Episode 811: The Outfit (1973)

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Visit Scarecrow Video dot Org today. Oh g is boot It's show Die. People pay good money to see this movie. When they go out to a theater. They want cold sodas, hot popcorn, and no monsters in the projection booths.

Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. Off MG presents an entirely different view of the world of crime, the story. Of two tough men in the struggle the survival against the largest criminal corporation in America, The Outfit. Put your hands flat on the table. Who are you, friend, Maclin?

You hit a bank? You and your brother, a guy called Cody before your stretch Midwest National and Wichita Right. Yeah, fit owns it, so you know how it is. You hit us, we hit you. The Outfit controls business, politics, police, It affects the lives of all of us and Robert du Valles, Earl Macklin.

He's being compared to Bogan and Acadney, Joe, Don Baker is Jack Cody. Together they're one. Of the most powerful teams in motion picture history. You and your damn gun. Don't ever touch this gun again, hard guy, thank you for telling you.

Okay, nothing but a damned independent of high Sky. You've got no operation behind you. Machlin and Cody independent professionals who've got the guts to fight back. You will never see a more exciting story of two tough men against overwhelming odds. The good guys always win.

The Outfit. Welcome to the Projection Booth t I'm your host. Mike White joined me once again as mister Jededi Airs. Go Die Elsewhere. Also back in the booth is mister Gary Phillips always a play.

On this special episode, we are discussing John Flint's nineteen seventy three film The Outfit. It's an adaptation of a book by Donald Westlake, writing as Richard Stark. It was Stark's third in the Parker series. We discussed the first one on our Point Blank episode here Robert Duval plays Earl Macklin. He's just getting out of prison and find his brother's been murdered for a job they did with their friend Cody.

They hit a mob bank and now the titular outfit is after them. Maclin wants the pursuit to stop, and does this with the unusual idea of hitting every unprotected outfit joint with of vulnerability. We'll be spoiling the outfit as we go along, So if you don't want anything ruined, please turn off the podcast and come back after you've seen the film. We will still be here. And lucky for you, Aero Video is releasing a new Blu ray of The Outfit, and it even features a commentary with Jedediah and me.

When we recorded that though, I uh, that was still when Robert Tuval was alive, and I still feel bad that I had to point out that he was alive and then he passed away, what two weeks after we recorded that jet even. If then it was like two days after, it was really shit. Yeah, yeah, I was the curse, the curse. So, Jennedi, when was the first time that you saw this film and what did you think? I saw it sometime in the too many tens.

I'd been aware of it for a little while. I think somebody loaned me a copy of their like Warner Archive DBD. I didn't have cable. I know it aired on TCM or something free times, but it was hard to find. And I was really excited that someone someone gave me access to it because I'd wanted to see it for quite a while and I loved it.

A few years later I got my own DVD copy and I've watched it several times since. It's always always a great, great watch, and yeah, I don't understand why it's never had a bigger audience. Hopefully this new release brings some new attention to it and it gets some wider recognition, because it definitely deserves it. And Gary, how about you? When did you see this?

Must have been either the late nineties or the early aughts, and or maybe it might even be mid nineties and it was on TV. I don't know what the hell it was on. I mean it was like and I recall it was like an afternoon man, you know, it was like it was his way after Ben Hunter's matinee, which we had out here in LA But it was whatever it was, it was like, you know, it was like on Channel four. It was you know, full of commercials and this and that. But then finally, and this is more reached a little bit more recent, not quite as recent as last night when I watched it again on streaming on Amazon Prime.

It was on TCM, as as Jeed mentioned, and I hadn't seen it, you know, again, I hadn't seen it in years, and so the opportunity to watch it on TCM a few years ago, I just thought so much better of the film one because it wasn't full of commercials and it was just you know, nothing was bleeped and you could sort of watch it continuously. And then I started to sort of more appreciate, Oh, this is a bit closer to a Parker novel than quite a few of the other efforts. Yeah, I didn't see this one until probably around the same time you saw it, Gary. I was doing an article about Payback and was watching as many of the Parker adaptations as I could get my hands on, And we'll talk about some of the ones that came out after Payback.

We touchd a little bit about this before Jet as far as the whole idea of who Parker is, and Parker not being Parker like. Parker wasn't able to be Parker until Jason Statham played him, which was after Donald Westlake aka Richard Stark passed away. I believe because for years he was like, nobody's playing Parker like Parker is my character. You guys can be Walker, you can be Macklin, you can be this, you can be that, And this wasn't even you know, I mentioned the whole idea of this coming up after point blank, but there were Parker adaptations before plint blank, and then there would be Parker adaptations after or I should say Stark, but Parker characters after that. And it's interesting to see how different people played Parker.

But I have to say that, even though he doesn't match the image in my mind of what Parker looks like, I think that Duval plays a really good Parker. These flat to use Westlake's own own comment on it, you know, he called the whole picture flat and said that's the way he writes the books, and that's the way. You know, he was really pleased with the film for that reason, you know. I mean, you can certainly argue I wouldn't I wouldn't hold anybody preferring Point Blank as a movie or you know, one of the other adaptations, just because they all have their own flavor. But you know, west Lake, I think correctly noted that this one feels most like the books.

The Point Blank is so arty and you know, kind of flashy, and and you know, I love it. It's it's a great movie, but it feels less like a Parker novel to Nathan than the Outfit does. For that that flatness that that goes to the you know, not just the camera work and and the things like the editing, but the performances as well. You're right, it's kind of fascinating when I was watching it again last night and thinking about just that very point that you know, here's Duval, who's not you know, who's physically not a big guy, you know, and yet the way he since the you know, and have that's the character and you and you write and you get this sense of I think I think, as you you point out in your in your notes to us, Mike, that you know, here's that there's that great scene where he's leaving the card game, having you know, embraced these dudes to essentially let them know, you know, I want my tour in fifty grand, like, by the way, which is perfect.

Right, He's like, no sentimentality really about his dead brother, right, He's not really seeking revenge for his dead brother. He just figures, well, look, you know this is worth two hundred fifty grand. This is what you owe me, and until you pay me, by the way, I'm gonna come at you. But and then that, but when he's just walking down the corridor of the Billboard hotel, I might point out and they're like, you know, you get that reminiscent of that scene of of Lee Marvin walking down that corridor at Lax and so really and just that kind of way he does it is it really? It really does give you a sense of of the no nonsense approach your Parker.

This is one of the first starring roles for Duval. Up until this, he'd mostly been a supporting actor, you know, big role of course, and the Godfather his I believe the first time he had a real you know, this movie is all about me was THHX eleven thirty eight in seventy one. But unfortunately, I don't think a whole lot of people watch that movie at the time. We talked about that on an earlier episode, but here he is just kind of owning this film and doing a damn good job with it. He is so compelling, And yeah, I like that.

You know, even though we are pretty close to Parker in the books, I'm trying to remember if it's it's not first person, right, it's definitely a third person. Ye close third aheah. That distance is crucial because you really should not ever know what Parker is thinking. You need to have that distance to be like, what is this guy up to? What is he about to do?

We don't know, rather than being inside of his head. Plus, Parker's not a friendly guy, you know, like you're saying like he just wants his money, And that's the whole thing, even in point blank, where it's just like I just want my money, Like I don't care about any of this other stuff. Just let me have my money, let me do my thing, let me on my own. Because the whole thing we should say is that Parker in Macklin. You know, whenever I say Parker, I'm basically saying Macklin.

In this movie, he is an outsider to the organization, to the outfit, and this whole idea of there are him, there are all of these other thieves that live on the outskirts, and they just want to do their business. They don't want to get involved. They just want to make their money from robberies, these things exploitation. Leave all that other stuff to the outfit. You know, we're we're just independent operators.

And this whole idea of the outfit. They're so big that they have left a lot of holes. They think that they're impenetrable, so so much of this is I'm going to go back to different jobs that I and I don't know if they necessarily cover this in the movie as well. Basically, it's just like, all right, I'm gonna hit this place, I want to hit that place, I want to hit this other place. But it's all because Parker in this case knows these places are vulnerable, because the outfit is so big that they haven't thought about this, that and the other thing.

Me, as a professional thief, I'm thinking things through way better than the outfit has done. Who would dare rob us? Because we are the outfit And this comes up a couple of different times. Of course, in the context of the movie. You know, do you know who we are, you know, you know what I mean?

Do you know who you're hitting here? Man? You're gonna be did in two days. Shit heel operation. He hits the place and they haven't even locked.

There's no like, there's no say for the drawer isn't even locked and shit heal operation. That's right, that's it exactly in the book. It's several, right. I think it's several people that he entices to, uh these yeah, Grove Field, I think it is one of them, and several others, I believe. Right, He sends out sends out notices to all the thieves in his network, and he just says, basically, I'm going to take the heat for this.

You haven't done these jobs because you know their outfit controlled and you don't want to take on the hassle of you know, dealing with the outfit. But they're after me, and I've let them know I'm going to hit them, so you know, do your worst, hit them all at once, hit them all, you know, fast as you can, and all the heat'll come at me. So that's why, you know, of. Course for the movie, it makes it's so it's better just to have Parker himself or Macklin pulling off what was his name in the I'm forgetting the Cody character's name in the novel. That's Handy McKay, right, Yeah, because he pops up pops up in a few of the books.

I mean, we basically start where the movie is about what ten minutes into things like he and not an anonymous woman, but it's just a woman that he's picked up. There's no love relationship, and she comes back at the end of the book. But really it's this whole thing of he and this woman are sleeping there, somebody breaks into his room and he takes care of business and is just like, well, who. The hell ordered this hit? And at this point too in the story.

This is the third book. The second book is The Man with a Getaway Face, where he has plastic surgery because he doesn't want the mob after him anymore, the outfit after him anymore so and then of course it quickly. It's funny because we just talked about the pilot for Some Like It Hot, which had almost the exact same structure to it, where it was, you know, the Jack Lemon character and the Tony Curtis character get plastic surgery. They become these other two characters, and then they're thrown almost immediately back into the mix, and by the end of the pilot their identities have been known. So the whole thing of the plastic surgery was almost for naught.

And you get a little bit of that in here, where like Richard Jacobs's character doesn't recognize him. And I had to say to my wife last night, I was just like, do you know why he keeps having to say who he is to these different people is because he's had plastic surgery. He looked like Lee Marvin a few movies ago, and now he looks like this got male pattern baldness. In the meantime, I mean I can relate. Yeah, all it all kind of works.

But yeah, having those different thieves because so much of the book you will leave Parker and go to these chapters vignettes that they have where it's okay, now it's this thief in this city and he goes, well, I've had this job planned forever and if the opportunity ever came up, I would hit them, but I don't want to because it's the outfit. I don't want this shit coming back. I mean, great, it'll come back on Parker, fuck him, I'm good, you know, it's like the honor dishonor amongst thieves. I did reread the novel, but I did a grabbhic novel adaptation that Darwin Cook did and exactly and it starts the same way as book, which is to say right. It starts with the woman coming away, Parker hearing it, rolling off the bed as as an allah a lah that.

Seen the great scene in the in the in Point Blay and actually see that scene here too, right where they come in they shoot the shoot the bed. The bed is empty, which reminds me a little bit. I think there was a similar scene as far as shooting the empty bed. I'm sure they've done that a bunch of stuff. I can think of the hobbits, you know, escaping the uh the Nasgul in the Fellowship of the Ring.

But the whole thing with the empty bed reminds me. I think like the Big Combo might have had a similar thing to that. And it's it's always Parker is always one step ahead of everybody, and that's a superpower. Really. He's smart, but he's also very relentless, like there's nothing that's going to stop him.

I love in the Book of The Hunter, just that whole idea of I want what was a mal Reese's neck between my hands. I'm gonna choke the life out of this guy. I'm just gonna constantly come after him. I think I described him as like a Golam. He's kind of like the in the movie.

He's kind of like keenan Win's Golam, going after what he wants to go after, going after you know, Carol O'Connor, going after this character, going after that character, until you know, at the very end he finally gets who he needs to get and then kind of fades back in the shadows kind of thing. I guess it speaks to the elliptical nature of the of the way Borman did the did the movie, which is to say he in the end doesn't seem to want the money now, right. He sort of pulls back because now he's I mean, really he accomplished his goal, right, I mean, he did everything that he needed to do to get it. He was just relentless sort of force this machine. And now here at this moment, it's almost as if well if I if I take the money, well, I you know, will I have no more purpose, right, so now I'll just yeah, I'll just pull back.

I'll just go I go back, which, of course then it gets echoed in the line of Soderberg's you know the line, which is a tribute to point Mind talking about cyclical. It also is similar insofar as eventually in Point Blank, he's going after you know, who's the big boss. I have to find the big boss. I'm going to kill the big boss. This movie basically it's kind of a redo of Point Blank in The Hunter, where it's Okay, now I'm going to go after In this case, the character's name is Mailer, the Robert Ryan character, and just go after him.

The one thing that they don't talk about that's in the book, which is Parker slash. Macklin reaches out to another I think it's like the second in command, and it's just like if I do this, if I take out this Mailer character, then you have to leave me alone after you come in charge. Like this is now my mission is to take this guy out like almost like forget the two hundred and fifty grant. I just need to ice this guy so that I can live in peace, because he just he just wants to rob places and not have people in his ship, which is like very admirable to me. Remember, he thinks he's gonna get the two fifty when they doublecross him and it's a trap.

That's that's when he decides to take out Robert Ryan's character. But really, up until d he's if they'd have paid it the two fifty, he'd have gone away, right, he'd have gone away. And that's what they don't understand. They'd never understand that if you just pay me my money, I will be a man in my word, because he's he's very honorable in that way. That way, that's right.

Yeah, he does change his mind a couple of times in the books. I'm trying to remember if it was in this, this one, or but but he a couple of times he decides, not fuck it, I'm angry, I got my money and I'm gonna kill you, or you know, I'm gonna keep going. You know, I'd read several of the novels and a couple of them a couple of times before. Uh, you know, I started the year off just reading all the entire series in order, and I'd never. Done that before.

But some kind of misperceptions I'd had about the character where you know, I thought that he was emotionless pretty you know, I thought he really was just this sort of sociopathic automaton, you know, just set to to take. And he in the books, you know, he doesn't speak a lot, but his his interiority is is there to a certain degree, and you understand how pissed off he gets about things and how you know he Yeah, I mean a couple of times he reels himself back in and there are sort of ebbs and flows to the series, like for this stretch of books, he's a little more this way and then he reigns it back in, and you know, and he you know, he develops a love interest that lasts for you know, a while that's in and there's some playing with the you know what what that means for for the Parker code and things like that.

But he is, he is an emotional person. He is a person I should say he is. He's not as quite as cold as he presents himself. Robert Duval is recognizably human in here too. You know his I love the scene early on when the Felice Sir Landy, He's assassin, comes to shoot him and shoots the bed and mac and grabs him and Bet starts, you know, after he's really roughed him up, Bet starts begging, you know, I don't hurt him anymore.

And Parker just like slams his face into the wall and he's like, you're trying to kill me. Why shouldn't I, you know, And you know, he calms down after that, tells. Him to go die elsewhere, but gives him some money. Oh, it gives him some money. I love it.

Felice or Landy asked for a handkerchief, and he gives him a handkerchief to like, you know, dab the blood and pick out some of the glass out of his face with you know, you know, his angers a little bit spent at that point. But anyway, I just I appreciated reading the books so close together and realizing, oh, there are there are little you know, human uh, you know, things that might be construed as weakness of a certain kind that he feels the need to rein in. It's not it's not all natural, the coldness he has to kind of project out of fair amount. Yeah, it's that series of books, those Parker books where Stark has him, you know, taking care of the little Kid for a while, and then the dog Dog right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm just kidding.

The Parker books are pretty solid. Sometimes your mileage may vary, but I would say especially these first three books are really super solid. No and no cute kids, no. No dogs, no, no we we. This is not an eighties cop drama comedy type of thing.

This is not Ca nine or Sidekick or any of these kind of things. This is much more in that early seventies, just really hitting it solid. I mean, there's a lot of elements of this movie that remind me of other movies. I know that John Flynn, the writer director, was friends with Walter Hill. It feels like there's a little Walter Hill Hill influenced for me.

Like the picking up at the prison at the beginning reminds me a lot of The Getaway. The whole thing of Macklin, his brother and the Joe Don Baker character hitting a mob run bank and that's why they got in trouble. That's Charlie Arrett Verreck, right. I mean, we've we've seen that plot before too. And am I thinking right that this came out the same year?

Yeah? Yeah, And then you've got Joe Don Baker playing a completely different character in that one, that Molly character, where he's more of a Parker. He's more of the no nonsense I just want what I want. I mean the stuff that he says to those prostitutes at the Bunny Ranch or whatever, that's really rough stuff. And meanwhile, here I just want to be friends with Joe Don Baker.

He seems like the most jovial, down to earth, nice guy, like, let me come eat at your diner. Sir, exactly. He just wants to run his diner. Man, my god, I know exactly what. And in the book doesn't doesn't Handy want a bar?

Doesn't he have a bar? Doesn't he get a bar? Eventually he wants the diner. His dream is to finance the diner. He doesn't have it yet.

He does in the books go on to have a diner, but in the Outfit his dream is like, I want to make enough money on this run that I can I can start a diner. And he becomes a contact point for Parker later on in the books that you call Handy's diner, oh, to reach. A park Got that's right, I do call that. Yeah, you're right, right right, you know, Rather than the diner. That's his dream in the movie, since he's already got the diner, his dream is to give up smoking.

And right, that's right. You know, it's like just like in the in the books, Parker is always saying, yeah, he wants you know, his Parker's interiority is that that. Yeah, Handy said this about the diner. Before he's gonna quit. He's going to open the diner.

But he always comes back to do a crime. And in this in the movie, it's the smoke, and he goes back and forth on it throughout. It's like, no, I quit smoking, Now give me a cigarette. No I quit smoking. So, yeah, you've got those great scenes in the book which are kind of mirrored here.

The whole thing of the the guy who sells guns. I love that whole thing in the book, where it's was he's a private detective, so he's allowed to have like a license for two guns or two gun licenses, and so he just is constantly like swapping out these guns and selling these guns, and there's this whole like, well you have to call and say this in order to do that. It kind of reminds me again of Charlie Verick with the whole idea of the photos and like him trying to get the fake id's and stuff like this whole underground thing and the whole thing too here of who's a Magic Coyle, the Marie Windsor character where it's like magic Barr is like the kind of a haven again for the Parker character. That's to Flynn's credit, where you where Yeah, I mean he's transposed names and changed things around it and colapse some things, but that you again, you get that sense of Parker's world, the world that Parker in habits, and this is kind of the sort of you know, slightly above ground but mostly underground kind of world that he moves through and that clearly you know, he's comfortable in.

You know, I was thinking too, it's funny. I mean it's not really here in this actually, I don't think it's in any of the films, but cially in the books there's always a return to or refrain about you know, Parker's guy cash stored in safe houses or some or someplace hidden you know, in various parts of the country. So depending on if he's on the run or if he's setting up a job here or doing something there, you know, there's always this cash around it. Then oddly enough, I mean, I guess at some point he must have thought about laundering this money. But really, car Parker was all about the cash, and he would just have these sort of secret stores of cash, you know, in various parts of the country.

We never really see Parker's prime in the books. Could they start with him losing everything? They start with, you know, he's lost his relationship, his identity is burned. He's always looking back on, well, this is the way things were. I always had all this, you know, this network of things.

But now I can't access this cash because it's under a safety deposit box with an identity that's been burned, and I can't use it anymore. And so I've got it, you know, And so there's all we get these this very interesting portrait, pretty pretty well worked out portrait throughout the series of what's Parker like at his you know how, when things are working right as they should be for him, what's it like, what's his life like it? You know, it's it's pretty orderly. But then, of course, you know, the fun of the movies is to then disrupt that and you know, make him, make him either break break some rules, do some things that he wouldn't do if he were if everything's working the way it's you know, it should be.

That's part of the pleasures is we get both. We get to understand that, yeah, this should all be working very well for him, but but things are not. Is it the Stathum movie where what was the steady girlfriend? Was it Carol anyway? Those those the steady woman, right, and she kind of like just apparently I don't know, we never know much about her life.

But they had a house somewhere I don't know. Was it upstate New York, somewhere right in the woods and some of there was a lake. In the books, it's like New Jersey and in the in the movie the States of the movie, I think it was Louisiana or something like that. It was, it was elsewhere, but yeah, it was a little little removed from the big city right. Where at times Park will just sort of go there to be human right in between but in between the being called back or working up some other new job.

Yet. Yeah, because the Bet character, the Karen Black character, is wholesale created for this one. Like I said, the he's sleeping with that woman at the beginning of the book, she ends up I think, stealing his gun, and then she comes back later on in the book, I think to set up the next book basically, and Bet is the really just added to this story. It's interesting the whole thing of the cigar burns on her arm or cigarette burns, and it's like, I don't think that Parker would really give a shit about this woman having had cigarette burns on her arm. Meanwhile, here it's more like a he becomes more like the knight Errant.

It becomes like, Okay, I'm going to start this whole thing because this guy, Jake Minner has called for my death. Who is this guy? I'm going to go track him down. I'm going to figure out what that was going on, because there's always the next guy up the chain, and that's what Parker knows is there's always the next guy, the next guy, the next guy. And having Timothy Carey play Jake Minner, I mean, I fucking love Timothy Carey.

And it's such a smart thing. You mentioned Robert Ryan, we mentioned Marie Windsor. This is this great thing that Flynn does is he's pulling back in like older character actors, especially from these films noir where it's like, Okay, here's Jane Gear, He's here's Henry Jones, here's elijahka Junior shows up for a second. I mean it's it's great and I love I mean Timothy Carrey. Oh, he just lights up the screen every single time, that whole thing of like when he comes in, he's uh, Macklin comes in and he's just like, yeah, give it to Mena or whatever, and they're like.

How did you how'd they know who you were? Jake is like, well, he didn't know it until you said it, asshole. That asshole is so. Good making mistake friend, you know, why not go with this game? Collect the wallets and the bills on the table, get miner's first.

How come he knows you're Jacob? He does, now, asshole? I kept winning that that big battle between because they were both big guys, you know, between Jodahn Baker's Cody and and uh and and and Timothy Carrey. Man, I'm sure at some point they must have had something like that in the script mecause that would have just been that would have been fantastic. Yeah.

I think that Flynn did a really good job when it comes to this. You talked before Gary as far as like condensing things, expanding things, making references, pulling some stuff out of here there and the other place, and yeah, just a very very solid story, you know. And he does try to humanize Parker by the whole thing of like, well, my brother got killed and oh yeah, Bett's arm got burned, whereas like Parker doesn't need any of that stuff. He's just like, I just want my money. Oh you're trying to double cross me.

Okay, now I'm going to kill you as simple as that. I don't need any motivations other than money and justice basically. But Flynn definitely, you know, he knew what he was doing when it came to this, and I have to say solid direction. I love a lot of these shots. I love especially when before, right before he finally sees men, or the Timothy care of character, that wonderful shot of he is going down the hallway, Maclin's going down this hallway and there's a guard outside of a door, and that whole thing.

And I love when they go out onto the fire escape and you've got that great low angle looking up at those guys and then that great down angle where you see his sunglasses fall. I'm just like This is really nice. Roy Jason as the guard. He's in all these kind of flicks and it always like the muscle guy. It was a great He had a great part in One of the heart It was one of the Harper movies that Paul Newman made.

I want to say it was the first one. It was the first one. He's kind of kind of a more expanded part, but you know again like sort of the tough guy, enforcer guy that eventually has a tangle with Harper. Yeah, or well Archie or Harper again again the name thing, yeah, yeah, yeah, and just his. Whole thing of like, hey, I got a bad ear, you know, can you hit me over here?

And I'm glad you know, Macklin does that, respects him and knocks him out the right way. The whole thing of like you aren't getting paid enough to care about this stuff, and the guy is just like, yeah, no, you're right, You're absolutely right. I'm not getting paid enough to care. The quick assent to Maclin's superiority in that you know thing that that that communicates to Maclin that this guy's a professional, he knows he's beat. He's not a hot heead who's gonna fight me here, you know, and and they can talk like professionals, and he knows, he knows he's got a you know, a bludgeoning coming, so he just ask ask a little favor.

Hey, do it this way please, And you know, it's really what is so you know, whether you're talking about con Man movies or these sort of workaday thieve movies, and even when you're talking about mafia movies, what you know, what what we really want as an audience, I think, is to see to feel like we understand how this works. You know, we're the square world. We understand that there's another strata to our existence, and we want to feel like, yeah, I understand. You know, I don't live I don't live in that world, but I understand it. And and the way that I mean, if you're if you're doing like like John Wick uh makes these very sort of baroque presentation of of what the criminal underworld is like.

And it's it's very arch and it's stylized and and you know, nobody thinks that's really how it happens, but it's it's a big part of the appeal of those of those films. Something like this really rounds off the edges a lot where it seems it seems pretty believable, you know, which I don't. I don't know that it really does operate anything like this. But as a as a as a movie watcher, I definitely feel pretty street wise when I come out of. Like, I know what that's like.

Yeah, but you're making a great point there, Ja what you just say. You know, there's no you know, fantastic acrobatic stuff. There's no you know know, you know, spinning through the air, shooting the gun, you know, three on sixty, none of you know that, You're right, it's there's none of that stuff. Man, It's it's very very down to earth, is very much you know, grounded in in in in our world, and you do definitely get a sense of like, uh yeah, this is like this is he's got. You know, Parker is the kind of blue collar guy, you know, in a in a certain sense right that that he doesn't I mean, he would be the kind of guy in another world or in another mindset, you know, goes to the factory and goes home and you know, drinks of beer and goes to sleep watching football games or basketball games.

But but that's but that's that kind of sensibility of this is my job, and I'm going to do this job the best way I know how, and and and you you just sort of get that sense of that again, that single mindy is that ruthlessness that he has to bring because it's the nature of the work. But it's not, it's not it's not designed to be this fantastic realm. Not to say there's nothing wrong with shouldn't brow style, but that's not what this is. Even the say that the Continental Hotel and the John Wick movies, you know, where the everything's set up to like Madge's Place is that in this movie, you know, but it's it's it's much more believable. It's less they're they're the same function.

Basically, there's this neutral ground where thieves can come and do their business and you know, be it's like a cop bar, except it's it's a thief bar, you know, like I understand people here and in the books, Madge's Place also does square business, but you know, she's always got stuff set apart, set aside for you know, for professionals to come in and have this. You know, they can set up meetings there and they can talk business and they can pass communications, whereas you know, it's so arch in something like the John Wick series, you know, which is fun, it's a lot of fun. But but this is you know, this definitely feels like, oh yeah, no, this these places probably something like this probably exists, and it's probably kind of close to this, and the aim as the gun salesman and you know, things like that are and especially Richard Jacoles get away, you know, his his car, his driver guy, so so much, so much fun too.

Yeah again, I watched this movie and then I think, yeah, I know how things work. Well, it's very similar to the way the Tarantino approaches things by like normalizing everything. You know, these two hit men having a conversation about you know, royal with cheese or you know, talking about foot massages, those kind of things, and in here you've got that kind of like, you know, just here's how the conversations work, and we're much more workaday guys kind of things. And I know Tarantino loves this movie. This was in Cinema Speculation, that book that he wrote, which was really tough for me to read just because he goes off on so many tangents all the time.

I finally like, I went through. I copied that whole chapter and I cut out all the bullshit basically and just like made it about the outfit. I cut it down probably by five pages. I didn't correct all the errors because there were a ton of those as well, a ton of ra Yeah, he's making references to stuff that just doesn't exist and stuff. You think about that line from Reservoir Dogs, you know, like talking about a manager.

You know, like you got to break that sort of a bitch in too. If you want to know something you won't tell you, cut off a one of it, cut off one of his fingers, the little one. Then I'll tell them the thumbs next, and after that, I'll tell you if you wears Ladies underwear. That's so similar to this where you've got the takeoff his shoes. We're gonna start cutting toes, you know, I just don't think Tarantino wants to violate toes and feet whatsoever.

It's it's much easier to make it the hand. We also circle back to, you know, obviously a more linnar and that kind of you know what I mean, and that kind of you know, straightforward workaday approach to to to the gangster like right to to what these to what do these professionals do? Now, obviously his characters tend to be a bit more quirky uh and and off kilter, but nonetheless there is that there is that kind of uh to use just termin it, kind of this this flatness, but not not in the sense that it's flat as a totally, but more flat like the way these characters do their business, wave these the way these criminals are criminals. Speaking of it, kind of like the Bet character. The women in this movie are interesting, especially the Joe who is a Joan.

Yeah, she really she really needed a bigger media because she's I've seen her in stuff where she's just dynamite mad, where she just got you know, just got kind of fortunately, guy, you know, there's there's really not much all those odd by the way as we talk about it. I mean, first of all, but I did like her d her her white suit. That was pretty cool. I thought, well, that's kind of interesting, you know, but you could have really made something of that, I thought. But anyway, but it is also interesting that the.

Bet character runs over the two gunzels and then but but then, but then she seems to be freaked out about having done that. Right, so about you know, it's like, well, I don't want to really do this in. Your world, Maclan, I really don't. This is not what I want to do. I'm gonna go back to dam I want to make her dad.

I'm going back home. Well, good for you, she's dead. Well I know, I'm sorry. Oh, damn it, damn it, damn it. To compare Mailer's wife in the book to the Joe Cassidy character here Rita, I mean, the one in the book is just like, I live in this beautiful house.

I've got, you know, all of the stuff that I need. My husband occasionally comes home, but it's really almost better when he isn't here, just because he's always mad about things. And in this it's like, you know, like I really feel for Rita. This whole thing is like I just want, you know, I like horses. I want to know this.

I don't want a fucking football game on the TV. You know. It's just she's so angry about things. And yeah, it's just that she's a fascinating character. And yeah, in that suit, she just looks so tight.

In that suit exactly exactly. Oh and by the way, not for nothing, another another reference that were that were because because they never really say they were in LA or so like California. But you know, I take it some of the seeds are shot out in the San Geo Valley and certainly some seeds are very specific LA. Robert Ryan's character is listening to a Rams game. So so there you go twice, yes, two different.

You're right, that's right. And yeah, didn't Jim Brown Robert Rams game in the split? Wasn't that so? And he was? And he was he was McCain, He was McCain in that one.

Yeah, Gary, I've got a question for you, as both a Parker guy and an l A guy, I'm curious why, if you have any insight to why they moved location of both point you know, point blank, both the Hunter and the Outfit from New York, Yeah, and East Coast settings to l A. And how how does that change anything? Do you think it's funny? I thought about that. I mean, I don't know why.

Maybe was it a budget concerned although plenty of films are being shot in New York in those days, right, I mean even now, but certainly crime films were shot there. Now now was it? Now? Was it? Because both by the way, both are are uh MGM film right, both the Metro gold Mayor and they both have the same I noticed the same typeface, uh for the movies from both movies when they when they start.

And certainly that also meant and I was just you know, doing a little be dive into it where you know, some of the stubble hell shot on on the back lot, which is which was here, which is still here? Uh So maybe I don't know, Maybe maybe it was all a budgetary concern, and and and and and and and there was that or was it the notion that you know or there there is more of the artistic notion that well, is l A the city of the future or or is New York two overused? I don't know, but it is it isn't think about that that they that they transposed transported both those stories, uh both those adaptations you know, to to l A and now being an l A guy, I mean, I I dig it and and uh and I like the idea that you see these this other city, right, this other world that that this character exists in.

Although I do have the I always had the feeling, I think with both those characters, you have the feeling both Macklin and Parker that they're not. They're just in LA because this is where the trail is taken them. This is where the hunt has brought them. But they're not necessarily one way or the other about the city, right, They're not. It's just something they exist in.

So you can certainly see those guys as both guys starting in the east or wherever it is that we see that Maclin is in the prison and and and and where will we think that although I guess it's to uh, the Walker character of the Marvin's version, he is working on the docks, so maybe that is still a kind of a West coast thing. All it could be East coast anyway, but that you but still you get a sense that they're just sort of moving through these through this city. LA is the same as any other city in the sense that I got to know the train and I got to operate in it. But that but yeah, although certainly what I think, I guess it's better defined. You're you're right that it is better defined.

I think in in uh, in the outfit that Macklin, while he doesn't call on you know, grow Field the others like he does in the book, but you do get a sense that he does have a more of a network that he operates in, whereas definitely you get the sense that Walker is is somehow you know, is this outsider, that he that that that maybe he has some kind of shady pass because clearly maw Reice wantson for for this job, not just to set them up, but knows that he's capable and maybe maybe maybe in that version of Walker had done it been a fief and now he you know, does a straight job, and now he's been called back into the criminal life. But you certainly get more of a sense that Walker is just Walker, right, that he's just sort of by himself.

I mean, I mean there's you know, Angie Diggis's character, but that's because he you know, he sort of pulls her in. But you don't really get a sense of any kind of network that he's operating in or that he knows that he you know, deals with these other people, Whereas you definitely get it more of something that with the Alpha, which has been more reflective of you know, of the books. Yeah, well I just. Struck me both with both, and I guess you could put the split in there too, though, you know, being a Jim Brown vehicle makes sense to put it in l A, I think, but. I like it.

I like that Mayam's connection. Yeah, isn't the Parker movie with Stathum. Isn't that Florida? I want to say, Yeah, I think it's it's basically Gulf Coast, It's Florida, It's Louis Louisiana. I think Texas.

Is a racetrack in Texas, or because he winds up in Florida, right, because he's running them to Florida, doesn't. He Yeah, it's very sunny. Should be Ohio or something like that. It's like a Iowa, you know, some some some cornpall. Little Prime.

Yeah. And then the whole thing with with the the Jennifer Lopez. I know we should go down that rabbit hole. But man, come on, I never quite never never anyway, you couldn't think I'm a fan. I'm a I'm a real fan of the movie.

Having read the series. I mean, I like the movie alright, but reading the series and then uh, you know, I also watched all the films that I could, and yeah, you know, you may not. People may not. Care for the latter Parker novels as much. As the earlier ones.

But as far as faithfulness to the book that Chason Statham Parker movie is, that's real. Close to Okay, the book it was it was fire book. It was it was flash fire. So they had uh yeah, they all like the first it was all those those compound words where the second part of the word was the first part of the next. The next title was like it was like.

Flash fire, fire, break break out out. Something, you know. It was uh yeah, but anyway, Flash flash Fires was a fun a fun book. And and the yeah, I gotta I'll put my I'll you know, sacrifice my my Parker credentials by saying I like, I like the Jason state at the movie. I I haven't seen this one yet, but you'd like to play dirty as well?

Correct I do, I did, I I've I've liked it quite a bit. Now, I'd say that's definitely a that's the Shane Black fan and me coming coming out more more than the Parkers thing. But I will say as a is A definitely, it's it's a pretty admirable uh you know, it's similar to kiss, Kiss, Bang Bang, where he's just pulling all these references from all sorts of pulp fiction. He's doing the same thing in Play Dirty, except all the references are coming from Parker novels and the Grove Field novel. Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah.

Really interesting, interesting experiment that I understand purists are not happy with, and I don't you know, you don't have to be, but I enjoyed it. I like Shane Black too much, not too well. It's interesting that Parker doesn't speak a whole lot, and meanwhile, Shane Black, for me, it's all about the dialogue. So it must be an interesting marriage. And especially I mean, love him or hate him, but Marky Mark Mark Wahlberg, you know, sometimes not the best actor in the world.

Sometimes he's fantastic. I think a lot of it has to do with the director that he's working with, and I would be curious to see how he handles some of Shane Black's dialogue or if it just sounds unnatural in his mouth. Have me on the Play Dirty episode and we can talk about I'll see if I can get Shane Black back. It's funny that Joe Don Baker doesn't join like we see him doing his solo stuff, and he doesn't even join up with Robert Duvall until forty minutes into this film, and then when they're together. I mean, this is one of those friendships and movies where you're just like, fuck, yeah, I want to be with these guys.

I want to be Karen Black in the backseat hanging out with these guys, just listening to them bullshit and talk and they just that's the some of the times that you see Robert Duval actually having fun and cracking a smile, and Joe Don Baker. Is just so. He's just so delightful in this and when he spoilers when he gets shot towards the end, you're just like, oh, fuck, like this guy. I love him so much. I don't want anything bad to happen to him.

I love his whole thing. When you mentioned the Richard Jaco part when they're out buying that car and who is at Schari North is coming on to him, who just is such a dish in this movie, and just him just like totally ignoring her, and then like the whole like you know, when when she's accusing him of raping her, they're just like, ah, yeah, okay, another complication, What the hell are we going to do? And I really like Jacob being like, yeah, she offered it up to me a couple of times. Too, So bastard, you took it, you took it, you cook it. She does the exact same thing in a couple of years later and Tom Grys's Breakout the Charles Bronson movie, except that it's not her idea in that one.

It's Bronson's idea. Is she's she's supposed to throw a wrench into you know, be a distraction for his operation, and she's, you know, he's he's like, you know, she's like, what do you want me to do? And she is, you just have to jump out of a car and you'll rape, you know, and all. And so that's great right away, isn't it all? He's breaking out of the prison.

It's devall. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, he's the helicopter pilot breaking the ball out of there. You go. That's a fun movie. Yeah yeah yeah.

Was that was that done? SEAgel? No? I wasn't done, seag Tom grees gr right, so sure, sure, sure, yeah. Yeah, nothing guys, brother, Yeah yeah.

Man, right, right, that's great. That's a great of a movie, that's right, which was based on a real story, right the guy did? Yeah, I believe so that the actually incident where they now has been done several times, but I mean in real life has been done several times. But yeah, he used the helicopter to break this guy out of the prison. Yeah yeah, land it right in the yard.

Yeah. Yeah. There was a documentary I was just watching about uh American skyjacker I think it was called and that that was the real life thing where this They're like, okay, yeah, we're going to pay your girlfriend to learn how to fly a helicopter and break you out of this prison. Yeah that's shit, that's perfect. That's right there, you go, there, we go.

Didn't work out so well? Yeah, well yeah, nothing visured, nothing gain, you know what I mean. Yeah, it seemed like a good idea on paper. She could make a career out of doing that, doing that role. As far as I'm concerned, I'd watch every one of those movies based on these two.

Yeah, as long as she's got that tight black sweater that she's wearing. Poor girl's bathrobe is wet too, and that's you want to dry her off. I do like because of the California setting that this is so much in sunlight. You know, That's one of the things I think about New York is just more of like the griminess, the overcastness and everything, and here everything is just out in the light. Like the whole thing with the horses and the little exchange that Duvall and Robert Ryan have.

Again that kind of reminds me of Charlie Verrick. It reminds me of when John Vernon is just like, you know, they're going to go to work with you with a blow fortunate pair of players, and you know, I think he's sitting on a fence with like horses behind him and stuff. Very similar type of set. But and then that great idea of like the the stuff that goes on, you know, like okay, ye, I'm going to pay your money and all that, and then meeting in the men's mission and just having all of the church themes. I think Jed you pointed out a lot of like the holy the church stuff that goes on in this movie.

Yeah, there's there's some parallels given to organized religion and the organized crime and how how the Macklin is outside of that, he doesn't belong to an organization. And you know, there's there's a couple of different times in the film, like at the beginning where Felice or Landy and and Tom Reese playing the hit men coming after him. Uh well, at the very beginning, Reese is dressed as a priest. That's right right back of the cab. Yeah.

And then uh, and then when Orlandi comes after Maclin he before he goes in, he you know, he does a sign of the Cross before the door and. Please please let me get killed God, where I go inside to kill somebody else, right right? Uh yeah, and then setting it up at the mission with all the all the guys, uh you know who Just look, it's the most cheerless looking group singing this hymn. You know, I think those are the real deal. I don't think those guys were from Central Casting, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I think we just shoot this thing here. By the way, I would be remissed having gone, like I said, a little bit down the rabbit hole after watching it last night. The guy, the white haired guy who makes the delivery in the in the mission, which is the setup, I mean, you know, the mighty supposed to be in the in the pick. That guy I'm gonna mispronounce his name, but I wrote it down is Paul King g E n g e and he his most famous role. He was a character act.

His most famous role was the shotgunner along with Bill Bill Hickman, the real real deal stunt driver, the two killers in Bullet Yeah, and. It's for Felice or Landy. They shoot. That's right, yes, exactly exactly, and Robert Duval plays the camp draund the camp right, that's right, that's right. And let's and uh the scene where uh you were just mentioning it, Mike, the scene where uh Duvall goes into the bar, but it's during your day.

He's looking for I think he's looking for he's looking to Brace. I guess it's Vincent or wherever. Anyway, whoever he's looking at Brace right. He eventually, you know, goes in the back there to do that. There's a woman playing the piano and singing as he comes in, and in fact there's a spotlight on her.

That's jazz singer Anita O'Day, who actually had appeared in films in the fifties and will go on to peer in other fields. And at that point, though, according to my deep dive, she was just sort of coming out of a period of addiction and it was struck you know, had gone through it and made it to the other side, and and and somehow or another for whatever reason why maybe Flynn new her I don't know, but she they give her that. I mean, she's not credited at all. There's no real there's no close up on her. But that's that's her singing, singing and playing a piano.

Yeah, So there you go, talking about music. I love the Jerry Fielding scored for this and they use it so smartly, Like there are certain points where it just really comes in as bombastic, and then there are huge swaths of this movie where there's no music whatsoever. They use it very judiciously. And then you know, gosh, if you're looking for connections to other movies, I mean, Fielding just did so many, including The Getaway, which I mentioned before. And yeah, and this is a great great that's right.

I forgot about that. Yeah, man, I can't remember. Who did the score for Point Blank. And I want to say that I just downloaded like a combination of Point Blank and the Outfit soundtrack, but it might have been different. I don't think it was him, No, and it wasn't Oliver Nelson.

I thought there was some kind of a bit of electronica right in the in the in the point blank score, all right, right, sort of early that version of whatever it was then. But I've seen recall that. Yeah, yeah, of course, I'm thinking of that guy in the club screaming that the African American gentleman is just like yeah, and then you got the white guys trying to repeat him and everything. It's like, this isn't Colin response, Just settle down. Yeah, this whole movie, I mean, it's it's just it's steeped in the nineteen seventies.

I love all the wood paneling that's there. I love that so much of this seems like it was shot on location, even when I imagine our sets, you know, it just looks really legit. You know, like the robbery of the One office, I mean, Godwin Jodahn Baker comes in and just punches that woman in the face. It's just like, holy shit. But like that whole office looks legit.

The bar that you're talking about, where they don't even like lock the filing cabinet, like all of these places, like there's a real earthiness to every single one of them. The heist at the casino where they go in, I mean, that sequence in the book takes so much and talking about the whole idea of the bathroom that leads into the cash room and these guys that are running the cash room. I love that, and I love that they He's so faithful to that. John Flynn is very, very faithful when it comes to a lot of these robberies. I think there's really only like maybe one or two that he doesn't represent in this film, including the one which, yeah, the whole idea of like the guy who gets this money and he puts it in a jacket, he flies to another place, he's changes jackets with a guy and then flies back like that one's missing here, but a lot of this other stuff.

Somebody's in the jacket, that's right, the money jacket, that's right, that's right. And Darwin Cook uses that in the in the Grabbing novel version. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I. Love those Darwin Cook novels. Man.

He oh that art style of his was just beautiful. Oh oh boy, it was great. And I could tell what a fan he was of these, you know, absolutely. Yeah and yeah, no, absolutely yeah, no doubt about it. And they and they get society, w did the did the the Grabbing novels, but they republished The Hunter for the first time in hardback, and then they had Cook.

Uh. He just did some single ils for the for the hardback version of A Hunter, Yeah, which I got that, which is really just it's just nice to have it, because you know, it was a paperback original. I mean, I guess, I guess all the Parkers were until till he came back, right. Last yeah, eight, last eight, and I think, yeah, yeah, after Butcher's Moon, after Butcher's Moon. That's right, Yeah, that's right, that's right after Butcher's Moon.

But I don't remember where I gave. Up with the Parker books. I remember reading those for racially when I was younger, and I think it was somewhere around like the gold Coin Score or something like that. I don't think I made it that far into stuff, but those first three were just killer, and I think there's audio versions style available of all of them. I might start listening to those just because the one of the outfit, the narrator of that was really solid and just did a great job with it, because again, you have to capture that toughness in your voice without you know, exaggerating and sounding like a cartoon character.

One thing I thought I was interesting on this. I rewatched it last night. I hadn't picked up on it before. There's only, I believe, only two dogs in the film. One is named Soldier and the other Judge.

It's both criminals who own the dogs, and they call them Soldier and Judge. It's it's it's Eddie, his brothers Eddie's. Eddie's dog is Soldier. And then Sharie North's You're Richard Jakob and their their dog's name is Judge. And yeah, just something about these, you know, criminals having having these you know, faithful servants or you know whatever, who are you know, they're useful, but they're you know, definitely below them and naming them, you know, after public servants is is kind of I don't know, it's I don't know if that was intentional, like as a theme.

I figure, if you know, if Robert Ryan had a had a dog named Captain or something like that, it would it would really have have nailed that home. But with just two examples, I'm not really sure what to make of it. And isn't and by the way, in the book, is it isn't Ryan's character. Isn't Ry's character named Bronson. Yes, it is is bronon right and brought to the point, Bronson's a carryover from the first from right and fair facts right, and Fairfax.

Is there as well. Yeah, yeah, Fairfax. What William Devane in uh Payback? And then. The William Devaine connection with Flynn's next film with Rolling Thunder Holy Ship, What a movie with that one too?

And talk about male friendship, you know, the Tommy Lee Jones William Devaine connection. There, speaking of a soldier, I got a mission for you. Let's go. Yeah, we're talking about the older character actors and stuff because I I think Flynd originally wanted I can't remember if he said this to Shocks and him. I think he did that.

He wanted older actors to play this cast, like the main cast, like Burt Lancaster, Kirk Douglas, Yeah, Angie Dickinson, which would be another point blank connection. I think that Joe, Donna and Duval are perfectly cast in this, but almost because Lancaster and Douglas are still very viable. Yeah. I could definitely see Burt Lancaster as as Maclin Parker character. Absolutely absolutely, Yeah, well, you could definitely see.

That having Robert Ryan and poor Robert Ryan. I mean, I don't know how much longer he lived after this, but he just looks so gaunt this one. And. I forget what the other one, but this is one of his final two roles, and he was he was dead before this was least. Oh my goodness, my goodness, oh my god.

And this is what five years after the Wild Bunch? So right, yeah, yeah, I think so. Wow, Okay, Wild Bunch was sixty nine. Maybe this was sixty yeah, yeah, all right. I couldn't remember.

I want to say sixty nine. I'm pretty sure sixty nine. Man he was when he was, you know, younger cat man. Oh man, when he he was he was terrific. Man.

That face, yeah, face that he has just catches the lights so great. And he was, I mean, and he was unredeemed. And the Odds against Tomorrow, right. Which Flynn worked on, Yeah, Flynn worked on Odds against Tomorrow. He was an assistant to like Richard Fleischer.

Yeah, so I guess that's probably where he met Robert Ryan. And yeah, so. But yeah, I mean Odds against Tomorrow work says Now, I have not read the novel that that was based on, but it's it definitely Parker esque, you know, and you know preceeds Parker, but you know, as far as movies that could be Parker movies that aren't coming from Parker books, I'd put that in that company. Gary you mentioned at the beginning, just like how tough this one was to see for a while. And yeah, Jed you mentioned the Wonner Archives disc, like that was it for a long time, Like I had the VHS, you have the Warner Archives disc.

And it's just like finally with Erro bringing this out in a proper release, and like I was so glad to see how many special features there are on this and how many great people are like their names are alongside or our names are alongside theirs, I should say, and just like wow, fucking finally because like going back and doing the research, like people didn't really care for this movie when it came out, like Richard Camby's like, uh, doesn't attempt to do anything except for past the time, you know. The Washington Post said that it was a lugubrious, derivative thriller. The San Francisco Examiner said it was a had dismal direction. Journal News that it was new heights of ineptitude, I mean, yeah, they were just slamming this like crazy, and I'm like, I don't see this being a problem.

What's like, that's so that's really kind of amazing, is it? I mean? Is it? Is it? Did they expect something different from Duval?

Or you know, did they want to epic like the god you know what I mean as interesting? Yeah? Well, and the posters at the time, like they were selling this picture in the right way that you know. I especially love the one poster image I think it might be Italian where it's the shot of Robert Duval shooting Timothy Carey in the hand. I'm like, yeah, okay, this is what I want, you know, like, this isn't selling me anything apart from what this movie is.

And I fucking love it. Yeah. I was kind of cold on it the very first time I saw it, just because it does take its time. But now it's like kind of in my fifties, I'm just like, yeah, oh yeah, this is exactly what I want. I don't know if in nineteen seventy three how I would have felt about the joke in the freeze frame ending, but which I love that they end with a freeze frame.

Talk about a seventy staple. It's great and I love that, you know, Joe Don Baker is okay, is well enough to joke around at the end. It's interesting to think about like the critic's reaction to this at the time. Well, and then you know, things that are happening in the world and toward the end of the Vietnam War, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't know maybe all that's in the mix liked and how they perceive this kind of film.

And again, I think, as you pointed out in the notes, Mike, that you know, if you show Parker, you know, Parker's not a likable guy, you know what I mean, He's not you know, he's you know, you gotta you can't. It's kind of you got to warm up the Parker, but only at a distance, you know what I mean. It's not the kind of guy you know, you go to invite a war from dinner, not he would show up, but you know what I mean. So it's so it is you know, so it's that cat unless you know it's gonna rob you. But but there's not, you know, So maybe that's part of it, because because you you do humanize this character is certainly mackl is stainly more humanized in a certain way than Parker, but it is still that feeling of that that kind of dry, that kind of dimensional one dimensional flicking in a certain way.

But also he thinks three dimensionly into how you plan these things, but but going toward that goal, and maybe that's part of it, maybe because you can't you can't really it is, it isn't. It's kind of a buddy picture, but it's not really a buddy Pitcher And maybe that's part of it. Might that that baked into this is the is the Parker DNA? And maybe that's somewhat you know, off putting to at least at that time, to to to critics. You know, well, and the last time that Parker had been on screen was five years earlier with the Split, And by seventy two we're starting to get the funnier Westlake stuff, I mean, with like Dortmunder and the Hot Rock or some robbers.

I mean, the year after this, the Bank Shot would come out, which ironically had Joanna Cassidy in it. And then I didn't know that Weslake created Supertrain. Do you guys remember that? Oh my god, no, it was yeah kid, yeah, okay, you remember this show where was basically like a train going from stations. It was like The Love Boat, but on a train.

And I've only seen webin episode and that episode I watched because Timothy Carey was in it. I'm digging up, I'm digging up Supertrain. That's great, that is hilarious, that is perfect. But yeah, I don't know if people just weren't ready for that, And I don't know like what kind of weight Duval was caring at this point. Like I said, he had just done The Godfather the year before, and even with that, there's a lot of humor to Tom.

You know that when he meets with the studio executive and it's just like, you know, call him a guinea and a wop and he's just like, I'm Dutch Irish and he's like, all right, my crowd MC friend. Like you see almost like a little smile on Deval's face, and I'm like, all right, yeah, Tom Hagen doesn't take any shit, but you know, he does have a little bit of a sense of hem. He's probably the most reasonable of the brothers. He was James Gray, the director who was saying them, well, Maybe it may or may not have been James Grave, some some recent director talking about the best you know what, maybe it was Christopher McQuary. I'm gonna say Christopher McQuary, uh talking about Duval, you know, being what's the best, what's the greatest of all performance?

And you know, everybody wants to say, oh, it's it's apocalypse. Now it's you know, Charlie don't surf and you don't get this. He said, No, the best Duvall performance is Tom Hagen is the very the very soft spoken fan because because Duval himself is this kind of explosive, larger than life presence. He said that that, Yeah, when he's really really dialed down and kind of quiet, and like, that's that's the you know, Duvalls really tamping down a whole lot to get there. That's that's quite a performance.

So now, kay, I can't take that letter because in the court of law it could be shown that I know where Michael's whereabouts are. Yeah, he's just so calm about all that has to have a drink before he can go up and tell his down about the son being killed. Yeah, jenmen, is there anything else we want to talk about? The outfit. I'm specifically trying not to retreat too much of the commentary just.

For the no. I think we've we've hit a good, good balance here. I guess we spoiled it for some who We're going to listen to this and then hopefully others who took your advice, Mike and turned off off in the beginning and then go watch it they come back. So yeah, yeah, yeah, no, if you, if you listen to this and and we ruined it for you, sorry, but yeah, I warned. You exactly does that's right?

I told you, I told you. All I want is my goddamn money. I don't understand the problem there, really. I can't tell it to you anything, can I tell you any simple? I mean really?

Well, yeah, hopefully this is now going to get a reappraisal and other people will be able to enjoy this as much as we did, because this is a fun one, you know, and and it definitely for me in the Parker Cannon, it's definitely up towards the top. You know, I've I've seen quite a few, not every single one of them. There are still some that I haven't tracked down or you know, well you. Mentioned another French one that I had. I knew about the Goddard thing, but I didn't know about this other one you mentioned, which Oh yeah, yeah I've seen that one.

Yeah it's pretty good. Uh yeah, I found it on some you know, Russian Warrens or something like that. But I have the hud Ford. I have the hood Ford. Okay, Gary, I can hook you up.

I'll send you a link to it and subtitle file and everything. Son, And I say that as somebody who saw slagh Ground, and I defire you to tell me what really what that movie is about. But that's that's probably that's that's the subject of a whole nother kind. I love how open Stark is or Westlake is when it comes to his own adaptations. Just like nope, nope.

Constantine, the the actor who played who played the Parker character in Misasak. Yeah, he's a good he's a you know, just a you recognize him from other French crime films especially, but you know, just a very he looks formidable. Oh, very good. All good, that's great, that's great. Yeah, I really need to watch it.

I can't remember what the story was with that, but I think I was the one that uploaded it to a torrent site with the hopes of it actually getting subtitled, and then some somebody subtitled it for us, so freaking fantastic. So fan subs, are you know a Blessing from Heaven? There's a film credited. Oh yeah, you're talking about the man with the Getaway Face. Yeah.

Yeah, and I can't find hide Her Hair of it anywhere. But yeah, it's credited to to Westlake as an adaptation. Yeah, both on IMDb and the letterboxed but I yeah, I can't find it. It's from nineteen sixty three. So my goodness, is that right?

And it's it's it looks like a Spanish language adaptation, but like, yeah, when I caught up how a space to Spain? I don't know. Yeah, I'll be damn really, but I can't find anything. Have never never been able to find that one. Then, you know, to the point where I wonder if it was even finished, you know, like maybe it was something that was started and shot but but never released or for some reason.

But yeah, it would definitely be interested in credit. I mean, so it's not not totally a bootleg production or. I mean it's on IMDb, which doesn't can't really be trusted for a lot. But there is a there's a wonderful website people need to check out called the Violent World of Parker. It's just Violent Worldoparker dot com and Trent that runs that site.

He does his due diligence. So what he was saying is, what are the possibilities here. Here's what I see as them. The movie likely has nothing to do The movie has nothing to do with the man with the get a fake get away face. This isn't over zealous IMDb editor scenario.

That's probably most likely. Uh, and he just like lists off all of his things. I'm like, all right, but you know he's He's who I worked with when it came to Misasak and trying to get that subtitled. But yeah, I highly recommend that if people enjoy Parker, enjoy our conversation, definitely check out Violent World of Parker because yeah, he keeps up on this stuff too, which is great. It's not a dead site.

You know, he actually is writing about play dirty and things. So yeah, I didn't notice that, that's right, that's point. I love his passion. I mean, any anybody who's that obsessive about stuff like me, I yeah, please keep it up. Should definitely.

I would point people to another Parker site too, called the Tough Business. I don't know if you know this site. It's it's newer, it's not quite as exhaustive as that one, but it's run by a couple of women, Alyssa and Shay. I don't I'm not sure what their last names are, but they they've got a bunch of cool artwork. They're going to be featured in this arrow release as well, so wonderful.

Nice check them out. But they've got a Yeah, they've got a site called Tough Business, a Parker site. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. Looks really good. Well, I'm glad you know, all these years later and we're still talking about Parker.

It's fantastic. Guys. Thank you so much for joining me on this discussion of the outfit. I really appreciate this. So Gary, I know you've got a new book coming out the hall, but I do want to thank you for sending me three bullet Opera recently.

Was really niceing a very familiar name. In that with doctor Mabusa showing up. But so yeah, just a quick blatant self promotion dropping I guess dropping when when people hear this episode. I have a heist novel called The Hall coming out, and you will see in the book where I've been inspired. My character O'Connor, who I've used a couple of times before, is definitely inspired by Parker and and and the his uh misadventures.

UH And I freely acknowledged this, and I say it, and it's gonna it's gonna be in print. In the book, I riff on two of the Parker novels, in particularly one we brought up earlier, the Split, which was the seventh UH. And in the book, they rob a uh, they'll rob a pro game, they rob a college game. But it's the same setup. It's a it's a stadium where they that they're robbing.

And in Deadly Edge, I think uh Westlok like the idea so much. And Deadly Edge, they're on the roof of an old arena and they're cutting through the roof during this rock concerence going on and again the same set of where they're gonna rob the box office. So in the Hall, it's modern day, so there's really no box office to rob because you know everybody uses credit card and Benmo et cetera. But uh, two folks out here in the Southland, they'll they'll recognize who are modeling this on. There's a tech bro who owns a pro basketball team and he's built them a new arena in Inglewood, which is the city next door to are my City, LA.

And at the bottom of the in the bottom of the arena is one of his hidden swank bunkers. Because it because all the all the one percent of the one percent are all into these really fancy, well laid out bunkers, you know, waiting for the collapse of society or the zombie, a pockets or whatever it is the hell they're waiting for. But through some insider information, i'llah, like a Parker novel, O'Connor, a symbols, a small type crew and they're going to rob the bunker during the opening ceremonies. Sounds fantastic. I can't wait to read it.

I always enjoy your stuf, Gret. I appreciate it. Where's the best place for people to keep up with you and your stuff? I actually have a website that somewhat is kept up because my wife is the tech person. It's just Gdphillips dot com.

And jeded Die what's going on with you lately? You can find me on this Errow Outfit release and a couple other releases coming up that I'm excited to be part of. But yeah, you can find me at the Blue skuy is the only social media right now. Well, and I follow you on Letterbox. It's always fun seeing just how many frickin' movies do you watch?

Sir. If I got a superpower, I guess that that'd be it, right, And you know, I don't watch good movies mostly it's mostly trash. You watch a lot of stuff that I'm just like, ooh, I want to check that out. So I appreciate your Letterbox for sure. Well, thank you so much guys for being on the show.

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