206: Bigfoot: Myths and Legends

I don't know what you're talking about. He wasn't recording. Was I supposed to be? Oh, shit. Brian's just sitting.

There thinking, anytime you guys want to get in the fucking subject, I'll press the record button. You all make each other... I'm ready. Hi, this is Lance Henderson, and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. Listen if you dare.

It's showtime. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences, and parental discretion is advised. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million. Kilowatts of power.

What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. Well, sort of. Actually, this is a special edition episode. During our recent Bigfoot episode, we veered off, like we often do, our normal movie topic and started talking about some real Bigfoot stories and some real Bigfoot experiences that were actually so fascinating that I kind of left it as its own episode. I was like, this is really interesting.

And I think, you know, even if you're not a Bigfoot kind of person, I mean, we had half of the people here with stories and the other half were sort of, you know, in the skeptic end. So we kind of We're all just sort of sitting here listening to stories. And whether you believe in it or not, there's some. Really interesting stories that come into play here. So if you are looking for normal movie meltdown rambling about movies, this is not it.

Fair warning, there's not really any movie talk in this at all. We're just talking Bigfoot and personal stories and, you know, what theories are out there and stuff like that. But that aside, it's really interesting and I like it. What we captured there, and I wanted to put it together as an episode. So this is it as it happened midway in.

We just sort of launched into this special edition Bigfoot episode. So I'm going to leave it at that. Once again, it's the same crew that we had on the... That wonderful sci-fi movie Bigfoot episode. Of course, I was there.

Dave was with us. Bo was with us. Ben was sitting in from Tower of Technobabble. And Greg and our usual Ben were also here. So it's the same lineup from there.

And we veer off into some real-world Bigfoot stories. So we'll take a break here and come back in the middle of the story session. So I hope you enjoy it. I think it's pretty damn interesting. How about a hearty Castleberry's pit-cooked barbecue sandwich?

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No one really knows. We're looking for the Boggy Creek Creatures. If you can take. My word for it, there ain't no monsters around here. Hey, boy, where do you think you're going to find that monster?

I'm going to find him in the swamp if it exists. He's been seen over a hundred times since. The early 50s. Seen by who? Drunks or city folks like you all want your names in the newspaper?

Something's out there, and it's heading toward Tanya. Tell him to come in, Brian. Come on. Come on. Get in.

Walk. Is it him? I don't know. Keep going. You better say something.

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All of life's riddles are answered in the movies. And now, on with the show. It's time for Tales from the Cryptids. The Bigfoot Five. The second time when he saw a custom bear growing up in his mind The hatchet-throwing sasquatch turned and peered With a look that wild animals do and feared And they feared the hatchet-throwing sasquatch.

Talk about our experiences. I don't. Know what that entails. Mine are minor, mine are minor compared to yours. Because I'm skeptical about mine anyway.

Yours are just fucked. So these are for show purposes, right? You're publicly announcing these findings? To a degree. I at least have some footage of something on the one from when I was filming Balloons on the Police.

There's weird corroborative stuff about it. And it's all in the same nick of the woods. So you found Bigfoot, aside from on Facebook. I once was in a tent. thought that I heard Bigfoot. See we should just be recording because all of us have stories I guarantee you this is all part of it's already on oh it's still rolling okay we're back hello.

It's like we're on a campfire just have crickets in the background everybody's telling Bigfoot stories you know. So do you want to continue on with your stories or. Sure well there's a lead into that in that I know a local Bigfoot investigator who's a lot less crazy. Than many But enthusiastic all the time. Very enthusiastic guy.

They do KentuckyBigFoot.com. Can you give his name? Charlie Raymond. Yeah. And Charlie's a pretty cool guy.

Mm-hmm. And Charlie's got a pretty good hand on his shoulder. He's an educator. And he knows about some things that happened to me that are very odd. And we got to talking, and I think he needed some equipment, maybe to do some filming or something.

Mm-hmm. And right around the same time, you had been shooting your last picture. And something interesting happened in the middle of the night while they were shooting. That's how we all kind of hooked up, but I'll throw it over to Bo. Yeah, well, I mean, that night, I mean, you know, prior to that, actually, Hugh had mentioned to me, that was back when you got back into Bigfoot.

And at that point, you know, I was never, like, huge into Bigfoot to me. Again, I always dug, like, Mothman or the Flatwoods Monster, all the offbeat ones were what I dug. But I was telling a story about just one night when I got home late from the theater. And my parents live out in Claremont, by, like, the Jim Beam Distillery, and this was when I was still at home, and it was after we'd had Rocky at the theater, so I was getting. Home 3, 3.30 in the morning, and it's just a very strange thing, because I was getting stuff out of the car, just books and that, and I swear I heard, just like, coming across the valley where we live.

It's a very, very heavily wooded area where they live. Just hearing sort of like a hello or hey-bo. The downside to my name is if somebody says hello, it could be hey-bo and I don't know. But I heard that come across the valley and I just stopped. And I remember thinking, well, I need to stop and listen because if I just keep shuffling papers and shuffling books, I could mishear and I would swear that, you know, I just misheard something.

So I just stopped, froze my tracks, and just listened to the night. And this was. In like a November. I mean, it was pretty cold out. But I just remember standing and listening and just very vividly hearing like the hello again.

At which point, you know, it freaked me out because out there, they didn't have the porch light on, so it's pitch, pitch black. And I just started scrambling. for the door and i could have sworn i just heard this voice just out in the woods out in the blackness just sort of saying like where are you going or something sort of like that i couldn't quite make it out and then got into the house and just for some reason one of the windows was like cracked open i just very vividly heard like a baby crying or something like that but just very very loud and never heard anything like that before because just you know i've lived in the sticks for most of my life so i'm used to all the sounds of the woods and that you know It just doesn't throw me off.

But it was just kind of weird. And then Dave mentioned, he's like, well, that sounds similar to some Bigfoot thing. Yeah, there's people over there. There's all kinds of theories about noises people hear. And some people say Bigfoot's a great mimic, which could be a good excuse to call anything Bigfoot.

That's true, too. But there are several patterns that seem to prop up, and one of them is it sounds almost like a baby crying. And sometimes they even describe mimicry of like a human voice will go on. You know what's funny? The whole mimicry...

And the baby crying thing, that is what a lot of people say the Popelik monster is supposed to do. And when I was looking into the Popelik story, there is no signature case. It's pretty much a campfire story. The only kind of real tangible case is this story in either the 30s or the 40s about, a group of Boy Scouts getting attacked by it. So again, campfire stories probably all made up, but it was in a time period before the term Bigfoot came into the national consciousness.

So if it had been after 58, after Bigfoot, a term had gotten popular, they probably would have said, that it was a Bigfoot, but they didn't know that word, so they described it as something else. So this state actually does. Have kind of an interesting history with wild men or monstrous type of things out there. But it was weird, and it was actually after right about the time that you'd mentioned that there had been a lot of sightings and other incidents in that particular valley. I was just filming for one of my low-budget things, and it was.

It was late. It was probably about 2 in the morning. We were out there filming. It was me and three other fellows. And we were just filming on my parents' property.

And one of the actors had decided he wanted to change something around. In the scene prior, they get visited by the ghost of the woods. And he tells them, he's like, well, do you know what the greatest killer in these woods are? And I think the line I'd originally written was peacocks. Like, he's just like, peacocks?

It's just like some stupid guess. But then he's like, no, let's change it to Sasquatch. I was like, all right. I was just open for whatever we wanted to do. So they're in this scene where basically they're wandering around in the woods and they keep hearing sounds.

And just one of them just overreacts completely. And he just screams, Sasquatch! And runs off into the night. Well, in this one take that I've got on video, he... screams Sasquatch and runs off, and Wade just kind of laughs, like, you ran the wrong way, and he knocks the light over, so it's completely pitch black. And then, like, in that little lull when nobody's saying anything, you hear this very bizarre sound.

I mean, that's the only way to describe it. It's not like, I don't know, it's just, it's not bird-like, and it's not, you know, like a cougar or coyote or anything. It's just very odd. Yeah. It's a strange noise.

And at that point, we're all just like, my brother was out filming too. And, you know, he's same as me, grew up in the woods all of life. And we just heard that sound. And, you know, the other guys, they live in the city and there's like, what's that? And my brother, John and I were like, shh, because we were like, what the hell is that?

And then I sent it in to Charlie and he sent it to somebody and they couldn't figure out what the sound was whatsoever. Yeah. He's like, that's just really weird. Yeah. And this was right around that time I had been talking to Charlie.

We actually did a little driving tour out there. Yeah, it'd be February of 11. Yeah. February 2011. He started telling me about these reports, which I'd be going to him heavy because they're kind of his deal.

But it's like in Bullitt County, right around Claremont. Mm-hmm. And right around... The forest there. Yeah, because I remember you mentioned one of the roads.

You're like, do you know what that is? I'm like, yeah, that's just a couple. There have been multiple reports since the 70s of people seeing stuff across the road, some dogs being slaughtered, all this crazy stuff had gone on. And he starts pointing out these spots to me, and they're all around where your parents live. Yeah.

So I was like, oh, that's pretty weird. He still wants to come out to my parents' property because they've got like 10 acres. There's a law enforcement officer out there who has seen things. Yeah, who apparently lives in the same. Neighborhood as them.

What time of the year was this? This was February. Yeah, winter. And the other one was like November. So both of them, it was when it was like cool out, but not so cold.

It was like snow or anything on the ground. So that's, you know, intriguing. The reason I introduced those guys is because Charlie had talked to me about something that I actually saw. I'm not going to hijack the show. It's a very elaborate story.

And a good story. I won't deny it. And that I saw something that I can't describe in any other way than to say, well, it looked like Bigfoot. Where was this? This is at Green River State Park in Adair County.

Where? Adair County. I'm not sure. Is that north-south? South.

It's about 100 miles south if you're near Lake Cumberland. Okay. And Green River Lake is there. And, you know, I had been bouncing around getting back into the Bigfoot thing and the Kentucky Bigfoot website had current reports. This is what I always like to point out, is that the anecdotal evidence for Bigfoot is interesting, and it can be impressive, especially when it's not coming from investigators, because those people are all mostly crazy.

But just the average guy who walks out and sees something weird in the woods or hears a strange sound or things like that, those are interesting stories, and they go back a long way. And there was a story from nearby where we have a farm that was quite recent. Uh, it was in May and I was there in September and it was a woman who had been driving across a bridge, run away across this bridge. I knew exactly where the road was, where she said, I think I saw Bigfoot. She said, I was driving home from the veterinary hospital with a dog.

Uh, she said, as I was coming down the hill, I saw something large and dark start walking across the road. It was around five in the afternoon, so it wasn't dark. And she said it, she slowed down because this thing was kind of big. And, uh, it crossed the road into this one area, and as she got closer, she slowed down, and it walked back out into the middle of the road and stared at her. Really?

I've never heard that. And she said that it stood there literally swaying, which is a known kind of behavior. Yeah. Swaying and looking at her, and then turned and walked back into this area. I was like, that's cool, because that's real close to where we have a farm.

And so I started looking into the area and spending some time down there, and that's a long story. I left a cam up in the woods there. The interesting thing about the area where she'd seen it cross into was it was a pull-off on the side of the road, which was essentially had become a dump, and a lot of roadkill and taxidermy waste and dead deer had been thrown off in that area because I pulled off and was like, what the hell is this? Bone everywhere. It's like a bone bed.

And headless deer carcasses everywhere. And a really creepy, smelly place. And I thought, well, if there's something here, we already had some game cams. And I said, I'm going to hook a game cam up down on this trail that goes down to the river. And I was only going to leave it one night because it could be stolen.

People do walk down this path to fish. Yeah, a game can for anyone who lives in a city and doesn't know. Basically, it's a camouflaged box you can strap onto a tree. Yeah, it's a digital camera. And some of them have IR and other features.

And this was a cheap one. It had that. But I just put it up to say anything walking by that's of a sufficient height will set this thing off. And uh my family was marginally aware of why i was down there doing that and they were being polite and not calling me crazy and that's nice of them my mom knew that i was going to get up very early the next morning which was a sunday and collect the cam and get back because we had two family reunions to go to that day which are a big deal down in the country big extended families and I got up like crack of dawn, and it was like the foggiest day in the history of Adair County. It was like really socked in down there.

And she literally told me, she said, you know, if you go down there this morning, nothing good's going to happen. And I said, well, I've got to get my camera. And I drove down, and it was pitch black, heavy fog all the way down. I rolled up there on 730, collected the camera. There were a couple of shots on it you could tell had snapped. and was working my way back up this hill when I started hearing something move in the woods nearby.

But it's heavy fog, and it could be anything. It could be deer. It's just past sunup. And got up to the car, put it all away, stepped back, and smelled something really funky, which is your classic situation. And in this case, yes, it was big, wet, smelly dog.

And I almost laughed. I'm like, this is such a cliched situation. Why am I smelling this? But it was weird because I would smell it, and then I'd step up to the car, and I wouldn't. It was like very specifically in an area.

And I turned and looked off the road here, and it's right next to this big bridge, and the lake's right down there below, but you can't see any of that. It's all fogged up. And I saw something more or less kind of stand up near the tree line. And I'm just staring at this, and I'm like, okay, it looks like a man... And it's pretty far away.

It's about 80 feet in the fog. As I always say, it's in the fog. But it didn't look like it had a head, which is the weird part. I was like, why does this thing look headless? And the more I kind of looked at it, the more it looked like it had a head, but it was really low.

It was holding it really low. And the shoulders seemed very wide. And it was little more than a silhouette, but it definitely was weird looking. And it was moving along the tree lines. And I'm freaking out.

Because even though I'm there specifically to maybe spot something, I'm not prepared to actually spot something. You're ready to see Bigfoot 250 yards away through a pair of binoculars or something. And there were some other guys apparently out there fishing because they were apparently coming under the bridge, and they were talking and kind of laughing, and it was kind of loud. And when this whatever it was heard that, it kind of let out this odd, low, kind of bawling squall. That's what it's like, a calf, like, rawr!

And I just stepped back. And it started to move along the tree line in my direction. And it was freaking me out. I was getting pretty scared pretty fast. And some odd noises came out of it that didn't sound very human, you know.

They're impossible for me to imitate, really. But it really started to shake me up, and the smell got a lot worse. It's coming back! The smell got a lot worse, and I decided I've got to get out of here. It was like a raw panic, animal-like feeling.

I've got to leave. Like prey animal type stuff. And I did. I started to work around the car, and then another one of those noises erupted, and it almost just kind of doubled me over. I was just so scared that I was just almost non-coherent with that just and i remember bending over and almost feeling like i should just lie down on the ground here uh and it'll it'll go by me walk away or something and it made no sense i was like okay there's a monster coming towards me play possum.

That is a that is a very typical reaction as i so much so much so that a lot of people are now thinking that bigfoot whatever it is maybe produces this thing called a. Infrasound yeah and I used to say maybe, because I did feel all funny, but when you get all that adrenaline cooking and all that other stuff going on, you don't know what it is. But there was that awful feeling inside. And I'm thinking about, I've got a wife and kids. Why am I running around out here in the woods?

I got in the car, and it kept moving up. But I realized that it had stopped when I had gone around the car. I don't know if it could see me very well. It kept kind of bobbing. And the impression I got, whatever it was, was that it was old.

It was grayish looking and whitish looking. And it was old. And this is where the foolishness begins. Because I had a gun in the car. I had a pistol.

Which I always carry down there because we have coyote and everything. And normally I'd be walking around with this thing strapped on if I'm in the woods. But I just had it in the car. And I looked down and I saw this pistol. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to The window's down on that side.

I'm going to stick this pistol out, and I'm going to fire a couple shots. Not at it. I'm just going to fire a couple shots and see what happens. Because if it's a guy, it's going to say, whoa, don't shoot me. And if it's something else, I'm probably.

Just going to leave. Really fast. I did. I reached over, and I reached it out the window. It's a small.

357 snub nose. And I popped two shots off right at this dirt pile on the ground. And it just stopped. It didn't say anything. It didn't duck down or hide.

It just stopped, dead still, right where it was. And I said, okay, that's enough. And I brought the gun back in, and I can't remember if I was actually in reverse or not. I know I had to shift down to get it, because I'm leaving at this point. And I start to shift, and I push the shift button.

It's a Honda Element where the shifter's up high. And I squeezed the shot off inside the car. Oh, wow. And shot the console in the middle of the car. And it's deafening.

So it's like, I'm in a big metal box, and I just fired a. 357. Wow. So if it wasn't bad already, it was really. A lot worse.

It was like, fuck! And I just floored it and went down the road. If that had happened in a movie, the car would have exploded. It would have blown up. Lucky the gas tank's back there.

And I got down the road and turned around in this church lot, and I'm like, I just was utterly freaked out by how I was behaving. You know? It's like, I'm not normally like that. Drove back by, looked, nothing I could see. I could still smell.

And I ended up damaging the car. Long story after that. Yeah. But I ended up going back to the farmhouse and trying to try to convey what had happened to my mom, who was like, I told you something was going to happen, and my wife, who thought I was crazy. So much to say out of your saying there.

It sounds so right. I mean, it doesn't sound like it. Well, I didn't know about any of the infrasound stuff or anything, or freezing up, or any of that weirdness that occurs, until I talked to one guy who used to run a pretty good blog called Blog Squatcher. Okay. And he's the only guy I told.

I took months before I told anybody outside of family about that. I was going to say, I think the only people you told outside of family was me and Bob. It was a couple days after you came up to the theater just to tell. It was interesting. It was an interesting day.

And you know, so many skeptics will say to someone who claims to have seen. Bigfoot, why didn't you take a picture? You're right there. Why didn't you take a shot at it? It doesn't enter your mind at all.

And the guy asked me, well, you had the game cam there. And I'm like, well, yeah, I'm holding a game cam. I can get it to go off and shake it. And then I would have a great blurry photo of Bigfoot like everybody else. That's what he wants.

If that's what it was. I think that's. Why people that are so wanting to believe in Bigfoot, they will try to find any kind of scientific explanation for any consistent part of a Bigfoot story. And that whole. Infrasound thing is them trying to make sense of this very common report that you just seize up and you can't move and.

I call it like hitting the wall of no evidence there's no evidence so i've got a i gotta seize on a crazy idea yeah and it goes on constantly so that experience was kind of my ticket into the world of bigfoot culture gave me some i guess legitimacy in the eyes of some of these people but i got so scared by the world of bigfoot culture i'm out i'm observing i'm writing a book about aspects of that but But as it turns out, I started doing research after all that, and I was like, that area has a long history. That specific area has a very long history of strange things, sightings like 100 years worth that continue to this day. And so that's why I say, yeah, there's something I think out there. It has very little to do with the culture that surrounds it.

And I can't tell you exactly what it looked like. It had a dark face and long arms. It looked airy. I actually went to the Finding Bigfoot shooting when they did the Kentucky episode, which is just a terrible episode. For anyone who hasn't seen it, they actually went to a log cabin where they were on the porch playing banjo.

Oh, yeah, they had to have every cliche imaginable. And they know about my story. The producer knows about my story. There was a guy there, an amazing sighting that I found on the BFRO list, Very near where I was, in 1953, he and a friend were playing behind the house and they heard these knocking sounds and they turned around there's something behind the neighbor's house with a couple pieces of wood and it's like digging into the ground and turning over the ground trying to dig something out. It looked exactly like what I saw.

It's the same color. Gray and white and all this black face. I mean, it's 1953. And I talked to this guy and he's like, There was no such thing as Bigfoot in 1953, but my friend and I, it stood up and it kind of grinned at them, like a fear grin kind of look, and they took off. And it went back off to Green River.

All the areas nearby. I don't know if it's chimpanzees or a gorilla, but the facial expression that we would say looks like a smile is actually a gorilla. Is an aggressive or a fear girl. I believe it's chimpanzees. Okay.

It didn't make a sound. It just made this face at them and they were, they were gone. You know, um, for those who don't know who wouldn't be a Bigfoot Trekkie, you probably wouldn't know this, but the term Bigfoot became big in 1958 after a, uh, newspaper story in California got picked up by the Associated Press and it went all over the, the, uh, country and, Prior to that, people were seeing things, but there wasn't this overriding term, so they would give it little colloquial names. I almost find stories that take place before 1958 to be so much more interesting because now you see something hairy in the woods, you think it's Bigfoot. Prior to 1958, you didn't know what it was, and yet So many stories are so similar.

Yeah, that's why I look at the anecdotal stories and go, well, there's something there I think that's interesting. You know, Kentucky, they're really yahoos, and they have all kinds of names for them. In Kentucky, Trimble County has its fair share of just flat-out weird. I don't know if you've ever looked at any stuff in there. There's a lot of stuff, and they actually, in 1962, they referred to it as the Trimble County Beast, or essentially it was describing these big creatures, and I don't know, I just went up there and started to end up I went up actually want to talk to people about the Milton lizard, which was also called the Knip Creek monster.

And that was basically this reptilian lizard. I mean, they almost describe it kind of similar to like a Komodo dragon, but I mean, it was, it would walk on its hind legs and yeah, it was being cited all throughout that area in the seventies. It kind of, It was similar to the Loveland Frogman in its description. And I even kind of wondered, I was like, well, Loveland isn't that far separated by the river from Milton. I always kind of wondered if those two were linked.

But in 1962, they had the Trimble County Beast. In 1955, there was like an 80-pound barn cat that somebody shot that was going around eating cattle. And then in 1994, they had a UFO flap up there. And then in 2000, they had cattle mutilations, all in this one little county in this small town. in Kentucky, so it's just a very strange. Yeah, it's all very localized.

It's a very strange county. Green River. They'll probably start doing a festival now every year. It's like Mothman. Well, the funny thing, actually, like, the even weirder thing is most of those other people, like, they try to promote it, but when I went up there, like, everybody, it's like they try to keep all that stuff buried.

Even though all these weird things came up. And up there, they keep trying to just cover them over. Kentucky's a little different. They're very tight-lipped. I didn't try to talk to people down around where I was.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I tried to track down this woman who'd seen this thing on the road, and I knew she's in the vet's office. And they're like, yeah, they just don't want to talk. They know who she is, but they're not going to go into it.

But they're not like, well, we're not surprised about anything that might be living in that area. The Green River Lake is an artificial lake. It was flooded to make a lake. It was done in the late 60s. And a lot of the reports started after that period.

Like something got displaced or people have been seeing things. You pissed something. Off. But you go back and there are stories from the 50s. There are stories from the 70s.

There was a lot from the 70s. I looked in the local paper and it's all right around that area where I was. You are the perfect person for me to ask this. I think I know what the answer is. Are you all familiar with the TV show Monster Quest?

Oh yeah. The whole bit was they would they would study or look for a different monster every week. And of course, Bigfoot was like the second episode. But then they were like, oh crap, we're showing you the Bigfoot story, but we've already done the Bigfoot one. They kept thinking up different names for the same monster.

Like they had one, Sasquatch. The Grassman. And then in Ohio, they had the Grassman. It was a Bigfoot, but they called it the Grassman. I'd never heard of that term.

They had a Bumble Snowman, too. And then they did a Kentucky one, and they called it the Hillbilly Beast. Yeah, that was great. And all throughout this episode, every person that they were talking to, they kept saying Bigfoot, Bigfoot. But the freaking narrator kept saying the Hillbilly Beast, the Hillbilly Beast.

It's like they were trying to. Drive that people home. And I'm guessing in all your research, no one. Ever called it the hillbilly beast. Never, never, never.

It was in marketing. It's a Trimble County beast. It was printed as the beast in the paper. It has to be hillbilly beast. And then they had to do, this is another connection with us, they had to do the Fairdale Bigfoot.

Because right around the time I had my experience. I got a call from my wife in the morning. Did you hear about the Yeti in Fairdale? Did I ever. What?

She's like, there's like a Bigfoot in Fairdale. There's a picture and everything. It's all over the Internet. And it was all over the Internet. It was.

And I brought it up. And I was like, and it's over near the Jefferson Forest, which has had a couple of interesting reports. And I'm looking at this thing. I forgot all about that. That looks weird.

I honestly thought it was garbage cans. It looked too shiny. Or a garbage bag. Yeah. And at first I was like, are they trying to say that this is its back and it's sitting in a garden?

Or are they trying to say that this is its front and it's got these crazy long strands of hair? Have you guys seen this? The ones who aren't Bigfoot freaks? Just type in backyard. The other half of the table is just looking at us in terror.

These people are nuts. Like, what the hell is wrong with you? What it basically looks like is sort of like. From the waist up. You can't tell a damn thing in the photo.

And the guy who, you know, his game cam shot it and he said he'd been, something had been eating the beans in his garden and he wanted to capture that on film. Um, got it out there right away. But within an hour, I was looking at it, and a friend of mine was looking at it, and we're like, you know, that looks like a crow. It looks like a bird snapped in mid-flight. It's descending.

And we quickly found photos that looked just like it, and we started posting up on the Internet saying, I don't think the guy's trying to mislead anybody. It's just like, I think it's a crow. You never heard such violent reactions from bigfoot believers. They wanted to kill us, to hunt us down and kill us. And we're like, no, I really think it's a crow.

It's so bad. But that happened to be on the Kentucky episode. Because I remember I turned it on and I said, oh no, they're going to talk about the crowfoot. But they did debunk it on the show. So props to MonsterQuest.

It was a hell of a lot better show than Finding Bigfoot. Of course, you mentioned people having to believe, and I guess this will try to loop folks back in with the movie. I love Herzog's incident at Loch Ness. Because it starts off with this whole premise that he is going to do a documentary on why it is that things like Loch Ness and Bigfoot and all these other cryptids exist. It's like, why is it that we, as human beings, feel the need to believe in something like that?

And almost just, I'm like, that is actually a good question. I would like to see him do the legitimate documentary of that, even though the whole thing turns into like a mockumentary slash Blair Witch thing. It's a very funny movie. Very funny. But, yeah, it's the thing.

I mean, you know, I've had some odd experiences, and I'm very interested in the subject. Yet, when I got into the culture, I was horrified. I was horrified by the crazy people. I absolutely agree. In theory, I should love the Grateful Dead, but the culture turns me off.

It's one of those. It's the same thing. It's very much like a religious movement, and it's like you have to believe all or nothing as far as they're concerned. And they have certain articles of faith, and one of the big articles of faith is the Patterson footage. And I don't believe in the Patterson footage.

Oh, you don't? Patterson footage is like the book of Genesis or something. I think it's fascinating, but Roger Patterson was making a documentary. It's openly stated. I have his book, which predates his footage.

And he was openly making a Bigfoot documentary. Working with John Chambers, wasn't he? No, that's one of the big myths. They said, no, John wasn't involved. John was involved in another Bigfoot movie.

Minnesota Iceman. Okay, John, that's what I'm thinking. John didn't even do the Minnesota Iceman. It turns out it was another guy. But they've been throwing that up for years, and that's a myth that perpetuates too.

Bob Burns, Brick Baker, they all say John Chambers made that Bigfoot suit. No, he didn't. Roger Patterson made the Bigfoot suit. He was a very talented guy. He was an artist.

He was a saddle maker, a carpenter. And he was going to make, he was a believer, but he was going to make a Bigfoot documentary. And what I always ask true believers is like, okay, you admit he was going to make a Bigfoot documentary, and he had his buddies dressed up as Indians, and there were going to be flashbacks to the 1800s where they were telling their Bigfoot stories. And I was like, how many Bigfoot documentaries have you ever seen where they don't show Bigfoot? They always show Bigfoot.

They always get a guy in a suit. All these other people will keep saying, well. No, no, no. See, he set out to do one thing, and he ended up accidentally capturing this foot. No, he didn't.

He realized, you know, I don't have to finish the documentary if I just claim to have shot this creature walking across my path with my friend. And that's what they did. And I believe that the guy, Bob Hieronymus, his buddy, is in the suit. And I believe it's a decent suit that's filmed from far enough away in shaky 16mm. Yeah, with an old film stock.

Publicly, I have to agree with you. Privately, I'm still. Well, it's fine. And I'm fascinated with the Patterson footage, and I love Roger Patterson. I love him as a hoaxer or whatever.

I think he's a cool guy. He's an interesting man. But no, I don't believe that footage. And that's the best people can come up with when it comes to the footage, is that 1967... piece of footage. And that's an article of faith in Bigfoot.

If you start knocking that, they don't like you much. And I met some of the most rational people out there who still want to go for that footage. And I said, you know, I used to believe when I was a kid, but then I read about Patterson, and I read about how hard life was for him, and he was always looking for an angle. And he finally came up with a good one. And made some money.

And, you know, it became a big deal. I think with me, I'm so mad at this Scarty that Just to spite him, I'm going to say Patterson film is real. I'm so mad at Viscardi. Viscardi is like the lowest of the low, but, man, there are so many other bottom feeders. He's coming out with the DVD.

About his version of what happened. No, no, which is proving Patterson is a fake. Oh, okay. So just because he's doing that. It's funny.

He works the game from all angles. The guy who actually did the Bigfoot suit hoaxing, Rick Dyer, the guy from Georgia who I think was the cop. No, no, actually. It was a mad guy. Rick Dyer's out there basically being a professional asshole in the Bigfoot world.

He's always out there starting fights, and he's got his own website. I love his grainy YouTube videos. Yeah, just amazing stuff. When it comes to Bigfoot and just what I believe, I've always liked what John Keel sort of theorizes in the beginning of Mothman Prophecies when he's talking about tulpas. It's like these projections of the mind, and basically once they're seen by somebody else, They're then reinforced subconsciously by the mind.

He would talk about how Native Americans, when they'd be sitting around the campfire and that, when they would see these spiritual visions, it was actually something that they were doing that maybe you didn't understand how your brain was functional in operation. I said, really, if you accept the ability or if you accept the knowledge or the idea that that ability could exist, I mean, it pretty much loops in ghosts, UFOs, anything. Virtually anything, yeah. Virtually anything that can't be explained and there's not really that much evidence for is just this projection that's been reinforced by those who see it. Then Kiel takes it further to basically say those things take on a life of their own.

Yeah. Yeah. He calls them the ultra-terrestrials. If you saw Mothman Prophecies, which I thought was a really good movie, you'll see some of that going on. But then there's the whole Lauren Coleman take on it.

Why do you explain something unexplicable with something just as unexplicable? He really wants it to be just a flesh and blood. Just an ink. He's a pretty practical guy, but it's all flesh and blood. Let me ask the.

Three guys who aren't talking much. You just heard, which I think is a really great story from here. What do you guys think about, could it exist? Is it all? What do you guys think?

I think for us to say that we know everything is crazy. Mm-hmm. Every time, just when you look in the world of. Science, every time they have something closed off and explained or they get to the limit of what we believe. Is, this is the.

Smallest particle or this is the furthest we've seen in space or whatever, there's always that next step that, A lot of times people, you know, in the past, well, we'll explain that off by God or we'll explain that off by that doesn't. Exist or whatever. And, you know, I've been out in the woods enough, a lot of backpacking, a lot of, you know, five days in. You had peed off of mountains. Where you're truly in wilderness situations where you're not going to get out for days.

Right. Maybe witnessed and maybe heard things that, who knows? In South America, in Alaska, in the Southwest, all especially, you think, well, did. I witness something? Did I not?

And you just tell yourself, that was me. Just like you're walking up the stairs from your basement and you think, gosh, there could be a ghost down here. And then that's at the bottom of the step. And by the time you get to the top of the step. You've creeped yourself out.

It's behind you and about to pull you down the stairs. Yeah, you're moving a lot faster by the time you get to the top. You've created that whole image in your brain. You were rational at the bottom. You were completely irrational as you're coming up the landing.

Which is kind of like what you were saying. The John Keely, you picture it, suddenly it's real. Right, yeah. But at the same time. If you have a rational, credible person telling you a truly personal story, you've got to give them a lot of credit until you can just throw it out the door.

There's no reason not to believe him sitting across the table from me right now. Yes, it could be somebody in a suit. Yes, it could be it was foggy and who knows. But there's still a good chance that You have enough stories, corroborating stories, that you. Find out after the fact that why not?

There's other crazier things around. You say corroborating stories, and that's why I like stories that happened before 58. Because past 58... everybody kind of has an idea of what a Bigfoot is supposed to look like. Yeah, it's like after Roswell, all the aliens are described about the same. Everybody always points to the Patterson footage and says, that's what I saw.

And I'm like, I don't believe the Patterson footage. So if you have a bunch of reports that all sound pretty much the same and they happened before the 50s, that is something. If you're familiar with the Chapman story, the family... The what? The Chapmans.

It happened in the late 40s. I think they were out in California. But they were an. American Indian family living in a modern town. And for me, it's the most compelling story.

And it's... A woman's at home, or her husband worked for the railroad there. Oh, is this the. Stole the fish out of the... Yeah.

And then, you know, the son comes in. He's like, there's like this big cow or something coming down the hill through the field. And she goes and looks, and it's not a big cow. It's this big brown man-like thing. And it's coming... through the field towards the house and she starts to freak because she's an american indian she's heard these stories all of her life about these things and she gets the kids rounded up and she literally kind of threw a sheet around them to get them so they wouldn't see it and it wouldn't see them and they hustle out of the house towards the river and just go up the river because this thing was headed for the house well it went into the house apparently i mean they took the door down and left hair on the windowsill and all this stuff and apparently threw some things around, got out into the shed and there was a barrel of like salted fish out there and was able to tear the lid off this and eat some fish and throw it around and went off on its own.

And then her husband came home from work later and saw like the house is a mess. There's a barrel of fish busted open in the yard and there's footprints everywhere. Where's my family? And he found them in town. And, um, supposedly over the next two or three nights whatever it was was coming around and they heard it a lot but they didn't see it again and um it's just an interesting story nobody had anything to gain by telling this story um they had a lot to lose and as a matter of fact they did lose they had they had a real weird tragic life to where those three kids all drowned in a canoe accident and like the best Bigfoot book ever written, in my opinion, is Ivan Sanderson's Abominable Snowman, Legend Come to Life.

And it's sort of a global examination. But you're talking about something that was written in, like, 1961. And he actually managed to track them down and find them and interview them up in British Columbia. I think that's actually where they were. And was utterly convinced by it because she was talking about the color and talking about the sound that it made that was very odd, which he'd heard some other people talk about.

And. that's a really compelling story there's lots of anecdotal stories like that that. Are compelling i love native american stories because they they honestly tend to be very tight-lipped about. It yeah they don't talk about it and it always usually involves too they've heard these stories before it's like the forewarnings exist. And there's a difference between the the standard boogeyman tales like don't wander off from home, or it'll get you, and people actually seeing things. Well, you know, it's like in the Pacific Northwest, they got totem poles, and all of their totem poles are made with known.

Animals plus a Sasquatch. Yeah. To them, it was a known animal. To them, it's like, well, sure, it exists. You know, why wouldn't it?

Should we keep going? What do you think? Oh, do I believe that Sasquatch is real? Sure. No, but I have a highly overactive imagination.

And just hearing these stories, it just makes me realize, because I haven't genuinely, I'll be honest, I know this is ridiculous, but I'll go ahead and say it. When he was getting into that story earlier about the sighting and the. Fog, I heard the sound in the kitchen. I was like, did they set up something? And a big foot.

So I was like, that would be crazy. I was prepping for something to happen there for a couple of minutes. That's where Fred is. That incident is so odd. And like, I've had someone and it's just like, you don't know in the moment and it brings back that mystery and it makes you want to search.

So, I mean like the rational, you know, side of you is like, no, of course not. But like, you know, I've had instances like that. Like I'm, I remember one time at a, boy scout camp we had to uh i think it was wilderness survival i had to go out and make a shelter in the woods and you know out of stuff i've literally stuff i found on the ground and sleep overnight by myself in the woods well not by myself i had my friend when it was just us two and uh and like the troop that was like next to us and we had to help them too but uh I found like a piece of sheet metal for a roof and propped up against a tree. And that was my, that was my tent, quote unquote. And, uh, yeah, I was just woken up in the middle of the night by this awful, like just angry, like, like these, some, some kind of something like struggling with, like something was killing something.

And it was very loud. It was very close. Um, I didn't know what it was. And all of a sudden, like in for a good hour, like my mom was just thinking of all these possibilities. Like there's some monster in the, I was, I was like 13 years old.

I was old enough to realize that, you know, there's no such thing, all that. But in that hour, because like I was the only person awake and hearing this, it was surreal. It was like an out of body, like something is killing something. And I just didn't know what to, I know this is stupid, but it was just crazy. And then I woke up the next morning to find out that it was two coyotes fighting each other.

In the woods. That's what the scoutmaster said. He had heard it too. I was like, oh, I'd never heard that noise before. I'd never heard what a coyote sounds like.

But it was terrifying. It was like something out to kill me. And just moments like those, they get rarer and rarer. But it came out like when you're retelling your incident. And yeah, they get you.

Sure. I applaud that kind of attitude towards me telling it. Because if I tell that in a venue of true believers, it's very different. It becomes much more important. Than it should.

You should be rational about it. Always. In all honesty, after you came up and told me and Bob that, and then you left, we sat there for probably about an hour just debating as to exactly... It's like, why would he... We almost wondered if you were up to something.

Yeah. Because we've known you for so long, and it's like, you were very rational by nature. And we're also like, he fell into all the textbook cliches of it's like he had the camera, he had all this stuff, and it's like he comes away with no evidence. Nothing at all. And we were just sitting around like...

That was basically the topic of the debate. It's like, do we believe Dave? A friend in Nashville, John Davis, thought I was crazy. He thought I was losing it. John has had even weirder experiences.

Because the only thing we could think of is like, well, if he's making it up, then maybe... he just fucked up, dropped the gun, and blew the car radio out, but didn't want Janet to fuck him, so he made up a very elaborate story to pass it off. It was a few days later when I saw Janet. It was at Carl's funeral, because that happened right around that time. Just a couple weeks before that. And I saw her, and I said, so y'all just got back the car?

She's like, yep. So I heard the story about what happened to the radio, and she's like, I don't want to talk about it. My wife walked away that morning. She couldn't deal with it. That's how she deals with stress.

She has a very stressful job. You're more stressful. You could ask my mom about what I looked like and how I was acting. It's like I was in shock. That's what I think Janet said.

She just came in and started throwing up in the bathroom. I got sick far before that. I was sick. I was physically ill. Then I started looking up later in the day symptoms of shock.

I was in shock. because I had to ride back with my car with a car hauler I had to get it up to Lovett stop running I got it to the farm turned it off and then it would start because I had shot through the wiring harnesses and I had to call a car hauler and tell this hilarious lie to my insurance. Company there's not a there's not a box for them to check it was an accidental discharge in the car which it was an accidental discharge there. Was this you know air supply song on the radio and I hate air supply oh not. Again uh. And I had to sit there and just kind of deal with all that stuff as an aftermath, which was scarier, actually.

And there have been a lot of odd things since. If it was Bigfoot, you made the right move, and I think that last shot would have worn off anybody. I mean, even if it's Bigfoot, he's like, that guy is crazy. He just shot his own damn shot. I'm like, no, he should at least drop or scream or don't shoot, and nothing happened.

I was going to steal that car. I don't want it. This last movie with my friend Jim, um, cause he's essentially in a big fursuit and all this stuff. And that was like my, and it was really, it freaked me out because he came to me the day we were getting ready to shoot him in that costume out in the woods. I mean, we were going down into Hodgenville, Kentucky on this farm property.

And, um, as we were driving down there, you know, I did, we've got the costume, everything ready. He's like, Hey, I meant to tell you earlier, I had a really weird dream last night. I was like, really, what about it? He's like, about his filming tonight. I dreamed that I died.

I was like, don't say that. He's like, no, I had two. Because I had one dream to where I was just in a costume. And I started overheating. And I started suffocating.

And you were freaking out and trying to take all the makeup off. And you couldn't get it off in time. And then I died. And I had another one to where some farmer shot me. I'm like, dude, stop talking.

Stop saying this. Stop saying this. And then in the dream, you know, I was like in the woods and I went to this clearing and then there was Dave. On the other side. And I'm like, is that Dave?

And I'm sort of going back and forth and Dave starts shooting at me and it freaked me out. There's like some weird time warp going on there. It's like an episode of The Twilight Zone. That is the most credible and scary part of that story is. If it was a person, it's going to do something.

If it was Mattitude, it could start running. Yeah. But that it stands there. Yeah. Well, it literally kind of just froze in place.

Yeah, it's part of the reason that people say you don't see them is because they are the masters of camouflage. And part of being a master of camouflage is the ability to be stone. Still, you know, to not move. And, you know, if you just get some guy who's wearing, like, camouflage pants from, Bass Pro Shop. If you have him in the woods and you get back like 20 feet, it's kind of hard.

To see him. If it exists, it's like the woods. There's a t-shirt that says Bigfoot is world champion hide and seek player. It can be right there and you don't see it. That could also be evidence of it not being there at all.

People are inventing that. But I tend to think if it's what they say it is, if it's a co-evolved species, a hominid of some sort, we're its natural enemy. And it knows what a gun is. And it's just not going to move. That's another theory why they say you can't get a picture is because it sees you holding something metal or in your hand, and it's going to think, oh, that's just like those pioneers from 200 years ago who took a shot at me.

Screw this. I'm leaving. Well, that's why I love the Hammer film, Evolved Snowman, because the. Whole theory behind that is basically there. Are these– creatures where they're more intelligent than us and they're just basically waiting until we kill ourselves.

It's a brilliant movie. Abominable Snowman in the Himalayas. Peter Cushing and Forrest Tucker. That is the movie that Loren Coleman cites as his Boggy Creek, so to speak. It's Nigel Neal who did all the Quaker Mass movies.

It's black and white. It's a smart, slick movie. Maybe if you watch the Patterson film in black and white, you might. Hey, Brian, you haven't weighed in. What do you think?

I think the. I think I opened up a kettle of fish at this end. Nah, I'm fine with this. I like the story, and that's the thing. I think listening to that, it has that same element that when you hear any stories about the paranormal, because I'm listening to that, and there's that moment that you also have when somebody's telling a ghost story, or somebody's telling some crazy alien abduction story.

It's that moment of, things aren't responding the way they should. Like, if there were a ghost off in the distance, it would just stop and stand there. And, you know, it would also not make any sense for... If it was a person, they would run or they would do something. But, like, whatever the paranormal is that comes into play, you're always like, something's not right.

And things aren't going the way that they should be now. And I think that is kind of what is interesting about all of these things. And I won't... I don't know that I 100% believe specifics. On any of the paranormal stuff, but at the same time, much like Greg said, I think we don't know so much.

We think we do. We think we've got a handle on everything. But i think there's so many little loopholes out there in the in in genetics and uh in life and death and uh the outer space and wherever else you want to work into this that we just don't understand and maybe we'll never understand so i think there's always that doubt and i will always have that doubt that maybe there is something out there that we haven't seen. I mean, there's been plenty of cases before where we've come across things that, you know, we had never seen before, even evolutionary, you know, we'll say species are dead and, oh, look, this one turns up off, you know, this Island somewhere. So granted it was like 150 years ago, but they used to in Africa, there were, there were stories of this, of these ape, of these monster man creatures and, Nobody believed him until someone shot it, and they call it gorilla.

But that was a legendary beast. Yeah, it was very much treated that way. And there may be other species of great apes in Africa still that we don't know about. And, you know, what you were just saying, Brian, about how, you know, you're sitting here and you're listening to this story, and it's kind of, I think it, you know, Dave's story kind of grabbed us all in like a very, I should. Point out, we're sitting in a restaurant.

The lights are all on very, very brightly. We're next to a very busy road. A car is going by every few seconds. Right across from us is this hipster restaurant full of people. And we were still all kind of.

Spooked by Dave's... So imagine if we were around a campfire. I wouldn't go to sleep. It still works. It's a good story.

And the fact that I know you, like you were saying, I know how normal. In quotes. Yeah. But, you know, compared to most people and how level-headed you definitely are, I've known you a long time, too. And it's like, you're not one to make up stuff like that.

You're also not one to behave like that under any circumstance. No, and that was the part that upset me the most was my behavior. Yeah. It was not my rational behavior. It was not the behavior of me.

It was the behavior of something that was like a rabbit. Which made it. it sort of, you know, it sort of got exponential after a while, so I got so panicky. It made it credible for me, because just that irrational fear, it's like, the one time, you know, and that would be a whole different episode, so I won't go into it, but the one time where I was like, there's a lot of odd ghost stories surrounding the theater, and I've been kind of skeptical about that, but there was one story to where, I mean, it was involving me just sleeping there for the night, and Basically, I had, and I took me, I think you were the first person I told, and I'd kept it to myself for years. But it's something where basically it involved me having that same irrational fear, and I could totally understand because it was the same thing.

It's like, you know, there's no way, unless you've experienced it, there's no way to describe it, but it's just like, You become very primal and animalistic. It's that true fight-or-flight sort of thing. It's just the sheer territory where any logic or rational thought just goes out the window, and you're just. Something I bring up, and it's like I always look for it, because I've always been interested in this stuff, which a lot of people will look at that and say, well, that means you wanted this to happen, and no, I didn't. There is a sense you will get that you don't get under any other circumstances.

And that's a sense of otherness. That's how I describe it. It's like, that's not anything like me. And that almost applies in any of those scenarios. It's just weird.

And I've had that at one or two other events. It's like, that's not anything like me or anything related to me. And there's no other way to describe it. And it's like the hairs up on your neck. It's that primal.

Yeah, maybe it's in our DNA to not. be well. With things that aren't like us. That's not me. Here's something for everybody I'd like to ask. Would you guys want this to be found?

Would that, I don't know, ruin it in some way? I think that whatever it is, it's beyond the bullshit excuses of it being elusive. I think the populations are far smaller and far more spread out than people think or want to believe. we haven't found it so far. And even if they get some kind of weird hit on DNA, well, they still haven't found it. For me, I would actually be kind of saddened because then I feel like it would be exploited once it were actually like.

And it may not be... We may not be able to find it. And there may be some reason why we can't. I think it just changes it. In a way, it makes it sad only because it takes that mystery out of it.

That same thing that we were talking about earlier, that we're still kind of We need that almost as people. We need that element of something still out there for us to find. And every time we take one of these little things away and we pinpoint it and we go, here's the DNA and here's what it really is, it might be real and it might then have a scientific excuse, but a little piece of that myth dies and then, I don't know, I think we kind of still need. That out there. You know what it might be like?

It might be like the difference between... seeing star wars before there were there there were. Videotapes and then star wars after videotapes you know it's like i saw this great thing and i got this fuzzy photo when i swear it was awesome i'm trying to remember what it was like a nice callback i'm gonna. Recreate the scene with my figures hold on here's my chewy figure looks just like bigfoot hold on here's. Bobo calrissian reenact what happened. Han Solo shot a photo first.

This doesn't have anything to do with Bigfoot movies. Well, assuming it was Bigfoot... That's right, we were going to talk. About a movie. I forgot about that.

He didn't look anything like the one in the movie. Poor Greg sat through that horrible, horrible movie and he's like, Brian, maybe you should take that last hour and make it a. Whole separate podcast. This is his own episode. Why do you assume that I think that was a horrible movie?

We haven't gotten to that. But if you saw Bigfoot. Well, like Bigfoot. I have no evidence to prove that you thought it was a good movie, and I would be very skeptical if you did. So this has been a special edition of Movie Meltdown.

The Bigfoot myths and legends. I say we just leave it at this. What did you say about that Bigfoot movie? I mean, it was awful. Oh yeah, that thing, Alice Cooper?

It was terrible. I think you should make that a separate show, man. It is. With that, we will return next week. Same geek time, same geek feed.

Thanks for listening. Tell me who's to say you think that we'd have come this far looking back on yesterday because you hadn't seen sun you tend to disbelieve though you've never known death When someone dies you grieve Though you've. Never seen the good Lord There's ones that worship Him each day You'll. Find them in the chapels. And all they.

Need is to pray What's. It take to be a believer? Tell me who's to say. You'd think that we'd have come this far Looking back. On yesterday guitar solo.

If someone long ago hadn't thought we could fly We'd have never gone above the trees We'd have never reached the skies Are there no new surprises? Have we finally learned it all? Could something really be here that we've never found before? What's it take to be a believer? Tell me who's to say.

You'd think that we'd have. Come this far looking back on yesterday. What's it take to be a believer? Tell me who's the same You'd think that we'd have come this far Looking back on yesterday. So much of that stuff that they're passing off as Bigfoot noise on the internet is just a bunch of city boys out in the woods.

They don't know what they're hearing. What's the video of? That footage I was talking about. It's just this weird noise in the distance. Scroll up.

Noises. Noises in the woods. I don't turn. It all the way up because it's in the background. Growl.

Sasquatch! Wrong direction. What the hell is that? The real Sasquatch. What is that?

This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by the Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by the Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard!