167: One More for the Kill List

I'm like starving and overly caffeinated and I'm already freaked out about talking about this. I'm afraid I'm just going to lose my mind. Falling Program is a proud member of the Palava family of podcasts. Check out all the shows over at palava.com. That's P-A-L-A-V-A dot com.

It's showtime. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power. To provide more cooling in the containment chambers.

To your citizens, we have a rebound. They call it a bucket list. We're supposed to make a list of all the things we wanted to do in our lives before we kick the bucket. Cutesy. Way down among Brazilians Coffee beans grow by the billions So they've got to find those extra cups to fill They got an awful lot of coffee in Brazil.

What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian. I'm Greg. I'm Fred. I'm Bo.

I'm Lucy. I'm Marlena. I'm Alan. And it is time for another session of the Caffeinated Movie Geek. Cappuccino my butt.

I still drink coffee. The last fucking thing you need is another cup of coffee. It's time for the Caffeinated Movie Geek. Once again, we are coming to you live via digital recording from Green Room Coffee and Espresso Bar. And with that, I guess we want to welcome back Alan as our host for this little session here.

Hello. Hello. The other Alan. Not me. Not that Alan.

Not that Alan. We've decided, yeah, there's an E and an A. Alan and Alan. They're different. You're not the same person.

We've decided that. We took a vote and we decided you're entirely separate people. What if we weren't? Or you could be Siamese twins. They don't know that.

I saw Siamese twin girls joined at the hair. That's not even trying. It's like they shared a ponytail. Can't you just cut it? I don't know if the surgeons thought it was weird.

Yeah, that's trouble. Sometimes they share a bloodline. At that point. Joined at the toenail. Okay, I was going to say something.

I was going to let it pass, but actually my mom says we're related to the Siamese twins for whom Siamese twins are named. That's one of my mom's stories. We're related to those twins that were from Siam and conjoined. These are the stories that we don't believe your mom on. We know.

Well, yeah. I have my own suspicions. That she's not even your mom. Yeah. How would I know?

Yes, Fred has two brothers named Alan. Well, no, one's named Alan, and one's named Alan. So, Alan, one or the other, take your pick. What blend of coffee are we drinking this week? You're drinking the Guatemala Antigua.

Very nice. Yum. Brewed with the AeroPress, this time exclusively. Fancy. We do, you know, bring in the high roll of coffee.

Right. All right, I think this one... We're already kind of chomping at the bit on this movie. I think we don't even want to distract ourselves with anything else up front. I think we need to take a break and just come back and get right into the movie because we're kind of scared. lucy lucy's afraid to talk.

About someday it may happen that a victim must be found i've got a little list i've got a little list of society offenders who might well be underground and. Who never would be missed who never would be missed there's the white kid with the baggy clothes who's talking like he's black the girl you date who doesn't get the jokes in caddyshack The Asian guy who cuts in front. Of every single line. And Britney Spears for accidentally showing her vagina. And Bill O'Reilly's ineffective dermatologist.

They'd none of them be missed. They'd none of them be missed. He's got them on the list. He's got them on the list. And they'd none of them be missed.

They'd none of. Them be missed. Oh, Golden, pure, creamery butter. Rich, flavorful, satisfying. That's what it takes for the finest buttered popcorn, and that's what we use.

See for yourself why there's no Showtime treat to equal the crisp, delicious flavor of hot popcorn that's bathed in real melted butter. It's at the concession stand now. There is something happening in Baton Rouge at the University Cinema, the American premiere of one of the most controversial and fascinating films of this decade. The Wicker Man, winner of the Grand Prize for Fantasy and Science Fiction in Paris. The Wicker Man, written by Anthony Schaffer, author of Sleuth, Celtic Witchcraft, Druidic Research, by Peter Schaffer, author of Equus, starring Christopher Lee and Britt Eklund.

The Controversy, The National Enquirer, April the 5th, 1977. Quote, In a desperate cover-up, rock star Rod Stewart tried to buy The Wicker Man, his girlfriend Britt Eklund's film. Rod wanted to keep the flick from ever being seen. Well, The Wicker Man will be seen. The Wicker Man has been resurrected, and the American premiere is now at the University Cinema.

Tweet Audio, your source for high-performance, noise-reducing earbuds. Available in three styles and seven colors... Through a hole in design to sound great for both music and those chatty podcasts, like the one you're listening to now. Tweaked Audio earbuds come with a one-year warranty, and now there's a special deal for Movie Meltdown listeners. Just go to tweakedaudio.com, and when you check out, enter the discount code MELTDOWN.

Then you'll get 33% off and free shipping. Tweaked Audio. Sounds better. Do you find yourself looking for a different type of genre podcast? Do you find yourself on the weekends wondering when you will find that one film that might change your life?

Well, then maybe you should check out The Gentleman's Guide to Midnight Cinema with your host Big Willie and the Samurai. Bringing class to the trash since 1977 and rocking the house. You can find The Gentleman at ggtmc.com Bringing class to the trash. This is Courtney Gaines, and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. Outlander!

Fear your woman! It's time for Sofa Theatre. Knock, knock. Where? Local, UK.

How many on the list? Three, not too strange, this. Is this the one you met at your sister's? Boxer size. Hey, man, tell you, a lot of fit women.

Releases sexual tension as well. Fuck's sake. I didn't know until you tried, you. She likes your raft, eh? Wouldn't you like to fuck her now?

I'm too old for that shit, so are you. Yeah, speak for yourself, grandad. Kiev was. Yeah, yeah, I know. Listen, man, it was eight months ago.

You gotta get back on the horse again. Do you know what I mean? It's all right. It's all right. You'll team back the guy again?

Two musketeers? You've made my shit work. All the ones. Who put me out All the ones who. Feel my head went down All the squares who cut me down You've made my.

Does everybody have their Kill List homemade? I brought an old one. I've got, like, notebooks. I have, you know, just an entire wall full. It's like seven at my house.

Just, like, notebooks and notebooks. Steve Buscemi style. Only sometimes do I wear that outfit. Welcome back to Movie Meltdown Sofa Theater. This week's Sofa Theater feature is Kill List.

The year is 2011. Director Ben Wheatley. The plot, according to IMDb, nearly a year after a botched job, a hitman takes a new assignment with the promise of a big payoff for three killings. What starts off as an easy task soon unravels, sending the killer into the heart of darkness. So he was in Apocalypse Now?

Right. Okay. Massive spoiler alert. No joke. We already warned you last week, but seriously, this is the kind of movie you really have to see.

And once we've talked about it, we've screwed it all up for you. So, stop now if you're listening. There's no turning back. Go watch this damn movie. It's like the proposal has twists and turns.

Ryan Reynolds, The Proposal? Yeah. Normally, it's where do you want to begin? With this one, it's just right off the bat. Fighting.

So, we get right into this couple's special relationship. So, um. I don't know. It's a very strange start to this movie. It's a very strange movie.

It's an abrupt opening. And then it establishes a lot of things really quick and sort of deftly, I thought. You know immediately that it's his story. And you just know that by the way he doesn't fight back when she's smacking him and And then his kid startles him and he cuts himself. Whenever somebody is having to put up.

With stuff, it's their story. Yeah. That's the way, I don't know, narcissistic fantasy operates. If somebody's putting up with stuff and not doing anything, it's their story. So I don't know.

I really liked it. I got into it. I believed the people. I believed their relationship. I believed the friendship of it. really enjoying it.

And by the time they're having dinner, I think whoever's making this movie really knows about something horrible and they have a story to tell me. Yeah, yeah. I'll skip to the end. And say it didn't really quite get where I wanted it to go. And a lot of the things that seemed really good and they were kind of poetic and interesting, in the end I felt kind of like you do watching Lost.

Like, what the fuck was that polar bear about? You know, it just didn't... I did really enjoy it, but it. I don't know. I guess I'm about 70-30 on it.

I'm sort of disappointed in the conclusion. I can see they were trying to get there. And it just really makes me think how hard it must be to pull off a really good movie. I really. probably don't have understand how hard that. Is this is a very what the fuck kind of movie and I think that's why we got it I was gonna send that little thank you I guess if you want to say that he says it might not be a thank you but Randy is the one that brought this to my attention and he had seen it and kind of had that reaction of what the hell did I just watch and immediately thought of us because that's you know that's what the hell did I just listen to so that's that's us So emailing me is like, you need to watch this.

You guys need to talk about it because I want somebody to break it down for me. It's like somebody needs to investigate what the hell it was I just watched. When it comes to the ambiguity, I mean, that's what I kind of liked about it because really leaving the audience members thinking what the fuck, I feel like that's what the main protagonist felt at the end. That's one thing I liked about the film in that Basically, you. Were on his level.

You knew as much as he did about whatever the hell was going on. They didn't let the audience in the know at any point in time. You knew as much as he did. And in the end, you knew as much as he did. And for me, that's what helped kind of build intrigue.

Because I'm like, where is this going? How is this going to pan out? I wanted to know, you know, how are these pieces going to come together? And even in the end, you don't get a distinct resolution. But I appreciate that.

Because all too often, I think, especially when it comes to suspense and horror films... The tendency is to give very clear-cut answers to what happened, but as soon as you do that, then the audience can then start rationalizing and trying to dismiss the logic as. To where the film ended up. If you leave it ambiguous, I think that's all the more unsettling. I agree, but I think there are things that are just some cheat.

I agree, too. Tell me. Yeah, what was some cheat? Oh, like her carving the thing on the back of the mirror. They're just things like they seem like they're pretentious.

I mean, I think it's really good, and yet I think it's pretentious too. I think it's not as good as it wanted to be. I kind of felt like they had two movies. So they had this really good. Character story between the friends and the guy himself, and then they also had the wicker man.

That was happening, and they had to have that ending for some reason. And it felt jammed on the end, like most of those kind of, like, satanic cult endings. I think the ending, they tried to make it bigger than it needed to be. I think they did, it does make a kind of horror sense, that, you know, you see them, like, the way his victims. seem weirdly familiar, like they know him, or they say thank you. I can see how they're going toward that ending, but I think they tried to make it a bigger thing than it really should have been.

Actually, if anything, I think they almost give you too much information as to what's going on. I think less would have been even more in this case. Well, see, I think that's what I thought. And I think you have to justify... being able to have such a big twist at the end. You have to have given you enough to chew on until that point, because aside from a few little things like the priest smiling and the guy saying thank you, and the back of the mirror, aside from those items, it was a straightforward go-out-and-kill-list movie.

And At first I thought cheap, I thought, to movies. But the more I thought of him as less of a what-they're-doing-to-him sort of progression throughout the movie and saw him more as the tool that they use as their, what I'm calling it, kind of a death wish system that they were going with, that he was the rope, he was the noose or the gallows. He was whatever they were, however they were choosing to be killed, that he was just their tool that they were choosing to use. And I thought they justified that fine, I suppose. I think the one that bothered me was either I wanted to, and I guess I want your opinion on this, either the wife was choosing this line And this outcome, or it was being done to her.

And I think they kind of left that ambiguous when she had her little, I'm going to take out all these people that are the home invasion point. I think that was the part that threw me. That was what confused me, too, because then at the end, she's laughing. And I was like, wait a minute, that's suddenly breaking. That was the only thing that really bothered me.

Was she laughing at the end? I didn't notice that. I didn't know if it was sheer hysteria, though. And I cheated on that point. Actually, because that was the one point that I had a problem with.

For me, the movie, I really enjoyed it very much. I admired it because I thought it was incredibly ambitious. But I think that ultimately it sort of fell victim to its own ambition. I think there was a lot that he wanted to squeeze in, and then. It didn't all necessarily work.

I loved it, actually, up until the end, when it's not that I felt that it became a different movie genre-wise, it's that tonally... I thought it was very subtle and interesting all the way through. And then the end was just this really silly sort of free-for-all. And I felt like it sort of betrayed everything that I had come to like before then. And so that final moment when she does laugh, I was like, wait, that doesn't make any sense because she's not in on it because she was shooting the home invaders.

And I don't know what's happening. So I looked it up. And apparently the director had said in the commentary that she was. not in on it and that the laugh was supposed to be ironic. Like, oh, the irony of this final moment. Which is the silliest damn thing.

Then I hate it. I assume it was just hysteria. Exactly. But no, apparently she was like, oh, of course this is how it would end. And scene.

This is how I would have wanted to go. I would have preferred the home invasion weren't there and she was in on it. As would I. See, I thought it was going to go something a little bit beyond Wicker Man. Something you hadn't seen before in the sense that basically... the people that hired him, obviously the people that hired him were these people within this cult and he was carrying out sacrifices for them.

I thought it was going to be a twist where essentially they were witch hunters and basically they'd hired him to take out this cult. And so he stumbled, when he stumbles upon this ritual, basically he got ahead. Of the game too fast. And, um, because he, they made the comment that there was like going to be a reformation or something along that line when they went to. Go seek out an explanation.

So, um, I'd almost thought that that's what was going on, was he was basically, these were these puritanical sort of characters, but they were above killing, or they were just capable of it, and they hired him to do what their ancestors had done, or something along that line. I feel that shift in tone. It's like the tone at the end, it just, and early on, they were so good at establishing a tone and maintaining it, It was really masterful without getting into that area where it seemed forced and mechanical. They had to hurry up. They ran out of time.

Well, that's the problem. They really started the conspiracy movie at the end. I mean, they had the little triggers and everything, but the story up to that point is still that guy's story, and they didn't really finish that. And you know what else? They didn't resolve it anyway.

I just now thought of this. The way they blew past Gale dying. it's fucked up right there because that was such a big, their relationship was such a big part of. The movie up to that point. Then he's dead, and then it just goes on, and there's home invasion. It's like they're sort of like throwing away a lot of what they built.

Yeah, because near the end it was like nighttime, daytime, nighttime. It was almost instantaneous. And he was actually one of my characters, the gal or gala. Gail um he i really loved all the sort of workaday. Elements he really.

Was amazing and just the you know i like that line where he was like you know it doesn't cost more to say pleased and thank you and it was just like i just loved this. Idea of this you know these working blokes i. Believed them i really believed and i believed their relationship and how they knew how far they could go with each other they could fight and that was just so credible and i i don't know i was It's disappointing in the end. But I still really enjoy the stuff that I enjoy about the movie. Speaking of, the fight scene when they're rolling around in the house, that felt so real.

Because there's so many times where two men are fighting and it's... Yeah, an ideal fight, whereas this was, you're going to tackle each other, you're going to claw at each other. It's not the face, not the face. Right, yeah, you're going to be out of breath immediately. They fight like children.

Right, right, but that's how a fight goes. Remember the old westerns where they would fight and fight and never get out of breath? Quiet man, you fight all the way across the country. Yeah. Because I haven't been able to get a word in yet.

I've just been letting it go because I've got a lot of other stuff. The conclusion I kind of drew, kind of going back a little bit, but I spent like several hours just sitting and thinking, trying to rationalize everything. And I went back and watched a couple. I wanted to watch the whole thing again, but I watched a couple of scenes. And I kind of determined, and this may just be wrong, but I feel like it's ambiguous enough that you can kind of come up with whatever explanation you want.

And if it fits, you're right. So I feel okay about this. That I felt like they were recruiting him for the cult. which, I don't know, since now I realize she's laughing at the end, it kind of throws that off. I can't, I don't know, I can't see them recruiting him because, I mean, it's just like, well, you killed your kid, so, hey, you're in. What, are you going to diss us now?

Well, like, they crown him at the end, though, and then, I mean, the hiring him to take out people, that makes sense, too, and I kind of like that one better, but I'm. Going to still buy it. See, I feel like basically at that point when they crown him at the end, you're just seeing the first part of something way the fuck bigger. But that's basically the point to where suddenly he stumbled into this and suddenly he's like, wait, what? And then that's where they cut.

As if there's just something even huger that comes beyond that, but he's still a pawn in it is almost how I felt when it came to it. Because I couldn't, you know, if they wanted him to join, then why would they manipulate him so much was my whole thing. It's a method of brainwashing. I suppose. My sense the whole time, and from the, From the time that the second character said thank you, from the time that the librarian said thank you, I, from that moment forward, always thought that he was always destined by blood to be the Antichrist or whatever this was.

Because of that moment where she takes his bloody tissue from the. Bathroom, which was a moment that I also didn't think was earned, because who has a dinner party and doesn't throw away their bloody tissues after shaving accidents? But anyway, when she takes it and puts it in her bra or whatever she does, I always felt that this was his blood right and they had to do the tests, and they had to do all of it to get to the point where he could accept it and become it. I mean, he's a dude's dude. He's a killer.

He's not going to work if the bathroom's clean, I guess. Well, you'd think at least the Swedish wife. Yeah, that's true. There are some interesting dualities that I wish I could give credit to myself, but I read about this. It's like, for example, there are fighting with the foam swords and the sun is on the mom's back because.

When it happens i'm sorry i just told you no you're fine but it's so cheesy. And overly and it's like slow motion and you're. Like what are they doing with this scene and then. When it happens at the end you're like that was the clumsiest foreshadow like. Over the top it's like super good but it's also pretentious that's I don't know.

There's other little things, too, like when the cat brings, like, kills the rabbit on the earlier gal, or Gale brings the rabbits, and then the rabbit's got the intestines spilled out, and the gal's got the intestines spilled out. Is this that guy's first movie? No, he did. This is his second, yeah. Down Terrace was the first one, which I want to see now.

Yeah. Because I liked this one. Yeah, watching this made me ask that, too. I was like, this guy's got a lot to say, and he seems like he's got to say it real fast and all at once. Yeah, like, or is it his first, like, horror, like, theme movie?

I don't know. Would we call this a horror, though? I don't think I would. I would call it horror. I'd call it a thriller or anything.

I don't know. I thought it was horror from about the point where they're having the dinner conversation. It's a domestic horror film. And so what do you do? And she's like, she's a hatchet man.

A hatchet person. A hatchet person. And I thought, oh, and these guys are hired killers. And they're, yeah. I don't know.

I really felt that this person had something to tell, and I don't feel that way in the end. At the end, I feel, well, maybe they have some concept of a story to tell, but I don't really think they know what they're talking about. I think he does, though. I think it was supposed to be a really ham-fisted political allegory about the war. And it wound up.

Being so obviously that I thought, I don't know, anyone else can weigh in on that. But, I mean, the whole deal is that there are these killers for hire that he starts rationalizing. It because he's like, well, this guy's a pedophiliac. Yes. Pedophile.

That's the word. Pedophile. He's addicted to batteries. He bleeds easily. Yes.

Which they do, by the way, as it turns out. Well, they may. Let's see. But, you know, so he sort of starts developing this bloodlust because he doesn't just want to kill the people he has to kill. He wants to kill all the people that those people are associated with.

And it gets so crazy and sort of to the point where he just wants to blindly kill people that he sort of conceptually thinks are bad to the point that he accidentally, oh. Wow, kills innocent women and children. And it's like, oh, okay, I get it. See, that's where something I watched, and I almost felt like, you know, that was unnecessary to even legitimize. Like, the librarian is the pedophile.

I was like, eh, I actually would have liked it better. If it was just a librarian, because that, to me, is more unsettling and just bizarre. It's like you're paid a shit ton of money to kill a librarian. Right. And that's it.

Right. But that's different. Yeah. And it leads to more killing, which is really all we want, is that extra little scene of more killing. What is the significance, and it might have been totally over my head because I've rocked my brain about it quite a bit, of the cutting his hand?

And he at one point has an infection throughout his body, then it's not there, and the doctor is... I think that was just getting him. To the doctor. That was my sense of it. What did he say when he first cut his hand?

He was like, I just have to be sure, or something like that. It's necessary. It's necessary, yeah. I don't know, like, the whole thing with his blood, and then I felt like that was just to get him. To the doctor.

To the doctor. Because there's always that scene in those movies where they go to the doctor, and they're like a doctor and Rosemary's baby. There's always a doctor somewhere. See, I didn't interpret it as that point. Or Lebowski.

Lebowski. He's very thorough. He's a good man. I figured that was almost going to be potential use for blackmail later. It's like, well, no, you can't turn on us because we've got your blood as they would use for something else.

But you say that and his hand is really infected and then it's not. It goes back to. Something that I started thinking about what Alan was saying. When it comes to all the foreshadowing with the rabbit and the intestines and with the kid playing with the sword and all that stuff, as to exactly how much all this really happened. That's a possible thing to consider, is that maybe a lot of this, he was just starting to have a breakdown due to his job.

He seemed to be starting to have a breakdown. They kind of hinted that, and so it's possible that the fourth act is all just at that point a delusion from his point of view that you're going along with. That's why there it would almost sort of legitimize the implausibility of it all. I don't know. You mean the shift it does that's kind of like adaptation?

The end of adaptation where suddenly we're not. Dealing with a. Yeah. Does he stop taking his prescription medicine? Because at the beginning you see him almost religiously taking it.

You know, every day they make it a point to show you that he's taking it. And then he's... Many days go by and they never show him speaking again. Actually, I think there's like the point to where after the second killing, that's when he's taking, she makes a comment, he's. Like, oh, you just take a few a day or something.

He takes like a handful with booze or something. Yeah. If I recall. I mean, is he potentially then not in, you know, in reality? I mean, that would make sense too, why that, you know, maybe the doctor really was I don't know.

Again, I'm confused the more I think about it. And then he starts to suspicion that there's some sort of weird cult thing, and that's why he sees it. And that's, again, what goes into what I like about it, is that there is so much ambiguity. It's open to a lot of different interpretations. Yeah, I don't know.

I just think the opening is so good, you want to help it, but it doesn't really achieve the poetic cohesion that... you wanted it to. That's the way I experience it. It also was just one of those horror films where about every. 20 minutes it was taken a different direction, which at least kept me invested in it. It reminded me of when I saw Martyrs just a couple months ago.

That was a French horror film where they very much did that about every 20 minutes. It completely switches gears. Not unlike a say from dusk till dawn except that's only one switch midway or same with psycho i mean this is like frequently and i feel like you got that from this film too. Get that in red state i did yeah just what movie is this and then all of a sudden it's something completely. Different yeah i finally watched that and that's yeah like three times it became different than what i expected going in so it's yeah.

Red state not red dawn Sorry. I haven't seen either, but I really want to see Red State. Red Dawn stays on the road. It knows where it's going. Red Dawn, great.

I have to recommend it. I've still not seen it, but I kind of want to. They're remaking it. I don't know if I'm... I really...

I generally am a proponent of naturalistic realism, but this was so good in that respect. The dialogue and the way that people interrelate, and the way they look, too. I mean, they're not people who look like people in a movie. They look like, I mean, they're not ugly people, but they look like somebody you know that, you think is attractive, and then you meet their family, and there's like that family resemblance, and it sort of makes their looks look weird. You know what I mean?

Yeah, they're really interesting to look at, especially that guy, Gale. I could just watch him go through his day all day. There's something he's really convincing, and I think. When he does the line when he's talking to their employers, if they don't do this, they're going to be killed, he's like, There's no wiggle room. Oh, that guy said cheese.

Yeah, he's got that kind of attitude the whole time. It makes it work. It makes it a lot more plausible. I think my favorite thing of his was his apology to the Christian group at the restaurant. It's like, if you talk to the big guy, put in a good word for us.

Double orange juice for everybody. It's funny, too, the whole time it's going on. It's like he's trying to keep a poker face, but he's still sort of. And he buys them all a round of orange juice. That was the one thing I told my wife about this.

She said, well, since you had so many thoughts about it, maybe I should watch it. And I said, with me, more often than not, with a horror film, and I described it as a horror film, I like that romanticized violence of you know it's not real. You know that you're just playing around with it. But when you feel. Everything about it, even though, like you said, the dialogue, the circumstances they were in, how the killings happened, and the attention to detail on some of it, it just felt too...

I don't like that. I don't like... Well, it was like in the funny games, when they sit in the room after the one... you know, murder. And they, I don't know how long it was, but. It felt like 10 minutes.

It's like 10 minutes. It's a long shot. It just, it, it hurts to sit there in that. And that, that was one thing. I mean, I, I really didn't like that movie, but that scene, I could see the beauty in that scene because it was there.

But anyway, we're not talking about the movie, but I, I said, no, don't watch this. Cause I know who you are as well. You're going to have more fun, you know, with, fake blood. This is far too real for. It's like the scene where he's pounding on the librarian.

I honestly looked away. I couldn't look away, but I was literally rigid with shock. I didn't look away, but it's rough. I think the last time I remember being taken aback by that sort of violence was in The Horseman. It was an Australian film a couple years ago.

It's just about this fellow who finds out that his daughter was killed and he starts... Looking around, it turns out that she was involved in this low-grade porn industry and just starts picking off characters that he believes responsible for her getting. Involved in her death. But very, very violent in that sense, too, because they just take this everyday average. Man who just gets pissed off beyond belief.

Wait, which man? The horseman. Isn't that a George C. Scott movie, too? Yeah, I think it is.

Yeah, that's one Randy was telling us about. It sounds exactly like that. No, no, no. Yeah, it might be just their version. I don't know.

The only frame of reference I have for that quality of violence depicted is Valhalla Rising. That wasn't violent. But the couple of scenes were that level of shocking. I was expecting this hyper-violent movie, because that's kind of the impression I'd got from the trailer, from random blurbs that I watched, and I was like, when is it going to get violent? So all of a sudden, I was just kind of bored, and I feel like it shouldn't have been, because it was.

No, no, no. It was really beautifully shot. Well, I feel like the way it was used in this one was the level of quality that they used in that for effect rather than it being the main thrust of the movie. But they did use a lot more of it in this movie. I just, from The Hall of Rising, I thought there was a whole lot of creaking boat and waiting around.

Yeah. Is that the fourth act or whatever? It's just like forever? Yeah. I need to see it again now that I know not to expect tons and tons of violence just because....

That's how I know I've watched too much of this stuff. Because I watched this and I had my normal, you know, what the fuck did I just watch moment that everybody had with just the story. But then again, I emailed Randy and I was like, yeah, I just watched it. And I was talking about, you know, we're going to try to put this together. And he was talking about the violence.

And I was like, oh. Yeah i guess it was fine it didn't occur to me that it was excessively violent so i think i have problems he told me he's worried about me and i need to start watching more disney films it might be true but and i since then was that was my thing i was like well the effects were really good like i still i was like it looked real i mean that's that's something no no i I'm just desensitized way too much. It's not an issue for me, but I cringe if something's awkward. It's like, oh, that's embarrassing. I'm the guy that has to change the channel during the Wonder Years if it gets uncomfortable because he's made a faux pas.

I can't relate. I was worried about that table scene at the beginning because I felt just as awkward as if I'd been at. The table, too. It was so amazing. Yeah, exactly.

Where do I go from here? It was so believable and so, I don't know, it was really good. That's when Gale, I fell in love with him. He takes the kids upstairs. The whole little.

Dialogue he has with them was, what's wrong though? They're just drinking. Don't drink. Not even water. But I knew he was going to die then too.

You don't have someone that does horrible things but is also that pure that lives. They're just going to die. He says they did horrible things. I guess they did because they were hitmen, but one of my favorite lines was when they're walking. the fire and the main guy is just like, it doesn't feel wrong. They're horrible people.

They deserve to suffer. Just really chilling. And when I thought that, the more I thought about it, I was like, does that apply to everyone, specifically them? Are these two sitting there watching the fire, are they the horrible people and they deserve to suffer? By the end of the movie, you're like, oh, well, okay, maybe you're right.

Maybe they do deserve to suffer. And this is it. This whole grand scheme of things is them suffering. I don't know. I think going back and watching that again, I was like, yeah, that, that kind of has a different ring to it.

Now going back to the, the it's all in his head theory or, or something. And the, the dualities thing I noticed, and this may, I may just be making this up, but sure. The cat brought him the rabbit and then later Gail brought the rabbits. I feel like the, what was the main guy's name? I keep, Jay.

Jay, okay. I feel like I saw just sort of this look like he just kind of noticed this coincidence. Like there was a weird look on his face, which may just be. I don't know. So maybe it's all in his head and he's just kind of a weird sense of deja vu.

Yeah, there were a lot of things that were kind of little points of similarity. I love the thing about him eating the rabbit. I thought that was going to be the cat. I thought. And I love the wife saying, he's showing off.

See, I love that part because we have a pet rabbit, and I always tell my wife, you know, if that thing ever dies, I really want to cook it up and eat it. And further away. That's not cold at all. But then it looks so good in the frying pan. When we were just out there sitting and eating, I was like, that looks so good.

Theoretically, I suppose it is possible. He killed the MP. I mean, maybe he just. Did just at that point snap and just kill his partner and go back and just kill his son. I suppose it is entirely possible in his mind he'd construct all this and courage.

I guess I was following the line more that it just seemed like, you know, they're killers. And then they're having this awkward dinner conversation with a person who, you know, fires people And she's waiting for a comment. And then as time goes on, he's sort of rationalizing what they do. It begins with he doesn't want to work. He doesn't want to do what he does.

And I believe the conflict. With him and his wife. He doesn't want to do it. He's going to do it because they're running out of money. But that reluctance and then he starts rationalizing it because the people are terrible people.

And then he starts, you know, um, going berserk, kind of overdoing it. And it just seemed to me that that's necessarily where the movie is going. And I, I see how it kind of makes sense that he winds up, um, you know, he's trying to distance himself from the people he's killing and winds up killing the people close to him, which you can tell he really does care about. But, um, That's the logic of the movie. But then it just has this extraneous, pretentious crap, which I can't really make sense of.

I can't resolve it. I don't think it needed that big an ending. It changes what kind of movie it is. And it doesn't really earn it. And it's not even that it doesn't really earn it.

It's better than that. It earned something better than that. It earned.... Something it didn't earn that because that's not worth you know you could have had any horror movie lead up to that ending and i can see how conceptually it makes a kind of sense but um it just loses its way getting there for me um because i i get so into the world that they've created it just seems like a different world in the end and you say. That i bet you that it almost I wouldn't be too surprised if it started out as a very simple horror premise to where it was just going to be in the vein of the Wicker Man.

And then once they became so invested in the characters, it became a different breed amidst production. And then suddenly it's like, okay, we've created this entire world around these Hitman characters. That are far more interesting than we thought they would be. And the audience invests itself in something different than what the filmmaker did. It's supposed to be interesting to.

Hear what he. The guys developed that relationship, and maybe they didn't know that it was going to be that good. I don't know. So am I the only one that read it as political allegory? I just felt like there were.

So many people that read it. I see that in it. And then there's that, when he's telling the little boy the bedtime story, and he's like, well, this is just a story, and he says it takes place in Baghdadistan, and it's just like, it seemed like everything was. There is one that I was just going to wait because it's not mine. Again, I, I try and usually I try not to go looking for too much because I just want to kind of come up with what we come up with.

But specifically because Randy wanted to try to figure out what the hell was going on. I felt like I needed to try to find more answers. So, I've got two different wrap-ups that somebody else came up with, and I will credit them for that, but I was just kind of letting us get all of our thoughts out there, too. So are you saying there's somebody out there that agrees with me? Yes, there is definitely a very detailed political version that we can get to by the end of this.

Yeah, I felt that that was there. I just am not particularly looking for it. I think if I had more background... as to especially British politics. But it's kind of American politics, too, because they became so intertwined with what we've been doing. Yes, but I still believe I was missing some of that.

And there's even that moment where they're like, can we send other people in that look like us? Which is fun. That's great. There are so many things I love about that moment. I can see where that was there, but I don't feel like it was there.

You know, I see that it's there, but, you know, for that to, you know, it still goes to timeless, you know. I think they did that relatively well, if you want to take that from it. Because it's so subtle that, you know, you don't, I mean, it's definitely planted there, but you can also just watch a horror movie, you know. You can watch, or this Hitman movie, or whatever you think it is going in, it's like you can kind of watch the movie that is presented, at least the first three-fourths of it, and then the end is a whole different thing. That is a common trend within horror, is using whatever creature is on screen as an allegory for something.

In real life. It's not too far from the church. It kind of completes it with the ending, with the mysterious rich people running everything, the ones left standing, and their life screwed up. You come with recommendations. They're well-earned.

Good. I hear Kiev was stormy. I'm in the process of rewriting it. Good. It's important to learn from one's mistakes.

I was fine. One thing that bothered me is you have two assassins, special forces guys that are armed. Outwitted and outmatched. I mean, they have, you know, a submachine gun, pistols. There's only maybe 20 of them.

They have, you know, they're clotheless and shoeless, most of them. I just kind of felt like they're running away after he started firing and just almost giving up when they were caught. That they could have taken out far more of them than they did. They were overwhelmed too easily, I thought. There was a lot of them, though.

For as close as they were. I mean, he was picking them off at first, but at that point, they were close. I mean, yeah, that scene is actually one of the more horrific scenes. There's something to be said in that, too, right? If we're seeing this as allegory.

People said they got the numbers. But the one thing, too, that I was kind of wondering is, was that intended? Did these cult leaders want them to be pushed so far that he would just open fire and kill like half the cult? I mean, were they supposed to be killed just the same as everybody else, or was that just sort of incidental? That was one of the other things I wondered about.

Well, they obviously didn't care about dying because they were running right into the fire. Yeah, there didn't seem to be any less of them after they were killing. You know, almost like in a nightmare sense that they kept, you know, reproducing the horde. There were more of them, even though they just kept taking, you know, they took out, you know, 10 or 15 of them by the time they got deep into the tunnel. And I, I don't know.

I think it was about half on the ground and half in the tunnels. And at least there, I mean, the onslaught didn't continue. I mean, he had time to go home while I guess they just recruited in numbers. But again, I guess if, if the ultimate attempt was to get him to kill his son, I just didn't get to where it was necessary to, one way or the other to have so many of their cult members die. I mean, I don't know.

But if it's an honor to be killed by the Antichrist, then. That's the thing. That's assuming if he's supposed to be the Antichrist, too. Or God. However you want to look at it.

Well, the logic of the plot makes. He kills his son. There's some sigmata in there somewhere. There's a lot going on. That's the thing.

I mean, the filmmaker is throwing so much out there. But see, it also might be prepping him for him to be sacrificed. Maybe he has to carry out all those sacrifices and be sacrificing it of himself. That's possible, too, because they cut it off at the end where, again, it leaves you at the point where it's like, okay, is this at the end of the ceremony or is this essentially the beginning of something much, much bigger? The beginning.

The crown dark prince. It is, yeah. I don't know the logic of the plot. Makes sense to me in terms of a political allegory. I think the thing at the dinner that sets him off is she says something about, like, when was the last time he cared about taking care of his family because he hasn't worked.

And so I guess the irony that he was going for at the end when she's laughing, the irony is by going out to take care of his family, he winds up killing his family. And, I mean, the logic isn't the problem. It's just. The way it gets there, stylistically, it breaks the dream. Of the movie.

Yeah, I agree. I just wanted a more, totally a more subtle ending that corresponded with everything that we had experienced there before. Yeah, it was weird, though. Until now, I hadn't really, and even now, I don't know if it was necessarily a recruitment thing for him. What do you mean?

I don't know if I can just see that as a recruitment thing. I just think I see it more as just he's a cog. I mean, they even refer to them as being cogs. I almost feel like he's just another incidental character in this grander ritual. It's like he's not the end product.

He's just something else that they need. But so why were they, like when he kills the various characters, why are they so grateful? Why do they... recognize him by sight. Why? Because he's the rope.

Why is Fiona so into him? Like I said earlier, he's the rope. They're honoring the death or the person sacrificing themselves. They're not honoring the character. Yeah, basically, they're thankful that he's basically going along with this grandeur scheme that they have in mind.

Even though he's unwitting, they're like, oh good. But there's clearly something special about him that's not special about Gale. I'd consider that maybe that's the reason he had his hand cut so they had something by which, like, to recognize him, the guy with the cut hand bandage will be the one to, I don't know. Yeah, like when you're babysitting twins and so you scratch one of them. I'm not letting you babysit, by the way.

Because they'll mess with you. They'll say, no, it was her. No, the one has a mole. If the cut needed to get blood, it might have been to a certain extent to control him. a lot of, you know, voodoo rituals or something like that, and maybe part of that was to influence his hand, so to speak. Yeah, literally.

Yeah. I mean, it is funny, I hadn't thought about some of the religious overtones you were talking about, Lucy, but it is funny how much, for a movie that the first, you know, two-thirds, three-fourths of it isn't about that, how many times they sort of start planting that stuff, that you do have, like, just her sitting at the dinner table going, you know, I didn't really understand the whole Irish thing. They're all the same religion. And he's like, no, no. And again, she kind of says Christian with this tone.

Well, and then she won't let him pray at her table either. Yeah, that's the other one. They throw that out. There was, I think, what else? Well, again, he goes off on the people singing their religious song.

That one's pretty obvious. The symbol is almost a Celtic cross as well. Yeah. The one that she makes. Yeah.

And then him having the discussion with the son about the cat going to heaven. And he sort of doesn't believe in that, but he still has to have the discussion with the kid. And then he doesn't believe in cat heaven. He goes, well, cat heaven. All dogs go to heaven.

Cats. I don't know. You know, the heaven in All Dogs Go to Heaven is horrible. I wouldn't want dogs going to that heaven. I never saw that movie.

I think we had it, but I always imagined it was written by a cat. You've never seen All Dogs Go to Heaven? No. I imagine it was written by a cat and it was All Dogs Go to Hell and then the studio got hold of it and they said, we're going to make some changes. The ending's not testing well.

With the audience. I picture a cat rider with little elbow patches. Here's my script. And the studio's like. I.

Just recently had to babysit for the first time, which was horrifying. Was it twins? No, thankfully not. I found that actually the easiest thing in this day and age is just put stuff on the TV. That's what every parent does.

So I put on All Dogs Go to Heaven. I hadn't seen it since I was like 10. I was watching and I was like, this is amazing because it's film noir. And I never picked up on that as a kid, but it very much is. It still didn't make me like it any more than it did as a kid because I was kind of viewed as mediocre when I was young.

But still, I was like, I never noticed that before. It's also Highway to Heaven for dogs. Yeah. Reynolds is no Michael Landon. No, not Michael Landon.

Then the Atheist Channel had a version of Highway to Nowhere. That sounds interesting. Is there an Atheist Channel? I think that was actually a Johnny Carson joke. I don't know.

It goes back that far. A big TBS. That's the Atheist Channel. I can see an Atheist Channel being a thing. Yeah.

I tried watching Head No Soul. There's something missing. But I'll fuck. They should do that. That'd be fun.

That'd be the game. I want to see if you guys saw this, or if this is just not there at all. When the procession of the crazy cult people is going, when you first see it, there was an Akira Kurosawa movie called Dreams, and the first bit of that movie is called The Fox's Wedding, and there's that whole long procession of The Fox's Wedding. The music in that scene was sort of a riff on that, I thought. And also just the way it was filmed, too.

Right, I was like, that's really cool, because they're hiding in the forest. Yeah, they're like hiding behind a tree, and the music's like this really drum kind of thing. But that's a scene that sticks out in my brain. But I wonder how much. It would be Kurosawa influence.

I wonder how much of that kind of stuff is going on there for you guys, because. I mean, I saw more, I saw less of that, now that you say that, though, I can really picture it. I saw more just, you know... the wicker man more than anything. Yeah. It struck me very heavily when we got to that point.

And there's a lot of different elements too, of just those cult films to where, you know, somebody who stumbles their way into something both bigger than they realize and more supernatural than they realize that you had going back, you know, a few decades. And it even kind of, um, to me reminded me to a certain extent of films like curse of the demon or burn, which burn, um, In the sense that you've got this character that leads a semi-normal life, but then bumbles their way into something that is far more sinister than they realize. You know, the other thing that you can possibly take from, especially the different takes that we all have on it, in that it's maybe not as tight or neatly wrapped as it maybe should be.

I don't know, does everybody kind of feel that way that maybe not as tight as it should be. Well, it's not as tight as it should be, but I'll say that when you compare it to the majority of the horror films that come out, it's way ahead. Right. I do think it was tight insofar as I felt like every line of dialogue, like everything had a purpose. I agree.

Which is sort of rare. So it was very well crafted. Sorry, go ahead. Oh no, but I think my point in that would be you are dealing with a cult and a group of people, because I think the group's the cults probably all bring their own desires and wants and kind of even thoughts of what are we doing here to the table. And it could just be that even they don't know the real path of how everything's supposed to transpire.

Um, with, is he being recruited? Is he, you know, the antichrist? Is he, you know, you may have different opinions. You know, some of the people were wearing clothes. Some of the people were wearing home are, hood some of the people were completely naked you know what are they bringing to the table in their own experience with the cult and maybe that's why it's just fucked up because even they don't know what path they're going down the guy that cuts his hand maybe that was just for him it has no other significance other than he thinks it's significant that he should do it i don't know i and that's probably reading way too much into it um it probably makes me feel better about it it's.

Kind of taken a big like a big view of the whole idea like none of these people really know what's going on it's just sort of you know everybody's doing the best they can with with the available information that's. I'd say that's true with most cults with the exception of the people in charge they like to keep everybody not knowing what's going on so that they do what they tell them to do i say. That too and it kind of becomes allegorical then like Lucy was saying, but just for religion in general. Because then makes a comment early on, they're like, what are we on the. Crusades or something like that?

And it could almost be, you know, sort of an allegory there for just the crusades themselves basically these religions sending out people to kill for them who might not necessarily. Believe in what they do right. And in the end it just leads to the formation of ceremonies that in the grand scheme of things might not make a lot of sense. And the same thing with government especially our own because um with the military or government uh jobs it's so compartmentalized intentionally compartmentalized that you don't know what the next unit or what the next department is doing and why that you might think that you're all on the same path and you're not and it's intentionally done that way so that Well, so that they can hide and cover up, I think.

And that's how the Crusades work. That's how the wars that we've been involved in have worked. And so, therefore, that only bolsters the allegory. Yeah, I think a much more satisfying vision of a world like that is any by-the-numbers Coen Brothers movie in which nobody understands what's going on and the presence of the camera is the only thing holding. It all together.

Everyone misunderstands everybody else. Even a movie that's not that great, like Burn After Reading, that's exactly what the movie is. And at the end, they're like, well, we learned never to do that again. Whatever it was, nobody knows what happened. In the last half of their career, also, nobody wins.

Everybody ends up kind of losing in a weird way. They've been making that since their first movie. you know blood simple nobody understands they both think the other one murdered somebody and another one really wins. Yeah but I think they're becoming increasingly nihilistic because now only the good people die like. It seems that way. Like it used to be like you know Frances McDormand was still being sassy and standing at the end, but now.

Like, everyone dies. Now we shoot her first thing. Even with True Grit, when. They remade, I think I've maybe mentioned this before, but, like, when they remade that, like, they add on the ending from the book, which isn't, like, and by the way, everybody made it out alive here, but 30 years later, they're all going to die. They're still going to die.

Yeah, that was my whole thing with, I really liked the remake of True Grit, but I was like, if you could have just ended it to where he was running towards the house with the light on, I would have been fine, but tacking on the ending to where she's at the grave, and you had to hear that atrocious song through the credits, I was like. That was the only thing we kept in mind. Yeah, the whole lady with the, you know, missing the... I didn't actually, until the point where there's the snake in the hole that does the bite, that, from then on, I was done with it. But actually, the original was bleaker there, because Glen Campbell just dies.

Yeah. Bye, Glen. Actually, I liked both the original and the remake for completely different reasons. Yeah, they're so different. The original, if you watch it now, the playing style is like musical theater.

It's so big and broad. And I remembered it pretty well, so when I heard they were doing a remake, I was just like, they're doing what? What? And yet, you know, after they did it, now it seems to make all kinds of sense. But, you know, I've typically put confidence in Coen Brothers and what they're doing, you know, even if they are making a remake.

Yeah. Which I know a lot of people completely dislike Lady Killers. I found Lady Killers fun. It's by the numbers Coen Brothers, and that's a good movie. Because actually, most of the problems that the remake has, I feel like the original has too, and I like both of them.

I own both of them, but it's like, People complain, well, when it came to the ending, the ending seemed a little rushed, a little sloppy, and also it lost its pacing. I feel like the original does, too. See, that's what I didn't understand about remaking that film. I felt like that was almost them trying to alienate every moviegoer. In the world.

We're going to take this really sort of hokey, simplistic film that only appeals. To old ladies, but then. Put so much insanely foul language in it that old ladies can't watch it. And then see who's left standing. This is a good strategy.

It could be that because when I was a graduate student in art, I had to hang the faculty show. And during the day, all the faculty walked through the gallery to the office and And every one of them would take me inside and say something like, well, I think my stuff, because it's so colorful, should be right here in the center of the entryway. And I'd go, oh, okay. And I just had to move stuff around all day to alienate everybody equally until they went home, and then I hung the show in 20 minutes. So maybe they were finally trying to just quell all the factions, alienate everybody, and get to a place.

Where they could sort of work in peace again. I think even just a regular standard Coen Brothers movie is a really good movie, but some of them I think they really stretch themselves on. I don't expect Tarantino to surprise me. After Pulp Fiction, I like him, but I don't expect. But the Coen Brothers, who knows what they're going to do.

You know, they have their stuff they're good at, and they do, and they're still going to do that, but who knows what else they might come up with. I think they're still very volatile creatively. Yeah, I like Lady Killers. I like pretty much all their movies all right. I even like a lot of people didn't like A Serious Man.

I liked A Serious Man. I felt it was up there with Barton Fink in the sense that it's very much, again, like you were saying, one of the main things that kind of ties together is the camera is there, and it's just up to you to figure out what works. But in comparing their movies to this movie, this movie, it drew me into a world. It drew me into a world, but it wasn't like a. Complete vision of a world in the end.

In the end, it felt fractured and And I can see that maybe they're trying to say something, and that's okay. Are we about to kill this? Yeah. But I thought going in that it was like a picture of a world. And it's fine for a director to have something they want to say that's lovely, you know, and they can say it all day.

But it wasn't. for me, like a coherent picture of a world in the way that the Coen brothers make that kind. Of internal sense. The Coen brothers, when you see people walking through with torches like an old brother, it's like, oh, yeah. I thought of that one, too, yeah. You know, I think one thing that's...

The two characters are so well-rounded. Their relationship is so well-rounded that that's the part that you. Attach yourself to and everything else just seems like pawns you know. Um doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Comparatively that's really what i ended up seeing the biggest thing at the end in credits was you know written by and then additional lines by the cast and i was like yeah these guys wrote that relationship in and that's what changed the.

Movie from Yeah, and going back to the whole creating the world thing, that I think is what did it is, you know, we've already talked about how these characters seem so real and, you know, the relationship between the hitman, the wife and the husband, all that seemed so real. And then basically we can identify, okay, this is real world. And it's like, we'll throw in a cult and just in this day and age, we would have trouble, you know, expecting something like that to exist. And when it goes to films like The Wicker Man or Rosemary's Baby, the focus of that movie was convincing you that, no, we are in the real world, but this can still exist, whereas this film, it didn't have that setup. So I could see where that would cause that off-putting feel that you get.

When suddenly it does that twist at the end. It just feels implausible. Yeah, and again, when Gale dies, I just expect there to be something more about that, because so much of the movie has been Especially since, you know, there was no threat anymore. It's not like he had people after him to where he needed to just leave the body. It's like, no, he's.

Safe at that point. It felt weird. It reminds me of in American Beauty, the scene that I totally don't believe when, what's her name? Thora Birch comes in with her pothead boyfriend and her. Dad's been shot.

She doesn't say a whole word in the scene. Just the hipster boyfriend just thinks it's really beautiful give me a minute while i think your dead dad is really beautiful and she's standing there in the background. What the fuck is this what are you trying to tell me what. Bugs me but i love american beauty but what always bugs me about that is that there's there's no exit wound Yeah, because clearly he gets shot in the back, then we see the blood splatter on the wall, but yet there's no exit wound anywhere. Well, he needs his close-up, you know.

Maybe it was that this came out of his mouth, and his mouth was. Open, and when he fell, his mouth was open. It was his left nostril. That's how it goes. Clean exit wound through the.

It was Banksy's exit through the nostril. Well, this one, I have to say, I had that same reaction, and I think And this is why I've been kind of like letting all the initial reactions go, because I think I had a lot of the same feelings. And then I went back and watched it a second time. Cause I had that same, like that first time I was like, where the hell did that ending come from? What the hell did I just see?

And then it was one of those that just didn't sit right. Like I, I, It took a day or two for me to just kind of go, okay, what do we even do? Again, that's why I was like, are we going to talk about this? Because I don't even know what I've seen at this point. It's still processing for a long time.

And then I went back and rewatched it, and it's kind of a different movie that second time. As much as I felt like it came out of nowhere, that ending, it doesn't necessarily feel that way the next time through. I kind of had that feeling the more I thought about it. This probably doesn't seem so far-fetched if you watch it again. I liked it enough that I want to see it again.

It really is one of those. It needs repeat viewings. And this is almost what it's made for. It almost is made to be discussed like he specifically left all these open-ended things or these loose threads that are specifically left there for us to sit around and go, no, wait, but what about? And it's almost like the movie geek dream movie that you just sit there and discuss what it meant or why it was like that.

And I don't know. I think it definitely... has that aspect to it, but it also feels a lot more like a through line that second time through. See, I always kind of expected the ending, though. Like I always expected, like I said, I sort of felt like having seen enough of these kind of movies that that's where it was going, that he needed to accept his fate and realize who he was and realize that there was going to be the moment at the end. I kept thinking, and I kept trying to remember what this movie was because I had just sort of vague recollections of seeing it as a childhood, but there was this movie with Shelly Winters and Abe Vigoda in it, and stop me if this starts to sound even reasonably familiar.

Or scary? Yeah, well, it was about this girl, and she was Satan's daughter, and her mother, Diane Ladd, had to promise Satan that on her 21st birthday she would marry a demon. And so the whole movie is about, like, Diane Ladd decides to, like, go back on the deal with Satan and obviously dies, and then The whole movie is her, she goes to live with Shelly Winters, and Shelly Winters is the one that's supposed to start grooming her to become the demon's wife, and then she rejects it and falls in love with another man. And obviously at the end, she thinks she's won and she marries the man. And oh, lo and behold, everybody at the service is a demon because he's the one she was always meant to marry.

Nice. And of course it's Shelley Winters. Of course it's Shelley Winters. And she's actually great in it. I finally found out what it's called.

It's called The Devil's Daughters, like a 1973 movie of the week. But for years I've been trying to figure out what this was. And I found out last night after I saw this because I kept. Thinking about it. But I was always thinking the movie was going to go there.

I just always thought it was going to go there. And then when it finally got there, it was just too big for me. like that's that's the only thing it just was too schmaltzy and silly and over the top and i wanted it to be more because the whole thing was this sort of neorealistic deal and then all of a sudden the ending is just. Like yeah it makes sense plot wise yeah like. It just didn't make sense tonally i felt anyway sorry i just. No i mean i think some of it it does seem like that was my thing i think it it does make sense tonally somewhat because it really does set up like if you go back and like the music in the beginning is so like foreboding and like those shots of the moon and like all this other stuff they work in that it kind of is a horror movie up front.

You just don't necessarily see it the first time through. But I will say like when we got to that end and I see the people trailing down there and with the torches, I was like, that part all seemed almost a little too familiar. Like I'll give you it. It is almost a little too Wicker Man, a little too like all these other crazy cult movies that, that they've made over the years that they maybe could have gone about it in a different way. But I don't know.

I think it still seems like it holds, it holds that line a little better that second time through. Yeah. I guess for me, that's why the whole time it felt like a young filmmaker. It was like, this guy has seen a lot of movies that he wants to reference and he's got a lot of things to say and he's just going to kind of throw it all together. And he's a craftsman.

I mean, I think future films are going to be great. He just needs to, I still think it's a really good movie. God, it sure does raise your expectations, doesn't it? I will say, I wasn't even my natural reaction to that ending. I still love the movie.

I think it's a great movie, but I've just seen that ending a number of times, but I'm the kind of person who pays attention to that kind of ending or goes looking for it to be done well, and I just haven't seen it yet. And the wife really needs to not laugh. Yeah. Yeah. That does make it confusing.

See, that's what I was saying, how I'd like to remake movies and just change the one thing that really bothers me. Actually, just do a remake, the whole thing, just electronically, CGI. Yeah, CGI. But either, again, either she laughs and she's in on it and doesn't have the home invasion part. See, I would shut out the home invasion part.

I think that makes more sense than taking out the laugh. I think the laughing makes sense without the home invasion part. Yes, exactly. I would be very comfortable with that. Because that's the whole thing.

Even if you had the home invasion and no laugh, I think she would have stopped. She wouldn't have been fighting him. I feel like she had to have been in on it, but the home invasion thing, it doesn't make sense unless. I don't know, unless it had. To be something where she had to carry out some sacrifices too to be part of it.

I don't know. That's the possibility. That's the whole problem with this cult. It's like, we keep recruiting people, but you have to kill off other people. To get in.

What if he and she leave and the kid's there home alone? And this cult comes. And he has to rig up. Instead of paint cans. Yeah, paint cans.

Micro machines and paint cans. Yeah, BB guns. That was the other thing I didn't like about that scene, though, was when the door opened and she shot the dude immediately. And I was like, how does she know that's not her husband? Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I was like, you may have just shot your husband in the head. Good going. Good job, show. Well. Yeah.

Because the laugh without the home invasion would justify it. Because I thought When the girlfriend, I forget her name, Fiona, is back at the house for we don't know why. Yeah. That could be like kind of the recruiting, you know, we've got her. I think she needs to have been in and out from day one.

She was born to turn him. Well, yeah, even that second time through, then watching for it, everything else makes sense. Like from that point at least, if not from the beginning, I mean maybe before– they even met Fiona, she was in on it, and she already knew her, but even without that, even if she'd never met her before, from the point she is back after she breaks up with Gal or Gale or whatever, I think everything from that point makes sense that she's working with the wife, she's bringing the wife in on it, the wife then starts sort of doing what she can to steer him down that road, and you see, like, there's points when, like, even when the guy comes out after they fight, and he's just like, I can't, I can't do this anymore.

I've got to go. And she's the one trying to keep him– no, no, we still need to– it's a quick scene, but she's the one sort of talking him back into finishing the job. In that case, it's kind of like Rosemary's Baby in the sense that the husband guy is constantly trying to encourage Rosemary. It's like, no, no, no, keep drinking these fluids that the cast of Vets bring over. Keep going to see.

But this is so good and Rosemary's Baby is so horrible. I like Rosemary. Rosemary's Baby I actually view less as a horror film and more as just a dark comedy. It's like what it it's like an extended joke that it feels to me like a four hour joke. But I mean out of that trilogy though I think I like The Tenant the best out of that.

I mean Rosemary's Baby. Is the most well known but The Tenant I think is the most mature of the three or at least the most twisted. I mean And I like Repulsion, too, but The. Tenet, I think, is my favorite. I think it's referred to as the Apartment Trilogy.

That's the name that's sort of given to it. Well, that's the thing that struck me in Rosemary's Baby. I'm so bored. I'm just looking at the decor for the 70s. Like, look at that pillow.

How could they not know that was a monstrosity? Why was that okay? Yeah, how did people think that was all right to have this hideous, ugly... And then they get into the kitchen, and it's like, the kitchen is kind of okay. Maybe because it's utilitarian, they don't have all the 70s gung.

And there's something about that. And then, you know, you watch, what was the old movie? It's Maurice Evans' fault. He's the interior decorator in that. Oh, is it?

Yeah. Yeah. You know some sort of demons involved as soon as you see the big macrame pillow thing. And they're just sitting there next to it. Like they might as well have entrails laying out on their floor, and they're just sitting there talking.

Well, if we're tying in interior design to this one, I mean, we get to the... the pornographer's house, the librarian, if you. Want to call him. Did you see in the background of there, there's creepy clown paintings on his wall? No wonder he's into pornography with kids or whatever horrible things on there. He needs to die for those clowns on the wall.

I like that they don't even explain what... It is the big song. It's just that horrible. Well, and the question becomes, too, was he recruited because that's what he was into, or would he have become part of the cult and that's what he had to get into so that way he'd be sacrificed? And again, it has that ambiguity, too, that I like.

I don't think he was recruited. Think he was. Born into it. But back to the wife, she's also the one that sends him to the doctor. And the doctor's definitely in on it.

And she specifically told him he had to go. And then she's also the one that says, I'm going to the cottage. and the whole finale is at the cottage so i was just like everything with the exception of that home invasion scene totally points to her from at least the midpoint in the movie being in on it if not just to throw you off so maybe the only i was the only other thing i was thinking is maybe they sort of double crossed her like maybe she wasn't supposed to be sacrificed and then during the home invasion they screw her over and make her the final victim. Or maybe it was she thought that it was just going to be him but she didn't know it was going to be her son. Involved either of those changes it a little bit.

So that sort of makes sense and that might be a case to where it being so ambiguous it makes it confusing. Or it's like we're writing a movie. Yeah, we're making it better for them. But it invites that. It leaves all these windows in it for you to go, well, wait, maybe it's this.

And again, I think that's a good sign. I think most of that isn't accidental. I think everything is so well placed in this movie that he kind of leaves those for you to fill in. Which it leaves us with the question that obviously. Guy is the main character?

No, Guy. Jay. Jay, Jay. I'm mixing Gayle and Jay. That Jay would have at that point, and that is, how involved was my wife?

Yeah. So, I mean, we're left with the same question. It's like, how involved was she in all of this, after. All of it? Well, yeah, I don't know.

Somehow it's not palatable. To me as ambiguity. Like the way at the end of Blue Velvet, when her dad comes in. And looks around like, Okay, everybody's dead. I guess I can just be.

You wonder, like, how involved was he in that underworld? And that's a nice ambiguity because it's clear what, you know, what the ambiguity is. Here, the ambiguity is, like, kind of amorphous. It could be all kinds of different directions where it invites you to, like, mad-live your own version of the movie. But it does it so well.

It does do it very well. When you think about it, like, that's... That's like one of the only times you really see the wife on her own, too. Because the majority of the film, Jay is in it. Yeah.

Since it is his story. Almost like it's following his point of view. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, again, that is the moment where I cheated because I just couldn't get the last thing out of my head and I was like, I just gotta know what's going on here.

And so apparently she wasn't ever supposed to be. In on it. And so that scene, it almost makes it feel like, well, it's all of a sudden they just decided to give her agency. They're like, we haven't let her do much and let's give her a gun or let's let her show off. If that's what the filmmaker says, that really doesn't make much sense because she's a huge red herring.

Yeah. If that's the case. But I heard even she said that. They follow her on Twitter and people were asking that and she says, according to her she wasn't in on it like her character wasn't in on it which again makes no sense to me but. Yeah so i think that's the only really false step aside from yeah.

It's just what admitting that she wasn't in on it that's the false step. Can we just laugh like i felt like i mean honestly i do think it might have been a more interesting movie if she had been in on it all the time but i don't think there's any indication. Kind of how i read it i don't know that's that's still sort of how i process it you know. Can we just say the filmmaker's wrong yeah i. Think you can do all the time i think you can i often see things and i in movies and i'm just like no that's wrong and sometimes i'm not even sure why it is it's just somebody does something it's like i don't believe that i just i don't i mean if i'm supposed to invest in the movie in some way i invest in it the way i do and.

If i think it's wrong yeah. But then sometimes i don't know like first time i saw uh unbearable lightness of being i just i i It didn't work. And I saw it again later, and it's like, oh. I've been meaning to read that book for years now, literally. I actually think when it was released, the opening was different, and I later saw a different edit of it, because I just remembered some things different. but it could also be that I'm insane.

I think your take on that might help me, Alan, might help me sleep better and not think about it so much. Because, yeah, you can be wrong. I mean, you kind of, in thinking that way, would want the filmmaker to then listen to the podcast and go, shit, that's what I should have done. Why did I do that? Maybe I should have rewritten that one more time.

Ultimately, I wouldn't expect the actress to be able to tell me what the story adds up to. Yeah, that's not her job either, on her Twitter page or whatever. This is the way it was meant to be. A lot of directors are going to just give her whatever... she thinks is supposed to happen so that they can get that out of her. To make it look better.

She may not have any clue. It's just the way that every actor has to play themselves as the hero. The bad guy doesn't think of themselves as the bad guy. But she thought she left ironically. With Maybe she has no idea why she was laughing.

Or maybe, ironically, she doesn't know. What irony is. Isn't it ironic? She has no idea what irony is. It's ironic that none of that's irony.

Originally, Alanis Morissette was going to play that part. She had a scheduling conflict. A visa problem. Yeah, it was written for her. No, she plays God in everything.

She's the God running all of this. So, do we want to go into the theories that other people have come up with? Let's beat this dead horse. Again, normally I don't even bring in other people's stuff, but trying to come up with at least other theories and other ideas. This is William Mager, I think, M-A-G-E-R, so if you want to look up his whole deal, but The first part is.

What is his deal? No, it's what is this movie's deal? He basically.... Is it going to upset him that you're mispronouncing his name? If so, he should spell it easier to say.

Are these people that you know, or do you look stuff up? This is probably from Britain, because again, at the time, I think it was when it just came out. It's British. We're just throwing theories out there. So...

Just claiming that it's not me. I don't want to pretend like I'm stealing this idea when it's very well put together by somebody else. So in the, yeah, what the hell happened in this movie, it kind of goes through the whole plot. But basically, his take on it is, unbeknownst to them, the assassins are actually part of a ceremony to turn Jay into the new Antichrist. The whole film is mentioned by the cult leader as a reconstruction.

Jay is the subject of the reconstruction. They see the pure evil that's inside him, and this is different than what we thought, too. After Fiona sees his behavior at the dinner party, he is officially marked by her, and she ritually sacrifices the rabbit in the garden, which Jay later eats for breakfast, unwittingly accepting the sacrifice and the first stage of his reconstruction. She predicted... that if. I kill a rabbit in his jar, he's going to take it into the kitchen and eat it.

This guy likes to show off. If I leave a rabbit. He's being recruited. I don't buy that because I don't think. I think Fiona.

Brought herself into Gal Gale's life purposefully, like they met at the gym or whatever, and then she immediately dumped him as soon as she met. I mean, either she was. Did she really leave a Dear John note on his dick? That might have been some other colorful language. I was worried.

Like with a Sharpie marker? Or did he say taped? Yeah, I think he said taped. Yeah. Oh, about the rap thing.

Was anybody else. Sorry. But was anybody else impressed that he tasted the blood and could tell it was a rabbit blood? Yeah. I thought he was just being a smartass.

Oh, that's possible. I thought he could tell it was a rabbit and he did that. Yeah, because he was being gross. Like you can put your ear to the ground and. So Ford Fairlane.

They do that really well, just the two of them. When they're not at each other's throats fighting, there are those little moments where they do seem like a couple. Even when they're fighting. Yeah, they definitely seem like they fight. My favorite thing in the dinner was when she's like, At least I don't embarrass you in front of everybody else like you do.

Meanwhile, she's sniping him with little passive emotions. Yeah, it's all over the place. It was beautiful. It was fucking beautiful. They're fighting about it.

That was much more brutal than the violence. Yeah. Especially what they were doing to the kid. Yeah, definitely. That's the real horror.

Poor kid. But yeah, even when they're... there are these grand, you know, life and death situations going on in their life, but when they're fighting, they're fighting about, you took all the meat off the plate, you're serving gravy in this. It's like, those are real fights. I love that line, too. It's like a, whatever it's like, chemistry.

It's like a fucking chemistry sentence. Again, I was like, ooh, I was like, that's a real couple right there. They know what they're doing. But that did, when she brought that out the first time, I even said, That's tacky. When we got into it, I was.

Like, don't you have a gravy boat? I'm going to yell at that bitch. God, all that stuff was so good. Like the little chef hats. It's got to be so hard to build a scene like that.

Tell me the little chef hats wasn't improvised. You know that was one of the added lines. Oh, let's see. Continuing on with this one, it acknowledges that the The way his victims smile and thank him when they're killing him, they know who he really is. To be killed by him as a member of the cult is an honor.

The three victims, the priest, the librarian, and the MP are obvious figures of authority, each with a stereotypical dark side. Then it gets to the end. Jay is forced to fight the final victim on the kill list, the hunchback. As he stats the hunchback, you know, the... The disguise comes up.

I was just thinking about the stereotypical dark side of librarians. Like, this is a really familiar show. Yeah, wait. Actually, did they ever really go into. I don't think of a librarian as an authority figure.

They are if you're in the library. Well, when it came to the priest, though, I mean, they made fun of. They're always shushing him. They joked about how he was probably, like, screwing kids. Yeah.

Was that ever. Established, though? But you get to the porn angle, and again, I've even read things saying that everybody assumes it's kiddie porn. So there's a tie-in with all of this that it's some sort of weird... I don't know.

It's so smacks of satanic ritual abuse, and that's such bullshit. I just don't know where. To go with that whole side of it. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like it's missing...

It's in the wrong decade for that story, for that thing to be scary. It has to be like in the 70s, late 60s, early 70s. It strikes me as one of those movies. But there's that weird resurgence. The House of the Devil is kind of tapping into that same thing.

Because that sort of reminded me of that to an extent, too. Well, actually, right after. The end of the Cold War, there was a rash of this cultural mania. People started reporting all this satanic ritual abuse already. There was even a.

Sheriff who admitted to it, but later, through his testimony and his recovered memories, people figured out he would have to have fucking been in two places at once. He's confessing to something that. Couldn't have happened. And it's just a. There's never, to my knowledge, been a single corroborated case of satanic ritual abuse.

There's just been a lot of recovered memory stuff. And it's kind of a dementia that came up after the end of the Cold War. I don't know. The movie kind of leans that way, but I don't know. I was enjoying so much the archetypes of evil.

The librarian. The hunchback. The evil hunchback. That hunchback is evil. I don't know his name, but his face rings a bell.

Oh my god. So yeah, he kills the hunchback, as it were, in the same way that we mentioned that he did earlier with the wife and son in the garden. And then the wrap-up on this one is killing your own wife and son is the ultimate sacrifice and the biggest honor. Jay has done it and will now become their new leader. So they actually are crowning him.

According to this version, he's the new leader. So again, leading to that, it's a much bigger beginning that we end on. Now, I don't know what he's going to do, because he seems clueless as to what's going on. So, that's that version, which again is a little more by the numbers. And does he even accept that honor, considering he was getting to the point where he was very self-conscious about a lot of the killings?

Yeah. But then he's lost everything. Isn't that part of military training, too? They cut you down so you don't have anything, and all you have is this authority that you follow. And then you're Richard Gere and an officer and a gentleman going.

I've got no place else to go. By the time you're Richard Gere, you know you've lost it all. So this is either a rewriting of either. Of those movies. It's a remake of Private Benjamin.

He's a good man and thorough. So do we want the other even more deeper theorized version? Okay, it also goes on, and this is the very could be. The film could be a commentary on society today and on the government's foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan. Gail and Jay are soldiers who kill on the orders of a higher power in order to obtain or maintain their collection of empty consumer materials.

We didn't get into the consumerism. They live in the suburbs. Well, empty consumer materials. Possibly. The hot tub, which is never used and never works, is a symbol of that, and Jay's inability to buy basic items like toilet paper while worrying about the hot tub.

War dehumanizes people, but so does consumerism. Jay is prepared to kill strangers in order to keep himself, his wife, and his child in the lifestyle in which they've become accustomed. I thought that was interesting. That's definitely there. You can't say that's not in the movie.

I don't know. That seems like a stretch. It's stretching it, but the The seeds are there. They do make a point of discussing recessions and, like, comparing it to the 80s and now, don't they? Yeah, the recessions are much more glamorous in the 80s.

They're like that line, too. The jacuzzi was for medical purposes. It was for his back, he said. Which, she disputed that, but she was just being a bitch, I think. Yeah.

And then as far as the.... I dispute your saying that the wife is a bitch. Are we going to vote on this? Did he have a bad back? How many times...

How many for she's just being a bitch? How many thinks he just doesn't want. To work anymore? We can all kind of get on board with that. She was pushing him to work because he hadn't worked for eight months and they need to... get an income so it's not necessarily that they need more things they need an income so they can.

Try not buying 10 bottles of wine. Yes I know and that's his own fault you know but oh. The garage that garage is so brilliant the garage beer stacked up in oh. Yeah automatic weapon in the case i like all the unused exercise that was my favorite. Yeah garage in england is the last place on earth where you can put an ab lounge out of the way.

Oh lord so i don't know i think it's a lot of things. I think it's all of these things and maybe more, maybe less. It's all up to you, kind of. I don't know that we've finalized it for Randy, but we've certainly thrown a lot of theories out there. I stuck by my record.

A lot of spoilers. We warned you up front on the spoilers, so you should have already watched it. It's your own fault if you're still listening. Yeah, I wonder what Marlena's thinking of all this. I've been playing Angry Birds for like.

The last half an hour, so I don't know. Because somebody's a slacker and didn't watch the movie. Hey, I tried. So, I don't know. Do we have anything else to wrap this up?

You're going to regret tuning us out when you get home. There's a dead. Rabbit on your front porch. You're not going to know what to do. She almost leans over and tastes it.

It's like, it's definitely rabbit. She'll lean over and taste it. Is this a cat? That was another one. I think it's a badger.

There's a dead duck right there. Actually, it's a cat with a white stripe painted down its back. You've got a dead duck in front of your house. It's already begun, and you've been turning tuna salad. You better turn over your mirror in your bathroom.

What do I fry it with? Garlic? I don't know. Garlic and onion. I love that scene.

What a great movie in so many ways. Excruciating disappointment. I will not recommend it to that many people. Really? Yeah, because it's going to take a certain... person to watch them.

I mean, number one, it's a love it or hate it movie anyway. There's a lot of people who just wouldn't sit through it the way that it is just the way that it's written and performed is not going to sit well with a. Lot of people I don't think a lot of folks will get past just the initial violence like the whole torture and the librarian scene I can see I don't even think. Before that I think there's a lot of people that just watching them argue the first 20 minutes of the movie like there's two arguments before you even get to the plot as. It were so yeah there's a lot of people that would probably tune out right there just based on all they do is yell at each other which I agree Those are some brutal fights.

After seeing it, I immediately posted the trailer on Facebook and said, everybody needs. To see this. Because lots of people won't like it, but they're wrong. Not that it's wrong to dislike it. It's not even that, but it's just a good film for sparking the thought about what.

You just saw. I think it's a love it and hate it movie. There's a lot that's so good in it, no matter what. Else we say. It made me really want to see his first movie, just because I think he's a really good director.

It made me want to watch the actors, too. The guy who plays Gal is in his first movie, Down Terrace. So there's that. And I know I've seen him in something else. I was thinking I'd seen him in a Shakespeare thing.

But no, I think he was in that British comedy about the apartment. Peep Shop. I think, was it Spaced? Oh, yeah. I think he is in that.

I think he's in that. I knew I'd seen his face before. It was so distinct. He would be superb. Was he Brian?

I forget his name. I don't remember anybody's name. Was the girl Daisy? I think so, yeah. Daisy?

My Michelle, I sat there the whole time going, why does she look so damn familiar? She's one of the. Girls from The Descent. I really love The Descent. Did you like the second one?

Not really. They were trying to do. The first was fine enough as it was. Yeah, I was not so thrilled with the second, but the first one. The first one's pretty fantastic.

And kind of I've got that same feeling, like when you get to those tunnel scenes, those are really creepy. I will give them credit for the people running at them is a creepy scene, and the tunnel scenes are just like really creepy. Especially with them just having the headlights, and that's all you can see. And you just hear the shuffling, and they just appear out of the darkness and stab. and, yeah, it's creepy. So that was a lot of really dark and confined.

Middle-aged naked women running at you. Yeah, you don't want to see that. Barbed wire. No, no, that's no good. I kept thinking about those extras.

Like, how do you convince somebody to do that? Did you notice that a lot of them were couples? Mm-hmm. In the credits? Yeah.

They looked like they had married couple names or could have been brother-sister pairs. But it reminded me of that story about Dave Eggers when he worked for this magazine, Mike Magazine. They tried to do this feature that was unlike all the other magazines. They were going to show normal people naked. And the only people they could get to do it was the staff.

And so they did all these photos, and not everybody got totally naked, but they took the photos, and then they get the photos back. Because this is what the media should be doing, showing normal people, right? They get the photos back, and it's like, in theory, yeah, but not these people. These people are freaks. Nobody wants to see regular people.

You know, and it was them. We play nice, and we say we do, but nobody really. Wants to see regular people. I find it kind of satisfying, just because there are regular people. You're like, damn, I look good.

That's possibly true. But actually, I remember when I was a kid, growing up in a small town in Kentucky before the digital revolution, the only place you could see naked pictures of normal women were in books about witchcraft. That was the only source. Books about witchcraft. It all comes back around.

Witches with scars are now what. Witches with strange scars are now what Fred likes. Oh, no, that was a hippie girl. Well, I know, but I'm putting the two together. Witches and scars.

The ultimate for you as a young boy. So you're regretting that witches with scars haven't moved in next door instead of the hipsters. I guess. I don't know. I'm okay with the hippies.

The hipsters, though, they're changing the dynamics. I don't know. I liked having them a little ways over in the Highlands. You know, they're there. You see them at the coffee shops.

But now they're getting too close. And I told you I did that search and replace. I did my own version of Huckleberry Finn where I replaced the N-word with hipster. Hipster Jim. Hipster Jim.

Well, but the description of this movie. Reminded me I have another book that's coming out soon. It's... it's uh heart of darkness but i'm replacing the words heart of darkness with box of chocolates. Oh my god i'm glad i'm illiterate now i have to. Read this yeah you mentioned i mean it could almost turn into your own individual horror film because you just come home one day and everyone in your house you know they've got you know the brimmed glasses and uh-huh and um They're listening to My Morning Jacket.

They're watching The Life Aquatic. And they're like, here, take these pods. Yeah. Yeah, it's scary. I think hipsters are funny.

At best. Well, there are different kinds of hipsters. You have the wannabe hipsters who are just annoying as fuck. And then you have the actual hipsters. I work with this girl.

It's just how she is. She's very sweet, and that's okay. Yeah. It's the wannabe hipsters like this other girl. Unfortunately, there are tendencies that I think all of us probably have that would fall into the hipster thing.

It's just they have assumed what we've already done. And that doesn't then make what we do lame. It just, they've just taken on that. My brother-in-law, there's a band that he liked, and he said, God, they were so, I mean, almost like in the hipster Bible, he said they were so cool until they all started liking them. And he doesn't like them anymore.

I'm like, no, if you love the music, just love the music. Don't let what other people tag as cool affect how you. See, aren't we doing that right now? We're talking about the movies before they're cool. Right.

Not too many people have seen Kill List. British people have. Well, I just think making fun of hipsters is just an amusing, harmless comic foil, really. And they're always going to be. Yeah, I always thought of the hipster games.

It actually changed my perception. Oh. Do you know about. I mean, it's like the. The juggalos of today.

I mean, to me, they're asking for it, and I am willing to deliver. Do you know about the website LookAtThatFuckingHipster.com? No, I haven't seen that. It's just pictures of hipsters that people have taken that are just ridiculous. It's like PeopleOfWalmart.com.

I need to get my camera out there. I do sort of play that game, though. I ought to start taking pictures because I'll be driving around with my kids and just go, look at that guy. I have a friend on Facebook who does that, but she is like an extreme hipster. It's just like.

People who make fun of hipsters are hipsters. Hipsters aren't necessarily aware. It's just everybody else is a poser. It's really easy to play. That's what I'm saying.

The actual hipsters don't realize they're hipsters. The wannabe hipsters try to be. They're all trying too hard. That's the problem. If you know that you're a hipster, it nullifies the fact that you're a hipster.

You can't know that you're a hipster. So in this movie he becomes king of the hipster? I was already writing that movie in my head right now. A horror film about hipsters. Becoming a hipster and you don't know it and then you're shocked with the, oh God, I'm not only a hipster, I'm king of the hipsters.

Oh, that reminds me for some reason of. The great scene in The Young Ones when the anarchist guy goes, Oh. My god, I've killed an hippie. That's one of the great lines. Suddenly he realizes that he's bought a VCR and VHS collection.

No! God, I love that show. Oh lord. I just killed someone for Polaroid film. Shouldn't have stopped making it.

Okay, we should round this thing up. We are out of control. So, yeah, I think if nothing else, even if you've seen it the one time that we told you to before you're listening to this, it becomes a different movie that second time. I think it's worth at least a repeat viewing, if not multiple, somewhere down the line just to decide what you think about it. Not even that you think it's that great, just that I think it adds a different perspective at least one more time through.

That's what I think. Cool. All right, anything else you want to pass along before we get the. Hell out of here? Marlena?

No, I'm good. I'm firing birds. Don't worry about her. No, I'm actually playing a game similar to Boggle. You look very intent.

Yeah, I am. Wow. Oh, Lord. All right. Otherwise, that about does it.

We will return next week. Same geek time, same geek feed. Thanks for listening. I'm dropping down to the countryside Something caught my attention We're talking about the people that I like I never gave you a mention. I'm writing down a list that I've defined.

Nothing can stop my action. There ain't no place for you to hide. No one around for protection. To escape all this madness. Ha!

To do or cover the truth. I need to dwell on my sadness. Ha! It's like my only escape. And what it sounded so clearly Slowly went out of state Referring.

To the list I had to write. I had to stop the projection No longer looking for a place to hide I learned to love the imperfection To. Escape all this. Madness I need to uncover. The truth.

I need to dwell on my sadness. Bye. Bye. I'm right here, misfearing My list of people that I have to kill Go down and I'm right here Ignore what I'm saying and stay if you will I'm right here, misfearing My list of people that I have to kill Go down and You know what I'm saying? No more guitar, mate.

Not in restaurants. There's a time and a place. And your time and a place is in a very isolated location where no one's likely to be for about a fucking hundred years. Okay? Because Jimmy Hendrix, you ain't.

This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard!