The Zen of Harry Dean Stanton Fest

My name is Alex Cox, and you're listening to Movie Meltdown. It's showtime. The following feature has been rated R by the Motion Picture Association of America. It is intended for mature audiences and parental discretion is advised. Our nuclear reactor pumping out one million kilowatts of power.

There are more than 20 vital bodily fluids, and I am proud to say that I have tasted every one of them. What's up, and welcome to Movie Meltdown. I'm Brian. I'm Lucy. And we're coming to you live via digital recording from Fred's house?

Wait a minute. This is the Harry Dean Stanton Festival special and, well, okay, we're going to get to that. We will very soon be coming to you live via digital recording from Harry Dean Stanton Fest. But for now, we were trying to do wrap-ups and get together and you have a lot of stuff going on on that weekend. So we were like, how about we just plan ahead and we'll sit down and we'll have a nice discussion.

And in a way, this is better because this gives you a chance to sort of reflect on the whole festival. As opposed to when you're usually knee deep in it and you're like, I don't know, I'm doing six things right now while we're talking. So this gives you a chance to get a little distance afterwards and be like, all right, what did happen that weekend? Right. I've had a whole week to process.

So. How's it going? It's going great. I ran away, which is what I always do after the festival. I realized that if I stay in Lexington, I immediately, my brain processes stress in a very unusual way where I don't have any anxiety or issues before the festival.

But after the festival, I have a week of anxiety dreams. Interesting. I would think that would go the other way. Like the week before you'd be super stressed out. And then like maybe you'd find a calm in the middle of it because you don't have time to worry.

And then afterward, you'd be like, whew, done with that bullshit. And by bullshit, you mean delightful experience that brings joy to many. All of the stress and juggling that you do for months beforehand, I'm sure, that all culminates in one weekend and would make most people keel over. But you power through it, and I'm impressed every time. Well, that's very kind, but here's the secret that I figured out.

And I think I've touched on this last year, but I've had a whole other year to process that, which is that you can't stress about Harry Dean Stanton Fest because that's not the spirit of Harry Dean Stanton Fest. It's what I would imagine Lebowski Fest to be. Like, the dude is the dude. The dude abides. Like, you just have to let Harry Dean Stanton Fest come at you.

This year I was getting so– I mean, I was worried about Like, we were actually, okay, full disclosure, last year was going to be the last year of the festival. I think we even kind of discussed that at the festival. Yeah, right. And then Alison Anders was like, no, no, no, I'm coming back next year. And Billy Swan was like, no, no, no, I'm coming back next year.

And everybody was like, we have to do this. And there was this moment watching Billy Swan. He wrote a song for Harry and he played the song for Harry. And he cried and we all cried. And I was like in tears.

I was like, as God is my witness, as long as there's one sweet old fellow that has a story to tell about Harry Dean, we're going to keep this thing going. And then both of them were going to come. And then sadly, both of them had to cancel for very legitimate, valid reasons. And so then we found ourselves without any guests. And we had a ton of guests.

We had another guest that also pulled out. And then we had no guests. And so I was losing my mind. And I was contacting everybody. This is what I'm saying.

Craziness. Months beforehand. Yes. Yes. Well, weeks beforehand.

Even worse when it gets down to the wire. And so then I got to a place where I was just like, wait, what are you doing? Absolutely not. This is not what Harry would want. Harry didn't stress about anything.

This is not the embodiment of who he is. And we are supposed to be representing him. So I said, okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to put one more ask into the world. And Sean Young, for a variety of reasons, had popped up into my consciousness.

I said, I'm going to reach out to Sean Young. If she says yes, amazing. If she says no, we just go through with the festival without a guest. And this is our last year. And I sent an email to what I thought was her agent.

And then I just got an email, a personal email response back that said, hey, that sounds super fun. Let me see if I can make it happen. And it did. So law of attraction. Put it out there.

Let it go. Let it come back to you. And that's the way of Harry Dean Stanton. It'll bounce around for a while and hopefully come back to where you're at. Yeah.

And this, I think, for me personally, wound up being one of my favorite festivals. I loved our guests. We had so much fun. Yeah. She was pretty amazing.

Just in my window of viewing and watching her and not knowing what to expect going in. Because, again, she has stories built up around her. Right. Many of which she is fully aware that she created herself. And so, yeah, I didn't really know what to expect coming in.

And then once we got to that Q & A, I was just like, this is very different than I expected and like kind of amazing. And I'm like even more interested in her as a person now. So it's yeah, she was she was. Pretty phenomenal. She's fascinating and she's brilliant.

She's so smart. She's so funny. She's so grounded. She's so cool. She's just fun to be around.

And you realize what all those stories were. And those stories were her just not being willing to play the game. And when women in Hollywood refused to play the game in the 80s and 90s. Or now. Or fair.

Let's be real. But especially then. Especially. I mean, it was an especially challenging time. And so, I mean, the height of her career, it just really all got taken away from her.

Yeah. And she never stopped being beautiful or talented or incredible in every way. She just got in trouble for not being willing to play the game. For being herself, which is fine, except when you're in the middle of show business stuff. And the business aspect makes you change.

What does even that mean? Like people reference the Catwoman stuff like that is I find it charming. I honestly like don't think it's that crazy. I mean, she did it with a sense of humor. Yeah.

Think how many other people got the job they wanted because they took a leap like that. this one just sort of backfired on her and like why i don't know because. There was a powerful man in hollywood that was also that was also i mean had personal reasons that he was going after her and those two things combined um were really i mean and now of course she's rebounded she's continuing to have a career she's continuing to work but i mean she did that that faded her star. Yeah i mean it changed things a lot i'm sure for her but Still stellar performances. I have watched a lot of her stuff in weeks leading up to this and stuff that I had seen a few that I hadn't. And yeah, I was like, she, she was like at that pinnacle.

Like a lot of what I watched was in that like 10 years or so where she like just kind of hit. And I was like, she was kind of like top of the list for female stars in Hollywood. Like if you were casting somebody, she was right there. She was one of the top. So.

That's an impressive feat all its own. Even if, you know, most people never get to that period, let alone to get there and then by whatever circumstances, you know, not, I mean, usually nobody stays there. I mean, you're lucky if you ride that for 10 years, if you're one of the biggest stars in the world. So the fact that you ever get to that point is pretty impressive. Fair.

Yeah. And shows how talented she is. Yeah, I love what on her Instagram it says, and I'm going to not quote it directly, and my apologies to Sean Young, but it's something along the lines of a happy person who used to be a famous actress in the 80s. And I was like, right on. That's how it should be.

Certainly the first half of that. And if you want to have the last one be a thing, you know, with most people, it's like, you know, this was my job. It's not always my job. That's true with a lot of these people that you see that are, Even working actors, it's like a lot of them have a legit job and they go to it every day and then every once in a while they're like, oh yeah, and I also do this because you can't afford to live like this now. Aside from the business going on right now.

Right. Under regular circumstances before that happened, you couldn't afford to live, which is why the circumstances have turned out like they have. So that was an extra little snag for you as well. It's like suddenly that kicked in almost during the weekend and you're like, oh, okay, how much does that change everything? And I just messaged her and said, hey, we understand.

What do you think? And I think it worked out because she's there to talk about Harry. She's there to talk about another actor. She's not there to promote anything. She's certainly not there to promote Young Doctors in Love.

She should be because it's a magnificent film. I have to say that movie, and this just goes to show how important the communal cinematic experience is. I watched that movie on my couch and I was like, well, you know, we're going to show it and it's fine. And there's some things that I enjoy about it. Your message beforehand kind of put it in perspective because you really did seem almost uncomfortable showing the movie that you were showing.

But the audience responded in such a way that, I mean, people were laughing uproariously to the point where she was just like, wait, how was this not this big of a success in 1981? How is it aging better? Yeah. You would think, really. Well, and that's the thing.

It's like I had seen it, you know, just on cable growing up. Like it was one of those go-to kind of comedies at the time. And then I don't think I've seen it. I think I kind of remembered somebody. Truthfully, I forgot the main male lead was Michael McKean.

He's kind of forgettable. Well, I remembered him being in there, but I didn't really remember him being the male lead. I couldn't have placed the male lead if you asked me. Oh, hilarious. But I remembered like the infamous urine scene.

I remember that happening. I remember someone doing that, did not remember it was him at all. I was like, oh, this is weird having like a fractured version of it that I'm like, I remember everything about this scene, except that blind spot of a guy in the middle, no offense to Michael McKean, like who is amazing in so many other things, but he is obviously the most boring character in this movie, which by design, he is the most boring character. So yeah, it was interesting rewatching it. And again, for 80s comedies? you could be looking at a lot worse stuff.

So there were things that I was like, ah, yeah, yeah, that was certainly a thing that happened in 80s movies. But there was many things that I was surprised how well it kind of played out. And that's what I said in my remarks beforehand. I mean, there was some really interestingly progressive elements to the film. There was a whole subplot with Hector Elizondo that could have been played very insensitively for laughs and was played and it came from such a true and sincere place In his heart, bless that man.

I mean, it is such a sincere performance that it's really quite touching. I was surprised it did what it did. Because again, that part sort of fell away with a lot of the other weird details in that movie. But I was just like, as soon as the... I mean, that...

That situation, we won't spoil it for you guys that for some reason you haven't seen this movie. I don't know what you're thinking. Run out and find it now. Go to a rental store. Right.

Go get a VHS copy. And rent a copy of it on VHS. But yeah, it's like it kicks in pretty early in the movie. And I'm like, okay. And then I'm like, I think I see why this could be problematic.

And then as it plays out, I'm like, they're not doing what I would expect in 1981. Right. And then as it went on, I'm like, I also was like, okay, so they're going to lean into this. No. Huh.

So it's like, it's so interesting that they don't really go down. Like you would expect them to go all the way one direction or all the way the other. And they kind of find this weird in between that's like, again, sort of touching and sort of like a nice balance that is shocking for 1981 comedy. Truly. Yeah.

I was amazed at how that went. And how do you not love Hector Elizondo? Oh, so good. I can't say his name anymore. At this point.

And he was in every Gary Marshall movie, right? Well, that's what I was going to say. He didn't even get the credit because it's like the first movie he shows up in. But eventually he became, and as always, he got his own goofy little end credit every time because he was the go-to. watch those later movies of Gary Marshall and he's just like and here he is again Hector's back don't worry so I love that yeah it was funny that he became sort of his his go-to it's his Clint Howard he's like I'm gonna work him in here somewhere don't you worry I'll find a spot for him. Well yeah if you can be paid to hang out with your buddies on a set why not.

He does seem pretty awesome so I would hang out with him in 1981 today whenever you know it's he seems pretty awesome. So Yeah, he would be a good future character fest actor. We can get to that. Oh, yes. I'm assuming you'll want to tell people about that.

But you also had some other stuff before that. Like I said, this gives you a chance to sort of go into the whole festival. I was really upset that I couldn't be there for opening night. I love the idea, so I guess tell people about your opening kickoff to the festival. Sure.

We were inspired by a Cinespia program at the Hollywood Forever Cemetery in Los Angeles, which has been going on for, golly, I mean, decades at this point. I think it started when I lived there in the early aughts, as I recall. And because there's so many people buried in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery, they started doing screenings there and tying them into the stars of a stars film with the star and, and their intern state. Um, so we decided to do one, um, at the, uh, at the bluegrass Memorial gardens. And I was a little nervous at first that, Harry's family maybe wouldn't be excited about the idea.

I can see some people having that. They take it the wrong way. Yeah. Well, I wasn't sure if it was like a little macabre. It was like slightly morbid.

That's what I would think a lot. Again, certain people. I always love the idea, but I'm also kind of creepy. So it's fine. So I reached out to the family to get permission before I reached out to the cemetery.

Okay. And they loved the idea. They were so excited about it. And then I reached out to the cemetery, and we had a great cheerleader there who got it immediately and just sent it up the flagpole. And it was actually really cute because he started telling us.

He was like, yeah, we have a cemetery conference. They chat with the other cemetery folks in other markets. Cemetery festivals. No, but he was like, everybody in Louisville is so jealous that we get to do this in Lexington. I believe it.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think it was ultimately good for everybody. I was a little nervous because we played Lucky and I forgot and I always forget. No, I didn't forget with Young Doctors in Love, but that it's a little, there's some language and it's a little raunchy at the beginning.

It's a very sweet movie. And I just, that's always the takeaway for me is the sweetness, but I forget that there is. So when that started, I was like, oh no, are they going to invite us back? That's a lot of fucks. That's so many fucks in a row.

But then, sure enough. I mean, it's not like there's kids there. It's mostly old people. And dead people. That are buried, you know.

They're well old when they get buried, most of the time. They've heard those words. But it was fun, and it worked out great, and people got to pay their respects to Harry. And like I was saying to you earlier, I mean, it's wild that his grave is next to literally a football field-sized open space that feels like it was just made to have outdoor movies. When did they plan that, I guess?

After? Or is it something he had planned years before and had that. Spot no no no no they didn't have the spot at all in fact there was a lot of sort of discussion as to where he would be buried and they wound up he had a favorite niece and so they put him near the favorite niece and it was just at the at the exterior of the family plot and i guess the cemetery itself has a plan where they're not going to be populating that field for the next 50 years so for the next 50 years it's. Just going to be a field It's just for movie showings. It's just for movies.

The way Harry would like it to be. And it's funny because a friend that night told me that I hadn't been aware of this fact, but across the street. So Harry's buried across from the Kroger and the Goodwill. And apparently in that little parcel of land used to be a drive-in theater. So people who went to that drive-in, this was very evocative.

How far back are we talking? I mean, this is a person of my generation, so this would have been the 80s. Yeah, okay, that's not bad. I was thinking, like, way far back, but, you know, even the 80s, that's pretty awesome. Yeah, and he was saying that, like, when they would fly in, when they would fly home, like, I guess their house was, like, behind the drive-in, so that was, like, their reference point.

They would see the screen. I can see my house from here. Exactly. So we provided that for, yeah, one night. Maybe at that drive-in they showed Young Doctors.

Probably. And it all came full circle. It all comes full circle. But, yeah, so it was a really great event, and we loved that. And then the next day, I know you spoke to Susan Compo.

You can get to that as well. Yeah. I'll let you give her a little intro, and then maybe we'll. Go talk to her. Yeah, she wrote the book on Warren Oates, and it's phenomenal, and she's phenomenal.

And she happened to be in town because she's researching a program– She's researching a book about Sam Shepard that she's been working on and will be working on for. Quite some time. She mentioned that. Yeah. And I mentioned Paris, Texas.

And so all of her books seem to have a Kentucky tie-in. I'm sure she mentioned the Walter Tevis book as well. So she's kind of adopted Kentuckian now. And so we said, sure, we should do a program of War Notes films around this. And at the time, I didn't know Sean Young was going to be here.

And even when I knew Sean Young was going to be here. I didn't immediately put the pieces in place that, oh, wow, we're celebrating three people who were born in Kentucky, all of whom were in movies with each other. I mean, it's wild that two of her earliest films, she did Stripes with Warren Oates and then Young Doctors in Love with Harry Dean. That is interesting because we don't have that many people in general from this area, you know, compared to the entirety of the country. So the fact that as soon, especially for John Young, who just started, to immediately work with all these people from my general area, like that is a little weird, I was thinking.

And in the area where she grew up, she was talking about that, working at Fort Knox, where her dad had been stationed because he lied about his age and wound up enlisting at the age of 15. Back when you used to do that sort of thing. Right? It just seemed to happen a lot, it seems like. Yeah, and so she was spending time with her cousins because they were filming up the street from her cousin.

I mean, it's just wild. That's crazy. Well, then let's go talk with her right now. Sitting here bending notes all the hipsters look like war notes can't remember what i was on but for a couple bucks i'll play you a song. I'm Susan Comfo, I'm the author of Worn Oats of Wildlife and a couple of other books.

And you are here with Harry Dean Stanton Fest That's right You've got an extra tie-in for the Worn Oats part I guess before we get to that, I usually start at the beginning and kind of get a feel for people when they're up and coming and kind of what they were interested in when they were younger So, if you believe things on the internet, which I don't, were you from California originally? I was actually born in New York City, and that's what actually in a weird way led me to the Worn Oats Project. But I grew up in Orange County, California. And then what I've seen, you know, you eventually kind of get to the character actors and all that, but you seem like you had a lot of interest in music early on.

Oh, definitely. I started, yeah, as a music writer. I did a fanzine in the punk days in 1977 called Blank Generation, and The Pause was meant to be the title, and Very few people knew how to do. Yeah. Here's Susan.

She's from, you know, dead air. Nobody knows how. To work with that. Well, actually, Rodney Bingheimer. He was one of the few people who got it.

So, yeah, quintessential Los Angeles personality. Yeah. So, yeah, that was my first thing. So what were you, were you involved in music as far as playing it originally or just drawn to it as a fan? Just drawn to it as a fan.

Yeah. I mean, I was, I always loved music growing up, like Crosby, Stills and Nash and that sort of thing. Then Bowie came along, huge Bowie fan. Then punk, and then goth, and then shoegazing, happy Mondays, and then I thought, I think I'm too old for this. There's still a lot of crazy stuff out there.

That's very true. Now it's just, it's so fractured. Like, everybody does their own thing, and you just have to... happen upon it most of the. Time i know it's fascinating a. Handful of people that still get pushed from the industry but everybody else is just here you're on your own go make your.

Music i know how hard yeah yeah i mean. It's free you just don't make money so it's very different than. I think that's yeah that's unfortunate yeah because you can't sustain it it's yeah yeah it's it's much the same with. Writing everybody continue working their day job, even when you're in a successful band, more than likely. When my first book, which was a novel, got accepted, I told everyone at my job, this is it.

I'm quitting my job. I'll never work again. Everybody looked at me like, huh, of course I was working again within three months. I've never stopped working another job. No surprise there.

Never stopped working a side job. Never. That's crazy. But I feel like everybody, even people with What used to be normal, legitimate jobs are the side hustle term didn't come out of nowhere. Right.

And even authors who are doing really well have told me that you have to at least teach. Yeah. You can't just write. That does give you an option. Even at the really highest level of people I've met at parties and whatnot, I'm like, really?

You know? But always, yeah. So how did you realize, you know, once you were just a fan of music that I also want to write about it and then that I can write about it? I always wrote since I was little, little. I had a, You know, kind of not troubled childhood, but my parents died quite young.

So I had to fix that somehow. So I started writing. I was constantly writing. I can't remember a time in my life when I didn't write. And were people responsive to it early or you just kept doing it and didn't care?

Teachers were. Yeah. Yeah. And so very, very encouraged and, you know, all kinds of stuff. So, yeah.

So then I started writing about music and, you know, got kind of somewhere with it. I mean, I got to the point where I sent a review of a Bowie album to Cream. And I got a letter back saying, you know, Lester Banks wants to talk to you. So I was in my little childhood room with my rotary dial, and I kept dialing the number, and I couldn't do it. So I think my students at SC, because I taught at USC in Los Angeles, said, you know, you're like the anti-Cameron Crowe for doing that, for not being able to do it.

Yeah, but I think my life would have been different if I weren't too scared. Yeah. Well, who knows, really. Yeah, you never know. I mean, one thing leads to another and sometimes you think it's for a reason that you end up where you are.

Exactly. You can never tell. Exactly. Well, then getting into it, it's like you do a lot of straightforward reviewing and stuff about specific artists, but then you also cross over into fiction. So is it something that you specifically wanted to break free from that and just sort of focus on your own stuff?

Or was it harder to do because you didn't have somebody's, you know, when you're still following a person's story, it's already kind of preset for you. I did fiction and I think actually poetry was my first love, but I thought I'll really start. For sure I'll start. There is no successful poet. So I changed my major from, you know, poetry to fiction.

And I think my, my thesis at USC was my first book, became my first book. So, well, thanks to teachers like Hubert Selby, John Reggie. I mean, I had big help along the way. Um, So that was my first love. And I did three books that were nicely reviewed, but just didn't sell anything.

Despite, you know, reviews by, not very nice review by Brady Stinellas, but, you know, people like that. You got them. Front page LA Times stuff where, you know, being called vapid. You're like, thanks. That's what I was going for.

You don't understand. People still called it and. Said, congratulations, that's so cool. And I thought. I mean, that's a bonus as people probably don't know what that means.

No, they don't. Or they just did. I'm sorry, but the head of my department called and said, that's really great, Susan. And I thought, well, that's what we were going for. Yeah.

But again, it didn't, it didn't make a blind bit of difference. Yeah. I mean, that is one of those you wonder, like, at least when it's about a specific well-known person, like, it's got an audience already. Of some kind, yeah. But just starting from nothing and, like, how does it find people?

Much like music now, it's like, how do you find people? Right, right. How do they know to come find your book? Right, right. Yeah, it's an ordeal.

Yeah. But then, yeah, getting into, like, the different artists and doing more of a biography type of thing. So was that more. I always wanted to write a biography. I'd read Patricia Bosworth, Montgomery cliff biography.

And I thought, you know, people kept saying that's the gold standard. I think I can do better than that. Well, I'm not sure that I could, but I really wanted to try. Yeah. And then I was, you know, in London with a friend cause I worked, I lived there 10 years and was working.

And I thought, I said to my friend over lunch, what, I just don't know who to write a biography about. You said, why don't you write about your favorite actor? And I thought, Oh, my favorite actor's war notes. I don't think there is a book. And, Lo and behold, there wasn't.

So I tried everywhere, got pretty much nowhere. And then I was actually reading a book from University Press of Indiana on Carol Lombard, because she was native Indianan. I thought, well, let me try Kentucky. Just the fact that your favorite actor was worn out is different than a lot of people. I guess that's true.

That is sort of his thing, really. It's like everybody knows. Well, if you're... of an age to have watched his films. It's like, you're like, I know that guy. And then there's other people that are big fans of his, but he's, he never really broke through to being leading man, which is not, you know, not really what some actors are going for.

So that's what we've kind of found, you know, looking at this, you know, Harry Dean Stanton Fest over the years, it's like some people are just working actors and they like it that way. And they're focused on what they're doing and not so much about stardom and, you know, being a well beloved actor. Right. I think he would have, He would like to have crept through the big stardom, but I don't think he was that driven in that way. Yeah.

He liked, yeah, roles, like working. Well, and we'll definitely get to him, but I guess I also kind of wonder looking at moving into doing biographies, like what do you think, because you were even looking at one that you liked, it's like you wanted to do something better than that. What do you think you were doing that was different from, than, you know, previous writing and then from what other, you know, biographers did. Even though it was fiction, it was all about me, you know, even though it was thin and I was so anxious to get out of myself. I guess.

Yeah. I was so anxious to be able to get away from myself. Yeah. And it, I, I have, but I noticed that you still find time to write about what you like. So for instance, I love going on road trips.

If Warren went on a few road trips, he went on a million in my book just because I love writing about it. So, you know, I, what little i've done writing that became the only thing like mine was fanzine and it was only things i cared and then like there were a few times i was asked to do other stuff and i didn't i was like well this is work now yeah i. Don't want to do work like and it's hard to make it it's not. Fun yeah so it's like when you write about stuff you love it's not such a you know it's not work anymore it's kind of fun still it's work in a sense but it's still not yeah it's not like the The nine to five it becomes when you, like, get on at some paper and you're forced to write about whatever comes up that week.

Yeah. It's a strange thing to do, though, because biography, you really don't have a life. Yeah. It's really gone. Yeah.

For four years. I mean, your friends know it. Like, oh, no, here she comes. She's going to talk about that, you know? She'll end up in some little town in Kentucky somewhere.

Yeah. Well, midway the other day. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, it's kind of... I've gone to a party one time that was just for biographers, and I thought...

Well, I wonder if people will talk about themselves, you know, as we do at parties. They didn't, but everybody talked about their subject. That becomes you. Yeah, it was the funniest thing. So you'd like wander from person to person to talk about their subject.

You know, I'm no different. Educational. I mean, you learn a lot of stuff. It was actually more fun, you know, rather than, and then I, you know. I guess because most people probably aren't that interesting.

Yeah. when you pick these people that warrant their own biography, they're probably pretty interesting. Yeah, they've done something to get there. Yeah. So along those lines, I guess once we get into that, what... When you're knee deep in Warren Oates trivia, like what were some of the stranger and more interesting things you found out about him as you dug into it?

Well, that he loved road trips, that he was really interested in Zen Buddhism. I didn't know that. I didn't know that he had a real Zen approach. Again, when you see some of his films, you wouldn't necessarily think that. And I think that people have asked him certain things like, how did you do the Alfredo Garcia grave robbing scene?

Well, there's many reasons or ways, but he said, I use my Zen, you know. That's interesting. Well, he used to send us some mushrooms, but you know. That's also not a shock. Yeah, a fair few other additions.

But that and that he was so loved. I never saw people drop anything, everything to talk about Warren. And this was just people who knew him personally or people that worked with him or everyone. Everyone, everyone, everyone. I don't think anyone, well, Peter Fonda was a little bit.

He wanted to, but then he kept canceling, and I'm not really sure what was going on there. We hear weird stories about him. Yeah. He had a rough growing up, too. He did, too.

He did, too. He came from a strange family and was thrown into stardom before he knew what to do with it. So, yeah. A good friend to warn, I would have loved to have his input, but not after being stood up twice, you know? No.

Like, no, not doing it again. Yeah. Yeah. Well, then, I guess, of crossovers there, I mean, he and Harry Dean Stanton worked together several times. Right.

And then, so I guess, what was the connection between the two of them that you found? Well, certainly Kentucky. Yeah. And just a love of a craft, and actually a real competition, since they were up for a lot of the same roles, and in a way occupied a similar kind of character. Yeah.

I mean, Harry Dean always read older, you know? It's like, even when he was young, he felt like... He did read older, and he was. I think four years older. Yeah.

But still, four years is nothing compared to on screen. He could play 20 years older probably easy from the time he was 30. He just always came off so much older than he actually was. You're right. I think they both had droll senses of humor, both interested in deep conversation, drinking, pop, whatever else was going on.

None of that surprises me. Running around with women, you know. Interesting the... zen part of it too, because the more you get into Harry Dean, the more like he has this philosophy and his is almost nihilism at some points. I mean, he gets so into like nothing matters, but at the same time, I always, I always found fault with that. I'm like, but a man who put together such an amazing career and was so beloved by other people.

And like, I feel like, I don't know. I don't see how that works. Like, right. He just seemed like he had so much pride in what he did that I'm like, well, obviously your work matters and the people you love matter. So I don't know.

I think that became more of a thing he liked to throw out there. I always sort of questioned it because I think he's so impressive as who he was. Oh, sure. There's an F. Scott Fitzgerald saying that I think I have as one of my Facebook, whatever these things is.

And he said, few things matter and nothing matters very much. And when you think someone like, Scott Fitzgerald, I think everything matters. You know, evidence from his work and his life. I don't think few things matter to him. Meticulous.

Yeah, everything matters. Everything. Yeah, yeah. Well, and then I guess, you know, from both Warren and Harry Dean Stanton, they're, again, very different in the style of acting and the projects that they took on. So what do you think was so different about those type of actors and those men in particular, I suppose?

Well, I grew up in it. Well, let's see. It's very different because Harry Dean came out west and trained in the Presidium Playhouse and came up that route. Yeah. Warren went to New York and did early TV, not really much Broadway, but a little bit.

Yeah. And then came west when TV started getting hot. And Harry Dean was more trained theatrically. Yeah. But they both deeply cared about their craft, even though they didn't. well i don't know necessarily speak about acting yeah how what acting called for but.

But they're both very committed to that level. Yes and they both studied yeah it was not an accident. They don't just show up like you know as much as again certainly harry dean always came off like you know he could just kind of roll in but he you know if you if you find out more about him he would prepare and he would work and like he would put so much of himself into that role and Warren I'm sure it was the same way. Right. But they're also very different from you know especially at that time you know so many of the big movies came from like the 70s.

Right. So these type of you know real men, as they used to throw around that term, like, they kind of come across as, like, they're not your fancy Hollywood star. Like, they really do seem like somebody that, you know, you'd probably work with. If they weren't, you know, a movie star, they would be working at a job with you. Yeah, and they didn't have glamour Hollywood lives.

Yeah. They were pretty down-to-earth as people, but also sort of brought that to the screen. Yeah, yeah. Realism. Yeah.

Well, then, I don't know. Were there any, like, specific stories about Warren Oates that were something to throw out there for people that ended up in the book? Well, I mean, he had a thing called the Roach Coach, which was his traveling RV for obvious names. And they would take this thing everywhere. They'd take it out to Joshua Tree to look for UFOs.

They'd drive to locations with this. Warren and his friend Bob Watkins would Drive to Montana a lot to Livingston where they had their little Montana mafia, you know, Hollywood on the Yellowstone. And would do a thing called the cowboy change, which they would change seats while the van was in motion. That sounds safe. Yeah, sounds safe.

I'm sure they weren't on anything either. Oh, no, not at all. No substances were involved. Yeah, loads and loads of fun, you know, it seems like doing that. Definitely.

Yeah. Well, I mean, we've definitely got the book we can tell people about, but do you want to discuss anything else? I mean, you mentioned you're working on other stuff. You're free to throw that out there. Yeah, well, I did a book on the making of The Man Who Fell to Earth, which was interesting.

So Bowie Project. Yeah, so talk to Nick Rogue briefly. He was end of his life, not doing so well. And pretty much everyone involved with the film except Bowie, because I thought I might get him, but then alas, you know. It's an elusive character.

Interesting to do the life of a film because that book was written by Walter Tavis, a Kentuckian, and set in Kentucky, set to be filmed in Kentucky, but then moved to New Mexico because they had a freer... Pricing. That's usually what does it. Oh, absolutely. And they could have an all-British crew.

Yeah. But try to imagine the film without the landscape of New Mexico. Yeah. sometimes again sometimes things happen for a reason. Yeah it really did so that was fun to do and then now I'm working on a project about I'm not the only one but Sam Shepard so yeah yet another Sam Shepard book and it's. It's crossover he yeah his his contribution to Paris Texas is phenomenal so very true yeah he's he's got a nice little connection to Harry Dean and of.

Course that yeah and the connection to Kentucky yeah yeah yeah and that's that's it's it's fun but it's bittersweet yeah this one it's a little bit harder. He at least had a good run and got to work on so many different projects over the years. He really did. Oddly, I find a lot of. It worked with Graham Clifford who edited The Man Who Fell to Earth and also directed Francis, so brought Sam and Jessica together.

Anyway, he said that Sam reminded him a lot of David Bowie. It's a funny sort of way they have a lot in common. It's interesting. Like fear of flying, change names... getting their teeth fixed and actually using their illnesses at the end of life to create work. Yeah.

And there's, there's more than that. And it's kind of a strange thing to jump off and, but I'm doing it. I'm creative people. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. When you're super creative, even in totally different ways, I think there is like a weird Venn diagram somewhere. Exactly. Yeah. There's a crossover that like.

They were actually in the same place once. And I wish they could have. It seems like they would have hit it off. I think they would have, they would have had things in common regardless. Cause, Bowie went to see Sam play A Lie of the Mind in New York.

And his sister told me they were both standing, leaning against the wall in the lobby, not talking to anybody. And she said, I really should go up to one and say, hey, let me introduce you to my brother. It would be fun to know what they were talking about. But again, there's a period or a time where Sam meets Charles Bukowski at the racetrack. And I think, oh, I'd love to know what they're talking about.

I horses yeah it's probably not again not. The state of the universe they're talking about who's you know they're not that's it. I think that's the that's the thing is instead of the reality of it you you take that moment and you write a story about it so you can create a meeting of them yeah that would be way more interesting wouldn't that. Be great yeah and yeah like i said they definitely had the high cheap bones market covered you know yeah definitely kings of the high cheap bones. Definitely yeah Well, any of these books, I guess what's the best way for people to find them if they want to pick up a version?

Amazon or, you know, bookshop.org, which is much more independent bookstore friendly and, you know, gives back a bit more. But probably anywhere. Yeah. Except probably not too many bookstores. Yeah, they're hard to find.

We have a few. Oh, I was in one today. I was in Black Swan. I got some Shepard. I got some Shepard in there.

There's a handful still hanging on in my town, and I think Lexington's. Got oh really yeah i should go. I can yeah i can try to think of a few for that. Would be good that's something for maybe more shepherd definitely. Yeah but yeah so i guess go look for those and pick them up and thank you.

For talking okay well thanks for coming by. No problem thank you you're welcome. And you weren't in any scenes with Warren that I recall, but you said that you did get to know him. We were in some of the chase sequences. Remember when we're in Russia and he's on top of the EM-50 and then they like blow it up and I think his last line is, I'm getting.

Too old for this shit. So we were all hanging around at that time when we were in that area and that actual location was the Jim Bean distillery in Kentucky. And the funny thing, it was literally a block away from my first cousins. So for lunch break, I used to go up to my cousins, and then he'd let them come back down. And it was just funny being able to work in Louisville.

During the weekends, I would go see my grandparents who. Lived on 41st Street, near downtown Louisville. And it was... Yeah, it was just, and it was my actually first big budget Hollywood film. The only one I had done, I can't remember if I did.

Blade Runner first. I guess I must have. So, Stripes was my first big Hollywood film, then Blade Runner, then Young Doctors in Love. Yeah. That's quite a lineup.

It was. It opened very quickly, and I think people forget that I was actually pretty young when my star arose. And, yeah, I had a not a lot of experience. So I really had to learn quickly. And with the dance background, I was lucky to be able to move well.

I didn't have a lot of problems figuring out what. To do because I could look at other people. But getting comfortable talking, well, I personally can see that in this film. I'm pretty self-conscious. I can kind of pick it up and kind.

Of go like that voice. You know, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, where am I going to get that? I have no idea. It totally works for the character because you're from a rural community and you're kind of having.

Your eyes open to a bigger city. If you say so. I'll buy it. I'll take it. It's my story and I'm sticking with it.

This is Hunter Carson, and you're listening to me have a meltdown on Movie Meltdown. I guess, do we round it out with rounding out of the festival? Do we go to the closing night ceremonies? Sure. What would you like to know?

I don't know. I guess just give the rundown of what you did on that last day and how you kind of closed things out. Sure. So we had two films that we have never shown before, which is very exciting for us. One that I've been wanting to show for a very long time, which is one from the heart.

Frederick Forrest, who I think is one of the greatest character actors of all time, sadly passed away in June. And we had already planned to screen this. We obviously didn't want it to be a memorial screening, but that's what it wound up being. His friendship with Harry I find fascinating. I had the incredible privilege to have a phone chat with him one time Jamie James who I should also mention will be playing in Lexington as sort of a epilogue to Harry Dean Stanton Fest he was Harry's longtime guitar player and he was very tight with Fred Forrest and so he gave me his number and we got to chat for a little while and I learned things about Harry that I did not know that I have not read anywhere that I've heard no one else report for instance that he went and shot a scene for Apocalypse Now have we talked about this?

I don't think so. Harry was in Apocalypse Now, fully shot the scene, and I'm really embarrassed because I can't remember the name of the actor who wound up actually being in the movie in Harry's role. Martin Sheen. Oh, my God. That would be a very different movie.

What a movie that would be. Marlon Brando. Oh, what a crazy movie this is turning out to be. Lawrence Fitch. Young Harry Dean somehow CGI'd him before that technology existed.

But Frederick Forrest obviously played Chef, and he had flown out with Harry to be on the set, and then apparently, I guess, of all the many things that happened during the course of the filming of Apocalypse Now, one of the things was a bunch of lost footage due to a storm, and that footage was lost, and then I guess they said, you know, now that we have to reshoot this, maybe we'll just go in a completely different direction. Yeah. We don't even have that footage. Even if it didn't end up in the. Movie, the fact that we can't see it is just terrible.

Yeah, I hate that. Anytime that happens, which happens a lot in movie history, and yeah, it's always kind of painful. Yeah. Just as a movie geek. But I want to see it, even if it's not part of the movie.

But I had never heard that. And Fred wouldn't make it up. So I believe Fred. Well, and I believe everything went wrong with that movie. So I can't question that, oh, something destroyed this footage.

Any number of things could have destroyed. From the cast members to Storms. helicopters, take your pick. Like, who knows what could have gone wrong in the making. Of that film. And I can see it being something that Harry wouldn't talk about afterward, because I know he was sort of sensitive about that sort of thing.

He pretended to be utterly without ego, but he was not. I discussed that earlier as well. Okay, interesting. Well, I always have that, like... So complicated.

The claiming that, you know, nothing matters, but yet being so dedicated to his craft and so beloved by... everyone around him. And I'm like, all these things are obviously important. So it's such a weird balance with him, but. Well, it was very, and I think we've probably talked about this before too, but Sophie Huber's sort of theory on this and partly fiction was that he cared so much that he had to get to a place in his life where he tried to adopt this This veneer of not caring. So it didn't overwhelm him.

To sort of convince himself, but was probably not entirely successful. I didn't buy it. Yeah. Every time I watched something where he talked about it, I was like, different people, I might even buy this, but not from you. There's too much awesome, amazing stuff there and too much connecting with other human beings.

I'm like, I'm not buying it. Yeah, and I get it. And then we showed The Fourth War, which is a John Frankenheimer film from the early 90s. Oh, I do want to mention there's something very important that Young Doctors in Love and One from the Heart were both films just sort of close together. So they have one unifying Harry Dean characteristic, which is that for a brief time, Harry Dean had the most amazing early 80s permanent.

And. I was going to say, his hair in Young Doctors in Love is pretty epic. Yeah. Well. Watch One from the Heart.

It's got nothing on One from the Heart. So this is a shared universe. Yes. Sort of its own little Harry Dean has its own MCU. The unifying, yes.

Not that he isn't also in the MCU. Because he is. Because he is. But the Harry Dean universe is its own thing that's bigger than that. So, yeah.

So, and then The Fourth War, we actually had requests to screen that because recently Quentin Tarantino had discussed that film on his podcast and everybody was like, wait, what is this movie about? That's what most movies he talks about. It's fine. And it's actually, you know, it's not a good movie. I'm not going to pretend it is.

But Harry's great in it. I mean, he plays a military man and he is intense. Which is interesting because that's not how you see him most of the time. It's very off-brand. Opposite of him, yeah.

Very off-brand. And he also like has the sort of the framing device of the whole movie. He narrates it starting in the beginning and bookends it and then has this incredible scene in the middle that Quentin Tarantino talked about as just being the most absurd example of just pure exposition. He just, I mean, you don't have to watch the movie because the two minutes of him explaining what the movie is about is the movie. Just give us a Harry Dean super cut.

Yeah. It's like all the stuff that we need about Harry Dean and then we'll skip the rest of it. Yeah, yeah. But Tim Reed's great in it, so props to Tim Reed. Yeah.

But it's fine. Wait, there's a lot of movies. We've got to work through all of them. Yeah. Gary Dean cranked out a lot of stuff over the years.

And I will say I was resistant to that for a long time. I was like, well, there's some movies we just can't show. We can't show Young Doctors. We can't show Dream a Little Dream, but we did. And you did that.

That was also Saturday night. You had a packed Saturday. Saturday was wild. And that is because initially Dream a Little Dream was going to be the only Saturday night event. And then Sean Young said, I can only do Saturday.

So we were like, okay, we'll do all the things. So, and it worked out great. And people enjoy Dream a Little Dream. They enjoy. What is this word?

I mean, I like a Corey. Not necessarily both Corys. I'm favorable to one Cory, kind of annoyed with another Cory. Fair. I actually love this movie.

I think it's like a Corey arthouse movie, which is so weird. Why? I remember watching it. I think Cable was the only time. I skipped it at the theater because it seemed like Corey's gone wrong.

And then I remember seeing it and I'm going, what is going on with this movie? It was so designed to fail in a way that I find really fun. Um, and I think, uh, obviously Piper Laurie is always incredible. Like the cast, like you can't even think of it as like a Corey's movie. Cause it was like a Jason Robards, Piper Laurie movie.

Like anyway, I love this film. Um, We'll be seeing more of this is what it sounds like. We had some audio issues. We had some technical issues. And it was actually funny because we've never, I mean, things go pretty seamlessly with Harry Dean Stanifest.

Surprisingly over the years, yeah. I've always said that that's just because of the magic and the energy that surrounded Harry. And that night, everything was going wrong. And I was like, what the fuck is happening? It's Harry Dean Stanifest.

Everything's supposed to go right. And I was like, oh, I forgot the curse of the Corys. Is going to overwhelm the magic of Harry Dean. These two forces. Are diametrically opposed.

Yeah. So, so there it is. So we'll have to screen it another time or I don't know. Do we mess with, I don't know. We'll see.

I think, I think you can work with it. Yeah. But yeah, that was, that was the weekend. Awesome. So is there a good, before we get to the next phase, If people are interested in the next go-round, is there a good place for just Harry Dean or is it all becoming one big thing?

No. So we're going to keep– are you saying– Well, no. As far as just finding out information, just go to the website kind of thing. HarryDeanStanFest.org. Yes.

You can get all of your Harry Dean Fest information there. All right. So there's your plan for that. Yes. For when you're thinking this sounds super awesome.

You're right. And then you can start planning for next year. Yeah. And we already have the dates because we always do it around Harry's birthday. So 2024, it'll be July 12th through the 14th.

There you go. So mark your calendars. Start making your travel plans now. Which people do. They do.

The people I run into every year, both of which don't live either in my town or your town, and come into town for it. I mean, as this has gone on, you've developed your own little, like, not just fan base, but sort of family that, like, they're back every year. And now like, that's kind of amazing for anything, especially in your own town, but to travel to an entire different place just to be part of this is, I think that says a lot. Yeah. It's our family reunion.

Yeah. It's pretty amazing. So you should be part of that next time around. Yes, please. And then we know because of last year, you've got an offshoot kind of new thing, new compared to the Harry Dean that's been going on for a while.

So, Do you want to discuss, or at least give a basic... teaser for the sure the next and upcoming festival. So as inspired by harry dean stanton despite the fact that he did not like being called a character actor um sorry lead in paris texas damn you people well i think he always said like what what's the stupid like a character you're always a character but i think he didn't like. He was definitely a character in whichever way you want to phrase that but he's also yeah yeah bring an amazing character to what you do if you're. A good actor but we definitely want to we've Initially, we were thinking that we would end Harry Dean Stanfest at some point. Clearly, that's never going to happen.

It's going to go on as long as I have breath in my lungs. But we decided that we also want to honor living actors. And so we do a standalone character fest this year. It is going to be in November. Last year was in the summer right after Harry Dean Stanfest.

That was a terrible idea. Because you were trying to kill yourself. Yes, basically. But it didn't work. So now you're going to... have a reasonable way to deal with it yes and spread them out a little.

Bit yes so that's a that's a lexington film or a harry dean stanfest kentucky theater co-production um and so we'll all the events will be at the kentucky unlike harry dean stanfest where we obviously jump around and do a bunch of stuff yes sometimes literally yeah right from one thing to the next um but uh the first year we honored cy richardson who was the most amazing guest and again that oh my gosh he was incredible and that was another like weird everything comes back to kentucky moment because we had no idea when we invited him that his lovely wife theresa is from lexington and so her whole family came and that wound up being a family reunion for them and it was awesome. That was pretty fun i remember just standing there watching them just all these people and they were all just Not near as thrilled that he was there as like we were.

It was just they were having family reunions, talking to each other, just glad to be hanging out at the theater and like having a good time together. Yes. And they were so supportive of him. I talk about this all the time because they're a church going family and Cy and his wife are both people of faith. And so they went to church on Sunday morning.

And then the first afternoon screening we had was Alex Cox's Straight to Hell. Which I was sitting there for. It is not necessarily what you would think of to follow up your church ruins. Yes, but they were so supportive of Psy that they came and they watched it and they applauded appropriately. It's amazing in its own right, but that's kind of awesome for them.

Yes, Xander Berkley does play, well, no spoilers. It's amazing. It's not what you would expect if you've ever seen a movie. It's not like one of those. It is its own weird thing.

I remember the first time I watched it going, I love this. And what the hell is it? And I watched it again in the theater. I was like, yep, still crazy as hell. And yet I can't get enough of it.

It's so weird. And so terrific. And yeah, so I love that movie. Yeah. And it's another one that's a very good cinematic communal experience because, yeah, the reaction.

The reaction of what? Why is this like that? And I don't. Give me more. That's every moment of that movie.

But yeah, so we'll be having our second annual Character Fest at the Kentucky Theater in November. We have not announced who our guest is. Maybe we'll do that soon. I'm just glad to know at least the ballpark. I wasn't even sure when it was hitting.

So I'm like, all right, we'll at least try to narrow that down today. So now you can start planning that. You only have to wait till next year now. You can just start a couple months out. Start piecing your plan together.

Yep. That's how you'll kick off your holidays. You'll go to Character Fest. Exactly. And then you'll start Christmas shopping.

So, you know. Yeah, that's how you'll know from now on. It's Christmas shopping season after Character Fest. Everyone on your list gets, you know, swagged from Character Fest. Yes.

Okay, so is there a specific place for that or. No, we do. Because I know it goes through a lot of other people. So that's why I didn't know what's the best place to find it, if any. Well, if there are any web designers listening, because we do have a domain.

And I tried to resuscitate my already paltry design skills. And it didn't go great. It's a lot to deal with. There will be a characterfest.org. Not super active at the moment or existent at all.

I'm looking at mine earlier today, and I'm like, yeah, I need to fix that, too. And that. Like, there's stuff from so long ago that's still there that, like, I need to fix that. But it takes so much time. It's just.

Websites. It's a lot to deal with. But, yes. I get it. Yeah.

But yes, the Harry Dean Stanton Fest Facebook page. We have a Character Fest Instagram, so you can follow that. I think it's just called Character Fest. I'm not good at this part. Sorry.

If you don't find it, message me. I'll find it for you. Yeah, there you go. Perfect. And send it right to you.

So sooner or later, one way or another, we'll find what you need. Just let us know. All right. Well, thank you for recapping. Thank you.

And then throwing the heads up for the next thing that's coming. I appreciate you being part of the Harry Dean Stanfest family. I thank you for letting me come back every year. I asked you this year, I was like, do you want me to come? Because at this point, I don't assume anybody needs me anywhere.

So I'm like, every event now, I'm like, do you guys want. To do this? It's fine for me. You're part of the team. I appreciate that, but I don't assume anything.

So I'm glad to be part of the team. Thank you for joining us for this episode. overview of Harry Dean and celebration of everything that is Harry Dean. Otherwise that about does it. We will return next time. Same geek feed.

Thanks for listening. Hey, Hey, Hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey.

I think I'm gonna go You know I wanna live with you Wanna be a little wild You know it's me, you know it's true The time is right for us now. So come along with me, babe. Hey, hey, hey. I want to gently touch your home. I wanna touch your lego I want it to feel you close, oh I want it to feel you close, oh.

Under the stars tonight Under the pale blue moon, yeah And under the cool night breeze And into the cool night glow. Bye. Bye. They usually do, like, figures from history. But the problem with that is we learn from history that we don't learn from history.

That is true. But we learn from Harry Dean Stanley. that we do learn from Harry Dean Stanton. Yeah, that's a good point. This episode is a production of Movie Meltdown, produced and edited by The Oddity Studios, with the opening music performed by The Empires. For more on how to sponsor or support the show, email producer at moviemeltdown.com.

Talk hard! This program is a proud member of the Battleship Pretension Fleet.