TPBxKC: Captain America: Brave New World

We're we welcome to the Projection booth. I'm your host, Mike White training me, of course, is mister Christashio. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. I'm angry all the time. I'm Harrison Ford.

Yes. In this episode, we are looking at Captain America, Brave New World. I present to you, Captain America. Can we start on February fourteen? Ye?

Did he just do that? You must be new Captain America? Right? Iba, how I anything? I am to real?

That didn't work? Watch this Captain America baiting New World to peach you thirteen. You get to get now, the latest installment of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This film marks a significant transition here, with Thanny Mackie stepping into the role of Captain America, succeeding Chris Evans's portrayal of Steve Rogers. And maybe he'll be the human Torch also one of these days.

No, that's a whole different. Guy technically has been in Deadpool? Oh is that right? Chris sevens? Was it was dead Pool?

Oh? No, I was talking about Anthony mack Oh, oh boy, that'd be fun. Yeah, exactly. Harrison Ford is a human Torch. Maybe we could do that.

Harrison Ford very red in this movie, and that's Is that like foreshadowing or is that just bad color contrast? Oh oh boy. I mean when you don't trust your movie enough to hide the fact that you have the Red Hulk in it? What are you doing here, folks? I'm so excited to talk about this movie.

It was not something I was gonna go out of my way to watch, not because I don't care about the MCU. Actually far from it. I feel like you and I at this point are pretty well invested. This is the thirty fifth MCU movie, and I believe I have only not seen two of those, maybe three Eternals Shang Chi and Guardians three. So I've seen thirty two of the thirty five movies.

I guess I've seen all thirty five. Wow. Boy, he's like an abuse. It's like abusive at this point, like we keep coming back and they keep well. I would say before we talk about the movie with spoilers, Mike, because this is a movie people have to go out and pay money to see.

Is this a movie people should pay money to go watch in the theaters? Is this an MCU experience worth enjoying because we're not getting just one more MCU movie this year, We're getting two more. Don't forget they're back on their bullshit. As we would say, Well, Chris, as someone who is concerned about the price of eggs in America, I don't want to tell people to go out and spend frivolously, but I'll say that I spent my money to go see it. And then the power went out right at the first act turn the power clicked off, and I was like, did I hear music?

What was going on? Something so strange? We all just die. Yeah, it was very bizarre. I was like, is this because they made a reference to the Eternals and no one has ever to speak of that movie again.

But no, I guess it's okay. So yeah, I spent money on it. I don't know, Chris, what's your opinion of this. I think that this movie they probably didn't need to exist. It was probably a TV show that they kind of I don't know.

It was like a TV show they didn't have enough for, so they forced it into a movie that they also then feel like they didn't have enough for. Because again, it's not this is not a spoiler because it's been part of the advertising, but the Red Hulk is in the movie. The spoiler will be when we get to talk about how much the Red Hulk is in the movie. I would say, if you're going to see this movie based on the advertising, you are going to be sorely disappointed because the way the film is advertised versus what the film is two very different things. I think this movie, in a lot of ways is a poor effect simile of Winter Soldier, a much better Captain America movie.

I think that there are parts of this movie that are good that I did enjoy. I didn't go into this movie with very high hopes. I went into this movie with zero hopes, if any hopes at all. I frankly went into this movie with negative expectations, given that I really Deadpool Wolverine. I've watched it subsequently to it coming out, and it was just fine.

It was just fine then, and I think we all enjoyed it a lot more because it was a Deadpool thing. But I think this movie is right back to earth with the kinds of movies that the MCU was effectively putting out before Deadpool Wolverine. I guess I have seen thirty one of the thirty five movies, because I haven't seen the Marvels either, which is in there, right. I love the chuckle is there because it's probably just as useless of information to know that that movie happened as it is with The Eternals. They probably probably if they even mentioned it in this movie, which they didn't, it would have been just a one line statement to get out of the way of the things that are happening in the movie.

All that to say, no, I do not think you should go check this movie out. I think this movie is not worth your time for the most part, because in a lot of ways, it is a sequel to a movie that nobody asked for, which is the weirdest thing, because in a lot of ways, Marvel and the MCU specifically has felt like it's been dodging the issue that this movie is now addressing for seventeen years, and now this movie just like trundles into it headfirst and doesn't really acknowledge the fact that it's been seventeen years. It doesn't acknowledge a lot of things that have happened since. But the things that it does acknowledge are so like again, the things that are like, well, people have been asking for us to do something.

It's like, have people been asking for the Eternals to have any sort of information re brought up? Not really, so I don't think so. No, I think this is a skip. So I think we're both kind of on different ends of the spectrum at the moment. So before we move on, I do want to address the whole Red Hulk thing because I was frankly shocked when I was watching the trailer for this at the movie theater a few months ago and that they were just so blatant about showing the Red Hulk because it was like, I thought that was supposed to be a surprise because the posters that I'd seen for it were the Red Hulk hand holding the shield.

The other one I saw was Anthony Macki behind the shield in a red fist coming in. So I was like, oh, well, that's good. They're teasing this Red Hulk thing. They're jawsing it up. They're doing it a little too much with this poster of the red fist coming in.

But that could be any creature, it doesn't have to be a Hulk. But then I watched the trailer, I was like, oh, Okay, well fuck me. Then I guess this is just how we're doing this. We're gonna have this big twist. Well, I guess maybe it's not a big twist.

Maybe in the movie that's revealed at the end of act one. No, this is an Act three reveal. Everyone already knows what is going to happen. And Jesus Christ, what did you just have no faith in this movie whatsoever that you had to let the cat out of the bag in the trailer? I mean, can you not create a trailer about Captain in America, the new Captain America and all the struggles he's going through, which they barely touch on.

I mean they get the one line about you know, I like Steve Rogers better or whatever it was. And I was just like, think that people would lose their fucking mind if there was a new Captain America. And how do you God forbid a black Captain America. Oh jeez, it's a ei hire is coming for your jobs here, White America. Well, and then don't forget Falcon is now also Colombian.

Oh god, and there's a Jewish lady in here too. Oh, and Harrison Ford is playing an old curmudge lym Oh wait, never mind, he's playing himself, got it all right? Yeah, it's interesting he's a compromised president, as if people have dirt on him. Maybe when he was forty he went to Russia. Maybe I don't know.

But it's very It's okay, let's just get get to spoilers. I think if you were listening to this conversation up to this point, you're gonna have made your own opinions and thoughts. And you want us to get to the point where we can talk about the movie and actually talk about the movie. But let's talk about the red Elephant in the room. The Red Hulk is in the movie, and I shit you not, because I have the movie through means just like you do.

The movie ends at an hour and fifty minutes. The Red Hulk is on screen at one hour and thirty two minutes in. I'm surprised it's even that long. That's fucking insanity. The Red Hulk is not an afterthought.

The Red Hulk has his own comic book. The Red Hulk is a massive storyline in the comic books that again nails what look, we would both agree with what they're going for. Thunderbolt Ross is a fucking asshole who deserves to get turned into the Red Hulk, because then he is no better than the thing that he has been chasing, trying to create since the first Incredible Hulk movie, all the way back in two thousand and eight. The Summer of Iron Man was also the summer the Incredible Hulk. I would say even further back than that, to two thousand and three.

Fair Yes, the yeah, the oft beligned Eric Bannett movie, which I mean again, look, ang Lee was doing his own thing. I think that movie is not a Hulk movie. It is an interesting movie, but I don't think it's a Hulk movie. You know, say what you will about it. It's an interesting movie.

I don't think it succeeds at much. But both the Hulk movies are better than this one. Yeah, Shit, Avengers was more of a Hulk movie than this one was. Definitely it was more of a Hulk movie than this one was. We got to find you know, but that he is angry all the time, those things.

Yeah. I went back and I watched the two thousand and three Hulk movie in preparation for this conversation, and it's it's so bad, and it just it's like, that's a weird failure. Though, right, it's not like very strange. It's not like this is the kind of failure that we're so used to at this point that I'm just like, all the MCU is doing is just living up to the expectations of not doing much that Anglee movie, because it's two thousand and three and effectively all we've really had is Spider Man and X Men movies. It's such a weird failure because it's such a weird movie that yes, I agree with you, it's a failure.

And I also rewatched it. I didn't dislike it as much. I was just kind of like, ah, this is weird, but it's weird in a way that like these movies tend to not be weird anymore. So I'm almost I mean, again, this is I know you might bristle at this a little bit, but I would equate it almost too. The prequel Star Wars movies are bad.

They're not great, but at least they're all one singular vision from one person. The MCU at one point lost the ghost. I feel like it was post endgame and they haven't been able to like coalesce their ideas into something manageable since and this movie is yet another example of that, Like this is just wheel spinning. Like, you know, at least the Anglee movie somewhat had something to say, at least that first incredible Hulk movie was a Hulk movie. This is a Captain America movie that is in fact a fucking Hulk movie instead.

And it does neither of those things very well. And it weighs Anthony Mackie, who I actually really like, it's too bad. He's really kind of charming, And so is the actor who plays Falcon, the other Falcon now Falcon, who's not Anthony Mackie. Danny Ramirez also great as Joaquin Torres Falcon. So I don't know, what a shame.

That's my takeaway from this movie is what a shame? Really? Yeah, I don't agree with you that this was a bad movie. I had some fun that it's not the best movie in the world. Yeah, I'm not saying it's a I'm not saying it's a bad movie.

I'm just saying it's not worth going to see in theaters. Like it's better than I thought, but it's not worth going to spend money. I think is more the issue. I wanted to go back to Hulk two thousand and three. Actually, one of the problems with that movie is that there are too many villains, Like we have experienced that time and time again and think other than like non Ursa and Zod and maybe like the three brothers from The Lone Wolf and Cub two or there's very few times where you get multiple multiple villains on screen where it really adds to things like I think you should aim at too and stop there because you've got Thunderbolt Ross in that one as well, who's trying to stop the Hulk.

You've got Hulk's dad, Nick Nolty, that very confusing character. And then you also have and I'm trying to remember the guy's name, the guy who does voiceover commercials for Home Depot these days, who was also in Stealth. I can't remember that actor's name. It's not Ship Yeah, Josh, he's not. He's not Patrick Wilson, Uh yeah, I might be Josh Lucas, yes, and he's also there, And I'm like, that's one villain too many guys.

You really should have kept this down to Thunderbolt Ross. Is you know her father is Betty's father, and he's maybe a better father. He's trying to protect his daughter. And then you get the other father who's trying to corrupt his son, like literally he has corrupted his blood. But yeah, this whole thing of Josh Lucas in here is just like, get out of here.

You know you're you're freaking uh, you're the whiplash of this movie. You know we don't need you in this movie right now, Thank you very much. Give me my boy. You know that is a boy I want. Mickey Rock ladies and gentlemen.

It's like he joined us in the studio right now. And then Yeah, the two thousand and eight Hulk, I actually still really like a lot. I kind of wish that Ed Norton hadn't have been such a dickhead and could have kept being. I'm a great guy. I like Mark Ruffalo.

I I love Mark Ruffle is in one of my favorite movies. I mean, he's in Zodiac. I love Mark Ruffalo, but Ed Norton had an edge to him. Mark Ruffalo, can we just speak to Mark Ruffalo's Hulk is kind of a kind. Of a dorky and really was not a dork like at all.

Like he's a dick like Norton, Is I mean taking taking inspiration from reality? I guess, well, neither of those hulks. No, not, none of the Hulks that I've seen so far, I don't think ever so far, I immediate you with the exception of this Red Hulk, But even then, I don't know, none of them could experience the whole World War Hulk and Planet Hulk storyline. You know, that is a Hulk that is just bent on revenge and bloodshed and just enjoys violence. Since that whole thing of like him getting more strong as he gets more angry, and he just enjoys the anger and revels in the anger.

That whole thing. I mean, I went back and I reread those and holy shitter, amazing. World War Hulk is so good World War Like Okay, So let's I'm want to talk broadly about something here that has been an MCU problem because I was watching a lot of MCU content to prepare for this, like hours of MCU content, both movies and critical thought on the MCU, the MCUs. Here's some of the biggest problems the MCU has had, and this is one of them. Micro microtizing the big plot lines into singular films and television show experiences.

Secret Invasion was a television show. Fuck you. Civil War was a singular movie. Fuck you. The Planet Hulk was a singular movie.

Sort of, fuck you Hulk a singular movie. Fuck you. These are and the biggest one for me, And this is the one that pisses me off still because this is the one that they they not only missed it, but they missed it and it just kept going. And then they came back to it and they were like, but see red Skull, fuck you Red Skull should have been Like, I get we had Thanos, but you red Skull before the Red Skull went out before Thanos. Red Skull is not even part of Captain America's story after the first movie, Like and it's it was that cut, but again, like that could be given a pass because of when it happened.

This, Now, why are you doing Red Hulk at the end of a Captain America movie and you're ostensibly never gonna return to this because I don't think they're gonna get Harrison Ford back. No either, Yeah, I don't know why they would have cast so we all know William Hurt passed away. He had been Thunderbolt ross. In, he never would have done that fucking sing. Anyways, there's no universe where you would have had him doing this, right.

I can't imagine someone being like William hrk go stand over there and pretend to shit yourself like the Hulk. Okay, I just wish that had they thought about it, they cast somebody a little bit younger and made him up to look older, because we've had that problem where they were de aging William Hurt, especially in that Black Widow movie. Holy shit, don't that look awful? Date Michael Douglas an ant man, He looked okay, but okay them when they damed Robert Downey Junior in. Civil War, Yes, I do.

And he looked exactly like he did in Less than. Zero He did. He sure did. Yeah. I know how to nail it sometimes sometimes yeah, but yeah, that William Hurt stuff was way uncanny with that, and I was just like, ah, so, yeah, get somebody a little bit younger, you know, or throw Sam Elliott at Bolten and get him over here, rather than doing freaking insurance commercials on TV every half hour.

I don't understand why they took these big storylines and they make them small issues. Secret invasion is a thing that, like that should have been a thing that they were dealing with from day one, like the Fanos. The issue of Danos started in Avengers one. That was two thousand and thirteen thirteen. We're ten years on from that, and we're how many years removed from endgame at this point, six years removed from endgame.

They haven't even been able to show us a threat comparable to Thanos since, like, and we're barreling towards an Avengers movie within the next year and a half, because you've burned through all Like the Hulk should have been a villain. The Hulk should have been the villain for the next ten movies. You do a planet Hulk thing and have the Avengers Planet Hulk, because again, they sent the Hulk went away, but they just they burned. They burned through it. Like it's it's wild to me how quickly they burned through things that you would think they would be, like, we need to spend so much time on this and build this up and do all that, not fifteen minutes.

Red Hulk never gonna see it again in the MCU, Like, wait a second, here, it's fucked. It's just fucking wild, and it's it's it's the it's the dragon with the gold problem. They have all this gold and they don't know what to do with it, and so they just squander it if they do anything with it at all. Well, the whole thing of Ultron, I mean, Ultron's one of the best villains that there ever has been, but they treated it so bad and this whole yeah one movie and a really bad movie too. I still like it only because of James Spater' Ultron.

The only way to watch James Spader's Ultron is to go watch that movie, you know what I mean, Like, it's the reality of it. There's it's not like you can go like, oh, I want to see Chris Evans's Captain America, so I can go watch CAP two and enjoy it there cap three. Like now, there's no other way to see James Spader's Ultron other than I think maybe an episode of what If. I think at this point, yeah, which is a great episode of what If? It is, Yeah, what a great sho that is, and that is showing you how crap fucking crazy it is to deal with Ultron.

You know that really starts, and like they they jump the gun so quickly when it comes to that. And I think they did a good job in the movie as far as him taking over the rest of like the Tony Iron Man suits and making those his drones rather than replicating himself, because that was always Ultron, always trying to be better, always trying to be better, making a better version of himself. I mean, Helly made the vision, but they kind of twisted that. I'm okay, by the way, with like differences between the comics and movies. They have more time in the comics, Like the comics don't cost anything.

You can literally have Punisher. Like it's the thing that's hard to explain to people that have never read comic books. And I know you read comic books, as did I Spider Man. The Punishers were hanging out doing stuff all the time, Like the Punisher got introduced in a Spider Man comic because the Punisher's trying to kill Spider Man initially, like, and it didn't cost any money additional to draw Spider Man and the Punisher together, But the moment we have to have a person playing the role, and then the expectation is the person's going to continue to play the role in subsequent things. We run into issue because you know, we have Punisher, who the fuck knows that he's ever gonna show up again.

We have Daredevil, we know he's showing up again. Remember how there's Moonnight in the NCU ah rather she Hulk remember that? I sure do. Yeah, it's it's again like once you once we go into well, we can expand it, but we need a person now. It's it's a cost, right Look at Blade.

I mean, Monsieur che la Ali never gonna play Blade at this point, Like you couldn't convince me event it's not gonna happen. But yet Blade is in comic books with Spider Man, and I believe this year's a big event in the comic books is a vampire thing that has to do with Blade. It was either this year last year. Like it's it's hard to watch these movies and not think to myself, if you're gonna do these big crossover things, it can't just be one movie, but then you have to commit to doing multiple things. And they don't, so is it They don't think the audience is smart enough and the audience's attention span is enough, or do they think that the audience is stupid and just I don't that the audience won't get invested over several movies, like look at the way people reacted to Endgame that was an Infinity War for that matter, Like Infinity War was Fanus' movie.

This should have been in a lot of ways, like a Red Hulk movie, and instead it's it's just a poor fact simile of Soldier with Red Hulk slapped on the last fifteen minutes. Yeah, the nods or lifts direct lifts from Winter Soldier were just a lot. You know, the moment when John Carlo Esposito is sined wider and I'm trying to look at boys the whole Serpent thing was that in the TV show because I barely remember the show and I don't think it was. So if you remember when they announced Captain America to the fake title of the movie was Captain America and the Serpent Society, And so that is them finally making good on that with this movie. Is them putting him in it for three scenes.

Give me a break. When were these all reshoots on top of everything else, Like they don't even feel like they exist in the same framework of a similar movie. The best part of this movie is almost the epilogue of the TV show, Like it's the stuff with I with with Carl Lumley, with Isaiah Bradley, Like it's when they go to the White House, Like some of that stuff is genuinely interesting. Most everything else is just again like Winter Soldier, but Diminishing returns well. And that's where like the blackness of the story actually comes through and you're like, oh, wow, Okay, this is great.

I'm so glad that they're bringing the Isaiah Bradley character into this. You know, the whole truth mini series that they had going, what was it, Red, White, and Black? I think it might have been the title of that. I mean, that was fantastic. And to see him and he's just like, yeah, they experimented on me for all these decades and that's why I'm not out there, you know, busting bad guys or anything, because the government fucked me over completely.

And you go into the back room of his gym and he's got you know, Jack Jones and all these other black athletes and stuff. I'm just like, yeah, this is great. I'm like, you know, like I want the poster of the three guys at the Olympics with the you know, the two guys with the fist race and everything. It's like, yeah, yeah, you get him. Ideah, this is fantastic.

But yeah, they just kind of drop that and then yeah, like you said it, just the scene with Sidewinder where he's blowing up the car, I'm like, okay, yeah, this is totally the Winter Soldier. There's another couple. The whole thing of having the secret facility Camp Echo, I think they call it. I'm like, oh, is this the moment when Toby Jones is going to show up on the computer screen and screen, No, it's this finally shows up and I'm like, oh cool. Tim Blake Nelson, I'm so glad that he's in this because I always wondered what happened with Samuel Stearns and also him getting the raw deal as well.

I mean, this whole movie is about the way that presidents abuse power, because he's also been abused by this president by Thunderbolt Ross where he's just like, hey man, you promised me i'd get out. You know. Even the thing where they're like, oh, we have the man in custody who created the abomination, I'm like. He did that on your orders Thunderbolt. Ross the credits of the movie, they say that that they have the person who did that in custody, so they spoil the like they spoil the twist of the movie in the beginning of the movie.

On top of everything else. She's exactly, Oh, I ruined the twist of this movie. And the advertising. They should not have advertised the Red Hulk at all. Not that.

And look, here's the thing. If you and I were sitting here and they had not advertised the Red Hulk at all, we would have gone into this movie going there is a more than zero percent chance that we see a hulk Harrison Ford in this movie. Mm hm. We didn't have to see it up until the movie, and yet they ruined it. And I don't think they trust the audience.

I don't think they trust the public anymore. I think that Disney and Marvel don't trust that people will just go see their movies. To see their movies, they have to see something they've never seen before. And a cgi Harrison Ford running around as a Hulk, as much as I've never seen it before. It is ultimately like that little piece of metal on a lure on a fishing lure it is just there solely to bring your eye in, but it serves no purpose other than to get you on the hook.

And once you're on the hook, it's too over. Like once you sit down the theater, they have your money, and these movies are not doing They're not holding their end of the bargain anymore, and they haven't really since since Infinity War and Endgame as far as I'm concerned, Like, I've had this conversation plenty of times now and we're going to have it again, Like I want these movies to get back to where they were, where it's like, this is a thing that people are invested in. This is a thing where when End Game in Infinity War came out, you were like, I'm going to see this and this is don't ruin this, this is the thing. I'm not saying we're all sitting and ruining these movies now, but when these are coming out three by a year, it's not as exciting, it's not as much of a thing.

What is this going to be bad so that Thunderbolts and Fantastic four can pick up the slack? I mean, okay, that's also shitty like in and of itself. Well, I have to say that when the idea of having a February release of a Marvel film, I think really started back with the Black Panther movie. And that was fantastic because you got the introduction to Black Panther in February, and I think it was you when they ended up doing the first Avengers the Infinity War, and I was just like, that was amazing. That was so smart to give us Black Panther then.

And then, you know, because we already saw a Black Panther in Civil War, so we knew that this character, but to really give him his focus and that was such a good movie to have, and then to bounce off of that into the Infinity War and I was just like, oh my god. And then when like when Black Panther turned to dust, spoilers for Infinity War turned to dust at the end of in Trinity War, there were people in the audits that we're just like no, oh no, and it's just like, wow, he really made such an impact on people that they were like upset that he was gone. I thought that was fantastic. I thought it was really smart, and I think that they were trying to cash in on that same goodwill by having another February release here, and I know they did it twenty twenty three with that piece of shit ant manned Quantumania, which might be one of the worst of these movies.

It's really time. It's a race to the bottom between that and like Love and Thunder, I think of this and right there, Widow, that's I enjoy Black Widow. I enjoy Sang She. I've seen that several times now. Nice appearance by Emil Blonski in there as the Abomination, where he's got like he's much more comic accurate in that than he was in the two thousand and eight film.

And I also liked his appearance in she Hulk as well, and it was really nice that it was Tim Roth coming into she Hulk. I thought that was fantastic. But yeah, this, oh, and yeah, to go back to the otherness of this as well, like when I mean, they pretty much tell us that something is going on with Ross and we know, as the audience because we've seen the trailers now, and like they're telling us, though in no uncertain terms, that something is wrong with him when he's on that I believe he's on a ship and suddenly we hear Stearns's voice in his ear piece, and I'm like, first off, I'm like, is everybody hearing this? There's no sort of like static and then he taps his ear or something, but he has Sterns' voice in his ear and he's basically egging him on and it's like let out the rage.

You know, he's basically the emperor at this point. You know, good feed into your anger, you know, all that kind of stuff. And he starts to potentially change. I'm like, oh, okay, so we're just going back to the Avengers. You're ripping off yourself like you've ripped off a Winter Soldier, which is probably my favorite of all the nice and then you're ripping off the Avengers as well, and I'm like, oh my gosh, guys, like, can you be a little bit more original with this?

And it's like there are yeah. They even mentioned at one point where Sam's like, uh oh, yeah, I had a friend who was controlled by trigger words. And that's the whole thing with Stern's playing the Mister Blue song is everybody's triggered. And I'm just like, how did he get into all these people's heads like so quickly? I guess must have talked with all of these guys or somehow like through his leader powers.

I don't know, but it's like there's a good movie in here someplace, because the whole thing of like the very first line of the movie is have you heard from my daughter? And it's this whole thing of like him wanting to reconnect with Betty. And then he starts to bring up the cherry blossoms, and then you have the Japanese Prime Minister and I'm like, oh, that's really cool. You were tying in the whole thing of like, you know, back in what was in nineteen twelve when Japan donated all of the cherry trees to Washington as a symbol of goodwill because of the help that we gave them the Russo Steino War or Japanese War. And it's just like, oh, well, that's really cool.

And he keeps talking about the cherry blossoms and hey, Betty, we can walk through the cherry blossoms. And this is not my observation, this is one that I got from the pitch meeting for this. I love Ryan George's pitch meetings, and he brought up the idea of why isn't it Betty who shows up at the end and talks him down, talks the Hulk down. Do you don't think there's a cut of this version of this movie that has it. There's a cut of this version.

There's a cut of this movie that has seth Rollins the wrestler in it that he talks about like they cut me out of the movie, like I was in it. I was on set. They cut me out. I am telling you that this movie again, I'm not saying it like verifiably, there were reshoots. That is a verified piece of information that has been well documented.

There were reshoots as recently a couple months ago with this fucking thing, like I I've got to assume that there's a version of this movie where she was going to come out at the end and go to some extent in a Black Widow esque direction with the interaction between her and Red Hulk, and instead we get again what feels like someone going, hey, did didn't did we need liv Tyler? Like was sheel mccaulshee for a reason? Like oh right, uh, we still got that raft set lying around, all right, let's just have her in that for like a minute, and it's it genuinely feels like did you see Exorcist Believer? No, there's a scene at the end of Exorcist Believer where it's like, is that you Reagan? And it's like there comes Reagan walking through the door and it's like, movie, come on, you can't.

It's like the last thirty seconds of the movie. This does the same thing, because liv Tyler should have been the main, like the main female protagonist to this movie. Oh, most like the fact that she's not in here, and we get Zosha Rockmore as Leyla Taylor, otherwise known as a character that they're not going to actually have in this movie as the character of sober. Yeah, no they don't, which, uh, interesting choice, Disney. I don't know what that's all about.

Yeah, I'm I'm kind of shocked that that that Live Tyler's in this movie at all mm hm, because if she's gonna be in it as if she's going to be in it, she should be in it more than she is. And if she's gonna be in it this little she shouldn't have been in it at all. I know. I was actually surprised that she showed up because they just had that like stock photo of her from the two thousand rat photo. Yeah, yes, exactly.

They just had that and then they had her voice at one point, and I'd love how she's like, oh, yeah, I should have called after the assassination attempt. I'm like, you think you think you should have called after the assassination attempt that was all over in national news, but no, you chose another time to call. I'm like, really, come on here, Yeah that was that was bad? They really and instead with the ending, it's you know, Sam's there, like, hey, mister president, you know, cal him down. Son's going down, big guy, that kind of thing, and then they he ends up punching him again and it turns into another fight and then how's it end?

Oh hey, mister president, you really need to calm down. And it's like, oh my god, we just did this five minutes ago. But now it works. Now he becomes little Harrison Ford, little old Harrison Forward with this, and Harrison Ford I just wonder sometimes I'm like, do you why are you still doing this? Are you doing it for the money?

Thank you? It just feels like he's not having a good time. Like I like Harrison Ford a lot, and I just kind of feel for him, and I'm just like, I wish you were having as much fun watching you, know, being you on screen as I do watching you on screen, because I think you're fantastic and I've been watching you since I was five years old and just really enjoy every single time you show up on screen. This is the same man who is Indiana Jones. I have to remind myself of a like, oh yeah, it's it for me.

Was the reason I wanted to watch this movie because to your point, I'm a huge fan of Harrison Ford, Indiana Jones made a large impact on me as a child. Han Solo. Similarly, Harrison Ford is an actor who if he's in something, it's probably going to be more interesting by having him in it because he's an interesting actor. This is this is a weird movie because we have a giant, eight foot tall cgi Harrison Ford as the whole on screen. We can never unsee that.

However, they do so little with it. It's like okay, yeah, it's okay, what the fuck? Like this is? It's such an interesting concept? Why do so little with it?

Like why waste? Why waste this opportunity with the Red Hulk? Because you know what Red Hulks are coming back? I mean, I might fucking eat my words, but I kind of feel confident because it took him seventeen years to bring back tim Blake Nelson seventeen years. And I'm sorry, I'm a huge Tim Blake Nelson fan.

I me too for him so much, and I you know, I was secretly hoping when I read somebody posted like this isn't that great of a Captain America movie, but it's a pretty good Hulk sequel, I was like, oh gosh, does that mean Tim Blake Nelson is coming back finally as Samuel Stearns the Leader. Like I've been so excited for this and he's barely in it, and he's barely visible, and when he does show up, I'm like, yeah, this is great, Like, you know, you are the one, you know, And I'm talking about having three villains in this movie, and basically, you know, there's Sidewinder is one, there's Sam Sterns as another, but then you've got the President as well. But then I like the idea of that sam Sterns created that monster, but he doesn't create him to cause destruction.

He basically creates him in order to embarrass himself and like to get called out for what a piece of shit he's been to all of these people over the years. Then he kind of gets away with it, like they end up putting them in the in the raft and everything. But I'm like, well, what's the fallout for America? Is that the next movie? But I mean, yeah, that's just seemed very strange.

You are very tidally wrapped up in that scene where it's like, we're glad you stepped down, mister, like I wanted to see the fallout. I don't know how to put this. We had the White House destroyed, and it's like, let me, let's let's let's let's take this step back, because we we've we've we've run to the end of the movie. We have at the end of the film, here'son Ford as the President of the United States, as the Red Hulk destroying the White House, crashing through the White House, smack through the White House, fighting Captain America on top of the White House. A couple things.

The sequence should have been way more awesome than it is because it's pretty boring. B I, this should have been Chris Evans fighting this Red Hulk. If we had anybody fighting the Red Hulk, it should been Chris Evans, and if we didn't have Chris Evans, it should have been the Hulk fighting the Red Hulk. Why is it Captain America as Anthony Mackie fighting the Red Hulk, because again, the Hulk's still round. We know he's still around.

And then on top of everything else, this is the last fifteen minutes of the movie. This should have been like a half an hour thing. This should have been an extended sequence, and yet it feels like such an afterthought, and all of it should have been way more bombastic and explosive than it is. But I guess the Hulk jumping past the Washington Monument and destroying it is just not exciting. Yeah, we're so Jade and his CGI viewers that that's not exciting anymore.

Because we've talked a lot about a lot of things, but we haven't talked about the Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which to me was show. Yes, the show. The idea of a TV show Falcon and Winter Soldier kind of worked for me because those characters aren't big enough to support a movie for me, and it was more like this almost like Buddy Cop uneasy relationship between those two characters and everything and I was like, their their whole thing. I think that was in which one was that was that Civil War where it was like, you know, can you move the seat back? No, I can't like those kind of things.

Like I enjoyed that whole banter that they have, and I enjoyed it in the TV show as well, you know, the whole thing with them And who's the what was the name of the villain in that one, Zo Zemo? Yes, he comes back in the TV show. Yeah, Yeah, he's very much in this TV show. And I thought that he was really good there. But then you you know, it's like there's not enough of them for a movie, and just also the whole idea of like you know, and they bring it up in here, and they even had that line towards the end, like you know, Bucky was full of shit.

I should have taken the sir kind of thing because it's like, yeah, you're a regular dude, Like, no offense to you, Anthony Mackie, but to the character of Falcon, he's a regular dude, not enhanced whatsoever, never has been, and he's very much like Hawkeye Black Widow where they can do these amazing things, but this guy's getting fucking hammered by the Hulk, And yeah, he's got the new vibranium wings and everything, and he's got the vibranium shield, but this guy's insides are probably jelly like just to take that abuse, and I'm like, how are you even doing this? You know, it's just not to again be like a little kid who's just like, oh, well, what happens if the Hulk fights Galactus? Those kind of things.

But it's like you always have to think to yourself, like what is this guy's powers? Like what can he do? He just he's really good with that suit Man, which I guess is kind of iron Man, but iron Man's got a lot more padding and a lot more suit to cover him than Sam does. I think about the line from Avengers take Away the Suit and what are you billionaire of Playboy philanthropist? Like did you is this not the fucking same MCU where you you can't just it's it's hard to have just a guy as the It's hard to have just a guy as the guy, right, Like you know, I think when I think about the MCU, I think about wrestling and like the people that are always in charge in wrestling or the or the the guys that are the ones that everybody think of are always bigger than life, and Anthony Mackie, it could could be that, and I like him as Captain America.

But the role of Captain America is so much bigger than life, than any like, than any one person could step into. I think it's almost unfortunate to call him Captain America because it again like it feels just like they're trying to hang a lantern on the fact that we all know that there was another Captain America. And I'm not saying we need another Captain America, but do we like I like that Anthony Mackie is Captain America. I like that a black man is Captain America. I do like that.

I don't think that this movie likes that. I don't think that this movie pays attention to it enough. The TV show tried to The TV Show attempted to make sure that we understood how kind of much of maybe not a burden he feels, but he definitely feels that odd with the fact that Captain America is supposed to represent the country. And yet I'm sure there are plenty I'm sure I know that there are plenty of African Americans and black people in this country who do not feel represented by the way this country has treated them and character right there right exactly. But it's like hmm, afterthought, like hmmm, we'll talk about it, but then put him in jail the rest of the movie and just have them doing a Winter Soldier like pantomime, like Punch and Judy act, like let's have these two reenact like, you know, Winter Soldier.

It's like, this is four hundred million dollars to do this, like no creativity. The only creative idea is the Red Hulk at the end of the movie. And even then we're complaining about them not going back to the thing we expected them to do with it, because if they had done these Sons going down Big Fellow thing, we might have No. I don't think we would have complained about that, because that would have made perfect sense within the framework of the movie to have liv Tyler come back. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, and maybe to make him seem larger than life.

That's why they cast Shara Hassen there as Ruth bat Sarah, because lady's only like five foot two. She is so tiny, and there's shouts of her and Bucky and Cap and I'm just like, oh my god, she barely even comes up to like their nipples, you know. Yeah, I actually I liked her performance. I liked her a lot. Yeah I did too.

I just kind of wish you'd had more to do. And like you were saying, like, as far as a lead female character, I don't think this movie has one, because she's barely in this. She does some good things, you know, and I like that she's very very smart and you know, really helped save especially Isaiah. But it's just like, yeah, give me a little bit more here, you know, give me something more of her at the end or something. But can't why introduce a character who is so obviously a she's a Jewish superhero, yeah exactly, But they're not allowing that to be the character, right, No?

No, I mean they say now that she was in the Red Room or whatever, the whole training thing for black widows, and I'm like, okay, well, then be a black widow, like show up and kick some mass at the end. You know, I was just saying that Natasha will go to toe with the Hulk even though she's not powered. Where was sober here? You know? But yeah, just an Israeli accent.

Yeah, they should have gal Gado in this movie, right, everything's been on Galgado, the greatest, the greatest of the Israeli actresses, gal Gado. I mean, I was already having a hard time because of Sam Stearns and his head. I was glad that they didn't make his head bigger because I was just like, oh, he's starting to look like Hector Hammond from the green Land movie. But oh god, that's the thing we want to remind people of is a awful DC movie. D C, d C.

What was that, DCEU. What were they calling that? Yeah, yeah, du yeah that's what it was. Thank god, we don't have to worry about that anymore. Good lord.

Yeah, now it's just the DCEU now, And you know what, that's the thing, you know. I actually maybe I'm gonna give James Gun an opportunity to to change my opinion on DC movies, because Marvel definitely not doing much here like this. This is not my observation, but this is an observation worth making. Martin Scorsese complained about these movies being theme park rides. I think that this may be that this is very soulless.

This feels very corporatety. This feels like a decision made with a bunch of people at a table, everybody going, well, we can't have it be too black now, because then that'll offend and isolate and you know, make people in Middle America not feel good, so they're not and it's like, you know, Black Panther was a pretty fucking black movie. I watch that movie at least once a year to remind myself that that is a very well made MCU movie, almost almost to the detriment of the movie, that it's an MCU movie, because Ryan Coogler elevated a lot of the MCU tropes a lot further than anybody else has, even if at the end of the movie it's a yellow suited guy fighting a purple suited guy in a CGI background, which I guess they were always going to because their MCU movies.

But for fuck's sake, the soundtrack for that movie was performed at the Super Bowl this year. Kendrick performed a song from that film this year at the Super Bowl, which means that movie made a rather large impact on black culture. This movie, which should have been making a similar impact because, like you mentioned, February everybody. It doesn't want to even embrace the fact that half of the cast is black. Gian Carlo Esposito, Carl Lundley and Matt Anthony Mackie are three of your leads effectively in a MCU film, the largest franchise of franchise films to come out, get out to hear movie, come on.

Well, and then you have a black director as well. But rightwa is a strange director choice for this for me because like he and all of the screenwriters, like, I don't think any of them had written any other superheroes before this. I think one had had worked on the Falcon and Winter Soldier TV show, but that was it. And then this guy. I'm sorry, but it's gonna take me a long time to forgive this director for the Cloverfield Paradox, one of the.

Great Bain switches of a little Oh God, yeah, what a miserable ass movie. There's a new Cloverfield movie that's coming out right after the super. Bowl, Shadow released bro Shadow released movies, and the movie was bad. Oh it was so bad, so bad. And I've watched it since.

This is not like an opinion that you know when the movie came out, and I have watched it since I watched it like the last couple of years. Still completely just a mess from the start to the finish, all the way down. The movie's a mess because it just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, when I saw his name attached, this was like why well? And also to talk about ripping off themselves and other superhero films that the end of this movie, the thing that finally triggers the President to turn into the Hulk, to actually show his true colors, is a recording of a phone call that they had.

And I'm just sitting there going, I'm gonna play this town like a harp from an l I'm like, this is Batman returns right here, like the the whole thing of the Penguin, like, you know, having goods on the mayor and everything and become one running for mayor and having Max Shrek behind him and all that stuff. I was just like, so this is it. You get mad at this phone call? Okay? Yeah, but you know, at least we don't have somebody who's unhinged in the White House now, so we're safe from any sort of violent attacks or any sort of thing like that.

So there's no Hoka. He's not Ok, he's an orange joke. He's a big bulky hockey. He's orange and hookie. I mean, the whole thing of like this is coming out in February of twenty twenty four, and yeah, you're talking about Black History Month and all this, and it's just like, yeah, I don't think Black History Month is going to be a thing next year.

I wouldn't be surprised if Juneteenth gets repealed this year. It's just it's getting that bad. And yeah, I know they didn't make this when things were starting to turn to shit, but they kind of did make this when things were turning to shit, and they really with those reshoots, they could have really piled it on here. And I'm curious about your guy. You said it was a wrestler.

I'm curious if here's another one of the not sidewinders the serpents. Oh yeah, yeah, like yeah, oh, I believe that he was cut out of the beginning of the film is the overwhelming kind of theory. And he's talking about it long fight, long fight at the beginning, almost as long as the air fight, the dog fight that's going on. I'm just like, gosh, this is taken forever and it's just shot so confusingly. I'm just like, who's where and when?

And we got how many planes are up there? Plus two guys flying are okay? Yeah, Like they could have really handled that a lot better. Yeah there there, he's Julius Ona has known jj Abrams when it comes to shooting vehicular action, cause that you know what, like for all of jj abrams problems like those Star Trek movies had pretty good like vehicular combat. And if you have a character who's flying around in his wingsuit, that's effectively a human airplane, and you need to have someone who can shoot that action effectively or don't have it in your movie.

And yeah, I was gonna say that's the other thing about this movie that is unfortunate. Not great action set pieces either, which is I mean, in a lot of ways, like the Marvel movies are and this is me drawing a gaming comparison, The Marvel movies are like Call of Duty at this point. I don't go into it expecting high brow entertainment. I expect some bombbass, some pomp, a little bit of circumstance, but like these things know what they are like in a lot of ways, this movie knew what people were expecting from it, and I don't think it lived up to the expectations of being even an action movie. And again, it's a spy thing too.

It's like a spy thriller because it has to be Winter Soldier because it's Captain America, though it doesn't have to be Like why do that again? Like why not why not Soldier out and forge your own path? No pun intended as its own thing, Cause if you're gonna do, you know, half half of Winter Soldier and then half of something else entirely, just cut the half a Winter Soldier out and don't have Sebastian stand in your movie either, because don't remind me that there was a point where it could have just been Sebastian and Anthony Macki together, which again feels like a missed opportunity that that wasn't just this movie. On top of everything else, he's gonna be a politician now, guy was brainwashed?

Yeah, how are they gonna get past all the bad press? I don't know. Apparently they couldn't let him be Captain America because he was brainwashed, So he's allowed to be a fucking politician. Brainwashed? What is that saying about the world that they live in.

My god. I mean, yeah, he did help during the Infinity Wars and everything, and I can't remember if he did he disappeared during the Snap. I don't think he did, because otherwise. It would either he got snapped away yet. Oh okay, so then the head carry around that stupid arm for five years un till he came back.

I guess so nor he disappeared with the arm. No, the arm is not part of him. It's not that's Oh that's a whole thing. Oh wow, I wouldn't think about it. Did that?

Are we wait? Is that right? That has to be right. I distinctly remember him dying in I distinctly remember Bucky dying in the Snap. Yeah, because it's almost like everybody had somebody that they lost.

I mean, of course, the most telling one was the whole thing with Spider Man. For you, Iron, he is restored to life. Yeah, okay, he is the first person in Wakanda to die. That's right. He doesn't feel right, and then okay.

His arm does disappear with him. Mike Cheese, that's crazy. That's so weird that it would. Yeah, but when again, all. Their clothes disappear and stuff so I guess, like their whole body, the being itself, So I guess that's part of his being.

Like god, Spider Man is just naked somewhere. Yeah, well just feels like good. It's like a suit would just be a suit, I guess. But the you know, that's even part of this movie for a little while too. It's the whole thing of him and the younger guy, the new Falcon.

I'm just like, okay, well, this is Iron Man and Spider Man, Like that's how this relationship feels. With the teasing and all that kind of stuff. I'm like, okay, again, you're you're telling me about certain other things that you know. I was even thinking of another I was thinking of, was it the best of the x Men movie of not counting Logan, but the best x Men movie where it was Yeah, that was the second one, right where Nightcrawler breaks into the White House, and I just was thing of that movie while we're in the White House here and just seeing that tiny, tiny, tiny oval office, which I was surprised at how small that was. And then when Harrison Ford or sorry Thunderbolt Ross brings up the idea of re starting the Avengers, I'm just like, who would you get?

Who would you put on this? And I know that they're leaning towards like a young Avengers with all of these kids like Hawkeyes, Mentee and some of these other you know, like the two too, Wanda's two imaginary kids who are now real at least one of them is. And then there's also hints of like the Thunderbolts, but the Thunderbolts. Here's how memorable the Thunderbolts are. We're watching the trailer for it, and Andy it's just like, Okay, well I recognize Florence Pugh and I recognize Sebastian stand but.

You know. Herber. She knows it was David Herber. But then she's just like, who are the rest of these? Russell?

I go, yeah, that's why at Russell She's like, well, what I was he? And I was like, here's in Falcon in the winter, so who was he? Like n hey like fake captain? Well, I forget what he was. He was like US agent, yeah, us agent, yeah, yeah, John Walker.

But then like she barely remembered ghost barely remember. And then she was like and I kept bringing up task Master. She's like, who's task Master? Except like bro Black Widow, Black Widow Han like you've seen Black Widow. Oh yeah, the girl with the fucked up face.

I'm like, yes, exactly. I am wondering if this is going to be the worst, because I'm we're gonna cover all three everybody, because that's just the way we are, That's the way we were, That's just the way we were built, uh, because we fucking hate ourselves. Also, because here's the other thing, what is this now, Like the fifth fucking superhero thing we've watched together in like a row, is what it feels like, for fuck's sake, man like Craven and this and then Deadpool and Wolverine last year, like we cover Venom, Like everything that's new feels like a superhero thing. And it's so because none of them have been very good. If it's not that it's a legacy sequel, because we also talk about Beetle Juice spieedle Juice.

Because half you know, it was Yeah, those are again those things end up kind of being more okay than this. God I wish for Beetle Juice spiedle Juice. Jesus, at least that movie was halfway charming. This this movie doesn't even want to be charming. This movie just I won't say it almost feels like it's throwing its hands up and giving up immediately.

But in a lot of ways, by copying Winter Soldier, it almost does feel like it's just kind of throwing its hands up and saying, we don't know what to do, so we'll just do the greatest hits of Captain America. Yeah, what a shame. It is a shame because I really think Anathy macke deserved better. Oh my god, such a good actor. Yeah, June Carlo Esposito deserves to be in a movie for more than three scenes.

Same with Carl Lumbley, same with every actor in this movie, really, or you even cut out of your goddamn film like seth Rollins, or having your role diminished like Live Tyler. I just feel so bad for John Carlos. I'm glad for his bank account now. But he has been playing this mysterious other asshole type guy that shows up in multiple things, like he showed up as Darth whoever the hell in The Mandalorian and then of course his role in the Boys, where he's basically doing the same thing. I'm just like, oh my god, Like you can do other things, Gihn, Carlo Esposito, You don't need to be this complete asshole like Mayor Cicero and Megalopolis is just like, please just do something else.

You can do other things, man, Gideon, that's what his. Name mof Gideon. Wow, Yeah, good pull God. Yeah. I don't Yeah, you're right, I don't feel bad for his bank account, but in terms of critically kind of just feels like a waste of time.

Yeah. I read a news story the other day on IOW nine and that they were saying that at one point, because we've got the whole thing of Sam Stearn's at the end with that useless. Useless though, because it's setting up everything else. Mike, you know that as well as I. Do, because he just goes the others are coming, because that's very very specific.

Yes, yes, the others. So that could be anybody that you wanted to be. So apparently there were two things. One was that Julius Onis said that it might have been the Illuminati, which is that for me, the Illuminati are Reid Richards, Stephen Strange, Tony Stark, and Steve Rogers, and those are the guys going back to Planet Hulk. They're the ones that shot Hulk into space.

So I'm like, okay, those are the Illuminati, but now they're calling that big council that showed up in Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness with Charles Xavier and Thunderbolt. Oh sorry, I said Steve Rogers. I meant Thunderbolt. Sorry about that. Thunderbolt is part of that Illuminati, and then thunder Boldest part of that Doctor Strange illuminati as well.

So it's like wet Ham, Thunderbolt, Monica, Rambo, Monica. Rambo Haley atwell as Captain America. Oh that's right, Britain. Yeah, Captain America, yea, Captain whatever the fu. Yeah, yeah, So it's like all of those.

And then there's another claim that it would have been a group of heroes from other worlds, like the multi verse version of them, kind of like again going back to what If, Remember there was that I can't remember which episode of What If it was, where it was all of those different versions of heroes all coming together, and I think again, yeah, that was that was also your Captain Britain coming in there as well. She was the best part of that. I mean you started off the series with her and you ended the that season with her, she's fucking phenomenal. But yeah, so again two other things. The others, you know what the others are, right, The others is fucking Doctor Doom I.

Know, and well one guy is now the others I don't know. Well, the others, I'm so the others. The others are either Doctor Doom and whatever he's bringing, or maybe the Fantastic Four. But the Fantastic Four have a Galactus in that movie. Ralph Thenison plays Galactus in the movie, so we know he's gonna be there.

So I don't know. I'm just glad it's not a big cloud, which again. One movie for galactis really. Yeah, well, I mean the again, the Big Cloud, both Fantastic Four and that stupid fucking Green Lantern movie. Again, that was another big fucking cloud.

Space turn Green Lantern was big Space. Trdio, Oh good board. I you know, I think for me, this Captain America movie is better than I expected it to be. But again, I can't in good content till some'mone to go see it, because it does feel like a movie TV show, like a TV movie in a lot of ways, like it feels like the closest we could get to a Marble TV movie, like if this had you know what, if this movie had come out during the pandemic, they would have put it on streaming and nobody would have said it fucking word is more and what this is like. That's probably a better way to compare it now is would this have come out on streaming during the pandemic?

Yes, this would have been dumped on streaming during the pandemic, just like Black Widow was. It reminds me of Black Widow. Black Widow is a much more charming movie. I think Black Widow will get reappraised later on as being a little bit better than people expected, and I think that's because the pandemic. Pandemic didn't help that movie.

That movie didn't helt that movie because a lot of that movie's previs like prevised to hell. But I still enjoyed it. Like Black Widow is a better movie, and it is a better spy thriller than this movie is, because this movie's also trying to do some of the spy thriller stuff, and that movie Black Widow's not doing any of the Hulk stuff, which is unequivocally this movie's weakest part, because it feels the most tacked on. Well, the thing about the Black Widow movie, I mean, you barely remember who the villain was in that movie, you know, but you remember. What the fuck the dude from uh not Harry Potter, that guy from Indiana Jones, Ray Winston, Yeah.

Ray Winstone. But really, that whole movie is all about the family relationship. It's all about what's going on between Natasha and her a strange sister and parents and just that whole thing, you know. And I think that's why that movie succeeds is because of those characters and that family relationship. It's almost like they weren't able to give Sam.

But I think if they had really stuck more with like Kim and his new protege and then Isaiah Bradley and somehow worked around them, but it just feels like they stepped in so many other holes along the way. I honestly think if it had been just the three of them together on screen, this would have been a great movie. Like, yeah, the two young bucks and the old guy. Yeah, oh my god. Yes, that scene with them in the car is the best part of this entire movie.

And everybody who made this movie probably realizes it too, because that's the moment where like those scenes between the three of them is when the movie really sings, like it's really hitting a high note. It leaves a very high water mark that the movie never gets back to. That's why I think we both said it, like the first act of this movie is the best that this movie ever gets. Beyond that, the second act is just Winter Soldier, and then the third act is not good. The third act is the worst part of this movie, without a doubt, and that is the Red Hulk part.

Like the Red Hulk part is not It's not that it's not entertaining. It's just inconsequential. Maybe I'll eat my words, Thunderbolts will come out and he'll be in the movie. I just don't see it, Harrison Ford. It doesn't strike me as he's coming back for anything.

Maybe he will. I guess they don't really ever need him again. Red Hulk could just show up without him. It's like an Indiana Jones video game thing, just have. I mean, he doesn't even talk anyways.

You have a cgi Harrison Ford running around. It's no Joe fix It or anything. Yeah, it doesn't speak English. Yeah, just runs around. I mean, I guess I guess they have the best of all.

But but then did they ever need to recast him? They could have just had William Hurt turn into Red Hulk off screen, have a William Hurt Red Hulk running around. And I would that have been offensive to people to have William Hurt's visage on a CGI Red Hulk running around? I don't know. I mean, I still say they should have got Sam Elliott back.

That would have been way better. You know, the bear sometimes the bear gets you whatever the fuck he says in the. Big Eat the bar sometimes that bar. Yeah, can you imagine the Hulk saying that? Can you imagine the whole Oh?

I guess he would have had wouldn't have even had to have ad That's the other thing they took away. The mustache. Fuck you Red Hulk needs a mustache, assholes, you cowards, cowards. The Red Hulk had a mustache in the comics. Wasn't all the time, but he did have a mustache.

Well, hell, I mean, Betty turns into this weird harpie creature in the comics. I would have liked to have seen that too. There, marvel Is mcu is less afraid or more afraid than Sony is because in that Sony Venom movie we got Shivan like in the first goddamn movie. But yeah, this movie is just a lot of safe choices and the MCU not having a good time right now. This movie had a second weekend drop off pretty pretty bad and not not something that the MCU, not something that Disney wants to see, not something that they're used to with their movies not being financially successful and making lots of money.

They're not used to this, and they need to turn it around, like they need to recapitalize on the interest and goodwill that they got out of that Robert Towny Junior announcement last year, because I think they've lost a lot of it, Like Deadpool Wolverine, they've clearly lost a lot because this movie's second weekend did not hit as well as the first weekend, and it had a substantial and noticeable drop off in the second weekend. Yeah, I mean, you're very right as far as maybe this should have just landed on streaming. You know, I think it's way better than that piece of shit Section thirty one movie that just dropped out streaming, which was supposed to be a movie that's supposed to be a TV show and and ended up being a TV movie that just felt like a really shitty pilot for a TV show.

I mean, this feels like in a lot of ways again a TV movie, like if you said it yourself, Like the characters are from a TV show, like in a lot of ways, like they were given the most time in a TV show. This is a sequel to that TV show because it's a streaming TV show. What they'ren't streaming movies like, I don't, I don't know, I know what it is. It's a compensation thing. Like it's all about how they're compensated.

I'm not saying actors shouldn't be compensated, but if we can't figure out how to compensate them through the streaming, like through streaming, then there there needs to be better I mean again, I'm preaching to the choir here. I'm sure everybody in the industry is like, yeah, no shit, asshole. But I just sometimes some of these movies don't necessarily need to come out in theaters, is what I'm saying. And this is one of those movies. And given how expensive it is to see movies now, I can't in good conscience even say, like, I think, if you're gonna go see a Marvel movie this year, it might have to be Fantastic for because that might be the one that's of the most consequence.

I feel like, again just to get ahead of ourselves a little bit, but to close this episode out Thunderbolts, I don't know how much consequence that movie's gonna end up having, but Fantastic Four almost has to have consequence to it, like it's being set up to be the most consequential of the three movies. So I'm wondering if at the end of our Thunderbolts review we're not gonna go a kind of feels like Captain America where it's rather inconsequential. Maybe there will be some big surprise at the end of Thunderbolts. There have been speculations that Thunderbolts has some sort of who is setting this up? And why is all this happening?

Is one of the big answers, right, like, is it Norman Osborne? Is it? You know? Who could be Willhelm Dafoe. I don't know.

We've been seeing that Julie Luis dreyfit this character for years. Now, right right, Yeah, So I don't know. But Fantastic Four we know will be of consequence because they're gonna be part of Avengers dooms Day because Doctor Doom is their red skull. And it's been made clear to us that Tony Stark, Tony Stark's actor Robert Donney Junior's playing Doctor Doom. We don't know how or through which vehicle he will become Doctor Doom, or if we'll see him become Doctor doomer if he just shows up his Doctor Doom.

But I feel like the needle's gonna be moved more and fantastic more than in any of these other movies. And boy, it's really disappointing that this movie more or less reaffirms the fact that, yeah, it doesn't really need to exist, and if it does, it doesn't need to be a big budget release. Like imagine if this was a TV show. Imagine if this was just a TV mini series, Like why did they not just do that? They already did it once Le's He Do It Again?

Could have been the second season? Yeah, yeah, really could have. Yeah, in that way too, you could have introduced the whole idea of Thunderbolt Ross and his ascension to power and just all of the problems he's ever had with the Avengers and with Sam and really stretched that storyline out and really started to tease the whole thing of him being this you know that he has something to hide. I mean he does talk about like having to lose the mustache, and there's some line here where it's just like if they knew, you know, like I have nothing to hide, I think is what he was saying. And there's even like the whole idea of like was the president compromise And you might think, you might think, if you hadn't seen the trailer, that maybe Stearns had something on Thunderbolt Ross and that he was going to you know, use him as a pawn for something, and the whole thing of like, oh, well, maybe he you know, if they start playing that mister Blue song, he's going to suddenly turn into a Manchurion candidate.

That could have been something that would have been a really nice red herring. But instead just having that phone call and having him start to hulk out on the ship and stuff, I'm like, don't even do that, don't do that thing. Just keep this a secret. But they had to let it out, like let it out in the trailers, and they let it out in the movie way too early as well. And the only thing I can see that this movie is going to have consequence on is that now suddenly I guess, oh fuck, don't even ask me what, sirce whatever the mean character from Eternals was, I guess when she turned the celestial into metal, that she somehow turned him into adamantium.

Because that's the only thing from here is that we now have adimantium, which now can lead us. And my wife's like, well, how did Wolverine get his hands on that or claws? And I was like, well, Striker works for the government, and I get you know, I guess maybe the it must have been the US government, but I always think it's the Canadian government government just because Logans, yeah, just because of Logan being. Can But it takes place at that lake. Yeah, okay, right yeah, And so I'm like, well, you know, Striker's part of the whole mechanism.

He can get his hands on this stuff. And again, they barely talk about the adamantium. They're just like, yeah, stuff for the vibranium, ha, you know, And like it becomes the mcguffin of this movie. And I was like, no, no, that's going to become huge, like Adamantium fuels this universe. Like for me, vibranium was the new thing when they introduced it into the marvel you know, cinematic universe.

I was like, I guess I heard of that in Atomics, but I really heard about ante antim and I thought that at America's shield was made out of antim antium, and that's where of course Wolverine's bones are filled with that. So I'm like, that that is our entree into the X Men again. I mean, we had beast at the end of the Marvels, and now we've got adamantium. Okay, so that that is the thing. You're right, and I guess we should have mentioned it.

But at the same time, you know what it reminds me of to go back to the Ultron You you mentioned it before, and I feel like we're just piling on this movie, and you know, we tend to not be super negative, but with a lot of new stuff, it's hard to be super positive because again, it just doesn't feel like it's being well thought out and well made. So I mean, again, I feel like if you listen to this You're like, these guys are being overly negative. It's like, well, again, like go watch the movie. It's not our fault that the movie is doing this and sitting and spinning its wheels. But I think yet, God, just to your to your point before with Ultron.

There in Ultron, that's where they mentioned Wakanda and then you mentioned Ulysses claw out of hand, and then they and then it's like, well, we'll get back to this. That's what it feels like with audam Antium. It's like one line essentially, one or two lines, like we found it adam antium. It's strong, stronger than vibranium. Okay, yeah, and that's when we needed somebody.

Maybe maybe that's your end scene is somebody coming to the new president and saying, you know, mister president, I know you were asking for ideas of what we can use by adam antium for well, let me tell you about this idea I have called Project X or Weapon x R. You know. There you go, I what have it been to on the nose to do that? Though I do wish that I wasn't smarter than these movies. That's but that's the thing, like you're not because the movie knows that you know what adamantium is, because otherwise they wouldn't have mentioned, Like they know that the audience is smart enough to know what out of antium, and that's the problem.

So they know the audience isn't dumb, So why are why aren't they assuming that the audience is just smart? I don't get it. Like you mentioned adam antium, then, like you said, go into it, do something with it. Don't just go adamantium, wakanda vibranium, like, don't hang a lantern. Please go more into detail, like give us, give us something more than just the setup.

Eventually, because that was kayang eventually, Oh boy, fucking christ Vet, your goddamn actors marvel well that and just. The way he was introduced at the end of that first season a Loki, where it's just like. This is a big deal, don't you get it? This is the most this is the most boring thing I've ever seen. It was it was a unfortunate thing to happen that your actor is not a great person.

And maybe that's why these movies have all suffered. But it's partially the reason some of the things have suffered. It's not the reason a lot of these things have been better this These have been the same issues that we've been talking about with a lot of new film, which is just morally bankrupt or not morally bankrupt, but creatively bankrupt filmmaking. And I don't know who these films are being made for anymore, because it doesn't feel like they're being made for me and you, because to your point, we're not that smart a comic book readers, like I haven't really picked up a comic book in years other than to go reequate myself with stuff to watch an MCU movie or to talk about it. But I'm not sitting and reading Marvel every week.

And I know there are plenty of people that are. Those are the people that these movies are alienating more than us. They're the ones who are looking at these movies and going why would I even be involved? Like these movies are being made for the mainstream, but the mainstream knows what Adam and TM is. You're gonna mention it in your movie.

Come on, Like Vibranium Wakanda may be a little bit more of a stretch, but Adam Antium, guys, come on, and it's just being mentioned kind of throw away by Harrison Ford. Really so weird, yeaher very curious to see where we go from here. I mean, I'll be there first weekend for Thunderbolts. Hopefully the power stays on. It will be closer to the summer, so no snow hanging out on the lines.

I hope. Oh is that what it was? I think so, I think the power line snapped. Ah. It was so weird what was on and what wasn't at the movie theater, Like I you know, there's an emergency light that came on in the theater.

Okay, my chair, like you know, you have the little controls and stuff. The chair Mine wouldn't go down, but the guy at the end of the aisle said that his did. So I was like, oh, well, that's weird. And then I go in the bathroom and you know, like the little magic eye for the urinal like that was still working. I'm like, of all the useless power things right now, like all of the auto flushers.

Fucks this ourcase? Still, you know, in a universe where EMPs have happened, you can still piss. You can piss, but you can't draw your hands because those dryers were not on the same circuit, So fuck you. I will go and see Fantastic four. It in the field.

I'm not sure Thunderbolts is gonna get me out of my house because again, unfortunately, as much as I love Florence Pugh, I just don't see it having a long term consequence on the storytelling of the MCU. And right now I want to see what the broad strokes are because we're bareling towards Avengers and that's like broad strokes the movie. And man, I'm there's so much concern here from me because I'm just like, if this is what we're leading into the Avengers with the lead into the last Avenger stuff was pretty strong the lead into these Avengers movies, what in God's nigh are we gonna get? Because I know with the King Dynasty, they were like, we're gonna bring back Nick Cage as Johnny wasn't Johnny storm as whatever the hell is name is, the ghost writer, Toby maguire was gonna come back as Spider.

They were gonna like really cast the net wide for the multiverse of it all, and they very well still probably are gonna They're going to I know they will. They could do that so easily though, for Secret Wars when they find to get to that, because they could have the Beyond or just say like, I'm grabbing the best heroes from all of these different universes rather than you know, like somehow doing some sort of multiverse thing when we were just finely getting done with the multiverse shit. But it's coming back in a big way. Baby. But the Fantastic Four movie, they're in a multiverse.

That's the only way, right, Like that, that is they've already more or less spoiled that that movie doesn't take place on Earth sixty sixty six because unless the Fantastic Four, I wish six one six, I wish that the Fantastic Four were part of this to begin with, because this is too big of a ret con at this point, Galactus, this so Fantastic Four end up in our MCU somehow clearly, I mean again, like, that's not me spoiling it. That's them showing us the mechanism that that that we're gonna be working with here. It's almost like Infinity War. We knew it was gonna have time travel in it. Like there's no way to fix it otherwise.

They've made it very clear going into the movie, like it has to be time travel, so Fantastic four has to be multiverse hopping or or okay, which is I know it. Scares me too because there are one, two, three, four, five, six seven writers on that, and it's like, man, that's not even counting you know, Kirby and that did go for that one that was Lee and Kirby, wasn't it. Yeah? I did that one. Yeah, but it's like, yeah, my guys, there's a lot of writers on that.

There are a lot of writers on this as well. And there's a lot of writers on Thunderbolts too. It's like, okay, there's one two, Oh, I guess just three poor Legion Lee song Jin's name was breaking, so I thought it was two people at first. So only three writers on that, So we'll see how that one goes well. And Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret War are being written by half of the writing team of Infinity War an Endgame, so I don't know, maybe Doomsday, you know what Doomsday.

They're just gonna Oh god, I'm calling it now, Okay, can I call it now? It's just gonna be it. It's just gonna be Infinity for it's gonna be Doctor Doom's movie, right, like it's gonna be oh my god, it's gonna be a Robert Downey junior thing. The whole movie, right, the whole movie. Whole movie is just gonna be a Robert Downey junior thing.

Do you think it's gonna be him as both Iron Man and Doctor Doom, like him fighting himself? I so, okay, And then he can make remarks about his outfits. You know, green is not your color. So here is my prediction. And this is a me predicting this, and maybe I'll be right, maybe I'll be wrong, but this is kind of my theory.

Okay, print this, put it in a box and send it to the future version of myself and see how right I am. Doctor Doom in this movie and in this universe is just gonna be Tony Stark. Doctor Dewis is gonna be Tony Like he's literally Tony Stark, like literally Tony Stark, Like it's just another multiverse version of Tony Stark. That's a bad guy, like I mean, because ton Duom is a rich fucking guy, like Doctor Duom is just inverse of Tony Stark. Like, yeah, well, Tony Stark, he created Ultra.

You know, we forget about that stuff. Like in this universe he created Ultron, he wanted to what was it, wrap the Earth in a suit of armor, right right right, and he was essentially the bad guy for good reasons kind of in Civil War. So he really this is not that big of a stretch of the imagination that, yeah, there's another Tony Stark, had he just gone a little bit more to one side or the other, would just walk right into Doctor Doom's shoes. Like the whole thing of him wearing a mask is going to be because of a scar in his face and this incredible vanity that he has. Maybe it is I don't know, but I think it's just going to be more like, oh, I need face protection or something like that, and then that's going to be the big reveal when he takes off that mask.

Or maybe they don't know that it's to start, right, I mean literally, what if it's just like that universe doesn't realize that the big villain is Tony Stark, that the like billionaire philanthropist is actually a villain too, Like you have Batman as Batman, like Bruce Wayne as Batman. Could a rich guy not just I mean, look, Lex Luthor is a villain, but he's also super rich and everybody knows who he is. But he's also a villain. So why that's that's what it's gonna be, if you ask me. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they're gonna do something more creative than that.

But when I saw that they were casting Robert Downey Junror, my mind goes to invers of Iron Man, and you've got doctor Duke in a lot of ways, and if you want someone to move the needle, and the needle's not being moved anymore. Bringing Robert Downey Junior back pretty big thing to do. They got a big pop, as they would say in the wrestling industry from that sustained though I don't know. I can just hear RDJ ripping on the name selection. You know, doctor Doom.

It's it's a little too on the nose or whatever. And like my alias was Victor von Doom, and then I went with doctor Doom. Nobody could tell that it was me or something, you know, like it never made sense, like your name is von Doom and now you're doctor Doom. Okay, Yeah, I didn't go to Doom medical school for four years just to be called mister Doom thank you very much. I would I want, I want there to be some fun with where they go with this.

And again, I think what we will be seeing with Avengers Doom Day is going to become imminently more obvious after Fantastic four Thunderbolts. Maybe Thunderbolts will I mean Thunderbolts is the end of Phase five, so you know this is the second to last movie in Phase five. Phase four and Phase five have been pretty pretty all over the place. Yeah, oh boy, yeah so, And that's the thing is, I don't even feel these phases right now. It just feels like it's all just been I will grant that Phase four ends with Spiderman far from Home because that's where it feels like it naturally ends after endgame.

But then from Black Widow on, it's just like how we're all over the map and we have characters that keep dropping out because don't forget that the guy that played Shang Si also wants nothing to do with coming back and playing Chang Shei. And I'm just like, what is the check not big enough? Like what's the why are you having problems with this? But okay, yeah, that's your choice. Man, we will recast.

Do not worry. Don't worry about it. There is no next time. Baby, Yeah, I don't. Yeah, there's been no cohesive thought or idea to any of this.

And no, what's crazy is like there is one name in that producer's a lot through all this, Kevin Feigy, and maybe he's just giving it up a little bit, like I don't know, Like the quality of everything through Phase four, like to the beginning of Phase four has been quite good, and then Phase four on is just rough, rough, rough, rough, and this isn't like, oh this is us looking back on it, like, nah, these movies were considered kind of rough for the most part when they came out, and Phase five even more so. Quantum Mania, Guardians of the Galaxy, MARVL, Deadpool, Wolverine, Captain America, and Thunderbolts. Wow, what a mix of things, What a mix of things were Like one of those is good one? Oh yeah, that's about it.

I mean yeah, other than like Black Widow, Shangshi, Spiderman, No Way Home, some of it, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse, I still just I love Ramy's directions so much, but at the same time, I'm just like this story really doesn't make any sense as far as her looking for these kids and tearing apart the universe, and like, I'm sure there's another multiverse that has these two kids in it. Just go for it, find those kids, and this whole movie could be over within five minutes. Another movie that almost could have been a TV show, like a TV movie. Exactly should have been the second season of Wanda Vision. You know, well, this should have been the second season of Captain America, of our Hawkeye and Falcon and Winter Soldier whatever they would have called this Captain America fallacy guy, I'm Trapper, Yeah, really think Dan Trapper, John MD.

He's part in a multiverse, now, that's right. Yeah, no, I you know, I'm glad we sit down to do these mc things. It's been fucking almost a year. As May of last year we did dead Pool Wolverine, so it's been it's been a long time since we talked about new MCU stuff. We've got two more coming up in quick succession in May and then July, and then we have to wait almost another year for the Big Boy.

So yeah, I'm I'm curious, but not hopeful because this was not a great opening salvo for the first of the three movies we're getting this year, especially after it went three movies in a year, one movie, three movies in a year, because that's Phase five. Guys, it's been They loaded us up good. Well until we come back in May to talk about Thunderbolts asterisk. Chris, what are you working on these days? I am working on movie podcasts and other pop culture audio diversions over at Weirdingwaymedia dot com, where your show, The Projection Booth can be found, where my show The Culture Cast can be found.

Father Malone show Midnight Viewing can be found, where Susan lambert A and Sharon Johnson's show ADCV Ladies can be found. A great shows can be found. All the shows with the people that we work with and work on for the most part, can be found at weirdingmeaymedia dot com. That's where other than ranking on bond, which can be found on Patreon yours and mine respectively, Patreon dot com slash Culturecast and Patreon dot com slash Projection. Well, I want to thank Chris for joining me today and I want to thank everybody for listening.

I would definitely encourage everybody to go over to those patreons that make a donation be part of the community until we get to Ultimate Power and twelve million downloads a month. Chris, We're going to be fighting the good fight. But after that, the projection booth and the Culture Cast will take over the world. Amillia Line