Fighting Deadly Nostalgia

This is Fred Decker, director of the Monster Squad, and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. It's showtime. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power.

It is also tradition that times must and always do change, my friend. What's up and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian and joining me once again is. Sam? Question mark?

I don't know. I never really know when I talk to you. There's a lot of schizophrenia that goes on in your household. That's right. But if you were here last time, sorry, I don't know what else to tell you.

You already know our rambling got out of control, so we had to just roll it on into a whole next recession. So here we are, wave two, back in action. Boom. So we were discussing how the system's falling apart. Yeah.

But I'm also of the problem, perhaps, because that's the thing. I was like, I try as much as we were discussing last time how nobody wants to go to movie theaters anymore. And, you know, the whole theater system and the specialness of that process isn't really a thing most of the time. i'm and i'm one of those people it's like i get that i grew up with that and i still have like a weird nostalgic place in my heart for it but it's transferred over to just in general because i'm the kind of person who has an entire collection of plastic knockoff popcorn buckets that that look like old-timey vintage popcorn buckets Or big ceramic ones that you're supposed to eat your popcorn with at home instead. Like I got to the point of being a nostalgic enough dork that I was getting like, well, I need this one because it looks different than this one.

So now I'm nostalgic for the old timey popcorn that I got in an old timey theater. Then I don't go to it. So it's like I... have a weird appreciation for the concept of it. Right. But I'm also the same practical person that's like, but I kind of just want to sit at home and watch this movie because that's a lot easier.

Oh my God. And I can only go certain times at a specific theater of experience. And I have to go like, I have to clear it out. I don't do anything during the week. It's like, I have to clear out a weekend and then I have to go in the middle of the day.

Otherwise I'll just fall asleep because I'm an old man. Absolutely. But, Then also like, well, other weeks I have other stuff I'm doing then. So that means I'm canceling everything to go here. And that's the only thing I can do all day, which again is awesome. a good thing to one extent because you're focused on that, but it also means all that other stuff I was going to get done.

Doesn't happen. No, there's a practical aspect of like, or I could watch this movie that's sitting on my shelf over here whenever I feel like it and still get stuff done at that time during the day that I want to go do stuff. So like, I get it. Like I get both ends of it. I am nostalgic for the old way.

I do still try to treat the experience as a special thing, but, but I also see the practical end of, but I got stuff to do right now. And then later tonight at 10 o'clock, when I want to watch this movie, I can watch this movie. And then when I fall asleep, I can pause it and turn it back on when I want to. So like, there's so many practical things that come into play that like, I get it. Like I, I'm not so removed.

Cause I feel like there is something about that with this generation that we've been talking about last episode, like the old people, that like we're set in their ways of the thing. There is almost like a, a deadly version of that, that like these guys have gotten so nostalgic that they, cause I know, well, I mean, there's someone I know and, and grew up around and like, when I see their stuff and it's usually just online, that's how we all see our presentation of who we are. And when I see them post stuff online, it's so nostalgic that I feel like they're almost sad that like, this isn't the way it is anymore. And that means I'm just a sad old man that lives in now times, but I wish I could live in the old.

And I'm like, I'm an old man, but I don't do that. Like, I'm still like, yes, I'm nostalgic for this thing or this movie or this specific thing that I enjoyed then, but I'm happy living where I am. I'm still enjoying the modern advantages of being in the year that I am now. I'm like, I don't want to time travel back to the olden days because there's a lot of other things that weren't great then too. So I can't do that one.

And two, it's not like it was a perfect time. So it's like, I don't get that... like distracted, like detached version of nostalgia. That's like, I want to live in the past. I don't have that. Like I, but I see that a lot with guys and maybe girls too, but mostly all the people I know of that have that syndrome almost is like they're old guys and they're just like, they'll constantly be posted about here's this thing and it was awesome.

And these ways were the best. And I'm like, and, and it's also all they ever posted stuff from 50 years ago. You know, it's not like, Hey, here's this new album I just picked up. It's awesome. Like, do you have nothing up today?

Like as old man that I am, like I do still watch current things and listen to music that the darn kids are listening to today. And like, I feel like I'm not dead yet. I'm, you know, I'm pretty close, but like, I try to at least function as a, as a modern day human being. And like, I think there's a deadly version of nostalgia that sets in on people that like is unhealthy. And I don't want to get to that point.

So it's like, I try to appreciate it, but I don't want to go down that road. Absolutely. I agree. I agree. I mean, that kind of like toxic nostalgia.

I mean, because really, you just don't remember how shitty things were. All right. I mean, I kind of do. That's why I don't want to go back. Yeah, absolutely.

I'm like, there are many other things about my life at that point that were not good. And they're still not good now, but it's a different version of it. Right. Right. I would not go back. uh and and relive the 90s for any amount of money you know i mean it's just it's just uh that was uh not not not uh great times just mentally you know and uh you know so uh please please no no thank you no thank you i much rather thank you i much in the words of dio no no thank you right right i'm just i like quoting droids at this point yeah yeah right okay okay see that Yeah, exactly.

Those are sort of early signs of a bigger problem. Yeah, probably. These are my only friends. What do you want? As I mentioned, it's empty now, too.

It's not just the olden days. It's also empty and hollow now, but I find new things to try, sadly, to fill it with. No, please, please. I really... I'm watching this documentary...

Old man talking about a documentary. What? I watched this documentary about the actual age of the universe. And I was going like, you know what? We're not here long enough to really get old.

I mean, you know, I mean, in human terms, you know, yeah. Old man, young man, kid. We're a flip on the screen. Not even a, a pixel of static on a sea of snow after the, after they've stopped, you know, broadcasting. Yep.

Yep. I mean, it's just like one pixel in and out, you know, and everything. So, you know, it's, it's amazing. Just, well, it's just amazing how the world changes within a lifetime, you know? And so, especially now, like, yeah, the further we get, the quicker everything changed.

Like, If you go back to like the bronze age, I bet like not a whole lot changed in the entire span of someone's old age of 38. If they made it that long, that ancient person that made it to 38 was just like, you know, in my day, ah, shit, it was all the same, whatever. I'm lucky I've got. A piece of bronze to murder this person over here with. That's all I got, man.

So I feel like, a long time in history it didn't change all that much you'd have like one new thing might show up in a generation and that was it and it made it just you know distinct change and things from that point changed a little but you know it's only in these last like 30 years or something that we were like oh no every five minutes is a new thing everything's gonna change every 15 minutes or so and the entire society is going to shift and become a whole new weird thing and if you don't like it give it a minute there'll be a whole new weird thing you don't. Like So, so yeah, yeah. Like this toxic nostalgia that, that, you know, people are like, Oh, Oh, you know, just things aren't as good as they used to be.

They really just didn't take a good enough notes on what they were actually going through at that time. Um, you know, or really do you, do you want to want to be the ones people that peaked in high school, you know, and, uh, you know, uh. It's even younger for some of them, like I'm posting stuff about when they were little kids and I'm just like, I don't want to be that little kid. Like that little kid had a sucky, like, and not without people trying, like there was, right. It was just people, not everybody's memories of childhood are just like this golden era that, you know, everything was simple and easy, you know?

So, yeah, I mean, being a kid sucked, so I don't want to go through that again. And like, not that it doesn't suck now, but at least once you get older, like you have, I don't know that any of us have wisdom for real, but you at least have perspective. Perspective. picked up some stuff over the years and you find you found whatever your crutch is to get you through it's just you become okay with a certain window of things that you can do to get through a day and that yeah i don't know like i think people just forget that you didn't even have that as a kid you were just thrown to the wolves and like okay figure out life go for it i'm just like no No, I was like, I don't want that. I don't want to be nostalgic for that bullshit.

I can pick out like the things along the way. I was like, Hey, remember when you watched DT? That was cool. Okay. Well, you can still watch that now.

You don't have to go back to 1982. You can, I have these videos sitting next to me. I can watch whatever the hell I want, no matter how old it is. So I don't know. People just get nostalgic for the wrong aspects of things.

I feel like. I think so too. I think so too. Yeah. It's, it's cool.

It's interesting seeing nostalgia kicking in on my oldest kid. She's like, Oh man, I remembered this from 2010. And I was like, Oh, what? Three minutes ago. Yeah.

I was going to say that's not even, not even like, nevermind. Oh, that was 13 years ago. See, that's what I don't think about. Like, I still think of the two thousands as the modern times. I'm like, Oh no, wait, that was 23 years ago when this happened.

Like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's, there's, you don't remember.

Here's, here's a perfect example. All right. They brought back here in Atlanta. There was a radio station called 99 X and it played all the indie or, or like, you know, alt rock. It was the alt rock station back when there was alt rock.

So I would be listening to that back. In the day. Everybody listened to 99 X and you know, it was like 88.5, which was the Georgia state radio and 99 X was the bank, the corporate. radio station but you know you know anyway so you go like uh then you know music changes over time and then you know uh it goes through and then you go like oh they just don't make music they used to anyway but then uh and then uh what's my god they they recently they brought back 99x here in atlanta and you're going like oh good i can listen to radio again and uh and then i realized uh i liked what i liked of the era but i had forgotten all the other stuff i'd forgotten how much i hated dave matthews band and uh yeah.

That was one that did not creep in on me i like a lot of stuff that other people consider crap but i did not go down the dave matthews road And. I was like, thank you for bringing back 99 X and reigniting this hatred I have for that band. I assume it was bought by that Twitter guy. Like I'm making everything X coming back. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's good. So there's good. So, so once you, if you really were put back in that era, you forgot all the times that the movie theater brain wrapped and broke halfway through focus was bad. Sometimes there would be a wobble in the, you don't, you don't, you don't remember all that.

Or you forget that you used to sit level and like the person in front of you was blocking the screen. Like I went to an older theater lately. I was like, oh, I forgot about this. I can't see half of this screen. Right, right.

You're like always the big tall person sitting in the middle of it. Yeah, they always sit directly in front of you. And I'm just like, this is why we came up with Stadium C. You can actually see the screen. So some improvements are actually an improvement.

Right. The fact that you have a cushy recliner that lifts your legs. And so you're just like basically... you're basically at home in the movies. Yeah. Can you imagine if you went back in time and kidnapped that little kid in 1982 and then showed them this thing that you're sitting in now, your perfect view of the screen and you're taking a nap in a recliner and you got a cup holder built in and you didn't even have that.

You used to sit your drink on the damn floor. Right. Right. Next to the sticky popcorn. You sat your drink there.

Right this is i have not thought about that exactly it's what. I'm saying it's a whole nother world now and people don't remember you people would walk by and kick your damn rake over. Because it's on the floor it's all on the floor right right yeah yeah no no it's different it's different and that's an improvement i would say though the the The last, not the last, what kind of turned me away from going to the movies was I went to go see the Shyamalan knock on the cabin door movie. I've heard of it. Yeah, sure.

You talked it on the show, I think. Somebody saw it. They were telling me about it. I still haven't gotten around to it. I'm fine.

I'll watch it eventually. It's fine. It's not going to change your life. But yeah, we went to go see that. And it was a fine movie.

But just the experience. I was going like, I feel like the screen is bigger on my sheet at home. Because I'm so far away. And the sound is not right. You know, the sound ain't good.

You become a real snob of sound when you can't hear as well. And you can't see as well. Let me turn up my hearing aid. Hold on. Get out my spectacles.

I mean, I'm just saying, I'm just saying the theater experience isn't what it used to be. I'm just saying I'm better than them is what you're saying. I'm just, no, I'm just exactly. I'm better is what I'm saying. I'm better.

I have refined taste and films should be, you know, performed. It's shown at as high as a thing available. But then I went to go see Spider-Verse 2 and saw that in a different theater chain. And the experience was amazing. So I was just like, man, there's certain things you should see in a theater, certain things you can probably see at home.

But I mean, really, if you see it at home, it's fine because all the other things are good. Yeah, a lot of things are fine at home. Again, I have... appreciation for the theater there I still want to go sometimes just not every weekend but I'm still gonna be watching movies every weekend so it's like I'm gonna sit at home and watch whatever the hell I want and I'm not going to worry about it. Like, again, people get so up in arms about it. It's like, you shouldn't do that.

You know, they get so one way about it all. I'm just like, eh, I'm going to watch what I want to watch where I want to watch it. Like, I appreciate the freedom we have now to kind of do what we want to do and kind of create your own little, like, I like movies or I'm going to watch a streaming service. I like, you know, sitting here having my coffee, watching at home, or I want to go to the theater and get fancy popcorn that probably costs too much. Right.

Right. I don't know. Like, I like that you can kind of pick and choose and do whatever the hell you want. There's options. There's options.

And there used to be, there used to be two options. It was like broadcast television, which looked like crap. And I watched that too. Watched it. When I think.

Back of, I still have, speaking of old timey nostalgia, the opening themes to your like Sunday night movie of the week. Like I love those. And like, that's the thing, because as a kid that was watching movies to me, like, you know, it's like when I was geared up to watch the Poseidon adventure, it was going to come on Sunday night and it was going to be the movie of the week. And it was going to be interrupted by commercial edit stuff out of it. And like, there's all this crap that was like a downside. but to me that was still watching a movie and I was excited.

Right. And like that, that, you know, I was just glad to get what I had. So we just readjust as we go. And like, now I can watch it unedited. I can pause when I want to.

I couldn't do that for TV either. Yeah. I can make whatever snacks I want at home. Like, you know, there's aspects to it that have changed, but there's new good things that came along with it. So it's just, I don't know.

I like pick and choose and watch what you want to watch the way you want to watch it. Honestly, it's never been better. But honestly, come on, guys. It's never been better. It's never been better, especially over at his house.

You should totally go to his house, except he doesn't want you there. But it's a way better movie. If I wanted to watch a movie with people, I would go to a movie theater. He's a weird antisocial dude. He doesn't want you over at his house.

But if you were there, you'd be like, this is so much better. Right, right. I'm constantly just trying to force my taste in movies on people. on my kids. And sometimes it takes, no, thank you. No, thank you.

I'll wait for this guy to react to it. But, but what, anyway, so this all leads to this Barbie, Barbie, Barbie, what are they calling it? Barbageddon. Barbageddon. I'm just going to call it Barbageddon.

Oppenheimer, Barbenheimer. Barbenheimer. Barbenheimer Smith. I don't know what, I mean, they have to write something. That's my name too.

Yeah, right, right. They, you know, people have to write something. So, you know, the headline Barbenheimer, but I would say that in my household, For the first time, I can remember, you know, people talking about movies that they're excited to go see. All right. And people don't get that much.

Yeah. No, no. I did have the experience where people talking about movies at work. not so often they'll occasionally bring something up. They'll, they'll talk about like a star Wars series or something like, or game of Thrones or something like that, you know, but they don't really talk about being excited to go and see a movie at the movies. And so this was interesting.

I was going like, Barbie is the thing that's going to save the movies or something like that. I'm like Barbie. It isn't, especially when you first saw that they were making a Barbie movie. I was like, Ooh, I mean, I've seen a lot of those straight to video things they made back in the day and they were pretty scary. I hope they do a good job.

You know, I saw they got better as we brought in a director and we brought in the cast. It was like, all right, promising at least. But I still did not expect that response that we all got. Definitely not. Definitely not.

And and, you know, no, I mean, I wasn't I'm. I'm not a girl and I wasn't raised with that weird social thing of Barbie ism and whatever it is, you know, and every, every girl who's ever lived probably had a Barbie, you know, and I get that. So there is one at least. Yeah. You're issued.

It's like, you know, like your rifle and full metal jacket, you know, this is my Barbie. There are many like that, but this is mine. And she has the most awesome outfit. You other girls outfits are lame. Clothing the barbie is like uh.

Mine has the best detail right exactly yeah yeah exactly so so so there's that you know and even if you just tore. The heads all the barbies and they were like you know i do like. That what i've seen is there is a jacked up barbie played by and it's the perfect actress to be the jacked up barbie so i do like uh what's her name from the news. Clusters oh okay cool cool cool oh is it the wig No, the other one. Oh, the other SNL.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's good. Who else would play the jacked up Barbie? Yeah, that's awesome.

That's awesome. What I've seen of her, she looks genius as, you know, most of her insane characters from SNL. It looks like one of those only brought to the big screen. Yeah. Yeah.

Some of my youngest daughter's Barbies ended up looking like serial killer art, you know, so that was a. So, yeah, that needed to be addressed. So I think just the fact that so, you know, I had that movie come out in the 90s or have been like treated like a Flintstone movie or something like that. Oh, most definitely. You know, so we had a lot of that trying to capture a pop culture phenomenon and then turn it into a cheesy movie.

Like we did it with every like sitcom that we then made into a feature film and like for every Brady Bunch movie that kind of got it and found a way to do it in a weird, interesting way. There's a million other Flintstones and every other one that missed the mark. And nobody showed up for it. They just watched it and was like, what is this? You didn't even, you didn't make the show I used to like, but you didn't make a good new movie either.

So what are we going for? Right. Right. It was just, you know, we're going for a happy meal commercial. Yeah.

And, and it misses the mark even for that. Right. Right. Right. And so, so, you know, the fact that all these people were excited about it and they, There's the social media aspect about it, about dressing up and then taking your Instagrams as you go see this movie.

That's an unusual thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when my eldest went, they went and they bought out like a row, you know, everybody just bought the ticket and you got to pre-buy them.

So they just bought their row of seats, you know, and I'm going like, how, how does my kid know that many people? anyway. So, um, my kid. Yeah. I failed. I failed.

I only know three people in the whole. Right. Exactly. How are you? How are you doing this?

Um, cause we did not give you those tools, um, to do this. Uh, so anyway, but it was a big deal to go as a group and dress up. And it's kind of like a Rocky horror kind of excitement about it, about going and making a scene, uh, and being at the scene and dressing up to do the scene and being part of a pop culture event. And I was going like, how did Barbie become that? And it seems like just such a throwaway commercial cash-in for this IP that has name value.

It totally worked for... I think it worked for adults. My youngest daughter went to go see it with my wife and she didn't really enjoy it because I think it's kind of like got adult references. It's a little too smart for its own good. Maybe.

Right. Anyway, we got this indie cool indie director and everything to make it. Again, she's not going to make the straight to video 90s thing that was like Barbie going, let's exercise. Right, right. Exactly.

Barbie and the fairy kingdom and stuff. Yeah. I saw a lot of those. Right. Not on purpose.

We would put them in at work. Sure. And every time I'd just look up and go, what is this? Like, it just didn't make sense to my brain. Right.

And that's my messed up brain. But even that, like, it was a different breed and it was cute. gearing it for kids and like it wasn't trying very. Hard it was no no it's movement. Some new barbies that you can buy next season yeah yeah you know it's. Like land before time sequels you know yeah and it's just barely barely a cartoon you know.

Cartoon and we're gonna put some songs in and you're not really gonna remember them but their songs all. Right the worst songs the worst songs oh my gosh um so yeah so it was it was interesting to see, you know, like Barbie, like, like taking over, like everybody's, uh, and people being excited about seeing a movie. And then, you know, so I, I, I'm more fascinated about that than like Oppenheimer, which, you know, so much of the marketing. Was just such an uplifting story. Right.

Right. Right. The tale of blowing up. Right. Right.

Basically how, humanity invented its own destruction, you know? Uh, so, so that's good at that. Fantastic. Let's go sit three hours. Uh, but, but the marketing was like, you know, this is an important movie to see in the theater.

But what was interesting was, you know, I had people excited, uh, to see that, you know, and, uh, sometimes the same people, sometimes the same people, they. Kept interviewing people on TV and they were like, we're going to do both today. Like they were back to. Back going to see one. And then the other, I was like, That is a weird day of programming.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you probably got like, uh, uh, a 100 minute Barbie fantasy movie with a kind of a sarcastic sense of humor. And then you got Oppenheimer, which is three hours of the weightiest.

Oh my gosh. I was going to say the one thing that I don't miss about going to the movie theater is the, I went to, you go see a movie at 12 and then you come out at three, like hung over and disoriented. And you're looking at the sun, like what is happening? You're just kind of like hung over for the rest of the day. You know, well and that's that is one of those things like the handful of times now when i do set aside a whole day and i'm like okay i'm gonna go but even that theater has like tinted windows yeah so i'll walk out and i'm like what is it like seven o'clock like what time oh it's 3 30 i can't my brain is messed up so i don't know what time it is i look outside i can't see what time it is because it looks like it's night already yeah it's like this is the most disorienting world that i visit every once in a while Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like upside down world. It's like coming out of the matrix and you're just kind of like, you're like so disoriented. You're going like, well, really the brist of my day is shot because it's going to take me the all day just to get over the, whatever this.

That's what I was saying before. That's one of the things that I spread them out a little bit because I'm like, I've got other stuff I want to do. That's also enjoyable. Like I don't want to kill what I'm doing other days just to do that every time. Like I love watching movies, but like, occasionally I know it's weird coming from me.

Occasionally I want to go do other stuff. I mean, I don't have much, but every once in a while I'm like, I just want to go here and do this for a day. It's just, you really have to adjust that. when you know you're going all in for the movie theater experience you just. Gotta expect you might be garbage the rest of the day um because hey you've just drank like a gallon of soda you've just carved out and buttered out and salted out for like you know more than you do and plus you know you've sugared yourself up you've caffeine yourself out you you you know ate like two hours worth of junk food. But luckily I've lifted my spirits with Oppenheimer.

Joy right yeah exactly and you know it's always i think everett said would a documentary about the same subject be better you know depends on who's making it i'd say right right right that's true that's true so so you know nolan is seen as like the uh savior of cinema, but I mean, you know, but it was really Barbie came in. And so, I mean, came in and got people back, not just film snobs or history nuts. Especially when you brought up the, the experience. Cause that's, once you started talking about that, I was like, when's the last time that's happened? Like people want to be part of the whole scene, not just go to see the movie.

I was like, right. You know, even in the olden days, like there were lines wrapped around the corner, but people weren't that invested really. They just stand in line a long time. So it's like it, and maybe that came with this next couple of generations. It's like, it wasn't necessarily the, the people standing in line to see star Wars in 77, you know, it's like, it was like, the dorks in 99 that went to see the Phantom Menace were dressed up where, you know, creating their own little communities out in the lobby.

Like it became a whole thing. Yeah. Which is funny that it backfired because it's the movie that so many people didn't like, but it was like that because that didn't carry over. Like you saw maybe a few people show up in costume for the next two movies, but it was not that community again. ever really like even when the in the sequel era came back like nothing like that happened again i was trying to think outside of like phantom menace era maybe the harry potter kids like those kids got super deep into it and like they created experiences and camped out and like came in costume and brought wands and like we're running around the lobby you know it's like that was Cause even, you know, the weird, I was thinking this lately, I forgot about what the impact of twilight was when it happened, but it was just popular.

It wasn't that kind of immersive experience where Harry Potter was. It really was. So that's, I mean, that's, I'm sure there's other sort of, you know, versions over the years, but those were the only like big peaks I can think of really that were like kids got super excited about the thing again, you know, it's like it wanted to be part of the scene and created a community built around it. Right. That's so rare at this point that, yeah, it's like Barbie, who would have seen that in the next one?

There's no predicting that. I mean, that's just really bizarre. I mean, it looked like from the trailer, like, like, like they tried that it had good production values, but I mean, everything has good production values. At this point, if you're a studio movie, it's, I mean, you almost have to go out of your way to make it look bad, you know? Yeah, pretty much like those Halloween movies we're talking about.

I mean, you know, low budget horror films now look like, you know, uh, Terrence Malick films. Yeah. I mean, it's just phenomenal when you hire yourself a good cinematographer and you've got a, fancy digital camera and like everything looks good. Yeah. I think it's just all a preset.

Now you just hit like amazing film. Look, and even when it does it, you've got six months afterwards to fix everything in post and you can do it because it's digital. Like you can actually go in, you can change colors. You can remove people sometimes. Like you can change everything about it after the fact that didn't used to be a thing either.

So yeah, yeah it's such a process you can create kind of whatever you want so then it falls back on you know the writer or the director of like well what are you gonna do now that you have this freedom to do anything can you do anything not everybody. Can not everybody can but hey i can. Yeah that's the next area you're gonna have. To hit that's the next thing so so yeah so So, you know, like with Photoshop now, you just type in put UFO in sky and then you just adjust it and it just does it all for you, you know? And my kids, I don't think... have written anything since jet chief gpd came out and just said there's a computer right about uh of mice and men you know i don't even understand.

How it does that like the visual creating makes a little more sense in my brain but the words coming out and making sense like the levels of it having to know how a human brain works to be able to do that is a. Little creepy yeah yeah and and you know it's not like they're, it's not like well-written. I mean, it's real, like, you know, kind of basic, you know, it's a step up from what they were taught. It's a step up from what they're able. To, I don't want to think back on what I was writing.

Oh my gosh. Oh, geez. What? Talk about tangents. Jeez.

So yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, so AI, you know, So, I mean, I guess that's what part of the strike is about, you know, and there's that movie. Oh, the first new episode of Black Mirror was just about licensing your likeness for a digital projection and to a show. And so, you know, digital, digital likenesses of people. And that's the one that's kind of scary, really.

Yeah, that you especially if you were a performer and it's like, OK, I'm living off of going and showing up for this thing and standing in front of a camera and creating a character and a role and. So when they can scan you once and be done with you and like put you into whatever they want forever, like that's as a performer, that's pretty scary. Yeah. That's weird. Right.

It's weird. Legally could do that. Like if you sign the document, when you sign up for it and like, there are desperate actors out there that are barely getting by that would probably do it just because they need that immediate paycheck in their hand. Right. But then long-term you're screwed because they don't need you anymore.

Right. Can plug you in wherever they want with the computer after that. Yeah. Yeah. So, so you got, you know, fake, not even the actor, you know.

A computer writing everything for you. The computer writing the dialogue based on, you know, latest test market research. So no, no complaining writers about how they were supposed to be the next Steinbeck, you know, and now they're, now they're making a Barbie too, you know, Or Sonic the Hedgehog, you know, seven or whatever. Right. Right.

And so so you don't have to deal with that anymore. And then, you know, with, you know, and so it's all basically a cartoon, a photorealistic cartoon, you know, computer make me and make me 90 minute with this script, you know, style of filming, you know, Sam Raimi or whatever, you know. And it just puts it all together. And so then you tweak it where, you know, the algorithm got confused and then you put it out and it, you know, you just made a feature film and, you know, you know, a weekend and just goes on to the pyre of all the other content that is constantly as, as AI just gets better and stops making just like YouTubes of presidents eating spaghetti, but actual, you know, narrative stories.

And then, so like the product is just going to be so awesome. overwhelming and you don't know if it was a person or a computer or an AI or what, you know, what was, is anything. And so there's going to be a whole generation of people who don't care, but I think there's going to be a whole, I think there's going to be a group of people like seeing my daughter appreciate physical media. I go like, I think like live events and actually seeing somebody with your own eyes, do something in reality that I think that's going to become a premium kind of experience. It is like, again, when we were before, I guess by now, probably back to the last episode, when we were talking about like physical things going on, that was one of the ones I was going to mention that like of, of like seeing going out to see, you know, movies and stuff.

But I was like the thing that is so huge now. And the thing that I can't do because it's so huge now, like even on the media, on the, on the news, local news does almost nothing but, talk about the new concerts that are coming to town. Right. And I'm like, those tickets are like $ 150. If you're in the cheap seats.

Exactly. Cause they were the biggest tours in the world that were making a stop here. And I'm just like, I can't do that. Financially speaking, I can't do that. And I've seen some before when they were a little cheaper and I'm like, it's weird because it is to some extent they're there physically in the room, but they're also so far away.

You're still watching it on a screen. Yeah. Be able to see what they're doing. So I'm like, are we fixing it? Well, it's sitting in a public place, watching a screen. to see a person who came to this town to see you, but they can't see you because there's too many people and they're so far away.

But thankfully you paid $ 300 for these fancy seats. You got to say, you got to say it's worth it because that's actually them and not a digital character. It's like, you're basically saying like, it's, I'm going to spend 10 times what I guess I could just listen to this album at home and it'd be perfect. But for me to actually see something that, a person do what they're good at. And I know it's actually them, not some weird deep fake of something.

It's going to be, I think people, I, okay. So this sounds like crazy old man, but it's just going to like, it's going to like, how are you going to know what, what online, what is real and what is not. And I think this, the technology has gotten to the point where you're not going to know. And so, it's like personal visceral experience is going to become like the, the, the hot new fat. Well, I mean, you really can't tell a lot of stuff anymore because that's what, especially like when you get stuff that's streaming on your social medias and, Someone forced me to get TikTok because they kept going, I'm going to send this thing to you.

And then like they send a few and like most people, then they don't care. And so now I've got this on my stupid phone and they never send anything anymore. So now every once in a while it tells me, oh, this new thing is there and I'll open it up. I'll be like, what the hell is this? So I'm already so annoyed with the way, first of all, just the way it functions as an app.

I think it's terrible the way it's set up. on many levels that I won't even bother going into old man rant on that. But it's funny that the other day, like the other day I couldn't, like I was getting the same things because it's on my algorithm and I will not go down what road that is. But I was like almost testing the algorithm. I was like, and then see what I get. So I was listening to something about cryptids the other day.

So I'm like, okay, let me see the cryptid videos that are on freaking tick tock. Right. And the thing is like, they come up, And I'm like, well, yeah, they I mean, the things we've been looking at since the Bigfoot footage in the 60s look fake and these look fake, but they look so much better fake. Right. And I'm like, everyone that pops up and I'm like, it's not like I'm like, oh, that's fake.

Oh, I'm like, yeah, they're all fake. But they all look uniform, the same amount of production put into them. So I'm like, this creature running alongside the highway at night looks as good as this creature that crept into my game cam. I mean, they all look the same amount of fake and good. So I'm like, you can't even single one out and be like, well, this is stupid.

This looks fake. They all look fake, but they all look well-produced fake to the point that I don't care about any of them anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So now I'm going to get nothing but cryptid feed, which is fine.

That's better than most things. Yeah, sure. But I, it was a good example of like, well, everything's going to get to that point. Everything's going to look the same and going to be about the same production value because it's all uniform at some point when it's all in the same computer program. Yeah.

So we're kind of getting to that in, in like produced projects anymore too. Yeah. So it did make me think once you were, once you were going over that before we, we kind of went off on the music version of it, but, but what if this kind of creates its own like sort of anti-movement of like, because yes, corporate's going to be nothing but these, you know, everything's written by an AI and features fake robot computer scanned people. That like, are we, I don't know that that's going to happen. Maybe it's just me creating the future alternate universe Planet of the Apes style where everything riffs and like we have different groups.

But like, what if the writers all get together and the actors all get together like they are right now? And they're like, no, screw it. We're not doing that. So they are going to do their own thing. And there really are going to be nothing but human run operations somewhere that's pumping stuff out. for somebody who's like a kid, like your daughter, who's like all of a sudden like, woo, wait, this has actual people making it.

This is awesome. Like there might be a whole new movement that comes out of this. That's kind of like when we had our weird offshoot of like mumble core for a while, we were like, we're going to shoot this for no budget with a six people that I know. And like, we would just do bullshit like that. Right.

Like it hit for a while. Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't. Well, maybe this is like a bigger version of that where it's going to be like, okay, we're rejecting the entire system that created this bullshit. And like, we're going to make our own thing with, you know, actual writers and human living people.

And like, we're going to shoot it. And like, I don't know, like, I wonder if that's a possibility of where we could, even if it's not that big version of it, but if there's going to be a, again, a mumble core movement, a pocket version of that, where it's like, okay, these are all indie filmmakers and real actors and they got together and they made this for next to nothing. And it's gonna, you know, not be on the big screens where Barbie's showing, but it's gonna, you know, because now everything can get distributed to your house, to your phone. They can still put it out there and find weird little pocket groups of people that are like, okay, I'm responding to this because it's not that corporate mass produced computer produced thing.

So I don't know, like, is that, is that a possibility that it's going to cause a rift in the entertainment industry, maybe a little bigger than these little offshoots over the years? Yeah, maybe, maybe. Well, I mean, it sounds, I mean, what you're describing is very punk, you know, and so I would love it if that happens, you know, and it could possibly happen. I mean, I see it as like, we could have like, you know, certified made by humans, you know, kind of products, you know, kind of like made in America. Seal of approval.

Human made. And as those algorithms get better and entertainment just gets better. I mean, better. I mean, for the math, you know, for most people, it's like, wow, that was every time. It's like a satisfying story with a satisfying arc and well-defined characters, because that's what the algorithm is just going to produce.

And so they're actually making better entertainment than humans can make, you know, and then super humans. Right, right. It's so entertaining and so perfect. Every time you'd never have every movie is a 10, you know, and, you know, it's like a new masterpiece is mass produced every freaking, you know, seven minutes. And I mean, but based on the things that I pump into the computer art generators and it spits back this weird world, I'm like, is every movie going to be in that world?

Yeah. Maybe they'll get better and they'll learn to mimic humans a little better, but well, In a way, that was the only thing that was interesting about those, you know, throw in a description and see what the computer gives you is like, it was such a bastardized version of everything that I was just like, well, this is fascinating. I don't know that I want nothing but this and I don't consider it real art, but it's interesting. So yeah. But real art.

So you're going like, you know, it's like kind of like when we went from taking pictures with film to digital is like people who are into photography would say, you're not really a photographer unless you develop your own. Right. Right. You didn't develop it. You don't know what you're talking about.

You have no financial or emotional or intellectual investment into this product that you're making, you know, so it's not, I'm not operating on the level that I am. I mean, I am one of those people. I take photos all the time. I pretend like I'm a photographer. I'm using air quotes over here.

You can't say, but I'm a photographer, but I'm like, do I know how to, I started on film, but I still took it and dropped it off at the local store to have it done. Like I never got into that. And which again, cause it seemed like more trouble than it was worth when I could just I want the photo. I don't need the process to get it. So is that the same thing here?

I want the end result of my movie. I don't need the process of writing it or hiring actors. So that's the question. Is that, yeah. Which, which road are we on here?

Right. Do you want, is there, is there value to movies because it is a, it was a pain in the ass for them to make it. It was a, it was because they're a, is part of the movie going experience, knowing that it was a person there who spent the three years of their lives to make it put in the sacrifice, put in the emotional and the intellectual steam and to organize all these people to come together for a common goal, to make a project for you to sit here and, and watch and, and, and think about, you know, sometimes make fun of and make fun of. Right. I still like that for movies.

I've been doing that for years now. Like I still, even though we're just, at the time we're creeping into the cg world and that but i'm like i look back and like the stuff that when i'm on the show talking about how much i appreciate movies it's usually stuff from like the 70s and 80s and i'm specifically talking about because it was hard to do this it was hard to either find the right place to do it. That already looked like that or build a set that looks like crap, but like it at least represents what you're looking for and then get people, you know, together to come be bad actors in this. Or maybe you had enough money to hire real actors, but like every step of it was so complicated. The fact that any movie ever got made back then is amazing.

Exactly. So that I appreciate, but I mean, now it's, you've got a million people working on it. I guess it's even more complex technically when you're making your CG filled thing. And we'll be even more so once it's written by robots that somebody has to program. And like, it's still going to be complicated.

The more it goes down this non-human world, but I don't know. Like, I still think I appreciate the physical aspects of those other ones. Right. So I don't know. Maybe I am. need to appreciate people who develop their own film more so than the crap I post on Instagram that I took with my digital camera.

Well, it just, you know, when you know how deep a certain subject goes, you can just have an appreciation for it. You know, it's like, uh, you know, so I mean, I'm just saying, you know, no, I don't want to like go turn one of my rooms into a dark room so I can take pictures. So I don't have enough real photographer, you know, but I'm just like, I'm going like, I appreciate people who appreciate that, but I'm just going like, what is the value of a movie? Does the value of a movie change when you know that nobody was involved in the process? I mean, I definitely thought that as we went into the bigger budget action things, you know, when I, when I look and I'm, will actually usually have a lot of good things to say about Marvel.

I kind of get tired of people bad mouthing it, but at the same time, I also see that like these last several, you know, it's like, you don't even feel like you're in the world. Like, you know, the last several of it, like literally they've said it in an alternate, uh, universe you know you're watching that ant-man and like nothing in it looks real because it's in an alternate sub tiny micro universe and everything can look fucking crazy and i'm like that's great but it also disconnects you a little bit yeah right so there's that kind of stuff but also when it comes to like the stunts and stuff i'm like when i'm watching that i know they're on a wire in front of a green screen like nobody's gonna get injured And then I go back and watch like some action movies from the eighties.

And I'm like, that guy almost died. That guy almost died every few minutes. I'm like, Oh my God, that almost killed somebody. Like there's something very real about the old way they used to do stuff. And granted, it was also like dangerous.

Yeah. Not really a good idea to put people in that amount of danger, but there's an interesting aspect that kind of ups the ante a little bit that you're like, okay, now I want to watch this because this, you know, you can go watch all the flying on wires Kung Fu you want. But when, you know, Jackie Chan almost killed himself 17 times making this movie, like it's a different angle, you know, it's a different thing. It's a different level of commitment. Right.

And so, and so that level of commitment, that level. And so, you know, how exposed the, the filmmaker is, you know, how much of it are they, putting into it? Are they phoning it in? Are they really shooting for something? Are they really trying to achieve something that maybe they don't know how to achieve?

All that kind of drama, I think just kind of adds value to a piece of work versus auto algorithm generated uh, uh, uh, like music or something like that, you know, yeah, that's a catchy beat, but I know nobody actually touched this, you know, uh, it was, uh, a button pushed generated. So, I mean, it has a different value and it may be entertaining, but it just doesn't have, for me, it doesn't have value because I know nobody lost any sleep over it, you know? Uh, but, but, but what's interesting is the, just the, uh, you know, this technology was, uh, designed to set you know artists free of like financial uh uh restraints uh that you could not afford artists or studios well i would say artists i would.

Say studios don't want to pay the artist yeah right that's true so that sets them free from giving anyone any money right right right but there's 50 people behind you uh willing to work uh 80 hour weeks to make this uh Butterfly and the new Ant-Man, you know, come to life. So I guess the thought is, yeah, for the artist that now that if you could afford, you know, this computer. And so it was kind of a punk kind of thing, like freeing you from, you know, the modern distribution and financial tricks you had to do to make a movie. So now you're free of that. So now you're empowered to make your own thing.

And now it's becoming to the point where you don't even have to do that. It's almost like now, you know, people don't even have to. I don't know. Everything's become. It's weird because now it's like it's not freeing the artist.

Now it's like it's freeing them from. The reason to be there, you're free to go and work at the burger shack. Because we don't need you anymore. We don't need you anymore because basically if most people don't care, if it was generated by an algorithm versus a person, I. Mean, depending on who you talk to, that's true.

I, again, I feel like the, I use this all the time. The regular people of the world that, that occasionally bring up movies with you. those people, I don't think care. Like, you know, cause I have, I have a few lately that I guess because they still kind of know I do this, but they don't fully understand it. And they sure as hell don't want to listen, but they know it has something to do with movies. You know, they're just like, Oh yeah, something.

I think it's online. I don't know. Like they don't get it, but they know just enough that when it comes time for pleasantries, they can be like, oh, have you seen any movies lately? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got one that will continually tell me what they watched lately as though I'm fascinated by their take on it.

Which I am, but for the wrong reason. Because I think they are a perfect candidate of someone who would not care if everything was created, written by a computer, shot on a green screen somewhere with digital actors that were scanned 20 years ago and nobody gets paid for. I don't think they would care. I think they would watch it and be like, no, it's fine. Like they're not invested anyway.

So they're just at best, just going to shrug it off and be like, yep. I watched that anyway. What else is streaming right now? Like they don't invest enough in any of it to care. So they're not going to care.

You know, if people are getting fired to do it, you know, it's just like, they don't, they don't care enough about it as an art form period. So they don't really care. It is a viewer either. Right. Right.

If the point is, is content creation for consumption and, and forgetting it, you know, junk food, you know? And I'm just saying, I'm just saying there's a lot of good movies out there. I haven't watched because I'm going like, I'm not in the mood for something good right now. I'm in the mood for something terrible that I'm not going to have to invest much into. Yeah.

So, so if, if that's what, AI is, it's just noise, you know, to distract you, you know, nonsense to distract you. If the point of all this is just nonsense to distract you, then who cares, you know, if it's generated by an AI or a person. And in fact, good for them that they didn't have to like, you know, go through the hell of, you know, endangering their health and life for Die Hard 3, you know, I mean, it's just like, Hey, I like that movie. It's a good movie. It's a fine movie, but you're just going like, maybe we shouldn't be sacrificing our happiness to make pointless content for immediate.

That was sort of the other end of what I was thinking in the middle of that too, is like, we also, I, I was looking back at everything nostalgically, like, Oh, this, they physically built these sets in the eighties and they almost killed themselves doing stunts. And I'm like, okay, those are all cool to some extent, but at the same time, again, with our, not getting nostalgic about the way life used to be that we've been speaking of. We're also hearing stories now of how emotionally abused, if not physically abused people were on some of those sets of these awesome movies. And I'm just like, yeah, it didn't make it okay. Like sometimes the, the movie that came out of this is great, but was it worth it for what people went through?

Right. Like personally, mentally, emotionally, like what the directors sometimes did to them to get these performances out of the light. Some people say that's part of the art, but I'm like, yeah, it crosses the line sometimes too. It's like, yes, there's a method to the way they might create these emotions and get these scenes. But, there's a line that you've crossed.

Sometimes it is too far. And like, so we certainly had that in abundance back in the day that hopefully now, I mean, granted, sometimes they go a little too far in the post me too world, but at the same time, it's for a reason. Like, because that, right. kind of bullshit needed to stop right right so there's you know there's that aspect that i'm like well i hope in the post me too world that those type of things aren't happening anymore i don't think that's true i think that's a very optimistic. Way now it's no longer. Now everyone's happy and no women are ever treated horribly and no actors are ever treated like shit like well that's probably not true at all but i hope the atrocities that used to go on Maybe you're lessened.

Right. As we move forward. Or they know people can be held accountable. Yeah. Because time after time, we're seeing so many people get kind of outed for being horrible, even just to their coworkers.

You know, sometimes it's just other actors that are just like, yeah, this guy was an asshole on set. Right. Nobody wants to work with him now. And it's like, so back in the old days, you just, that was hush hush. And you didn't talk about that stuff.

Where now it's, maybe people are being held accountable for the way they treat other people so i was like there's there's an upside to some of the things that happen i hope i hope. But yeah yeah but yeah it's good i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm just rambling at this yeah yeah but it's like uh like any is like what's becomes weaponized and then everything gets weird. It's kind of like the movie industry as we're going to make like film dramas for it to entertain people, you know, that's great. That sounds like a good thing. And that sounds like a good way to spend, you know, maybe, uh, get into the industry and everything like that.

But once it becomes, once things get so big, you know, and weaponized, then it's like this, this grinding machine, grinding out product, grinding people apart to, to feed the machine, you know? And I, you know, I mean, I had a friend who worked, works in the industry down here that he just said like, you know, it was just affecting my health so much, you know, the stress, then the, And the fact that you have no job stability at all, I mean, nobody has job stability, you know, but just the fact that, you know, that's true. That's true. But even like working class cubicle people, you know, I mean, they're worried about AI at. This point, everybody's getting cut.

So, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, I mean, so, you know, I mean, it's just like, I guess I'm just wondering, you know, if it's worth the human cost. I mean, because you probably get into it thinking you're going to create something. you know, you know, that's going to say, and, but you know, every year, you know, the movies that actually people, you know, feel like they're like actually meant something to them, you know, there's maybe like five a year if that, and then there's like out of the five and then the amount of content being created. So people are just like, you know, getting blown up for, you know, content that nobody's really watching about, you know, and so it's, So maybe it should all just be AI-created.

If we're killing people along the way. If we're ruining people's lives and everything to feed this unending machine. It's almost like we're still making movies by hand. And when the demand for content is almost more than what human beings can safely create. Yeah.

But isn't that always the way art has been like going back to the old painters, you know, it's like they were always tortured artists. Yeah. And they were usually being abused by the people who had money and they were never really appreciated until they were dead. Right. Right.

It's always kind of been this train wreck going on. It's just much bigger stakes and bigger projects and bigger paychecks now. But, I don't know. It's always been just like, well, sucks to be you, artist. Now make my shit.

Continue making stuff that I want, and I'll pay you a little bit of money. Which is exactly why everyone's on strike right now. Keep making my stuff. I'm going to pay you a fraction of what I'm making, and that's all you get. So shut up and keep making my stuff.

It's the way it was back in the old days, and it hasn't really changed that much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Because it's like, oh, you don't want to make my stuff. We'll get this guy. I mean, it's always been like that, but now it's gotten to the point of, yeah, we don't need any of those guys. Yeah.

I've got this computer and I'm not going to. Yeah. I'm not going to employ any of you. Right. I'll get my one IT guy and he's going to run all this shit.

So that's going to be the one person that's indispensable is who can keep the computers running. So go to your tech schools, kids. Get in right now so you can be running the computer that puts everyone else out of work. Don't you? Don't you?

I mean, but, you know, I mean, it's really the tech industry that is getting so nervous because, I mean, yeah, I mean, they're saying like, you know, computers now can write code better than people are, you know? And so it's like, God, even the people that know how this stuff all works are becoming like obsolete. And so, you know, I mean, it's real weird. So anyway, the point is, yeah, I think probably I was thinking about that movie AI that Spielberg did, you know, it's just like this anti-robot movement, you know, like pro-human movement, you know, I mean, it sounds the fact that we're even talking about this and it sounds like a cyberpunk plot, you know, is so bizarre. But, you know, you know, certified kind of where we've gone now.

People are going to just be in the movies are going to get so good. And so like, you know, generically amazing every time, you know, people are just going to go out and be making the punk movement is just going to be going out and making like, you know, shooting the first draft of the movie of the screenplay that they kind of wrote. And just the derpier and more terrible it is, as long as it's made by people. We want to see something bad made by people, not something perfect made by robots. I think you've just coined the phrase for their entire movement.

Generically amazing. Completely generic and phenomenal, all in the same stroke. I don't know. I think that's where we're headed. I don't know.

I laughed, I cried, I learned something about myself again. And then I forgot it five minutes later. Five minutes later. When I scrolled to the new video on my phone and I went, oh, kitties, yay. Right.

There's just going to be a cat video is a cat video as valuable if you know it's just a generated AI algorithm of a cat. I mean, as long as it's well, I mean, if they're saving cats, cause this was the one, this was on my weird algorithm that kept coming up with animal videos like everyone's, I suppose does, but there were ones that were shot and it was like, I think that cat's about to die. They were showing some of them are cute kitties wrestling around. And then it would cut to another one. Then I'm like, that cat just jumped off a building.

I don't think that cat's okay. So I'm like, stop shooting those videos. Go save that cat. Or there's one that like, there's a cat going up to an alligator and smacking it. Oh, okay.

And I'm like, okay, you're a bad cat owner right now. Put the camera down and go grab your cat and fight off an alligator if that's what you need to do. I was like, there's times when it's like crossing the line. There was one yesterday of a cat fighting a snake. And I'm like, no, put the camera down, you asshole.

And go get your cat. I don't care if it's your cat. Go get that cat. Because it doesn't need to be fighting a snake. You guys suck.

So if they need to do that in CG... To save, you know, random cats and dogs that are going to get invented. We don't need more Milo and Otis's. Okay. Go CGI all those movies.

Okay. Right. That's what we need is saving people's lives with it. Sure. Go ahead.

Yeah. again it's gonna be forgettable content that as soon as you scroll to the next video you're like oh a new thing. Yeah yeah right shiny shiny shiny shiny you know. New things new things new things new things right. That scroll up that scroll up everything's like 13 seconds i mean they were talking about you know oh music videos ruining your attention span but i mean nothing to the level nothing compared to this nothing that's. Why i can't understand when we get we keep getting these movies that are over three hours long i'm like who right who is going to see this because little young peoples are used to 13 seconds old people can't sit in the theater that long because they gotta go pee right like who are you making this.

For exactly so that latest little mermaid movie was almost three hours long and they they pulled it off but i mean i'm not going to get into it but Uh, but, but, uh, but they pull, but it was, but I was going like, there's no way every kid is going to be able to sit here and see three hours of, of this, you know? I mean, but, uh, weird. Yeah. We're, we're. going against the way that the public's brain works at this. Point yeah it is weird it is very you know oppenheimer it's it's uh 48 seconds.

It just starts off look i fixed it. Just a mushroom cloud for the next. 14 seconds and then a credit real quick and we're done there you go all right scroll to the next thing i've seen it right Right. It would have gotten a lot more viewers if it was 45 seconds. And instead of Celia Murphy, they had like some YouTube influencer playing their part, you know?

I mean, to some people, that's all they want. Well, I'm always like going like, who are these? You know, I used to like make fun of my parents, like going like, who are these actors? Blah, blah, blah. And so I go like, who are these people in this movie?

You are that person now. I am now that person. But now I'm going, now my kids tell me, oh, they're like, Instagram people or YouTube people or something. And I'm going like, Oh, okay. So that's really, they have millions of dollars that you don't have for doing something you.

Don't know how to do. Right. Right. Like, Oh, I hate these kids. Right.

Right. Or even conceive that that's something you do, you know, that would somebody, it's not a thing. That was me on the last horror episode. It was like about stupid influencers. And I'm like, they're not, it's again, old man rant.

I was just like, they're not even doing anything. They're not even providing a service. They're just talking about what they're doing right now. This is bullshit. I know.

Yeah. I know. I think it's like people, just older people just were raised with an idea that you're shit. and you've got to accomplish something for people to pay attention to you. You've got to do something. You're not just born special and perfect and everything you say is amazing.

Your worth is something you create by your actions and what you yourself create or go out and do and right yeah i don't think that has to be a thing on the internet world. I'm just because the people who were just like um. They're like if i got a pulse all right i've got followers cool right. Right right so i think yeah i think the whole people making things i mean that's just like Eh, the computer could do it. I mean, I'm just going to not make anything and I'm just going to present myself on unadorned.

I'm not going to make a thing. I am the product. I don't know. This all sounds like nightmare territory. Yeah.

And I do wonder, because being a dorky kid who wanted to be creative and didn't think they were good at any of it, and it's arguable that I ever was, but I remember wanting to make things. Do kids want that anymore? They're still... I guess taking them to school and giving them some construction paper and be like, here, make some crap. But like, I don't know.

The kids have that need. They must be. They're still like firing up a tick tock and dancing around like idiots. And that's what they want to create. Like, so I guess that's something, but I don't know.

Like, it feels like that need to create is changed. Over the years. I think I hope not, but I don't know. I think, I think it's a easier is easier for them to do. So, you know, I mean, I think that urge to create is still there.

I think, but it's amazing. The, my, one of my kids, I mean, again, I don't know how this kid is my kid because this is high school kid. And so she joined like a little band and everything that was nearby. And, and so she's been going into band practice, you know? And I go like, well, how's my kid cool enough to be in a rock band?

You know, I don't know. But so she's doing this thing. It's just some fun she's doing with friends, you know. But she said like, oh, we did our first demo. And I go, OK, well, y'all played like five times together.

And it was like, yeah, we put this together. And she played it. And I was like, it was like so I'm used to when I hear demo, I think something somebody play it. record with their cassette record and play on their right in the garage in the garage and so the acoustics are weird and it's not exactly this this thing she played had the slickest production values and it was like perfectly mixed i mean you know i mean you know perfectly mixed for all of i'll i'll sake them argument you know and like so well produced i was going like this is your demo i mean i mean you guys played five times together and this is i'm i'm this is not what i was expecting when you said it let me play this demo for you and uh i was going like so yeah that they still there's a need to be in a band to create something to make something uh but it's uh But the level of production you can do now, it is almost like, why would I give up control to get this level of production by settling all of my rights away to a company?

You know, I mean, again, maybe a weird new offshoot that like maybe, cause I mean, music has been that way for, you know, since Napster for God's sake, like it shifted and never recovered in, in the old way. Like nobody's cashing paychecks like they used to, even the big acts don't cash paychecks. Like the only thing they do is tour. And that's where the real money is now because it's a real physical thing. But, you know, streaming doesn't make you money anymore.

And like creating albums doesn't make you money. It's like, the only way is when you become huge and then you go fill a stadium somewhere and you sell a hundred dollar t-shirts to people in the parking lot. And like, that's the only way you make money at that anymore. Yeah. But there is a very like listening to like what we were describing before.

It is a very punk rock attitude. Yeah. You want to because that's that's what I kind of fear with, you know, moving into the future. The thing that was going on and, you know, punk rock kids was like this stuff that's popular right now. Is it me?

I don't like it. I'm going to go do something. And like, even if it's not what normal people think is good, I'm going to do it. And it's mine. And that makes it. worthwhile.

It's my thing. I'm creating something that's different than what's already out there. Right. And we got, you know, good and bad that came along with it, but it was kids wanting to do that. Whereas now I worry that things are so easy that you can just, you know, type it in and be like, uh, I just want to see this number one, everything already exists to some extent.

And if not, you can type it in the computer and it will create it for you. And you don't really have to put in hardly any effort. So, right. That's dangerous for those kids that, you know, you're not going to get that punk rock movement anymore because they're like, eh, why Bob? Right.

So it's, it made it more accessible. Then it made it easier. And so then are you going to, so what I'm saying is like, are you going to, you're not having to put in the financial, emotional investment to really want to do something to really, you know, to really, I don't know the pain in the ass of doing it, you know, would weed people out. So the people who really, really wanted it, you know, would get through those hurdles and through luck would get through those hurdles also tenacity and luck, and then be able to, you know, finally work their way up to produce a, to make a, you know, a terrible sequel to Smokey and the Bandit or something. I mean, that's the thing.

As you were describing, I was like, that's what happened in the film industry for years there. It's like, as we said, it was hard to make a movie and cost a lot of money that normal people don't have. So the handful of people that made it through either were big budget stuff that studio backed that made it quote unquote good for one reason or another or or the handful of independents that did it like good or bad. Like it was an accomplishment when they were done. And then once we got to the nineties and like every indie person came along, it's like, well, I can write whatever I can shoot it pretty simple now.

And then you jumped to like the next wave of like, no, now digital, you know, digital media. So I can shoot it for next to nothing. Now the effects suddenly are next to nothing. Now, like with each step moving forward, it's like, it became easier and easier to do. And I've definitely talked to people in the industry that have said, yeah, I mean, it's great that everybody has the freedom to go out and create their own movie.

That's awesome. But when there were gatekeepers, it also weeded out the people that sucked from the get go. They like, look, you just don't have talent. Get out of here, kid. Go flip a burger.

Like we need somebody to do that job. This isn't for you. We didn't have that anymore. So you also got a ton of people in the industry in their own minds that that we're making movies and like, uh, you, you didn't weed out anybody anymore. Everybody got a chance to put their stuff out there, which is on one hand.

Great. But at the same time, it's like, you got a lot of lesser stuff along the way because you didn't have anybody weeding up the bad stuff anymore. So, I don't know. Like I've definitely heard people in the industry complain about that. It's like, yeah, it's great that everybody gets to do it, but maybe not everybody needs to do it, you know?

Right. So we're kind of at that point now, like across the board, like you can, you have the freedom to create anything now, be it music, movies, animation, like anything you can create using a computer with little effort on your part, you can create anything. Right. So, yeah, I mean, it, it, it's dangerous because you don't have people in charge saying what needs to be out there, but the people that are in charge kind of suck. They're taking all the money, which is why they're getting cut out of the deal too.

So it's like, I don't know. There's no good answer. No, no. I mean, if, if people, people have a need to create, so doing this, you know, doing these algorithms, you know, fulfill that basic need to, to make something to, interpret your world and make a tangible thing out of it i mean it's it's not bad but i mean it it it goes like what you know i don't want to spend ten dollars to watch everybody look at everybody's kids you know thumb painting you know uh so it's everybody's thumb paintings everybody's you know finger uh refrigerator art you know up on the uh internet which does feel that this is uh a you know, it's just a message in the bottle out. I mean, that is what TikTok feels like to me.

Right. Like when I see the, and I'm like, I will so like, that's, you will, when, once I was forced to get that thing, they would hear me complain about it because I was just like, but nobody's even doing anything. Like I'm watching this and like, You would set up even a 20 second video. It would have before, if anyone put any effort in, it would have some sort of momentum or it was leading to something or we would get somewhere even in random footage you shot of something. But there's so many that I watch now and I'm like, that didn't even need to happen.

Like nothing happened. At the end. Like I didn't get anywhere. I didn't see anything worth seeing. It's just out there.

It's just on there. And like, that's some terrible kid. finger pain. Like they went, look, I posted this and like, yeah, but is it worth you posting? Nobody asked that question. You know, it's just like, but I posted it.

Like, so, so, so the fact that, you know, they felt like, Hey, I need to be Oh, oh my gosh. It sounds so hippie. It's like, they're going, or like, so whatever. I'm like, there we go. Somebody is going like, Hey, I'm here.

I want to be seen. Do you see me? You know, that's a, that is a basic human need. That is just, you know, we're really seeing it on social media, how amplified it is, or just like how it's always been there. But now people just have access to go like, I need to be seen, you know, I deserve to be seen.

Right. Right. Right. Not even, it's just like, I feel this need. I feel as need to know that I exist through the comments of, or through like, you know, through a reflection or something.

I know. So it was real weird, Brian is real weird. And so I think the point is there's, I can't remember if we're trying to make a point or, but it was just, it's just like, if this stuff is fulfilling the people's need to create, you know, and to be seen and be feel like they're part of like some kind of community or some kind of, you know, Oh, I thought this was cute here. Look at this. I feel good that I shared that, you know, cause I'm here and you saw it.

And, but, you know, and so this is, I mean, it's interesting. It feels a neat, you know, and so to make it easier to get to that point to maybe, but I guess it's how there's going to be people out there who want to do it the old way, because the more removed you are from the process of doing it, the less connected you feel to it, you know? Uh, so, so if I, if I, I took a picture of this sandwich, all right, I feel the same, but I'm not, how sad is that? Did you make the sandwich? No, but I ate it.

I bought it and I. Took a picture of it and I posted it and said, isn't this awesome? And they're like, cool. How'd you make it? I don't know.

I don't even know what's on it. Right. Right. it's kind of like these animation movies where, you know, you don't really like it, but you do know that it took them 20 years and whatever that field tip thing was. Oh yeah. Yeah.

I haven't watched it yet. And I hear people respect it more than they enjoy it, you know? And, but you know, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I didn't enjoy that, but I respect the fact that it was a person who, busted their ass for 20 years yeah you.

Know up with this crazy idea right and a normal person would have been like nope this is way too much to do right and he was like screw it i'm gonna keep at it and kept at it for years right right right you have to appreciate. You have to appreciate you go like okay i that inspires me because sometimes you know i can't i can't fit it I'm so lazy. I can't finish the nap. I mean, you know, I get that mode. I definitely get that mode.

Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm going like, okay, I, I, you kind of inspired me that, you know, you spent 20 years to make it, even though it's not really my thing, you know, I respect that you did it, you know? Um, But the AI could probably make that same movie in 45 seconds and then. Yeah, and cost next to nothing to do it.

Next to nothing. Versus the physical amount of time and props and work and film. Yeah. I think people are just going to buy tickets just to go watch people make clay pots. I mean, I think there's going to be like, I just want to see somebody make something.

At least that's creation. I mean, I can get on board with, you know, there's an artist there making a thing. Like that's more than. Will we get to the computer itself will design the pot and then the robot will make the pot for you and fire it for you? At some point, I don't know.

When do we work ourselves out of every scenario? Computers make everything and robots build everything. And either we're dead by then or we just don't have to move. We just float in our chairs and we're living in our... future pixar world yeah. Maybe maybe uh yeah maybe ai generated pixar movies won't be so condescending.

See i don't know that we're going to come up with an answer to all our questions so we've thrown out many a thought i don't know that any of them led to anything useful for you but i i do always like when we get to our uh or whatever you've been watching so i thought if nothing else okay yeah i can round it out with one that i just saw mostly because i want to hear your thoughts on it but also because. It's very real world it's very. It's pointing out very specific things that happen to make this thing that i think will sort of kind of bound or at least go along with some of our ramblings along the way okay and if you have anything you've seen throw it in there too but i did specifically see this lately and i was like oh i i want to hear what what you got to say on this one all right so i have recently watched street trash.

Oh yeah yeah okay awesome all right all right very. Visceral very real world visceral movie thrown knee deep in the grossness and guts of filmmaking. Yes. And I knew of it for, it was one of those. I was like, have I seen it?

Like, I couldn't even remember if I'd seen bits and pieces. Cause I think I was mixing it in with a bunch of other weird, super low budget independent cult kind of movies that like, once I started watching, I was like, I don't think I have, I just knew, I knew of the, the selling point, which is the creation destruction of the people. Like, right. Right. Thing that they did when they did the, uh, destroying of humans.

So I guess spoilers for street trash. Yeah. Everyone melts in rainbow colored goo. Yeah. There you go.

I've ruined it for you. Cause that's really the only thing you can ruin. There's pretty much. Minimal plot in this thing like it is yeah almost nothing really as a story going on right right if it weren't for the effects of it i don't know why you would show up really. That's really the problem with it it's it's not a it's not a my take on it is pretty much yours there and that it's not really a real strong story that pulls you through it you're kind of biding time in between till the next person melts right right right and i don't remember if there's like a main character that there's like a protagonist that kind of.

Like we spend the most time with one homeless hobo that drinks a lot versus the other homeless hobos that drink a lot right right so occasionally we work in some uh a cop along the way the guy that owns the car lot the girl that works out front that's getting sexually harassed every moment of her life and it's his younger brother that's also homeless so there's so many people so many people there's other people but like none of them do we invest any time with nor do we really care about like even as we destroy them we're like good. Yeah. Hurry up and destroy that other guy. Cause I don't like him. Like, that's the problem.

I seem to remember not many likable people in the movie. Nobody really rooting for, I mean, not that I remember. I mean, so, you know, it was always one that was kind of a chore for me to get through, uh, despite the cool effects, but I mean, the, the VHS box was spectacular. It had great artwork. And again, once you get to those moments of like, yeah, it is not like it's realistic, but what you're doing is amazing to look at.

So it's like, that's awesome. Like, yeah. And it is, you can tell like, that's what sold them. They just loved. Cause then I watched the original short film that they put together the first part, which is kind of maybe better because it's over in like 16 minutes or something.

Right. Right. It's relatively short. They hit kind of a couple of the same scenes along the way. And then we still get effects.

They aren't quite as fancy because they were super, you know, no budget on that one. Right. But, Like you can see, like, this is what was fueling them. They just love the idea of this super violent, completely destroying a human body and making it look cool along the way. And like, you can see how much they love that.

And then so much though, that they're like, let's make a movie about it. And they're like, well, do you guys have anything else to build this movie around? And they're like, nah, let's just do more of them. Like more things blowing up. Yay.

Like, yeah. Yeah. It's almost like, yeah. Effects guys, you know, made that movie. It seems like, you know, it just seems like, and so it's, it's like a show reel for these guys effects, which is, which is, and they're pretty cool.

They're low budget. But, you know, I mean, you guys got to remember Fangoria heyday years, you know, where effects guys were were rock stars. And, you know, you. Followed movies based on the effects guys. And and so everybody's kind of like trying to be the next, you know, Led Zeppelin of effects.

And so, you know, there's a lot of these, you know, scrappy movies where they're trying to achieve that because it was so popular. you know, rubber reality and just the, uh, all that stuff from the Howling all through the eighties, you know, uh, I guess probably the exorcist, uh, starting with Dick Smith stuff, you know, just really taking it to the next level. And, and so people would go and see these horror movies where the effects were like, uh, the huge draw. And now you see it and you go like, Oh, it's like rubber puppets, you know? It's like rubber... It's like we were so blown away by rubber puppets that...

And I. Still am, right? Yeah. Again, almost going back to that thing is like those are real and somebody made it and they destroyed it just to film it so that you could watch it versus, you know, now you just CG it. Nobody cares.

Like, I don't know. I still appreciate it. It hurts me. It hurts me. It hurts me.

Cause I hear like the, the thing prequel is a good movie, but it just hurts me that they've got rid of all that practical effects for, and they reached shot all the scenes with, they replaced the practical effects they did for the CG. It was all financial because yeah, I remember talking to them about it. It was like, they shot practical stuff for it. And then they went, nah, this just didn't work. And it's not cost effective.

And they went back and put crappy CG over top of it. So I'm just like, it just hurts me. And so I, and I go like, what is it about though? Was it, what, what was going on in the eighties that we were so mind blown by rubber puppets that, uh, I mean, it's kind of like. jim henson with the muppets and then we get into et where you get to see a muppet die of cancer and then you. Get it.

Okay if he rises from the dead it makes it all right okay and then like rubber puppets man it was just like everywhere And just like, so you'd go see movies just for the rubber puppet in it. And what kind of rubber puppet is in this? And so, you know, until CG came along, we were just obsessed with like how realistic they could get that rubber puppet. Well, in this one, they weren't all that realistic. The rainbow goo would flow out of their faces.

Right. But we were, we were love all manner of rubber puppet. And, and, and, controversial hot take well this. Was also because that's the thing by the end i was like i enjoy the fact that i've seen it and i enjoyed the effects more than anything but it's also such a grimy movie that i'm like i don't know that i feel the need to re-watch it certainly not anytime soon if someone else hadn't seen it needed to i would watch it again maybe but i didn't really need to revisit it anytime soon. So I was like, I think that's part of it too.

It's just like, it's, it's just filled with ugly. It's not just, not just visually, but also the way people treat each other is horrible in every aspect of the movie. So there's that there's also on the almost good side. Well, I don't know that it's a good side on the capturing a moment side. It is also amazing just to have footage of, Of that time period.

Because this is low budget. So when they're shooting on city streets. It is just a grimy city street. You are just capturing this weird time and place. Of like. here's what was going on in the world at this time.

Right. And like the reason it's also depressing is because this was really these people's lives. Like we may have made up some fictional characters, but the surroundings are all real. These are a bunch of weird homeless people. And we made up a crazy fictional story about them eating from the inside by booze.

Yeah. Maybe that's not so far fetched either. Actually, there was a slight metaphor. I don't even know if they were trying for that, but I feel like it's there if you want it to be. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's probably why people don't, you know, as street trash is kind of like C tier, you know, 80s heart is just, just because of that vibe of, you know, like basket case for me has that vibe. but it's kind of like so cartoony and not that there's something cynical about street trash that doesn't, you know doesn't bear for repeat viewings you know because it's just grim like there's nothing good about it yeah requiem of the dream kind of thing you know just like you don't really want to go there you know i mean it's it's just not a it's not an evil dead to i mean you know the the the vibe you know some some horror movies are just mean-spirited you know which i yeah those are the ones i just don't get and like those terrifier movies are are for me mean-spirited you.

Know Street trash is definitely mean spirited. Yeah. Yeah. The only time you feel joy in the movie is watching the effects. Like that's when they were excited and they wanted to create this really cool effect and that comes through.

But when you get back to the human characters, you're just like, oh, I just want to go hose off. These people are all disgusting and like just physically, but emotionally, mentally, like they're all just horrible. Like, yeah. Yeah. It's like I'm in a sanitarium or something and I'm having, you know, just like, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, it's one to watch. I can see why it's got a cult following, but, you know, it's just never for all those reasons we said, you know, it's never quite clicked. There's one kind of like it that I want to track down called Slime City, which I saw a clip from. and uh i go like oh that actually looks good you know it's kind of you know beta around the same era in the same same neighborhood they were probably like trading effects artists you know but you can see the other one's camera in the background right right right right slime city yeah yeah so yeah i don't know man yeah that's cool that's cool that you check that out um. Yeah it's one of those like kind of had on the list and then it got lumped into the rest.

I was like, did I watch it ever? Did I mix it up with the other six movies that were trying to do that same thing at the same time? Right. Right. Yeah.

I just finally got around to it and yeah, it's something. All right. It sure is. It sure is. Yeah.

You go like, oh yeah, I see. You know why this maybe didn't come up sooner, you know, but, but, you know, I rewatched another movie. I rewatched, I rewatched night of the creeps, which, you know, has always been, It's kind of like a B-list 80s. It's not top tier. Definitely not top tier, but it certainly had a fan base that as time went on, got super into it too.

I think it's just people like Fred Decker. He is the nicest guy in the world. It's ridiculous what a cool dude he was. You did an interview with him, right? He was really cool.

Surprisingly... because I think he was immediately knocked off his, you know, his stool. He climbed up and he went, Oh, I got to make this cool horror movie. Oh, I got this, make this other cool movie. Right. Oh, the entire industry was taken away from me after that.

Right, right, right. I made a super big budget movie for a studio that everyone hated. Right. And then I lost most of my career because of it. So, right, right.

The fact that he was still as upbeat as he was, was crazy. Right, right, right. And so, you know, we don't, nobody knows really what Fred Decker did in those intervening years, you know, to survive. And, you know, we just know, we just know, Hey Fred, we were rooting for you and we were just glad you're still around. So, you know, still making quality predator movies.

Quality predator movies. Yeah, that's right. Thank God. But, but so, you know, I mean, really for me rewatching, uh, Night of the Creeps it's for me it's like got pacing issues but it's really just like you just really keep wanting to fast forward to the Tom Atkins scenes you know that's basically it you know so I think the thrill me and Tom Atkins is that whole movie is kind of like stands on the shoulders of that because I think that kid from European Vacation is like the most zero charisma you know there's a reason he's. In one your vacation movie Granted, they were all in one.

You only got one round. The child of the griswold. You only got one shot. Pretty much. But he's also the one no one remembers.

It's just like everybody remembers the first win. The third win went on to become way more successful than anyone will ever think. Imagine. Right. And then even the fourth one, people are like, oh, I like that movie.

But like, yeah, nobody really remembers the second movie. No, no, no. Neither of the kids were well beloved. No offense to them. Yeah, no offense.

No offense. So you're just going like, you know, I was going and I think that's probably the magic of or the people generate or certain actors, you know, had this been recast with a more charismatic lead. actor you know it would have given you somebody that you cared about to pull you through the movie in between the awesome tom atkins scenes you know uh but but it just doesn't that one doesn't hold up for me very well you know i remember. Liking it more than i expected because it's another one of those i knew of it but i watched it i think before we started talking about it on the show and like that's the first time i had seen it really in its entirety and i think the other stuff about it is so cool like because it's such a mixture of things again it's fred decker playing in his toy box he's like what if there was aliens and zombies and there's like a cup and he's like it's just mixing all this stuff together that i'm like that aspect of it is still light enough that it's fun and like i would want to revisit that where it doesn't get bogged down in the other stuff yes it's got its issues but but i still feel like it's so goofy and fun right that it does make you want to come back and revisit it and you know see zombies come pick up their dates yeah yeah yeah it's got that part's always entertaining what's.

So funny i watched the uh the special features on the dvd and i've realized uh i was watching the movie i was going like man these frat boys are really miscast i mean they all look like they're in their 40s i mean like that's 80 that's. Every yeah everything high school kids they're all in their mid-30s at best. Yeah yeah and so i'm going like man this is terrible this guy's got like you know, Tom Selleck mustache. And this guy's got like the mullet of all mullets, you know, you know, parking lot, heavy metal parking lot mullet going on. And, and, you know, I'm just watching it.

I'm going like, why are they, why did they choose these guys? You know, but anyway, that watch the special features and all those guys were the special effects crew and, and they, they cast them so they could make the molds of their heads. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are just hanging around all day anyway.

Get over here. The budget was so tight that they had to get those molds made to have all these effects ready for the show. I was going like, that is so funny. You got Howard Berger of K & B in the background. I think he was the one I was going like, why is this guy in this movie?

Why is this guy still in school? What is going on? How many times were you held back, buddy? Seriously. It was.

It was pretty, pretty interesting. It's interesting rewatching these movies and going like. You definitely, I mean, with all movies, I like that because you, especially if it's been years and there's a lot of them lately, I've been watching that. I'm like, I haven't seen this since initially when I rented it on VHS, you know? And it's like, I'm coming back to it now.

And I'm like, Oh, I've forgotten 90% of this. Like I remember the basic details and everything else in the middle has just been a blur. And, it is you, you, you are a different person when you revisit stuff that far along, you know, it's like six months later, you know, not that big a deal. But when you come back to it decades later, it's just like, this is a whole new movie and I'm a whole different person. So you have a whole different experience rewatching stuff.

It's, it's crazy. It is weird. Here's, here's a big one. Uh, we rewatched Superman two, I guess the Richard Lester, not the Richard Donner version of the. Wait, the original like theater?

Theatrical. See, I like that one better. Right? That's forever been my opinion as well, Brian, that Superman 2, even the theatrical cut, is better than... Oh, okay, go ahead.

Are you like it better than the Donner cut? Yeah, I got the Donner cut and I finally was like, oh, I've heard so much about this over the years and I like Richard Donner. I want to see this. And I watched, I was like, wow, these scenes that are in here that are very specifically in this Donner version do not match. Right.

Do not need to be here. Like it just feels uneven. Yeah. Like, yeah. So I was like, I will much prefer to rewatch the original theatrical version than the Donner cut.

Yeah. Yeah. So, right. So I rewatched the, I remember not being too impressed with the Donner cut as well, but I've always held. in my head that Superman two is better than the original Superman for some reason. Okay.

I don't know. Cause after rewatching them. I enjoyed it a lot as a child, but yeah, I'm sure it has its issues. Listen, the Donner movie part of Superman, Superman two, I was shocked at how awful I thought it was, you know? I mean, really, I kind of see like now the jump from Superman two to Superman three was not the fall.

That i originally yeah because nobody likes i just that's one i haven't gotten yet it's sitting in my stack there because i was like i haven't seen superman 3 right in so long again it was cable back in the day and like sure do not think i've revisited it since no no and i remember it being like insane even at the time yeah yeah so it's like like a ridiculous a ridiculous movie a bunch of nonsense. But, but not that much further under Superman two to my shock. Right. I think I just liked the three characters they brought in. And like, I like that most of the movie is just a big fight scene, which I guess now people complain about that, but again, it wasn't CG made.

So them figuring out how to shoot these fight scenes is still pretty interesting to me. So, right. I don't know. Well, I, Again, I remember enjoying that one quite a bit because I like those three characters. Right.

Right. I know. I know. Because you're going like, oh, the problem with the first Superman movie is it's such a long, overblown origin story that it takes forever to get to Superman. Right.

But but so part two, you don't have that origin baggage that, you know, all superhero movies suffer from. And so you just get into the cool stuff. We got these cool supervillains. you know, that are going to come in and break out of their album cover and, you know, and, and come and take, but okay. So what I didn't notice back watching it as a kid, you know, was this is the most low budget takeover of earth that I've ever seen in my life. Okay.

So they land in a, like a national park. And so there's nobody there. And I can't remember, maybe they, knock over a park ranger or something like that so that's that's their big invasion they land like at like a coita campground and uh they kill a snake and they're going like oh our reign of evil has begun and then they are walking down the middle of a desert and they get pulled over by you know roscoe pico train or whatever and i'm just going like okay so they've come to take over earth and they're just going to the most unpopulated places on the earth. They're not making it. You don't have to pay extras.

I mean, so I'm going like, and now we're like in like some manufactured small town set up in the middle of a desert. And, and then there's like the guy, he makes a farmer levitate and fall. And, and then like, and then like the, farmer's kid is for some reason, Oliver twist. I mean, have you, have you noticed that this kid's British accent? He's like, sir, sir, please don't put down my papa.

You know, I'm like, who is this kid? What's going on? They shot it over in the, uh, the James Bond studios. I'm pretty sure they borrowed all those people from the same little group there. So a lot of them were just British actors.

Okay. So you're like, what's going on? And like that, and that kid is like dressed as like the most prototypical does bowl kid on the planet. And you're just going like, everything is so like down the number. And then the army shows up and I think they knock over like one Jeep and that's like the army invasion.

Dude. And so you're just kind of, I guess what we're saying is we're spoiled for. Today's superhero movies were like you actually see a thousand planes getting blown up by a spaceship. Would you be happier if it was like a million CG people in the background running around hiding from stuff? I don't know.

Like, again, I tire of that a lot of times with these new ones. So I do wonder. Maybe that's part of why I responded to it, because we were focused on the characters. Like, Terrence Stamp is just a badass in that movie. He's so good.

They're dressed so disco, man. They're just so disco. And so you just got, I was watching it. Yeah, Terrence Stamp pulls that. When people say good things about Superman 2, it's usually centered around those three.

Oh, yeah. Bad guys you know because it's the whole thing with lois's performance about figuring out kirk clark as a superman it's like so campy man and it's like. Just makes her seem like a dick like she's supposed to be a really smart reporter but this guy puts glasses on and you can't figure this out. Yeah, it's so bizarre. And like, you know, Christopher Reeve is charming and everything.

I think that's what saves that whole series. Absolutely. So charismatic that I'm like, It's why those first two movies always stood out to me. And it's like, cause I have said a million times on the show, I don't care about the character Superman. The person that made me care about it was Christopher Reeve.

And I was like, oh, this performance makes him, it gives him humanity. It makes me want to care about him versus pretty much anybody else I've seen play. And I'm just like, I don't care about this guy. Like he's all powerful. Who cares?

Like he can do anything. Who cares? Like, it's just such a black character to me versus what he kind of brought to it. That like, it's one of the few times I'm like, Oh, okay. Then now I get it.

This guy's, you know, he makes me want to root for him. Right. And I can't remember, but watching it now, it was, I was seeing it in another, I guess I heard a review. Maybe Tarantino was talking about it on something, you know, but how, what Superman is interesting is, is, is, is, his normal him being Clark Kent is an aliens interpretation of what humans are. That's the kill bill speech.

That's the kill bill speech. Okay. Okay. Okay. Excellent.

That's where it's from. All right. So then watching it, watching Superman tooth or those eyes is that, you know, Superman is trying to blend in. So he's basically doing his interpretation of a person and the interpretation is not flattering. It's you're a bumbling idiot all day long like oh that's humans yep it's kind.

Of like his passive aggressive dick uh commentary on humanity you know that he's gotta be here's what i think of you people oh i'm so sorry you know It's kind of like being a nice hole, you know? I mean, if Superman is the ultimate guy and he's super tough and he can do anything, you gotta play 100% opposite to throw him off your scent. Be like, oh, I'm a bumbling idiot and I can't see. I got these super crazy glasses and I gotta wear, you know, like suits and stuff because I'm a businessman slash reporter. mostly a reporter but i dress in really nice suits for a dumb reporter. Yeah yeah that's what i'm saying so you know seeing superman 2 through the kill bill bill vision it's like man superman's kind of being a dick.

Right now i do remember hearing i really like that again like when you give tarantino the right thing to play with it's like he he knows how to push it and i was just like i remember hearing that that first time going huh I'd never really, again, I didn't care much about Superman as a character either way, but like, I'd also never put that much thought into that end of it. So hearing that, I was like, that's really kind of a clever take there. Oh, yeah, man. But yeah, it is true. He is like putting on an act. where everyone else has to put on their costume to pretend to be their alter ego.

Like he already is Superman all day long. Right. Right. Yeah. It's pretty cool.

Yeah. It was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tarantino's new movies play. He's writing about a film critic. So I think in a prison, it's, It's a film critic in a prison. I don't know. I keep hearing all these different things.

It was based on that one person and now it's not based on her, but it's very similar to her. I was just like, I don't know. I give up. Like, yeah. Yeah.

I think that's a good movie for him. If he actually ends on that. I mean, his, I don't like this. Like, I'm going to one more and I'm capping it off. I'm like, just come on.

Be an old man making movies like all the rest of the old guys. Yeah. Yeah. Quit being cool. Yeah yeah you don't have to they don't all have to be great you know i mean i heard carpenter directed his last project from his couch i mean.

Clint eastwood can barely move and he still cranks out a couple of movies a year yeah that dude can barely get around anymore but yet he's still working like what are you doing man don't retire. Dude don't retire okay so we've got to we've got to at least mention uh the fact that Indiana Jones came back to the theater about, we're talking about retiring and what if India, what if they make an Indiana Jones movie and nobody cares, you know? I mean, I mean, that's the thing when you were naming off all the movies that had come out recently. And I said to you, most of those I haven't seen. The only one I bothered, I'd go to the theater to see the new Indiana Jones.

So I wasn't the problem there. A lot of other people were. Excellent. I was part of the problem. It just never came up.

I did go and see it. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. But just spoiler free, did you enjoy the experience?

I liked it. I think this is what I've said about Indy for years now. It's like, don't make them so damn precious. Like... keep cranking stuff out. Like when we get some bad ones, we'll get over it because there'll be another one two years later.

Like maybe, maybe Disney has found out with star Wars. That's not the way to do it. Like maybe we. Cranked out too much, but when it was just like, Oh, it's the Holy trilogy. Don't put anything else out.

And I'm just like, Oh, but then all we get is, you know, a bunch of knockoff movies that want to be Indiana Jones. I'm like, why not make good stuff with that character and, you need to recast it. Fine. Recast it. I'm fine with it.

Like we've seen other people play Harrison Ford now. Like it's fine. Like you can do that. Or in the fucking future CG world, you can just slap his face. On a, um, right.

Whatever. Blue screen version of a person and they can go through the motions and you can have regular old Harrison Ford doing these movies for all eternity written by a robot somewhere. Right. Right. So, But really, I was just like, don't make it so precious because there were always so many stories like from right after Raiders, like they started putting out those Marvel's comics that were really cool.

Yeah, they were all these other stories about all these other artifacts he was looking for. And like those were cool. Then they started doing those novelizations of different stories that they gave all these different writers license to just hear an indie story. So it's like we got all this other. property out there that like you could be doing cool indie movies of him going to all these different places looking for all these things and we're so busy being precious about everything once again back to our old man death grip i'm like this is the thing i like don't anybody touch it i'm just like get over yourself right let them make some more four is awesome off but you know what there's some good moments in it you know and we all survived after it came out it's.

That's right we all picked up the pieces and I rewatched that recently and I was going like wow this was much worse in my head you know yeah I. Mean there are several moments that are bad and sure could have been edited out and there's a lot of other good stuff in the middle that I'm like you know this could have been a good movie I don't know we did a whole episode of could you fix it I still feel like with some adjustment from the get go, you could have made that into a good movie, but you know, it got missed down the wrong road several times along the way. So like, eh, but it is interesting that this is the first one not directed by Spielberg. Right. And it's pretty solid.

So I'm like, give it to good filmmakers. Cool. Give them the budget to make a decent movie and tell more indie stories. Like, yeah. Is it disturbing to see the old man that Indy has become?

Because we like meet him and he's got his shirt off. Oh, okay. You're not denying he's an old man. Right, right. It's like, oh, yep, that is Harrison Ford today.

And he is not a youngster anymore. But he's still Harrison Ford. He's awesome. Like I can watch him be an old man. It's fine.

And I think it is part of that. I do like that they address that, too. It's not just I'm going to pretend to be young Indy forever. Awesome. There's a part where he's like complaining because he's like, look, I'm an old man.

I don't need to be out here climbing up this freaking mountain. Yeah. I need to be retired. Like, leave me alone. So I'm like, that's what I'm saying.

I was like, yeah, don't don't pretend like he's not a human being. like tell different stories from different points in his life, I suppose. But like, this is the end. And like, we've gotten to him as an old man, let him be an old man in this. Like, I'm fine with that, but don't once again, cap it off so that like, okay. And that's it.

We can't do anymore. I'm like, no, like they already have this new character they introduced here. I'm fine with going, telling more in the universe of Indiana Jones, follow her around now. She was pretty likable too. I'm like, let's go follow her on adventures.

Like, yeah, I don't know. People just get so precious about it all that I'm just like, just tell a good story. I like the Indiana Jones universe. It's like, keep that going. Don't base it all on Harrison Ford.

I agree. Obviously you don't have to base it all on, on Lucas and Spielberg. Cause they're not here. They're not in this movie. They went and saw it.

Spielberg was in the audience. Going, wow. I didn't know other people could do. Like he said that to our director. He's just like, wow.

I didn't know anybody could make one of these except me. And he's like, you did a good job. So like, that's what we need. Like give it to other people, let other people tell stories. So yeah.

On that same note as earlier though, there is a, I guess not a spoiler really, but like, you know how normally they start off with a little separate adventure at the beginning. Right. This one takes place back in time. Right. And we get a young, not, not young Indiana Jones as in the series, but young as in Raiders age, Indiana Jones in the middle of this story.

And because of CG, we get to see young Indiana Jones telling this part of the story. Okay. Okay. It's fine. Did it work?

Yeah. I mean, again, this stuff continues to get better and better. Right. There's a part where they keep shining the flashlight in his face, almost like the CG guys are trying to show off. Be like, uh-huh, see?

And that's the worst looking part. I was like, why would you do that? That's when you're making it look super creepy in CG. Right, right. But there's other stuff that, I mean, it's all practical scans of him.

Like, literally, they have all this footage of his face when he's young. So, it's real versions of Harrison Ford when he's young. So, it's not really, yeah. It's like, I mean, this is making the point of so much of what we argued earlier. Right, right.

Like you've got, at least this was with his blessing, you know, and he's on screen and they're just covering up his face on a lot of those scenes. And old man, him is saying the lines, which some people have said, it's a little weird that 30 some odd year old version of him has old man voice, but whatever. It's still Harrison Ford, like giving his blessing to do this. So it's fine. That separates it from what's kind of being argued in this strike.

But at the same time, you see, you can put this whole story together without, I mean, assuming Harrison Ford wasn't around anymore. if you had a body double there and put it over his face, you could tell this whole story. So yeah, it's crazy. It's cool on the one hand, because it's surprising. Like if you showed me this in 1983, after I'd seen Raiders and you know, I'd watched these movies already and I'm like, okay, look, that's what I have noticed outside of the flashlight. Like the rest of it looks pretty good.

So I'm like, would I have known the difference as a dumb kid watching Indiana Jones? I don't know that I would. Yeah. As an old man, I'm just like, yeah, this is impossible because he's an old man now. So my brain is telling me to look for it.

But if I didn't know any better, I don't know. Again, they've got millions of dollars. It looks pretty damn good. Right. Right.

Yeah. It's impressive as a technical feat. Right. But magic trick, you know? Yeah.

But do I need it? Because it's always got to be Harrison Ford. No, just recast it. put Aaron Wright in there and cast him as that too. And like make him the default Harrison Ford for everything. I'm going to make and put him on the Tom Clancy movies.

Oh yeah. Right. Right. Instead of that dude from the office, just get, you know, just find new people to play the character. It's fine.

So that's my takeaway, but I've said that for years too. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, James Bond taught this. It's better to have a new James Bond than to have Roger Morse in his seventies, Mac and on Tanya Roberts, you know, He does recast it.

I mean, that was just footage they were shooting around the set. He was doing that anyway, whether he was James Bond or not. Pretty much. He's like, hey, I'm Roger Moore. Who doesn't want to be with me?

Exactly. But no, I was fine with it. I think it's a good adventure story. It's got interesting characters and it's well made. So, you know, what's the downside there?

Just don't be so precious about it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I got a friend. He says he's got to see this stuff is like the latest issue of a comic book series. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. They do that kind of stuff in comics and comic readers.

Well, some of them are whiny and freak out. But a lot of times over the years, they've like they'll kill off the character. They'll bring in a new person. You know, a new person will play this person and like a whole new. story arc will take off because they brought in a different writer. Like that kind of stuff got mixed up all the time in comics and people just sort of rolled with it.

Usually. Whereas again, because these are big budget and everybody now has a big dumb opinion, myself included. Like now we get whiny about it. We want to complain about everything. Right.

Whatever, you know, just make stuff. Who cares? Just make stuff. Who cares? Yeah.

I mean, it's just, yeah. Yeah. So yeah. I mean, cause you know, it's going to be, there's going to be in 20, 200 more Spider-Man reboots and whatever. And it's all, you know, now they're talking about Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire making another one.

I mean, it's just like, it's so, it's all so crazy. Just kind of got to go with the flow. Uh, it's, uh, you know, and if it gets, you know, if it's all CG, yeah. You know, you're just, you're going to talk into, uh, your phone and just say like, Hey, make me a 90 minute version of, uh, of clash of the titans starring you know uh british invasion bands. And it will happen and some people will be.

Okay it runs you watch it you know i don't know man that's that's so crazy dude yeah i missed it but so so just psychologically it was weird that uh indiana jones movie came out and it was uh you know i had no i had i felt no urgency to go see it and. It also didn't do great i mean it didn't i don't think it's gonna lose money in the long run but right it's not like it you know blew everything out of the water like a new anina jones movie would have done in the 80s. But right in my since my entire life i mean you know it just was just like that's one of the things you go see a movie it goes to movies for is to see an anna jones movie or something So it was just real interesting how even these big AI, API, what was that?

AP of intellectual IPs, how these big properties, these big characters, you know, don't generate the enthusiasm. And it shows you like the studios get so caught up in that. Like, oh, we have to have recognizable characters. We have to have properties they already know. And then like half of the time they're like, okay, here's one.

You guys love this, right? it just goes down in flames. And you're like, well, then why do you keep pushing this? Like, just tell a better story and focus on that. And I don't know, maybe pay some writers to tell a better story. They're so complaining.

Anyway, obviously we have solved all the problems with the internet and the industry as a whole over these last two episodes. As experts. So, We're basically we're basically like those idiots on CNN, you know, who just like we're official appreciators who have a lot of ideas. I don't claim to know anything, but I talk about stuff a lot. It doesn't keep me from talking about it.

Just because I don't know about it doesn't keep me from talking about it. I don't claim to be an expert on anything. In fact, kind of the opposite. I keep talking and that's all that matters. Right.

Oh, man. Brian, I feel like we talked about the entire universe. I feel like this was a total meltdown compared no subject was left unturned. This is what we do when we get together so this is why I like doing these because we really just dig in and get nowhere and we dig. In some more right We double down on not knowing what we're talking about.

We double down on not knowing anything, but we talk about it a lot. We spend hours and hours talking around, you know, our belly buttons about, you know, what did you think about, you know, it's just, it's, it's, it's always a good time. We are ridiculous. I agree. There's nothing wrong with indulging in ridiculousness for several hours.

That's what brought us to the movies as a fan. So we can certainly do our own bastardized version of it on here. That's right. That's right. It's a good, it's a good extension of just being distracted by nonsense.

You know, even if we are nonsense. Right. Right. Self-generated nonsense. Thank you for joining me on this journey of nonsense.

Yeah, no problem, dude. No problem. It was great. It was a lot of fun. Well, I guess we should leave it at that before we get off on another tangent.

It's nap 07. Time to wrap it up. The old men have complained about stuff and now they got to take a nap. So we will leave you with that. Thank you as well for joining us for this rambling.

Otherwise, I don't know what does it. We will return next time. Same geek feed. Thanks for listening. Old man, look at my life I'm a lot like you were Old man, look at my life.

I'm a lot like you were Old man, look. At my life 24 and there's so much more. Live alone in a paradise that makes me. Think of children. Love not at such a cost.

Give me things that won't get lost. Like a coin that won't get tossed rolling home to you. Old man, take a look at my life. I'm in love like you. I need someone to love me.

The whole day through. I want to look in my eyes and you can tell it's true. I've been first and last Look at how the time goes past But I'm all alone at last Rolling home to you Old man, take. A look at my life. I'm a lot like you.

I need someone to love me the whole day through. I want to look in the eyes. And you can. Tell it's true. Old man, look at my life.

I'm a lot like you. Old man, look at my life. I'm a lot like you. Hold on one second. I think you're unstable.

Oh, I'm unf. Obviously you're unstable. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios, with opening music performed by The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com. Talk hard!

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