188: Bronson Cabaret

Hi, this is Lance Henderson and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. Listen if you dare. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. It's showtime, folks.

Enjoy the show. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power. What's up? Welcome to Movie Meltdown. I am Brian.

I'm Ben. I'm Alan. I'm Fred. And we're back for another session of the Caffeinated Movie Geek. Cappuccino, my butt.

I still drink coffee. The last fucking thing you need is another cup of coffee. It's time for the Caffeinated Movie Geek. We are coming to you live via digital recording from Nancy's Bagel Grounds. We're hanging out, talking movies.

We're going to starve soon, so we should probably go ahead and get to our activities here. And once again, we have a special guest... Scooter Downey and Rose Sienna. Although at this point, you know, you guys are on like four episodes, so you're just kind of, once again, we seem to keep adopting people on this show, or I sometimes refer to us as a cult. So you may have been abducted and or put into the cult now.

We're the initiates. Yeah, yeah. So at this point, yeah, you're pretty much a regular on the show. Or a semi-regular. We're the non-special guests.

You're the. Right. That's not a very fun way of putting it. You've just lost the special. You've been on too much.

You're not special anymore. I'm thinking, no. Well, let me leave, Brian, if you're sorry. I said that about two times ago. I was like, you just need to be on every episode to counterbalance the horribleness that we are.

And then there's Rose. You say your Rose things and it kind of makes the horrible things that come out of my mouth a little more tolerable. So. Well, do you want to trade off? Did you want to steal it this time, Scooter?

Steal the coffee of the week option here? Or did she do such a good job? It's up to you. I didn't want to give it all to her. Yes, today we are eating the.

What blend of coffee are we eating? Yeah, I'm going to pass it off to Rose after that faux pas. I was going to say Tillamook, but that's not it. Tillamook is something else. Company.

Yeah, I think it's Thunder. How can I forget? There's Thunder outside. Thundermuck. Thundermuck, I think, is an Inuit cookie company.

Eskimo cookies. They're mostly snow, but they're. Just glad to have anything really. Thundermuck. That sounds like something that was just collected in a creek somewhere.

And you're happy to drink it. I'm very happy to drink it. Less successful events down on the waterfront. For those who cannot afford Starbucks, we have Thundermuck. My coffee's like illegal.

We're better than that. We're better than Starbucks. Unless they want to sponsor us, and then we'll change our status. But other than that, we're better than Starbucks. All right, so I'll do one quick one-off geek activity because it sort of ties in.

This past week... Are you okay? I'm not. It was going to be like another two hours. No, this?

That's why I'm doing it. I didn't turn it over to anybody else because it'll run rampant through the city. He's pointing at me. Anyone else? So this past week I've watched, and I think for the first time I'd always remembered it, and assumed I watched it on cable, but I don't think so.

I watched Thief, which everybody said, like, last year, when everybody was making such a big deal over Drive, they were like, yeah, this is his Thief. Go back, and everybody kept saying it's like his homage to 80s movies, and his, like, that weird, like, visual style in the music, and then I went and watched Thief. Yep, there's no doubt about it. If you watched Thief, and then you watch Drive. He had to have been sitting around watching that on cable as a kid going, this movie's awesome!

Because it is so in that vein. Also with the Ryan O'Neill movie where it's like the opening sequence is almost the same. Like where he's driving two guys around in LA for a heist. But yeah, definitely Thief. A lot of Thief emulation.

And it's, I mean, that's that early Michael Mann, so it's definitely like lots of neon and wet streets, which you sort of get. But then it does go, I mean, it's one of those laughs like James Caan in that kind of a lead role. Because it was right after that, in like the 90s, he kind of got shoved back to supporting role. And you would always bring him in as like, he's a mob boss. Or, you know, he always kind of got the secondary role to whatever new lead came in.

So this was kind of that last era of, just giving him a movie and just, here, carry this. But he's great in Honeymoon in Vegas. See, it was right around that time. That's when they started going, no, we're just going to bring him in, and he's going to be the James Caan guy. He became sort of his own caricature at that point.

But this is different, though. I mean, I guess if you're used to him more in, like, Godfather, it's that level of intensity. Like, he's just... he's a badass, and he just, like, he doesn't mess around, and he does whatever the hell he wants in life, and by the end, it's pretty interesting the way that he deals with his problems. So, yeah, it's definitely worth watching if you haven't seen it. It's pretty interesting, and mostly James Caan.

I mean, Michael Mann does a good job directing-wise, but James Caan, he's a badass in. The movie, so. Yeah, the first James Caan movie I ever saw, since I, I guess, relatively. younger was was actually him in elf. That's another one of those see it's like he's he's a supporting character he's kind of playing that same guy you know it's like. He deserves a better place in my mind so i'm kind.

Of yeah yeah thief good try thief that's that's a better way to go so speaking of badasses that do whatever the hell they want yeah we'll take a break and we'll get back to this week's movie which that's all you get in this movie. So When you're on a picnic, hot dogs are mighty good this way. But when you're here at the theater, hot dogs are at their best. We start with the choicest franks. Cook them until they're just right.

Make available your favorite seasonings and leave the rest to you. Everyone likes our hot dogs. Why not get one for everyone right now? Last year, Billy Jack became one of the most popular pictures of our time. Walking Tall was applauded by audiences across the nation.

Now, Charles Bronson. Is Mr. Majestic in a movie that touches the hero in all of us. Vincent Majestic was an ordinary man. He wanted to work his farm, live his life, mind his business.

Hey, didn't somebody say something about a cold. Beer after work? But they wouldn't let him. Hey, I don't think I know you. Come over from La Junta with some top hand pickers.

I hire who I want. Yeah, well, you see, you want me. Only it ain't sunk into that thick brain of yours yet. They frightened his workers. Tell them they don't work here anymore.

You got two minutes to get the hell in your cars. And get out of here. They tortured his friends. They do this to me. They threw him in jail.

You understand your rights under the law? I understand I should keep my mouth shut. They destroyed his crops. They forced him to become what he never meant to be, a hero. Why are they calling Mr.

Majestic the one movie you must see this year? Ask anyone who's seen it. Anyone. Charles Bronson is Mr. Majestic in a movie that touches the hero in all of us.

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Tweaked Audio. Sounds better. It's time for Sofa Theater. My name's Charles Brunson. And all my life I've wanted to be famous.

I knew I was made for better things. I had a call and I just didn't know what I was. What I'm saying. Can't fucking act. Kind of running out of choices, really.

Aren't we? Please release me. Let me go. For I don't love you. Anymore To waste our lives would be a sin.

Release me. And let me. Love again. Welcome back to Movie Meltdown Sofa Theater. This week's Sofa Theater feature is Bronson.

The year is 2008. Director Nicholas Winning Refn. The plot, according to IMDb, A man who was sentenced to seven years in prison for robbing a post office ends up spending 30 years in solitary confinement. During this time, his own personality is supplanted by his alter ego, Charles Bronson. With that spoiler alert.

Charles, that was hilarious. IMDB. Yeah, like every IMDB. This is like the best I've ever heard. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, spoiler alert, go watch Bronson, because we're going to ruin the hell out of it. All right, where would you guys like to begin with Bronson? Well, that plot synopsis.... Is it supplanted in your mind now?

That makes the theme seem like he was schizophrenic or something. That's arguable. The movie does have a little bit of that quality. He has this weird impresario, like... Yeah, what is he doing?

What is that about? This, like, monologue talking to this. It's kind of like he's a cabaret guy. Yeah. Narrating his own life as a stage show.

It's funny because I didn't expect any of that. Like, I knew of this movie for such a long time and heard people talk about it even before anybody knew who Tom Hardy was. But I still... And again, you're just going by, like, that cover, you know, the one sheet is just that it looks like a boxing movie, you know? It just looks like it's another one of those kind of movies. you know, we just had fighter and all these other ones.

It looks like it's just another one of those. And then you get in and granted, I guess if you know the director, he's, it's like, it wants to be this like hardcore, you know, violent movie, but at the same time, he's just way too arty for that. So it's like, and in a way I liked it. Like that's kind of what makes the movie for me is that other aspect of it, where it becomes this, this show. And it's like, it really is sort of focusing on that storytelling aspect of Because the stuff that's going on in the real life is so horrible that if it was just that, I don't know, it would be such a downer of a movie.

I really like what he does when he throws him on stage and breaks the fourth wall and he starts telling you this story and he's putting on a show for this audience that's literally sitting there. I think all that's kind of interesting and I think it would suffer if it didn't. Have all that. I think that sort of, though, ties into, like, the beginning of the film. What he says right at the beginning is, I always wanted to be famous.

Mm-hmm. I couldn't sing a note, and I was a horrible actor. So there weren't many options left for me. And when that, like, line hit me, I was like, ooh, we're going down a dark path. Yeah.

You know, like, I understood that. Like, if someone really wants to be famous, has no talent. Mm-hmm. How can they become famous? And so I think he was really playing that portion up with the stage and this pretend audience.

That he had. It kind of felt like a half-finished idea to me because I felt like that was the key that they were trying to use as the glue for the narrative. But it didn't really have a payoff. Like the payoff is supposed to be at the end, I guess, where he finds his art, you know. Which seems, yeah, that doesn't seem like it happens enough.

I enjoyed the stylistic elements where, you know, there is that breaking of the fourth wall and he's talking to the camera. And of course, Tom Hardy's performance is really, really, really great. But I just was kind of asking, like, what's the point of this? Like, why are we even caring about this guy? Like, why do we want to follow his story?

Why do we even care as a subject? And if we do, why don't we just look up the real guy? Right, exactly. I always have that trouble with anything that's based on a real, not always, but sometimes. And I felt the same way.

It's very stylish, it was very interesting, but it felt sort of incomplete, like. There's a part where. One of the cops at the prison says, you know, like, you need to stop just acting nihilistic and godless. And I felt like that was kind of like the way the movie felt. There was no point, really.

It was just. Following this guy. I felt like the movie was a little too, like, I wouldn't. It almost, I've seen it, like, the more I see it, I'm convinced it's pretty much a comedy. Like, there's no, like, even the dramatic aspects.

Are just so, he just, I mean, you can't take him, even. The jerkish strongman mustache, you know, like, it's all just very comic, and it's violent, and it's about this guy who's in prison, like, his whole life, and it's just all, his whole life is violence, but it's just, it's just filmed through such, like, kind of a, kind of like, I don't know, I don't know. It's not like it doesn't feel like a downer movie, but he definitely does, like the guard said, live that nihilistic lifestyle. But he seems very happy and content. That's kind of the weird part.

He's not like an angry... Well, he's angry, of course. He's not angry. He's very like. Just a little bit.

He's like a child almost. The way a child gets angry. He's totally content with his life. He's not bummed. It's like he belongs in prison.

It's his home, so... And, I don't know, it's just. Kind of interesting to see how, you know, theatrical of this kind of figure, who you think would just be this awful, violent, just depressing person to be around, how, like, kind of fun it is to be around him. It's kind of made through this kind of comic lens. I don't know.

Like you said, the art aspect is definitely what lifts the movie out of just kind of being a dull kind of. I think that's really what does it. If you just look at... I mean, the other scenes are well put together, but I think it's that aspect where he does the whole theatrical thing, but also just the way that he puts it together, like the way that he intercuts all these different things. So even in that first couple of scenes, you've got all these shots of him from segments further in the movie that he just keeps cutting to him, kind of deadpan staring at the camera.

Yeah. And it's from segments that actually you're not, like one of them you're not going to see for like an hour, 20 minutes in before you actually get to him in that place wearing that outfit. Like he cut in all this stuff from the future out of his life almost, but it just keeps cutting to almost like just this different versions of the man, even though, I don't know, he seems like he's not a varied character, but we keep getting all these different shots of him and all these, I think it's that aspect. It's almost the visual style of, that makes it kind of more impressive than just the story that's told. For me, because I've seen it a couple times now, and I watched the trailer before seeing it, so I knew I was getting into something kind of weird.

So I never viewed it as a biopic because it's very comedic. It's funny. I was just laughing my ass off. But it's almost kind of a fantasy because of the weird audience thing. Everything's very exaggerated.

There's like a. Kind of a weird homosexual element to it, like in kind of a weird way. Like all the characters were just kind of. Pumping him along. And then there's like that room with the women, and men were dressed as women, which felt kind.

Of Fellini for a second. It did have the kind of Fellini vibes. But that was probably my favorite line in the entire movie, is when his uncle comes in and says, Ladies and gentlemen in ladies' attire, allow me to present my favorite nephew. I was just like, that's awesome. Everything is so theatrical and fantastic.

And then you read about his life afterwards about the actual person and it's very different there was a lot that got left out I mean obviously they're cutting it down to an hour and a half and so if you don't view it as a biopic and just as this weird crazy art film I think it works really well That's why I love it so much. It's kind of a classic individual and an institution thing. It's just this human spirit that rebels against something institutional. Anything. It wasn't really even institutional because he says at the beginning, he's like, I was raised with good parents and I.

Just Got into trouble. It just seems sort of random. In a way. Well, and I don't know. It seems like whenever fiction takes something from life, like about a real person, usually what they do is manufacture motive.

And when they say it's as if he wanted to go to prison where he could do this and become famous... It's just really hard to believe that, isn't it? Really? Well, it seems almost kind of like an afterthought because there's not really any talk of that except for the stage thing. It's kind of like just sort of justified.

Yeah, he's justifying it like... Oh, I like prison. It's alright. It gave me an outlet to, I don't know, sharpen my tools. Yeah.

Really? Really? It does seem like somebody dealing with it, though. Like, it really is that inner monologue, and it gives you sort of that, like, I'm stuck in the worst possible situation, so what do I do with it? Oh, well, I find the best possible way to look at things.

So that's sort of what, you know, that whole production in his head is like. It's I thought it was great. It's sort of accepting where you are in life and, I guess, making the best of it, even when you're in a horrible, horrible place. So there's a good life lesson for everybody. Cheer up and enjoy prison.

As a fantasy, it seems a little bit like kind of an adolescent fantasy. I don't know if we ever grew out of adolescence, is the thing. Well, I don't know. If you ever were somebody who got in trouble in school. There's kind of like this thing like you couldn't let it beat you you had to just keep getting in trouble uh because they say now stop doing that and it's like well now you're daring me.

Well and he's always i mean that's like ben what you were saying like the childlike aspect of him he's always like that like no matter how long this run goes you don't know It's never even like a reason that he's pissed off. They'll just come in and say, do this, you know, no matter what. They're like, take this medicine. He wants to put on a show. Go fuck yourself.

Yeah. Whether it's beating someone up, he just wants to put on a show. Like, when he locks that guy, he holds the guy hostage. Yeah. And you don't know, he's just talking.

To him like, he's like, you're family, man. He's like, yeah, he's like, what's your name? And he's like, no, I'm just screaming. He's like, oh, God. Like, you don't know when he's just going to flip out and just be all just like, oh, I'm just.

Well, even like when he's in the other institution and they're just trying to drug him and he's laying there on the bed and he's such a spoiled teen. He's just like, I don't have to do anything you tell me to. He just rolls over and curls up and I'm like, there's such a bratty teenager there. He's like, I don't have to do what you say. So, yeah, I think.

Again, I don't think he ever gets out of that adolescent mindset. His face is bloody to a pulp. And it's just like, it's basically the warden comes in and it's like a teacher comes in and it's like, are you ready to come out of time out now? And he's like, no. And he's like, that's exactly what that is.

You guys are stupid. Like, he's at the dance. Like, this is when it's too fantastical. Like, they have a dance at this psycho warden. Actually, that's my favorite scene.

There's this guy with a tennis racket in the back. Going back and forth. And because they put this together through editing, he's always in a different place. It was a long tracking shot throughout the entire insane asylum, and he just keeps running with the camera, swatting nothing. Should we all stop for a minute and mimic our favorite person doing their day?

Exactly. The dude dancing. I actually found the whole mental hospital segment to be just incredibly... depressing. But the stuff in the background. Was.

That's why there's so much to catch. So it was kind of a weird... It's. Definitely a movie that. Also, like, that's where I lost the realism of it a bit.

I mean, not that it was realistic beforehand, but the fact that they had completely drugged him to, like, a pulp, like, you know, a brain anymore. Then all of a sudden he, like, comes out of it. Yeah. But he's been drugged the whole time, so that's when I was like, okay, I've got to completely, like, release, like, this is just. In his mind.

Since he's telling the story, maybe he exaggerated it in his own mind. Like, maybe he wasn't drugged that much. But in his mind, he thought, does this make sense? Yes. You were confused.

No, no, no, no, no. I'm thinking back to. The scenes in my head where he's drooling and snotty and just sitting there. And then all of a sudden, yeah. One thing that struck me, and this is kind of a non sequitur, but there is a part when he tries to kill the patient.

Yeah, the other guy. And he's on stage and he's talking about it. And he says, it was a murder gone wrong. And when he said that, it suddenly... sparked in my mind is here's a, here's basically a very violent person, you know, explaining like what happened and he calls it a murder gone wrong. And then I remember that there's been all these reports in the media, whenever there's like an assault or like, like a robbery, they, they call it a robbery gone wrong.

Or I read recently a home invasion gone wrong. And it's amusing to me that like the media is now using line that is essentially what a criminal, how a criminal will describe their own activity and oh, you know, if I got arrested, it was an armed robbery gone wrong versus, like, isn't an armed robbery in a home invasion? It's always been like, it's supposed to have gone right. Right, right. It went perfectly, like, it went smoothly.

Well-executed murder. It's like in Dog Day Afternoon. Like in Dog Day Afternoon, where the bank tellers are like, you don't even have a plan. Yeah. This is a robbery gone wrong.

We have a plan. Yeah, so he's kind of, that part, you know, he's kind of like a, Mick Murphy from Cuckoo's Nest, crossed with Daniel Day-Lewis from. Gangs of New York. He has that kind of quality. I can see that, yeah.

It just felt so incoherent to me. Well, you know what? That kind of makes sense because I think the director, Nick Wenning-Refn, has said that 70% of that movie was reshoots. like they went back and like everything you've seen there was like there was already like a finished version of the movie but like the final product is like you know everyone was called back to like reshoot a lot of the movie and it does kind of feel like you said like segmented like it has this disjointed feel and like and as a narrative it doesn't quite have a smooth flow to it and it's more style. Than anything else and I think a lot of it is because of just. The having to reshoot like I don't know like the the production process, but I feel like that can kind of be since when you watch it.

The more I've seen it, yeah, I can see that. This was more of a collage of moments than a movie, I guess. Yeah, to me it feels a little bit like they had this actual guy who's very notable for something, and they think, wow, what interesting material for a movie to. Explore, but it doesn't really.... Add up to, like, a convincing fiction for me, or I don't get it.

But, you know, I have trouble with that in lots of... Citizen Kane, for me, is problematic in that... That's a movie that if you're, like, if you're just a moviegoer, like, basically when I first watched, like, unless all my friends who, like, love Citizen Kane, they love. It because as they're watching, like, oh, this shot, and from a directing standpoint. this technology, this is so great. But if you're just wanting to watch, like, you know, an entertainment, like, or even if the story's like, I think it's okay, like, it's, I don't want to, that sounds stupid when I say Citizen Kane's overrated, but.

You know what I mean? That is last for me. Yeah, but like, if. You just want to, like, if you're sitting down watching Citizen Kane, you're like, okay. Yeah, to just sit down.

Interviews, and you're like, people getting interviewed, you know, this guy's like. And you don't know what to do with him, because, you don't really get to know him as a. Character you have to ask me the context for like you know how it was made what orson welles did to make like what all was involved like it's i think it's one of those movies you have to like have some research beforehand and like know what's going on but it's being. Made but even so i mean they're having interviews with people who knew kane yeah and they're commenting on him and saying oh he only cared about himself and but It's like, what do you make of that? Do you have no reason to believe him?

You have no reason to not believe him. It doesn't advance the story or the character at all. So it's kind of like, well... are they not i don't know it's problematic it's a romantic theft that you know it's based on somebody and as a marketing thing he he's and i think it's hemmed in by legal problems just what he could get away with saying i mean he's the story was halfway written by lawyers, and that's just not good storytelling. I think you just have to separate the story on the screen from what, and again, that gets you in trouble with a lot of movies now that are based on a true story. But definitely that's what I was thinking with Bronson, was like, I'm watching even like a few minutes in, and I'm just like, I'm assuming they took a lot of artistic license here.

But maybe not enough. Well, in a way, it's maybe not enough artistic life. Yeah, I kind of. Feel like you should either just mythologize, you know, if you're going to look at a historical event or a historical person or a real person, it's almost like you either just need to mythologize it completely and really give it a dramatic impetus, or you really should stick as close as possible to, you know, what actually happened. One or the other, instead of like...

It seems like we've got this... this material and we're going to do something with it. But then it sort of peters out. It's like, back to having this material. If you're going to go nuts with it, go like bad shit. Go like, you know, Todd Haynes and, you know, the Bob Dylan movie.

Just be weird, like, all the way. It's a good movie. You know what I mean? Like, you're right. It does kind of want to stick to, like, the facts and being chronological and then this happened and then this happened.

But it also wants to be this, like, the mental, you know, Yeah, it's kind of in between for me. It's like, what if Shakespeare was like, instead of mythologizing the story. About Macbeth or any. Of his history plays, I'm going to try to stick as close as possible to the facts. It's like you're either going to mythologize it and tell this great tale within this context and.

Put it into terms that people can grasp. And make it a morality tale or whatever it's going to be, or you're going to stay close to how real life is, which is chaotic and jumbled and narratively an issue. It's like when you watch that kind of movie and you get so far into it and you think, this is probably based on a memoir. Because nobody writing fiction would write something so sort of aimless and random as life. Right.

Because in life, things get that way. And I just don't feel like, as fiction, how it builds coherently to where it's going. I mean, I feel it trying to do that, and it's very enjoyable, but in the end, I'm like, they didn't really own the material. Right. But if you view it again, again, my thing about not as a biopic, just in the world of the film, the story of the film, viewing it as a story being related by basically a crazy man on a stage, you know, it's going to be disjointed.

He's going to jump around, he's going to leave stuff out. Yeah, I do agree. That was the intention, to have it just back and forth. I guess the question for me would be, why choose that subject? Why is that why even choose, you know, it's okay, yes, like I saw the movie Clean Shaven, which is basically a movie from the perspective or mind of a schizophrenic, and it shows that jumbled kind of, you know.

Zed, Zed, it's like. The guy plays Zed from Pulp Fiction, he plays a schizophrenic. But I guess the question for me is, I'm asking myself just as a person, it's like, why, why, why? Why? I'll give you that, because as you get into it, it's like, if you take out all the artistic stuff, what's left really isn't enough of a story.

Like, again, it's all well shot, but I don't know that it's enough to want to keep watching. If all you had was just him in prison, him in the mental ward, him back in prison. You know? It's just like, if you took out all the rest of it, do you care? Like, is there really enough going on there to give you reason to keep watching and to perpetuate this as it goes on where once you put all that in so I don't know I'm not sure it's like like you were saying why do we care about this person enough I mean it's an interesting fact okay he spent you know 34 years in prison 30 in solitary confinement that's a hell of a lot of time for never killing everyone and for being a relatively young guy at that point the majority of his life was spent in a box by himself that's crazy But is it enough to sit there for an hour and a half?

Is there enough going on just in that to make a movie about that? And are you really making a movie about that if you're not really making a movie about that? If you're talking about other stuff. Is it really about a guy who has experienced that much? I don't think it is.

Me neither, but that's okay. I think it's definitely like... It's okay. There's nothing wrong with it. I just don't...

It's not that. It doesn't even function as a vibe. I would say how... I would say, how is it a story, though? It doesn't...

How is it a story? It's definitely weak. But then again, I think a movie can also be just interesting. And nothing more. Just in anything.

So necessarily, if a movie's story, if something else is like, you know, the story's weak, but if something else holds my attention and is interesting to me, I'll be enough for me to keep watching. But at the same time, I'm like, okay, for... Not for everyone. It's definitely not for everyone. Because, you know, it is...

Again, you're like, you know, you find yourself asking, like, what is this about? Where is it going? And you find out it doesn't really have a beginning, middle, and. End, I guess. It's all fun, and it's all good, but it's just not as memorable, or it doesn't...

Yeah, for me, it doesn't work as a story. All these flaws you all are pointing out, I don't see as flaws. I see them as the reasons I love them. Yeah. And I point out flaws, too.

Like, I'm like, I love the movie, too. I mean, I totally do. But at the same time, I definitely recognize, like, where it's, like, what it doesn't, what it's not wanting to do. And I think the director, like, Nicholas Wayne Redmond, if he, I think Drive was actually the first movie that felt like a story. Like, everything I'd seen of his before, that was, like, this one whole experience.

Like, The Hollow Rising. Was just, I can't remember anything. I think you can challenge narrative expectations, and that's cool. I'm not really saying it's a flaw, I'm just saying it's not all that interesting in the end. It's interesting all along, but after I've watched it, I'm not really all that interested in it anymore.

Sometimes I think that's the trouble with basing things on a true story, is because the sad part is, then you can't veer away. Like, By the end, if you're going to call it that, people are going to say, well, this isn't how it does it. I mean, they stray from it, but eventually you have to kind of end up where the character in the real world ends up. And sometimes that's boring or wrong for your movie. It would be a lot easier if this was just a random story that he made up, and in the end he could do whatever he wanted with it.

But he has to end up back in the same place, in the same situation. So I think it does sort of hurt the movie as a fictional story, if it were a fictional story, because... he has to end up right back where it was. And to me, that's the problem. I think that first half is really entertaining. And the second half is, but it seems like it needs to be going somewhere else.

It seems like it needs to do something else. It's like once he gets out, that's probably the most interesting thing is seeing him back on the streets and seeing him interacting with people again. And then when he goes back in, it's just like, okay, we've seen this before. And it never really goes anywhere after that. It's just back to the same thing we've already seen.

It's so much better this second half. Those are my favorite scenes. The scene where he takes the guy hostage. And then the very last scene where he ties the guy up and paints him with the apple of his mouth. Just looking at him.

That's a piece of me right there. And I just find that indescribable. See, it's interesting. I think that works on the artistic level. Again, it's all that stuff that he did that just sort of veers off and does his own weird directing kind of take on it.

But the story just doesn't seem like... It needs somewhere else to go for me to really wrap up a little better. Because I like... Again, it gets in that part where he starts getting into his art, and that seems like it's going to go somewhere, and then it kind of doesn't, and. It ends up.

The most you get is that hostage scene there where he paints him, and then it's kind of right back to where it's been everywhere up until that point. I think he thought, though, that he knew his art wasn't going to go anywhere. After he passed that role, he sort of had like. the moment of hope, and then he went back to his old ways. But I find it interesting when you were talking about Citizen Kane, like why we watch the films we watch, and how from a director's standpoint or a DP's standpoint, that's a phenomenal film. And so for me, I really enjoy this film because I more and more.

As an actor watch movies for performances. And although I wouldn't say it's, like, entertaining or had a great storyline, I mean, there were some flaws to it. As a performance, I was blown away, especially because I've only seen Tom Hardy in Inception, where he's very, like, stove-faced, and he barely has any expression. At least that's how I remembered it. He's very dapper.

And the fact that he really didn't have anyone to work off of. He wasn't really, like, developing. Relationships with any actor. He only had about five minutes with everyone. Yeah, I think she's right.

His performance holds the name. And he hasn't done anything with that much, like, Like you said, everything he's done since Inception. Oh, come on. This means war? That's a stellar...

He's a great actor. Don't get me wrong. He's been awesome in everything I've seen him in since, but just nowhere near as like. None of those movies left the impression that Bronson did. Like Bane, his face is covered.

Inception, he's just kind of off to the side. Tinker Tail Soldier Spy, he was great in it, but again, he was kind of put to the side. He was probably the most. you know, intense thing about. That movie, but... It's a pretty slow-paced movie.

And I was going to say, like, we. Do, if there's one thing you have to thank Bronson for, it's that, like, the fact that Tom Hardy is famous now and is in movies as much as he is, because I think that's, like, all these amazing directors saw that movie and were like, wow, I want that guy. That's the thing I was going to say, because this wasn't his breakthrough role. I think it is as a performance. He was a bad guy in Star Trek Nemesis, which I was like, I remember seeing that in theaters.

But even then, it was like... And he was, like, this, like. If you go to his page, it credits Inception as being his breakthrough. And I'm like, I guess for mainstream people that was it. But I'm like, he's been working for 15 years.

The same with Michael Fassbender. People are like, what made him famous? I was like, Hunger. All these directors saw Hunger and they're like, wow, he's going to be awesome. But people probably say Glorious Basterds or X-Men.

Yeah. exactly Inglourious Basterds was kind of that point when I think everybody. When he entered the main street yeah. Because I remember that was the time I'm sitting there going who is this guy that's what everybody did I'm assuming and. Then you like look up and be like oh yeah he was in like 300 for 30 seconds and all this like all these. Obscured and yeah Tom Hardy's like that too because I went back and what's he doing in.

A Star Trek movie he's in these Guy Ritchie movies you know he just showed up but uh he didn't show up but he played roles. But Well, yeah, I mean, I think that is the other, I mean, it really is based on those two things which kind of carry this. I mean, it's got its problems overall, but I think the look and the visual style of it is one half, and the rest is Tom Hardy, and he's just amazing on screen, and it is that one-man show, and it's basically, literally, putting on makeup and doing a whole show, but every second that he's on screen, you're just like, amazed by him like you you can't not look at whatever weird horrible violent thing he's doing. Yeah it's really compelling i'm not sure that i'm i don't think i'm saying that it has flaws i think i'm saying that it has there's stuff it doesn't have yeah like there are other movies that are like biopics and they're about and and i think there's something wrong with them there's just something cynical like their exploitation yeah and they're and i don't feel that about this.

I don't think it's trying to tell you something that... But yeah, there are things I feel that it doesn't really come through. Yes, sir? Can I help you? Yeah, um.

I want to take a butcher's at that ring there. That ring there, sir? That's just a thousand pound ring, sir. Fine. Fuck off!

Don't fucking move! I'll kill you. What? Don't fucking move! Don't call the police for 10 minutes.

15 minutes. Happy Christmas. It's almost like in Sova, but it's more, I don't know, It's like Looney Tunes meets Clockwork Orange or something. I did get a very Clockwork Orange vibe sometimes. It definitely happened to, like, you know, the mental ward scenes.

Like, I was like, this style, like, the all-white, you know, the rooms. If the point was to, like, make us feel for him, though, I did. Like, at the end, you know how they say he's still in prison and he's never killed anyone and then they show him again. And the moment with the. Woman, like, I mean, I guess that's back to the performance.

Oh, his failed relationship. Yes. Oh, my God. I think that might be like watching it. Again, that might be my favorite part of the movie.

It's just that long shot. You think he's going to fly into a rage, but it's just. Him slowly stewing. You see his heart break into a million pieces. He's just pulling it in.

His body kind of shakes a little bit. He doesn't do anything. You just watch his heart break. You think he's going to do something violent and outrageous. That would kind of be cheap to do that.

I like that it just stays on me. He's just bummed out. He's like Ralph Wiggum when Lisa tells him, that she won't be as valiant. Yeah, and again, it shows like he's a kid. He's kind of a gentle soul, like he's a sweetheart at the same time.

He's a violent psychopath. I think it's virtue. Yeah. No, it's Simpsons. I'm picturing...

I didn't hear the Simpsons part. He's like, look, if you rewind it, you can see the. Exact moment where his heart breaks. I'm just picturing Tom Hardy going, I choo-choo-choo-choo. Yes, exactly, yeah.

He could do that, too. He could. For a guy who gets beat up a lot, he's rather pretty. He's, well, he's pointing out his scars. You don't see him.

Even a dog, like a ravaging dog. Released the dog on him. I would have liked to see how that fight turned out. That was like in the montage. You don't see what happens after that.

I was like, I guess he won. I bet he got hurt a lot on that set. He was completely naked. Completely. We mean completely naked.

But I'm sure he. Got what he wanted. Just because, like, there's, like, ten people around him. That opening fight, some of those hits look real. Like, where he's down on the ground and, like, one of the guards, like, kicks him in the face.

I'm like, that, I'm almost positive that was a real hit. Because the way his head gave way was, like, that wasn't fake. It was, like, something hit him right there off screen. I'm like, that must have hurt, whatever that was, and it looked brutal. That's the other thing, is, like, he's so amazing to watch just because he's, And it is funny because you get that visual right off the bat.

He's just a caged animal. Especially since he spends half the movie naked. He literally has no clothes. He just sits there walking back and forth waiting to beat the hell out of somebody. And they come in and he does.

And then eventually as it goes on, he just gets beat to hell himself, but it always takes five or six guys to do it. Like, he is such a badass. Like, for somebody who's that much of a badass, he still gets beat to hell this entire movie. But it always, it's nobody ever gets the best of him. It's always, like, six guys on top of him just kicking him in the face.

Oh, you know what that just made me think of, though? What? Raging Bull. Yeah? Raging Bull, the scene where he's in the prison, and he's, like, punching the wall and saying, like, say, I'm an animal, I'm not an animal.

God, it's just. That's so sad when you watch that. Yeah, it is. It's, like, really powerful. But you get that with this.

And it's so unfair to, like, bring that up when we're discussing this movie. It's so tragically unfair. I don't know. I think this movie. I think you can't feel as sorry for him in this movie because the character is such a.

Larger than life. Yeah, he doesn't want you to. Yeah, he doesn't care. It's so large. Yeah, and it's like.

It goes into that Tim Curry range of cartoon-ness. Yeah, like you're into him, like you're kind of rooting for him in a way, but like Robert De Niro, you're just like, you see Robert De Niro as just like this sad, you know, tragic human being, and Bronson is just this, like I said, he's almost like a cartoon character who has, you know, there's little moments of like, you know, sympathy and like, you know, bits to show that he's human, but you know, more than anything, he's just this, this. I don't know, this. They keep falling into his trap. Like, that's the part that, like, bothers me about it.

Like, I felt for him at the end. When he's in, like, a cage where he can barely stand up in. Like, that's just not right. But at the same time, yeah, okay, you keep falling into his trap, so you keep... Like, the governor wasn't a very, like, a little character.

The guy that, like, would take his. He just wanted him to beat people up, it almost seemed like, so he could do. That to him at the end. If I do have, I guess, one main criticism, like, personally, It's actually that the guard figures and, like, the kind of, you know, the people he gets in trouble with are kind of, like, they're more movie stereotypes than anything else. They're always like, Bronson, you get.

You into trouble. He's been like, what have you. Done this time, bro? The stiff, you know, stick up their butt. I was just like, that's kind of a tired thing that they're going for.

Like, he's sticking it to the man. Like, none of those guys had any dimension to him. You know what I mean? Yeah, Andy Love was like, you felt bad for Andy Love because he was just like, he was just nice. He was just like, I'm a librarian in a prison.

I have two kids. He's like, yeah, I love that part. He's like, It's like, what happens now? He's like, I don't know. I don't know what happens.

He's like, all right, we'll just wait. Going back to the failed relationships thing, what happened to his wife and kid? They just moved on. They've been there so long. One presumes that, but it was never mentioned.

He gets out and he starts having this romance with this girl and it just never gets addressed. That's my only question. That's the kind of thing. It's like you get involved in that thread and. Then it's dropped and it's like, well then, what are we doing?

I'm not sure. And then I watched, like, right after I watched it, I watched The Apostle. And it made. A strange kind of weird connection. Because it's a similar kind of guy.

Who believes in what he's. Doing, in a way. And he has, like, these failed relationships, you know. He's violent. So that was a double feature.

Bronson and The Apostle. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. That's weird, though, when they show the baby. The baby's never, like, in the fort.

I don't think it is in the fort. It's just, like, in the background. Like, it's not even supposed to be, like, he has a child. Like, this is part of his life. It's just, like, baby.

He's like, then we got it. It's, like, baby. Life. Apartment. Like, it's almost like just a state, like, you know, this is what.

I don't think they were ever wanting you to think that, you know, it would tie into, like, a family drama or. Anything later on. Well, at one point they said 27 years had passed. 26 years, yeah. He didn't age, nothing.

So I think that was like when I was like, okay, let's just drop those people. Then I noticed his parents had aged. But I still was like, can I give up? I'm just going to watch for different people. Yeah, yeah.

It's like one of those one-person stage shows that's not. Yeah, I know what you're saying. It's just like a virtuoso performance thing that... It's really enjoyable, but I guess I don't really expect that from a movie because you don't see that a lot. People don't do that kind of thing.

I still think one of the highlights, as you get into it, is, again, that, like, brief period where he's not incarcerated. Yeah. When he gets out, he goes and finds his uncle, and then that... Well, that scene alone. And he's such an awkward, like.

Yeah, he's just... He's an all-hooking robot. Like, the way he moves when he's out. He's carrying the briefcase. He's, like, walking down the train station, like, this weirdo.

And, like, there are, like, just little. things he does like uh when he goes to his parents house and he wipes his feet for like yeah he's just like it's so funny it's this weird moment like it just. Keeps going on and you're just like. What is this guy like he doesn't know how to like maneuver around like furniture and stuff and like where you're when he's knocking on his uncle's door and the knob just lasts a little bit too long and it. Just keeps going. Which is very like you know like you're saying with just him being funny and like it is like there's moments when you're like okay you can't yeah you can't take this seriously like that when he goes in and he sits with the ladies and gentlemen in ladies attire and he gets the drink and he just it's that two minutes of that awkward silence and he just keeps turning his head and drinking and staring at everybody it's hilarious it's not like it's.

Played for laughs like he's doing a joke it's like also Raging Bull has hilarious. Moments that are not supposed to be Just. Because when he gets so angry, like when people get angry, it's weird and like upset, but you kind of have to like, when you watch it like that, it's just the awkwardness of the violence is just, just kind of have to laugh at it. Like, I know it sounds bad, but just kind of. I think it's just his delivery sometimes.

It's hilarious. But the awkwardness is really more like Travis Bickle's awkwardness. Exactly. Isn't it? He's kind of like that.

Not understanding how to work in the world. How to behave in the world. Because that's my other favorite of the just weird... awkward delivery that are just hilarious is that like when he gets sentenced that first time for saying yes. And he just sits there and he just looks he steps down like he doesn't care that he's going to prison he just. Looks around like what do i do now like.

His mode of thinking is like am i supposed to go i'm gonna leave. Now he's just like he's waiting. For someone to escort him he's just like i don't know what to do with myself You think he's just going to start crying or something, but it's great. It's those moments, yeah. That's why prison was so good for him, because he wasn't expected to do anything but sit in his cell and, you know, lash out towards me.

It kind of made me realize, like, how weird my sense of humor was, because, like, first game on The Office, I love Creed. Like, the guy that never has a line. What is he doing and then like again like i will never forget the waving tennis player so i just realized like i like like these strange little moments and people that are in there like the extras mean something to me. Yeah that guy just like at that. Moment i was like this is the funniest movie right now out of.

A real situation which is absolutely horrific there i like look there's multiple websites about free uh korean yeah Ed. Bronson, Charles Bronson, which I didn't know who the actor would be. He must be really happy that this guy took his name. Of anybody to just lock up or do something with, it seems like that guy is just going to go out and do it again and again and even in prison he's just gonna lash out over and over and over again. Yeah because you were saying he would they kept falling into his trap but at the same time i'm like it's his own trap like he he's trapping himself it's like this self-fulfilling prophecy of i don't really ever want like no matter how many things change i'm gonna screw myself over and end up right back where i was i'm going to make a little progress in the turnaround and do the exact same thing that gets me back in trouble back in a cage two minutes later it's So he does it to himself.

That's almost why you can't feel sorry for him like you do these other characters in other movies. It's like he's doing it to himself. He's on some level conscious that he's doing it to himself. And so by the end, you're just like, well, he got what he asked for. And that's his bizarre dignity.

Yeah. That's what makes him, you know, like. Because they didn't beat him. He still, like, he held his own no matter what. Even if they physically beat the hell out of him, took his life away from him, kept him in a cage his whole life.

It's like, I won. I'm still here. Yeah, I guess the big. Hole was we didn't really see something happen to him when he was younger in his adolescence to make him that way to feel for him. He just kind of said he came from a normal family, so that's why they beat him up.

And he was good at it, so he kept doing that. Yeah. And that's not really the greatest reason. I kind of like that, though, because that is a little... Like, every once in a while you get that in the world, that, like, it's not from any real...

People are just wired that way. That's just how things came out. Well, I got in trouble a lot when I was in high school, and teachers would say, well, you don't have to get in trouble. Like, I wasn't one of those kids from, like, the other side of the... I thought that's why I had to get in trouble, damn it.

That's like. I'm balancing things out here, man. I don't know what I was thinking. I was crazy. Raising the curve.

Come on. I think it was because I read Huck Finn when I was too young, and it messed me up. And I thought, you know, the idea of a young person having that kind of autonomy. And then I grew up in the suburbs, and it just seemed to me like to have a real experience, I had to, like, get in trouble, which is a delusion, but it's one I lived by for a while. I quit high school on my 16th birthday.

All right, Bronson, settle down. Yeah. And it worked out amazingly well because, you know, although I was crazy, I was lucky. It all fixed itself, but it took an unconventional path. Yeah, well, I did get, you know, both my parents... were college teachers all they wanted was for us to go to college and you know then we could die like that scene in mash where the dentist is um is committing suicide and the guy stands over and says you're throwing away your whole education i love that line that's great i.

Just remember in school thinking okay i remember being in first or second grade maybe kindergarten just going okay i've got this so many years before i you know go through elementary then middle then high school then college and every year it felt like you're they're just preparing you to learn to do the next thing for the next year yeah but it's like at a certain point you're just like why don't i just learn what i'm supposed to learn you know, for what I want to do instead of just wasting my time. We're learning things like how to do taxes. Things that, like, they make you do, but no one tells you in school. You know, you pay $ 40, 000 a year. Or whatever, and they're like, wait, I'm supposed to fill out this form?

It's like they think that they're preparing you for society. It's always like my high school's agenda, it was always like, you know, when you take this class and learn this set of things, just so you can take this test, because it's on this test you have to take, it's like, well. After the test, it's like, it's like schools don't care about educating you, like, you know. It's on the test. It's like, oh, well, it's on the test, so we have to go by these guidelines.

It's not like learning how to change a tire. It's just this modern invention that is useless in a way. Like, I mean, you could... Unless you're a doctor. Like, they need to go to school.

Right, but that's... I think especially by the time you're in high school, there's a kind of existential formaldehyde where they're preparing you for life, but, you know, really you're already alive. But they're not preparing you for life. It's such a myth that you have to decide where your path is in high school because most high schools, they can't offer anything that's going to impact you in a way that's going to be like, I want to do this. Everyone hated high school.

Most people would like to forget their high school experience. No one really, in terms of educating, impacting what you want to do with yourself. That doesn't really happen for college, I think, for most people. So I think. high schools just are fooling themselves when they think that, like, you know, we're going. To fail these kids.

Like, they'll have, whoa, we're going to die. It's, you know, sad. It's, I don't, I don't. They're, like, preparing you for, like, a hierarchy. Like, who's an AP?

Who's, like, you know, there's just, like, this. Thing you're feeling about. Maybe just some, like, more awesome, like, private schools. Yes, they crack you. Yeah.

You need to do really well in high school. Like I said, I went to, like, one of those public schools where it was all about test scores. Like, weird numbers, so-and-so, and the test scores, and that's. That's what they're about. But the thing is, the only way that they're preparing you for the real world is preparing you to be like a drone, where you just have to memorize information and be a kind of bureaucrat.

But they want that, really. I mean, ideally, if everybody just sat there and, you know... mimic back what they say and didn't cause problems they'd be in heaven but. That was me i was i was like really good i'm good at memorization yeah you know so it's like yeah okay i'm gonna do the thing where i play my part i'm gonna memorize i'm gonna sit there i'm gonna spit out exactly what you want and it's like the. Whole point of education should be to teach. People how to think critically You know, and it's like that doesn't happen at all.

Yeah, or just on your feet, just because so many people just. Like in primitive societies, it's like you go through the rite of passage where you are actually learning the skills that you need to know for your tribe, hunting or whatever it is. You learn it or you don't survive, basically. Right, and what's the skill that we're learning? We're learning to just... shut up and sit there and do.

What I say. I think the point is that everyone here, maybe excluding me, but all got our education from movies. That was a real education of life. I don't think, yeah, like, it's, people don't give movies enough credit for, like, just teaching you. About, like, just shit, you know.

In the world. No, no, more specifically, just shit in the world. All life's mysteries gather from the movies. Everything can be found in the movies. What is that from?

It sounds like Jeff Goldblum. It's actually from, because it was one of my favorite parts in Grand Canyon. Which is a Lawrence Capstan, yeah. It's not a bad movie. It's one everybody forgets about.

That's a really interesting movie. Yeah. It's weird because, well, what's their names? Steve Martin and Kevin Kline are both in that. And I always thought Steve Martin and Kevin Kline were similar people.

Their cadence, the way they kind of look. And that's just weird that I finally saw. Them in the same movie. They're kind of like the same person. But they're very different in that, it seems like.

Yeah. from each other. They can be very comic and funny and like, oh yeah, that guy's cool, but they can be serious. Who was it I was watching recently that was just like, so Kevin Kline without being Kevin Kline. It's like, why don't you just go ahead and be Kevin Kline if you're gonna... I don't know.

I feel that way about John Malkovich and Peter Sassner. I sometimes feel like they're similar. They are. It's their voice to me. Wow.

Because he plays in Man in the Iron Mask. He plays. Peter Sussgard plays John Malkovich's son. And it was interesting that they picked that. I feel like a whole podcast can be done on, like, celebrities who are basically, like, the same person.

Like, I get that. I get, like, John Heard and John. Oh, no. William Hurt and John Heard. They feel like the same person to me.

Because, like, just the way... Like, I guess. They look similar, and also their acting kind of style is, I guess, I don't know, it's weird. But I feel like both of those people should not have been both actors, because they're two. You know, I think sometimes in movies, sometimes actors get picked up because they carry a certain familiarity or a resonance that they think. audiences are familiar.

Especially these days because everyone's all about nostalgia and quoting things from the. 80s and 70s. When they see someone's. Like, oh, you're like so-and-so the way you said that line. People making decisions are going like, well, they're sort of like this and we can use them as that person.

And we can get them for cheaper. The truth is that in fiction and in life, there's just kind of these stock characters. And people kind of fit into different into different categories, you know, a lot of the time. So that's, I mean, Hollywood is so designed around stereotypes. What is your type?

What do you get when you look at somebody in their face? That's what you were talking about. Faces are such a big thing in film. I mean, literally, they're huge. But just that little bit of magic, like when you meet somebody and you form an impression, that's so integral to the medium of film.

Yeah. Obsessiveness with faces. That was Bergman. Bergman is just, this movie, his films are about the face. Sorcery Leonis.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Who actually cast the original. Which is why I love. These Westerns because, yeah, sorry.

Just because there's so many close-ups and you always think about Westerns like, you know, before that, like the American one, there were always these wide shots of, you just, Like, do you just think of stock images of just, you know, horses riding around the sunset? Like, when I think of Sergio Leone, I think of, like, oh, what's his name? Peter Fonda, just, like, just, you know, the camera opening, just kind of looking around, or just some kind of Mexican standoff where everyone's looking at each other. Like, it's so different. But just those close-ups.

We've spiraled off into other areas. I'm assuming we've wrapped up Bronson. What is it you want now? Music paradise of treasure, barely perceived, a self-increased destruction of our natural world. It's been said that when you're young.

You make a bunch of yourself. No, that's torture, the brain of Palestine. Mummy? Yes, dear? Mummy, I want to hear some of Nick Tan's wonderful songs.

Do you, dear? Yes, Mummy. What can I do? Well, dear, you can go to www.nictan.co.uk. Will there be details of his gigs there too, Mummy?

Yes, dear. Will there be pictures of him and his instruments? Oh, Mummy, please say yes. Yes, dear. Will there be widgets, too, to click on?

You know, those ones that link to his blogs and his podcasts? Yes, dear. And links to his friends' websites, too? Yes, dear. Mummy?

Yes, dear. Are there links to. Simply everything that Nick Tan does there? Yes, dear. What was the address again, Mummy Dearest?

Www.nictan.co.uk Oh, thank you, Mummy. Thank you so very much. The show is about to start, folks, but the refreshment stand will remain open for your pleasure. They called him Machete. Machete.

This is Danny Trello, a.k.a. Machete. And you're checking out Movie Meltdown. You better keep checking it out or. I'll come looking for you.

And I got machetes. I soon realized. They just fucked with the wrong Mexican. Machete. Machete.

It's part of your problem, you know. You haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies. And now, on with the show. I'm in my prime till I die, I'll die, I'll end for murder, now your life's on the line, swear by the whites of my eyes, that the imagery I'm bringing is so vivid, it gives sight to the blind, Christ the divine, my brain is a smart bomb, combined with Oppenheimer design, mind flowing, Sam, you're right, rodents, sleep with my third eye open, scoping, candles are played out, on my next birthday, make a death wish and blow.

My brains out Eleven letters, never getting confused We're. Better than you, independent There's. A legend to truth, this here. Solitary confinement, alone in this mental asylum Oh, you know what? Can we do this?

Through the episode, we should pick out who we would cast to play. The movie that we just watched? No, us. Like if in the movie version of this podcast, who would play me? who would be Tom Hardy it's. So true I know what you mean Tom Hardy yeah because I just.

Realized who Rush Limbaugh is like I knew what he looked. Like but I never heard him speak Rush Limbaugh is French and then. I was like when I heard him speak I was like that voice doesn't go with the body that. I'd seen on TV I thought it was like. A much younger gentleman like.

Listening to him yeah we're throwing that word around a little loose. That's so true would you cast I guess Elijah Wood for me. I get that a lot. No, but that's based on what you look like. Not your voice.

Oh, my voice. Oh, we're doing voice. Or just whatever. Actually, I was going to say the guy from Deadwood for you. Oh, Deadwood?

Okay, I was going to say the most I've ever gotten is the guy from that 70s show. Oh, yeah. A little bit. No, no, no. Topher?

Topher Grace. Topher's not bad. I saw him at a Ralph's. They're not Ralph's. Oh, it's like the supermarket in L.A.

Yeah. I was like walking out. I was walking in, he was walking out. You know, there's kind of that awkward thing when you see a celebrity or you see somebody who's famous. They noticed that you noticed and know who they are.

And then like, you know, I didn't say anything. It was like, I didn't really, you know, want. To bother him or anything. It was just that long kind of moment. Where we looked at each other and he knew that I knew who he was and he didn't know who I was.

You know, I did that with the Fonz once. Oh yeah. That's the one story you. Should have gone off to say hi to. It's actually on one of the shows.

He came up to him. It's on the show. And I'm sitting there, and the Fonz comes walking by, and I'm like, oh, hey. And we're talking, and I'm telling the story of John Carpenter. It's that episode.

Yes, it was. And he walks up to me, and he's like, hi. And I'm like, wow, it's nice to meet you. He said, it's really nice to meet you. Really?

What? Hey. And he said, congratulations. And I'm like. Yeah, does it mean, I think he's the shirt on John Carpenter being, is that something you congratulate somebody for?

I don't know, I'm like, well, thanks, yeah, that's true. He is just really nice, I think is what it is. He really, yeah, it was really nice, but I think he thought I was Sling Blade. Billy Bob Thornton. We might be able to get him.

Yeah. Billy Bob Thornton? Yeah. I would be too. stars like i would be able to. Talk no i think the fons thought i was billy bob but billy bob thornton from sling blade not just every billy.

Bob thornton just that yeah so then maybe billy bob for fred that's something. You know i got that i think where we used to work we used to cast the the movie version of where we work and uh And I think I said Ed Harris for me, and people were like, what? And then somebody said. No matter what you pick, people are going to be like, no, you're way off. Somebody said Billy Bob Thornton, and everybody goes.

And I didn't get it, because I knew him from a lot of things, but I'd never seen Sling Blade. Then I saw Sling Blade, and I went, all right. Okay. I get it. You do?

Yeah. Strangers tell me I look like Ashton Kutcher. You do. Actually, when I tell the podcast to my family, I say, Alan, the guy who looks kind of like Ashton Kutcher. Just do a That Sent Me Show thing.

He's on the Nikon commercials right now, and my wife's watching TV, and my two-year-old is like, Daddy! Oh, that's great. If only you were also cashing those checks, that would be handy. I don't much care for his after-lives. Well, he was... brilliant on that 70s show.

I don't know about anything since then. That probably is the peak of his performance. We've half-casted. I don't look like really any actors. No, you do.

There's a... Anybody. I guess I'm one of those guys. But you don't look like a hobbit. No, you look like two of them had a baby.

Yeah. No, he does. He kind of looks like Dominic Monaghan. You know that Gollum character? That's not too bad.

Dominic Monaghan. He's normal, you know. You can do worse. Drive shaft, yeah. Just say the baby clap.

The baby. The baby. The baby. You're going to die, brother. That was the other guy.

That was Desmond telling Charlie that he was going to die. But there's a soccer player who plays for Chelsea. Yeah, he's a Spanish soccer player. His name's Juan Mata. You can Google him.

And it's like. It's like my twin. People are like, you look like mine. Probably not. And I finally do it and I'm like, holy shit.

This is like when people tell you you have a twin on the other side of the world. Like, I think I found him. Like, this guy is Juan Mato. It's nuts. It's very obscure, but I didn't know it's the one person I somewhat look like.

You kind of look like the guy on Deadwood who played the guy who shot Wild Bill Hickok, and later he came back and played a guy who worked for Hearst. He was on Deadwood as two different people. I know, yeah. He wasn't also, I keep going back to Lost, but like, was that, he wasn't on Lost. Jack McCall.

Jack McCall. Jack McCall. I've heard the name. I would definitely know. Well, no, that was the actual guy who shot Hickok.

Oh, okay. I'm trying to think who played him. Because I heard about that. Yeah, he was like the only guy they brought. He liked the director or whoever the showrunner is brought him back.

And he disappears into his roles. But I think he's doing some sort of TV thing now. Well, I'd like to shout it out to Randy because Randy's the one who originally put it in. Oh, yeah. You're a very VIP listener.

Yeah, we're... We're pretty thrilled with Randy, and he specifically picked this out as, well, I guess it was another one of those we were trying to find movies, because you not only hadn't seen a lot of movies, but you had some sort of weird innocence that we were trying to go ahead and destroy. So we were like, what's a horribly violent, yeah, see, I don't know that this is the one, because this one has a weird fun aspect about it. Maybe watch Kill List. I don't know.

Yeah, Randy did. I don't know if she's seen Kill. I've heard of it, though, actually. Just don't watch it. I've seen The Human Centipede, and I'm still okay.

Have you seen the second one? No, I'm not. I mean, that was, I can't even believe that whole time's happened. It was me before, but, yeah. I try to forget it every day.

The second one, I actually almost had to turn it off because there's this one scene that just really, really disturbed me. You mean you didn't have any of those in the first one? No, the first one's fine. I was coasting right through that first one. The thing with the second one is something very specific to something that bothers me.

If I see it in movies, it's the only thing that bothers me. I don't want to spoil it for anyone. Those are two movies I know. We've never watched. I'll tell you about it after we do.

Oh yeah, because we're on the air. Oh, that's right, we're doing a podcast. The damnedest thing, all these microphones and shit. So yeah, thank you to Randy for putting this in the queue. Not that we don't have 40 or 50 movies in there already, but this one sort of shoved it to the front of the line because we thought, what the hell is Rose going to think of this?

But yeah, I think we've gotten our take on it. It's interesting. It's visually impressive, and Tom Hardy's pretty damn amazing. Other than that, anything to pass along this week? I do want to say thank you to Scooter and Rose for once again sitting in with us.

Do you have new things you want to pass along to people or tell people about the previous movie? Well, yeah, I want everybody to be on the lookout for It's in the Blood. We're pretty close to securing a distribution contract, agreement with somebody so hopefully you know by the end of the year it'll be out and being on demand so look for it we're on twitter facebook um it's in the blood lance henderson yeah very cool. Awesome all right otherwise that about does it we will return next week same geek time same geek feed thanks for listening. My man, my man, my man Someone do it for me I have to, yeah I suck at my brain, it's all in my back I'm sick of sad jokes and just But if I'm right, hold on my back I'm.

In the circle, there's nothing to fight. I kind of sometimes think I should just not be such an asshole. Are you nuts? Yeah, I kind of am. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios, with the opening music performed by The Empires.

For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard!