Special Report: When the Germans Bombed Pearl Harbor

Oh he is boot. It's showed. People say good money to see this movie. When they go out to a theater. They want cloth shots, popcorn in the monsters in the Protection Booth.

Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. It's an animal House, sproute, finished, a paper expelled. It's a film about how one term and a certain college fraternity can change a clean upstanding kid believe they threw up in front of the warmer into a shambling, degenimate fact. Drunken stupid is no way to go through life. So National Lampoon's Animal House certificate double A in the West End and all over London.

Now, hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth. I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, I'm talking with Jeff Nelligan. He has written a very serious, completely unseerious book about Animal House, arguing that it is not just a dumb comedy, it's a rebellion story that provides a good glimpse at how we think about heroes, institutions, and authority. Name of the book is when the German bomb Pearl Harbor Animal House in Western intellectual thought.

It is very much a satire, though it reads very much like a close reading of Animal House. I had a lot of fun with it. I think you will too. Check out mister Nelligan's books at nelligan dot com. That's N E L L I G A n dot com.

Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoyed this interview. Tell me a little bit about some of your other books that you've written. One it's so similar to this one is another kind of faux academic study of Caddyshack, another period piece comedy, and that actually did pretty well. A lot of golfers bought it, like thousands, so I really looked out. I've had a lot of good fortune with books.

I wrote about parenting, helping raise my three sons, and so I wrote a book Four Lessons from My Three Sons, in which I talked about how they grew up and their passage through childhood, adolescents and to some rather good colleges and to military careers. All three are military officers. And last one probably is the most interest is that I wrote one about my time in politics in Washington, d C. Tales from the Squamp. So what brought you to write about caddy Shack?

And then eventually National Lampoon's Animal House. I'm glad you put National Lampoon's Animal House. I tried to put that in there all the time. I was at a meeting with a bunch of colleagues about six months ago, and we were sorting through this issue and one guy said, if we fix it that way, they're going to put us on double secret probation. And I'm in this room with three generations of individuals and all of them laugh, including the women in the room.

I just had an epiphany and I thought, my goodness, this movie is so ingrained in pop culture. And then I thought, I'd love to revisit this. This movie one of my favorites top five. And then I thought, do it the mock academic way. I e.

It is about a college, favor college. And the third thing was just to give a little bit of a break from the doom scrolling and the unsettledness and disunity and politics. And so that's why I put it together. What's your history with the movie itself. You know, Avid Fan.

But another part of it too was I went to a school. There was a small New England college like Faber, a place called Williams in North northwest Massachusetts, which was about two hours from Dartmouth, about which the movie was made about the highjinks there, and the Faber setting was so similar to the setting at the school I went to. We didn't have frats, but it was that kind of place where there were jokesters everywhere. The school administration was less of an authoritarian thing you'll see in Animal House, but I had that real good glimpse of what a small liberal arts college is like, and that was really invaluable. No dead horses in the dean's office or anything like that.

Nothing that got that out of control. No, but the toilets exploded in spring. That actually happened, believe it or not. Yes, When did you first see the movie? Nineteen seventy eight, when I was instill in college, So seeing the Faber College versus the Williams situation was such a It wasn't a mirror image, but it was pretty darn close.

So yeah, right when it first came out. Being in Washington, d C. And then doing what I did in politics and in Congress, you would always hear these lines double secret probation, some outstanding guys will pledge or they won't pledge at all. I state your name just you would continually hear these things in a joker manner among men. But as the movie kind of just lingered on like very unusual, you'd appreciate this.

It was made for about three point one million bucks, and it's gross out at the end of twenty twenty five was six hundred and seventy one million. There are movies last Night would give anything to have a quarter of that take at the box office, you know. So the enduring quality of it is amazing to me. And as I said, when you can sit in a room with three generations of people and they all laugh at a joke from a nearly fifty year old movie. What is your kind of a butch?

When you go okay, I'm going to turn my attention towards Animal House, And how are you going to figure out how you want to write that book? It's too easy to do a chronological study of it. You and I have no illusions. I've listened to your podcast. You guys are reviewing and looking at some very serious, gripping films with great cinematography and great scripts.

This thing is just the opposite. It's just a nutty fun house. So I just didn't want to do a chronological look at it. I wanted to think, how could you organize this? And I think you got six characters, seven characters really, who are just such standouts, and if you keep the description brief enough and highlight where they star, it's a manageable task.

You know. The history of the movie. Actually a book has been written about that. It was called Fat, Drunk and Stupid by Marty Simmons, who is the producer of it and a national lampoon patriarch, and it's a great book. It's very funny, and it talks about the production.

And I know a lot about the production of it and the background just because of reading the Simmons book and reading about anything I could find on Animal House. You look at those extravaganzas last night, and then you contrast it with a movie made in thirty one days for three million bucks, ending up with something like nearly two hours of film that they had to edit down to about one hundred and nine minutes. It's amazing. It may not have been the first slobs versus snobs comedy, but this really set the stage for so many imitators afterwards. Exactly, and you look at all the movies that followed to Caddyshack was a year later, and the Ultimate Snobs Versus Slobs, and then the Porky's movies and a little Bit of Stripes and all those movies bouncing off of it, and the guys who put it together, John Landis, Harold Ramis, those guys having further real success with comedies.

And I think, similar to Caddyshack, the whole idea of a lot of this being based on the true history of some of these writers and producers. Yes, the fellow who wrote the book, Chris Miller, actually wrote a book about the real Animal House at Dartmouth. And I've been to Dartmouth a number of times, went to Williams two and so we would go up there for games. He played lacrosse, I played football. But yeah, Miller went there.

And actually so much of it is taken from his time at Dartmouth. And of course I know Ramis had some stories from Washington University where he went. They could combine the two. Caddy shack, Bill Murray knew a ton about golf. He's a caddy for goodness sake, so real caddy.

Yeah, you're right, personal experiences forming the. Script, the politics that are going on setting this in sixty two, having the JFK float, the idea of having the college professor basically be a standard for Satan. There's so many great things to us. The threatening clouds of war and that they're all going to be drafted, the racial aspect of it, and that aspect, which they handled I think pretty well. In fact, they I had different black entertainers look at, for example, that dexter Lake club scene to ensure that it wasn't something that would be antagonizing, and they all loved it, so they kept it in.

I always appreciate I can't remember if it's Boone or Otter that kind of gives a shout out to Otis when he's playing at the Toga party and Otis gives okay, and it gives him that like blank, look, I have no idea who the hell you are. And I'm always like, that's great because you're trying to make this inroad. Hey, yeah, we saw you at that club or whatever. The guy just like, I don't know who the hell you are, white. Boy, Yeah exactly, he goes.

Otis loves us. Revisiting the movie through your book just puts such a warm place in my heart where it just was like, how many times have I seen this movie? And this just it was demanding that I rewatch it again. Oh my gosh, how many times do you think you've seen it? Mike?

Just guess half a dozen. Honestly, because it was on cable when I was younger, and then you had scenes like the women's dormitory, the sorority, probably twenty thirty times. Oh my goodness. That's amazing, because again, I know that you deal with some high intellect stuff at what you've reviewed and talk about. And I have no illusions about the movie other than yeah, it's six hundred and seventy one million in counting, and like I said last night, some of those are some of those movies will never even break even domestically.

And I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm just saying these serious prestige films. At the same time, you have a comedy which it can overturn moral seriousness without even trying and without working hard. Well, yeah, and they tried to catch lightning in a bottle like having the class reunion. And then wasn't there even a TV show that was based on Animal House as well?

There sure was. It was called Delta House and it lasted first season eleven episodes and just went away. I think part of it is just the cast, the incredible cast of this movie and seeing so many of these actors that you had never seen before. I don't remember if there if Kevin Bacon was in anything prior to this. I know that Tom Holse was very early in his career with this.

Yeah, for goodness sakes, how many guys last Night would have done anything to be even or even even in the room. And there's Holts playing Pinto and probably I want to say, twenty three years later, he's winning an oscar. He's the man. And Karen and Allen the Indiana Jones, which is a paycheck for life. And Tim Matheson who just kept going and going and going.

All those guys had those careers and in the casting of it, which they gave an award for Last Night, most of these guys, Matheson was probably the biggest star of them all. They only bought Donald Sutherland because they needed one big stars as a reassurance to the money behind it, and they only he It was back and forth negotiation and finally he said I'll just take thirty three thousand bucks and no residuals, and I'll be there for a day. It's such a crazy nutty thing put together and just hitting that lightning, as you said, to become this thing that three generations. My kids they're military officers, and they're pretty hard men, but they and they're enlisted guys around their officers with enlisted guys underneath them.

They know the movie. For gosh sakes, we're talking guys that are twenty five to twenty eight years old who can quote lines from it. How does that happen? And particularly in this kind of age, when it's just a torrent of every thing that's modern and little that is from wayback. Yeah, I'm sure dropping give me twenty doesn't age in the military.

A pledge pin on your uniform, all those kind of things that would just come up. And again, not only would this machio guys that are caveman almost anybody. Did you have any challenges writing this book? Being completely candid here? I hoped it was funny.

I can laugh over it and the Delta construct the new challenge, the John Claude rest scenes seventeenth century anti hero paradigm, and I thought, am I reaching too far or not, and I wanted to make sure it was funny. You can recite the scenes and you can get a lot of laughs out of that, but you just hope it holds together. That someone doesn't say, and again I'm being candid, doesn't say this is just a recitation of the movie, which I love. I could watch it again. And I think also the part of it is keeping it short.

It's only thirteen thousand words. It's a very short book, so I think keeping that humor going, but also to getting people. I love the way you ended it, just the way you described reading it, feeling a little bit up at the end that this was a funny movie. In these there are some funny things in this book and in life. Again, I'd like to get away from the heaviness and the grimness that seems and this is something you use, you note a lot, or you show the opposite.

Again, I'll use the word grim the heaviness, the seriousness, and the futility. This is just the opposite. And the last comedy to win an Oscar was Birdman twenty fifty and even that had some dark tones to it, and I'm not sure that any comedy and then of course, the Deadpool series is listed as a comedy, but that's special effects and manufactured violence and all that. The really and you probably have seen them all. I would imagine Caddy Shack, the Vacation series, stripes, blazing saddles, you know, mel Brooks's movie things that they don't pass serious muster.

Again, I have no illusions about the artistry of these things, but for God's sakes, it's something that sticks with you in a kind of a positive, upbeat way that you know, last night was just a walk through a graveyard and going I'm going back to that because that just seems to be that's the current state of film. Maybe you disagree with that, or maybe you have there's a better take on it, but from my simplistic viewpoint, it's just it's really tough. And yeah, we're still talking about all of these things. There's still a lot of these are viable properties. They just had the remake sequel ish thing for a Vacation and you see them trying to resurrect these things.

Talking about the oscars last night, I think the reminder of Bridesmaids, that was what they say fifteen years ago, and that was really one of the last major successful comedies. I can think of. Fifteen years ago when they walked out and they look pretty good, and they have some tour with the SNL cast or maybe three and then Ellie who's from the Office of All Places. Yeah, I like the way you put about the franchise. I recently saw The Naked Gun and I thought the original was pretty clever.

Again, this is not prestige filmmaking. It's just nuttiness. But boy, it has a script in writing that really carries it along. Yeah. No, And that's one of the things I like about Animal House too, is like you've got your major threads going through, but then you have so many of those just little vignette moments like the I bought My love of Flower, Like that whole thing with the guitar and all that.

That's just a real You could cut that out in a heartbeat, but it adds so much to it. Going back to that whole the kind of the time capsule that it was in the beginning of the hippie movement and youth culture. And there's that guy who's the avatar of it all with the guitar and the long hair, Stephen Bishop of all people who made it big later on. Yeah, that Bride'smaids. That was really stunning to see that, to think, oh my gosh, that was funny.

And that was about the only funny thing about the whole production other than the beginning with Colin is Madigan, which is very clever. Oh my gosh, that was good. I like that. I like the end where he was parroting Sean penn in one battle after another. But yeah, those other moments like Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr.

What the hell was that thing? Oh my gosh. And Robert Downey Jr. You talk about a really talented guy. I've seen him in the Sherlock films.

Oh my goodness, just phenomenal. But yeah, wow, And again, I'm not even a big movie guy, but I always watched that because it just gives me a sense of where the culture is. And man, that's rough. It's always difficult to talk about comedies, So I applaud you for being able to give serious study to comedies because I'm always too tempted to get in there and be like, oh, let's talk about all the funny lines, rather than trying. To dig a little deeper, which is what I feel that you did.

With your book. It's a gag thing, but it's a story of rebellion and against authority, and that at the time that became the signature of the nineteen sixties, and these guys hit it in seventy eight. Obviously they'd seen it all. But it's the bad guys, the Omegas versus the less bad guys Delta. There's no good and evil.

They can't be drawn that contrast. Evil's pretty evil. We saw some of it last night, but also too Again, I always go back to comedy is so enduring and that it's for people like yourself, real connoisseurs of the art that understand the deeper meaning and why it's important. So what's next for you? I'd like to do something about the Vacation series Vegas European, the original obviously Christmas Vacation.

The Vacation too with ed Nell Helms was just not trying too hard. And I'm willing to give any comedy the benefit of a doubt, but just looking at that in a funny way. Again, because Mirror is an American fan, I grew up in a family like that. We would take those trips. My dad was always trying to make everything great for his kids and his wife, my mom.

I like the fact that they cover real America. They have all the typical jokes, the whole Wally World thing, you know them. They're I guess in Chicago and they get their car wheels stolen, they get so they hit that all the tropes. But that would be a fun thing to look at and to look at the different scenes. European Vacation is another funny one.

I've been to Europe. I know that that was pretty damn accurate in many ways. And Christmas Vacation, of course, that probably is the signature piece of the series, just because again it's got that seasonal feel and people love it. Cousin Eddie is a classic character. You know you can Cousin Eddie is another archetype in kind of American culture where you can mention that name anywhere.

You can mention that name in an elevator and half the people know who you're talking about. At least. That's always my kind of That's the test if you say something, how many people within an immediate vicinity of all ages, places, races, whatever are going to get it? But that's a pipe dream. This thing just actually went up on Kindle today and it goes up on Amazon tomorrow, so I'm going to be trying to hustle it again just because it's provides some relief.

Is this self published? Yes, it was a No agent would touch it. I can understand why. Come on, I bought the art from Alami, and then I have an editing firm that does the work that did my other books. And it's pretty simple to put together thirteen thousand words.

I could stretch it to one hundred pages, so I got a spine on it, and yeah, and trying to keep it short and then with enough gags in it that no, AI, no can't they can't under AI can't understand the complexity. It's enough gags, but to keep it short and enough. It's too easy to overburden the reader. But that kind of stuff, it's fun. This whole really, all these books started when my last kid went to college.

He went to West Point, he left. I came home literally from driving him up there, and I'm sitting in my backyard with a cigar and a bunch of red bulls, just going, now, what the heck am I going to do? Literally? Literally, I have all this time. Obviously, I worked during the day, but I wanted to do something and they that's what ensued.

If you've done self published books, they do take the effort. I take the discipline too. Where's the best place for people to pick this up? Mike? The best place to get the book is my website, New Elegant Books, and I also have an IG account called the Faber College Review, under which I put a lot of my satire writing.

But the best place is neleganbooks dot com. Mister Melligan, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate this. Hey, Mike, thanks for having me, and I just love the fact that you're looking at comedy and maybe this will give the listeners here something that buoy them up these times. I gave my love a cherry that had no stone.

I gave my love a chicken that had no bone. I gave my love a ring that had no end. I gave my love a baby with no cry. How can there be a cherry without any stone? How can there be a chicken that had no bone?

How can there be a ring that had no end? How can there be a baby with no cry? M h a cherry when it's blooming, it. Has no stones? A chicken when it's pippin' has no bone, A ray when it's rolling.

Has no end. A baby when it's sleeping has no cry. I gave my love a cherry that had no stone. I gave my love a chicken that had no bone. I gave my love a ring that had no end.

I gave my love a baby with no cry.