, that makes these distinct choices with a capital see.

You know what was weird when I was watching it today after having watched Red State with Michael Parks as well, and I enjoy him in this more. I like his performance in this more. It's way more understated until he has moments of lunacy or I don't want to say anger, but he goes up to that level that he's almost constantly in in Red State. But I as I was watching it when he was telling the stories, the Hemmingway story and the even his life as an orphan, that whole again based on actual events. You know, these things happened in Canada apparently back in the thirties or something I think, or maybe earlier.

Anyway, Like who who is he reminding me of? Who am I seeing in this role other than him right now? And it was related to Red State? I could have I could see Stephen Root playing this character. And then when he did the scene with Johnny Depp on his porch where they're both they both had these ridiculous voices.

I'm like, that's like a Stephen Root bit that voice that he's doing, and I was like, it's Milton from fucking Office Space. Yeah, I'm like that would have been I mean, that could have been interesting because he plays that and he's not in it very much, but he has that dark turn and get out, you know where he's a very calm you know the way he talks, his mannerisms, his voice, and it's like, oh, I wonder if that was I'm sure this was for Michael Parks specifically more or less says so he's like, I just wanted to hear him read like the sailor like sailor stories, like all right and like and I know that he says that he wouldn't have made it if he didn't take the part, but I'm thinking, man, if he couldn't do it, it would have been interesting if he thought, you know what, maybe maybe Stephen Root can do this for me, because I think he could have.

I really heard that and saw that in Michael Park's performance. It's like Stephen Root could have done this. Yeah, I just I liked that Michael Parks has that like, like, I don't know, Stephen Root for Me has never had welcoming energy. But Michael Parks kind of does the Howard Howe in the Chair does. It's not as malicious obviously.

I mean the moment, the moment Wallace realizes the jig is up, when his leg is gone, is when Michael Parks like lets the facade more or less start to kind of drip and fade. And I mean those you know show me how the fish he swims like Jesus, that shit's terrifying. Like he's terrifying in this movie. He really is, like and like you said about Red State. In Red State, it's like dialed up to eleven and then they just tear the knob off and throw it away like he's never going to get an opportunity to go down.

In this movie, there's a little I mean, at the beginning more understated. It's much more understanding. Towards the end though, it kind of goes off the rails. But that's okay. I mean when fighting, well, you know, justin long like, but he's not over the top raised voice the whole time.

It's more it's yelling at our hero's face. At the end of the movie. It's when you hear somebody say crazy shit, but they're saying it in a calm voice, right that you really get scared. Someone yelling at you is a different kind of fear. But it's like if someone's relaying a story and then it gets really dark and their their tone hasn't changed, that's when you know you're in trouble.

And I love that moment when he stands up at the table when when Justin Long is refusing to eat and screaming and stuff, and then he gets up and he's like, oh shit, even that was a facade. Now I know I'm fucked because this guy can walk. I have no I've got no recourse. Now I'm one leged and I'm doped up to you know, the state of being and incapacitated, and this fucker can walk. I also really love how but he's maliciously polishing that goddamn bone in that scene, the scene where he wakes up for the first time.

And again, I mean, I don't know, did you did did you realize what was going on in that scene when you watched it the first time that he's polishing his own The dude's leg bone. Oh no, I thought it was I just thought it was a tusk. Yeah, So he's like polishing the leg bone of his like that he cut off I get you, yeah, which is like fuck fucking horrible. Like again, like it's those little touches in this movie that like I don't know. And and the scene where it's it's the shot of Michael Parks and he's working on Justin Long on the table and you don't see Justin Long until the very end of the scene.

He's so well done. Like wait, like Kevin Kevin Smith did that scene, Like that's that's a that's a scene. It's straight out of a horror playbook in a way that like it works so well that the reveal is earned, and you know what, the reveal is not as gross as it could have been. The reveal isn't as gross as it will be because they need you to be primed and ready for the reveal, which I think ends up working even though it does look it's not great. It's not great.

The first time I saw it, this movie, I loved it so much, and now when I watch it, it's like it makes me laugh more than anything else. It's so funny. Looking and like the logistics of it makes zero sense. Well, and I think just the material itself isn't really all that convincing. His skin, I think I know that he wanted Nicotero to do this Greg Nicotero, and Nicotero couldn't because of Walking Dead, so Kurtzman did it, who of course was Nicotero's old partner.

I think if Nicotero had been able to do the skin, it would have been a lot more convincing. It looks very rubbery and latexi and looks like a Halloween costume that I own. It's like a Halloween mask that I own. It's supposed to be like a serial killer mask, but it's like just like a piece of like a mask that's supposed to look like a human face that's been cut off. It looks just like it.

It looks so cheap and like like the thing with Johnny Depp in this movie is one thing. But the Walrus suit looks so hinky and like. And that for me, was not a complaint that I had, because you know, I didn't really mention at the top, you know my history with the movie other than the fact that I've done an episode on it before. But I really like this movie. And I've watched this movie plenty of times since this time for this episode, including when we talked about it in twenty fourteen, and I liked it a lot in twenty fourteen.

I wasn't a stoner then like I am now, and the older I've gone and the more of a kind of free spirit I've become, I enjoyed this movie a lot more because I think it's stupider than it really presents itself. It's just so dumb, Like the idea is just so moronic that only someone who's smoking grass could have come up with it, like to go like, oh, this will be a funny movie, and it is. It's made for Kevin Smith's haha audience that laugh at the stupid shit he comes up with. And in a lot of ways, I like laughing at this kind of stuff that he comes up with a lot more than I do his more conventional stuff now, Like I like how just weird and mad cap In's bizarre and off the wall. This is because again, like this is Red State, but Red State was like Pitch Black.

This movie is one shade up from that, because like Red State, I would say, is not very funny. But you could make the case that it's humorous, but it's really poking fun at two things. This movie's just kind of again fucking weird but black a black comedy because it's body horror movie like and Human Centipede is a black comedy too in a lot of ways, like I but you know, Human Centipedes actually gross, Like this movie is just if you look at Justin Long in the suit and you think anything other than this is just a weird thing that I'm looking at, not like, oh, this is so terrible. Is again like it would if if the effects had been done by someone with a deft or touch. I feel like that would have been the case.

But I just feel like, oh, this is such a weird thing I'm looking at. It's just it's one of the strangest pieces of practical effect I've ever seen. It's it's unique, even if it doesn't look convincing, you've never seen anything like it. And that's a double. That's a double of this movie.

Johnny Depp being a weirdo is one thing, But the second kind of knock against this movie or elevatory piece is the weirdness of what you end up getting when Justin Long is revealed in the wal Risk costume. Yeah, it's not great. I don't know though if maybe that's on purpose to keep it less dark than if it had been real, very realistic skin. Then they show the walrus in the water that's dead and it's like a skeleton, and shit, Like I like, they are amping up the stakes, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you mentioned body horror and humor, dark comedy, black comedy, and I think that's one thing that gets missed a lot when people talk about David Cronenberg, the king of body horror, the king of venereal horror, as I like to say, since the early films are you know, sex and death and transformation all wrapped together.

So the film movies, those fucking movies are funny Shivers, rabid Scanners. Maybe not as much, but there is a very very dry, dark humor running through those films. And it's not easy to pick up on because just in general, his films, especially the early ones, are and he gets accused of this a lot, devoid of emotion, very cold films. And but man, when I did that episode on Shivers, I was like, shit, man, this is this movie is fucking hysterical if you if you listen to things a little bit differently, if you listen to a lot of these lines that people are saying, I think this is supposed to be funny at least a David Cronenberg if no one else. And so that idea of this, It is ridiculous to want to turn somebody into a walrus.

The reason that he wants to turn somebody into a walrus is ridiculous. But it's told straight, which I really love. I love the idea of why. I mean he fell in love with the walrus. Basically he's boil walrus.

Yeah, he's bloviating like in all those scenes, he's just like going on and on and it's like you fell in love with a walrus, like because you were stranding on an island with it and probably fucked. It's blubber and shit, you know, I mean, come on, just own up to the own up to the real story here, guy. Yeah, Like that for me is blubber back, right, Like that's what cracks me up and in like and in a lot of ways, in a lot of ways, it's a it's it's like a it's like a weird I don't know if it's like amusing on it, but another kind of connection. And now that again we're in a post twenty twenty two world, this also could be Dahmer adjacent because again, like there's a weird like, there's a weird homosexuality thing going through the movie, because the Dumplicius orphan thing was about children that were being raped by the clergy, so like and yeah, liked, he wants to make his lover again.

And at one point in the movie, and I don't know if you picked up on this, and it always makes me wonder, there's a scene where he pushes his head underwater and it's in such a position where it looks like he's giving him head. Yeah right, okay, So yeah, and I believe Sam, it's so far between viewings of this movie for me, and I'm having these memories of that first time I watched it. So during that scene, I'm thinking, oh, I believe I thought that that's what was going on the first time I watched it. But it's really ambiguous here. Is he's toughening him up, or that's what he's saying he's doing, like getting him into fighting shape or or teaching him, you know, you've got to be a walrus, so you've got to be able to swim underwater and stuff.

But then they show him and he's buck naked. When he gets out of the pool, he's putting his tal on and he was like, oh, he was naked while he was doing this. Well, okay, well that's a different fucking story then. So that's why I thought that the first time I saw it and why I'm remembering that. I thought that the first time I saw it because the dude was completely naked in the pool and shoving his head down into his crotch.

Okay, so you picked up some still, Yeah, I mean it's there, But was that what was going on or not? You don't know? Again like that, And that's the thing, like Kevin Smith leaves enough open for you as an audience member, which is kind of surprising to me for him because I don't see him as a subtle filmmaker. And maybe that's just my own and I believe I brought that up in the Red State episode. I don't see him trading in subtlety a lot, and maybe that's just my own misreading of his work, although again I haven't seen most of his filmography.

Oh, I wanted to go back to the point about the him polishing his leg bone because I didn't pick up on it. And I still didn't pick up on it when the Guila Pont character is saying, you know, we found these the hockey player eventually, and he had holes in his face and no one could explain it. And then within that we found a little piece of his leg bone. Yeah, so that should have clued me. And again, like, oh, that's what I just didn't.

I'm watching that listening to what he's saying and going, oh, he's getting his tusk ready, that's all I thought of. But that makes perfect sense. I mean, it doesn't help that it's being delivered by one of cinema's strangest characters. So I mean again, like it's I think that's the other problem with that Johnny Depp scene to have circled back to this. But I think this is important, and this is maybe the biggest point of all.

Because it's Johnny Depp. You can't stop focusing on the fact that it's Johnny fucking Depp, and that gets in the way of that scene being good. Anyway, you cut it because it's Johnny Depp, And like this is twenty fourteen. That's the problem here, And like, that's the other problem now with this movie host last year where it was like all we heard about was I stepped on a bee and that weird amber heard Johnny Depp nonsense. That felt like it went on for an entire year.

We're in a post all of that universe in twenty fourteen. Johnny Depp was like the shit. In twenty fourteen, he had just come off of having let's see, one of the biggest franchises in the world, Pirates of the Caribbean, and then he also was in another one with The Fantastic Beast, was right on the horizon. He was right in the middle of a weird spot in his career. And so you know, before this year he does Loan Ranger, then he does Tusk.

The year after this, he's nominated for an Oscar for playing Whitey Boulger and Black Mass. Like that's the other thing. Like Johnny Depp, I think is a distraction in more ways than one, and it distracts from being able to appreciate the writing that Kevin Smith has done to build out the world that is move is taking place in because again, like it would be like if in Red State. I don't I'm trying to think of, like if in Red State, if that reveal were to happen in the chapel, because you could do that in Red State. That's like thirty forty minutes into the movie, like in Tusk, where there's this reveal of there's somebody in this movie that you don't know.

If that had happened in Red State and they had pulled back the cloth and there in the chapel where Michael Parks is speaking, but it had been I fucking know, some other big like fuck George Clooney or Brad Pitt or somebody, it would have gotten in the way there too, where you're just like, that's Brad Pitt or George Clooney, and like that's the problem here. I don't think regardless of what Johnny Depp is doing in this movie, it's kind of hard to divorce the fact that it's Johnny Depp twenty fourteen, Johnny Depp, who's still a big deal Johnny Depp. I kind of think we're not supposed to realize it's Johnny Depp. Though, Okay, I mean seriously, I remember, like, oh, you're going to be so surprised by this cameo.

It's like the Tom Cruise thing at the end of Tropic Thunder or not at the in I mean, he's in it throughout, but like that, this this is the closest compared to it. Actually, by the way, good point that makeup. That makeup makes him look unrecognizable and Tropic Thunder, you still get the voice or you know, and most likely for me, I didn't see it in the theater, so I had an inkling that there was a big name star in this, and it was pretty easy to tell who it was and what character they were playing. The same could be said for this, But I honestly think the point is it's not you're not supposed to really recognize that it's Johnny Depp. Now I'm not saying they pulled it off.

I know you're I know you're not. No, I'm not credited in the movie. He's guilt playing Gui La pont I know. Yeah. So again I'm not saying it's not completely obvious it's him, And anybody who saw the movie two seconds after it opened would have had it spoiled for them.

What Johnny Depp the goofy character, you know, no, one's going into this again. I'm sure there are people who went in and had no idea it was him. On the previous episode we did, I had a genuine reaction revealing that Johnny Depp was in this movie for really, what do you mean? Like we were talking about it. I was like, did you realize that Johnny Depp was in this movie?

And they were like what where? And I was like, gee, laplant. They were like, no fucking way. I re listened to the episode just so I could remind myself. But yeah, yeah, I see so right.

I just that's that feels insane to me. But again, like that's you know, trying to remove the hindsight that we never had, right. Uh. But I did want to mention the kind of the other thing about Michael Parks and you know, justin long and the whole the Walras suit thing of this movie. Uh, logistically, the wal resuit has still not does not make any sense to me because when Michael Parks like gets in it and then he like busts out of it.

I was justin long in it is there like stuff around him keeping like it's like that's and that feels like a p problem of the design by Kurtzman, not by Kevin Smith, Like I mean, Kevin Smith approves the design. I'm assuming again, Kevin Smith is an autour in a lot of ways. He gets what he wants, and he knows what he wants. But like it's it's it's like if I were making a Walrus suit, this is not what it would look like. It would look much more grotesque than this, much more grotesque than this, to the point where like you're like queasy as an audience member, because I want you to understand how fucking disgusting this person truly is.

Yeah, I think that was one of the big problems I had with at the first time, was the actual design of the suit and the and the creature, if we can call him that. I don't know if you want to dig into the ending just yet, but I have a real big issue with the ending of this that please say, logistically, that's all I want you. Well, yeah, well that relates to the whole idea of the film. And if you stay through the credits, you hear this portion of that podcast that the movie ends up you know, being based on. You hear them he and his podcast partner basically outlining the third act of the film in pretty basic detail.

But I have a big issue with and I had it in my head that this actually happened. I must have had an issue with it back then as well and decided to change it in my head, change the end of the movie in my head. But there is absolutely no way that that skin would still be on him a year later, huh. I know. It's it's so fucking stupid, Like, there's no way it would have lasted even in the amount of time that he was in the house, right, it would have been rotting off already, right, and it would have been in the water that whole time.

It would have completely rotted off. So that makes me think, you know, it's obviously skin from other people. It is not his skin he is, like you said in there, somehow all of that dead flesh would have wrought it off, probably would have given him horrible sepsis and died. But here's my issue with the end of the film. And I understand their explanation of it in that within that podcast episode where he has gone full Walrus, So that explains their ending of the movie.

He's gone full Walrus, which makes sense. He's been through this really traumatic experience he has fought to the death as a walrus. There's no going back he you know, his legs aren't going to get put back on, his tongue is not going to get put back in. But I'm pretty sure that they would have since they were there pretty quickly. They rescued him fairly quickly.

He would have been taken to a hospital. All that other flesh would have been removed. They probably could have removed the stitches and freed his arms to a certain extent where he would have a life outside of being in a walrus suit. Not to say that the idea that they have of him being in an institution and being full walrus doesn't completely work for the film. I think it's just too realistic to have them, instead of going to visit him in a quote unquote Zoo for Exotic Animals, that they're visiting him in an institution and he thinks he is a walrus and his body is still horribly disfigured from this.

You know, he's going to have holes in his face from the tests where the tests were, scars everywhere, no legs, disabled arms to some extent, and you can still have that sad ending where they throw him the fucking fish and he eats it off the ground. But he's not in a stupid looking, dumbass, unrealistic There's no way it could still be hanging on him, walrus suit. That's my issue with the end of the film, and I think that would have been a much rougher ending than what we got. I laugh at the ending of this movie because as someone who enjoys altered states of mind, not of the film's fine, but altered states you you you, you know, somebody's smoking a fat joint and going, what's the funniest way to add this?

Moom oh? They throw him a fish. Eddie's in a zoo. Like that's it, I mean, which is basically what they do in that podcast, right, Like it's not even that funny though, right, like, because you're not going for funny anymore. Right But and that's again, like that's the tonal inconsistency of the movie rearing its ugly head once again, because as far as I'm concerned, the ending is equal parts funny and fucked up because these like, these people have resigned their friend to this zoo.

They care so little for Like my interpretation of the ending is they care so little for their friend that they did essentially nothing to prevent him being in the zoo, and they've essentially allowed him to be there because he's a piece of shit anyways, Right, And like Genesis Rodriguez feels bad, but she's also clearly still like Joel Osmond, So like I don't like that's like the ending. I think the ending works on two levels. I think the ending works, Like at face value, I get it, though, like, realistically it doesn't work because none of Like again, you really got to suspend disbelief with the wal recuit because of the design. I've always asked, like, is he ends in the same shape as it was a year earlier?

The skin is in the same shape. There is no fucking possible way. Is he in blubber in the suit? Is he in like a contraption in the suit that bulks him out because he's the suit's huge, Like it's just eight legit. Like, when I'm asking questions like that, you're you're unable to capture my attention and pull me away from asking fucking questions that in and of themselves are fucking stupid, Right, But like it's a stupid question to ask, how does the wal recuit work in a movie because like, the fuck does it really matter?

But at the same time, it does because in a reality that your craft thing you want to hue close to something that we can all agree is a relatable reality of the how the human body works. Because we're ultimately in a body horror movie. The payoff is we're thinking about ourselves being in that position and how terrible that would be. And I can't understand what the suit even is like if I were to be stuck in that suit, because I can't I can't physically understand the design because it's not well done. The way to do this design, I think, if you really want to get fucking disgusting, is you like break and fuse the legs together and then you essentially like just like I don't know, like cut the arms off and reattach them or something, and then the thing with the tibia is fucking great.

That is inspired. That's the most inspired thing in this entire movie is taking someone's leg bones and polishing them down and turning them into tusks. That's fucking great. That really is great. I think that I agree because it bothers me too, and it could be a couple throwaway line from Michael Parks, like he explains so much as it is right, it wouldn't be uncharacteristic for him to say, oh, and you know, the blubber will keep you warm in the cold water that's surrounded.

But I do agree with the leg thing, and I think that's part of the problem that I had when I first saw it, Like that's the different path would be to construct this a different way. And they show and Johnny Depp even does the example of the flipper arms, which he's but he's not sewn up that way. He's sewn up with his arms down along his body. His hands would be near his his waist. That's not how they show him sewn up by Michael Parks.

His hands are not up at his shoulders right together together here or sewn together here. He's sewn together like on his side, the ribs, the sides of his arms. It's not done the way that he's presented in the film. Right. So you know, I don't want to go all cinema sins like I joke, but the world that you're creating needs to have some continuity.

And you're you're showing me one thing and telling me another and I remember what you showed me because it's a pretty horrible scene. Both of his legs are gone. Now you've stitched an extra piece of skin. It looks like to his chest and his arm, but his arm isn't up like that. I'm very certain that his arm is not up in that position that would when yes, you're laying on your stomach, then your arms would be up here shoulder height, which is how he's presented as a walrus.

It's not done that way though, So yeah that I think that the ending that I imagine in my head would have been a lot rougher and more emotional, and we can't go there in this movie that's kind of supposed to be Goofy that comes in with an incredit scene of Gilapont talking about eating too many sliders. So they almost get there, though, because they mentioned institution in that they don't talk about so obviously this was changed from the podcast idea to the movie. They talk about them going, and I think it's just Teddy and not the girlfriend talk about him going and visiting him in an institution. But he has gone full lall risks, and I think that idea would have worked better with him having been repaired physically as much as possible, but his fucking mind is gone because of this experience that's a much harder rougher India than what we get, and more emotional even than what we get.

And it is, like you said, it is pretty emotional and he finally cried what she had never seen him do. I mean, if you're not trying to pull out emotion with that whole bit, then why have the flashback to her talking about that in the middle of this, right? I mean it likes stall the ending out. You think the movie's about to end, and then it goes on for like another two or three minutes just to get just to get this point across of like who the character of Wallace is. I think Justin Long is obviously the best part of this movie other than Michael Parks.

I think they're kind of one A and one B. They're both so good. And again, like you mentioned with something like Barbarian, you know, my point of entry with Justin Long is Galaxy Quest, first movie that he was in ninety nine, and like he's so lovable and kind of like nerdy lovable in that movie, and then like I just equate him with that kind of character like an accepted and cheepers creepers, and like that's just the characters that he plays. And yeah, like this is such a weird turn for him that would then get echoed almost a decade later with something like Barbarian. But this was like the first time I had seen him being this like kind of self aggrandizing dickhead.

But it works, like he really pulls it off. And I also think that the mustache helps. For whatever reason, he looks he looks like such a big dickhead with that mustache. I don't know what it is, like something about that mustache just makes him even more feel like a prick. Like it it's it is inspired.

Yeah, I saw somebody or it might have been on the IMDb trivia and this is just idiotic. But to relate back to the the whole Nazi thing, and you know, they mentioned they always have to correct people or or explain what they mean by Nazi, but he does, you know, the German accent and stuff, and he mentions Hitler and puts his fingers up to show that kind of the Hitler mustache. And so some idiot on the IMDb trivia put you know, Hitler had a mustache like that. But justin Longs is shaved in that area. I'm like, that's it's not shaved, it's just where his fucking cleft is.

Your hair doesn't grow there. For some people, it's not shaved down the middle. To be like an inverse the fucking idiot. Let's start. Let's start our prog rock band, me and you Mark.

We'll call it Inverted Hitler. Inverted Hitler mustache. God, this part here now, they gave him a mustache because he's a fucking Walrus and walruses haber mustaches. That's why they gave him a mustache exactly. And speaking of him, he's great as the self entitled prick.

But when he first wakes up out of his stupor his like kind of half lucid or half awake acting, and that scene is fucking amazing. Yeah, it is. So It's what I've never been put under anaesthesia, but having watched videos of kids coming, you know, you see all this shit after people get their wisdom teeth pulled. Man, he fucking nails it. And to me that was impressive.

A lot of people overdo the drunk or the you know, anesasised acting that and his just perfectly mannered dickhead sell this movie for me him alone, and Michael parks like, I'm enjoying much more in this than Red State. He's great too, But man, he's in that just in the getting directions from the the yoga hoser girls that you know, snapping at them, all those little things that that narcissistic dickheads do. It's to a t perfection. And he does the same fucking thing in Barbarian He's the same guy. He uh so, he's he shows up in Yoga hosers Um playing a completely different character whose name is and I shit you not Yogi Bayer, which which is apt which it comes back throughout the movie that there's a whole gag connected to that.

But that's very much more the kind of character I expect him to play. And that's very it's more of like a character actors character of like a clearly effeminate yoga instructor in a strip mall in Manitoba, like and like it's it's a funny character that I expect Justin Long to play. This is not the kind of character I expect him to play. This is so atypical, but he plays it. He plays it better than people that play this character all the time way like, and that's probably because again, like I always feel like people that are super nice could also just turn on a dime like that and become these like massive pricks.

And he just and like and again, Genesis Rodriguez hints at as much in the movie that at one point he was this like very kind of like down to earth, very humble guy, and now he's just like complete conceited. He's full of himself, get it, like a ball risk, he's big, he's full of himself. I want to say though, that this is not even beyond this and Barbarian and I'm looking to see if I can find an example of this where he does play this character. Again, he's one of the best parts of Idiocracy. I just always think of him like as the best parts of the things that he's in.

But he's never the lead, like unless he like but when he is the lead, he's amazing. Because it's a movie will probably never talk about, unfortunately, but you and I bring it up anytime we bring up mister Justin Long, which is fucking cheaper screepers, Like that's cheaper screepers. Is one isn't he kind of an asshole in that though? Too? Yeah, but he's like he's like an asshole in like a lovable sibling way, because remember it's like sibling, it's like siblings going back and forth in that movie.

We'll never talk about that movie, not because it's a bad movie, but because we don't want people to think that we're supporting child pedophiles. I guess Jesus Christ, that movie is amazing though, like it's and it's I'm trying. I don't like dragging it a hell. I've seen it a couple of times. I think he's maybe more sympathetic than that.

But he has that you can see it. He has that ability to turn kind of that goofy charm onto its dark side, right and and like I keep saying, you know this and Barbarium, it's it's amazing, and it actually kind of scares me a little bit to think, Okim, well, maybe he is really an asshole and this isn't a stretch for him to do these kind of parts, because he does it really well, very very well. I hope it's just because he's a good actor. I don't know. I think justin I think from everything I've seen Justin Long is a I think he's a I think he's a good guy.

I hope he's like Sam Rockwell. It's like I hope that you're a nice guy because like I really like you, and like, you know what, that's the Buddy Cop movie that somebody make that Justin Long and Sam Rockwell, that would be like endearing the Buddy Cop movie, like the two of them as partners. Yeah, that's a whole lot of weird energy right there. I'm there for it. I'm there for it.

I do. I do want to point out the kind of other thing that I feel, like, you know, I don't know, gets unfairly leveled against this movie is you know, I think at the time it was a weird looking horror movie. And now if you say what this movie is to people, there were sponsors what I like that this is an A twenty four movie. But at the time, like people were not on board with the look of this movie, and like, now like this movie, Like if you say to someone this is an A twenty four movie, they were like, I said, it's someone yesterday. They're like, no fucking way.

I was like, no, yes, Like verse ten, A twenty four movies like the look of the movie is a twenty four. It is in that wheelhouse of like the weird muted colors, like it's there. I was pleasantly surprised at how much better this looked than a Red State. You can really tell was shot digital yea on one of those red digital cameras, and parts of this were too, and I think even the errorflex camera they use was digital. But man, it looks like film, and it looks so much.

This looks like a real movie to me compared to Red State. Red State looks digital, completely digital. I think it kind of works for Red State, though, because if it could if that docu drama, yeah, yeah, it does. I think if it had leaned on it more, it would have been better. It bugged me at first because I just I remember those times when those movies were coming out on this and it just wasn't quite right, and maybe they weren't fiddling with it adding grain or whatever bullshit they do now.

But I quickly got into it because this fits actually fits the story we're telling here, where you see this kind of you've seen this on the news, you've seen Waco, you've seen Ruby Ridge in a digital format, like this already, So yeah, it does. It lends itself to that story. I don't think it was done on purpose that way necessarily. Maybe it was, but I was like, oh, is this going to look like crap too? I don't remember it looking bad, but I saw in the theater so it was projected on a screen and was pleasantly surprised at how good it looked.

It's a really nice looking movie. It's really well shot. There are a couple of really interesting focus pulls. There's also that one shot when they break into the house and it kind of pulls back from Haley Joan And there's some interesting stuff done in this movie. Again, like not what you would expect from Kevin Smith.

Also, the soundtrack is interesting. I mean, look, they mentioned what the gag is going to be at the end of the movie in the podcast, and they followed through. I'll give him credit what credit is due. They played the goddamn Fleetwood Max song. They played Tusk right when they're fighting, and you know what, it works.

It actually totally works because of the that music. And I couldn't remember. I'm like, okay, do they use the song on this? And then as he's driving up to the house. It's in the score the beat of the Fleetwood Max.

It's not the Fleetwood Max song, but the score is definitely mimicking the Fleetwood Max song as he's pulling up to what was it, Pippie Hill, Pippie Hill, and I'm like, oh, okay, they're probably going to use it at some point, if not in the end credits, they're going to use Tusk. And it makes sense because of the rhythmo that song. It's like a it's like a tribal drum beat and it's it feels like a fight song in a way, like a school fight song. Right, So yeah, I think it works perfectly. How do you feel about the client?

How do you feel about the climax of this movie? Though? The Michael Parks versus Justin Long in wall recuits that I do want to mention you didn't mention this. I have to give props where props are due to Justin Long for sitting in that wall recuit for his long he did because it might not look good. It might not lets it's not a matter of looking good.

It doesn't film well, that's we'll just put it that way. Yeah, that's a good way to say it. It doesn't film well, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a man in that goddamn suit, and he is an actor who does not want to have to be in that suit any longer than he probably wanted to be frankly, because that thing could not have been comfortable. But I think, in spite of kind of how restrictive the suit seemed, I still think Justin Long pulls a hell of upper form. It's out of it essentially all through his eyes and grunting.

M yeah. I For some reason it went over my head. I'm like, wait a minute, he didn't remove his vocal chords. How is he still making sounds? Or he obviously didn't remove his book records because he's making sounds.

And then it took Gui La Pont explaining when they found discovered that one body that he doesn't have a tongue, and I'm like, oh, yeah, duh. Should the world's first character is Gui La Plant. That's that's what we all just no character needs to be as obnoxious delivering expository dialogue as Gai La Plant is this movie. I mean, I guess if you're going to have an exposition dump, it should be interesting. So I can't fault him for that.

Yes, yeah, I mean, I'm yeah, that's fair pretty I mean I chuckled during that scene. It just feels odd with the what we've just pulled out of And I like the way he says how howured out it? Just like says it like four or five times, and it's like such a weird I don't know, like well he slips in and out of that accent, just like a yeah, I'm not gonna say that. He is a Look, Johnny Depp is a class act right like as an actor, like it as weird as the character is, I don't think anybody else could have pulled it off as kind of bizarrely as he does. I'm not saying it works, but he is uniquely qualified to portray a weird fucking character because I think that's in a lot of ways, that's been his m O from day one.

Is right just doing whatever he wants. So, but I like the end of the movie. I think it works as kind of like wild and Zany as it is the two of them fighting. I do like that the way he gets the upper hand is proper brutal and gross and over the top, but still hewing to like, this is a horror movie. I'm glad and that was the one thing I couldn't remember.

I'm like, okay, I know that there is I know he survives, and you know, well those happy endings if I mean, it's not a happy ending. But I don't want him to die because of this guy, because he doesn't. As much of as a prick as he is, he doesn't nobody deserves to die like this in Canada, of all players. Um, but I didn't remember the fight thing at all, and so I was happy that he took him out with a tusk through the foot. I thought that was a nice little bit of what do you call it, yeah, serendipity, Yeah, something to that effect.

Well, narrative, a little narrative. Yeah, And that's when he goes full warrus. So that's that's his ultimate demise too, is because now he has made that switch which he was being primed for. So right, So Howard Howard whatever the hell his real name is, succeeded in in that much at least. Yeah, Benjamin Bucer just oh my.

And the subtitles for this movie are great. When they say Busier, it's like m O O S E E A y. It's like, this is not even a real name. They're saying. It's so um comically obviously, yeah to call out for Scott Moser, but um the detective that they go to with his ful Ralph Garman.

The canadianisms of this movie are pretty funny, and it's played. It is played for laughs, and that guy particularly does a really good job of exaggerating the accent and whatnot. It's always weird to see Harley Morens steam and stuff. He plays the border patrol agent. Um, do you know what he's from.

He's from a YouTube series called Epic meal Time where they would make like over the top food with fast food. So they would go and like buy Big Max and then like take the Big Max and like make a lasagn yeah out of him by and like this was like a whole so they started that whole TikTok bullshit that happens. This was long. I understand that, but that has morphed into this hideous thing that these white women do in their stately, you know kitchens. I'm gonna make big Mac lasagna and they put a bunch of fucking Big Max in a casserole dish and pour a bunch of hainous shit on it and then bake it and act like they actually eat it.

It's just a fucking horrendous waste of food. Okay, fair, but these these dudes did eat it like they made They made like a point at the end of the video, like okay. Their their videos had very like early taeds masculine, like dude bro energy, So they would like make the food and then the final shot of the episode would be all of them sitting down and like eating it together. Often it was like large they were making like large quantities of things too, but they did always eat it at the end. But he's like a weird like pop culture artifact of a time that like has long passed because like you said, now it's like these weird white I thought you're gonna say the women that are like dumping the pasta on the counter to it is, but like this is this isn't like that.

This was like them actually cooking food, not like putting food in a toilet and saying like, oh, you're gonna eat a snow cone out of a toilet, Like no, but that's what these women do too. They make I know it's all wrapped up, is say, this was like real food that they were cooking, but again it was like exaggerated portions and shit whatever. But it's weird because he's in this and he's in yoga hosers. But like I was curious if you had any idea who he was, and you don't. And that's really funny because like they make kind of a point of having him and Justin Long have an interaction like he's supposed to be somebody, right, Yeah, it's a funny little bit.

It kind of sets up the tone of or the idea where that he's he's nice and effusive, but then it sort of switches and he's not sure if he's fucking with him. Justin Long's not sure if the guy's fucking with him or not, and it sets up this tension that is going to, you know, lead us to the Michael Parks encounter where oh he's got these great stories. Oh shit, I feel like I've been drugged. Oh wait, you know, for me it works in that way, not so much as because I'm not going to know really anybody from Kevin Smith's universe that's in this movie or like The Detective or the if I hadn't read the IMDb trivia while I was watching this, Scott Mosier Moser connection with the name that they're using, and all these other people.

His wife, his wife being the waitress in the Slider restaurant. But she's like everything, She's in like every single one. She's in Clerks too, playing like a main character, like she's in Red State from what I understand, So all these connections to his world, even just his podcast or production team or fran I'm surprised Jason Mus isn't in this. He probably provides the voice for something, some voiceover or whatever he's in. He's in Yoga Hoozer and his cameo and Yoga Hoozers has to do with Tusk.

He's like a fan of Gila Puant's book and he's like, your book is my Bible, and it's Jason. It's just Jason Mus right, Like yeah, so, yeah, I was surprised he's not in this. This is like again similarly to Red State, it's a very un Kevin Smith Kevin Smith movie. It doesn't wear It's Kevin smithiness on its sleeves. I mean probably, I guess it does more so than Red State.

Yeah, it does so more than Red State and that's right. It's it's incarnation was a part of his podcast. When do we get a chance to do that? We could talk buck Man some idiotic story about wanting a guy to live in your house in a Walterce suit and turn it into Walters yes or Walter Snow. I know it's Oh my god.

You know what though, Like, what's funny is this happened in twenty fourteen, Like and we're in the heyday of podcasting now. It's like, like I mentioned to you when I went to see the movie, I like, I was Michael Park's character, Like, what the fuck is a podcast? I was like, I said, eight podcasts into doing this. So I was just that I wouldn't even say in twenty fourteen, in December of that year, I would even consider myself a podcaster, Like eight episodes does not make you anything other than subdued with a microphone on the internet. So yeah, no, I really didn't fully comprehend.

And I believe my wife was already listening to quite a few podcasts. I just didn't. It was something that I was not in tune with at the time. I'm like, wait a minute, what it's like a radio show. But it's on the internet.

How the fuck does that work? Where do you listen to it? Why do you listen to it? I became a certain age and as a white cis hit male. I was assigned my podcast so because I need a platform, because because otherwise, you know, my uh, the group that I I am in doesn't have a voice in this room as a saying, you're genuine, unique and individual opinion will not be heard.

Is that what you're telling me? Yeah, because I'm I'm underrepresented, isn't you? You and Kevin Smith? Right, I think we're pretty close in age to each other. Yeah, Kevin Smith is for you.

He speaks to you. He's fifty two man. Oh shit, I'm older man. Look you know what though ultimately half a year younger. Okay, like like ultimately like for me.

And this is gonna I don't know. I think it's I think it's I think it's funny that this movie has the reception that it has, and I get it. But I think this movie if played for people now, I think people would really resonate with this movie. And I think that's because horror is in a different place than it was in twenty fourteen. I think, like I think in a lot of ways you would probably agree.

Like if this movie we're coming out on shutter like in a week, people would be like excited for something like this, Like a movie where a guy is in a Walrus suit, like and it's directed by Kevin Smith and Johnny Depp is in it. Like this movie right now would be fucking crazy. People would be really interested, Like horror TikTok would be all over this like that. That's the thing that's crazy about this movie is this movie has a I feel like it should have a longevity that nobody talks about. And that's odd because so much of what this movie is doing is so popular now, including but not limited to, it's a fucking a twenty four movie.

Guess who had just won an Oscar for Best Picture. It wasn't a twenty four or anything. Oh wait, it was like a twenty four right now? Are the movie studio folks in Hollywood and not just for actual quote serious movies, but also for a long time they've been a horror movie place. Ari Astor's stuff, this movie, Yeah, the which so much stuff has been on a twenty four and this movie it deserves to be part of that conversation.

I mean, I get I get that it's a silly, goofy, fucking weirdass movie that's tone is all over the place. But I do think you would agree with me. This movie would definitely find an audience in twenty twenty three. Well, it strikes that chord as we were talking and have talked before about oh, you know this crazy movie just hit Tiff or whatever other south By Southwest. Oh, you guys are going to freak out when you see this, And I see that constantly now on Twitter, and then Barbarian is a good example of that, like, oh, this is fucking insane.

You know, sometimes they meet that expectations. Most of the time they don't. This would probably get a conversation like that these days. I don't know what the conversation was because I wasn't on Twitter in twenty fourteen, but yeah, these things get pretty hyped up when they play festivals, and I could see this being like, oh, you won't believe what happens to justin long and this, so would just wait until you see what happened. Oh just wait, Oh you guys haven't seen anything like this, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

So yeah, right, it feels like it. I don't know if the consensus because I again I see that stuff. And then a couple weeks later, the naysayers start to come out and see all this positive praise for stuff like Barbara. I'm just gonna keep using Barbarian as an example, and I go, oh, you know, I'm gonna check this out when it's available. And then a little while later, after all the praise seems to die away, then the naysayers, I think, feel more comfortable going, yeah, I didn't care for Barbarian, what are you?

You know, what was the hype about this? It's not that crazy, it's just frustrating or whatever, you know, whatever the negative reviews are. So it may have had at playing at a festival and getting all this not even praise, but just like, oh you can't but you won't believe this, blah blah blah, And then a month later it would have been like, ah, what were you guys talking about with this? Tusk movie didn't make any sense or the suit was ridiculous or whatever. So would it would it have a higher run Tomatoes score now than it did then?

Who knows? Not that that's the you know, yeah, I think it would. I think it would be more I think it would find an audience more eat like more regularly. I think an audience would resonate with this movie. I don't think an audience in twenty fourteen was particularly ready for something like this, something so kind of strange, like look at something like Men, Like that movie is strange, like in a way that this movie can't even really comprehend, Like this movie doesn't have a guy being berthed out of another dude's dick, like I mean, Men.

Pretty divided movie though, too. So there's a lot of people that do not like Men. Well yeah, yeah, I don't blame them. My daughter is one of them. But at the same time, like there's the same sentiment towards this movie, like I don't know an anyone that's like, uh, it's fine, Tusk is fine, Like I don't know anybody who feels that way.

It's either I liked it or fuck this movie. Like it's like, for whatever reason, this movie strikes some people as like an affront, Like your daughter refused to watch this with you, Yeah, I think she would be surprised that it's less bizarre than barbarian to keep using that as an example, because Justin Long's in that and plays the same basic character, and that goes all kinds of crazy and a sort of ridiculous kind of crazy like this, and it's sort of disgusting in parts, and this doesn't really get all that disgusting. It's kind of tame, like I said, like I said at the opening of this episode, like it's a body horror movie, but it kind of never really like it hasn't. It doesn't dive real deep into the construction of the I think again that was what I was thinking was going to happen.

We're gonna see this really put together. It's like, all of a sudden, there it is. There's a treat. Like I said, this movie feels like there's some things missing, like not missing, but like left to our imagination, Like was Michael Park's doing more with Justin Long's Walrise character, because it wasn't just a day, like it was like a couple of days, like they were looking for him for a little bit, like what was going on again, Like things were just Wow Long and things like that are just left to us as the audience. Like I like that it helps with the movie.

But yeah, at the same time, like this is like, in a lot of ways, this is not the same movie I remember either, Like this is a like it's a slower movie. But then there's literally a point where the movie just goes we're there, We're there now, and it's like whoa. It feels like there's twenty minutes of this movie missing where we get to see a protracted torture of Justin Long. And again, like I again, you mentioned it pretty succinctly. The reason we don't see that is because that's not this movie.

That's Human Centipede, Like that's the Ark or tone that with a different ending, Like I imagine that's that movie, right, which probably would have been too much for most people. Well, and again, is that the movie Kevin Smith is interested in making, Like I don't know if his sensibilities human the reading, Yeah, from the reading of that podcast episode, I would say no, right, me and you. The ridiculous jokey jokiness of it that I think hit him more. I think it he went dark in the Justin Long Michael Parks duels. You know he can he can pull that off because he's really good at writing dialogue as it is, like he's a he's similar to Tarantino in his ability to write really interesting dialogue between characters.

Say what you will about Tarantino. Everything else, he knows how to write like dialogue between characters, just like Kevin Smith does. Everything else is what it is. But those scenes are great, But that's because Kevin Smith knows how to write characters talking. I'm surprised.

I will always be surprised. How nice this movie looks from a horror movie being shot in twenty fourteen. That's an a twenty four movie that looks like it could exist. Now, how nice, like how well put together this movie looks. That's shocking because it's Kevin Smith.

And also that he nails the horror tone, because, like you said, some of this shouldn't be surprising that it works, but the horror stuff kind of is surprising that it does work, because this is a horror movie in the way that Red State was trying to be or maybe even masquerading as one might say, I think this is much more of a horror movie period, And I would say even it's an old dark house even, I mean, you know, right, it plays in some of the old troops and the concept. Yeah, him saying that his next horror film, in reference to Red State, was going to be a straight horror movie. I find odd this. I could see him saying, Okay, yes, my next movie actually is the real straight horror movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And you know, all yoga hosers is, I'll be dead serious with you.

Is is the closest Kevin Smith has ever gotten to making evil dead. That's all it is. It's evil dead in a convenience store. Like, I'll watch it now. I mean, it's it's not it's not terrible, it's not great.

I see why the critics didn't like it. There are things about it. There are anachronisms about it that make it a little cringey, but ultimately there are parts of it that work. And I think Tusk is the one out of the three that works the best. I think that this works better than Red State.

I still like this more than Red State. I think that this I love Kevin Smith, I really do. And I love the other things. I love Mallrats and I love Clerks, but I think this might be my favorite Kevin Smith thing. Like it's just so weird and it works in a weird enough way that I can never kind of get it out of my mind.

I don't know, like it's just a it's a weird movie and the whole like, is man a wall is at Hartley? Nobody's asking that, but I guess someone is. And here's the answer. And the only person to ever ask that was Howard Howe. Yeah, and we kind of mentioned it on the Red State podcast, but I think we'd be remiss if we didn't mention it here.

This may be getting a sequel now, is that Moose Jaws or whatever? Or is this a separate thing that Canada Canada Nadia trilogy get dumped after this? So supposedly Moose Jaws is still happening and it's the one that's in production now. But according to Kevin Smith himself and justin Long last year, towards the end of the year, Kevin Smith is drumming up interest to see if anybody's interested in coming back for Tusks with a dollar sign at the end the way John John, Jim Jim not Jim James Cameron wanted to put a dollar sign at the end of Aliens, And I guess the kind of kin to that Kevin Smith has given as to what the possible direction for the sequel would be is and this is interesting because this is I kind of wanted to bring this up because it kind of answers something that you were talking about, and I think it kind of rectifies a problem with the end of this movie.

It would have Wallace out of the suit, but insane to the point of wanting to put other people in the same predicament he was in for some unknown reason that you could I'm sure concoct as a as talented a screenwriter as Kevin Smith. But like I could see that, like that would totally work. Like, you know, the story comes full circle in a way, right he meets the guy in the wheelchair who's insane, he becomes the man in the wheelchair who is insane. And you know what, Justin Long, I mean, I'm never gonna say noticing more Justin Long, Like You'll be goddamned if I'll say no, I don't want to see that movie, because I'll take that in a heartbeat, because that's Justin Long in a leading role or in a Michael Parks esque role in a Kevin Smith movie.

And he's already shown that he kind of gets how to do this if he could just find it a little bit more and nail the tone. I think a little bit more consistently. It might be actually something more people would come around on. So he'll have to be like a Stephen Hawking esque character in a wheelchair with a computer voice or something. Come back like Mason, like Mason Verger.

Yeah right, I mean Mason moving the straw and his on his thing to direct his scalpels to cut people up. And or he has a you know, a Confederate or something right like yeah, I don't know, Like look, whatever direction that is could be interesting. And it would be also again like it would allow Justin Long to really stretch his legs of being a shittheaded character because then he's just yeah, then he's just a full on villain, like and I'm I'm interested in that. So if that's happening, awesome, I'll watch whatever horror movie Kevin Smith makes. Honestly, Like, it's kind of weird that Kevin Smith makes horror movie, but I mean, man doesn't surprise me too much.

It's let me put it this way. If I told you the guy who made Clerks is making a horror movie before you know, before you saw it's knowing him as I mean, as little as I do. I don't think he seems like a horror movie fan to me, I guess is all I can really say about that interesting. That's the only reason it makes sense to me is he seems like he's he would be a horror movie fan. Well, I probably Well, I'm trying to think if he's on those Eli Roth history of horror shows or not.

I don't know if you I know Quentin Tarantino is, boy Howdy, I like horror. I've never made a horror movie. You know. If there aren't two people in the world who like to hear themselves talk more than those two knuckleheads, I don't know who they could possibly be. But do you think Tarantino would ever make a horror movie?

I guess he's not. I guess he's done. He's making one more movie and he's I know he's teased at every genre, but I think you'd probably make a good one. To be honest with you, I know a lot of his quote unquote favorite horror movies, and there's some touch knop top totch knop touch knop shit in their top notch. He has good taste.

I'm for the most part, Yeah, I mean, I'm surprised by some of the movies he doesn't like more than I'm surprised when I hear of a movie that he does. Like Kevin Smith wanted to get Tarantino to play the guy la Plant role in this film, which I feel like would have been a bigger misstep than Johnny Depp, because, as we all know, Quentin Tarantino's acting stylings are His best role is the Pastor, the blind Pastor and Little Nikki that is. That's about as far as I'll give Quinn Tarantino credit for acting, because he's atrocious. Yeah, he's really bad in pulp fiction. Every time those scenes come on, I'm just like a man.

I mean, he's really bad and Django unchained doing Australian accent out of your fucking mind, looking more and more like Richard Keel every year. Oh God, Richard Keeler Richard Kind, Richard Keel wait, Quentin Tarantino saws Quentin Tarantino. Yes, every year. He's like, do you have the same I thought you. I mean he also couldn't look like Richard Kind.

He kind of does. Yeah. I was like, did you say Richard guy? Oh, I meant Richard Keel either way. Yeah, I think Tarantino would have been an even bigger distraction if he had been the Gila Point character.

And boy, but I would have paid in French Canadian accent out of him. Though. I think if the makeup had been even more obscurative, if that's a word. Sure, if it was really hard to tell who it was, and you're going, who the fuck is that? Not that you should be so distracted that that's all you're thinking while he's talking, who the fuck is that?

But but it's obviously a guy in a romber mask. Yeah, so there's a scene, definitely, there's a scene in Yoga Hoozers where they show close ups of him and his his moles and warts change in every single shots. Yeah, like every single time. It's ranges. Yeah, that's awesome again, Like, so you do it.

Sometimes it feels like this movie just is one draft away from getting it. It's like you almost got it, you almost got it, I'll say, And this is it for me, This is you mentioned you know, you like a lot of the other films, and I have a very narrow knowledge of his movies, but this would have to be my favorite just by default. Like I'm not going back and watching Clerks. I'm not going back. I'm watching mal Rats, Chasing Amy.

Any of those probably won't watch Red State again, although I wouldn't be against it, but this is the movie, even though this is only the second time I watch it, that I can imagine myself seen again, so by default it has to be my best, my favorite Kevin Smith film. So any other final thoughts on Tusk, mister Bagley. I enjoyed it more of this second time. I think not having expectations or imagining the path that it was going to take helped. I didn't remember everything, but I remembered enough of it to go to not be so surprised.

I just think that they didn't nail the landing. I like my idea better, I really do. I'm kind of with you, you know. I went back and listened to the first time I did an episode on this in twenty fourteen, and my opinion has changed a little bit, and thank god, my criticism has gotten better, because boy, eight years ago, nine years ago, a long time, folks, for fuck's sake. But the thing that kind of still trips me up about this movie is the thing that you've kind of mentioned multiple times it's a movie that feels very much at odds with it so because it doesn't know what it wants to be, and then it doubles down on something that it shouldn't and in spite of it, it doesn't completely derail the movie.

And there are plenty of other movies out there where the entire movie falls apart the moment something like this happens, and thankful this movie is not one of them, but it's not. It kind of still makes the movie lesser than it could have been. And my hope in a lot of ways is if there is a follow up to this in any former fashion that isn't just Yoga Hosers, which is a complete beast of its own, that it is more akin to what this movie wanted to be and less what this movie was trying to be. Because this movie felt like it was trying to be one thing but wanted so badly to be something else. And I think now in twenty twenty three, it can be that thing it wanted to be, this kind of weird horror movie that has these weird little comedic bits that kind of stick out, but I don't think they need to stick out as far now because I think the time has changed, and I think the tones and expectations of horror movie audiences have changed.

Even horror movie fans are a lot more accepting of weirder things in their movies now than they were nine years ago. So so, speaking of horror movies, Mark, where could people find you hanging up your shingle talking about horror movies? Well, you can find me at wake Upheavy dot com. My show is wake Up Heavy recollections of horror what should be available wherever you listen to podcasts brought to you by the folks at Weirdingwaymedia dot com. And you can find my Showcambridge and Mashan there as well.

Totally different topics then horror movies, although movies do come up. Is something that my friend that I obsessed over as kids, and you can find Chris and Iyatt from the files of Police Squad in Color with the Maestro Mike White. That show is binge able now, I like to say, because all the episodes are out and available on Weirdenwaymedia dot com. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, letterboxed at wake Up Heavy is my handle on all social media. How about you, mister big Roundballs, Big Round Balls, Utground Balls Whedingwaymedia dot com.

Like Mark mentioned, that's where you can find me and all the things that I work on, which are many in number, many and varied. Yeah, boy, but they're all podcasts though it's weird. As for weirding Way Media, there are so many great shows you can check out over there, like Mark Begley's Wake Up Heavy, like Mike White Subrojection Booth, and like good old friend of the show Father Malone's Dark Destinations, a narrative based show where he goes to weird and scary destinations and you know, stirs up some trouble. We should go I should go listen to those. Those are some great narrative shows.

But if you're more interested in this show, culturecast dot com, Patreon dot com, slash culture cast all the ways you can help out monetarily like rate and review the show wherever you get it, though, if you can't do the whole money song and dance, Mark, thank you so much for joining me. As always, it's fun. Thanks for having me. Maybe we can change the opinion about this movie yet, I don't know. People seem pretty gully dead setting their ways.

Okay, yeah, I see a lot of I see love for this movie be out and out in my Twitter verse. Well that's good. I'm glad to hear it. So well, uh yeah, until the next episode. We'll we'll catch you on the next episode.