132: Raising Arizona Fest

All right we're here at the ringer tough we. Need to uh. Discuss this at any great length? Do we need to discuss the ringer toss? I don't know.

It's the kind of thing you might have to see. The following program is a proud member of the Palover family of podcasts. Check out all the shows over at palover.com. That's P-A-L-A-V-R dot com. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America.

It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power. What do you think they do there? They don't drink milkshakes, I assure you. What's up, and welcome to Movie Meltdown.

I'm Brian. I'm Fred. I'm Marlena. I'm Greg. I'm Lucy.

Alright, and we are coming to you live via digital recording, but literally we are live in the parking lot of the bowling alley from Lebowski Fest. So... Yeah, we wandered around. Do we have comments about Lebowski so far? Well, we saw some of the activities.

They had some games. They had a game where they bounce a blow-up doll on a sheet over a line and catch it again. And everybody I saw do that did it well. The marmot toss also looked doable. The bowling ball from the car to hit a mannequin of a nihilist that was impossible everybody kept missing that until one guy just nailed it and I got it on film.

I think they refer to that as the ringer toss yes the ringer toss and it is pretty impressive to watch when that one guy hits it everybody else goes oh that was way off but. Then that guy nailed it and one guy sort of like tapped it at the base and it was like yay because you know nobody was anywhere near but you were like okay somebody got it but this one guy gets in there Boom! He must, like, practice that in his backyard or something. He probably does have a Lebowski car sitting in his... If not, he can win this one in parking.

This is the one time in his life when that skill, you know, was like. Finally! Yeah. And he won a box of Snap-N-Pops, by the way. Yes.

That's your big prize. It is for charity, so. Oh, I thought when they won, they got all the money that would go to charity. I thought that was way funnier. I was kind of hoping they were doing that.

Screw you sick children. I hit the ringer. Fuck you. Maybe they'll try that next year. Alright, any other Lebowski goings-on for the moment?

People are getting very liberal with the costume ideas. I like seeing the people walking around who look like they're dressed up as something, but you don't know what it is. I guess they're just people who, you know. Come to Lebowski Fest. Yeah.

They look like somebody. They look like somebody extra. Yeah. Yeah. Me too.

We came dressed as dorks, don't we? Well, okay, you're right. At least three-fifths of us, anyway. You guys are fine in the middle there, but. The rest of us are all wearing dorky Movie Geek t-shirts, most of which say Movie Meltdown.

I'm sure this has been covered before, but I just don't understand when, like... Why isn't there a Raising Arizona Fest? I've wondered that when this took off that first year. I mean, that's the thing. It's awesome, and it's amazing how much of a following it's built up.

The fact that it's going around to different cities across the country. It's like everywhere. Yeah, across the country. I think it's just because there's a tie-in with an event. Like the bowling, I think, is the thing that makes it.

Yeah, I've ran a Blood Simple Fest for a few years, but... It was very somber and not very well attended. I ran a Raising Arizona Fest where we stole babies. Didn't work too well. Yeah, that makes sense, I guess.

Every day I run a Man Who Wasn't There Fest. Every day. I think that closed out that. Portion of the discussion. Alrighty.

But yeah, I've kind of wondered. It's funny how this one just took off about one random movie. And yeah, it's amazing how the following has... grown and we are now in the 10th annual this is the 10th anniversary for the initial and we are the birthplace here in louisville we have to at least claim that we we don't have much damn it but you. Know fried chicken. Fried chicken baseball bats lebowski fest that's really all we got you.

Know i feel like there's one other thing in that list now but. Booze bourbon yeah horses. Horses hey we've got a lot going for us we. Did get nuked and but we did get nuked that's right turn of the living dead oh yeah that's right I brought that up last time zombies so yeah um other than that I guess. We can still continue on in our normal dorky.

Fashion um just to cut it down a little bit and cause just about everything I've done this week is in preparation for this or upcoming episodes so I'm just gonna bypass mine and let you guys have your geek activities so Greg were you first on the rundown. Oh wow okay So I did probably, I passed on a geek activity to my child. Uh-oh. Yeah. About two weeks ago, I decided my seven-year-old was old enough to start reading the Harry Potter series, at least the first book.

So we read through it together, and she loved it. She would, you know, lay in bed at night afterwards, and her only books so far have been, like, the puppies at the pound that get, and nothing exciting happening or anything like that. Or no mystery involved or anything like that. Adventure. And this just really opened her eyes.

And now she wants to read anything she can get her hands on. You've made a nerd. Way to go. Right. Right.

She was a little intimidated by a few chapters. I think it is a little scary. And then last night we watched. The Sorcerer's Stone the first time. And I can report this morning, they were up, and she's the oldest of all the neighbor kids.

There were four kids running around the cul-de-sac with brooms between their legs. They were pretending like they were Harry Potter. So, yeah, I've created a geek, which is exactly what I intend to do in my life. Geek, spaghet, geek. Right, so she's going to...

We're going to slowly introduce her to them because they do get a little scarier along the way. But, yeah, she wants to buy and read and see all the movies. So I'm very proud of myself. Exceptionally geeky, and you've passed it on to the next generation, which is really what we're all about. Right.

Continuing this little geek fest. Right. Next week I'm going to introduce Ridicule to her. So she's prepared. You're just going to make fun of her and push her down and punch her in the arm every time she walks by.

And this is what a bloody nose is. And this is, you know. Well, once she gets back to school, you won't have to do that. Right. And we're going to rub dirt in your hair so that people can make fun of you.

You know, that kind of stuff. It's about that. That's not true. That's not true. Just teach her to kick everybody's ass.

That's the real thing. Right. Right. Now she. What's cool is, like I said, the neighbor boys, they're kind of like the cool sports kids, and they were right along with her immediately.

Which, for some reason, I don't know what it is. Even the cool kids seem to really take to the story. I don't know what it is about it, but it's a story that everybody can be kind of a geek with. Freaking Malfoys. That's right.

So anyway, that's really all I have to share. I finally saw Iron Man 2, and I can't believe they made that movie. Okay, thank you. It wasn't just me, then. Oh, my Lord.

What happened? The first one is so good. Right. The first one did something really original with that basic idea. I mean, it found a way to take a basic old superhero story and modernize it, and yet not lose the basic elements, you know, the basic element, the basic, you know, storyline of what they were trying.

To do and yeah then they blew it all to hell in. The second one well the second one is just people standing around talking and i mean i i appreciate talking when there's good dialogue you know but it's supposed to be a big blockbuster action movie and it was forever until there was actually an action sequence yeah and it was It was pretty lame, and I'm like, why'd they bring this character in? That's the thing, it was so unfocused. I mean, there's times when it has good moments. I mean, Mickey Rourke's amazing to watch.

He's out of his damn mind, right it kind of works in that character and then they stop focusing on that character and you're like what the hell are you doing why are you bringing in this quote-unquote super villain and then he's sitting in a cell half the movie and you switch to another villain and they just they can't focus on what they want and this happens in most of those superhero movies specifically the sequels as they go on so I don't know why nobody's learned anything from the last failed attempt. I just love how it took Jon Favreau to make Don Cheadle a bad actor. Yeah, really. The fact that they switched out is kind of lame. That was a little controversy anyway, because they switched actors from one movie to the next, and then you'd think they're bringing in a pretty good name, but yeah, that just makes no sense, that whole part.

I don't get it. It's like Don Cheadle got Cuba getting juniored. He would have been awesome in that role. Yeah. He's already kind of cheesy.

Yeah, it wouldn't have hurt the movie at all. So is that it for you, Greg? Yeah, that's pretty much it. I mean, I wasn't going to bring up Iron Man 2, but I was pretty much disappointed in it. Yeah, we all kind of know where's the sad part.

All right, who wants to be next? I didn't really watch much in the last, I don't know, Two months. It's been since I've been on the show. You're out of the team. Yeah.

Well, you guys have been doing it on Saturday, and I've had. To work late. That was one time. Really? It feels like five Saturdays.

Well, nevertheless, I've worked for like the last five Saturdays, which I really hate working Saturdays. I don't know why. It's just like you just get that feeling like in clerks where you're not supposed to be there, and you're just angry that you're not supposed to be there. It's Saturday, and I don't work on Saturday, but I am, and it's just really annoying. But I did watch Drive Angry.

Which is awesome. And retarded. I think you've been a liberal with the word awesome. I mean, it was definitely fun, I guess. You obviously weren't listening to last week.

No, I guess not. Certain members rave about that one. Is it Misty? Oh, Misty loved that movie. Her movie tastes like baffle me.

It makes no sense, I swear to God. You can't even pinpoint it. It's just like, I don't know. It has more to do with her attitude than it does the quality of a movie. Yeah.

Sometimes it really does. Yeah, I think if she was in a good mood that day, then she's like, that was an awesome movie. But it still works on its level. And that's almost why I give that one a pass. I was just like, it knows how bad it is.

It completely owns up to how bad it is. And it just says, fuck it. It throws the rules out the window. And it realizes what a ridiculous premise it is. How bad Nicolas Cage is.

It takes all of that stuff and just finds a way to work with it. Which most people just would have ended up making a bad movie. But this is above and beyond. This is just fun... correct up to 10 because it's just that's because they know they don't have to do anything else but be fun you don't have to worry about good dialogue or acting or any of that it's just blow shit up and have him say bad lines that's you know you can deliver. On that you know it's like for a long time i've really just hated nicholas cage but now he's just like this absurd cult like no one really thinks of him as this great action star he's just kind of this like it's just dumb to put him in a movie and they're like yeah this is gonna be awesome So I've kind of learned to love him in that way.

I mean, aside from Raising Earth, and of course, which is totally different. We'll get to that later. Ghost Rider and Con Air, any of these movies, he's just so terrible that you have to love it. It's like a weird, there needs to be a Con Air festival where people, like, I don't know. Ride, plane, I don't know.

I haven't figured. Out the specifics of it. Do they throw bunnies into a box or something? I'd see that. I'd come to that.

Some type of activity can be linked to Con Air, I'm sure. Throw the bunny in a box. Yeah. But I like the part especially in Drive Angry where he was having sex with that waitress and she was like, why are your pants still on and he was like I don't like to get naked before a gun fight and all these people come in and he's like shooting at them and having sex with his waitress and drinking occasionally out of a Jack Daniels bottle and I'm just like that. Is awesome well and yeah at least they addressed it she asked the question that I ask in most sex scenes why are you still wearing your clothes because you didn't sign in your contract that you would get naked is the real reason but I'm just like then don't shoot a sex scene But at least theirs was so stupid they just said, oh, yeah, I'm wearing my clothes because in a minute I'm going to.

Shoot a lot of people. I don't necessarily think. I mean, like, he wouldn't have to get naked. He'd have to get shirtless. Something.

I mean, maybe he's just a little flabby. Maybe he had a bunch of puddin' pops before filming or something. But I think that was written in there specifically. I don't know. I'm sure it was.

I just think it's so ridiculous in most movies when just because, you know, the actor doesn't want to get naked. Well, I'm like, then don't shoot it in a way that they should be naked and then make it where they're not naked. Just don't shoot that scene. Shoot it from a different angle. Find a way to make it not look so stupid that they're sitting in bed having sex and they're damn near fully clothed.

Half the time. It makes no sense to me. When a couple has just had sex in a movie and the woman, like, demurely, like, covers. I don't know women who do that. It's a little late now.

I've watched a lot of movies recently that maybe had an R rating, maybe PG-13. The woman's always having sex with the bra on. Yeah, see? Because that happens all the time? Really?

I mean, honestly, that would be ideal, really. Because, I mean... When you lean over, your boobs look less flattering without a bra. From a certain perspective, I suppose. Ideally, you're on top leaning forward.

Yeah, and I mean, gravity. If you're shooting this sex scene, but in the real world, you just don't. Worry about that so much. No, I worry about stuff like that. What women don't realize is dudes don't care.

But I just, like, in Bridesmaids, and I know I've talked about this movie a lot, but she, like, is always wearing a bra, and I'm just like, that's weird. Nobody does that. The last movie I noticed was that Reese Witherspoon movie where she was, like, wearing a bra, but I was grateful for that. Yeah. Come on, we've all seen those anyway.

Yeah. What movie was she top of the sun? Was it Freeway? The Paul Newman movie. Yeah, was that Paul Bestly Planned?

A friend of mine was in a movie that I probably shouldn't name because there's a criticism of it, but it's kind of a horror movie, mass killer thing, and he would kidnap these women, and all of them were naked except for the lead girl. As always. It's like, you know, it's just such a giveaway. You know because she never gets naked that she's going to live. She's the good girl.

She's the final girl. Yeah. I don't know, it's like a poker tell or something. That's what I'm saying. It defeats the plot and the suspense.

It's so ridiculous. Like, either don't shoot it that way. I'm not saying you have to make everybody naked in your movie. Just don't write it in there where they should be. We've got sidetracked.

Yeah. Was that it for yours? I think so. Alrighty. Lucy?

Am I up? I believe it's you. Okay, so I saw two movies this week. I don't know which we should discuss. Or if you've already discussed Horrible Bosses, that was the movie that I saw theatrically.

I have not seen that. And then I revisited John Huston's 1973 boxing film, Fat City, which was a favorite. That I was trying to see if it held up. And it did, I'm pleased to say. Awesome.

So, I don't know. Which one would. You like to discuss? I feel like. Or are neither.

Interesting at all. I feel like you probably should discuss the John Huston, because very few shows are going to go into that. But you're dying to know about Horrible Bosses. Actually, the reason why I watched the John Huston movie is because some friends have a radio show in Lexington called Surreal Film on WFRFL, and they're doing. A series that's, I guess, what are they calling it?

Classics Off the Beaten Path, which I thought that qualified as sort of forgotten films. Yeah. Horrible bosses soon to be forgotten it wasn't terrible it was just they spent so long trying to explain and maybe even apologize for the premise which is that it's like three normal everyday dudes that you're supposed to like who by the way really want to murder some people and so they spend a really long time trying to like set up like why it's necessary for these people to die and how they can be cold blooded killers but still be likeable Um, and I wish they'd just run with it, really. It's a fine line, but especially when they're playing it such, it seems like such a audience-friendly movie. Yeah.

Like, it seems very mainstream. So to me, if it was, like, one of those, like, super black comedies that, like, got no promotion and they just, just threw the rules out the window and made everybody kind of horrible... that could be really funny. But yeah, this one seems like it wanted to play both. Yeah, like a very bad things kind of deal. Yeah, it wanted to play it safe, but at the same time, it still wanted to pretend like.

I mean, that's our gimmick. We're going to kill people. So, I don't know. It seems like that would make it really hard to commit either way. Yeah, so there was way too much set up for me.

Ultimately, I felt it all sort of came together, dragged in parts, but it wasn't terrible. There's a lot of laughs, um, some more effective than others as in any comedy. Um, but fat city, man, that's, that's a movie. Like I am such like, and as, John Huston, uber fan. I don't think he gets the credit that he deserves at all because I think he didn't really have sort of a unifying style that people were able to identify him as an auteur and be like, this is a John Huston movie.

He just made great, well-crafted films for 50 years. He wasn't gimmicky. He was not gimmicky at all. That's unusual. He just made.

Solid films that were as relevant in the 80s as they were when he was making them in the 40s, which is. kind of impressive in that span i mean yeah how many other people delivered and delivered without it really wavering along the way without going through a slump and maybe having to come back but his was always just a pretty solid career so. That's for my movies of the week all right that's what i got i just remembered. Something else okay that i wanted to talk about i did go see midnight in paris. Oh, I love them. Yeah, it was really cute.

My only problem, like, I think I just don't like Owen Wilson that much. Like, I mean, I don't think he's a bad actor. There's just something about, like, his... The thing that bothered me about the movie, he just kind of was like, well, whatever, you know? That was just his personality.

And, I mean, I'm sure that was intentional, but it was just him. Like, his character, like, annoyed me. You know, like... At the end of the movie, spoiler alert, it's like he's got this fiance and then he's in love with someone else and then he meets this other girl and he's just like, I'm gonna go with it, whatever. But is it really, and this was my question about the whole movie, how much of it is him, his character, or him being Woody Allen? as that character, because finally Woody Allen has sort of started inserting other actors into the roles that he used to play for way too long, really.

I just thought he was very flippant, which I guess does make sense. I didn't think about it that way. I mean, it's still a valid point. To me, that's what it always felt like, is now he's just inserting other actors into that scene. He doesn't even change the character.

It's still his character. He's just giving the words to somebody else now. Honestly, Owen Wilson, I think, was my favorite of the Woody Allen surrogates, just because he sort of has his own neurotic thing that worked. So it didn't ever feel like he was doing the Woody Allen impression, which felt like Scarlett Johansson was doing, and Will Ferrell was doing, and Jason Biggs was doing. Everybody that's been in the film the last 15 years.

Who was the first one to do that? Kenneth Branagh. That's a really good question. I think it was Kenneth Branagh. I can't think of anyone before that.

The first Woody stand-in. But, yeah, it felt like Owen Wilson was just sort of being Owen Wilson, but there's that element of wittiness to it. Yeah, I mean, you can still hear it. I mean, the dialogue is always going to be Woody when he's writing it. But, I mean, sometimes people really play it up.

And I guess if you're around him all day, you probably start to sound like him anyway. You just pick that stuff up inadvertently. And I guess I didn't even think about that comparison because I haven't watched any new Woody Allen movies, you know? Like, I never watched. I'm behind most of them, actually.

I've seen one or. Two in the last few years. Yeah, so I just didn't think about that. Adrian Brody was, like, over the top. But he was Salvador Dali.

But, I mean, I thought it was funny. And I've said, like, it's a rhinoceros for, like, the last two weeks. If you watch it, that'll make sense. If you don't, it'll haunt you. Yeah, it'll haunt your life.

My problem with Owen Wilson is he always sounds like he's trying to hold about a tablespoon and a half of mashed potatoes in his mouth when he's talking. I don't know. Or something. I don't know. It's...

It's. Oddly precise. Yeah, I mean, it's like... I don't know. I don't know what it is about it, but his voice almost seems like he's holding something back, not natural, impeding himself somehow.

I don't know. He always irks me for some reason. And it's not the nose. We've gone into the nose. Yeah, you know.

No pun intended. Right. I don't know. For some reason, he worked in cars for me because I didn't have to look at him. Well, I think the thing that bothers me about Owen Wilson and not just, like, him being Woody Alley, Woody, Woody, Woody, you know what I'm trying to say.

Woody Allen. It's just he's kind of got one of those personalities where it's kind of like, You ask him what restaurant you want to go to, and he's like, oh, whatever you want. And then you go to a certain restaurant, and he's like, you know, I didn't really want to come here. You know, like, one of those people who won't make a decision. Yeah, are you writing a new movie?

Because this actually kind of sounds like a scene. Yeah. But, I mean, like, I think that's what I didn't like about his character. He's so iconic. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, he's always hanging back a little bit. Yeah. Right, like he's got mashed potatoes in him. Yeah, exactly.

How much again? About a tablespoon and a half is what. I'm thinking, yeah. But I really, that all aside, you know, my ignorance to the whole Woody Allen just like making people be him, I really liked the movie. The premise was ridiculous but fun and I think.

It really worked. Very cool. I'm just looking for the mashup with That and the John Travolta to Paris. What is it? Again, I just watched it.

The Paris with Love? Yeah. If they can mash those two up, that would be awesome. Paris from Love. Midnight in Paris with Love.

Right. That would be awesome. I don't know. Speaking of mashups, I want Randy. Randy should do this.

That rap song that's like, you fancy, huh? You fancy, huh? And the Reba McEntire song, Fancy, why hasn't someone mashed that up? Oh, wow. Why?

Why hasn't someone mashed that up? Are you sure you haven't checked YouTube? I don't know. I haven't checked YouTube. But I was listening to the country radio station and heard that Fancy song.

And I was like, why hasn't that been done? Probably because everybody's just trying to forget about Reba McEntire. Entirely. Yeah. McEntirely.

McEntirely. Okay. All right. I'm done. All right, Fred, do you have any fun activities?

Yeah, I thought of a couple of things. At first, I couldn't think of anything I'd done. But then I remembered I saw this movie called Red Road, and it's on Netflix. And there was a guy in it, and I'm like, where do I know that guy from? I've seen him in something.

And the movie, it's like a Scottish movie about a woman who watches security cameras all over the city And she gets caught up. And it's like really got a feel and a psychology to it that's very convincing. And I thought, wow, this is good. These people know what they're doing. There's something going on here.

Well, that was my initial impression. But then this guy showed up in it, and I'm like, where do I know him from? And, you know, it was hard because he looked like, the guy in Braveheart who has the big scar across his face and I'm thinking that's him but I've seen him in other movies and he still has the big scar he didn't get rid of the scar but then I realized he was in another movie I saw a while back that was also sort of a Scottish thriller I guess that's two I've seen now but he was in the other one and it was the one where he was one of these two kidnappers It was The Disappearance of. Anna... I don't know.

I forget. You need to go back and listen to all the other shows. I do remember you mentioning this one. And it was pretty good. But like that one, it sort of goes on.

It's got a really tight feel. It's really well put together. But it kind of just rolls on and then has like odd twists and they kind of withhold some information about like what happened to mess this lady up? And I could have told you that from the beginning, but it's definitely worth seeing. And in terms of the things we were saying about the coyness of movie portrayals of sexuality, this is unlike that.

It may be some of the grittiest film versions of sex I've ever seen in my life. But they all had their clothes on, right? No. At least the bra? No.

All right, this is gritty. And the cool thing about it is the woman in it is not like, and this is cool before they get into sex, she's not really, like, that good looking or anything. She's striking looking, and she can act. And she's the main character in this movie. And she has these, like, suspicions about people.

And then she gets close to him and they're like really kind of nice people and sort of the bad guy in it. You could see how he's like not really a bad guy. It sort of spoils it that they're withholding some plot twists. So it's really not as good as I wanted it to be. But all along I'm just so rooting for it because it's not like a lot of other movies.

It's got a different feel. Very distinctive, though. It's not, you know, amorphous. It's got a very definite style where they know how to convey the. Atmosphere they're trying to convey.

So that was a fun thing to see, if not really, in the end, a very satisfying movie. It was different and exciting to watch. And we finished up watching our series. I was watching with my kids, Party Down. Yeah.

Which I just loved. Just loved it. And, you know, that my kids, that my daughter, that her boyfriend, they all like it. Some reason it means something to me. like good good for you alright cause a lot of times we don't like the same stuff and I can kind of understand when you're like a teenager and you know you're under a lot of pressure and you're in a different place and daddy's skull crushingly depressing favorite films might not be what you want to watch all the time you might want something a little easier and a little you know a little less bleakness um But I did find one. This was part of my geek activity.

There's a movie I love called The Return of Martin Guare, and I couldn't find it on DVD. It's not on Netflix. It's in my, you know, waiting hole. But years ago, I wrote it on that list they have at Wild and Wooly Video. Like, get this.

And then I never checked again. Well, they've had it for a couple of years now. And I just checked the other day and they've got it. And I get to make my daughter watch this movie because she has agreed. She owes me.

Like one of my movies. I think she's found that after I get her to sit down and watch one of them, most of the time she really likes them. And I've tried to bend it a little like, okay, we won't watch Taxi Driver tonight. We'll watch this movie called Midnight Run. Sort of, yeah.

And she starts watching that and after a while she's like, what is this? And she really likes it. You know, because it's funny and. It's got that same guy in it. Different.

It's totally the same. Yeah. Yeah. A I was just going to say, I always used to get Midnight Run and Midnight Express confused when people would talk about them. Oh, yeah.

And then mention Midnight Express, I'd be like, wait, the funny Charles Grodin movie? Like, what's wrong with that? Anyway, it's caused. A lot of confusion in my life. Remember when they beat Charles Grodin's feet with a baseball bat?

That was awesome. Yeah, that was cool. That might be nice. I'd like to see that, actually. I really liked that movie, Midnight Run.

There were scenes in it that, like, stayed with me for a while. When he goes home to this little suburban ex-wife's house and his daughter comes out with her piggy bank and wants to give him her baby. That's like a good scene to put in like a joke. Sort of a joke movie and the plotting was so nicely done. I think that's what separates it.

It's written a little better than most goofy buddy comedy kind of stuff. It's actually a little smarter. You watch it and you feel like I wish I'd written that. That was clever. So that was, I think that's most of what I did.

One other thing, I looked up a movie that was the basis for a joke my mother and father had for like, I don't know how long. And she explained it to me one day. It's like, oh, that's pretty funny. It was a line from it. It's like, now you'll both work in the store.

And that was something my mom and dad would always say because it was just this super awkward scene. And she explained it to me. It was a Frank Sinatra movie. And he played like sort of the younger son who never really got it together. He always had big plans and nothing ever worked out.

And he's sort of like, he was a character who would be played now by Robert Downey Jr. I think, probably. But he's trying to gets his family to lend him some money like his older brother the responsible one and he's trying to convince him that he's going to get married and settle down so he brings this woman to dinner and and at some point uh the sister-in-law says now you'll both work in the store and starts outlining their future together and she's just completely blindsided you know she's just on a date um And that was the way. My mother told it. But if you watch the movie, no, no, she's wrong.

She's misremembered it. And made it a lot funnier than it was. Not your mother. She would never do that. Yeah.

Yeah, well, you know how moms sometimes have a different reality playing in their movie theater than the one that everybody else is watching? It's mom brain. But I've done that too. I've misremembered scenes of movies and remembered them sort of they were more striking than they really were or i've seen a movie again after years and it's like no i remember it differently or lines from books you know there's this but so yeah i'm you know fact checking my mom um but yeah so i watched this old it was called a hole in the head and it took me forever to find it from just that one line that situation And once I figured out that Edward G. Robinson was in it, then it all came together.

I found the movie. I think that's most of. My geek activity. Up until this point. Well, that's a serious tour bus.

No kidding. Shocking tours. They do like Marilyn Manson and Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga. I share a bus.

She really just is a dude. I want to know who's getting off of this turret. Probably a bunch of 70-year-olds. Seniors going bowling. Oh, no, it totally is.

I'm not sure I remember, but was Moses and a baseball player together? were they characters in big lebowski because i saw them walking by. It's the director's cut you gotta watch those extra scenes. Yeah yeah i could see the coen brothers doing that though kind of yeah director's cut all about this stuff that wasn't in the movie didn't they do something like that in one movie They had, like, a fake director thing. Well, one of their commentaries, or at least one of theirs, they were, like, in character the entire time. Like, they were.

Another group of director, producer, and, like, sat there and gave character commentary. That's right. I remember. I don't remember which one it was. Yeah, I remember somebody talking about it.

Luggage? People getting off... at a bowling alley with luggage? It's not even bowling bags. It's luggage. Maybe that's the shock part.

They just drop them. Off and run. It's shock probation. Little did you know you were going to a bowling alley today. They're supposed to be dropping them off at the executive inn, but they dropped them off at the executive pool.

At the Twilight Zone. Little did they know they were about to enter a bowling alley. I really do feel like this is a big mistake. Right. I kind of want to just watch and see how this pans out.

I just like the lady in the pants suit. Snazzy. That's the only word for it. With the strappy sandals. The strappy sandals.

These people are all kissing each other and stuff. Weird. It's disgusting. I've had enough of them. That's it.

We're going to go wander around and take a break. We'll be back. We'll be back. Oh, the time is now, the time is here. Now's the time for a bite of cheer.

A tasty life where the price is right. Well, look in here, you'll dig this site. The moment's handy for a piece of candy. Just name your brand, they're all so grand. Hey, what do you think of a nice cool drink?

From the idiots that brung you dumb. and dumber you wouldn't happen to have a philips head screwdriver would you he's. The man with the rubber hand creepy he's the amish king with the. Golden heart whoa you could be a champion i'm just not interested you suck now. These two pinheads will teach each other about life in the fast. Play you're about to embark on a great.

Adventure Does anyone else want one? I'll take a couple jugs. What have you been doing all these years? Drinking. This is pretty good fun for only $ 2.

99 a minute. Get your hands off me! I will pay you $ 1 million. Bill Murray on July 26th. Watch the door.

Get your mind in the gutter. I will pay you one million dollars to sleep with your friend here. Kingpin. Are you still drinking? No, no, no, no.

I don't. That's that's behind me now. I just. Why are you buying it? . . All right, we're here with James Hoosier, star of The Big Lebowski.

Oh, star's a little out there, man. Name above the title, right? Minor role of The Big Lebowski, that's it. It's you and then that Bridges guy. No, no, no.

Forget everybody. There's no Buscemi or no Goodman in this movie or no Turturro. Well, they are. They're just way down at the bottom of the list. That's it.

Well, at a Lebowski fest, you know, right now until they show. Up, yeah, they are down there. But when they show up. They'll be above me. That's right.

You're the star. So I guess how did you get into acting? Like everybody could do themselves. You see a flyer, you write down a phone number, you pick it up, and you call them. It was such an awesome thing to see a phone number and call a phone number and.

Get a part in a movie such as this. Is it something. I mean, I guess, had you planned on doing movies at any point before that? No, I didn't. I was just at a bowling alley picking up some freebie stuff that I was getting for a toy drive, and I saw a flyer wanting a 40-ish Irish-looking person bowler, and I thought I might have fit the bill, so I called the number, and here I am.

Nice. So, I guess, what was the. Shoot itself like on that shoot? It was so much fun because I was taken as a non-actor and accepted by stars such as John Goodman and Jeff Bridges and John Turturro as one of them, you know, and it made me feel like I was really a part of everything that was happening. What were the Coen brothers like as far as, you know, working with them?

It was great. You know, they didn't give me a whole lot of direction. You know, they said, well, this is kind of what we want. If they laughed at a scene that was taken while I was on set, it was fine, it was good, it was ready to go. But if they didn't have that big smile on their face, it was like, we're.

Going to do it again. They were excellent, awesome guys towards me. Is it something you've tried to get a hold of them? Have you wanted to turn up in more of their stuff? I would love to.

But the last thing I told Ethan Cohen at the premiere of the movie, we had a screening at the Writers Guild. I went down and told him, I said, hey, you got my number? I'll clean your toilets. Just give me a call, you know, and let's do this again. I'm still waiting to scrub his toilets.

See, you do know how Hollywood works, though. See, that's how Joel, when I was telling him, we were discussing whether I was going to get the part or not. He asked me how I. Had heard about the movie, and I told him I answered a flyer. So after all the questions, and I guess when he made the decision that he was going to do this, he looks at me and he says, Jim, how did you hear about this part again?

I said, I answered a flyer. He looked me dead in the eye and says, it's not that hard to get in the movies, is it? I guess it isn't, because here I am. Oh, wow. Well, then I guess you get a lot of Big Lebowski.

We're actually talking about other Coen brothers today. We're talking about Raising Arizona. Are you a big Raising Arizona fan? Actually, I've probably seen portions of the movie I haven't seen at all. Yeah.

I wasn't a Coen fan until I became a part of their life, and here I am. Of their other ones, outside of your, you know, your starring performance. But outside of. That, what is your other favorite? I love, I love Old Brother Roth.

Fargo was excellent. I love that movie. You know, and as far as the others, they can, you know, come and go. It was good. I went to the theater and saw them because they were the Coens.

But those were my favorites. Yeah. Okay, is there anything else you've got planned? Anything you want to tell people you've got. In the works?

I have absolutely nothing other than coming to Lebowski Fest. If there's anybody out there, I don't know whether you go to producers, directors, movie people, but hey, look me up. You can find me and I would love to do something else if possible. Nice. We just found you on Facebook.

Do you want to tell people to go find you on Facebook? Find me on Facebook, you know, with Fringy if you have anything to do with the movie, you know, and uh would be glad to talk to you and accept you on. Very cool very cool all right well thanks for talking to us thank you very. Much storm clouds are raging all around my door i think to myself i might not take it anymore Take a woman like your kind to find a man in me. Tweaked Audio, your source for high-performance, noise-reducing earbuds.

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Sounds better. This is William Forsythe. This is Sly Stallone and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. That's what we need. We need you doing other people.

That's it, right? That's it, right? You know. Sean Conrad. This is William Forsythe and you're listening to Movie Meltdown.

It's time for Sofa Theater. My name is H.I. McDonough. Call me hi. The first time I met Ed was in the county lockup in Tempe, Arizona.

Don't forget his profile, Ed. Turn to the right. A day I'll never forget. Turn to the right. What kind of name is Ed for a pretty thing like you?

Short for Edwina. Turn to the right. What a flower you are. Just a little desert flower. Let me know how those come out.

Turn to the right. I'm walking in here on my knees, Ed. A free man proposing. That occurred. And so it was.

Don't forget the bouquet, Ed. I do. You bet I do. Ed's pa staked us to a starter home in suburban Tempe. And I got a job drilling holes in sheet metal.

These were the happy days. The salad days, as they say. And Ed felt that having a critter was the next logical step. It was all she thought about. Her point was that there was too much love and beauty for just the two of us.

And every day we kept a child out of the world was a day he might later regret having missed. Florence had been taking fertility pills as she and Nathan had hit the jackpot. Now y'all without sin can cast the first stone. But we thought it was unfair that some should have so many while others. Should have so few.

With the benefit of hindsight, maybe it wasn't such a hot idea. But at the time, Israel's plans seem like the solution to all our problems and the answer to all our prayers. Alright, so we thought we were at Lebowski Fest. We put together some sort of special tie-in, but You know, talking about the Big Lebowski while sitting at Lebowski Fest, just hitting the nail a little too squarely on the head. I don't know.

Something was a little off there for me. That's not usually how we operate. To me, knowing the way we are on this show, to go to Lebowski Fest and talk about Raising Arizona, now that seemed kind of right. So that's why we have chosen this. All right, we are back out in the car.

We've realized lately how much, probably a good 98%. Of our episodes are recorded in vehicles or parking lots or both. So, yeah, it just seems to be our MO at this point. But, what do you think? It's usually slightly less noisy than being wherever it is we're recording, so... we are back for this week's sofa theater feature this week's sofa theater feature is raising arizona the year is 1987 director for once we get to joel and ethan cohen the plot according to imdb When a childless couple of an ex-con and an ex-cop decide to help themselves to one of another family's quintuplets, their lives get more complicated than they anticipated.

I like reading it like I'm working for the company. You gotta add that little cheese, but when their lives get more, you know, you gotta add a little extra, because they're usually worded really badly anyway, so. Yeah. So, before we get into ours, we do have a one from the vaults moment. One from the vaults.

From the star of this movie, Mr. William Forsythe. Nice. It's, yeah, it's an amazing performance. I'm kind of glad that we have his memory of what went on during Raising Arizona.

Scott, I'm a really big fan of Raising Arizona, and I think you did such a good job on that. Yeah. Evel is just an amazing character. Well, it's kind of funny. When I did that part, even though, I mean, basically I was raised in Brooklyn, New York, and all this, but when I played that part, I had a period after that for about a year where suddenly nobody wanted to see me for parts.

And finally I figured it out, and I went, oh, they think I'm him. And so I remember busting in a casting director's door and basically trying to get them to change their opinion on those things. But I guess it was so effective. I've got to tell you, it was so much fun to do. I really loved working with the Coen brothers.

I don't know if they love working with me. I haven't done a movie since with them. But I really love working with them. And I think Raising Arizona is one of their absolute most brilliant pieces of all the films they've made. And I'm very proud that I did it.

And it was hard to keep a straight face while making that movie. We had such a good time. Well, I had fun anyway. Ethan, Joel. What was it like with you and John Goodman?

Because you have such good chemistry on screen together. It was great. You know, the funny part was they didn't want to see me because their original concept of the Snopes brothers was kind of like Laurel and Hardy. Yeah. And they had the idea that he should be like a really skinny guy, this, this.

And then John was playing that. So they assumed I wanted his part. Yeah. Well, I went in and suddenly changed their concept of it because I wanted to do the part I played. Yeah.

And when they looked at it, they went, oh, it's perfect. I mean, big brother, little brother, you know. So he was great to work with. John, you know, he's a gentleman, you know, great talent. And we had a tremendous amount of fun doing it.

You know, those crazy scenes. Of us in the car, the whole stylized version of it, the commitment to, you know, creating these two, you know, absolute, you know, D.A. wearing lunatics, you know, was, you know, one of the great experiences of my life, truly. They had such heart to it, though. It's like they were trying. To be hard asses, but at the same time, they were so, yeah.

He smiled at me. They were so sweet about it. It was a nice mixture. Well, that's what made it so endearing. Those characters were just so rich.

Yeah. So thank you to William for sharing his thoughts. Now that we've got William's take on it, guys, where would you like to begin on Raising Arizona? I'd like to begin on his job drilling holes in metal because it reminds me of Drugstore Cowboy. And that's just like an odd little thing I noticed.

Oh, he's got that same job that Matt Dillon had in Drugstore Cowboy. Probably after he got fired, they hired Matt Dillon. Yeah, Matt Dillon. So this is like what people do after they're trying to get out of a life of crime. You go drill.

And that came out just like three years later, I guess. Yeah, it was pretty close. Yeah. It doesn't lead anywhere. It doesn't get us into it.

And that's the episode. Yeah. Thank you. Good night. So, okay, if we want to lead into it, I mean, I guess the best, and this is probably one of the most perfect versions of this, is this movie has an intro.

And an intro that comes before the credits And it's so awesome and so long you forget there were credits. Oh, yeah. You forget that the movie is just starting. You're like 15 minutes in and all of a sudden that song kicks in and the credits come up and you're just like, oh, shit, we're just going. Okay.

I forgot what I was watching. So possibly the best intro to a movie ever. I mean, just the extent that they go into everything, the complete, because it's not like it's one of those movies that jumps around and it's a lot of stuff. It's like you get all that told in an entirely different style in the intro, and then it kicks into like damn near real time. Then it's like two, three days, and everything happens, you know, progresses in that same manner and doesn't ever really come back until, you know, sort of dream sequence stuff.

You never really get that style again. It's like an entirely... It's. Almost like its own little short film, like we have on many of these movies now, that the pre-credit sequence is kind of its own little short film and done amazingly well. Yeah, they like having that narrator.

They did that in Blood Simple, in No Country for Old Men. And we were trying to remember when we saw it, just like, did they have a narration in Miller's Crossing? It's like, no. But it kind of feels like they did in a way because a lot of that old vintage noir, the characters are always narrating their things to each other. They're like, no, this is how it's going to be.

This is how it was. It's a narration kind of dialogue. At least each act begins with the narrator in those old styles introducing what's happened or what's going to happen, that transition. They like that so much. Do you think that's what it's like with them?

Do you think, like, Ethan's lurking around behind Till the whole time going, Well, he's decided to put on the brown slacks today. God damn it, leave me alone! Now he's making a sandwich. I don't know, but people say, like, whenever they ask them a question on the set, both of them have the same answer. Like they've worked it out.

Or they share a brain. They share a brain, yeah. That's the latter. And I think.... Part of that, or they claim somewhere, their budgets were never very big, and they had to compensate by just being really, really meticulous about everything.

So I guess they got it worked out so that chaos didn't spiral out of control the way it so often does in their films. The miscommunications, and then they wind up and nobody knows what happened except the camera. That's true. I mean, that is why some of their stuff probably comes out so well, especially this early in their career, because of probably meticulous planning. Right.

Yeah, it is something you can see that with them. They're probably so ridiculously organized about everything involved that, yeah, they probably do have everything worked out, even to answering questions. About it after the fact. Yeah. So do we want to go with specifics or jump around, or how would you guys like to do this one?

I haven't... I've always wanted to talk about this movie on a podcast. It's sort of daunting. But now I don't know that... It's hard for me to talk about it.

I've been so in love with this movie since I was young. Yeah. I remember my first experience with it. I was on vacation. My cousin and I were the kids that had to...

You know, it's cramming way too many people into a condo. And we. We had to sleep out in the living room on the pull-out couch. And I don't know if it was Showtime or HBO that we got for free, and it was on. And that was my first experience.

Probably still too young to watch it. And we watched it, I think, three times on that vacation. And it almost instantly became my favorite movie from that point. So it's hard for me to... Now I was thinking, well, where do you even start?

That was what I was... Because, yeah, I went back and re-watched it yesterday. And as I'm sitting there, it's like, usually with some of these, I'll be a dork and I will, like, start writing stuff down just because, again, meticulously planning to make any of this work. Usually I'm like, I'll totally forget that. I better write it down.

Or we need to, you know, be sure and talk about that. I better write it down. So in this one, I was going to write down, like, the good stuff. I couldn't. I was overwhelmed.

Like, two minutes in, I was just like, I would have already filled a page. I'm just like, there's just. so much in this and it's all so awesome that yeah it's really kind of hard so i think we can set it up with a basic structure but odds are we're gonna be like oh and then that one part so we'll probably just get keyed up and go off on tangents like we do anyway so uh if nothing else do we want to address the cast. I could talk for quite a while about Holly Hunter. That has nothing to do with this movie. Right.

Not necessarily, no. I mean, it does, and yet, um, it could, it could take on a whole different, um, I just, uh, really like her, and I thought she was awesome in the movie. Yeah, but, no, she wouldn't have to be, like, uh, a really good actress for me to, like, um, I just think she's so interesting. She's really fascinating. And I've always followed her.

She's in a number of some of my favorite movies. She's just very unconventional. She's not who you would cast in a lot of. Movies. And then when she gets there, she does stuff that you wouldn't expect.

Yeah. There's just something so striking about her as. An actress. But it seems like as a person. You get that sense, although it could.

Be an illusion probably. But then, you know, Nicolas Cage was so good in this movie. You know, he's becoming a joke now, but he was so good. I want to address that, because for me that's the most notable thing about the film, is how pitch perfect he is. I mean, it's just one of the most amazing performances.

And so for me, anything he does in life, like the man can do anything. He can marry as. Many 19-year-old sushi waitresses. He can direct as many movies as crappy as sunny. He can do anything and get away with it, because I will always go, But you know what?

He did Raising Arizona. Yeah. And that was perfect. It's true. He had that one glorious moment.

I gave him a lot of credit for a long time and still, like, that's the thing. I hadn't watched this in a while. And I was just like, you know, even last week, going on and on about his most recent movie. That's kind of a joke. And I've always.

Said, you know, he's got moments where he redeems himself and he comes back and delivers really good performances. But going back and re-watching this this week, I was just like, God, he. Is so good in this. Yeah. I don't know that anybody else could have done what he does.

And it comes off so natural. And maybe that's because he is just a little bit not right in the head. But he found a way to work it in this one. Maybe, again, maybe it's because it's so early on and he hasn't gotten... It hasn't beaten him down to the point that it's overdone or he's become a version of himself, which is what happens when you become a big star.

But. Yeah, maybe because we caught him at. Just the right point in his career that he could turn in this perfect performance. Well, it was like he was a child star. It was this really great performance, and then he grows up, and then it's like, oh no, stop trying.

You were so much better when you were just not trying. Do you want to give credit to the directors, too? There's definitely, I mean, they knew what they were doing with this movie. Everything about it is crafted. So you can't completely negate that they had something to do with kind of reeling him in a little bit and then directing him the right way.

But at the same time, I think it did just hit at the right moment for him to be that awesome. I didn't mean that in the way, because his performance is, like you said, you couldn't have put someone else in that role. He is that movie to me. I mean, I'm sure we're going to bring it up, but John Goodman and William Forsythe, everybody in the movie is almost perfect for their characters and makes the movie, but it would not be Raising Arizona without Nicolas Cage. Yeah, I mean, you almost could put somebody else in Holly Hunter's pie.

It wouldn't have been as good, but it's not as identifiable. See, I don't like it. But I'm just saying, I could see... I could see them working somebody else in and it being bad. I can't even see the project continuing without Nicolas Cage doing that.

He really does set the tone for the overall movie. Same thing. As much as I think John Goodman is amazing in this, I could see them cramming two other brothers in there and it still continuing on. But I don't know that you could have done it. I don't know.

I can't see it even progressing without him there to drive it with whatever craziness and bad hair. Amazing hair. And there's some sort of tone of, like, sort of outlaw danger, but it's so gentle at the same time. I can't think of anything else that ever had that tone before. It's kind of cartoon.

It reminds me of how, like, when people are guests on The Simpsons, you hear their voice. Sometimes it doesn't sound a lot like them because they soften their voice, and they don't use, like, sort of harsher, ruder tones. they make it a kind of cartoon version of themselves. And there's something about that going on in the movie, and it's so interesting how they introduce, like, the Leonard Smalls guy through his consciousness. Yeah. Like, he dreams the guy, and then the guy's real.

And there's just something really, I think that's maybe where, like, whatever the story really adds up to it, It has something to do with that odd relationship that is, you know, it's similar to things you've seen in movies since then. You know, like, oh, the father thing in, oh, what's that movie, the Boondock Saints. It's the forgotten father, and the last minute he sees the same tattoo, and there's a Darth Vader or something. Something, he's the look. What, the Lone Biker of the Apocalypse?

The Lone Biker of the Apocalypse, yeah. You know, it's funny that you brought up a cartoon, because that's one thing that I've always seen it as. He's almost high, he's almost a Wile E. Coyote kind of character. Yeah, and there's a Warner Brothers quality to it.

And it's set in the Southwest. The fights that they get into, the absurd scenarios that they get into physically... the chase sequence is straight out of a Looney Tunes, you know, and that's why, it's probably why the movie appealed to me at such a young age, because it, you know, I'm done watching Looney Tunes in the morning, and that night, you know, Raising Arizona's on, and it's a cartoon, it's, and I don't really like slapstick, but there's so much slapstick in that movie. Yeah there's so much casual gunfire and then and it's so loud and then the worst thing that happens and it's a detail I love is when he scrapes his knuckles on the textured ceiling. For some reason that's just awesome and somehow everybody just kind of goes oh yeah I know like you've watched horrible things happen all the entire movie but that somehow pushes it over the edge.

Well I think people can really relate to that scene most people have had like a Like a popcorn-sealing basement that's. A little too low. Yeah, you're moving something, and all of a sudden, oh, mother! Yeah, yeah. Probably a little too close to home for most.

People. Need a beer, Glenn? Did the Pope wear a funny hat? Yeah, Glenn, I guess it is kind of funny. Say, you didn't mind me.

How'd you get that kid so darn fast? Me and Dot went into a dive on account of something went wrong with my semen, and they said we had to wait five years for a healthy white baby. I said, healthy white baby, five years? Okay, what else you got? Said they got two Koreans and a Negro.

Born with his heart on the outside. It's a crazy world. Someone ought to sell tickets. I'm sure I'd buy one. More specifics on the cast?

Sam McMurray that plays his boss. I take to him. You hate the guy, but he does that part so well. And, you know, this person that... You know he loathes himself.

And he hates his life. And he. I don't know. And, my God. His wife.

Francis. Oh, my Lord. How good is she? That's one of those, I didn't know she was in that movie for years. Right.

Like, later, I went back and went, oh, my God, that is her. How can that be her? Yeah. Oh, wow. She disappears into that.

She is so good. Yeah, yeah. Lynn was watching for her. She's like, who is she in this? Is she in this?

No, she's not. Married to the furniture guy. Oh, there she is. Yep. Yeah, but he just...

I don't know. Like I said, there's so much of that movie that... The characters are... The characters are perfect and the people that play them are perfect. And that's probably.

I mean, just going back to the characters, that is kind of what they do so well with a lot of their movies, but especially with... They found a way in the comedy portion of their career to, like, find that perfect balance. Like, you look at... They play up, you know, because. They play up the comedy end of it, so you do get that Looney Tunes aspect, but at the same time...

Within these same characters, they're all so real. Yeah, they take some of the things so seriously. So when you're dealing with his boss, you're like, I kind of know that guy. You realize he's one shade away from somebody you worked with. Or the guy at the factory.

I'm like, yeah, he's pretty close. They find the fine line of the cartoon, and yet, no, I worked with that guy before. They really do have a knack for it. the ridiculous characters, but inserting just enough realism that you're kind of attached to them. And you're just like, no, this could really happen, I think. I'm pretty sure.

Maybe not that one part, but everything else could happen. Or like the scene where she doesn't want the brothers to stay, and he's like, no, they're just going to stay. And they kind of work it out. They take that. That is so well-observed.

You know, she's totally against it, but you can see her like, well, okay. Yeah, there are a lot of moments like that that they really take more seriously than you would expect in a comedy. And also, he's just dealing with his sense of himself as an outlaw and having to let that go and deal with it. And it's tied into the lone biker of the apocalypse somehow. But it's not clear how he's overcoming that.

When they're projecting onto the baby, and he's like, you can tell he's a rebel. No, no, he's a good boy. He's a little outlaw. You can see his eyes. Yeah, that's so nice.

Well, it's funny how deep-rooted that is in him because he's not a very good outlaw. And he's not even much of an outlaw. He holds up convenience stores and the gun's not loaded. You're the least hardcore outlaw ever. And he would get caught immediately.

Yeah, and he's gotten caught how many times? So it's funny that he still keeps that as such an important part. Of his persona, that he's an outlaw. There's a lot of truth in that, though. Yeah, once again, it's like.

There's so many guys that kind of live their life like that. And then if you stop and look at them, you're a joke, buddy. Get over it. Yeah, locking yourself out of your car. Guys trying to be, like, I don't know, sort of outlaws, but at the same time basically being such nice people that they're kind of in conflict.

Yeah. Well, to go with that, William Forsythe is amazing. Like, the way that he pulls off this character that... I mean, is there ever a moment you kind of dislike him? Like, John Goodman is, you know, he's kind of hardcore, he's the one that's calling the shots, you can get a little like, oh, I can see, he's shady, but like. evil is just so sweet about.

Everything yeah he's so like he's so respectful mrs mcdonough he's so like everything. About him is so like we didn't mean to influence anybody. Yeah he's just so played down the way that he does everything and is so respectful towards everybody else and yet at the same time hangs out with nothing but criminals you know is planning this big heist i mean he's still kind of an evil character if you want to look at it in. That sense but He's so lovable in this. I'm sorry.

It's his career. It's the job choice, like he talks about at the very beginning. This is the path he's chosen. In jail, it's like, well, sometimes you focus more on your career. Either way, we're set for life.

And then when he starts getting involved with the baby. He smiled at me. And then when he decides that they're a family, like, it's just gorgeous. He's just so wide-eyed and sweet. He is.

He's so good. Buying him balloons so they can, does it blow up into funny shapes? I love that one. Just spherical. Just spherical.

Round. Round is funny. Just a circular. Yeah. Oh, yeah, circular.

Yeah. The spherical's the spherical object arrested on the highway. I like how he flattens it to circular. It's no longer spherical, it's just. Well, even that, it's like, you look at the, especially the brothers, and you're like, these are dumb guys.

And then, like, they'll deliver a line that is so not. And that may be why, like, the writing on it and their characters, the way that they play them are so genius, because all of a sudden, Evel's like an idiot, he's an idiot, and then, like, she runs out of the room, and, you know, and... what's he need a dip tent and i'm like that's a great one was genius because nobody stupid could have written that line it would have been like what she all worked up about you know it would have been something stupid yeah but no this is not only smart but informed no. I think the point of that line was that any idiot knows you get the dip. Tent yeah like no everybody knows that but they're trying to be parents and they're behind the rest of the world There's a lot of truth in that, too.

That's true, too. When you're a new. Parent, you're like, I can't believe the world is letting me be responsible for a baby. Yeah. It seems like even Leonard Smalls would know about that.

Right. You know, driving along, pick a baby up on the road, probably he was dipped at. When you look at it, he's supposed to be the evil one of the movie. And every single person, even the police officer, every single person is a miserable human being. All of them are criminals or liars.

None of them have a real name or go by their real name. And Leonard Smalls is kind of, he tells you exactly what he's going to do. He doesn't lie to you. He doesn't cheat. And I don't know that I've analyzed it that much before, but you know, Yes, he's rough, but he's not impolite about being rough.

He is very polite about the way that he goes about it. He comes into the situation, introduces himself, tells him what he's going to do, like you said. It's a weird way to play your hand. He's the only straight shooter of the bunch. I mean, all of them are straight shooters, but everybody's, you know, they're all criminals.

Every single one of them. Well, it's because they weren't breastfed. Right. But, yeah, you do get into that by the end, that even Holly Hunter, who is, you know, the one that's supposed to uphold the law, like, she has that whole crisis, and she's, like, kind of breaking down by the end because she not only stole this baby and did something that was morally wrong, but she sort of turned her back on everything she stood for. She got roped into that because she was so busy, you know, I've got to have a kid, I've got to have a family, that, yeah, she even, like.

Betraying her own basic sense of. Right and wrong. Yeah, they probably saved like 20 minutes of introducing her character and explaining stuff just when she starts crying and says, I just love him so much. It's like, you don't need anything. After that, that covers so much exposition and character development and you're all of a sudden, okay, well that's done.

Now we know where we are. And you also understand why High is going back. In to get the baby as she rolls up. You give me a baby. You realize you're not going home without a baby.

You best get in there and pick one. Some of her expressions in that are so deadly true and you never see them again. Or do any of it in any other movie. It's all just for that character. And that's, yeah, that's what's so amazing about, like, all of these, really.

It's like they're all self-contained to this world, and you really don't, like, even somebody as, like, John Goodwin, who's turned up in so many other things, and is kind of well-known, like, he delivers something that's very different here, and it's something you don't, really see so it's funny how much everybody specifically holly hunter i guess because she did so much serious stuff after that so to see her doing you know things have changed and she's doing this crazy voice and she's making these faces and i'm just like why doesn't she do more of this she's so good at it and like she just went you know oscar road you know after this but it's you know I don't know. Everybody's so good at the.

Comedy and delivers that very isolated little performance that just works in this world. I thought the John Goodman thing was really interesting for me because I watched, I revisited Big Lebowski this week as well. And I think, and I don't know if at some point we're going to address how similar the two films are, nearly. Identical in many ways. We can.

But yeah, I mean, you know, John Goodman's sort of the same. He's one of the two male sidekicks and he's a bully. But the bullies are so completely different. And the backstories are so different. I mean, it's such different characters played by the same actor with their own nuances that watching those two performances side to side was really sort of profound for me.

And that's impressive. I mean, because you're the same actor. You're also working with the same directors. It could have been pretty easy to fall back into that same thing. And he delivers such different performances.

And it was the greatest hair of any of his roles ever. I think everybody can feel that about you. One scene, you see his haircut falling for him. It's like, wow. Let's just pause that for a minute.

Get your damn feet off my coffee table. Ron, you are upsetting the victim. Damn it. Are you boys going to chase down your leads? Are you going to sit around.

Drinking coffee in one house in the state where I know my boy ain't at? Well, sir, we don't have any leads as yet, aside from the coat. Give me that. That's a $ 500 camel's hair coat. Sir, you might want to wash your hands at this point.

God damn it. No leads. Everyone leaves micros and whatnot. Hell, that's your forte, ain't it? Cracking down them micros left by criminals and commies and shit.

That's your whole goddamn. Raison d'etre, ain't it? No leads. I want Nathan Jr. Back for whichever the hell one of them they took.

He's out there somewhere. Something leads to him. And anyone can. Find him knows the difference between a lead and a hole in the ground. We hit all the cast.

No, Nathan, Arizona. No there's there you go that's true. He uh there isn't a line out of his mouth that isn't hilarious that's true and and you know that's the writing yes but he delivers it so well yeah and again like you say people that you know you know those people yeah and they're being a complete asshole but uh to you but at the same time you want to laugh because they're so good at uh picking the right choice of words, and, you know. Isn't that your whole Raising Dad truck? Right.

Well, no, the one that, you know, the, you know, his damn jammies, he's got, I don't know, they got Yodas. And shit on them. They got Yodas and shit on them. Oh, no. God.

I mean, you know, that's probably the one. That scene when they're going through his house is probably... It's just gold. Sir, you might want to wash your hands. Sir, you end up doing this the whole time.

Right, just quoting the movie. Just shooting that scene, there's a lot of people in the room too. And I'm sure that's not easy to handle. Because I bet the outtakes from that scene were probably a large quantity. Because I couldn't have kept a straight face. recording that, I'm sure.

What I think is so impressive with him is how well he does the commercial. Yeah. And it's not just that commercial is hilarious, but at the same time. There's part of that guy that never goes away. And that's, again, the element of realism.

It's like, you know those guys that... they are always business. They are always on. Their job never goes away. And he's one of those in the middle of the press conference of his kidnapped baby. Business still as usual down in Arizona.

I mean, he's still selling in the middle of a crisis. And you're like, that, that's a, that's a businessman. That is a guy who is like that his entire life is his job. And he is, you know, that, that is who he is. And he can never turn that off.

And that's, Again, that's just really well observed in the writing of the character. That's crazy. That's their second movie. Yeah, that they were this... well put together and a. Complete departure in genre yeah.

And it might as well be their first quality yeah. And when they got away from then i started looking it's like they left comedy for like six eight years or more before they even really got back like they did you know drama right out of the gate and then they switched gears to this and then they go like four or five movies and don't really touch on it again and it's just like weird how much they because now they kind of hit back and forth now they've hit a lot more comedies they're usually not that successful lately but it's funny that they they had that in them that they could do raising arizona in blood simple back to back and. Deliver a couple of careers yeah and it's like oh we'll do this career for a while and do that one when we feel like it what's weird though is how good that movie is how completely realized the style and And the mixed reviews it got when it came out, it makes you wonder, what were people looking for that they did not find in that movie?

Because people said it was like all style and no substance. So what is the substance that they were looking for that wasn't there? And I don't know if it's just because it was so original that people felt like it wasn't hitting a spot that they had already been prepared for. to see a movie that would deliver what they, and they just weren't ready for something different that, you know, because it was so fully realized. It's just baffling how people were so split in opinion on it. I think that's what it is, and I think we, in particular, American audience, have gotten to that, where you look, especially in comedies, where you see, I mean, you see the trailer, and same thing we were seeing with Horrible Bosses before.

It's like, I saw that trailer, and I was like, Yeah, I kind of know where they're going with this. I kind of know where most of the jokes are going to hit. I kind of see what they're doing, and they're hitting a very specific thing that's kind of popular right now, and they're hitting it pretty good. And you look at something like Raising Arizona, and it's nothing. There is nothing like it.

There is nothing that it plays on, really. I mean, it's just like everything is done in such a different way that I think that's what it is. It has to catch audiences off guard at that point. And there's a reason it took... eight, ten years before it really found that following. And even now it's sort of, like, forgotten in the, you know, in the Coen Brothers list.

People always go to their other bigger, more recent movies. But it's, like, it's still, it took a long time for people to really fully realize how, like, amazing it is. I don't know. Yeah, I think it's that phenomenon, like, when you expect somebody to say something and they say something else, it's hard to hear it. Mm-hmm.

Like at first you're trying to hear what you're expecting to hear. Or like when you see student journalism, if you're like present at an interview and then they write it up, it's like, that isn't even what happened. And it's because they come sort of with a story already in mind that they're going to try to do, and they don't really hear what people tell them when they get there. That's my explanation for it, because I just think it's baffling that that people who watch movies and love movies and write about movies can be so wrong about something that's just so clearly developed and excellent. You look at when this hit, too.

This was also the VHS boom. I kind of remember because I also think this is when they started doing really bad box art. And don't get me wrong, that one's funny, but it doesn't really fit the movie. It doesn't. We said that.

Yeah, it doesn't match what you end up in the middle of. Yeah, Lynn said that last night. She said, I don't think the art looks like the movie. And it's like, no, it looks like marketing. Yeah, so you figure at this point, and I remember this, I remember seeing these boxes, these type of movies at that point at the grocery store.

And you're dealing with normal middle America going through. Going, look, that looks funny. That baby's wearing sunglasses. It looks like the movie about the two secret agents who have babies. Baby movies?

Yeah. That's what it looks like. Another terrible one. Yeah. So once again, it's like that's what they wanted.

They wanted something stupid and mainstream like that. And so they grab it off the shelf at the grocery store and they go home and they're not prepared for that. And I think it does. Either it's just not their type of humor or... they're caught off guard. And it will be, you know, years later they'll come back and go, you know, that actually was really funny, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, they watch it again. And it's funny, too, because in the movie, I mean, clearly the intent is they're not trying to make a little indie movie in a niche somewhere. They're going for the whole, you know, they're making a picture for everybody. Yeah.

It's ambitious in that way. They're not trying to make a, not quirky in the sense of it's just for certain people. they're they're making it's a big. Movie and it could have fallen into that that was almost before that big boom of little weird indie movies so it's like if they made it years later it could have been really easy to to try well again different directors i don't know that they would have bothered to do that but a different director trying to do something like this sort of playing with the the funny landscape of what you know who and what the old white trash persona. And the The women in their hair curlers. I mean, you could see working that visual style into another not as good movie.

I could see somebody else trying to do something like that and just delivering something totally different and not near as good. There was one scene that didn't feel like a Coen Brothers scene to me, and I was sort of wondering at the time if it was targeted toward the people that wanted to see the baby in sunglasses. Like, that's the movie they wanted to see. They wanted to see babies in sunglasses. Like, that whole really extended scene where he's, like, trying to pick out the baby, and he's trying them all out, and then all of a sudden the babies are everywhere, and it's, like, Trouble with Tribbles, and, like, it's just, like, madness, babies all over babies.

And it went on forever, I felt like. Yeah, I read that a lot of babies got fired. A lot of babies perished in the making. No, they got fired because they all started walking, taking their first steps. Interesting.

And they had to keep, they needed babies that would crawl. And so one of the stage mothers actually put her baby's shoes on backwards so he couldn't get up and walk. Because they were trying to keep, yeah, babies were getting fired. She went ahead and broke both his feet. Yeah.

Yeah, they got a small price to pay for a starring role. Yeah, they got. Kathy Bates in there. Hobble the baby. You just need a little piece of wood.

Oh, wow. I think there's still, and that's something that they do, and maybe that's what it was, there's still that... you were saying mass appeal kind of stuff and mixed with with your thing it's like i think they still have that in them that is weird as they are and as much as they have that highbrow end of them they still realize there's just basic stuff that's still kind of funny yeah like a baby crawling they're following that kid crawling i'm like that's just kind of funny look at the way he's crawling. And also this is the look who's talking era, three men and a baby era. Babies were hilarious. That's what people wanted.

They're like, babies are funny. That's why I think when you get those little insert shots of Nathan pulling his hood down as they're turning a corner, that's what that was. It was that point of, okay, people love babies, stick another shot in there. And granted, the way they. Edited it is kind of funny, but it's still a little more mainstream than most of what they pull off.

Well, you do have to have it be cute and be funny. Because if it wasn't cute and funny, it would be such a dark movie. I mean, this is people... And that's maybe why that extended scene is so cute with the babies. It's distracting you from the fact that this is such a...

I mean, that's the biggest nightmare of anyone who's ever had kids is that someone's going to sneak in and take your child. And so. That's a lot to deal with. So if we, you know, make it funny and make it cute, you're not going to hate these people. Because they're still the protagonists in the movie.

You don't want to completely hate the characters that you're going to spend an hour and a half with. Yeah. So, yeah, it almost needs it. You know, if you were to take out all of that, I might even turn it off. It might cross that line.

Yeah, yeah. There still is that basic, and that's what I always gave him credit for, is still being able to tap into that. There's just something innately funny about a dog running on linoleum. That dog turning the corner in the grocery store is still one of the funniest moments. and there's nothing to it there was no performance they were just dog run and it's it's there's still something that's so funny about that and it's one of those knowing what to capture knowing those basic things in life that okay this guy's gonna get hit in the face with a board you know what that's funny you know it shouldn't be it's horrible and yet damn it you're gonna laugh at it every time i think there's a little element of that in them that they still have that like goofy little kid that probably taps into the cartoon aspect that like still understands that like basic level of goofy, funny thing.

Yeah, they're not kidding themselves that they have this independent sensibility about what's funny. No, they still want what's really funny. Yeah. And that anyone with any sense of funny will have to respond to. Dog on the no lean.

You have to let them. Well, the reason I think their comedies, most of their comedies work so well is because they know every... aspect of humor like not just slapstick and not just like the cheap shots but they know like the type of comedy that's funny because you see it and you relate to it you've experienced it at some point and also you know like you said the dog running on linoleum like they it's like i think most movies focus on one specific type of humor whereas this one was like all forms of humor combined and that's why it works so. Well yeah and it is one of those that it does have to hit you just right. I mean, there are those basic things that everybody's going to think is funny, but there's those other things that are like, you may just not get it.

It may just not be what you're into, but if you're one of those people that does, and it clicks with you, you're going to be floored. I think we all kind of fell into that. I mean, when we were talking about, like, you can't pick out things that aren't, you know, are good scenes, because they're. All, like. Yeah, they never lose the momentum of the movie just to show the.

Yeah, it's not a gimmick, really. They're set pieces, more or less. But the flow of it still works that everything is consistently that way. It really is like a complete universe, kind of. Because you never...

The kid behind the counter at the convenience store... It definitely lives. In the same world as the woman with the curlers in her hair at the grocery. It all feels just like one big piece. It really doesn't feel like they're just doing this little funny bit that we wrote that we have to work into a movie.

It doesn't feel slapped in there like they do a lot of comedies now. You know, it's funny. It's just such a good movie. When you talk about it, I sort of forget that we're supposed to keep talking because... I start playing parts of it.

I'm doing the same. I'm running scenes in my mind and I'm like, no, I can't do that because I'd just be talking about it. Well, I've heard some people when they're doing the DVD commentaries for some things that they just really enjoy, they forget to talk. Yeah, they just sit there and watch it after a while. I've seen a few of those.

They just sit. There like R. Kelly and Notherhead. This is where the midget He shits in his pants. Wow.

Yeah, that was one of the most impressive commentaries I ever witnessed. It was amazing. Thanks to you for making me listen. Oh, man. It was classic.

Yeah, I actually had a story that I was going to tell about Nicolas Cage and how loathsome he is, but now that all I can think about. Is hi, like, I'm just so in love with him right now. I can't even tell the story. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing.

Just think about the wicker man, and then you can tell the story. All right, let me tell you about that motherfucker. I never saw that one. Don't. No.

I saw the original. I like the original. Actually, I mean, it's epic bad. It's one of those you kind of have to see to be like, wow. I mean.

It's so bad. It's like, no, I'm burning. You know, it's that bad. It's like, you don't express agony. You tell us that you're in agony.

I mean. It's that bad. I feel like The Wicker Man is such a weird movie. I mean, it's one of the strangest movies ever. It's very, like, nonsensical and almost surreal in a lot of ways.

You know, the scene, I'm pretty sure it's in The Wicker Man. That's what I associate it best with. You know, where they're all, like, beating the drums and, like, having a parade, basically, to catch a human being on fire. I mean, it's just such an odd movie. Why would they ever remake that? it's not a horror movie it's a weird it's just.

A weird movie and there's almost a way because that's the thing you see the pitch when they started setting that up there's almost a way they could have done it it wouldn't have been as good but I could see them making it more into like a thriller making him like trying to figure out the mystery kind of thing that sort of gets overshadowed by just the weirdness in the original but yeah they totally lose that too it's like they've just missed the boat on every aspect I just. Don't I can understand making tons of weird old horror movies but that is not one of them I mean I think sometimes. Sometimes the horror of a movie is that people got together and agreed to do it and it just scares you that people can be so like this crowd mentality can take hold and people can just undertake such a really really terrible idea or boardroom.

Mentality I mean it almost has and I'm sorry that we're going on about this movie so much but it almost has like a weird foreign movie feel, you know? Well, for us it was. Yeah. But, I mean, you know what I mean? Like, a weird old, like, a movie that was never supposed to be put on DVD, but someone, like, found it, and they're like, here's a compilation of weird clips of old weird foreign movies.

Oh, like Trash Hoppers. Yeah. Your favorite movie. Kind of like that DVD of, like, those movie previews, whatever that's called. But it's almost like that.

I don't know. I'll stop without it. And if I don't pay? I'll get the boy regardless. Because if you don't pay, the market will.

You want to know what I think? I think you're an evil man. I think this is nothing but a goddamn screw job. I think it's a shakedown. I think you're the one that took Nathan Jr., And my fine friend, I think you're the one who's going to get his butt kicked.

I think I'm on the phone with the cops right now. I did want to get into, on Raising Arizona, the more sort of, I mean, we touched on it earlier, the sort of more semi-mystical end of it. Yeah. Because it took me a long time to figure out what I thought of the Leonard Smalls part of the storyline. Yeah.

I don't know. I guess at least for a minute, let's go into that. He says that in the narration that he is the pain and suffering that Mrs. Arizona... It's born out of that.

So obviously he's not just. But is it some otherworldly end? Or does it just tie... Because that was my thing. I actually had it very... otherworldly you know early on I remember watching it and just sort of didn't really map that out and just kind of went with it because it's you know they're fun scenes and you go with it but in over the last few times that I've watched it I've been like there's a way that you can kind of mesh those two together where he's having his visions and he's he's he's feeling his things about his his criminal past and his dark side in the same moment that this you know weird uh bounty hunter uh comes along that's also sort of just in the business of finding people that need to be found and probably watching the media trying to pick up on where the next place to make money off of people is and who he can exploit i mean there's there's a real world aspect that you can tie into it and it's only recently that i've even kind of put all that together that it could sort of be.

Both yeah it's weird that it's both yeah it's almost like new physics or something It's kind of like parallel lines. Converging. You know, like, it's not that they can't. They just had other things to do. Now they're going to converge because, you know, it's this thing in his consciousness, but it's also this thing in the world.

And then. They bump into each other. How did everybody else read it initially, going back to when you were much younger watching it? How did you take it? I always took it as exactly the way, I mean, initially, I always took it as exactly the way he's saying it.

It was something born, supernatural, out of him and her. Like Ghost Rider. Yeah, like, yeah, there you go. Just like Ghost Rider. Just like Ghost Rider.

Just like Ghost Rider. Oh, sorry, to bring down Raising Her with Ghost Rider references. Um but yeah I mean it's it's again making this movie even more odd really I mean it's already got this weird quirky sense of humor and characters but then you're throwing in this sort of supernatural element in the middle of it that it is weird that it ever caught on in any mainstream way which is so minimal that it ever has but there's there are people that like this movie that I almost wouldn't expect to because of all of these elements put together that just kind of don't add up in any end like you wouldn't expect any of this like if you described all this stuff going on to somebody before this movie you would think this is going to be a mess.

And somehow they kind of weave it all together and make it work. Yeah, it's hard for me to really explain how I feel about it, but it reminds me of things like Nikolai Gogol, like the overcoat, where there's this other character, the very important person. that is kind of him, but it's kind of like a projection of, I don't know, it is strange. I think it works as fiction, but I think that's just because it's kind of in the nature of fiction, that I mean, usually the reason people write or do anything are real reasons that have to do with real things that they experience and But then they also project something about it that is kind of real, but at the same time completely made up. And so I think it's legitimate.

It's a legitimate fictional device to have something that is obviously, like, born out of... It's born out of the character's imagination. It's like, hi, wrote. That part, in a way. Well, it gets extra complicated when you get to the very end and you've got the tattoo.

Yeah, right. That it really kind of like, okay, wait, what are we looking at now? It is, and it's hard to make out, like, what that exchange was, because at the end he says, sorry. Yeah. It's so loaded, but it's incomplete, too.

It's, like, hard to say exactly what that means. And it's also just a great, you know, film moment as an action thing. It's kind of like the Casino Royale. Yeah. Moment where the guy realizes that he has his detonator tied to his belt.

That's just a great scene. I think the way they worked that scene was really brilliant in the way that if it was overly supernatural in a way that didn't make. I mean. normal people can handle movies that aren't based in reality as long as the whole movie seems like it's not based in reality. Yeah. You know, like, like Hellboy, you know, like none of that is real and that's apparent from the beginning.

This was a very, not overly realistic movie. I mean, it was all based in the real world. It was based in like reality with humans and normal things. And I think if, if it, if they would have just thrown that kink in there, people wouldn't have been able to follow it or process it. So the, I think they made it to where people who actually like sit and think about movies afterwards would be like, what does this mean?

Whereas regular people would just accept it as some like weird biker guy who's coming to get him. It's kind of genius. Again, it works both angles. It's genius that they didn't just get bogged down in explaining the armature of what they were doing, like, you know, an Inception thing. Yeah, 20 minutes of explaining.

It's just as long, boring explanation. It's just, you know, the dream is reality. Okay, just do it now. We get it, all right. Let us experience it rather than.

Think about it. You know, that's one genius. About them that... on a completely superficial level you can watch an old brother where art thou and my father can watch that and not think a moment about the movie and still enjoy the. Movie yeah yeah they can do that. Or or you could be a film student and write eight papers on one movie on one of their movies that's that that's you know the beauty of their their layers uh within.

Them of But they don't get stuck on just the intellectual armature of what they're doing. The intellectual aspect is there, but they focus on the experiential part of it to make a really great and involving movie where you're not just sitting around thinking how deep it is. Well, that seems like the perfect example of that mixture of them within this movie, but maybe of their whole career the more we talk about it. Because it really is like... You can look at that scene, and it's funny, you know, hitting him in the head with a board, cartoon violence.

Or, again, Dirty Film Geek can be like, okay, is this him wrestling with his dark side? Yeah. Is this him, you know, fighting with his evil past? And in the end, you know, he blows it up, and does that mean now he can go on and have this dream life? I mean, you really can, like, sit there and think about it and turn it into something deeper.

Or you can go, he just got hit in the head with a board. Yeah. It really works on both levels. Is it the original Fight Club that he's not even... Because until that scene, he could have been Leonard Smalls going into Nathan Arizona's office and saying, I can get you that baby.

And I can make money off it. It could have been him all along. That's why they have the tattoo, because they are one. In the same. But that's why it's a better movie than Fight Club.

Oh, hell yeah. Because Fight Club, then they start talking about the armature of what they're doing. And it's like, well then, you're not really. And they show you those scenes over again, which is kind of cheesy to me that they show you those scenes with. Him in them.

I still really liked Fight Club, because for some reason, I never put two and two together. Yeah. And I'm like, it like blew my mind. There are a lot of things that were really good about it. And it really blew my mind that no one had.

Heard of it. But I think Raising Arizona is a better movie. I think it's a more complete package. Yeah, I still like Fight Club more than most people. It's gotten a lot of hate in the last 10 years or so.

I hear everybody sort of do a 180 on it and be like, no, fuck that movie. And then they'll give you an hour why they hate that movie. But yet they put an hour of thought into the reasoning why. So it still kind of works on some level. Yeah, because it really does.

It works on a lot of levels, but in the end you feel like they kind of illustrate the idea of the movie at you rather than it doesn't feel like it completes itself as well as it began it's. Not as perfectly pieced together where everything in this in Raising Arizona just falls into place and works in that you know within that little world it is it is. And such a strange ending yeah it's projection into the future you don't know if it's real or not or how it could be or you know, it's obviously, um, it just leaves with, they have this kind of hope, but, um, and it's not too far from Fargo, where they've got that baby coming at the end, and, and, uh, She makes her husband feel better because he got the two-cent stamp.

Nobody uses the two-cent. Oh, sure they do. When you get stuck with a lot of the old ones. I guess she didn't know about the forever stamp. It's pre-forever stamp.

Oh, yeah. Back when there was still hope in the world. That's what it was. The forever stamps. You know, just ended.

Hope of all humanity. Yeah. Uh-huh. And there's a baby coming at the end of the big Lebowski, too. Yeah.

Do you want to address the Lebowski angles more? If you want to. I mean, I don't know. I think it's just the obvious stuff. I mean, we're sitting in the parking lot of the bowling alley.

You might as well throw it in there. I mean, I think it was just the really obvious stuff. I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it, but there's, you know, the central moneyed character, and then there's a kidnapping, and then there's sort of an everyman with simple wants and needs who has. The two male sidekicks, and there's, you know. I was going to say, Fargo falls into that too.

They really like this idea, don't they? The whole kidnapping thing. Kidnapping. There's really a lot that's repetitive in their stuff. And to where sometimes you get one of their movies that just feels it's kind of like it's by the numbers.

It's good, but it's not one of the ones that reaches past what they've done before. And for me, I expect to be surprised by them still. I don't really expect Tarantino to top Pulp Fiction. I'm not holding my breath. The Coen brothers could still do anything, it seems like.

They're going in such a weird direction. This is what's concerned me about their path. I'd sort of forgotten the nihilism aspect of The Big Lebowski until I saw it again. I hadn't seen this movie since it came out. For me, the last few years, I've been like, I'm really worried about where the Coen brothers are in their personal lives, that they've become so nihilistic.

Their films used to have so much heart, and the good guys always won out. Burn After Reading, every single person that has any sort of... any semblance of humanity is snuffed out in the most, like, immediate and, like, uncelebrated way possible. So that. And everybody. I mean, every single good character.

And I don't know, their whole sense of morality has changed. It's kind of like how the guy in, uh, um. No Country for Old Men doesn't even get a death scene. Yeah. You just find out later, oh yeah, he got killed.

He was the main fucking guy. What are you talking about? How do you do that? Well, that film, honestly, I'm going to go out on a limb and maybe make people hate me. Necessarily make people hate me.

When I saw that movie, I loved every single scene. Every single scene I thought was brilliant. At the end of the movie, I'm like, I'm not entirely sure... what the sum of these parts is. I'm not entirely sure what the movie is trying to say. So I went out and read the book.

And when I read the book, I was like, oh, I totally know what this is about. I totally understand this now. I understand that. It got the Oscar for the adapted screenplay. I understand that Cormac McCarthy gave it the seal of approval and thought it was fantastic.

I thought that it lost its meaning because that the Javier Bardem character in the book actually has a sense of morality, of like a really stringent sense of morality he thinks that he's sort of the hand of god and that he is presenting justice in obviously a really skewed way he's obviously a nutcase but he thinks he's doing something important and that didn't exist i thought in the film i don't know what your all's feelings is He. Just really seemed like a senseless bad character. I mean, he was scary. And I think that's what the dynamic of the movie was. Like, it wasn't a horror movie, but you were scared.

Like, he was scary. Yeah, I think he was kind of impenetrable in the movie. Like the guy in Fargo, the quiet guy, not the funny looking one. Which I always thought was like a really interesting way that they presented evil. Because people write about evil and they have theories about it.

And they had the funny-looking guy who was just transparent. He had authority issues, and he got in fights with parking lot attendants because they're in a uniform that bothers him, and he can't shut up. And you can just see how messed up he is in almost everything he does. And the other guy is just like a brick. And it's just like the inexplicable nature of evil...

And it was so slow, too. Slow, but absolutely deadly. Like, everything he did, he'd get around to it. Like, he's going to go kill these people, but he's got to find a band-aid. But he always catches up.

No matter how slow he goes, he always catches up. Even in the end, you know, he's just sitting there in the house, and Bushimi is leaving. He's marching off, but he just gets his shoes on, comes out in a robe, and beats him to death. It's like. There's like a Kafka parable about how the rabbit is just racing through the fields, but no matter how fast it goes, the dogs that are just playing in the yard are still going to catch up with it.

It's... I don't know, it's, there's something, and I think his character becomes that sort of bigger than life, inexplicable evil, rather than having something you could relate to, like a sense of right and wrong that explains why he can humanly do what he does. I mean, it's messed up, at least it's, It's an ethos, as they say. And listening to you describe that, that also kind of fits Leonard Smalls. Yeah.

That all of that kind of plays in, that you don't even have to worry about explaining why. He's just evil. And again... He just needs to be stopped because he's bad. And it just occurred to me that it's like in The Big Lebowski when he says, Nihilists, they don't believe in anything.

Say what you will about National Socialism, but it's an ethos. It's like... That's the difference. At least they believe in something. It's evil, but, you know, it's not nothing.

You know, the themes in their movies, like, just run through all their movies. Yeah. Good. No, I was just going to remark, like, even True Grit, which was sort of this family film, I haven't actually seen the original one, but I asked somebody when I left the theater if the ending was different, if they take it to that final place, because it seemed like it followed everything. This is what happened.

Everything works out. And then, by the way, we're going to add this scene just to go, oh, by the way, just so you know, ultimately everybody dies. Just so you know. No matter what happens, no matter how I save you, no matter how triumphant and heroic it is, oh. By the way, we're all going to die.

Spoilers for life. We're all going to die. Yeah, what was the early English. Was it Beowulf? Where they had this thing where every time they'd introduce something, oh, and they had this grand banquet hall...

And it was great before it all burned down and everybody died. And everything they did was so fatalistic. Like, they could never introduce, like, this character was so strong and a mighty warrior before he was killed and beaten into the shreds. Yeah. Well, but that, you know, you're getting into mythology and everything, but, you know, with the Vikings, their whole life was about death.

And the greatest thing you could ever do was to die. So. You know, that's... That's true. And have your ashes scattered into the wind and blown into somebody's beard.

But, you know, and that is how they handle it. I mean, you know, everybody does eventually die. Everything does eventually come to the end. Like you say in True Grit, no matter what you do or no matter how good or bad or how hard you try to save everyone, well, eventually we're all still going to die. Well.

Like, I think, sorry. No, well, I guess I was going to just say, you know, Javier Bardem's character or the Leonard Smalls or the, you know, there's always, and I know this is a very negative view of spirituality, but that's almost like they're God. Like, justice is coming, somebody's going to get you, you know, you can't do anything about it. I think more than that, with them, it's almost senseless death. Like you look at the Big Lebowski, you look at Steve Buscemi's character.

You're in the middle of this fight. People are going to get killed in any different way, and how does. He just random heart attack? Senseless, out of nowhere, going to die for no good reason. This parking lot looks pretty close to that, so one of us is going to die.

Or also like the Old Testament God and a serious man. You know, it's like he can't make this, he finally decides, and then it's like, okay, now God's pissed. It was like Schrodinger's cat. It was undecided. He hadn't made his.

Move, but.... Basically, the Coen brothers are a weird couple of guys. They're so coherent, though. I mean, they're so. They've definitely got something worked out that.

They're... They found that way to cross over and have mass appeal, more or less, and yet still be kind of smart. I think they always wanted that. I think they always wanted to be like, you know, movies that mattered to people. They didn't want to do like little movies that, you know, had their own little independent existence.

I know they did work, they have worked with small budgets, but I always think they're aiming for the big, you know, the world movie audience. I think she brought up a good point like if you do think about it like the first half of their like movie career all their movies ended on like a positive note you know like Raising Arizona and When He Sees Into The Future and all those movies and now they just don't like it's like you leave like at the end of Raising Arizona you're like oh and you're like uplifted you're like oh everything's gonna be okay and that was good but now it's just like I feel like going home and crying into a pillow. It's just, their tone has completely, I don't, I don't necessarily think their themes have changed, but I just think their overall tone in the movies.

Yeah. I thought I. Did see the, uh, the old true grit and it's weird how different it is. Cause the plane style is almost like, um, musical theater. It's so big and over the top and it's, uh, Oddly, the Texas Ranger dies in it, and he doesn't in the Coen Brothers version.

He just randomly dies when he's dragging him out of the hole. He, like, falls off the horse. It's like, bye, Glen Campbell. It's odd, too. It's weird.

But, yeah, a lot of people, you know, it kind of comes off as like an adventure, family adventure, but it is so dark. Yeah. It is so just... Like, when she watches the lynching, and you just see that look on her face, like, yeah, that's what I want. Yeah, and it's one of the most convincing lynchings in film, I think.

It looks like you're watching... I don't know. And then there are just other things. It's other little things about it that just seem so strangely twisted and dark that kind of you can sort of, like, pass over... Like that scene that nobody does in Shakespeare's Henry V, where they just freak out and they kill all the prisoners.

And nobody plays it. Nobody's ever done it, as far as I know, because it's just like running over something at night, and then you go, ooh, did I hit the. But you just keep going. There's just this gross feeling in your stomach. It's like, God, what happened?

Was that a hobo or what? Not that I've ever done that. I've never run over a hobo. Allegedly killed a hobo. I did hit a goose once.

And my kids were in the car, so I couldn't... I was like, oh. What's the matter, Dad? Nothing. You guys went goose for dinner?

Yeah. Oh, Lord. Alrighty. So, to wrap up Raising Arizona, I just, the one thing I guess we haven't talked about that I just wanted to hit quickly was the, just the visual style. I mean, again, this is two movies in for them, so.

Mm-hmm. Just how like impressive they were and how no holds barred it was that, I mean, it was just like, they kind of threw the rules out the window for just about everything. And to the, maybe that's just something you do when you're that early on in your career. Cause it's funny that it's rare that they do that. Now they've become very measured now and they've become, you know, just everything is a lot more in control where this one, I mean, that shot going back into the Arizona window, uh, and she's screaming is amazing and it's just like I don't know who would do that now and I don't know that the older Coen brothers would do that now I don't know but it's I'm glad that it's there, because I think that shot.

Kind of Hitchcock-like, in a way. Yeah, but sped up for sort of a comedic effect, but at the same time, it's kind of that slow lead-in. That he used to always do on his movies. Like from outside an airplane, and then through the window of the airplane. And then into a building.

He used to always set up the movies like that. Even from the silent days, I think he started doing that slow pan into... you know going into the the building to start the scenes i mean it's the kind of stuff he used to do but yeah 10 times faster and goofier and funny and they find a way to make it work even in this movie but but yeah stuff like that or just the overview of the world that they get those little edited together pieces like the shots of everybody sleeping which again sort of solidifies that this self-contained little world where you get those moments of of The kid behind the counter in Nathan, Arizona, in high ed. I don't know. It really delivers this sort of artistic take that, again, in a silly.

Comedy, doesn't have to be there. But they found a way. It's, again, impressive this early on in their career that they are that mapped out and that impressive to put stuff like that in there. It's just those little... touches. Again, the shot of him going for the baby under the bed at the beginning and then the fact that it's sort of repeated at the end when Leonard Smalls is dragging him.

Out from under the car. That's kind of genius. And the fact that they put that in there and these two young upstart kids making this movie decide to have stuff that thought out in their head and that planned ahead. Again, these are sort of the strokes of master filmmakers and they're two movies in. It's so weird to They were this good at this point in their career.

And that black station wagon. That's the perfect car for the movie. I've never even seen, I don't think I've ever seen a black station wagon until that. Well, now you really want one. To wrap up for me, I don't feel like I can do the movie justice talking about it.

I mean, you know, I feel like, I don't, you know, I haven't, you know, obviously, you know, when I get to listening back to the episode, I'm going to be like, can I do this movie just to me? It's so perfectly put together, almost everything. And sure, all movies have their flaws, but I couldn't recommend this highly enough to anybody. I can't imagine you listening to this show and not have seen it. I would hope at this point.

Yeah, it's a really great movie. I was so pleased to watch it again And I don't know. Overall, I guess their films are darker, but. I don't know. Somehow it doesn't bother me because I love my skull-crushingly depressing movies.

As your daughter has told me. I think the thing is, like, sometimes you look at a movie and you get involved with the characters and terrible things happen and you may feel like, there but for the grace of God go I. But another way of looking at it is, see you, see you, wouldn't want to be you. It depends on how you view the movie. Again, at least that's not me.

I mean, I'm. Joking about that. I mean, it's not like you're taking, it's not weltschmerz, like you take pleasure in the misfortune, but I mean, it is a fiction. It's a fiction, and it's, I don't know, the uplifting part is just the sense of connection with the vision of the artist. As bleak as it is, there's like a connection in the clarity of the vision.

And that's the real thing in the movie. The actual terrible things didn't really happen. The cool thing that happened is that these people put together this great thing. I don't know. I give up.

That's the best I can do for now. Alright, if that wraps it up. Let's go to Denny's. I'm all for that, but Do we want to walk in the bowling alley? At least take a look at these shenanigans?

Well, assuming there's not. Choosing a family movie is tough. It seems like all Hollywood can do is make mindless drivel that rots kids' brains. Who wants to see a movie like. What my dad watched when he was a kid.

Those films are so boring and the special effects are horrible. The movies he grew up with are. Sometimes a big surprise. I at times feel uncomfortable watching movies I loved when I was younger with my own kids because I forgot how much cursing, sex, and violence they showed back then. All we want to do is watch a fun movie that we all like.

That's why we created Family Movie Night, a podcast where we review movies from an adult. Perspective and from a kid's perspective. So you can find movies for your whole family to enjoy. We review new movies. Old childhood favorites, cult and foreign films, and Godzilla.

So check out Family Movie Night on the web at fmnpodcast.com or find us on iTunes. Bye! We are family. We are family. Maybe you've never been in a bowling establishment before.

Or perhaps you have, and it wasn't this kind of place. The carefully supervised kind that millions of discriminating bowlers take for granted today. In the approved places, where bowling is best, you'll always find a healthful, wholesome, family environment. So we are here in the bowling alley, as you can tell. surrounded by costumes. Do we need to describe some of our favorite costumes?

The costumes. There's plenty of people in robes, but that's okay. The Lego is quite amusing. There is a Lego version of John Goodman. Life-size, mind you, but Lego style.

The man dressed up as the rug. There's a rug here that is really tying the room together. That is pretty impressive. And you're right. There are a lot of good John Goodmans.

There are a bunch of dudes walking around, but it appears to be hard to get a long sweater. They've all got short sweaters. And we'll make fun of them and call them out for it every time. We're sticklers for this. This sweater is a pretty good one, though.

It's pretty close. It needs to be a little bit more tattered. A little lived in every day of your life. Right. Then there are a lot of people just wandering around as characters who I'm pretty sure are.

Not in the movie. Yeah, we're playing a lot of, wait, wait, what's the reference? Oh, okay, I get it. And then every once in a while? No, not a clue.

No, no. I don't know. There was some prairie woman. I don't know. There was the 50s lady.

In a little gingham dress or something. What was that about? We're trying to decide on the king and queen. Would it be. Funny if people confused, like people weren't sure about Lebowski Fest and they confused it with like the full Monty or something and people came dressed up like characters of the full Monty?

They'd just all be naked, right? Are we going to go up and ask anybody, who the fuck are you? Who do you think you are here? That's your job. Go for it.

What am I missing? Well, I mean, there's the king and queen. Should I go ask them? If you want. I don't understand the costume.

Is there a king and queen in the movie? The royal we. The royal we. You know the editorial we? There you go.

All right. Thanks. Cognitive business is all gone now. Cool. The royal we.

Ah, see? See? If you're clever enough, I guess you've got to get points. I guess you could bring in a Nintendo system with a crown on it. I don't know, that would be the other way to do it.

That's pretty awesome, actually. Please get on that for next year. Have we addressed her life is in your hands yet? Did you see them? They have to stand together, or it doesn't make sense.

Yeah, I just saw her life. and and fingers i remember. The toe i didn't know the fingers what was that about i still like the the one earlier that new shits come to light with the giant mound. Of crap on their head and uh yeah but. She told somebody she was a shithead. Yeah i think That's the fucking money you should have.

Yeah. This guy's got the look together pretty well coming up behind here. All right. They seem really happy I asked. And I like if you're just kind of a slacker girl.

All you have to do is put on the bikini and you're bunny. Right. Done. You can commit to the toenail polish though. That's something.

Can somebody come as Amy Mann and chop their toe off? Because that would be pretty awesome. That's dedication right there. I guess it's hard to find a Jesus suit. I always felt like there needed to be a sequel to wrap up the Jesus story.

I would think. At this point, we'll get to that later. Well, there was a. Rumor about it. All right.

That sort of killed everything. Yeah, you really can't record now. Not so much, man. Okay, Lucy's leaving. Goodbye.

Thank you for having me. This was great. Thanks for being here. Don't be shy. Just let your feelings roll on by.

Don't be shy. We'd like to hear from you. So give us a call at 502-365-5565. Or you can email us at geeksatmoviemeltdown.com. And just stop by the website for our frequent updates.

That's moviemeltdown.com. On by, on by. On by, on by. It's part of your problem, you know, you haven't seen enough movies All of life's riddles are answered in the movies And now, on with the show. Por el camino del desierto, el viento me despeina, suelo aroma de colita, no nada, nada de labio.

Ella de lo lejos, una luz en tela, la idea de Meján. Such a lovely place, such a lovely place. Well, I would have looked really bad in the customer complaints line. I'm glad you told me that. Could you invent some cheap little way that I could keep these from getting tangled?

Yes. Yes, here. And I wish I were taller. Yeah. All right, what else do we need?

A latte. I just want you to know that I got that Seinfeld reference. What? That's all I need to know. That's all I need to know.

Oh, you mean much earlier? No. Oh, just now? Yeah, I wish I were taller. Oh, I wish.

Oh, yeah. It was Elaine's New Yorker cartoon. My place is a sty. He slept with your wife. No, that's a complaint.

All right. Oh. All right, so we are back out here, sort of, in the vehicle. We're wrapping up for the evening. You're Lebowski'd out, are you? oh yeah there was there was a lot of people in a lot of costumes and and yeah it's it's amazing the amount of people that are that are just fully embraced it it is it is crazy out of control it's yeah yeah especially the costumes it is one step away having been to a comic-con for years now it's in this you know relatively normal size bowling alley to cram that many people in costumes It's amazing that it's on that level already, that people already are planning ridiculous costumes a year out, probably.

I'm sure the guy with the rug has been building that PVC armature for how long now, or the giant Lego guy. The Lego guy, that's a good year of work right there. That was a really good idea. Really well done, yeah. So it's amazing the amount of... to the fan base that is built up behind this thing now.

It is, it is out of control. You know what made me really sad about the Lego guy? There was no Lego dude, but just made me think that guy has no friends. He just doesn't click with anybody. It's amazing.

We have friends. All right. In a way to wrap up, I thought we'd do, this was one I found last week and thought it was a nice way to work it in as a, We'll do a miniature What's the Buzz here to wrap things up. Groovy. So it says, like many top directors, Joel and Ethan Coen have many projects that they talk about working on someday.

For the Coen brothers, this list includes the sequel Old Fink, a Jesus-centric spin-off of The Big Lebowski, and an adaptation of the James Dickey novel To the White Sea. Did we not say earlier there should be a Jesus side project? Yeah, I thought there was a rumor about it. I didn't know they were actually thinking of it. It says, following a comment earlier in June that they were working on a music-related script, it is revealed this week that Joel and Ethan Cohen are working on a script loosely based upon the life of folk singer David Von Ronk.

David Von Ronk was a central figure in the Greenwich Village folk scene in the 1960s, and his friends included singers who rose to greater fame, such as Bob Dylan, Ramblin' Jack Elliott, and Joni Mitchell. Von Ronk died in 2002 in his memoir, The Mayor of McDouglas Street, which was published in 2005, and is serving for the basis of the Coen brothers' script. So, along with the other two in the Weird Jesus side project of Leviglowski, now they're doing a folk musical? I think I've heard about that guy, because I think he was the guy that in the FBI files on John Lennon, they had a picture of him instead of John Lennon. How could they not know who a Beatle was at the height of their fame?

But somehow they got the wrong picture in the file. Nice. So yeah, it says, Coen's have already said that the script will be similar to movies like Margot at the Wedding, suggesting a use of natural dialogue and a sense of being dropped in the middle of an ongoing community. The project will also include musical performances in the way that could be seen as a follow-up to Oh Brother Where Art Thou? So, that is the next big...

That one, I guess, is the most official of the ones on the rumor mill of what they're sort of kind of working on in the background. A folk musical? Again, always going in weird, different directions. Yeah, I can see them doing something like Margot at the wedding because it's funny, but it's brutal. Yeah.

It's just brutal. So, yeah, hopefully. It almost seems typical for them now. I mean, I can see that fitting right in with the rest of their movies. So, yeah.

And it's one of those things where I can't judge them and their direction and what they know is right for them. Yeah, I mean, each one seems like it's a little weirder and different. And just sort of opening the spectrum up more and more. I mean, that's the same thing. You can go backwards.

Year and a half ago and hear me go true grit really what the. Hell no so i mean i heard about that it's like they're doing what. Yeah so i mean but even then i remember going but it's the gun brothers they can make it work so it's like same thing now i'm just like full musical thing it was like i can kind of see them being interested in that so all right go with it you can't argue with them but But at least, once again, according to this, there is a Jesus-centric spinoff of The Big Lebowski. That always felt unfinished somehow. It's like, wait, wait, but what happened with the bowling...

You hate. The character, but you want more information about the character. I don't know if a full movie, though. I wonder. It seems like you could have a little 15-minute short film about him that's pretty funny.

I just want 10 more minutes or something. And then the bar scene. 90 minutes, I'm like, are we going to get an SNL movie? Is it just going to be a skit that goes on way, way too long? Yeah i don't know but they also have this history of just messing with their audience so i don't know.

About all of these they could be playing getting done but this last one seems a little more official so yeah full musical well before we go i did want to say a Specifically Will and Scott who put it together and have put it together since day one. And have sort of built it into this big deal that it is now. It's found its following and it's kind of amazing. So points to them for finding that niche and putting together something really cool that people have taken to. So good for them if it sounds like something you're interested in.

It's now hitting tons of cities, like way more than you would have ever expected. So if you're not familiar with it and it seems like something you would be interested in, go to LebowskiFest.com and check it out. They've got listings for all the cities that are coming up and who they've got planned. They've got bands that play at every one. They've got showings of the movie.

They've got bowling. So it's all sort of tied into a whole couple, well, at least here, it's a couple of days worth of fun. I don't know. How the schedule changes in different cities, so you'll just need to go to LebowskiFest.com and find out where the closest stop is to you and go. Check it out.

All right, anything else we need to pass along this Lebowski episode? Yeah, I thought it was cool. I think I'm out of practice in being among the crowds. Yeah, when I started going up to people and annoying them, that's when I thought I... okay, this is how I should do this. Because these people want to be annoyed, it turns out.

When you're dressed in a costume, in that scenario, yeah, they kind of do want attention. You feed the ego a little bit. It's okay, they need that. I'm getting back into the swing of human society one of these days. Well, it will be interesting next week.

Get out your goater bins, because as of next week, we will be heading out to Fright Night Film Fest slash Fandom Fest. And Lord knows what we've got in store there. I'm working on many, many ridiculous ideas. You're just like the Coen brothers. Kind of.

I don't know that I'm talented in any way like they are. But I'm always meticulously working on some nefarious plan off in the future. Yes. Yes. Yes, I am.

So, yeah, look for that. That's probably at least a couple of episodes, I'm guessing, because we're going to be there all weekend. So we'll get a lot of useful stuff out of that. Cool. All right.

I guess that about does it. We will return next week. Same geek time, same geek feed. Thanks for listening. Thank you. so so Thank you.

Hey, he's blow up into funny shapes at all. Well, no, unless round is funny. This show is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by Brian Renfro. with opening music performed by the Empires. To help support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com for ways that you can contribute or advertise.